决战国际舆论场！泽连斯基全英文专访直接摊牌：西方若选择疲态，
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | Mr. President, thanks for sitting down with us today. | 主席先生,谢谢你今天同我们坐下来。 |
| 0:02 | Thank you so much that you reminded me what is the date. | 非常感谢你提醒我日期是什么 |
| 0:07 | You forgot. | 你忘记了 |
| 0:09 | I live in one day, a very long day, these years of the war. | 我活在一个很长的一天, 这些年的战争。 |
| 0:14 | So that's why. | 所以说 |
| 0:15 | So thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 0:16 | Thank you for coming. | 谢谢你能来 |
| 0:18 | It's been a bizarre couple of weeks here in Kyiv. | 在基辅,这几周都很奇怪 |
| 0:22 | It seems like so much of the life has changed so drastically, so quickly. | 生活似乎发生了如此巨大的变化 如此之快 |
| 0:26 | There's been these daytime joint attacks targeting supermarkets, targeting gas stations. | 这些日间联合袭击针对超市,加油站. |
展开字幕全文（531 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Mr. President, thanks for sitting down with us today. | 主席先生,谢谢你今天同我们坐下来。 |
| 2 | Thank you so much that you reminded me what is the date. | 非常感谢你提醒我日期是什么 |
| 3 | You forgot. | 你忘记了 |
| 4 | I live in one day, a very long day, these years of the war. | 我活在一个很长的一天, 这些年的战争。 |
| 5 | So that's why. | 所以说 |
| 6 | So thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 7 | Thank you for coming. | 谢谢你能来 |
| 8 | It's been a bizarre couple of weeks here in Kyiv. | 在基辅,这几周都很奇怪 |
| 9 | It seems like so much of the life has changed so drastically, so quickly. | 生活似乎发生了如此巨大的变化 如此之快 |
| 10 | There's been these daytime joint attacks targeting supermarkets, targeting gas stations. | 这些日间联合袭击针对超市,加油站. |
| 11 | Why do you think that Russia has chosen this moment to escalate? | 你为何认为俄罗斯选择这个时刻来升级? |
| 12 | Pressure. | 压力 |
| 13 | Pressure absolutely try to make accounts. | 压力完全试图做帐。 |
| 14 | It's a new strategy of Russian aggression, of Putin, his war against us. | 这是俄国侵略的新策略 普京对我们的战争 |
| 15 | So these last weeks, you see this is big massive attacks on Kyiv, of course, to destroy society, | 所以,这几个星期,你看 这是大规模袭击基辅, 当然,摧毁社会, |
| 16 | to divide people because people on the front, they have to defend. | 因为前线的人, 他们必须捍卫。 |
| 17 | And of course, to defend our life, our independence, our country, and society, civilians are very | 当然,为了捍卫我们的生命, 我们的独立, 我们的国家, 和社会,平民非常 |
| 18 | different. | 不一样 |
| 19 | Of course, people are tired during five years full scale war. | 当然,人们在五年的全面战争中感到疲惫。 |
| 20 | Are you ever getting any sleep these days? | 你最近有没有睡过觉? |
| 21 | No, no, yes. | 不,不,对。 |
| 22 | But I'm OK. | 但我没事 |
| 23 | I mean, we're here to speak not about, just not about me, how much time I have, no, not | 我的意思是,我们在这里不是说, 只是不说我, 我有多少时间,没有,没有 |
| 24 | enough sleep. | 睡够了 |
| 25 | I mean, it's each day and of course, it's a little bit difficult, yes, even for me. | 我的意思是,它的每一天 当然, 这是一个有点困难, 是的,甚至对我来说。 |
| 26 | Yes, because I'm OK with this. | 是的,因为我不介意这个。 |
| 27 | Yes, but a lot of the changes in the strategy that they begin to make chaos during all the | 是的,但是很多改变 策略,他们开始制造混乱 在所有这些 |
| 28 | they attack us, first of all, then they do absolutely not possible, try to do not possible | 他们攻击我们,首先, 然后他们绝对不可能,试图不可能 |
| 29 | for children go to school. | 儿童上学。 |
| 30 | You think it's a strategy to interrupt daily life here? | 你觉得这是打乱这里日常生活的策略吗? |
| 31 | It's absolutely a strategy. | 这绝对是一个策略。 |
| 32 | Yes, they use each 30 minutes or each from 30 minutes to two hours drones, not massive | 是的,他们使用每30分钟或每30分钟到2小时的无人机,而不是大规模 |
| 33 | drones. | 无人机 |
| 34 | So night massive, then from the very morning, they begin to use drones, five, 10, 20. | 所以从早上开始 他们开始使用无人机 5、10、20 |
| 35 | For us, it's nothing but each 30 minutes, 40 minutes, one hour. | 对我们来说,只有每30分钟40分钟1小时 |
| 36 | Of course, children can go to school, can normally study, it's been that people. | 当然,孩子们可以去上学, 通常可以学习, 一直是那些人。 |
| 37 | So it's like how the chain, yes, strategy of this chain attacks. | 所以这就像链子,是的, 这个链子攻击的策略。 |
| 38 | Many of the attacks you're describing have targeted not only Ukraine, but there have | 你描述的许多攻击 不仅针对乌克兰,而且有 |
| 39 | also been incidents of drones falling in Lithuania, in Romania, seems like these attacks are escalating | 在立陶宛, 在罗马尼亚, |
| 40 | beyond Ukraine's borders. | 乌克兰境外。 |
| 41 | Just this weekend, a train was hit shortly after foreign dignitaries were leaving Ukraine. | 就在这个周末,一列火车在外国政要离开乌克兰后不久被击中. |
| 42 | Have you received any intelligence to suggest that that attack was on purpose, that Russia | 你收到任何情报 表明这次袭击是故意的 俄罗斯 |
| 43 | was trying to send a message there? | 刚才想传达一个信息吗? |
