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拒绝拿割地换和平!泽连斯基最新专访中摊牌:为什么我和特朗普在

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时间英文中文
0:00Could I just begin by asking how you are after the events of last week?我能不能先问一下你上周的事之后怎么样?
0:05How you reflect on what happened?你怎么思考发生了什么?
0:08Each week is not simple for us, for all our country and not only for me personally,对我们来说,对我们所有的国家来说,每个星期都不简单,不仅对我个人来说,
0:15for all the Ukrainians, so thank you so much.感谢所有的乌克兰人, 所以非常感谢你。
0:18Thanks to partners, our European partners,感谢伙伴们,我们的欧洲伙伴们,
0:22including UK, of course we were thankful for the support, the unity what Europe demonstrated.包括英国在内,我们当然感谢欧洲表现出的支持和团结。
0:28Last week was very important after some challenges and now we see that the support上星期在遇到一些挑战之后非常重要,现在我们看到,支持
0:35of the American side came back, not in all the directions, but it's on the way.美国方面回来,不是在所有方向,但它在路上。
0:41We hope so that it will work.我们希望它能够奏效。
0:43So personally, how you can be during the war?那么,个人,你怎么能 在战争期间?
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序号英文中文
1Could I just begin by asking how you are after the events of last week?我能不能先问一下你上周的事之后怎么样?
2How you reflect on what happened?你怎么思考发生了什么?
3Each week is not simple for us, for all our country and not only for me personally,对我们来说,对我们所有的国家来说,每个星期都不简单,不仅对我个人来说,
4for all the Ukrainians, so thank you so much.感谢所有的乌克兰人, 所以非常感谢你。
5Thanks to partners, our European partners,感谢伙伴们,我们的欧洲伙伴们,
6including UK, of course we were thankful for the support, the unity what Europe demonstrated.包括英国在内,我们当然感谢欧洲表现出的支持和团结。
7Last week was very important after some challenges and now we see that the support上星期在遇到一些挑战之后非常重要,现在我们看到,支持
8of the American side came back, not in all the directions, but it's on the way.美国方面回来,不是在所有方向,但它在路上。
9We hope so that it will work.我们希望它能够奏效。
10So personally, how you can be during the war?那么,个人,你怎么能 在战争期间?
11Is the relationship with the US back or does it feel rocky?与美国的关系是恢复了 还是感觉很不稳定?
12No, I mean it's not simple, because the US is a big country and they are strategic partners不,我的意思是不简单, 因为美国是一个大国, 他们是战略伙伴
13for all Europeans, including Ukraine of course, and we have different discussions ahead当然,对于包括乌克兰在内的所有欧洲人,我们还有不同的讨论
14and different views on very sensitive topics as security for Ukraine and the attitude to Russia关于乌克兰的安全和对俄罗斯的态度等非常敏感的议题的不同意见
15and personally to Putin as support of air defence, including Patriots connection like Starlink并亲自前往普京,作为空中防卫的支持,包括像Starlink这样的爱国者联系
16and a lot of different things.和很多不同的东西。
17So we have sometimes different views, but in any way所以有时我们有不同的看法 但无论如何
18we are thankful that we have bipartisan support, big support from American nation.我们感激我们得到两党的支持, 得到美国的支持。
19By the way, I'm very proud that we built strong relations between our country during these years of war.顺便说一句,我非常自豪的是,我们在这几年的战争中建立了我们国家之间的牢固关系.
20Do you feel supported by President Trump?你觉得得到川普总统的支持吗?
21Look, President Trump really wants to end this war and he always raises this topic川普总统真的想结束这场战争 他总是提出这个话题
22and of course we are on the same side when we speak about the terms of ending this war.当我们谈论结束这场战争的条件时,我们当然是站在同一一边的。
23Yes, we see different instruments because my philosophy is a little bit another.是的,我们看到不同的乐器 因为我的哲学是另一部分。
24My philosophy is that Putin is a deeply Soviet person and in his reality and in his mentality我的哲学是普京是一个深刻的苏联人 在他的现实和心态中
25and we understand it because we've all been born, not all, but my generation we've been born in Soviet Union我们理解它,因为我们都是出生的,不是所有, 但我的一代,我们出生在苏联
26in Ukraine at the period of USSR.苏联时期的乌克兰。
27So we understand this mentality.所以我们了解这种心态。
28That's why when Putin is sharing some, I don't know, some narratives and when he's lying we see it, feel it.这就是为什么当普京分享一些, 我不知道,一些叙事, 当他撒谎的时候,我们看到它,感受它。
29Yes, we understand this mentality, we understand because we are so many years neighbours.是的,我们理解这种心态,我们理解因为我们是这么多年的邻居。
30Yes, and that's why I think that we understand Russians more, how to say it, more clear than the United States.是的,这就是为什么我认为我们更了解俄罗斯人, 如何说,比美国更清楚。
31The United States from the point of the world security can share with Russians different topics and etc.从世界安全的角度,美国可以与俄罗斯人分享不同的话题等.
32But we understand the mentality of Putin and of Russians and Russian soldiers and their civilians但我们理解普京以及俄罗斯人和俄国士兵及其平民的心态
33when they are ready to do something and when they are really, really afraid of any kind of Putin messages当他们准备做点什么, 当他们真的,真的害怕 任何类型的普京信息
34because they understand that they will be in prison otherwise.因为他们知道 否则他们会在监狱里。
35So if they will not go and kill us, I mean the same format of sanctions will be from Putin to them.所以,如果他们不去杀我们,我指的是同样的制裁形式将从普京到他们。
36So this is where we have different views.这就是我们观点不同的地方。
37So that's why I think that in some topics, of course, the President supports it所以我认为在某些议题上 总统当然支持
38and in some topics, as I said, we see different views.正如我所说,在某些议题上,我们看到不同的观点。
39It can't be, can it, that President Trump wants to end this war, but it appears that he wants to end it川普总统想结束这场战争 但似乎他想结束这场战争
40whether that is at Ukraine's expense or not and it can't be at Ukraine's expense不论这是否以乌克兰为代价 也不可能以乌克兰为代价
41because it doesn't just affect Ukraine, it affects Europe and beyond.因为它不仅影响乌克兰, 也影响欧洲和其他地区。
42Of course, President Trump wants to end this war.当然,川普总统希望结束这场战争.
