直言不讳！英国保守党党魁谈特朗普争议言论：分清“嘴炮”与“政
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | I have a side and he's always on the side of His Majesty. | 我有一个侧面 他总是站在陛下的侧面 |
| 0:04 | Sometimes Donald Trump speaks rubbish. | 有时唐纳德·特朗普会说废话. |
| 0:06 | I think sometimes he has said things that he probably shouldn't have said. | 我想有时候他说过一些 他可能不该说的话 |
| 0:09 | I think that Liz Frost has had her time. | 我想丽兹·弗罗斯特已经有她的时间了 |
| 0:13 | She made serious mistakes as Prime Minister. | 她作为总理犯了严重的错误. |
| 0:18 | Welcome to Newsnight. | 欢迎来到新闻之夜 |
| 0:21 | You've faced the Prime Minister a few times now in Parliament | 你现在在议会面对首相几次了 |
| 0:24 | and had other things to say about him outside Parliament. | 在议会之外还有别的事要说 |
| 0:27 | You've repeatedly called him a people-pleaser. | 你一再称他为人民喜悦者. |
| 0:29 | Does that mean you don't want to be liked? | 那表示你不想被喜欢吗? |
展开字幕全文（482 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | I have a side and he's always on the side of His Majesty. | 我有一个侧面 他总是站在陛下的侧面 |
| 2 | Sometimes Donald Trump speaks rubbish. | 有时唐纳德·特朗普会说废话. |
| 3 | I think sometimes he has said things that he probably shouldn't have said. | 我想有时候他说过一些 他可能不该说的话 |
| 4 | I think that Liz Frost has had her time. | 我想丽兹·弗罗斯特已经有她的时间了 |
| 5 | She made serious mistakes as Prime Minister. | 她作为总理犯了严重的错误. |
| 6 | Welcome to Newsnight. | 欢迎来到新闻之夜 |
| 7 | You've faced the Prime Minister a few times now in Parliament | 你现在在议会面对首相几次了 |
| 8 | and had other things to say about him outside Parliament. | 在议会之外还有别的事要说 |
| 9 | You've repeatedly called him a people-pleaser. | 你一再称他为人民喜悦者. |
| 10 | Does that mean you don't want to be liked? | 那表示你不想被喜欢吗? |
| 11 | So the job of Prime Minister is to take tough decisions | 所以首相的职责是做出艰难的决定 |
| 12 | and do the right thing for the country. | 为国家做正确的事 |
| 13 | Andy Burnham just says yes to whatever people ask him | 安迪·伯纳姆只是答应别人问他 |
| 14 | without knowing whether he can actually do it. | 却不知道他是否真的能做到 |
| 15 | And in the end it won't please people. | 最终它不会取悦人们。 |
| 16 | Just telling people what they want to hear in the moment | 只是告诉人们他们想听到什么 |
| 17 | without actually having a plan to deliver | 没有实际的计划 |
| 18 | is what has caused so many problems for so many previous Prime Ministers, | 给前总理带来这么多问题 |
| 19 | including Keir Starmer. | 包括基尔·斯塔默. |
| 20 | Can I ask you about a couple of things that you've floated without a clear plan? | 我能问你一些事情吗? |
| 21 | Just recently you floated the idea of scrapping inheritance tax, | 最近你提出取消遗产税的想法 |
| 22 | calling it morally wrong. | 道德上说错了 |
| 23 | It would potentially cost £11 billion rise to £15 billion. | 它可能花费110亿英镑,增加到150亿英镑。 |
| 24 | Isn't that exactly the sort of people-pleasing without a plan that you criticised? | 这难道不是那种没有你批评的计划就让人心烦意乱吗? |
| 25 | Because I have said we are working on it | 因为我说过我们正在努力 |
| 26 | and that we're going to see what we can do. | 而我们会看看我们能做些什么。 |
| 27 | I haven't made any promises on inheritance tax, | 我还没承诺过继承税 |
| 28 | but I want people to know the principle that I think | 但我希望人们知道 我认为的原则 |
| 29 | that if you've got a family business or a family farm, | 如果你有家庭生意或家庭农场 |
| 30 | you've worked hard, you should be able to hand that down. | 你辛勤工作,你应该能 交出下来。 |
| 31 | And actually there are a lot of people I've met all around the country | 其实我在全国各地见过很多人 |
| 32 | who are saying that they're not investing, | 他们说他们没有投资, |
| 33 | they're not growing their business, they're not hiring more people | 他们没在做生意,也没有在雇更多的人 |
| 34 | because they're worried about tax liabilities. | 因为他们担心税收负债 |
| 35 | These are the people who create jobs in our economy. | 这些是我们经济中创造就业的人。 |
| 36 | It's not Andy Burnham making more mayors that's going to grow the economy. | 不是安迪·伯纳姆让更多市长 来发展经济 |
| 37 | It's going to be those people. | 会是那些人 |
| 38 | But this is you floating a thing which you don't have a plan for, | 但这是你漂浮的东西 你没有计划, |
| 39 | which is precisely what you criticised him for. | 这就是你批评他的原因 |
| 40 | I'm the leader of the opposition, I'm not the Prime Minister. | 我是反对党领袖,我不是总理. |
| 41 | He's in the job right now. | 他现在在工作 |
| 42 | If I'm Prime Minister, | 如果我是总理, |
| 43 | I'm going to be laying out exactly what I'm going to do when and how. | 我将确切地阐述我将在何时如何做。 |
| 44 | Just two weeks ago, | 就在两周前 |
| 45 | I laid out a plan for how we're going to spend 3% on defence | 我计划了我们如何花3%的防御费 |
| 46 | using the welfare budget. | 使用福利预算。 |
| 47 | It's a difficult decision, | 这是一个困难的决定, |
| 48 | but I've got a plan to get to 3% on defence. | 但我有计划要达到3%的辩护率 |
| 49 | Where's Andy Burnham's plan? | 安迪·伯纳姆的计划呢? |