| 44 | So in Moldova, my presidential jet was there. | 在摩尔多瓦,我的总统专机在那里。 |
| 45 | And that's why they attacked Moldova. | 这就是为什么他们攻击摩尔多瓦。 |
| 46 | They used airspace of Moldova. | 它们使用摩尔多瓦领空。 |
| 47 | So they attacked Moldovan airspace purposefully because they were in the air. | 他们故意攻击摩尔多瓦领空,因为他们在空中。 |
| 48 | Maybe they didn't want to attack me personally, but they wanted to. | 也许他们不想亲自攻击我 但他们想攻击我 |
| 49 | They wanted to scare you. | 他们想吓唬你 |
| 50 | Yeah, in any way, it's understandable. | 是啊,无论如何,这是可以理解的。 |
| 51 | Between us, we didn't share it with media, yes. | 我们之间没有跟媒体分享,是的 |
| 52 | But when we went back home, again, through Kishinev, they did the same. | 但是,当我们回家, 再次,通过基希涅夫, 他们做了同样的。 |
| 53 | They did the same thing when you were coming back. | 你回来的时候他们也一样 |
| 54 | They sent another drone into Moldovan airspace. | 他们又派出无人机进入摩尔多瓦领空. |
| 55 | Absolutely. | 当然 |
| 56 | Drone or two drones, doesn't matter. | 无人机或两架无人机,无所谓. |
| 57 | Yes, it's not a problem. | 是的,这不是一个问题。 |
| 58 | I mean, it's not a big problem. | 我的意思是,这不是一个大问题。 |
| 59 | So everybody's OK, alive. | 所以每个人都没事,活着。 |
| 60 | And they made the same the same strategy was on the rain. | 他们做了同样的策略 在雨中。 |
| 61 | Maybe they didn't know that some Americans had been there or maybe | 也许他们不知道一些美国人在那里 或者也许 |
| 62 | oppositely, they knew because I don't trust them. | 相反,他们知道 因为我不相信他们。 |
| 63 | I think that they knew. | 我想他们知道 |
| 64 | And that's why Europeans, Americans, big delegations | 这就是为什么欧洲人,美国人,大代表团 |
| 65 | been in this train and they attacked. | 在火车上,他们攻击。 |
| 66 | So they attacked railway near close, but they do this. | 所以他们攻击了近距离的铁路,但他们这样做。 |
| 67 | They did it often. | 他们经常这样做。 |
| 68 | Moldova, Romania, sometimes in Poland, too. | 摩尔多瓦,罗马尼亚,有时也出现在波兰. |
| 69 | I mean, this is it's a process. | 我的意思是,这是一个过程。 |
| 70 | It's a process that they show the power. | 这是他们展示力量的过程。 |
| 71 | And you understand that when they show this power, absolutely not a | 你明白当他们展示这种力量时 绝对不是 |
| 72 | degraded power, nobody answered them during this election. | 在这场选举期间, |
| 73 | I'm sure he will show power for his internal society, | 我相信他会为他的内部社会展示力量 |
| 74 | knowing that nobody will answer except Ukraine, of course. | 当然,只有乌克兰知道没有人会回答。 |
| 75 | So he'll continue to test those European. | 所以他将继续测试那些欧洲人。 |
| 76 | Absolutely. | 当然 |
| 77 | He will test the European. | 他会测试欧洲人 |
| 78 | Because at the very moment, I'm sure that he will decide what to do, | 因为此刻 我相信他会决定怎么做 |
| 79 | what his strategy will be, what he has for today. | 他的策略会是什么,他今天有什么。 |
| 80 | Yes. | 对 |
| 81 | So they will lose this year. | 所以他们今年会输 |
| 82 | We think three hundred thousand people killed. | 我们认为30万人被杀。 |
| 83 | It means that they will have a million killed people for five years of the war. | 这意味着,在战争的五年里,他们将有100万人丧生。 |
| 84 | One million killed. | 一百万被杀. |
| 85 | So you think that Vladimir Putin does not want to end this war | 所以你认为弗拉基米尔·普京不想结束这场战争 |
| 86 | because he's scared of what his military might do if he ended it. | 因为他害怕他的军队会做什么 如果他结束了它。 |
| 87 | Between us, between us, between us. | 我们之间 我们之间 我们之间 |
| 88 | I think he wants to occupy us. | 我想他想占领我们 |
| 89 | But when you really can estimate that it's unbelievable for today, | 但是,当你真的可以估计 这是难以置信的今天, |
| 90 | unbelievable, not impossible. | 难以置信,不是不可能 |
| 91 | Absolutely. | 当然 |
| 92 | Of course, he wants to find some way | 当然,他想想办法 |
| 93 | how to find a way of de-escalation. | 如何找到一种降级的方法。 |
| 94 | But of course, he works on it to divide society, divide EU, divide Europe, | 当然,他致力于分裂社会,分裂欧盟,分裂欧洲, |
| 95 | divide Europe and us, divide Europe and the United States | 分裂欧洲和我们 分裂欧洲和美国 |
| 96 | and divide, of course, Trump and me. | 当然还有特朗普和我 |
| 97 | Of course, for him is very important. | 当然,对他来说很重要。 |
| 98 | Yesterday, President Trump announced an energy ceasefire. | 昨天,川普总统宣布能源停火. |
| 99 | He said that Ukraine would stop striking Russian energy | 他说乌克兰将停止打击俄国能源 |
| 100 | and that Russia would stop striking Ukrainian energy targets. | 俄罗斯将停止打击乌克兰的能源目标。 |
| 101 | But overnight, there were drone attacks on both sides. | 但一夜之间,双方都发生了无人机袭击. |
| 102 | So this is all very confusing. | 所以这一切都很混乱。 |
| 103 | It helped me understand. | 它帮助我理解。 |
| 104 | Is there is there an energy ceasefire right now? | 现在有能源停火吗? |
| 105 | No. | 没有 |
| 106 | First of all, you have to understand our tactics, our tactics to respond. | 首先,你必须理解我们的战术,我们的战术来回应. |
| 107 | When? | 什么时候? |
| 108 | When we can. | 当我们可以。 |