43I mean, first, he is speaking about it, yes, and spoke我的意思是,首先,他正在谈论它,是的,并说
44and of course, politically, he is interested in it, I'm sure.当然,在政治上,他很感兴趣
45And I really, I hope that his team, very honest when they invest to negotiations, yes, to this topic.我真的希望,他的团队, 当他们投入谈判时, 非常诚实,是的,对于这个话题。
46So we count on it.因此,我们指望它。
47Of course, I mean, this without hope, nobody can live.当然,我的意思是,没有希望,没有人能活着。
48But of course, the price is very high for Ukraine because if the price to negotiate just and pay for this当然,对乌克兰来说价格非常高 因为如果谈判的代价 和为此付出的代价
49and payment will be on the table of Ukraine, yes, it's not fair and we are not ready for this.而报酬将摆在乌克兰的桌面上,是的,这是不公平的,我们还没有准备好这样做。
50We are ready to speak, we are ready for negotiations, any kind of format, even we are ready to speak about我们准备发言,我们准备进行谈判,任何一种形式,甚至我们愿意谈论
51any kind of topics, sensitive topics for us and I'm sure not fair, not fair even to discuss some topics,任何话题,敏感的话题 对我们来说,我敢肯定,不公平, 即使讨论一些话题,
52but we are ready because I don't want to show that we are stopping some negotiation process, etc.但是,我们准备好了,因为我不想显示 我们正在停止一些谈判过程,等等。
53But we need the United States in the middle.但我们需要美国在中间。
54It's important to have a strategic partner in the middle.中外战略伙伴很重要.
55Winston Churchill famously said that when you are going through hell, you just have to keep going.温斯顿 丘吉尔有名的说,当你经历地狱的时候,你只需要继续前进.
56You talked just a moment ago about hope.你刚才谈到希望
57I wonder last week whether or not that hope was slightly dented by what happened.上周,我想知道,这一希望是否因所发生的事情而略微破灭。
58I think we all feel it very personally, what is going on and what we are seeing.我认为,我们所有人都非常亲身感受到,正在发生什么,正在看到什么。
59It was very refreshing to see you talk last week so openly.看到你上周这么公开地说话真是令人振奋
60I think we look to our other leaders across Europe to do exactly the same.我认为,我们期待我们整个欧洲的其他领导人也这样做。
61This is one of our weapons to speak honestly and to be open and to be clear and not to play games with our partners.这是我们能诚实地说话,开诚布公,讲清楚,不和我们的伙伴玩游戏的武器之一.
62That's why this is my rule and I try to be in this direction and of course if a lot of pressure on Ukraine at this moment,这就是为什么这是我的规矩 我试图朝这个方向走 当然如果现在乌克兰承受很大压力
63of course I have to be more loud and I will be because it's a part of our defending strategy between us.当然,我必须更大声,我会是,因为它是我们之间防御战略的一部分。
64So it's understandable.所以这是可以理解的。
65We are not trying to be somebody because I always try to give the source what we are thinking about,我们不是想成为某个人 因为我总是想给源头我们的想法
66what is very sensitive again, what is very dangerous.是什么非常敏感,什么非常危险。
67If I feel the dangerous things can come or are coming for Ukraine,如果我觉得危险的东西会来或会来乌克兰
68of course I have to defend my country and I do what I can.当然,我必须保卫国家,尽我所能。
69Our guys, our soldiers on the battlefield, people work and me like a president,我们的人,我们的士兵在战场上, 人们工作,我像一个总统,
70I have to use all kinds of formats of diplomacy.我必须使用各种外交形式。
71So given everything that happened last week and given your openness and you have to take a stand,所以鉴于上星期发生的一切 以及你的开诚布公 并且你必须表明立场
72do you feel that Europe and the UK last week went far enough in speaking up?你觉得上周欧洲和英国说得够多了吗?
73Andy Burnham, our Prime Minister,安迪·伯纳姆 我们的总理
74said that he had complete solidarity with Ukraine, which is welcome.他说,他完全声援乌克兰,这是值得欢迎的。
75That's true.没错
76But do you want and hope and expect other European leaders, our Prime Minister, to just go a bit further and just call it out for what it is?但是,你是否希望并期望其他欧洲领导人,我们的总理,只是走得更远一点,并且直呼其为什么?
77It's not my suggestion to them.这不是我对他们的建议。
78It cannot be.这不可能。
79I mean, they have their internal policy and challenges.我的意思是,他们有 他们的内部政策和挑战。
80First, I'm very thankful to Andy personally, because after all these things, these challenges, difficult nights, very tough nights for our people.首先,我非常感激安迪个人, 因为经过所有这些事情, 这些挑战, 艰难的夜晚, 非常艰难的夜晚 我们的人民。
81He reacted very quickly and some other Europeans.他反应很快,还有一些欧洲人。
82I'm thankful that I had also an EU meeting with all the EU leaders.我很感激我还和所有欧盟领导人举行了一次欧盟会议。
83So I'm in this.所以,我在这个。
84I had feeling of the support.我有一种支持的感觉。
85I'm thankful.我很感谢
86But can they be more direct?但他们能更直接吗?