| 50 | He's the actual Prime Minister. | 他是真正的总理. |
| 51 | John Healey, the Chancellor, was the defence secretary a few months ago | 约翰·海利,总理,几个月前是国防部长 |
| 52 | and they don't know how they're going to do it. | 他们不知道自己会怎么做 |
| 53 | That's the difference. | 即是分别. |
| 54 | The Conservatives actually are bringing common sense back, | 保守派实际上正在恢复常识 |
| 55 | but we're also making sure we explain to the country | 但我们也要向全国解释 |
| 56 | how we'll do these things. | 我们如何做这些事情。 |
| 57 | In terms of difficult decisions on welfare, | 在福利方面的困难决定方面, |
| 58 | the pension triple lock has been... | 养老金三联锁... |
| 59 | Pensions rise and die with inflation, 2.5% or wage growth. | 养恤金随通货膨胀、2.5%或工资增长而增加和死亡。 |
| 60 | Just amongst former Conservative Chancellors, | 只是前保守党总理, |
| 61 | Jeremy Hunt, Quasi-Quartet, Philip Hammond, Ken Clarke, | 杰里米·亨特 准四方 菲利普·哈蒙德 肯·克拉克 |
| 62 | Norman Lamont, have all said it needs to be looked at again. | 诺曼·拉蒙特 都说过需要重新审视 |
| 63 | Are they all wrong? | 他们都错了吗? |
| 64 | Well, you could ask why many of those former Chancellors | 你可以问为什么很多前总理 |
| 65 | didn't do it in the first place. | 一开始没有 |
| 66 | I will tell you why we're not making that our policy. | 我会告诉你为什么我们不做我们的政策。 |
| 67 | And it is because the primary problem with our economy right now | 这是因为我们经济目前面临的主要问题 |
| 68 | is growth. | 是增长。 |
| 69 | If we were growing at 2% to 3%, | 如果我们增长2%到3%, |
| 70 | nobody would even be talking about the triple lock. | 没有人会谈论三重锁。 |
| 71 | What we need to do right now | 我们现在要做的 |
| 72 | is get people off welfare and into work. | 让人们摆脱福利和工作。 |
| 73 | That's our number one priority. | 那是我们的首要任务 |
| 74 | And it's a double whammy now, | 现在是双关 |
| 75 | because you stop paying their benefits | 因为你停止支付他们的福利 |
| 76 | and they're actually paying taxes into the exchequer. | 他们实际上在为国库缴税 |
| 77 | That's what we want to focus on. | 这就是我们想要关注的。 |
| 78 | But the incomes of pensioners have risen much more quickly | 但养老金领取者的收入增长得更快 |
| 79 | than people in work. | 比人们在工作。 |
| 80 | So what you're proposing to do is to take money off of people | 所以,你建议做的是 取钱的人 |
| 81 | who are in work often and doing the right thing as you see it. | 他们经常在工作 做你所看到的正确的事 |
| 82 | But you're not proposing to do anything about the big rises | 但你不打算为大崛起做任何事 |
| 83 | that have been for pensioners. | 给养老金领取者。 |
| 84 | Tom Tugendhat, your new Shadow Foreign Secretary, | 汤姆·图根达特 你的新影子外交大臣 |
| 85 | said the potential triple lock is simply not sustainable | 说潜在的三重锁是无法持续的 |
| 86 | over the next 20 to 30 years. | 接下来的20到30年 |
| 87 | He said it was part of a Ponzi system for the old. | 他说这是庞氏制度的一部分 |
| 88 | Well, that is something that I disagree with. | 我不同意这一点。 |
| 89 | When conservatives came into the coalition government in 2010, | 2010年保守派进入联合政府时, |
| 90 | there was actually quite a lot of pensioner poverty. | 实际上,养恤金领取者的贫困程度相当高。 |
| 91 | And the reason why the triple lock was brought in was to fix that. | 而三重锁被带入的原因是要修复它. |
| 92 | Now, if we suddenly stop that and there's more pensioner poverty, | 现在,如果我们突然停止 和还有更多的退休者贫穷, |
| 93 | we will have to spend more on benefits for those people. | 我们必须为这些人的利益投入更多的资金。 |
| 94 | So again, it's moving money around. | 所以,它又在移动钱。 |
| 95 | I want us to move away from just distributing | 我要我们远离刚刚分发 |
| 96 | to actually fixing the problem. | 真正解决问题。 |
| 97 | I don't want to see pensioners fall, but there is also... | 我不想看到养恤金领取人倒下,但也有... |
| 98 | This is people-pleasing, this is pensioner-pleasing, isn't it? | 这让人心烦意乱,这让养老金领取者心烦意乱,不是吗? |
| 99 | No, no, what it is... | 不,不,这是... |
| 100 | Because they are the only group | 因为他们是唯一的团体 |
| 101 | which still consistently say they'll vote conservative | 总是说他们会投保守的票 |
| 102 | and you don't want to upset the pensioners. | 你不想让养老金领取者失望 |
| 103 | No, not at all. | 不,一点也不。 |
| 104 | The difference is that we are focusing on people | 不同之处在于我们把注意力集中在人身上 |
| 105 | who can work, who are not working. | 谁可以工作,谁没有工作。 |
| 106 | That's my focus. | 这是我的重点。 |
| 107 | A lot of pensioners are too old to work. | 很多养老金领取者年龄太大,无法工作. |
| 108 | That's why we have said that we are keeping the triple lock | 所以我们才说要锁上三锁 |
| 109 | as Conservative Party policy. | 作为保守党政策. |
| 110 | We are keeping the triple lock as Conservative Party policy. | 我们把三锁作为保守党的政策 |
| 111 | This is... | 这是... |
| 112 | I want people to be reassured about that. | 我希望大家对此放心. |
| 113 | If that changes, we will let people know, | 如果改变,我们会告诉大家, |
| 114 | but right now that's not changing. | 但现在情况没有改变 |
| 115 | So it could change before the next election. | 这样可以在下次选举之前改变。 |