| 109 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 110 | Because it's our principles, because Putin doesn't respect, doesn't see | 因为这是我们的原则,因为普京不尊重,看不到 |
| 111 | and will not even think how to negotiate with the weak people. | 也不会想怎样和弱者谈判 |
| 112 | He will eat us and that's all. | 他会吃掉我们 就这样 |
| 113 | That's why we respond. | 故应之. |
| 114 | We never attack first. | 我们从不先进攻 |
| 115 | Then we said, when Steven Jarrett been here and they raised this topic, | 然后我们说,当史蒂芬・雅雷特在这里 他们提出这个话题, |
| 116 | what President Trump mentioned in his messages. | 特朗普总统在留言中提到的内容。 |
| 117 | So they said about, let's think about these refineries | 所以他们说,让我们想想这些炼油厂 |
| 118 | and other energy resources. | 以及其他能源资源。 |
| 119 | I said, look, we are ready for energy ceasefire, | 我说,你看,我们已经准备好 能源停火, |
| 120 | but you have to understand what does it mean for us. | 但你必须明白这对我们意味着什么 |
| 121 | For Putin, energy is to sell oil, is to sell gas. | 对普京来说,能源是出售石油,就是出售天然气。 |
| 122 | For us, energy is to have electricity for our people. | 对我们来说,能源就是为我们的人民提供电力。 |
| 123 | That's all. | 就这样 |
| 124 | And gas. | 及诸气. |
| 125 | That's all. | 就这样 |
| 126 | So my message was next during our meeting when they came to Kiev. | 所以,我的消息是 在我们开会的时候, 当他们来到基辅。 |
| 127 | I said, if Russians are ready for energy ceasefire, | 我说,如果俄罗斯人准备好能源停火, |
| 128 | it's been no attacks on energy anyway, using anything. | 它没有攻击 能源反正,使用任何东西。 |
| 129 | But if you negotiate anything, it's been that you are showing your goodwill | 但是,如果你谈判什么, 它一直在显示你的善意 |
| 130 | or political will, political will to end the war. | 或政治意愿,结束战争的政治意愿。 |
| 131 | Do you think that Putin is capable of showing you goodwill? | 你觉得普京能向你展示善意吗? |
| 132 | I don't know. | 师曰. |
| 133 | Look, he's afraid of his society. | 你看,他害怕他的社会。 |
| 134 | That's all for today. | 今天就到这里吧 |
| 135 | He understands that Trump is near internal questions | 他明白川普的内在问题很近 |
| 136 | and mid-term elections, that he will be busy. | 以及中期选举,以便他忙碌。 |
| 137 | Then they have a really big challenge with Iranians. | 他们对伊朗人的挑战很大 |
| 138 | It's true. | 这是真的。 |
| 139 | Yes, it's true. | 是的,这是真的。 |
| 140 | And he understands that there is some... | 他明白有些... |
| 141 | They are defocusing. | 他们正在分散注意力。 |
| 142 | Americans are defocusing. | 美国人正在分心。 |
| 143 | And he understands he uses this opportunity and uses it to pressure on us. | 他明白他利用这个机会 对我们施加压力 |
| 144 | Yes, as I said, to minimize support from other partners. | 是的,正如我所说,尽量减少其他伙伴的支持。 |
| 145 | He's taking advantage of the fact that Americans are distracted with Iran | 他利用了美国人对伊朗的分心 |
| 146 | to target Ukraine more. | 以乌克兰为目标。 |
| 147 | Absolutely. | 当然 |
| 148 | It's true. | 这是真的。 |
| 149 | Because you can see... | 因为你可以看到... |
| 150 | It's a fact. | 这是事实 |
| 151 | If you look at the number of different kinds of defending things, | 如果你看看不同种类的防御物的数量 |
| 152 | like patriot systems, like other... | 像爱国者系统, 像其他... |
| 153 | We need missiles for F-16 and for NASAMs, also air defense systems, | 我们需要F-16和NASAM的导弹 以及防空系统 |
| 154 | not ballistic, but very important. | 不是弹道,但非常重要。 |
| 155 | All these systems are both defending. | 所有这些系统都在防御。 |
| 156 | And if you will look at the number, the number decreased. | 如果你看看数字, 数字减少。 |
| 157 | And, of course, we understand where is it. | 当然,我们理解它在哪里。 |
| 158 | It's not in our country. | 不在我国. |
| 159 | It's in other countries. | 于彼诸国. |
| 160 | In the Middle East. | 于中东. |
| 161 | It's true. | 这是真的。 |
| 162 | We know the number what the Middle East has. | 我们知道中东的数量。 |
| 163 | And we know what we can have from the United States. | 我们知道我们能从美国得到什么。 |
| 164 | Putin, he's using this situation. | 普京,他利用了这种情况。 |
| 165 | That's why I said he afraids only his society for today. | 所以我说他今天只怕自己的社会 |
| 166 | And, of course, he has problems, these problems. | 当然,他有问题,这些问题。 |
| 167 | Then minus a lot of money. | 然后减去很多钱。 |
| 168 | And there is... | 还有... |
| 169 | I know they have problems with social packages | 我知道他们有问题 社交套餐 |
| 170 | and social support for people, some humanitarian projects, | 社会支助,一些人道主义项目, |
| 171 | and they say they don't have money for this. | 他们说他们没有钱做这个 |
| 172 | Because he spent all the money on this war. | 因为他把所有的钱都花在这场战争上. |
| 173 | He spent... | 他花费了... |
| 174 | I can tell you, the price of this year, the price of the war. | 我可以告诉你,今年的价格,战争的代价。 |
| 175 | We want to spend 1.57. | 我们要花1.57美元。 |
| 176 | But we have now deficit with 27, so I don't have it. | 但是我们现在有27的赤字,所以我没有。 |
| 177 | I don't have this for internal production of weapon. | 我没有这个用来生产武器 |