87Yes, they can.是的,他们可以。
88But I mean, I'm thankful.但我是说,我很感激。
89Yes, absolutely.是的,当然。
90But that's the thing, isn't it?但这就是问题所在,不是吗?
91They can be more direct.他们可以更直接。
92I don't know.师曰.
93Yes, but I'm not on their places.是的,但我不在他们的地方。
94I mean, I can't, as I said, I can speak only about myself.我的意思是,我不能,正如我所说的, 我只能谈论自己。
95And I don't want between us to lose the support of Europeans.我不想失去欧洲人的支持
96Of course.当然
97Yeah.对
98This is where we are.这就是我们的位置。
99Do you think that whenever Ukraine makes progress, when the momentum shifts towards Kiev, something always seems to happen to pull you back?你是否认为,每当乌克兰取得进展,当势头转向基辅时,总有事情会把你拉回去?
100Take Stalin, for example, last week.比如说,上周斯大林。
101Ukraine is making progress, not just on the front line, but economically and hitting Russia.乌克兰正在取得进展,不仅在前线,而且在经济上和打击俄罗斯。
102And you seem to be hitting the pressure points of Putin.你似乎正在达到普京的压力点。
103But the moment Ukraine makes progress, something happens.但一旦乌克兰取得进展,情况就会发生。
104No, I mean, this in any way, it has influence in any way we it's it's always very difficult.不,我的意思是,这无论如何, 它有影响 在任何方面,我们 它总是非常困难。
105You know how how to begin each day, how to start each day with the feeling that you are starting from the very beginning.你知道如何从每天开始, 如何从每天开始 感觉你从一开始。
106And of course, when you go with a spit and when you have good results on the battlefield and when you are chilling with these challenges,当然,当你吐口水, 当你在战场上有好结果, 当你在面对这些挑战时,
107with these sheikhs, Iranian drones, etc., when you at least found the recipe, when you find the recipe, something goes on,与这些酋长,伊朗无人机等, 当你至少找到食谱, 当你找到食谱,
108which is which doesn't depend on us.这不取决于我们
109And of course, it has influence.当然,它有影响。
110Of course, it's not helpful.当然,这没有帮助。
111So I don't know if it's coincident or not.故不知其有无合.
112But for me and for our people, it doesn't matter between us.但对于我和我们的人来说,我们之间并不重要.
113Coincident or not, it doesn't help.偶然与否,无济于事.
114If it's coincident, OK, move it, move it to the right direction.如果它是巧合,OK,移动它,移动它向正确的方向。
115So you talk about the recipe, the oil refineries being hit, the data centers being hit.所以,你谈到食谱,炼油厂被击中,数据中心被击中。
116Is that the recipe?这是食谱吗?
117Have you found at the moment a recipe that is causing proper damage?你有没有发现一个食谱 造成适当的损害?
118Really, we try to respond and people they didn't see that during long period of time, Russia attacked and our data and they've been they made a lot of cyber attacks and et cetera.真的,我们试图做出回应,而人们却看不到, 在很长一段时间里,俄罗斯攻击了我们的数据, 他们做了很多网络攻击等等。
119When we found a way how to make weaker Russia's strategy, when we found that we need refineries or to respond after their attacks on our energy network当我们找到一种方法 使俄罗斯的战略更弱 当我们发现我们需要炼油厂 或在他们袭击我们的能源网络后作出反应
120or data after their attacks, by the way, to data, we have the difference.或者说他们攻击后的数据, 顺便说一句,到数据,我们有区别。
121We are more technological.我们的技术更强。
122That's why when they attacked our data, they did it so many times.这就是为什么当他们攻击我们的数据, 他们做了这么多次。
123But we had connection, we had mobile connection, we had Internet and et cetera, because we are very decentralized from the point of digital.但是,我们有连接,我们有移动连接,我们有互联网等等, 因为从数字角度来说,我们非常分散。
124So because we are new, we are very new in it.因为我们是新人,我们是新人。
125And for Russia, it's more painful because I mean, this so they're not so decentralized.对于俄罗斯来说,这更痛苦,因为我的意思是, 这样他们才不会被分散。
126They have they have another strategy.他们有另一个策略
127They have a lot of air defense.他们有很多防空武器
128That's why they are just defending what they have.这就是为什么他们只是捍卫 他们所拥有的。
129And we don't have too much air defense because of because of our technology and because of the partners.而且我们没有太多的防空 因为我们的技术 和合作伙伴。
130We have deficit with it.我们缺乏它。
131That's why we decentralized everything, not only data, a lot of different things.这就是为什么我们分散了一切, 不仅仅是数据, 很多不同的东西。
132This is our difference.这是我们的区别。
133But really between us, we we try to respond.但实际上我们之间,我们试图作出反应。
134This is our, I think, right strategy that we always try to respond only after that same or similar attacks on us.我认为,这是我们始终试图在同样或类似袭击我们之后作出反应的正确战略。
135Given what happened last week, given that there are trilateral talks planned for next month, I wonder whether or not you think we're closer to peace or closer to escalation.鉴于上星期发生的情况,鉴于下个月计划进行三边会谈,我想知道你是否认为我们更接近和平,还是更接近升级。
136It's hard to tell, isn't it?这很难说,不是吗?
137Very hard to answer.非常难回答。
138I mean, everything in this war depends on on the will and different moment will of different countries or leaders.我的意思是,这场战争的一切取决于不同国家或领导人的意愿和不同的时刻.