| 116 | So if that changes, we will let people know. | 因此,如果这种情况发生变化,我们将让人们知道。 |
| 117 | It is our policy now. | 这是我们现在的政策。 |
| 118 | It has been certainly since 2010. | 肯定自2010年以来就一直如此。 |
| 119 | But what I'm not going to do, | 但我不会做的 |
| 120 | which is what we've seen the government do, | 这是我们看到的政府做的, |
| 121 | is start throwing hairs around. | 开始到处乱扔头发 |
| 122 | I've given people... | 我给了人们... |
| 123 | But you did on inheritance tax. | 但你在继承税上做了 |
| 124 | You throw a hair around on inheritance tax. | 你给遗产税发毛 |
| 125 | No, no, no, not at all. | 不,不,不,一点也不。 |
| 126 | I've said this is something that we want to do. | 我说了这是我们想做的事 |
| 127 | But we are also trying to make sure | 但我们也正在努力确保 |
| 128 | that we show how our plans stack up. | 我们展示我们的计划如何堆积起来。 |
| 129 | Fiscal responsibility is essential. | 财政责任至关重要。 |
| 130 | For every saving we find, | 为了我们找到的一切 |
| 131 | we've said that we're going to bring down the deficit. | 我们说过我们会减少赤字 |
| 132 | That's our golden economic rule. | 这是我们的黄金经济规则。 |
| 133 | It's absolutely essential that people know | 绝对必须让人们知道 |
| 134 | that the public finances will be safe with us. | 保证公共财政的安全 |
| 135 | New Shadow Chancellor, Andrew Griffith, | 新影子总理安德鲁·格里菲斯 |
| 136 | has been setting out how we're going to do this. | 已经明确了我们要怎么做 |
| 137 | It's very important that before we cut taxes | 减税之前,很重要 |
| 138 | or increase spending, | 或增加开支, |
| 139 | we show how we're going to balance the books. | 我们展示我们如何平衡书籍。 |
| 140 | In terms of balancing the books, | 在平衡书籍方面, |
| 141 | when we look at where Conservatives are in power | 当我们看着保守派掌权的地方 |
| 142 | in doing exactly that, | 在这样做时, |
| 143 | Wandsworth Council,一个保守党的竞选, | |
| 144 | is talking about putting up council tax by 94%. | 说要征收94%的议会税 |
| 145 | Is that the right move? | 这样做对吗? |
| 146 | 我觉得Wandsworth议会太过分了 | |
| 147 | is having to put up council tax. | 得征收议会税 |
| 148 | But they're not doing it because they want to. | 但他们这样做不是因为他们想这样做。 |
| 149 | It is because the government has taken away | 是因为政府带走了 |
| 150 | 40% of their funding. | 40%的资金。 |
| 151 | So we have actually instructed lawyers as a Conservative Party | 因此,我们实际上已经指示律师 作为保守党 |
| 152 | to see if we can challenge the government on this decision, | 看看我们是否能就这一决定向政府提出质疑, |
| 153 | because what it looks like Labour is doing | 因为LABOR看起来在做 |
| 154 | is taking money from areas that don't vote Labour | 是从不投票的地区拿钱 |
| 155 | and giving it to places that do vote Labour. | 并把它交给投票的地方 劳工。 |
| 156 | And I think that's completely wrong. | 我认为这是完全错误的。 |
| 157 | I think it is outrageous. | 我觉得这太过分了 |
| 158 | So we're talking to lawyers. | 所以我们在和律师说话 |
| 159 | Andy Burnham没有找到40%的切口 | |
| 160 | 但他要求Wandsworth这样做。 | |
| 161 | I don't think that's fair. | 我觉得这不公平 |
| 162 | I don't think that's right. | 我觉得这不对 |
| 163 | 事实是 Wandsworth 一直吹嘘 | |
| 164 | about having incredibly low council tax | 关于议会税收非常低的问题 |
| 165 | and even after these changes, | 即使在这些变化之后, |
| 166 | it will still be, for the average Bandy property, | 对于一般的班迪财产来说, |
| 167 | much lower than other council areas. | 远远低于其他议会地区。 |
| 168 | I think that if you suddenly had a nearly 100% increase | 我认为如果你突然增加近100% |
| 169 | in your council tax, you would be extremely worried. | 在你的议会税, 你会非常担心。 |
| 170 | Families have budgets just because on average | 家庭有预算只是因为平均 |
| 171 | it's lower than somewhere else doesn't mean | 这比别的地方要低 并不意味着 |
| 172 | that people are going to be able to afford it. | 人们会买得起的 |
| 173 | We have to do the right thing. | 我们必须做正确的事情。 |
| 174 | And what I would ask Andy Burnham | 我要问安迪·伯纳姆 |
| 175 | is if he thinks it's so easy to find 40% of cuts, | 如果他觉得很容易找到40%的削减 |
| 176 | why hasn't he done that with the welfare bill? | 他为什么没有用福利法案做? |
| 177 | 那么Wandsworth能接受多少钱? | |
| 178 | 10%,20%,30%? | |
| 179 | Well, right now it's about the principle of it, | 嗯,现在,这是关于它的原则, |
| 180 | that you don't just take money from areas | 你不只是从地方拿钱 |
| 181 | because they're not voting for you and give them elsewhere. | 因为他们不投票支持你 并给他们其他地方。 |
| 182 | That's the principle that we are challenging. | 这是我们挑战的原则。 |
| 183 | Although when it was in reverse | 虽然是逆向的 |
| 184 | and the Conservatives came in in 2010, | 保守党于2010年成立, |
| 185 | actually, formulas were revisited again | 实际上,再次重新审议了公式 |
| 186 | with the promise of, | 以承诺盟誓, |
| 187 | we're going to deliver it to areas, rural areas, | 我们要把它送到 地区,农村地区, |
| 188 | Shire counties, which traditionally vote Conservatives. | 郡郡,传统上为保守派投票. |
| 189 | All governments do this. | 所有政府都这样做。 |