| 178 | So, for today, it's one sorter, yes? | 所以,今天,它是一个排序器,是吗? |
| 179 | One sorter billion. | 分拣十亿. |
| 180 | He spends 300 sorter. | 他花了300个分拣机。 |
| 181 | So he's spending three times as much on this war as you are. | 所以他在这场战争上花费的比你多三倍 |
| 182 | Two and seven, two and eight. | 二七两八. |
| 183 | Yes, almost three times. | 对,差不多三次了 |
| 184 | This is where we are. | 这就是我们的位置。 |
| 185 | And this is very expensive, of course. | 当然,这是非常昂贵的。 |
| 186 | If it's so expensive and the Russian people are so unhappy with it, | 如果这么贵,俄国人也这么不高兴 |
| 187 | why do you think he's continuing this war? | 你觉得他为什么要继续这场战争? |
| 188 | Not enough. | 还不够 |
| 189 | As I said, not enough bravery from their people. | 如我所说,他们的人民不够勇敢。 |
| 190 | They're not brave against Putin, you know, | 他们不勇敢对抗普京,你知道, |
| 191 | that when they went to the streets, it was at the beginning of this war. | 当他们走上街头, 这是在这场战争的开始。 |
| 192 | They just took people and pushed them to the prisons. | 他们只是把人 推到监狱。 |
| 193 | That's it. | 就这样 |
| 194 | Nothing. | 没什么 |
| 195 | Yeah, it's not like in Europe, in Ukraine, in the United States, | 不像在欧洲、乌克兰、美国 |
| 196 | when people can come and say they like it, not like it, | 当人们可以来说 他们喜欢它,而不是喜欢它, |
| 197 | and they will not be in the prison. | 他们不会在监狱里。 |
| 198 | I mean, mostly. | 我的意思是,大多数。 |
| 199 | Yes, there are some cases in some countries, but mostly, | 是的,有些国家有这种情况,但大多数情况下, |
| 200 | no, they will not be in the prison for these, | 不,他们不会因为这些而在监狱里, |
| 201 | because they have all these rights. | 因为他们拥有所有这些权利。 |
| 202 | Yeah, and that's why he's continuing, | 是啊,这就是为什么他继续, |
| 203 | because he doesn't feel the pressure from his society. | 因为他没有感受到社会的压力 |
| 204 | It's true, not enough. | 这是真的,还不够。 |
| 205 | But he will feel it, of course. | 但他当然会感觉到的 |
| 206 | It began already. | 已经开始了 |
| 207 | And as I said, I think the main reason that he's afraid of his life, | 正如我所说 我认为他害怕生命的主要原因 |
| 208 | he can't stop, because he thinks, and I know that it's true, | 他不能停止,因为他认为, 我知道这是真的, |
| 209 | I know that there are some people around him, | 我知道他身边有人 |
| 210 | and then they speak about it, yes, we know from intelligence, yes, | 然后他们谈论它, 是的,我们从情报,是的, |
| 211 | they really think that if they will stop, just stop now, | 他们真的认为 如果他们会停止, 只是停止现在, |
| 212 | because it's not a victory. | 因为它不是胜利。 |
| 213 | It's really not a victory. | 这真的不是胜利 |
| 214 | It's absolutely opposite thing, yes, for them. | 对他们来说,这是完全相反的。 |
| 215 | So if he will stay at this point, | 所以如果他现在留下来 |
| 216 | he's afraid that the soldiers will come back, | 他害怕士兵们回来 |
| 217 | will be angry, absolutely. | 绝对会生气 |
| 218 | And against him, I'm sure he has such precedent, | 对他来说 我相信他有这样的先例 |
| 219 | if you remember with Wagner's, you remember, | 如果你记得瓦格纳,你记得, |
| 220 | but it was what? | 但这是什么? |
| 221 | What it was, 5,000, but one million, | 是什么,五千块,但一百万块 |
| 222 | if one million come back, so it's very loud. | 如果一百万回来,所以声音很大。 |
| 223 | Your intelligence sources tell you that you think he's expecting | 你的线人告诉你,你认为他在等待 |
| 224 | a mutiny if he were to end this war, a revolt of his people. | 如果他要结束这场战争 他的人民就会起义 |
| 225 | I'm sure it can be, and I'm sure that he has such information. | 我敢肯定,这是可以的, 我相信他有这样的信息。 |
| 226 | He's scared of what his people will do. | 他害怕自己人会做什么 |
| 227 | Of course, of course, of course. | 当然 当然了 |
| 228 | What you're describing, none of that sounds like | 你所描述的, 没有一个听起来像 |
| 229 | Vladimir Putin wants peace anytime soon, but this weekend... | 弗拉基米尔·普京希望尽快实现和平,但本周末... |
| 230 | We have to understand. | 我们必须明白 |
| 231 | He doesn't want a peace, but he understands | 他不想和谈 但他明白 |
| 232 | that he has to find a way how to stop it | 他必须想办法阻止它 |
| 233 | in a way of victory for his society. | 为了他的社会赢得胜利 |
| 234 | You understand, yes? | 你明白吗? |
| 235 | How do you think he could convince him of that? | 你觉得他怎么能说服他? |
| 236 | No, he wants to occupy Donbass. | 不 他想占领唐巴斯 |
| 237 | He thinks that his goal, minimum goal, | 他认为他的目标,最小的目标, |
| 238 | is to occupy Donbass totally, and he sells to his people, | 完全占领唐巴斯, 他卖给他的人民, |
| 239 | and using the information from his intelligence, | 利用他的情报 |
| 240 | military, especially military staff, | 军事,特别是军事参谋 |
| 241 | that we need one month, then two months, three months, | 我们需要一个月,然后两个月,三个月, |
| 242 | then half a year to occupy Donbass. | 然后半年占领唐巴斯 |
| 243 | Now we know the last information | 现在我们知道最后的信息 |
| 244 | what they had with, I don't know, | 他们拥有的一切,我不知道, |