139For example, we are thankful for negotiation group.例如,我们感谢谈判小组。
140We had meeting in Oslo and American team came with some ideas what we need not to make pauses.我们在奥斯陆开会,美国小组提出了一些想法,我们不需要暂停。
141So if you really your will is really to push Russians to ceasefire energy, not energy, full ceasefire and can do any kind of escalation.所以,如果你真的意志是真正地把俄国人推向停火能量,而不是能量,完全停火,并且可以做任何一种升级.
142Let me say this way.让我这样说
143So if you don't need pauses, you make to make steps.所以,如果你不需要暂停, 你做出步骤。
144Yes, each day, each two days, meetings, decisions, technical groups, decisions, no nothing, just words without any outcomes.是的,每天,每两天,会议,决定,技术小组,决定,什么都没有,只是言语,没有任何结果.
145For example, we decided this day tomorrow have meeting in Brussels.例如,我们决定明天在布鲁塞尔开会。
146Americans invited us.美国人邀请我们。
147They have to focus on it if they invite us.如果他们邀请我们的话,他们必须集中精力。
148So we are busy people, all of us, of course, because because of the war.当然,我们都是忙碌的人, 因为战争。
149For example, they invited but tomorrow they can't.比如,他们邀请了,但明天他们不能。
150Yeah, they invited.是啊,他们邀请。
151Now they they postponed it.现在他们推迟了
152No questions to them.没有问题给他们。
153I have I mean, this important things much more important here.我的意思是,这个重要的事情 这里更重要。
154Yes, then to go is to and to is to spend a day to come to Brussels because you know it.是的,那么去是去 并且是花一天来布鲁塞尔 因为你知道它。
155Yes, train, jet, jet train.是的,火车,飞机,飞机。
156Yeah, but they postponed it to some other days.是的,但他们推迟了 某天。
157Why?为什么?
158Because there are some tensions around Middle East.因为中东周围有一些紧张局势。
159So it's I mean, we are thankful to them that they are ready to organize meeting trilateral.所以,我的意思是,我们感谢他们, 他们准备组织三边会议。
160But the answer if you want to end this war, you have to focus on it.但是,如果想结束这场战争,你就必须专注于它.
161I'm not trying to push them to find their priority.我不是想逼他们找到他们的优先
162But if you already decided that priorities Middle East, you have to know that you will.但是,如果你已经决定了中东的优先事项, 你必须知道,你会的。
163I mean, this you will make this piece this peaceful process slow.我的意思是,这个你会 使这个和平过程缓慢。
164And this is what what I have.这就是我拥有的。
165I hope that we will find a way and then the nearest closest days our teams or our NSA will meet.我希望我们能找到办法,然后是我们小组或国家安全局最近的一天。
166But as I said, that a United States is focusing on Middle East.但是,正如我所说的那样,美国正在集中关注中东。
167How frustrating is that that publicly you have a president who says he wants to end the war多么令人沮丧的是,公开 你有一个总统 谁说他想结束战争
168and he wants to do it really, really quickly.他非常,非常,非常的快。
169And then a meeting that is set up in Brussels then gets postponed.然后在布鲁塞尔安排的会议被推迟。
170No, no, it's I mean, this is postponed.不 不 我是说 推迟了
171I don't know, one day, two days.我不知道,一天,两天。
172I hope I'm just sharing with you my feeling.我希望我只是跟你分享我的感受
173Yeah, if we decided we have to do it, if we decided to meet, we need outcome.是啊,如果我们决定我们必须这样做, 如果我们决定见面,我们需要结果。
174If we don't have outcomes, it's not right infrastructure what we do.如果我们没有结果, 我们做的基础设施是不正确的。
175Then I hope we will have meeting trilateral meeting is good in November.那么,我希望我们在11月举行三边会议。
176I don't know, hope yourself of November, not the second.我不知道,希望自己是十一月,而不是第二个
177But we will see a lot of things now depend on American elections situation in the Middle East.但我们现在将看到很多事情取决于美国在中东的选举情况。
178Do you think the American elections could be quite a significant moment for what comes next?你觉得美国选举对于接下来的事情会是一个重大的时刻吗?
179I think everyone's waiting, aren't they, for the midterms and to see what happens next?我想每个人都在等待,不是吗, 等待中期,看看接下来会发生什么?
180No, of course, it will have influence in any way.不,当然,它有 以任何方式的影响。
181In what way do you think you'll have influence in terms of curtailing?你觉得你对减肥有什么影响?
182We understand that.我们理解这一点。
183I mean, this what the situation will be in Senate, in Congress.我是说,这是参议院,国会的情况
184I think we will have this result after these elections.我认为,我们将在选举之后取得这一结果。
185And of course, it will have influence on a lot of different things, including Ukraine, including the war in Ukraine,当然,它会影响很多不同的事物, 包括乌克兰的战争,
186including to attitude to Russians and different deals with them.包括对待俄罗斯人的态度和与他们不同的交易。
187So I think that we will see.因此,我认为我们将看到。
188I don't know.师曰.
189I mean, but changes are understandable.我的意思是,但变化是可以理解的。
190Do you think at the moment you have Trump's support?你觉得你现在有川普的支持吗?
191Do you trust him?你相信他吗?
192Can you trust him, given everything that he said?你能相信他吗?
193Look, I mean, it's not about something personal.听着,我的意思是,它不是 有关个人的东西。
194No, of course, of course.不,当然,当然。
195But we need we need we trust Americans, Americans and bipartisan support.但我们需要我们信任美国人,美国人和两党的支持.