| 190 | So I used to be a local government minister. | 所以我曾经是一位地方政府部长. |
| 191 | We didn't take from areas. | 我们没有从地方取走。 |
| 192 | We looked at who needed money most. | 我们看看谁最需要钱。 |
| 193 | And that was... | 这是... |
| 194 | The Conservative government massively slashed local government. | 保守党政府大规模割据地方政府. |
| 195 | So when I was local government minister, | 所以当我是地方政府部长时 |
| 196 | I'm talking about my record, | 我说的是我的记录, |
| 197 | what we did was make sure that the places that needed it most | 我们所做的就是确保最需要的地方 |
| 198 | got money from government. | 得到了政府的钱。 |
| 199 | What we didn't do was slash people's budgets by 40% | 我们没有把人民预算削减40% |
| 200 | because they were voting Labour. | 因为他们是投票劳工。 |
| 201 | We would never do that. | 我们永远不会这样做。 |
| 202 | I'd like to ask you about, you've talked about welfare. | 我想问你,你说过福利的事 |
| 203 | And clearly, one of the concerns is you want to get more people into work. | 显然,其中的一个关切是 你想让更多的人投入工作。 |
| 204 | But right now, there's a big conversation going on | 但是现在,有一个大 谈话正在进行 |
| 205 | about how many people might lose their jobs because of AI. | 关于有多少人可能因为AI而失业. |
| 206 | Earlier this year, you said, | 今年早些时候,你说, |
| 207 | the cat's out of the bag, we can't control it. | 猫从袋子里出来,我们不能控制它。 |
| 208 | Is that still your position | 那还是你的立场吗? |
| 209 | or do you think we should be trying to control AI? | 或者你认为我们应该控制AI? |
| 210 | Well, if you look at what's happening across the world, | 好吧,如果你看看 世界各地发生的一切, |
| 211 | we've got China that's racing ahead with AI. | 我们让中国和AI领先 |
| 212 | It's open source. | 开源. |
| 213 | I mean, even the American companies are worried about how much they've invested | 连美国公司都担心 投资多少 |
| 214 | and whether they can compete with China. | 以及他们是否能够与中国竞争。 |
| 215 | So we can't uninvent AI. | 所以我们不能发明AI。 |
| 216 | We've got to adapt. | 我们必须适应。 |
| 217 | What I want to see is sovereign capability in the UK. | 我想看到的是英国的主权能力。 |
| 218 | We have some of the best research. | 我们有一些最好的研究。 |
| 219 | A lot of these AI companies, | 许多这些AI公司, |
| 220 | companies like DeepMind, they started off here. | 像DeepMind这样的公司 他们从这里开始的 |
| 221 | So we need to make sure that we have the capability. | 因此,我们需要确保我们有能力。 |
| 222 | That's a totally separate thing from what AI is doing to jobs. | 这跟AI的工作完全不同 |
| 223 | We can see that when new technology comes in, | 我们可以看到,当新技术出现, |
| 224 | people change their patterns of employment. | 人们改变了他们的就业模式。 |
| 225 | I think in the longer term that we will see more jobs, | 我认为,从长远来看,我们将看到更多的工作, |
| 226 | but in the short term, it is having an impact | 但在短期内,它正在产生影响 |
| 227 | as people are spending more on AI. | 因为人们在人工智能上花费更多 |
| 228 | AI could be becoming more expensive. | AI可能越来越昂贵。 |
| 229 | There could be a bubble. | 可能会有泡泡 |
| 230 | So what I don't want to see is the government getting involved | 所以我不想看到政府介入 |
| 231 | in something that it can't actually control. | 在它无法实际控制的东西。 |
| 232 | What I don't want to see is China leading in AI | 我不想看到中国在AI领先 |
| 233 | while we're banning it in any such way. | 而我们却在禁止它 |
| 234 | We need to make sure that we have the capability, | 我们需要确保我们有能力, |
| 235 | but we can still look after our security. | 但我们仍然可以 照顾我们的保安。 |
| 236 | You said we can't uninvent it, | 你说我们不能不发明它, |
| 237 | but that's exactly what politicians used to say about social media. | 但是,这正是政治家们常说的 关于社交媒体。 |
| 238 | And then you led the charge on introducing a ban for under-16s on social media. | 之后你领导了对16岁以下社交媒体实行禁令的指控. |
| 239 | So that's an example of where the government has intervened on a new technology. | 这就是政府干预新技术的例子。 |
| 240 | Yes, but we banned it for under-16s, not for everybody. | 是的,但我们禁止了16岁以下,不是每个人。 |
| 241 | That's a rule for children. | 这是儿童的规则。 |
| 242 | Social media is for adults, not for children. | 社交媒体面向成人,而非儿童. |
| 243 | That's completely different from banning AI for adults or across the country. | 这与禁止成人或全国各地的AI完全不同. |
| 244 | But do you think there should be some restrictions? | 但你觉得应该有一些限制吗? |
| 245 | I mean, when you've got... | 我的意思是,当你有... |
| 246 | Like what? | 比如说? |
| 247 | Well, when you've got former employees of AI companies | 当你有AI公司的前员工时 |
| 248 | talking about a 10% risk to humanity, | 说到人类10%的风险, |
| 249 | does that not make you pause and think, | 难道你不会停下来想, |
| 250 | just leaving it to the market, governments shouldn't get involved? | 刚离开市场, 政府不应该介入? |
| 251 | Is that not just a bit washing your hands a bit? | 这不就是洗手吗? |
| 252 | Of course it should make us think. | 当然,它应该让我们思考。 |
| 253 | You know, it was the conservative government under Rishi Sunak | 是里希·苏纳克手下的保守政府 |