| 245 | with some representatives from the United States, | 与来自美国的一些代表, |
| 246 | maybe from some intelligence where they had meeting. | 也许从一些情报 他们开会。 |
| 247 | In Moscow, I know that they said | 在莫斯科,我知道他们说 |
| 248 | that he needs to occupy Donbass half a year, | 他需要占领唐巴斯半年, |
| 249 | and I know that some people told him, | 我知道有人告诉他, |
| 250 | look, we think our estimation, | 听着 我们认为我们的估计 |
| 251 | you will need minimum two years, or one year and a half. | 您至少需要两年或一年半的时间。 |
| 252 | I mean, but we don't know what they said, these guys. | 我的意思是,但我们不知道 他们说什么,这些人。 |
| 253 | And they said truth, they don't know. | 他们说了实话,他们不知道 |
| 254 | They said truth, they don't know, | 他们说了实话,他们不知道 |
| 255 | but they can look at the kilometers, | 但他们可以看那公里, |
| 256 | what was occupied by him during last two years. | 在过去两年里他占有的 |
| 257 | Sorry, it was occupied less than he wants now. | 抱歉,他现在没有工作了 |
| 258 | So this is a difficult situation | 所以这是个困难的局面 |
| 259 | that his estimation is not right. | 他的猜测是不正确的。 |
| 260 | You're referring to the meeting | 你指的是会议 |
| 261 | where CIA Director John Ratcliffe was in Moscow? | 中情局局长约翰・拉特克利夫在莫斯科? |
| 262 | Yeah, I think so. | 是的,我想是这样。 |
| 263 | And Putin said that he wants to occupy it in six months, | 普京说他想在六个月内占领 |
| 264 | and they told him, no, it'll take two years. | 他们告诉他,不,这需要两年。 |
| 265 | I think so, I was not during this meeting, | 我想是的,我当时不是在开会的时候 |
| 266 | but I know that he said again that, | 但我知道他再说一遍, |
| 267 | no, for him it's not the problem. | 不,对他来说,这不是问题所在 |
| 268 | And his people said, Ratcliffe, | 他的宗族说:拉特克利夫, |
| 269 | I'm not sure that Ratcliffe has meeting with Putin. | 我不确定拉特克利夫是否与普京会面. |
| 270 | I'm not sure, I don't know. | 我不确定,我也不知道,我还不知道 |
| 271 | I think these people meet with his people, | 我想这些人和他的人见面了 |
| 272 | intelligence with intelligence. | 情报与情报。 |
| 273 | Yeah, that's it. | 是的,就是这样。 |
| 274 | But I know that they shared with President Trump, | 但我知道他们和特朗普总统一样 |
| 275 | they shared to some Europeans, | 他们与一些欧洲人分享, |
| 276 | Kazakh leaders or some from Asia, | 哈萨克族领袖或亚洲人 |
| 277 | they always shared that they will occupy Donbass | 他们总是说他们会占领唐巴斯 |
| 278 | in some moments. | 在某些时刻。 |
| 279 | And they postponed it, side storms several times. | 他们推迟了几次, 侧面风暴。 |
| 280 | And that's why I said that the last time they said, | 这就是为什么我说, 他们最后一次说, |
| 281 | they think that in 2027, they will finish. | 他们认为在2027年,他们会完成。 |
| 282 | You have long said that Ukraine | 你早就说过乌克兰 |
| 283 | will not withdraw from Donbass. | 也不会从唐巴斯撤出 |
| 284 | Has that ever changed in your thinking? | 你的想法有变吗? |
| 285 | Would you ever be willing to concede, | 你愿意承认吗? |
| 286 | to surrender any of that territory? | 交出任何领土? |
| 287 | No, no, you can't just move back. | 不,不,你不能只移动回来。 |
| 288 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 289 | I will tell you. | 我告诉你。 |
| 290 | So what is the most important thing? | 那么什么是最重要的东西? |
| 291 | Peace. | 安静 |
| 292 | To achieve peace, you need to be strong. | 为了实现和平,你必须坚强。 |
| 293 | To be strong is to have unity in your country. | 强壮就是在贵国实现统一. |
| 294 | But as I said, unanimity, your country, | 但是正如我所说,一致,你的国家, |
| 295 | Europe and United States, of course, | 欧美当然 |
| 296 | you can be more, I mean this, not flexible. | 你可以做更多,我的意思是, 不灵活。 |
| 297 | I mean this, but you can think what to do | 我是认真的,但你能想出办法 |
| 298 | with one problem, with another, | 一个问题 另一个问题 |
| 299 | to decide one problem and another. | 以决定一个问题和另一个问题。 |
| 300 | So, I mean, and that's why you can't lose this unity. | 所以,我的意思是, 这就是为什么你不能失去这种团结。 |
| 301 | And this is important. | 这很重要。 |
| 302 | When you will back from Donbass, | 当你从唐巴斯回来时 |
| 303 | you will use immediately the unity in your country | 您将立即使用祖国的团结 |
| 304 | because all the soldiers are against, the army against. | 因为所有士兵都反对 军队反对 |
| 305 | I will tell you why. | 我会告诉你为什么。 |
| 306 | Because nobody can guarantee you | 因为没人能保证你 |
| 307 | that if you move back, it will be this present | 如果你退后,它会是这个礼物 |
| 308 | about one million people. | 大约一百万人。 |
| 309 | Because he will not lose these people, | 因为他不会失去这些人 |
| 310 | but we'll take the territory. | 但我们会占领领地 |
| 311 | And nobody can guarantee you that he will not continue. | 没有人能保证他不会继续下去 |
| 312 | Because what does it mean? | 因为那是什么意思? |
| 313 | Putin gives guarantees. | 普京提供保证. |
| 314 | For who? | 为了谁? |
| 315 | Nobody trust. | 没有人相信。 |
| 316 | Even Americans, when they say public one thing, | 即使是美国人,当他们公开说一件事, |