196And we're thankful to administration.我们感谢政府。
197And now they made it made a deal with managed this problem with starlings and intelligence.现在他们做了一个交易 解决这个问题 与星海和智能。
198And I have to be thankful.我必须感谢。
199I don't want to lose this.我不想失去这个。
200I think that you understand me.我认为你理解我
201Yeah, but but we need more.是的 但我们需要更多
202We need more support.我们需要更多的支持。
203We need not to have any kind of questions with with our with our administration,我们不需要和我们的政府有任何问题
204because they have to be on our side because Russia is aggressive.因为他们必须站在我们一边 因为俄国是侵略性的
205And with all respect, with all these mediation, of course, to mediate, you need to have a position,恕我直言,在所有这些调解下, 调解,你需要一个职位,
206a position when you mediate to be in the middle,当你们调解的时候,
207but not to be in the middle of your attitude to this war,但不要站在你对这场战争的态度中间,
208because everything is clear who is aggressive.因为所有事情都清楚谁是攻击性的。
209This is important not to change your position because of your mediation.这很重要,不能因为你的调解而改变你的立场。
210This is very important.这很重要。
211You talked earlier about will and willpower.你之前说过意志和意志的力量
212It's all about the will.皆是义意.
213Yeah, it's all about the will.是啊,这是所有关于意志。
214Do you think that President Trump has?你认为川普总统有吗?
215I mean, the indications are that he's chosen a side.我的意思是,迹象表明 他选择了一边。
216He's certainly more towards Moscow is certainly his attitude.他肯定更喜欢莫斯科 肯定是他的态度
217And the comments that he's made in the last week suggest so.而他上周发表的评论也暗示了这一点.
218I don't think you can get away from that.我不认为你可以逃脱。
219And you said you said last week that he's on the wrong side of history.你说你上星期说过 他站在历史错误的一边
220I think that concerns a lot of people that the way things are heading,我觉得这关系到很多人 事情的走向,
221he seems to be very much picking a side, which I don't know.他似乎很挑剔, 我不知道。
222It's my point of view.这是我的观点。
223And it's not suggestions to president of the United States.这不是对美国总统的建议
224Yes, I'm sure that at the end of the days,是的,我相信 在最后的日子,
225Putin with the beginning of this aggression, of course, will lose.普京在这场侵略开始时,当然会输。
226And of course, it of course, it depends what way,当然,当然,它取决于什么方式,
227what format will he see it and when?他看到什么形式,什么时候?
228I don't know.师曰.
229I mean, it's up to different details.我的意思是,这是不同的细节。
230Yes, but he was wrong.是的 但他错了
231Absolutely.当然
232He brought the aggression and the big war, full scale war in Europe.他带来了侵略和大战,欧洲的全面战争.
233He brought it personally.他亲自带来的
234It was his personal Putin's personal attitude to Ukraine.这是普京个人对乌克兰的个人态度.
235He hates us, then doesn't respect and he never it's true.他恨我们,然后不尊重 和他从来没有是真的。
236And now he's more open and more clear.现在他更加开放和清晰。
237The only things what is what is understandable during the war that he began唯一能理解的是他发动的战争
238and became to be very, very clear that he really doesn't respect our sovereignty变得非常,非常清楚 他真的不尊重我们的主权
239and territory integrity.领土完整。
240He thinks that all our territory is his territory他认为我们所有的领地都是他的领地
241and his personal goal to occupied us and to destroy the other thing以及他占领我们 摧毁其他东西的个人目标
242that he will not be able to do this.他将无法做到这一点。
243And partially, of course, because of the support of the partners.当然,部分是因为合作伙伴的支持。
244And that's why I think United States, our strong partner,这就是为什么我认为,美国, 我们强大的伙伴,
245if they know, if they understand that his goal to occupy us and to destroy如果他们知道,如果他们明白 他的目标 占领和摧毁我们
246they can't be in all the process in the middle or can't be even if it's他们不能在中间的所有过程中 或不能是即使它是
247the position and the decision to be in the middle, they can't be on Putin's side他们不能站在普京一边
248because he is aggressor.因为他是侵略者。
249United States and the president can't be on the side of aggressor.美国和总统不能站在侵略者的一边.
250Doesn't matter what the country we are speaking about.我们所说的国家不重要
251Just because they are leaders of democracy.因为他们是民主的领导人。
252He can't be, surely.他不可能,当然。
253But is he?是吗?
254I don't know.师曰.
255Have you spoken to him since last week?你上周就跟他说过话了吗?
256No, we didn't speak.不,我们没有说话。
257I know he always said to me that he is very supportive that this war will end.我知道他总是对我说 他非常支持这场战争将会结束
258And he always clearly said to me that he thinks that Putin,他总是对我说,他认为普京,
259I mean, we need to find the key, how to stop this war.我的意思是,我们需要找到关键, 如何停止这场战争。
260But then publicly he shows and demonstrated his good relations with Putin.但随后他公开展示并展示了他与普京的良好关系.
261And of course, if I think so, I don't know.当然,如果我这么认为,我不知道。
262But I think if he demonstrates great relations with Putin and Putin can see it但我认为,如果他表现出 伟大的关系与普京和普京
263and I mean this in media and of course Putin will also say that everything is okay.当然普京也会说一切都很好。
264So, I mean, there's no pressure, no strong signals from the United States所以,我的意思是,没有压力, 没有强烈的信号来自美国
265mean that he is doing well.他表现得很好
266So everything, we don't hear very often.所以,一切,我们不经常听到。
267We don't hear condemnation of aggression.我们没有听到对侵略的谴责.
268We need it.我们需要它。
269Just like people.就像人一样
270Yes, we need it.是的,我们需要它。
271Can I ask a very direct question?我可以问一个非常直接的问题吗?
272Absolutely not.绝对不是。
273Any direct question.任何直接的问题。
274In the theme of being absolutely direct about it, has the world already entered the next world war?在绝对直截了当的主题中,世界是否已经进入了下一次世界大战?
