《纽约时报》首度公开！斯泰纳姆 2008 年尘封访谈曝光：直
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:03 | The mark of being part of the wrong group, a peripheral group rather than a central one, | 成为错误团体的一部分 外围团体而不是中心团体 |
| 0:09 | is that nothing you do is right. | 你所做的一切都不对 |
| 0:11 | And what's so interesting about not being able to win, and by conforming, is that you | 无法赢的有趣之处在于 你 |
| 0:17 | learn to do whatever you f***ing well please. | 学着做你想做的事 |
| 0:19 | Can I say that? | 我可以这么说吗? |
| 0:20 | You did. | 没错 |
| 0:33 | Gloria Steinem's life defied convention at every turn. | 格洛丽亚·斯泰因姆的一生在每一转弯都藐视大会. |
| 0:38 | A journalist, entrepreneur and feminist crusader, she became the most widely recognized figure | 她是一个记者、企业家和女权主义者 成为最广为人知的人物 |
| 0:44 | of the modern feminist movement in the 1970s, leading its transformation from a social movement | 在1970年代的现代女权运动中 领导着社会运动的转变 |
| 0:50 | into a powerful national revolution. | 进入强大的民族革命。 |
展开字幕全文（148 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | The mark of being part of the wrong group, a peripheral group rather than a central one, | 成为错误团体的一部分 外围团体而不是中心团体 |
| 2 | is that nothing you do is right. | 你所做的一切都不对 |
| 3 | And what's so interesting about not being able to win, and by conforming, is that you | 无法赢的有趣之处在于 你 |
| 4 | learn to do whatever you f***ing well please. | 学着做你想做的事 |
| 5 | Can I say that? | 我可以这么说吗? |
| 6 | You did. | 没错 |
| 7 | Gloria Steinem's life defied convention at every turn. | 格洛丽亚·斯泰因姆的一生在每一转弯都藐视大会. |
| 8 | A journalist, entrepreneur and feminist crusader, she became the most widely recognized figure | 她是一个记者、企业家和女权主义者 成为最广为人知的人物 |
| 9 | of the modern feminist movement in the 1970s, leading its transformation from a social movement | 在1970年代的现代女权运动中 领导着社会运动的转变 |
| 10 | into a powerful national revolution. | 进入强大的民族革命。 |
| 11 | As a young reporter in 1963, Steinem grabbed attention when she went undercover as a cotton-tailed | 1963年,作为一名年轻记者,斯坦因姆当着棉花尾巴当卧底时 抓住了注意力 |
| 12 | waitress at the Playboy Club in New York. | 在纽约花花公子俱乐部服务员。 |
| 13 | She wrote a damning exposé about the low-paying sexist working conditions and regretted taking | 她写了一篇关于低薪性别歧视工作条件的 令人发指的揭发书 并遗憾地接受了 |
| 14 | that assignment almost immediately. | 任务几乎马上完成 |
| 15 | Doing the piece about the Playboy Club was not the smartest thing I ever did because | 做关于花花公子俱乐部的作品 并不是我做过最聪明的事,因为 |
| 16 | it followed me. | 它跟着我 |
| 17 | It followed me and it meant I got less serious assignments and even now sometimes I'm still | 它跟着我,它意味着我得到 不那么严肃的任务, 即使现在我仍然 |
| 18 | introduced as a former bunny and I think to myself, well should I, I don't want to desert | 作为前兔子被介绍,我想我自己, 如果我,我不想逃避 |
| 19 | the women who were working there who were having a hard time, but should I explain that | 那些在那里工作的女人, 有过一个困难的时间, 但我应该解释一下。 |
| 20 | it was for an exposé or is that a betrayal of them? | 是被揭发还是背叛了他们? |
| 21 | I go through this little, trying to figure out what to do. | 我经历了这个小, 试图想出该怎么做。 |
| 22 | It did establish it. | 它确实建立了它。 |
| 23 | But in the wrong way though, or in a less than right way. | 但以错误的方式,或以不正确的方式。 |