| 317 | but from another thing, I'm sure they are smart guys. | 但从另外一件事, 我相信他们是聪明的家伙。 |
| 318 | They understand that you can't trust him. | 他们明白你不能信任他 |
| 319 | You have to negotiate with them those way | 你必须和他们谈判那样 |
| 320 | not to depend on just words and trust or not trust. | 不依赖公正的话语和信任或不信任。 |
| 321 | Of course, not nobody trust. | 当然,没有人相信。 |
| 322 | How many percent? | 多少个? |
| 323 | 100%. | 百分百的 百分百的 百分百的 |
| 324 | It's not about trust. | 这不是关于信任。 |
| 325 | It's about our surviving. | 是关于我们的生存。 |
| 326 | This is the most strong lines of defendings in Ukraine. | 这是乌克兰最强大的防线. |
| 327 | We can't give him this a gift | 我们不能给他这个礼物 |
| 328 | because it will be a ticket for him without money | 因为这是他没有钱的门票 |
| 329 | to continue occupation. | 继续占领。 |
| 330 | And that's why we're afraid. | 故曰惊惧. |
| 331 | The problem that we want to negotiate with Russia, | 我们要与俄罗斯谈判的问题, |
| 332 | we always think what they will say. | 我们总是想着他们会说什么。 |
| 333 | Yes, from one side, it's diplomatic way of life, | 是的,从一方面来说,这是外交生活方式, |
| 334 | but it's not with Russia. | 但它不是与俄罗斯。 |
| 335 | What is important for them? | 对他们有什么重要? |
| 336 | I said, what is important for us? | 我说,什么对我们很重要? |
| 337 | And what is important for you, Europe? | 什么对你很重要,欧洲? |
| 338 | Because this one million will come back | 因为这百万会回来的 |
| 339 | and he will send them somewhere. | 他会把他们送到某个地方 |
| 340 | These one million soldiers, he will send somewhere. | 这百万士兵,他会派别的地方去 |
| 341 | You will see. | 你会明白的 |
| 342 | But if we signed it, that we are in EU, | 但是如果我们签了它, 我们是在欧盟, |
| 343 | and in EU and not NATO, sorry, what do you want from us? | 而在欧盟,而不是北约, 对不起,你想从我们这里得到什么? |
| 344 | He will send one million. | 他会送一百万的 |
| 345 | And if Ukraine is in NATO, | 如果乌克兰在北约 |
| 346 | this is first of all guarantees for Ukraine. | 这首先是对乌克兰的保证。 |
| 347 | Ukraine needs to be in NATO | 乌克兰需要加入北约 |
| 348 | for this peace settlement to happen. | 实现和平解决。 |
| 349 | I think yes. | 我觉得是的。 |
| 350 | This is only, I mean, it's not enough. | 这只是,我的意思是,这还不够。 |
| 351 | Security guarantees for Ukraine, | 乌克兰的安全保证, |
| 352 | it's where I said EU because it's open market, | 我之所以说欧盟是因为市场开放 |
| 353 | it's economic guarantees, | 经济保障, |
| 354 | that it's reconstruction of Ukraine | 乌克兰的重建 |
| 355 | when EU will help us because it's a part of EU. | 当欧盟会帮助我们,因为它是欧盟的一部分。 |
| 356 | Yes, then it's understandable the relations | 是的,那么这是可以理解的关系 |
| 357 | because we are all one family, European family. | 因为我们都是一个家庭 欧洲家庭 |
| 358 | Then security guarantees, it's money for reconstruction. | 然后是安全担保,这是重建的钱。 |
| 359 | I mean, this also countries which are out of EU | 我的意思是,这也 国家 退出欧盟 |
| 360 | will spend money, will invest, | 将花钱,投资, |
| 361 | and their businesses will come. | 他们的生意将来临。 |
| 362 | It's good, win-win. | 好,双赢。 |
| 363 | And also, or first, our army, strong army. | 还有,或者说,首先,我们的军队,强大的军队。 |
| 364 | But we need weapon for this army. | 但我们需要这支军队的武器。 |
| 365 | We need financing for this army. | 我们需要这支军队的资金 |
| 366 | More simple to take us in NATO | 更简单一点,带我们去北约 |
| 367 | because NATO needs us. | 因为北约需要我们 |
| 368 | The most strong country in Europe, it's Ukrainian army. | 欧洲最强大的国家是乌克兰军队. |
| 369 | NATO needs us. | 北约需要我们。 |
| 370 | It's been almost a year since last November | 去年十一月已经快一年了 |
| 371 | when the Trump administration put forward a peace proposal | 当川普政府提出和平提案时 |
| 372 | that most analysts said was very aggressive in its terms, | 大部分分析家都说 说起来非常激进 |
| 373 | what would be required of Ukraine. | 乌克兰需要什么? |
| 374 | It included territorial concessions in the East, | 它包括东部的领土特许权, |
| 375 | caps on military, elections here. | 军队的上限,选举在这里。 |
| 376 | Are there any compromises | 有没有妥协 |
| 377 | that you weren't willing to make then | 你当时并不想做 |
| 378 | that you've now changed your mind | 你改变主意了 |
| 379 | and aren't willing to make now? | 现在又不愿意做? |
| 380 | Always, elections, I said already. | 总是,选举,我已经说过了。 |
| 381 | Look, if the idea of Russia or the idea of Americans | 你看,如果俄罗斯的想法 或美国人的想法 |
| 382 | is to give something good, something sweet for Putin | 给普丁一些好东西 |
| 383 | is to change the president, | 换掉总统 |
| 384 | I said, look, let's give us, stop the war, | 我说,你看,让我们,停止战争, |
| 385 | give us ceasefire for several months. | 给我们几个月的停火 |
| 386 | During this month, we have to find a way | 在这个月里,我们必须想办法 |
| 387 | how to stop the war and do elections. | 如何阻止战争和进行选举。 |
| 388 | So elections, you want elections as soon as the war ends. | 所以选举,你想要选举 一旦战争结束。 |
| 389 | I'm ready to do it tomorrow. | 我准备好明天做它。 |