275I think no.我认为没有。
276I think that because people, when they speak about a world war,我认为因为人们在谈论一场世界大战时
277that world war will include all the possibilities and capabilities of Russia or other big countries.世界战争将包括俄罗斯或其他大国的一切可能性和能力。
278Yes, including nuclear and etc.是的,包括核等。
279So I think that, of course, it's dangerous.所以,我认为,当然,这是危险的。
280But it's again about one person.但又约一人.
281I think that it's very dangerous for Russia to use nuclear weapon for Putin我认为俄罗斯为普京使用核武器是非常危险的
282because it will be his personal decision.因为这是他个人的决定。
283And it's understandable that the target will be Russia after that.并且可以理解的是,之后的目标将是俄罗斯.
284For the world, the target will be Russia, not only Putin.对世界来说,目标将是俄罗斯,而不仅仅是普京.
285How close?有多远?
286Because they will understand that, look, if this person used nuclear,因为他们会明白,你看, 如果这个人使用了核,
287yes, so we need to do everything not to see this person anytime是的,所以我们需要做一切 不见这个人随时
288and people around him and the circle of people who decided to destroy the world.他身边的人 以及决定毁灭世界的人的圈子
289So it's more than Ukraine.因此它比乌克兰还要多.
290For me, my world is Ukraine, for all of us.对我来说,我的世界是乌克兰,是我们所有人。
291But the world is bigger, much more bigger.但是,世界是更大的, 更大的。
292And the danger of Russia is bigger than to destroy Ukraine, much more bigger.而俄罗斯的危险比摧毁乌克兰更大,要大得多.
293That's why he's trying, you know, feeling, I mean, he tries to check, to test everything这就是为什么他尝试,你知道,感觉, 我的意思是,他试图检查,测试一切
294and to test everybody.测试每个人
295That's why I said that we need, and you said, what about the clear answers from other people?这就是为什么我说我们需要,而你说, 那其他人的明确答案呢?
296Yes, immediately, I think this is important.是的,立即,我认为这很重要。
297Yes.对
298To stop him.来阻止他
299How many, you mentioned nuclear just earlier.有多少,你刚才提到核。
300How many times has he come close to using a nuclear weapon?他几度接近使用核武器?
301In his rhetoric, I think he...在他的言辞中,我认为他...
302But how close has he come to actually using a nuclear weapon in the last four and a half years?但是,在过去四年半的时间里,他实际上如何接近使用核武器?
303I think it depends on his, how to say, mental health.我认为这取决于他,如何说,心理健康。
304I think it depends on it.我认为这取决于它。
305I don't know what is with him.我不知道他有什么问题
306He is absolutely crazy or half or 10 percent and et cetera.他完全疯了 一半或10%等等
307So I hope that he understands what he's doing.所以我希望他明白自己在做什么。
308What about, because why we speak this way about this person?那又怎么样 为什么我们要这样说这个人?
309Because in his rhetoric and in his people who are around him, they often use the nuclear weapon rhetoric.因为在他的言论中,以及在他周围的人民中,他们经常使用核武器的言论。
310Once, half year during, I mean, yes, once a year, two times a year, yeah, two times a year, not less.有一次,半年,我是说,是的,一年一次,一年两次,是的,一年两次,不减.
311They try to push to media narratives, their bloggers that, you know, if you will pressure or if you will pressure on Russia他们试图推向媒体的叙事, 他们的博客,你知道,如果你要向俄罗斯施压或施压
312or if you will support Ukraine or if you will put additional sanctions, we will use.或者如果你支持乌克兰 或者如果你将施加额外的制裁, 我们将使用。
313Some, I don't know, of his people, they always share.有些,我不知道, 他的人,他们总是分享。
314Sorry to push you on this, but has there come a moment over the last four and a half years抱歉逼你这么做 但过去4年半来有没有出现过
315where there has been a great risk of Putin using a nuclear weapon?普京使用核武器的风险很大?
316Has there been a moment where that's been a potential possibility?曾经有过这样的可能性吗?
317I don't know this information really that I know that they always try to to raise this topic when they need something or when they afraid of something,我不知道这个信息,真的我知道, 他们总是试图提出这个话题 当他们需要的东西, 当他们害怕的东西,
318when they want to divide Europe or they want somebody from Europe or from the White House not to support Ukraine.当他们想分裂欧洲 或者他们希望有人 从欧洲或白宫 不支持乌克兰。
319They always raise this topic like, you know, additional psychological instrument of influence to pressure on Europeans or United States.他们总是提出这个话题 比如,你知道, 额外的心理工具 影响对欧洲人或美国的压力。
320So but I never saw something, you know, something more than this.所以,但我从来没有见过什么,你知道的, 一些比这个更多的。
321Just moving on to our Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, what are your first impressions?我们的首相安迪·伯纳姆 你的第一印象是什么?
322Very positive, really, and that we've been very open.非常积极,真的, 而且我们一直很开放。
323I like such people, really.我真的喜欢这样的人
324I like such people which are which are trying to to make shorter distance.我喜欢那些想缩短距离的人
325And and we had conversation.我们聊了聊
326It was like with with between people.就像人际交往一样
327Yes, between human.是的,在人类之间
328Yeah.对
329And then he's very supportive and absolutely understandable for me.然后他非常支持我 对我来说是完全可以理解的
330So I'm thankful that we just just immediately build the relations.所以我很感激我们刚刚建立了关系。
331But it's all about our people.但一切众生.
