【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价

共 12 集

剧集目录

集	标题	时长
P1	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:56
P3	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	20:50
P4	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:08
P5	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:59
P6	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:07
P7	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:01
P8	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:10
P9	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:04
P10	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:14
P11	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:46
P12	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:52
P13	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:49

P1 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p01 1. 1.谋杀的道德侧面 (P1)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p01 1. 1.谋杀的道德侧面 (P1)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 54:56

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
0:06	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
0:31	This is a course about justice and we begin with a story.	这是一个关于正义的课程我们从一个故事开始。
0:37	Suppose you're the driver of a trolley car and your trolley car is hurtling down the track at 60 miles an hour.	假设你是一辆推车的司机你的推车以每小时60英里的速度在轨迹下行驶
0:44	And at the end of the track you notice five workers working on the track.	在赛道尽头,你注意到有五个工人在赛道上工作。
0:49	You try to stop but you can't. Your brakes don't work.	你试图停止,但你不能。你的刹车不起作用。
0:53	You feel desperate because you know that if you crash into these five workers	你感到绝望因为你知道如果你撞上这五个工人
0:59	they will all die. Let's assume you know that for sure.	他们都会死让我们假设你肯定知道这一点。
1:05	And so you feel helpless until you notice that there is, off to the right, a side track.	因此,你感到无助直到你注意到, 有一个右侧的轨道。
1:13	And at the end of that track there's one worker working on the track.	在赛道的尽头有一个工人在赛道上工作

展开字幕全文（714 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
2	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
3	This is a course about justice and we begin with a story.	这是一个关于正义的课程我们从一个故事开始。
4	Suppose you're the driver of a trolley car and your trolley car is hurtling down the track at 60 miles an hour.	假设你是一辆推车的司机你的推车以每小时60英里的速度在轨迹下行驶
5	And at the end of the track you notice five workers working on the track.	在赛道尽头,你注意到有五个工人在赛道上工作。
6	You try to stop but you can't. Your brakes don't work.	你试图停止,但你不能。你的刹车不起作用。
7	You feel desperate because you know that if you crash into these five workers	你感到绝望因为你知道如果你撞上这五个工人
8	they will all die. Let's assume you know that for sure.	他们都会死让我们假设你肯定知道这一点。
9	And so you feel helpless until you notice that there is, off to the right, a side track.	因此,你感到无助直到你注意到, 有一个右侧的轨道。
10	And at the end of that track there's one worker working on the track.	在赛道的尽头有一个工人在赛道上工作
11	Your steering wheel works. So you can turn the trolley car, if you want to, onto the side track	你的方向盘工作。这样你就可以把推车开到侧道上
12	killing the one but sparing the five.	杀死一个,但留下五个。
13	Here's our first question. What's the right thing to do?	这是第一个问题。何等为善.
14	What would you do? Let's take a poll.	你会怎么做? 我们来投票吧
15	How many would turn the trolley car onto the side track? Raise your hands.	有多少人会把推车开到侧轨? 举手曰.
16	How many wouldn't? How many would go straight ahead?	有多少不会? 有多少人会直接前进?
17	Keep your hands up, those of you who would go straight ahead.	举起手来你们中那些会直走的人
18	A handful of people would. The vast majority would turn.	少数人会的绝大多数人会变成这样。
19	Let's hear first. Now we need to begin to investigate the reasons why you think it's the right thing to do.	先说. 现在我们需要开始调查你认为这样做是正确的原因。
20	Let's begin with those in the majority who would turn to go onto the side track.	让我们从多数人开始, 他们将转向到边上。
21	Why would you do it? What would be your reason?	你为什么要这么做? 你有什么理由吗?
22	Who's willing to volunteer a reason? Go ahead, stand up.	谁愿意自愿一个理由? 来吧,站起来。
23	Because it can't be right to kill five people when you can only kill one person instead.	因为杀五个人是不对的当你只能杀一个人的时候
24	It wouldn't be right to kill five if you could kill one person instead.	如果你能杀了一个人杀了五个人是不对的
25	That's a good reason. That's a good reason.	这是很好的理由。这是很好的理由。
26	Who else? Does everybody agree with that reason? Go ahead.	还有谁? 大家都同意这个理由吗? 来吧。
27	Well, I think it's the same reason on 9-11.	我想9 -11也是这个原因
28	We regard the people who flew the plane into the Pennsylvania field as heroes	我们把飞机飞到宾夕法尼亚战场的人视为英雄
29	because they chose to kill the people in the plane and not kill more people in big buildings.	因为他们选择了杀死飞机上的人,而不是在大建筑物中杀死更多的人.
30	So the principle there was the same on 9-11. It's a tragic circumstance.	所以9 -11的原理是一样的这是一个悲惨的情况。
31	But better to kill one so that five can live.	但宜杀一人,以养五人.
32	Is that the reason most of you had those of you who would turn? Yes.	这就是你们中多数人愿意转身的原因吗? 对
33	Let's hear now from those in the minority, those who wouldn't turn. Yes.	现在让我们听听少数派的人, 那些不肯转身的人。对
34	Well, I think that's the same type of mentality that justifies genocide and totalitarianism.	我想那也是种族屠杀和极权主义的理由
35	In order to save one type of race, you wipe out the other.	为了拯救一种种族,你消灭另一种种族.
36	So what would you do in this case? You would, to avoid the horrors of genocide,	这件案子你会怎么做? 为了避免种族灭绝的恐怖
37	you would crash into the five and kill them? Presumably, yes. Yeah.	你会撞到五个人并杀死他们? 估计是的对
38	Okay, who else? That's a brave answer. Thank you.	好吧,还有谁? 这是一个勇敢的答案。谢谢
39	Let's consider another trolley car case	我们再考虑另一件赛车案
40	and see whether those of you in the majority want to adhere to the principle	看看你们大多数人是否愿意遵守原则
41	better that one should die so that five should live.	最好让一个人死好让五个人活着
42	This time you're not the driver of the trolley car, you're an onlooker.	这次你不是特快车的司机你是旁观者
43	You're standing on a bridge overlooking a trolley car track.	你站在一座桥上俯瞰着一辆拖车
44	And down the track comes a trolley car. At the end of the track are five workers.	跑道下面有辆推车赛道尽头有5名工人.
45	The brakes don't work. The trolley car is about to careen into the five and kill them.	刹那无功用. 推车即将关照到五人之中并杀死他们.
46	And now you're not the driver. You really feel helpless.	现在你不是司机了你真的觉得无助。
47	Until you notice, standing next to you, leaning over the bridge is a very fat man.	在你注意到之前,站在你旁边,靠在桥上是一个非常胖的人.
48	And you could give him a shove. He would fall over the bridge,	你可以给他一个推力。他会倒在桥上,
49	onto the track, right in the way of the trolley car.	在赛道上,在车道上
50	He would die, but he would spare the five.	他会死,但他会饶了五人
51	Now, how many would push the fat man over the bridge? Raise your hand.	有多少人会把胖子推到桥上? 举手曰.
52	How many wouldn't? Most people wouldn't.	有多少不会? 大多数人不会。
53	Here's the obvious question. What became of the principle?	这里有一个明显的问题。原则是什么?
54	Better to save five lives even if it means sacrificing one.	最好救五条命就算是牺牲一条命
55	What became of the principle that almost everyone endorsed in the first case?	在第一个案例中,几乎所有人都赞同的原则是什么?
56	I need to hear from someone who was in the majority in both cases.	我需要听到一个人谁在多数在这两种情况。
57	How do you explain the difference between the two? Yes.	如何解释二者之别. 对
58	The second one, I guess, involves an active choice of pushing the person down,	第二种,我想, 涉及积极的选择推一个人下来,
59	which I guess that person himself would otherwise not have been involved in the situation at all.	我猜他本人本来根本不会参与这件事
60	And so to choose on his behalf, I guess, to involve him in something that he otherwise would have escaped	所以我想代表他选择让他参与到他本来会逃脱的事情中
61	is, I guess, more than what you have in the first case,	我想,比你第一件案子的要多
62	where the three parties, the driver and the two sets of workers, are already, I guess, in the situation.	在那里,三党, 驾驶员和两组工人, 我想, 已经处于这种情况。
63	But the guy working, the one on the track, off to the side,	但是那个在跑道上工作的人直接走到一边
64	he didn't choose to sacrifice his life any more than the fat man did, did he?	他没有比胖子更选择牺牲自己的生命是吗?
65	That's true, but he was on the tracks.	没错但他在铁轨上
66	This guy was on the bridge.	这家伙在桥上
67	Go ahead. You can come back if you want.	来吧。你可以回来,如果你想要的。
68	All right. It's a hard question. You did well. You did very well. It's a hard question.	好吧,我们走。难问. 你表现得很好你表现得很好难问.
69	Who else can find a way of reconciling the reaction of the majority in these two cases? Yes.	还有谁能够找到一种方法来调和多数人在这两种情况下的反应? 对
70	Well, I guess in the first case, where you have the one worker and the five,	好吧,我想在第一种情况下, 你有一个工人和五个,
71	it's choice between those two, and you have to make a certain choice,	是这两个人之间的选择, 你必须做出一定的选择,
72	and people are going to die because of the trolley car, not necessarily because of your direct actions.	人们会因为那辆推车而死不一定是因为你的直接行动
73	The trolley car is a runway thing, and you're making it a split-second choice.	推车是跑道的事,你把它做成分两秒的选择.
74	Whereas pushing the fat man over is an actual act of murder on your part.	把胖子推过来才是真正的谋杀行为
75	You have control over that, whereas you may not have control over the trolley car.	你可以控制它,而你可能无法控制推车。
76	So I think it's a slightly different situation.	所以我觉得情况有点不同
77	All right. Who has a reply? That's good. Who has a way, who wants to reply?	好吧,我们走。谁有答复? 这是很好的。谁有办法,谁想回答?
78	Is that a way out of this?	这是一条出路吗?
79	I don't think that's a very good reason because you choose to,	我不认为这是一个很好的理由因为你选择,
80	it's either way you have to choose who dies because you either choose to turn and kill the person,	无论是哪种方式,你必须选择谁死因为你要么选择转身和杀死这个人,
81	which is an act of conscious thought to turn,	这是一种自觉的行为,
82	or you choose to push the fat man over, which is also an act of conscious action.	或者你选择把胖子推过来这也是一种自觉的行为
83	So either way, you're making a choice.	所以不管怎么样,你都在做一个选择。
84	Do you want to reply?	你想回答吗?
85	Well, I'm not really sure that that's the case.	我不太确定情况是这样的
86	It just still seems kind of different, the act of actually pushing someone over onto the tracks and killing him.	这似乎还是有点不同, 实际上把某人推到铁轨上并杀死他。
87	You are actually killing him yourself.	你实际上是杀了他自己。
88	You're pushing him with your own hands.	你在亲手推他
89	你在推他,他不会有事的 You're pushing him.
90	It's not different than steering something that is going to cause death into another,	这和把会导致死亡的东西引向另一个没有区别
91	you know, it doesn't really sound right saying it now, but I'm up here.	你知道,这听起来不太对现在,但我在这里。
92	It's good. What's your name?	不错你叫什么来着?
93	Andrew.	安德鲁
94	Andrew. Let me ask you this question, Andrew.	安德鲁让我问你这个问题,安德鲁。
95	Yes.	对
96	Suppose standing on the bridge next to the fat man, I didn't have to push him.	假如站在那个胖子旁边的桥上我不必推他
97	Suppose he were standing over a trap door that I could open by turning a steering wheel like that.	假设他站在一个陷阱的门上我可以打开通过转动方向盘这样。
98	Would you turn?	你会转身吗?
99	For some reason, that still just seems more wrong.	出于某种原因,这似乎更错了。
100	Right?	对吧?
101	I mean, maybe if you accidentally like leaned into the steering wheel or something like that,	我的意思是,也许如果你不小心喜欢倾斜到方向盘或类似的东西,
102	or say that the car is hurtling towards a switch that will drop the trap, then I could agree with that.	或者说这辆车正在向一个开关开动开关会掉下陷阱我同意
103	Fair enough.	不错
104	It still seems wrong in a way that it doesn't seem wrong in the first case to turn, you say.	你说,在第一个案子里似乎还是不对的
105	And in another way, I mean, in the first situation, you're involved directly with the situation.	还有一种方式,我是说,在第一种情况下,你直接卷入了这种情况.
106	In the second one, you're an onlooker as well.	在第二个,你也是一个旁观者。
107	All right.	好吧,我们走。
108	So you have the choice of becoming involved or not by pushing the fat man.	所以你有选择参与与否通过推胖子。
109	Let's forget for the moment about this case.	暂时忘记这个案子吧
110	That's good.	这是很好的。
111	Let's imagine a different case.	让我们设想一个不同的情况。
112	This time you're a doctor in an emergency room and six patients come to you.	这次你是急诊室的医生六位病人来找你
113	They've been in a terrible trolley car wreck.	他们遭遇了可怕的车祸
114	Five of them sustained moderate injuries.	其中5人受轻伤。
115	One is severely injured.	其中一人受重伤。
116	You could spend all day caring for the one severely injured victim.	你可以花一整天时间照顾一个严重受伤的受害者。
117	But in that time, the five would die.	但在那段时间,五人会死。
118	Or you could look after the five, restore them to health.	或者你可以照顾五个人,恢复他们的健康。
119	But during that time, the one severely injured person would die.	但在这期间,一名重伤者将死亡。
120	How many would save the five?	多少人能救五个人?
121	Now is the doctor.	现在的医生。
122	How many would save the one?	有多少人能救那个?
123	Very few people.	甚少众生.
124	Just a handful of people.	只是几个人
125	Same reason, I assume.	我想也是一样的原因
126	One life versus five.	一命对五.
127	Now consider another doctor case.	现在考虑另一个医生病例。
128	This time you're a transplant surgeon.	这次你是移植外科医生
129	And you have five patients each in desperate need of an organ transplant in order to survive.	为了生存,你们有五个病人迫切需要器官移植
130	One needs a heart, one a lung, one a kidney, one a liver, and the fifth a pancreas.	一者须心,一者肺,一者肾,一者肝,五者胰.
131	And you have no organ donors.	而你没有器官捐献者。
132	You are about to see them die.	你即将看到他们死去。
133	And then it occurs to you that in the next room there's a healthy guy who came in for a checkup.	然后你想到,在隔壁的房间里有一个健康的家伙谁进来检查。
134	And he's...	他现在...
135	You like that?	你喜欢吗?
136	And he's taking a nap.	他正在睡觉
137	You could go in very quietly, yank out the five organs, that person would die.	你可以悄悄地进去挖出五个器官那个人会死的
138	But you could save the five.	但你可以救五个人
139	How many would do it?	有多少人会这么做?
140	Anyone?	有人吗?
141	How many? Put your hands up if you would do it.	多少个? 如果你愿意的话,举起手来
142	Anyone in the balcony?	有人在阳台吗?
143	You would?	你会吗?
144	Be careful, don't lean over too much.	小心点,别靠得太紧
145	How many wouldn't?	有多少不会?
146	Alright, what do you say?	好吧,怎么样?
147	Speak up in the balcony, you who would yank out the organs.	在阳台上说话,谁会挖出器官。
148	Why?	为什么?
149	I'd actually like to explore a slightly alternate possibility of just taking the one of the five who needs an organ, who dies first,	实际上,我想探索一种稍有替代的可能性只是取其中之一谁需要器官,谁先死,
150	and using their four healthy organs to save the other four.	并用他们四个健康的器官来拯救另外四个。
151	That's a pretty good idea.	这主意不错
152	That's a great idea.	这主意不错
153	Except for the fact that you just wrecked the philosophical point.	除了你破坏了哲学观点
154	Now let's step back from these stories and these arguments to notice a couple of things about the way the arguments have begun to unfold.	现在,让我们从这些故事和这些争论中退一步, 注意一些关于这些争论开始展开的方式。
155	Certain moral principles have already begun to emerge from the discussions we've had.	我们的讨论已经开始产生一些道德原则。
156	And let's consider what those moral principles look like.	让我们来看看这些道德原则是什么样子。
157	The moral principle that emerged in the discussion said the right thing to do, the moral thing to do,	讨论中出现的道德原则说正确的事情,道德的事情,
158	depends on the consequences that will result from your action.	取决于你的行为的后果
159	At the end of the day, better that five should live even if one must die.	最后,最好让五个人活着即使一个人必须死。
160	That's an example of consequentialist moral reasoning.	这是间接道德推理的例子.
161	Consequentialist moral reasoning locates morality in the consequences of an act,	随之而来的道德推理将道德定位于行为的后果中,
162	in the state of the world that will result from the thing you do.	发生在世界的状态, 将因你的行为。
163	But then we went a little further, we considered those other cases,	但后来我们更进一步, 我们考虑了那些其他案例,
164	and people weren't so sure about consequentialist moral reasoning when people hesitated to push the fat man over the bridge	当人们犹豫不决地把胖子推到桥上
165	or to yank out the organs of the innocent patient,	或拔出无辜病人的器官,
166	people gestured toward reasons having to do with the intrinsic quality of the act itself.	人们对与行为本身的内在质量有关的原因表态。
167	Consequences be what they may.	后果是可能发生的。
168	People were reluctant, people thought it was just wrong, categorically wrong,	人们很不情愿人们觉得这是错误的绝对是错误的
169	to kill a person, an innocent person, even for the sake of saving five lives.	杀死一个人,一个无辜的人, 即使为了挽救五个生命。
170	At least people thought that in the second version of each story we considered.	至少在我们考虑的每个故事的第二个版本中,人们都这样认为.
171	So this points to a second categorical way of thinking about moral reasoning.	因此,这指出了第二个对道德推理的断然思考方式.
172	Categorical moral reasoning locates morality in certain absolute moral requirements,	分类道德推理定位道德在某些绝对道德要求,
173	certain categorical duties and rights, regardless of the consequences.	某些明确的义务和权利,不论后果如何。
174	We're going to explore in the days and weeks to come the contrast between consequentialist and categorical moral principles.	我们将在几天和几周内探索必然的道德原则与绝对的道德原则之间的对比。
175	The most influential example of consequential moral reasoning is utilitarianism,	影响最大的道德推理例子是功利主义,
176	a doctrine invented by Jeremy Bentham, the 18th century English political philosopher.	一种由18世纪英国政治哲学家杰里米·本特姆发明的学说.
177	The most important philosopher of categorical moral reasoning is the 18th century German philosopher Immanuel Kant.	绝对道德推理最重要的哲学家是18世纪德国哲学家伊曼纽尔·康德.
178	So we will look at those two different modes of moral reasoning, assess them, and also consider others.	因此,我们将研究这两种不同的道德推理模式,评估它们,并审议其他模式。
179	If you look at the syllabus you'll notice that we read a number of great and famous books.	如果你看看教学大纲,你会注意到我们读了很多伟大和著名的书籍。
180	Books by Aristotle, John Locke, Immanuel Kant, John Stuart Mill, and others.	著有亚里士多德,约翰·洛克,伊曼纽尔·坎特,约翰·斯图尔特·米尔等人的书.
181	You'll notice too from the syllabus that we don't only read these books.	你也会从教学大纲中注意到我们不只是看这些书
182	We also take up contemporary political and legal controversies that raise philosophical questions.	我们还处理引起哲学问题的当代政治和法律争议。
183	We will debate equality and inequality, affirmative action, free speech versus hate speech,	我们将讨论平等和不平等、平权行动、言论自由与仇恨言论,
184	same-sex marriage, military conscription, a range of practical questions.	同性婚姻征兵一系列实际问题
185	Why? Not just to enliven these abstract and distant books,	为什么? 不只是为这些抽象和遥远的书注入活力,
186	but to make clear to bring out what's at stake in our everyday lives, including our political lives, for philosophy.	但是要清楚说明我们日常生活的利害关系包括我们的政治生活为了哲学
187	And so we will read these books, and we will debate these issues,	所以,我们将阅读这些书, 我们将辩论这些问题,
188	and we'll see how each informs and illuminates the other.	我们看看每个人如何向对方提供信息和照明
189	This may sound appealing enough, but here I have to issue a warning.	也许这听起来很吸引人但我得发出警告
190	And the warning is this, to read these books in this way, as an exercise in self-knowledge,	警告是,用这种方式阅读这些书,作为自我认知的练习,
191	to read them in this way carries certain risks.	以这种方式阅读它们会带来某些风险。
192	Risks that are both personal and political.	风险既涉及个人,也涉及政治。
193	Risks that every student of political philosophy has known.	每个政治哲学学生都知道的风险。
194	These risks spring from the fact that philosophy teaches us and unsettles us	这些风险源于哲学教导我们,使我们不安
195	by confronting us with what we already know.	通过面对我们已经知道的东西。
196	There's an irony.	有讽刺意味。
197	The difficulty of this course consists in the fact that it teaches what you already know.	这个课程的难度在于它教授你已经知道的东西。
198	It works by taking what we know from familiar unquestioned settings and making it strange.	它的工作原理是,从熟悉的无疑问的场合中吸取我们的知识,使它变得奇怪。
199	That's how those examples worked, the hypotheticals with which we began,	这些例子就是这样运作的, 我们开始的假设,
200	with their mix of playfulness and sobriety.	和他们玩耍和清醒的混合
201	It's also how these philosophical books work.	这也是这些哲学著作是如何运作的.
202	Philosophy estranges us from the familiar, not by supplying new information,	哲学让我们远离熟悉的人而不是提供新的信息
203	but by inviting and provoking a new way of seeing.	但通过邀请和激起新的观察方式。
204	But, and here's the risk, once the familiar turns strange, it's never quite the same again.	但是,这里的风险是, 一旦熟悉的人变得奇怪, 它不再完全一样了。
205	Self-knowledge is like lost innocence.	自知如是失净.
206	However unsettling you find it, it can never be unthought or unknown.	无论你多么不安地找到了它,它永远不可能是无意识的或未知的。
207	What makes this enterprise difficult, but also riveting,	是什么使这个企业困难, 但也令人兴奋,
208	is that moral and political philosophy is a story,	道德和政治哲学是一个故事,
209	and you don't know where the story will lead, but what you do know is that the story is about you.	你不知道故事会走向何处但你知道的是故事是关于你的
210	Those are the personal risks.	这些是个人风险。
211	Now what of the political risks?	现在的政治风险呢?
212	One way of introducing a course like this would be to promise you	介绍这样的课程的方法之一是答应你
213	that by reading these books and debating these issues, you will become a better, more responsible citizen.	你读这些书,辩论这些问题,就会成为一个更好,更负责任的公民。
214	You will examine the presuppositions of public policy.	你们将审查公共政策的预设。
215	You will hone your political judgment.	你会用你的政治判断
216	You will become a more effective participant in public affairs.	你将更有效地参与公共事务。
217	But this would be a partial and misleading promise.	但这将是一个部分和误导性的承诺。
218	Political philosophy, for the most part, hasn't worked that way.	政治哲学,在多数情况下,还没有这样发挥作用.
219	You have to allow for the possibility that political philosophy may make you a worse citizen,	你必须允许政治哲学让你成为更糟糕的公民
220	rather than a better one, or at least a worse citizen, before it makes you a better one.	而不是一个更好的人, 或者至少一个更糟糕的公民, 在它让你成为一个更好的人。
221	And that's because philosophy is a distancing, even debilitating activity.	这是因为哲学是一种疏远甚至削弱的活动.
222	And you see this going back to Socrates.	你会看到这个回到苏格拉底。
223	There's a dialogue, the Gorgias, in which one of Socrates' friends,	有一个对话,Gorgias, 其中苏格拉底的朋友之一,
224	Calicles, tries to talk him out of philosophizing.	Calicles,试图说服他脱离哲学。
225	Calicles tells Socrates, philosophy is a pretty toy if one indulges in it with moderation at the right time of life.	Calicles告诉Socrates 哲学是一个相当的玩具如果在生命的正确时刻温和地沉浸其中的话
226	But if one pursues it further than one should, it is absolute ruin.	但是,如果一个人进一步追求它,它就绝对是毁灭。
227	Take my advice, Calicles says.	接受我的建议吧考利克斯说
228	Abandon argument.	弃辩.
229	Learn the accomplishments of active life.	学习积极生活的成绩.
230	Remember your models, not those people who spend their time on these petty quibbles,	记住你的模特而不是那些花时间玩这些小花样的人
231	but those who have a good livelihood and reputation and many other blessings.	他们有良好的生计和声望,并享受许多福利。
232	So Calicles is really saying to Socrates, quit philosophizing.	Calicles真的在对苏格拉底说, 放弃哲学。
233	Get real.	变得真实。
234	Go to business school.	去商学院吧
235	Calcles确实有道理
236	He had a point because philosophy distances us from conventions, from established assumptions, and from settled beliefs.	他之所以有道理,是因为哲学使我们远离公约、既定的假设和既定的信仰。
237	Those are the risks, personal and political.	这些是个人和政治风险。
238	And in the face of these risks, there is a characteristic evasion.	面对这些风险,存在着典型的逃避现象。
239	The name of the evasion is skepticism.	逃者名曰疑论.
240	It's the idea, let's go something like this, we didn't resolve, once and for all,	这是想法,让我们去这样的东西,我们没有解决, 一劳永逸,
241	either the cases or the principles we were arguing when we began.	要么是案件要么是我们开始时争论的原则
242	And if Aristotle and Locke and Kant and Mill haven't solved these questions after all of these years,	如果亚里士多德、洛克、康特和米尔这么多年没解决这些问题
243	who are we to think that we, here in Sanders Theater over the course of a semester, can resolve them?	谁会认为我们在桑德斯剧院度过一个学期就能解决他们?
244	And so maybe it's just a matter of each person having his or her own principles and there's nothing more to be said about it.	所以也许这仅仅是每个人有自己的原则的问题,对此没有什么可说的了.
245	No way of reasoning.	无法推理.
246	That's the evasion, the evasion of skepticism, to which I would offer the following reply.	这就是逃避,逃避怀疑,对此我提出以下答复.
247	It's true, these questions have been debated for a very long time.	确实,这些问题已经辩论了很长时间.
248	But the very fact that they have recurred and persisted	但事实上,他们不断重演
249	may suggest that though they're impossible in one sense, they're unavoidable in another.	可能暗示,虽然从某种意义上说,它们是不可能的,但从另一种意义上说,它们是不可避免的。
250	And the reason they're unavoidable, the reason they're inescapable, is that we live some answer to these questions every day.	而它们不可避免的原因, 不可避免的原因, 就是我们每天都有回答这些问题。
251	So skepticism, just throwing up your hands and giving up on moral reflection, is no solution.	所以怀疑主义,只是举起手来,放弃道德反思,不是办法.
252	Immanuel Kant described very well the problem with skepticism when he wrote,	伊曼纽尔·康德(Immanuel Kant)在写到怀疑主义时非常清楚地描述了这个问题,
253	skepticism is a resting place for human reason, where it can reflect upon its dogmatic wanderings,	怀疑主义是人类的安息之所, 它可以反思它的教条游荡,
254	but it is no dwelling place for permanent settlement.	但这里不是永久居民点。
255	Simply to acquiesce, in skepticism, Kant wrote, can never suffice to overcome the restlessness of reason.	康德写道,只要默许,在怀疑论中,永远不足以克服理性的不安.
256	I've tried to suggest, through these stories and these arguments,	我试图建议通过这些故事和争论
257	some sense of the risks and temptations of the perils and the possibilities.	某些风险和诱惑感风险和可能性。
258	I would simply conclude by saying that the aim of this course is to awaken the restlessness of reason and to see where it might lead.	最后,我只想说,这一方针的目的是唤醒理智的不安,看看它可能带来什么结果。
259	Thank you very much.	谢谢
260	Like, in a situation that desperate, you have to do what you have to do to survive.	就像,在那种绝望的情况下,你必须做你必须做的事才能生存.
261	You have to do what you have to do.	须作如是事.
262	You gotta do what you gotta do, pretty much.	你得做你该做的, 相当多。
263	If you've been going 19 days without any food, someone just has to take the sacrifice, someone has to make the sacrifice, and people can survive.	如果你已经走了19天没有任何食物, 有人只需要承担牺牲, 有人做牺牲, 人们可以生存。
264	Alright, that's good. What's your name?	好吧,这是很好的。你叫什么来着?
265	Marcus.	马库斯
266	Marcus. What do you say to Marcus?	马库斯你对马库斯怎么说?
267	Last time, we started out last time with some stories, with some moral dilemmas about trolley cars and about doctors and healthy patients vulnerable to being victims of organ transplantation.	上回,我们以一些故事开始, 有一些道德困境关于推车, 关于医生和健康的病人很容易成为器官移植的受害者。
268	We noticed two things about the arguments we had.	我们注意到两件事关于我们的争论。
269	One had to do with the way we were arguing.	一个和我们争论的方式有关
270	We began with our judgments in particular cases.	我们首先对特定案件作出判决。
271	We tried to articulate the reasons or the principles lying behind our judgments.	我们试图阐明我们判决背后的原因或原则。
272	And then, confronted with a new case, we found ourselves re-examining those principles, revising each in the light of the other.	然后,面对一个新案件,我们发现自己重新审视了这些原则,根据另一个原则修改了每个原则。
273	And we noticed the built-in pressure to try to bring into alignment our judgments about particular cases and the principles we would endorse on reflection.	我们注意到,我们受到内在压力,要求我们努力调整对具体案件的判决,以及我们赞同的反思原则。
274	We also noticed something about the substance of the arguments that emerged from the discussion.	我们也注意到讨论中提出的论点的实质内容。
275	We noticed that sometimes we were tempted to locate the morality of an act and the consequences in the results, in the state of the world that it brought about.	我们注意到,有时,我们想将某一行为的道德和后果放在其结果中,放在它所造成的世界状况中。
276	And we called this consequentialist moral reasoning.	我们称之为必然的道德推理。
277	But we also noticed that in some cases, we weren't swayed only by the result.	但我们也注意到,在某些情况下,我们不仅仅因为结果而摇摆不定。
278	Sometimes, many of us felt, that not just consequences but also the intrinsic quality or character of the act matters morally.	我们许多人有时感到,不仅后果,而且行为的内在质量或性质在道义上都很重要。
279	Some people argued that there are certain things that are just categorically wrong, even if they bring about a good result.	有些人认为,有些事情是完全错误的,即使它们带来了好的结果。
280	Even if they save five people at the cost of one life.	纵以一命救五人.
281	So we contrasted consequentialist moral principles with categorical ones.	因此,我们把必然的道德原则与绝对的道德原则作了对比。
282	Today, and in the next few days, we will begin to examine one of the most influential versions of consequentialist moral theory.	今天,在接下来的几天里,我们将开始研究一个最有影响力的必然主义道德理论版本.
283	And that's the philosophy of utilitarianism.	这就是功利主义的哲学.
284	Jeremy Bentham, the 18th century English political philosopher, gave the first clear systematic expression to the utilitarian moral theory.	杰里米·本特姆(英語:Jeremy Bentham),18世纪英国政治哲学家,为功利主义的道德理论提供了第一个清晰的系统化表达.
285	And Bentham's idea, his essential idea, is a very simple one.	而本塔姆的想法,他的基本想法,是一个非常简单的想法.
286	With a lot of morally intuitive appeal.	与许多道德直观的吸引力.
287	Bentham's idea is the following.	本特姆的想法如下.
288	The right thing to do, the just thing to do, is to maximize utility.	正确之事,公正之事,是最大限度地发挥效用.
289	What did he mean by utility?	他是什么意思的效用吗?
290	He meant by utility the balance of pleasure over pain, happiness over suffering.	他的意思是利用快乐与痛苦的平衡幸福与痛苦的平衡
291	Here's how he arrived at the principle of maximizing utility.	这就是他如何达到最大效用的原则.
292	He started out by observing that all of us, all human beings, are governed by two sovereign masters.	他首先观察,我们所有人,所有的人,都受两个主权主人的统治.
293	Pain and pleasure.	痛苦与快乐.
294	We human beings like pleasure and dislike pain.	我们人类喜欢快乐不喜欢痛苦
295	And so we should base morality, whether we're thinking about what to do in our own lives,	所以,我们应该以道德为基础, 无论我们在思考做什么在我们自己的生活,
296	or whether, as legislators or citizens, we're thinking about what the laws should be.	或者,作为立法者或公民,我们正在思考法律应该是什么。
297	The right thing to do, individually or collectively, is to maximize, act in a way that maximizes the overall level of happiness.	正确的做法是,单独或集体地最大限度地,以最大限度的幸福整体水平行事.
298	Bentham's utilitarianism is sometimes summed up with the slogan, the greatest good for the greatest number.	本塔姆的功利主义有时会用口号来概括,对人数最多的最有利.
299	With this basic principle of utility on hand, let's begin to test it and to examine it by turning to another case.	有了这一基本实用原则,我们开始试一试,转而研究另一案.
300	Another story, but this time not a hypothetical story, a real life story.	另一个故事,但这次不是假设的故事,是真实生活的故事.
301	The case of the Queen versus Dudley and Stephens.	女王诉杜德利和斯蒂芬斯案.
302	This was a 19th century British law case that's famous and much debated in law schools.	这是一个19世纪的英国法律案例,在法学院中很有名,也有很多争论.
303	Here's what happened in the case.	案件是这样的
304	I'll summarize the story, then I want to hear how you would rule, imagining that you're the jury.	我会总结这个故事,然后我想听听你如何裁决, 想象你是陪审团。
305	A newspaper account of the time described the background.	一份当时的报纸报道描述了背景.
306	A sadder story of disaster at sea was never told than that of the survivors of the yacht Minunet.	海上灾难的悲惨故事从未像游艇Minunet的幸存者那样被讲述.
307	The ship foundered in the South Atlantic, 1300 miles from the Cape.	该舰在南大西洋解体,距开普1300英里.
308	There were four in the crew, Dudley was the captain, Stephens was the first mate, Brooks was a sailor.	船员中有4人,杜德利为船长,斯蒂芬斯为大副,布鲁克斯为水手.
309	All men of excellent character, or so the newspaper account tells us.	所有品行优秀的人报纸帐号都告诉我们
310	The fourth crew member was the cabin boy, Richard Parker, 17 years old.	第四名机组成员是17岁的机舱男孩理查德·帕克.
311	He was an orphan, he had no family, and he was on his first long voyage at sea.	他是一个孤儿,没有家人,他在海上第一次长途航行.
312	He went, the news account tells us, rather against the advice of his friends.	他去了,新闻帐户告诉我们, 而不是他朋友的建议。
313	He went in the hopefulness of youthful ambition, thinking the journey would make a man of him.	他投身于年轻野心的希望中,认为旅程会让他成为男人.
314	Sadly, it was not to be.	可悲的是,它不是那样的。
315	The facts of the case were not in dispute.	该案的事实没有争议。
316	The wave hit the ship and the Minunet went down.	海浪击中舰只,米努内特号下沉.
317	The four crew members escaped to a lifeboat.	四名船员逃到救生艇.
318	The only food they had were two cans of preserved turnips, no fresh water.	他们仅有的食物是两罐保存好的萝卜,没有淡水。
319	For the first three days they ate nothing.	头三天他们什么都没吃
320	On the fourth day they opened one of the cans of turnips and ate it.	在第四天,他们打开了一个罐子萝卜,吃了它。
321	The next day they caught a turtle.	第二天他们抓到一只乌龟
322	Together with the other can of turnips, the turtle enabled them to subsist for the next few days.	和另一罐萝卜一起,海龟使它们得以在接下来的几天里生存。
323	And then for eight days they had nothing.	然后八天他们什么都没有。
324	No food, no water.	无食无水.
325	Imagine yourself in a situation like that.	想象自己在这样的情况下。
326	What would you do?	你会怎么做?
327	Here's what they did.	这就是他们所做的。
328	By now the cabin boy, Parker, is lying at the bottom of the lifeboat in the corner	现在船舱男孩Parker 躺在船尾的角落
329	because he had drunk seawater against the advice of the others	因为他喝过海水违背别人的建议
330	and he had become ill and he appeared to be dying.	他病了,他看起来快死了。
331	So on the 19th day Dudley, the captain, suggested that they should all have a lottery,	所以在19日 Dudley,船长,建议他们都应该有一个彩票,
332	that they should draw lots to see who would die to save the rest.	他们应该抽签,看看谁会为了拯救其他人而死。
333	Brooks refused.	布鲁克斯拒绝了
334	He didn't like the lottery idea.	他不喜欢彩票的想法。
335	We don't know whether this was because he didn't want to take the chance	我们不知道是不是因为他不想冒险
336	or because he believed in categorical moral principles.	或者因为他相信绝对的道德原则
337	But in any case, no lots were drawn.	但无论如何,没有抽签。
338	The next day there was still no ship in sight,	第二天仍然没有船在望
339	Dudley告诉Brooks别盯着他他向Stevens移动了
340	that the boy Parker had better be killed.	帕克的男孩最好被杀了
341	Dudley offered a prayer.	达德利提出祈祷.
342	He told the boy his time had come and he killed him with a penknife,	他告诉那个男孩他的时间已经到来他用小刀杀了他
343	stabbing him in the jugular vein.	刺其颈脉.
344	Brooks emerged from his conscientious objection to share in the gruesome bounty.	布鲁克斯从出于良心拒绝分享令人发指的赏金中脱颖而出.
345	For four days, the three of them fed on the body and blood of the cabin boy.	在4天的时间里,他们三人以小屋男孩的身体和血液为食.
346	True story.	真实的故事。
347	And then they were rescued.	后被救出.
348	Dudley describes their rescue in his diary with staggering euphemism,	达德利在日记中以惊人的委婉语描述他们的营救,
349	quote, on the 24th day as we were having our breakfast,	引用一下,第24天我们吃早餐的时候,
350	a ship appeared at last.	船终于出现了
351	The three survivors were picked up by a German ship.	三名幸存者被一艘德国船只接走.
352	They were taken back to Falmouth in England where they were arrested and tried.	他们被带回英国的法尔茅斯,在那里被逮捕和审判.
353	Brooks turned states witness.	布鲁克斯成为州证人。
354	Dudley and Stevens went to trial.	达德利和史蒂文斯受审.
355	They didn't dispute the facts.	他们并没有质疑事实。
356	They claimed they had acted out of necessity.	他们声称他们出于必要采取行动。
357	That was their defense.	那是他们的辩护
358	They argued, in effect, better that one should die so that three could survive.	他们实际上认为,最好让一个人死,这样三人才能生存。
359	The prosecutor wasn't swayed by that argument.	公诉人没有被这个论点动摇.
360	He said murder is murder and so the case went to trial.	他说谋杀是谋杀所以案件被审判了
361	Now imagine you are the jury.	现在想象一下你是陪审团
362	And just to simplify the discussion, put aside the question of law.	为了简化讨论把法律问题放在一边
363	Let's assume that you as the jury are charged with deciding	假设你作为陪审团负责决定
364	whether what they did was morally permissible or not.	他们的所作所为在道德上是否允许。
365	How many would vote not guilty that what they did was morally permissible?	有多少人不会认为他们的所作所为在道德上是允许的?
366	And how many would vote guilty that what they did was morally wrong?	有多少人会认为他们的所作所为在道德上是错误的?
367	A pretty sizable majority.	相当的多数
368	Now let's see what people's reasons are.	现在来看看人们的理由是什么.
369	And let me begin with those who are in the minority.	首先让我谈谈那些属于少数的人。
370	Let's hear first from the defense of Dudley and Stevens.	让我们先从杜德利和史蒂文斯的辩护中听到.
371	Why would you morally exonerate them?	你为什么在道义上免除他们的罪责?
372	What are your reasons?	你的理由为何?
373	Yes.	对
374	I think it is morally reprehensible,	我认为这是道德上应受谴责的,
375	but I think that there is a distinction between what's morally reprehensible	但我认为在道德上应受谴责的东西是有区别的
376	and what makes someone legally accountable.	是什么使一个人法律责任。
377	In other words, as the judge said, what's always moral isn't necessarily against the law.	换句话说,正如法官所说,总是道德的东西不一定违法.
378	And while I don't think that necessity justifies theft or murder or any illegal act,	虽然我不认为必要性可以证明偷窃、谋杀或任何非法行为是正当的,
379	at some point your degree of necessity does in fact exonerate you from any guilt.	在某些时候,你的必然性实际上是免除你的任何罪责。
380	Okay, good.	好吧,不错。
381	Other defenders, other voices for the defense.	其他维权者其他维权者的声音
382	Moral justifications for what they did.	道德解释他们做了什么。
383	All right, thank you.	好吧,谢谢你。
384	I just feel like in a situation that desperate, you have to do what you have to do to survive.	我只是觉得在那种绝望的情况下你必须做你该做的才能生存
385	You have to do what you have to do.	须作如是事.
386	You got to do what you got to do, pretty much.	你得做你该做的, 相当多。
387	If you've been going 19 days without any food, you know, someone just has to take the sacrifice,	如果你已经走了19天没有任何食物, 你知道,有人只需要承担牺牲,
388	someone has to make the sacrifice and people can survive.	得有人去牺牲人民才能生存
389	And furthermore, from that, let's say they survive and then they become productive members of society	并且,从这个开始,让我们假设他们生存下来,然后他们成为社会的生产成员。
390	who go home and start like a million charity organizations and this and that and this and that.	回到家像一百万个慈善组织以及这个和那个
391	I mean, they benefit everybody in the end.	我是说,他们最终对每个人都有好处。
392	I mean, I don't know what they did afterwards.	我不知道他们后来做了什么
393	They might have gone and like, I don't know, killed more people.	他们可能走了我不知道杀了更多人
394	Whatever.	随便吧
395	What?	你说什么?
396	What if they went home and they turned out to be assassins?	要是他们回家成了刺客怎么办?
397	What if they went home and turned out to be assassins?	如果他们回家变成刺客怎么办?
398	You'd want to know who they assassinated.	你会想知道他们暗杀了谁
399	That's true, too.	亦如是说.
400	That's fair.	这很公平。
401	Okay.	摆
402	I want to know who they assassinated.	我想知道他们暗杀了谁
403	All right, that's good.	好吧,这是很好的。
404	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
405	Marcus.	马库斯
406	All right.	好吧,我们走。
407	A couple of voices for the defense.	几声为辩.
408	Now we need to hear from the prosecution.	现在我们需要检方的消息
409	Most people think what they did was wrong.	大多数人认为他们的所作所为是错误的.
410	Why?	为什么?
411	Yes.	对
412	One of the first things that I was thinking was, oh, if they haven't been eating for a really long time,	我首先想到的一件事是,哦, 如果他们已经吃了很多年,
413	maybe they're mentally, like, affected.	也许他们是精神上,喜欢,受到影响。
414	And so then that could be used as a defense, a possible argument that, oh,	因此,这可以用作辩护, 一个可能的论点,哦,
415	they weren't in the proper state of mind, they weren't making decisions they might otherwise be making.	他们没有在正确的状态, 他们没有做决定他们可能正在做。
416	And if that's an appealing argument, that you have to be in an altered mindset to do something like that,	如果这是个有吸引力的争论, 你必须在改变的心态做类似的事情,
417	it suggests that people who find that argument convincing do think that they were acting immorally.	它表明,那些认为这一论点令人信服的人确实认为他们的行为不道德。
418	But I want to know what you think.	但我想知道你的看法。
419	You defend them.	你为他们辩护。
420	Yeah.	对
421	I'm sorry.	对不起
422	You vote to convict, right?	你投给罪犯,对吧?
423	Yeah.	对
424	I don't think that they acted in a morally appropriate way.	我认为他们的行为在道德上是不恰当的.
425	And why not?	为什么不呢?
426	What do you say?	你说什么?
427	Here's Marcus.	这是马库斯。
428	He just defended them.	他只是替他们辩护
429	He said, you heard what he said.	他说,你听到他说的。
430	Yes.	对
431	That you've got to do what you've got to do in a case like that.	你必须做你必须做的在类似的情况。
432	Yeah.	对
433	What do you say to Marcus?	你对马库斯怎么说?
434	That there's no situation that would allow human beings to take the idea of fate	没有任何情况可以让人类接受命运
435	or that the other people's lives in their own hands, that we don't have that kind of power.	或者其他人的性命掌握在他们手中我们没有这种权力
436	Good.	不错
437	Okay.	摆
438	Thank you.	谢谢
439	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
440	Britt.	布莱特
441	Britt?	布丽特?
442	Yes.	对
443	Okay.	摆
444	Who else?	还有谁?
445	What do you say?	你说什么?
446	Stand up.	站起来
447	I'm wondering if Dudley and Stephen had asked for Richard Parker's consent in, you know,	我想知道杜德利和史蒂芬是否要求理查德・帕克的同意
448	dying.	临终.
449	Would that exonerate them from an act of murder?	这能让他们免于谋杀吗?
450	And if so, is that still morally justifiable?	如果是这样,这在道义上还是有道理的?
451	That's interesting.	这很有趣。
452	All right.	好吧,我们走。
453	Consent.	同意同意吗
454	Let's wait.	让我们等待。
455	Wait.	单单
456	Hang on.	坚持住。
457	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
458	Kathleen.	凯瑟琳
459	Kathleen says, suppose they had asked.	凯瑟琳说,假设他们问。
460	What would that scenario look like?	那会是什么情况?
461	So in the story, Dudley is there, penknife in hand.	所以在故事里,杜德利就在那里,手持笔刀.
462	But instead of the prayer or before the prayer, he says, Parker, would you mind?	但他说,帕克,你介意吗?
463	We're desperately hungry, as Marcus empathizes with.	马库斯很同情我们
464	We're desperately hungry.	我们快饿死了
465	You're not going to last long anyhow.	反正你撑不了多久的
466	Yeah.	对
467	You can be a martyr.	你可以当烈士
468	Would you be a martyr?	你会成为烈士吗?
469	How about it, Parker?	怎么样,帕克?
470	Then, what do you think?	那你觉得呢?
471	Would it be morally justified then?	那么这在道义上是否合理?
472	Suppose Parker, in his semi stupor, says, OK.	假设Parker在半脑筋里说
473	I don't think it would be morally justifiable.	我不认为这在道德上是正当的。
474	But I'm wondering.	但是,我在想,为什么?
475	Even then.	即便当时.
476	Even then it wouldn't be.	即使那样也不可能
477	No.	没有
478	You don't think that even with consent, it would be morally justified.	你不认为,即使得到同意,这在道德上也是合理的。
479	Are there people who think, who want to take up Kathleen's consent idea and who think that	是否有人想,谁想接受凯瑟琳的同意想法
480	that would make it morally justified?	这会使它在道德上合理吗?
481	Raise your hand if it would.	举手吧
482	If you think it would.	如果你认为会
483	That's very interesting.	这很有趣。
484	Why would consent make a moral difference?	为什么同意会改变道德?
485	Why would it?	为什么?
486	Yes.	对
487	Well, I just think that if he was making his own original idea and it was his idea to start	好吧,我只是认为如果他是自己的想法这是他的主意开始
488	with, then that would be the only situation in which I would see it being appropriate	那么那是我唯一认为合适的情况
489	in any way.	无论如何。
490	Because that way you couldn't make the argument that he was pressured.	因为那样你就不能说他受到压力了
491	You know, it's three to one or whatever the ratio was.	你知道,这是三对一或者无论比例是什么。
492	Right.	对
493	And I think that if he was making a decision to give his life, then he took on the agency	我想如果他决定献出自己的生命然后他接了这个机构
494	to sacrifice himself, which some people might see as admirable.	牺牲自己, 一些人可能认为这是令人钦佩的。
495	And other people might disagree with that decision.	其他人可能不同意这一决定。
496	So if he came up with the idea that's the only kind of consent we could have confidence	所以,如果他想出的想法这是唯一的一种同意我们可以有信心
497	in morally, then it would be OK.	在道德上,那就没事了
498	Otherwise, it would be kind of coerced consent under the circumstances.	否则,在这种情况下将是一种强迫同意。
499	You think.	你觉得呢?
500	Is there anyone who thinks that even the consent of Parker would not justify their killing	有没有人认为即使得到帕克的同意也没有理由杀死他们
501	him?	他吗?
502	Who thinks that?	谁这么认为?
503	Yes.	对
504	Tell us why.	告诉我为什么。
505	Stand up.	站起来
506	I think that Parker would be killed with the hope that the other crew members would be	我认为帕克会被杀希望其他船员会是
507	rescued.	获救。
508	There's no definite reason that he should be killed, because you don't know when they're	他不应该被杀因为你不知道什么时候
509	going to get rescued.	会被救出来
510	So if you kill him, it's killing him in vain.	故若杀之,乃枉杀之.
511	Do you keep killing the crew member until you're rescued and then you're left with no	你是否一直杀死船员直到你被救出来之后你就会离开
512	one?	一个?
513	Because someone's going to die eventually.	因为总有一天有人会死的
514	Well, the moral logic of the situation seems to be that, that they would keep on picking	嗯,这个状况的道德逻辑似乎是, 他们会继续选择
515	off the weakest, maybe, one by one, until they were rescued.	离开最弱者,也许,一个接一个,直到他们获救。
516	And in this case, luckily, they were rescued when three, at least, were still alive.	在此情况下,幸运的是,他们被救出,至少三个人还活着。
517	Now, if Parker did give his consent, would it be all right, do you think, or not?	现在,如果Parker真的同意了, 会不会没事, 你觉得呢?
518	No.	没有
519	It still wouldn't be right.	这还是不对的
520	And tell us why it wouldn't be all right.	告诉我们为什么不好。
521	First of all, cannibalism, I believe, is morally incorrect.	首先,我认为食人主义在道德上是不正确的。
522	So you shouldn't be eating a human anyway.	所以,你不应该吃一个人类反正。
523	So cannibalism is morally objectionable.	所以食人主义在道德上是令人厌恶的.
524	So then, even on the scenario of waiting until someone died, still it would be objectionable.	因此,即便在等待某人死亡的情况下,它仍然会引起反对。
525	Yes.	对
526	To me, personally.	对我个人来说
527	I feel like it all depends on one's personal morals.	我觉得一切取决于个人道德
528	And, like, we can't sit here and just, like, this is just my opinion.	我们不能坐在这里,而这只是我的看法
529	Of course, other people are going to disagree.	当然,其他人会不同意。
530	Well, we'll see.	好吧,我们会看到。
531	Let's see what their disagreements are, and then we'll see if they have reasons that can	看看他们的分歧是什么然后我们看看他们是否有理由
532	persuade you or not.	说服你与否。
533	Let's try that.	让我们试试。
534	All right.	好吧,我们走。
535	Let's, now, is there someone who can explain, those of you who are tempted by consent, can	让我们,现在,有人谁可以解释, 你们中谁诱惑同意,可以
536	you explain why consent makes such a moral difference?	你解释为什么同意会改变道德吗?
537	What about the lottery idea?	那彩票的点子呢?
538	Does that count as consent?	这算不算同意?
539	Remember, at the beginning, Dudley proposed a lottery.	记住,一开始,杜德利提出彩票.
540	Suppose that they had agreed to a lottery.	假设他们同意了彩票
541	Then, how many would then say it was all right?	那么,有多少人会说它没事?
542	Suppose there were a lottery, cabin boy lost, and the rest of the story unfolded.	假设有一个彩票,小屋男孩输了, 其他的故事展开。
543	Then how many people would say it was morally permissible?	那么有多少人会说这在道德上是允许的?
544	So the numbers are rising if we had a lottery.	如果我们有彩票,数字就会上升。
545	Let's hear from one of you, for whom the lottery would make a moral difference.	让我们听听你们中的一个, 彩票会给谁带来道德上的改变。
546	Why would it?	为什么?
547	I think the essential element, in my mind, that makes it a crime is the idea that they	我认为,在我脑海里, 使它成为犯罪的基本元素是他们的想法
548	decided at some point that their lives were more important than his, and that, I mean,	在某个时候决定他们的生命比他更重要我是说
549	that's kind of the basis for really any crime, right?	这是真正犯罪的基础,对不对?
550	It's like, my needs, my desires are more important than yours, and mine take precedent.	就像,我的需要,我的欲望比你更重要, 我的先例。
551	And if they had done a lottery where everyone consented that someone should die, and it's	如果他们投了彩票大家都同意有人会死
552	sort of like they're all sacrificing themselves to save the rest.	好像他们都在牺牲自己来拯救其他人
553	Then it would be all right.	那就没事了
554	A little grotesque, but...	有点奇怪,但是...
555	But morally permissible?	但道德上允许?
556	Yes.	对
557	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
558	Matt.	马特。
559	So, Matt, for you, what bothers you is not the cannibalism, but the lack of due process.	所以,马特,对你来说,你烦恼的不是食人,而是缺乏正当程序。
560	I guess you could say that, right?	我想你可以说,对不对?
561	And can someone who agrees with Matt say a little bit more about why a lottery would	有人同意马特的话可以多说一点为什么彩票会
562	make it, in your view, morally permissible?	让你觉得道德上允许吗?
563	Go ahead.	来吧。
564	The way I understood it originally was that that was the whole issue, is that the cabin	我最初的理解是,这是整个问题,是小屋
565	boy was never consulted about whether or not something was going to happen to him, even	男孩从来没有被咨询他会不会出事,甚至
566	with the original lottery, whether or not he would be a part of that.	和原彩票, 是否他将成为其中的一部分。
567	It was just decided that he was the one that was going to die.	刚决定他就是那个要死的人
568	Right.	对
569	That's what happened in the actual case.	实案亦如此.
570	Right.	对
571	But if there were a lottery, and they had all agreed to the procedure, you think that	但如果有彩票他们都同意这个程序你就会认为
572	would be okay?	不会有事吧?
573	Right.	对
574	Because then everyone knows that there's going to be a death.	因为那样大家就会知道会有死亡
575	Whereas, you know, the cabin boy didn't know that this discussion was even happening.	但是,你知道,小木屋男孩不知道这个讨论甚至正在发生。
576	There was no, you know, forewarning for him to know that, hey, I may be the one that's	没有,你知道,前警告他知道,嘿,也许我是一个
577	dying.	临终.
578	All right.	好吧,我们走。
579	So he, everyone agrees to the lottery, they have the lottery, the cabin boy loses, and	所以,他,每个人都同意彩票, 他们有彩票,小屋男孩输了,
580	he changes his mind.	他改变主意了
581	You've already decided.	你已经决定了
582	It's like a verbal contract.	如是语约.
583	You can't go back on that.	你不能再这样了
584	You've decided the decision was made.	你已经决定了
585	You know, if you know that you're dying for the, you know, the reason for others to live,	你知道,如果你知道你正在死为,你知道,
586	you would, if someone else had died, you know that you would consume them.	你会的,如果有人死了, 你知道你会消耗他们。
587	So that's right.	故对曰.
588	But then he could say, I know, but I lost.	但他可以说,我知道,但我输了。
589	I just think that that's the whole moral issue, is that there was no consulting of the cabin	我只是觉得这是整个道德问题, 因为没有咨询小屋
590	boy, and that that's what makes it the most horrible, is that he had no idea what was	这才是最恐怖的他根本不知道是什么
591	even going on.	甚至继续
592	That had he known what was going on, it would be a bit more understandable.	如果他知道发生了什么事情,那会比较容易理解。
593	All right.	好吧,我们走。
594	Good.	不错
595	Now I want to hear, so there are some who think it's morally permissible, but only about	现在我想听听,所以有些人认为这在道德上是允许的,但只谈
596	20%, led by Marcus.	20%,由马库斯领导.
597	Then there are some who say, the real problem here is the lack of consent, whether the lack	还有一些人说,真正的问题是缺乏同意,是否缺乏同意。
598	of consent to a lottery, to a fair procedure, or, Kathleen's idea, lack of consent at the	同意彩票公平程序或凯瑟琳的想法
599	moment of death.	死亡的时刻。
600	And if we add consent, then more people are willing to consider the sacrifice morally	如果我们同意, 那么更多的人愿意考虑在道德上牺牲
601	justified.	正当的。
602	I want to hear now, finally, from those of you who think, even with consent, even with	现在,我终于想听听你们中那些认为,即使同意,甚至同意
603	a lottery, even with a final murmur of consent by Parker, at the very last moment, it would	彩票,即使得到帕克最后的认可在最后一刻,它会
604	still be wrong.	还是错了
605	And why would it be wrong?	为什么会这样?
606	That's what I want to hear.	这就是我想听到的。
607	Yes.	对
608	Well, the whole time I've been leaning all towards the categorical moral reasoning, and	嗯,一直以来,我一直倾斜所有的道德推理,
609	I think that there's a possibility I'd be okay with the idea of a lottery, and then	我觉得我可能会接受彩票的想法然后
610	the loser taking into their own hands to kill themselves, so that there wouldn't be an	输家自己动手自杀这样就不会有
611	act of murder.	谋杀行为。
612	But I still think that even that way, it's coerced.	但我仍然认为,即使这样,它也是被胁迫的。
613	And also, I don't think that there is any remorse.	还有,我不认为有任何悔恨。
614	Like in Dudley's diary, we were eating our breakfast.	就像Dudley的日记里一样我们在吃早餐
615	It seems as though he's just sort of like, oh, the whole idea of not valuing someone	似乎他只是有点, 哦,整个想法不重视某人
616	else's life.	别人的生活。
617	So that makes me feel like I have to take the categorical...	这让我感觉我必须接受...
618	You want to throw the book at him?	你想把书扔给他吗?
619	When he lacks remorse or a sense of having done anything wrong.	当他缺乏悔恨感或者没有做错任何事的感觉时.
620	Right.	对
621	So, all right, good.	所以,没事,很好。
622	Other, any other defenders of, who say it's just categorically wrong, with or without	其他,任何其他维护者, 谁说这是完全错误的, 有或不
623	consent?	同意吗?
624	Yes.	对
625	Stand up.	站起来
626	Why?	为什么?
627	I think undoubtedly the way our society is shaped, murder is murder.	我认为,毫无疑问,我们社会的形式,谋杀就是谋杀。
628	Murder is murder in every way.	谋杀就是谋杀
629	The way our society looks at murder down in the same light, and I don't think it's any	我们社会在同一个光线下看待谋杀的方式我觉得这根本不是
630	different in any case.	在任何情况下都不一样。
631	Good.	不错
632	Let me ask you a question.	让我问你一个问题。
633	There were three lives at stake versus one.	有三条生命处于危险之中,对一。
634	Okay.	摆
635	The one, the cabin boy, he had no family.	那个小木屋男孩他没有家人
636	He had no dependents.	他没有家属
637	These other three had families back home in England.	这三人在英国有家人
638	They had dependents.	他们有家属。
639	They had wives and children.	他们有妻子和孩子。
640	Think back to Bentham.	回想本达姆.
641	Bentham says we have to consider the welfare, the utility, the happiness of everybody.	本特姆说我们必须考虑每个人的福利,效用,幸福.
642	We have to add it all up.	我们必须加起来。
643	So, it's not just numbers three against one.	所以,它不仅仅是数字三对一。
644	It's also all of those people at home.	在家的那些人也是这样
645	In fact, the London newspaper at the time and Popular Opinion sympathized with them,	事实上,当时的伦敦报纸和大众舆论都同情他们,
646	Dudley and Stevens.	达德利和史蒂文斯。
647	And the paper said if they weren't motivated by affection and concern for their loved ones	报纸上说,如果他们不是出于对亲人的爱和关心
648	at home and their dependents, surely they wouldn't have done this.	在家里和他们的家属, 他们肯定不会这样做。
649	Yeah.	对
650	And how is that any different from people on the corner trying to have the same desire	和街角上的人有什么不同吗?
651	to feed their family?	养家糊口?
652	I don't think it's any different.	亦无分别.
653	I think in any case, if I'm murdering you to advance my status, that's murder.	我认为无论如何,如果我谋杀你提升我的地位,这就是谋杀。
654	And I think that we should look at that all in the same light.	我认为我们应该从同一个角度来看待这些。
655	Instead of criminalizing certain activities and making certain things seem more violent	而不是将某些活动定为犯罪,使某些东西看起来更加暴力
656	and savage, when in the same case, it's all the same.	和野蛮人, 当在同一个情况, 它都是一样的。
657	It's all the same act and mentality that goes into murder, the necessity to feed your family.	这都是同样的行为和心态进入谋杀, 需要养活你的家人。
658	Suppose it weren't three.	假设不是三个
659	Suppose it were 30.	假设是30岁
660	Three hundred.	三百块
661	One life to save three hundred.	一命救三百众.
662	We're in wartime.	我们在战时
663	Three thousand.	三千户.
664	Suppose the stakes are even bigger.	如果赌注更大的话
665	I think it's still the same deal.	我觉得还是一样
666	Do you think Bentham is wrong to say the right thing to do is to add up the collective happiness?	你认为本塔姆说正确的话是不是错的,就是把集体的幸福加起来?
667	Do you think he's wrong about that?	你觉得他错了吗?
668	I don't think he's wrong, but I think murder is murder in any case.	我不认为他错了但我认为谋杀是谋杀
669	Well, then Bentham has to be wrong.	那么本塔姆一定错了
670	If you're right, he's wrong.	如果你是对的他就错了
671	Okay, he's wrong.	好吧,他错了。
672	All right.	好吧,我们走。
673	Thank you.	谢谢
674	Well done.	干得不错
675	All right.	好吧,我们走。
676	Let's step back from this discussion and notice how many objections have we heard to what they did.	让我们从这次讨论后退一步,注意到我们听到多少反对他们做了什么.
677	We heard some defenses of what they did.	我们听到一些辩护他们做了什么。
678	The defenses had to do with necessity, their dire circumstance, and implicitly at least, the idea that numbers matter.	辩护与必要性、危急情况以及至少暗含的数字重要的概念有关。
679	And not only numbers matter, but the wider effects matter.	不仅数字重要,而且更广泛的影响也重要。
680	Their families back home, their dependents.	其家人归家,其眷属也.
681	Parker was an orphan.	帕克是一个孤儿。
682	No one would miss him.	没有人会想念他。
683	So if you add up, if you tried to calculate the balance of happiness and suffering, you might have a case for saying what they did was the right thing.	因此,如果你加起来,如果你试图计算幸福和痛苦的平衡, 你可能有一个理由说,他们做了什么是正确的事情。
684	Then we heard at least three different types of objections.	然后我们至少听到三种不同的反对。
685	We heard an objection that said what they did was categorically wrong, Mike here at the end, categorically wrong.	我们听到一个反对说他们的所作所为是绝对错误的, 迈克在这里最后,绝对错误。
686	Murder is murder, it's always wrong, even if it increases the overall happiness of society.	谋杀就是谋杀,它总是错误的,即使它能增加社会的整体幸福.
687	A categorical objection.	绝对反对。
688	But we still need to investigate why murder is categorically wrong.	但我们仍然需要调查为什么谋杀绝对是错误的。
689	Is it because even cabin boys have certain fundamental rights?	是因为连小屋男孩都有某些基本权利吗?
690	And if that's the reason, where do those rights come from, if not from some idea of the larger welfare or utility or happiness?	如果这就是原因, 这些权利来自哪里, 如果不是从某种更大的福利或效用或幸福的想法?
691	Question number one.	问曰.
692	Others said a lottery would make a difference, a fair procedure, Matt said.	马特说,其他人说彩票会有所作为,是一种公平的程序。
693	But, and some people were swayed by that.	但是,有些人为此摇摆不定。
694	That's not a categorical objection exactly.	这不是绝对的反对
695	It's saying everybody has to be counted as an equal, even though at the end of the day one can be sacrificed for the general welfare.	意思是每个人都得被算作一个平等的,尽管在最后的一天,人们可以为了一般的福利而牺牲.
696	That leaves us with another question to investigate.	这就让我们有另一个问题要调查。
697	Why does agreement to a certain procedure, even a fair procedure, justify whatever result flows from the operation of that procedure?	为什么同意某种程序,甚至公平程序,就证明该程序的运作产生的任何结果是合理的?
698	Question number two.	第二问.
699	And question number three, the basic idea of consent.	第三问题,同意的基本思想。
700	Kathleen got us onto this.	凯瑟琳让我们知道这件事
701	If the cabin boy had agreed himself and not under duress, as was added, then it would be alright to take his life to save the rest.	如果小木屋男孩同意了而不是在胁迫下加上,那么就应该抢他的命来拯救剩下的人
702	And even more people signed on to that idea.	更多的人同意这个想法。
703	But that raises a third philosophical question.	但这提出了第三个哲学问题。
704	What is the moral work that consent does?	同意的道德工作是什么?
705	Why does an act of consent make such a moral difference that an act that would be wrong, taking a life without consent, is morally permissible with consent?	为什么同意行为会给道德带来如此不同的影响,以致于未经同意而夺取生命的错误行为在道德上是经同意允许的?
706	To investigate those three questions, we're going to have to read some philosophers.	为了调查这三个问题,我们要读一些哲学家.
707	And starting next time, we're going to read Bentham and John Stuart Mill, utilitarian philosophers.	从下次开始,我们要读本特姆和约翰·斯图尔特·米尔,功利主义哲学家.
708	Don't miss the chance to interact online with other viewers of Justice.	不要错过与司法界其他观众在线互动的机会.
709	Join the conversation. Take a pop quiz.	加入对话。做个流行测验
710	Watch lectures you've missed and learn a lot more.	看着你错过的讲座学到更多
711	请访问justiceharvard.org. 谓之正法.
712	Thank you.	谢谢
713	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
714	additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

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P3 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p03 2. 2.为生命标价 (P3)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p03 2. 2.为生命标价 (P3)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 20:50

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:06	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:10	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:15	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:30	Last time, we argued about the case of the Queen vs. Dudley and Stevens.	上次我们争论了皇后诉杜德利和史蒂文斯的案子
0:39	The lifeboat case, the case of cannibalism at sea.	救生艇案,海上食人案.
0:44	And with the arguments about the lifeboat in mind,	考虑到救生艇的争论
0:50	the arguments for and against what Dudley and Stevens did in mind,	和反对杜德利和史蒂文斯所想的
0:54	let's turn back to the philosophy,	让我们回到哲学,
0:58	the utilitarian philosophy of Jeremy Bentham.	杰里米·本塔姆的功利主义哲学.

展开字幕全文（233 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
2	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
3	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
4	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
5	Last time, we argued about the case of the Queen vs. Dudley and Stevens.	上次我们争论了皇后诉杜德利和史蒂文斯的案子
6	The lifeboat case, the case of cannibalism at sea.	救生艇案,海上食人案.
7	And with the arguments about the lifeboat in mind,	考虑到救生艇的争论
8	the arguments for and against what Dudley and Stevens did in mind,	和反对杜德利和史蒂文斯所想的
9	let's turn back to the philosophy,	让我们回到哲学,
10	the utilitarian philosophy of Jeremy Bentham.	杰里米·本塔姆的功利主义哲学.
11	Bentham was born in England in 1748.	本特姆1748年出生于英国.
12	At the age of 12, he went to Oxford.	12岁时就读于牛津大学.
13	At 15, he went to law school.	15岁就读于法学院.
14	He was admitted to the bar at age 19, but he never practiced law.	他19岁时进入酒吧,但从未执业.
15	Instead, he devoted his life to jurisprudence and moral philosophy.	相反,他毕生致力于法学和道德哲学.
16	Last time, we began to consider Bentham's version of utilitarianism.	上次,我们开始考虑本塔姆的功利主义版本.
17	The main idea is simply stated, and it's this.	其主要思想是简单阐述的,就是这个.
18	The highest principle of morality,	道德的最高原则,
19	whether personal or political morality,	无论是个人道德还是政治道德,
20	is to maximize the general welfare,	最大限度地提高一般福利,
21	or the collective happiness,	或集体的幸福,
22	or the overall balance of pleasure over pain,	或快乐与痛苦的总体平衡,
23	in a phrase, maximize utility.	在一个短语中,最大限度地发挥效用。
24	Bentham arrives at this principle by the following line of reasoning.	本特姆通过以下推理得出了这一原则.
25	We're all governed by pain and pleasure.	皆受苦乐所化.
26	They are our sovereign masters.	他们是我们的主权主人。
27	And so any moral system has to take account of them.	因此,任何道德制度都必须考虑到他们。
28	How best to take account? By maximizing.	如何最好地考虑? 通过最大化。
29	And this leads to the principle of the greatest good for the greatest number.	这导致了最大利益对最大数量的原则.
30	What exactly should we maximize?	我们究竟应该最大限度地做些什么?
31	Bentham tells us, happiness, or more precisely, utility.	本特姆告诉我们,幸福,或者更确切地说,实用。
32	Maximizing utility is a principle not only for individuals,	最大限度地发挥效用不仅是个人的一项原则,
33	but also for communities and for legislators.	但也是为了社区和立法者。
34	What, after all, is a community? Bentham asks.	毕竟社区是什么? 本答问.
35	It's the sum of the individuals who comprise it.	是组成它的个体的总和.
36	And that's why, in deciding the best policy,	这就是为什么在决定最佳政策时
37	in deciding what the law should be,	决定什么是法律,
38	in deciding what's just,	在决定什么是正义,
39	citizens and legislators should ask themselves the question,	公民和立法者应该问自己这个问题,
40	if we add up all of the benefits of this policy	如果我们把这项政策的所有好处加起来
41	and subtract all of the costs,	并减去一切费用,
42	the right thing to do is the one that maximizes the balance of happiness over suffering.	做正确的事情是尽量平衡幸福和痛苦
43	That's what it means to maximize utility.	这就是最大化效用的意义.
44	Now, today, I want to see whether you agree or disagree with it.	今天,我想看看你是否同意还是不同意。
45	And it often goes, this utilitarian logic, under the name of cost-benefit analysis,	这种实用主义的逻辑往往以成本效益分析为名
46	which is used by companies and by governments all the time.	公司和政府经常使用
47	And what it involves is placing a value, usually a dollar value,	它涉及的是一个价值, 通常是美元价值,
48	to stand for utility on the costs and the benefits of various proposals.	(c) 主张对各种提案的成本和效益有用。
49	Recently, in the Czech Republic, there was a proposal to increase the excise tax on smoking.	最近,在捷克共和国,有人建议增加对吸烟的消费税。
50	Philip Morris, the tobacco company, does huge business in the Czech Republic.	菲利普·莫里斯(Philip Morris),烟草公司,在捷克从事巨大的业务.
51	They commissioned a study of cost-benefit analysis of smoking in the Czech Republic.	他们委托对捷克共和国吸烟的成本效益分析进行研究。
52	And what their cost-benefit analysis found was the government gains by having Czech citizens smoke.	他们的成本效益分析发现,政府通过让捷克公民吸烟而获得了收益。
53	Now, how do they gain?	现在,他们有什么好处?
54	It's true that there are negative effects to the public finance of the Czech government	捷克政府的公共财政确实受到不利影响
55	because there are increased health care costs for people who develop smoking-related diseases.	因为对于患与吸烟有关的疾病的人来说,保健费用有所增加。
56	On the other hand, there were positive effects, and those were added up on the other side of the ledger.	另一方面,也产生了积极的效果,这些结果被加到分类账的另一边。
57	The positive effects included, for the most part, various tax revenues that the government derives	其积极影响主要包括政府获得的各种税收收入。
58	from the sale of cigarette products, but it also included health care savings to the government	包括政府的医疗储蓄。
59	when people die early, pension savings, you don't have to pay pensions for as long,	当人们早死, 养老金储蓄, 你不必支付养老金这么久,
60	and also savings in housing costs for the elderly.	并节省老年人的住房费用。
61	And when all of the costs and benefits were added up, the Philip Morris study found	当所有成本和利益都加在一起后菲利普·莫里斯的研究发现
62	that there is a net public finance gain in the Czech Republic of $147 million.	捷克共和国的公共财政净收益为1.47亿美元。
63	And given the savings in housing and health care and pension costs,	并且考虑到在住房和医疗保健以及养老金费用方面的节省,
64	the government enjoys a savings of over $1200 for each person who dies prematurely due to smoking.	政府为每个因吸烟而过早死亡的人节省了1 200多美元。
65	Cost-benefit analysis.	成本效益分析。
66	Now, those among you who are defenders of utilitarianism may think that this is an unfair test.	现在,你们中那些维护功利主义的人可能认为这是不公平的考验。
67	Philip Morris was pilloried in the press, and they issued an apology for this heartless calculation.	Philip Morris在报纸上被打得一团糟他们为这个无情的计算结果道歉
68	You may say that what's missing here is something that the utilitarian can easily incorporate, namely,	你可以说这里所缺少的是功利主义者可以轻易纳入的东西,即,
69	the value to the person and to the families of those who die from lung cancer.	对肺癌患者的个人和家庭的价值。
70	What about the value of life?	那生命的价值呢?
71	Some cost-benefit analyses incorporate a measure for the value of life.	一些成本效益分析包括生命价值计量。
72	One of the most famous of these involved the Ford Pinto case.	其中最著名的一件涉及福特平托案.
73	Did any of you read about that? This was back in the 1970s.	你们有看过吗? 这回到了1970年代.
74	Do you remember what the Ford Pinto was, that kind of car? Anybody?	你还记得福特平托是什么吗? 有人吗?
75	It was a small car, a subcompact car, very popular.	这是一辆小车,一个子协议车,非常受欢迎.
76	But it had one problem, which is the fuel tank was at the back of the car,	但有一个问题燃料箱在车尾
77	and in rear collisions the fuel tank exploded.	燃料箱在后方碰撞中爆炸
78	And some people were killed and some severely injured.	一些人被杀,一些人受重伤。
79	Victims of these injuries took Ford to court to sue.	这些伤害的受害者将福特告上法庭起诉.
80	And in the court case it turned out that Ford had long since known about the vulnerable fuel tank	在法庭案件中福特早就知道易碎燃料箱
81	and had done a cost-benefit analysis to determine whether it would be worth it	并进行了成本效益分析,以确定是否值得
82	to put in a special shield that would protect the fuel tank and prevent it from exploding.	安装一个特殊的防护罩,保护燃料箱,防止燃料箱爆炸。
83	They did a cost-benefit analysis.	他们进行了成本效益分析。
84	The cost per part to increase the safety of the Pinto, they calculated at $11 per part.	提高平托号安全性的费用按每部分11美元计算.
85	And this was the cost-benefit analysis that emerged in the trial.	这是试验中出现的成本效益分析。
86	$11 per part at 12.5 million cars and trucks came to a total cost of $137 million to improve the safety.	每部分11美元,1 250万美元汽车和卡车,总费用1.37亿美元,用于改善安全。
87	But then they calculated the benefits of spending all this money on a safer car	但后来他们计算了把这些钱花在一辆更安全的汽车上的好处
88	and they counted 180 deaths and they assigned a dollar value, $200,000 per death.	他们统计了180人死亡并分配了一个美元值,每人死亡20万美元。
89	180 injuries, $67,000.	180人受伤,6.7万元.
90	And then the cost to repair, the replacement cost for 2,000 vehicles that would be destroyed without the safety device, $700 per vehicle.	然后是修理费用,2000辆没有安全装置就销毁的车辆的更换费用,每辆700美元。
91	So the benefits turned out to be only $49.5 million and so they didn't install the device.	结果收益只有4,950万美元,所以他们没有安装设备.
92	Needless to say, when this memo of the Ford Motor Company's cost-benefit analysis came out in the trial,	不用说当福特汽车公司的成本效益分析备忘录在审判中出来时
93	it appalled the jurors who awarded a huge settlement.	它震惊了陪审员谁授予一个巨大的和解。
94	Is this a counterexample to the utilitarian idea of calculating?	这是对计算功利主义思想的反比吗?
95	Because Ford included a measure of the value of life.	因为福特包含了生命价值的度量.
96	Now, who here wants to defend cost-benefit analysis from this apparent counterexample?	现在,谁想从这个明显的反例中为成本效益分析辩护?
97	Who has a defense?	谁有辩护权?
98	Or do you think this completely destroys the whole utilitarian calculus?	或者你认为这完全摧毁了整个功利微积分?
99	Yes.	对
100	Well, I think that once again they've made the same mistake the previous case did that they assigned a dollar value to human life	我认为他们再次犯了同样的错误之前的案子他们给人的生命分配了一个美元价值
101	and once again they failed to take account things like suffering and emotional losses by the families.	并且他们又一次没有考虑到诸如家人的痛苦和情感损失之类的事情。
102	I mean, families lost earnings but they also lost a loved one and that is more valued than $200,000.	我的意思是,家庭失去了收入,但他们也失去了一个爱人,价值超过20万美元。
103	Right. And wait, wait, wait. That's good. What's your name?	对且道个甚么. 这是很好的。你叫什么来着?
104	Julia Roto.	朱莉娅·罗托.
105	So if $200,000, Julie, is too low a figure because it doesn't include the loss of a loved one and the loss of those years of life,	因此如果20万,朱莉, 是一个太低的数字,因为它不包括失去一个亲人和那些年的生命损失,
106	what would be, what do you think would be a more accurate number?	你觉得更准确的数字是什么?
107	I don't believe I could give a number. I think that this sort of analysis shouldn't be applied to issues of human life.	我不相信我能给出一个数字。我认为这种分析不应该应用于人类生活的问题.
108	I think it can't be used monetarily.	我认为它不能被金钱使用。
109	So they didn't just put too low a number, Julie says.	Julie说他们不只是把数字放太低了
110	They were wrong to try to put any number at all.	他们想把任何号码都放错
111	All right, let's hear someone who...	好吧,让我们听到有人谁...
112	You have to adjust for inflation.	你要适应通货膨胀
113	All right. Fair enough. So what would the number be now?	好吧,我们走。不错号码是多少?
114	This was 35 years ago.	这是35年前。
115	$2 million. You would put $2 million. And what's your name?	两百万你会投入200万美元。你叫什么来着?
116	Wojtek says we have to allow for inflation. We should be more generous.	Wojtek说,我们必须允许通货膨胀。我们应该更加慷慨
117	Then would you be satisfied that this is the right way of thinking about the question?	那你会满意吗? 这是思考这个问题的正确方式?
118	I guess, unfortunately, there needs to be a number put somewhere.	我想,不幸的是, 需要有一个数字的地方。
119	I'm not sure what that number would be, but I do agree that there could possibly be a number put on human life.	我不知道那号码会是多少但我也同意可能会有数字用于人的生命
120	All right. So Wojtek says, and here he disagrees with Julie,	好吧,我们走。所以Wojtek说, 在这里他不同意朱莉,
121	Julie says we can't put a number on human life for the purpose of a cost benefit analysis.	朱莉说,我们不能为了成本效益分析的目的,把数字放在人的生命上.
122	Wojtek says we have to because we have to make decisions somehow.	Wojtek说我们必须这么做,因为我们必须做决定。
123	What do other people think about this? Is there anyone prepared to defend cost benefit analysis here?	别人怎么看? 这里有没有人愿意为成本效益分析辩护?
124	As accurate, as desirable? Yes? Go ahead.	准确的,像理想的吗? 是吗? 来吧。
125	I think that if Ford and other car companies didn't use cost benefit analysis,	我认为如果福特和其他汽车公司不使用成本效益分析,
126	they'd eventually go out of business because they wouldn't be able to be profitable	他们终究会退出生意因为他们无法赚钱
127	and millions of people wouldn't be able to use their cars to get the jobs, to put food on the table, to feed their children.	数百万人无法使用他们的汽车获得工作, 将食物放在桌子上, 养活他们的孩子。
128	So I think that if cost benefit analysis isn't employed, the greater good is sacrificed in this case.	所以,我认为如果不进行成本效益分析, 更大的好处就牺牲了。
129	All right. What's your name? Raoul.	好吧,我们走。你叫什么来着? 拉乌尔
130	Raoul. There was recently a study done about cell phone use by drivers when people are driving a car.	拉乌尔最近对司机在开车时使用手机的情况进行了研究。
131	And there's a debate whether that should be banned.	是否应该禁止也存在争论.
132	And the figure was that some 2,000 people die as a result of accidents each year using cell phones.	这个数字是,每年约有2,000人死于使用手机的事故。
133	And yet the cost benefit analysis, which was done by the Center for Risk Analysis at Harvard,	但哈佛风险分析中心所做的成本效益分析
134	found that if you look at the benefits of the cell phone use and you put some value on the life,	发现如果你看看手机的优点并给生命带来一些价值
135	it comes out about the same because of the enormous economic benefit of enabling people to take advantage of their time,	因为它带来了巨大的经济利益让人们能够利用自己的时间,
136	not waste time, be able to make deals and talk to friends and so on while they're driving.	不要浪费时间, 能够做交易和朋友谈话等等当他们开车。
137	Doesn't that suggest that it's a mistake to try to put monetary figures on questions of human life?	这难道不表明试图把金钱数字放在人的生命问题上是错误的吗?
138	Well, I think that if the great majority of people try to derive maximum utility out of the service,	我想如果绝大多数人想从服务中获得最大效用
139	like using cell phones and the convenience that cell phones provide, that sacrifice is necessary for satisfaction to occur.	就像使用手机和手机提供的方便, 牺牲是满足的必要条件。
140	You're an outright utilitarian.	你是个纯粹的功利主义者
141	Yes. Okay.	对 摆
142	All right. Then one last question, Raoul.	好吧,我们走。还有最后一个问题拉乌尔
143	Okay.	摆
144	我把这个给Wojtek。
145	What dollar figure should be put on human life to decide whether to ban the use of cell phones?	人类生活中应该用多少美元来决定是否禁止使用手机?
146	Well, I don't want to arbitrarily calculate a figure.	我不想任意计算一个数字
147	I mean, right now, I think that...	我的意思是,现在,我认为...
148	You want to take it under advisement?	你想接受建议吗?
149	Yeah, I'll take it under advisement.	是的,我会接受它的建议。
150	But what, roughly speaking, would it be?	但是,大致来说,会是什么?
151	You've got 2,300 deaths.	你死了2300个
152	You've got to assign a dollar value to know whether you want to prevent those deaths by banning the use of cell phones in cars.	你得花一美元才能知道是否要禁止汽车使用手机来防止这些死亡。
153	Okay.	摆
154	So what would your hunch be?	那你的直觉是什么?
155	How much?	多少钱?
156	A million? Two million?	一百万吗? 两百万?
157	Two million was Wojtek's figure.	两百万是沃伊泰克的数字
158	Yeah.	对
159	Is that about right?	是吗?
160	Maybe a million.	也许一百万。
161	A million?	一百万吗?
162	Yeah.	对
163	You know, that's good. Thank you.	你知道,这是很好的。谢谢
164	Okay.	摆
165	So these are some of the controversies that arise these days from cost-benefit analysis,	因此,这些是最近从成本效益分析中产生的一些争议,
166	especially those that involve placing a dollar value on everything to be added up.	特别是那些涉及给每件要加起来的东西加一美元价值。
167	Well, now I want to turn to your objections.	现在我想谈谈你的反对意见
168	To your objections, not necessarily to cost-benefit analysis specifically,	对你的反对意见, 不一定是成本效益分析,
169	because that's just one version of the utilitarian logic in practice today,	因为这只是今天实践中实用主义逻辑的一个版本,
170	but to the theory as a whole, to the idea that the right thing to do,	但对于整个理论, 对于一个想法, 正确的事情做,
171	the just basis for policy and law,	政策和法律的公正基础,
172	is to maximize utility.	目的是最大限度地发挥效用。
173	How many disagree with the utilitarian approach to law and to the common good?	有多少人不同意实用主义对法律和共同利益的态度?
174	How many agree with it?	有多少人同意这个说法?
175	So more agree than disagree.	所以,更多的同意而不是异议。
176	So let's hear from the critics.	因此,让我们听听批评者。
177	Yes?	是吗?
178	My main issue with it is that I feel like you can't say that just because someone's in the minority,	我的主要问题是,我觉得你不能这么说只是因为某人在少数,
179	what they want and need is less valuable than someone who's in the majority.	他们想要和需要的东西比多数人要少
180	So I guess I have an issue with the idea that the greatest good for the greatest number is okay	所以我想我有一个问题关于一个想法, 最大的好处是最多是好
181	because there's still, what about people who are in the lesser number?	因为还有人数较少的人呢?
182	Like, it's not fair to them. They didn't have any say in where they wanted to be.	这对他们不公平他们没有发言权他们想去哪儿。
183	All right. That's an interesting objection.	好吧,我们走。这是一个有趣的反对。
184	Who is worried about the effect on the minority?	谁担心对少数民族的影响?
185	Yes.	对
186	What's your name, by the way?	对了,你叫什么名字?
187	Anna.	安娜,请问安娜
188	Who has an answer to Anna's worry about the effect on the minority?	安娜担心对少数民族的影响谁有答案?
189	What do you say to Anna?	你怎么跟安娜说?
190	She said that the minorities value less.	她说,少数群体的价值较低。
191	I don't think that's the case because individually the minority's value is just the same as the individual of the majority.	我认为情况并非如此,因为个人的少数派价值与多数派的个人价值一样.
192	It's just that the numbers outweigh the minority.	只是人数超过了少数
193	I mean, at a certain point you have to make a decision, and I'm sorry for the minority,	我的意思是,在某一时刻你必须做一个决定, 我很抱歉少数,
194	but sometimes it's for the general, for the greater good.	但有时是为了将军,为了大局
195	For the greater good. Anna, what's your name?	为大利益. 安娜,你叫什么来着?
196	Youngda.	杨达.
197	What do you say to Youngda?	你对英达怎么说?
198	Youngda says you just have to add up people's preferences,	英达说,你只需要增加人们的喜好,
199	and those in the minority do have their preferences weighed.	少数群体的偏好确实得到了考虑。
200	Can you give an example of the kind of thing you're worried about	你能举个例子吗? 你担心什么?
201	when you say you're worried about utilitarianism violating the concern or respect due to the minority?	你说你担心功利主义违反少数人的顾虑或尊重?
202	Can you give an example?	你能举个例子吗?
203	Well, with any of the cases that we've talked about, like for the Shipwreck one,	好吧,任何我们讨论过的案件, 就像沉船案一样,
204	I think the boy who was eaten still had as much of a right to live as the other people,	我觉得被吃掉的男孩仍然有权像其他人一样活着
205	just because he was the minority in that case, the one who maybe had less of a chance to keep living.	就因为他是那个案子的少数可能没有机会活下去的人
206	That doesn't mean that the others automatically have a right to eat him	这并不意味着其他人自动有吃他的权利
207	just because it would give a greater amount of people a chance to live.	因为它会给更多的人生存的机会。
208	So there may be certain rights that the minority members have, that the individual has,	因此,少数群体成员可能享有某些权利,个人可能拥有,
209	that shouldn't be traded off for the sake of utility.	不应该为了实用而交换
210	Yes, Anna? Youngda, this would be a test for you.	什么事,安娜吗? 杨达,这对你来说是个考验
211	Back in ancient Rome, they threw Christians to the lions in the Colosseum for sport.	早在古罗马时期,他们就把基督徒扔到Colosseum的狮子那里去参加运动.
212	If you think how the utilitarian calculus would go,	如果你觉得功利微积分会怎样
213	yes, the Christian thrown to the lion suffers enormous excruciating pain.	是的被扔到狮子身上的基督徒承受着巨大的痛苦
214	But look at the collective ecstasy of the Romans.	但看看罗马人的集体狂喜.
215	Youngda?	杨达?
216	Well, in that time, I don't – in modern day of time,	在那个时候,我不... 在现代的日子,
217	to value the – to give a number to the happiness given to the people watching,	珍惜给观众的幸福,
218	I don't think any policymaker would say the pain of one person –	我不认为任何决策者会说一个人的痛苦 -
219	the suffering of one person is much, much – in comparison to the happiness gained.	一个人的痛苦与获得的幸福相比是很多很多很多。
220	No, but you have to admit that if there were enough Romans delirious enough with happiness,	不,但你必须承认如果有足够的罗马人精神错乱和幸福,
221	it would outweigh even the most excruciating pain of a handful of Christians thrown to the lion.	这甚至会超过少数基督徒扔到狮子身上最痛苦的痛苦
222	And we really have here two different objections to utilitarianism.	我们在这里对功利主义有两种不同的反对。
223	One has to do with whether utilitarianism adequately respects individual rights or minority rights.	问题在于功利主义是否充分尊重个人权利或少数人权利。
224	And the other has to do with the whole idea of aggregating utility or preferences or values.	而另一个则与集合效用或偏好或价值的整个想法有关.
225	Is it possible to aggregate all values to translate them into dollar terms?	能否将所有数值汇总起来,将其转化为美元值?
226	There was, in the 1930s, a psychologist who tried to address this second question.	在20世纪30年代,有一个心理学家试图解决第二个问题。
227	He tried to prove what utilitarianism assumes that it is possible to translate all goods,	他试图证明什么功利主义假设它是可能的翻译所有商品,
228	all values, all human concerns into a single uniform measure.	所有价值观,所有人类关心的问题,都纳入一个统一的尺度。
229	And he did this by conducting a survey of young recipients of relief.	他通过对接受救济的年轻人进行调查来做到这一点。
230	This was in the 1930s.	这是在1930年代。
231	And he asked them – he gave them a list of unpleasant experiences.	他问他们,他给他们一份不愉快的经历的清单。
232	And he asked them, how much would you have to be paid to undergo the following experiences?	他问他们,你要付多少钱才能接受以下经历?
233	And he kept track.	他一直追踪着