| 254 | that set up the AI Safety Institute. | 建立了AI安全研究所。 |
| 255 | Of course we need to look at those things. | 当然我们需要看看那些东西。 |
| 256 | But pretending that if we say we're not doing AI anymore, | 但假装如果我们说 我们不再做AI, |
| 257 | that other countries will just sit back and do nothing is for the birds. | 其他国家会袖手旁观 为鸟儿们做任何事 |
| 258 | China wants the supreme capability. | 中国希望拥有最高能力. |
| 259 | At the moment, I'm worried about whether they can corner all of the chips. | 目前,我担心他们能否把筹码都翻过来. |
| 260 | You know, if Taiwanese chips don't get to the UK, | 如果台湾薯片没到英国 |
| 261 | then it's game over for the West, as far as we can tell. | 就我们所知,西方的比赛已经结束了 |
| 262 | We have got to be serious about what it is we are regulating. | 我们必须认真对待我们所监管的是什么。 |
| 263 | Simply closing our eyes and saying we don't want any AI, make it go away. | 闭上眼睛说我们不要任何AI 让它消失 |
| 264 | That's not a serious strategy. | 这不是一个严肃的策略。 |
| 265 | All these warnings don't keep you awake at night, the impact of AI? | 这些警告让你晚上都睡不着 AI的影响? |
| 266 | So it is government's job to make sure that we can defend ourselves. | 所以确保我们能自卫是政府的职责 |
| 267 | The best way to protect ourselves from AI going rogue | 保护自己免受AI叛逆的最好方法 |
| 268 | is having our own AI that can protect us. | 我们的人工智能可以保护我们 |
| 269 | It's not about deciding to leave it | 这不是决定离开它 |
| 270 | and hoping that other countries will be nice to us | 希望其他国家对我们好 |
| 271 | when they can continue to develop the capability. | 他们可以继续发展这种能力。 |
| 272 | I was quite worried, for example, when the US stopped the release of Fable, | 我非常担心,例如,当美国 停止释放寓言, |
| 273 | one of the frontier models, because we didn't have access to it anymore. | 边疆模型之一, 因为我们没有 接触它了。 |
| 274 | Imagine a world where another country could just shut off our access | 想象一个世界,让另一个国家 关闭我们的通道 |
| 275 | to artificial intelligence while they're doing things that we're not capable of. | 在他们做我们无法做的事情时 向人工智能报告 |
| 276 | That's the thing I'm most scared of. | 这是我最害怕的 |
| 277 | Donald Trump is obviously also one of those who's rejected the idea | 唐纳德·特朗普显然也是拒绝这个想法的人之一 |
| 278 | of government interference in AI. | 政府干预大赦国际。 |
| 279 | Andy Burnham下周第一次在联合国见他 | |
| 280 | What would you say to Donald Trump if you were in that meeting? | 如果你参加那次会议 你会对唐纳德·特朗普说什么? |
| 281 | I would be saying that he agreed all sorts of tech sector deals | 我想说的是 他同意了各种技术行业的交易 |
| 282 | when he had the state dinner, and that investment has not come in. | 当他吃国宴时 投资还没有到位 |
| 283 | Whatever it was the Labour negotiated did not last a year. | 无论谈判的劳工协议是什么,都持续不到一年。 |
| 284 | And I would be saying, hang on, where's our money, where's our investment? | 我会说,等等,我们的钱在哪里,我们的投资在哪里? |
| 285 | Why has it gone away? | 为什么它消失了? |
| 286 | You've been pretty critical of him, most recently on his comments | 你一直很批评他 最近他的评论 |
| 287 | on a United Ireland, on Canada, on Greenland, on the Ukraine, | 关于一个联合爱尔兰, 加拿大, 格陵兰, 乌克兰, |
| 288 | on the Falklands. | 在福克兰群岛。 |
| 289 | Do you see President Trump as an ally of the UK? | 你认为川普总统是英国的盟友吗? |
| 290 | So, yes, America is an ally irrespective of the president. | 所以,是的,美国是一个盟友 不管总统。 |
| 291 | Is Donald Trump an ally? | 唐纳德·特朗普是盟友吗? |
| 292 | Sometimes. | 有时 |
| 293 | So when he talks about drilling our own oil and gas in the North Sea, | 所以当他谈到在北海钻探我们自己的石油和天然气时 |
| 294 | he's being an ally. | 他是一个盟友。 |
| 295 | When he talks about uniting Ireland, I think that he's just speaking | 当他谈论统一爱尔兰时 我想他只是说 |
| 296 | without thinking about the consequences of what that means. | 而不考虑那意味着什么的后果。 |
| 297 | So I'm pretty straight with these things. | 所以我很直说了 |
| 298 | If someone says something that I agree with, | 如果有人说我同意的话 |
| 299 | I say, yes, I agree with them, that's a good thing. | 我说,是的,我同意他们的意见,这是好事. |
| 300 | If they say something that I disagree with, | 如果他们说我不同意的话 |
| 301 | then I will disagree with them. | 那我就不同意他们的意见了 |
| 302 | What I don't do is just pick sides and agree with people, | 我不这样做 只是选择一边 同意人们, |
| 303 | no matter what rubbish it is that they say, | 无论他们怎么说, |
| 304 | or disagree with someone if they're saying something quite sensible. | 或者不同意有人说一些很明智的话 |
| 305 | But sometimes Donald Trump speaks rubbish? | 但有时唐纳德·特朗普会说垃圾? |
| 306 | I think sometimes he has said things that he probably shouldn't have said. | 我想有时候他说过一些 他可能不该说的话 |
| 307 | Can I ask you about, again, another story which has dominated this week, | 我可以问你,再次, 另一个故事 本周主导, |
| 308 | the question of immigration. | 移民问题。 |
| 309 | If you were a resident of Piddington, | 如果你是皮丁顿的居民 |