332I think that this such attitude of your nations or your nation to our people and our people to to Britain and to UK.我认为,贵国或贵国对我国人民和我国人民对英国和联合王国的这种态度。
333And so I think this is this it helps.所以我认为这是帮助。
334It pushes us to to to such dialogue.它迫使我们进行这种对话。
335On Wednesday, John Healy, our former defence minister, secretary, forgive me, who you know well,周三,约翰・希利,我们的前国防部长,秘书, 原谅我,谁你很清楚,
336is now our chancellor, will deliver his first budget in the House of Commons.现在是我们的议长,将在下议院交付他的第一笔预算。
337How much of a priority should defence be in his budget?他的预算中应该有多少国防优先?
338And I know you're not writing if I have influence.我知道你不写 如果我有影响力。
339If you had influence, if you could say if you could have a conversation with John Healy now ahead of his budget,如果你有影响力 如果你能说 如果你能和约翰・希利谈话 现在比他的预算还早
340what would you say to him about defence?你会对他说什么 关于防御?
341Because the defence investment plan has been delayed by a year.因为国防投资计划推迟了一年.
342And yet there are clear threats from Russia, not just on the UK, but across Europe.然而,俄罗斯显然不仅对英国,而且对整个欧洲都有威胁。
343It is pushing NATO's buttons repeatedly.它不断推北约的按钮。
344John Healy应该怎么辩护?
345How much of a priority should it be?何等为重.
346It depends.这取决于。
347Can the United Kingdom trust Russia or not?英国能否信任俄罗斯?
348No, if not to 100 percent.不,如果不是100%的话。
349You need to build your military facilities, rebuild a lot of different things.你需要建造你的军事设施, 重建很多不同的事物。
350What UK had and we know we understand what about respect.英国有什么 我们知道我们理解尊重。
351Of course, we are ready to share what we know.当然,我们愿意分享我们所知道的。
352The UK has great opportunity for this because of our relations and because of your internal industry.由于我们的关系和你们内部的产业,英国有极好的机会做到这一点。
353But air defence is weak in all of Europe, not only in the United Kingdom.但在整个欧洲,不仅在英国,防空力量薄弱.
354And in the United Kingdom, geographically, you didn't need such air defence, huge air defence.在英国,在地理上,你不需要这样的防空,巨大的防空.
355Yes, because of nature, nature defending water borders and etc.是的,因为自然,自然 捍卫水边等等。
356But now it's a new period, new life, new century, and we can't trust Russia.但是,现在这是一个新时期,新生活,新世纪,我们不能信任俄国.
357And the UK will not be the nearest, yes, friends with Russia.英国不会是俄罗斯的近亲
358And we know the attitude of Russia to the UK.我们知道俄罗斯对英国的态度。
359So your opinion, sorry for interrupting, your opinion is that defence can't be delayed.所以,你的意见,对不起打断, 你的意见是 辩护不能拖延。
360It's clear and obvious the threats that Russia poses that it needs to be dealt with immediately.俄国带来的威胁是显而易见的,需要立即处理.
361We have to take a firm hold of it.我们必须牢牢抓住它。
362Absolutely, because we have to understand and we have to respect today's situation and understand it's not just defending.当然,因为我们必须理解,我们必须尊重今天的情况,理解它不仅仅是捍卫。
363It's not just weapon, of course.这不仅仅是武器,当然。
364You have hybrid attacks with, I mean, this increasing experience of Russia in it.你和俄罗斯的这种 不断增长的经验有混合攻击
365Yes, because of our war and because of this practice and hybrid attacks, hybrid war, cyber attacks like missiles,是的,因为我们的战争 和由于这种做法和混合攻击, 混合战争,网络攻击 像导弹,
366like different kind of weapon, like drones, different kind of drones, and they're taking data and other things.像不同种类的武器, 像无人机,不同种类的无人机, 他们正在采集数据和其他东西。
367So they will do it.所以,他们会做到这一点。
368They will continue to do it in everywhere in Europe.他们将继续在欧洲各地这样做。
369Your advice to the UK, if I can ask you, is don't delay.你对英国的建议,如果我可以问你, 不要拖延。
370Absolutely.当然
371I think so.我想是这样。
372But sorry, John, I'm so sorry.但对不起,约翰,我很抱歉。
373Sorry, you have your internal questions.对不起,你有你的内部问题。
374But it's important to be direct.但要直接一点
375But I don't know all the problems.但我不知道所有的问题。
376Yes, yes, but I think that today's Russian policy is very dangerous.是的,是的,但我认为今天的俄罗斯政策是非常危险的.
377That's why better to it's not about offensive again, better to have all the technologies, all the defending technologies,这就是为什么它更好 不攻击再次, 更好的拥有所有的技术, 所有防御技术,
378including, as I said, data, cyber, digital.包括数据 网络 数字
379So it's all about, by the way, it's all about the things what people just civilians use every day banking system, how to defend it.所以,顺便说一下,它涉及的是人们每天只使用平民的银行系统,如何捍卫它。
380You can't I mean, don't not invest to this cyber infrastructure and be saved.你不能我的意思是,不要投资 这个网络基础设施 并被拯救。
381No, that's why a lot of this a lot of different things.不,这就是为什么这些很多不同的东西。
382Can I now turn to you?我现在可以转告你了?
383We admire you so much.我们非常钦佩你。
384I admire you.我钦佩你。
385Thank you for the strength and the resolve that you've shown.感谢您表现出的力量和决心.
386I think you lead your country brilliantly.我认为你出色地领导着你的国家。
387Where do you find that strength from, given the enormity of the moment, the pressure that you're under and the responsibility that you have?你从哪里找到这种力量呢? 鉴于此刻的严峻性, 你承受的压力,你的责任?