| 390 | But if we have the war, you can't do it | 但是,如果我们有战争, 你不能这样做 |
| 391 | according not only to constitution, the law, election law, | 根据宪法、法律、选举法, |
| 392 | according to the security, first of all, | 根据安全,首先, |
| 393 | people, children can't go to school. | 孩子们不能上学 |
| 394 | How you want to make elections? | 你想怎样选举? |
| 395 | What elections? | 什么选举? |
| 396 | How to make elections | 如何举行选举 |
| 397 | with the nine million people who are abroad? | 与九百万 在国外的人? |
| 398 | Nine million, usually 500,000 abroad, | 九百万, 通常50万国外, |
| 399 | they voted, something like this. | 他们投票,像这样 |
| 400 | Maybe 500, maybe a little bit more, but nine million. | 也许500,也许多一点, 但900万。 |
| 401 | And what to do with the people | 和如何对待人民 |
| 402 | who are temporary or live in temporary occupied territories? | 谁是临时的或居住在临时被占领土? |
| 403 | Will they vote? | 他们会投票吗? |
| 404 | How they will vote? | 他们怎么投票? |
| 405 | Who will control their voting? | 谁来控制他们的投票? |
| 406 | I mean, there are Russian soldiers there. | 我的意思是,有俄罗斯士兵在那里。 |
| 407 | How to do all these things? | 如何做这些事情? |
| 408 | The arguments that you're making, | 你的论点, |
| 409 | most Ukrainians agree with them. | 大多数乌克兰人同意他们的观点。 |
| 410 | Most Ukrainians think there shouldn't be elections. | 大多数乌克兰人认为不应该有选举. |
| 411 | Many independent election analysts have said | 许多独立的选举分析家说: |
| 412 | that it's somewhat impossible while the war's going on. | 战争还在持续,这是不可能的 |
| 413 | But there are still people in your government | 但你们政府里还有人 |
| 414 | or who have left your government recently, | 或者最近离开你的政府的人 |
| 415 | including former Minister of Defense, | 包括前国防部长, |
| 416 | Mikhailo Fedorov, who have called for elections. | 要求选举的米哈伊洛·费多罗夫. |
| 417 | What do you think prompted them | 你觉得是什么促使他们 |
| 418 | to make those calls for elections? | 要求选举? |
| 419 | They want to be in politics. | 他们想参政. |
| 420 | I think it's a mistake. | 我认为这是一个错误。 |
| 421 | During the war, peace is number one. | 战争期间,和平为第一. |
| 422 | Politics is even not number two, even for politicians. | 政治甚至不是第二,甚至对政治家来说。 |
| 423 | It's number 10. | 是十号 |
| 424 | For people, it's number 100. | 对于人们来说,这是100号。 |
| 425 | The priorities are, and other priorities, | 优先事项和其他优先事项 |
| 426 | how to survive, how to live, | 如何生存, 如何生活, |
| 427 | how to, I mean, how to go to school. | 如何,我的意思是,如何去上学。 |
| 428 | As I said, what to do with this? | 如我所说,如何处理这个? |
| 429 | What to do with all of this? | 这一切怎么办? |
| 430 | Try not to lose your moral. | 尽量不要失去你的道德。 |
| 431 | At the same, try, yes, tight, but try to be strong | 同样的,尝试,是的,紧, 但尝试坚强 |
| 432 | as much as possible for you, of course. | 当然,尽可能多为你。 |
| 433 | Because if the soldiers will think that all five years | 因为如果士兵们认为这五年 |
| 434 | we stay here and moral is decreasing, | 我们呆在这里,道德正在下降, |
| 435 | I mean, it's a problem. | 我的意思是,这是一个问题。 |
| 436 | I want to end here by talking a little bit | 我想在这里说几句 |
| 437 | about your diplomatic discussions with the US. | 关于你与美国的外交讨论 |
| 438 | There was an event here in Kiev | 基辅有个事件 |
| 439 | where Jared Kushner was speaking online, | 贾里德·库什纳在网上讲话的地方 |
| 440 | and he said at one moment that Vladimir Putin wants peace, | 他说弗拉基米尔·普京希望和平, |
| 441 | that he believes that Putin wants peace. | 他认为普京希望和平。 |
| 442 | Do you believe that? | 你相信吗? |
| 443 | Why do you think that Kushner thinks that? | 为什么库什纳会这么想? |
| 444 | Well, I believe that Jared and Steve, | 我相信贾里德和史蒂夫 |
| 445 | during, I know, during dinner with Putin, | 我知道 在和普京共进晚餐时 |
| 446 | and I think that they had some long talks, | 我觉得他们谈了很久 |
| 447 | maybe good talks, he asked for them. | 也许好谈,他要求的。 |
| 448 | And I think, yes, they said for him it doesn't matter | 我想,是的,他们说,这不重要 |
| 449 | what he is lying 30 years. | 30年来他一直在撒谎 |
| 450 | So what does it mean? | 这是什么意思? |
| 451 | I think I'm sure that he says, I want peace, | 我想我肯定他说我要和平 |
| 452 | I don't want this war, I'm ready to stop. | 我不想要这场战争, 我准备停止。 |
| 453 | Something general, you know? | 将军,你知道吗? |
| 454 | Something what he can repeat for them each day, | 他每天能为他们重复的东西 |
| 455 | and there is another information what he repeats for, | 他有别的消息, |
| 456 | not openly, for his team each day. | 不是公开的, 对于他的团队每天。 |
| 457 | It's two different putters. | 是两个不同的推杆。 |
| 458 | And you believe he's lying to them? | 你相信他在骗他们? |
| 459 | Of course. | 当然 |
| 460 | And do you think that Witkoff and Kushner trust Putin? | 你觉得维特科夫和库什纳信任普京吗? |
| 461 | He knows what to do. | 他知道该怎么做。 |
| 462 | He's from KGB, so he knows how to do it, | 他是克格勃的 所以他知道该怎么做 |