| 310 | who are concerned about an asylum centre opening right next to their village, | 他们担心一个庇护中心就在他们的村庄旁边开放, |
| 311 | would you have voted to leave the UK this week? | 你本周会投票离开英国吗? |
| 312 | So probably not, but I completely agree with the people of Piddington. | 所以也许不是 但我完全同意皮丁顿人民的意见 |
| 313 | What is happening to them is not right. | 他们正在发生的事情是不对的。 |
| 314 | It is not fair to put a migrant camp in a village that has not got the infrastructure. | 把一个移民营地安置在一个没有基础设施的村庄是不公平的。 |
| 315 | This is yet another example of Labour putting things in places, | 这是劳勃把东西放在地方的又一个例子, |
| 316 | in places that don't vote for them. | 在不投票给他们的地方。 |
| 317 | It's not right. | 这不对 |
| 318 | The Shadow Home Secretary... | 影子内政大臣... |
| 319 | So where would you put them? | 那你会把它们放哪? |
| 320 | The Shadow Home Secretary, Chris Philp, | 影子内政大臣克里斯·菲尔普 |
| 321 | and Shadow Equalities Minister, Joy Morrissey, | 和影子平等部长乔伊·莫里西 |
| 322 | went there and spoke to the people of Piddington. | 在那里和皮丁顿的人交谈 |
| 323 | I'm really glad the Conservatives are talking to them. | 我很高兴保守党和他们说话。 |
| 324 | I've been very clear. | 我已经说得很清楚了 |
| 325 | We need to stop the boats. | 我们得阻止那些船 |
| 326 | We are managing a problem instead of ending the problem and stopping it. | 我们正在处理一个问题,而不是结束和阻止它。 |
| 327 | That's why we have come out with a policy to leave the Convention on Human Rights. | 因此,我们提出了离开"人权公约"的政策. |
| 328 | It stops us from deporting these people. | 它阻止我们驱逐这些人。 |
| 329 | We've got a plan, a borders plan. | 我们有计划 边界计划 |
| 330 | Detain and deport is part of it. | 拘留和驱逐是其中的一部分。 |
| 331 | That's what we really need to do, | 这是我们真正需要做的, |
| 332 | not just keep parceling them all around the country. | 不只是继续把她们包裹在全国各地 |
| 333 | But given that there are thousands of people here, | 但考虑到这里有数千人 |
| 334 | if not Piddington, where would you put them? | 如果不是皮丁顿 你会把它们放在哪里? |
| 335 | Not in small villages that have got no infrastructure. | 不在没有基础设施的小村庄里 |
| 336 | It's not fair. | 这不公平 |
| 337 | So in towns and cities that vote Labour? | 那么在投票的城镇里? |
| 338 | So no, it's not about what people vote for. | 所以,不,这不是关于 人们投票。 |
| 339 | Parties like Reform and Labour, that's what they talk about, | 党如改革与劳工, 这就是他们谈论, |
| 340 | putting migrant camps in places that don't just vote for them. | 将移民营地安置在不只是投票支持他们的地方. |
| 341 | I want to solve this problem. | 我想解决这个问题。 |
| 342 | We had a situation in my county in Essex. | 我们在埃塞克斯郡出了点状况 |
| 343 | In Epping, we had a young girl sexually assaulted | 在艾平,我们有个年轻女孩被性侵犯了 |
| 344 | because migrants were being put in the wrong place in a migrant hotel. | 因为移民被放错地方 在移民酒店。 |
| 345 | So what's the right place? | 所以,什么是正确的地方吗? |
| 346 | So what I'm not going to do is come up with a list of they should go here and there. | 所以,我不打算做的是 拿出一个清单 他们应该在这里和那里。 |
| 347 | You said not villages and now not towns. | 你说不是村庄,现在不是城镇。 |
| 348 | So where is the right place? | 那么,哪里是正确的地方吗? |
| 349 | We need to make sure that we put people in places | 我们需要确保 我们把人的地方 |
| 350 | where we can get them out of the country as quickly as possible. | 我们可以尽快把他们带出国境 |
| 351 | It is really difficult. | 这真的很难。 |
| 352 | But on a case-by-case basis, | 但是,根据具体情况, |
| 353 | we can look at villages like Piddington and say it doesn't make any sense at all. | 我们可以看看像皮丁顿这样的村庄 并说这没有任何意义。 |
| 354 | Can you give me one example of a place where it does make sense? | 你能举个例子给我看看它确实有道理的地方吗? |
| 355 | So I'm not going to name any particular place. | 所以我不会说出具体的地方 |
| 356 | What I am going to say is that we have had situations as a government | 我要说的是,我们有个政府 |
| 357 | when we were in power and we managed to close down hotels. | 当我们掌权的时候 我们设法关闭了酒店 |
| 358 | We managed to make sure the communities were not impacted. | 我们设法确保社区没有受到影响。 |
| 359 | That is what I want to see Labour doing. | 这就是我希望看到LABOR做的。 |
| 360 | But isn't the truth, this is what opposition parties do. | 但事实并非如此,反对党就是这样做的。 |
| 361 | So we don't want it there, we don't want it there, we don't want it there. | 所以我们不希望它在那里, 我们不希望它在那里, 我们不希望它在那里,我们不希望它在那里。 |
| 362 | The government has a problem, a problem in part inherited from your government. | 政府有一个问题, 部分继承 从你的政府。 |
| 363 | Thousands of people arrived while you were in government | 上千人在你当政府的时候来了 |
| 364 | and you can't oppose everything. | 你不能反对一切 |
| 365 | This is happening all over the world. | 这正在世界各地发生。 |
| 366 | I was in Italy, I was in Greece, in France, they all have this problem. | 我在意大利,我在希腊,在法国, 他们都有这样的问题。 |
| 367 | Global mass migration is a problem. | 全球大规模移徙是一个问题。 |
| 368 | It's not something that's been created by any particular party. | 这不是任何特定政党创造的东西. |