该视频共有字幕 235 条。解锁更多字幕为会员功能，请移动到价格

P4 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p04 3. 3.选择的自由 (P4)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p04 3. 3.选择的自由 (P4)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 55:08

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:06	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:10	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:15	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:30	When we finished last time,	我们上次做完之后
0:35	We were looking at John Stuart Mill's attempt to reply	我们正看着约翰·斯图尔特·米尔试图回答
0:42	To the critics of Bentham's utilitarianism.	对本塔姆功利主义的批评者.
0:48	In his book, Utilitarianism,	在他的书,乌蒂利亚主义,
0:51	Mill tries to show that critics to the contrary,	米尔试图表明批评者相反,
0:55	It is possible within the utilitarian framework	在功利主义框架内是可能的

展开字幕全文（1220 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
2	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
3	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
4	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
5	When we finished last time,	我们上次做完之后
6	We were looking at John Stuart Mill's attempt to reply	我们正看着约翰·斯图尔特·米尔试图回答
7	To the critics of Bentham's utilitarianism.	对本塔姆功利主义的批评者.
8	In his book, Utilitarianism,	在他的书,乌蒂利亚主义,
9	Mill tries to show that critics to the contrary,	米尔试图表明批评者相反,
10	It is possible within the utilitarian framework	在功利主义框架内是可能的
11	To distinguish between higher and lower pleasures.	以分上下乐.
12	It is possible to make qualitative distinctions of worth.	可以作出价值的定性区分。
13	And we tested that idea	我们测试了这个想法
14	With the Simpsons and the Shakespeare excerpts.	与辛普森夫妇和莎士比亚节选.
15	And the results of our experiment	我们实验的结果
16	Seem to call into question	似乎有疑问
17	Mill's distinction.	米尔的区别。
18	Because a great many of you	因为你们很多人
19	Reported that you prefer the Simpsons,	报告你喜欢辛普森一家
20	But that you still consider Shakespeare	但你仍然认为莎士比亚
21	To be the higher or the worthier.	成为更高的或更有价值的。
22	Pleasure. That's the dilemma	幸会这就是难题所在
23	With which our experiment confronts Mill.	我们的实验面对米尔。
24	What about Mill's attempt to account	那米尔的企图呢?
25	For the specially weighty character	对于特别重的字符
26	Of individual rights and justice	个人权利和正义
27	In Chapter 5 of Utilitarianism?	在尤利塔主义的第五章?
28	He wants to say that individual rights	他想说个人权利
29	Are worthy of special respect.	值得特别的尊敬
30	In fact, he goes so far as to say that	事实上,他甚至说
31	Justice is the most sacred part	正义是最神圣的部分
32	And the most incomparably binding part of morality.	而道德中最无比的束缚部分.
33	But the same challenge could be put	但同样的挑战可以提出
34	To this part of Mill's defense.	为米勒的这个辩护部分.
35	Why is justice the chief part	为什么正义是最重要的
36	In the most binding part of all morality?	在所有道德中最有约束力的部分?
37	Well, he says because in the long run	他说因为从长远来看
38	If we do justice and if we respect rights,	如果我们伸张正义,如果我们尊重权利,
39	Society as a whole will be better off	整个社会都会好起来的
40	In the long run.	于长行中.
41	Well, what about that?	那怎么样?
42	What if we have a case where making an exception	要是我们有个破例呢?
43	And violating individual rights	侵犯个人权利
44	Will make people better off in the long run?	从长远来看会让人好过点吗?
45	Is it all right then to use people?	那用人可以吗?
46	And there's a further objection	还有人反对
47	That could be raised against	这可以针对
48	Mill's case for justice and rights.	米尔关于正义和权利的案子。
49	Suppose the utilitarian calculus in the long run	如果从长远来看是功利微积分
50	Works out as he says it will.	按他说的做
51	Such that respecting people's rights	尊重人民权利
52	Is a way of making everybody better off	是让大家都好起来的一种方式
53	In the long run.	于长行中.
54	Is that the right reason?	这是正确的理由吗?
55	Is that the only reason to respect people?	这是尊重人的唯一理由吗?
56	If the doctor goes in and yanks the organs	如果医生进去挖出器官
57	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}从那个来检查的病人那里
58	To save five lives,	为了拯救五条生命
59	There would be adverse effects in the long run.	从长远来看,会产生不利影响。
60	Eventually people would learn about this	最终人们会知道这一点
61	And would stop going in for checkups.	并且会停止去检查。
62	Is it the right reason?	这是正确的理由吗?
63	Is the only reason that you as the doctor	是你做医生的唯一原因
64	Won't yank the organs out of the healthy patient?	不把器官从健康病人身上拔出来吗?
65	That you think, well if I use him in this way,	你觉得,如果我用他的方式,
66	In the long run more lives will be lost?	从长远来看,会有更多的人丧生?
67	Or is there another reason?	还是还有别的理由?
68	Having to do with intrinsic respect	与内在尊重有关
69	For the person as an individual.	为个人.
70	And if that reason matters,	如果这个原因很重要的话
71	Then it's not so clear	那就没那么清楚了
72	That even Mill's utilitarianism	甚至米尔的功利主义
73	Can take account of it.	悉能顾及.
74	Fully to examine these two	完全检查这两个
75	Worries or objections	担忧或反对
76	To Mill's defense,	为了Mill的辩护
77	We need to push further.	我们需要进一步推进。
78	And we need to ask,	我们需要问,
79	In the case of higher or worthier pleasures,	在更高或更值得享受的情况下
80	Are there theories of the good life	有美好生活的理论吗?
81	That can provide independent moral standards	这可以提供独立的道德标准
82	For the worth of pleasures?	为了享受?
83	If so, what do they look like?	如果是的话,它们长什么样?
84	That's one question.	这是一个问题。
85	In the case of justice and rights,	在司法和权利方面,
86	If we suspect that Mill is implicitly leaning	如果我们怀疑米尔隐含着倾斜
87	On notions of human dignity	关于人的尊严概念
88	Or respect for a person that are not	或尊重一个不是
89	Strictly speaking utilitarian,	严格地说,功利主义者,
90	We need to look to see whether there are	我们需要看看是否有
91	Some stronger theories of rights	一些更强大的权利理论
92	That can explain the intuition	这能解释直觉
93	Which even Mill shares,	即使米尔也分享
94	The intuition that the reason	原因的直觉
95	For respecting individuals and not using them	为了尊重个人而不利用他们
96	Goes beyond even utility in the long run.	从长远来看,甚至超过效用。
97	Today we turn to one of those	今天,我们转向其中之一
98	Strong theories of rights.	强权论.
99	Strong theories of rights say	强烈的权利理论说
100	Individuals matter not just as instruments	个人不仅仅是工具
101	To be used for a larger social purpose	用于更大的社会目的
102	Or for the sake of maximizing utility.	或为尽功德故.
103	Individuals are separate beings	个人是分开的
104	With separate lives worthy of respect.	与诸众生分别受尊重.
105	And so it's a mistake,	所以这是个错误
106	According to strong theories of rights,	根据强烈的权利理论,
107	It's a mistake to think about justice or law	考虑正义或法律是错误的
108	By just adding up preferences and values.	只要把偏好和价值加起来
109	The strong rights theory we turn to today	今天我们讨论的强权理论
110	Is libertarianism.	是自由主义。
111	Libertarianism takes individual rights seriously.	自由主义严肃对待个人权利.
112	It's called libertarianism because it says	这叫做自由主义因为它说
113	The fundamental individual right	个人基本权利
114	Is the right to liberty.	这是自由的权利。
115	Precisely because we are separate individual beings	正是因为我们是单独的个体
116	We're not available to any use	我们没有任何用处
117	That the society might desire or devise.	社会可能渴望或设计。
118	Precisely because we are individual	正是因为我们是个人
119	Separate human beings	分开的人
120	We have a fundamental right to liberty.	我们有自由的基本权利。
121	And that means	这意味着
122	A right to choose freely	自由选择的权利
123	To live our lives as we please	过我们所愿的生活
124	Provided we respect other people's rights	只要我们尊重别人的权利
125	To do the same.	为作如是事.
126	That's the fundamental idea.	这就是基本的想法。
127	Robert Nozick, one of the libertarian philosophers	罗伯特·诺兹克,自由哲学家之一
128	We read for this course puts it this way	我们读这门课时就这么说了
129	Individuals have rights.	个人享有权利。
130	So strong and far-reaching are these rights	这些权利如此有力和深远
131	That they raise the question of what if anything	他们问,如果有什么
132	The state may do.	州可能办.
133	So what does libertarianism say	自由主义怎么说?
134	About the role of government	关于政府的作用
135	Or of the state?	还是州里?
136	Well there are three things that most modern states do	现代国家有三件事要做
137	That on the libertarian theory of rights	关于自由主义的权利理论
138	Are illegitimate, are unjust.	非法的,不公正的
139	One of them is paternalist legislation.	其中之一是家长立法。
140	That's passing laws that protect people from themselves.	也就是通过法律来保护人们不受伤害.
141	Seat belt laws for example.	例如,安全带法。
142	Or motorcycle helmet laws.	或者摩托车头盔法
143	The libertarian says	自由主义者说
144	It may be a good thing if people wear seat belts	如果有人戴安全带,那或许是好事
145	But that should be up to them.	但这应该取决于他们。
146	And the state, the government	国家,政府
147	Has no business coercing them, us	没有生意强迫他们,我们
148	To wear seat belts by law.	依法系安全带.
149	It's coercion.	这是强迫。
150	So no paternalist legislation, number one.	所以没有家长立法,第一。
151	Number two, no morals legislation.	第二,没有道德立法。
152	Many laws try to promote the virtue of citizens.	许多法律试图促进公民的美德。
153	Or try to give expression to the moral values	或尝试表达道德价值
154	Of the society as a whole.	整个社会
155	Libertarians say that's also a violation	自由主义者说这也是违法的
156	Of the right to liberty.	自由权。
157	Take the example of, well a classic example	举个例子,好的典型的例子
158	Of legislation offered in the name of promoting morality	以提倡道德的名义提供的立法
159	Traditionally have been laws that prevent	传统上,法律是防止
160	Sexual intimacy between gays and lesbians.	男同性恋和女同性恋之间的性亲密关系.
161	The libertarian says	自由主义者说
162	Nobody else is harmed.	没有人受到伤害。
163	Nobody else's rights are violated.	其他人的权利受到侵犯。
164	So the state should get out of the business entirely	所以国家应该完全退出
165	Of trying to promote virtue or to enact morals legislation.	试图促进美德或制定道德立法。
166	And the third kind of law	还有第三种法律
167	Or policy that is ruled out	或者政策被排除
168	On the libertarian philosophy	关于自由主义哲学
169	Is any taxation or other policy	任何税收或其他政策
170	That serves the purpose of redistributing income or wealth	这符合重新分配收入或财富的目的
171	From the rich to the poor.	从富至贫.
172	Redistribution, if you think about it	重新分配,如果你考虑它
173	Says the libertarian is a kind of coercion.	说自由主义者是一种强迫.
174	What it amounts to is theft	相当于偷窃
175	By the state or by the majority	国家或多数
176	If we're talking about a democracy	如果我们说的是民主
177	From people who happen to do very well and earn a lot of money.	从人,偶然作得很好,赚了很多钱。
178	Now Nozick and other libertarians allow	现在诺兹克和其他自由主义者允许
179	That there can be a minimal state	可能有一个最低状态
180	That taxes people for the sake of what everybody needs	为了大家需要的东西给人课税
181	The national defense, police force, judicial system	国防、警察部队、司法系统
182	To enforce contracts and property rights	执行合同和财产权
183	But that's it.	但就是这样。
184	Now I want to get your reactions	现在我想得到你的反应
185	To this third feature	第三个特点
186	Of the libertarian view.	在自由主义的视野。
187	I want to see who among you	我想看看你们中间是谁
188	Agree with that idea and who disagree and why.	同意这个想法,同意谁不同意和为什么。
189	But just to make it concrete and to see what's at stake	但为了让事情变得具体并且看看有什么关系
190	Consider the distribution of wealth	考虑财富的分配
191	In the United States.	在美国
192	The United States is among the most inegalitarian societies	美国是最无产阶级社会之一
193	As far as the distribution of wealth	至于财富的分配
194	Of all the advanced democracies.	所有先进民主国家中.
195	Now is this just or unjust?	这是正义还是不公正?
196	Well what does the libertarian say?	自由主义者怎么说?
197	The libertarian says	自由主义者说
198	You can't know just from the facts I've just given you.	你不可能从我刚刚告诉你的事实中知道
199	You can't know whether that distribution is just or unjust.	你不可能知道分配是公正还是不公正的。
200	You can't know just by looking at a pattern or a distribution or a result	你不可能只看图案分布或结果
201	Whether it's just or unjust.	无论是公正还是不公正。
202	You have to know how it came to be.	你必须知道它是如何来的。
203	You can't just look at the end state or the result.	不能只看结局状态或结果.
204	You have to look at two principles.	得观二法.
205	The first he calls justice in acquisition	第一个他称正义在获取
206	Or in initial holdings.	或在初始持有.
207	And what that means simply is	也就是说
208	Did people get the things they used to make their money?	人们得到他们用来赚钱的东西了吗?
209	Fairly.	不错
210	So we need to know was there justice in the initial holdings?	所以我们需要知道在最初的控股中有正义吗?
211	Did they steal the land or the factory or the goods	他们偷了土地、工厂或货物
212	That enabled them to make all that money?	让他们赚这么多钱?
213	If not, if they were entitled to whatever it was that enabled them to	如果不是,如果他们有权获得任何能够使他们
214	Gather the wealth	聚积财产,
215	The first principle is met.	第一原则得到满足。
216	The second principle is	第二项原则是:
217	Did the distribution arise from the operation of free consent?	分发是否源于自由同意?
218	People buying and trading on the market.	人民群众在市场上购买和交易.
219	As you can see the libertarian idea of justice	你可以看到自由主义的正义思想
220	Corresponds to a free market	相当于自由市场
221	Conception of justice.	司法概念.
222	Provided people got what they used	只要人们得到他们使用的东西
223	Fairly. Didn't steal it.	不错不是偷来的
224	And provided	提供
225	The distribution results from the free choice of individuals	分配是个人自由选择的结果
226	Buying and selling things	买卖物品
227	The distribution is just.	分布是公正的.
228	And if not, it's unjust.	然若无,则不公也.
229	So let's in order to fix ideas for this discussion	因此,让我们来为这次讨论确定想法
230	Take	拿着
231	An actual example.	一个实际的例子。
232	Who's the wealthiest person in the United States?	美国最富有的人是谁?
233	Wealthiest person in the world.	世界上最富有的人。
234	Bill Gates. It is. That's right.	比尔盖茨。没错没错
235	Here he is.	他来了
236	You'd be happy too.	你也会高兴的
237	Now, what's his net worth?	现在,他的净值多少?
238	Anybody have any idea?	有人知道吗?
239	That's a big number.	这是一个很大的数字。
240	During the Clinton years, remember there was a controversy	在克林顿的岁月里,记得有争论
241	Donors, big campaign contributors	捐助者、大型运动捐助者
242	Were invited to stay overnight in the Lincoln bedroom at the White House.	被邀请在白宫林肯卧室过夜.
243	I think if you contributed $25,000 or above	我想如果你捐了两万五千元或以上
244	Someone figured out	有人发现
245	That the median contribution	中位数贡献
246	That got you invited to stay a night in the Lincoln bedroom	让你在林肯卧室呆一晚
247	Bill Gates could afford to stay in the Lincoln bedroom every night	比尔·盖茨每晚都能住在林肯卧室
248	For the next 66,000 years.	后六万六千岁.
249	Somebody else figured out	别人知道
250	How much does he get paid on an hourly basis?	他每小时得到多少钱?
251	And so they figured out since he began Microsoft	所以他们想通了自从他开始微软
252	Suppose he worked, what, 14 hours per day.	假设他每天工作14小时
253	Reasonable guess.	合理猜测.
254	And you calculate this net wealth.	你计算这种净财富。
255	It turns out that his rate of pay	原来他的薪水
256	Is over $150, not per hour.	超过150美元,不是每小时。
257	Not per minute.	不是一分钟。
258	$150, more than $150 per second.	150元,每秒超过150元.
259	Which means	也就是说
260	That if on his way to the office	如果在去办公室的路上
261	Gates noticed a $100 bill on the street	盖茨注意到街上有一百块钞票
262	It wouldn't be worth his time to stop and pick it up.	不值得他停下来捡起来
263	Now, most of you will say	现在,你们大多数人会说
264	Someone that wealthy	一个有钱的人
265	Surely we can tax them to meet	我们当然可以交税让他们见面
266	The pressing needs	迫切需要
267	Of people who lack an education	缺乏教育的人
268	Or lack enough to eat	或者吃不饱
269	Or lack decent housing.	或缺乏体面的住房。
270	They need it more than he does.	他们比他更需要这个
271	And if you were a utilitarian	如果你是个功利主义者
272	What would you do?	你会怎么做?
273	What tax policy would you have?	你会有什么税收政策?
274	You'd redistribute in a flash, wouldn't you?	你会一瞬间重新分配,不是吗?
275	Because you would know	因为你会知道
276	Being a good utilitarian	做一个好功利主义者
277	That taking some, a small amount	这需要一些,一小笔钱
278	He's scarcely going to notice it	他不会注意到的
279	But it will make a huge improvement in the lives	但它会大大改善生活
280	And in the welfare of those at the bottom.	和在福利在底层的人。
281	But remember	但记住
282	The libertarian theory says	自由主义理论说
283	We can't just add up and aggregate	我们不能只加总和
284	Preferences and satisfactions.	优待与满足.
285	That way we have to respect persons	这样我们才能尊重人
286	And if he earned that money fairly	如果他能公平赚到钱
287	Without violating anybody else's rights	不侵犯别人的权利
288	In accordance with the two principles	根据这两项原则
289	Of justice in acquisition and justice in transfer	获得正义和移交正义
290	Then it would be wrong	那就不对了
291	It would be a form of coercion to take it away.	把它带走是一种胁迫。
292	Michael Jordan is not as wealthy as Bill Gates	迈克尔·乔丹没有比尔·盖茨那么富有
293	But he did pretty well for himself.	但是他表现得很好
294	You want to see Michael Jordan?	你想见迈克尔・乔丹吗?
295	There he is.	他来了
296	His income alone	光靠他的收入
297	In one year was 31 million dollars	一年是3100万美元
298	And then he made another 47 million dollars	然后他又赚了四千七百万
299	In endorsements for Nike and other companies.	支持耐克和其他公司
300	So his income was in one year 78 million.	所以他的收入在1年7800万.
301	To require him to pay	要求他付钱
302	Let's say a third of his earnings	算他三分之一的收入吧
303	To the government	对政府
304	To support good causes	支持好事业
305	Like food and health care and housing	食品、保健和住房等
306	And education for the poor	和穷人的教育
307	That's coercion. That's unjust.	这是强迫。这是不公正的。
308	That violates his rights.	这侵犯了他的权利。
309	And that's why redistribution is wrong.	这就是为什么再分配是错误的。
310	Now, how many agree with that argument?	现在,有多少人同意这个论点?
311	Agree with the libertarian argument	同意自由主义的论点
312	That redistribution for the sake of	这种重新分配是为了
313	Trying to help the poor is wrong.	试图帮助穷人是错误的。
314	And how many disagree with that argument?	有多少人不同意这一论点?
315	Alright, let's begin with those who disagree.	好吧,让我们从不同意的人开始。
316	What's wrong with the libertarian case against	自由主义案有什么不对?
317	Redistribution?	重新分配?
318	Yes?	是吗?
319	I think these people like Michael Jordan have received	我想这些人像迈克尔・乔丹已经得到了
320	We're talking about working within a society	我们说的是在社会中工作
321	And they received a larger gift from the society	他们收到社会上更大的礼物
322	And they have a larger obligation in return	他们有更大的义务回报
323	To give that through redistribution.	以再分配的方式给予它。
324	You can say that Michael Jordan may work just as hard	你可以说迈克尔·乔丹也一样努力
325	As someone who works doing laundry	作为洗衣服的人
326	12 hours, 14 hours a day	每天12小时14小时
327	But he's receiving more	但他收到更多的东西
328	I don't think it's fair to say that	我觉得这样说不公平
329	It's all on his inherent hard work.	这一切都在他的固有的艰苦工作。
330	Alright, let's hear from defenders of libertarianism.	好吧,让我们听听自由主义的捍卫者。
331	Why would it be wrong in principle	为什么这原则上是错误的
332	To tax the rich to help the poor?	向富人征税以帮助穷人?
333	Go ahead.	来吧。
334	My name's Joe and I collect skateboards.	我叫乔,我收集滑板
335	I've since bought 100 skateboards.	之后我买了100块滑板
336	I live in a society of 100 people.	我生活在一个有100人的社会。
337	I'm the only one with skateboards.	我是唯一一个有滑板的人。
338	Suddenly everyone decides they want a skateboard.	突然大家都决定要滑板
339	They come into my house, they take 99 of my skateboards.	他们进入我家,拿走了我的99块滑板
340	I think that is unjust.	我认为这不公平。
341	Now, I think in certain circumstances	现在,我想在某些情况下
342	It becomes necessary to overlook that injustice	有必要忽视这种不公正
343	Perhaps condone that injustice	也许可以宽恕不公正
344	As in the case of the cowboy being killed for food.	就像牛仔为了食物被杀一样
345	If people are on the verge of dying	如果人们濒临死亡
346	Perhaps it is necessary to overlook that injustice	也许有必要忽略这种不公正
347	But I think it's important to keep in mind	但我认为必须记住
348	That we're still committing injustice	说我们还有冤枉
349	By taking people's belongings or assets.	通过拿走人们的财物或资产。
350	Are you saying that taxing Michael Jordan	你是说对迈克尔·乔丹征税吗
351	Say at a 33% tax rate	税率为33%
352	For good causes to feed the hungry	为了养活饥饿的人
353	Is theft?	是偷窃吗?
354	I think it's unjust. Yes, I do believe it's theft.	我觉得这不公平是的,我相信这是偷窃。
355	But perhaps it is necessary	但也许有必要
356	To condone that theft.	为了宽恕那起盗窃案
357	But it's theft.	却作是盗.
358	Yes.	对
359	Why is it theft?	为什么是偷窃?
360	Joe.	乔
361	Because...	因为...
362	Why is it like your collection of skateboards?	为什么就像你收集的滑板?
363	It's theft because	这是盗窃,因为
364	At least in my opinion	至少我认为
365	And by the libertarian opinion	和自由主义者的意见
366	He earned that money fairly	他赚的钱是公平的
367	And it belongs to him.	它属于他
368	So to take it from him is by definition theft.	所以,从他那里夺走它顾名思义,是盗窃。
369	Alright, let's see if there's...	好吧,让我们看看是否有...
370	Who wants to reply to Joe?	谁想回复乔?
371	Yes, go ahead.	说吧
372	I don't think this is necessarily a case	我觉得这不一定是案子
373	In which you have 99 skateboards	里面有99块滑板
374	And the government...	还有政府...
375	Or you have 100 skateboards	或者你有100块滑板
376	And the government is taking 99 of them.	并且政府要带走其中的99个.
377	It's like you have more skateboards	就像你有更多的滑板一样
378	Than there are days in a year	比一年有几天的时间
379	You have more skateboards	你还有更多的滑板
380	Than you're going to be able to use	比你能够使用
381	In your entire lifetime	在你整个一生中
382	And the government is taking part of those.	政府也参与其中
383	And I think that if you're operating in a society	我认为如果你在社会中运作
384	In which the government doesn't redistribute wealth	政府不重新分配财富
385	That that allows for people to amass so much wealth	让人民聚集这么多财富
386	That people who haven't started from this very...	那些还没开始的人...
387	The equal footing in our hypothetical situation	我们假设中的平等地位
388	That doesn't exist in our real society	这在我们真正的社会中并不存在
389	Get undercut for the rest of their lives.	一辈子都被割伤
390	So you're worried that if there isn't some degree of redistribution	所以你担心如果没有某种程度的再分配
391	If some are left at the bottom	如果有些留在底部的话
392	There will be no genuine equality of opportunity.	不存在真正的机会平等。
393	Alright?	好吗?
394	The idea that taxation is theft	税收是偷窃的想法
395	Nozick takes that point one step further	诺兹克更进一步
396	He agrees that it's theft	他同意这是偷窃
397	He's more demanding than Joe.	比乔更苛求.
398	Joe says it is theft	祖说是偷窃
399	Maybe in an extreme case it's justified	也许在极端情况下是有理由的
400	Maybe a parent is justified in stealing a loaf of bread	也许父母偷面包有道理
401	To feed his or her hungry family	养活饥饿的家庭
402	So Joe is a...	乔是...
403	What would you call yourself?	你会怎么称呼自己?
404	A compassionate quasi-libertarian?	一个富有同情心的准文学家?
405	Nozick says, if you think about it	Nozick说,如果你考虑一下
406	Taxation amounts to the taking of earnings	税收等于收入
407	In other words, it means taking the fruits of my labor	换句话说,它意味着夺走我劳动的成果
408	But if the state has the right to take my earnings	但是如果国家有权拿走我的收入
409	Or the fruits of my labor	或是我劳动的成果
410	Isn't that morally the same	道德上不是一样吗?
411	As according to the state	照州话
412	The right to claim a portion of my labor?	有权要求我的一部分劳动?
413	So, taxation actually	所以,税收实际上
414	Is morally equivalent	在道德上是相当的
415	To forced labor	强迫劳动
416	Because forced labor	因为强迫劳动
417	Involves the taking of my leisure, my time, my efforts	包括我的闲暇,我的时间,我的努力
418	Just as taxation takes the earnings	就像税收占用了收入一样
419	That I make	и暗
420	With my labor	用我的劳动
421	And so, for Nozick	所以,诺兹克
422	And for the libertarians	对自由主义者来说
423	Taxation for redistribution is theft, as Joe says	重新分配税就是偷窃,就像乔说的
424	But not only theft	不只是偷窃
425	Theft is morally equivalent	偷窃在道德上是相当的
426	To laying claim to certain hours	要求某些时间
427	Of a person's life	一个人的生活
428	And labor	劳动
429	So it's morally equivalent to forced labor	所以在道德上相当于强迫劳动
430	If the state has a right to claim the fruits of my labor	如果国家有权要求我的工作成果
431	That implies that it really has an entitlement	这意味着它真的有权利
432	To my labor itself	为了我的劳动
433	And what is forced labor?	什么是强制劳动?
434	Forced labor, Nozick points out	强迫劳动,诺兹克指出
435	Is what? Is slavery	是吗? 是奴隶制
436	Because if I don't have the right, the sole right	因为如果我没有权利,唯一的权利
437	To my own labor	为了自己的劳动
438	Then	礛
439	That's really to say that the government or the political community	也就是说政府或政治界
440	Is a part owner in me	我是一个主人
441	And what does it mean for the state to be a part owner in me?	州里成为我的主人是什么意思?
442	If you think about it, it means	如果你考虑一下,这意味着
443	That I'm a slave	我是一个奴隶
444	That I don't own myself	说我并不拥有自己
445	So what this line of reasoning brings us to	所以,这条推理线带给我们
446	Is the fundamental principle	根本原则
447	That underlies the libertarian case for rights	这是自由主义权利的理由
448	What is that principle?	这一原则是什么?
449	It's the idea that I own myself	这是我自己的想法
450	It's the idea of self-possession	这是自负的想法
451	If you want to take rights seriously	如果你想认真对待权利
452	If you don't want to just regard people as collections of preferences	如果你不想把人们当作喜好的收藏
453	The fundamental moral idea	基本道德观念
454	To which you will be led	你将被引导到那里
455	Is the idea that we are the owners or the proprietors of our own person	是认为我们是自己的主人还是主人
456	And that's why utilitarianism goes wrong	所以功利主义就错了
457	And that's why it's wrong to yank the organs from that healthy patient	所以把病人的器官挖出来是错误的
458	You're acting as if that patient belongs to you or to the community	你表现得好像那个病人属于你或社区
459	But we belong to ourselves	但我们属于自己
460	And that's the same reason	这也是同样的原因
461	That it's wrong to make laws to protect us from ourselves	制定法律来保护我们自己是错误的
462	Or to tell us how to live	或者告诉我们如何生活
463	To tell us what virtues we should be governed by	告诉我们我们应该遵循什么美德
464	And that's also why it's wrong	这也是为什么它是错误的
465	To tax the rich, to help the poor	向富人征税,帮助穷人
466	Even for good causes, even to help those who are displaced by the Hurricane Katrina	即使有好的理由,甚至帮助那些因卡特里娜飓风而流离失所的人
467	Ask them to give charity	叫他们施舍
468	But if you tax them, it's like forcing them to labor	但是,如果你向他们征税, 这就像强迫他们劳动
469	Could you tell Michael Jordan he has to skip the next week's games	你能告诉迈克尔乔丹他必须跳过下周的比赛吗?
470	And go down to help the people displaced by Hurricane Katrina?	去帮助因卡特里娜飓风而流离失所的人?
471	More or less the same	差不多一样
472	So the stakes are very high	所以赌注很高
473	So far we've heard some objections to the libertarian argument	到目前为止,我们听到一些反对自由主义的论点
474	But if you want to reject it	但如果你想拒绝
475	You have to break into this chain of reasoning, which goes	你必须突破这个推理链,它去
476	Taking my earnings is like taking my labor	收我的钱就像收我的钱
477	But taking my labor is making me a slave	但是,拿我的劳动使我成为奴隶
478	And if you disagree with that	如果你不同意的话
479	You must believe in the principle of self-possession	你必须相信自负原则
480	Those who disagree, gather your objections	不同意的人,请收集你的反对意见
481	And we'll begin with them next time	我们下次从他们开始
482	Anyone like to take up that point? Yes?	有人愿意接受吗? 是吗?
483	I feel like when you live in a society, you give up that right	我觉得当你生活在一个社会, 你放弃的权利
484	I mean, technically, if I want to personally go out and kill someone	我的意思是,从技术上讲,如果我想亲自出去杀人的话
485	Because they offend me, that is self-possession	因为他们冒犯我,那是自负
486	Because I live in a society, I cannot do that	因为我生活在一个社会,我不能这样做
487	Victoria, are you questioning the fundamental premise of self-possession?	Victoria 你在质疑自我占有的基本前提吗?
488	Yes	对
489	I think that you don't really have self-possession	我觉得你没有真正的自负
490	If you choose to live in a society	如果你选择生活在一个社会
491	Because you cannot just discount the people around you	因为你不能轻视身边的人
492	We were talking last time about libertarianism	我们上次谈的是自由主义
493	I want to go back to the arguments for and against the redistribution of income	我想回到支持和反对收入再分配的论点
494	But before we do that	但是在我们这样做之前
495	Just one word about the minimal state	只说一个字关于最低状态
496	Milton Friedman, a libertarian economist	米尔顿·弗里德曼,自由主义经济学家
497	He points out that many of the functions that we take for granted	他指出,我们认为许多职能是理所当然的。
498	As properly belonging to government, don't	属于政府,不要
499	They are paternalist	他们是家长
500	One example he gives is social security	他举的一个例子是社会保障
501	He says it's a good idea	他说这是个好主意
502	For people to save for their retirement	为了人们的退休储蓄
503	During their earning years	收入年限
504	But it's wrong	但这是不对的
505	It's a violation of people's liberty	这是对人民自由的侵犯
506	For the government to force everyone	政府强迫所有人
507	Whether they want to or not	无论他们是否愿意
508	To put aside some earnings today	今天把一些收入放在一边
509	For the sake of their retirement	为了他们的退休
510	If people want to take the chance	如果人们想冒险
511	Or if people want to live big today	如果人们想活在今天
512	And live a poor retirement	过着贫穷的退休生活
513	That should be their choice	这应该是他们的选择
514	They should be free to make those judgements	他们应该可以自由作出这些判决
515	And take those risks	冒这些险
516	So even social security	所以连社会保障
517	Would still be at odds with the minimal state	仍然与最低状态不符
518	That Milton Friedman argued for	米尔顿·弗里德曼为
519	It's sometimes thought that	有时会想到
520	Collective goods like police protection and fire protection	警察保护和消防等集体物品
521	Will inevitably create the problem of free riders	将不可避免地造成自由骑手的问题
522	Unless they're publicly provided	除非是公开提供的
523	But there are ways	但有办法
524	To prevent free riders	防止自由骑手
525	There are ways to restrict	有办法限制
526	Even seemingly collective goods like fire protection	即使是像消防这样的集体商品
527	I read an article a while back	我之前读过一篇文章
528	About a private fire company	关于一家私人消防公司
529	The Salem Fire Corporation in Arkansas	阿肯色州的Salem消防公司
530	You can sign up with the Salem Fire Corporation	你可以和萨利姆消防公司签约
531	Pay a yearly subscription fee	缴纳年度订阅费
532	And if your house catches on fire	如果你的房子着火了
533	They will come and put out the fire	他们会来灭火
534	But they won't put out	但他们不会扑灭的
535	Everybody's fire	每个人都有火
536	They will only put it out	他们只会熄灭
537	If it's a fire	如果有火的话
538	In the home of a subscriber	在订户家里
539	Or if it starts to spread	如果它开始扩散
540	And to threaten	并威胁
541	The home of a subscriber	订户的家
542	The newspaper article	报纸文章
543	Told the story of a homeowner	讲了房主的故事
544	Who had subscribed	谁签了
545	To this company in the past	过去对这家公司
546	But failed to renew his subscription	但是没有续约
547	His house caught on fire	他的房子着火了
548	The Salem Fire Corporation showed up with its trucks	萨利姆消防队的卡车来了
549	And watched the house burn	看着房子被烧毁
550	Just making sure that it didn't spread	只是确保它不会扩散
551	The fire chief was asked	有人问消防队长
552	Well, he wasn't exactly the fire chief	他又不是消防队长
553	I guess he was the CEO	我想他就是CEO了,我猜他是CEO
554	He was asked	有人问他
555	How can you stand by with fire equipment	你怎能用消防器材
556	And allow a person's home to burn?	并允许一个人的家燃烧?
557	He replied	他回答说
558	Once we verified there was no danger	一旦我们核实就没有危险
559	To a member's property	成员的财产
560	We had no choice	我们别无选择
561	But to back off according to our rules	但是要按照我们的规矩退缩
562	If we responded to all fires	如果我们对所有的火灾作出反应
563	He said there would be no incentive	他说没有奖励
564	To subscribe	订阅
565	The homeowner in this case	这案子的房主
566	Tried to renew his subscription	想续约
567	At the scene of the fire	在火灾现场
568	But the head of the company refused	但公司负责人拒绝了
569	You can't wreck your car	你不能毁了你的车
570	He said and then buy insurance	他说,然后买保险
571	For it later	晚点再说吧
572	So even public goods	因此,即使是公益物
573	That we take for granted as being	我们视为理所当然
574	Within the proper province of government	在适当的政府省内
575	Can many of them in principle	原则上,他们中有许多可以
576	Be isolated	被隔离
577	Made exclusive to those who pay	专给那些付钱的人
578	That's all to do with	这都与
579	The question of collective goods	集体货物问题
580	And the libertarian's	自由主义者的
581	Injunction against paternalism	禁止家长制
582	But let's go back now	现在回去吧
583	To the arguments about	关于
584	Redistribution	重新分配
585	Now underlying	现在隐藏
586	The libertarian's case	自由主义者的案子
587	For the minimal state	起码的状态
588	Is a worry about coercion	是担心强迫
589	But what's wrong with coercion?	但强迫有什么问题?
590	The libertarian offers	自由主义者的提议
591	This answer	这个答案
592	To coerce someone	强迫别人
593	To use some person	利用别人
594	For the sake of the general welfare	为了一般的福利
595	Is wrong because	错了,因为
596	It calls into question	它引起了质疑
597	The fundamental fact	根本事实
598	That we own ourselves	我们拥有自己
599	The fundamental moral fact	基本道德事实
600	Of self-possession	自有财产
601	Or self-ownership	或自我拥有
602	The libertarian's	自由主义者的
603	Argument against redistribution	反对再分配的论点
604	Begins with this fundamental idea	从这个基本想法开始
605	That we own ourselves	我们拥有自己
606	Nozick says	诺兹克说
607	That if	狦
608	The society as a whole	整个社会
609	Can go to Bill Gates	可以去比尔盖茨
610	Or go to Michael Jordan	或者去迈克尔乔丹
611	And tax away a portion	并征收一部分税款
612	Of their wealth	他们的财富
613	What the society is really	真正的社会是什么
614	Asserting	煽动
615	Is a collective property	是集体财产
616	Right in	右进
617	Bill Gates	比尔·盖茨
618	Or in Michael Jordan	或者在迈克尔・乔丹
619	But that violates	但是,这违反了
620	The fundamental principle	基本原则
621	That we belong to ourselves	我们属于自己
622	Now we've already	现在,我们已经
623	Heard a number of objections	听到一些反对意见
624	To the libertarian argument	到自由主义的论据
625	What I would like to do today	今天我想做什么就做什么吗?
626	Is to give	是给
627	The libertarians among us	我们中间的自由主义者
628	A chance to answer the objections	有机会回答反对
629	That have been raised	已经提起了
630	And some have been	有些已经
631	Some have already	有些已经
632	Identified themselves	认得自己
633	And have agreed to	并已经同意
634	Come and make the case	来说明一下
635	For libertarianism to reply	自由主义的回答
636	To the objections that have been raised	对提出的反对
637	So raise your hand	举起手来
638	If you are among the libertarians	如果你们是自由主义者,
639	Who's prepared to stand up	谁准备站起来
640	For the theory	对于理论
641	And respond to the objections	对反对作出回应
642	You are	琌
643	Alex Harris	亚历克斯·哈里斯
644	Who's been a star	谁是明星
645	On the web blog	在网络博客上
646	Alex come here	亚历克斯过来
647	Stand up	站起来
648	We'll create a libertarian corner	我们会创造一个自由的角落
649	Here	给
650	And who else	还有谁
651	Other libertarians	其他自由主义者
652	Who will join	谁会加入
653	What's your name	你叫什么来着?
654	John	约翰
655	John Sheffield	约翰·谢菲尔德
656	Who else wants to join	还有谁想加入
657	Other brave libertarians	其他勇敢的自由主义者
658	Who are prepared	谁准备好了
659	To take on	开始吧
660	What's your name	你叫什么来着?
661	Julia Roto	朱莉娅·罗托
662	Come join us over there	到那边来
663	Now while the	现在,当
664	While Team Libertarian	自由队
665	Julia, John, Alex	茱莉亚,约翰,亚历克斯
666	While Team Libertarian	自由队
667	Is gathering over there	在那边集合
668	Let me just summarize	让我总结一下
669	The main objections that I've heard	我听到的主要反对意见
670	In class and on the web site	课堂和网站
671	Objection number one	反对第一
672	And here I'll come down to	在这里,我会下来
673	I want to talk to Team Libertarian over here	我想跟自由队谈谈
674	So objection number one	所以反对第一
675	Is that	这是
676	The poor need the money more	穷人更需要钱
677	That's an obvious objection	这是明显的反对
678	A lot more than	远不止
679	Than do	没有
680	Bill Gates and Michael Jordan	比尔·盖茨和迈克尔·乔丹
681	Objection number two	二号异议
682	It's not really slavery to tax	这不是真正的奴隶税
683	Because	因为
684	At least in a democratic society	至少在一个民主社会
685	It's not a slave holder	不是奴隶持有者
686	It's Congress	是国会
687	It's a democratic	这是一个民主的
688	You're smiling Alex already	你已经在笑亚历克斯了
689	You're confident you can reply to all of these	你确信你可以回答所有这些
690	So, taxation by consent of the governed	因此,经被管辖人同意征税
691	Is not coerced	不是强迫的
692	Third	第三届
693	Some people have said	有人说
694	Don't the successful	别成功
695	Like Gates	像盖茨一样
696	Success that they repay by paying taxes	他们靠交税偿还的成功
697	Who wants to respond to the first one	谁想回应第一个
698	The poor need the money	穷人需要钱
699	More	更多
700	John	约翰
701	The poor need the money more	穷人更需要钱
702	That's quite obvious	很明显
703	I could use the money	我可以用钱
704	I certainly wouldn't mind if Bill Gates gave me a million dollars	如果比尔·盖茨给我一百万我当然不介意
705	I'd take a thousand	我要一千块
706	But at some point	但有时
707	You have to understand that the benefits	你必须明白,好处
708	Of redistribution of wealth	财富再分配
709	Don't justify the initial violation of the property	不要为最初的侵犯财产辩解
710	Right	对
711	If you look at the argument the poor need the money more	如果你看这个争论穷人更需要钱
712	At no point in that argument do you contradict	你从不反驳
713	The fact that we've extrapolated from	我们推断出的事实
714	Agreed upon principles	商定原则
715	That people own themselves	人拥有自己
716	We've extrapolated that people have property rights	我们推断出,人们有财产权
717	And so whether or not it would be a good	不管这是否是件好事
718	Thing or a nice thing	东西还是好东西
719	Or even a necessary thing for the survival	甚至是生存所必需的东西
720	Of some people	有些人
721	We don't see that that justifies the violation of the right	我们不认为这能证明违反权利
722	To be logically extrapolated	要逻辑推断
723	And so that also	因此,同样
724	There still exists this institution of	目前还存在这样一个体制:
725	Like individual philanthropy	就像个人慈善事业
726	Milton Friedman提出这个论点
727	Bill Gates can give to charity	比尔·盖茨可以给慈善事业
728	If he wants to	如果他想的话
729	But it would still be wrong	但还是不对劲
730	To coerce him	强迫他
731	To meet the needs of the poor	满足穷人的需要
732	Exactly	没错
733	Are the two of you happy	你们俩开心吗?
734	With that reply	有了这个答复
735	Go ahead	说吧
736	Julie	朱丽
737	I think I could also add	我想我还可以补充
738	I guess I could whole add that	我想我可以补充一点
739	There's a difference between needing something	需要的东西是有区别的
740	And deserving something	值得为我做点什么
741	I mean in an ideal society everyone's needs be met	我是说在理想的社会中每个人都需要满足
742	But here we're arguing what do we deserve as a society	但是我们在这里争论我们作为一个社会应该得到什么
743	And the poor	还有穷人
744	Don't deserve	不值得这样
745	Don't deserve the benefits	不值得得到好处
746	That would flow from taxing Michael	这会从对迈克尔的征税中产生
747	Jordan to help them	约旦帮他们
748	Based on what we've come up with here	根据我们想出来的
749	I don't think you deserve	我不认为你值得
750	Something like that	差不多是这样
751	Let me push you a little bit on that	让我推你一点
752	The victims of Hurricane Katrina	卡特里娜飓风的受害者
753	Are in	进入
754	Desperate need of help	急需帮助
755	Would you say that	你会说
756	They don't deserve	他们不值得
757	Help	帮助
758	That would come from	那会来自
759	The federal government through taxation	联邦政府通过征税
760	Okay	还好
761	That's a difficult question	这个问题很难解决
762	I think this is a case where they need help	我觉得这是他们需要帮助的案子
763	Not deserve it	不值得这样
764	I think again if you hit a certain level of	我又想如果你打到某个程度
765	Requirements to reach sustenance	达到供养的要求
766	You're going to need help	你需要帮助
767	Like if you don't have food or a place to live	就像你没有食物或住的地方
768	That's a case of need	这是需要的
769	So need is one thing and desert is another	所以需求是一回事沙漠是另一回事
770	Exactly	没错
771	Alright	罢
772	Who would like to reply	谁想回答
773	Yes	对
774	Going back to the first point	回到第一点
775	That he made about the property rights	他做的关于财产权
776	Of the individual	个人
777	The property rights are established and enforced by the	财产权由法院确定并强制执行。
778	Government which is	现任政府
779	A democratic government	民主政府
780	And we have representatives	我们有代表
781	When first those rights	当这些权利开始
782	If you live in a society that operates under those	如果你生活在一个社会运作在这些,
783	Rules then it should be	规则应该是这样
784	Up to the government	升为政府
785	To decide	决定
786	How	怎么样
787	Those resources that come out through	这些资源通过
788	Taxation are distributed because	税收分配的原因是:
789	It is through the consent of the government	这是通过政府的同意
790	So you don't have to live in that society where	这么说你不必住在那个社会
791	That operates	这样就可以了
792	Alright good and tell me your name	好吧,好,告诉我你的名字
793	Raul	劳尔
794	Actually Raul is invoking	其实劳尔正在援引
795	Point number two	第二点
796	If the taxation is by the consent	如果税务是经同意的
797	Of the governed	被管理者中
798	It's not coerced	不是强迫的
799	It's legitimate	这是正当的
800	Bill Gates and Michael Jordan	比尔·盖茨和迈克尔·乔丹
801	Are citizens of the United States	美国公民
802	They get to vote for congress	他们可以投票给国会
803	They get to vote	他们可以投票
804	Alright	罢
805	Who would like to take that one on	谁愿意接受这个
806	John	约翰
807	Basically what the libertarians	基本上什么是自由主义者
808	Are objecting to	反对
809	In this case is the middle 80 percent	在这种情况下,中间80%
810	Deciding what the top 10 percent are doing for the bottom	决定前10%为底部做什么
811	10%
812	Wait John	等等,约翰
813	Majority, don't you believe in democracy	多数,你不相信民主
814	Well right but at some point	不错,但有时
815	I mean you say 80 percent, 10 percent	我的意思是你说80%,10%
816	Majority, majority rule is what	多数,多数规则是什么
817	Majority	多数
818	Democracy, aren't you for democracy	民主,你不赞成民主吗?
819	Yes I'm for democracy but	是的,我赞成民主,但是
820	Hang on, hang on, hang on	坚持住,坚持住,坚持住
821	Democracy and mob rule aren't the same thing	民主和暴徒统治不一样
822	Mob rule	移动规则
823	Exactly	没错
824	In an open society you have a recourse to address that	在一个开放的社会中,你有一个解决
825	Through your representatives	通过你们的代表
826	And if the majority of the consent	如果大多数同意
827	Of those who are governed doesn't agree with you	那些被统治的人不认同你
828	Then you know	那你们知道
829	You're choosing to live in a society	你选择生活在一个社会中
830	And you have to operate under what	你必须在什么下操作
831	The majority of society concludes	社会大多数人认为:
832	Alright Alex on democracy	好吧,亚历克斯关于民主
833	Democracy, what about that	民主,那怎么办?
834	The fact that I have	我拥有的事实
835	Won you know 500,000th of a vote	元,你知道50万票
836	For one representative in congress	代表大会一名代表
837	Is not the same thing as my	跟我不一样
838	Having the ability to decide for myself	拥有自己决定的能力
839	How to use my property	如何利用我的财产
840	Rights, I'm a drop	对,我是滴水
841	In the bucket	在水桶内
842	And you know well	笵
843	You might lose the vote	你可能会失去选票
844	Exactly and I will, I mean I don't have	是的,我会的,我的意思是,我没有
845	The decision right now whether or not to pay taxes	现在决定是否交税
846	If I don't I get locked in jail	如果我不这样做,我会被关进监狱
847	Or they tell me to get out of the country	或者他们叫我离开这个国家
848	But Alex, Alex	但亚历克斯,亚历克斯
849	Let me make	让我来
850	A small case for democracy	一个小小的民主案例
851	See what you would say	看你会说什么
852	Why can't you	为什么你不能
853	We live in a democratic society	我们生活在民主社会中
854	With freedom of speech	有言论自由
855	Why can't you take to the hustings	你为什么不可以去胡思乱想
856	Persuade your	让你的
857	Fellow citizens that taxation	征税的公民
858	Is unjust and try to get	是不公正的,试图得到
859	A majority	多数
860	I don't think that people should be	我不认为人们应该
861	Should have to convince 280 million others	应该说服其他2.8亿
862	Simply in order to exercise	只是为了锻炼
863	Their own rights in order to not have their	他们自己的权利不享有
864	Self ownership violated	侵犯自我所有权
865	I think people should be able to do that without having to convince	我认为人们应该能够做到这一点而无需说服
866	280 million people	2.8亿人口
867	Does that mean you're against democracy as a whole	这是否意味着你反对整个民主
868	No, I just believe in a very	不,我只是相信一个非常
869	Limited form of democracy whereby we have	我们拥有的有限形式的民主
870	A constitution that severely limits	严重限制宪法
871	The scope of what decisions	何种决定的范围
872	Can be made democratically	可以民主地实现
873	Alright so you're saying that democracy is	好吧,所以你说民主是
874	A fine except where fundamental	罚款,但基本罚款除外
875	Rights are involved	涉及权利
876	And	还有
877	I think you could win if you're going on the	我想你可以赢如果你要去
878	Hustings 让我再加一个元素
879	To the argument you might make	为了你可能提出的论点
880	Maybe you could say	也许你可以说
881	Put aside the economic debates	把经济辩论放在一边
882	Taxation	税务
883	Suppose the individual right to religious	假设个人对宗教的权利
884	Liberty were at stake	自由受到威胁
885	Then Alex you could say	然后亚历克斯你可以说
886	On the hustings	在胡思乱想
887	Surely you would all agree	你们一定会同意的
888	That we shouldn't put the right to individual	我们不应该把个人的权利
889	Liberty up to a vote	直至表决的自由
890	Yeah that's exactly right	没错
891	And that's why	这就是为什么
892	We have constitutional amendments	我们有宪法修正案
893	讽и琵и constitution跑硂或螟
894	So you would say that the	所以你会说
895	Right to private property	私人财产权
896	The right of Michael Jordan	迈克尔·约旦的权利
897	To keep all the money he makes	为了保住他赚的钱
898	At least to protect it from	至少是为了保护它
899	Redistribution is the	重新分配是
900	Same kind of right with	同样的正确
901	The same kind of weight	同样的重量
902	As the right to freedom of speech	作为言论自由的权利
903	The right to religious liberty	宗教自由权
904	Rights that should trump	B. 应超越的权利
905	What the majority wants	多数人想要的
906	Absolutely the reason why we have a right	绝对是我们有权的理由
907	To free speech is because we have a right	言论自由是因为我们有权利
908	To own ourselves to exercise	自我锻炼
909	Our voice in any way	无论如何,我们的声音
910	That we choose	我们选择
911	Alright so there we	好吧,这样吧
912	Who would like to respond to that argument	谁愿意回答这个论点?
913	About	关于
914	Democracy being	民主的实现
915	Okay up there stand up	好,站起来
916	I think comparing religion	我认为比较宗教
917	Economics it's not the same thing	经济是不一样的
918	The reason why Bill Gates was able to make	比尔·盖茨之所以能够
919	So much money is because we live in an economically	这么多钱是因为我们生活在经济上
920	And socially stable	社会稳定
921	Society and if the government	社会,如果政府
922	Didn't provide for the poorest 10%	不给最穷的人10%
923	As you say through	就像你说的
924	Taxation then we would need more	税收,那么我们需要更多
925	Money for police to prevent crime	警察预防犯罪的钱
926	And so either way like	所以不管怎么样
927	There would be more taxes taken away to provide	将会有更多的税收被拿走提供
928	What you guys call like the	你们怎么称呼的?
929	Necessary things that the	需要的东西
930	Government provides what's your name	政府提供你的名字
931	Anna	甊
932	Anna let me ask you this	安娜让我问你
933	Why is the fundamental	为什么根本的
934	Right to religious liberty	宗教自由权
935	Different	不同
936	From	从
937	The right Alex asserts	亚历克斯声称的权利
938	As a fundamental right	作为一项基本权利
939	To private property	私人财产
940	And to keep what I earn	为了保持我挣的钱
941	What's the difference between the two	两者有什么区别
942	Because you wouldn't have	因为你不会
943	You wouldn't be able to	你不会
944	Make money you wouldn't be able to own	赚钱是不能拥有的
945	Property if there wasn't a socially	没有社会化的地产
946	Like if society wasn't stable	就像社会不稳定一样
947	And that's completely different from	这完全不同于
948	Religion that's like something personal	宗教就像个人的东西
949	Something that you can practice on your own in your own	你可以自己练习的东西
950	Home where at like me	像我一样的家
951	Practicing my religion is not going to affect	练习我的宗教不会影响
952	The next person but if I'm poor	下一个人,但如果我贫穷
953	And I'm desperate	我绝望
954	Like I might commit a crime to feed my	就像我犯罪是为了养活我
955	Family and that can affect others	家庭以及可能影响他人的家庭
956	Okay good thank you	好的,谢谢
957	Would it be wrong	会不对吗?
958	For someone to steal	为了有人偷东西
959	A loaf of bread	一块面包
960	To feed	要喂养
961	His starving family is that wrong	他家饿得不行
962	I believe that it is	我相信这是
963	Let's take a quick poll of the	我们来快速调查一下
964	Three of you it is you say yes	你们三个是说好
965	It is wrong it violates property	这是错的,它侵犯财产
966	Rights it's wrong even to	权利是错的,甚至
967	Save a starving family I mean	拯救一个饥饿的家庭
968	There are definitely other ways	肯定还有别的办法
969	Around that and by justifying	绕着那条路说出理由
970	No hang on hang on before	之前不许挂断
971	You laugh at me	你笑话我
972	That didn't work	没用的
973	Before	在此之前
974	Justifying the	说明
975	Act of stealing	偷窃行为
976	You have to look at	你一定要看一看,看一看
977	Violating the right that we've already agreed	侵犯我们已经同意的权利
978	Exists the right of self possession	拥有拥有权
979	And the possession of I mean	我的意思是拥有
980	Your own things we agree on property	你的东西,我们同意的财产
981	Right we agree it's stealing so property	对,我们同意它偷东西
982	Right is not the issue all right but	问题不在于权利
983	So why is it wrong to steal even	那为什么偷东西是错的
984	To feed your starving family sort of	为了养活你饿死的家人
985	The original argument that I made in the very	我最初提出的论点
986	In the very first question you asked the	在你问的第一个问题
987	Benefits of an action don't	行动的好处不是
988	Justify don't make	说明不做
989	The action just do you want	行动只是你想要的
990	What would you say Julia is it all right	朱莉娅会怎么说?
991	To steal a loaf of bread to	偷面包给
992	Feed a starving family or to steal a	养家糊口还是偷东西
993	Drug that your your child	你的孩子用药
994	Needs to to survive	生存需要
995	I think I'm okay with that	我觉得我不介意
996	Honestly even from a libertarian	老实说,即使是从自由主义者那里
997	Standpoint I think that okay	站点,我想可以
998	Saying that you can just take money arbitrarily	说你可以随便收钱
999	From people who have a lot to to go to	从有很多事情要处理的人那里
1000	This pool of people who need it but you	这群人需要它,但你
1001	Have an individual who's acting on their own	有个人在独立行动
1002	Behalf to kind of say	说到一半
1003	Themselves I mean I think you said they	我意思是你说过
1004	From the idea like self possession	从想法像自我占有
1005	They're also in charge of protecting themselves	他们也负责保护自己
1006	And keeping themselves alive so	让自己活下来
1007	Therefore even from a libertarian standpoint that	因此,即使从自由主义的观点来看
1008	Might be okay all right that's good	可能没事,很好
1009	That's good all right what about what about	很好,好吧,怎么样?
1010	Number three up here isn't it	三号在上面不是么?
1011	The case that the	案件涉及:
1012	Successful the wealthy	有钱人成功
1013	Oh a debt they didn't do that all	哦,欠他们的人情,他们没做这些
1014	By themselves they had to cooperate with	他们自己必须和
1015	Other people that they	其他人,他们
1016	They owe a debt to	他们欠我一笔债
1017	Society and that that's expressed in	社会,这表现在
1018	Taxation you want to take that on	税收,你想承担
1019	Okay this one I believe	好吧,这个我相信
1020	That there is not a debt to society	社会没有债务
1021	In the sense that how did these people become wealthy	也就是说,这些人是如何变得富有的
1022	They did something that society valued	他们做了社会珍视的事
1023	Highly think that society has already	强烈地认为社会已经
1024	Been giving been providing	一直在提供
1025	For them if anything	给他们,如果有什么
1026	I think it's everything's canceled out	我觉得一切都取消了
1027	They provided a service to society	他们为社会提供服务
1028	And society responded by	社会的反应是
1029	Somehow they got their wealth	不知何故他们得到了他们的财富
1030	So be concrete in the case of Michael	迈克尔的事要具体点
1031	Jordan some	约旦一些
1032	I mean to illustrate your	我的意思是要说明你
1033	Point there were people who helped	指有人帮忙
1034	You make the money the teammates	你赚了队友的钱
1035	The coach people	教练们
1036	Who taught him how to play	谁教他打球的
1037	But they you're saying but they've all been	但是,他们说,但是他们一直
1038	Paid for their services	支付服务费
1039	Exactly and society derived	完全正确,社会产生
1040	A lot of benefit and pleasure from watching Michael	看着迈克尔有很多好处和乐趣
1041	Jordan play I think that	乔丹弹,我想
1042	That's how he paid his debt to society	他就是这样还债的
1043	All right good who would	好吧,谁愿意
1044	Anyone like to take up that point	谁都喜欢这样
1045	Yes	对
1046	I think that there's a problem	我觉得有问题
1047	Here with that we're assuming	在这里,我们假设
1048	That a person has self possession when	一个人拥有自己的财产
1049	They live in a society I feel	他们生活在一个我感受到的社会里
1050	Like when you live in a society you give up	就像你生活在一个社会,你放弃了
1051	That right I mean technically if I	没错,我的意思是技术上,如果我
1052	Want to personally go out and kill someone	想亲自出去杀人
1053	Because they offend me that is self possession	因为他们冒犯我,这是自我占有
1054	Because I live in a society I cannot	因为我生活在一个社会我不能
1055	Do that I think it's kind of	做,我认为这是一种
1056	Equivalent to say because I have more	可以说,因为我有更多的
1057	Money I have resources that can save people's	钱我有钱救人
1058	Lives is it not okay	活着是不好的
1059	For the government to take that from me	政府要从我这里夺走
1060	Self possession only to a certain extent because	仅在某种程度上,由于
1061	I'm living in a society where I have to take	我生活在一个我必须接受的社会
1062	Account of the people around me so are you	我身边的人,你也是
1063	Questioned what's your name Victoria	问起你叫维多利亚
1064	Victoria are you questioning	维多莉亚在审问你
1065	The fundamental	基本内容
1066	Premise of self possession yes	自我拥有的前提是
1067	I think that you don't	我想你不会
1068	Really have self possession if you choose to	如果你愿意的话,真的有自己的财产
1069	Live in a society because you cannot just	生活在一个社会因为你不能只是
1070	Discount the people around you	给周围的人打折
1071	Alright I want to quickly get the response	好,我要尽快得到答复
1072	Of	员额
1073	The libertarian team	自由队
1074	To the last point	到最后一点
1075	The last point	最后一点
1076	Builds on	以
1077	Well maybe it builds on Victoria's suggestion	也许它基于维多利亚的建议
1078	That we don't own ourselves	我们不拥有自己
1079	Because it says	因为它说
1080	That Bill Gates is wealthy	比尔·盖茨很有钱
1081	That Michael Jordan	迈克尔・乔丹
1082	Makes a huge income	赚大钱
1083	Isn't holy	岂不是神圣
1084	Their own doing	他们自己做的
1085	It's the product of a lot of luck	这是运气的产物
1086	And so we can't claim that they	所以我们不能声称他们
1087	Morally deserve	道德应得
1088	All the money they make who wants to reply	他们赚的钱谁都想回答
1089	To that Alex	敬亚历克斯
1090	You certainly couldn't make the case that	你当然不能这样
1091	It is not their wealth	不是他们的财富
1092	Is not appropriate to the goodness in their hearts	不适合他们心中的善良
1093	But that's not really the	但这不是真正的
1094	Morally relevant issue the point is that	与道德相关的问题是:
1095	They have received what they have	他们得到了他们所拥有的
1096	Through the free exchange of people who have	通过自由交流拥有
1097	Given them their holdings	有了他们的财产
1098	Usually in exchange for providing	通常作为提供交换
1099	Some other service	其他服务
1100	I want to try to sum up what we've	我想总结一下我们的情况
1101	Learned from this discussion but first	从这次讨论中吸取了教训,但首先
1102	Let's thank John, Alex, and	让我们感谢约翰,亚历克斯,和
1103	Julia for a really wonderful job	朱莉娅的工作很出色
1104	Toward the end of the	即将结束
1105	Discussion just now	刚才的讨论
1106	Victoria challenged	维多利亚受到挑战
1107	The premise of this line of	这条线的前提
1108	Reasoning this libertarian logic	解释这种自由主义逻辑
1109	Maybe she suggested	也许她建议
1110	We don't own ourselves	我们不是自己人
1111	After all	毕竟
1112	If you reject	如果你拒绝
1113	The libertarian	自由主义者
1114	Case against redistribution	反对重新分配的理由
1115	There would seem to be	似乎还有
1116	An incentive	奖励
1117	To break into	闯入
1118	The libertarian line of reasoning	自由主义推理线
1119	At the earliest	最早
1120	At the most modest	最谦虚的时候
1121	Level	职等
1122	Which is why a lot of people	这就是为什么很多人
1123	Disputed that taxation	对征税提出异议
1124	Is morally equivalent to forced	道德上相当于强迫
1125	Labor	劳工
1126	But what about	但是,怎么样
1127	The big claim	大索赔
1128	The premise, the big idea	前提,大点子
1129	Underlying the libertarian argument	自由主义论点的基础
1130	Is it true that we own	是真的吗?
1131	Ourselves	我们自己
1132	Or can we do	或者我们可以做
1133	Without that idea	没有这个想法
1134	And still avoid	还是要避开
1135	What libertarians want	自由主义者想要什么
1136	To avoid	为了避免
1137	Creating a society	建立一个社会
1138	And an account of justice	和正义的叙述
1139	Where some people	在那里有些人
1140	Can be	可能会
1141	Just used	刚刚用过
1142	For the sake	为了这个
1143	Of other people's welfare	其他人的福利
1144	Or even for the sake	甚至为了这个
1145	Of the general good	总的好
1146	Libertarians combat	自由主义者战斗
1147	The utilitarian idea	功利主义思想
1148	Of using people	利用别人
1149	As means	作为手段
1150	For the collective happiness	为了集体幸福
1151	By saying the way to put	说出办法
1152	A stop to that utilitarian logic	停止那个实用主义逻辑
1153	Of using persons	使用人员
1154	Is to resort	是要诉诸
1155	To the intuitively powerful idea	直觉强大的想法
1156	That we are	我们是
1157	The proprietors of our own	我们的主人
1158	Person	个人
1159	That's Alex	这是亚历克斯
1160	And Julia and John	还有茱莉亚和约翰
1161	And Robert Nozick	还有罗伯特·诺兹克
1162	What are the consequences	后果如何?
1163	For a theory of justice	为了正义的理论
1164	And an account of rights	和权利说明
1165	Of calling into question	质疑
1166	The idea of self possession	自我占有的概念
1167	Does it mean that we're back	这是否意味着我们回来了
1168	To utilitarianism	敬功利主义
1169	And using people	利用别人
1170	And aggregating preferences	合并喜好
1171	And pushing the fat man off the bridge	把胖子推下桥
1172	Nozick doesn't	诺兹克不会的
1173	Himself	他本人
1174	Fully develop the idea of self possession	充分发展自我占有的思想
1175	He borrows it from an earlier	他以前借来的
1176	Philosopher John Locke	哲学家约翰·洛克
1177	John Locke	约翰·洛克
1178	Accounted	已入账
1179	For the rise	为了崛起
1180	Of private property	私人财产
1181	From the state of nature	从自然状态
1182	By a chain of reasoning	由一连串的推理
1183	Very similar to the one that Nozick	和诺兹克的很相似
1184	And the libertarians use	自由主义者使用
1185	John Locke said	约翰·洛克说
1186	Private property	私有财产
1187	Private property arises	私人财产产生
1188	Because	因为
1189	When we mix our labor	当我们混合劳动时
1190	With things	东西
1191	Unowned things	无主的东西
1192	We come to acquire a property	我们是来买地的
1193	Right in those things	就是这样
1194	And the reason	还有原因
1195	The reason is that we own	原因是我们拥有
1196	Our own labor	我们的劳动
1197	And the reason for that	还有原因
1198	We are the proprietors	我们是业主
1199	The owners of our own person	我们自己的主人
1200	And so in order to examine	所以,为了检查
1201	The moral force	道德力量
1202	Of the libertarian claim	自由主义主张
1203	That we own ourselves	我们拥有自己
1204	We need to turn	我们要转身
1205	To the English political	对英国政治
1206	Philosopher John Locke	哲学家约翰·洛克
1207	And examine his account	检查他的账户
1208	Of private property	私人财产
1209	And self ownership	自我拥有
1210	And that's what we'll do next time	我们下次就这么做
1211	Don't miss the chance to interact online	不要错过网上交流的机会
1212	With other viewers of Justice	与正义的其他观众
1213	Join the conversation	加入对话
1214	Take a pop quiz	来个流行测验
1215	Watch lectures you've missed	看你错过的课
1216	And learn a lot more	学更多
1217	访问justiceharvard.org
1218	It's the right thing to do	这是正确的事情
1219	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
1220	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

该视频共有字幕 1222 条。解锁更多字幕为会员功能，请移动到价格

P5 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p05 4. 4.这是我的土地 (P5)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p05 4. 4.这是我的土地 (P5)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 54:59

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
0:06	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
0:31	Today we turn to John Locke.	今天我们找约翰洛克
0:39	On the face of it, Locke is a powerful ally of the libertarian.	表面上看,洛克是自由主义者的强大盟友.
0:47	First, he believes, as libertarians today maintain,	首先,他相信, 今天自由主义者认为,
0:54	that there are certain fundamental individual rights	某些基本的个人权利
0:59	that are so important that no government,	如此重要,以至于没有政府,
1:03	even a representative government, even a democratically elected government,	甚至一个有代表性的政府, 甚至一个民主选举的政府,
1:08	can override them.	能够覆盖它们。
1:12	Not only that, he believes that those fundamental rights include	不仅如此,他认为这些基本权利包括:

展开字幕全文（645 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
2	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
3	Today we turn to John Locke.	今天我们找约翰洛克
4	On the face of it, Locke is a powerful ally of the libertarian.	表面上看,洛克是自由主义者的强大盟友.
5	First, he believes, as libertarians today maintain,	首先,他相信, 今天自由主义者认为,
6	that there are certain fundamental individual rights	某些基本的个人权利
7	that are so important that no government,	如此重要,以至于没有政府,
8	even a representative government, even a democratically elected government,	甚至一个有代表性的政府, 甚至一个民主选举的政府,
9	can override them.	能够覆盖它们。
10	Not only that, he believes that those fundamental rights include	不仅如此,他认为这些基本权利包括:
11	a natural right to life, liberty and property.	生命、自由和财产的自然权利。
12	And, furthermore, he argues that the right to property	此外,他主张财产权
13	is not just the creation of government or of law.	不仅仅是建立政府或法律。
14	The right to property is a natural right	财产权是一项自然权利
15	in the sense that it is pre-political.	也就是说,这是政治性的。
16	It is a right that attaches to individuals as human beings,	这是个人作为人的权利,
17	even before government comes on the scene,	甚至在政府出现之前
18	even before parliaments and legislatures enact laws	甚至在议会和立法机构颁布法律之前
19	to define rights and to enforce them.	界定权利并执行这些权利。
20	Locke says in order to think about what it means to have a natural right,	洛克说为了思考拥有自然权利的意义
21	we have to imagine the way things are before government, before law.	我们必须想象政府面前,法律面前的状态。
22	And that's what Locke means by the state of nature.	而这就是洛克根据自然状态的含义.
23	He says the state of nature is a state of liberty.	他说自然状态是自由状态.
24	Human beings are free and equal beings.	人类是自由平等的。
25	There is no natural hierarchy.	没有自然的等级。
26	It's not the case that some people are born to be kings	有些人生来就是为了当国王
27	and others are born to be serfs.	其他人生来就是农奴
28	We are free and equal in the state of nature.	我们在自然状态下是自由和平等的。
29	And yet, he makes the point that there's a difference	然而,他却说,有区别
30	between a state of liberty and a state of license.	自由状态和许可证状态之间。
31	And the reason is that even in the state of nature,	原因是即使在自然状态下
32	there is a kind of law.	有一种法律。
33	It's not the kind of law that legislatures enact.	这不是立法机关颁布的法律.
34	It's a law of nature.	谓自然之法.
35	And this law of nature constrains what we can do,	而这种自然法则制约了我们所能做的事情,
36	even though we're free, even though we're in the state of nature.	尽管我们自由了尽管我们处于自然状态
37	Well, what are the constraints?	那么,是什么限制?
38	The only constraint given by the law of nature is that the rights we have,	自然法则给予的唯一限制是,我们拥有的权利,
39	the natural rights we have, we can't give up,	我们拥有的自然权利我们不能放弃
40	nor can we take them from somebody else.	我们也不能把他们从别人那里带走。
41	Under the law of nature, I'm not free to take somebody else's life	根据自然法则,我不能随意夺走别人的生命
42	or liberty or property,	或自由或财产,
43	nor am I free to take my own life or liberty or property.	我也不能自由地夺走自己的生命或自由或财产。
44	Even though I'm free, I'm not free to violate the law of nature.	虽自在无量无边无量无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边
45	I'm not free to take my own life or to sell myself into slavery	我无法自由夺去自己的生命也无法出卖自己成为奴隶
46	or to give to somebody else arbitrary absolute power over me.	或者把绝对的权力交给别人
47	So where does this constraint,	那么,这种限制在哪里,
48	you may think it's a fairly minimal constraint,	你可能认为这是一个很小的制约,
49	but where does it come from?	但从哪里来的?
50	Well, Locke tells us where it comes from.	洛克告诉我们它从哪里来的
51	And he gives two answers.	他给出了两个答案。
52	Here's the first answer.	这是第一个答案。
53	For men, being all the workmanship	对男人来说,做所有的工作
54	of one omnipotent and infinitely wise maker, namely God,	他是全能的、至睿的创造者,
55	they are his property,	他们是他的财产,
56	whose workmanship they are made to last during his,	他们的劳动是在他的期间完成的,
57	not one another's, pleasure.	不是彼此的,快乐。
58	So one answer to the question is why can't I give up my natural rights	所以问题的一个答案是为什么我不能放弃我的自然权利
59	to life, liberty and property is,	生命、自由和财产,
60	well, they're not strictly speaking yours.	严格说来,它们不是你的
61	After all, you are the creature of God.	毕竟你是上帝的创造者
62	God has a bigger property right in us, a prior property right.	上帝对我们有更大的财产权利, 一种先前的财产权。
63	Now you might say that's an unsatisfying, unconvincing answer,	现在你可能说这是一个不满意, 令人信服的答案,
64	at least for those who don't believe in God.	至少对不相信上帝的人来说
65	What did Locke have to say to them?	洛克对他们说了什么?
66	Well, here's where Locke appeals to the idea of reason.	好吧,这是洛克呼吁理性的想法。
67	And this is the idea that if we properly reflect	这就是这个想法如果我们正确反映
68	on what it means to be free,	自由意味着什么,
69	we will be led to the conclusion that freedom	我们将得出自由
70	can't just be a matter of doing whatever we want.	不能只是做我们想做的事
71	I think this is what Locke means when he says,	我想这是洛克的意思当他说,
72	the state of nature has a law of nature to govern it	自然状态有自然法则来支配它
73	which obliges everyone, and reason, which is that law,	要求每个人和理性,这是法律,
74	teaches mankind who will but consult it	教人只以物配主,
75	that all being equal and independent,	人人平等独立,
76	no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty or possessions.	任何人都不应伤害他人的生命、健康、自由或财产。
77	This leads to a puzzling paradoxical feature	这导致一个令人费解的矛盾特征
78	of Locke's account of rights,	洛克的权利,
79	familiar in one sense but strange in another.	一种意义上很熟悉但另一种意义上很陌生
80	It's the idea that our natural rights are unalienable.	我们的自然权利不可剥夺
81	What does unalienable mean?	不可剥夺是什么意思?
82	It's not for us to alienate them or to give them up,	我们不应该疏远他们或者放弃他们
83	to give them away, to trade them away, to sell them.	把他们送走把他们卖掉
84	Consider an airline ticket.	考虑一张机票。
85	Airline tickets are non-transferable,	飞机票不可转让,
86	or tickets to the Patriots or to the Red Sox.	或者去爱国者队或者红袜队
87	Non-transferable tickets are unalienable.	不可转让车票不可转让.
88	I own them in the limited sense that I can use them for myself,	我拥有它们有限意义上,我可以使用它们自己,
89	but I can't trade them away.	但我不能把它们换掉
90	So in one sense, an unalienable right, a non-transferable right,	所以从某种意义上说,不可剥夺的权利,不可转让的权利,
91	makes something I own less fully mine.	使我拥有的东西不那么完全。
92	But in another sense of unalienable rights,	但在另一个不可剥夺的权利意义上,
93	especially where we're thinking about life, liberty and property,	尤其是我们想着生活自由和财产的地方
94	for a right to be unalienable makes it more deeply, more profoundly mine.	一项不可剥夺的权利使它更深刻、更深刻地属于我。
95	And that's Locke's sense of unalienable.	这也是洛克不可剥夺的感觉.
96	We see it in the American Declaration of Independence.	我们在《美国独立宣言》中看到了这一点。
97	Thomas Jefferson drew on this idea of Locke.	托马斯·杰斐逊借鉴了洛克的这个想法.
98	Unalienable rights to life, liberty, and as Jefferson amended Locke,	生命、自由的不可剥夺的权利和杰斐逊修正的洛克,
99	to the pursuit of happiness.	为了追求幸福
100	Unalienable rights.	不可剥夺的权利。
101	Rights that are so essentially mine	基本上属于我的权利
102	that even I can't trade them away or give them up.	连我也不能交换他们也不能放弃他们
103	So these are the rights we have in the state of nature	这就是我们自然状态下的权利
104	before there is any government.	在政府成立之前
105	In the case of life and liberty, I can't take my own life,	就生命和自由而言我无法夺走自己的生命
106	I can't sell myself into slavery any more than I can take somebody else's life	我不能再把自己出卖为奴隶了我只能夺走别人的生命
107	or take someone else's slave by force.	或者用武力夺取别人的奴隶
108	But how does that work in the case of property?	但是,在财产方面,这有什么作用呢?
109	Because it's essential to Locke's case	因为这对洛克的案子很重要
110	that private property can arise	私人财产可能发生
111	even before there is any government.	甚至在政府成立之前
112	How can there be a right to private property	怎么会有私有财产权
113	even before there is any government?	甚至在没有政府之前
114	Locke's famous answer comes in Section 27.	洛克的著名答案出现在第27节.
115	Every man has a property in his own person.	每个人都有自己的财产
116	This nobody has any right to but himself.	只有他自己才有这个权利
117	The labor of his body and the work of his hands,	他的身体和手的功劳,
118	we may say, are properly his.	我们可以说,是他的正确。
119	So he moves, as the libertarians later would move,	所以他动了自由主义者后来会动
120	from the idea that we own ourselves,	从我们自己的想法,
121	that we have property in our persons,	我们拥有我们的财产,
122	to the closely connected idea that we own our own labor.	与我们拥有自己的劳动力这个密切相关的想法。
123	And from that to the further claim	从这到进一步的索赔
124	that whatever we mix our labor with that is unowned	不管我们把工作和工作混在一起
125	becomes our property.	成为我们的财产。
126	Whatever he removes out of the state that nature has provided and left it in,	不管他把大自然提供的东西都从状态中清除出来
127	he has mixed his labor with and joined it to something that is his own	他把工作和工作混为一谈
128	and thereby makes it his property.	从而成为他的财产。
129	Why?	为什么?
130	Because the labor is the unquestionable property of the laborer,	因为劳工是劳工无可置疑的财产,
131	and therefore no one but the laborer can have a right	因此,只有劳动者才有权利,
132	to what is joined to or mixed with his labor.	与他的劳动结合或混合。
133	And then he adds this important provision,	然后他又增加了这个重要条款,
134	at least where there is enough and is good left in common for others.	至少在足够和对他人有好处的地方。
135	But we not only acquire a property in the fruits of the earth,	我们不仅以大地的果实获得财产,
136	in the deer that we hunt, in the fish that we catch,	我们猎杀的鹿,我们捕捉的鱼,
137	but also if we till and plow and enclose the land and grow potatoes,	如果我们能耕田种土豆
138	we own not only the potatoes but the land, the earth.	我们不仅拥有马铃薯而且拥有土地土地
139	As much land as a man tills, plants, improves, cultivates,	和男人一样多的土地耕种改良耕种
140	and can use, the product of so much is his property.	并且可以使用, 这么多的产物是他的财产。
141	He, by his labor, encloses it from the commons.	他以他的劳绩,把它从公道中夺取。
142	So the idea that rights are unalienable seems to distance Locke from the libertarian.	所以权利不可剥夺的观点似乎让洛克与自由主义者保持距离.
143	The libertarian wants to say we have an absolute property right in ourselves	自由主义者想说我们自己有绝对的财产权
144	and therefore we can do with ourselves whatever we want.	因此,我们可以做我们自己想要的。
145	Locke is not a sturdy ally for that view.	洛克不是那种观点的坚定盟友
146	In fact, he says if you take natural rights seriously,	事实上,他说如果你认真对待自然权利
147	you'll be led to the idea that there are certain constraints	你会得到一个想法有一些限制
148	on what we can do with our natural rights,	关于我们能做什么我们的自然权利,
149	constraints given either by God or by reason,	或因真主或缘故而加以限制,
150	reflecting on what it means really to be free	思考自由的真正意义
151	and really to be free means recognizing that our rights are unalienable.	真正自由意味着承认我们的权利不可剥夺。
152	So here's the difference between Locke and the libertarians,	洛克和自由主义者的区别如下
153	but when it comes to Locke's account of private property,	但是关于洛克的私人财产
154	he begins to look again like a pretty good ally	他开始看起来像一个很好的盟友
155	because his argument for private property begins with the idea	因为他关于私有财产的争论始于这个想法
156	that we are the proprietors of our own person and therefore of our labor	我们是我们个人的主人也因此是我们劳动的主人
157	and therefore of the fruits of our labor,	和我们劳动的果实,
158	including not only the things we gather and hunt in the state of nature,	不仅包括我们在自然状态下采集和猎杀的东西,
159	but also we acquire property right in the land that we enclose and cultivate and improve.	也获得我们土地的产权土地的封存、耕种和改善
160	There are some examples that can bring out the moral intuition	有些例子可以说明道德的直觉
161	that our labor can take something that is unowned and make it ours,	我们的劳动可以拿走一些没有所有权的东西使之成为我们的
162	though sometimes there are disputes about this.	虽然有时有争议
163	There's a debate among rich countries and developing countries	富国和发展中国家之间有争论
164	about trade-related intellectual property rights.	关于与贸易有关的知识产权。
165	It came to a head recently over drug patent laws.	药用专利法最近引起了人们的注意
166	Western countries, and especially the United States,	西方国家,特别是美国,
167	say we have a big pharmaceutical industry that develops new drugs.	说我们有一个大型制药业开发新的药物。
168	We want all countries in the world to agree to respect the patents.	我们希望世界各国同意尊重专利。
169	Then there came along the AIDS crisis in South Africa.	然后南非的艾滋病危机也随之而来。
170	The American AIDS drugs were hugely expensive,	美国艾滋病药物非常昂贵,
171	far more than could be afforded by most Africans.	远远超出了大多数非洲人所能提供的范围。
172	The South African government said,	南非政府说,
173	we are going to begin to buy a generic version of the AIDS antiretroviral drug	我们将要开始购买艾滋病抗逆转录病毒药物的通用版本
174	at a tiny fraction of the cost because we can find an Indian manufacturing company	成本的一小部分因为我们能找到一家印度制造公司
175	that figures out how the thing is made and produces it,	找出东西是如何制造和产生的,
176	and for a tiny fraction of the cost we can save lives if we don't respect that patent.	如果我们不尊重专利我们就能挽救生命
177	Then the American government said,	美国政府说,
178	no, here's a company that invested research and created this drug.	不,这里的一家公司投资研究并创造了这种药物。
179	You can't just start mass producing these drugs without paying a licensing fee.	你不能不付许可证费就开始大规模生产这些药物。
180	So there was a dispute.	所以发生了争执
181	The pharmaceutical companies sued the South African government	制药公司起诉南非政府
182	to try to prevent their buying the cheap, generic, as they saw it,	试图阻止他们购买廉价的,通用的, 他们看到了它,
183	pirated version of an AIDS drug.	盗版的艾滋病药物。
184	Eventually the pharmaceutical industry gave in and said, all right, you can do that.	最终制药业让步,说,好吧,你可以做到这一点。
185	But this dispute about what the rules of property should be,	但关于财产规则应该是什么的争议,
186	of intellectual property, of drug patenting,	知识产权,药物专利,
187	in a way is the last frontier of the state of nature because among nations	在某种程度上,这是自然状态的最后一线因为各国之间
188	where there is no uniform law of patent rights and property rights,	在没有关于专利权和财产权的统一法律的情况下,
189	it's up for grabs until by some act of consent, some international agreement,	直到某种同意行为一些国际协议
190	people enter into some settled rules.	人们会遵守一些既定的规则。
191	What about Locke's account of private property	那洛克的私人财产账户呢?
192	and how it can arise before government and before law comes on the scene?	如何在政府和法律出现之前出现?
193	Is it successful?	成功了吗?
194	How many think it's pretty persuasive?	有多少人认为这很有说服力?
195	Raise your hand.	举手曰.
196	How many don't find it persuasive?	有多少人觉得没有说服力?
197	All right, let's hear from some critics.	好吧,让我们听听一些批评者。
198	What is wrong with Locke's account of how private property can arise without consent?	洛克关于私人财产如何不经同意而产生的说法有什么问题?
199	Yes.	对
200	Yeah, I think it justifies European cultural norms as far as,	是的,我认为它证明欧洲文化规范,因为,
201	when you look at how Native Americans may not have cultivated American land,	当你看着美国原住民如何没有种植美国土地,
202	but by their arrival in the Americas,	但随着他们来到美洲
203	that contributed to the development of America,	有助于美国的发展,
204	which wouldn't have otherwise necessarily happened then or by that specific group.	如果不是那样的话,那就不一定发生或者是那个特定群体干的
205	So you think that this is a defense, this defense of private property in land.	所以你认为这是对土地私有财产的辩护
206	Yes, because it complicates original acquisition	是的,因为它使原始购置变得复杂
207	if you only cite the arrival of foreigners that cultivated the land.	如果你只引用外国人的到来耕种土地。
208	I see. And what's your name?	原来如此你叫什么来着?
209	Rochelle.	罗谢尔
210	Rochelle?	罗谢尔?
211	Yeah.	对
212	Rochelle says this account of how property arises	Rochelle说这是财产的产生方式
213	would fit what was going on in North America	和北美发生的事情相符
214	during the time of the European settlement.	在欧洲定居期间。
215	Do you think, Rochelle, that it's a way of defending the appropriation of the land?	罗谢尔,你觉得这是为土地的占有辩护吗?
216	Indeed.	没错
217	Because, I mean, he's also justifying the Glorious Revolution,	因为他也为光荣革命辩护
218	so I don't think it's inconceivable that he's also justifying colonization as well.	所以我不认为他也为殖民辩护是不可思议的。
219	Well, it's an interesting historical suggestion,	这是一个有趣的历史建议,
220	and I think there's a lot to be said for it.	我觉得有很多话要说
221	What do you think of the validity of his argument, though?	你觉得他的论点有效吗?
222	Because if you're right that this would justify the taking of land in North America	因为如果你是对的,这样就可以在北美夺取土地
223	from Native Americans who didn't enclose it,	从美洲原住民那里拿来的,他们没有带
224	if it's a good argument, then Locke's given us a justification for that.	如果这是个好理由那洛克给我们一个理由
225	If it's a bad argument, then Locke's given us a mere rationalization	如果这是个糟糕的争论,那么洛克给了我们一个简单的合理化
226	that isn't morally defensible.	这在道德上是不合理的。
227	I'm leaning to the second one.	倚于二门.
228	You're leaning to the second.	汝向二处倾斜.
229	But that's my opinion as well.	但这也是我的看法。
230	All right.	好吧,我们走。
231	Well, then let's hear if there's a defender of Locke's account of private property,	那让我们听听洛克的私人财产账户是否有维护者
232	and it would be interesting if they could address Rochelle's worry	如果他们能解决罗谢尔的忧虑那会很有趣
233	that this is just a way of defending the appropriation of land	这只是一种捍卫土地占有的方法
234	by the American colonists from the Native Americans who didn't enclose it.	由来自美洲原住民的殖民者,他们没有把它。
235	Is there someone who will defend Locke on that point?	有没有人会为此为洛克辩护?
236	Are you going to defend Locke?	你要为洛克辩护吗?
237	You're accusing him of justifying the European basically massacre of the Native Americans,	你指控他为欧洲屠杀美洲原住民辩护
238	but who says he's defending it?	但谁说他在捍卫它?
239	Maybe the European colonization isn't right.	也许欧洲殖民是不对的
240	Maybe it's the state of war that he talked about in his second treatise.	也许是他在第二部论文中谈到的战争状态.
241	So the wars between the Native Americans and the colonists, the settlers,	美洲原住民和殖民者定居者之间的战争
242	that might have been a state of war that we can only emerge from by an agreement or an act of consent,	我们只能通过协议或同意行为才能摆脱战争状态,
243	and that's what would have been required.	而这正是需要的。
244	Yeah, and both sides would have had to agree to it and carry it out and everything.	是啊,双方都必须同意并执行它和一切。
245	But what about when, what's your name?	但何时,你叫什么名字?
246	Dan.	丹语.
247	But Dan, what about Rochelle says this argument in Section 27 and then in 32 about appropriating land,	但Dan Rochelle在27节和32节里说到占有土地
248	that argument, if it's valid, would justify the settlers appropriating that land and excluding others from it.	如果这一论点是有效的,那么定居者就有理由侵占这块土地,将其他人排除在外。
249	Do you think that argument's a good argument?	你觉得这种争论很好吗?
250	Well, doesn't it kind of imply that the Native Americans hadn't already done that?	难道这不意味着美洲原住民还没有这样做吗?
251	Well, the Native Americans as hunter-gatherers didn't actually enclose land,	美洲原住民作为猎人采集者并没有真正封存土地
252	so I think Rochelle is onto something there.	所以,我认为罗谢尔发现的东西在那里。
253	But I want to, I'd like to, go ahead, Dan.	但我想,我想,继续,丹。
254	At the same time, he's saying that just by picking an acorn or taking an apple or maybe killing a buffalo on a certain amount of land,	他同时说,只要挑个橡子或者拿个苹果或者在一定的土地上杀死一只水牛
255	that makes it yours because it's your labor and that's, you know, your labor would enclose that land.	因为它是你的劳动,你知道, 你的劳动会吞噬那块土地。
256	So by that definition, maybe they didn't have fences around little plots of land but didn't...	因此,根据这个定义,也许他们没有围在小块土地周围的栅栏,但是没有...
257	They were using it.	他们用它。
258	Yeah, by Locke's definition.	是的,根据洛克的定义。
259	So maybe by Locke's definition, the Native Americans could have claimed the property right in the land itself.	所以也许根据洛克的定义,美洲原住民可以要求土地本身的财产权.
260	But they just didn't have Locke on their side, as she points out.	但他们只是没有洛克站在他们一边,正如她所指出的.
261	Okay, that's good.	好吧,这是很好的。
262	One more defender of Locke.	洛克的一位卫士
263	Go ahead.	来吧。
264	Well, I mean, just defend Locke.	嗯,我的意思是,只是为洛克辩护。
265	He does say that there are some times in which you can't take another person's land.	他确实说过,有时你不能夺走别人的土地。
266	For example, you can't acquire land that is common property.	例如,你不能获取作为共同财产的土地.
267	See, people in terms of American Indians, I feel like they already had civilizations themselves and they were using land in common.	你看,从美国印第安人的角度来说, 我觉得他们已经有自己的文明, 他们正在使用共同的土地。
268	So it's kind of like an analogy to what he was talking about with like the common English property.	因此,这有点像一个类比他正在谈论什么像共同的英国财产。
269	You can't take land that everybody's sharing in common.	你不能拿走大家共享的土地
270	Oh, that's interesting.	哦,这很有趣。
271	And also you can't take land unless you make sure that there's as much land as possible left for other people to take as well.	另外,除非确保尽可能多的土地留给其他人也占用,否则你不能夺取土地.
272	So you have to make sure that whenever you take land or that there's enough left for other people to use.	所以,你必须保证,每当你夺取土地或有足够的剩余时间让其他人使用。
273	That's just as good as the land that you took.	这和你夺走的土地一样好
274	That's true.	没错
275	Locke says there has to be this right to private property in the earth is subject to the provision that there be as much and as good left for others.	洛克说,地球上必须有这种对私有财产的权利,但必须遵守为他人留下同样多和同样好的遗产的规定.
276	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
277	I'm Feng.	我叫冯
278	So Feng in a way agrees with Dan that maybe there is a claim within Locke's framework that could be developed on behalf of the Native Americans.	所以冯在某种程度上同意丹的观点,或许洛克框架内有可以代表美洲原住民开发的主张.
279	Here's the further question.	更问曰.
280	If the right to private property is natural, not conventional,	如果私有财产权是自然的,而不是常规的,
281	if it's something that we acquire even before we agree to government,	如果这是我们在同意政府之前获得的东西
282	how does that right constrain what a legitimate government can do?	这个权利如何限制一个合法政府能做什么?
283	In order finally to see whether Locke is an ally or potentially a critic of the libertarian idea,	为了最终了解洛克是盟友还是潜在的自由主义思想的批评者,
284	of the state, we have to ask what becomes of our natural rights once we enter into society.	国家,我们必须问,一旦我们进入社会,我们的自然权利会变成什么。
285	We know that the way we enter into society is by consent, by agreement.	我们知道,我们进入社会的方式是通过同意和协议。
286	To leave the state of nature and to be governed by the majority and by a system of laws, human laws.	离开自然状态,受多数人和一套法律,人文法律的支配.
287	But those human laws are only legitimate if they respect our natural rights,	但是,这些人权法律只有尊重我们的自然权利才是合法的,
288	if they respect our unalienable rights to life, liberty and property.	如果他们尊重我们不可剥夺的生命、自由和财产权利。
289	No parliament, no legislature, however democratic its credentials,	没有议会,没有立法机构,无论多么民主
290	can legitimately violate our natural rights.	可以合法地侵犯我们的自然权利。
291	This idea that no law can violate our right to life, liberty and property	认为任何法律都不能侵犯我们的生命权、自由和财产权的想法
292	would seem to support the idea of a government so limited	似乎支持这样一个政府的想法:
293	that it would gladden the heart of the libertarian after all.	它会高兴的自由主义者的心脏毕竟。
294	But those hearts should not be so quickly gladdened	但那些心不应该这么快高兴
295	because even though for Locke the law of nature persists once government arrives,	因为即使对洛克来说,一旦政府到来,自然法则就一直存在,
296	even though Locke insists on limited government,	尽管洛克坚持有限政府,
297	government limited by the end for which it was created, namely the preservation of property,	保护财产,
298	even so there's an important sense in which what counts as my property,	即便如此也有一种重要的意义即什么才是我的财产
299	what counts as respecting my life and liberty are for the government to define.	重要的是尊重我的生命和自由由政府来定义
300	That there be property, that there be respect for life and liberty,	有财产,有尊重生命和自由,
301	is what limits government.	是政府的限制
302	But what counts as respecting my life and respecting my property,	但重要的是尊重我的生命尊重我的财产
303	that is for governments to decide and to define.	由各国政府决定和界定。
304	How can that be?	怎么会这样?
305	Is Locke contradicting himself or is there an important distinction here?	洛克是自相矛盾,还是在这里有重要的区别?
306	In order to answer that question which will decide Locke's fit with the libertarian view,	为了回答那个决定洛克与自由主义观点相符的问题
307	we need to look closely at what legitimate government looks like for Locke	我们需要仔细观察洛克的合法政府是什么样子
308	and we turn to that next time.	下次再谈这个
309	Nikolai, if you didn't think you'd get caught, would you pay your taxes?	尼古拉,如果你不认为你会被抓到你会交税吗?
310	I don't think so.	亦不见.
311	I would rather have a system personally that I could give money to exactly those sections of the government	我个人更希望有一个系统能给政府那些部门钱
312	that I support and not just blanket support everything.	我不仅支持一切,而且支持一切。
313	You'd rather be in the state of nature at least on April 15th.	你宁愿在4月15日进入自然状态.
314	Last time we began to discuss Locke's state of nature, his account of private property,	上次我们讨论洛克的自然状况他的私人财产
315	his theory of legitimate government which is government based on consent and also limited government.	他的合法政府理论也就是基于同意的政府以及有限的政府
316	Locke believes in certain fundamental rights that constrain what government can do	洛克相信某些基本权利限制政府能做什么
317	and he believes that those rights are natural rights, not rights that flow from law or from government.	他认为,这些权利是自然权利,而不是来自法律或政府的权利。
318	And so Locke's great philosophical experiment is to see if he can give an account	所以洛克的伟大的哲学实验就是看看他能不能说出
319	of how there could be a right to private property without consent	如何不经同意而享有私有财产权
320	before government and legislators arrive on the scene to define property.	在政府和立法者到达现场界定财产之前。
321	That's his question, that's his claim.	这是他的问题,这是他的主张。
322	There is a way, Locke argues, to create property not just in the things we gather and hunt,	洛克认为,有办法创造财产不仅仅是我们收集的猎物
323	but in the land itself, provided there is enough and is good luck for others	但是,在土地本身,只要有足够的,为他人带来好运
324	Today I want to turn to the question of consent, which is Locke's second big idea.	今天我想谈谈同意问题,这是洛克的第二个大主意。
325	Private property is one, consent is the other.	私有财产为一,同意为二.
326	What is the work of consent?	同意有什么作用?
327	People here have been invoking the idea of consent since we began, since the first week.	自从我们开始,从第一个星期开始,这里的人们就一直在援引同意的想法。
328	You remember when we were talking about pushing the fat man off the bridge, someone said,	你还记得当时我们谈论把胖子推下桥, 有人说,
329	but he didn't agree to sacrifice himself.	但他不同意牺牲自己
330	It would be different if he consented.	如果他同意,那会不同。
331	Or when we were talking about the cabin boy, killing and eating the cabin boy.	或者当我们谈论小屋男孩, 杀死和吃小屋男孩。
332	Some people said, well, if they had consented to a lottery, it would be different, then it would be alright.	有些人说,如果同意彩票,就不一样了,那就没事了。
333	So consent has come up a lot, and here in John Locke, we have one of the great philosophers of consent.	所以同意已经产生了很多, 在约翰洛克,我们有一个伟大的哲学家同意。
334	Consent is an obvious, familiar idea in moral and political philosophy.	同意是道德和政治哲学中一个明显和熟悉的想法。
335	Locke says that legitimate government is government founded on consent,	洛克说合法政府是建立在同意基础上的政府,
336	and who nowadays would disagree with him?	现在谁会不同意他的意见?
337	Sometimes when the ideas of political philosophers are as familiar as Locke's ideas about consent,	有时当政治哲学家的想法和洛克关于同意的想法一样熟悉时,
338	it's hard to make sense of them, or at least to find them very interesting.	很难理解他们, 或者至少找到他们非常有趣。
339	But there are some puzzles, some strange features,	但有些谜题,有些怪异的特征
340	of Locke's account of consent as the basis of legitimate government.	洛克同意是合法政府的基础
341	And that's what I'd like to take up today.	而今欲举此.
342	One way of testing the plausibility of Locke's idea of consent,	检验洛克同意的想法是否可信的方法之一
343	and also probing some of its perplexities,	并检讨其中的一部分迷惑;
344	is to ask just what a legitimate government founded on consent can do,	问一个建立在同意基础上的合法政府能做什么,
345	what are its powers according to Locke?	洛克认为它有什么能力?
346	Well, in order to answer that question, it helps to remember what the state of nature is like.	为了回答这个问题,它有助于记住自然状态是什么样子。
347	Remember, the state of nature is the condition that we decide to leave,	记住自然状态是我们决定离开的条件
348	and that's what gives rise to consent.	而这就是引起同意的原因。
349	Why not stay there? Why bother with government at all?	为什么不呆在那里? 为什么要烦政府?
350	Well, what's Locke's answer to that question?	那么,洛克的答案是什么?
351	He says there are some inconveniences in the state of nature, but what are those inconveniences?	他说自然界有些不便,但有什么不便?
352	The main inconvenience is that everyone can enforce the law of nature.	主要的不便在于每个人都可以执行自然法则.
353	Everyone is an enforcer, or what Locke calls the executor, of the state of nature.	每个人都是一个执行者, 或洛克所说的执行者, 自然状态。
354	And he means executor literally.	他的意思是执行者
355	If someone violates the law of nature, he's an aggressor, he's beyond reason, and you can punish him.	如果有人违反自然法则,他是一个侵略者,他是没有理智的,你可以惩罚他.
356	And you don't have to be too careful or fine about gradations of punishment in the state of nature.	而自然状态下的处罚等级,也不必过于谨慎或罚款.
357	You can kill him. You can certainly kill someone who comes after you, tries to murder you.	你可以杀了他。你当然可以杀死一个追杀你的人试图谋杀你
358	That's self-defense.	这是自卫
359	But the enforcement power, the right to punish, everyone can do the punishing in the state of nature.	但执法权,惩罚权,每个人都可以在自然状态下进行惩罚.
360	And not only can you punish with death people who come after you, seeking to take your life,	你不仅能惩罚那些追杀你想要夺走你生命的人
361	you can also punish a thief who tries to steal your goods,	你也可以惩罚一个偷东西的小偷,
362	because that also counts as aggression against the law of nature.	因为这也构成对自然法则的侵犯。
363	If someone has stolen from a third party, you can go after him.	如果有人偷了第三方的东西你可以去追他
364	Why is this? Well, violations of the law of nature are an act of aggression.	为什么? 违反自然法则是侵略行为
365	There is no police force, there are no judges, no juries.	没有警察部队,没有法官,没有陪审团。
366	So everyone is the judge in his or her own case.	所以每个人都是自己案件的法官。
367	And Locke observes that when people are the judges of their own cases, they tend to get carried away.	而洛克观察到,当人们成为自己案件的裁判时,他们往往会变得心烦意乱.
368	And this gives rise to the inconvenience in the state of nature.	这引起了自然状态的不便.
369	People overshoot the mark, there's aggression, there's punishment,	人们过度射击标记, 有侵略,有惩罚,
370	and before you know it, everybody is insecure in the enjoyment	在你们知道之前,每个人都是不享受的,
371	of his or her unalienable rights to life, liberty and property.	享有生命、自由和财产的不可剥夺的权利。
372	Now he describes in pretty harsh and even grim terms what you can do to people who violate the law of nature.	现在他用非常严酷,甚至严酷的语气,描述你能对违反自然法则的人做些什么.
373	One may destroy a man who makes war upon him for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion.	人们可以摧毁一个为杀死狼或狮子而对他开战的人.
374	Such men have no other rule but that of force and violence.	这些人除了武力和暴力之外没有其他规则。
375	Listen to this, and so may be treated as beasts of prey,	听这个,所以可能会被当成猎物的野兽
376	those dangerous and noxious creatures that will be sure to destroy you if you fall into their power.	那些危险和有毒的生物如果你落入他们的魔掌一定会毁灭你
377	So kill them first.	先杀了他们
378	So what starts out as a seemingly benign state of nature	所以,什么是开始一个看起来良好自然状态
379	where everyone's free and yet where there is a law and the law respects people's rights	人人自由,但有法律和法律尊重人民的权利
380	and those rights are so powerful that they're unalienable, what starts out looking very benign	这些权利是如此强大,以至于不可剥夺一开始看起来非常善良
381	once you look closer is pretty fierce and filled with violence and that's why people want to leave.	一旦你近距离看就会很凶猛充满暴力这就是为什么人们想离开
382	How do they leave?	他们怎么走?
383	Well, here's where consent comes in.	同意书在这里
384	The only way to escape from the state of nature is to undertake an act of consent	摆脱自然状态的唯一途径是采取同意行动
385	where you agree to give up the enforcement power and to create a government or a community	在你同意放弃执行权并建立一个政府或社区的情况下
386	where there will be a legislature to make law and where everyone agrees in advance,	将有一个立法机构来制定法律,而且每个人都事先同意,
387	everyone who enters agrees in advance to abide by whatever the majority decides.	无论多数人决定什么,所有进入者都同意遵守。
388	But then the question, and this is our question and here's where I want to get your views,	但问题是,这是我们的问题我想在这里得到你的看法,
389	then the question is what powers, what can the majority decide?	那么问题是,什么是权力,什么是多数能决定?
390	Now here it gets tricky for Locke because you remember alongside the whole story about consent	现在对洛克来说很棘手因为你记得关于同意的整个故事
391	and majority rule there are these natural rights, the law of nature, these unalienable rights	这些自然权利、自然法则、不可剥夺的权利
392	and you remember they don't disappear when people join together to create a civil society.	你还记得当人们联手创建公民社会时他们不会消失
393	So even once the majority is in charge, the majority can't violate your unalienable rights,	因此,即使多数人当权,多数人也不能侵犯你的不可剥夺的权利,
394	can't violate your fundamental right to life, liberty and property.	不能侵犯你的基本生命、自由和财产权利。
395	So here's the puzzle.	这就是谜题。
396	How much power does the majority have?	多数人有多少权力?
397	How limited is the government created by consent?	经同意成立的政府有多么有限?
398	It's limited by the obligation on the part of the majority to respect and to enforce	它受到多数人尊重和强制执行的义务的限制
399	the fundamental natural rights of the citizens.	公民的基本自然权利。
400	They don't give those up, we don't give those up when we enter government.	他们不放弃这些,我们进入政府时不放弃这些.
401	That's this powerful idea taken over from Locke by Jefferson in the declaration.	这就是Jefferson在宣言中从洛克手中接管的强大想法.
402	Unalienable rights.	不可剥夺的权利。
403	So let's go to our two cases.	因此,让我们去我们的两个案件。
404	Remember Michael Jordan, Bill Gates, the libertarian objection to taxation for redistribution.	记得迈克尔·乔丹,比尔·盖茨,自由主义者反对为再分配征税.
405	Well what about Locke's limited government?	那洛克的有限政府怎么办?
406	Is there anyone who thinks that Locke does give grounds for opposing taxation for redistribution?	是否有人认为洛克确实为反对再分配征税提供了理由?
407	Anybody? Go ahead.	有人吗? 来吧。
408	If the majority rules that there should be taxation, even if the minority should still not have to be taxed	如果多数人规定应征税,即使少数群体仍不必征税
409	because that's taking away property, which is one of the rights of nature.	因为这是夺去财产这是自然的权利之一
410	Alright, so, and what's your name? Ben.	好吧,那么,你叫什么来着? 宾.
411	So if the majority taxes the minority without the consent of the minority to that particular tax law,	因此,如果多数人未经少数人同意而向该少数人征税,那么,
412	it does amount to a taking of their property without their consent	这确实等于未经他们同意而夺走他们的财产。
413	and it would seem that Locke should object to that.	洛克似乎应该反对
414	Do you want some textual support for your view, for your reading of Locke, Ben?	你想从文字上支持你的观点吗?
415	Alright. I brought some along just in case you raised it.	还好我带来了一些以防你提起来
416	If you have your texts, look at passage 138.	如果你有短信,请看138段。
417	The supreme power, by which Locke means the legislature,	最高权力洛克就是立法机构
418	cannot take from any man any part of his property without his own consent	未经本人同意,不得从任何人手中夺走其财产的任何部分。
419	for the preservation of property being the end of government	保护财产是政府的终结
420	and that for which men enter into society it necessarily supposes and requires that people should have property.	男人进入社会时,它必然要假设和要求人们拥有财产。
421	That was the whole reason for entering society in the first place.	这就是进入社会的原因。
422	To protect the right to property and when Locke speaks about the right to property,	为了保护财产权当洛克谈到财产权时
423	he often uses that as a kind of global term for the whole category,	他经常用这个术语来形容整个类别
424	the right to life, liberty and property.	生命权、自由和财产权。
425	So that part of Locke, at the beginning of 138, seems to support Ben's reading.	因此,138年初洛克的部分似乎支持本的阅读.
426	But what about the part of 138, if you keep reading?	如果你继续读的话,那138的那部分呢?
427	Men therefore in society having property, they have such a right to the goods	因此,在社会中,男人有财产,他们有这种对商品的权利
428	which by the law of the community are theirs.	以社区的法律,是他们的。
429	Look at this. And that no one can take from them without their consent.	看看这个。未经他们同意,任何人不得夺走他们的财产。
430	And then at the end of this passage he says,	然后,在这个段落的结尾,他说,
431	so it's a mistake to think that the legislative power can do what it will	因此,认为立法权可以做它会做的是一个错误
432	and dispose of the estates of the subject arbitrarily or take any part of them at pleasure.	任意处置主体的遗产或随意占有其中任何一部分。
433	Here's what's elusive.	这是难以捉摸的
434	On the one hand he says the government can't take your property without your consent.	一方面,他说政府不能抢走你的财产没有你的同意。
435	He's clear about that.	他很清楚这一点。
436	But then he goes on to say, and that's the natural right to property,	但是他接着说这就是财产权
437	but then it seems that property, what counts as property,	但似乎财产,什么是财产,
438	property is not natural but conventional, defined by the government.	财产不是自然的,而是传统的,由政府界定。
439	The goods which by the law of the community are theirs.	根据社区法律属于他们的商品。
440	And the plot thickens if you look ahead to section 140.	如果你往前看140节情节就会变厚
441	In 140 he says governments can't be supported without great charge.	在140年,他说政府不能在没有重大指控的情况下得到支持.
442	Government is expensive.	政府费用昂贵。
443	Isn't it fit that everyone who enjoys his share of the protection should pay out of his estate?	享受他那份保护的每个人都从他的庄园里付钱,这不合适吗?
444	And then here's the crucial line.	接下来是关键线。
445	But still it must be with his own consent, i.e. the consent of the majority,	但必须征得他本人的同意,即多数同意,
446	giving it either by themselves or through their representatives.	由自己或通过其代表给予。
447	So what is Locke actually saying?	洛克到底在说什么?
448	Property is natural in one sense but conventional in another.	财产在某种意义上是自然的,但在另一种意义上是传统的。
449	It's natural in the sense that we have a fundamental unalienable right	自然而然,我们有不可剥夺的基本权利
450	that there be property, that the institution of property exist and be respected by the government.	财产的存在和政府的尊重。
451	So an arbitrary taking of property would be a violation of the law of nature	所以任意抢夺财产就是违反自然法则
452	and would be illegitimate.	也是非法的
453	But it's a further question, here's the conventional aspect of property,	但还有一个问题财产的传统方面
454	and it's a further question what counts as property, how it's defined,	还有一个问题,什么是财产, 如何定义它,
455	and what counts as taking property, and that's up to the government.	以及什么是抢夺财产, 这取决于政府。
456	So the consent, here we're coming back to our question, what is the work of consent?	所以,同意,这里我们回到我们的问题, 什么是同意的工作?
457	What it takes for taxation to be legitimate is that it be by consent,	税收必须经同意才能合法,
458	not the consent of Bill Gates himself if he's the one who has to pay the tax,	不是比尔·盖茨本人同意的如果他是必须交税的人
459	but by the consent that he and we, all of us within the society, gave	但经他和我们社会所有人同意
460	when we emerged from the state of nature and created the government in the first place.	当我们从自然状态中崛起并创建了政府
461	It's the collective consent.	这是集体同意。
462	And by that reading, it looks like consent is doing a whole lot	读起来似乎同意是大功告成了
463	and the limited government consent creates isn't all that limited.	而有限的政府同意并不是所有的有限。
464	Does anyone want to respond to that or have a question about that?	是否有人对此做出回应或提出疑问?
465	Go ahead, stand up.	来吧,站起来。
466	Well, I'm just wondering what Locke's view is on,	我只是想知道洛克的观点是什么
467	once you have a government that's already in place,	一旦政府已经成立
468	whether it is possible for people who are born into that government	出生于该政府的人是否可以
469	to then leave and return to the state of nature.	然后离开,回到自然状态
470	I don't think that Locke mentioned that at all.	我觉得洛克根本没提过
471	What do you think?	你觉得呢?
472	Well, I think as the Convention,	我认为,作为公约,
473	it would be very difficult to leave the government	离开政府很难
474	because nobody else is just living in the state of nature.	因为没有人只是生活在自然状态。
475	Everybody else is now governed by this legislature.	其他人现在都由这个立法机构管理。
476	What would it mean today, you're asking, and what's your name?	今何谓,汝问之,何谓?
477	Nicola.	尼可拉尼可拉尼可拉
478	Suppose you wanted to leave civil society today,	如果你今天想离开公民社会
479	you want to withdraw your consent and return to the state of nature.	你想撤回你的同意回到自然状态
480	Well, because you didn't actually consent to it, you were just born into it.	嗯,因为你实际上没有同意它, 你只是出生在它。
481	It was your ancestors who joined.	是你祖先加入我们的
482	Right.	对
483	You didn't sign the social contract, I didn't sign it.	你没有签署社会契约我没有签署
484	Exactly.	没错
485	All right, so what does Locke say there?	好吧,洛克怎么说?
486	Yeah.	对
487	I don't think Locke says that you have to sign anything.	我不认为洛克说你必须签署任何事情。
488	I think that he says that it's kind of implied consent.	我认为他说这是暗示同意
489	By leaving and taking government services,	通过离开和接受政府服务,
490	you are implying that you are consenting to the government taking things from you.	你是在暗示你同意政府拿走你的东西
491	All right, so implied consent, that's a partial answer to this challenge.	好吧,所以暗示同意, 这是这个挑战的部分答案。
492	Now, you may not think that implied consent is as good as the real thing.	现在,你可能不认为暗示同意是与真实的一样好。
493	Is that what you're shaking your head about, Nicola?	这就是你摇头的原因吗,尼古拉?
494	Speak up.	说吧
495	Stand up and speak up.	起身说话.
496	I don't think that necessarily just by utilizing the government's	我认为这不一定只是利用政府的
497	you know, various resources that we are necessarily implying	你知道,各种资源我们必然意味着
498	that we agree with the way that this government was formed	我们同意政府的组成方式
499	or that we have consented to actually join into the social contract.	或者我们同意加入社会契约
500	So you don't think the idea of implied consent is strong enough	所以你认为暗示同意的想法还不够强
501	to generate any obligation at all to obey the government?	产生任何服从政府的义务?
502	Not necessarily, no.	不一定,没有。
503	Nicola, if you didn't think you'd get caught, would you pay your taxes?	尼可拉,如果你没想到你会被抓你会交税吗?
504	I don't think so.	亦不见.
505	I would rather have a system, personally,	我宁愿有一个系统,个人,
506	that I could give money to exactly those sections of the government that I support	我可以把钱给那些我支持的政府部门
507	and not just blanket support.	不只是一揽子支持。
508	You'd rather be in the state of nature, at least on April 15th.	你宁愿进入自然状态至少是在4月15日
509	But what I'm trying to get at is	但我想说的是
510	do you consider that you're under no obligation	你认为你没有义务
511	since you haven't actually entered into any act of consent?	既然你还没有达成任何同意?
512	But for prudential reasons, you do what you're supposed to do according to the law.	但出于谨慎之故,依律行其应.
513	Exactly.	没错
514	If you look at it that way, then you're violating another one of Locke's Treatises,	如果你这样看待它, 那么你违反了另一个洛克的治疗,
515	which is that you can't take anything from anyone else.	那就是你不能从别人那里夺走任何东西
516	Like, you can't take the government's services	你不能接受政府的服务
517	and then not give them anything in return.	而不给他们任何报酬。
518	If you want to go live in the state of nature, that's fine,	如果你想在自然状态下生活那没关系
519	but you can't take anything from the government because by the government's terms,	但你不能从政府那里夺走任何东西因为根据政府的规定
520	which are the only terms under which you can enter the agreement,	这是你唯一可以达成协议的条件,
521	say that you have to pay taxes to take those things.	说你要交税才能拿这些东西
522	So you're saying that Nicola can go back into the state of nature if she wants to,	所以,你是说,尼古拉可以回到自然状态如果她想,
523	but she can't drive on Mass Ave.	但她不能驾车去弥撒大道
524	Exactly.	没错
525	I want to raise the stakes beyond using Mass Ave and even beyond taxation.	我想提高赌注超越使用大众Ave 甚至超越税收。
526	What about life?	生活怎么办?
527	What about military conscription?	征兵怎么样?
528	Yes, what do you say? Stand up.	是的,你怎么说? 站起来
529	First of all, we have to remember that sending people to war	首先,我们必须记住,送人去打仗
530	is not necessarily implying that they'll die.	不一定意味着他们会死
531	I mean, obviously, you're not raising their chances here,	我的意思是,很明显, 你没有增加他们的机会在这里,
532	but it's not a death penalty.	但这不是死刑
533	So if you're going to discuss whether or not military conscription is equivalent	所以,如果你要讨论军队征兵是否相等
534	to, you know, suppressing people right to life,	压制人们的生命权
535	you shouldn't approach it that way.	你不应该这样对待它。
536	Secondly, the real problem here is Locke has this view about consent	第二,真正的问题是洛克对同意的看法
537	and natural rights, but you're not allowed to give up your natural rights either.	和自然权利, 但你也不能放弃你的自然权利。
538	So the real question is, you know, how does he himself figure it out	所以,真正的问题是,你知道, 他是如何自己想出来的
539	between I agree to give up my life, give up my property	我同意放弃我的生命放弃我的财产
540	when he talks about taxes or military conscription for the fact,	当他谈到税收或征兵时,
541	but I guess Locke would be against suicide.	但我猜洛克会反对自杀
542	And that's still, you know, my own consent.	这也是我本人同意的
543	I agree.	и種
544	Good. All right. What's your name?	不错好吧,我们走。你叫什么来着?
545	Eric.	爱瑞克
546	So Eric brings us back to the puzzle we've been wrestling with	Eric让我们回到了我们一直和他摔跤的谜题
547	since we started reading Locke.	自从我们开始读洛克。
548	On the one hand, we have these unalienable rights to life, liberty, and property,	一方面,我们拥有这些不可剥夺的生命、自由和财产权利,
549	which means that even we don't have the power to give them up.	这意味着即使我们没有权力放弃他们。
550	And that's what creates the limits on legitimate government.	这也是对合法政府的限制。
551	It's not what we consent to that limits government.	这不是我们同意的限制政府。
552	It's what we lack the power to give away when we consent that limits government.	这就是我们缺乏权力放弃当我们同意限制政府。
553	That's the point at the heart of Locke's whole account of legitimate government.	这就是洛克关于合法政府的全部说法的核心.
554	But now you say, well, if we can't give up our own life, if we can't commit suicide,	但现在你说,如果我们不能放弃自己的生命, 如果我们不能自杀,
555	if we can't give up our right to property,	如果我们不能放弃财产权
556	how can we then agree to be bound by a majority that will force us	我们怎能同意受多数人的约束,从而迫使我们
557	to sacrifice our lives or give up our property?	牺牲我们的生命或放弃我们的财产?
558	Does Locke have a way out of this?	洛克有办法吗?
559	Or is he basically sanctioning an all-powerful government,	或者他基本上是在制裁一个全能的政府
560	despite everything he says about unalienable rights?	尽管他说什么不可剥夺的权利?
561	Does he have a way out of it?	他有出路吗?
562	Who would speak here in defense of Locke or make sense,	谁会在这里为洛克辩护或者说有道理
563	find a way out of this predicament?	找到办法摆脱困境吗?
564	All right, go ahead.	好吧,继续。
565	I feel like there's a general distinction we've made between the right to life	我觉得我们一般都区分了生命权
566	that individuals possess and the fact that a government cannot take away	个人拥有和政府不能剥夺的事实
567	a single individual's right to life.	一个人的生命权。
568	I think if you look at conscription as the government picking out	我认为如果你把征兵看作是政府挑出来的
569	certain individuals to go fight in war,	一些个人去打仗,
570	then that would be a violation of their natural right to life.	这会侵犯他们的自然生命权
571	On the other hand, if you have conscription, let's say a lottery, for example,	另一方面,如果你有征兵, 让我们说一个彩票,例如,
572	then in that case I would view that as the population picking their representatives	这样的话,我就会认为,当人们挑选他们的代表时,
573	to defend them in the case of war.	在战争中保护他们
574	The idea being that since the whole population cannot go out there	这个想法是,由于整个人口不能去那里
575	to defend its own right to property,	维护自己的财产权,
576	it picks its own representatives through a process that's essentially random,	它选择自己的代表通过一个基本上是随机的过程,
577	and then these sort of elected representatives go out and fight	然后这些当选代表出去战斗
578	for the rights of the people.	为人民的权利。
579	It works just like an elected government, in my opinion.	我认为,这就像民选政府一样。
580	All right, so an elected government can conscript citizens to go out	好吧,这样民选政府可以征召公民出去
581	and defend the way of life, the community that makes the enjoyment of rights possible?	并捍卫生活方式,使享有权利成为可能的社区?
582	I think it can, because to me it seems that it's very similar	我想可以,因为对我来说,它似乎非常相似
583	to the process of electing representatives through legislature.	通过立法选举代表的过程。
584	Although here, it's as if the government is electing by conscription	虽然这里,但好像政府通过征兵选举
585	certain citizens to go die for the sake of the whole.	某些公民为了整个人而死
586	Is that consistent with respect for a natural right to liberty?	这是否与尊重自由的自然权利相一致?
587	Well, what I would say there is there's a distinction between picking out individuals	我想说的是挑个人是有区别的
588	and having a random choice of individuals.	和随机选择个人。
589	Between picking out, let me make sure, between picking out individuals.	在挑人之间,让我确定, 在挑人之间。
590	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
591	Gopal.	戈帕尔。
592	Gopal says there's a difference between picking out individuals to lay down their lives	Gopal说挑个人来放下生命是有区别的
593	and having a general law.	并拥有一般法律。
594	I think this is the answer Locke would give, actually, Gopal.	我认为这是洛克会给出的答案,其实,戈帕尔。
595	Locke is against arbitrary government.	洛克反对专制政府
596	He's against the arbitrary taking, the singling out of Bill Gates to finance the war in Iraq.	他反对任意夺取,独唱比尔·盖茨资助伊拉克战争.
597	He's against singling out a particular citizen or group of people to go off and fight.	他反对单独挑一个特定的公民或一群人去战斗.
598	But if there's a general law such that the government's choice,	但是,如果有这样的一般法律政府的选择,
599	the majority's action, is non-arbitrary,	多数人的行为是非任意的,
600	it doesn't really amount to a violation of people's basic rights.	这实际上并不等于侵犯人们的基本权利。
601	What does count as a violation is an arbitrary taking	何谓是任意夺权
602	because that would essentially say, not only to Bill Gates, but to everyone,	因为这基本上意味着, 不仅比尔盖茨, 并且每个人,
603	there is no rule of law, there is no institution of property,	没有法治没有财产制度
604	because at the whim of the king, or for that matter of the parliament,	因为国王或议会的意念
605	we can name you or you to give up your property or to give up your life.	我们可以给你起名让你放弃你的财产或者放弃你的生命
606	But so long as there is a non-arbitrary rule of law, then it's permissible.	但是只要有非任意的法治,那么是允许的.
607	Now you may say this doesn't amount to a very limited government,	现在你可以说这不等于一个非常有限的政府,
608	and the libertarian may complain that Locke is not such a terrific ally after all.	自由主义者可能会抱怨洛克毕竟不是一个伟大的盟友
609	The libertarian has two grounds for disappointment in Locke.	自由主义者在洛克有两个失望的理由.
610	First, that the rights are unalienable and therefore I don't really own myself after all.	第一,权利不可剥夺,因此我毕竟并不真正拥有自己。
611	I can't dispose of my life or my liberty or my property in a way that violates my rights.	我不能以侵犯我权利的方式处置我的生命自由和财产
612	That's disappointment number one.	这是失望的第一。
613	Disappointment number two, once there is a legitimate government based on consent,	失望的第二, 一旦有一个合法政府基于同意,
614	the only limits for Locke are limits on arbitrary takings of life or of liberty or of property.	对洛克的唯一限制是对任意夺取生命、自由或财产的限制。
615	But if the majority decides, if the majority promulgates a generally applicable law,	但如果多数人决定,如果多数人颁布普遍适用的法律,
616	and if it votes duly according to fair procedures, then there is no violation,	如果它按照公正程序进行投票,那么不存在违反规定的情况,
617	whether it's a system of taxation or a system of conscription.	无论是税收制度还是征兵制度。
618	So it's clear that Locke is worried about the absolute arbitrary power of kings.	因此很明显,洛克担心的是国王的绝对专断权力.
619	But it's also true, and here's the darker side of Locke,	但这也是事实洛克的黑暗面
620	that this great theorist of consent came up with a theory of private property that didn't require consent.	这个伟大的同意论者提出了私人财产的理论不需要同意
621	That may, and this goes back to the point Rochelle made last time,	也许,这可以追溯到罗谢尔上次说的
622	may have had something to do with Locke's second concern, which was America.	可能和洛克的第二个关切有关也就是美国
623	You remember when he talks about the state of nature, he's not talking about an imaginary place.	你还记得当他谈到自然状态时他不是在说一个想象中的地方
624	In the beginning he says all the world was America.	一开始他说全世界都是美国
625	And what was going on in America?	美国发生了什么?
626	The settlers were enclosing land and engaged in wars with the Native Americans.	定居者包围土地,与美洲原住民开战。
627	Locke, who was an administrator of one of the colonies,	洛克曾是其中一个殖民地的管理者
628	may have been as interested in providing a justification for private property	可能同样有兴趣为私人财产提供理由
629	through enclosure without consent, through enclosure and cultivation,	未经同意,通过封锁和种植,
630	as he was with developing a theory of government based on consent	因为当时他正在发展一种基于同意的政府理论
631	that would rein in kings and arbitrary rulers.	统治着国王和统治者
632	The question we're left with, the fundamental question we still haven't answered is,	我们剩下的问题根本的问题我们还没有回答
633	what then becomes of consent?	同意会怎样?
634	What work can it do?	还能做什么?
635	What is its moral force?	它的道德力量是什么?
636	What are the limits of consent?	同意的限制是什么?
637	Consent matters not only for governments but also for markets.	同意不仅对政府而且对市场都很重要。
638	And beginning next time we're going to take up questions of the limits of consent	从下次开始,我们讨论同意的限度问题
639	in the buying and selling of goods.	在买卖商品。
640	Don't miss the chance to interact online with other viewers of Justice.	不要错过与司法界其他观众在线互动的机会.
641	Join the conversation. Take up hot quiz.	加入对话。参加热门测验
642	Watch lectures you've missed and learn a lot more.	看着你错过的讲座学到更多
643	请访问justiceharvard.org. 谓之正法.
644	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
645	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

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P6 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p06 5. 5.公平的起点是什么 (P6)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p06 5. 5.公平的起点是什么 (P6)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 55:07

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时间	英文	中文
0:00	Funding for this program is provided by, additional funding provided by...	本方案的资金由.提供,额外资金由.
0:29	Today, we turn to the question of distributive justice.	今天,我们谈谈分配司法问题。
0:36	How should income and wealth and power and opportunities be distributed according to what principles?	收入、财富、权力和机会如何按照什么原则分配?
0:44	John Rawls offers a detailed answer to that question.	约翰·罗尔斯详细回答了这个问题。
0:48	And we're going to examine and assess his answer to that question today.	我们今天将审查并评估他对该问题的回答。
0:53	We put ourselves in a position to do so last time by trying to make sense of why he thinks	我们让自己能够这样做上次,通过试图理解为什么他认为
1:06	that principles of justice are best derived from a hypothetical contract.	司法原则最好来自假设的合同。
1:16	And what matters is that the hypothetical contract be carried out in an original position of equality	重要的是假想的合同要以平等的地位执行
1:24	behind what Rawls calls the veil of ignorance.	罗尔斯所说的无知面纱背后
1:29	So that much is clear.	因此,这一点是明确的。

展开字幕全文（832 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by, additional funding provided by...	本方案的资金由.提供,额外资金由.
2	Today, we turn to the question of distributive justice.	今天,我们谈谈分配司法问题。
3	How should income and wealth and power and opportunities be distributed according to what principles?	收入、财富、权力和机会如何按照什么原则分配?
4	John Rawls offers a detailed answer to that question.	约翰·罗尔斯详细回答了这个问题。
5	And we're going to examine and assess his answer to that question today.	我们今天将审查并评估他对该问题的回答。
6	We put ourselves in a position to do so last time by trying to make sense of why he thinks	我们让自己能够这样做上次,通过试图理解为什么他认为
7	that principles of justice are best derived from a hypothetical contract.	司法原则最好来自假设的合同。
8	And what matters is that the hypothetical contract be carried out in an original position of equality	重要的是假想的合同要以平等的地位执行
9	behind what Rawls calls the veil of ignorance.	罗尔斯所说的无知面纱背后
10	So that much is clear.	因此,这一点是明确的。
11	Alright, then let's turn to the principles that Rawls says would be chosen behind the veil of ignorance.	好吧,那我们来谈谈 Rawls说会被选在无知的面纱后面的原则
12	First, he considers some of the major alternatives.	首先,他考虑了一些主要的替代办法。
13	What about utilitarianism?	功利主义呢?
14	Would the people in the original position choose to govern their collective lives?	处于原位的人民会选择管理他们的集体生活吗?
15	Utilitarian principles, the greatest code for the greatest number.	尤利塔利主义原则, 最大的代码为最多。
16	No, they wouldn't, Rawls says.	不,他们不会,罗尔斯说。
17	And the reason is that behind the veil of ignorance, everyone knows that once the veil goes up	原因是在愚昧的面纱背后每个人都知道一旦面纱升起
18	and real life begins, we will each want to be respected with dignity.	我们每个人都希望有尊严地得到尊重。
19	Even if we turn out to be a member of a minority, we don't want to be oppressed.	即使我们变成少数派的一员,我们也不想被压迫.
20	And so we would agree to reject utilitarianism and instead to adopt as our first principle	所以我们同意拒绝功利主义代之以第一原则
21	equal basic liberties, fundamental rights to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly,	平等的基本自由、言论自由的基本权利、集会自由、
22	religious liberty, freedom of conscience and the like.	宗教自由、良心自由等等。
23	We wouldn't want to take the chance that we would wind up as members of an oppressed or despised minority	我们不想冒这个险冒着被压迫或被鄙视的少数的下场
24	with the majority tyrannizing over us.	多数人强暴我们
25	And so Rawls says utilitarianism would be rejected.	所以罗尔斯说功利主义会被拒绝.
26	Utilitarianism makes the mistake, Rawls writes, of forgetting or at least not taking seriously	罗尔斯写道,乌蒂利亚主义犯了一个错误,那就是忘记或至少不认真对待
27	the distinction between persons.	人与人之间的区别。
28	And in the original position behind the veil of ignorance, we would recognize that	在无知的面纱背后的最初位置,我们会认识到
29	and reject utilitarianism.	并拒绝功利主义。
30	We wouldn't trade off our fundamental rights and liberties for any economic advantages.	我们不会为了任何经济利益而牺牲我们的基本权利和自由。
31	That's the first principle.	这是第一个原则。
32	Second principle has to do with social and economic inequalities.	第二项原则涉及社会和经济不平等。
33	What would we agree to?	我们同意什么?
34	Remember, we don't know whether we're going to wind up being rich or poor, healthy or unhealthy.	记住,我们不知道我们到底要成为富人还是穷人,健康还是不健康.
35	We don't know what kind of family we're going to come from,	我们不知道我们来自什么样的家庭
36	whether we're going to inherit millions or whether we will come from an impoverished family.	我们是否要继承成百上千万或者我们将来自一个贫穷的家庭。
37	So we might at first thought say, well, let's require an equal distribution of income and wealth	因此,我们一开始可能想说, 好了,让我们要求收入和财富的平等分配
38	just to be on the safe side.	就是为了安全
39	Then we would realize that we could do better than that, even if we're unlucky and wind up at the bottom.	然后我们会意识到,我们可以做得更好, 即使我们运气不好, 并最终在底部。
40	We could do better if we agree to a qualified principle of equality.	如果我们同意一项合格的平等原则,我们可以做得更好。
41	Rawls calls it the difference principle.	罗尔斯称之为区别原则.
42	It's a principle that says only those social and economic inequalities will be permitted	这是一条原则,规定只有这些社会和经济不平等才会被允许
43	that work to the benefit of the least well-off.	给最不富裕的人带来好处
44	So we wouldn't reject all inequality of income and wealth.	所以我们不会拒绝收入和财富的所有不平等。
45	We would allow some, but the test would be, do they work to the benefit of everyone, including those,	我们将允许一些,但考验是,它们是否有利于所有人,包括那些,
46	or as he specifies the principle, especially those at the bottom.	或如他规定的原则, 特别是那些在底部。
47	Only those inequalities would be accepted behind the veil of ignorance.	只有这些不平等才能被接受在无知的面纱背后。
48	And so Rawls argues, only those inequalities that work to the benefit of the least well-off are just.	所以Rawls认为,只有那些有利于最不富裕的人的不平等才是公正的。
49	We talked about the examples of Michael Jordan making $31 million a year,	我们谈到了迈克尔・乔丹每年赚3100万美元的例子
50	of Bill Gates having a fortune in the tens of billions.	比尔·盖茨拥有数百亿的财富
51	Would those inequalities be permitted under the difference principle?	差别原则是否允许这些不平等?
52	Only if they were part of a system, those wage differentials,	除非他们属于一个制度,这些工资差别,
53	that actually work to the advantage of the least well-off.	这实际上有利于最不富裕的人。
54	Well, what would that system be?	那这个系统会是什么?
55	Maybe it turns out that as a practical matter, you have to provide incentives	也许事实证明,作为一个实际问题, 你必须提供激励
56	to attract the right people to certain jobs.	吸引合适的人去工作
57	And when you do, having those people in those jobs will actually help those at the bottom.	当你这样做的时候, 那些人在那些工作将会帮助那些在底层的人。
58	Strictly speaking, Rawls' argument for the difference principle	严格地说,Rawls主张区别原则
59	is that it would be chosen behind the veil of ignorance.	这是在无知的面纱后面选择的。
60	Let me hear what you think about Rawls' claim that these two principles would be chosen behind the veil of ignorance.	让我听听你对Rawls的说法的看法,即这两项原则会被选择在无知的面纱后面.
61	Is there anyone who disagrees that they would be chosen?	有谁不同意选他们吗?
62	All right, let's start up in the balcony, if that's all right. Go ahead.	好吧,让我们开始在阳台上,如果可以。来吧。
63	Okay, your argument depends upon us believing that we would argue and set policy or justice from a bottom,	好吧,你的论点取决于我们相信我们会争论和制定政策或正义从底部,
64	for the disadvantaged, and I just don't see from a proof standpoint where we've proven that. Why not the top?	我无法从证据的角度看出我们已经证明了这一点为什么不是顶部?
65	Right, and what's your name?	对,你叫什么名字?
66	Mike.	迈克
67	Mike, all right, good question.	迈克,好的,问得好
68	Put yourself behind the veil of ignorance, enter into the thought experiment.	把自己放在无知的面纱后面,进入思想实验.
69	What principles would you choose?	你会选择什么原则?
70	How would you think it through?	你怎么想出来的?
71	Well, I would say things like even Harvard's existence is an example of preaching toward the top,	我想说,即使是哈佛大学的存在也是向上传教的例子
72	because Harvard takes the top academics, and I didn't know when I was born how smart I would be,	因为哈佛学得最好的学者, 我不知道当我出生时,我会有多聪明,
73	but I worked my life to get to a place of this caliber.	但我毕生都是为了找到这个口径的地方
74	Now, if you'd said Harvard's going to randomly take 1,600 people of absolutely no qualification,	如果你说哈佛会随机抽取 1600个人绝对没有资格
75	we'd all be saying, well, there's not much to work for.	我们都会说,嗯,没有什么可以工作的。
76	And so what principle would you choose?	那你选择什么原则?
77	In that situation, I would say a merit-based one,	在这种情况下,我要说,一个择优录取的人,
78	one where I don't necessarily know what I have, but I'd rather have a system that rewards me based on my efforts.	一种我不一定知道我有什么但我宁愿有一个系统奖励我根据我的努力。
79	So you, Mike, behind the veil of ignorance, would choose a merit-based system	所以你,迈克,在无知的面纱背后, 会选择一个择优制度
80	where people are rewarded according to their efforts.	在那里,人们将因自己的努力而获得报酬。
81	All right, fair enough. What would you say? Go ahead.	好吧,公平点你会说什么? 来吧。
82	My question is if the merit-based argument is based on when everyone is at a level of equality,	我的问题是,当每个人都处于平等水平时,是否基于择优辩论,
83	where from that position you're rewarded to where you get,	从那个位置你得到的回报,
84	or is it regardless of what advantages you may have when you began your education to get where you are here?	还是不管你开始接受教育后会有什么好处?
85	I think the question you're asking is saying, you know,	我想你问的问题是,你知道,
86	if you want to look at whatever utilitarianism policy it is, do we want to maximize world wealth?	如果你想看看它是什么功利主义政策,我们是否想要最大限度地增加世界财富?
87	And I think a system that rewards merit is the one that we've pretty much all established is what is best for all of us,	我认为奖励功绩的制度是我们大家共同建立的制度
88	despite the fact that some of us may be in the second percentile and some may be in the 98th percentile.	尽管事实上我们有些人可能处于第二百分位,有些人可能处于第九百分位。
89	And at the end of the day, it lifts that lowest base level, a community that rewards effort as opposed to innate differences.	而在最后,它提升了最低的基数水平,一个奖励努力而不是内在差异的社区.
90	I don't understand how you're rewarding someone's efforts who clearly has had,	我不明白你是如何奖励某人的努力谁显然已经,
91	not you, but maybe myself, advantages throughout to get where I am here.	而不是你,但也许我自己, 优势贯穿于我在这里。
92	I mean, I can't say that somebody else who maybe worked as hard as I did	我的意思是,我不能说别人谁也许工作像我一样辛苦
93	would have had the same opportunity to come to a school like this.	也会有同样的机会来这样的学校。
94	All right, let's look at that point. What's your name?	好吧,让我们来看看这一点。你叫什么来着?
95	Kate.	凯特
96	Kate, you suspect that the ability to get into top schools	凯特,你怀疑进入顶尖学校的能力
97	may largely depend on coming from an affluent family,	可能很大程度上取决于来自富裕的家庭,
98	having a favorable family background, social, cultural, economic advantages and so on?	拥有有利的家庭背景、社会、文化、经济优势等等?
99	I mean, economic, but yes, social, cultural, all of those advantages for sure.	我的意思是,经济,但是是的, 社会,文化,所有这些优势是肯定的。
100	Someone did a study of the 146 selective colleges and universities in the United States.	有人对美国146所选择性的学院和大学进行了研究.
101	And they looked at the students in those colleges and universities	他们看着那些大专院校的学生
102	to try to find out what their economic background was.	试图找出他们的经济背景。
103	What percentage do you think come from the bottom quarter of the income scale?	你认为收入表的下季度会占多少百分比?
104	You know what the figure is?	你知道是什么吗?
105	Only 3% of students at the most selective colleges and universities come from poor backgrounds.	在最有选择的学院和大学中,只有3%的学生来自贫困背景。
106	Over 70% come from affluent families.	70%以上来自富裕家庭。
107	Let's go one step further then and try to address Mike's challenge.	我们再走一步试着解决迈克的挑战
108	Rawls actually has two arguments, not one, in favor of his principles of justice	罗尔斯实际上有两个论点而不是一个支持他的正义原则
109	and in particular of the difference principle.	特别是区别原则。
110	One argument is the official argument, what would be chosen behind the veil of ignorance.	一个论点是官方的论点,即无知面纱背后会选择什么。
111	Some people challenge that argument saying maybe people would want to take their chances.	有些人质疑这个论点,说也许人们会想冒这个险。
112	Maybe people would be gamblers behind the veil of ignorance hoping that they would wind up on top.	也许人们会赌博背后的无知面纱希望他们最终到顶端。
113	That's one challenge that has been put to Rawls.	这是对罗尔斯的挑战
114	But backing up the argument from the original position is a second argument.	但支持原立场的论点是第二个论点。
115	And that is a straightforwardly moral argument.	这是一个直接的道德论点。
116	And it goes like this.	它是这样的。
117	It says the distribution of income and wealth and opportunities	上面说收入、财富和机会的分配
118	should not be based on factors for which people can claim no credit.	不应基于人们不能要求信贷的因素。
119	It shouldn't be based on factors that are arbitrary from a moral point of view.	它不应该基于从道德角度来说武断的因素.
120	Rawls illustrates this by considering several rival theories of justice.	Rawls通过考虑几个相互竞争的司法理论来说明这一点。
121	He begins with the theory of justice that most everyone these days would reject.	他从大多数这些天来都会拒绝的正义理论开始.
122	A feudal aristocracy.	一个封建贵族
123	What's wrong with the allocation of life prospects in a feudal aristocracy?	在封建贵族统治下分配生活前景有什么问题?.
124	Rawls says, well, the thing that's obviously wrong about it	罗尔斯说,嗯,那显然是错误的
125	is that people's life prospects are determined by the accident of birth.	人的生活前景是由出生事故决定的。
126	Are you born to a noble family or to the family of peasants and serfs?	你是出身于贵族家庭还是农民和农奴家庭?
127	And that's it. You can't rise.	且道. 你不能站起来。
128	It's not your doing where you wind up or what opportunities you have.	这不是你做什么在那里你结束了或者你有什么机会。
129	But that's arbitrary from a moral point of view.	但从道德角度来看,这是武断的.
130	And so that objection to a feudal aristocracy leads,	因此,反对封建贵族统治,
131	and historically has led people to say, careers should be open to talents.	并且从历史上看,人们会说,事业应该向人才开放。
132	There should be formal equality of opportunity.	应有形式上的机会平等。
133	Regardless of the accident of birth, every person should be free to strive,	无论发生什么意外,每个人都应自由地努力,
134	to work, to apply for any job in the society.	工作,申请任何社会工作。
135	And then if you open up jobs and you allow people to apply	如果你打开工作允许人们申请
136	and to work as hard as they can, then the results are just.	并尽可能努力工作,那么结果就是公正。
137	So it's more or less the libertarian system that we've discussed in earlier weeks.	因此,这或多或少是我们前几周讨论过的百合制度.
138	What does Rawls think about this? He says it's an improvement.	罗尔斯对此有什么看法? 他说这是一个进步。
139	It's an improvement because it doesn't take as fixed the accident of birth.	这是一种改进,因为它并不认为是固定了出生的意外.
140	But even with formal equality of opportunity,	但即使形式上的机会平等,
141	the libertarian conception doesn't extend its insight far enough.	自由主义的观念不够深入
142	Because if you let everybody run the race, everybody can enter the race,	因为如果你让每个人跑比赛,每个人都可以进入比赛,
143	but some people start at different starting points.	但有些人从不同的起点开始
144	That race isn't going to be fair.	那场比赛不公平
145	Intuitively, he says, the most obvious injustice of this system	他直觉地说,这个制度最明显的不公正
146	is that it permits distributive shares to be improperly influenced	它允许分配股票受到不当的影响
147	by factors arbitrary from a moral point of view,	从道德观点来看,
148	such as whether you've got a good education or not,	比如你是否受过良好教育
149	whether you grew up in a family that supported you and developed in you	你是否成长在一个支持你并在你成长的家庭
150	a work ethic and gave you the opportunities.	工作道德,给你机会。
151	So that suggests moving to a system of fair equality of opportunity.	因此,这意味着向公平平等机会制度迈进。
152	And that's really the system that Mike was advocating earlier on,	而这正是迈克之前倡导的系统,
153	what we might call a merit-based system, a meritocratic system.	我们可能称之为择优制,择优制。
154	In a fair meritocracy, the society sets up institutions	在一个公平的精英管理中,社会建立了机构
155	to bring everyone to the same starting point before the race begins.	在比赛开始前把大家带到同一个起点
156	Equal educational opportunities.	平等教育机会。
157	Head start programs, for example.	例如头部启动程序.
158	Support for schools in impoverished neighborhoods.	支持贫困街区办学.
159	So that everyone, regardless of their family background,	所以,每个人,不管他们的家庭背景,
160	has a genuinely fair opportunity.	拥有真正公平的机会。
161	Everyone starts from the same starting line.	每个人都从同一个起点开始。
162	Well, what does Rawls think about the meritocratic system?	Rawls对功勋系统有什么看法?
163	Even that, he says, doesn't go far enough in remedying or addressing	即便如此,他说,在补救或解决上还不够远
164	the moral arbitrariness of the natural lottery.	自然彩票的道德专断
165	Because if you bring everyone to the same starting point	因为如果你把每个人都带到同一个起点
166	and begin the race, who's going to win the race?	开始比赛,谁能赢得比赛?
167	Who would win, to use the runners example?	谁会赢,用跑者的例子?
168	The fastest runners would win.	最快的跑者会赢
169	But is it their doing that they happen to be blessed	但他们的作为恰好使他们得到祝福
170	with the athletic prowess to run fast?	跑得快吗?
171	So Rawls says, even the principle of meritocracy,	所以罗尔斯说,即使是功勋原则,
172	where you bring everyone to the same starting point,	在那里,你带大家在同一起点,
173	may eliminate the influence of social contingencies and upbringing,	消除社会突发事件和教养的影响,
174	but it still permits the distribution of wealth and income	但是它仍然允许财富和收入的分配
175	to be determined by the natural distribution of abilities and talents.	由能力和才能的自然分布决定。
176	And so he thinks that the principle of eliminating morally arbitrary influences	所以他认为消除道德武断影响的原则
177	and the distribution of income and wealth requires going beyond	收入和财富的分配需要超越
178	what Mike favors, the meritocratic system.	迈克喜欢什么,优异的系统。
179	Now, how do you go beyond?	现在,你如何超越?
180	If you bring everyone to the same starting point	如果你把大家带到同一个起点
181	and you're still bothered by the fact that some are fast runners	你仍然对有些人跑得很快
182	and some are not fast runners, what can you do?	有些不是跑得快的你能怎么办?
183	Well, some critics of a more egalitarian conception	嗯,一些批评更平等的概念
184	say the only thing you can do is handicap the fast runners,	说你唯一能做的就是阻碍快速跑者
185	make them wear lead shoes, but who wants to do that?	让他们穿铅鞋但谁想这么做?
186	That would defeat the whole point of running the race.	这会击败比赛的全局
187	But Rawls says you don't have to have a kind of leveling equality	但罗尔斯说,你不必有一种平平平等
188	if you want to go beyond a meritocratic conception.	如果你想超越一个优异的概念。
189	You permit, you even encourage those who may be gifted	你允许,你甚至鼓励那些有天赋的人
190	to exercise their talents, but what you do is you change the terms	来锻炼他们的才华但你所做的就是改变条件
191	on which people are entitled to the fruits of the exercise of those talents.	人们在其中有权享有这些才华的成果。
192	And that really is what the difference principle is.	这才是区别原则所在。
193	You establish a principle that says people may benefit from their good fortune,	你确立了一条原则说人们可以从他们的好运气中获益,
194	from their luck in the genetic lottery,	因为他们在遗传性彩票上的运气
195	but only on terms that work to the advantage of the least well-off.	但只能从有利于最不富裕的人的角度出发
196	And so, for example, Michael Jordan can make $31 million,	例如迈克尔·乔丹能赚到3100万美元
197	but only under a system that taxes away a chunk of that	但只有在一个制度下, 税收去掉其中的一小部分
198	to help those who lack the basketball skills that he's blessed with.	帮助那些缺乏篮球技巧的人他的祝福。
199	Likewise, Bill Gates, he can make his billions,	同样,比尔·盖茨, 他可以赚他的亿万,
200	but he can't think that he somehow morally deserves those billions.	但他不能认为他在某种程度上在道德上应该得到那些亿万。
201	Those who have been favored by nature may gain from their good fortune,	被自然所宠爱者,得享其福;
202	but only on terms that improve the situation of those who have lost out.	但只能改善那些输家的处境
203	That's the difference principle.	这就是区别原则。
204	And it's an argument from moral arbitrariness.	而从道德专断论辩.
205	Rawls claims that if you're bothered by basing distributive shares	Rawls声称,如果你被基于分配股份的困扰
206	on factors arbitrary from a moral point of view,	从道德观点来看,
207	you don't just reject a feudal aristocracy for a free market.	你不只是拒绝一个封建贵族自由市场。
208	You don't even rest content with a meritocratic system	你甚至不满足于功勋制度
209	that brings everyone to the same starting point.	这让每个人都来到同一个起点。
210	You set up a system where everyone, including those at the bottom,	你建立了一个系统每个人,包括那些在底层,
211	benefit from the exercise of the talents held by those who happen to be lucky.	受益于那些碰巧幸运的人发挥的才能。
212	What do you think? Is that persuasive?	你觉得呢? 有说服力吗?
213	Who finds that argument unpersuasive, the argument from moral arbitrariness?	谁认为这一论点没有说服力,就是道德武断的论点?
214	Yes?	是吗?
215	I think that in the egalitarian proposition, the more talented people,	我认为,在平等的命题, 更有才华的人,
216	I think it's very optimistic to think that they would still work really hard	我觉得他们还是很努力的很乐观
217	even if they knew that part of what they made would be given away.	即使他们知道自己所造物的一部分,必定要被分舍。
218	So I think that the only way for the more talented people to exercise their talents	所以我觉得只有这样才有才华的人才能发挥才华
219	to the best of their ability is in the meritocracy.	尽他们的最大能力是在功绩管理。
220	And in a meritocracy, what's your name?	在精英统治中你叫什么名字?
221	Kate.	凯特
222	Kate, does it bother you, and Mike, does it bother you,	凯特,你烦不烦,麦克,你烦不烦?
223	that in a meritocratic system, even with fair equality of opportunity,	在一个优异的制度中,即使有公平的机会平等,
224	people get ahead, people get rewards that they don't deserve	人们先行一步,得到他们不配得到的奖励
225	simply because they happen to be naturally gifted?	就因为他们天生有天赋?
226	What about that?	怎么样?
227	I think that it is arbitrary, and obviously it's arbitrary,	我认为这是武断的很明显是武断的
228	but I think that correcting for it would be detrimental.	但我认为纠正会有害的
229	Because it would reduce incentives, is that why?	因为这样会减少激励,这就是为什么?
230	It would reduce incentives, yeah.	这会减少激励,是的。
231	Mike, what do you say?	迈克,怎么样?
232	We're all sitting in this room, and we have undeserved glory of some sorts,	我们都坐在这间屋子里我们拥有一些不应有的荣耀
233	that you should not be satisfied with the process of your life	你不应该满足你的生活过程
234	because you have not created any of this.	因为你没有创造任何这些。
235	And I think from a standpoint of not just this room, us being upset,	我从不光是这间屋子的角度来看我们很不高兴
236	but from a societal standpoint, we should have some kind of a gut reaction	但从社会角度看,我们应该有某种直觉的反应
237	to that feeling that the guy who runs the race, he actually harms us as opposed to	那种感觉跑车的人, 他实际上伤害我们而不是
238	maybe makes me run that last 10 yards faster,	可能让我跑得更快
239	and that makes the guy behind me run 10 yards faster,	这让我后面的人跑得更快十码
240	and the guy behind him 10 yards faster.	和他后面的人更快10码。
241	All right, so Mike, let me ask you, you talked about effort before, effort.	好吧,所以迈克,让我问你, 你谈到过努力,努力。
242	Do you think when people work hard to get ahead and succeed,	你认为当人们努力工作取得领先和成功,
243	that they deserve the rewards that go with effort?	难道他们要受报应吗?
244	Isn't that the idea behind your defense?	这不是你辩护背后的想法吗?
245	I mean, of course, bring Michael Jordan here, I'm sure you can get him,	我的意思是,当然,带迈克尔乔丹在这里, 我相信你可以得到他,
246	and have him come and defend himself about why he makes $31 million.	让他来为自己辩护为什么他赚了3100万美元
247	And I think what you're going to realize is his life was a very, very tough one	我想你会意识到他的生活非常非常艰难
248	to get to the top and that we are basically being the majority oppressing the minority	我们基本上都是压迫少数的多数人
249	in a different light.	以不同的光线。
250	It's very easy to pick on him, very easy.	这很容易挑他,非常容易。
251	All right, effort.	好吧努力点
252	You know what?	你知道吗?
253	You've persuaded a lot of people.	你说服了很多人
254	Effort.	奋发精进.
255	You know what Raul's answer to that is?	你知道劳尔的答案是什么吗?
256	Even the effort that some people expend, conscientious striving, the work ethic,	甚至有些人付出的努力, 认真努力,工作道德,
257	even effort, depends a lot on fortunate family circumstances	哪怕是努力也取决于幸运的家庭环境
258	for which you, we, can claim no credit.	你,我们,不能要求任何信用。
259	Now, let's do the test.	现在,让我们做测试。
260	Let's do a test here.	我们来测试一下
261	Never mind economic class, those differences are very significant.	不论经济等级,这些差异都非常重要。
262	Put those aside.	把这些放在一边。
263	Psychologists say that birth order makes a lot of difference	心理学家说,出生顺序有很多不同
264	in work ethic striving effort.	在职业道德努力。
265	How many here?	这里有多少人?
266	Raise your hand, those of you here who are first in birth order.	举起你的手,你们这些先出生的人
267	I am too, by the way.	顺便说一句,我也是
268	Mike, I noticed you raised your hand.	迈克,我注意到你举起手来了
269	If the case for the meritocratic conception is that effort should be rewarded,	如果功绩主义的概念是,应该奖励这种努力,
270	doesn't Raul's have a point that even effort striving work ethic is largely shaped,	劳尔没有一点意义,即使努力工作道德在很大程度上是成形的,
271	even by birth order?	即使是根据出生令?
272	Is it your doing, Mike, is it your doing that you were first in birth order?	是你做的,迈克, 是你做的, 你是第一个出生顺序?
273	Then why, Raul says, of course not.	那为什么,劳尔说,当然不是。
274	So why should income and wealth and opportunities in life	因此,为什么收入和财富以及生活中的机会
275	be based on factors arbitrary from a moral point of view?	从道德角度来看,是否基于任意因素?
276	That's a challenge that he puts to market societies,	这是他对市场社会的挑战,
277	but also to those of us at places like this.	也是为了我们这些人
278	A question to think about for next time.	下次想个问题
279	A justice of the United States Supreme Court.	美国最高法院法官.
280	What do they make?	他们做的是什么?
281	It's just under $200,000.	刚刚不到二十万
282	But there's another judge who makes a lot more than Sandra Day O'Connor.	但有另一位法官比桑德拉·戴·奥康纳赚得更多.
283	You know who it is?	你知道是谁吗?
284	Judge Judy, how did you know that?	朱迪法官你怎么知道这个的?
285	Judge Judy, you know how much she makes?	Judy法官你知道她赚了多少钱吗?
286	$25 million.	2500万美元。
287	Now, is that just?	是这样吗?
288	Is it fair?	公平吗?
289	We ended last time with that remarkable poll.	上次的民意调查结束了
290	Do you remember the poll about birth order?	你还记得关于出生令的民意调查吗?
291	What percentage of people in this room raised their hands?	这个房间里有多少人举起手来?
292	Was it to say that they were the first born?	是说他们是第一个出生的吗?
293	75, 80 percent?	75,80%吗?
294	And what was the significance of that	这有什么意义?
295	if you're thinking about these theories of distributive justice?	如果你在考虑这些分配正义的理论?
296	Remember, we were discussing	记住,我们在讨论
297	three different theories of distributive justice.	分配正义的三种不同理论.
298	Three different ways of answering the question,	有三种不同的回答方式,
299	how should income and wealth and opportunities	收入、财富和机会如何
300	and the good things in life be distributed?	生活中的佳物,是分配的。
301	And so far we've looked at the libertarian answer	目前为止,我们已经看自由主义的答案
302	that says the just system of distribution	这说明公正的分配系统
303	is a system of free exchange, of free market economy,	自由交换制度,自由市场经济,
304	against a background of formal equality,	在形式上平等的背景下,
305	which simply means that jobs and careers are open to anyone.	也就是说,工作和事业是向任何人开放的。
306	Rawls says this represents an improvement	罗尔斯说这是个进步
307	over aristocratic and caste systems	超越贵族和种姓制度
308	because everyone can compete for every job,	因为每个人都可以竞争每份工作,
309	careers open to talents.	职业向人才开放。
310	And beyond that, the just distribution	除此之外,公正的分配
311	is the one that results from free exchange,	是自由交换的结果,
312	voluntary transactions, no more, no less.	自愿交易,不再,也不再减少。
313	Then Rawls argues, if all you have is formal equality,	那么罗尔斯说,如果你只有形式上的平等,
314	jobs open to everyone,	向所有人开放的工作,
315	the result is not going to be fair.	结果是不公平的。
316	It will be biased in favor of those	将偏向于那些
317	who happen to be born to affluent families,	他们是富裕家庭的后裔,
318	who happen to have the benefit of good educational opportunities.	享受良好教育机会。
319	And that accident of birth is not a just basis	和这个意外的出生不只是根据
320	for distributing life chances.	分配生命的机会。
321	And so many people who notice this unfairness,	这么多人谁注意到这种不公平,
322	Rawls argues, are led to embrace	Rawls争吵,被引向拥抱
323	a system of fair equality of opportunity.	机会平等制度。
324	That leads to the meritocratic system,	这导致了功勋制度,
325	fair equality of opportunity.	机会平等。
326	But Rawls says, even if you bring everyone	但罗尔斯说,即使你带大家来
327	to the same starting point in the race,	在比赛的同一个起点,
328	what's going to happen?	会发生什么事?
329	Who's going to win?	谁会赢?
330	The fastest runners.	跑得最快的选手
331	So once you're troubled by basing distributive shares	所以一旦你被分配股困扰
332	on morally arbitrary contingencies,	道德上任意的意外事件,
333	you should, if you reason it through,	你应该,如果你解释它通过,
334	be carried all the way to what Rawls calls	被一路带到罗尔斯所说的
335	the democratic conception,	民主概念,
336	a more egalitarian conception of distributive justice	更平等的分配公正概念
337	that he defines by the difference principle.	他用不同的原则来定义
338	Now he doesn't say that the only way to remedy	现在他没有说唯一的补救方法
339	or to compensate for differences in natural talents and abilities	或补偿天赋和能力的差异;
340	is to have a kind of leveling equality,	这是一种平等,
341	a guaranteed equality of outcome.	保证结果平等。
342	But he does say,	但他确实说,
343	there's another way to deal with these contingencies.	还有另一种方法可以应付这些意外情况
344	People may gain, may benefit from their good fortune,	人或许得益,或许得福。
345	but only on terms that work to the advantage	但只能从有利条件出发
346	of the least well off.	最不富裕的人
347	And so we can test how this theory actually works	所以我们可以测试这个理论是如何实际运作的
348	by thinking about some pay differentials	考虑一些工资差异
349	that arise in our society.	我们社会上出现的一切
350	What does the average school teacher make	普通的老师能做什么?
351	in the United States, do you suppose?	在美国你觉得呢?
352	Roughly.	大约吧
353	It's a little more, forty, forty-two thousand.	稍加,,四万四千两.
354	What about David Letterman?	大卫·莱特曼呢?
355	How much do you think David Letterman makes?	你觉得大卫·莱特曼能赚多少钱?
356	More than a school teacher?	不只是老师?
357	Thirty-one million dollars	3100万美元
358	David Letterman. Is that fair?	大卫·莱特曼公平吗?
359	That David Letterman makes that much more than a school teacher.	大卫·莱特曼做的不仅仅是一个老师
360	Well, Rawls's answer would be,	罗尔斯的答案是
361	it depends whether the basic structure of society	取决于社会的基本结构
362	is designed in such a way	以这种方式设计
363	that Letterman's thirty-one million dollars is subject to taxation	莱特曼的三千一百万要缴税
364	so that some of those earnings	以便部分收入
365	are taken to work for the advantage	被带去工作为优势
366	of the least well off.	最不富裕的人
367	One other example of a pay differential.	另一个工资差别的例子。
368	A Justice of the United States Supreme Court.	美国最高法院法官。
369	What do they make?	他们做的是什么?
370	It's just under two hundred thousand dollars.	刚不到二十万美金
371	Here's Sandra Day O'Connor for example.	例如桑德拉·戴·奥康纳
372	There she is.	她来了
373	But there's another judge who makes a lot more	但还有一位法官赚得更多
374	than Sandra Day O'Connor.	比桑德拉・戴・奥康纳。
375	You know who it is?	你知道是谁吗?
376	Judge Judy. How did you know that?	法官朱迪。你怎么知道这个的?
377	You watch?	你看吗?
378	No, but you're right.	不,但你说得对。
379	Judge Judy. You know how much she makes?	法官朱迪。你知道她赚了多少钱吗?
380	There she is.	她来了
381	Twenty-five million dollars.	两千五百万
382	Now, is that just?	是这样吗?
383	Is it fair?	公平吗?
384	Well, the answer is,	嗯,答案是,我们...
385	it depends whether	这取决于是否
386	this is against a background system	这是一个背景系统
387	in line with the difference principle	根据差别原则
388	where those who come out on top in terms of	在那里,那些从上面出来的人,
389	income and wealth are taxed	收入和财富被征税
390	in a way that benefits the least well off	以对最不富裕的人有利的方式
391	members of society.	社会成员。
392	Now, we're going to come back	现在,我们要回来
393	to these wage differentials,	这些工资差别,
394	pay differentials,	工资差异,
395	between a real judge and a TV judge.	真正的法官与电视法官之间
396	The one Marcus watches all the time.	马库斯经常看的那个
397	What I want to do now	我现在想做的事
398	is return to these theories	返回这些理论
399	and to examine	并审查
400	the objections	反对
401	to Rawls's	到罗尔斯家
402	more egalitarian theory,	更平等的理论,
403	the difference principle.	区别原则。
404	There are at least three objections	至少有三个反对
405	to Rawls's difference principle.	到罗尔斯的区别原则。
406	One of them came up	其中一个来了
407	last time in the discussion,	上次在讨论中
408	and a number of you raised this worry.	你们中的一些人提出了这种忧虑。
409	What about incentives?	那奖励呢?
410	What about the risk if taxes reach	税额达到的风险如何?
411	70, 80, 90 percent marginal rate	70、80、90%的边际比率
412	that Michael Jordan won't play	迈克尔·乔丹不会演奏
413	basketball,	篮球
414	that David Letterman	那个大卫·莱特曼
415	won't do late night comedy,	不做深夜喜剧,
416	or that CEOs	或首席执行官
417	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}会进入其他的
418	line of work?	工作线?
419	Who among those who are defenders	谁是捍卫者?
420	of Rawls?	罗尔斯?
421	Who has an answer to this objection	谁有这个反对的答案
422	about the need for incentives?	需要鼓励吗?
423	Yes, go ahead.	说吧
424	Stand up.	站起来
425	Rawls's idea is that	罗尔斯的想法是
426	there should only be so much difference	只有这么多的区别
427	that it helps the least well off the most.	帮助最不富裕的人
428	If you're a CEO, then the least well off	如果你是CEO,那就最没有好处了
429	might not be able to watch late night TV	可能不能看深夜电视
430	or might not have a job because their CEO	或者可能没有工作因为他们的首席执行官
431	doesn't want to work.	不想工作。不想工作吗?
432	So you need to find the correct balance	所以你需要找到正确的平衡
433	where taxation still leaves enough incentive	税收仍然有足够的激励
434	for the least well off to benefit from the talents.	才能从中得益
435	Good, and what's your name? Tim.	好,你叫什么名字来着? 蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆
436	Tim. All right, so Tim is saying in effect	蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆好吧,蒂姆说实际上
437	that there is a need for incentives	需要鼓励措施
438	and for some adjustment in the tax rate	税率调整
439	to take account of incentives,	考虑到激励措施,
440	but Tim points out	但蒂姆指出
441	the standpoint from which	观点
442	the question of incentives needs to be considered	需要考虑的鼓励措施问题
443	is not the effect on the total size	不是对总大小的影响
444	of the economic pie,	经济馅饼,
445	but instead from the standpoint of the effect	但从效果的角度来看
446	on the well being of those at the bottom.	那是在下方的人的幸福。
447	Right? Good, thank you.	对吧? 很好谢谢
448	I think that is what Rawls would say.	我想罗尔斯会这么说
449	In fact, if you look in section 17	事实上,如果你看17节
450	where he describes	在他描述的地方
451	the difference principle,	区别原则,
452	he allows for incentives	他允许奖励
453	the naturally advantaged	自然优势
454	are not to gain	是不会得到的
455	merely because they are more gifted,	只是因为他们更有天赋,
456	but only to cover the cost of training and education	但只能支付培训和教育费用
457	and for using their endowments in ways that help	和利用其捐赠的方式
458	the less fortunate as well. So you can have incentives.	更幸运的所以,你可以有奖励。
459	You can adjust the tax rate	您可以调整税率
460	if taking too much from David Letterman	如果从大卫·莱特曼那里拿走太多钱
461	or from Michael Jordan or from Bill Gates	迈克尔・乔丹或比尔・盖茨
462	winds up actually hurting	最终会很痛
463	those at the bottom. That's the test.	这些在底部。这就是测试。
464	So incentives,	所以,激励,
465	that's not a decisive objection against Rawls'	那不是对罗尔斯的决定性反对
466	difference principle,	差别原则,
467	but there are two weightier, more difficult	但有两个更重,更难
468	objections.	反对。
469	One of them	其中一个
470	comes	来了
471	from defenders of	人权维护者送交的函件
472	a meritocratic conception.	一个优异的概念。
473	The argument that says, what about effort?	所谓努力的争论呢?
474	What about people working hard	那么,人们努力工作
475	having a right to what they earn	他们有权挣钱
476	because they deserved it? They've worked hard for it.	因为他们罪有应得? 他们为此付出了很大努力.
477	That's the objection	这就是反对
478	from effort and moral desert.	从努力和道德的沙漠。
479	Then there's another objection	还有另一个反对
480	that comes from	这是来自
481	libertarians	自由主义者
482	and this objection	和本反对
483	has to do with reasserting the idea	和重新提出这个想法有关
484	of self-ownership.	自我拥有。
485	Doesn't the difference	没有区别
486	principle, by treating	原则,通过处理
487	our natural talents and endowments as common assets,	我们的天赋和天赋作为共同资产,
488	doesn't that violate	这不违反
489	the idea that we own	我们的想法
490	ourselves? Now, let me	我们自己? 让我来
491	deal first	先处理
492	with the objection that comes from	与来自
493	the libertarian direction.	自由主义的方向。
494	Milton Friedman writes in his book	米尔顿·弗里德曼在他的书中写道:
495	Free to Choose, life is not fair.	自由选择,生活是不公平的。
496	And it's tempting to believe	并且它诱人相信
497	that government can rectify what nature	政府可以纠正什么性质
498	has spawned.	已经产卵。
499	But his answer is,	但他的答案是, ,
500	the only way to try to rectify that	唯一能纠正这种情况的方法
501	is to have a leveling equality of outcome.	实现结果的平等
502	Everyone finishing the race at the same point	大家都在同一个时间完成比赛
503	and that would be a disaster.	这将是一场灾难。
504	This is an easy	这很简单
505	argument to answer	要回答的参数
506	and Rawls addresses it	和罗尔斯处理它
507	in one of the most	在一个最
508	powerful passages, I think,	强大的通道,我认为,
509	of a theory of justice. It's in	一个正义的理论。进去了
510	section 17.	页:1
511	The natural distribution, and here he's talking about	自然分布,他在这里谈论
512	the natural distribution of talents and endowments,	天赋和天赋的自然分布,
513	is neither just nor unjust.	既不公正也不不公正。
514	Nor is it unjust that persons are born into society	人出生于社会也不是不公正的
515	at some particular position. These are simply natural facts.	在一个特殊的位置。这些只是自然的事实。
516	What is just and unjust is the way that institutions	正义和不公正的是机构的方式
517	deal with these facts.	处理这些事实。
518	That's his answer	这就是他的答案
519	to libertarian laissez-faire economists	自由放任经济学家
520	就像Milton Friedman说生活不公平
521	but get over it. Get over it	但要克服它。忘记它
522	and let's see if we can at least maximize	让我们看看我们能不能尽量
523	the benefits that flow from it.	从它得到的利益。
524	But the more powerful libertarian objection	但更强大的自由主义反对
525	to Rawls is not libertarian from the libertarian	到罗尔斯不是自由主义者从自由主义者
526	economists like Milton Friedman.	像米尔顿·弗里德曼这样的经济学家.
527	It's from the argument about self-ownership	这是关于自有的争论
528	developed as we saw	正如我们所看到的
529	in Nozick.	在诺兹克
530	And from that point of view	从这个角度看
531	yes, it might be a good thing	是的,这可能是一件好事
532	to create Head Start programs and public schools	创建 " 首创方案 " 和公立学校
533	so that everyone can go to a decent school	让每个人都能去一个体面的学校
534	and start the race at the same starting line.	并在同一条起点线开始比赛。
535	That might be good.	这可能是很好的。
536	If you tax people to create public schools	如果你向人们征税创建公立学校
537	if you tax people against their will	如果你违背人们的意愿而向他们征税
538	you coerce them.	你强迫他们。
539	It's a form of theft.	是一种盗窃形式.
540	If you take some of Letterman's 31 million	如果你拿一些莱特曼的3100万
541	tax it away to support public schools	向公立学校征税
542	against his will	违背他的意志
543	the state is really doing	国家真的在做
544	no better than stealing from him.	没有比偷他的东西更好的了。
545	It's coercion.	这是强迫。
546	And the reason is	原因是
547	we have to think of ourselves as owning	我们必须自以为是
548	our talents and endowments.	我们的才能和天赋
549	Because otherwise we're back to just using people	因为否则我们就会重新利用别人
550	and coercing people.	和强迫人们。
551	That's the libertarian reply.	这是自由主义者的回答。
552	What's Rawls' answer to that objection?	罗尔斯的答案是什么?
553	He doesn't address	他没有地址
554	the idea of self-ownership directly.	直接拥有的观念。
555	But the effect, the moral weight	但效果,道德的分量
556	of his argument for the difference principle is	他关于区别原则的论点是:
557	maybe we don't own ourselves	也许我们没有自我
558	in that thorough going sense after all.	毕竟是彻底的
559	Now, he says this doesn't mean	他说这并不意味着
560	that the state	国家
561	is an owner in me in the sense	从意义上说,我是一个主人
562	that it can simply commandeer my life.	它可以简单地支配我的生活。
563	Because remember the first principle	因为记住第一条原则
564	we would agree to behind the veil of ignorance	我们同意在无知的面纱后面
565	is the principle of equal basic liberties.	平等基本自由的原则。
566	Freedom of speech, religious liberty,	言论自由、宗教自由、
567	freedom of conscience and the like.	良心自由之类的
568	So the only respect	因此,唯一的尊重
569	in which the idea	其中的想法
570	of self-ownership must give way	必须让位给自己
571	comes when we're thinking about	当我们想到
572	whether I own myself	无论我自己
573	in the sense that	从这个意义上说,
574	I have a privileged claim	我有一个特权要求
575	on the benefits that come	带来的惠益
576	from the exercise of my talents	从发挥我的才能
577	in a market economy.	在市场经济中。
578	And Rawls says on reflection we don't.	罗尔斯在反射时说我们没有
579	We can defend rights.	我们可以捍卫权利。
580	We can respect the individual.	我们可以尊重个人
581	We can uphold human dignity	我们可以维护人的尊严
582	without embracing	不拥抱
583	the idea of self-possession.	自我占有的想法。
584	That in effect	这实际上
585	is his reply	这是他的答复
586	to the libertarian.	对自由主义者。
587	I want to turn now to his reply	我现在想谈谈他的答复
588	to the defender of a meritocratic conception	向德才主义概念的捍卫者
589	who invokes effort	他们是勤劳的,
590	as the basis of moral desert.	作为道德沙漠的基础
591	People who work hard to develop their talents	努力培养才能的人
592	deserve the benefits	应得利益
593	that come from the exercise of their talents.	这来自于他们的才能的锻炼。
594	Well we've already seen	我们已经看到了
595	the beginning of Rawls' answer to that question.	罗尔斯回答这个问题的开始
596	And it goes back to that poll	回到民意调查
597	we took about birth order.	我们拿了出生令。
598	His first answer is	他的第一个答案是
599	even the work ethic,	甚至职业道德,
600	even the willingness to strive conscientiously	甚至愿意认真努力
601	depends on all sorts of family circumstances	取决于各种家庭环境
602	and social and cultural contingencies	社会和文化紧急情况
603	for which we can claim no credit.	我们对此不主张任何信用。
604	You can't claim credit for the fact that	你不能因为
605	you, most of us, happen to be first in birth order	你,我们大多数人, 恰好是出生顺序第一
606	and that for some complex	而对于一些复杂
607	psychological and social reasons	心理和社会原因
608	that seems to be associated with striving,	这似乎与努力,
609	with achieving, with effort.	并努力地取得成就。
610	That's one answer.	这是一个答案。
611	There's a second answer.	答有二义.
612	Those of you who invoke effort,	你们这些人是努力的,
613	you don't really believe	你不会真的相信
614	that moral desert attaches to effort.	道德的沙漠与努力。
615	Take two construction workers.	带两个建筑工人
616	One is strong and can raise four walls in an hour	一个很强壮,一个小时就能升起四面墙
617	without even breaking a sweat.	连汗都弄不出来
618	And another construction worker is	另一个建筑工人是
619	small and scrawny.	小而细.
620	And has to spend three days	还要花三天时间
621	to do the same amount of work.	做同样多的工作。
622	No defender of meritocracy	没有德才主义的捍卫者
623	is going to look at the effort of that	将看一看...
624	weak and scrawny construction worker and say	体弱又瘦的建筑工人说
625	therefore he deserves to make more.	因此,他应该做更多。
626	So it isn't really effort.	所以这不是真正的努力。
627	This is the second reply to the meritocratic claim.	这是对权宜之计的第二次答复。
628	It isn't really effort	这不是真正的努力
629	that the defender of meritocracy	是功绩的捍卫者,
630	believes is the moral basis	相信道德基础
631	of distributive shares.	分配份额。
632	How much do you contribute?	你贡献多少?
633	But contribution takes us straight back	但贡献让我们直接回来
634	to our natural talents and abilities.	我们的天赋和能力
635	Not just effort.	不仅仅是努力
636	And it's not our doing how we came into the possession	这不是我们做什么我们是如何进入拥有
637	of those talents in the first place.	这些才华,首先。
638	All right, suppose you accepted these arguments.	好吧,假设你接受了这些论点。
639	That effort isn't everything.	并不是所有的努力
640	That contribution matters	贡献很重要
641	to the point of the meritocratic conception.	至功德观.
642	That effort even isn't	那个努力甚至不是
643	our own doing.	我们自己做的。
644	Does that mean	这是否意味着
645	the objection continues?	继续反对?
646	Does that mean that according to Rawls	这是否意味着,根据罗尔斯
647	moral desert has nothing to do	道德沙漠没什么可做的
648	with distributive justice?	与分配正义?
649	Well, yes.	对
650	Distributive justice is not about moral desert.	分配正义与道德沙漠无关.
651	Now here	现在
652	Rawls introduces an important	Rawls引入了一个重要的
653	and a tricky distinction.	和微妙的区别。
654	It's between moral desert on the one hand	这是在道德的沙漠之间
655	and entitlements to legitimate expectations	享受正当期望的权利
656	on the other.	在另一个。
657	What is the difference between moral deserts	道德的沙漠有什么区别
658	and entitlements?	权利?
659	Take a game of games.	玩游戏吧
660	A game of chance and a game of skill.	机会游戏和技能游戏.
661	Take a game of pure chance.	玩个纯粹的机会游戏
662	Say I play the Massachusetts State lottery.	说我玩马萨诸塞州彩票。
663	And my number comes up.	我的号码出来了
664	I'm entitled to my winnings.	我有权赢
665	But even though I'm entitled to my winnings	但即使我有权赢
666	there's no sense in which	没有什么意义
667	because it's just a game of luck	因为它只是一个运气游戏
668	no sense in which I morally deserve	我道德上不该有这种感觉
669	to win in the first place.	以赢得第一。
670	That's an entitlement.	这是权利。
671	Now contrast the lottery with a different kind of game.	现在把彩票和另一种游戏做对比
672	A game of skill.	技能游戏.
673	Now	现在
674	imagine the Boston Red Sox	想象一下波士顿红袜
675	winning the World Series.	赢得世界大赛。
676	When they win	当他们赢了
677	they're entitled to the trophy.	他们有权获得奖杯。
678	But it can be always asked	但总是可以问
679	of a game of skill	技能游戏
680	did they deserve to win?	他们应该赢吗?
681	It's always possible in principle to distinguish	原则上总是可以区分的
682	what someone's entitled to	一个人的权利
683	under the rules	根据议事规则
684	and whether they deserve to win in the first place.	以及他们是否应该先赢
685	That's an antecedent standard	这是以前的标准
686	moral desert.	道德的沙漠。
687	Now Rawls says	现在罗尔斯说
688	distributive justice is not a matter of moral desert	分配正义不是道德荒漠的问题
689	though it is a matter of entitlements	虽然这是一个权利问题
690	to legitimate expectations.	与正当的期望。
691	Here's where he explains it.	他在这里解释
692	A just scheme	一个公正的计划
693	answers to what men are entitled to.	回答男人的权利。
694	It satisfies their legitimate expectations	它满足了他们的合法期望
695	as founded upon social institutions.	以社会机构为基础。
696	But what they are entitled to	但是他们应该得到什么
697	is not proportional to	与
698	nor dependent on their intrinsic worth.	也不取决于它们的内在价值。
699	The principles of justice	司法原则
700	that regulate the basic structure	规范基本结构
701	do not mention moral desert	别提道德的沙漠
702	and there is no tendency for distributive shares	没有分配股的倾向
703	to correspond to it.	来对应它。
704	Why does Rawls make this distinction?	为什么罗尔斯会做出这种区分?
705	What morally is at stake?	道德上有什么利害关系?
706	One thing morally at stake	道德上有一点关系
707	is the whole question of effort that we've already discussed.	是我们讨论过的整个努力问题
708	But there's a second contingency	但还有第二个意外
709	a second source of moral arbitrariness	道德专断的第二个根源
710	that goes beyond the question	这超出了问题的范围
711	of whether it's to my credit that I have the talents	我是否有才华,这是否是我的功劳
712	that enable me to get ahead.	那样我才能领先
713	And that has to do with the contingency	这和意外有关
714	that I live in a society	我生活在一个社会
715	that happens to prize my talents.	这恰好是奖励我的才能。
716	The fact	其实
717	that David Letterman	那个大卫·莱特曼
718	lives in a society that puts a great premium	生活在一个充满爱心的社会
719	puts a great value	很有价值
720	on a certain type of smirky joke	某类滑稽笑话
721	that's not his doing	这不是他做的
722	that happens to live in such a society.	它恰好生活在这样一个社会。
723	But this is a second contingency.	但这是第二个意外
724	This isn't something that we can claim credit for.	这不是我们可以要求的功劳。
725	Even if I had sole unproblematic claim	即使我只有一件没有问题的事
726	to my talents and to my effort	为了我的才能和努力
727	it would still be the case	现在还是这样
728	that the benefits I get from exercising those talents	我从锻炼这些才华得到的好处
729	depend on factors	取决于因素
730	that vary from a moral point of view.	从道德角度来说,这是不同的。
731	What my talents will reap in a market economy	我的才能会在市场经济中收获
732	what does that depend on?	这取决于什么?
733	What other people happen to want or like in this society?	社会上还有其他人想要什么?
734	It depends on the law of supply and demand.	这取决于供求法则.
735	That's not my doing.	这不是我做的。
736	Certainly not the basis for moral desert.	当然不是道德荒漠的基础。
737	What counts as contributing	贡献
738	depends on the qualities	取决于品质
739	that this or that society happens to prize.	这个社会或那个社会碰巧是奖品。
740	Most of us are fortunate to possess	我们大部分人很幸运能拥有
741	in large measure, for whatever reason	在很大程度上,无论出于何种原因
742	the qualities that our society	我们社会的品质
743	happens to prize.	刚好是奖品
744	The qualities that enable us	使我们具备的品质
745	to provide what society wants.	提供社会想要的东西。
746	In a capitalist society	在资本主义社会
747	it helps to have entrepreneurial drive.	它帮助有创业驱动力。
748	It helps to get on easily and smoothly with superiors.	帮助上司轻松顺利相处.
749	In a mass democratic society	在大众民主社会中
750	it helps to look good on television	在电视上看起来不错
751	and to speak in short superficial sound bites.	并用浅浅的音效说话。
752	In a litigious society	在一个诉讼社会
753	it helps to go to law school	上法学院有帮助
754	and to have the talents to do well on LSATs.	并且有才能在LSAT上做得很好。
755	But none of this is our doing.	但这一切都不是我们做的。
756	But we with our talents inhabited not our society	但是,我们有我们的才能居住不我们的社会
757	technologically advanced, highly litigious	技术先进,诉讼激烈
758	but a hunting society or a warrior society.	但狩猎社会或战士社会。
759	What would become of our talents then?	我们的才能会怎样呢?
760	They wouldn't get us very far.	他们不会让我们走远的
761	No doubt some of us would develop others.	毫无疑问,我们有些人会发展其他人。
762	But would we be less worthy?	但是,我们是否更不值得呢?
763	Would we be less virtuous?	我们会不会不那么善良?
764	Would we be less meritorious	难道我们不值得
765	if we lived in that kind of society rather than in ours?	如果我们生活在那种社会而不是我们的生活?
766	Rawls's answer is no.	罗尔斯的回答是否定的.
767	We might make less money	我们可能赚得更少
768	and properly so.	和正确的是这样。
769	But while we would be entitled to less	但是,虽然我们有权减少
770	we would be no less worthy.	我们同样值得
771	No less deserving than we are now.	与现在一样值得。
772	And here's the point, the same could be said	问题就在这里,可以说
773	of those in our society who happen to hold	我们社会中那些碰巧
774	less prestigious positions	不太有声望的职位
775	who happen to have fewer of the talents	才华较少
776	that our society happens to reward.	我们的社会碰巧得到回报。
777	So here's the moral import	这就是道德的意义
778	of the distinction between moral desert	道德沙漠的区别
779	and entitlements to legitimate expectations.	以及享有合法期望的权利。
780	We are entitled to the benefits	我们有权享受福利
781	that the rules of the game promise	游戏规则承诺
782	for the exercise of our talents.	为了发挥我们的才能
783	And to concede, to suppose that we deserve	承认,假设我们值得
784	in the first place a society that values	首先,一个重视
785	the qualities we happen to have in abundance.	我们的品质恰好丰富。
786	Now we've been talking here	现在我们一直在谈这个
787	about income and wealth.	关于收入和财富。
788	What about opportunities and honors?	机会和荣誉呢?
789	What about the distribution	那分配呢?
790	of access, of seats	席位的获得情况
791	in elite colleges and universities?	在精英学院和大学?
792	It's true.	这是真的。
793	All of you	你们所有人
794	most of you first born	你们大多数是刚出生的
795	worked hard, strived	努力奋斗,努力奋斗
796	developed your talents	培养你的才华
797	to get here.	到这里。
798	But Rawls asks, in effect	但罗尔斯问,实际上
799	what is the moral status of your claim	你们的道德地位是什么?
800	to the benefits that attach	附加福利
801	to the opportunities you have?	你的机会?
802	Are seats in colleges	大学的座位
803	and universities	和大学
804	a matter, a kind of reward, an honor	一个问题,一种奖励,一种荣誉
805	for those who deserve them	对那些应得的人,
806	because they've worked so hard?	因为他们工作这么辛苦?
807	Or are those seats	还是那些座位
808	those opportunities and honors	这些机会和荣誉
809	entitlements to legitimate expectations	享受合法期望的权利
810	that depend for their justification	取决于理由的
811	on those of us who enjoy them	我们中有享受他们的,
812	doing so in a way	在某种程度上
813	that works to the benefit	受益的
814	of those at the bottom of society?	社会底层的人?
815	That's the question that Rawls'	这就是罗尔斯的问题
816	difference principle poses.	差异原则构成。
817	It's a question of the	这是一个问题
818	earnings of Michael Jordan and David Letterman	迈克尔·乔丹和戴维·莱特曼的收入
819	and Judge Judy.	还有朱迪法官
820	But it's also a question that can be asked	但这也是一个可以问的问题
821	of opportunities	机会的利用
822	to go to	前往
823	the top colleges and universities.	最顶尖的学院和大学。
824	And that's the debate that comes out	这就是辩论的结果
825	when we turn to the question of affirmative action	当我们谈到扶持行动问题时
826	next time.	下次再说吧
827	Don't miss the chance to interact online	不要错过网上交流的机会
828	with other viewers of Justice.	与正义的其他观众。
829	Join the conversation. Take a pop quiz.	加入对话。做个流行测验
830	Watch lectures you've missed and learn a lot more.	看着你错过的讲座学到更多
831	请访问justiceharvard.org. 谓之正法.
832	. . ....