| 24 | Gloria Marie Steinem was born in Toledo, Ohio in 1934. | 1934年格洛丽亚·玛丽·施泰因姆出生于俄亥俄州托莱多. |
| 25 | When she was 10, her parents divorced and her older sister moved out. | 10岁时,她的父母离婚,姐姐搬出去. |
| 26 | Gloria was left alone to care for her mother who suffered from depression and struggled | 格洛丽亚独自照顾她的母亲 她患有抑郁症和挣扎 |
| 27 | with nervous breakdowns. | 神经崩溃 |
| 28 | Ms. Steinem, you had an unconventional, erratic time as a child. | Steinem女士 你小时候有一段不寻常的 不稳定的时间 |
| 29 | You took care of your mentally ill mother from the age of about 11 until you went to | 你从11岁起就照顾你的精神病妈妈 直到你去了 |
| 30 | college. | 大学。 |
| 31 | I wonder if you talk about those years. | 我想知道你有没有谈论那些年。 |
| 32 | It's difficult to talk about them because I see them much more positively now than I | 很难谈论他们 因为我现在看到他们 比我更积极 |
| 33 | did at the time or for years afterward. | 在当时或之后的几年里 |
| 34 | For instance, now I see the fact that I didn't go to school a full year until I was maybe, | 举例来说,现在我看到了这样一个事实: 我一整年没有上学,直到我可能, |
| 35 | I don't know, 10 or something like that, as an advantage because although at the time | 我不知道,10或类似的东西, 作为一个优势,因为虽然当时 |
| 36 | I wanted to go to school like the other kids, now I think, oh, I missed a brainwashing. | 我想像其他孩子一样去上学, 现在我想,哦,我错过了洗脑。 |
| 37 | You know, I didn't get the Dick and Jane books and the girls do this and boys do that. | 我没拿到迪克和简的书 女孩们也这样做 男孩们也这样做 |
| 38 | So I say that because we remember our childhoods differently at different points in time. | 所以我这样说是因为我们记起我们的童年在不同的时间点上有所不同。 |
| 39 | I'm much more conscious now also of how lucky I was that my father looked after me as much | 我现在更清楚我有多幸运 我父亲也照顾我 |
| 40 | as my mother when I was little because my mother was ill. | 我小时候因为母亲生病而成为母亲 |
| 41 | So that allowed me to know that men can be loving and nurturing and raise kids. | 这样我就可以知道 男人可以爱护和养育孩子。 |
| 42 | And yet at the time, I felt different and like an outcast and all the things one feels | 然而,在当时,我觉得 不同,就像一个被排斥 和所有的事情,一个人感觉 |
| 43 | as a kid. | 作为一个孩子。 |
| 44 | That's so interesting because I would have thought you would be much angrier at your | 那太有趣了 因为我本以为你会更生气的 |
| 45 | father. | 父亲 |
| 46 | He did at one point leave you in a rot-infested home and say, take care of mom. | 他确实把你留在一个腐烂的家里 说照顾妈妈 |
| 47 | I would have been, well... | 我本来会... |
| 48 | Yeah, I can't find it in my heart to be angry at him because he, you know, I think kids | 是啊,我不能发现它在我的心脏 气他,因为他,你知道,我觉得孩子 |
| 49 | know when parents are doing their best. | 知道当父母在尽力时 |
| 50 | They loved me, they didn't mistreat me, they never hit me, they treated me as a companion. | 他们爱我, 他们没有虐待我, 他们从来没有打我, 他们把我当作同伴。 |
| 51 | My mother was a theosophist, which meant that she at least considered reincarnation. | 我母亲是神学家,这意味着她至少考虑过转世. |
| 52 | She always said, children are little strangers who arrive in your life and you have the duty | 她总是说,孩子是小陌生人 在你的生活,你有责任 |
| 53 | and the pleasure of loving them, but they don't belong to you. | 和爱他们的乐趣, 但他们不属于你。 |
| 54 | And the point is to discover who they already are and nurture that. | 重点是发现他们已经是谁,并培养他们。 |
| 55 | Well, who could want a better philosophy of child rearing? | 谁会想要更好的育儿哲学呢? |