| 369 | But how you deal with it shows how serious you are. | 但你怎么处理它 显示你有多认真。 |
| 370 | And the thing that I keep saying is that if we want to solve this problem, | 我一直说 如果我们想解决这个问题 |
| 371 | we need to stop it at source. | 我们需要阻止它的来源。 |
| 372 | That means stopping the boats. | 这意味着阻止船只。 |
| 373 | We tried a lot, but we failed previously. | 我们试过很多,但以前失败了 |
| 374 | We now have a new plan, leaving the ECHR, which should work. | 我们现在有了一个新的计划,离开欧洲人权法院,它应该发挥作用。 |
| 375 | Everything else is just talking about moving the problem around. | 其他一切只是谈论 移动问题周围。 |
| 376 | It's not fixing it. | 它不是修复它。 |
| 377 | I mean, as a result of the number of people arriving, | 我的意思是,由于 人数到达, |
| 378 | we've recently seen protests in Portsmouth, in Dover, in London and elsewhere. | 我们最近在波特斯茅斯、多佛、伦敦和其他地方看到抗议活动。 |
| 379 | Some organised by this character, Danny Tomo, | 一些由这个角色组织,丹尼・托莫, |
| 380 | people in balaclavas shouting, stop the boats, Christ is king as well. | 在Balaclavas的人们喊叫,阻止船只,基督也是国王。 |
| 381 | How do you feel about seeing protests like that in Britain? | 在英国看到那样的抗议有什么感觉? |
| 382 | So it just goes to show that a lot of people in the country are unhappy. | 所以,它只是显示, 这个国家很多人是不幸福的。 |
| 383 | You know, I have condemned protests that have turned violent. | 你知道,我已经谴责 抗议已经变成暴力。 |
| 384 | I do believe in the right to protest. | 我确实相信抗议的权利。 |
| 385 | I think people must be able to exercise their freedom of speech. | 我认为人们必须能够行使言论自由。 |
| 386 | But it's also really important that we as politicians show | 但作为政治家,我们一定要表现出来 |
| 387 | that we understand why they're concerned. | 我们理解他们为什么关心 |
| 388 | And this is a very difficult issue. | 这是一个非常困难的问题。 |
| 389 | So I understand that it's difficult for Labour. | 所以我明白这对工党来说很困难. |
| 390 | When we were in government, we saw that it was difficult. | 当我们在政府里的时候,我们看到了困难。 |
| 391 | And sometimes we had to put migrants in places that were challenging. | 有时我们不得不把移民 安置在充满挑战的地方。 |
| 392 | I had one right on the doorstep of my constituency. | 我有一个右 我的选区的门阶。 |
| 393 | And what I was doing was working on how to get those people out as quickly as possible. | 我正在研究如何尽快把这些人救出来。 |
| 394 | That's what we need to solve now. | 这就是我们现在需要解决的问题。 |
| 395 | Can I ask you about a different story, a story which is by far and away | 我能问你一个不同的故事吗 一个遥远的故事 |
| 396 | some of the most read online, people calling into Five Live about it as well. | 有些人在网上读得最多, |
| 397 | The publication of Earl Spencer's memoir about Princess Diana's life and death. | 厄尔·斯宾塞关于戴安娜公主生死的回忆录的出版. |
| 398 | Should he have kept his thoughts to himself and not publish this book? | 难道他应该把自己的想法保守起来,而不出版这本书吗? |
| 399 | Well, you know, it's always very difficult for me to talk about the Royal Family. | 我总是很难谈皇家家族 |
| 400 | The King is my boss. | 国王是我的老板。 |
| 401 | You know, I'm the leader of His Majesty's loyal opposition. | 你知道,我是陛下忠诚的反对者的领袖. |
| 402 | Earl Spencer's not your boss. | 厄尔·斯宾塞不是你的老板 |
| 403 | No, no, let me finish. | 不 不 让我说完 |
| 404 | Loyal opposition. | 忠诚的反对派。 |
| 405 | So I have a side and it's always on the side of His Majesty. | 故吾有一方,常在陛下之侧. |
| 406 | I would reiterate exactly what it was that the King himself had said | 我要重申国王本人所说的话 |
| 407 | or certainly Buckingham Palace said on his behalf. | 或者白金汉宫代表他说过 |
| 408 | I think it's, you know, it's coming up to 30 years. | 我认为,你知道, 它的到来长达30年。 |
| 409 | It's very painful to lose a close member of the family. | 失去一个亲近的家族成员是非常痛苦的. |
| 410 | But a lot of people also experienced that loss, including His Majesty | 但很多人也经历过这种损失,包括陛下 |
| 411 | and the Prince of Wales and Prince Harry as well. | 还有威尔士王子和哈里王子 |
| 412 | You've been critical this week of Reform UK for accepting these big donations. | 这个星期你一直批评英国改革 接受这些大捐款 |
| 413 | But if someone, a crypto boss, came to you and the Conservative Party and said | 但如果有人,一个秘密老板, 来到你和保守党说 |
| 414 | I'll write you a cheque for £36 million, would you take it? | 我给你写张3600万英镑的支票,你愿意吗? |
| 415 | Well, what I've been critical of is illegality. | 我一直批评非法性 |
| 416 | Reform are neck deep in scandals, whether it's Farage's fishy front. | 改革深陷丑闻之中,是否是法拉吉的鱼头. |
| 417 | They say these £36 million donations are legal. | 他们说这些3600万英镑的捐款是合法的. |
| 418 | Well, we'll see. | 好吧,我们会看到。 |
| 419 | But we do know that a criminal investigation has been opened. | 但我们知道刑事调查已经开始了 |
| 420 | This is not really about... | 这不是真的关于... |
| 421 | Not into those, into separate allegations. | 不在这些, 单独的指控。 |
| 422 | Yes. | 对 |
| 423 | But what I want to make clear is that you can't buy Conservative policy. | 但我想说明的是 你买不到保守政策 |