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P7 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p07 6. 6.平权行动的争论 (P7)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p07 6. 6.平权行动的争论 (P7)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 55:01

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时间	英文	中文
0:00	Funding for this program is provided by, additional funding provided by.	该方案的资金由额外资金提供。
0:29	Last time, we were discussing the distinction that Walls draws between two different types of claims.	上次,我们讨论了Walls对两种不同类型的索赔所作的区分。
0:40	Claims of moral desert on the one hand, and of entitlements to legitimate expectations on the other.	一方面声称道德荒漠,另一方面声称有权享有正当的期望。
0:52	Walls argued that it's a mistake to think that distributive justice is a matter of moral desert.	沃尔斯认为,认为分配正义是道德荒漠问题是错误的.
1:07	A matter of rewarding people according to their virtue.	以功德报恩.
1:12	Today we're going to explore that question of moral desert and its relation to distributive justice.	今天我们要探讨道德沙漠问题及其与分配正义的关系
1:19	Not in connection with income and wealth, but in its connection with opportunities.	不是与收入和财富有关,而是与机会有关。
1:25	With hiring decisions and admission standards.	包括雇用决定和录取标准。
1:30	And so we turn to the case of affirmative action.	因此,我们谈谈平权行动的情况。
1:36	你读过Cheryl Hopwood的案子

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序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by, additional funding provided by.	该方案的资金由额外资金提供。
2	Last time, we were discussing the distinction that Walls draws between two different types of claims.	上次,我们讨论了Walls对两种不同类型的索赔所作的区分。
3	Claims of moral desert on the one hand, and of entitlements to legitimate expectations on the other.	一方面声称道德荒漠,另一方面声称有权享有正当的期望。
4	Walls argued that it's a mistake to think that distributive justice is a matter of moral desert.	沃尔斯认为,认为分配正义是道德荒漠问题是错误的.
5	A matter of rewarding people according to their virtue.	以功德报恩.
6	Today we're going to explore that question of moral desert and its relation to distributive justice.	今天我们要探讨道德沙漠问题及其与分配正义的关系
7	Not in connection with income and wealth, but in its connection with opportunities.	不是与收入和财富有关,而是与机会有关。
8	With hiring decisions and admission standards.	包括雇用决定和录取标准。
9	And so we turn to the case of affirmative action.	因此,我们谈谈平权行动的情况。
10	你读过Cheryl Hopwood的案子
11	She applied for admission to the University of Texas Law School.	她申请进入德克萨斯大学法学院.
12	Cheryl Hopwood had worked her way through high school.	谢丽尔·霍普伍德在高中时很努力
13	She didn't come from an affluent family.	她不是出身富裕的家庭
14	She put herself through community college and California State University at Sacramento.	她把自己通过社区学院和加州州立大学在萨克拉门托.
15	She achieved a 3.8 grade point average there.	她在那里的平均成绩是3.8分。
16	Later moved to Texas, became a resident.	后来移居德州,成为居民.
17	Took the law school admissions test, did pretty well on that.	考了法学院的入学考试成绩不错
18	And she applied to the University of Texas Law School.	她申请了德克萨斯大学法学院
19	She was turned down.	她被拒绝了。
20	She was turned down at a time when the University of Texas was using an affirmative action admissions policy.	在德克萨斯大学采用平权行动招生政策时,她遭到拒绝.
21	A policy that took into account race and ethnic background.	一项考虑到种族和族裔背景的政策。
22	The University of Texas said 40% of the population of Texas is made up of African Americans and Mexican Americans.	德克萨斯大学说,德克萨斯州40%的人口由非裔美国人和墨西哥裔美国人组成.
23	It's important that we, as a law school, have a diverse student body.	重要的是,我们作为一个法学院,拥有一个多样化的学生身体.
24	And so we are going to take into account not only grades and test scores,	所以我们要考虑的不仅是成绩和考试成绩
25	but also the demographic makeup of our class, including its race and ethnic profile.	还有我们阶级的人口组成包括其种族和民族特征
26	The result, and this is what Hopwood complained about,	结果,这就是霍普伍德抱怨的
27	the result of that policy is that some applicants to the University of Texas Law School	德克萨斯大学法学院的一些申请人
28	with the lower academic index, which includes grades and test scores,	学术指数较低,包括成绩和考试分数,
29	than hers were admitted and she was turned down.	比她的被接纳, 她被拒绝。
30	She said, she argued, I'm just being turned down because I'm white.	她说,她争辩,我只是被拒绝因为我是白人。
31	If I weren't, if I were a member of a minority group with my grades and test scores, I would have been admitted.	如果我不是,如果我是少数团体的成员成绩和考试分数,我会被录取。
32	And the statistics, the admissions statistics that came out in the trial	和统计, 录取统计出来在试验
33	confirmed that African American and Mexican American applicants that year	证实该年的非裔美国人和墨西哥裔美国人申请人
34	who had her grades and test scores were admitted.	她的成绩和考试成绩都被录取了
35	It went to federal court.	它去了联邦法院。
36	Now, put aside the law, let's consider it from the standpoint of justice and morality.	现在,撇开法律,让我们从正义和道德的角度来考虑.
37	Is it fair or is it unfair?	公平还是不公平?
38	Does Cheryl Hopwood have a case, a legitimate complaint?	谢丽尔·霍普伍德有案子合法投诉吗
39	Were her rights violated by the admissions policy of the law school?	她的权利受到侵犯了吗?
40	How many say, how many would rule for the law school	有多少人说,有多少人会统治法学院
41	and say that it was just to consider race and ethnicity as a factor in admissions?	并说这只是把种族和族裔视为录取的因素?
42	How many would rule for Cheryl Hopwood and say her rights were violated?	有多少人会统治Cheryl Hopwood 说她的权利受到了侵犯?
43	So here we have a pretty even split.	因此,我们有一个相当平分。
44	All right, now I want to hear from a defender of Cheryl Hopwood.	好吧,现在我想听谢丽尔・霍普伍德的辩护人。
45	Yes.	对
46	You're basing something on that's an arbitrary factor.	你根据的是这个因素
47	Cheryl couldn't control the fact that she was white or not in a minority.	谢丽尔无法控制自己是白人还是非少数民族的事实.
48	And therefore, it's not as if it was like a test score that she worked hard to try	因此,这不是像一个测试分数她努力尝试
49	and show that she could put that out there, that she had no control over her race.	并显示她可以把在那里, 她没有控制她的种族。
50	Good.	不错
51	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
52	Brie.	布丽
53	Okay, Brie, stay right there.	好吧,布丽,呆在那里。
54	Now, let's find someone who has an answer for Brie.	现在,我们去找一个有答案的人
55	Yes.	对
56	There are discrepancies in the educational system.	教育系统存在差异。
57	A majority of the time, I know this in New York City,	大部分时间,我知道这一点在纽约市,
58	the schools that minorities go to are not as well-funded,	少数群体就读的学校经费不足,
59	are not as well-supplied as white schools.	供应不如白人学校。
60	And so there is going to be a discrepancy naturally between minorities and between whites	所以少数民族和白人之间自然会出现差异
61	if they go to better schools.	如果他们去更好的学校。
62	And they will not do as well on exams because they haven't had as much help	考试时他们不会做得那么好因为他们没有那么多帮助
63	because of the worse school system.	因为学校制度更糟
64	All right, let me just interrupt you. Tell me your name.	好吧,让我打断你。告诉我你的名字。
65	Anisha.	阿尼沙(原变种).
66	Anisha, you're pointing out that minority kids may have gone, in some cases,	Anisha,你指出少数族群的孩子可能已经走了, 在某些情况下,
67	to schools that didn't give them the same educational opportunity	学校没有给他们同样的教育机会
68	as kids from affluent families.	作为富裕家庭的孩子
69	Yes.	对
70	And so the test scores they got may actually not represent their true potential.	因此,他们得到的测试分数可能并不代表他们的真正潜力。
71	Because they didn't receive the same kind of help that they might have received	因为他们没有得到同样的帮助他们可能已经得到了
72	had they gone to a school with better funding.	他们去的学校有更好的资金。
73	Good. All right.	不错好吧,我们走。
74	Anisha has raised the point that colleges still should choose	Anisha提出学院应该选择
75	for the greatest academic scholarly promise,	为最大的学术承诺,
76	but in reading the test scores and grades,	但是在阅读考试成绩和成绩时
77	they should take into account the different meaning those tests and grades have	它们应考虑到这些考试和成绩的不同含义。
78	in the light of educational disadvantage in the background.	考虑到教育背景的不利地位。
79	So that's one argument in defense of affirmative action,	所以,这是捍卫平权行动的一个论点,
80	Anisha's argument, correcting for the effects of unequal preparation,	Anisha的论点,纠正不平等准备的效果,
81	educational disadvantage.	教育劣势。
82	Now, there are other arguments.	现在,还有其他的论点。
83	Suppose, just to identify whether there is a competing principle here,	假设,仅仅为了确定这里是否有相互竞争的原则,
84	suppose there are two candidates who did equally well on the tests and grades,	假设有两位候选人在考试和成绩上表现同样出色,
85	both of whom went to first-rate schools.	两人都上过一流的学校。
86	Two candidates.	两个候选人。
87	Among those candidates, would it be unfair for the college or university,	在这些候选人中,如果对学院或大学不公平,
88	for Harvard to say, we still want diversity along racial and ethnic dimensions,	哈佛大学说,我们仍希望种族和族裔的多样性,
89	even where we are not correcting for the effects on test scores	即使我们没有纠正对测试分数的影响
90	of educational disadvantage?	教育劣势?
91	What about in that case, Bree?	那样怎么样 Bree?
92	If it's that one thing that puts someone over the edge,	如果有一件事让某人陷入困境
93	then I guess that would be justifiable.	那么我猜这是有道理的。
94	If everything else about the individual first, though,	如果其他一切关于个人,虽然,
95	everything they consider about that person's talents and where they come from	他们所考虑的一切关于他的才能和他们来自哪里
96	and who they are without these arbitrary factors is the same.	没有这些武断因素,他们是谁也是一样。
97	Without these arbitrary factors, you call it.	没有这些任意因素,你叫它。
98	But before, you were suggesting, Bree, that race and ethnicity	但之前,你是在暗示,布瑞,种族和民族
99	are arbitrary factors outside the control of the applicants.	是申请人无法控制的任意因素。
100	Sure, I would agree with that.	当然,我会同意这一点。
101	And your general principle is that admissions shouldn't reward arbitrary factors	你的一般原则是录取不应该奖励任意因素
102	over which people have no control.	他们不能控制一切。
103	Right.	对
104	All right.	好吧,我们走。
105	Who else would like to thank you both?	还有谁想感谢你们俩?
106	Who else would like to get into this?	还有谁想参与进来?
107	What do you say?	你说什么?
108	Well, first of all, I'm for affirmative action temporarily,	首先我暂时支持平权行动
109	but for two reasons.	但有两个原因
110	First of all, you have to look at the university's purpose.	首先,你必须看看大学的目的。
111	It is to educate their students.	教育他们的学生。
112	And I feel that different races, people coming from different races,	我觉得不同的种族, 不同种族的人,
113	have different backgrounds and they contribute differently to the education.	他们有不同的背景,对教育的贡献不同。
114	And second of all, when you say they have equal backgrounds,	第二,当你说他们有同样的背景,
115	that's not true when you look at the broader picture and you look at slavery.	这不是真的,当你看更广的画面,你看着奴隶制。
116	And this is kind of a reparation.	这是种补偿。
117	I think affirmative action is a temporary solution to alleviate history	我认为平权行动是缓解历史的暂时解决办法
118	and the wrongs done to African Americans in particular.	特别是对非裔美国人犯下的错误。
119	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
120	David.	大卫
121	You say that affirmative action is justified, at least for now,	你说平权行动是正当的至少现在
122	as a way of compensating for past injustice, the legacy of slavery and segregation.	以补偿过去的不公正、奴隶制和种族隔离的遗留问题。
123	Right.	对
124	Who wants to take on that argument?	谁想接受这个论点?
125	We need now a critic of affirmative action.	我们现在需要一位肯定行动的批评者。
126	Yes, go ahead.	说吧
127	I think that what happened in the past has no bearing on what happens today,	我认为过去发生的事与今天发生的事无关
128	and I think that discriminating based on race should always be wrong,	我认为基于种族的歧视应该永远是错误的,
129	whether you're discriminating against one group or another.	无论你歧视的是哪个群体
130	Just because our ancestors did something doesn't mean that	只是因为我们的祖先做了什么并不意味着
131	that should have any effect on what happens with us today.	这应该对我们今天发生的事情有任何影响。
132	All right, good.	好吧,不错。
133	I'm sorry, your name is?	对不起,你的名字是?
134	Kate.	凯特
135	All right, who has an answer for Kate?	好吧,谁有凯特的答案?
136	Yes.	对
137	I just wanted to comment and say that...	我只是想说...
138	Tell us your name.	告诉我们你的名字。
139	My name is Mansoor.	我叫曼苏尔
140	Because of slavery, because of past injustices,	因为奴隶制,因为过去的不公正,
141	today we have a higher proportion of African Americans who are in poverty,	今天,贫困的非裔美国人比例较高,
142	who face less opportunities than white people.	他们面对的机会比白人少
143	And so because of slavery 200 years ago,	因为二百年前的奴隶制
144	and because of Jim Crow, and because of segregation,	还有因为吉姆·克劳和因为隔离
145	today we have injustice based on race.	今天,我们有基于种族的不公正待遇。
146	Kate?	凯特?
147	I think that there are differences, obviously,	我认为有分歧,很明显,
148	but the way to fix those differences is not by some artificial fixing of the result.	但消除这些差异的方法并不是人为地确定结果。
149	You need to fix the problem.	你需要解决这个问题。
150	So we need to address differences in education	所以我们需要解决教育方面的分歧
151	and differences in upbringing with programs like Head Start	和与 " 开始 " 等程序在培养方面的差异
152	and giving more funding to lower-income schools	向低收入学校提供更多资金;
153	rather than trying to just fix the result	而不是试图只是修复结果
154	so it makes it look like it's equal when really it isn't.	所以它让它看起来像是平等的当它真的不是。
155	Yes.	对
156	Well, with regard to affirmative action based on race,	关于基于种族的平权行动,
157	I just want to say that white people have had their own affirmative action in this country	我只想说白人在这个国家有自己的平权行动
158	for more than 400 years.	超过400年。
159	It's called nepotism and quid pro quo.	所谓任人唯命与报.
160	So there's nothing wrong with correcting the injustice and discrimination	所以纠正不公正和歧视是没有问题的
161	that's been done to black people for 400 years.	这已经对黑人做了400年。
162	Good.	不错
163	Tell us...	告诉我们...
164	Great, tell us your name.	太好了,告诉我们你的名字。
165	Hannah.	汉娜
166	All right, who has an answer for Hannah?	好吧,谁有汉娜的答案?
167	And just to add to Hannah's point,	而且为了补充汉娜的观点
168	because we need now someone to respond,	因为我们现在需要有人回应,
169	Hannah, you could have also mentioned legacy admissions.	汉娜,你也可以提到遗产录取。
170	Exactly.	没错
171	I was going to say, if you disagree with affirmative action,	我想说如果你不同意平权行动
172	you should disagree with legacy admission,	你应该不同意传统承认,
173	because it's obvious from looking around here	因为从这里看很明显
174	that there are more white legacies than black legacies	白人遗产比黑人遗产还多
175	in the history of Harvard University.	在哈佛大学的历史。
176	And explain what legacy admissions are.	并解释什么是遗产承认.
177	Well, legacy admissions is giving an advantage to someone	传统招生给别人带来好处
178	who has an arbitrary privilege of their parent	拥有父母专有特权的人
179	for having attended the university to which they're applying.	因为他们上过他们申请的大学
180	All right, so a reply for Hannah.	好吧,给汉娜一个答复
181	Yes, in the balcony.	是的,在阳台上。
182	Go ahead.	来吧。
183	First of all, if affirmative action is making up for past injustice,	首先,如果平权行动能弥补过去的不公正,
184	how do you explain minorities that were not historically discriminated against	如何解释历史上没有受到歧视的少数群体
185	in the United States who get these advantages?	在美国谁得到这些优势?
186	In addition, you could argue that affirmative action perpetuates divisions between the races	此外,你可以认为,平权行动延续了种族之间的分歧。
187	rather than achieve the ultimate goal of race being an irrelevant factor in our society.	而不是实现种族成为我们社会无关因素的最终目标。
188	And what? Tell us your name.	还有呢? 告诉我们你的名字。
189	Danielle.	丹妮尔
190	Hannah.	汉娜
191	I disagree with that because I think that by promoting diversity in an institution like this,	我不同意这一点,因为我认为,通过促进这种机构的多样性,
192	you further educate all of the students,	你进一步教育所有的学生,
193	especially the white students who grew up in predominantly white areas.	特别是白人学生他们主要在白人地区长大
194	It's certainly a form of education to be exposed to people from different backgrounds,	这肯定是一种教育形式接触来自不同背景的人,
195	and you put white students at an inherent disadvantage	你将白人学生置于固有的不利地位
196	when you surround them only with their own kind.	当时,你们只用他们的同类包围他们。
197	Why should race necessarily be equated with diversity?	为什么种族必须等同于多样性?
198	There are so many other forms.	有很多其他形式。
199	Why should we assume that race makes people different?	我们为什么要假设种族让人们不同?
200	Again, that's perpetuating the idea of racial division within our universities and our society.	这也是我们大学和社会中种族分裂思想的延续.
201	Hannah.	汉娜
202	With regard to African-American people being given a special advantage,	关于非裔美国人获得特殊优势的问题,
203	it's obvious that they bring something special to the table	很明显他们带了些特别的东西来
204	because they have a unique perspective just as someone from a different religion	因为他们有独特的视角就像来自不同宗教的人
205	or socioeconomic background would as well.	或社会经济背景也会。
206	As you say, there are many different types of diversity.	如你所说,多样性有很多种。
207	There's no reason that racial diversity should be eliminated from that criteria.	种族多样性没有理由从这个标准中去除.
208	Yes, go ahead.	说吧
209	Racial discrimination is illegal in this country,	种族歧视在这个国家是非法的,
210	and I believe that it was African-American leaders themselves	我相信是非裔美国领导人自己
211	when Martin Luther King said he wanted to be judged not on the color of his skin	当马丁・路德・金说,他不想被评判他的肤色
212	but by the content of his character, his merit, his achievements.	他的性格、功绩、成就
213	And I just think that to decide solely based on someone's race	我只是认为仅仅根据某人的种族来决定
214	is just inherently unfair.	本来就是不公平的
215	I mean, if you want to correct based on disadvantaged backgrounds,	我的意思是,如果你想纠正基于不利背景,
216	that's fine, but there are also disadvantaged white people as well.	也有一些白人处于劣势
217	It shouldn't matter if you're white.	白衣应否.
218	Tell us your name.	告诉我们你的名字。
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220	Ted?	特德吗?
221	Yes.	对
222	Think of Hopwood.	想着霍普伍德
223	It's unfair to count race or I assume you would also say ethnicity or religion.	数种族是不公平的或者我想你也会说民族或宗教
224	Yes.	对
225	Do you think she has a right to be considered according to her grades and test scores alone?	你觉得她有权利被考虑根据她的成绩和测试分数?
226	No, there is more to it than that.	不,还有更多的。
227	Universities need to promote diversity.	大学需要促进多样性。
228	So you agree with the goal of promoting diversity?	你同意促进多样性的目标吗?
229	There's ways to promote diversity besides discriminating against people	除了对人的歧视,还有促进多样性的方法
230	solely based on a factor that they cannot control.	完全基于他们无法控制的因素。
231	All right, so what makes it wrong is that she can't control her race.	好吧,所以是什么使它错了是她不能控制她的种族。
232	She can't control the fact that she's white.	她不能控制自己是白人的事实.
233	That's the heart of the unfairness to her.	这是对她不公平的核心
234	Brie made a similar point.	布里也提出了类似的观点.
235	That basing admissions on factors that people can't control is fundamentally unfair.	基于人们无法控制的因素的承认是根本的不公平的。
236	What do you say?	你说什么?
237	There's a lot of things you can't control.	诸法无量无边.
238	And if you're going to go through it based on merit, like just based on your test scores,	如果你要通过它根据功绩, 就像仅仅根据你的测试分数,
239	a lot of what you can achieve has to do with the family background that you raised.	你能够实现的许多目标都与你提起的家庭背景有关
240	And if both your parents were scholarly,	如果你父母都是学者
241	then you have more of a chance of actually being more scholarly yourself and getting those grades.	然后你有更多的机会成为更多的学者自己并获得这些成绩。
242	And you can't control what kind of family you were born into.	你无法控制你所生的家庭
243	All right, good. That's a great rejoinder.	好吧,不错。这是伟大的复辩。
244	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
245	Da.	达曰.
246	Ted, are you against advantages that come from the family you were born into?	Ted 你反对你生下来的家庭的好处吗?
247	What about legacy admissions?	遗产的录取呢?
248	I mean, I do believe that in terms of a legacy admission, you shouldn't have a special preference.	我的意思是,我确实相信,在遗产承认,你不应该有一个特别的偏好。
249	I mean, there is a legacy admission you could argue is another part of diversity.	我的意思是,有一个遗产的承认你可以认为是多样性的另一部分。
250	You could say it's important to have a small percentage of people that have several generation family attendance at a place like Harvard.	你可以说,在像哈佛这样的地方, 有几代人的家庭参与很重要。
251	However, that should not be an advantage factor like race.	然而,这不应像种族那样是一个有利因素。
252	That should just be another part of promoting diversity.	这应该只是促进多样性的另一个部分。
253	Should it count at all?	这算不算?
254	Alumni status, should it count at all, Ted?	校友身份,这算不算,泰德?
255	Yes, it should count.	是的,应该算数
256	All right, I want to step back for a moment from these arguments.	好吧,我想退一步从这些论点。
257	Thank you all for these contributions.	感谢大家的贡献。
258	We're going to come back to you.	我们会回来找你的
259	If you've listened carefully, I think you will have noticed three different arguments emerged from this discussion	如果你仔细听了,我想你会注意到从讨论中出现了三个不同的论点
260	in defense of considering race and ethnicity as a factor in admissions.	为将种族和族裔视为录取因素辩护。
261	One argument has to do with correcting for the effects, for the effects of educational disadvantage.	一种论点涉及纠正教育劣势的影响。
262	这是Anisha的论点。
263	This is what we might call the corrective argument.	这就是我们所谓的纠正论点。
264	Correcting for differences in educational background, the kind of school people went to, the opportunities they had and so on.	纠正教育背景的差别、学生的种类、机会等等。
265	That's one argument.	这是一个争论。
266	What's worth noticing, though, is that that argument is consistent in principle with the idea	但值得注意的是,这个论点在原则上符合
267	that only academic promise and scholarly potential should count in admissions.	在录取中,只考虑学术承诺和学术潜力。
268	We just need to go beyond test scores and grades alone to get a true estimate of academic promise and scholarly ability.	我们只需要超越测试分数和分数才能真正估计学术前景和学术能力
269	That's the first argument.	此是初辩.
270	Then we heard a second argument that said affirmative action is justified even where there may not be the need to correct for educational disadvantage	然后,我们听到第二个论点,说平权行动是正当的,即使没有必要纠正教育方面的不利因素。
271	in a particular applicant's case.	在某一申请人的案件中。
272	It's justified as a way of compensating for past wrongs, for historic injustices.	这是对过去的错误,对历史的不公正进行补偿的一种合理方法.
273	So that's a compensatory argument.	所以,这是一个补偿性的论点。
274	Compensating for past wrongs.	弥补过去的错误。
275	Then we heard a third, a different argument for affirmative action from Hannah and others.	然后我们听到了第三个, 不同的论点平权行动与汉娜和其他人。
276	That argued in the name of diversity.	这是以多样性的名义提出的。
277	Now the diversity argument is different from the compensatory argument	现在多样性的论点不同于补偿性的论点
278	because it makes a certain appeal to the social purpose or the social mission of the college or university.	因为它对学院或大学的社会目的或社会使命有一定的吸引力。
279	There are really two aspects to the diversity argument.	多样性的论点实际上有两个方面。
280	One says it's important to have a diverse student body for the sake of the educational experience for everyone.	一个说,为了每个人的教育经历,拥有多样化的学生身体是很重要的.
281	Hannah made that point.	汉娜说到这一点。
282	And the other talks about the wider society.	而彼则谈广大社会.
283	This was the argument made by the University of Texas in the Hoplid case.	这是德克萨斯大学在Hoplid案中提出的论点。
284	We need to train lawyers and judges and leaders, public officials,	我们需要培训律师、法官和领导人、政府官员,
285	who will contribute to the strength, the civic strength of the state of Texas and the country as a whole.	他们将为德克萨斯州和整个国家的力量、公民力量作出贡献。
286	So there are two different aspects to the diversity argument.	因此多样性的论点有两个不同的方面。
287	But both are arguments in the name of the social purpose or the social mission or the common good served by the institution.	但两者都是以社会目的或社会使命或机构服务的共同利益的名义提出的论点.
288	Well, what about the force of these arguments?	那么,这些争论的力量呢?
289	We've also heard objections to these arguments.	我们也听到有人反对这些论点.
290	The most powerful objection to the compensatory argument is,	对补偿性论点的最强烈反对意见是,
291	今天让Cheryl Hopwood 做出牺牲是公平的
292	to pay the compensation for an injustice that was admittedly committed and was egregious in the past,	赔偿过去所犯下的、令人发指的不公正行为,
293	but in which she was not implicated.	但是她并没有卷入其中。
294	Is that fair?	公平吗?
295	So that's an important objection to the compensatory argument.	所以这是对补偿论的重要反对.
296	And in order to meet that objection,	为了应付这个反对
297	we would have to investigate whether there is such a thing as group rights or collective responsibility that reaches over time.	我们不得不调查是否有诸如群体权利或集体责任之类的东西随着时间的推移。
298	So having identified that issue, let's set it aside to turn to the diversity argument.	因此,在找出了这个问题之后,让我们把它放在一边,来谈谈多样性的论点。
299	The diversity argument doesn't have to worry about that question,	多样性的争论不必担心这个问题,
300	about collective responsibility for past wrongs.	关于对过去错误的集体责任。
301	Because it says, for reasons Hannah and others pointed out,	因为它说, 出于汉娜和其他人指出的原因,
302	that the common good is served, is advanced,	以便众生得享福,
303	if there is a racially and ethnically diverse student body.	如果有种族和种族多样性的学生团体。
304	Everyone benefits.	每个人都有益处。
305	And this indeed was the argument that Harvard made	这确实是哈佛大学提出的论点
306	when it filed a Friend of the Court brief to the Supreme Court	当法院之友向最高法院提交案情摘要时
307	in the 1978 case, affirmative action case, the Bakke case.	在1978年案件中,平权行动案,Bakke案。
308	And the Harvard brief, the Harvard rationale,	哈佛简介哈佛理论
309	was cited by Justice Powell, who was the swing vote in the case, upholding affirmative action.	鲍威尔法官引用了这一点,鲍威尔法官是本案的摇摆投票人,坚持平权行动。
310	He cited that as providing the rationale that he thought was constitutionally acceptable.	他提到,这提供了他认为在宪法上可以接受的理由。
311	Harvard's argument in its brief was this.	哈佛在简介中的论点就是这个.
312	We care about diversity.	我们关心多样性。
313	Scholarly excellence alone has never been the criterion of admission,	单凭学者的才能从来不是录取的标准
314	the sole criterion of admission to Harvard College.	进入哈佛大学的唯一标准
315	Fifteen years ago, diversity meant students from California and New York and Massachusetts,	十五年前多样性意味着来自加州纽约和马萨诸塞州的学生
316	city dwellers and farm boys, violinists, painters and football players,	城市居民和农场男孩、小提琴手、画家和足球运动员,
317	biologists, historians and classicists.	生物学家,历史学家和经典学家.
318	The only difference now, Harvard argued,	现在唯一的区别,哈佛大学认为,
319	is that we're adding racial and ethnic status to this long list of diversity considerations.	也就是我们把种族和民族地位列入这长长的多样化考虑清单。
320	When reviewing the large number of candidates able to do well in our classes,	在回顾我们班上能做得很好的大批候选人时,
321	Harvard wrote, race may count as a plus just as coming from Iowa may count	哈佛写道,种族可能算一个加数就像来自爱荷华州的种族可能算一个加数
322	or being a good middle linebacker or pianist.	或当好中后卫或钢琴家
323	A farm boy from Idaho can bring something to Harvard College that a Bostonian cannot offer.	爱达荷州的农场男孩可以带一些波士顿人无法提供的东西到哈佛大学.
324	Similarly, a black student can usually bring something a white student cannot offer.	同样,黑人学生通常可以带来白人学生不能提供的东西.
325	The quality of the educational experience of all students depends in part on these differences.	所有学生的教育经验的质量部分取决于这些差异。
326	In the background and outlook that students bring with them.	在学生带给他们的背景和前景中.
327	That was Harvard's argument.	这是哈佛大学的论点。
328	Now what about the diversity argument?	那么多样性的争论呢?
329	Is it persuasive?	有说服力吗?
330	If it's to be persuasive, it has to meet one very powerful objection	要有说服力,必须面对一个非常强大的反对
331	that we've heard voiced here by Ted, by Bree.	我们听到泰德和布瑞在这里说话
332	Unless you're a utilitarian, you believe that individual rights can't be violated.	除非你是功利主义者,你相信个人权利是不能被侵犯的.
333	And so the question is, is there an individual right that is violated?	因此,问题是,是否存在侵犯个人权利的问题?
334	Is Cheryl Hopwood's right violated if she is used, so to speak, denied admission	如果Cheryl Hopwood被利用的话她的权利就受到侵犯了所以说她被拒绝了
335	for the sake of the common good and the social mission	为了共同利益和社会使命
336	that the University of Texas Law School has defined for itself?	德克萨斯大学法学院为自己定下了定义?
337	Does she have a right?	她有权利吗?
338	Don't we deserve to be considered according to our excellences, our achievements,	难道我们不应该被考虑根据我们的优秀,我们的成就,
339	our accomplishments, our hard work?	我们的成就,我们的辛勤工作?
340	Isn't that the right at stake?	这不就是关键吗?
341	Now we've already heard an answer to that argument.	现在我们已经听到了关于这个论点的答案。
342	No, she doesn't have a right.	不,她没有权利。
343	Nobody deserves to be admitted.	没有人应该被接纳。
344	Notice how this gets us back to the issue of desert versus entitlement.	注意这如何让我们回到沙漠与权利的问题。
345	They're arguing there is no individual right that Hopwood has.	他们认为霍普伍德没有个人权利
346	She doesn't deserve to be admitted according to any particular set of criteria	她不值得按照任何特定标准被录取
347	that she believes to be important,	她认为很重要,
348	including criteria that have only to do with her efforts and achievements.	包括仅与她的努力和成就有关的标准。
349	Why not?	为什么不呢?
350	I think implicit in this argument	我觉得这个论点是隐含的
351	is something like Rawls's rejection of moral desert as the basis of distributive justice.	和罗尔斯拒绝道德沙漠作为分配正义的基础一样
352	Yes, once Harvard defines its mission	是的,一旦哈佛确定了它的使命
353	and designs its admission policy in the light of its mission,	并根据其使命制定接纳政策,
354	people are entitled, who fit those criteria, they are entitled to be admitted.	符合这些标准的人有权被接纳。
355	But according to this argument,	但根据这个论点,
356	no one deserves that Harvard College define its mission	没有人值得哈佛大学确定它的使命
357	and design its admission criteria in the first place	并首先设计其接纳标准
358	in a way that prizes the qualities they happen to have in abundance.	以奖励他们富足的品质
359	Whether those qualities are test scores or grades or the ability to play the piano	这些品质是测试分数还是成绩还是弹钢琴的能力
360	or to be a good middle linebacker	或成为优秀的中后卫
361	or to come from Iowa or to come from a certain minority group.	或来自爱荷华州或来自某个少数群体。
362	So you see how this debate about affirmative action,	所以,你看这场关于平权行动的辩论,
363	especially the diversity argument, takes us back to the question of rights,	特别是多样性的论点,让我们回到权利问题上,
364	which in turn takes us back to the question of whether moral desert is or is not	这反过来又让我们回到道德沙漠是还是不是
365	the basis for distributive justice.	分配正义的基础。
366	Think about that over the weekend and we'll continue this discussion next time.	周末再考虑,下次再继续讨论
367	Suppose we're distributing flutes.	假设我们在分发笛子。
368	Who should get the best ones?	谁应该得到最好的?
369	What's Aristotle's answer? Anyone?	亚里士多德的答案是什么? 有人吗?
370	His answer is the best flutes should go to the best flute players	他的答案是最好的笛子应该去最好的笛手
371	because that's what flutes are for.	因为这就是笛子的目的
372	When we ended last time,	我们上次结束的时候
373	we were considering arguments for and against affirmative action,	我们在考虑主张和反对平权行动的论点,
374	counting race as a factor in admissions.	计算种族作为录取因素.
375	And in the course of the discussion,	在讨论过程中,
376	three arguments emerged, three arguments for affirmative action.	出现了三个论点,三个主张采取平权行动的论点。
377	One of them was the idea that race and ethnic background should count	其中一个想法是种族和民族背景应该算在内
378	as a way of correcting for the true meaning of test scores and grades,	作为纠正测试分数和分数真实含义的方法,
379	getting a more accurate measure of the academic potential those scores,	更准确地衡量这些成绩的学术潜力,
380	those numbers represent.	这些数字代表。
381	Second was what we called the compensatory argument,	第二是我们所谓的补偿性论点,
382	the idea of writing past wrongs, past injustice.	写过去的错误,过去不公正的想法。
383	And the third was the diversity argument.	第三是多样性的论点。
384	当Cheryl Hopwood在1990年代挑战得克萨斯大学时
385	law school's affirmative action program in the federal courts,	法学院在联邦法院的平权行动方案,
386	the University of Texas made another version of the diversity argument,	德克萨斯大学提出了另一种多样性论点,
387	saying that the broader social purpose,	说更广泛的社会目标,
388	the social mission of the University of Texas law school	德克萨斯大学法学院的社会使命
389	is to produce leaders in the legal community,	在法律界产生领袖,
390	in the political community, among judges, lawyers, legislators,	在政治界、法官、律师、立法者、
391	and therefore it's important that we produce leaders	因此,我们必须产生领袖
392	who reflect the background and the experience	反映背景和经验的人
393	and the ethnic and the racial composition of the state of Texas.	德克萨斯州的民族和种族组成
394	It's important for serving our wider social mission.	这对我们更广泛的社会使命很重要.
395	That was the University of Texas law school's argument.	这是德克萨斯大学法学院的论点。
396	And then we considered an objection to the diversity argument,	然后我们考虑反对多样性的论点,
397	which after all is an argument in the name of the social mission, the common good.	这毕竟是一个争论以社会使命的名义, 共同利益。
398	We saw that Rawls does not simply believe	我们看到罗尔斯并不只是相信
399	that arguments of the common good or the general welfare should prevail	(a) 应以共同利益或一般福利的论点为准;
400	if individual rights must be violated in the course of promoting the common good.	如果在促进共同利益的过程中必须侵犯个人权利。
401	You remember that was the question, the challenge,	你记得那是问题挑战
402	to the diversity rationale that we were considering when we finished last time.	我们上次完成这项工作时正在考虑的多样性理由。
403	And to discuss the question, well, what right might be at stake?	为了讨论这个问题, 那么,什么权利是危险的?
404	Maybe the right to be considered according to factors within one's control.	也许根据自己控制范围内的因素来考虑的权利.
405	也许这就是Cheryl Hopwood暗中提出的论点
406	She婆 can婆白佛言.
407	Why should her chance at getting into law school depend on a factor she can't control?	为什么她上法学院的机会取决于她无法控制的因素?
408	And then Hannah, who was advancing an argument last time,	然后Hannah, 他提出一个争论,
409	said Harvard has the right to define its mission any way it wants to.	说哈佛有权以任何它想要的方式确定它的使命.
410	It's a private institution.	民办机构.
411	And it's only once Harvard defines its mission	哈佛大学才确定了它的使命
412	that we can identify the qualities that count.	我们能辨别出重要的品质
413	So no rights are being violated.	因此,没有侵犯任何权利。
414	Now, what about that argument?	那这个争论呢?
415	What I would like to do is to hear objections to that reply	我想做的是听到对这个答复的反对
416	and then see whether others have an answer.	然后看看别人是否有答案
417	Yes. And tell us your name.	对并告诉我们你的名字。
418	Da.	达曰.
419	Da. Right. You spoke up last time.	对你上次说话了
420	All right. How do you answer that argument?	好吧,我们走。你怎么回答这种争论?
421	Well, I think there was two things in there.	我觉得里面有两件事
422	One of them was that a private institution could define its mission however it wants,	其中之一是私人机构可以随意确定其使命,
423	but then that doesn't make however it defines it right.	但这并不能说明它是否正确
424	Like, I could define my personal mission as I want to collect all the money in the world,	喜欢,我可以确定我的个人任务因为我想收集所有的钱在世界上,
425	but does that make it even a good mission?	但是这是否就成了一个好任务?
426	So you can't say that just because a college is a private institution,	所以你不能因为大学是私人机构就这么说
427	it could just define it whatever it wants.	它可以随便定义它
428	We still have to think about whether the way it's defining it is right.	我们仍然需要思考它的定义是否正确.
429	And in the case of affirmative action, a lot of people have said that	对于平权行动,很多人都说
430	since there's a lot of other factors involved, why not race?	既然还有其他许多因素, 为什么不种族?
431	Like, we already know that the system is imperfect.	譬如,我们已经知道这个系统是不完善的。
432	All right. I want to stick with your first point, Da.	好吧,我们走。我想坚持你的第一点,爸爸。
433	Here's Da's objection.	此处达人反对.
434	Can a college or university define its social purpose any way it wants to	大学或大学能否以任何方式界定其社会目的
435	and then define admissions criteria accordingly?	然后据此界定录取标准?
436	What about the University of Texas Law School, not today, but in the 1950s?	那德克萨斯大学法学院呢,不是今天,而是1950年代?
437	Then there was another Supreme Court case against the admissions policy	后来又发生了一起最高法院反对录取政策的案件
438	of the University of Texas Law School because it was segregated.	德克萨斯大学法学院,因为它被隔离。
439	It only admitted whites.	它只承认白人。
440	And when the case went to court back in the 50s,	当50年代案件上法庭时
441	the University of Texas Law School also invoked its mission.	德克萨斯大学法学院也援引了其使命。
442	Our mission as a law school is to educate lawyers for the Texas bar, for Texas law firms.	我们作为一所法学院的使命是教育德克萨斯律师事务所的律师
443	And no Texas law firm hires African Americans.	没有德克萨斯州律师事务所雇用非裔美国人
444	So to fulfill our mission, we only admit whites.	所以为了完成我们的任务我们只接纳白人
445	Or consider Harvard in the 1930s when it had anti-Jewish quotas.	或认为哈佛在1930年代拥有反犹太人配额.
446	President Lowell, president of Harvard in the 1930s, said	1930年代哈佛大学校长洛威尔说
447	that he had nothing personally against Jews.	他个人对犹太人没有意见
448	But he invoked the mission, the social purpose of Harvard, he said,	但他援引了任务,哈佛的社会宗旨,他说,
449	which is not only to train intellectuals.	这不仅是为了培养知识分子
450	Part of the mission of Harvard, he said, is to train stockbrokers for Wall Street,	他说哈佛的一部分任务就是为华尔街训练股票经纪人
451	presidents and senators.	总统和参议员。
452	And there are very few Jews who go into those professions.	很少有犹太人从事这些职业。
453	Now here's the challenge.	现在,这是挑战。
454	Is there a principle distinction between the invocation of the social purpose	援引社会目的之间是否有原则上的区别?
455	of the college or university today in the diversity rationale	今天的学院或大学在多样性的理由
456	and the invocation of the social purpose or mission of the university	和援引大学的社会宗旨或使命
457	by Texas in the 1950s or Harvard in the 1930s?	得克萨斯在1950年代还是哈佛在1930年代?
458	Is there a difference in principle?	原则上有什么区别吗?
459	What's the reply?	何等为答.
460	Hannah?	汉娜?
461	Well, I think that the principle that's different here is basically	我认为不同的原则是
462	the distinction between inclusion versus exclusion.	将包容与排斥区分开来。
463	I think that it's morally wrong of the university to say,	我认为大学在道德上不该说
464	we're going to exclude you on the basis of your religion or your race.	我们要根据你的宗教或种族来排除你
465	That's denial on the basis of arbitrary factors.	这是基于任意因素的否定.
466	What Harvard is trying to do today with its diversity initiatives	哈佛大学今天想用它的多样性倡议做什么
467	is to include groups that were excluded in the past.	包括过去被排除在外的群体。
468	Good.	不错
469	Let's see if, stay there, let's see if someone would like to reply.	看看有没有人愿意回答
470	Go ahead.	来吧。
471	Actually, this was kind of in support of Hannah rather than a reply,	事实上,这有点支持汉娜而不是一个答复,
472	but I was going to say another principle difference can be based on malice	但我想说另一个原则上的区别可能基于恶意
473	being the justification, I guess, for the historical segregation act.	我想是历史隔离法的理由
474	So it's saying that we're not going to let Blacks or Jews in	也就是说我们不会让黑人或犹太人进来
475	because they're worse as people or as a group.	因为他们比人或群体更糟糕
476	Good.	不错
477	So the element of malice is in presence.	因此恶意的元素存在.
478	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
479	Stevie.	史蒂维
480	Stevie says that in the historic segregationist, racist,	史提夫说在历史隔离主义者种族主义者
481	anti-Semitic quotas or prohibitions,	反犹配额或禁令,
482	there was built into them a certain kind of malice,	他们中有一种恶意,
483	a certain kind of judgment that African Americans or Jews	某种判断非裔美国人或犹太人
484	were somehow less worthy than everybody else.	比其他人更没有价值
485	Whereas present day affirmative action programs	当今的平权行动方案
486	don't involve or imply any such judgment.	不要涉及或暗示任何这样的判断。
487	What it amounts to saying is so long as a policy	这相当于说, 如此长的政策
488	just uses people in a way as valuable to the social purpose	利用别人来达到社会目的
489	of the institution, it's okay,	机构,没关系,
490	provided it doesn't judge them maliciously, as Stevie might add,	如果它没有恶意判断他们, 正如史蒂维可能补充,
491	as intrinsically less worthy.	内在的不值得。
492	I'd like to raise a question.	我想提个问题
493	Doesn't that concede that all of us,	这不承认我们所有人,
494	when we compete for positions or for seats in colleges and universities,	当我们竞相争夺职位或大学的席位,
495	in a way are being used, not judged,	某种意义上,人们正在使用,而不是判断,
496	but used in a way that has nothing to do with moral desert?	但用的方式与道德沙漠无关?
497	Remember we got into this whole discussion of affirmative action	记得我们开始讨论平权行动
498	when we were trying to figure out	当我们试图找出
499	whether distributive justice should be tied to moral desert or not.	分配正义是否应该与道德的荒漠联系在一起。
500	And we were launched on that question by Rawls and his denial,	我们被罗尔斯和他否认了
501	his rejection of the idea that distributive justice,	他拒绝分配公正的想法,
502	whether it's positions or places in the class or income and wealth,	无论是在阶级中的地位或位置,还是收入和财富,
503	is a matter of moral desert.	是一个道德的沙漠问题。
504	Suppose that were the moral basis of Harvard's admissions policy.	假设那是哈佛大学招生政策的道德基础
505	What letters would they have to write	他们要写什么信?
506	to people they rejected or accepted for that matter?	他们否认或接受此事的人,
507	Wouldn't they have to write something like this?	他们不用写这样的东西吗?
508	Dear unsuccessful applicant,	亲爱的失败的申请人,
509	we regret to inform you that your application for admission has been rejected.	我们遗憾地通知你你的入院申请被拒绝了
510	It's not your fault that when you came along,	这不是你的错当你来了,
511	society happened not to need the qualities you had to offer.	社会碰巧并不需要你必须提供的品质。
512	Those admitted instead of you were not themselves deserving of a place,	那些被接纳的人,而不是你们,是不配得来的,
513	nor worthy of praise for the factors that led to their admission.	也不值得称赞导致他们被接纳的因素。
514	We are in any case only using them and you as instruments of a wider social purpose.	无论如何,我们只是把他们和你们作为更广泛的社会工具。
515	Better luck next time.	祝你下次好运
516	What was the letter you actually got when you were admitted?	你被录取时收到的信是什么?
517	Perhaps it should have read something like this.	也许它应该读类似的东西。
518	Dear successful applicant,	亲爱的成功申请者,
519	we are pleased to inform you that your application for admission has been accepted.	我们高兴地通知你,你的入境申请已被接受。
520	It turns out, lucky for you,	原来你走运了
521	that you have the traits that society needs at the moment,	你拥有社会目前需要的特征,
522	so we propose to exploit your assets for society's advantage.	所以我们建议利用你们的资产来谋取社会利益
523	You are to be congratulated,	恭喜你们
524	not in the sense that you deserve credit for having the qualities that led to your admission,	并不是因为你拥有导致你入院的特质而值得表扬
525	but only in the sense that the winner of a lottery is to be congratulated,	但只是因为彩票的得奖者要受到祝贺
526	and if you choose to accept our offer,	如果你愿意接受我们的提议
527	you will ultimately be entitled to the benefits that attach to being used in this way.	您最终将有资格享受由此而获得的福利。
528	We look forward to seeing you in the fall.	我们期待着在秋季见到你。
529	Now, there is something a little odd, morally odd,	现在,有些东西有点奇怪,道德上有点奇怪,
530	if it's true that those letters do reflect the theory, the philosophy,	如果这些字母确实反映了理论和哲学
531	underlying the policy.	政策的基础。
532	So here's the question they pose,	这就是他们提出的问题,
533	and it's a question that takes us back to a big issue in political philosophy.	这个问题让我们回到政治哲学中的一个大问题。
534	Is it possible, and is it desirable,	可能吗,这是可取的,
535	to detach questions of distributive justice	解决分配公正问题
536	from questions of moral desert and questions of virtue?	道德荒漠和美德问题?
537	In many ways, this is an issue	在许多方面,这是一个问题
538	that separates modern political philosophy from ancient political thought.	将现代政治哲学与古代政治思想分开。
539	What's at stake in the question of whether we can put desert, moral desert aside?	我们是否可以把沙漠,道德沙漠放在一边,这有什么关系呢?
540	It seemed when we were reading Rawls	好像我们读罗尔斯的时候
541	that the incentive, the reason he had	奖励,他的原因
542	for detaching distributive justice from moral desert was an egalitarian one,	因为从道德的沙漠中分离出分配正义是平等的,
543	that if we set desert to one side,	如果我们把沙漠放在一边,
544	there's greater scope for the exercise of egalitarian considerations,	行使平等考虑的余地更大,
545	the veil of ignorance, the two principles, the difference principle,	无知的面纱两项原则区别原则
546	helping the least well off, redistribution and all that.	帮助最不富裕的人,再分配等等。
547	But what's interesting is if you look	但有趣的是,如果你看着
548	at a range of thinkers we've been considering,	在一系列思想家我们一直在考虑,
549	there does seem to be a reason they want to detach justice from desert	似乎有原因他们想要从沙漠中解放正义
550	that goes well beyond any concern for equality.	这远远超出了对平等的任何关注。
551	Libertarian rights oriented theorists	以自由主义权利为导向的理论家
552	of the kind we've been studying,	那种我们研究,
553	as well as egalitarian rights oriented theorists,	以及权利平等理论家,
554	including Rawls, and for that matter also including Kant,	包括Rawls 以及康德
555	all agree, despite their disagreements over distributive justice	所有人都同意,尽管他们对分配司法有分歧
556	and the welfare state and all of that,	以及福利状况和这一切,
557	they all agree	他们都同意
558	that justice is not a matter of rewarding	正义不是奖励
559	or honoring virtue or moral desert.	或尊重美德或道德的沙漠。
560	Now why do they all think that?	他们为什么都这么想?
561	It can't just be for egalitarian reasons,	不能只是因为平等的原因
562	not all of them are egalitarians.	并不是所有人都是平等的。
563	This gets us to the big philosophical question we have to try to sort out.	这让我们想到了我们想要解决的大哲学问题。
564	Somehow they think tying justice to moral merit or virtue	不知何故他们认为正义与道德或美德挂钩
565	is going to lead away from freedom,	将远离自由,
566	from respect for persons as free beings.	不尊重作为自由生命的人。
567	Well in order to see what they consider to be at stake,	为了了解他们认为的利害关系
568	and in order to assess their shared assumption,	为了评估它们的共同假设,
569	we need to turn to a thinker, to a philosopher,	我们需要转向思想家, 哲学家,
570	who disagrees with them,	他们和他们争论,
571	who explicitly ties justice to honor, honoring virtue	他们明确地将正义与荣誉联系起来,尊重美德
572	and merit and moral desert.	和功绩和道德的沙漠。
573	And that thinker is Aristotle.	那个思想家是亚里士多德
574	Now in many ways,	现在在许多方面,
575	Aristotle's idea of justice is intuitively very powerful.	亚里士多德的正义思想直觉上非常强大.
576	In some ways it's strange.	在某些方面,这是奇怪的。
577	I want to bring out both its power, its plausibility,	我想拿出它的力量,它的可信度,
578	and its strangeness,	和它的怪异,
579	so that we can see what's at stake in this whole debate about justice	这样我们就能看到这场关于正义的争论的利害关系
580	and whether it's tied to desert and virtue.	是否与沙漠和美德有关
581	So what is Aristotle's answer to the question about justice?	那么亚里士多德对正义问题的答案是什么?
582	For Aristotle, justice is a matter of giving people what they deserve,	对亚里士多德来说正义是给人们应有的
583	giving people their due.	给人们他们应得的。
584	It's a matter of figuring out the proper fit between persons with their virtues	问题是要找出人与人之间的适当合身
585	and their appropriate social roles.	及其适当的社会作用。
586	Well what does this picture of justice look like?	这幅正义的画是什么样子的?
587	And how does it differ from the conception	和这个概念有什么不同
588	that seems to be shared among libertarian and egalitarian	似乎在自由主义者和平等者之间
589	rights-oriented theorists alike?	以权利为导向的理论家?
590	Justice means giving each person his or her due,	正义意味着给予每个人他或她的权利,
591	giving people what they deserve.	给人们他们应得的。
592	But what is a person's due?	但一个人应该做什么?
593	What are the relevant grounds of merit or desert?	功绩或沙漠有哪些相关理由?
594	Aristotle says that depends on the sort of things being distributed.	亚里士多德说这取决于分布的种类。
595	Justice involves two factors,	司法涉及两个因素:
596	things and the persons to whom the things are assigned.	和被分配的人。
597	In general we say, Aristotle writes,	总的来说,我们说,亚里士多德写道,
598	that persons who are equal should have equal things assigned to them.	平等者应拥有平等的东西。
599	But here there arises a hard question.	但这里出现了一个难题。
600	Equals in what respects?	在什么方面是平等的?
601	Aristotle says that depends on the sort of thing we're distributing.	亚里士多德说这取决于我们分配的是什么
602	Suppose we're distributing flutes.	假设我们在分发笛子。
603	What is the relevant merit or basis of desert for flutes?	对于笛子来说,沙漠有什么相关优点或依据?
604	Who should get the best ones?	谁应该得到最好的?
605	What's Aristotle's answer? Anyone?	亚里士多德的答案是什么? 有人吗?
606	The best flute players, right.	最好的笛手,没错。
607	Those who are best in the relevant sense, the best flute players.	相关意义上最优秀的,最好的笛手.
608	Is it just to discriminate in allocating flutes?	在分配笛子方面是否只是歧视?
609	Yes, all justice involves discrimination, Aristotle says.	亚里士多德说,所有正义都涉及歧视。
610	What matters is that the discrimination be according to the relevant excellence,	重要的是歧视要符合相关的优异程度,
611	according to the virtue appropriate to having flutes.	根据与长笛相适应的美德
612	He says it would be unjust to discriminate on some other basis	他说歧视别人是不公平的
613	in giving out the flutes.	送出长笛。
614	Say wealth, just giving the best flutes to the people who can pay the highest price.	说财富,只是给那些能支付最高代价的人最好的笛子.
615	Or nobility of birth, just giving flutes to aristocrats.	或贵族出身,只是给贵族吹笛子.
616	Or physical beauty, giving the best flutes to the most handsome.	或体貌优美,给最帅的笛子.
617	Or chance, having a lottery.	或者机会,有彩票。
618	Aristotle says birth and beauty may be greater goods than the ability to play the flute.	亚里士多德说生与美可能是比吹笛能力更大的商品.
619	And those who possess them may surpass the flute player more in these qualities	那些拥有它们的人可能会在这些品质上超越笛手
620	than he surpasses them in his flute playing.	他的笛子弹得比他们还厉害
621	But the fact remains that he is the person who ought to get the best flute.	但事实仍然是,他应该得到最好的笛子。
622	It's a strange idea, this comparison by the way,	这是一个奇怪的想法, 这个比较的方式,
623	that could you say am I more handsome than she is a good lacrosse player?	你能说我比她还帅吗?
624	It's a strange kind of comparison.	比较起来很奇怪
625	But putting that aside, Aristotle says we're not looking for the best overall,	亚里士多德说我们不是在寻找最好的整体
626	whatever that might mean, we're looking for the best musician.	不管这是什么意思我们在找最好的音乐家
627	Now why, this is important to see, why should the best flutes go to the best flute players?	为什么,这很重要, 为什么要最好的笛子去最好的笛手?
628	Well, why do you think? Anybody?	你觉得呢? 有人吗?
629	What? They'll produce the best music, well, and everybody will enjoy it more.	你说什么? 他们将产生最好的音乐, 好了,每个人都会更享受它。
630	That's not Aristotle's answer.	这不是亚里士多德的答案。
631	Aristotle is not a utilitarian.	亚里士多德不是功利主义者.
632	He's not just saying that way there will be better music and everyone will enjoy it,	他不只是说这样会有更好的音乐每个人都会喜欢它,
633	everyone will be better off.	每个人都会更好。
634	His answer is the best flutes should go to the best flute players	他的答案是最好的笛子应该去最好的笛手
635	because that's what flutes are for, to be played well.	因为这就是笛子的用途被弹得好
636	The purpose of flute playing, the purpose is to produce excellent music	吹笛子的目的是为了制作优秀的音乐
637	and those who can best perfect that purpose ought properly to have the best ones.	并且那些最能完成这一目的的人应该有最好的目的。
638	Now it may also be true as a welcome side effect that everyone will enjoy listening to that music.	现在,作为受欢迎的副作用,每个人都会乐于聆听这种音乐。
639	So that answer is true enough as far as it goes,	因此,这个答案已经足够真实了,
640	but it's important to see that Aristotle's reason is not a utilitarian reason.	但重要的是要看到亚里士多德的理由并不是功利主义的理由.
641	It's a reason that looks, here's where you might think it's a little bit strange,	你可能觉得这有点奇怪
642	it looks to the purpose, the point, the goal of flute playing.	它着眼于吹笛的目的,重点,目标.
643	Another way of describing this, looking to the goal to determine the just allocation,	另一种方式描述这一点, 展望目标确定公正的分配,
644	the Greek for goal or end was telos.	目标或终点的希腊语是telos。
645	So Aristotle says you have to consider the point, the end, the goal, the telos of the thing,	亚里士多德说,你必须考虑这一点, 结束,目标, 事情的齿轮,
646	in this case of flute playing and that's how you define a just allocation, a just discrimination.	在吹笛子的情况下这就是你如何定义公正分配公正歧视
647	So this idea of reasoning from the goal, from the telos is called teleological reasoning,	因此,这个想法的推理从目标, 从telos称为遥测推理,
648	teleological moral reasoning and that's Aristotle's way, reasoning from the goal, from the end.	这是亚里士多德的方法, 从目标,从最后的推理。
649	Now this may seem, as I said, a strange idea that we're supposed to reason from the purpose,	现在,这看起来,正如我所说, 一个奇怪的想法,我们应该从目的出发,
650	but it does have a certain intuitive plausibility.	但它确实具有某种直觉性
651	Consider the allocation, let's say at Harvard, of the best tennis courts or squash courts.	考虑一下,比如在哈佛, 分配最好的网球场或壁球场。
652	How should they be allocated? Who should have priority in playing on the best courts?	如何分配这些资源? 在最佳法庭上谁应该有优先权?
653	Well, you might say those who can best afford them, set up a fee system, charge money for them.	你可以说那些最能负担他们的人, 建立一个收费制度,为他们收费。
654	Aristotle would say no. You might say, well, Harvard big shots, the most influential people at Harvard,	亚里士多德会拒绝的你可以说,哈佛大人物,哈佛最有影响力的人,
655	who would they be? The senior faculty should have priority.	他们会是谁? 高级教职员工应该有优先权.
656	The senior faculty should have priority in playing on the best tennis courts.	高级教职员工应优先在最佳网球场打球。
657	No, Aristotle would reject that.	不,亚里士多德会拒绝的
658	Some scientists may be a greater scientist than some varsity tennis player is a tennis player,	有些科学家可能比一些校队网球运动员更伟大的科学家,
659	but still the tennis player is the one who should have priority for the best, playing on the best tennis court.	但网球选手仍是最优秀的选手在最佳网球场上打球
660	There is a certain intuitive plausibility to this idea.	这个想法有一定的直观性。
661	Now, one of the things that makes it strange is that in Aristotle's world, in the ancient world,	在亚里士多德的世界里在古代的世界里
662	it wasn't only social practices that were governed, in Aristotle's view,	亚里士多德认为不仅仅是社会习俗被支配
663	by teleological reasoning and teleological explanation.	由心智推理和心智解释。
664	All of nature was understood to be a meaningful order,	所有自然被理解为一个有意义的秩序,
665	and what it meant to understand nature, to grasp nature, to find our place in nature,	以及它意味着什么理解自然, 理解自然, 找到我们在自然中的地位,
666	was to inquire into and read out the purposes or the telos of nature.	调查并宣读大自然的目的或主题。
667	And with the advent of modern science, it's been difficult to think of the world that way,	随着现代科学的到来, 很难想到这个世界,
668	and so it makes it harder, perhaps, to think of justice in a teleological way,	因此,它使得它更难,也许, 想到正义的方式,以心灵学,
669	but there is a certain naturalness to thinking about even the natural world as teleologically ordered,	但有某种自然性思考甚至自然世界以神学命令,
670	as a purpose of whole.	整个目的。
671	In fact, children have to be educated out of this way, of looking at the world.	事实上,儿童必须接受这种教育,从看世界的角度出发。
672	I realized this when my kids were very young and I was reading them a book.	我意识到,当我的孩子非常年轻, 我读他们一本书。
673	Winnie the Pooh.	荣耀维尼.
674	And Winnie the Pooh gives you a great idea of how there is a certain natural, childlike way	维尼的维尼给了你一个伟大的想法如何有一个自然的,孩子般的方式
675	of looking at the world in a teleological way.	以神智的方式看待世界
676	You may remember a story of Winnie the Pooh walking in the forest one day.	你可能记得有一天维尼在森林里散步的故事
677	He came to a place in the forest, and from the top of a tree there came a loud buzzing noise.	他来到了森林的一个地方, 从树顶上,有一个响亮的噪音。
678	Winnie the Pooh sat at the foot of the tree, put his head between his paws, and began to think.	维尼人坐在树脚下,把头放在爪子之间,开始思考.
679	Here's what he said to himself.	这就是他对自己说的话。
680	That buzzing noise means something.	那个叫声意味着什么
681	You don't get a buzzing noise like that just buzzing and buzzing without its meaning something.	你不会听到那种叫声只是叫声和叫声没有意义
682	If there's a buzzing noise, somebody's making a buzzing noise.	如果有嗡嗡声有人在发出嗡嗡声
683	The only reason for making a buzzing noise that I know of is because you're a bee.	我知道唯一能发出噪音的原因是因为你是蜜蜂
684	Then he thought for another long time and said,	然后他又想了很久然后说
685	and the only reason for being a bee that I know of is making honey.	而成为蜜蜂的唯一原因我知道是做蜂蜜。
686	And then he got up and he said,	然后他站起来说,
687	and the only reason for making honey is so I can eat it.	而制造蜂蜜的唯一理由就是让我能吃它
688	So he began to climb the tree.	于是他开始爬树.
689	This is an example of teleological reasoning.	这是心灵推理的一个例子。
690	It isn't so implausible after all.	毕竟也不是那么不可思议
691	Now, we grew up and we're talked out of this way of thinking about the world.	现在,我们长大了,我们被劝说脱离了这种对世界的思考.
692	But here's the question.	但问题是...
693	Even if teleological explanations don't fit with modern science,	即便心理解释与现代科学不符
694	even if we've outgrown them in understanding nature,	即使我们在了解自然方面超越了他们
695	isn't there something still intuitively and morally plausible, even powerful,	难道还有些东西直观和道德上是可信的,甚至强大,
696	about Aristotle's idea that the only way to think about justice	关于亚里士多德的想法即思考正义的唯一途径
697	is to reason from the purpose, the goal, the telos of the social practice,	从目的、目标、社会实践的动静
698	and isn't that precisely what we were doing when we were disagreeing about affirmative action?	这正是我们在平权行动问题上所要做的事吗?
699	You could almost recast that disagreement as one about what the proper,	你几乎可以把分歧重塑为关于什么是适当的,
700	appropriate purpose or end of a university education consists in.	大学教育的适当目的或目的包括:
701	Reasoning from the purpose or from the telos or from the end,	由于目的或从调音器或从结尾,
702	Aristotle says that's indispensable to thinking about justice.	亚里士多德说,这是思考正义所不可或缺的.
703	Is he right?	他说得对吗?
704	Think about that question as you turn to Aristotle's politics.	想想这个问题当你转向亚里士多德的政治。
705	Take a pop quiz, watch lectures you've missed, and learn a lot more.	参加一个流行测验, 看你错过的讲座, 并学习更多的。
706	请访问justiceharvard.org. 谓之正法.
707	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
708	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

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P8 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p08 7. 7.是否雇佣顶替自己服役的人 (P8)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p08 7. 7.是否雇佣顶替自己服役的人 (P8)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 55:10

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
0:06	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
0:31	When we ended last time, we were discussing Locke's idea of government by consent.	上次结束的时候,我们在讨论洛克关于同意政府的想法.
0:39	And the question arose, what are the limits on government that even the agreement of the majority can't override?	问题是,即使多数人同意也不能推翻政府,对政府的限制是什么?
0:49	That was the question we ended with.	这是我们最后的问题。
0:56	That's what we saw in the case of property rights.	这就是我们在财产权案中看到的。
1:02	That on Locke's view, a democratically elected government has the right to tax people.	洛克认为,民选政府有权向人民征税.
1:12	It has to be taxation with consent, because it does involve the taking of people's property for the common good.	它必须是经同意的税收,因为它确实涉及为共同利益而夺取人民的财产。
1:21	But it doesn't require the consent of each individual at the time the tax is enacted or collected.	但是,它并不要求每个个人在颁布或征收税款时的同意.
1:31	What it does require is a prior act of consent to join the society, to take on the political obligation.	它确实需要的是加入社会并承担政治义务的事先同意行为。