| 56 | Something I never understood, how somebody who didn't go to school until she was 12 | 12岁才上学的人 |
| 57 | years old, Gloria Steinem, not only did well, but wound up getting into Smith College. | 年老的格洛丽亚·斯泰因姆 不仅表现很好 而且最后进入了史密斯学院 |
| 58 | How in Lorde's name did she catch up? | 她是怎么赶上洛尔的? |
| 59 | Did your parents' home school, mother home school you or? | 你父母的母校还是母校? |
| 60 | No, she kind of warded off truant officers by saying that she was home schooling, but | 不,她有种防守 逃学警官说她在家里上学,但。 |
| 61 | actually I was just reading all the time. | 其实我一直在看书 |
| 62 | I didn't know my multiplication tables, but I had a big vocabulary. | 我不知道我的乘法表, 但我有一个很大的词汇。 |
| 63 | Right after Smith, you were engaged to be married and you gave the ring back. | 在Smith之后 你订婚了 你把戒指还给我了 |
| 64 | Quote, I just couldn't do it, you said. | 引用,我只是不能做到这一点,你说。 |
| 65 | Elaborate a little bit on that early insight into your reservations about a woman's prescribed | 仔细解释一下你对女性处方的保留 |
| 66 | role in the 1950s. | 1950年代的角色。 |
| 67 | You were kind of the rebel then? | 那时你有点叛逆? |
| 68 | I didn't think of myself as a rebel. | 我没想到自己是个叛逆者 |
| 69 | Or did I? | 还是我? |
| 70 | I don't know. | 师曰. |
| 71 | I'm not sure, but all I knew was that marriage was presented to us in the 50s as your only | 我不确定 但我只知道50年代的婚姻 是我们唯一的 |
| 72 | life-changing device. | 改变生命的装置 |
| 73 | The ones you got married, then it was the career of your husband, the needs of your | 你结婚的那些,然后是 你丈夫的事业,你的需要 |
| 74 | children. | 孩子们 |
| 75 | And if you really deeply believe that, it's like death. | 如果你真的坚信这一点, 这就像死亡。 |
| 76 | It's the last change you can possibly make. | 这是你唯一能做的改变 |
| 77 | So I assumed that I was going to get married and have children and follow the pattern that | 所以我想我要结婚生孩子 并遵循那种模式 |
| 78 | I saw as the only one, but I just was delaying it. | 我当时只看到一个人 但我只是拖延时间 |
| 79 | It was 1969 when Ms. Steinem, then a columnist for New York Magazine, covered a meeting in | 当时是1969年,时任纽约杂志专栏作家的Steinem女士报道了在2002年的一次会议。 |
| 80 | a church basement at which women described their illegal abortions. | 一个教堂地下室 在那里,妇女描述了她们的非法堕胎。 |
| 81 | The result was her first openly feminist essay, After Black Power, Women's Liberation. | 结果是她第一篇公开的女权主义散文"黑权"之后,"妇女解放". |
| 82 | It was a very, very life-changing event for me just to hear women stand up and tell the | 这是一个非常,非常改变 生活的事情,我只是听到 女人站起来告诉 |
| 83 | in public about something that only happened to women and take it seriously. | 在公共场合,关于一些只发生在女人身上的事情, 并认真对待它。 |
| 84 | It was very, very important. | 这很重要 |
| 85 | And of course, it's fairly obvious what drew me to it, even if I didn't understand it | 当然,很显然是什么吸引了我, 即使我不明白 |
| 86 | at the time. | 在当时。 |
| 87 | I also had had an abortion when I was 22 and not told anyone about it. | 我22岁时也流产了,没有告诉任何人。 |
| 88 | I feel deeply that my decision to have an abortion was an ethical and moral decision | 我深深地感到,我决定堕胎 是一个道德和道德的决定 |
| 89 | because it was for me the first time in my life I refused to be passive and I took responsibility | 因为这是我人生中第一次 拒绝被动 我承担责任 |
| 90 | for my own life. | 为我自己的生活。 |