| 463 | how to speak with them. | 如何与他们说话。 |
| 464 | He's learned these things in the KGB, | 他在克格勃学过这些 |
| 465 | how to speak to them. | 如何与他们说话。 |
| 466 | Of course. | 当然 |
| 467 | And do you think, but do you think that they believe him? | 你觉得他们相信他吗? |
| 468 | Do you think that Putin is playing them? | 你觉得普京在玩吗? |
| 469 | Let me be very honest. | 让我说实话。 |
| 470 | I mean, there's people like when somebody says that, | 我的意思是,有人喜欢 当有人说, |
| 471 | yes, you're right, we need peace. | 是的,你说得对,我们需要和平。 |
| 472 | And America said, look, Mr. President, we need peace. | 美国说,总统先生,我们需要和平。 |
| 473 | President Trump wants peace. | 川普总统希望和平. |
| 474 | And he said, of course, President Trump | 他说,当然,川普总统 |
| 475 | is a great, strong man, the strongest American president, | 是一个伟大,强壮的人,最强壮的美国总统, |
| 476 | never was, I mean, he's the best, and I respect him. | 他从来就不是最棒的 我尊重他 |
| 477 | And of course, they like to listen it. | 当然,他们喜欢听 |
| 478 | I don't know if they trust or not, | 我不知道他们信不信 |
| 479 | but I mean, it's in the nature of people, | 但是,我是说,这是在人的本性, |
| 480 | like sweet words, like sweet lying. | 就像甜言蜜语 甜言蜜语 |
| 481 | So it's in the nature of people, | 所以这是在人的本性, |
| 482 | because they don't have this sensitivity what we have, | 因为他们没有这种敏感 我们所拥有的, |
| 483 | because for them, he is not an enemy. | 因为他们不是敌人 |
| 484 | No, no, they understand everything, | 不,不,他们了解一切, |
| 485 | that Russians are not right, and et cetera. | 俄罗斯人是不对的,等等。 |
| 486 | But for them, Americans, I mean, these guys, | 但对他们来说,美国人,我的意思是,这些人, |
| 487 | they don't, they can't feel it, | 他们没有,他们感觉不到, |
| 488 | because this war is not in the United States, | 因为这场战争并不在美国 |
| 489 | and God bless, will never be, but it's another war. | 上帝保佑,永远不会是, 但这是另一场战争。 |
| 490 | Even when you have attacks on Iranians, | 即使你袭击伊朗人 |
| 491 | it's not the war in the United States. | 这不是美国的战争。 |
| 492 | You understand, you feel this terrible, | 你明白,你觉得很可怕, |
| 493 | absolute terrorism, terrible terrorism | 绝对恐怖主义、可怕的恐怖主义 |
| 494 | on the 11th, 25 years ago, on the 11th September. | 25年前的9月11号 |
| 495 | That was, after such things, | 这是,经过这些事情, |
| 496 | can you imagine after such things | 你能想象这些事情之后 |
| 497 | that America representatives speak with these terrorists, | 美国代表与这些恐怖分子交谈, |
| 498 | and yes, with very polite form? | 和是的,非常礼貌的形式? |
| 499 | Oh, I can't imagine. | 哦,我无法想象。 |
| 500 | That's why Americans answered, respond strongly. | 这就是为什么美国人回答, 强烈的反应。 |
| 501 | This is where we are, we now, in these towers, | 这就是我们的位置,我们现在,在这些塔, |
| 502 | but not in one place, not in one place, | 但不是在一个地方,不是在一个地方, |
| 503 | in a very big country. | 在一个非常大的国家。 |
| 504 | All our towers destroyed, houses and schools, everything, | 我们所有的塔被毁,房屋和学校,一切, |
| 505 | and we can't say, yes, we trust Putin, | 我们不能说,是的,我们信任普京, |
| 506 | because we don't trust him, like you didn't trust him. | 因为我们不信任他 就像你不信任他一样 |
| 507 | You don't trust Putin? | 你不信任普京吗? |
| 508 | Of course not. | 当然不是。 |
| 509 | 你觉得Wyckoff和Kushner相信他吗? | |
| 510 | You know, Putin doesn't trust me, I'm sure. | 你知道,普京不信任我,我相信。 |
| 511 | 你觉得Wyckoff和Kushner信任普京吗? | |
| 512 | Do you think that this flattery works on them? | 你觉得这种奉承对他们有用吗? |
| 513 | I don't know, totally, I don't know, | 我不知道,完全, 我不知道, |
| 514 | 100% they trust him, or 50%, | 他们100%相信他,或者50%, |
| 515 | but they have dialogue, they have dialogue. | 但他们有对话,他们有对话。 |
| 516 | So that's why, for me, the difference is that, | 这就是为什么,对我来说,区别是, |
| 517 | I mean, this is not the goal of my life, | 我的意思是,这不是我的目标, |
| 518 | to meet with president who really attacked us, | 会见真正攻击我们的总统, |
| 519 | wants to kill us, killed us, a lot of people, | 想杀了我们 杀了我们 很多人 |
| 520 | and won't occupy it. | 并且不会占据它。 |
| 521 | It's not the best way to spend the time, | 这可不是花时间的最佳方式 |
| 522 | but we have to be pragmatic, | 但我们必须务实 |
| 523 | and we want to end this war, | 我们要结束这场战争, |
| 524 | and without these two sides, you can't do this. | 和没有这两个方面, 你不能做到这一点。 |
| 525 | Can't, because his goal is to occupy it. | 不能,因为他的目标是占领它。 |
| 526 | My goal is to occupy it. | 我的目标是占领它 |
| 527 | These different two goals, and to find something, | 这两个不同的目标 为了找到一些东西 |
| 528 | how to stop killings, stop losses, | 如何阻止杀戮 阻止损失 |
| 529 | and move it to diplomatic way of negotiation, | 并把它引入外交谈判方式, |
| 530 | just to try it, between us, just to try it, | 只是试试,我们之间,只是试试, |
| 531 | and just to begin to start it, | 刚刚开始, |
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