展开字幕全文（584 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
2	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
3	When we ended last time, we were discussing Locke's idea of government by consent.	上次结束的时候,我们在讨论洛克关于同意政府的想法.
4	And the question arose, what are the limits on government that even the agreement of the majority can't override?	问题是,即使多数人同意也不能推翻政府,对政府的限制是什么?
5	That was the question we ended with.	这是我们最后的问题。
6	That's what we saw in the case of property rights.	这就是我们在财产权案中看到的。
7	That on Locke's view, a democratically elected government has the right to tax people.	洛克认为,民选政府有权向人民征税.
8	It has to be taxation with consent, because it does involve the taking of people's property for the common good.	它必须是经同意的税收,因为它确实涉及为共同利益而夺取人民的财产。
9	But it doesn't require the consent of each individual at the time the tax is enacted or collected.	但是,它并不要求每个个人在颁布或征收税款时的同意.
10	What it does require is a prior act of consent to join the society, to take on the political obligation.	它确实需要的是加入社会并承担政治义务的事先同意行为。
11	But once you take on that obligation, you agree to be bound by the majority.	但一旦你承担了这项义务,你同意受多数的约束。
12	So much for taxation.	税费就够了
13	But what you may ask about the right to life, can the government conscript people and send them into battle?	但你可以问什么关于生命权, 政府征召人民并让他们投入战斗?
14	What about the idea that we own ourselves?	我们自己的想法呢?
15	Isn't the idea of self-possession violated if the government can, through coercive legislation and enforcement powers,	如果政府能够通过强制立法和执法权, 自我占有的想法不是受到侵犯吗?
16	say, you must go risk your life to fight in Iraq?	你要冒着生命危险去伊拉克打仗?
17	What would Locke say? Does the government have the right to do that?	洛克会怎么说? 政府有权这样做吗?
18	Yes.	对
19	In fact, he says in 139, he says,	事实上,他在139年说,
20	What matters is that the political authority or the military authority not be arbitrary.	重要的是,政治当局或军事当局不是任意的。
21	That's what matters.	这才是最重要的。
22	And he gives a wonderful example.	他给出了一个很好的例子。
23	He says a sergeant, even a sergeant, let alone a general, a sergeant can command a soldier to go right up to the face of the cannon,	他说一个军士,甚至一个军士, 更别说一个将军,一个军士可以命令一个士兵直上炮台,
24	where he is almost sure to die.	在那里他几乎肯定会死。
25	That the sergeant can do.	军士可以做的。
26	The general can condemn the soldier to death for deserting his post or for not obeying even a desperate order.	将军可以谴责士兵因逃避职务或甚至不服从绝望的命令而被处死.
27	But with all their power over life and death, what these officers can't do is take a penny of that soldier's money.	但是,用他们所有的力量生死,这些军官不能做的是拿走一分钱的士兵的钱。
28	Because that has nothing to do with the rightful authority.	因为这和合法权威无关
29	That would be arbitrary and it would be corrupt.	这样做是任意的,是腐败的。
30	So consent winds up being very powerful in Locke, not consent of the individual to the particular tax or military order,	因此,同意在洛克非常强大, 而不是个人同意特定税收或军事秩序,
31	but consent to join the government and to be bound by the majority in the first place.	但首先同意加入政府并受多数人的约束
32	That's the consent that matters.	这才是最重要的同意
33	And it matters so powerfully that even the limited government created by the fact that we have an unalienable right to life, liberty and property,	即使是我们拥有生命、自由和财产不容剥夺的权利所建立的有限政府
34	even that limited government is only limited in the sense that it has to govern by generally applicable laws, the rule of law, it can't be arbitrary.	即使这种有限的政府也只是从它必须受普遍适用的法律,法治的支配这个意义上来说是有限的,也不能是任意的.
35	That's Locke.	这是洛克。
36	Well, this raises a question about consent.	这引起了同意的问题
37	Why is consent such a powerful moral instrument in creating political authority and the obligation to obey?	为什么同意是建立政治权威和服从义务的强大道德工具?
38	Today we begin to investigate the question of consent by looking at a concrete case, the case of military conscription.	今天,我们开始调查同意问题,研究一个具体案例,即征兵问题。
39	Some people say if we have a fundamental right that arises from the idea that we own ourselves,	有些人说,如果我们有一个基本权利由我们自己的想法产生,
40	it's a violation of that right for a government to conscript citizens to go fight in wars.	这侵犯了政府征召公民参战的权利。
41	Others disagree. Others say that's a legitimate power of government, of democratically elected governments anyhow, and that we have an obligation to obey.	其他人则不同意。其他人说,这是政府的合法权力,不管怎样,是民选政府的合法权力,我们有义务服从.
42	Let's take the case of the United States fighting a war in Iraq.	以美国在伊拉克作战为例.
43	News accounts tell us that the military is having great difficulty meeting its recruitment targets.	新闻报导告诉我们,军方很难达到招募目标。
44	Consider three policies that the U.S. government might undertake to deal with the fact that it's not achieving its recruiting targets.	考虑美国政府可能采取的三项政策,以应对它没有达到招募目标的事实.
45	Solution number one, increase the pay and benefits to attract a sufficient number of soldiers.	第一解决方案,增加工资和福利,吸引足够的士兵.
46	Option number two, shift to a system of military conscription.	第二选择,转向征兵制度。
47	Have a lottery, and whosoever numbers are drawn, go to fight in Iraq.	有彩票,无论谁抽到数字,都去伊拉克战斗。
48	System number three, outsource. Hire what traditionally have been called mercenaries.	系统三号,外包。雇用传统上称为雇佣军的人。
49	People around the world who are qualified, able to do the work, able to fight well, and who are willing to do it for the existing wage.	全世界有资质,能干功劳,能打得好,愿意为现有工资而干的人.
50	So let's take a quick poll here. How many favor increasing the pay?	因此,让我们在这里做一个快速的民意调查。多少人喜欢增加工资?
51	Huge majority. How many favor going to conscription?	绝对是多数征召多少人?
52	All right, maybe a dozen people in the room favor conscription. What about the outsourcing solution?	好吧,也许一打人在房间里赞成征兵。那外包方案呢?
53	Okay, so there may be about two, three dozen.	好吧,大概有两,三打。
54	During the Civil War, the Union used a combination of conscription and the market system to fill the ranks of the military to fight in the Civil War.	国共内战期间,同盟会采用征兵制和市场制相结合的办法,填补军队的队伍,参加国共内战的战斗.
55	It was a system that began with conscription, but if you were drafted and didn't want to serve, you could hire a substitute to take your place.	这是一个从征兵开始的制度,但是如果你是被征召而不愿服役,你可以雇一个替补来代替你.
56	And many people did. You could pay whatever the market required in order to find a substitute.	很多人都这样你可以为寻找替代品而支付任何市场所需的费用。
57	People ran ads in newspapers, in the classified ads, offering five hundred dollars, sometimes a thousand dollars, for a substitute who would go fight the Civil War in their place.	人们在报纸上,在分类广告中跑广告, 提供500美元,有时是1000美元, 一个替补谁去打内战代替他们。
58	In fact, it's reported that Andrew Carnegie was drafted and hired a substitute to take his place for an amount that was a little less than the amount he spent in a year on fancy cigars.	事实上,有报道称安德鲁·卡内基被征召并聘请了一位替补来接替他的位置,其金额略低于他在一年中花在花样雪茄上的金额.
59	Now, I want to get your views about the Civil War system. Call it the hybrid system, conscription but with a buyout provision.	我想了解你对内战制度的看法称之为混合制,征兵制但有一个买断条款。
60	How many think it was a just system? How many would defend the Civil War system?	有多少人认为这是一个公正的制度? 有多少人会保卫内战系统?
61	Anybody? One, anybody else? Two, three, four, five. How many think it was unjust?	有人吗? 一个,还有谁? 二三四五门. 有多少人认为这是不公正的?
62	Most of you don't like the Civil War system. You think it's unjust. Let's hear an objection. Why don't you like it? What's wrong with it?	你们大多不喜欢内战制度你觉得这不公平吗? 让我们听到一个反对。何故不乐. 有什么不对吗?
63	Yes?	是吗?
64	Well, by paying three hundred dollars to be exempt one time around, you're really putting a price on valuing human life.	好吧,通过支付300美元作为豁免一次左右, 你真的付出了价值人的生命。
65	And we established earlier that's really hard to do. So they're trying to accomplish something that really isn't feasible.	我们早点建立,这真的很难做到。所以他们想完成一些真正不可行的事情。
66	Good. So paying someone three hundred or five hundred or a thousand dollars...	不错因此,支付一个人 300或500或1000美元...
67	You're basically saying that's what their life is worth to you.	你根本就是说他们的生命对你来说是值得的
68	That's what their life is worth. It's putting a dollar value on life. That's good. And what's your name?	这就是他们生命的价值。令众生得一钱. 这是很好的。你叫什么来着?
69	Liz.	丽兹
70	Liz. Well, who has an answer for Liz? You defended the Civil War system. What do you say?	丽兹谁知道丽兹的答案? 你为内战制度辩护你说什么?
71	If you don't like the price, then you have the freedom to not be sold or hired. So it's completely up to you.	如果你不喜欢价格,那么你就有不被出售或雇用的自由. 所以这完全取决于你。
72	And I don't think it's necessarily putting a specific price on you. And if it's done by himself, I don't think there's anything necessarily morally wrong with that.	我也不认为这会让你付出具体的代价如果这是他自己做的,我觉得这在道德上没有必然的错.
73	So the person who takes the five hundred dollars, let's say, he's putting his own price on his life or on the risk of his life.	故取五百元者,如是,自以命价,或以命险.
74	And he should have the freedom to choose to do that.	他应该有选择这样做的自由。
75	Exactly.	没错
76	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
77	Jason.	贾森
78	Jason. Thank you. Now we need to hear from another critic of the Civil War system. Yes.	贾森谢谢现在我们需要听到另一位内战制度的批评者。对
79	It's a kind of coercion, almost, to people who have lower incomes. For Carnegie, he can totally ignore the draft.	这几乎是一种对低收入者的胁迫。对卡内基来说,他完全可以忽略草案.
80	Three hundred dollars is irrelevant in terms of his income. For someone of a lower income, they're essentially being coerced to be drafted.	三百元与其收入无关. 对于收入较低的人来说,他们基本上是被胁迫被征召的.
81	Or, I mean, it's probably they're not able to find a replacement.	或者,我的意思是,这可能是他们找不到替代。
82	Tell me your name.	告诉我你的名字。
83	Sam.	萨姆
84	Sam. All right. So you say, Sam, that when a poor laborer accepts three hundred dollars to fight in the Civil War, he is in effect being coerced by that money, given his economic circumstances.	萨姆好吧,我们走。你说,山姆,当一个穷苦的工人接受三百美元在内战中作战时, 他实际上是被那笔钱胁迫的, 考虑到他的经济状况。
85	Because Carnegie can go off, pay the money, and not serve.	因为卡内基可以去,支付钱,而不是服务。
86	All right. I want to hear if someone has a reply to Sam's argument that what looks like a free exchange is actually coercive.	好吧,我们走。我想听听如果有人对山姆的论调有回应,认为看起来自由交换其实是胁迫性的.
87	Who has an answer to Sam? Go ahead.	谁对萨姆有答案? 来吧。
88	I'd actually agree with him in saying that.	我同意他这么说
89	You agree with Sam?	你同意山姆的话吗?
90	I agree with him in saying that it is coercion in the sense that it robs an individual of his ability to reason.	我同意他说,这是胁迫,因为它剥夺了个人的理性能力。
91	Okay. And what's your name?	摆你叫什么来着?
92	Raoul.	拉乌尔
93	All right. So Raoul and Sam agree that what looks like a free exchange, free choice, voluntary act, is actually, it involves coercion.	好吧,我们走。所以拉乌尔和萨姆都同意,看起来像是自由交换,自由选择,自愿的行为,其实是涉及胁迫.
94	It's profound coercion of the worst kind because it falls so disproportionately upon one segment of the society.	这是最恶劣的深层胁迫因为它不成比例地落在社会的一个阶层身上
95	All right. So Raoul and Sam have made a powerful point. Who would like to reply? Who has an answer for Sam and Raoul? Go ahead.	好吧,我们走。因此,拉乌尔和萨姆提出了强有力的观点. 谁想回答? 谁有山姆和拉乌尔的答案? 来吧。
96	I just, I don't think that these drafting systems are really terribly different from, you know, all volunteer army sort of recruiting strategies.	我只是,我不认为这些起草系统与所有志愿军的招募策略有很大不同。
97	The whole idea of, you know, having benefits and pay for joining the army is, you know, sort of a coercive strategy to get people to join.	拥有参军福利和报酬的整个想法是一种强迫性策略让人们加入
98	It is true that military volunteers come from disproportionately, you know, lower economic status and also, you know,	确实,军事志愿者来自不成比例的,你知道的, 较低的经济地位, 而且,你知道,
99	from certain regions of the country where you can use like the patriotism to try and coerce people to feel like it's the right thing to do to volunteer and go over to Iraq.	从这个国家的某些地区,你可以像爱国主义者一样, 试图强迫人们, 觉得这是应该做的志愿工作,然后去伊拉克。
100	And tell me your name.	告诉我你的名字。
101	Emily.	艾米丽。
102	All right. Emily says, and Raoul, you're going to have to reply to this, so get ready.	好吧,我们走。艾米丽说,和拉乌尔, 你必须回答这一点, 所以准备。
103	Emily says, fair enough, there is a coercive element to the civil war system when the laborer takes the place of Andrew Carnegie for $500.	艾米丽说,很公平,当劳工以500美元取代安德鲁·卡内基时,内战系统就有强制因素.
104	Emily concedes that. But she says, if that troubles you about the civil war system, shouldn't that also trouble you about the volunteer army today?	艾米莉承认这一点。但她说,如果这困扰你关于内战系统, 不应该这也困扰你关于志愿军今天?
105	And let me, before you answer, how did you vote on the first poll? Did you defend the volunteer army?	在你回答之前,让我来,你是怎么投票的? 你保护志愿军了吗?
106	I didn't vote.	我没有投票
107	You didn't vote? By the way, you didn't vote? Did you sell your vote to the person sitting next to you? No. All right.	你没投票? 对了,你没有投票? 你把你的选票卖给坐在你旁边的人了吗? 不,没关系。
108	So what would you say to that argument?	那么,你会对这个争论说什么?
109	I think that the circumstances are different and that there was conscription in the civil war.	我认为情况不同,内战中有征兵制度。
110	There is no draft today. And I think that the volunteers for the army today have a more profound sense of patriotism that is of an individual choice than those who were forced into the military in the civil war.	今天没有草案。我认为,今天为军队服务的志愿者们,比那些在内战中被迫参军的人,有更深刻的爱国感,是个人选择的.
111	Somehow less coerced.	不知何故,不那么被胁迫。
112	Less coerced.	少为逼迫.
113	Even though there is still inequality in American society, even though, as Emily points out, the makeup of the American military is not reflective of the population as a whole.	尽管美国社会仍然存在着不平等,尽管正如艾米莉指出的,美国军队的构成并不反映整个人口.
114	Let's just do an experiment here. How many here have either served in the military or have a family member who has served in the military?	我们在这里做个实验这里有多少人在军队服役或有家庭成员在军队服役?
115	In this generation. Not parents. Family members. In this generation.	此辈中. 不为父母. 诸眷属. 此辈中.
116	And how many have neither served nor have any brothers or sisters who have served?	有多少人没有服务过,也没有任何兄弟姐妹服务过?
117	Does that bear out your point, Emily?	Emily 这证明了你的观点吗?
118	All right. Now we need, we need to hear from, most of you defended the idea of the, of the all-volunteer military, overwhelmingly.	好吧,我们走。现在我们需要,我们需要听到, 从,你们大多数人捍卫的想法, 全志愿军,压倒一切。
119	And yet, overwhelmingly, people considered the civil war system unjust.	然而,绝大多数人认为内战制度是不公正的。
120	Sam and Raoul articulated reasons for objecting to the civil war system.	Sam和Raoul阐述了反对内战制度的理由。
121	It took place against a background of inequality, and therefore the choices people made to buy their way into military service were not truly free, but at least partly coerced.	这是在不平等的背景下发生的,因此人们为买进军队服役所作的选择并非真正自由,至少是部分被胁迫。
122	Then, Emily extends that argument in the form of a challenge.	然后,艾米莉以挑战的形式扩展了这一论点.
123	All right. Everyone here who voted in favor of the all-volunteer army should be able, should have to explain, well, what's the difference in principle?	好吧,我们走。在座的每一位投票支持全志愿军的,都应该能够,应该解释,在原则上有什么区别?
124	Doesn't the all-volunteer army simply universalize the feature that almost everyone found objectionable in the civil war buyout provision?	全志愿军是不是简单地普及了几乎每个人都认为内战买断条款中反对的特征?
125	Did I state the challenge fairly, Emily?	艾米丽,我说得没错吗?
126	Yes.	对
127	Okay. So we need to hear from a defender of the all-volunteer military who can address Emily's challenge. Who can do that?	摆所以我们需要听到一个全志愿军的捍卫者他能够应对艾米莉的挑战。谁能如此?
128	Go ahead.	来吧。
129	The difference between the, the civil war system and the all-volunteer army system is that in the civil war, you're being hired not by the government, but by an individual.	内战制度和全志愿军制度的区别在于,在内战中,你受雇的不是政府,而是个人.
130	And, and as a result, different people who get hired by different individuals get paid different amounts.	而且,因此,被不同个人雇用的不同的人得到不同的报酬。
131	In the case of the all-volunteer army, everyone who gets hired is hired by the government and gets paid the same amount.	以全志愿军为例,凡受聘之人,皆为政府所聘,所得亦同.
132	It's precisely the universalization of essentially paying your service, you're paying your way into the army that makes the all-volunteer army just...	正是普遍基本上支付你的服务, 你支付你的方式进入军队,
133	Emily?	艾米丽?
134	I guess I'd frame the principle difference slightly differently.	我想我会把原则区别设计得有点不同
135	On the all-volunteer army, it's possible for somebody to just, you know, step aside and not really think about, you know, the war at all.	在全自愿的军队中, 任何人都有可能, 你知道,站到一边, 而不是真正想, 你知道,战争。
136	It's possible to say, well, I, I don't need the money, you know, I don't need to have an opinion about this.	可以说,嗯,我,我不需要钱, 你知道,我不需要对此有意见。
137	I don't need to, you know, feel obligated to take my part and defend my country.	我不需要,你知道, 感到有义务承担我的角色和捍卫我的国家。
138	With a coercive system or, sorry, with an explicit draft, then, you know, there's the threat at least that every individual will have to make some sort of decision, you know,	有强制系统,或者,对不起,有明确的草案, 那么,你知道,有一个威胁,至少每个人都会做出某种决定,你知道,
139	regarding military conscription and, you know, perhaps in that way it's more equitable.	关于征兵,你知道的,也许这样比较公平。
140	You know, it's true that, you know, Andrew Carnegie might not serve in any case, but in one, you know, he can completely step aside from it.	你知道,这是真的,你知道,安德鲁·卡内基可能不会在任何情况下服务, 但在一个,你知道,他可以完全走出它。
141	In the other, there's some level of responsibility.	另一方面,也有一定程度的责任.
142	While you're there, Emily, so what system do you favor? Conscription?	当你在那里,艾米丽, 所以你喜欢什么系统? 征兵?
143	I would be hard-pressed to say, but I think so, because it makes the whole country feel a sense of responsibility for the conflict instead of, you know,	我很难说, 但我想是的, 因为它使整个国家感到对冲突的责任感而不是,你知道,
144	having a war that's maybe ideologically supported by a few, but only if there's no, you know, real responsibility.	一场战争,也许在意识形态上得到少数人的支持, 但只有没有,你知道,真正的责任。
145	Good. Who wants to reply? Go ahead.	不错谁想回答? 来吧。
146	So I was going to say that the fundamental difference between the all-volunteer army and then the army in the Civil War is that in the all-volunteer army,	所以我想说,在内战中,全志愿军和后来的军队的根本区别是,在全志愿军中,
147	if you want to volunteer, that comes first, and then the pay comes after, whereas in the Civil War system,	如果你想志愿工作,那首先,然后是报酬, 而内战制度,
148	the people who are accepting the pay aren't necessarily doing it because they want to, they're just doing it for the money first.	那些接受报酬的人不一定是因为他们想这么做他们只是为了钱
149	What motivation beyond the pay do you think is operating in the case of the all-volunteer army?	你认为对于全志愿军来说,除了工资之外还有什么动机?
150	Like patriotism for the country.	如爱国为国.
151	Patriotism. Well, what about?	爱国主义. 那么,怎么样?
152	And a desire to defend the country. I mean, there is some motivation in pay,	及欲护国. 我的意思是,有某种动力的薪酬,
153	but the fact that it's first and foremost an all-volunteer army will motivate them, I think, personally.	但事实上它首先是一支全志愿军将会激励他们,我认为,个人。
154	Do you think it's better, and tell me your name. Jackie.	你觉得这样更好吗告诉我你的名字城
155	Jackie, do you think it's better if people serve in the military out of a sense of patriotism than just for the money?	杰基,你觉得人们在军队中服役是出于爱国感比为了钱好吗?
156	Yes, definitely, because the people who, that was one of the main problems in the Civil War army,	是的,肯定的,因为人民谁,这是内战军队的主要问题之一,
157	is that the people that you're getting to go in it, or to go to war, aren't necessarily people who want to fight,	你所要加入的人或参战的人不一定是想参战的人
158	and so they won't be as good soldiers as they will be had they been there because they want it to be.	他们不会像他们那样优秀的士兵,因为他们希望这样。
159	All right, what about Jackie's, having raised the question of patriotism?	好吧那Jackie的呢提出了爱国主义的问题
160	That patriotism is a better or a higher motivation than money for military service.	这种爱国主义的动机比服兵役的钱更好或更高。
161	Who would like to address that question? Go ahead.	谁想谈这个问题? 来吧。
162	Patriotism absolutely is not necessary in order to be a good soldier,	爱国是绝对没有必要的为了成为一个好士兵,
163	because mercenaries can do just as good of a job as anyone who waves the American flag around	因为雇佣兵可以做一个工作就像任何挥动美国国旗的人一样
164	and wants to defend what the government believes that we should do.	并且想为政府认为我们应该做的辩护
165	Did you favor the outsourcing solution?	你赞成外包办法吗?
166	Yes, sir.	是长官
167	And, all right, so let Jackie respond. What's your name?	好吧,让杰基回答你叫什么来着?
168	Philip.	飞利浦.
169	What about that, Jackie? So much for patriotism.	怎么样,杰基? 爱国主义就够了
170	If you've got someone whose heart is in it more than another person, they're going to do a better job.	如果你的心比别人更强他们就会做得更好
171	When it comes down to the wire and there's like a situation in which someone has to put their life on the line,	当它下到电线, 并有类似的情况某人不得不将其生命上线,
172	someone who's doing it because they love this country will be more willing to go into danger than someone who's just getting paid.	那些因为热爱这个国家而这么做的人会比刚刚拿到报酬的人更愿意陷入危险
173	They don't care. They've got the technical skills, but they don't care what happens	他们不在乎。他们有技术,但他们不在乎会发生什么
174	because they really have nothing invested in this country.	因为他们真的没有投资在这个国家。
175	There's another aspect, though. Once we get onto the issue of patriotism,	还有另一个方面一旦我们谈到爱国主义的问题
176	if you believe patriotism, as Jackie does, should be the foremost consideration and not money,	如果你相信爱国主义,像杰基一样, 应该成为首要考虑而不是金钱,
177	does that argue for or against the paid army we have now?	这是否代表着现在的有薪军队?
178	We call it the volunteer army, though if you think about it, that's a kind of misnomer.	我们称它为志愿军,不过如果你考虑一下,那是种错误。
179	A volunteer army, as we use the term, is a paid army.	志愿军,在我们使用这个词的时候,是一支有报酬的军队.
180	So what about the suggestion that patriotism should be the primary motivation for military service, not money?	那么,关于爱国主义应该是兵役的首要动机而不是金钱的建议呢?
181	Does that argue in favor of the paid military that we have, or does it argue for conscription?	这是赞成我们拥有的军饷,还是主张征兵?
182	And just to sharpen that point, building on Phil's case for outsourcing,	为了突出这一点根据菲尔的外包案例
183	if you think that the all-volunteer army, the paid army, is best because it lets the market allocate positions	如果你认为全志愿军,有薪军是最好的,因为它让市场分配位置
184	according to people's preferences and willingness to serve for a certain wage,	根据人们的偏好和愿意服务以获得一定的工资,
185	doesn't the logic that takes you from a system of conscription to the hybrid civil war system,	逻辑上你不是从征兵制度到混合内战制度
186	to the all-volunteer army, doesn't the idea of expanding freedom of choice in the market,	对全志愿军来说,这不是扩大市场选择自由的想法,
187	doesn't that lead you all the way, if you follow that principle consistently, to a mercenary army?	这难道不带你一路, 如果你坚持这一原则, 雇佣军军队?
188	And then if you say no, Jackie says no, patriotism should count for something.	如果你说不,杰基说不爱国主义应该算什么
189	Doesn't that argue for going back to conscription, if by patriotism you mean a sense of civic obligation?	如果爱国主义意味着公民义务感,那难道不认为要重新征兵吗?
190	Let's see if we can step back from the discussion that we've had.	让我们看看我们能不能从我们的讨论中退一步。
191	And see what we've learned about consent as it applies to market exchange.	看看我们在同意方面学到了什么,因为它适用于市场交易。
192	We've really heard two arguments, two arguments against the use of markets and exchange	我们确实听到两个论点,两个反对利用市场和交换的论点
193	in the allocation of military service.	在兵役分配方面。
194	One was the argument raised by Sam and Raoul, the argument about coercion.	其中一个是Sam和Raoul提出的论点,关于胁迫的论点。
195	The objection that letting the market allocate military service may be unfair and may not even be free	允许市场分配兵役可能不公平,甚至可能不自由
196	if there's severe inequality in the society, so that people who buy their way into military service	如果社会上存在严重的不平等,那么那些买进军队的人
197	are doing so not because they really want to, but because they have so few economic opportunities	他们这样做不是因为他们真的想要, 而是因为他们的经济机会如此之少
198	that that's their best choice.	这是他们最好的选择。
199	And Sam and Raoul say there's an element of coercion in that.	萨姆和拉乌尔说,这里面有强制的因素.
200	That's one argument.	这是一个争论。
201	Then there is a second objection to using the market to allocate military service.	然后,有人第二次反对利用市场分配兵役。
202	That's the idea that military service shouldn't be treated as just another job for pay	这样一来,兵役不应该被当做又一份薪水工作
203	because it's bound up with patriotism and civic obligation.	因为它与爱国主义和公民义务联系在一起。
204	This is a different argument from the argument about unfairness and inequality and coercion.	这与关于不公平、不平等和胁迫的论点不同。
205	It's an argument that suggests that maybe where civic obligations are concerned,	这个论点表明也许在公民义务方面
206	we shouldn't allocate duties and rights by the market.	我们不应该分配责任和权利在市场。
207	Now, we've identified two broad objections.	现在,我们已经确定了两个广泛的反对意见。
208	What do we need to know to assess those objections?	我们需要知道什么来评估这些反对意见?
209	To assess the first, the argument from coercion, inequality and unfairness, Sam,	为了评估第一点,即来自胁迫、不平等和不公平的论点,Sam,
210	we need to ask what inequalities in the background conditions of society	我们需要问一下社会背景条件的不平等
211	undermine the freedom of choices people make to buy and sell their labor?	破坏人们为买卖劳动力所作的选择的自由?
212	Question number one.	问曰.
213	Question number two, to assess the civic obligation patriotism argument,	问题二评估公民义务爱国论
214	we have to ask what are the obligations of citizenship?	我们必须问公民的义务是什么?
215	Is military service one of them or not?	兵役是其中之一吗?
216	What obligates us as citizens, what is the source of political obligation?	作为公民,我们负有什么义务? 政治义务的来源是什么?
217	Is it consent or are there some civic obligations we have,	是同意还是有些公民义务?
218	even without consent, for living and sharing in a certain kind of society?	即使没有征得同意,在某种社会中生活和分享?
219	We haven't answered either of those questions,	我们两个都没回答
220	but our debate today about the civil war system and the all-volunteer army	但我们今天关于内战制度和全志愿军的辩论
221	has at least raised them, and those are questions we're going to return to in the coming weeks.	至少已经提出了它们, 这些都是我们将要在未来几周中回到的问题。
222	Do you think you should be able to bid for a baby that's up for adoption?	你觉得你应该买个要领养的孩子吗?
223	That's Andrew's challenge.	这是安德鲁的挑战。
224	Do I think I should be able to bid for a baby?	我想我应该能买到孩子吗?
225	I'm not sure.	我不太确定说不定
226	It's a market.	这是一个市场。
227	Today I'd like to turn our attention and get your views	今天我想转过头来听听你的看法
228	about an argument over the role of markets in the realm of human reproduction and procreation.	关于市场在人类生殖和生殖领域作用的争论。
229	Now with infertility clinics, people advertise for egg donors,	现在在不孕症诊所人们为捐蛋者做广告
230	and from time to time in the Harvard Crimson, ads appear for egg donors.	并且不时在哈佛Crimson杂志上,为鸡蛋捐献者登广告.
231	Have you seen them?	你见过他们吗?
232	There was one that ran a few years ago that wasn't looking for just any egg donor.	几年前有一次跑步不是为了寻找任何捐蛋者
233	It was an ad that offered a large financial incentive for an egg donor	广告给一个捐蛋者带来了巨大的经济刺激
234	from a woman who was intelligent, athletic, at least 5 foot 10,	从一个聪明,运动, 至少5英尺10,
235	and with at least 1,400 or above on her SATs.	她的SAT成绩至少是1400或1400以上
236	How much do you think the person looking for this egg donor	你觉得找这个捐蛋者要多少钱?
237	was willing to pay for an egg from a woman of that description?	愿意从那个女人那里买蛋吗?
238	What would you guess? $1,000? $15,000? $10,000?	你猜怎么着? 1000美元 15 000美元 10 000美元吗
239	I'll show you the ad.	我给你看广告
240	$50,000 for an egg.	鸡蛋五万块
241	But only a premium egg.	但只吃个热蛋
242	What do you think about that?	你觉得怎么样?
243	Well, there are also sometimes ads in the Harvard Crimson and other college newspapers for sperm donors.	嗯,有时哈佛大学和其他大学的报纸上也有给精子捐献者的广告
244	So the market in reproductive capacities is an equal opportunity market.	因此,生殖能力市场是一个平等机会市场。
245	Well, not exactly equal opportunity. They're not offering $50,000 for sperm.	机会并不均等他们不给精子5万元
246	But there is a company, a large commercial sperm bank,	但有一个公司, 一个大型的商业精子银行,
247	that markets sperm. It's called California Cryobank.	销售精子。其名称取自加利福尼亚州Cryobank.
248	It's a for-profit company.	以利为业.
249	It imposes exacting standards on the sperm it recruits.	它对其招募的精子规定了严格的标准。
250	And it has offices in Cambridge between Harvard and MIT and in Palo Alto near Stanford.	并在剑桥的哈佛和麻省理工学院之间以及斯坦福附近的帕洛阿尔托设有办事处.
251	Cryobank's marketing materials play up the prestigious source of its sperm.	Cryobank的销售材料充斥着它的精子的著名来源
252	这是Cryobank网站上的信息
253	Here they talk about the compensation.	他们在这里谈论补偿。
254	Although compensation should not be the only reason for becoming a sperm donor,	虽然补偿不应该是成为精子捐献者的唯一原因,
255	we are aware of the considerable time and expense involved in being a donor.	我们意识到,作为捐助国需要花费大量时间和开支。
256	So do you know what they offer?	你知道他们提供什么吗?
257	Donors will be reimbursed $75 per specimen,	每样75美元
258	up to $900 a month if you donate three times a week.	每月最多900美元如果你每周捐赠三次
259	And then they add, we periodically offer incentives such as movie tickets	然后他们又说,我们定期提供奖励比如电影票
260	or gift certificates for the extra time and effort expended by participating donors.	或关于参与捐助者所花额外时间和努力的礼品证书。
261	It's not easy to be a sperm donor.	当精液捐献者不易.
262	They accept fewer than 5% of the donors who apply.	申请的捐助者不到5%。
263	Their admission criteria are more demanding than Harvard's.	他们的录取标准比哈佛更严格.
264	The head of the sperm bank said the ideal sperm donor is six feet tall,	精子库的负责人说理想的精子捐献者高六英尺
265	with a college degree, brown eyes, blonde hair and dimples.	有大学学位,棕色的眼睛, 金发和酒窝。
266	For the simple reason that these are the traits that the market has shown the customers want.	简单的理由是,这些是市场显示客户想要的特征。
267	Quoting the head of the sperm bank,	引用精子库的负责人,
268	if our customers wanted high school dropouts, we would give them high school dropouts.	如果我们的顾客想要高中辍学, 我们会给他们高中辍学。
269	So here are two instances, the market in eggs for donation and the market in sperm,	这里有两个例子: 捐卵市场和精子市场
270	that raise a question.	这引起了一个问题。
271	A question about whether eggs and sperm should or should not be bought and sold for money.	关于鸡蛋和精子是否应该为了钱而买卖的问题.
272	As you ponder that, I want you to consider another case involving market	想想看,我要你再考虑一起涉及市场的案子
273	and in fact a contract in the human reproductive capacity.	事实上是人类生殖能力的契约
274	And this is the case of commercial surrogate motherhood.	这就是商业代孕母亲的情况。
275	And it's a case that wound up in court some years ago.	这案子是几年前在法庭上结的
276	It's the story of Baby M.	这是婴儿M的故事。
277	It began with William and Elizabeth Stern, a professional couple, wanting a baby,	一开始是威廉和伊丽莎白・斯特恩职业夫妇想要个孩子
278	but they couldn't have one on their own, at least not without medical risk to Mrs. Stern.	但他们不能自己拥有一个至少不给斯特恩夫人带来医疗风险
279	They went to an infertility clinic where they met Marybeth Whitehead,	他们去了一个不孕症诊所在那里他们遇到了玛丽贝丝·怀特黑德,
280	a 29-year-old mother of two, the wife of a sanitation worker.	29岁的母亲两个, 一个卫生工人的妻子。
281	She had replied to an ad that the center had placed, seeking the service of a surrogate mother.	她答复了中心张贴的广告,寻求代孕母亲的服务。
282	They made a deal.	他们做了个交易
283	They signed a contract in which William Stern agreed to pay Marybeth Whitehead a $10,000 fee,	他们签了一份合同威廉·斯特恩同意向玛丽贝斯·怀特黑德支付一万美元的费用
284	plus all expenses, in exchange for which Marybeth Whitehead agreed to be artificially inseminated	再加上所有费用作为交换玛丽贝丝·怀特黑德同意人工注射
285	with William Stern's sperm to bear the child and then to give the baby to the Sterns.	带着威廉·斯特恩的精子生孩子,然后把孩子交给斯特恩夫妇.
286	Well, you probably know how the story unfolded.	嗯,你也许知道故事是如何展开的。
287	Marybeth gave birth and changed her mind.	玛丽贝斯生下孩子,改变了主意.
288	She decided she wanted to keep the baby.	她决定要保留孩子
289	The case wound up in court in New Jersey.	案件在新泽西州的法庭上结束.
290	Let's put aside any legal questions and focus on this issue as a moral question.	让我们把任何法律问题放在一边,把这个问题作为道德问题来集中考虑.
291	How many believe that the right thing to do in the Baby M case would have been to uphold the contract,	有多少人相信在Baby M案中正确的做法是维持合同
292	to enforce the contract?	执行合同?
293	And how many think the right thing to do would have been not to enforce that contract?	有多少人认为不该执行这份合同?
294	The majority say enforce.	多数人说执行。
295	Let's now hear the reasons that people had, either for enforcing or refusing to enforce this contract.	让我们来听听人们有执行或拒绝执行这个合同的原因。
296	First, I want to hear from someone in the majority.	首先,我想听到多数人的声音。
297	Why do you uphold the contract?	你为什么坚持合同?
298	Why do you enforce it?	为什么要强制执行它?
299	Who can offer a reason?	谁能提供理由?
300	Yes.	对
301	Stand up.	站起来
302	It's a binding contract.	这是一份具有约束力的合同。
303	All the parties involved knew the terms of the contract before any action was taken.	所有有关当事方在采取任何行动之前都知道合同的条款。
304	It's a voluntary agreement.	自愿协议.
305	The mother knew what she was getting into.	母亲知道她要卷入什么
306	All four, intelligent adults, regardless of formal education, whatever.	四者,聪明的成年人,不论正规教育,无论什么.
307	So it makes sense that if you know what you're getting into beforehand and you make a promise,	所以,这是有道理的,如果你知道你事先得到什么,你做出一个承诺,
308	you should uphold that promise in the end.	你最终应该信守诺言
309	Okay. A deal is a deal, in other words.	摆换句话说,交易就是交易。
310	Exactly.	没错
311	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
312	Patrick.	派屈克派屈克派屈克
313	Is Patrick's reason the reason that most of you in the majority favored upholding a contract?	你们多数人赞成维持合同是因为帕特里克的原因吗?
314	Yes?	是吗?
315	All right.	好吧,我们走。
316	Let's hear now someone who would not enforce the contract.	让我们听听谁不会执行合同。
317	What do you say to Patrick?	你怎么跟帕特里克说?
318	Why not?	为什么不呢?
319	Yes.	对
320	Well, I mean, I agree.	我是说我同意
321	I think contracts should be upheld when all the parties know all the information.	我认为,当所有各方都知道所有信息时,合同就应当得到维护。
322	But in this case, I don't think there's a way a mother, before the child exists,	但在这种情况下,我不认为有方法,母亲,在孩子存在之前,
323	could actually know how she's going to feel about that child.	可能知道她对那孩子的感受
324	So I don't think the mother actually had all the information.	所以我不认为母亲真的有所有的信息。
325	She didn't know the person that was going to be born and didn't know how much she would love that person.	她不认识将要出生的人,也不知道她会有多爱他.
326	So that's my argument.	这就是我的论点。
327	So you would not, and what's your name?	所以你不会,你叫什么名字?
328	Evan Wilson.	埃文・威尔逊。
329	Evan says he would not uphold the contract because when it was entered into,	埃文说他不会支持合同因为合同签订时
330	the surrogate mother couldn't be expected to know in advance how she would feel.	代孕母亲不可能事先知道她会怎么想
331	So she didn't really have the relevant information when she made that contract.	所以当她签订合同时,她并没有真正掌握相关信息.
332	Who else?	还有谁?
333	Who else would not uphold the contract?	还有谁不支持合同?
334	Yes?	是吗?
335	I also think that a contract should generally be uphold,	我也认为,合同一般应当得到维护,
336	but I think that the child has an inalienable right to its actual mother.	但我认为孩子对自己的母亲有不可剥夺的权利
337	And I think that if that mother wants it, then that child should have the right to that mother.	我想如果那个母亲想要的话那那个孩子应该有权接近那个母亲
338	You mean the biological mother, not the adoptive mother.	你是说生母不是养母
339	Right.	对
340	And why is that?	为什么?
341	First of all, tell me your name.	首先,告诉我你的名字。
342	Anna.	安娜,请问安娜
343	Anna. Why is that Anna?	安娜,请问安娜为什么是安娜?
344	Because I think that that bond that is created by nature	因为我认为这种纽带是自然形成的
345	is stronger than any bond that is created by a contract.	强于合同创造的任何保证。
346	Good. Thank you.	不错谢谢
347	Who else?	还有谁?
348	Yes?	是吗?
349	I disagree.	我不同意这个观点。
350	I don't think that a child has an inalienable right to her biological mother.	我不认为孩子对生母有不可剥夺的权利.
351	I think that adoption and surrogacy are both legitimate trade-offs.	我认为收养和代孕都是合法的取舍。
352	And I agree with the point made that it's a voluntary agreement,	我同意这个观点这是自愿协议
353	an individual made it, it's a voluntary agreement,	一个人做的,这是自愿协议,
354	and you can't apply coercion to this argument.	你不能用强制手段来辩护
355	You can't apply the objection from coercion to this argument.	你不能把强制的反对应用到这个论点。
356	Correct.	没错
357	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
358	Kathleen.	凯瑟琳
359	Kathleen, what do you say to Evan that though there may not have been...	凯瑟琳你怎么跟埃文说虽然可能没有...
360	Evan claimed that the consent was tainted not by coercion,	埃文声称同意没有受到胁迫
361	but by lack of adequate information.	但缺乏足够的信息。
362	She couldn't have known the relevant information,	她不可能知道相关信息,
363	namely how she would feel about the child.	也就是她对孩子的感受
364	What do you say to that?	你说呢?
365	I don't think the emotional content of her feelings plays into this.	我并不认为她感情中的情感内容会起到作用.
366	I think in a case of law, in the justice of this scenario,	我认为,在法律案件中, 在这种情况下,
367	her change of feelings are not relevant.	她的感情改变与她无关
368	If I give up my child for adoption	如果我把孩子交给别人收养
369	and then I decide later on that I really want that child back, too bad.	之后我决定我真的想要那个孩子回来太糟糕了
370	It's a trade-off. It's a trade-off that the mother has made.	谓取舍. 以母所为取舍.
371	So a deal is a deal. You agree with Patrick?	所以说交易就是交易你同意帕特里克的话吗?
372	I agree with Patrick.	我同意帕特里克的意见。
373	A deal is a deal.	一言为定
374	Yes.	对
375	Good.	不错
376	Yes.	对
377	I would say that though I'm not really sure if I agree with the idea	虽然我不确定我是否同意这个想法
378	that the child is right to their mother,	孩子对母亲的权利,
379	I think the mother definitely has a right to her child.	我觉得母亲对孩子有权利
380	And I also think that there are some areas where market forces	我也认为有些领域市场迫使
381	shouldn't necessarily penetrate.	不应该穿透。
382	I think that the whole surrogate mother area	我想整个代孕母亲区
383	smacks a little bit of dealing in human beings seems dehumanizing.	有点人性化
384	And it doesn't really seem right.	似乎不太对劲
385	So that's my main reason.	所以这就是我的主要原因。
386	And what is, could you tell us your name?	什么,你能告诉我们你的名字吗?
387	I'm Andrew.	我是安德鲁
388	Andrew, what is dehumanizing about buying and selling	安德鲁买卖有什么非人性
389	the right to a child for money?	钱给孩子的权利?
390	What is dehumanizing about it?	何谓非人道.
391	Well, because you're buying someone's biological right.	因为你在买别人的生物权利
392	I mean, you can't, in the law, as it's said, you can't sell your own child.	我的意思是,你不能,在法律, 正如它所说的, 你不能卖你自己的孩子。
393	Like, were you to have a child,	像,如果你有一个孩子,
394	I believe that the law prohibits you selling it to another person.	我相信法律禁止你卖给别人
395	So this is like baby selling.	这就像卖婴儿。
396	Right.	对
397	To a certain extent.	在某种程度上
398	I mean, though there is a contract with another person,	我的意思是,虽然有一个合同与另一个人,
399	you've made agreements and whatnot,	你已经达成协议,什么的,
400	there is an undeniable emotional bond that takes place between a mother and a child.	母亲和孩子之间有着不可否认的情感纽带。
401	And it's wrong to simply ignore this because you've written out something contractually.	而忽略这一点是错误的, 因为你已经写出了一些合同。
402	You want to reply to Andrew?	你想回答安德鲁吗?
403	Stay there.	别动
404	You point out there's an undeniable emotional bond.	你指出有一种不可否认的情感联系.
405	I feel like in this situation,	我觉得在这种情况下,
406	we're not necessarily arguing against adoption or surrogacy in itself.	我们并不一定反对领养或代孕本身。
407	We're just sort of pointing out the emotional differences.	我们只是指出情绪上的差异。
408	But wait, I mean, it's easy to break everything down to numbers and say,	但等等,我的意思是,它很容易打破一切到数字说,
409	oh, we have contracts like you're buying and selling a car.	哦,我们有合同像你正在买卖一辆汽车。
410	But there are underlying emotions.	但有内在的情绪
411	I mean, you're dealing with people.	我的意思是,你处理的人。
412	I mean, these are not objects to be bought and sold.	我的意思是,这些不是要买卖的物品。
413	All right.	好吧,我们走。
414	What about Andrew's claim that this is like baby selling?	安德鲁声称这就像卖婴儿?
415	I believe that adoption and surrogacy should be permitted.	我认为,应当允许收养和代孕。
416	Whether or not I actually will partake in it is not really relevant.	不管我是否真的会参与其中都无关紧要
417	But I think that the government should give its citizens the rights to a law for adoption and surrogacy.	但我认为政府应该给予公民以收养和代孕的法律权利.
418	But adoption is not according to the law.	但收养不依法进行。
419	Is adoption baby selling?	领养婴儿卖吗?
420	Well, do you think you should be able to bid for a baby that's up for adoption?	你觉得你应该买个要领养的孩子吗?
421	That's Andrew's challenge.	这是安德鲁的挑战。
422	Do I think I should be able to bid for a baby?	我想我应该能买到孩子吗?
423	I'm not sure.	我不太确定说不定
424	It's a market.	这是一个市场。
425	I mean, I feel like the extent to which it's been applied,	我的意思是,我觉得它应用的程度,
426	I'm not sure if the government should be able to permit it.	我不确定政府是否应该允许
427	And I have to think about it more.	我必须多考虑一下
428	All right. Fair enough.	好吧,我们走。不错
429	Are you satisfied, Andrew?	你满意了吗,安德鲁?
430	Well, yeah.	对
431	I mean, I just I think surrogacy should be permitted.	我觉得应该允许代孕
432	I think that people can do it.	我认为人们可以做到这一点。
433	But I don't think that it should be forced upon people that once the contract is signed,	但我不认为应该强迫人们一旦签订合同,
434	it's absolutely like the end all.	绝对是结局
435	I think that it's unenforceable.	我认为这是不可执行的。
436	So people should be free, Andrew, to enter into these contracts.	因此人们应该有自由,安德鲁,来签订这些合同.
437	But it should not be enforceable in a court.	但它不应在法庭上强制执行。
438	Not in the court, no.	不在宫廷中,不在.
439	Who would like to join on one side or the other?	谁愿意加入一方或另一方?
440	Yes.	对
441	I think I have an interesting perspective on this,	我觉得我有个有趣的视角
442	because my brother was actually one of the people who donated to a sperm bank,	因为我哥哥其实是捐给精子银行的人之一
443	and he was paid a very large amount of money.	而且他得到了很多钱。
444	He was six feet tall, but not blonde.	他身高六英尺,但不是金发
445	He had dimples, though.	不过他有酒窝
446	So he actually has I'm an aunt now, and he has a daughter.	所以,他实际上有我现在是一个阿姨, 他有一个女儿。
447	He donated his sperm to a lesbian couple in Oklahoma,	他把他的精子捐给了俄克拉荷马州的一对女同性恋夫妇
448	and he has been contacted by them, and he has seen pictures of his daughter.	他看见他女儿的照片了
449	But he still does not feel an emotional bond to his daughter.	但是他仍然感觉不到他女儿的感情纽带.
450	He just has a sense of curiosity about what she looks like and what she's doing and how she is.	他只是对她长什么样子在做什么以及她是如何的好奇心
451	He doesn't feel love for his child.	他对孩子不感兴趣
452	So from this experience, I think the bond between a mother and a child	所以从这个经验来看,我认为母亲和孩子之间的联系
453	cannot be compared to the bond between the father and the child.	不可与父亲和孩子之间的纽带相比较。
454	That's really interesting.	这真的很有趣。
455	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
456	Vivian.	维维亚
457	So we've got the case of surrogacy, commercial surrogacy.	故有代孕,商业代孕之例.
458	And it's been compared to baby selling,	它被比作卖婴儿,
459	and we've been exploring whether that analogy is apt.	我们一直在探索这个类比是否合适。
460	And it can also be compared, as you point out, to sperm selling.	正如你所指出,它也可以与精子销售相比较。
461	But you're saying that sperm selling and baby selling or even surrogacy are very different.	但你的意思是精子卖和婴儿卖甚至代孕是截然不同的
462	They're unequal services.	他们是不平等的服务。
463	And that's because, Vivian, you say that the tie, the bond...	这是因为,薇薇安,你说的领带,纽带...
464	Yes, and also the time investment that's given by a mother, nine months,	是的,还有母亲给的时间投资,九个月
465	cannot be compared to a man going into a sperm bank, looking at pornography,	不能与进入精子库的人相比看着色情
466	depositing into a cup.	存进杯子里
467	I don't think those are equal.	我不认为这些是平等的。
468	Good.	不错
469	All right.	好吧,我们走。
470	Because that's what happens in a sperm bank.	因为精子库就是这样的
471	All right.	好吧,我们走。
472	So this is really interesting.	所以这真的很有趣。
473	We have...	我们...
474	All right.	好吧,我们走。
475	Notice the arguments that have come out so far.	注意目前为止的争论
476	The objections to surrogacy, the objections to enforcing that contract,	反对代孕,反对执行该合同,
477	are of at least two kinds.	至少有两种。
478	There was the objection about tainted consent.	有人反对有污点的同意。
479	This time, not because of coercion or implicit coercion,	这次不是因为胁迫或暗示的胁迫,
480	but because of imperfect or flawed information.	但因为信息不完善或有缺陷
481	So tainted or flawed consent can arise either because of coercion	因此,有污点或有缺陷的同意可能因胁迫而产生。
482	or because of a lack of relevant information,	或由于缺乏相关信息,
483	at least according to one argument that we've heard.	至少根据我们听到的一个论点
484	And then a second objection to enforcing the surrogacy contract	然后第二次反对执行代孕合同
485	was that it was somehow dehumanizing.	不知何故,这是非人性的。
486	Now, when this case was decided by the courts,	现在,当这个案子被法庭裁决时,
487	what did they say about these arguments?	他们怎么说这些论点的?
488	The lower court ruled that the contract was enforceable.	下级法院裁定合同可以执行。
489	Neither party had a superior bargaining position.	任何一方都不具备高级谈判地位。
490	A price for the service was struck and a bargain was reached.	服务价格被打破,并达成了交易。
491	Neither side didn't force the other.	双方都没有强迫对方。
492	Neither had disproportionate bargaining power.	也没有过大的讨价还价能力。
493	Then it went to the New Jersey Supreme Court.	之后它去了新泽西州最高法院.
494	And what did they do?	他们做了什么?
495	They said this contract is not enforceable.	他们说这份合同不能执行.
496	They did grant custody to Mr. Stern as the father	他们确实把监护权交给了Stern先生作为父亲
497	because they thought that would be in the best interest of the child,	因为他们认为这符合儿童的最大利益,
498	and they restored the rights of Marybeth Whitehead	他们曾恢复麦尔彦白发的权利,
499	and left it to lower courts to decide exactly what the visitation rights should be.	并留给下级法院确切决定探视权是什么。
500	They invoked two different kinds of reasons	他们引用两种不同的理由
501	along the lines that Andrew proposed.	按照安德鲁的提议
502	First, there was not sufficiently informed consent, the court argued.	首先,法院辩称,没有足够的知情同意。
503	Under the contract, the natural mother is irrevocably committed	根据合同,生母是不可撤销的
504	before she knows the strength of her bond with her child.	在她知道她和孩子的关系有多强之前
505	She never makes a truly voluntary informed decision,	她从来没有做出一个真正的自愿知情的决定,
506	for any decision prior to the baby's birth	出生前的任何决定
507	is in the most important sense uninformed.	在最重要的意义上,不知情。
508	That was the court.	那是法庭
509	Then the court also made a version of the second argument	后来法院也做了第二个论点的版本
510	against commodification in this kind of case.	在这种情况下,反对商品化。
511	This is the sale of a child, the court said,	这是买卖儿童,法院说,
512	and at the very least, the sale of a mother's right to her child.	至少还有卖掉母亲对孩子的权利
513	Whatever idealism may motivate the participants,	无论理想主义能激励参与者,
514	the profit motive predominates, permeates, and ultimately governs the transaction.	利润的动机占主导地位、渗透,并最终支配交易。
515	And so regardless, the court said,	所以不管怎样法庭说
516	regardless of any argument about consent or flawed consent or full information,	不论关于同意或有缺陷的同意或充分信息的任何论点,
517	there are some things in a civilized society that money can't buy.	在一个文明的社会中,有些东西是钱买不到的.
518	That's what the court said in voiding this contract.	朝廷在废除这份合同时也是这么说的.
519	Well, what about these two arguments	那么,关于这两个论点
520	against the extension of markets to procreation and to reproduction?	反对扩大市场以生产和繁殖?
521	How persuasive are they?	他们有多有说服力?
522	There was, it's true, a voluntary agreement,	确实有自愿协议
523	a contract struck between William Stern and Mary Beth Whitehead.	威廉·斯特恩和玛丽·贝丝·怀特海德签了合同
524	But there are at least two ways that consent can be other than truly free.	但至少有两种方式,同意可以是真正自由的。
525	First, if people are pressured or coerced to give their agreement.	第一,如果人们受到压力或被迫表示同意。
526	And second, if their consent is not truly informed.	其次,如果他们的同意没有被真正告知。
527	And in the case of surrogacy, the court said,	在代孕案中,法庭说:
528	a mother can't know.	母亲不能知道
529	Even one who already has kids of her own,	即使是已经生过孩子的人
530	what it would be like to bear a child and give it up for pay.	生孩子然后为了报酬而放弃孩子的感受
531	So in order to assess criticism, objection number one,	所以为了评估批评,反对第一,
532	we have to figure out just how free does a voluntary exchange have to be	我们必须弄清楚自愿的交换必须有多自由
533	with respect to the bargaining power and equal information.	关于讨价还价的能力和平等的信息。
534	Question number one, how do we assess?	第一问题,我们如何评估?
535	The second objection.	第二次反对。
536	The second objection is more elusive, it's more difficult.	第二项反对比较难捉摸,比较困难.
537	Andrew acknowledged this, right?	安德鲁承认了对吧?
538	What does it mean to say there is something dehumanizing	说有非人性的东西是什么意思
539	to make childbearing a market transaction?	使生育成为市场交易?
540	我们读过的一个哲学家 Elizabeth Anderson
541	tries to bring some philosophical clarity to the unease that Andrew articulated.	试图给安德鲁表达的不安带来一些哲学上的清晰.
542	She said, by requiring the surrogate mother to repress	她说,要求代孕母亲压抑
543	whatever parental love she feels for the child,	无论她父母对孩子的爱
544	surrogacy contracts convert women's labor into a form of alienated labor.	代孕合同将妇女的劳动转化为一种疏远的劳动形式.
545	The surrogate's labor is alienated because she must divert it from the end,	代孕者的劳动被疏远了因为她必须把它从最后转移
546	from the end which the social practices of pregnancy rightly promote,	从怀孕的社会习俗正确提倡的结束,
547	namely an emotional bond with her child.	也就是和她孩子的感情纽带
548	So what Anderson is suggesting is that certain goods	所以安德森的意思是某些商品
549	should not be treated as open to use or to profit.	不应视之为可使用或可获利。
550	Certain goods are properly valued in ways other than use.	某些货物的价值不以使用的方式适当估价。
551	What are other ways of valuing and treating goods that should not be open to use?	不应允许使用的商品的估价和处理还有其他哪些方法?
552	Anderson says there are many, respect, appreciation, love, honor, awe, sanctity.	安德森说有许多,尊重,欣赏,爱,荣誉,敬畏,神圣.
553	There are many modes of valuation beyond use	估价方式很多,不能使用
554	and certain goods are not properly valued	某些货物没有适当估价
555	if they're treated simply as objects of use.	如果它们被简单地当作使用对象。
556	How do we go about evaluating that argument of Anderson?	我们如何去评估安德森的论点?
557	In a way it takes us back to the debate we had with utilitarianism.	从某种意义上说,它使我们回到了我们关于功利主义的辩论。
558	Is use the only, is utility, is use the only proper way of treating goods,	这是唯一的用途,是用途,是处理商品的唯一适当方式,
559	including life, military service, procreation, childbearing?	包括生命、兵役、生育、生育?
560	And if not, how do we figure out?	如果不是,我们怎么解决?
561	How can we determine what modes of valuation are fitting or appropriate to those goods?	我们如何确定哪种估价方式适合或适合这些货物?
562	Several years ago there was a scandal surrounding a doctor,	几年前有个医生的丑闻
563	an infertility specialist in Virginia named Cecil Jacobson.	弗吉尼亚州的一个不孕症专家叫塞西尔·雅各布森
564	He didn't have a donor catalog because unknown to his patients,	他没有捐赠目录因为他的病人不知道
565	all of the sperm he used to inseminate his patients came from one donor,	他用来给病人注射精液的精子都来自一个捐献者
566	Dr. Jacobson himself.	雅各布森医生本人.
567	At least one woman who testified in court was unnerved	至少有一名在法庭上作证的妇女没有感到忧虑
568	at how much her newborn daughter looked just like him.	她的新生女儿长得像他
569	Now it's possible to condemn Dr. Jacobson for failing to inform the women in advance.	现在可以谴责雅各森博士没有事先通知女性.
570	That would be the argument about consent.	这就是关于同意的论点。
571	The columnist Ellen Goodman described the bizarre scenario as follows.	专栏作家埃伦·古德曼(英语:Ellen Goodman)将奇异的情景描述如下.
572	Dr. Jacobson, she wrote, gave his infertility business the personal touch.	她写道,雅各布森博士给他的不孕症生意个人的触摸。
573	But now the rest of us, she wrote, are in for a round of second thoughts about sperm donation.	但是现在我们其他人,她写道, 对于捐赠精子的第二轮想法。
574	Goodman concluded that fatherhood should be something you do, not something you donate.	古德曼总结道,父亲身份应该是你做的事,而不是你捐赠的东西.
575	And I think what she was doing, and what the philosopher Elizabeth Anderson is doing,	我认为她在做什么哲学家伊丽莎白·安德森在做什么
576	and what Andrew was suggesting with his argument about dehumanization,	安德鲁用他关于非人化的争论所暗示的
577	is pondering whether there are certain goods that money shouldn't buy,	正在思考是否有某些商品,钱不应该购买,
578	not just because of tainted consent, but also perhaps	不仅因为同意有污点,而且也许
579	because certain goods are properly valued in a way higher than mere use.	某些货物的价值高于仅仅使用。
580	Those at least are the questions we are going to pursue with the help of some philosophers in the weeks to come.	这些至少是我们今后几周在一些哲学家的帮助下将要探讨的问题。
581	It's the right thing to do.	谓之正法.
582	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
583	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
584	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.

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P9 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p09 8. 8.谎言的教训 (P9)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p09 8. 8.谎言的教训 (P9)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 55:04

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:06	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:10	We began by trying to navigate our way through Kant's moral theory,	我们开始尝试通过康德的道德理论
0:35	Now, fully to make sense of Kant's moral theory in the groundwork	现在,充分理解康德的道德理论在基础
0:45	requires that we be able to answer three questions.	要求我们能够回答三个问题。
0:52	How can duty and autonomy go together?	义务和自主权如何结合起来?
0:56	What's the great dignity in answering to duty?	何等为大庄严应供正等正觉.
1:02	It would seem that these two ideas are opposed, duty and autonomy.	看来这两种想法是对立的,责任和自治。
1:08	What's Kant's answer to that?	康德对此有何回应?.
1:10	We need someone here to speak up on Kant's behalf.	我们需要有人代表康德说话