| 91 | And the doctor who recommended me to the person who did the abortion and who was taking a | 医生推荐我给 堕胎和服用 |
| 92 | risk in doing so was a very nice man who said, you must promise me two things. | 冒着风险这样做,是一个非常好的人 谁说,你必须答应我两件事。 |
| 93 | You will never tell anyone my name and you will do what you want to do with your life. | 你永远不会告诉任何人我的名字, 你会做你想做的 你的生活。 |
| 94 | Talk a little bit about the founding of MIS. | 略谈MIS的创立. |
| 95 | So, it became more and more clear, and especially in women's magazines where you were, you know, | 因此,它变得越来越清楚, 特别是在妇女杂志 你在那里,你知道, |
| 96 | making 101 kinds of hamburger but not change, that we couldn't write what we wanted to write. | 做101种汉堡 但不是改变, 我们无法写我们想要写的东西。 |
| 97 | So that's what it came from, you know, it was just women writers and editors having | 所以这就是它来自,你知道, 这只是女性作家和编辑有 |
| 98 | meetings and saying, we'd like to work for a magazine we actually read. | 开会说 我们想为一本杂志工作 |
| 99 | The first cover, one that I still love, is a woman, Blue, you know, because we were trying | 我仍然爱的第一张封面 是一个女人,蓝色,你知道,因为我们尝试 |
| 100 | to make her every woman, so we didn't want to make her white or brown or black, but anyway, | 让她成为每个女人 所以我们不想让她变成 白色或棕色或黑色,但无论如何, |
| 101 | so she's blue like Krishna and she has many, many arms and in each hand there is a symbol | 所以她像克里希纳一样蓝 她有很多,很多手臂 每只手都有一个符号 |
| 102 | of the many tasks of women, a steering wheel, then a typewriter, a phone, a dust mop, there's | 女人的很多任务, 方向盘,然后打字机,电话,灰尘拖把, |
| 103 | a tear coming down her cheek, and she has a baby in her tummy. | 她的脸颊被撕裂 她肚子里有个孩子 |
| 104 | We were trying to say, no one can be Superwoman, that's the whole point, you can't do two full-time | 我们想说,没有人可以做超级女人, 这就是重点,你不能做两个全职 |
| 105 | And that's why men need to be equal in the home so women can be equal outside the home, | 这就是为什么男人需要在家里平等 这样妇女就可以在家庭之外平等, |
| 106 | it's why we need national systems of child care, and here it is still with us. | 这就是我们为什么需要国家儿童保育制度的原因,而现在它仍在我们身边。 |
| 107 | Over the years you've dated many prominent men, you have enjoyed a full social and sexually | 多年来,你约会了很多名人, 你享受了充分的社交和性生活 |
| 108 | liberated life, that was something that was once okay only for men. | 解放后的生活,这是曾经是好的 只有男人。 |
| 109 | Do you think there's still a double standard or do you think we're past that? | 你认为还是有双重标准 还是你认为我们已经过去了? |
| 110 | No, I think there still is a double standard and what worries me now when I'm in high schools | 不,我觉得现在还是有双重标准, 当我在高中的时候,我担心什么? |
| 111 | and colleges is that yes, true, there's much less emphasis on virginity and this is a good | 大学是,是的,真的, 有少得多强调 贞操,这是一个好 |
| 112 | thing because in my neighborhood, in Toledo, when I was growing up, if you weren't a virgin | 因为在我的附近,在托莱多, 当我长大,如果你不是处女 |
| 113 | you were fair game in terrible ways, if you got to be known as not a nice girl, so it | 你以可怕的方式公平游戏, 如果你必须被称为不是一个好女孩,所以它 |
| 114 | is a step forward, that's true, but what I see now is that young girls especially feel | 这是向前迈出的一步,这是真的, 但我现在看到的是,年轻女孩特别觉得 |
| 115 | they have to sexually service men, oral sex is huge now in very young groups, and I always | 他们不得不为男人提供性服务, 口交是巨大的 现在在非常年轻的群体, 我总是 |