| 424 | If you agree with us, then yes, please give us, you know, | 如果你同意我们的话,那么是的,请给我们,你知道, |
| 425 | give us your donations, whether it's £36 or £36 million. | 给我们你的捐赠,无论是3600万英镑还是3600万英镑。 |
| 426 | But that's because you agree with what we're doing, | 但那是因为你同意我们的做法 |
| 427 | not because you're trying to buy or change our policy. | 不是因为你想买我们的政策 或改变我们的政策 |
| 428 | And I just think it's very interesting that reforms | 我只是觉得改革很有趣 |
| 429 | only fully fleshed out policy is on crypto. | 只有完全充实的政策是加密的。 |
| 430 | They haven't got a plan for defence, they haven't got a plan for housing. | 他们没有防御计划,也没有住房计划. |
| 431 | Why is that? | 为什么? |
| 432 | We've seen a few reform councillors quitting and coming back to the Conservatives. | 我们看到几位改革议员辞职,回到保守党. |
| 433 | They've rejoined in a few cases and you've welcomed them back in. | 他们已经重新加入了几个案子 你欢迎他们回来 |
| 434 | Would that apply to MPs who left and went to reform? | 这是否适用于离开和去改革的议员? |
| 435 | Would you welcome them back? | 你会欢迎他们回来吗? |
| 436 | No, a lot of reforms problems started when the problematic people | 不,很多改革问题 开始于有问题的人 |
| 437 | in the Conservative Party left. | 在保守党左翼。 |
| 438 | Things got a lot better for the Conservative Party | 对保守党来说,事情已经好多了 |
| 439 | when we didn't have those people. | 当我们没有这些人。 |
| 440 | I remember telling everyone that Nigel Farage was doing my spring cleaning. | 我记得告诉大家奈杰尔·法拉吉在做我的春季清洁工作 |
| 441 | Everybody knows. | 每个人都知道 |
| 442 | Robert Jenrick, Sweller Baverman. | 罗伯特·詹里克,斯韦勒·巴弗曼. |
| 443 | It's all of them. | 皆是众生. |
| 444 | Everybody knows. | 每个人都知道 |
| 445 | And we are all better for it in the Conservative Party. | 在保守党里我们都很适合 |
| 446 | What I want people to know is that this is a different party. | 我想让人们知道,这是一个不同的聚会。 |
| 447 | We're getting new people with higher standards. | 我们得到了新的人 有更高的标准。 |
| 448 | I think even Robert Jenrick right now, there's a police investigation | 我觉得即使是罗伯特・简里克 现在,有警方调查 |
| 449 | into some alleged impermissible donations. | 一些所谓的不允许捐赠。 |
| 450 | I'm just tired of all this stuff. | 我只是厌倦了这些东西。 |
| 451 | He denies any wrongdoing. | 他否认任何不当行为。 |
| 452 | Yes, he denies wrongdoing. | 是的,他否认错误。 |
| 453 | But I just don't want this stuff in my party anymore. | 但我只是不想 这东西在我的党了。 |
| 454 | I want people to know that the Conservatives are about common sense, | 我想让人们知道保守派是常识 |
| 455 | having plans, bringing the country together. | 有计划,使国家团结在一起。 |
| 456 | We're very focused. | 我们非常专注 |
| 457 | We know we made mistakes in the past. | 我们知道我们过去犯了错误。 |
| 458 | I fully accept that. | 我完全同意这一点。 |
| 459 | I have apologized repeatedly. | 我一再道歉。 |
| 460 | But right now, we've got to fix the problems in the country. | 但是现在,我们必须解决国内的问题. |
| 461 | And we have a reform party, neck deep in scandal, Labour, a welfare party, | 我们有一个改革党 深陷丑闻 工党 福利党 |
| 462 | where even they say all they want to do is tax more people to pay for more benefits. | 即使他们说他们想做的就是向更多的人征税 以支付更多的福利。 |
| 463 | Who is standing up for the hardworking people of this country? | 谁在为这个国家的辛勤工作的人站出来? |
| 464 | It's just Conservatives. | 这只是保守派。 |
| 465 | Final thought, then, when it comes to candidates. | 最后的思考,然后,当涉及到候选人。 |
| 466 | If you're not going to invite Robert Jenrick back, | 如果你不邀请罗伯特・詹瑞克回来 |
| 467 | Liz Truss suggested this week she might stand again for election. | 丽兹·特鲁斯本周建议她可能再次参选. |
| 468 | Not with us. | 不与我们. |
| 469 | Would you have her as a Conservative candidate? | 你愿意让她当保守党候选人吗? |
| 470 | No, no. | 没有,没有。 |
| 471 | I think that Liz Truss has had her time. | 我想丽兹·特鲁斯已经有她的时间了 |
| 472 | She made serious mistakes as Prime Minister. | 她作为总理犯了严重的错误. |
| 473 | And I think that it would be sending the wrong signal for us to have her back. | 我认为,那会发出错误的信号,让我们把她带回来。 |
| 474 | I wish her well. | 我祝她好运 |
| 475 | But right now, this is a party that's focused on the future. | 但是现在,这是一个专注于未来的聚会. |
| 476 | We want new candidates. | 我们要新的候选人。 |
| 477 | I want to show people this is a different Conservative party. | 我想告诉大家,这是一个不同的保守党。 |
| 478 | I don't want people talking about who was Prime Minister before and former MPs. | 我不希望人们谈论前总理和前议员。 |
| 479 | I want us to talk about people who are new coming to the party | 我要我们谈谈新来派对的人 |
| 480 | because they can see that we're the only ones who've got a plan to get this country working again. | 因为他们可以看到,只有我们有计划 让这个国家再次工作。 |
| 481 | Kevin Baininock, thank you for joining us. | 凯文·贝宁诺克 谢谢你加入我们 |
| 482 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
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