展开字幕全文（782 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
2	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
3	We began by trying to navigate our way through Kant's moral theory,	我们开始尝试通过康德的道德理论
4	Now, fully to make sense of Kant's moral theory in the groundwork	现在,充分理解康德的道德理论在基础
5	requires that we be able to answer three questions.	要求我们能够回答三个问题。
6	How can duty and autonomy go together?	义务和自主权如何结合起来?
7	What's the great dignity in answering to duty?	何等为大庄严应供正等正觉.
8	It would seem that these two ideas are opposed, duty and autonomy.	看来这两种想法是对立的,责任和自治。
9	What's Kant's answer to that?	康德对此有何回应?.
10	We need someone here to speak up on Kant's behalf.	我们需要有人代表康德说话
11	Does he have an answer?	他有答案吗?
12	Yes, go ahead, stand up.	是的,继续,站起来。
13	Kant believes that you only act autonomously	康德认为你只能自主行事
14	when you are pursuing something only in the name of duty	当你只以义务的名义追求某事
15	and not because of your own circumstances,	不是因为你自己的情况
16	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}就像你只做一些好和道德的事 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}你只是做一些好事
17	if you're doing it because of duty	如果你这样做是出于职责
18	and not because of something of your own personal gain.	而不是因为你私利
19	Now, why is that acting out of freedom?	那为什么是出于自由?
20	Because you choose to accept those moral laws in yourself	因为你自己选择接受这些道德法则
21	and not brought on from outside upon onto you.	而不是从外面引到你身上
22	Okay, good, because acting out of duty is following a moral law	好吧很好因为失职是遵守道德法
23	that you impose on yourself.	你将自己强加于人。
24	That's what makes duty compatible with freedom.	这使得责任与自由相容.
25	Okay, that's good Matt, that is Kant's answer.	好吧,这是好马特,这是康德的答案。
26	That's great, thank you.	很好,谢谢
27	So, Kant's answer is, it is not in so far as I am subject to the law	所以康德的回答是,它不是在我受法律约束的范围内
28	of dignity, but rather in so far as with regard to that very same law,	但就同一法律而言,
29	I'm the author and I'm subordinated to that law on that grounds	我是作者,因此我服从法律
30	that I took it, as Matt just said, I took it upon myself.	正如马特刚才所说,我接受它,我自己接受它。
31	I willed that law.	我将遵守法律
32	So, that's why for Kant, acting according to duty	所以,这是为什么康德,按照职责行事
33	and acting freely in the sense of autonomously are one in the same.	在自主的意义上自由行动是一回事。
34	But that raises the question, how many moral laws are there?	但这引起了一个问题,有多少道德法律?
35	Because if dignity consists in being governed by a law that I give myself,	因为如果尊严是由我赋予自己的法律所决定的
36	what's to guarantee that my conscience will be the same as your conscience?	什么能保证我的良心和你的良心一样?
37	Who has Kant's answer to that? Yes?	谁有康德的答案? 是吗?
38	Because a moral law is not contingent upon subjective conditions,	因为道德法不取决于主观条件
39	it would transcend all particular differences between people	它将超越人与人之间的所有特殊差异
40	and so would be a universal law and in this respect,	并且将是一项普遍的法律,在这方面,
41	there would only be one moral law because it would be supreme.	只有一种道德法,因为它是至高无上的。
42	That's exactly right. What's your name? Kelly.	没错你叫什么来着? 凯莉
43	So, Kelly, Kant believes that if we choose freely out of our own consciences	所以,凯莉,康德相信如果我们从自己的良心中自由选择
44	the moral law, we are guaranteed to come up with one and the same moral law.	道德法则,我们保证提出同样的道德法则。
45	And that's because when I choose, it's not me, Michael Sandel, choosing.	这是因为当我选择时,不是我,迈克尔·桑德尔,选择。
46	It's not you, Kelly, choosing for yourself.	这不是你,凯莉,选择自己。
47	What is it exactly? Who's doing the choosing?	这到底是什么? 谁在做选择?
48	Who's the subject? Who's the agent who's doing the choosing?	主题是谁? 谁是代理谁做选择?
49	Reason. Well, reason. Pure reason.	缘由. 嗯,原因。 \ N 纯理故.
50	Pure reason. And what you mean by pure reason is what exactly?	纯理故. 你所说的纯粹的理由是什么?
51	Well, pure reason is, like we were saying before,	嗯,纯粹的理由是, 就像我们刚才说的,
52	not subject to any external conditions that may be imposed on us.	不受可能强加给我们的任何外部条件的限制。
53	Good. That's great. So, the reason that does the willing,	不错赞曰. 所以,原因做自愿,
54	the reason that governs my will when I will the moral law,	当我要遵守道德法则时, 支配我意志的原因,
55	is the same reason that operates when you choose the moral law for yourself.	也是你为自己选择道德法则的原因
56	And that's why it's possible to act autonomously to choose for myself,	所以可以自主地选择自己
57	for each of us to choose for ourselves as autonomous beings,	我们每个人都选择自己作为自主的生物,
58	and for all of us to wind up willing the same moral law.	也让我们所有人都愿意遵守同样的道德法则
59	The categorical imperative.	绝对必要。
60	But then there is one big and very difficult question left.	但还有一个大而非常困难的问题。
61	Even if you accept everything that Matt and Kelly have said so far.	即使你接受马特和凯利迄今所说的话
62	How is a categorical imperative possible?	如何实现绝对必要?
63	How is morality possible?	道德怎么会这样?
64	To answer that question, Kant says we need to make a distinction.	为了回答这个问题,康德说我们需要有所区别.
65	We need to make a distinction between two standpoints.	我们需要区分两种观点。
66	Two standpoints from which we can make sense of our experience.	我们能够从两个角度理解我们的经验。
67	Let me try to explain what he means by these two standpoints.	让我解释一下他从这两个角度来说意味着什么。
68	As an object of experience, I belong to the sensible world.	作为一个经验的对象,我属于明智的世界。
69	There, my actions are determined by the laws of nature,	在那里,我的行动是由自然法则决定的,
70	and by the regularities of cause and effect.	和因果的规律。
71	But as a subject of experience, I inhabit an intelligible world.	但作为一个经验的主体,我生活在一个可以理解的世界。
72	Here, being independent of the laws of nature, I am capable of autonomy,	在这里,独立于自然法则, 我有能力自治,
73	capable of acting according to a law I give myself.	能够按照法律行事我给了自己
74	Now Kant says that only from this second standpoint can I regard myself as free,	现在康德说,只有从第二个角度,我才能认为自己是自由的,
75	for to be independent of determination by causes in the sensible world is to be free.	在明智的世界中,不受因果决定的影响是自由的。
76	If I were wholly an empirical being, as the utilitarians assume,	如果我是一个完全的经验存在, 正如功利主义者假设,
77	if I were a being wholly and only subject to the deliverances of my senses,	如果我是一个完全并且只服从解脱我的感觉,
78	to the pain and pleasure and hunger and thirst and appetite,	痛苦、快乐、饥饿、渴渴、欲望
79	if that's all there were to humanity, we wouldn't be capable of freedom, Kant reasons.	如果人类只有这些我们就不会有自由康德的理由
80	Because in that case, every exercise of will would be conditioned by the desire for some object.	因为在这种情况下,意志的行使都会受到对某种物体的渴望的制约.
81	In that case, all choice would be heteronomous choice,	这样的话,所有的选择都是异质的选择,
82	governed by the pursuit of some external end.	由追求某种外部目的来管理。
83	When we think of ourselves as free, Kant writes,	当我们认为自己是自由的,康德写道,
84	we transfer ourselves into the intelligible world as members	我们转身进入一个能理解的世界作为成员
85	and recognize the autonomy of the will.	并承认意志的自主性。
86	That's the idea of the two standpoints.	这就是两个观点的想法.
87	So, how are categorical imperatives possible?	那么,怎样才能有绝对的必要?
88	Only because the idea of freedom makes me a member of an intelligible world.	只因为自由的思想使我成为了一个通晓世界的成员.
89	Now, Kant admits we aren't only rational beings,	康德承认我们不仅仅是理性的人
90	we don't only inhabit the intelligible world, the realm of freedom.	我们不只生活在能理解的世界自由的范畴
91	If we did, then all of our actions would invariably accord with the autonomy of the will.	如果我们这样做,那么我们的所有行动都必然符合意志的自主性。
92	But precisely because we inhabit simultaneously the two standpoints,	但正因为我们同时居住着两个观点
93	the two realms, the realm of freedom and the realm of necessity,	两个领域,自由领域和必要领域,
94	the realm of freedom and the realm of necessity,	自由领域和必要性领域,
95	precisely because we inhabit both realms, there is always potentially a gap	正是因为我们两边都居住着总会有缺口
96	between what we do and what we ought to do, between is and ought.	我们做什么和我们应该做什么, 之间是和应该的。
97	Another way of putting this point,	换句话说,
98	and this is the point with which Kant concludes the groundwork,	这就是康德完成基础建设的目的
99	morality is not empirical.	道德不是经验
100	Whatever you see in the world, whatever you discover through science,	无论你在世界上看到什么通过科学发现什么
101	can't decide moral questions.	不能决定道德问题。
102	Morality stands at a certain distance from the world, from the empirical world.	道德与世界,经验世界有一定距离.
103	That's why no science could deliver moral truth.	这就是为什么没有科学能够传达道德真理。
104	Now, I want to test Kant's moral theory with the hardest possible case,	现在,我想用最难办的案子来检验康德的道德理论,
105	a case that he raises, the case of the murderer at the door.	他提出的一个案子, 凶手在门口的案子。
106	Kant says that lying is wrong, we all know that, we've discussed why.	康德说撒谎是错的我们都知道我们讨论过为什么
107	Lying is at odds with the categorical imperative.	撒谎不符合绝对必要。
108	A French philosopher, Benjamin Constant,	一位法国哲学家本杰明·康斯坦特
109	wrote an article responding to the groundwork,	写了一篇回应基础的文章,
110	where he said this absolute prohibition on lying is wrong, it can't be right.	他说绝对禁止撒谎是错的这不可能对
111	What if a murderer came to your door,	如果一个杀人犯来到你家门口
112	looking for your friend who was hiding in your house,	寻找你朋友谁躲在你家,
113	and the murderer asked you point blank,	凶手问你,
114	is your friend in your house?	你的朋友在你家里吗?
115	Constant says it would be crazy to say that the moral thing to do in that case,	康斯坦斯说,如果说道德的事情在那样的情况下,
116	is to tell the truth.	说的是实话
117	Constant says the murderer certainly doesn't deserve the truth,	常说凶手不配知道真相
118	and Kant wrote a reply.	康德写了回信
119	And Kant stuck by his principle that lying even to the murderer at the door is wrong.	康德坚持他的原则连门前的凶手都撒谎是错的
120	And the reason it's wrong, he said,	他说,这是错的
121	is once you start taking consequences into account,	一旦你开始考虑后果
122	to carve out exceptions to the categorical imperative,	确定绝对必要事项的例外,
123	you've given up the whole moral framework.	你放弃了整个道德框架
124	You've become a consequentialist, or maybe a rule utilitarian.	你成为了一个间接主义者或者一个规则实用主义者
125	But most of you, and most of Kant's readers,	但是你们大多数人,还有康德的大部分读者,
126	think there's something odd and implausible about this answer.	认为这个答案有些奇怪和不可思议.
127	I would like to try to defend Kant on this point,	我想为康德辩护
128	and then I want to see whether you think that my defense is plausible.	然后我想看看你是否认为我的辩护是合理的
129	And I would want to defend him within the spirit of his own account of morality.	我想用他道德的精神来保护他
130	Imagine that someone comes to your door,	想象一下,有人来到你的门,
131	you were asked the question by this murderer,	你被这个杀人犯问到
132	you're hiding your friend.	你在隐藏你的朋友。
133	Is there a way that you could avoid telling a lie without selling out your friend?	有没有办法避免说谎而不出卖你的朋友?
134	Does anyone have an idea of how you might be able to do that?	有没有人知道你怎么做到的?
135	Yes, stand up.	是的,站起来。
136	I was just going to say if I were to let my friend in my house to hide in the first place,	我只是想说,如果我要让我的朋友在我家躲起来,
137	I'd probably make a plan with them.	我可能会和他们一起计划
138	So I'd be like, hey, I'll tell the murderer you're here, but escape.	所以我会说,嘿,我会告诉凶手你在这里,但逃跑。
139	That's one of the options mentioned.	这就是提到的选择之一。
140	But I'm not sure that's a Kantian option.	但我不确定那是康德的选择
141	You're still lying, though.	你还在撒谎
142	No, because he's in the house, but he won't be.	不,因为他在家里, 但他不会。
143	Oh, I see.	原来如此
144	All right, good enough. One more try.	好了,够了再试一次
145	If you just say you don't know where he is because he might not be locked in the closet,	如果你只是说你不知道他在哪里因为他可能不会被锁在衣柜里
146	he might have left the closet, you have no clue where he could be.	他可能离开了衣柜你不知道他可能在哪
147	So you would say I don't know,	所以你会说我不知道,
148	which wouldn't actually be a lie because you weren't at that very moment looking in the closet.	这其实不是谎言因为你当时不在衣柜里看
149	Exactly.	没错
150	So it would be strictly speaking true.	所以严格地说,这是真实的。
151	Yes.	对
152	And yet possibly deceiving.	也可能是骗人的
153	Misleading.	误导
154	But still true.	但还是真实的。
155	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
156	John.	约翰
157	All right, John has, now John may be on to something.	好吧,约翰已经,现在约翰可能在做一些事情。
158	John, you're really offering us the option of a clever evasion that is strictly speaking true.	约翰,你真的在给我们提供一种聪明的逃避的选择严格来说是真实的
159	This raises the question whether there is a moral difference	这引起了道德差异的问题
160	between an outright lie and a misleading truth.	在谎言和误导之间。
161	From Kant's point of view,	康德认为
162	there actually is a world of difference between a lie and a misleading truth.	实际上,谎言和误导性事实之间有着不同的世界。
163	Why is that?	为什么?
164	Even though both might have the same consequences.	即使两者可能都有同样的后果。
165	Remember, Kant doesn't base morality on consequences.	记住,康德不把道德建立在后果上.
166	He bases it on formal adherence to the moral law.	他以正式遵守道德法为依据。
167	Now, sometimes in ordinary life we make exceptions for the general rule against lying with a white lie.	有时候,在普通人的生活里,我们为禁止用白话撒谎的一般规则规定例外。
168	What is a white lie?	什么是白话?
169	It's a lie to make, well, to avoid hurting someone's feelings, for example.	比如说,为了避免伤害别人的感情,这是个谎言。
170	It's a lie that we think of as justified by the consequences.	我们认为这是个谎言,我们认为这是由后果证明的。
171	Now, Kant could not endorse a white lie,	现在,康德不能认可一个白色的谎言,
172	but perhaps he could endorse a misleading truth.	但也许他可以认可一个误导性的事实。
173	Suppose someone gives you a tie as a gift,	如果有人给你一个领带作为礼物,
174	and you open the box,	你打开盒子,
175	and it's just awful.	这太可怕了。
176	What do you say?	你说什么?
177	Thank you.	谢谢
178	You could say thank you,	你可以说谢谢,
179	but they're waiting to see what you think of it.	但他们等着看你的看法
180	Or they ask you, what do you think of it?	或者他们问你你觉得呢?
181	You could tell a white lie and say, it's beautiful.	你可以说一个白色的谎言说,这是美丽的。
182	But that wouldn't be permissible from Kant's point of view.	但从康德的角度来看,这是不允许的.
183	Could you say, not a white lie but a misleading truth,	你能说,不是白话,而是误导事实吗?
184	you open the box and you say,	你打开盒子说,
185	I've never seen a tie like that before.	我从来没有见过这样的领带。
186	Thank you.	谢谢
187	You shouldn't have.	你不该这样
188	That's good.	这是很好的。
189	Can you think of a contemporary political leader who engaged?	你能想到当代政治领袖是谁订婚的吗?
190	You can?	你能吗?
191	Who are you thinking of?	你在想谁?
192	Remember the whole carefully worded denials	记住所有精心措辞的否认
193	in the Monica Lewinsky affair of Bill Clinton?	在比尔·克林顿的莫妮卡·莱温斯基事件中?
194	Now, those denials actually became the subject	现在,那些否认变成了主题
195	of very explicit debate and argument	明确的辩论和争论
196	during the impeachment hearings.	在弹劾听证会期间。
197	Take a look at the following excerpts from Bill Clinton.	看一下比尔·克林顿的以下摘录.
198	Bill Clinton, is there something, do you think,	比尔·克林顿,你觉得...
199	morally at stake in the distinction between a lie	区分谎言在道德上有利害关系
200	and a misleading, carefully couched truth?	以及一个误导的、认真的真理,
201	I want to say one thing to the American people.	我想对美国人民说一件事。
202	I want you to listen to me.	我要你听我说
203	I'm going to say this again.	我要再说一遍。
204	I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky.	我和那个女人没有性关系 Lewinsky女士
205	I never told anybody to lie, not a single time, never.	我从来没有告诉任何人说谎, 没有一次,从来没有。
206	These allegations are false.	这些指控是虚假的。
207	Did he lie to the American people when he said,	他对美国人民撒谎了吗?
208	I never had sex with that woman?	我从来没有和那个女人做爱?
209	You know, he doesn't believe he did and because of the...	你知道,他不相信他这样做,因为...
210	Let me explain, may I explain, Congressman?	让我解释一下,我可以解释一下吗,议员?
211	What he said was to the American people	他对美国人民说的话
212	that he did not have sexual relations.	他没有性关系。
213	And I understand you're not going to like this, Congressman,	我知道你不会喜欢的议员先生
214	because you will see it as a hair-splitting, evasive answer.	因为你会把它看作是一个分毛,回避的答案。
215	But in his own mind, his definition was not...	但在他自己的想法中,他的定义并不是...
216	Okay, I understand that argument.	好吧,我理解这个论点。
217	So there you have the exchange.	所以,你有交换。
218	Now at the time, you may have thought this was just	现在,你可能以为这只是
219	a legalistic hair-splitting exchange between a Republican	共和党人之间合法分享头发的交流
220	who wanted to impeach Clinton	他们想弹劾克林顿
221	and the lawyer who was trying to defend him.	还有那个想为他辩护的律师
222	But now, in the light of Kant,	但现在,鉴于康德,
223	do you think there is something morally at stake	你觉得道德上有什么危险吗?
224	in the distinction between a lie and an evasion,	以谎言和逃避加以区别;
225	a true but misleading statement?	一个真实但误导性的陈述?
226	I'd like to hear from defenders of Kant,	我想听听康德的辩护人
227	people who think there is a distinction.	认为有区别的人。
228	Are you ready to defend Kant?	你准备好为康德辩护了吗?
229	Well, I think when you try to say that	好吧,我想当你试图说
230	lying and misleading truths are the same thing,	谎言和误导是同样的事情,
231	you're basing it on a consequentialist argument,	你根据一个结果论的论点,
232	which is that they achieve the same thing.	就是他们能达到同样的目的
233	But the fact of the matter is, you told the truth	但事实是,你说的是实话
234	and you intended that people would believe what you were saying,	你本意使人相信你所说的话,
235	which was the truth, which means it is not morally the same	这是事实, 这意味着它不是道德上一样
236	as telling a lie and intending that they believe it is the truth,	他们妄言自己是真实的,
237	even though it's not true.	虽不实.
238	Good. What's your name?	不错你叫什么来着?
239	Diana.	戴安娜戴安娜戴安娜
240	So Diana says that Kant has a point here,	戴安娜说康德有道理
241	and it's a point that might even come to the aid of Bill Clinton.	这一点甚至可能帮助比尔·克林顿。
242	And that is, well, what about that?	那又怎么样?
243	Someone over here.	有人在这里。
244	For Kant, motivation is key.	对康德来说动机是关键
245	So if you give to someone because, primarily,	所以,如果你给某人因为,主要,
246	you want to feel good about yourself,	你想感觉好自己,
247	Kant would say that has no moral worth.	康德会说那没有道德价值
248	Well, with this, the motivation is the same.	那么,用这个,动机是一样的。
249	It's to sort of mislead someone, it's to lie,	这是一种误导某人, 它的谎言,
250	it's to sort of throw them off the track,	就是把他们扔出轨道
251	and the motivation is the same.	动机是一样的
252	So there should be no difference.	故应无分别.
253	Good. So here, isn't the motive the same, Diana?	不错这里的动机不一样吗 Diana?
254	What do you say to this argument that, well, the motive is the same?	你对这个论点怎么说? 动机是一样的?
255	In both cases, there is the attempt, or at least the hope,	在这两种情况下,都有尝试,至少是希望,
256	that one's pursuer will be misled.	追随者将被误导
257	Well, you could look at it that way,	你可以这样看
258	but I think that the fact is that your immediate motive	但我认为事实是你的直接动机
259	is that they should believe you.	他们应该相信你
260	The ultimate consequence of that is that they might be deceived	其最终后果是他们可能被欺骗
261	and not find out what was going on.	却不知道发生了什么
262	But your immediate motive is that they should believe you	但你的直接动机是他们应该相信你
263	because you're telling the truth.	因为你说的是实话
264	May I help a little?	我能帮忙吗?
265	Sure.	当然
266	You and Kant.	你还有康德
267	Why don't you say, and what's your name? I'm sorry.	为甚么不说,又名甚么. 对不起
268	What?	你说什么?
269	Why don't you say to Wesley,	你为什么不对卫斯理说,
270	it's not exactly the case that the motive in both cases	这两起案件的动机并不是这样
271	is to mislead.	是要误导。
272	They're hoping, they're hoping that the person	他们希望,他们希望的人
273	will be misled by the statement,	将因言辞而迷误,
274	I don't know where they are,	我不知道他们在哪里,
275	or I never had sexual relations.	或者我从来没有性关系。
276	You're hoping that they will be misled,	你希望他们会被误导
277	but in the case where you're telling the truth,	但是如果你说的是实话
278	your motive is to mislead while at the same time telling the truth	你的动机是误导同时说实话
279	and honoring the moral law	尊重道德法则
280	and staying within the bounds of the categorical imperative.	并遵守绝对必要。
281	I think Kant's answer would be,	我认为康德的答案是,
282	Diana, yes?	戴安娜,是吗?
283	Yes.	对
284	You like that?	你喜欢吗?
285	I do.	当然
286	And so I think Kant's answer would be,	所以我认为康德的回答是
287	unlike a falsehood, unlike a lie,	与谎言不同,与谎言不同,
288	a misleading truth pays a certain homage to duty.	误导的真相会给人以一定的敬意
289	And the homage it pays to duty is what justifies that the work of,	它对职责的敬意证明了它的工作
290	even the work of evasion.	甚至是逃避
291	Diana.	戴安娜戴安娜戴安娜
292	Yes?	是吗?
293	You like, okay.	你喜欢,好吧。
294	And so there is something,	所以有一点,
295	some element of respect for the dignity of the moral law	尊重道德法尊严的某些要素
296	in the careful evasion,	在谨慎的逃避中,
297	because Clinton could have told an outright lie,	因为克林顿可以说谎
298	but he didn't.	但他没有。
299	And so I think Kant's,	所以我认为康德...
300	Kant's insight here is,	康德的见解是
301	in the carefully couched but true evasion,	那是在谨慎的、真实的逃避中;
302	there is a kind of homage to the dignity of the moral law	一种对道德法的尊严的敬意
303	that is not present in the outright lie.	谎言中并不存在这种谎言。
304	And that, Wesley, is part of the motive.	韦斯利,这是动机的一部分
305	It's part of the motive.	这是动机的一部分。
306	Yes, I hope he will be misled.	是的,我希望他会被误导。
307	I hope the murderer will run down the road	我希望凶手会跑到路上
308	or go to the mall looking for my friend instead of the closet.	或者去商场找我的朋友而不是衣橱
309	I hope that will be the effect.	我希望这就是效果。
310	I can't control that.	我不能控制这一点。
311	I can't control the consequences.	我无法控制后果
312	But what I can control is standing by and honoring	但我能控制的是站在面前和荣誉
313	however I pursue the ends I hope will unfold	但我追求我所希望的结局
314	to do so in a way that is consistent with respect for the moral law.	以符合尊重道德法的方式这样做。
315	Wesley, I don't think is entirely persuaded,	卫斯理,我不认为完全说服,
316	but at least this brings out,	但至少这能带来
317	this discussion brings out,	这场讨论带来了,
318	some of what's at stake, what's morally at stake	有些是利害关系,道德关系
319	in Kant's notion of the categorical imperative.	康德认为绝对必要
320	As long as any effort is involved,	只要有任何努力
321	I would say that the contract is valid	我要说合同是有效的
322	and it should take effect.	它应该生效。
323	But why? What morally can you point to?	为什么? 你在道义上能指什么?
324	For example, two people agree to be married	例如,两个人同意结婚
325	and one suddenly calls the other in two minutes	一个在两分钟内突然打电话给另一个
326	and says, I changed my mind.	我改变主意了
327	Does the contract have obligation on both sides?	合同双方是否有义务?
328	Well, I'm tempted to say no.	我很想说不
329	Fine.	还好
330	Last time we talked about Kant's categorical imperative	上次我们讨论康德的绝对任务
331	and we considered the way he applied	我们考虑了他的申请方式
332	the idea of the categorical imperative to the case of lying.	谎言案件绝对必要的想法。
333	I want to turn briefly to one other application	我想简单谈谈另一个申请
334	of Kant's moral theory and that's his political theory.	康德的道德理论这就是他的政治理论
335	Now, Kant says that just laws arise	现在,康德说,只有法律产生
336	from a certain kind of social contract.	从某种社会契约。
337	But this contract, he tells us, is of an exceptional nature.	但是,他告诉我们,这份合同具有特殊性质。
338	What makes the contract exceptional	是什么使得合同例外
339	is that it's not an actual contract	其实不是合同
340	that happens when people come together	当人们走到一起时
341	and try to figure out what the Constitution should be.	试着找出宪法应该是什么。
342	Kant points out that the contract that generates justice	康德指出,创造正义的合同
343	is what he calls an idea of reason.	这是他所谓的理性思想。
344	It's not an actual contract among actual men and women	不是男女实际合同
345	gathered in a Constitutional convention.	在宪法大会上集会
346	Why not?	为什么不呢?
347	I think Kant's reason is that actual men and women	我觉得康德的理由是真正的男人和女人
348	gathered in a real Constitutional convention	举行真正的制宪会议
349	would have different interests, values, aims,	将具有不同的利益、价值、目标,
350	and there would also be differences of bargaining power	谈判能力也会有差异
351	and differences of knowledge among them.	和他们之间知识的差别。
352	And so the laws that would result from their deliberations	所以他们审议后产生的法律
353	wouldn't necessarily be just,	也不一定只是这样
354	wouldn't necessarily conform to principles of right,	不一定符合权利原则,
355	but would simply reflect the differences of bargaining power,	但只是反映了讨价还价能力的差异,
356	the special interests,	特殊利益,
357	the fact that some might know more than others	有些人可能比其他人知道更多
358	about law or about politics.	关于法律或政治
359	So Kant says a contract that generates principles of right	康德说合同产生权利原则
360	is merely an idea of reason,	只是一个理性的想法,
361	but it has undoubted practical reality,	但它无疑地创造了现实,
362	because it can oblige every legislator	因为它可以强制每个立法者
363	to frame his laws in such a way	以这种方式制定他的法律
364	that they could have been produced by the united will of the whole nation.	它们本可以由整个民族的统一意志产生。
365	So Kant is a contractarian,	所以康德是个契约主义者
366	but he doesn't trace the origin or the rightness of law	但他没有追踪法律的来源和正确性
367	to any actual social contract.	任何实际的社会契约。
368	This gives rise to an obvious question.	这引起了一个显而易见的问题。
369	What is the moral force of a hypothetical contract,	假设合同的道德力量是什么?
370	a contract that never happened?	一份从未发生的合同?
371	That's the question we take up today.	这就是我们今天要处理的问题。
372	But in order to investigate it,	但为了调查
373	we need to turn to a modern philosopher, John Rawls,	我们需要转向现代哲学家约翰·罗尔斯
374	who worked out in his book, A Theory of Justice,	他在他的书《正义理论》中写道:
375	in great detail an account of a hypothetical agreement	详细叙述假设协议
376	as the basis for justice.	作为正义的基础。
377	Rawls' theory of justice, in broad outline,	罗尔斯的正义理论,概括地说,
378	is parallel to Kant's in two important respects.	在两个重要方面与康德平行
379	Like Kant, Rawls was a critic of utilitarianism.	和康德一样,罗尔斯也是功利主义的批评者.
380	Each person possesses an inviolability founded on justice,	每个人拥有基于正义的不可侵犯性,
381	Rawls writes, that even the welfare of society as a whole cannot override.	Rawls写道, 即使整个社会的福利也不能压倒一切。
382	The rights secured by justice are not subject to political bargaining	司法保障的权利不受政治谈判的约束
383	or to the calculus of social interests.	或社会利益的计算。
384	The second respect in which Rawls' theory follows Kant's	罗尔斯理论遵循康德理论的第二个方面
385	is on the idea that principles of justice, properly understood,	认为正义原则,
386	can be derived from a hypothetical social contract,	可以从假设的社会契约中推断出来,
387	not an actual one.	不是真实的
388	And Rawls works this out in fascinating detail	Rawls对此非常细致
389	with the device of what he calls the veil of ignorance.	带着他所说的无知的面纱。
390	The way to arrive at the rights,	实现权利的方式,
391	the basic rights that we must respect,	我们必须尊重的基本权利,
392	the basic framework of rights and duties,	权利和义务的基本框架,
393	is to imagine that we were gathered together,	想象我们聚在一起
394	trying to choose the principles to govern our collective lives,	试图选择指导我们集体生活的原则,
395	without knowing certain important particular facts about ourselves.	却不知道某些关于我们的重要事实
396	That's the idea of the veil of ignorance.	这就是无知面纱的想法.
397	Now what would happen if we gathered together, just as we are here,	现在,如果我们聚集在一起会怎么样, 就像我们在这里一样,
398	and tried to come up with principles of justice to govern our collective life?	并试图提出公正原则来指导我们的集体生活?
399	There would be a cacophony of proposals, of suggestions,	会有各种建议,建议,
400	reflecting people's different interests.	反映人们的不同利益。
401	Some are strong, some are weak.	有强有弱.
402	Some are rich, some are poor.	有的有钱,有的穷.
403	So Rawls says, imagine instead,	所以罗尔斯说,想象一下,
404	that we are gathered in an original position of equality.	我们被聚集在最初平等的地位。
405	And what assures the equality is the veil of ignorance.	而能保证平等的是无知的面纱.
406	Imagine that we are all behind a veil of ignorance,	想象一下,我们都站在无知的面纱后面,
407	that temporarily abstracts from, or brackets, hides from us,	暂时从我们这里或从括号里隐藏
408	who in particular we are.	尤其是我们是谁
409	Our race, our class, our place in society, our strengths, our weaknesses,	我们的种族,我们的阶级,我们在社会中的地位,我们的优势,我们的弱点,
410	whether we're healthy or unhealthy.	不管是健康还是不健康
411	Then, and only then, Rawls says,	然后,只有那时,罗尔斯说,
412	the principles we would agree to would be principles of justice.	我们同意的原则是正义原则。
413	That's how the hypothetical contract works.	假设合同就是这样运作的.
414	What is the moral force of this kind of hypothetical agreement?	这种假设协议的道德力量是什么?
415	Is it stronger or weaker than a real agreement, an actual social contract?	它是否比真正的协议,真正的社会契约更强或更弱?
416	In order to answer that question,	为了回答这个问题,
417	we have to look hard at the moral force of actual contracts.	我们必须认真看待实际合同的道德力量。
418	There are really two questions here.	这里真的有两个问题。
419	One of them is, how do actual contracts bind me or obligate me?	其中之一是,实际的合同如何约束我或责成我?
420	Question number one.	问曰.
421	And question number two,	第二题
422	how do actual real-life contracts justify the terms that they produce?	实际合同如何证明合同条款的合理性?
423	If you think about it, and this is in line with Rawls and Kant,	如果你考虑一下这符合罗尔斯和康德
424	the answer to the second question,	对第二个问题的回答,
425	how do actual contracts justify the terms that they produce?	实际合同如何证明合同条款的合理性?
426	The answer is, they don't.	答案是,他们没有。
427	At least not on their own.	至少不是靠他们自己
428	Actual contracts are not self-sufficient moral instruments.	实际合同不是自给自足的道德工具。
429	Of any actual contract or agreement,	任何实际合同或协议,
430	it can always be asked, is it fair what they agreed to?	人们总是可以问,他们同意的公平吗?
431	The fact of the agreement never guarantees the fairness of the agreement.	协议的事实从未保证协议的公正性.
432	And we know this by looking at our own constitutional convention.	我们通过审视自己的宪法会议来了解这一点。
433	It produced a constitution that permitted slavery to persist.	它产生了允许奴隶制持续存在的宪法。
434	It was agreed to, it was an actual contract,	同意,这是一份实际合同,
435	but that doesn't establish that the laws agreed to, all of them, were just.	但这并不证明法律是公正的
436	Well then, what is the moral force of actual contracts?	那么,实际合同的道德力量是什么?
437	To the extent that they bind us,	只要它们能束缚我们
438	they obligate in two ways.	他们以两种方式承担义务。
439	Suppose, maybe here it would help to take an example.	假设,也许这里能举个例子。
440	We make an agreement, a commercial agreement.	我们达成协议,商业协议
441	I promise to pay you a hundred dollars,	我答应付你一百块
442	if you will go harvest and bring to me a hundred lobsters.	如果你能去收割带一百只龙虾给我
443	We make a deal.	我们做个交易
444	You go out and harvest them and bring them to me.	你出去收割他们,带给我
445	I eat the lobsters, serve them to my friends, and then I don't pay.	我吃龙虾, 把它们交给我的朋友, 然后我不支付。
446	And you say, but you're obligated.	你说,但你有义务。
447	And I say, why?	我说,为什么?
448	What do you say?	你说什么?
449	Well, we had a deal.	我们说好的
450	And you benefited.	你从中获益了
451	You ate all those lobsters.	你吃了所有的龙虾。
452	Well, that's a pretty strong argument.	嗯,这是一个相当强烈的争论。
453	It's an argument that depends, though, on the fact that I benefited from your labor.	这场争论取决于我从你的劳动中获益的事实
454	So, contracts sometimes bind us insofar as they are instruments of mutual benefit.	因此,合同有时对我们具有约束力,因为它们是互利的工具。
455	I ate the lobsters, I owe you the hundred dollars for having gathered them.	我吃了龙虾,我欠你一百块来收集它们。
456	But suppose, now take a second case.	但假设,现在采取第二个案件。
457	We make this deal.	我们做个交易
458	I'll pay you a hundred dollars for a hundred lobsters.	我付你一百块买一百只龙虾
459	And two minutes later, before you've gone to any work,	两分钟后在你上班前
460	I call you back and say I've changed my mind.	我回你电话说我改变主意了
461	Now, there's no benefit.	现在,没有好处。
462	There's no work on your part.	没有你的工作。
463	So, there's no element of reciprocal exchange.	所以,不存在对等交换的元素.
464	What about in that case?	那样怎么样?
465	Do I still owe you?	我还欠你钱吗?
466	Merely in virtue of the fact that we had an agreement?	只是因为我们有协议?
467	Who says, those of you who say yes, I still owe you?	谁说,你们谁说是,我还欠你?
468	Why?	为什么?
469	Okay, stand up.	好吧,站起来。
470	Why do I owe you?	为什么我欠你?
471	I call you back.	我再打给你
472	After two minutes, you haven't done any work.	两分钟后,你没有做任何工作。
473	I think I spent a time and effort in drafting this contract with you.	我想我花了很多时间和精力来起草这份合同
474	And also, I have emotional expectation that I'll go through the work.	而且,我还有情感上的期望我会通过工作。
475	So, you took time to draft the contract, but we did it very quickly.	所以,你花了时间起草合同, 但我们做的非常快。
476	We just chatted on the phone.	我们刚在电话里聊天
477	That wouldn't be a formal form of contract, though.	不过那不是正式的合同形式
478	Well, I faxed it to you.	我传真给你了
479	It only took a minute.	只需要一分钟
480	As long as any effort is involved, I would say that the contract is valid	只要有努力,我就说合同有效
481	and it should take effect.	它应该生效。
482	But why?	为什么?
483	What was, what morally can you point to that obligates me?	什么,什么道义上,你能指出这义务我?
484	I admit that I agreed, but you didn't go to any work.	我承认我同意了但你没去工作
485	I didn't enjoy any benefit.	我没有享受任何好处。
486	Because one might mentally go through all the work of harvesting the lobsters.	因为人们可能在精神上经历捕龙虾的所有工作。
487	You mentally went through the work of harvesting the lobsters.	你经过了收割龙虾的工作
488	That's nothing, is it?	没什么,是吗?
489	It's not much.	亦无甚处.
490	Is it worth $100 that you were imagining yourself going and collecting?	你想象自己去收集100美元吗?
491	It may not worth $100, but it may worth something to some people.	它可能不值100美元,但它可能对一些人有价值。
492	All right, I'll give you a buck for it, for that.	好吧,我给你一块钱为它,为此。
493	But what I, so you're still pointing, what's interesting,	但是,我,所以你还在指点, 什么是有趣的,
494	you're still pointing to the reciprocal dimension of contracts.	你还在指出合同的对等性
495	You did or imagined that you did or looked forward to doing something on my behalf.	你曾经或者想象过你曾经或者期待为我做点什么
496	For example, two people agreed to be married and one suddenly calls the other	例如,两个人同意结婚,一个突然打电话给另一个
497	and in two minutes say, I changed my mind.	两分钟后我改变主意了
498	Does the contract have obligation on both sides?	合同双方是否有义务?
499	Nobody has paid any work or nobody has benefited yet.	没有人支付任何工作,也没有人受益。
500	Well, I'm tempted to say no.	我很想说不
501	Fine.	还好
502	All right, what's your name?	好吧,你叫什么名字来着?
503	- 朱利安 - 朱利安 - Julian.
504	Thank you, Julian.	谢谢你,朱利安。
505	All right, that was good.	好吧,这是很好的。
506	Now, is there anyone who has, who agrees with Julian that I still owe the money?	现在,有没有人谁有,谁同意朱利安我仍然欠的钱?
507	For any other reason now, I have, go ahead, stand up.	因为任何其他原因,我现在有,去,站起来。
508	I think if you back out, it sort of cheapens the institution of contracts.	我认为如果你退后, 它有点降低合同制度。
509	Good, but why, why does it?	很好,但为什么,为什么?
510	Well, I think this is kind of Kantian, but there's, you know,	嗯,我想这是一种康甸, 但有,你知道,
511	there's a certain intrinsic value in being able to make contracts	签合同有内在价值
512	and having, you know, knowing that people will expect that you'll go through with that.	而且,你知道,知道, 人们会期望你会经历这一点。
513	Good, there is some, it would cheapen the whole idea of contracts,	好,有的,它会降低整个合同的想法,
514	which has to do with taking an obligation on myself.	和承担自己的责任有关
515	Is that, is that the idea?	是这样吗?
516	Yeah, I think so.	是的,我想是这样。
517	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
518	Adam.	亚当
519	So Adam points instead not to any reciprocal benefit or mutual exchange,	因此,亚当指而不是任何互惠或相互交换,
520	but to the mere fact of the agreement itself.	但仅仅是协议本身的事实。
521	We see here there are really two different ways in which actual contracts generate obligations.	这里我们看到,实际合同产生义务的方式确实有两种不同。
522	One has to do with the act of consent as a voluntary act.	与同意行为作为自愿行为有关。
523	And it points, Adam said this was a Kantian idea, and I think he's right,	亚当说这是康德的主意我觉得他是对的
524	because it points to the ideal of autonomy.	因为它指出了自主的理想.
525	When I make a contract, the obligation is one that is self-imposed.	当我订立合同时,义务是自我规定的。
526	And that carries a certain moral weight, independent of other considerations.	这具有一定的道德分量,独立于其他考虑。
527	And then there's a second element of the moral force of contract arguments,	还有第二个因素道德力量合同争论,
528	which has to do with the sense in which actual contracts are instruments of mutual benefit	与实际合同是互利工具的意义有关
529	and this points toward the ideal of reciprocity.	这表明了互惠的理想。
530	That obligation can arise, I can have an obligation to you,	这种义务可能会产生, 我可以对你承担义务,
531	insofar as you do something for me.	只要你为我做点什么
532	Now, we're investigating the moral force and also the moral limits of actual contracts.	现在我们正在调查道德力量以及实际合同的道德限度
533	And here I would like to advance an argument about the moral limits of actual contracts.	在此,我想提出有关实际合同的道德限度的论点。
534	Now that we know what moral ingredients do the work when people come together and say,	现在我们知道当人们聚集在一起说, 道德因素能做什么了,
535	I will do this if you do that.	如果你这样做,我会做到这一点。
536	I would like to argue first that the fact that two people agree to some exchange	首先我想说的是两个人同意交换
537	does not mean that the terms of their agreement are fair.	并不意味着协议的条款是公平的。
538	When my two sons were young, they collected baseball cards and traded them.	我的两个儿子年轻的时候,他们收集了棒球卡,并进行交易.
539	And there is a two-year age difference between them.	他们之间有两岁的差异。
540	And so I had to institute a rule about the trades	所以我不得不制定一条关于交易的规则
541	that no trade was complete until I had approved it.	在我批准之前任何交易都不可能完成
542	And the reason is obvious.	而其理显.
543	The older one knew more about the value of these cards	年长者更知道这些牌的价值
544	and so would take advantage of the younger one.	那样就能利用年轻人
545	So that's why I had to review it to make sure that the agreements were fair.	这就是为什么我不得不审查它,以确保协议是公平的。
546	Now you may say, well, this is paternalism.	现在你可以说这是家长制
547	Of course it was.	当然了
548	That's what paternalism is for, that kind of thing.	家长制就是这样的
549	So what does this show? What does the baseball card example show?	那么,这是什么显示? 棒球卡的例子显示什么?
550	The fact of an agreement is not sufficient to establish the fairness of the terms.	协议的事实不足以确定条款的公正性。
551	I read some years ago of a case in Chicago.	几年前我在芝加哥读过一个案子
552	There was an elderly widow, an 84-year-old widow named Rose,	有一个年长的寡妇一个84岁的寡妇叫罗斯
553	who had a problem in her apartment with a leaky toilet.	她的公寓里有厕所漏水的问题
554	And she signed a contract with an unscrupulous contractor	她和一个不择手段的承包商签了合同
555	who offered to repair her leaky toilet in exchange for $50,000.	他提出修补她漏水的厕所换取5万美元
556	But she had agreed.	但她已经同意了
557	She was of sound mind, maybe terribly naive and unfamiliar with the price of plumbing.	她心智健全也许很天真对管道的价格很陌生
558	She had made this agreement.	她做了这个协议。
559	Luckily, it was discovered she went to the bank and asked to withdraw $25,000.	幸好发现她去了银行要求提取25000美元
560	And the teller said, what do you need all of that money for?	出纳员说,你需要这些钱干什么?
561	And she said, well, I have a leaky toilet.	她说我有一个漏水的厕所
562	And the teller called authorities and they discovered this unscrupulous contractor.	出纳员打电话给当局他们发现了这个肆无忌惮的承包商
563	Now, I suspect that even the most ardent contractarians in the room	现在,我怀疑,即使是最热心的合同工在房间里
564	will agree that the fact of this woman's agreement	这个女人同意的事实
565	is not a sufficient condition of the agreement being fair.	并非协议公平的一个充分条件。
566	Is there anyone who will dispute that?	有没有人会对此提出异议?
567	No one. Am I missing anyone?	没有人。我想念谁了吗?
568	Alex, where are you?	亚历克斯,你在哪里?
569	So, maybe there's no dispute then to my first claim	所以,也许没有争议,然后我的第一个要求
570	that an actual agreement is not necessary to their,	实际协议对于他们,
571	is not a sufficient condition of their being an obligation.	并不是作为义务的充分条件。
572	I want to now make a stronger, maybe more controversial claim	我想现在做一个更强,也许更有争议的说法
573	about the moral limits of actual contracts	关于实际合同的道德限制
574	that a contract or an act of consent is not only not sufficient,	合同或同意行为不仅不够充分,
575	but it's not even a necessary condition of their being an obligation.	但这不是他们义务的必要条件
576	And the idea here is that if there is reciprocity, if there is an exchange,	这里的想法是,如果有互惠, 如果有一个交换,
577	then a receipt of benefits, there can be an obligation even without an act of consent.	因此,即使没有同意,也会产生一项义务。
578	One great example of this involves the 18th century philosopher,	一个伟大的例子是 18世纪的哲学家
579	the Scottish moral philosopher David Hume.	苏格兰道德哲学家大卫·休姆.
580	When he was young, Hume wrote a book arguing against Locke's idea	他年轻的时候,休姆写了一本书,反对洛克的想法
581	of an original social contract.	原始社会合同。
582	Hume heapscorned on this contractarian idea.	休姆轻视这个契约主义的想法
583	He said it was a philosophical fiction,	他说那是个哲学小说
584	one of the most mysterious and incomprehensible operations	最神秘最难理解的行动之一
585	that can possibly be imagined, this idea of the social contract.	社会契约的这个想法
586	Many years later, when he was 62 years old,	许多年后,当他62岁时,
587	Hume had an experience that put to the test	休姆有过一次考验
588	his rejection of consent as the basis of obligation.	拒绝同意作为义务的基础。
589	Hume had a house in Edinburgh.	休姆在爱丁堡有一栋房子.
590	He rented it to his friend, James Boswell,	他把它租给他的朋友詹姆斯·博斯韦尔
591	who in turn sublet it to a subtenant.	他把它转嫁给一个附庸。
592	The subtenant decided that the house needed some repairs and a paint job.	副机长决定,房屋需要一些修理和油漆工作.
593	He hired a contractor to do the work.	他雇了一个承包商来做这项工作。
594	The painter did the work and sent the bill to Hume.	画家做了这部作品,并将法案寄给了休姆.
595	Hume refused to pay on the grounds that he hadn't consented.	休姆拒绝付款,理由是他没有同意.
596	He hadn't hired the painter.	他没有雇用画家。
597	The case went to court.	案件上法庭.
598	The contractor said it's true, Hume didn't agree,	承包商说这是真的休姆不同意
599	but the house needed a painting and I gave it a very good one.	但房子需要一幅画我给了它一幅非常好的画
600	Hume thought this was a bad argument.	休姆认为这是一场糟糕的争论.
601	The only argument this painter makes is that the work was necessary to be done,	这个画家提出的唯一论点是作品是必须完成的,
602	but this is no good answer because by the same rule,	但这不是一个好答案因为同样的规则,
603	this painter may go through every house in Edinburgh	这个画家可以走遍爱丁堡的每个房子
604	and do what he thinks proper to be done without the landlord's consent	做他认为应该做的未经房东同意
605	and give the same reason, that the work was necessary	并给出同样的理由,认为工作是必要的
606	and that the house was the better for it.	房子对它更好
607	So Hume didn't like the theory that there could be obligation	所以休姆不喜欢有义务的理论
608	to repay a benefit without consent,	未经同意而偿还养恤金;
609	but the defense failed and he had to pay.	但辩护失败了,他不得不付出代价。
610	Let me give you one other example of the distinction	让我举个例子给你们看看
611	between the consent-based aspect of obligations	在基于同意的义务方面
612	and the benefit-based aspect and how they're sometimes run together.	和基于效益的方面, 和他们如何运行有时在一起。
613	This is based on a personal experience.	这是基于个人经历。
614	Some years ago, I was driving across the country with some friends	几年前,我和朋友一起开车到全国各地
615	and we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere.	我们发现自己在荒郊野外
616	In Hammond, Indiana.	在印第安纳州的哈蒙德
617	We stopped at a rest stop and got out of the car	我们停在休息站然后下车
618	and when we came back, our car wouldn't start.	而当我们回来,我们的车不会开始。
619	None of us knew much about cars.	我们谁都不懂车
620	We didn't really know what to do until we noticed that	我们不知道该怎么做直到我们注意到
621	in the parking lot driving up next to us was a van	我们旁边的停车场开着一辆货车
622	and on the side it said, Sam's Mobile Repair Van.	上面写着"山姆的移动修理车"
623	And out of the van came a man, presumably Sam,	车里有个男人大概是Sam
624	and he came up to us and he said, can I help you?	他来找我们说,我能帮你吗?
625	Here's how I work.	这就是我的工作方式。
626	I work by the hour for $50 an hour.	我每小时工作50美元
627	If I fix your car in five minutes, you owe me the $50.	如果我在五分钟内修好你的车你欠我50美元
628	And if I work on your car for an hour and can't fix it,	如果我在你的车上工作了一个小时却无法修复
629	you'll still owe me the $50.	你还欠我50美元
630	So I said, well, what is the likelihood	所以我说,什么是可能性
631	that you'll be able to fix the car in five minutes?	你五分钟后就能修好车了吗?
632	And he didn't answer,	他没有回答
633	but he did start looking under the,	但他确实开始在下面寻找,
634	poking around under the steering column.	在方向栏下游荡
635	A short time passed.	过了很短的时间
636	He emerged from under the steering column and said,	他从导栏下出来,说:
637	there's nothing wrong with the ignition system,	点火系统没有问题
638	but you still have 45 minutes left.	但你还有45分钟
639	Should I look under the hood?	我应该看看引擎盖底下吗?
640	I said, wait a minute.	我说,等一下
641	I haven't hired you.	我没有雇你
642	We haven't made any agreement.	我们还没达成协议
643	And then he became very angry.	然后他变得非常愤怒。
644	And he said, do you mean to say that if I had fixed your car	他说,你的意思是说如果我修好了你的车
645	while I was working under the steering column	当我在指导栏下工作时
646	that you wouldn't have paid me?	你不会付钱给我?
647	And I said, that's a different question.	我说,这是一个不同的问题。
648	I didn't, I didn't go into the distinction	我没有,我没有去区分
649	between consent-based and benefit-based obligations,	在基于同意的义务与基于利益的义务之间,
650	but I think he had the intuition that if he had fixed it	但我认为他有直觉如果他修好了它
651	while he was poking around that I would have owed him the $50,	当他到处打探我欠他50美元时
652	I shared that intuition.	我也有这种直觉
653	I would have, but he inferred from that,	我本来会的但他从中推断
654	this was the fallacy and the reasoning	这是谬论和推理
655	that I think lay behind his anger,	我认为他背后的愤怒,
656	he inferred from that fact that therefore,	他从这一事实中推断,
657	implicitly, we had an agreement.	暗含着,我们达成了协议。
658	But that, it seems to me, is a mistake.	但在我看来,这是一个错误。
659	It's a mistake that fails to recognize the distinction	错误是不承认区别
660	between these two different aspects of contract arguments.	合同论点的这两个不同方面之间。
661	Yes, I agree, I would have owed him $50	是的,我同意,我会欠他50美元
662	if he had repaired my car during that time.	如果他在那个时候修好了我的车
663	Not because we had made any agreement, we hadn't.	不是因为我们达成了任何协议,我们没有。
664	But simply because if he had fixed my car,	只是因为他修了我的车
665	he would have conferred on me a benefit	他本可以给我好处的
666	for which I would have owed him	我本该欠他的
667	in the name of reciprocity and fairness.	以互惠和公平的名义。
668	So, here's another example of the distinction	所以,这里是另一个区别的例子
669	between these two different kinds of arguments,	这两类争论之间,
670	these two different aspects of the morality of contract.	合同道德的这两个不同方面。
671	Now, I want to hear how many think I was in the right in that case.	现在,我想听听有多少人认为我在那个情况下是正确的。
672	That's reassuring.	这是令人放心的。
673	Is there anyone who thinks I was in the wrong?	有人认为我错了吗?
674	Anyone?	有人吗?
675	You do?	是吗?
676	Why? Go ahead.	为什么? 来吧。
677	Isn't the problem with this is that any benefit	这不是问题在于任何好处
678	is inherently subjectively defined?	内在主观定义?
679	I mean, what if you wanted your car broken	我的意思是,如果你想要你的车坏了
680	and he had fixed it? I mean...	他修好了吗? 我是说...
681	No, I didn't want it broken.	不我不想把它弄断
682	Yeah, in this case.	是啊,在这种情况下。
683	But who would? Who would? Who would?	但谁会呢? 谁会? 谁会?
684	I don't know, someone.	我不知道,有人吗?
685	I mean, what if Hume, you know,	我的意思是,如果休姆,你知道,
686	what if the painter had painted his house blue,	如果画家把房子涂成蓝色,
687	but he hated the color blue?	但他讨厌蓝色?
688	I mean, you have to sort of define what your benefit is	我的意思是,你必须排序定义你的好处是什么
689	before the person does it.	在别人做之前
690	Well, all right.	好吧,没事的。
691	So, what would you conclude from that, though,	所以,你会得出什么结论,虽然,
692	for the larger issue here?	对于更大的问题在这里?
693	Would you conclude that therefore consent	因此,你是否认为同意
694	is a necessary condition of there being an obligation?	是否有义务的必要条件?
695	Absolutely.	当然
696	You would. What's your name?	你会的。你叫什么来着?
697	Nate.	内特
698	Because otherwise how can we know, Nate says,	否则我们怎么知道内特说
699	whether there has been an exchange	是否有交换
700	of equivalent or fair benefits?	同等利益还是公平利益?
701	Unless we have the subjective valuation,	除非我们有主观评价
702	which may vary one person to the next,	它可能使一个人与另一个人相异,
703	of the situation.	情况。
704	All right, that's a fair challenge.	好吧,这是一个公平的挑战。
705	Let me put to you one other example	让我给你举个例子
706	in order to test the relation between these two aspects	为了检验这两个方面之间的关系
707	of the morality of contracts.	合同的道德规范。
708	Suppose I get married,	如果我结婚了,
709	and suppose I discover	如果我发现
710	that after 20 years of faithfulness on my part,	经过我20年的忠诚
711	every year on our trip across the country,	每年我们出国旅行时
712	my wife has been seeing another man,	我妻子和另一个男人约会了
713	a man with a van on the Indiana toll road.	一个在印第安纳收费路上有面包车的人
714	This part is completely made up, by the way.	顺便说一句,这部分是完全编出来的。
715	Wouldn't I have two different reasons for moral outrage?	我是不是有两种不同的理由道德愤慨?
716	One reason could be we had an agreement.	一个原因可能是我们达成了协议
717	She broke her promise,	她违背了承诺
718	referring to the fact of her consent.	提到她同意的事实。
719	But I would also have a second ground for moral outrage,	但我也会有道德愤怒的第二个理由
720	having nothing to do with the contract as such,	与合同本身无关,
721	but I've been so faithful for my part.	但我一直很忠诚
722	Surely I deserve better than this.	我当然应该比这更好的
723	Is this what I'm due in return?	这就是我应得的回报吗?
724	And so on. So that would point to the element of reciprocity.	及诸众生. 因此,这将指向互惠的要素。
725	Each reason has an independent moral force.	每一种理由都有独立的道德力量.
726	That's the general point.	即是总论.
727	And you can see this, if you imagine a slight variation	你可以看到这一点, 如果你想象一个微小的变化
728	on the marriage case.	关于婚姻案件。
729	Suppose we hadn't been married for 20 years.	假设我们结婚20年了
730	Suppose we were just married,	假设我们刚结婚
731	and that the betrayal occurred	而背叛的发生
732	on the way to our honeymoon in Hammond, Indiana.	在去印第安纳州哈蒙德度蜜月的路上
733	After the contract has been made,	合同签订后
734	but before there is any history of performance on my part.	但在此之前,我有任何表现的历史。
735	Performance of the contract, I mean.	我是说合同的履行
736	I would still, oh come on, come on.	我还是会,哦,来吧,来吧。
737	I would still, with Julian, I'd be able to say,	我仍然会,与朱利安, 我可以说,
738	but you promised, you promised.	但你答应过,你答应过
739	That would isolate the pure element of consent, right?	那样会孤立同意的纯要素,对吧?
740	Where there were no benefit, never mind.	没有好处的地方,没关系
741	You get the idea.	你得到这个想法。
742	Here's the main idea.	这是主要的想法。
743	Actual contracts have their moral force	实际合同具有道德力量
744	in virtue of two distinguishable ideals.	依据两个可以区分的理想。
745	Autonomy and reciprocity.	自治与互惠.
746	But in real life, every actual contract may fall short,	但在现实生活中,每个实际的合同都可能不足,
747	may fail to realize the ideals that give contracts	可能无法实现给予合同的理想
748	their moral force in the first place.	他们的道德力量首先。
749	The ideal of autonomy may not be realized,	自治的理想可能无法实现,
750	because there may be a difference in the bargaining power	因为讨价还价的力量可能不同
751	of the parties.	通知各缔约方。
752	The ideal of reciprocity may not be realized,	互惠的理想可能无法实现,
753	because there may be a difference of knowledge	因为知识可能不同
754	between the parties.	在双方之间。
755	And so they may misidentify	这样他们就会误认
756	what really counts as having equivalent value.	真正的价值。
757	Now, suppose you were to imagine	现在,假设你想象
758	a contract where the ideals of autonomy	自治理想的契约
759	and of reciprocity were not subject to contingency,	以及互惠原则不受制于紧急情况,
760	but were guaranteed to be realized.	但保证会实现
761	What kind of contract would that have to be?	那会是什么合同?
762	Imagine a contract among parties	想象一下当事人之间的契约
763	who were equal in power and knowledge,	他们是平等的权力和知识的,
764	rather than unequal, who were identically situated	而不是不平等,他们的位置相同
765	rather than differently situated.	而不是不同的位置。
766	That is the idea behind Rawls's claim	这就是罗尔斯的主张背后的想法
767	that the way to think about justice	思考正义的方式
768	is from the standpoint of a hypothetical contract	从假设合同的角度
769	behind a veil of ignorance	在无知的面纱后面
770	that creates a condition of equality	创造平等条件
771	by ruling out or enabling us to forget for the moment	或让我们暂时忘记
772	the differences in power and knowledge	权力和知识的差异
773	that could, even in principle,	即使原则上,
774	lead to unfair results.	导致不公平的结果。
775	This is why, for Kant and for Rawls,	这就是为什么,对于康德和罗尔斯,
776	a hypothetical contract among equals	平等之间的假设合同
777	is the only way to think about principles of justice.	是思考正义原则的唯一途径。
778	What will those principles be?	这些原则是什么?
779	That's the question we'll turn to next time.	这就是我们下次要讨论的问题。
780	Thank you.	谢谢
781	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
782	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

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P10 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p10 9. 9.小心你的动机 (P10)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p10 9. 9.小心你的动机 (P10)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 55:14

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
0:06	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
0:30	Now we turn to the hardest philosopher we're going to read in this course.	现在我们转向在这个课程中要读的最难的哲学家.
0:38	Today we turn to Immanuel Kant, who offers a different account	今天我们找伊曼纽尔·康德他提供不同的说法
0:45	of why we have a categorical duty to respect the dignity of persons	我们为何有绝对义务尊重人的尊严?
0:51	and not to use people as means, merely.	而不以人为手段,
0:58	Even for good ends,	即使为了好的目的
1:01	Kant excelled at the University of Königsberg at the age of 16.	康德16岁在科尼斯贝格大学表现优异.
1:06	At the age of 31, he got his first job	31岁时,他得到了第一份工作
1:10	as an unsalaried lecturer paid on commission	作为无薪讲师支付佣金

展开字幕全文（604 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
2	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
3	Now we turn to the hardest philosopher we're going to read in this course.	现在我们转向在这个课程中要读的最难的哲学家.
4	Today we turn to Immanuel Kant, who offers a different account	今天我们找伊曼纽尔·康德他提供不同的说法
5	of why we have a categorical duty to respect the dignity of persons	我们为何有绝对义务尊重人的尊严?
6	and not to use people as means, merely.	而不以人为手段,
7	Even for good ends,	即使为了好的目的
8	Kant excelled at the University of Königsberg at the age of 16.	康德16岁在科尼斯贝格大学表现优异.
9	At the age of 31, he got his first job	31岁时,他得到了第一份工作
10	as an unsalaried lecturer paid on commission	作为无薪讲师支付佣金
11	based on the number of students who showed up at his lectures.	根据参加他讲座的学生人数。
12	This is a sensible system that Harvard would do well to consider.	这是一个明智的系统,哈佛会好好考虑的。
13	Luckily for Kant, he was a popular lecturer and also an industrious one,	幸好康德是个受欢迎的讲师也是一位杰出的讲师
14	and so he eked out a meager living.	于是他拿出了活下来的小人物
15	It wasn't until he was 57 that he published his first major work.	直到57岁他才出版了他的第一部主要作品.
16	But it was worth the wait.	但它值得等待。
17	The book was The Critique of Pure Reason,	这本书是"纯理性的批评"
18	perhaps the most important work in all of modern philosophy.	或许是现代哲学中最重要的作品
19	And a few years later,	几年之后,
20	Kant wrote The Groundwork for the Metaphysics of Morals,	康德写了《道德的元物理基础》
21	which we read in this course.	我们读了这个课程。
22	I want to acknowledge, even before we start,	我想承认甚至在我们开始之前
23	that Kant is a difficult thinker.	康德是一个困难的思想家。
24	But it's important to try to figure out what he's saying,	但重要的是要弄清楚他说什么
25	because what this book is about is,	因为这本书的内容是,
26	well, it's about what the supreme principle of morality is, number one.	这是关于道德的最高原则,第一。
27	And it's also, it gives us an account,	而且,它给我们一个账户,
28	one of the most powerful accounts we have, of what freedom really is.	我们拥有的最强大的说法之一, 自由到底是什么。
29	So, let me start today.	所以,让我从今天开始。
30	Kant rejects utilitarianism.	康德拒绝功利主义.
31	He thinks that the individual person, all human beings,	他认为个人,所有的人,
32	have a certain dignity that commands our respect.	有某种尊严,赢得我们的尊重。
33	The reason the individual is sacred, or the bearer of rights according to Kant,	个人是神圣的, 或根据康德拥有权利,
34	doesn't stem from the idea that we own ourselves,	不是因为我们拥有自己
35	but instead from the idea that we are all rational beings.	而不是认为我们都是理性的人
36	We're all rational beings, which simply means	我们都是理性的生物, 这仅仅是意味着
37	that we are beings who are capable of reason.	我们是有理智的人
38	We are also autonomous beings,	我们也是自主的人,
39	which is to say that we are beings capable of acting and choosing freely.	这就是说,我们是能够自由行事和选择的人。
40	Now, this capacity for reason and freedom isn't the only capacity we have.	这种理性和自由的能力并不是我们唯一的能力
41	We also have the capacity for pain and pleasure, for suffering and satisfaction.	我们还有能力承受痛苦和快乐,能够承受痛苦和满足。
42	Kant admits the utilitarians were half right.	康德承认功利主义者一半是对的.
43	Of course, we seek to avoid pain and we like pleasure.	当然,我们力求避免痛苦,我们喜欢快乐。
44	Kant doesn't deny this.	康德不否认这一点.
45	What he does deny is Benson's claim that pain and pleasure are our sovereign masters.	他否认的是本森声称痛苦和快乐是我们的主权主人
46	He thinks that's wrong.	他认为这是错误的。
47	Kant thinks that it's our rational capacity that makes us distinctive,	康德认为这是我们理性的能力使我们与众不同
48	that makes us special, that sets us apart from and above mere animal existence.	这让我们变得特别, 把我们与动物的存在分开。
49	It makes us something more than just physical creatures with appetites.	这让我们不只是有食欲的生物
50	Now, we often think of freedom as simply consisting in doing what we want,	现在,我们常常认为自由只是包含在做我们想要的,
51	or in the absence of obstacles to getting what we want.	或无障碍获得我们想要的东西。
52	That's one way of thinking about freedom.	这是对自由的一种思考方式.
53	But this isn't Kant's idea of freedom.	但这不是康德的自由思想.
54	Kant has a more stringent, demanding notion of what it means to be free.	康德对自由的意义有更严格,更严格的观念.
55	And though it's stringent and demanding, if you think it through,	虽然它严格和苛刻, 如果你仔细考虑,
56	it's actually pretty persuasive.	其实很有说服力
57	Kant reasons as follows.	康德的理由如下.
58	When we, like animals, seek after pleasure or the satisfaction of our desires	当我们像动物一样追求快乐或满足我们的欲望
59	or the avoidance of pain,	或避免痛苦,
60	when we do that, we aren't really acting freely.	当我们这样做的时候,我们并没有真正自由地行动。
61	Why not?	为什么不呢?
62	и痷琌 thosecm impulse
63	I didn't choose this particular hunger or that particular appetite.	我没有选择这种特殊的饥饿或那种特殊的食欲。
64	And so when I act to satisfy it, I'm just acting according to natural necessity.	所以当我行动满足它, 我只是根据自然的需要。
65	And for Kant, freedom is the opposite of necessity.	而对于康德来说,自由与必要性相反.
66	There was an advertising slogan for the soft drink Sprite a few years ago.	几年前出现了软饮料Sprite的广告口号.
67	The slogan was, obey your thirst.	口号是顺从你的口渴
68	There's a Kantian insight buried in that Sprite advertising slogan.	有康德的洞察力埋藏在斯普拉蒂广告口号里
69	That, in a way, is Kant's point.	在某种程度上,这是康德的观点。
70	When you go for Sprite or Pepsi,	当你去Sprite或百事可乐,
71	you might think that you're choosing freely Sprite versus Pepsi,	你可能会认为你是在自由选择斯普拉提和百事可乐
72	but you're actually obeying something, a thirst,	但你实际上在服从什么, 渴了,
73	or maybe a desire manufactured or massaged by advertising.	或者是广告制造或按摩的欲望
74	You're obeying a prompting that you yourself haven't chosen or created.	你在服从一个提示,即你自己没有选择或创造。
75	And here it's worth noticing Kant's specially demanding idea of freedom.	这里值得注意康德特别要求的自由思想.
76	What way of acting?	什么行动方式?
77	How can my will be determined if not by the promptings of nature	如果没有大自然的启示,我怎么会决定我的意志
78	or my hunger or my appetite or my desires?	还是我的饥渴或欲望?
79	Kant's answer, to act freely is to act autonomously.	康德的回答,自由行动就是自主行动.
80	And to act autonomously is to act according to a law that I give myself,	自主行动就是按照我给自己的法律行事
81	not according to the physical laws of nature or to the laws of cause and effect,	不符合自然实体法或因果法则,
82	which include my desire to eat or to drink or to choose this food in a restaurant over that.	包括我想吃喝或在餐厅里选择这种食物
83	Now, what is the opposite?	现在,什么是相反的?
84	What is the opposite of autonomy?	自治的反面是什么?
85	For Kant, he invents a special term to describe the opposite of autonomy.	对于康德来说,他发明了一个特殊的术语来描述自治的反面.
86	Heteronomy is the opposite of autonomy.	异体性与自主性相反.
87	When I act heteronomously, I'm acting according to an inclination	当我行为异常时,我表现的倾向
88	or a desire that I haven't chosen for myself.	或者我还没有为自己选择的欲望
89	So, freedom as autonomy is the specially stringent idea that Kant insists on.	因此,作为自主的自由是康德所坚持的特别严格的想法.
90	Now, why is autonomy the opposite of acting heteronomously or according to the dictates of nature?	现在,为什么自主性与异端行为或自然规律相反?
91	Kant's point is that nature is governed by laws, laws of cause and effect, for example.	康德的观点是,自然受到法律,因果法的制约,比如说.
92	Suppose you drop a billiard ball.	如果你掉了个台球的话
93	It falls to the ground.	坠于地.
94	We wouldn't say the billiard ball is acting freely.	我们不会说台球是自由的
95	Why not?	为什么不呢?
96	It's acting according to the law of nature, according to the laws of cause and effect,	依自然法则,因果法则,
97	according to the law of gravity.	根据重力法则。
98	And just as he has an unusually demanding and stringent conception of freedom,	就像他对自由有异乎寻常的要求和严格的概念一样,
99	freedom as autonomy,	作为自治的自由,
100	he also has a demanding conception of morality.	他也有严格的道德观念
101	To act freely is not to choose the best means to a given end.	自由行动不是选择达到某一目的的最佳手段。
102	It's to choose the end itself for its own sake.	是为自性而自选终.
103	And that's something that human beings can do and that billiard balls can't.	这是人类可以做的, 和台球不能。
104	Insofar as we act on inclination or pursue pleasure,	只要我们按倾向行事或追求快乐
105	we act as means to the realization of ends given outside us.	我们作为实现我们之外的目标的手段。
106	We are instruments rather than authors of the purposes we pursue.	我们是文书而不是我们所追求宗旨的作者。
107	That's the heteronomous determination of the will.	这就是意志的异质决定.
108	On the other hand, insofar as we act autonomously,	另一方面,就我们自主行事而言,
109	according to a law we give ourselves,	根据我们赋予自己的法律,
110	we do something for its own sake as an end in itself.	我们做一些事情是为了它本身的目的。
111	When we act autonomously,	当我们自主行事时,
112	we cease to be instruments to purposes given outside us.	我们不再是我们之外的目的的工具。
113	We become, or we can come to think of ourselves as ends in ourselves.	我们变成了,或者我们可以把自己当作我们自己的目的。
114	This capacity to act freely, Kant tells us,	康德告诉我们这种自由行动的能力
115	is what gives human life its special dignity.	就是给人类生命带来特殊尊严的东西。
116	Respecting human dignity means regarding persons not just as means,	尊重人的尊严不仅意味着对人采取手段,而且意味着:
117	but also as ends in themselves.	同时也是目的本身
118	And this is why it's wrong to use people	这就是为什么用人是不对的
119	for the sake of other people's well-being or happiness.	为了别人的福祉或幸福
120	This is the real reason, Kant says, that utilitarianism goes wrong.	康德说,这是功利主义错误的真正原因。
121	This is the reason it's important to respect the dignity of persons	这就是尊重人的尊严的重要原因
122	and to uphold their rights.	维护他们的权利。
123	So even if there are cases,	所以即使有案子发生
124	John Stuart Mill said, well, in the long run,	约翰·斯图尔特·米尔说,从长远来看,
125	if we uphold justice and respect the dignity of persons,	如果我们坚持正义和尊重人的尊严,
126	we will maximize human happiness.	我们将最大限度地实现人类幸福。
127	What would Kant's answer be to that?	康德的答案是什么?
128	What would his answer be?	他的答案会是什么?
129	Even if that were true,	即使那是真的,我还是会告诉你
130	even if the calculus worked out that way,	即使微积分是这样计算出来的
131	even if you shouldn't throw the Christians to the lions,	即使你不应该把基督徒扔给狮子
132	because in the long run, fear will spread,	因为从长远来看,恐惧将蔓延,
133	the overall utility will decline.	总的效用将下降。
134	The utilitarian would be upholding justice and rights	功利主义者将维护正义和权利
135	and respect for persons for the wrong reason,	并尊重有错误的理由的人,
136	for a purely contingent reason,	出于纯粹的或有原因
137	for an instrumental reason.	有个重要的原因
138	It would still be using people,	还会用人
139	even where the calculus works out for the best in the long run,	即便计算出长期最好的效果
140	it would still be using people as means,	它仍然会利用人作为手段,
141	rather than respecting them as ends in themselves.	而不是尊重它们本身的目的。
142	So, that's Kant's idea of freedom as autonomy,	所以,这是康德关于自由作为自治的想法,
143	and you can begin to see how it's connected to his idea of morality.	你可以看到这与他的道德观念有何关联
144	But we still have to answer one more question.	但我们还需要回答一个问题。
145	What gives an act its moral worth in the first place?	什么让一个行为它的道德价值首先?
146	If it can't be directed at utility or satisfying wants and desires,	如果它不能针对效用或满足欲望和欲望
147	what gives an action its moral worth?	是什么让行动具有道德价值?
148	This leads us from Kant's demanding idea of freedom	这让我们从康德要求的自由思想中解脱出来
149	to his demanding idea of morality.	他要求很高的道德观念。
150	What does Kant say?	康德怎么说?
151	What makes an action morally worthy	是什么使一个道德上值得采取的行动
152	consists not in the consequences or in the results that flow from it.	并不包括后果或由此产生的结果。
153	What makes an action morally worthy has to do with the motive,	道德上值得采取的行动与动机有关
154	with the quality of the will,	以遗嘱的质量,
155	with the intention for which the act is done.	行为意图。
156	What matters is the motive,	重要的是动机
157	and the motive must be of a certain kind.	动机必须是某种
158	So, the moral worth of an action depends on the motive for which it's done,	所以,一个行动的道德价值取决于它的动机是什么
159	and the important thing is that the person do the right thing for the right reason.	而重要的是,人做正确的事情是有道理的。
160	A good will isn't good because of what it affects or accomplishes, Kant writes.	康德写道:
161	It's good in itself.	其义自在.
162	Even if by its utmost effort the good will accomplishes nothing,	即使他尽了最大努力善良的意志一无所获
163	it would still shine like a jewel for its own sake	为了自己,它仍然会像珠宝一样闪耀
164	as something which has its full value in itself.	作为它本身具有充分价值的东西。
165	And so for any action to be morally good,	因此,任何行动道德好,
166	it's not enough that it should conform to the moral law,	仅仅遵守道德法则是不够的
167	it must also be done for the sake of the moral law.	也必须为了道德法而这样做。
168	The idea is that the motive confers the moral worth on an action.	这个想法是,动机赋予一项行动道德价值。
169	And the only kind of motive that can confer moral worth on an action	只有那种动机才能给行动带来道德价值
170	is the motive of duty.	是责任的动机。
171	Well, what's the opposite of doing something out of a sense of duty because it's right?	那么,什么是相反的做一些事情出于一种责任感,因为它是正确的?
172	Well, for Kant, the opposite would be all of those motives having to do with our inclinations.	对康德来说与我们倾向相关的动机正好相反
173	And inclinations refer to all of our desires,	倾角是指我们所有的欲望,
174	all of our contingently given wants, preferences, impulses and the like.	所有我们偶然得到的欲望,喜好,冲动等等。
175	Only actions done for the sake of the moral law, for the sake of duty,	只有为了道德法律为了责任
176	only these actions have moral worth.	只有这些行动才有道德价值。
177	Now I want to see what you think about this idea,	现在我想看看你对这个想法的看法
178	but first let's consider a few examples.	但首先让我们考虑几个例子。
179	Kant begins with an example of a shopkeeper.	康德从一个店主的例子开始.
180	He has to bring out the intuition and make plausible the idea	他必须拿出直觉使这个想法合理
181	that what confers moral worth on an action is that it be done because it's right.	使行动具有道德价值的是因为它是正确的。
182	He says suppose there's a shopkeeper and an inexperienced customer comes in,	他说如果有个店主和一个没经验的顾客进来
183	the shopkeeper knows that he could give the customer the wrong change,	店主知道他可以给客户错误的零钱,
184	could shortchange the customer and get away with it,	可以减少客户并逃脱它,
185	that at least that customer wouldn't know.	至少那个顾客不知道
186	But the shopkeeper nonetheless says,	不过店主还是说
187	well if I shortchange this customer, word may get out,	如果我少了这个顾客消息可能会传出去
188	my reputation would be damaged and I would lose business.	我的名声会受损,我会失去生意。
189	So I won't shortchange this customer.	所以我不会减少这个客户。
190	The shopkeeper does nothing wrong, he gives the correct change.	店主没有做错什么, 他给正确的改变。
191	But does his action have moral worth?	但他的行为有道德价值吗?
192	Kant says no, it doesn't have moral worth	康德说不,它没有道德价值
193	because the shopkeeper only did the right thing for the wrong reason,	因为店主做错事
194	out of self-interest.	出于自身利益.
195	That's a pretty straightforward case.	这案子很直接
196	Then he takes another case, the case of suicide.	然后他又接了一起自杀案
197	He says we have a duty to preserve ourselves.	他说我们有责任保护自己
198	Now for most people who love life,	现在,对于大多数热爱生命的人来说,
199	we have multiple reasons for not taking our own lives.	我们有很多理由不自杀
200	So the only way we can really tell,	所以只有这样我们才能知道
201	the only way we can isolate the operative motive	只有这样,我们才能分离行动动机
202	for someone who doesn't take his or her life	对于一个不夺命的人
203	is to think, to imagine someone who's miserable	思考,想象一个痛苦的人
204	and who despite having an absolutely miserable life,	他们虽有悲惨的生活,
205	nonetheless recognizes the duty to preserve oneself	但承认保护自己的义务
206	and so does not commit suicide.	所以不会自杀
207	The force of the example is to bring out the motive that matters.	例子的力量在于提出重要的动机。
208	And the motive that matters for morality is doing the right thing for the sake of duty.	而对于道德至关重要的动机,是为责任而做正确的事情.
209	Let me just give you a couple of other examples.	让我举几个其他例子。
210	The Better Business Bureau, what's their slogan?	更好的商业局,他们的口号是什么?
211	The slogan of the Better Business Bureau, honesty is the best policy.	更好的商业局的口号,诚实是最好的政策.
212	It's also the most profitable.	亦名最上利乐.
213	这是纽约时报的Better Business Bureau的整页广告.
214	Honesty, it's as important as any other asset	老实说这跟其他资产一样重要
215	because a business that deals in truth, openness and fair value cannot help but do well.	因为一个以真理、开放和公平价值为交易对象的企业只能做好事。
216	Come join us and profit from it.	来加入我们,从中获利。
217	What would Kant say about the moral worth of the honest dealings	康德会怎么说诚实交易的道德价值
218	of members of the Better Business Bureau? What would he say?	更佳商业局的成员? 他会说什么?
219	That here's a perfect example that if this is the reason	这是一个很好的例子如果这就是原因
220	that these companies deal honestly with their customers,	这些公司诚实地对待客户,
221	their action lacks moral worth. This is Kant's point.	他们的行动缺乏道德价值。这是康德的观点。
222	A couple of years ago at the University of Maryland there was a problem with cheating.	几年前在马里兰大学出现了欺骗的问题
223	And so they initiated an honor system	于是他们开始了一个荣誉制度
224	and they created a program with local merchants	他们和本地商人一起创造了一个计划
225	that if you signed the honor pledge, a pledge not to cheat,	如果你签了承诺书保证不作弊
226	you would get discounts of 10 to 25 percent at local shops.	当地商店会给你10%到25%的折扣
227	Well, what would you think of someone motivated	好吧,你会认为某人的动机
228	to uphold an honor code with the hope of discounts?	维护荣誉守则,希望折扣?
229	It's the same as Kant's shock keeper.	与康德震动持戒者同.
230	The point is, what matters is the quality of the will, the character of the motive	关键是遗嘱的质量动机的性质
231	and the relevant motive to morality can only be the motive of duty,	而道德的相关动机只能是责任的动机,
232	not the motive of inclination.	不是倾向的动机
233	And when I act out of duty,	当我失职时,
234	when I resist as my motive for acting inclinations or self-interest,	当我抗拒作为我的动机表现倾向或自我利益,
235	even sympathy and altruism,	甚至同情和利他主义,
236	only then am I acting freely,	只有这样我才能自由行动
237	only then am I acting autonomously,	只有这样,我才能自主行事,
238	only then is my will not determined or governed by external considerations.	只有这样,我的意志才不是由外部考虑决定或支配的。
239	That's the link between Kant's idea of freedom and of morality.	这就是康德的自由思想和道德思想之间的联系.
240	Now I want to pause here to see if all of this is clear	现在我想暂停一下看看这一切是否都清楚
241	or if you have some questions or puzzles.	或有些问题或谜题。
242	They can be questions of clarification or they can be challenges.	它们可以是澄清问题,也可以是挑战。
243	If you want to challenge this idea	如果你想挑战这个想法
244	that only the motive of duty confers moral worth on the action,	只有责任动机才能使行动具有道德价值,
245	what do you think? Yes.	你觉得呢? 对
246	Yeah, I actually have two questions of clarification.	是的,我实际上有两个问题需要澄清。
247	The first is, there seems to be an aspect of this that makes it sort of self-defeating	第一,这似乎有一个方面使它有点自负
248	in that once you're conscious of what morality is,	一旦你意识到道德是什么
249	you can sort of alter your motive to achieve that end of morality.	你可以改变你的动机去达到道德的目的
250	Give me an example of what you have in mind.	举个例子说明你在想什么
251	The shopkeeper example.	店主举例.
252	If he decides that he wants to give the person the money to do the right thing	如果他决定给他钱做正确的事
253	and he decides that's his motive to do so because he wants to be moral,	他决定这是他这样做的动机因为他想要道德,
254	then isn't that sort of defeating the purity of his action	那不是在挫败他的纯洁行为吗?
255	if morality is determined by his motive?	如果道德是由他的动机决定的呢?
256	His motive is then to act morally.	他的动机就是道德行事。
257	So you're imagining a case, not of the purely selfish calculating shopkeeper,	所以你在想象一个案子, 不是纯粹自私的计算店员,
258	but of one who says, well he may consider short-changing the customer,	但是,如果有人说, 他可能会考虑短期改变客户,
259	but then he says, not, well my reputation might suffer if word gets out,	但是他说如果消息传出去我的名声可能会受损
260	but instead he says, actually I would like to be the kind of honest person	但他却说其实我想成为那种诚实的人
261	who gives the right change to customers simply because it's the right thing to do.	他们给客户正确的改变只是因为它是正确的事情做。
262	Or simply because I want to be moral.	或者只是因为我想道德
263	Because I want to be moral.	因为我想成为道德的。
264	I want to be a good person.	我想成为一个好人。
265	And so I'm going to conform all of my actions to what morality requires.	所以我要把我所有的行动都符合道德要求
266	It's a subtle point. It's a good question.	微妙之义. 善问.
267	Kant does acknowledge, you're pressing Kant on an important point here,	康德确实承认了你在把康德逼到一个重要的地方
268	Kant does say there has to be some incentive to obey the moral law.	康德确实说过必须遵守道德法则
269	It can't be a self-interested incentive that would defeat it by definition.	这不可能是一种自利的激励,从定义上来说,是会打败它的.
270	So he speaks of a different kind of incentive from an inclination.	因此,他提到一种不同的激励与倾向。
271	He speaks of reverence for the moral law.	说敬重道德法.
272	So if that shopkeeper says, I want to develop a reverence for the moral law,	所以如果那个店主说我要对道德法则保持敬重
273	and so I'm going to do the right thing, then I think he's there.	所以我会做正确的事情,然后我想他在那里。
274	He's there as far as Kant's concerned.	在康德处.
275	Because he's formed his motive, his will is conforming to the moral law	因为他已经形成他的动机他的意志符合道德
276	once he sees the importance of it.	一旦他看到它的重要性。
277	So it would count. It would count.	这样就算数了它会算数。
278	And then secondly, very quickly,	然后,第二,非常迅速地,
279	what stops morality from becoming completely objective in this point?	是什么阻止道德成为完全客观在这一点上?
280	What stops morality from becoming subjective?	是什么阻止道德成为主观?
281	If morality is completely determined by your morals,	如果道德完全由你的道德决定
282	then how can you apply this or how can it be enforced?	那么,你如何应用这个方法,又如何加以执行?
283	That's also a great question. What's your name?	这也是个大问题。你叫什么来着?
284	My name is Ahmadi.	我叫艾哈迈迪
285	Ahmadi? All right.	阿迈迪? 好吧,我们走。
286	If acting morally means acting according to a moral law, out of duty,	如果道德行为意味着根据道德法行事,则出于职责考虑,
287	and if it's also to act freely in the sense of autonomously,	如果它也是在自主的意义上自由行动的,
288	it must mean that I'm acting according to a law that I give myself.	这一定意味着我的行为符合我给自己的法律
289	That's what it means to act autonomously.	自主行动就是这个意思.
290	Ahmadi is right about that.	艾哈迈迪说得对
291	But that does raise a really interesting question.	这确实引起了一个非常有趣的问题。
292	If acting autonomously means acting according to a law I give myself,	如果独立行事意味着按照我赋予自己的法律行事
293	that's how I escape the chain of cause and effect and the laws of nature.	这就是我如何逃脱因果关系链和自然法则。
294	What's to guarantee that the law I give myself when I'm acting out of duty	何以能保证我失职时给自己的法律
295	is the same as the law that Ahmadi is giving himself?	和艾哈迈迪给自己的法律一样吗?
296	And that each of you gives yourselves.	而你们各自奉献给自己。
297	Well, here's the question.	问题是...
298	How many moral laws, from Kant's point of view, are there in this room?	从康德看,这房间有多少道德法则?
299	Are there a thousand or is there one?	有一千还是有一千?
300	He thinks there's one, which in a way does go back to this question.	他认为,有一个, 在某种程度上,它确实回到这个问题。
301	All right, what is the moral law? What does it tell us?	好吧,什么是道德法则? 它告诉我们什么?
302	So what guarantees...	那么,什么保证...
303	It sounds like to act autonomously is to act according to one's conscience,	这听起来像自主行动是根据一个人的良心行事,
304	according to a law one gives oneself.	根据法律规定,
305	But what guarantees that if we all exercise our reason,	但是,什么保证如果我们都行使我们的理由,
306	we will come up with one and the same moral law?	我们会想出同样的道德法则吗?
307	That's what Ahmadi wants to know.	这就是艾哈迈迪想知道的
308	Here's Kant's answer.	这是康德的答案。
309	The reason that leads us to the law we give ourselves as autonomous beings	导致我们走向法律的原因我们把自己作为自主的生物
310	is a reason, it's a kind of practical reason that we share as human beings.	这是一个原因,这是一个实际的原因我们作为人类共享。
311	It's not idiosyncratic.	亦非仪轨.
312	The reason we need to respect the dignity of persons is that we're all rational beings.	我们需要尊重人格尊严的原因是,我们都是理性的生物.
313	We all have the capacity for reason.	我们都有理智的能力。
314	And it's the exercise of that capacity for reason,	而这是行使这种能力的原因,
315	which exists undifferentiated in all of us,	我们无差别地存在,
316	that makes us worthy of dignity, all of us,	这让我们值得尊严,我们所有人,
317	and since it's the same capacity for reason,	由於理性的能力是一样的
318	unqualified by particular autobiographies and life circumstances,	特定自传和生活环境不合格,
319	it's the same universal capacity for reason that delivers the moral law.	同样的普适能力是理性的,能传递道德法则.
320	It turns out that to act autonomously is to act according to a law	事实证明,自主行动就是依法行动
321	we give ourselves, exercising our reason,	我们给自己,行使我们的理由,
322	but it's the reason we share with everyone as rational beings.	但这就是我们与每个人共享理性的原因
323	It's not the particular reasons we have given our upbringings,	这不是我们养育自己的原因
324	our particular values, our particular interests.	我们的价值观,我们的特殊利益
325	It's pure practical reason in Kant's terms,	这纯粹是康德的实用理由
326	which legislates a priori,	立法先验,
327	regardless of any particular contingent or empirical ends.	不论任何特定或经验目的。
328	Well, what moral law would that kind of reason deliver?	那么,什么道德法会那种理由产生?
329	What is its content?	内容是什么?
330	To answer that question, you have to read the groundwork,	要回答这个问题,你得读一下基础
331	and we'll continue with that question next time.	下次我们再继续提问
332	For Kant, morally speaking, suicide is on a par with murder.	对康德来说,道德上来说,自杀等同于谋杀。
333	It's on a par with murder because what we violate,	这跟谋杀是等同的因为我们违反了
334	when we take a life, when we take someone's life,	当我们夺去生命, 当我们夺去某人的生命,
335	ours or somebody else's,	我们或别人的,
336	we use that person, we use a rational being,	我们利用那个人我们利用理性的存在
337	we use humanity as a means,	我们利用人类作为手段,
338	and so we fail to respect humanity as an end.	因此,我们不尊重人类作为目的。
339	Today we turn back to Kant before we do...	今天我们回到康德之前...
340	Remember, this is the week by the end of which	记住,今天是周末
341	all of you will basically get Kant, figure out what he's up to.	你们基本上都会得到康德, 找出他在做什么。
342	You're laughing. No, it will happen.	你在笑吗? 不,它会发生的。
343	Kant's groundwork is about two big questions.	康德的基础工作涉及两个大问题.
344	First, what is the supreme principle of morality?	第一,道德的最高原则是什么?
345	Second, how is freedom possible?	第二,如何实现自由?
346	Two big questions.	二大问.
347	Now, one way of making your way through this dense philosophical book	现在,用一种方法让你通过这个密集的哲学书籍
348	is to bear in mind a set of oppositions or contrasts or dualisms that are related.	是要记住一系列相关的反对或对比或二元论.
349	Today I'd like to talk about them.	今天我想谈谈
350	Today we're going to answer the question, what, according to Kant,	今天我们要回答这个问题康德说
351	is the supreme principle of morality?	道德的最高原则吗?
352	And in answering that question, in working our way up to Kant's answer to that question,	在回答这个问题时,在努力完成康德的回答时,
353	it will help to bear in mind three contrasts or dualisms that Kant sets out.	它将有助于铭记康德提出的三种对比或二元论。
354	The first, you'll remember, had to do with the motive according to which we act.	首先,你会记得, 和我们的行为动机有关。
355	And according to Kant, only one kind of motive is consistent with morality,	康德说只有一种动机符合道德
356	the motive of duty, doing the right thing for the right reason.	负责的动机, 做正确的事情为正确的理由。
357	What other kind of motives are there?	还有什么其他动机?
358	Kant sums them up in the category of inclination.	康德把它们归为倾斜类
359	Every time the motive for what we do is to satisfy a desire or a preference	每次我们这样做的动机都是满足欲望或偏好
360	that we may have to pursue some interest, we're acting out of inclination.	我们可能不得不追求一些兴趣, 我们的行为出于倾向。
361	Now, let me pause to see if in thinking about the question of the motive of duty,	现在,让我暂停一下,看看在思考责任的动机问题时,
362	the good will, see if any of you has a question about that much of Kant's claim.	看你们有没有人质疑康德的主张
363	Or is everybody happy with this distinction?	还是每个人都喜欢这种区别?
364	What do you think? Go ahead.	你觉得呢? 来吧。
365	When you make that distinction between duty and inclination,	当你把责任和倾向区分开来
366	is there ever any moral action ever?	有没有道德行为?
367	I mean, you could always kind of probably find some selfish motive, can't you?	我的意思是,你总是可以找到一些自私的动机,不是吗?
368	Maybe very often people do have self-interested motives when they act.	也许人们在行动时确实有自利的动机.
369	Kant wouldn't dispute that.	康德不会反对的
370	But what Kant is saying is that insofar as we act morally,	但康德的意思是只要我们的行为合乎道德
371	that is, insofar as our actions have moral worth,	也就是说,只要我们的行动具有道德价值,
372	what confers moral worth is precisely our capacity to rise above self-interest	赋予道德价值的正是我们超越自身利益的能力
373	and prudence and inclination and to act out of duty.	以及谨慎和倾向和不履行职责。
374	Some years ago I read about a spelling bee,	几年前我读到一个拼写蜜蜂
375	and there was a young man who was declared the winner of the spelling bee.	有个年轻人被宣布为拼音蜜蜂的赢家
376	A kid named Andrew, 13 years old.	一个叫安德鲁的孩子,13岁。
377	The winning word, the word that he was able to spell was echolalia.	胜利的词, 他能够拼出的话是回声拉莉娅。
378	Does anyone know what echolalia is?	有人知道什么是回声拉莉亚吗?
379	What? It's not some type of flower, no?	你说什么? 这不是某种花,不是吗?
380	It means the tendency to repeat as an echo, to repeat what you've heard.	意思是重复作为回声的倾向,重复你听到的.
381	Anyhow, he misspelled it, actually.	无论如何,他拼错了,其实。
382	But the judges misheard him.	但法官们听错了他
383	They thought he had spelled it correctly and awarded him the championship of the National Spelling Bee.	他们认为他拼的正确,并授予他全国拼音蜜蜂的冠军.
384	And he went to the judges afterward and said,	然后他去找法官说
385	actually, I misspelled it. I don't deserve the prize.	其实我拼错了我不值得奖项。
386	And he was regarded as a moral hero.	他被视为道德英雄
387	And he was written up in the New York Times,	他被写在纽约时报,
388	Misspeller是拼写蜜蜂英雄.
389	There's Andrew, with his proud mother.	这是安德鲁,和他骄傲的母亲。
390	And when he was interviewed afterwards,	当他接受采访后,
391	listen to this, when he was interviewed afterwards,	听着,当他接受采访后,
392	he said, quote, the judges said I had a lot of integrity.	他说,引用, 法官说我有很多正直。
393	But then he added that part of his motive was, quote,	但后来他又说他的部分动机是
394	I didn't want to feel like a slime.	我不想觉得像粘液。
395	All right, what would Kant say?	好吧,康德会怎么说?
396	Go ahead.	来吧。
397	I guess it would depend on whether or not that was a marginal reason or the predominant reason	我想这要看这是否是次要原因还是主要原因
398	and why he decided to confess that he didn't actually spell the word correctly.	以及他为什么决定承认他实际上没有正确拼写这个词。
399	Good. And what's your name?	不错你叫什么来着?
400	Vasco.	- 瓦斯科 - 瓦斯科 - Vasco.
401	That's very interesting.	这很有趣。
402	Is there anyone else who has a view about this?	还有谁对此有看法吗?
403	Does this show that Kant's principle is too stringent, too demanding?	这是否表明康德的原则太严格,要求太高?
404	What would Kant say about this?	康德会怎么说?
405	Yes.	对
406	I think that Kant actually says that it is the pure motivation that comes out of duty,	我认为康德实际上说, 纯粹的动机是出于职责,
407	which gives the action moral worth.	这使得行动道德价值。
408	So it's like, for example, in this case, he might have more than one motive.	所以,比如说,在这种情况下,他可能有不止一个动机.
409	He might have the motive of not feeling like a slime,	他的动机可能是感觉不像粘液
410	and he might have the motive of doing the right thing in and of itself out of duty.	而且他可能有动机做正确的事情和本身的失职。
411	And so while there's more than one motivation going on there,	所以,虽然有不止一个动机在那里,
412	does not mean that the action is devoid of moral worth just because he has one other motive.	这并不意味着,仅仅因为他有另一个动机,这一行动就没有道德价值。
413	Because the motive, which involves duty, is what gives it moral worth.	因为动机,包括义务, 给了它道德价值。
414	Good. And what's your name?	不错你叫什么来着?
415	Judith.	朱迪丝
416	Well, Judith, I think that your account actually is true to Kant.	嗯,朱迪思,我认为你的帐户是真的康德。
417	It's fine to have sentiments and feelings that support doing the right thing,	有支持做正确事情的感情和感觉是好的
418	provided they don't provide the reason for acting.	只要他们不提供行动的理由。
419	So I think Judith actually has mounted a pretty good defense of Kant	所以我认为朱迪思确实为康德做了很好的辩护
420	on this question of the motive of duty. Thank you.	关于责任动机的问题。谢谢
421	Now, let's go back to the three contrasts.	现在,让我们回到三个对比点。
422	It's clear at least what Kant means when he says that for an action to have moral worth,	康德说要有道德价值的话到底是什么意思
423	it must be done for the sake of duty, not out of inclination.	这样做必须出于职责,而不是出于倾向。
424	But as we began to see last time,	但我们上次看到的时候
425	there's a connection between Kant's stringent notion of morality	康德的严格道德观念有联系
426	and his specially demanding understanding of freedom.	以及他对自由特别要求的理解。
427	And that leads us to the second contrast, the link between morality and freedom.	这导致了第二个对比,道德和自由之间的联系。
428	The second contrast describes two different ways that my will can be determined,	第二个对比点描述了两种不同的方式我的意志可以被确定,
429	autonomously and heteronomously.	自主和无节制。
430	And according to Kant, I'm only free when my will is determined autonomously,	康德说,我只有在意志自主决定时才自由
431	which means what? According to a law that I give myself.	这是什么意思? 根据我给自己的法律
432	We must be capable, if we're capable of freedom as autonomy,	我们必须有能力,如果我们能自由作为自治,
433	we must be capable of acting according not to a law that's given or imposed on us,	我们一定能够不按照法律的行为给我们或强加于我们,
434	but according to a law we give ourselves.	但根据法律,我们给自己。
435	But where could such a law come from, a law that we give ourselves?	但这种法律能从何而来,我们给自己的法律?
436	Reason.	缘由.
437	If reason determines my will,	如果理智决定了我的意志
438	then the will becomes the power to choose independent of the dictates of nature	然后意志就成为了独立于自然支配的力量
439	or inclination or circumstance.	或倾向或情况。
440	So, connected with Kant's demanding notions of morality and freedom	所以,与康德要求的道德和自由观念有关
441	is a specially demanding notion of reason.	这是一个特别严格的理性概念。
442	Well, how can reason determine the will?	那么,如何理性决定遗嘱?
443	There are two ways, and this leads to the third contrast.	有两种方式,这导致了第三种对比.
444	Kant says there are two different commands of reason.	康德说理性有两个不同的指令.
445	In a command of reason, Kant calls an imperative.	在理智的命令中,康德称必须.
446	An imperative is simply an ought.	当务之急是应当做到的。
447	One kind of imperative, perhaps the most familiar kind, is a hypothetical imperative.	一种必要,也许是最熟悉的,是假设的必要。
448	Hypothetical imperatives use instrumental reason.	假设的必须用工具性的理由。
449	If you want X, then do Y.	如果你想要X,那就做Y.
450	Its means ends reasoning.	它意味着结束推理。
451	If you want a good business reputation,	如果你想要一个良好的商业声誉,
452	then don't shortchange your customers, word may get out.	然后不要少交换你的客户, 消息可能会传出去。
453	That's a hypothetical imperative.	这是一个假设的必然。
454	If the action would be good solely as a means to something else,	如果这个行动只是用来做别的东西
455	Kant writes the imperative is hypothetical.	康德写道当务之急是假设。
456	If the action is represented as good in itself,	如果行动本身是好的
457	and therefore as necessary for a will which of itself accords with reason,	因此,为了符合理智的意志,
458	then the imperative is categorical.	那么,当务之急是绝对的。
459	That's the difference between a categorical imperative and a hypothetical one.	这就是绝对必要和假设的区别.
460	A categorical imperative commands categorically,	绝对必要命令,
461	which just means without reference to or dependence on any further purpose.	仅仅意味着不提及或依赖任何其他目的。
462	And so you see the connection among these three parallel contrasts.	所以你可以看到这三种平行对比之间的关联。
463	To be free in the sense of autonomous requires that I act not out of a hypothetical imperative,	要获得自主意义上的自由就需要我的行为不出于假设的迫切性
464	but out of a categorical imperative.	但出于绝对必要
465	And so you see by these three contrasts,	你从这三种对比来看,
466	Kant reasons his way, brings us up to his derivation of the categorical imperative.	康德解释他的原因,让我们了解他提出的绝对要求。
467	Well, this leaves us one big question.	这给我们留了一个大问题
468	What is the categorical imperative?	有什么绝对必要?
469	What is the supreme principle of morality?	道德的最高原则是什么?
470	What does it command of us?	它命令我们做什么?
471	Kant gives three versions, three formulations of the categorical imperative.	康德给出了3个版本,3个表述的绝对必要.
472	I want to mention two and then see what you think of them.	我想提到两个,然后看看你怎么看他们。
473	The first version, the first formula, he calls the formula of the universal law.	第一个版本,第一个公式,他称为普世法的公式.
474	Act only on that maxim, whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.	只能根据这一准则行事,据此,你能够同时成为一项普遍的法律。
475	And by maxim, what does Kant mean?	以格言来说,康德是什么意思?
476	He means a rule that explains the reason for what you're doing, a principle.	他指的是解释你所作所为的原因的规则,一个原则.
477	For example, promise keeping.	例如,承诺遵守。
478	Suppose I need money, I need $100, desperately.	如果我需要钱,我需要100美元,非常需要
479	And I know I can't pay it back anytime soon.	我知道我不能马上还钱
480	I come to you and make you a promise, a false promise, one I know I can't keep.	我来到你面前,给你一个承诺,一个虚假的承诺,一个我知道我不能遵守的.
481	Please give me $100 today, lend me the money, I will repay you next week.	请今天给我100美元,借我钱, 我下周会还你.
482	Is that consistent with the categorical imperative, that false promise?	这是否符合绝对必要,即虚假的承诺?
483	Kant says no.	康德说不行
484	In the test, the way we can determine that the false promise is at odds with the categorical imperative is	在测试中,我们能够确定虚假承诺与绝对必要条件不符的方法是:
485	try to universalize it.	尝试普及它。
486	Universalize the maxim upon which you're about to act.	普及你将要行动的格言
487	If everybody made false promises when they needed money, then nobody would believe those promises.	如果每个人都在需要钱时作出虚假承诺,那么没有人会相信这些承诺。
488	There would be no such thing as a promise.	誓愿无此.
489	And so there would be a contradiction.	因而会出现矛盾.
490	The maxim universalized would undermine itself.	普遍化的原则会损害自己。
491	That's the test.	这就是测试。
492	That's how we can know that the false promise is wrong.	这样我们才能知道虚假承诺是错误的.
493	Well, what about the formula of the universal law?	那么,世界法的公式呢?
494	You find it persuasive?	你觉得有说服力吗?
495	What do you think?	你觉得呢?
496	Go ahead.	来吧。
497	I have a question about the difference between categoricalism and a hypothesis that if you're going to act...	我有一个问题绝对主义和假设的区别如果你要采取行动...
498	Between categorical and hypothetical imperatives.	介于绝对和假设的要务之间。
499	Right.	对
500	If you're going to act with a categorical imperative so that the maxim doesn't undermine itself,	如果你要用绝对的强制力行动以免圣旨破坏自己
501	it sounds like I am going to do X because I want Y.	听起来我要做X 因为我想要Y
502	I am going to not lie in dire need because I want the world to function in such a way that promises are kept.	我将不会因为迫切需要而躺下,因为我希望世界的运作方式能够兑现诺言。
503	I don't want to liquidate the practice of promises.	我不想清算承诺的实践。
504	Right.	对
505	It sounds like justifying a means by an ends.	听起来像是以某种目的为手段辩护
506	It seems like an instance of consequentialist reasoning.	这似乎是一个间接推理的例子。
507	Right.	对
508	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
509	Tim.	蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆
510	Well, Tim, John Stuart Mill agreed with you.	蒂姆约翰·斯图尔特·米尔同意你的意见
511	He made this criticism of Kant.	他这样批评康德.
512	He said, if I universalize the maxim and find that the whole practice of promise keeping would be destroyed if universalized,	他说,如果我实现普世化,发现如果普世化,遵守诺言的整个做法就会被摧毁,
513	I must be appealing somehow to consequences.	我一定在呼吁后果
514	Right.	对
515	If that's the reason, not to tell a false promise.	如果这就是原因, 不要告诉一个虚假的承诺。
516	So John Stuart Mill agreed with that criticism against Kant.	因此约翰·斯图亚特·米尔(John Stuart Mill)同意对康德的批评.
517	But John Stuart Mill was wrong.	但约翰·斯图尔特·米尔错了
518	You're in good company though.	不过你是好人
519	You're in good company, Tim.	你关系很好,蒂姆
520	Kant has often read, as Tim just read him,	康德经常读, 因为蒂姆刚刚读到他,
521	as appealing to consequences.	对后果有吸引力。
522	The world would be worse off if everybody lied because then no one could rely on anybody else's word.	如果所有人都撒谎,世界会更糟糕,因为没有人可以相信别人的话。
523	Therefore, you shouldn't lie.	因此,你不应该撒谎。
524	That's not what Kant is saying exactly.	康德不是这么说的
525	Although it's easy to interpret him as saying that.	虽然他很容易被诠释为这么说的.
526	I think what he's saying is that this is the test.	我想他说的是这是测试
527	This is the test of whether the maxim corresponds with the categorical imperative.	这是对准则是否与绝对必要相符的检验。
528	It isn't exactly the reason.	这不是原因
529	It's not the reason.	这不是原因。
530	The reason you should universalize to test your maxim is to see whether you are privileging your particular needs and desires over everybody else's.	你应该普及来测试你的格言是为了看看你是否将自己的特殊需求和欲望置于别人的特权之下
531	It's a way of pointing to this feature, this demand of the categorical imperative.	这是一种指向这个特征的方法,这个绝对必要的需求.
532	That the reasons for your actions shouldn't depend for their justification on your interests, your needs, your special circumstances being more important than somebody else's.	你行动的原因不应该取决于他们的理由取决于你的利益你的需要你的特殊情况比别人更重要
533	That, I think, is the moral intuition lying behind the universalization test.	我认为,这是普遍性检验背后的道德直觉。
534	So let me spell out the second, Kant's second version of the categorical imperative, perhaps in a way that's more intuitively accessible than the formula of universal law.	因此,让我来阐述第二,康德的第二版本的绝对必要,或许是以一种比普遍法的公式更直观易懂的方式.
535	It's the formula of humanity as an end.	是以人道为终.
536	Kant introduces the second version of the categorical imperative with the following line of argument.	康德用以下的论据提出了绝对要求的第二稿。
537	We can't base the categorical imperative on any particular interests, purposes or ends.	我们不能把绝对必要建立在任何特定的利益、目的或目的上。
538	Because then it would be only relative to the person whose ends they were.	因为那样的话,它只会是相对于他们的目的所在的人。
539	But suppose there were something whose existence has in itself an absolute value, an end in itself.	但假设存在的东西本身就具有绝对价值,即目的本身.
540	Then in it, and in it alone, would there be the ground of a possible categorical imperative.	然后,在其中,而且仅在其中,就会有可能绝对必要的理由。
541	Well, what is there that we can think of as having its end in itself?	那么,有什么我们可以认为它本身有它的目的吗?
542	Kant's answer is this.	康德的回答是这个.
543	I say that man, and in general every rational being, exists as an end in himself.	我说,这个人, 总的来说, 每一个理性的存在, 存在作为自己的目的。
544	Not merely as a means for arbitrary use by this or that will.	不仅仅是作为任意使用的手段被这种或那种意愿。
545	And here Kant distinguishes between persons on the one hand and things on the other.	这里康德将人和事物区分开来.
546	Rational beings are persons.	理性众生是众生.
547	They don't just have a relative value for us, but if anything has they have an absolute value, an intrinsic value.	它们不仅对我们有相对价值,而且如果有任何东西具有绝对价值,就具有内在价值.
548	That is, rational beings have dignity.	也就是说,理性的人有尊严。
549	They're worthy of reverence and respect.	他们值得尊敬和尊重。
550	This line of reasoning leads Kant to the second formulation of the categorical imperative, which is this.	这种推理方法导致康德得出了"绝对必要"的第二种提法,这就是这个.
551	Act in such a way that you always treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other,	行动的方式,你总是对待人道,无论是以你个人,还是以任何其他人,
552	never simply as a means, but always at the same time as an end.	永远不是简单的手段,而是永远同时作为目的。
553	So that's the formula of humanity as an end.	这就是人类的结局
554	The idea that human beings as rational beings are ends in themselves, not open to use, merely as a means.	人类作为理性生物的观念本身就是目的,不能开放使用,只是作为一种手段而已.
555	When I make a false promise to you, I'm using you as a means to my ends, to my desire for the hundred dollars.	臣当假约之,以汝为本,欲以百元为本.
556	And so I'm failing to respect you.	所以我没有尊重你
557	I'm failing to respect your dignity.	我没尊重你的尊严
558	I'm manipulating you.	我在操纵你
559	Now consider the example of the duty against suicide.	现在考虑一下防止自杀的责任的例子。
560	Murder and suicide are at odds with the categorical imperative. Why?	谋杀和自杀与绝对必要不符。为什么?
561	If I murder someone, I'm taking their life for some purpose, either because I'm a hired killer	如果我杀了人,我为了某种目的夺走他们的生命, 要么是因为我是一个雇佣杀手
562	or I'm in the throes of some great anger or passion.	或者我陷入了某种愤怒或激情的折磨之中
563	Well, I have some interest, some purpose that's particular for the sake of which I'm using them as a means.	嗯,我有一些兴趣, 一些目的,特别的为了这个原因,我用它们作为手段。
564	Murder violates the categorical imperative.	谋杀违反了绝对必要。
565	For Kant, morally speaking, suicide is on a par with murder.	对康德来说,道德上来说,自杀等同于谋杀。
566	It's on a par with murder because what we violate when we take a life, when we take someone's life, ours or somebody else's,	这和谋杀是等同的,因为当我们夺去生命,当我们夺去别人的生命,我们或者其他人的生命时,我们所违反的,
567	we use that person, we use a rational being, we use humanity as a means.	我们利用那个人我们利用理性的存在我们利用人性作为一种手段
568	And so we fail to respect humanity as an end.	因此,我们不尊重人道作为目的。
569	And that capacity for reason, that humanity that commands respect, that is the ground of dignity,	而这种能力是有道理的, 人类是值得尊重的, 是尊严的基础,
570	that humanity, that capacity for reason, resides undifferentiated in all of us.	人类,这种理性的能力,在我们所有人中是毫无区别的。
571	And so I violate that dignity in my own person if I commit suicide	所以,如果我自杀,我侵犯我的尊严
572	and in murder if I take somebody else's life.	如果我夺走别人的性命就会被谋杀
573	From a moral point of view, they're the same.	从道德上看,两者是相同的.
574	And the reason they're the same has to do with the universal character and ground of the moral law.	而两者相同的原因也与道德法的普遍性格和基础有关.
575	The reason that we have to respect the dignity of other people has not to do with anything in particular about them.	我们必须尊重他人尊严的原因与任何具体与他们无关。
576	And so respect, Kantian respect, is unlike love in this way.	因此,尊重,康德的尊重, 不同爱的方式。
577	It's unlike sympathy.	这不像同情心
578	It's unlike solidarity or fellow feeling or altruism.	这与团结或同伴感情或利他主义不同.
579	Because love and those other particular virtues or reasons for caring about other people have to do with who they are in particular.	因为爱和其他特殊美德或关心他人的原因都与他们的身份有关
580	But respect for Kant.	但尊重康德.
581	Respect is respect for humanity which is universal, for a rational capacity which is universal.	尊重是对人类的普遍尊重,是对普遍的合理能力的尊重。
582	And that's why violating it, in my own case, is as objectionable as violating it in the case of any other.	这就是为什么违反它,就我个人来说, 和违反它一样,在任何其他情况下。
583	Questions or objections?	问题还是反对?
584	Go ahead.	来吧。
585	I guess I'm somewhat worried about Kant's statement that you cannot use a person as a means because every person is an end in and of themselves.	我想我有点担心康德的说法,你不能把一个人当作手段,因为每个人都是他们自己的目的.
586	Because it seems that every day in order to get something accomplished for that day, I must use myself as a means to some end.	因为看来,为了在那一天取得成就,我每天都必须利用自己来达到某种目的。
587	And I must use the people around me as a means to some end as well.	我必须把周围的人当作实现某种目的的手段。
588	For instance, suppose that I want to do well in a class and I have to write a paper.	比如说,假设我想在课堂上做得很好我必须写一篇论文。
589	I have to use myself as a means to write the paper.	我得用自己来写论文
590	Suppose I want to buy something, food.	如果我想买点东西,食物。
591	I must go to the store and use the person working behind the counter as a means for me to purchase my food.	我必须去店里利用柜台后面的人来买我的食物
592	Right. That's true. You do. What's your name?	对没错没错你叫什么来着?
593	Patrick.	派屈克派屈克派屈克
594	Patrick, you're not doing anything wrong.	帕特里克你没做错什么
595	You're not violating the categorical imperative when you use other people as means.	你用别人作为手段并不违反绝对的要求
596	That's not objectionable provided when we deal with other people for the sake of advancing our projects and purposes and interests,	我们为了推进我们的项目、目的和利益而与其他人打交道,这是不容反对的,
597	which we all do, provided we treat them in a way that is consistent with respect for their dignity.	我们都这样做,只要我们对待他们的方式符合尊重他们的尊严。
598	And what it means to respect them is given by the categorical imperative.	尊重它们的意义在于绝对必要。
599	Are you persuaded?	你被说服了吗?
600	Do you think that Kant has given a compelling account, a persuasive account of the supreme principle of morality?	你认为康德给出了令人信服的陈述,对道德至高无上原则的令人信服的陈述吗?
601	Reread the groundwork and we'll try to answer that question next time.	重读基础我们下次会试着回答这个问题
602	Thank you very much.	谢谢
603	Funding for this program is provided by additional funding provided by	本方案的资金由下列机构提供:
604	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:

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P11 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p11 10. 10.好公民 (P11)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p11 10. 10.好公民 (P11)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 54:46

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	We turn to Aristotle	我们转向亚里士多德
0:12	after	之后
0:14	examining	检查
0:15	theories,	理论,
0:20	modern theories of justice	现代司法理论
0:24	that tried to detach	试图分离
0:28	theories of justice and rights from questions of moral desert and virtue.	正义和权利理论从道德和德行问题。
0:34	Aristotle	亚里士多德
0:37	disagrees with Kant and Rawls.	与康德和罗尔斯意见不一.
0:43	Aristotle argues that justice is a matter of giving people what they deserve.	亚里士多德认为,正义是给予人们应得的.