| 116 | say to them, what are you getting out of it? | 对他们说,你得到什么? |
| 117 | Hello? | 有人吗? |
| 118 | It's still very, we still have a long | 还很长 |
| 119 | way to go, because it isn't about whether you do have sex or you don't have sex, it's | 要走的路,因为这不是 你是否真的有性或没有性, |
| 120 | about your own feelings, are you able to express yourself sexually in an autonomous, free, | 关于你自己的感受, 你能以自主,自由, |
| 121 | respectful way without danger? | 尊重的方式没有危险? |
| 122 | You were 66 when you married, you married David Bale, after years of questioning the | 你结婚时才66岁 你嫁给大卫·鲍尔 经过多年的质疑 |
| 123 | institution of marriage, what changed? | 婚姻制度,有什么变化? |
| 124 | Was it David Bale or? | 是大卫·鲍尔还是? |
| 125 | No, it was the institution of marriage. | 不,这是婚姻制度。 |
| 126 | If I had gotten married, I'm not saying that | 如果我结婚了,我不是说 |
| 127 | I knew this when I was in college, but if I had gotten married then and for many years | 我大学时就知道,但如果我结婚... ...然后结婚很多年 |
| 128 | afterwards I would have given up most of my civil rights, my name, I would have had to | 之后我会放弃大部分的公民权利,我的名字,我不得不 |
| 129 | go to court to get my own name back, my credit rating, my legal domicile, but by the time | 上法庭找回自己的名字 我的信用评级 合法住所 |
| 130 | I was 66 we had spent 30 years changing the laws, so actually you can now enter into an | 当时我66岁,我们花了30年时间 改变法律,所以你现在可以进入 |
| 131 | equal marriage. | 平等结婚。 |
| 132 | It's a different story when children arrive, because it's still very often | 孩子们来的时候 故事就不一样了 因为还是很常见 |
| 133 | unequal then, to put it mildly, that women take care of babies and little kids much more | 这么说来 女人要照顾孩子和孩子 |
| 134 | than men do, but from a legal point of view it's much more equal. | 但从法律的角度看,这比男人更平等 |
| 135 | So I guess this question is irrelevant, this next one, but I'll ask anyway, which is whether | 所以我想这个问题和下一个无关 但我还是会问的 |
| 136 | you have any regrets about having waited so long to get married? | 你后悔等了这么久才结婚吗? |
| 137 | No, no, the point is the ability to make the choice, as long as all women get married | 不,不,关键是能够做出选择 只要所有女人都结婚 |
| 138 | and all women have to, it's not a choice. | 而所有的女人必须这样做, 这不是一个选择。 |
| 139 | As you look back on your accomplishments, is there any one in particular that stands | 当你回顾你的成就时 有没有一个特别的 |
| 140 | out, anything you're most proud of achieving, if you had to pick one? | 如果你非得选一个,你最自豪的是什么? |
| 141 | I can tell you what makes me feel the most fulfilled and happy, and that is when someone | 我可以告诉你什么让我感到最满足和快乐, 那就是当某人 |
| 142 | comes up to me in a plane or on the street or wherever and tells me how their lives have | 在飞机上或街上或任何地方来找我 告诉我他们的生活如何 |
| 143 | changed because of the women's movement. | 因为女性运动而改变. |
| 144 | Because I'm recognizable I get this great enormous | 因为我看得出来,我得到了这个巨大的 |
| 145 | reward of hearing stories of how people's lives have changed, and at that moment when | 听到关于人们生活如何改变的故事 |
| 146 | I'm listening to that person tell me that, I often think to myself, you know, if only | 我听那个人说,我常常想自己,你知道,如果 |
| 147 | I had said this, it would have been enough. | 我说了,就够了 |
| 148 | If I had said this, it would have been enough. | 如果我这么说,那就足够了。 |
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