388Only people can take all your energy and you will be tied and without energy, without power and you don't want to live.只有人能夺走你所有的精力 你会被捆绑,没有能量,没有动力,你不想活着。
389Yes, some kind of people and also another kind of people who give you this energy, energy to work,是的,某种人 还有另一种人 给你这种能量,工作能量,
390to like your job, to defend, to be loud, to be direct, not to be afraid, to be very clear, to support, not to slip, but be with energy.喜欢你的工作, 防守, 大声, 直接, 不害怕, 非常清楚, 支持, 不滑倒, 但与精力。
391So it's all about people, people who are very good and people who are real.因此,它的全部是人, 人谁是非常好和人谁是真实的。
392I mean, this I mean, this don't have with them, but not to have with them anything.我的意思是,这我的意思是, 这没有与他们, 但没有任何与他们在一起。
393So it's all about people.故一切众生.
394My people around me, it's just people which I mean, this, of course, my wife, my children, my family.我身边的人,只是我意思, 当然,我的妻子,我的孩子,我的家人。
395And of course, people who are just in the streets, just ordinary people.当然,在街上的人,普通人。
396Sometimes you can see people and you can, you know, our energy guys who can renovate any energy infrastructure after attacks and they know that they can be wounded.有时候你可以看到人,你可以,你知道, 我们的能源家伙,谁可以修复 任何能源基础设施 攻击后,他们知道他们可以受伤。
397And because Russia is terribly, they are taking once, then they are waiting when all the our people,因为俄国太可怕了,他们要吃一次, 然后他们要等我们的人民,
398specialists, when the specialists will come and they want to attack again.专家,当专家会来 他们想再次攻击。
399So these people risk and the price of their risk is their life.因此这些人冒着风险,风险的代价就是他们的生命.
400And when I see such people, just ordinary people, and I want to always to shake hands or to hate them, it's great.当我看到这样的人,只是普通人, 我想总是握手或恨他们, 这是伟大的。
401They give me also soldiers when I come to the battlefield.当我来到战场时,他们还给我士兵。
402Yeah, there are different people, different soldiers.是的,有不同的人,不同的士兵。
403We had we have the army mostly of people from different professions.我们的军队大多来自不同的职业
404And that's why you can see absolutely unique people.这就是为什么你可以看到 绝对独特的人。
405Yes.对
406And they've been engineers for IT sector teachers.他们是IT部门教师的工程师。
407Yeah.对
408And it's a different people with different lives.亦是众生不同.
409And they were interesting.他们很有趣。
410I wonder what you've learned about yourself over the last four and a half years.我想知道你在过去的四年半里学到了什么
411You must think back to the way you were four and a half years ago to where you are now.想想你四年半前的样子 到现在的样子
412And it must be vastly different.则必大异.
413I wonder what you've learned about yourself.我想知道你学到了什么
414Sometimes we spend time on this, not on important things.有时我们花时间做这件事 而不是重要的事情
415So I can I'm not focusing now on some moments which are really not necessary.所以,我现在可以不 专注于一些 并不必要的时刻。
416And a lot of things which in my past life could could nourish you.以及很多我前世能养活你的东西
417And it doesn't matter.且道无碍.
418And people who are empty, you know, just empty people, they can't give you anything good.和人谁是空的,你知道, 只是空的人, 他们不能给你什么好。
419Yes, I'm trying not to spend time on them or such people around close.是的,我尽量不花时间 在他们或这样的人周围。
420I mean, this, you know, big people or big businessmen.我的意思是,这个,你知道,大人物或大商人。
421It's not about it.不关其事.
422And for me, it's a big person and then big businessmen or big, you know, general or something like this.对我来说,这是一个大人物, 然后大商人或大, 你知道,将军或类似的东西。
423So it's all on focus on necessary things.所以这一切都是专注于必要的事情。
424What you can control.你可以控制的东西。
425Focus on what you can control.专心于你所能控制的事物.
426No, not even not even to control on the things which can give you something.不,甚至不能控制那些能给你东西的东西
427People with additional value.有额外价值的人。
428I'm not speaking about business.我不是说生意
429I'm speaking about this.我说的是这个。
430Yeah, absolutely.当然
431So such people strengthen you.所以,这样的人加强你。
432This is important than spend time any free time spend with your family.这比花时间和家人在一起重要
433Very last question.最后一个问题
434It's very apt, actually.实际上,这是非常合适的。
435I spoke to the first lady in June as a phrase, and I'm not sure if you've heard of this, that behind every great man is a great woman.六月我与第一夫人讲了一句句子,不知你是否听说过这个,每个伟人背后都是一位伟人.
436Is that the case for you?是这样吗?
437And can you talk a bit about the support and the relationship that you have with your wife?你能谈谈你和你妻子的支持和关系吗?
438Love and love and respect.爱与爱与尊重.
439And I hope she also.我希望她也一样。
440And and I mean, this the way of how he supports me and the way of her attitude to during this war to everything to me.我意思是,这就是他支持我的方式 以及她在战争中对我的态度
441Children, just people around.孩子们,只有周围的人。
442And so I respect you very much.我非常尊敬你,我非常尊敬你
443Is she a pillar of strength?她是力量的支柱吗?
444Absolutely.当然
445She's very strong and she's my biggest friend.她很强壮,是我最大的朋友
446She not only love also biggest friend.她不仅爱着大朋友
447And it's I mean, this I'm happy.我是说,我很开心
448I think this is it's she she makes made and I hope will me happy.我想这是她做的 我希望我会高兴
449Thank you very much.谢谢
450Jack already, Mr. President.杰克已经,总统先生。
451Jack, thank you so much.杰克,非常感谢
452It's been an honor.我很荣幸
453Thank you so much.非常感谢
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