展开字幕全文（1040 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	We turn to Aristotle	我们转向亚里士多德
2	after	之后
3	examining	检查
4	theories,	理论,
5	modern theories of justice	现代司法理论
6	that tried to detach	试图分离
7	theories of justice and rights from questions of moral desert and virtue.	正义和权利理论从道德和德行问题。
8	Aristotle	亚里士多德
9	disagrees with Kant and Rawls.	与康德和罗尔斯意见不一.
10	Aristotle argues that justice is a matter of giving people what they deserve.	亚里士多德认为,正义是给予人们应得的.
11	And the central idea	和中心思想
12	of Aristotle's theory of justice	亚里士多德的正义理论
13	is that	这是
14	in reasoning about justice and rights	司法与权利的推理
15	we have unavoidably	我们有不可避免
16	to reason about	以解释
17	the purpose or the end or the kilos	目的或终点或公斤
18	of social practices and institutions.	社会做法和机构。
19	Yes, justice requires giving equal things to equal persons but the question immediately arises	是的,正义要求给予平等的人平等的东西,但立即产生问题。
20	in any debate about justice	在任何关于司法的辩论中
21	equal in what respect?	在什么方面平等?
22	And Aristotle says we	亚里士多德说
23	need to fill in the answer to that question	需要填写对该问题的答复
24	by looking	通过查找
25	to the characteristic end	到特性端
26	or the essential nature or the purpose	或基本性质或目的
27	of the thing we're distributing and so we discussed Aristotle's example of flutes who should get the best flutes	我们讨论过亚里士多德的笛子的例子应该有最好的笛子
28	and Aristotle's answer was the best flute players.	亚里士多德的回答是最好的笛手
29	The best flute player should get the best flute	最好的笛手应该有最好的笛子
30	because that's a way of honoring	因为那是一种尊重的方式
31	the excellence	卓越
32	of flute playing.	吹着笛子
33	It's a way of rewarding the virtue	这是奖励功德的方法
34	of the great flute player.	伟大的笛手。
35	What's interesting though	有趣的东西
36	and this is what we're going to explore today	这就是我们今天要探索的
37	is that	这是
38	it's not	这不是
39	quite so easy to dispense with teleological reasoning	这么容易就不用讲心术了
40	when we're thinking about	当我们在想
41	social institutions	社会机构
42	and political practices.	政治实践。
43	In general it's hard to do without teleology when we're thinking about	一般来说,我们思考的时候,没有心灵感应很难做到
44	ethics,	道德操守,
45	justice	司法
46	and moral argument.	和道德争论。
47	At least that's Aristotle's claim	至少这是亚里士多德的说法
48	Now I would like to bring out the force in Aristotle's claim by considering two examples.	现在我想通过考虑两个例子,把亚里士多德主张中的力量拿出来.
49	One is an example that Aristotle spends quite a bit of	一个是亚里士多德花了很多钱
50	time discussing the case of politics,	时间讨论政治案例,
51	how should political offices and honors, how should political rule be distributed.	如何分配政治职务和荣誉,如何分配政治统治。
52	The second example	第二个例子
53	is a contemporary	是一个当代
54	debate	辩论
55	about golf	关于高尔夫球
56	and whether	是否为
57	the professional golfers association	职业高尔夫球员协会
58	should be required to allow Casey Martin,	应该要求允许凯西·马丁
59	a golfer with a disability	残疾高尔夫球员
60	to ride in a golf cart.	骑高尔夫车。
61	Both cases	两种情况
62	bring out	出来
63	a further feature	另一个特征
64	of Aristotle's teleological way of thinking about justice	亚里士多德对正义的思考方式
65	and that is	这就是
66	that when we attend to the telos or the purpose	当我们关注调音器或目的
67	sometimes	有时候
68	we disagree and argue about what the purpose	我们不同意,争论什么目的
69	of a social practice	社会实践
70	really consists in	真正包含在
71	and when we have those disagreements	当我们有这些分歧
72	part of what's at stake in those disagreements	这些分歧的利害关系
73	is not just who will get what	不只是谁会得到什么
74	not just a distributive question but also	不仅是一个分配问题,而且
75	an honorific question	一个荣誉问题
76	what qualities	什么样的品质
77	what excellences	什么样的优异
78	of persons	个人资料
79	will be honored	将受尊敬,
80	debates about purpose and telos	关于目的和主题的辩论
81	are often	经常
82	simultaneously debates about honor	同时辩论荣誉
83	now let's see how that works	现在让我们看看它是如何工作的
84	in the case of	情况
85	Aristotle's account	亚里士多德的账户
86	of politics	政治观点
87	when we discuss distributive justice these days	我们讨论分配公正的时候
88	we're mainly concerned with the distribution of income and wealth and opportunity	我们主要关心的是收入、财富和机会的分配
89	Aristotle took distributive justice	亚里士多德接受了分配正义
90	to be	将会是
91	mainly not about income and wealth	主要不涉及收入和财富
92	but about offices and honors	但关于职务和荣誉
93	who should have the right to rule who should be a citizen	应有权统治谁应是公民
94	how should political authority be distributed	如何分配政治权威
95	those were his questions	那是他的问题
96	how did he go about answering those questions	他怎么回答这些问题的?
97	well in line with his	符合他的
98	teleological account of justice	司法学术语
99	Aristotle argues that	亚里士多德认为:
100	to know how political authority should be distributed	了解应如何分配政治权力
101	we have first to inquire into the purpose the point	我们首先要调查目的
102	the telos	齿轮
103	of politics	政治观点
104	so what is politics	政治是怎样的
105	about	关于
106	and how does this help us decide who should rule	如何帮助我们决定谁应该统治
107	well for Aristotle the answer to that question is	亚里士多德的答案是
108	politics is about	政治问题
109	forming character	组成字符
110	forming good character	形成良好的性格
111	it's about cultivating the virtue of citizens	而是培养公民的美德
112	it's about the good life	是关于美好生活的
113	the end of the state the end of the political community	国家终结政治界终结
114	he tells us	他告诉我们
115	in book three of the politics	在第三册政治
116	it's not	这不是
117	about your life	关于你的生活
118	it's not economic exchange only	不只是经济交流
119	it's not security	这不是安全
120	only	仅限
121	it's realizing	它正在意识到
122	the good life	美好生活美好生活
123	that's what politics is for	这就是政治的目的
124	according to Aristotle	根据亚里士多德
125	now you might worry about this	现在你可能会担心这个
126	you might say well maybe this shows us why those	你也许说得好也许这告诉我们为什么那些
127	modern theorists	现代理论家
128	of justice	司法裁判
129	and of politics	政治问题
130	are right	没错
131	because remember for Kant	因为记得康德
132	并用于 Rawls
133	the point of politics	政治的意义
134	is not to shape the moral character of citizens it's not to make us good	不是塑造公民的道德品质也不是让我们好
135	it's to respect our freedom to choose our goods	是尊重我们选择商品的自由
136	our values our ends	我们的价值,我们的目标
137	consistent with a similar liberty for others	与其他人的类似自由相一致
138	Aristotle disagrees	亚里士多德不同意
139	any polis which is truly so called	任何真正被称作"政治"的警察
140	and is not merely one in name must devote itself to the end of encouraging	不仅仅是名义上的,必须致力于鼓励
141	goodness	不错
142	otherwise political association sinks into a mere alliance	否则,政治联系就变成单纯的联盟
143	law becomes a mere covenant	法律变成一个简单的契约
144	a guarantor of men's rights against one another instead of being as it should be	保障男人相互之间的权利,而不是保持应有的地位;
145	a way of life	一种生活方式
146	such as will make the members of a polis good and just that's Aristotle's view	这样就能让大都会的成员好起来而这正是亚里士多德的观点
147	a polis is not an association	警察不是协会
148	for residents on a common site	供常住居民使用
149	nor for the sake of preventing mutual injustice and easing exchange Aristotle writes	也为了防止相互不公,
150	the end and purpose of a polis is the good life	大都会的终结和目的就是美好生活
151	and the institutions of social life are means to that end	社会生活体制是实现这一目标的手段
152	now if that's the purpose of politics of the polis	如果这就是大都会政治的目的
153	then Aristotle says we can	然后亚里士多德说我们可以
154	derive from that	来源于此
155	the principles of distributive justice	分配司法原则
156	the principles that tell us who should have the greatest say	原则告诉我们谁应该有最大的发言权
157	who should have the greatest measure of political authority	拥有最大政治权威的人
158	and what's his answer to that question? well those who contribute the most	他对此问题的答案是什么? 那些贡献最大的人,
159	to an association of this character	参加此性质的协会
160	namely an association that aims at the good	即一个以福利为目标的协会
161	should have a greater share in political rule	在政治统治中应有更大的份额
162	and in the honors of the polis and the reason is	而在荣誉波利斯和理由是
163	they	他们
164	are in a position to contribute	有能力捐款
165	most	多数
166	to what political community is essentially about	政治团体的本质
167	well so you can see	这样你就能看见了
168	the link that he draws	他画的链接
169	between the principle of distribution for citizenship and political authority	公民身份分配原则与政治权威之间
170	and the purpose	目标
171	of politics	政治观点
172	but why you'll quickly ask	但你为什么会快速问
173	why does he claim	他为什么声称
174	that political life participation in politics is somehow essential	政治生活对政治的参与至关重要
175	to living a good life	过上美好的生活
176	why isn't it possible	为什么不可能呢?
177	for people	为人民服务
178	to live perfectly good lives decent lives moral lives	过上完美的美好生活过上体面的生活
179	without participating in politics	不参与政治
180	well he gives two answers to that question	他回答这个问题有两个答案
181	he gives a partial answer a preliminary answer	他给出了部分答案初步答案
182	in book one of the politics	在书中政治之一
183	where he tells us	他告诉我们
184	that only	仅限
185	by living in a polis	住在大都会
186	and participating in politics	参政
187	do we fully realize our nature	我们是否充分意识到我们的本性
188	as human beings	作为人
189	human beings are by nature	人类是天生的
190	meant	谓
191	to live in a polis	在大都会生活
192	it's only in	琌
193	political life	政治生活
194	that we can actually exercise	我们实际上可以锻炼
195	our distinctly human capacity	我们独特的人的能力
196	for language	语言
197	which Aristotle understands as this capacity to deliberate about	亚里士多德所理解的这种审议能力
198	right and wrong	对与错
199	the just and the unjust	正义者和不义者,
200	and so Aristotle writes	亚里士多德写道
201	in book one of the politics that the polis	在书中政治之一的波利斯
202	the political community	政治团体
203	exists by nature and is prior to the individual not prior in time	按性质存在,而且发生在个人之前,而不是时间之前;
204	but prior in its	但它在
205	human beings are not self-sufficient	人不能自给自足
206	living by themselves	独自生活
207	outside	外部
208	a political community	政治团体
209	man who is isolated who's unable to share in the benefits of political association	与世隔绝、无法分享政治结社利益的人
210	or who has no need to share	或不需要分享的人
211	because he's already self-sufficient	因为他已经自给自足了
212	such a person must be either a beast or a god	这种人必须是野兽还是神
213	so we only fully realize our nature we only fully unfold our human capacities	所以我们才充分意识到我们的本性只充分展现我们的人的能力
214	when we exercise our	当我们锻炼
215	faculty of language	语言系
216	which means when we deliberate	这意味着当我们考虑
217	with our fellow citizens about	我们的同胞们
218	good and evil, right and wrong, just	善与恶,对与错,只是
219	and the unjust	和不义的人们,
220	but why can we only	但为什么我们只能
221	exercise our	锻炼我们
222	capacity for language	语言能力
223	in political community you might ask	在政治界,你可能会问
224	Aristotle gives a second part, a fuller	亚里士多德给出了第二部分,更完整
225	part of his answer	他回答的部分内容
226	in the Nicomachean Ethics, an excerpt of which	在尼科马切安伦理学中,摘录
227	we have among the readings	我们的阅读中,
228	and there	那边
229	he	他的电话
230	explains	解释
231	that political deliberation	政治讨论
232	living the life of a citizen	公民的生活
233	living and being ruled in turn, sharing and rule, all of this	生活和被统治, 分享和统治,这一切
234	is necessary	必须
235	to virtue	至美德
236	Aristotle defines happiness	亚里士多德定义幸福
237	not as maximizing the balance of pleasure over pain	而不是在快乐和痛苦之间实现最大的平衡
238	but as an activity, an activity of the soul	但作为一种活动, 灵魂的一种活动
239	in accordance with virtue	根据美德
240	and he says that every student of politics must study the soul	他说,每个政治学生都必须学习灵魂
241	because shaping the soul is one of the objects	因为塑造灵魂是其中之一
242	of legislation	立法
243	in a good city	在一个好城市
244	but why is it necessary to live in a good city in order to live a virtuous life	但为什么必须生活在一个好城市才能过上善良的生活
245	why can't we just learn good moral principles at home	为什么我们不能在家里学好道德原则
246	or in a philosophy class or from a book	或哲学课或书中
247	live according to those principles, those rules, those precepts	遵守这些原则、规则、戒律
248	and leave it at that	并把它留在那个
249	Aristotle says	亚里士多德说
250	virtue isn't acquired that way	美德不是那样获得的
251	virtue	贞操
252	is only something we can acquire	我们只能得到的东西
253	by practicing	练习
254	by exercising	通过行使
255	the virtues	优点
256	it's the kind of thing we can only learn	我们只能学这种东西
257	by doing	这样做
258	it doesn't come from book learning	不是从书学来的
259	in this respect	在这方面,
260	it's like flute playing, you couldn't learn how to play	就像吹笛子一样,你学不会弹
261	a musical instrument well just by reading a book about it	一部乐器,只要读一本书
262	you have to practice and you have to listen to other accomplished flute players	你必须练习,你必须听其他完成的笛手
263	there are other practices and skills of this type	还有其他这类做法和技能
264	cooking	烹饪
265	there are cookbooks	有厨书
266	no great chef ever learns how to cook by reading a cookbook only	没有一个伟大的厨师只读烹饪本就能学会烹饪
267	it's the kind of thing you only learn by doing	这是那种你只学习通过做
268	joke telling	开个玩笑
269	is probably another example of this kind, no great comedian learns to be a comedian	可能是另一个这样的例子, 没有伟大的喜剧演员学会做喜剧演员
270	just by reading a book	只读一本书
271	on the principles of comedy	喜剧原则
272	it wouldn't work, now why not	现在不行了,为什么不呢?
273	what do joke telling and cooking	开什么玩笑?
274	and playing a musical instrument	演奏乐器
275	have in common	有共同之处
276	such that we can't learn them just by grasping a precept	这样我们就不能仅仅通过抓住一个规则来学习它们
277	or a rule that we might learn from a book	或者我们可能从书中学习的规则
278	or a lecture, what they have in common	或教诲,或他们共有的教诲,
279	is that they are all concerned with	他们都关心
280	getting the hang of it, but also	获得它,但也
281	what is it we get the hang of	我们得到的是什么
282	when we learn how to cook	当我们学会烹饪
283	or play a musical instrument or tell jokes well	或演奏乐器或说笑话
284	discerning particulars	识别细节
285	particular features of a situation	情况的特殊性
286	no rule, no precept could tell the comedian or the cook	没有规则,没有规则可以告诉喜剧演员和厨师
287	or the great musician	还是伟大的音乐家
288	how to	怎样
289	get in the habit of, the practice of	习以为常,习惯
290	discerning the particular features	了解具体特征
291	of a situation, Aristotle says virtue is that way too	亚里士多德说美德也是这样
292	now, how does this connect to politics?	现在,这与政治有什么联系?
293	the only way	唯一的办法
294	we can acquire the virtues	我们可以获得美德
295	that constitute the good life	代表美好生活的,
296	is to exercise	锻炼
297	the virtues to have certain habits inculcated in us	给我们灌输某些习惯的美德
298	and then	接着
299	to engage in the practice of deliberating with citizens about	与公民讨论
300	the nature of the good	善的本质
301	that's what politics is ultimately about	这就是政治的最终目的
302	the acquisition of civic virtue	获得公民美德;
303	of this capacity to deliberate	是否具有这种审议能力
304	among equals	等数之间
305	that's something we couldn't get living a life	我们无法过上生活
306	alone outside of politics	一个人在政治之外
307	and so	就这样
308	that's why in order to realize our nature	这就是为什么为了实现我们的本性
309	we have to engage in politics	我们要参政
310	and that's why those	这也是为什么
311	who are greatest in civic virtue, like Pericles	公民美德最强的人比如佩里克斯
312	are the ones	是他们
313	who properly have the greatest measure of offices and honors	拥有最大职位和荣誉的人
314	so the argument about the distribution of offices and honors has this teleological character but also an honorific dimension	因此,关于职位和荣誉分配的争论具有这种心智特征但也具有荣誉意义
315	because part of the point of politics is to honor people like Pericles	因为政治的要点是尊重佩里克斯这样的人
316	it isn't just that Pericles should	不只是佩里克斯应该
317	have	已经
318	the dominant say	主语
319	because he has the best judgment and that will lead to the best outcomes to the best consequences for the citizens	因为他有最佳的判断力并将导致最佳结果给公民带来最佳后果
320	that's true	没错
321	and that's important	这很重要
322	but a further reason	但另一个原因
323	people like Pericles	佩里克斯这样的人
324	should have the greatest measure	应该有最大的尺度
325	of offices and honors and political authority and sway in the polis	权力和政治权威及政治影响力
326	is that part of the point of politics	是政治观点的一部分
327	is to single out and honor	单挑和荣誉
328	those who possess the relevant virtue, in this case civic virtue, civic excellence, practical wisdom	拥有相关美德的人,在这种情况下,公民美德,公民卓越,实用智慧
329	to the fullest extent	尽最大可能
330	that's the honorific dimension	这是荣耀的维度
331	bound up with Aristotle's account of politics	和亚里士多德关于政治的叙述联系在一起
332	here's an example	举个例子
333	that shows	显示
334	the link	链接
335	in a contemporary controversy	在当代的争议中
336	the link	链接
337	which Aristotle draws our attention between	亚里士多德让我们注意到
338	arguments about justice	关于正义的论点
339	and rights on the one hand	和权利
340	and figuring out the telos or the purpose of a social practice on the other	并找出泰罗士或目的在另一个社会实践
341	not only that	不仅如此
342	the case of Casey Martin and his golf cart	凯西・马丁和他的高尔夫球车的案子
343	also brings out	也带出来
344	the link between	链接
345	debates about what the purpose	关于目的的辩论
346	of a social practice or a game	社会实践或游戏
347	is on the one hand	一方面
348	and the question of what qualities should be honored	以及应当尊重哪些品质的问题
349	on the other	对方
350	the link between teleology	电信学之间的联系
351	and honor-based	和基于荣誉的
352	principles of distributive justice	分配公正原则
353	who was Casey Martin? Well, Casey Martin is a very good golfer	凯西・马丁是谁? 凯西・马丁是个很好的高尔夫球手
354	able to compete at the highest levels of golf	能在最高水平的高尔夫球比赛
355	but for one thing	但有一点
356	he has a rare	他有一个稀有的
357	circulatory problem in his leg that makes it very difficult for him to walk, not only difficult	他腿上的循环问题让他很难走路, 不仅很难走路
358	but dangerous	但危险
359	and so he asked the PGA	所以他问PGA
360	which governs the pro tour in golf	管理高尔夫球巡回赛
361	to be able to use a golf cart	能够使用高尔夫球车
362	when he competed in	当时,他参赛,
363	professional tournaments	职业联赛
364	the PGA said no	议员大会说不
365	and he sued under the American for Disabilities Act	他根据《美国残疾人法》起诉
366	he sued in a case	他起诉了一个案子
367	that went	已经过去了
368	all the way to the United States Supreme Court	一直到美国最高法院
369	the question the Supreme Court had to answer	最高法院必须回答的问题
370	was	当时是
371	does	对
372	Casey Martin have a right	凯西・马丁有权利
373	that the PGA provide him, allow him to use a golf cart on the tour	PGA给他,让他在巡演中使用高尔夫球车
374	or not	或者没有
375	how many here	这里有多少
376	think that	认为
377	from a moral point of view	从道德角度
378	Casey Martin	凯西·马丁
379	should	应
380	have a right to use a golf cart	有权使用高尔夫球车
381	and how many think that	和多少人认为
382	he should not	他不应该
383	have a right to a golf cart in the tournaments	在锦标赛中有权坐高尔夫车
384	so the majority are sympathetic to Casey Martin's right	所以大多数人都同情凯西・马丁的权利
385	though a substantial	虽然是一个实质性的
386	minority	少数民族
387	disagree, let's first hear from those of you	不同意,我们先从你们中听到
388	who would rule against Casey Martin	谁会统治凯西・马丁
389	why would you not	为什么你不
390	说PGA必须
391	give him a golf cart?	给他一个高尔夫球车?
392	Yes, since the inception of golf	是的,从高尔夫球开始
393	because it's been	因为它已经
394	part of the sport	运动内容
395	it's now	现在
396	intrinsically part of golf	高尔夫的内在部分
397	walking the course	在路上走着
398	and that's because it's intrinsic to golf I'd argue that	那是因为它是高尔夫的内在我想说
399	not being able to walk the course	无法行走
400	it's just not being able to perform	它只是不能发挥
401	an aspect of the sport which is necessary to	体育运动的一个必要方面
402	performing at a professional level. Good, stay there for a minute, what's your name?	专业水平。好,待一会儿,你叫什么名字?
403	Are you a golfer by the way Tom?	你是高尔夫选手吗?
404	Not so much but yeah a little bit	没那么多,但有一点
405	are there any golfers here, I mean real golfers?	这里有高尔夫球手吗?
406	Thank you professor. No, no	谢谢教授没有,没有
407	I'm just taking your word for it	我只是接受你的话
408	who are there, is there someone here on the golf team?	高尔夫球队里有人吗?
409	Yes, tell us your name and	是的,告诉我们你的名字和
410	tell us what you think	告诉我们你的想法
411	uh... my name is Michael and	呃... 我叫迈克尔和
412	I usually take a cart so	我通常坐推车这样
413	probably the wrong	可能错了
414	person to ask	要问的人
415	Is that why your hand went up slowly? Yes	这就是为什么你的手慢慢地上升? 对
416	All right	好吧,我们走
417	but Tom is saying	但汤姆说
418	Tom said a minute ago	汤姆刚才说
419	that at least at the professional level	至少在专业一级
420	walking the course	在路上走着
421	is essential to the game, do you agree? I would, yes.	对游戏至关重要,你同意吗? 我会,是的。
422	You do? Then why do you take a cart?	是吗? 那你为什么要坐推车?
423	And you call yourself a golfer? No, no, no, no, no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding	你说自己是高尔夫球手? 不不不,我开玩笑的
424	What do you say to that? When I have walked the course it does add	你说呢? 当我走过这条路的时候,它会增加
425	tremendously to the game	对游戏的极大影响
426	makes it a lot harder, it really does	更难,真的
427	All right, let's hear	好吧,让我们听听
428	Michael and Tom	迈克尔和汤姆
429	stay there, let's hear from people who	呆在那里,让我们听到的人谁
430	say that he should have a right to a golf cart	说他应该有权利使用高尔夫球车
431	Why? Who's prepared to defend that position? Yes?	为什么? 谁准备捍卫这个位置? 是吗?
432	Well, I think the PGA should definitely be required to give him a golf cart because they	我觉得PGA绝对需要给他一辆高尔夫球车,因为他们
433	argue in the decision that it's not just a matter of	在决定中争论说,这不仅仅是一个问题
434	he's not experiencing fatigue for him, he's still walking about a mile	他没有感到疲劳,他还在走一英里
435	the cart can't go everywhere with him	车不能和他一起到处走
436	and in that mile he's still experiencing more fatigue and pain	在那一英里里,他仍然经历更多的疲劳和痛苦
437	than a healthy player would, so it's not as if	而不是一个健康的球员会, 所以它不是像
438	you're moving the disadvantage	你在改变不利地位
439	What's your name? Riva	你叫什么来着? 丽娃
440	Riva, what do you say to Tom's point that walking the course is essential to the	丽娃,你对汤姆说,走这条路对
441	game? It would be	游戏? 这将是
442	as if	碞钩琌
443	a disabled player could play in the NBA	一个残疾的玩家可以在 NBA 中玩
444	but not have to run up and down the court	但不必跑上跑下法庭
445	Well, I think there are two responses to that. First, I don't think it's essential to the game	嗯,我想有两个答案。首先,我不认为这对游戏很重要
446	because most golfers who play	因为大多数打高尔夫的人
447	particularly recreationally don't play with a cart	特别在娱乐上不要玩马车
448	like Michael	像迈克尔
449	and on several of the tours you can play with a cart, on the senior PGA tour	在几次巡回演出中,你可以用推车玩, 在高级PGA巡回演出中
450	on the Nike tour	在耐克巡演时
451	in a lot of the college events and those events are just as competitive and just as high level	在很多的大学活动和那些赛事同样的竞争和同样高的水平
452	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}作为PGA的巡回演唱会 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}这其实是选择性的
453	reasoning if you argue that it's	如果你认为那是
454	an important part of the sport, but	运动的重要组成部分,但
455	even if it is, he still does have to walk, he still plays golf standing up, it's not as if he's	就算是,他还是要走路,他还是站着打高尔夫,这不像他
456	playing golf from a wheelchair	在轮椅上打高尔夫
457	Who else?	还有谁?
458	I think the whole point of a competition	我觉得比赛的要点
459	is that it calls out the best, you know, from the second best or from the third best	是它呼唤出最好的, 你知道,从第二好或者从第三好
460	And when we're talking about the national level, we're talking about, you know, the	当我们谈论国家层面, 我们谈论,你知道,
461	highest of the highest, and I think that	最高的,我认为
462	what they're arguing about here	他们在这里争论什么
463	is the purpose of competition, and I think in the sake of competition you can't change the rules	竞争的目的,我想为了竞争,你不能改变规则
464	So the purpose of the competition	所以比赛的目的
465	includes walking	包括行走
466	That's an essential, you agree with Tom, and what's your name? David	这是必需的,你同意汤姆,你叫什么名字? 大卫
467	The Supreme Court ruled	最高法院裁定
468	that the PGA did have to accommodate Casey Martin	联盟必须接纳凯西・马丁
469	And they did it on grounds that Reva mentioned	他们这样做的理由 Reva提到
470	that walking isn't really part of, an essential part of the game	走路其实不是游戏中最重要的一环
471	They cited testimony saying that walking the court consumes	他们引用证词说走在法庭消耗
472	no more calories than you get eating a Big Mac	没有卡路里比你吃一个大麦
473	That's what walking is in golf	这就是行走在高尔夫球中
474	According to the	根据
475	majority	多数
476	Scalia was in dissent	斯卡利亚不同意
477	Justice Scalia agreed with David	斯卡利亚法官同意大卫的意见
478	He said	他说
479	there is no	没有
480	purpose	目的
481	It's not, and it's certainly not for courts to try to figure out the essential purpose of golf	不是的,当然不是法院试图找出高尔夫的基本目的
482	Golf, like any game, is strictly for amusement	高尔夫就像游戏一样完全是为了娱乐
483	And if there's a group that wants to have one version of the game, they can have that version of the game	如果有一个团体想要有一个版本的游戏,他们可以拥有该版本的游戏
484	And the market can decide whether people are amused and like and show up for that and watch the television	市场可以决定人们是否乐于享受喜欢和出现,并观看电视
485	Now, let's talk about golf	现在,让我们谈谈高尔夫球
486	Scalia's dissent	斯卡利亚的异议
487	was an anti-Aristotelian dissent	是反阿里斯托德的异议
488	because notice two things about the argument	因为要注意两件事
489	First, we're thrust into a discussion about what the essential nature or purpose or telos of golf really is. Does it include walking?	首先,我们开始讨论高尔夫球的基本性质或目的或齿轮到底是什么。包括走路吗?
490	And	还有
491	here's something I think is rumbling beneath the surface of this debate	我认为这是在这场辩论的表面下
492	Whether walking	是否走动
493	hardly determines whether golf is really an athletic competition	很难确定高尔夫球是不是一场运动比赛
494	After all, the ball sits still	毕竟,球坐不动
495	you have to put it in a hole	你要把它放进洞里
496	Is it more like basketball, baseball, and football, golf, and athletic competition?	更像是篮球、棒球、足球、高尔夫球、体育比赛吗?
497	Or is it more like billiards?	还是更像台球?
498	The ball sits still there, too. You can be out of shape	球还坐在那里你可能体型不对
499	and succeed	并取得成功
500	It involves skill, but not athletic skill	它涉及技巧,但不是运动技巧
501	Could it be that those professional golfers who excel	会不会是那些专业的高尔夫球手
502	at golf have a stake in golf being honored and recognized as an athletic event	在高尔夫球场上,高尔夫球的利害关系被尊为运动员
503	not just a game of skill like billiards?	不只是像台球一样的技巧游戏?
504	And if that's what's at stake	如果这是关键
505	then we have a debate about the purpose	然后,我们有一个辩论关于目的
506	the teleological dimension	技术层面
507	and also a debate about honor	还有一场关于荣誉的辩论
508	What virtues, really,	什么优点,真的,
509	does the game of golf honor	做高尔夫球比赛
510	and recognize?	认得吗?
511	Two questions to which Aristotle directs our attention	亚里士多德要我们注意的两个问题
512	We'll continue on this case next time	下次我们继续查这个案子
513	What's strange and seem paradoxical to me about Aristotle's viewpoint	我对亚里士多德的观点感到奇怪和矛盾
514	is that	这是
515	if you walk	如果你走的话
516	like a pirate and you talk like a pirate, you shouldn't be an investment banker	像海盗一样,你说话像海盗, 你不应该是一个投资银行家
517	because	因为
518	that's not what you're supposed to do	这不是你应该做的
519	if you have a peg leg and an eye patch and a	如果你有一个钉腿和眼睛补丁
520	disgruntled disposition	不满的处置
521	you should be on a pirate ship on the high seas	你应该在公海上的海盗船上
522	so he doesn't	所以他不会
523	his uh...	他的额...
524	Some would say	有人会说
525	the distinction between the two vocations is not as clear as you suggest	两种职业的区别并不像你建议的那样明确
526	When we ended last time we were talking about whether Casey Martin has a right to ride in a golf	上次结束的时候我们谈论凯西・马丁是否有权骑高尔夫
527	card in the PGA	PGA 中的卡片
528	tournaments	锦标赛
529	and it's worth remembering how we got into this debate and what's at stake for an	值得记住,我们是如何进入这场辩论和什么是利害关系
530	understanding of political philosophy	对政治哲学的理解
531	Remember we were looking at Aristotle's theory of justice and one way of	记住我们在研究亚里士多德的正义理论还有一种方法
532	describing his approach to justice, we called it teleological	我们称他为"灵媒"
533	teleological because he says to allocate rights we first have to figure out	机电学是因为他说要分配权利我们首先要弄清楚
534	the purpose or the end	目的或结束
535	of the social practice in question	有关社会实践
536	another way	另一种方式
537	of describing Aristotle's	描述亚里士多德的
538	account of justice	司法问题
539	is that justice is for him a matter of fit	正义对他来说是一件很合适的事
540	it's a matter of fitting persons	是合适的人的问题
541	with their virtues and excellences	他们的美德和善绩,
542	to the appropriate roles	发挥适当作用
543	Now I want to finish our discussion	现在我想结束我们的讨论
544	about Casey Martin and his claim	关于凯西·马丁和他的索赔
545	for a golf card	高尔夫球卡
546	and then go back to one	然后回到一个
547	more consequential application in Aristotle namely the question of slavery	在亚里士多德, 即奴隶制问题中更切实的适用
548	what do you think	你觉得呢?
549	about	关于
550	Casey Martin's request	凯西·马丁的请求
551	should there be an accommodation or not given the nature	如果有住宿或不给予性质
552	of the game and of the tournament and its purposes	比赛和比赛的目的
553	isn't it discrimination	这不是歧视吗?
554	if he's not provided the golf cart as an accommodation say some	如果他没有提供高尔夫球车作为住宿,说一些
555	others reply no if he got a cart it would be unfair to the other golfers	其他人不回答,如果他得到一个车它会不公平其他高尔夫球员
556	because they exert themselves become winded	因为他们的功劳,
557	fatigued	疲劳
558	walking the course	在路上走着
559	that's where we left it	那是我们留下的地方
560	what about the fairness	公平怎么样?
561	argument	参数
562	okay Jenny	好吧,珍妮,你好吗?
563	my question was why doesn't the PGA just make the option of a cart available to	我的问题是,为什么PGA不只是让一个车的选择
564	all golfers	所有高尔夫球员
565	from our readings I learned that there are many golf tournaments	从我们的阅读中得知,有很多高尔夫锦标赛
566	other than the PGA where using a cart is not prohibited	除了不禁止使用推车的PGA以外
567	and for something like the seniors tournament it's even	和一些类似高年级的比赛,这是平
568	allowed and encouraged so why doesn't the PGA just do that	所以为什么PGA不这样做?
569	let everybody use a cart or give everyone the option of using a cart and	让每个人都用推车或者让每个人都可以选择用推车
570	let them pick	让他们选吧
571	so the traditionalist can say well I still choose to walk the course	所以传统主义者可以说,我仍然选择走这条路
572	but I do that knowing that I will be more	但我知道我会更
573	tired at the end than the people who took the cart	最终比开车的人累了
574	all right so what about Jenny's solution	那珍妮的解决方案呢?
575	for the sake of fairness	为了公平起见
576	don't give Casey Martin an advantage	别让凯西·马丁占优势
577	if indeed there is an advantage to riding in a cart	如果坐马车确实有优势的话
578	let everyone who wants to	让所有想
579	use a cart	用推车
580	is everyone happy with that solution	大家对这个方案满意吗?
581	does it put to rest this whole dilemma	这是否结束了这个困境?
582	who has an answer for Jenny	谁有珍妮的答案
583	as was brought up last time if you do that you	上次被提起的话
584	you kind of ruin some of the spirit of golf as a lot of people like to see it	你毁了一些高尔夫精神作为很多人喜欢看到它。
585	if you let everybody take a cart	如果你让大家坐车
586	even though it gives everybody the same playing field now	虽然它现在给大家同样的游戏场地
587	it sort of makes	有点像
588	golf less of	高尔夫球少一点
589	an athletic game like	运动游戏,比如
590	you pointed out last class	你指出最后一课
591	it's just like	这就像
592	if someone decides to go into another sport	如果有人决定去参加另一个运动
593	and they want an advantage like	他们想要一个优势
594	if you have swimming	如果你有游泳的话
595	and then you say okay he wants flippers so why don't we just allow everyone to have	然后你说好吧,他想要翻车所以我们为什么不让每个人都有
596	flippers doing swimming	翻车游泳
597	and what would that do to the	以及那会如何影响
598	Olympic swimming competition if people were free to use	如果人们可以自由使用奥林匹克游泳比赛
599	Jenny and here we better let Jenny reply to this	珍妮,我们最好让珍妮回答这个问题
600	Da says	爸爸说
601	it would sort of spoil the spirit of the athletic competition	那会破坏运动比赛的精神
602	as if in Olympic swimming you let	就像在奥运会游泳一样
603	anyone who wanted to	任何人谁想
604	swim with flippers	用翻转器游泳
605	all right Jenny what do you say to Da?	珍妮,你对达说什么?
606	it would spoil the spirit of it	它会破坏它的精神
607	you're also ruining the spirit of golf by not letting people who are really	你还在破坏高尔夫精神不让真正的人
608	passionate about the game and very good at it	对游戏充满激情,而且很擅长
609	compete simply because	仅仅因为
610	of an aspect of golf which is not	高尔夫球的某个方面不是
611	the main point of golf is you use this	高尔夫球的要点是用这个
612	club to make strokes and hit it into a hole	帮会打个洞
613	I'm sorry I'm not a golfer	对不起,我不是高尔夫球手
614	but that's basically the gist of the game from what I see it and I was	但基本上这就是游戏的要点从我所看到的,我是
615	reading the PJ versus	读取 PJ 相对
616	Casey Martin decision that was one of the	凯西・马丁的决定,这是其中之一
617	sentences that they said is	他们说的句子
618	because walking the course is not an inherent part of golf only swinging the	因为走着路不是高尔夫球的固有部分
619	club is good so	俱乐部不错啊
620	Jenny replies to Da	珍妮回答达
621	well	不错
622	it isn't really essential anyhow to walk the course so we're back to the	走路也没什么大不了的所以我们回去了
623	purpose	目的
624	I mean I'm sure there are like wheelchair basketball there are certain	我的意思是,我相信有像轮椅篮球有确定
625	different	不同
626	competitions that can be made for people who	能够为那些
627	may only be able to use their arms	只能用他们的手臂
628	yes	对
629	Michael what do you think?	迈克尔,你觉得呢?
630	and you just said that there's stuff like wheelchair basketball where if	你刚才说有些东西比如轮椅篮球
631	you can't play basketball there's another option I think there's other options	你打篮球不行还有别的办法
632	in the PGA tour but the PGA tour is like it's the best it's the pinnacle	在PGA巡回演唱会中,但PGA巡回演唱会就像它是最好的,它是顶峰
633	and you have to have certain requirements	你必须要有某些要求
634	fulfilled to perform	已履行
635	all right Michael you want to say to Casey Martin you go there is such a	好吧,迈克尔,你想对凯西马丁说你去那里是这样一个
636	thing as the Special Olympics	特别奥运会
637	for those who are disabled	残疾人
638	go play in the golf golfing version of the Special Olympics that's what you	去打高尔夫高尔夫版本的特别奥运这就是你
639	would say Michael	会说迈克尔
640	I think that walking is part of the sport of golf and Casey Martin you know you can't	我认为走路是高尔夫和凯西马丁运动的一部分你知道你不能
641	if you can't walk the course I don't think you should be able to play on the PGA	如果你走不动的话我想你不该在PGA上玩
642	all right good thank you very much for that exchange	好极了,谢谢你的交流
643	what comes out of this exchange	这次交易的来历
644	that goes back to Aristotle's theory of justice	回到亚里士多德的正义理论
645	well one thing is	还有一件事
646	the question is walking an essential part of golf	问题是走在高尔夫球的重要部分
647	the very fact that deciding whether there is a right	决定是否存在一项权利的事实
648	for Casey Martin that the PGA must respect seems to depend	对于凯西・马丁,PGA必须尊重似乎依赖于
649	as Aristotle suggests it must	正如亚里士多德建议的那样
650	on debating and resolving the question	辩论和解决问题
651	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}行走是绝对必要的 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}我
652	to the game of golf	进入高尔夫球场
653	that's one moral of the story	这是故事的道德
654	but there's a second moral	但有第二个道德
655	to the story from an Aristotelian point of view	从阿里斯托特利安的角度
656	what's at stake here	这里有什么危险
657	this is the second Aristotelian	这是第二个阿里斯托莲
658	stake in this debate	辩论的重要性
659	is honor	是荣誉
660	Casey Martin wants	凯西・马丁想要
661	the accommodation so that he can compete	他的住处,以便他竞争
662	for the honor	为了荣誉
663	of winning the best tournaments	赢得最佳联赛
664	why is it	为什么
665	that the professional golfers	职业高尔夫球手
666	the great golfers testified in this case	伟大的高尔夫球手在这案子作证
667	Jack Nicklaus	杰克·尼克劳斯
668	Tom Kite	汤姆·基特
669	in the readings	在读数中
670	against letting them use a cart	反对他们用推车
671	and they I suspect would be equally vehement Jenny	我怀疑他们同样会激怒珍妮
672	in opposing	反对
673	your suggestion	你的建议
674	of letting everyone ride a cart	让所有人骑车
675	and this goes back in a way to Dodd's point	这可以追溯到多德的观点
676	how to put this	怎么说呢?
677	gently	轻轻地
678	professional golfers	职业高尔夫球员
679	are sensitive	敏感
680	about whether their sport is really a sport	关于他们的运动是否真的是一种运动
681	because if everyone rode around in a cart or could	因为如果每个人都骑着马车到处走或者可以
682	then it would become	就会变成
683	clear	清除
684	or clearer depending on your point of view	或者根据你的观点更清晰
685	that golf is not really an athletic competition but rather a game a game of skill	高尔夫球其实不是体育比赛而是技能比赛
686	but not a sport	但不是运动
687	and so not only the question of debating the purpose	不仅仅是辩论目的的问题
688	the teleological feature	电话学特征
689	but also from the standpoint	但从观点来看
690	of viewing debates about the purpose of golf what's essential to golf those debates Aristotle	对高尔夫球目的的观察对亚里士多德辩论至关重要
691	suggests	建议
692	inevitably are also debates	也必然是辩论
693	about the allocation of honor	关于荣誉分配
694	because part of the purpose of golf	因为高尔夫的部分目的
695	is not just to amuse spectators	不只是取笑观众
696	what is wrong about that	这有什么不对?
697	from Aristotle's point of view	从亚里士多德的观点
698	it's not just to provide entertainment it's not just to make people happy	不只是提供娱乐不只是让人们快乐
699	it's not a mere amusement	这不是一个简单的娱乐
700	it's honoring it's rewarding it's recognizing a certain kind of athletic excellence	它的荣誉它的奖励它承认某种运动优异
701	at least	起码
702	those who have achieved the highest honors have a powerful stake	获得最高荣誉的人有重大利益
703	in maintaining that view	持这种观点的国家
704	now some of you took the position, the Scalia position	现在你们中有些人采取了立场, 斯卡利亚的立场
705	this is an incredibly difficult and silly question, Scalia said	斯卡利亚说,这是一个非常困难和愚蠢的问题
706	what is the essential nature of golf it's not the kind of thing that the United States	高尔夫的基本性质并不是美国
707	Supreme Court is equipped to decide	最高法院有能力裁定
708	or should decide	或应当决定
709	that's Scalia	这是斯卡利亚
710	but he only says that	但他只说
711	because he takes a very strong and as it happens	因为他很强壮,而且...
712	Aristotelian 立场
713	on what a game is	游戏是什么
714	it is the very nature of a game to have no object	游戏的本质就是没有对象
715	no point	无意义
716	except amusement	除了娱乐
717	says Scalia that is what distinguishes games he says from productive activity	Scalia说,这就是他所说的游戏与生产活动之间的区别
718	you can just imagine what kind of sports fans Scalia must be	你可以想象什么样的运动迷 Scalia必须是
719	and so he says it's impossible to say that any of a game's arbitrary rules	所以他说不可能说任何游戏的任意规则
720	is essential	关键
721	and then he quotes Mark Twain's	然后他引用马克・吐温的
722	disparaging remark about golf	贬低高尔夫的话
723	he says many consider walking to be the central feature of golf hence Mark Twain's classic	他说许多人认为步行是高尔夫球的中心特色所以马克吐温的经典
724	criticism of the sport	对体育运动的批评
725	a good walk spoiled	不错的散步被宠坏了
726	but Scalia	但斯卡利亚
727	misses	错过
728	an important feature of games	游戏的重要特征
729	and the arguments about rights and fairness that arise from games	以及游戏中出现的关于权利和公平的论点
730	when he casts	当他抛下去的时候,
731	games, sports, athletic competitions as solely for the sake of amusement	比赛、运动、运动比赛只是为了娱乐
732	as solely a utilitarian	作为纯粹的功利主义者
733	activity	活动
734	but an Aristotelian view of sports says no it's not just about amusement	但阿里斯托特利安对体育的看法说, 不仅仅是娱乐
735	real sports, real athletic events are also about appreciation not just amusement	真正的运动,真正的体育赛事也是为了欣赏不仅仅是娱乐
736	and people who follow sports and care about sports and play sports know this	跟着运动和关心运动和运动的人知道这一点
737	which is another way of saying	这是另一种说法
738	there's a difference between a sport and a mere spectacle	运动和场景是有区别的
739	and the difference is	而区别是
740	that a sport is a practice	运动是一种练习
741	that calls forth	呼唤
742	and honors and prizes	荣誉和奖赏
743	certain excellences, certain virtues	某些优秀,某些美德
744	and the people who appreciate those virtues	以及欣赏这些美德的人
745	are the true fans, the informed fans	真正的粉丝知情的粉丝
746	and for them watching the sport is not mere	他们不只观察游戏,
747	amusement but that means	娱乐,但这意味着
748	that it's always possible to make sense of a debate	总是可以让辩论有意义
749	about	关于
750	what feature of a sport	运动的什么特点
751	is essential to it. We can make sense of these arguments never mind the question	这一点至关重要。我们可以理会这些争论不必理会这个问题
752	whether the court should decide	法院是否应当作出
753	the PGA in its own internal deliberations can make sense	议员全球行动联盟在其内部审议中可以讲得通
754	of that debate which is why they cared very much	所以他们很关心
755	about their view	关于他们的观点
756	insisting on their view	坚持他们的观点
757	that walking and exertion and fatigue are essential not peripheral parts	步行、锻炼和疲劳是最重要的而不是外围的部分
758	of sport	体育
759	this is all to illustrate	这都是为了说明
760	the teleological and the honorific	和荣誉
761	feature	特性
762	of debates about rights	有关权利的辩论
763	which Aristotle says	亚里士多德说
764	we need to take account of	我们需要考虑
765	in thinking about justice	思考正义
766	I want to begin for us to consider	我想开始考虑
767	whether Aristotle's theory of justice	亚里士多德的正义理论
768	is right or wrong	是对是错
769	whether it's persuasive or unpersuasive	无论是有说服力还是没有说服力
770	I want to get your thoughts about that	我想得到你的想法关于这个
771	but I want to anticipate one	但我想预料到一个
772	obvious and important objection	明显和重要的反对
773	if justice is about fit	如果正义是适当的
774	fitting persons to roles	适合角色的人
775	matching virtues	匹配优点
776	to the appropriate honors and recognition	荣誉和承认
777	if that's what justice is	如果这就是正义
778	does it leave room for freedom	它是否为自由留下了空间
779	and this is one of the main objections	这是主要反对之一
780	to Aristotle's	去亚里士多德家
781	personal account of justice	个人司法情况
782	if certain roles social roles are fitting or appropriate to me	如果某些角色社交角色适合或适合我
783	where does that leave my right	我的权利在哪里
784	to choose	选择
785	my social roles	我的社会角色
786	my life purposes	我的生命目标
787	for myself	为了我自己
788	what room does teleology leave for freedom and in fact	电传学为自由留下什么房间,事实上
789	you may remember	你可能记得
790	Aristotle rejects	亚里士多德拒绝
791	teleological accounts of justice	司法学术语
792	because he says that	因为他说
793	teleological	电话学
794	theories of justice	司法理论
795	threaten	威胁
796	the equal basic rights of citizens	公民的平等权利
797	so let's	所以,让我们
798	let's begin to examine	让我们开始检查
799	whether Aristotle is right and in particular	亚里士多德是否正确,特别是
800	whether his teleological way of thinking about justice is at odds with freedom	他对正义的思考方式是否与自由相悖
801	now one obvious	现在一个明显的
802	reason to worry	不用担心
803	is Aristotle's defense of slavery	是亚里士多德捍卫奴隶制
804	he defends	他辩护
805	slavery	奴役
806	which existed as an institution	作为机构存在
807	in the Athens of his day	他的雅典时代
808	well what is his defense of slavery	他为奴隶制辩护的是什么呢?
809	two things two conditions have to be met	两个条件必须满足
810	for slavery to be just	使奴隶制公正
811	first	第一个
812	it has to be necessary	一定要这样
813	and Aristotle says at least in our society slavery is necessary	亚里士多德说至少在我们的社会中奴隶制是必要的
814	why is it necessary	为什么一定要
815	if there are to be citizens	如果有公民的话
816	who are freed from manual and menial and household chores	摆脱体力劳动、体力劳动和家务劳动;
817	to go to the assembly	去参加大会
818	to deliberate about politics	讨论政治
819	there have to be some	一定有一些
820	who look after those menial tasks	照顾这些日常工作
821	the mere necessities of life	仅仅是生活必需品
822	he says unless you could invent in some science fiction	他说除非你能发明一些科幻小说
823	a technological fix	技术修正
824	then there are going to be those who have to do	那样的话,就会有人做
825	the hard and difficult and menial labor if there are to be citizens	如果有公民,则需要艰苦、困难和体力劳动;
826	deliberating about the good	考虑好
827	and realizing their nature	并实现其性质
828	so slavery is necessary	因此,奴役是必要的
829	for the life of the polis for there to be open to citizens	为大都会的生活向公民开放
830	the life of deliberation of argument of practical wisdom	实际智慧论点的审议寿命
831	but there's a further condition that has to be met	但还有一个条件必须满足
832	slavery has not only to be necessary for the community as a whole to function	奴隶制不仅是整个社区运作的必要条件;
833	but it also has to be the case remember the criterion of fit	但也必须记住适合的标准
834	it also has to be the case that there are some people for whom being a slave	一定还有一些人是奴隶
835	is the just or the fitting or the appropriate condition	公正或合适或适当的条件
836	Aristotle	亚里士多德
837	agrees that by his own standards both of those conditions must be met must be	同意根据他自己的标准,必须满足这两个条件:
838	true if slavery is to be just	如果奴隶制是正义的
839	and then in a deplorable passage	然后在悲惨的一段
840	he says well it is true	他说的没错
841	that there are some people who are fit by nature who are cut out to be slaves	有些人天生就适合当奴隶
842	these are people who differ from ordinary people	这些是不同于普通人的人
843	in the same way	以同样的方式
844	that the body differs from the soul these are people who are meant to be	身体与灵魂不同这些是本该是的人
845	ruled and for them	统治和为他们
846	their nature is best realized if they're slaves	如果他们是奴隶,他们本性最好能实现
847	they can recognize reason in others	他们能识别别人的理性
848	but they can't partake of it they can't exercise it	但他们不能参与其中他们不能锻炼它
849	and somehow we can know this	不知怎的,我们可以知道
850	now	现在
851	Aristotle must have known that there was something dodgy something strained	亚里士多德一定知道有一些东西杜迪的东西紧张
852	about this claim	关于这项索赔
853	because he quickly acknowledges	因为他很快承认
854	that those who disagree may have a point	分歧者或许有观点,
855	and what those who disagree point out is that there are	分歧者指出,
856	a lot of people in Athens who are slaves	雅典很多人都是奴隶
857	not because they were born to be slaves	不是因为他们生来就是奴隶
858	or fit to be slaves	或适合成为奴隶
859	but because they were captured they were losers in a war	因为他们被俘虏了他们是在战争中的失败者
860	and so Aristotle admits that as practiced in ancient Athens	所以亚里士多德承认了在古雅典的实践
861	slavery didn't necessarily line up with who actually is fit or born to be a slave	奴隶不一定和谁真正适合或生来就是奴隶
862	because some actual slaves just were slaves by bad luck by being captured in a war	因为一些真正的奴隶只是运气不好的奴隶在战争中被俘虏
863	and on Aristotle's own account even if it's necessary to have slavery for the sake of	和亚里士多德的自身利益即使它是必要的奴隶制的缘故
864	this of citizenship	国籍
865	it's unjust	这不公平
866	if people who aren't properly slaves are cast in that role there is a misfit	如果那些不正经的奴隶被摆上这个角色... ...就会有不适
867	Aristotle recognizes that slavery for those who aren't fit for the task is a kind of coercion	亚里士多德承认对那些不适合任务的人的奴役是一种强迫
868	the reason slavery is wrong is not because it's coerced, coercion is an indicator that	奴隶制度错误的原因不是因为它是强迫的, 强迫是一种指标,
869	it's wrong	错了
870	because it's not natural	因为这不是自然的
871	if you have to coerce someone into a role	如果你不得不强迫某人扮演一个角色
872	that's a pretty good indication	这是个好迹象
873	that they don't belong there that that role isn't fitting for them	他们不属于那里那角色不适合他们
874	and Aristotle recognized this	亚里士多德意识到这一点
875	so all of this is to say the example of slavery, Aristotle's defense of it doesn't show that	亚里士多德对奴隶制的辩护并不能证明
876	there's anything wrong in principle	原则上说有问题
877	with teleological argument or with the idea of justice as fit	或以适当的司法观点
878	between persons and roles	个人与角色之间
879	because it's perfectly possible within Aristotle's own terms	因为亚里士多德自己的条款是完全可能的
880	to explain	解释
881	what's wrong	或
882	with this application	使用此应用程序
883	this practical application that he made of his theory	这个实际应用他的理论
884	I want to turn	我想转身
885	to the larger challenge to Aristotle in the name of freedom but before I do that	以自由的名义挑战亚里士多德
886	I want to	и稱
887	see what people think	看别人怎么想
888	of Aristotle's account	亚里士多德的账户
889	of justice as fit	司法公正
890	his teleological way	他的传奇方式
891	a reasoning about justice	关于司法的推理
892	and the honorific dimension	和荣誉层面
893	of rights	权利宣言
894	and of distributive justice that emerged in our discussion	我们讨论中出现的分配公正
895	of flutes	笛子数
896	and politics	政务
897	and golf	高尔夫球
898	questions of clarification about Aristotle	澄清亚里士多德的问题
899	or	或
900	objections	反对
901	to his overall	合计
902	account	账户
903	yes	对
904	my objection to	我反对
905	Aristotle is that he wants to match	亚里士多德想配合
906	a person to a role and you know if you walk like a pirate and you talk like a pirate	一个人对一个角色,你知道如果你走路像海盗, 你说话像海盗
907	you know you should be a pirate and that is what is right	你知道你应该是一个海盗,这是对的
908	and so	就这样
909	what's strange and	奇怪的东西
910	paradoxical to me about Aristotle's	关于亚里士多德的矛盾
911	viewpoint	视图
912	is that	这是
913	if you walk	如果你走的话
914	like a pirate and you talk like a pirate you shouldn't be an investment banker	像海盗,你说话像海盗你不应该是一个投资银行家
915	because	因为
916	that's not what you inherently supposed to do if you have a peg leg and an eye patch	如果你有双腿和眼罩你本不该这么做的
917	and a disgruntled disposition	和不满的处置
918	you know uh... you should be on a pirate ship on the high seas	你应该在公海上的海盗船上
919	uh... so he doesn't	所以他不会
920	his uh...	他的额...
921	some would say some would say	有人会说有人会说
922	the distinction between the two vocations is not as clear as you suggest	两种职业的区别并不像你建议的那样明确
923	alright but that's good i take the point	好吧,但是这很好,我明白了
924	it just seems to ignore individual rights so i might be	它只是似乎忽略了个人权利所以我可能是
925	the perfect janitor in the whole world and i can do that job the most	全世界最完美的清洁工我最能胜任
926	efficiently out of anybody	高效地离开任何人
927	that exists right now but i might not want to do that	现在已经存在但我可能不想这么做
928	i might want to do	我也许想做
929	any other number of pursuits and it seems to say that that	任何其他的追击行动似乎都说
930	isn't really a good option for me	对我来说不是一个好选择
931	alright and what's your name?	好吧,你叫什么名字来着?
932	Mary Kate	玛丽・凯特
933	alright let's uh... let's take a couple more	好吧,我们... 我们再多吃两杯
934	i think that the	我觉得
935	golf cart exchange	高尔夫球车交换机
936	sort of brought up	有点长大了
937	what i see as my main objection to this	我认为这是我的主要反对意见
938	theological	神学
939	uh... mode of reasoning	呃... 推理模式
940	michael i think that was your name right	迈克尔,我想那是你的名字对的
941	believes that walking is an	认为行走是一种
942	inherent part of golf	高尔夫的固有部分
943	myself	自己来
944	i believe that walking is not an inherent part of golf	我相信走路不是高尔夫的固有组成部分
945	and i feel that no matter	我觉得不管怎样
946	how long	多长时间
947	we debate	我们辩论
948	this particular	这个特别
949	point of contention	争议点
950	we're never going to reach an accord	我们永远不会达成协议
951	the theological	神学
952	framework	框架
953	of reasoning i believe doesn't really allow us	推理,我相信不真正允许我们
954	to come to any sort of agreement	达成任何协议
955	alright and what's your name?	好吧,你叫什么名字来着?
956	Patrick, alright let me try to address	帕特里克,好吧,让我试着谈谈
957	this set of objections to Aristotle	对亚里士多德的这组反对
958	let me start with Patrick's	让我从帕特里克的开始
959	it's an important objection	这是一个重要的反对
960	we had a debate about whether	我们辩论过是否
961	walking is essential to golf and even in so seemingly trivial or at least	走路对打高尔夫很重要即使在这么小的或者至少
962	contained the cases that we couldn't agree	包括我们无法同意的案件
963	how can we possibly hope to agree	我们怎么可能希望同意
964	when the stakes are higher	当赌注更高的时候,
965	and when we're debating the fundamental purposes or ends of political community	当我们辩论政治团体的基本宗旨或目的时
966	and so if we can't agree	所以,如果我们不能同意
967	and what the ends or the goods	以及什么是终点或货物
968	of our shared public life consist in	我们共同的公共生活
969	how can we base justice and rights	我们如何以正义和权利为基础
970	on some notion	在某些概念上
971	of what the end or the purpose or the good	目的或好处
972	consists in	包含在
973	that's an important objection	这是一个重要的反对
974	so much so	这么多
975	that much modern political theory	现代政治理论
976	takes that worry about disagreement over the good as its starting point	将担心对善的分歧作为起点
977	and	和
978	concludes	结论
979	that	那个
980	justice and rights	司法与权利
981	and constitutions should not be based on any particular conception of the good or the	宪法不应基于任何特定的利益概念或
982	purposes	目的
983	of political life	B. 政治生活中的歧视
984	but should instead provide a framework of rights that leaves people free to choose	相反,应当提供一个权利框架,使人们可以自由选择
985	their conceptions of the good	他们对善的概念
986	their own conceptions of the purposes of life	他们自己的人生目的概念
987	now Mary Kate	现在,玛丽・凯特
988	said	说
989	what if a person is very well suited to having a certain role like the role of being a janitor	如果一个人非常适合扮演一个像清洁工的角色
990	but what something else wants to reach higher	但其他东西想达到更高的
991	wants to choose another way of life	想选择另一种生活方式
992	so that goes back to this question about freedom	所以这又回到关于自由的问题
993	if we take our bearing as persons	如果我们把身体作为人
994	from roles that are said to fit our nature	从据说符合我们本性的角色
995	shouldn't it at least be up to us to decide what those roles are	至少应该由我们来决定这些角色是什么
996	in fact shouldn't it be up to us to define	其实不应该由我们来定义
997	what roles are suitable to us	什么样的角色适合我们
998	and that's going to take us back	那会带我们回去
999	to the confrontation between Aristotle on the one hand and Kant and Rawls on the other	亚里士多德与康德和罗尔斯的对抗
1000	Kant and Rawls	康德和罗尔斯
1001	and Patrick has a point	帕特里克说得有道理
1002	they say precisely because people disagree	他们说,正因为人们不同意
1003	in pluralist societies	在多元化社会中
1004	about the nature of the good life	关于美好生活的性质
1005	we shouldn't try to base justice on any particular answer to that question	我们不应该试图把正义建立在这个问题的任何特定答案之上
1006	so they reject teleology	所以他们拒绝电传
1007	they reject the idea of tying justice to some conception of the good	他们拒绝将正义与正义联系起来的想法,
1008	what's at stake in the debate about teleology	关于电传学的争论有什么关系?
1009	say	说
1010	Rawlsian and Kantian liberals	罗尔西安和康德自由主义者
1011	says this	说这个
1012	if you tie justice to a particular conception of the good	如果你把正义与一个特别的好概念联系起来
1013	if you see justice as a matter of fit between a person and his or her roles	如果你认为正义是个人与其角色之间的问题
1014	you don't leave room for freedom	你不留自由空间
1015	and to be free	和获得自由
1016	is to be	这将是
1017	independent of	独立
1018	any particular roles	任何特定角色
1019	or traditions	或传统
1020	or conventions	或公约
1021	that may be handed down by my parents	可能由我父母下达
1022	or my society	或者我的社会
1023	so in order to decide	因此,为了决定
1024	as between these two broad traditions	在这两种广泛传统之间
1025	whether Aristotle is right	亚里士多德是否正确
1026	or whether Kant and Rawls are right	或者康德和罗尔斯是否正确
1027	we need to investigate	我们需要调查
1028	whether the right is prior to the good, question one	问题一:权利是否在善良之前,
1029	and we need to investigate	我们需要调查
1030	what it means	这是什么意思
1031	to be a free person	成为自由人
1032	a free moral agent	自由的道德代理人
1033	does freedom require	自由需要吗?
1034	that I stand toward my roles, my ends and my purposes as an agent of choice	我站在我的角色, 我的目的和目的作为选择的代理人
1035	or as someone trying to discover	或试图发现
1036	what my nature really is	我的本性是怎样的
1037	two big questions	两个大问题
1038	and we'll take them up next time	我们下次再拿
1039	funding for this program is provided by	方案经费由下列机构提供:
1040	additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

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P12 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p12 11. 11.共同责任的辩论 (P12)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p12 11. 11.共同责任的辩论 (P12)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 54:52

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	Today we turn to Kant's reply to Aristotle.	今天我们来看康德对亚里士多德的答复.
0:17	Kant thinks	康德觉得
0:20	that Aristotle	亚里士多德
0:22	just made a mistake	只是犯了个错误
0:25	it's one thing	这是一件事
0:27	Kant says	康德说
0:28	to support a fair framework of rights	支持公平的权利框架
0:32	within which people can pursue their own conceptions of the good life	在其中,人们可以追求自己的美好生活概念
0:38	it's something else	是别的东西
0:40	it's something that runs the risk of coercion	这是有强迫风险的东西

展开字幕全文（1090 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Today we turn to Kant's reply to Aristotle.	今天我们来看康德对亚里士多德的答复.
2	Kant thinks	康德觉得
3	that Aristotle	亚里士多德
4	just made a mistake	只是犯了个错误
5	it's one thing	这是一件事
6	Kant says	康德说
7	to support a fair framework of rights	支持公平的权利框架
8	within which people can pursue their own conceptions of the good life	在其中,人们可以追求自己的美好生活概念
9	it's something else	是别的东西
10	it's something that runs the risk of coercion	这是有强迫风险的东西
11	to base law or principles of justice	以司法为根据的法律或原则
12	on any particular conception	任何特定概念
13	of the good life.	幸福的一生,
14	You remember Aristotle says in order to investigate the ideal constitution we have first to figure	你记得亚里士多德说过为了调查理想的宪法我们首先要确定
15	out the best way to live	走出最好的生活方式
16	Kant would reject that idea	康德会拒绝这个想法
17	he says that constitutions and laws and rights should not	他说,宪法、法律和权利不应该
18	embody or affirm or promote any particular	体现、确认或促进任何特定
19	way of life	生活方式
20	that's at odds with freedom	这与自由相悖
21	for Aristotle	亚里士多德
22	the whole point of law	整个法律要点
23	the purpose of the polis	大都会的目的
24	is to shape character	是要塑造字符
25	to cultivate the virtue of citizens	培养公民的美德;
26	to inculcate civic excellence	* 向公民灌输优秀知识;
27	to make possible a good way of life	创造美好生活方式
28	that's what he tells us in the politics	这是他在政治方面告诉我们的
29	for Kant on the other hand	对康德来说
30	the purpose of law	法律的目的
31	the point of a constitution is not to inculcate or to promote	宪法的意义不是灌输或提倡
32	virtue	贞操
33	it's to set up a fair framework of rights	建立公平的权利框架
34	within which	其中
35	citizens may be free to pursue their own conceptions of the good for themselves	公民可以自由地追求自己的福利概念
36	so we see the difference	所以我们看到了区别
37	in their theories of justice	司法理论
38	we see the difference in their account of	我们从他们的说法中看到不同之处
39	law	法律
40	or the role of a constitution	宪法的作用
41	the point of politics	政治的意义
42	and underlying these differences	造成这些差异的原因
43	are two different accounts of what it means to be a free person	是两个不同的说法一个自由的人意味着什么
44	for Aristotle	亚里士多德
45	we're free	我们自由了
46	insofar as we have the capacity to realize our potential	只要我们有能力实现我们的潜力
47	and that leads us	并引导我们
48	to the question of fit	问题的审议
49	fit between persons and the roles that are appropriate to them	适合个人和适合他们的角色
50	figuring out what I'm cut out for	想知道我该做什么
51	that's what it means	这就是它的意思
52	to lead a free life, to live up to my potential	过着自由的生活尽我所能
53	Kant rejects that idea	康德拒绝这个想法
54	and instead substitutes his	代之而来
55	famously demanding notion	著名的高要求概念
56	of freedom as the capacity	自由作为能力
57	to act autonomously	自主行动
58	freedom	自由权
59	is acting according to a law I give myself	是依照法律行事我给自己
60	freedom as autonomy	自由作为自治
61	part of the appeal	上诉部分
62	part of the moral force	道德力量的一部分
63	of the view of Kant and of Rawls	康德和罗尔斯的观点
64	consists in	包含在
65	the conception of the person	人的概念
66	as a free and independent self	自由独立的自我
67	the individual of choosing his or her own ends	选择自己目的的个人
68	the image of the self as free and independent	自由与独立的自我形象
69	offers, if you think about it, a powerful liberating vision because what it says is	提供,如果你考虑它, 一个强大的解放的愿景,因为它所说的是
70	that as free moral persons	作为自由的道德人士
71	we are not bound	我们不受约束
72	by any ties	任何联系
73	of history	历史
74	or of tradition	或传统
75	or of inherited status	或继承地位
76	that we haven't chosen for ourselves	我们没有为自己选择
77	and so we're unbound by any moral ties prior to our choosing them	所以我们在选择他们之前没有道德联系
78	and that means	这意味着
79	that means that we are	这意味着我们
80	free and independent sovereign selves, we're the authors of the only obligations that constrain	自由和独立的主权自我,我们是限制
81	us	我们
82	the communitarian critics	社区批评者
83	of Kantian and Rawlsian liberalism	康斯坦丁和罗尔斯自由主义
84	acknowledge that there is something	承认有东西
85	powerful and inspiring	强大和鼓舞人心
86	in that account of freedom	以自由为理由
87	free independent choosing self	自由独立选择自己
88	but they argue	但他们争论
89	it misses something	它错过了什么
90	it misses the whole dimension of moral life and even	它错过了道德生活的整个方面,甚至
91	it can't make sense of our moral experience because it can't account	无法解释我们的道德经历因为它无法解释
92	for certain moral and political obligations	某些道德和政治义务
93	that we commonly recognize and even prize	我们通常承认,甚至奖励
94	and these include obligations of membership, loyalty, solidarity	包括成员资格、忠诚、团结的义务
95	and other moral ties that may claim us for reasons	以及可能因故要求我们
96	that we can't trace to an act of consent	我们无法追查到同意的行为
97	Alastair McIntyre	阿拉斯泰尔·麦金泰尔
98	gives an account	提供账户
99	what he calls a narrative conception	他所谓的叙事概念
100	of the self, it's a different account	自我,这是另一个说法
101	of the self	自我保护
102	human beings are essentially storytelling creatures	人类基本上是讲故事的生物
103	McIntyre argues	麦金泰尔认为
104	that means	这意味着
105	I can only answer the question	我只能回答这个问题
106	what am I to do	我该怎么办?
107	if I can answer the prior question	如果我能回答前一个问题
108	of what story or stories do I find myself apart	我发现自己与世隔绝
109	that's what he means by the narrative conception	这就是他所说的叙事概念
110	of the self	自我保护
111	what does this have to do	这有什么关系
112	with the idea of community	与社区思想
113	and belonging	和所属
114	McIntyre says this	麦金泰说
115	once you accept this narrative aspect of moral reflection	一旦你接受了道德反思的这个叙事方面
116	you will notice	你会注意到
117	that we can never seek for the good	我们永远无法为善
118	or exercise the virtues only as individuals	或只作为个人行使美德
119	we all approach our circumstance as bearers of particular social identities	我们都把我们的处境视为具有特殊社会特征的人
120	I am someone's son or daughter	我是别人的儿女
121	a citizen of this or that city	这座或那个城市的公民
122	I belong to this plan, that tribe, this nation	我属于这个计划那个部落这个民族
123	hence McIntyre argues	因此麦金泰尔认为
124	what is good for me	对我有好处的
125	it has to be the good for someone who inhabits these roles	一定对这个角色的人有好处
126	I inherit from the past of my family, my city, my tribe, my nation	我继承了家族、城市、部落、国家
127	a variety of debts, inheritances, expectations and obligations	各种债务、遗产、期望和义务
128	these constitute the given	它们构成给定的
129	of my life, my moral starting point	我生命的起点
130	this is in part what gives my life	这是一部分给我的生命
131	its moral	其道德规范
132	particularity	特性
133	that's the narrative conception of the self	这就是自我的叙事概念
134	and	和
135	it's a conception that sees the self as claimed or encumbered	这是一个概念,认为自己是声称或作保
136	at least to some extent	至少在某种程度上
137	by the history, the tradition	根据历史,传统
138	the communities	社区
139	of which it's a part	这是其中的一部分
140	we can't make sense of our lives	我们的生活没有意义
141	not only as a psychological matter but also as a moral matter in thinking what	不仅是心理问题,也是道德问题
142	we ought to do	我们应该做
143	without attending to these features	不注意这些特性
144	about us	关于我们
145	McIntyre recognizes	麦金塔认出来了
146	that this narrative account, this picture of the encumbered self	这段叙述,这幅图画的自我
147	puts his account	把他的账户
148	at odds with	与
149	contemporary liberalism and individualism	当代自由主义和个人主义
150	from the standpoint of individualism	从个人主义的角度
151	I am	对
152	what I myself choose to be	我选择的
153	I may biologically be my father's son but I can't be held responsible for what	我可能生来就是我父亲的儿子但我不能对什么负责
154	he did	没错
155	unless I choose to assume such responsibility	除非我愿意承担这种责任
156	I can't be held responsible for what my country does	我不能为国家所做的事负责
157	or has done	或已完成
158	unless I choose to assume such responsibility	除非我愿意承担这种责任
159	but McIntyre says this reflects a certain kind of moral	但麦金泰尔说这反映了某种道德
160	shallowness	浅度
161	even blindness	连瞎都看不见
162	it's a blindness at odds with the full measure of responsibility which	这是盲目与全方位的责任
163	sometimes he says involves	有时候他说,涉及
164	collective responsibility	集体责任
165	or responsibilities that may flow from historic memories	历史记忆中可能产生的责任
166	and he gives some examples	他举了一些例子
167	such individualism is expressed by those contemporary Americans	这些当代美国人表达了这种个人主义
168	who deny any responsibility for the effects of slavery upon black	否认对奴隶制对黑人的影响负有责任的人
169	Americans saying	美国人说
170	I never owned any slaves	我没有奴隶
171	or the young German	或年轻的德国人
172	who believes	他们确信,
173	that having been born after 1945	出生于1945年之后
174	means that what Nazis did to Jews has no moral relevance to his relationship	意味着纳粹对犹太人的所作所为与他的关系没有道德关系
175	to his Jewish contemporaries	他的犹太时代
176	McIntyre says all of these attitudes	麦金泰说所有这些态度
177	of historical amnesia	历史失忆症
178	amount to a kind of moral abdication	相当于一种道德放弃
179	once you see	当你看到
180	that who we are	我们是谁
181	and what it means	以及这意味着什么
182	to sort out our obligations	解决我们的义务
183	can't be separated	不能分开
184	shouldn't be separated	不应该分开的
185	from the life histories	从生命史上
186	that define us	这决定了我们
187	the contrast he says	他说的对比
188	when the narrative account is clear	当叙述清楚时
189	for the story of my life	为了我一生的故事
190	is always embedded in the story of those communities from which I derived my identity	永远被植根于那些社区的故事我从中产生我的特性
191	I am born with the past and to try to cut myself off from that past	我生来就与过去同在试图与过去隔绝
192	is to deform	是变形
193	my present	我的礼物
194	relationships	关系
195	so there you have in McIntyre	在麦金泰尔
196	a strong statement of the idea	对想法的有力声明
197	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}那个自我
198	can't be detached shouldn't be detached	不能脱离,不应该脱离
199	from its particular	从它的特定方面
200	ties of membership	成员关系
201	history	历史
202	story	故事
203	narrative	说明
204	now I want to get your reactions	现在我想得到你的反应
205	to the communitarian critique	对社区批评
206	of the individualist	个人
207	or the voluntrist	或自愿者
208	the unencumbered self	未支配余额
209	but let's make it concrete so that you can react to more than just the theory of it	但是,让我们让它变得具体这样你就可以反应不只是它的理论
210	by looking at	通过观看
211	the two different accounts of moral and political obligation that arise	关于道德和政治义务的两种不同说法
212	depending on which of these conceptions of the person	根据这些人的这些概念,
213	one accepts	一个接受
214	on the liberal conception	自由概念
215	moral and political obligations arise	道德和政治义务的产生
216	in one of two ways	以两种方式之一
217	there are natural duties	有自然义务
218	that we owe human beings as such	我们欠人类的
219	duties of respect for persons qua persons	尊重人的义务
220	these obligations	这些义务
221	are universal	普及
222	then	接下来
223	as Rawls points out	正如罗尔斯指出的
224	there are also voluntary obligations	还有自愿义务
225	obligations that we owe to particular others	我们对特定其他人的义务
226	insofar as we have agreed	我们同意
227	whether through a promise	是否通过承诺
228	or a deal	或交易
229	or a contract	或合同
230	now the issue between	现在的问题是
231	the liberal and communitarian accounts of the self	自由主义和共产主义的自我
232	is there another category	是否有另一个类别
233	of obligation	义务
234	or not?	还是没有?
235	the communitarian says there is	共产主义者说有
236	there is a third category that might be called obligations of solidarity or loyalty or membership	第三类可以称为团结、忠诚或成员资格的义务。
237	the communitarian argues that	共产主义者认为:
238	construing all obligations	解释所有义务
239	as either natural duties	作为自然义务之一
240	or voluntary obligations	或自愿义务
241	fails to capture obligations of membership or solidarity	未能履行成员资格或团结的义务
242	loyalties whose moral force consists partly in the fact	忠诚者,其道德力量部分在于事实
243	that living by them	住在他们身边的人
244	is inseparable from understanding ourselves as the particular persons we are	与了解我们自己作为特殊的人是不可分割的
245	what would be some examples	什么样的例子
246	and then I want to see how you would	然后我想看看你会怎样
247	react to them	对之作出反应
248	examples	实例
249	of obligations of membership	成员的义务
250	that are particular	特别的,
251	but don't necessarily flow from consent but rather from	但不一定来自同意而是来自
252	membership	成员
253	narrative	说明
254	community	社区
255	and situation	局势
256	the most common examples are ones	最常见的例子是:
257	to do with the family	与家庭有关
258	the relation between parents and children for example	例如,父母与子女之间的关系;
259	suppose there were two children	假设有两个孩子
260	drowning	淹死
261	you could save only one of them	你只能救一个
262	one was your child the other was a stranger's child	一个是你的孩子另一个是陌生人的孩子
263	would you have an obligation	你是否有义务
264	to flip a coin	翻转硬币
265	or would there be something	会不会有什么
266	morally obtuse if you didn't rush to save your child	如果你不急着救孩子的话道德上会很无聊的
267	now you may say well parents have agreed	现在你可以说父母同意了
268	to have their children	生儿育女
269	so take the other case	换个案子吧
270	the case of children's obligation for their parents now we don't choose our parents	至于孩子对父母的义务我们现在不选择父母
271	we don't even choose to have parents	我们甚至没有选择有父母
272	there is that asymmetry	有一个不对称
273	and yet	但是,现在
274	consider two	考虑两个
275	aging parents	老年父母
276	one of them yours	其中一个是你的
277	the other a stranger's	另一个陌生人的
278	doesn't it make moral sense to think that you have a greater obligation to look after	认为自己有更大的义务照顾自己这在道德上不合理
279	your age of parent	父母的年龄
280	than to flip a coin	而不是翻转硬币
281	or to help the strangers	或帮助陌生人
282	is this traceable to consent	这是否可追溯到同意
283	not likely	可能不会
284	or take a couple of political examples	或者拿几个政治例子
285	during world war two	二战期间
286	French resistance	法国抵抗运动
287	pilots flew bombing raids over occupied France	飞行员飞来轰炸法国
288	one day	总有一天
289	one of the pilots	其中一个飞行员
290	received his target	收到了目标
291	and noticed	并且注意到
292	that the village he was being asked to bomb	被要求轰炸的村庄
293	was his home village	是他的家乡
294	he refused	他拒绝了
295	not disputing that it was as necessary as the target he bombed yesterday	没有反驳他昨天轰炸的目标一样必要
296	he refused on the ground that he couldn't bring himself it would be a special moral	他以无法自圆其说为由拒绝这将是一种特殊的道德
297	for him to bomb his people	让他去轰炸他的族人
298	even in a cause	即使在事业中
299	that he supported	他支持我们
300	the cause of liberating France	解放法国的事业
301	do we admire that	我们佩服
302	if we do	如果是这样
303	the communitarian argues	社会争论
304	it's because we do recognize obligations	因为我们承认义务
305	of solidarity	团结
306	take another example	以另一个例子
307	ten years ago there was a famine in Ethiopia	十年前埃塞俄比亚发生饥荒
308	hundreds of thousands of people were starving	几十万人在挨饿
309	the israeli government organized an airlift	伊斯雷利政府安排了一次空运
310	to rescue Ethiopian Jews	拯救埃塞俄比亚犹太人
311	they didn't have the capacity to rescue everyone in Ethiopia	他们没有能力去救埃塞俄比亚的每一个人
312	they rescued	他们救了我们
313	several hundred	几百个
314	Ethiopian Jews now	现在埃塞俄比亚犹太人
315	what's your moral assessment is that a kind of	你的道德评价是:
316	very troubling	非常麻烦
317	partiality	偏颇性
318	a kind of prejudice	一种偏见
319	or	或
320	as the israeli government	作为爱尔兰政府
321	thought	认为
322	is there a special obligation of solidarity	是否有特别的团结义务
323	that this airlift properly	适当空运
324	responded to	答复
325	well that takes us to the broader question of patriotism	那又怎样,我们才有爱国心
326	what morally speaking	什么道德论
327	is to be said for patriotism	可以说是爱国主义
328	there are two towns named Franklin one is Franklin Texas and the other is just across the Rio Grande River Franklin Mexico	富兰克林一个叫富兰克林德克萨斯,另一个叫富兰克林墨西哥河对面
329	what is the moral significance of national boundaries	国界的道德意义是什么?
330	why is it	为什么
331	or is it the case	还是这样
332	that we as Americans have a greater responsibility	我们美国人有更大的责任
333	for the health and the education and the welfare and public provision	健康和教育以及福利和公共供给
334	for people who live in Franklin Texas	富兰克林·德克萨斯人
335	then equally needy people	那时,有同样需要的人,
336	just across the river	就在河对岸
337	living in Franklin Mexico	住在富兰克林墨西哥
338	according to the communitarian account membership does matter	根据社区账户成员情况
339	and the reason patriotism	和爱国主义的理由
340	is at least potentially a virtue is that it is an expression of	至少是种潜在的美德就是它表现了
341	the obligations	义务
342	of citizenship	国籍
343	how many	数量
344	are sympathetic to the idea	同情这个想法
345	that there is this third category of obligation	第三类义务
346	the obligations of solidarity or membership	团结或成员资格的义务
347	how many are sympathetic to that idea	有多少人同情这个想法
348	and how many are critical of that idea	有多少人批评这个想法
349	how many think all obligations	有多少人认为所有的义务
350	can be accounted for	可核算
351	in the first two ways	前两条路
352	let's hear from the critics of the communitarian idea first	先听批评社区思想的人说
353	my biggest concern with	我最关心的是
354	the idea of having obligations	义务的概念
355	because you're a member of	因为你是
356	something or because of solidarity is that	某事或因为团结
357	it seems that	看来
358	if you accept those obligations as being sort of morally binding	如果你接受这些义务是一种道德约束
359	then there's a greater occurrence of overlapping obligations	那么重叠义务的发生增多
360	a greater occurrence of	发生次数增加
361	good versus good	好对好
362	and I don't know if this sort of framework allows us	我不知道这种框架是否允许我们
363	to choose between them	在它们之间选择
364	good and what's your name? Patrick.	好,你叫什么名字来着? 派屈克派屈克派屈克
365	So you worry	所以你担心
366	that if we recognize obligations of membership or solidarity	如果我们承认成员资格或团结的义务
367	since we inhabit different communities their claims might conflict	因为我们住在不同的社区他们的主张可能会有冲突
368	and what would we do	我们该怎么办?
369	if we have competing obligations?	如果我们有相互竞争的义务呢?
370	Well, one solution is that we could view ourselves as	一个解决办法是我们可以把自己看成
371	ultimately members of the human community	最后是人类社会的成员
372	and that	还有,
373	then within that we have all these smaller spheres of that, you know, I am	然后在其中,我们拥有所有这些较小的领域, 你知道,我
374	American or I am a student at Harvard	美国人或我是哈佛大学的学生
375	and so	就这样
376	the most important	最重要的一个
377	community to be	社区
378	obligated to	义务
379	is	这是
380	the community of	社区
381	human beings and then from there you can	人类,然后从那里你可以
382	sort of evaluate	类型评价
383	which other ones are most important to you	其他的对你最重要
384	so the most univer- and what's your name? Nicola	所以,最无能的... 你叫什么名字? 尼科拉(签名)
385	so Nicola you say the most	所以,尼可拉你说最多
386	universal community we inhabit, the community of humankind	我们居住的世界性社区,人类社区
387	always takes precedence	总是优先
388	Patrick, are you satisfied?	帕特里克,你满意吗?
389	Why not?	为什么不呢?
390	It seems rather arbitrary that we should choose	我们选择
391	the universal obligation	普遍义务
392	over the more specific obligation	较具体的义务
393	I might also say that I should be	我也可以说,我应该
394	obligated first	首先承付
395	to the most specific of my obligations, for instance	以我最具体的义务为例
396	take my family as a small unit	把我的家人当成一个小单位
397	of solidarity	团结
398	perhaps I should be first obligated	也许我该承担第一责任
399	to that unit	给那个单位的
400	and then perhaps to the unit of my town	然后再去我镇上的单位
401	and then my country and then the human race	我的国家和人类
402	good, thank you	很好,谢谢
403	let's- I want to hear from	我们... 我想听听
404	another critic of the communitarian view	社区观点的另一个批评者
405	we have the objection	我们反对
406	well what if goods collide	如果货物碰撞呢?
407	who objects to the whole idea of it?	谁反对这个想法?
408	who sees	他们看见了,
409	patriotism is just a kind of prejudice that ideally we should overcome?	爱国主义只是我们最好克服的一种偏见?
410	yes, patriotism reflects	是的,爱国主义反映
411	a community membership	社区成员
412	like a given	就像一个给定
413	I think the problem is that	我觉得问题是
414	whereas some	不过有些
415	memberships are	成员为:
416	natural narratives	自然叙述
417	the narrative of	说明
418	citizenship is a constructed one	公民权是人造的
419	and I think a false one	我觉得一个假的
420	because	因为
421	as the river is just a historical accident	因为河只是历史的意外
422	it makes no sense that because the lottery of birth threw me into the	因为出生的彩票把我扔进
423	United States as opposed to	美国与
424	Mexico	墨西哥
425	that that's the membership that I should be a part of	那就是我应该加入的成员
426	good, and what's your name? Elizabeth	好,你叫什么名字来着? 伊丽莎白
427	Elizabeth, who has a reply?	伊丽莎白,谁有答复?
428	I think	我觉得
429	in general	一般情况
430	we have to ask where do our moral obligations arise from anyway	我们必须问我们的道德义务从何而来
431	I think basically there'd be two	我想基本上有两个
432	places from which they could arise, one would be kin	他们的亲戚,
433	another one would be reciprocity	另一个是互惠
434	the closer you are associated to other people there's a natural reciprocity	你和别人的关系越密切自然是互惠的
435	there in terms of	说明
436	having	拥有
437	interactions with those people	与这些人的互动
438	you	老师
439	interact with the neighbors on your street, with the other people in your country	与你街上的邻居与你国内的其他人互动
440	through economic arrangements, but I don't know, and you don't know those people in	经济安排,但我不知道, 你不认识那些人在
441	Franklin	富兰克林
442	Texas any more than you know the people in Franklin, Mexico, do you?	比你们更了解墨西哥富兰克林的人,对吧?
443	presumably you're naturally more connected with the people in your own	假设你天生和别人的关系
444	country	国家
445	in terms of interaction and trade than you are with people in other countries	在互动和贸易方面比你和其它国家的人
446	good, who else?	好,还有谁?
447	yeah, I think that	是的,我觉得
448	a lot of	许多
449	the basis for patriotism can be compared to like school spirit or	爱国主义的基础可以和学校精神相提并论
450	even house spirit that we see here	甚至我们在这里看到的房子精神
451	where freshmen are sorted into houses and then within a day they have	在那里,新生被整理成房屋,然后在一天之内,
452	developed some sort of	开发了某种
453	attachment or pride associated with that house, and so	和那栋房子有关联的感情或骄傲,所以
454	I think that we can probably draw a distinction between a moral obligation	我认为我们可以区分道德义务
455	for communitarian beliefs	社区信仰
456	and sort of just a sentimental emotional attachment	有点感情上的感情
457	good, wait, stay there, what's your name?	好,等等,待在那里, 你叫什么名字?
458	Rena	丽娜
459	what about	怎么样
460	go back to my example about the obligation of the child to the parent, would you say	回到我关于孩子对父母的义务的例子,你会说
461	the same thing there, it's just a	同样的,它只是一个
462	may or may not be a sentimental tie but it has no moral weight?	可能还是不是感情上的领带但它没有道德的份量?
463	well, I mean	我是说
464	I'm not entirely certain that accident	我不完全确定那场事故
465	in the initial stages	第一阶段
466	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}什么? {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}什么?
467	and so	就这样
468	just because we're randomly sorted into a house or just because we don't choose	只是因为我们被随机排序到一个房子或者只是因为我们不选择
469	who our parents are or what country we're born into doesn't necessarily mean that we won't	我们的父母是谁或者我们出生的国家并不一定意味着我们不会
470	develop an obligation based on	发展一项基于
471	some type of	某类
472	benefit, I guess, which is sort of... so your obligation to your aged parent	我猜,这算是... 所以你对年老父母的义务
473	that's greater than to your aged parents	比你的年老父母还要多
474	around the world	世界各地
475	is only because	只是因为
476	and in so far as	并一直到
477	you're repaying a benefit	你报了恩
478	that your parent	你的家长
479	gave you when you were growing up?	你长大的时候给你的?
480	yeah, I mean I would say that if you look at cases of adoption where you have a biological	是的,我的意思是,我会说,如果你看收养的情况,你有一个生物
481	parent somewhere else that you don't interact with and then you have a parent who adopted you	父母在别的地方,你不互动然后你有一个父母谁收养你
482	most people would say that	大多数人会说
483	if you had to pick between them in the case of	如果你不得不挑在他们之间,如果
484	aging parents that	年迈的父母
485	your obligation would lie more with the person	你的责任更在于这个人
486	who raised you and who had exchanges with you meaningfully	他曾养育你们,曾与你们交流,
487	may I ask you one more question about the parent?	我能再问你一个关于父母的问题吗?
488	do you think that a person with a bad parent	你觉得一个父母不好的人
489	owes them less?	欠他们多少?
490	I don't know because I've never had a bad parent	我不知道因为我从来没有一个坏父母
491	I think that's a good place to end	我想这是结束的好地方
492	we'll continue with this next time, thank you	下次再继续吧谢谢
493	if I were working on an egg problem set for example	如果我在研究一个鸡蛋问题比如说
494	and I saw that my roommate was cheating	我看见室友在作弊
495	that might be a bad thing for him to do but I wouldn't turn him in	那对他可能不好但我不会告发他
496	you would not turn him in? I wouldn't turn him in and I think that	你不会把他交出来吧? 我不会告发他我觉得
497	I would argue that's the right thing to do because of my obligation to him	我认为这是正确的事情因为我对他的义务
498	you don't have a duty to tell the truth	你没有义务说实话
499	to report someone who cheated?	报告一个作弊的人?
500	today I'd like to take	今天我想带
501	I'd like to consider the strongest objections to the idea	我想考虑一下最强烈的反对意见
502	that there are obligations of solidarity or membership	有团结或成员资格的义务
503	and I want to see if those objections can be met	我想看看这些反对是否能得到满足
504	successfully	成功吗?
505	one objection emerged in the discussion last time Patrick said well	上次Patrick说得好的时候有人反对
506	if obligations flow from community membership and identity we inhabit	如果社区成员的义务和身份,我们居住
507	multiple communities doesn't that mean that our obligations	多社区不代表我们的义务
508	will sometimes	有时候
509	conflict	冲突
510	so that's one possible objection	所以,这是一个可能的反对
511	and then Rena said	然后蕾娜说
512	these examples meant to	这些例子意在
513	bring out the moral force	唤起道德力量
514	of solidarity and membership	团结和成员资格
515	examples about	实例
516	parents and children	家长和子女
517	about the french resistance fighter asked to bomb his own village and drawing back	关于法国抵抗战士要求轰炸自己的村庄和撤退
518	about the airlift	关于空运
519	by Israel of Ethiopian Jews these examples they may be intuitively evocative Rena said	埃塞俄比亚犹太人的以色列说,
520	but really they're pointing to	但实际上他们指
521	matters of emotion matters of sentiment	情感问题情感问题
522	not true moral obligations	非真正的道德义务
523	and then	接着
524	there were a number of objections	有一些反对
525	not necessarily to patriotism as such	不一定要爱国
526	but to patriotism understood as	但爱国主义被理解为
527	an obligation of solidarity and membership	团结和成员资格的义务
528	beyond consent	未经同意
529	this objection	本反对
530	allowed that there can be obligations to the communities we inhabit including	允许对我们居住的社区承担义务,包括:
531	obligations of patriotism	爱国主义的义务
532	but this objection argued that	但这一反对意见认为,
533	all of the obligations of patriotism or of community or membership are actually	爱国主义、社区或成员的所有义务实际上都是
534	based on	基于
535	liberal ideas and perfectly compatible with them	自由主义思想与自由主义思想完全兼容
536	consent either implicit or explicit	默示或明示同意
537	or reciprocity	或对等
538	例如,在网站上的Julia Rothow
539	said that liberalism can endorse patriotism	说自由主义可以认可爱国主义
540	as a voluntary	自愿参加
541	moral obligation	道德义务
542	patriotism and familial love	爱国主义和家庭爱情
543	both fall under this category	两者都属于这一类
544	because after all Julia points out	因为毕竟茱莉亚指出
545	the Kantian framework	关甸框架
546	allows people free reign to choose to express virtues such as these	允许自由统治者选择表达这些美德
547	if they want to	如果他们想
548	so you don't need the idea	所以你不需要这个想法
549	of a non-voluntary particular moral obligation	非自愿的特定道德义务
550	to capture the moral force	抓住道德力量
551	of community	社区
552	values	数值
553	where's Julia?	茱莉亚呢?
554	so did I summarize	我也总结过
555	that that fairly	这公平
556	there is actually, Julia actually is in line with	事实上,茱莉亚是符合的
557	what Rawls says about this very	罗尔斯说的
558	topic	专题
559	you weren't aware of that	你根本没意识到
560	you came up with it on your own	你一个人想出来的
561	that's pretty good	不错
562	Rawls says when he's discussing political obligation	罗尔斯说,当他讨论政治义务时
563	he says it's one thing if someone	他说如果有人
564	runs for office	运行到办公室
565	or enlist in the military they're making a voluntary choice	或参军他们自愿选择
566	but Rawls says there is I believe no political obligation strictly speaking	但罗尔斯说,严格地说,我认为没有政治义务
567	for citizens	为公民服务
568	generally	一般情况
569	because it's not clear what is the requisite binding action	因为它不清楚什么是必要的约束行动
570	and who has performed it	和谁做了它,
571	so Rawls acknowledges	所以罗尔斯承认
572	that for ordinary citizens	适用于普通公民
573	there is no political obligation	没有政治义务
574	except	除外
575	insofar as	关于
576	some particular citizen	某些特定公民
577	willingly through an act of consent	自愿通过同意行为
578	undertakes	承诺
579	or chooses such an obligation that's in line	或选择符合规定的义务
580	with Julia's point	带着茱莉亚的观点
581	it's related to another objection	和另一个反对有关
582	that people have raised	被人们抚养成人
583	which is	这是
584	it's perfectly possible to recognize particular obligations to one's family or to one's country	完全有可能承认对家庭或国家的特殊义务
585	provided	提供
586	honoring those obligations doesn't require you to violate any of the natural duties	履行这些义务并不需要你违反任何自然义务
587	of universal respect for persons, queer persons. So that's consistent with the idea that we can choose	普遍尊重个人、同性恋者。因此,这是符合的想法我们可以选择
588	if we want to	如果我们想
589	to express a loyalty to our country or to our people or to our family	对祖国、人民、家庭表示忠诚
590	provided we don't do any injustice	只要我们不做任何不公正的事
591	within the framework acknowledging the priority that is	在承认优先事项的框架内
592	of the universal	联合国
593	duties	职责
594	the one objection that I didn't mention is the view of those who say	唯一我没有提到的反对意见是那些说
595	that obligations of membership really are a kind of collective selfishness	成员的义务确实是一种集体自私
596	why should we honor them?	我们为什么要尊重他们?
597	Isn't it just a kind of prejudice?	这不是一种偏见吗?
598	So what I'd like to do	所以,我想怎么办
599	perhaps if those of you	也许,如果那些你们
600	who have agreed	双方同意
601	who wrote and who have agreed to press these objections	谁写了,谁同意按这些反对
602	perhaps if you could gather down	也许如果你可以聚集下来
603	all together we'll form a team	我们一起组成一个团队
604	as we did once before and we'll	就像我们以前一样,我们会
605	see if you can respond to those who want to defend	看看你能不能回应那些想辩护的人
606	patriotism conceived	爱国主义
607	as a communal	作为社区
608	obligation.	义务。
609	Now, there were a number of people	现在,有很多人
610	who argued in	谁是争论
611	defense	辩护
612	of patriotism	爱国主义
613	as the communitarian	作为共产主义者
614	view conceives it so let me go down now and join the critics	景色是想象的,所以让我现在下去加入批评者
615	the critics of communitarianism if there's	共产主义的批评者如果有的话
616	a microphone that we could use somewhere.	麦克风,我们可以用它
617	Who as the critics of patriotism, communal patriotism,	作为爱国主义,社区爱国主义的批评者,
618	gather their forces here?	把他们的军队召集到这里?
619	Patrick if you want to you can join as well or Rena	帕特里克,如果你愿意,你也可以加入或者雷娜
620	others who have spoken or addressed this question are free to join in	已发言或已发言的其他人可自由加入
621	but I would like to hear now from	但我现在想听听
622	those of you who defend	你们中辩护者,
623	patriotism	爱国主义
624	and defend it	并捍卫它
625	as	作为
626	a moral obligation	道德义务
627	that can't be	这不可能
628	translated back into	翻译为
629	purely consent based	纯粹基于同意
630	terms	条件
631	can't be translated into liberal	不能翻译为自由主义
632	terms. Where's A.J. Kumar?	条件。库马在哪?
633	A.J. (英语).
634	everybody seems to know you.	大家都好像认识你
635	Let's hear from A.J.	来听听A. J.
636	You said in the same way I feel I owe more to my family than to the general community, I owe more to my	你说过,同样地,我觉得我欠我的家人而不是一般社区, 我欠我的
637	country than to humanity in general	国家相对于全人类
638	because my country holds a great stake in my identity.	因为我国对我的身份有重大关系
639	It is not prejudice for me to love my country	我热爱祖国是没有偏见的
640	unless it is prejudice for me to love my parents more than somebody else's.	除非我更爱父母而不是别人的偏见
641	So A.J. what would you say to this group?	A. J. 你会对这群人说什么?
642	Stand up.	站起来
643	I think that there's some	我觉得有些
644	fundamental	基础
645	obligation that comes from a communitarian responsibility to	社区的责任
646	people and groups that form your identity. I mean	组成你身份的人和团体我是说
647	even, like I'll give the example that you know	甚至,我也会举出你知道的例子
648	there are a lot of things about our government right now that I'm not	我们的政府有很多事情,现在我不是
649	in favor of but part of my identity is that	支持但部分我的身份是,
650	America values a free society where we can	美国珍视自由社会,我们可以
651	object to certain things and I think that's an expression of patriotism as well.	我认为这是爱国主义的体现
652	I go back to the parent example or even at Harvard I think	我回到父母的榜样,甚至哈佛,我想
653	I owe more to my roommates because they make up my identity than I do it to the	我欠我的室友更多的因为他们是我的身份而不是我做它
654	Harvard community as a whole and I think that applies to	整个哈佛社区我认为这适用于
655	our country because there are certain things that growing up here, yes we can't	我们的国家因为有些东西是在这里长大的,是的,我们不能
656	choose it, we can't choose our parents,	选择它,我们不能选择我们的父母,
657	things like that, but	类似的事情,但
658	it makes up part of our identity.	它构成我们身份的一部分。
659	Okay, who would like to take that on?	好吧,谁愿意承担呢?
660	Yeah, about the obligation to others	是啊,关于对他人的义务
661	simply by virtue of	只是因为
662	being in their,	在他们,
663	being influenced by them.	受到他们的影响。
664	I'm a German citizen and if I had been born 80 years earlier than	我是德国公民如果我出生早于80岁
665	I would have been a citizen of Nazi Germany and	我本来是纳粹德国的公民
666	for some reason I just don't think that I would	因为某种原因我只是不认为我会
667	have to feel obligated	不得不感到义务
668	towards Germany	德国
669	because I had benefited from actions of Nazis.	因为我从纳粹的行动中获益
670	I mean I guess my response to that would be you have	我的意思是,我想我的反应是,你会
671	hundreds of thousands of protesters in the United States right now	现在美国有数十万抗议者
672	who hold up signs that say peace is patriotic	他们举出一些迹象说和平是爱国的
673	and I'm sure there are people in this room who don't agree with that. I personally do	我敢肯定,在这个房间里有人不同意这一点。我个人有
674	and I would say that they're strongly objecting to basically	我想说他们强烈反对
675	everything the Bush administration is doing right now	布什政府现在所做的一切
676	but they still consider themselves loving their country because they're	但他们仍然认为自己爱自己的国家,因为他们
677	furthering the cause	推进事业
678	of what they see is best for the country and I tend to agree with that as a	他们所看到的对国家来说是最好的我倾向于同意
679	patriotic movement.	爱国运动.
680	Well, but	不过
681	how's that then, how do you still favor your country, how's that still patriotic?	那又怎样,你还怎么支持你的国家呢? 那又怎样?
682	I mean isn't that more sentimental attachment?	我的意思是,这不是更感伤的恋情?
683	Where's the obligation there?	义务在哪里?
684	Not to bring this back to Don Locke, but	不是把这个带回给唐洛克,但
685	I'd like to bring this back to Don Locke.	我想把这个还给唐洛克
686	In his conception of	在他的构想
687	when people join society	当人们加入社会
688	there's still some outlet, like if you're not satisfied with your	仍然有一些出口, 就像如果你不满意你的
689	society	社会
690	you do have a means of exit even though we had a lot of concerns about	你确实有出路尽管我们有很多担心
691	how	怎么样
692	you're born in and it's not very feasible, he still provides that option.	你出生了,这不太可行他仍然提供这个选择。
693	If we want to say that	如果我们想说
694	your obligation to society is a moral one	你对社会的义务是道德的
695	that means that prior to	这意味着在
696	knowing exactly what that society is going to be like or what your position is going to be in	确切知道社会会是什么样子或者你的地位会是什么
697	that society	社会
698	that means that you have a binding obligation to	这意味着你有义务
699	a completely unknown body that could be	一个完全未知的尸体,可能是
700	completely foreign to all of your personal beliefs or what you	完全与你的个人信仰无关
701	would hold to be.	将会是。
702	Do you think that that kind of communal obligation or patriotism means	你认为这种共同义务或爱国主义意味着
703	writing the community	写作社区
704	a blank moral check?	空白的道德检查?
705	Basically, yeah, I think that we can,	基本上,是的,我认为我们可以,
706	I think it's reasonable to say that	我觉得这样说很合理
707	as you grow and as you develop within that community that you acquire some type of	当你在社区里成长时当你在社区里成长时你就会获得某种
708	obligation based on reciprocity	基于互惠的义务
709	but to say that you have a moral obligation I think requires	但是说,你有一个道德义务我认为需要
710	a stronger justification.	一个更有力的理由。
711	Anyone else like to address that?	还有谁喜欢说这个?
712	I guess we could say that you could argue that you're morally obliged to	我想我们可以说,你可以争论你道德上有义务
713	society by the fact that there is this reciprocity. I think it's the idea that	由于存在这种对等性,社会才有了这种对等性。我想这是想法
714	you know we participate in society, we pay our taxes, we vote,	你知道我们参与社会, 我们交税,我们投票,
715	this is why	这就是为什么
716	we could say that we owe something to society but beyond that I don't think	我们可以说,我们欠社会的东西,但超越我认为
717	there's anything inherent	有内在的东西
718	in the fact that we are members of the society itself that we owe it anything. I	事实上,我们是社会本身的成员,我们欠它什么。一、导言
719	think insofar	想想,从这个角度
720	as the society gives us something, gives us protection, safety, security,	社会给我们一些东西给我们保护安全
721	then we owe the society something but	那我们就欠了社会一笔钱
722	nothing beyond what we give the society.	除了我们给社会的东西之外,别无他法。
723	Who wants to take that on?	谁想穿这个?
724	Rahul?	拉胡尔?
725	I don't think we	我不认为我们
726	I don't think we give the community a blank moral check	我不认为我们给社区一个空洞的道德检查
727	in that sense. I think we only give it	从这个意义上说我想我们只给它
728	a blank moral check when we	一个空白的道德检查当我们
729	advocate our sense of civic responsibility and when we say that	倡导我们的公民责任感当我们说
730	the debate doesn't matter because patriotism is a vice.	辩论不重要因为爱国是恶习
731	I think that patriotism is important because it gives us a sense of community,	我认为爱国主义之所以重要是因为它给了我们一种集体感
732	a sense of common civic virtue that we can engage	一种共同的公民美德感,我们可以参与
733	in the issues. Even if you don't agree	在问题。就算你不同意也一样
734	with the way the government is acting,	政府的行为方式
735	you can still love your country and hate the way it's acting. And I think because	你仍然可以爱你的国家, 恨它的行为方式。我认为,因为
736	out of that love of country	离开那对祖国的爱
737	you can debate with other people and have respect for their views	你可以和别人辩论尊重他们的意见
738	but still engage in the debate. If you	但仍参与辩论。如果你们
739	just say that, you know, patriotism is a vice,	只要说,你知道, 爱国主义是一种恶习,
740	you drop out of that debate and you cede the ground to people who are more	你放弃了辩论,你把土地让给了更多人
741	fundamentalist, who have a stronger view and who may coerce the community.	原教旨主义者,他们观点较强,可能胁迫社区。
742	Instead we should engage the other members of the community on that	相反,我们应该让社区其他成员参与其中。
743	same	不变
744	moral ground.	道德基础。
745	Well now this, what we hear from Ajay and Rahul is a very pluralistic	现在,我们从阿杰和拉胡尔那里听到的是一个非常多元的
746	argumentative	辩词
747	critically minded patriotism.	充满爱国心
748	Whereas	不过
749	what we hear from	我们听到的
750	Ajay and the critics of patriotism here is the worry	阿杰和爱国主义的批评者在这里是担心的
751	that to take	这要拿
752	patriotic obligation in a communal way,	以集体的方式履行爱国义务,
753	seriously,	说真的
754	involves a kind of loyalty	涉及某种忠诚
755	that doesn't let us just pick and choose among the beliefs or actions or	我们不只选择信仰或行动
756	or practices	或惯例
757	of our country. What more,	我们的国家。还有呢
758	what's left of loyalty	剩下的忠诚
759	if all we're talking about	如果我们谈论的一切
760	Ajay and Rahul, if all we're talking about	阿杰和拉胡尔,如果我们在谈论
761	is loyalty to principles of justice that may happen to be	对正义原则的忠诚可能恰好是
762	embodied in our community or not as the case may be and if not then we can	或不是,如果不是,我们可以
763	can reject its	可以拒绝它
764	course.	当然
765	I don't know, I've sort of given	我不知道,我有点给
766	a reply, I got carried away, I'm sorry, who would like	回答一下,我被冲动了,对不起,谁愿意
767	go ahead, Julia.	继续,茱莉亚。
768	Yeah, I think that	是啊,我觉得
769	patriotism, you need to define what that is. It sounds like, you know, you would	爱国主义,你需要定义是什么。这听起来像,你知道,你会
770	normally think that we are given a more weak definition here, patriotism amongst us,	通常认为我们被赋予更弱的定义, 我们爱国,
771	but it almost sounds like your definition is merely	但几乎听起来你的定义只是
772	to have some sort of civic involvement in debating within your society and I think	让公民参与你们社会的辩论我认为
773	that that	那个
774	kind of undermines maybe the moral, some of the moral worth of patriotism as a virtue	一种破坏道德,一些道德价值爱国作为一种美德
775	as well. I think if you can consent to a stronger form of patriotism if you want,	临Τ 我认为如果你可以同意更强烈的爱国主义形式如果你想,
776	that's	这是
777	a stronger, I guess, moral obligation than even what you're suggesting.	道德义务比你想的要强
778	What we really need	我们真正需要的
779	to sharpen the issue	突出问题
780	is an example	是一个实例
781	from the defenders of communitarianism	社区主义的捍卫者
782	of a case where loyalty	在忠诚的情况下
783	can actually compete with	能够与
784	and possibly outweigh	而且可能超过
785	universal principles of justice.	普遍正义原则。
786	Isn't that what, that's the test they really need	这不是他们真正需要的测试吗?
787	to meet, isn't it?	见面,不是吗?
788	So that's the test you need to meet	这就是你需要面对的考验
789	or any among you who would like to defend	或你们中愿意辩护的人,
790	obligations of membership or solidarity independent of	成员义务或团结独立于
791	ones that happen to	发生的事情
792	embody	显示
793	just principles.	只是原则。
794	Who has an example	谁有榜样
795	of a kind of loyalty	一种忠诚
796	that can and should compete with	能够并且应该与
797	universal moral claims, respect for persons?	普遍道德要求,尊重人?
798	Yeah, if I were working on an ec-problem set, for example,	是啊,如果我在做一个EC -问题集,例如,
799	and I saw that my roommate was cheating,	我看到我的室友在作弊,
800	that might be a bad thing for him to do, but I wouldn't turn him in.	这对他来说可能不好但我不会告发他
801	You would not turn him in? I wouldn't turn him in, and I think that	你不告发他? 我不会告发他,我想
802	I would argue that's the right thing to do because of my obligation to him, you know.	我认为这是正确的事情因为我对他的义务,你知道。
803	It may be wrong, but that's what I would do, and you know, I think that's what most	这也许是错误的, 但我会这样做, 你知道,我认为这是大多数
804	people would do as well.	人们也会这么做
805	Now there's a fair test.	现在有一个公平的测试。
806	He's not slipping out by saying he's invoking in the name of community some	他不会因为说他以社区的名义引用一些东西而溜出去
807	universal	普遍
808	principles of justice. What's your name? Stay there.	司法原则。你叫什么来着? 别动
809	So,	这么说
810	what do people think about Dan's case?	人们怎么看待丹的案子?
811	That's a harder case for the ethic of loyalty, isn't it?	这对忠诚的道德来说更难,不是吗?
812	But a truer test?	但更真实的测试?
813	How many agree with Dan?	有多少人同意丹的意见?
814	So, loyalty,	所以,忠诚,
815	Dan, loyalty has its part of sense.	丹,忠义有其义.
816	How many disagree with Dan?	有多少人和丹意见不一?
817	Well, I agree with Dan, but I agree that it's a choice that we make, but it's not	好吧,我同意Dan, 但我同意这是我们的选择,但它不是
818	necessarily right or wrong. I mean, I'm agreeing that I'm going to make the	必然是非. 我的意思是,我同意我会做
819	wrong choice because	错误的选择,因为
820	I'm going to choose my roommate, but I also recognize that choice isn't morally	我会选择我的室友, 但我也认识到,选择不是道德的
821	right.	对
822	So you're still translating even Dan's loyalty. You're saying, well, that's a	所以你还在翻译丹的忠诚你是说,嗯,这是一个
823	matter of choice, but	选择的问题,但
824	what's the right thing to do?	何等为正.
825	Most people put up their hand saying,	大多数人举起手来说:
826	Dan would be right to stand by his roommate	丹应该能支持他的室友
827	and not turn him in.	而不是告发他
828	Go ahead.	来吧。
829	Also, I think as a roommate you have	还有,我想你作为一个室友
830	insider information and	内幕信息和
831	that might not be something you want to use. That might be something unfair	这也许不是你想用的东西。这也许不公平
832	to hold against.	坚持反对。
833	You know, you're spending that much time with a roommate. Obviously, you're going to learn	你知道,你花这么多时间与室友。很明显,你会学会的
834	things about him, and	关于他的事,和
835	I don't think it's fair to reveal that to a greater community.	我认为向一个更大的社区透露这一点不公平。
836	But it's loyalty, Wojtek. You agree with Dan that loyalty is the ethic at stake here.	但是这是忠诚,沃伊泰克。你同意丹的观点忠诚是这里的伦理
837	Absolutely.	当然
838	You don't have a duty to tell the truth,	你没有义务说实话
839	to report someone who cheated?	报告一个作弊的人?
840	Not if you're,	如果你是的话
841	if you've been advantaged into getting that kind of information.	如果你有优势得到这种信息。
842	Before our	在我们之前
843	critics of patriotism leave,	批评爱国主义的假期,
844	I want to give you another version,	我想给你另一个版本,
845	a more public example	一个更公开的例子
846	of what we'll, I guess we should call it Dan's Dilemma.	我想我们应该称之为丹的难题
847	Dan's Dilemma of Loyalty, and I want to get the reaction of people to this.	丹的忠诚之谜我想得到人们的反应
848	This came up a few years ago in Massachusetts.	这几年前在马萨诸塞州出现。
849	Does anyone know who this man is?	有人知道这个人是谁吗?
850	Billy Bulger 没错
851	Who is Billy Bulger?	谁是比利・布格?
852	He was president of the Massachusetts State Senate for many years,	他担任马萨诸塞州参议院议长多年,
853	one of the most powerful politicians in Massachusetts,	马萨诸塞州最强大的政治家之一
854	and then he became president of the University of Massachusetts.	之后他成为马萨诸塞大学校长.
855	Billy Bulger 你听说过他的故事吗?
856	that bears on Dan's Dilemma?	和丹的难题有关?
857	Billy Bulger有个弟弟
858	named Whitey Bulger,	名为怀特·布格,
859	and this is Whitey Bulger.	这是怀特·布格
860	His brother Whitey	他的弟弟怀特尼,他现在已经...
861	was on the FBI's most wanted list,	在FBI最通缉名单上
862	alleged to be	被指称为
863	a notorious gang leader in Boston,	波士顿一个臭名昭著的帮派头目
864	responsible for many murders	对很多谋杀案负责
865	and now a fugitive from justice.	并且现在是逃犯
866	But when	但何时
867	when the U.S. attorney	当美国律师
868	they called	他们叫
869	Billy Bulger,	比利・布格
870	then the president of the University of Massachusetts	当时是马萨诸塞大学校长
871	before the grand jury	在大陪审团之前
872	wanted information on the whereabouts of his brother,	想知道他弟弟的下落
873	this fugitive,	这个逃犯,
874	and he refused	他拒绝
875	to give it.	给它。
876	U.S. attorney said,	美国律师说,
877	just to be clear,	说清楚一点
878	Mr. Bulger, you feel more loyalty to your brother	Bulger先生,你对你哥哥更忠诚一点
879	than to the people of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts?	而不是马萨诸塞州人民?
880	Billy Bulger说过我从没这么想过
881	but I do have a loyalty to my brother. I care about him.	但我对我哥哥有忠诚我关心他
882	I hope that I'm never helpful to anyone against him.	我希望我永远不会帮助任何人反对他。
883	I don't have an obligation	我没有义务
884	to help anyone	帮助任何人
885	catch my brother.	抓住我弟弟抓住我弟弟抓住我弟弟
886	Dan, you would agree?	丹,你同意吗?
887	How many would agree with the position	有多少人同意这一立场
888	of Billy Bulger?	比利・布格?
889	Let me give one other example and then we'll let the critics reply, the critics of loyalty	让我再举个例子然后让批评者回答忠诚的批评者
890	as we'll describe it.	正如我们将描述它。
891	Here's an even more fateful example	有个更难逃厄运的例子
892	from a figure in American history,	美国历史上的一个人物
893	Robert E. Lee.	罗伯特·E·李.
894	Now, Robert E. Lee on the eve of the Civil War was an officer of the Union Army.	现在,国共内战前夕的罗伯特·E·李(英语:Robert E. Lee)是同盟军军官.
895	He opposed secession,	他反对分离,
896	in fact regarded it as treason.	事实上,这是叛国罪。
897	When war loomed,	当战争来临时,
898	Lincoln offered Lee to be the commanding general of the Union Army	林肯让李成为联军的统帅
899	and Lee refused	李拒绝
900	and he described in a letter to his sons	他在给儿子们的信中,
901	why he refused.	他为什么拒绝?
902	With all my devotion to the Union, he wrote, I have not been able to make up my mind	他写道,我全心全意地为联盟奉献,我无法下定决心
903	to raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home.	举手对抗我的亲戚,我的孩子,我的家。
904	By which he meant Virginia.	他指的是弗吉尼亚
905	The Union is dissolved. I shall return to my native state	联盟解散. 我会回到祖国
906	and share the miseries of my people, save in her defense.	并分享我族人的忧患,但为她辩护。
907	I will draw my sword	我会拔剑
908	no more.	没有了。
909	Here's a real test, Dan,	这是一个真正的测试,丹,
910	for your principle of loyalty.	你的忠诚原则
911	Because here	因为这里
912	is the cause of the war against,	是战争的起因,
913	not only to save the Union but against slavery	不仅拯救联盟,而且反对奴隶制
914	and Lee is going to fight for Virginia	李会为弗吉尼亚而战
915	even though he doesn't share	虽然他不分享
916	the desire of the southern states to secede.	南方各州都希望分离
917	Now the communitarian would say there is something admirable in that.	现在,共产主义者会说有一些令人钦佩的东西。
918	Whether or not the decision was ultimately right, there's something admirable.	无论最终决定是否正确,都有令人钦佩的东西.
919	And the communitarian would say we can't even make sense.	共产主义者会说我们根本讲不通
920	We can't make sense	我们没有道理
921	of Lee's dilemma as a moral dilemma unless we acknowledge	除非我们承认李的两难境地
922	that the claim of loyalty	忠诚的主张
923	arising from his sense of narrative of who he is	由他对自己身份的描述感产生
924	is immoral, not just sentimental, emotional tug.	是不道德的, 不只是多愁善感的拖拉。
925	Alright, who would like to respond?	好吧,谁想回答?
926	To Dan's loyalty,	对丹的忠诚
927	to Billy Bulger's loyalty,	为了比利·布格的忠诚
928	or to Robert E. Lee's loyalty to Virginia?	还是为了罗伯特·E·李对弗吉尼亚的忠诚?
929	What do you say, Julia?	你觉得呢,朱莉娅?
930	Okay, well I think that these are some classic examples of, you know,	好吧,我认为这是一些经典的例子,你知道,
931	multiple spheres of influence and that you have conflicting communities that	并且你们有相互冲突的社区
932	your family and your country.	你的家人和你的祖国
933	I think that's one reason why the idea of choice in your obligation is so important because	我认为这就是为什么你义务中的选择思想如此重要的原因之一,因为
934	how else can you resolve this? You have,	不然你怎么能解决这个问题? 你有过
935	if you're morally obligated and there's no way out of this	如果你有道德义务并且没有出路
936	need for loyalty to both communities,	需要忠于两族,
937	you're trapped. There's nothing you can do. You have to make a choice.	你被困在这里了。无所施设. 你必须做出选择。
938	And	还有
939	I think that being able to choose based on other characteristics and merely, you know,	我认为,能够根据其他特征来选择,而仅仅是,你知道,
940	the arbitrary fact that you're a member of this community is important.	武断的事实,你是一个社区的成员是重要的。
941	Otherwise it's left to, I guess, randomness.	否则,我猜是随机的。
942	Well, Julia, the issue isn't whether these,	茱莉亚问题不是这些...
943	whether Dan makes a choice	丹是否做出选择
944	or Billy Bulger or Robert E. Lee. Of course they make a choice. The question is on what	或比利·布格或罗伯特·E·李. 当然,他们做出了选择。问题在于什么
945	grounds, on what principle should they choose?	他们应该选择什么原则?
946	The communitarian doesn't deny that there's a choice to be made. The question is	共产主义者并不否认可以做出选择. 问题是
947	which choice, on what grounds, and should loyalty as such	什么样的选择,基于什么理由,应该如此忠诚
948	weigh?	重吗?
949	Andre, now you want to...	安德烈,现在你想...
950	Alright, go ahead. What do you say? Well, one of the things we've noticed in the three	好吧,继续。你说什么? 我们注意到的三件事之一
951	examples is that the people have all chosen	举例来说,人民都选择了
952	the most immediate community of which they're a part, the more local one.	最直接的社区他们的一部分, 越本地。
953	And I think there's something to be said for that. It's not just random.	我觉得有话要说非唯随机.
954	I mean, there doesn't seem to be a conflict	我的意思是,似乎没有冲突
955	because they know which one is more important.	因为他们知道哪个更重要
956	And it's their family over	他们的家人结束了
957	the	联合国
958	Ecten课,
959	their state, over their country,	他们的国家,
960	and their family over the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.	和他们的家人过马萨诸塞州联邦。
961	So, I think	所以,我觉得
962	that's the answer to which is more important.	这才是更重要的答案
963	You think that the local, the more particular is always	你以为本地人越是特别
964	the weightier morally, Andre?	更重的道德,安德烈?
965	Well, I mean, there seems to be a trend in the three cases. I would agree with that, I think.	嗯,我的意思是,似乎有一个趋势在三个案件。我想,我同意这一点。
966	And I think most of us would agree that your family	我想我们大多数人会同意你的家人
967	takes precedence over	优先于
968	the United States, perhaps.	也许是美国
969	Which is why you go with Dan.	这就是为什么你和丹去。
970	Dan, loyalty	丹,忠诚
971	to the roommate over Ecten and the truth.	告诉室友埃肯和真相
972	Yeah, exactly.	没错
973	I would, because, I mean...	我会,因为,我的意思是...
974	I mean truth-telling, not the truth of Ecten.	我是说说真话,不是艾肯的真话
975	Yes.	对
976	Alright, so we understand.	好吧,所以我们理解。
977	But on the same example in terms of family, you had cases in the Civil War where brother was	但是在家庭方面你也有在南北战争中弟弟是
978	pitted against brother on both sides of the war, where they chose country	在战争的两边与兄弟为敌他们选择了国家
979	instead of family.	而不是家人的爱
980	So, I think the exact same war shows that	所以,我认为同样的战争表明,
981	different people have different means of making these choices and that there is no	不同的人有不同的选择方式,没有
982	one set of values or one set of morality	一套价值观或一套道德
983	that communitarians can stick to. And personally, I think that's the biggest problem with	共产主义者可以坚持。我个人认为这是最大的问题
984	communitarians	社区居民
985	that we don't have	我们没有
986	one set of standard moral obligations.	一套标准道德义务。
987	And tell me your name.	告诉我你的名字。
988	Samantha. So, Samantha,	萨曼莎所以,萨曼莎,
989	you agree with Patrick, Patrick's point the other day,	你同意帕特里克那天帕特里克说的
990	that there may be,	也许有,
991	if we allow obligations to be defined by community identification or membership,	如果我们允许根据社区身份或成员身份确定义务,
992	they may conflict, they may overlap,	它们可能互相冲突,可能相互重叠,
993	they may compete,	他们或许会互相竞争,
994	and there is no clear principle.	并且没有明确的原则。
995	Andre says there's a clear principle,	安德烈说有一个明确的原则,
996	the most particular.	最特别的
997	The other day, Nicola, who is sitting over here, where's Nicola, said,	那天,坐在这的尼古拉说
998	the most universal.	最普遍的。
999	You're saying, Samantha,	你是说,萨曼莎,
1000	the scale of the community as such can't be the decisive moral factor.	社区的规模不能成为决定性的道德因素。
1001	So there has to be some other	所以一定还有别的
1002	moral	道义
1003	judgment.	判决。
1004	All right, let's first, let's let our critics of communal patriotism,	好吧,让我们先让我们的批评社区爱国主义,
1005	let's express our appreciation and thank them for their having stood up	让我们表示赞赏和感谢他们站起来
1006	and responded to these arguments,	并对这些论点作出答复,
1007	to find the issue.	找到问题。
1008	Let's turn	我们转身
1009	to the implications for justice	对司法的影响
1010	of the positions that we've heard discussed here.	我们听到讨论过的立场
1011	One of the worries	一个担心
1012	underlying	基础
1013	these multiple objections	这些多重反对
1014	to the idea of loyalty or membership as having independent moral weight	忠诚或成员资格是具有独立道德影响力的概念
1015	is that it seems to argue	是它似乎争论
1016	that there is no way of finding principles of justice	找不到正义原则
1017	that are detached from	脱离
1018	conceptions of the good life	美好生活的概念
1019	as they may be lived	他们可以活着
1020	in any particular community.	在任何特定社区。
1021	Suppose the communitarian argument is right. Suppose the priority of the right over the	假设公社的论点是正确的。假设权利优先于
1022	good can't be sustained.	好事无法维持
1023	Suppose instead	假设
1024	that justice and rights unavoidably	正义和权利不可避免
1025	are bound up with	与
1026	conceptions of the good.	善的概念。
1027	Does that mean	这是否意味着
1028	that justice	正义
1029	is simply	很简单
1030	a creature	一个生物
1031	of convention,	公约,
1032	of the values that happen to prevail in any given community	在任何特定社区偶然流行的价值观
1033	at any given time?	在任何特定时间?
1034	One of the writings we have	我们的著作之一
1035	among the communitarian critics	在社区批评者中
1036	is by Michael Walser.	是迈克尔·瓦尔瑟写的
1037	He draws the implications of justice this way.	他这样画正义的意义。
1038	Justice is relative to social	司法相对于社会
1039	meanings. A given society is just	意义一个社会是公正的
1040	if its substantive life is lived in a certain way	如果其实质性生活以某种方式存在
1041	in a way that is faithful to the shared understandings	以忠于共同谅解的方式
1042	of the members.	成员名单。
1043	So, Walser's account seems to bear out	因此,沃尔瑟的账户似乎证明
1044	the worry	担心
1045	that if we can't find independent principles of justice, independent that is from conceptions	如果我们找不到独立的正义原则独立的原则就是从概念上
1046	of the good that prevail in any given community,	在任何特定社区中普遍存在的利益,
1047	that we're simply left with justice being a matter of fidelity or faithfulness	我们只是把正义留给忠诚或忠诚
1048	to the shared understandings or values or conventions that prevail in any given society	在任何特定社会中普遍存在的共同理解或价值观或公约
1049	at any given time.	在任何特定时间。
1050	But is that an adequate way	但是,这是一个适当的方式
1051	of thinking	思维
1052	about justice?	关于正义?
1053	Let's take a look at a short clip	我们看看短片
1054	from the documentary Eyes on the Prize.	从纪录片"眼看奖"。
1055	Goes back in the nineteen fifties in the south.	回到南方十九个五十年代
1056	Here are some	这里有些
1057	situated	地点
1058	American southerners	美国南方人
1059	who believe in the tradition in the shared understandings	他们信仰共同的谅解,
1060	of segregation.	隔离。
1061	Find out the arguments they make about loyalty and tradition	找出他们关于忠诚和传统的论点
1062	and see if they don't make	看他们有没有做
1063	you uneasy	烦死了
1064	about tying arguments about justice	关于将正义的论据捆绑起来
1065	to the shared understandings or traditions	理解或传统
1066	that prevail in any given society at the moment. Let's run the clip.	在任何特定社会,在目前盛行。让我们运行剪辑。
1067	This land is composed of	这片土地由
1068	two different cultures.	两个不同的文化。
1069	A white culture and a colored culture and I've lived close to them all my life.	一种白色的文化和一种彩色的文化我一生都生活在他们身边
1070	But I'm told now that we mistreated them and that we must change	但我现在被告知我们虐待他们我们必须改变
1071	and these changes are coming faster than I expected.	这些变化比我预期的要快
1072	And I'm required to	而我必须
1073	make decisions	作出决定
1074	on a basis of	以
1075	a new way of thinking and it's difficult.	新的思维方式和它的难度。
1076	It's difficult for me, it's difficult for	我很难,我很难
1077	all servants.	所有仆人都一样
1078	Well there you have it.	好吧,你在这里。
1079	Narrative selves, situated selves, invoking tradition.	叙述自己,定位自己, 援引传统。
1080	Doesn't that show us	这不表明我们
1081	that justice can't be tied to the shared understandings of goods that prevail in	正义不能与共同理解
1082	any given community at any given time?	任何特定时间的族群?
1083	Or is there a way of rescuing that claim	或者有办法挽救这个要求
1084	from this example?	从这个例子?
1085	Think about that question and we'll return to it next time.	想想这个问题,我们下次再来吧
1086	Don't miss the chance to interact online with other viewers of Justice. Join the	不要错过与司法界其他观众在线互动的机会. 加入到
1087	conversation. Take a pop quiz. Watch lectures you've missed and learn a lot more.	谈话。做个流行测验看着你错过的讲座学到更多
1088	访问法官Harvard.org. 谓之正法.
1089	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
1090	additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

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P13 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p13 12. 12.同性婚姻的争论 (P13)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p13 12. 12.同性婚姻的争论 (P13)

发布于 2026-07-29 · 时长 54:49

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	We ended last time	我们上次结束了
0:11	talking about the narrative conception of the self.	谈论自我的叙事概念。
0:14	We were testing	我们在测试
0:16	the narrative conception of the self and the idea of obligations of solidarity or	自我的叙述概念和团结义务的概念;
0:21	membership	成员
0:25	that did not flow	没有流动
0:27	from consent	拒绝同意
0:29	that claimed us for reasons	要求我们的原因
0:31	unrelated to a contract or an agreement	与合同或协议无关
0:35	or a choice we may have made.	或者我们做了一个选择

展开字幕全文（1082 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	We ended last time	我们上次结束了
2	talking about the narrative conception of the self.	谈论自我的叙事概念。
3	We were testing	我们在测试
4	the narrative conception of the self and the idea of obligations of solidarity or	自我的叙述概念和团结义务的概念;
5	membership	成员
6	that did not flow	没有流动
7	from consent	拒绝同意
8	that claimed us for reasons	要求我们的原因
9	unrelated to a contract or an agreement	与合同或协议无关
10	or a choice we may have made.	或者我们做了一个选择
11	And we were debating among ourselves	我们彼此辩论
12	whether there are any obligations of this kind	是否有任何此类义务;
13	or whether all apparent obligations of solidarity and membership can be	或所有明显的团结义务和成员资格义务是否都是
14	translated	翻译
15	into	输入
16	consent	同意书
17	or reciprocity or a universal duty that we owe persons, great persons.	或对等,或我们应尽的普遍义务。
18	And then there were those who defended the idea of loyalty and of patriotism.	后来有人为忠诚和爱国主义的思想辩护.
19	So the idea of loyalty	所以,忠诚的想法
20	and of solidarity and of membership	团结和成员资格
21	gathered a certain kind of	收集了某种类型的
22	intuitive moral force in our discussion	我们讨论中的直觉道德力量
23	and then as we concluded	然后当我们得出结论
24	we considered what seems to be a pretty powerful counter example	我们考虑过什么似乎是一个相当强大的反例
25	to that idea.	对这个想法。
26	Namely	也就是说
27	the film of those southern segregationists	这些南方隔离主义者的电影
28	in the nineteen fifties	十九个五十年代
29	and they talked all about	他们谈论了很多
30	their traditions,	他们的传统,
31	their history, the way in which their identities were bound up with their	他们的历史,他们的身份与他们的
32	life history, do you remember that?	人生史,你还记得吗?
33	What flowed from that history, from that narrative sense of identity for those	从那段历史中产生的东西, 从描述性的认同感中产生
34	southern segregationists?	南方隔离主义者?
35	They said we have to defend our way of life.	他们说我们必须捍卫我们的生活方式。
36	Is this a fatal or a decisive objection to the idea	这是致命还是决定性的反对
37	of the narrative conception of the self? That's the question we were left with.	自我的叙事概念? 这就是我们的问题。
38	What I would like to do today	今天我想做什么就做什么吗?
39	is to advance an argument	是要推进一个论证
40	and see what you make of it.	且见其造化.
41	And let me tell you	让我告诉你
42	what that argument is.	这争论是什么。
43	I would like to defend	我想辩护
44	the narrative conception	叙事概念
45	of the person	该人
46	as against the voluntary conception.	与自愿概念相对应。
47	I would like	и稱
48	to defend	辩护
49	the idea that there are obligations of solidarity or membership.	认为有团结或成员资格的义务。
50	Then	礛
51	I want to suggest	我想建议
52	that there being such obligations	有这种义务
53	lends force to the idea	让这个想法生效
54	when we turn to justice	当我们走向正义
55	that arguments about justice	关于正义的争论
56	can't be detached, cannot be detached after all	不能脱离, 毕竟不能脱离
57	from questions of the good.	从好的问题。
58	But I wanted to distinguish two different ways	但我想区分两种不同的方式
59	in which justice might be tied to the good	正义可能与正义联系在一起
60	and argue for one of them.	并为其中一人辩护。
61	Now the voluntary conception of the person of Kant and Rawls we saw was powerful and liberating.	现在我们看到的康德和罗尔斯人的自愿概念是强大和解放的。
62	A further appeal is its universal aspiration.	另一个呼吁是它的普遍愿望。
63	The idea of treating persons as persons	将人视为人的想法
64	without prejudice,	不带偏见,
65	without discrimination.	不歧视。
66	And I think that's what	我想这就是
67	led some among us	带领我们中的一些人
68	to argue	辩论
69	that okay maybe there are obligations of membership but they are always subordinate, they must always be subordinate	也许有成员义务但他们总是从属他们必须永远从属
70	to the duties that we have to human beings as such, the universal duties.	我们对人类的责任,即普遍的义务。
71	But is that right?	是吗?
72	If our encompassing loyalties should always take precedence	如果我们的忠诚永远优先
73	over more particular ones	更特别的
74	then the distinction between	然后,区分
75	friends and strangers	朋友和陌生人们
76	should ideally be overcome.	最好能够克服
77	Our special concern for the welfare of friends would be a kind of prejudice,	我们特别关注朋友的福利是一种偏见,
78	a measure of our distance from universal	衡量我们与世界的距离
79	human concern.	人类的关心。
80	But if you look closely	但是如果你仔细看
81	at that idea	这个想法
82	what kind of a moral	什么样的道德
83	universe, what kind of moral imagination	宇宙,什么样的道德想象
84	would that lead you to?	这能让你找到吗?
85	The Enlightenment philosopher Montesquieu	启蒙主义哲学家蒙特斯基乌
86	gives perhaps the most powerful and I think ultimately the most honest account	说不定最有力量的人最终也是最诚实的人
87	of where this	这里
88	relentless	无情
89	universalizing	普及
90	tendency	趋势
91	leads the moral imagination.	领导着道德的想象力。
92	Here's how Montesquieu put it. He said a truly virtuous man	这是蒙特斯基厄说的他说,一个真正的正直的人
93	{\fnSIMHEI\fs22\1cHFFFFFF\3cHFF8000}帮助最遥远的陌生人 {\fnSIMHEI\fs22\1cHFFFFFF\3cHFF8000}以及他自己的朋友
94	And then he adds	然后他又说
95	listen to this.	听着
96	If men were perfectly virtuous	如果男人是纯洁的
97	they wouldn't have friends.	他们不会有朋友。
98	But it's difficult to imagine a world	但很难想象世界
99	in which persons were so virtuous that they had no friends, only a universal	在其中,人是如此的善良, 他们没有朋友,
100	disposition to friendliness.	准备为方便。
101	The problem isn't	问题不是
102	simply	简单
103	that such a world would be difficult to bring about,	这样一个世界将难以实现,
104	that it's unrealistic.	这是不现实的。
105	The deeper problem	更深层的问题
106	is that	这是
107	such a world would be difficult to recognize	这样的世界是很难承认的
108	as a human world.	作为一个人类的世界。
109	The love of humanity is a noble sentiment	人类的爱是一种高尚的情感
110	but most of the time	但大多数时候
111	we live our lives by smaller solidarities.	我们靠较小的团结生活
112	This may reflect certain limits to the bounds of moral sympathy	这可能反映了道德同情限度的某些限制
113	but more important	但更重要的是,我们...
114	it reflects the fact	它反映了事实
115	that we learn to love humanity	我们学会爱人
116	not in general	非一般情况
117	but through its particular expressions.	但通过它的具体表达
118	So	这么说
119	these are some considerations.	这些都是一些考虑。
120	They're not knockdown arguments.	他们不是打倒辩论。
121	But moral philosophy	但道德哲学
122	can't offer knockdown arguments but considerations	无法提供倒计时的论据但考虑
123	of the kinds	类型
124	that we've been	我们一直
125	discussing and arguing about	讨论和争论
126	all along. Well suppose	一直这样假设
127	that's right.	没错
128	One way of assessing whether this picture of the person and of obligation is right	评估个人和义务的这一状况是否正确的一种方式
129	is to see	是要看见
130	what are its consequences for justice.	它对正义的后果是什么?
131	And here's where it confronts	这就是它面对的地方
132	a serious problem and here we go back to our southern segregationists.	我们回到南方的隔离主义者身边
133	They felt the weight of history.	他们感受到了历史的重量。
134	Do we admire their character?	我们佩服他们的性格吗?
135	These segregationists who wanted to preserve their way of life?	这些隔离主义者想保持他们的生活方式?
136	Are we committed to saying	我们承诺要说
137	if we accept the idea of solidarity membership, are we committed to saying	如果我们接受团结会会籍的想法,我们是否承诺说
138	that justice is tied to the good in the sense that justice means	正义与正义联系在一起
139	whatever a particular community or tradition says it means	无论特定社区或传统怎么说
140	including those southern segregationists.	包括那些南方隔离主义者。
141	Here it's important to distinguish two different ways	要分辨两种不同的方式
142	in which justice can be tied to the good.	正义可以和好人联系在一起
143	One is a relativist way.	一是相对论法.
144	That's the way that says	就是这样
145	to think about rights, to think about justice,	思考权利,思考正义,
146	look to the values that happen to prevail in any given community at any given time.	关注任何特定社区在任何特定时间偶然流行的价值观。
147	Don't judge them	别评判他们
148	by some outside standard	根据某些外部标准
149	but instead conceive justice as a matter of being faithful to the shared understandings	却把正义视为忠实于共识
150	of a particular tradition.	某种传统
151	But there's a problem with this way of tying justice to the good.	但这种将正义与善联系起来的方式有问题.
152	The problem	问题
153	is that it makes justice wholly conventional,	是它使正义完全常规,
154	a product of circumstance	环境产物
155	and this deprives justice of its	这剥夺了正义
156	critical character.	关键人物。
157	But there is a second way	但还有另一种办法
158	in which justice	司法权
159	can be tied with or bound up with the good.	可以和好人捆绑或捆绑在一起
160	On this second non-relativist way of linking justice with conceptions of the good,	在将正义与善良概念联系起来的第二种非相对主义方式上,
161	principles of justice	司法原则
162	depend for their justification	取决于理由
163	not on the values that happen to prevail at any given moment	不是任何特定时刻出现的价值观
164	in a certain place	在某个地方
165	but instead on the moral worth or the intrinsic good of the ends rights serve.	但相反的是,权利最终的道德价值或内在好处是起作用的。
166	On this non-relativist view, the case for recognizing a right depends on showing	根据这种非相对主义观点,承认某项权利的理由取决于是否表明
167	that it honors or advances some important human good.	它尊重或促进一些重要的人类利益。
168	The second way	第二条路
169	of tying justice to the good is not, strictly speaking, communitarian	严格地说,将正义与正义联系在一起并不是社区性的。
170	if by communitarian you mean	如果你是说社区主义者
171	just giving over to a particular community	只是给一个特定的社区
172	the definition of justice.	正义的定义。
173	Now what I would like to suggest that of these two different ways of linking justice to the	现在我想建议的是,在这两种将司法与
174	good	不错
175	the first is insufficient	第一点不够
176	because the first leaves justice the creature of convention.	因为第一点是正义是公约的产物
177	It doesn't give us enough	不够
178	moral resources to respond to those southern segregationists who invoke their way of life,	以道德资源来对付那些援引其生活方式的南方隔离主义者,
179	their traditions,	他们的传统,
180	their way of doing things.	他们做事的方式
181	But if justice is bound up with the good in a non-relativist way, there's a big challenge,	但是如果正义以非相对主义的方式与善相联,那么就有一个巨大的挑战,
182	a big question to answer.	一个大问题要回答。
183	How can we reason about the good?	我们怎么解释好?
184	What about the fact that people hold different	那么,人们持有不同的事实
185	conceptions of the good?	对好的想法?
186	Different ideas	不同的想法
187	about the purposes of key social institutions.	关键社会机构的目的。
188	Different ideas	不同的想法
189	about what social goods and human goods are worthy of honor and recognition.	关于哪些社会公益物和人类公益物值得荣誉和表彰。
190	We live in a pluralist society. People disagree about the good.	我们生活在一个多元化社会。众生对善不一.
191	That's one of the incentive to try to find principles of justice	这是找到正义原则的动机之一
192	and rights that don't depend	和不依赖的权利
193	on any particular ends or purposes	目标或目的
194	or goods.	或货物。
195	So is there a way to reason about the good?	那么,有办法解释好事吗?
196	Before addressing that question,	在讨论这个问题之前,
197	I want to address a slightly easier question.	我想谈一个稍微简单的问题。
198	Is it necessary, is it unavoidable	有必要吗,是不可避免的
199	when arguing about justice	当争论正义时
200	to argue about the good? And my answer to that question	争辩好? 我对这个问题的回答
201	is yes.	没错
202	It's unavoidable.	这是不可避免的。
203	It's necessary.	这是必要的。
204	So for the remainder of today, I want to take up,	所以今天剩下的时间我想谈谈
205	I want to try to	我想尝试
206	advance that claim	预付款项
207	that reasoning about the good, about purposes and ends, is an unavoidable feature of arguing	关于善、宗旨和目的的推理,是争论的必然特点。
208	about justice. It's necessary.	关于正义。这是必要的。
209	Let me see if I can establish that.	我看看能不能证明这一点。
210	And for that,	为此,
211	I'd like	и稱
212	for us to begin a discussion	让我们开始讨论
213	of same-sex marriage.	在同性婚姻中,
214	Now, same-sex marriage	现在,同性婚姻
215	draws on,	借过
216	implicates	涉案人
217	deeply contested	深有争议
218	and controversial ideas	和有争议的想法
219	morally and religiously.	在道德和宗教上。
220	And so there's a powerful incentive	因此,有一个强大的激励
221	to embrace a conception of justice or of rights	接受正义或权利的概念
222	that doesn't require the society as a whole to pass judgment	不需要全社会做出判断
223	one way or another	以某种方式
224	on those	关于这些
225	hotly contested moral and religious questions	激烈争论的道德和宗教问题
226	about the moral permissibility of homosexuality,	关于同性恋的道德允许性,
227	about the proper ends of marriage	关于婚姻的适当结束
228	as a social institution.	作为一个社会机构。
229	So clearly, if there's an incentive to resolve this question, to define people's rights	很明显,如果有办法解决这个问题, 确定人们的权利
230	in a way that doesn't require the society as a whole	以不需要整个社会的方式
231	to sort out those moral and religious disputes,	解决那些道德和宗教纠纷,
232	that would be very attractive.	这将是非常吸引人。
233	So what I would like to do now	所以我现在想做什么
234	is to see, using the same-sex marriage case,	以同性婚姻为例
235	whether it's possible	可能吗?
236	to detach	切换
237	one's views	一个观点
238	about the moral permissibility of homosexuality and about	关于同性恋的道德允许性和
239	the purpose, the end of marriage, to detach	目的,婚姻的终结, 拆散
240	those questions	这些问题
241	from the question	从问题
242	of whether the state should recognize	国家是否应当承认
243	marriage or not.	结婚与否。
244	So, let's begin.	所以,让我们开始。
245	I would like to begin	我想开始
246	by hearing the arguments of those	听取他们的论点
247	who believe that there should be no same-sex marriage	他们认为不应该有同性婚姻
248	but that the state should only recognize marriage between a man and a woman.	但国家只应承认男女之间的婚姻。
249	Do I have volunteers? I had two. There were	我有志愿者吗? 我有两个曾经
250	two people I asked,	我问两个人,
251	people who had voiced their views already on the Justice blog,	在司法博客上表达自己观点的人,
252	Mark Lough	马克·劳
253	and Ryan McCaffrey. Where are you?	还有瑞安・麦卡弗里你们在哪?
254	Okay. Mark?	摆马克?
255	And where's Ryan?	莱恩呢?
256	Let's go first to Mark.	让我们先去马克。
257	I have sort of a teleological understanding	我有点心智上的理解
258	of	页:1
259	the purpose of sex and the purpose of marriage.	性的目的和婚姻的目的。
260	I think that for people like myself,	我想对于像我这样的人来说
261	who are a Christian and also a Catholic,	他们是基督徒,也是天主教徒,
262	the purpose of sex	性别目的
263	is, one, for its procreative	其一,因为它的生殖性
264	uses, and two,	使用,和 2,
265	for	(单位:千美元)
266	a unifying purpose between	统一目标
267	a man and a woman	一个男人和一个女人
268	within the institution of marriage. You have a certain conception of the purpose, or the telos,	婚姻制度。你对这个目的有某种认识或者是提摩斯
269	of human sexuality,	人类性行为,
270	which is bound up with procreation,	与生育相连,
271	as well as union. And the essence of marriage, the purpose	还有工会婚姻的本质,目的
272	of marriage as a social institution,	作为社会机构的婚姻,
273	is to give expression	表达式
274	to that telos,	给那个提洛斯,
275	and to honor that purpose, namely the procreative purpose	并尊重这一目的,即生殖目的;
276	of marriage. Is that a fair summary of your view?	结婚你的观点是这样总结的吗?
277	Where's Ryan?	赖安呢?
278	Do you agree more or less with Mark's	你或多或少同意马克的
279	reasons?	原因吗?
280	Yes, I agree.	是的,我同意这一点。
281	I think that	我觉得
282	the ideal of marriage involves procreation.	婚姻的理想涉及生育。
283	And it's fine that homosexuals would go off	同性恋也没关系
284	and	和
285	cohabitate with each other, but the government doesn't have a responsibility to	同居,但政府没有责任
286	encourage that.	鼓励这样做。
287	Alright, so the government should not encourage	好吧,所以政府不应该鼓励
288	homosexual behavior by conferring the recognition of marriage.	同性恋行为通过承认婚姻。
289	Yeah, it would be wrong to outlaw it,	是啊,这是错的违法,
290	but encouraging it is not necessary.	但鼓励是没有必要的。
291	Who has a reply?	谁有答复?
292	Yes.	对
293	Hannah?	汉娜?
294	I'd just like to ask a question to Mark.	我只想问马克一个问题。
295	Let's say you got married to a woman,	假设你嫁给了一个女人
296	you did not have sex with her before marriage, and then when you became married,	结婚前你没有和她发生性关系然后结婚后
297	it became evident that you were an infertile couple. Do you think that it	很明显你们是一对不育的夫妇你觉得
298	should be illegal for you to engage in sex if children will not	如果孩子不做爱,你应该违法
299	result from that act?	行为的结果?
300	Yeah, I think that it is moral, and that's why I gave the two-fold purpose.	是啊,我认为这是道德的, 这就是为什么我给出了双重目的。
301	So like, a woman, say, I think older couples can get married, someone, a woman	所以,一个女人,说,我认为老年夫妇可以结婚,某人,一个女人
302	who's beyond,	谁超越,
303	who's already had menopause,	谁已经更年期了,
304	and who can't have a child, because I think that	和谁不能有一个孩子, 因为我认为
305	sex has these,	性有这些,
306	it has purposes beyond procreation. I hate to be uncouth, but have you ever engaged	它的目的不仅仅是生育我讨厌不严谨但你有没有订婚过
307	in masturbation?	手淫吗?
308	You don't have to answer that.	你不必回答这个问题。
309	Just a minute.	请等一下
310	I'd like to respond to that.	我想对此作出回应。
311	We've done pretty well	我们做得很好
312	over a whole semester, and we're doing pretty well now,	整个学期我们表现得很好
313	dealing with questions that most people think can't even be discussed in a	处理大多数人认为无法在
314	university setting.	大学环境。
315	Hannah, you have a powerful point. Make that point as a general	汉娜,你很有说服力做一个将军
316	argument, rather than	参数,而不是
317	as an interrogative. But make the point.	作为审讯。但说正法.
318	What's the principle that you're appealing? What's the argument you have in mind?	你上诉的原则是什么? 你想说什么?
319	Put it in the third person, rather than	放在第三个人,而不是
320	in the second person. Make the argument. Go ahead.	在第二个人。作是辩才. 来吧。
321	Biblically, masturbation or onanism	圣经,自慰或自恋
322	is not permissible because it's spilling your seed on the earth when	因为它将你的种子洒在地上
323	it's not going to result in the birth of a child.	它不会导致孩子的诞生。
324	But what I'm saying is,	但我要说的是,
325	you're saying that sex, there's something wrong with sex if it doesn't	你说的性,有错与性,如果它不
326	produce children or reinforce the marriage bond.	生育子女或加强婚姻关系。
327	But then how can you say that there's something wrong, that masturbation	但是,你怎么能说有事,自慰
328	is permissible if masturbation obviously is not going to create a child?	如果手淫显然不会造成孩子,那么是否允许?
329	Yeah, I think marriage	是啊,我觉得婚姻
330	is society's way to create this separate institution where they say,	社会是建立这个独立机构的方法,他们说,
331	this is what we hold as a virtue. Yes, every day we fall short.	这是我们所持有的美德。是的,我们每天都缺钱。
332	And people fall short in so many different other ways. But I think that	人们在很多不同的方面都不足。但我认为
333	if you personally fall short in some moral sphere, as we all do, that doesn't	如果你个人在一些道德领域不足,像我们一样,这不是
334	take the right of	向右移动
335	you to argue.	你来争辩吧
336	I want you to stay there. I want to bring in	我要你留在这我想带进来
337	some other voices and we'll continue. Stay there if you would. Go ahead.	其他的声音,我们会继续。如果你愿意的话,留在那。来吧。
338	I think that the response to the masturbation... My name's Steve.	我想对自慰的反应... 我叫史提夫,你好吗?
339	The response to the masturbation issue is, it's not something that's permissible. I	对自慰问题的反应是,这不是允许的东西. 一、导言
340	don't think anyone will argue that homosexual sex is impermissible.	别以为有人会认为同性恋是不允许的
341	It's just that society has no place in letting you marry yourself if	只是社会没有地方让你自己结婚
342	masturbation is something that you do.	手淫是你们做的事
343	Alright, Hannah.	好吧,汉娜。
344	Alright, Steve has drawn...	好吧,史蒂夫已经画...
345	Alright, that's a good argument.	好吧,这是一个很好的争论。
346	Steve has drawn our attention to the fact that there are two issues here.	史蒂夫提请我们注意,这里有两个问题。
347	One of them is the moral permissibility of various practices.	其中之一是各种做法的道德允许性。
348	The other is the fit between certain practices,	另一种是某些做法之间的吻合,
349	whatever their moral permissibility,	无论道德上允许什么
350	with the honor or recognition	荣誉或承认
351	that the state should accord in allowing marriage. So Steve has a pretty good	国家应同意允许结婚。所以,史蒂夫有一个相当好
352	counter-argument.	反辩.
353	What do you say to Steve?	你对史蒂夫怎么说?
354	Well, I think that	我觉得
355	it's clear that human sexuality is something that is, you know, inherent in, I believe,	显然,人类的性爱是,你知道, 内在的,我相信,
356	most people. And it's not something you can avoid. And masturbation, I mean,	大多数人。而且这不是你能避免的还有自慰,我的意思是,
357	yeah, you can't marry yourself, but I don't think that	是啊,你不能嫁给自己, 但我不认为
358	takes away from the fact that, you know, homosexuals are people too.	远离事实,你知道,同性恋也是人。
359	And I just, I can't understand why	我只是,我不明白为什么
360	they wouldn't be able to marry each other. If you want to marry yourself,	他们不可能结婚如果你想嫁给自己
361	I mean, I don't know if you can legally do that.	我的意思是,我不知道你是否能合法这样做。
362	That's fine, but I don't think... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.	没关系但我不觉得... 慢着,慢着
363	Now here we're deciding, here we're deliberating as if legislators what the law	现在我们来决定,我们来考虑立法者什么法律
364	should be.	应该
365	So you said, Steve, that's fine. Does that mean as a legislator you would vote	你说,史蒂夫,没关系。这是否意味着作为一个立法者你会投票
366	for a law of marriage that would be so broad	婚姻法如此宽泛
367	that it would let	它会让
368	people marry themselves?	人们结婚吗?
369	Well, I mean,	我是说...
370	that's really beyond the pale of, like,	这真的超出了苍白的,喜欢,
371	anything that would really happen, but	任何真的会发生的事,但
372	I don't think that... But in principle. Yeah, in principle. Yeah, sure, I mean, if Steve wants to marry	我不认为... 但原则上是啊,原则上。是啊,当然,我的意思是,如果史蒂夫想结婚
373	himself, I'm not going to stop him.	我不会阻止他
374	And you would confer state recognition on that	你会得到国家承认
375	solo marriage.	单独结婚
376	And while we're at it, what about consensual polygamous marriages?	而当我们到了它, 那自愿的多配偶婚姻呢?
377	I actually think that if the male and the female, or if the wives and the	事实上,我认为,如果男女, 或者妻子和女人
378	man and the husband or the husbands and the wife are consenting, it should be	男人和丈夫或丈夫和妻子都同意,应该
379	permissible.	允许
380	Who else? I know there are a lot of people who...	还有谁? 我知道有许多人...
381	Yes, okay, down here. Stand up and tell us your name. Victoria.	是的,好吧,在这里。站起来告诉我们你的名字。维多利亚
382	So we're talking about the theological reasoning here for marriage, but I	我们谈的是婚姻的神学推理
383	think the problem is that we're talking about it within	问题是我们是在谈论它
384	the Catholic viewpoint,	天主教的观点,
385	whereas the theological	而神学
386	and the point to marriage for another religion or someone who's an atheist	和婚姻的意义对于另一个宗教或者一个无神论者
387	could be completely different.	可能会完全不同
388	And the government doesn't have a right to impose	政府没有权力强制
389	the theological reasoning for Catholicism on	天主教的神学推理
390	everyone in the state,	州内所有人
391	which is what my problem is with not allowing same-sex marriage, because	这就是我的问题不允许同性婚姻,因为
392	I mean, your beliefs are your beliefs, and that's fine,	我的意思是,你的信仰是你的信仰, 这很好,
393	but civil union is not marriage within the Catholic church.	但民事结合不是天主教会内部的婚姻。
394	And the state has a right to recognize a civil union between	国家有权承认
395	whoever it wants,	无论它想要谁
396	but does not have a right to impose the beliefs of a certain minority or	但无权强迫某一少数人或
397	majority or whoever it is	多数或无论是谁
398	based on a religion	基于宗教
399	within our state. Alright, Victoria, good. A question.	在我们国家好吧,维多利亚,很好。问曰.
400	Do you think the state should recognize same-sex marriage or just	你觉得国家应该承认同性婚姻还是
401	same-sex civil unions as something short of marriage?	同性民事结合是婚姻的缺点?
402	Well,	那个
403	I think that the state doesn't have a right to recognize it as marriage within	我认为国家没有权利承认它是婚姻
404	a church, because that is not their place,	一个教堂,因为那里不是他们的地方,
405	but whereas civil union, I see civil union as essentially the same thing,	但尽管民事结合, 我认为民事结合基本上是一样的,
406	except not under a religion, and the state has a right to recognize	国家有权承认
407	a civil union. Alright, so Victoria's argument is that the state should not try to	民事结合。好吧,所以维多利亚的论点是州不应该试图
408	decide the question of what the telos of marriage is. That's only something that	决定什么是婚约的问题。那只是一些东西
409	religious communities	宗教社团
410	can decide.	可以决定。
411	Who else?	还有谁?
412	My point is, I don't see why we feel like the state should recognize marriages at all.	我想说的是,我不明白为什么我们觉得国家应该承认婚姻
413	So I'm like one of these seven people who voted,	所以我就像这七个人之一谁投票,
414	the state should not recognize any marriages, because	国家不应承认任何婚姻,因为:
415	I believe it is a union between	我相信这是一个结合
416	a male and a female, or	男女,或
417	two males or two females,	两名男性或两名女性,
418	but there is no reason to ask the state to give permission to me to	但没有理由要求国家允许我
419	unite myself, and some might say that	团结我,有些人可能会说
420	if the state recognizes these marriages,	如果国家承认这些婚姻,
421	it will help children, it will	它会帮助儿童,它会
422	have a binding effect, but in reality I don't think it	但实际上我不觉得
423	actually has a binding effect. Tell us your name.	实际具有约束作用。告诉我们你的名字。
424	Victorian Cezanne's comments	维多利亚·塞桑的评论
425	differ from earlier parts of the conversation. They say	与对话的早期部分不同。他们说
426	the state shouldn't be in the business	国家不该插手
427	of honoring or recognizing or affirming	承认或确认
428	any particular telos or purpose of marriage or of human sexuality,	婚姻或人类性行为的任何特定传言或目的,
429	and Cezanne is among those who says therefore maybe the state should get out of the business	Cezanne是其中之一说,也许国家应该退出生意
430	of recognizing marriage at all. Here's the question.	完全承认婚姻。问曰.
431	Unless you adopt Cezanne's position, no state recognition of any kind of marriage,	除非你采取Cezanne的立场, 没有州承认任何类型的婚姻,
432	is it possible	有没有可能
433	to choose between,	选择其中,
434	to decide the question of same-sex marriage	决定同性婚姻的问题
435	without taking a stand on the moral and religious controversy over	在道德和宗教的争论上,
436	the proper telos of marriage?	婚姻的传承?
437	Thank you very much to all of you who have participated. We'll pick this up next time.	非常感谢所有与会人员。我们下次再拿
438	You did a great job.	你表现得很好
439	When we	当我们
440	first came together some thirteen weeks ago,	13个星期前第一次见面
441	I tried to warn you	我试着警告你
442	that once the familiar turns strange,	一旦熟悉的人变得奇怪,
443	once we begin to reflect on our circumstance,	一旦我们开始思考我们的情况
444	it's never quite the same again.	再也不会变了
445	I hope you have by now experienced at least a little of this unease	我希望你已经体验到至少一点点这种不安
446	because this is the tension	因为这就是紧张
447	that animates critical reflection	动画关键反射
448	and political improvement	政治改善
449	and maybe even the moral life as well.	甚至还有道德生活
450	We have two remaining questions to answer.	我们还有两个问题要回答。
451	First, is it necessary,	首先,是否有必要
452	is it unavoidable	这是不可避免的
453	to take up questions of the good life and thinking about justice?	接受美好生活的问题思考正义?
454	Yes.	对
455	And is it possible	有可能吗?
456	to reason about justice?	解释正义?
457	Yes, I think so.	是的,我想是这样。
458	Let me try to	让我试试
459	develop	开发
460	those answers to those two questions.	回答这两个问题
461	Now, as a way of	现在,作为一个方式
462	addressing those questions, we began last time	我们上次开始讨论这些问题
463	to discuss the question of same-sex marriage.	讨论同性婚姻的问题。
464	And we heard from those	我们听到那些
465	who argued against same-sex marriage	他们反对同性婚姻
466	on the grounds that the purpose or telos	以目的或电话为理由
467	of marriage	婚姻关系
468	is	这是
469	at least in part	至少有一部分
470	procreation,	生育,
471	the bearing and raising of children.	生育和抚养子女。
472	And then there were those	还有那些
473	who defended	辩护人
474	same-sex marriage	同性婚姻
475	and they contested	他们争先恐后,
476	that account of the	说明
477	purpose or telos of marriage	婚姻目的或婚约
478	arguing	争吵
479	we don't require	我们不需要
480	as a condition of heterosexual marriage	作为异性婚姻的条件
481	that couples	那对夫妇
482	be able	能够
483	or willing to procreate.	或愿意生育。
484	We allow infertile couples	我们允许不孕的夫妇
485	to marry, this is	结婚,这是
486	Hannah's point in the exchange with Mark.	汉娜在与马克的交流中的观点.
487	But then there was another position	但后来又有个位置
488	expressed at the end of our discussion by Victoria	维多利亚在讨论结束时
489	who argued	谁争论
490	we shouldn't try to decide this question.	我们不应该试图决定这个问题。
491	We shouldn't at least at the level of the state	至少我们不应该在州一级
492	at the level of law	在法律一级
493	try to come to any agreement	尝试达成任何协议
494	on those questions about the good	关于那些关于好人的问题
495	because we live in a pluralist society where people have different moral and religious convictions.	因为我们生活在一个多元社会,人们有不同的道德和宗教信仰。
496	And so we should try	所以我们应该试试
497	to make law	制定法律
498	and the framework of rights	和权利框架
499	neutral with respect to these competing moral and religious views.	对这些相互竞争的道德和宗教观点持中立态度。
500	Now it's interesting that others	现在有趣的是其他人
501	some others	还有一些
502	who favor the idea of neutrality	他们主张中和,
503	argued not in favor	不赞成
504	of restricting marriage	限制婚姻
505	to a man and a woman	对一男一女
506	nor in favor	也不赞成
507	of permitting same-sex marriage. They argued	允许同性婚姻。他们争吵
508	in the name of neutrality	以中立的名义
509	for a third possibility	第三种可能性
510	which is that government	就是那个政府
511	should get out of the business of recognizing any kind of marriage.	应该放弃承认任何一种婚姻的工作。
512	That was the third possibility.	这是第三种可能性。
513	Now, Andrea Mayrose	安德里亚·梅罗斯
514	had an interesting contribution to this debate. She had a rejoinder	对这次辩论作出了令人感兴趣的贡献。她有一个复辩状
515	to people who argue	以争论的人们发誓,
516	for neutrality. Where is Andrea?	为了中立。安德里亚在哪?
517	Andrea, would you be willing	安德里亚,你愿意吗?
518	share with us	和我们分享
519	the view, if we can get you a microphone,	风景,如果我们能给你一个麦克风,
520	share with us your view. Why do you think	与我们分享你的观点。你为什么认为
521	that it's a mistake	那是个错误
522	for the state to try to be neutral	国家试图保持中立
523	on moral and even religious questions like same-sex marriage?	关于道德甚至宗教问题比如同性婚姻?
524	I don't know that it is possible because people's lives	我不知道这是可能的因为人们的生活
525	are	已经
526	completely embedded in how they view the world and	完全植根于他们如何看待世界
527	maybe I just agree with Aristotle that the role of the government is helping people	也许我同意亚里士多德的观点政府的作用是帮助人民
528	live in a sort of	生活在某种意义上
529	having a collective understanding of what	集体理解什么
530	is wrong and what is right. Is it possible, and one could ask the same question of abortion	错和错有可能吗? 可以问同样的堕胎问题
531	that we've been asking	我们一直在问
532	of same-sex marriage,	同性婚姻,
533	do you think it's possible	你觉得这有可能吗?
534	to decide whether abortion should be	是否应当堕胎
535	permitted or prohibited	允许或禁止
536	without taking a stand or making a judgment	不采取立场或作出判断
537	about the moral permissibility of abortion?	关于堕胎的道德允许性?
538	No, I don't think it is and I think that's why it's such a controversy because people are	不,我不认为它是, 我认为这就是为什么这是一个如此争议因为人们是
539	so deeply committed to their fundamental beliefs about whether a fetus is a life or if it isn't.	如此坚定的信念他们关于胎儿是生命,还是生命不是。
540	If I believe that a fetus is a living being	如果我相信一个胎儿是生命
541	and has rights	和享有权利
542	and has fundamentally the rights to live, then it's very hard for me to say,	并且基本上有生存的权利, 那么它是非常困难的我说,
543	but I can put that aside and let you do what you want because that's like me saying,	但我可以把那个放在一边让你做你想做的事因为就像我说的
544	well despite my beliefs I'm going to let you commit what to me is murder.	好吧,尽管我的信仰... ...我要让你做... ...什么对我来说是谋杀。
545	The analogy in the same-sex marriage case is,	同性婚姻案中的类比是,
546	you said	你说
547	you're a defender of same-sex marriage,	你是同性婚姻的维护者
548	but you only came to that view	但你只是来到了那个观点
549	once you were persuaded	你曾经被说服过
550	on the underlying moral question.	道德问题。
551	Right, well I think particularly in the U.S. so many people's beliefs are driven by their religious beliefs	对,我想在美国尤其如此所以很多人的信仰是由他们的宗教信仰驱动的
552	and like Mark the other day, I'm Christian, I'm Catholic,	像马克前几天一样我是基督徒我是天主教徒
553	and I had to decide for myself like on a lot of thought, a lot of prayer, a lot of conversations with other people	我不得不决定自己喜欢很多思考, 很多祷告, 很多对话其他人
554	that I disagreed with the Catholic standpoint that homosexuality itself is in a sin.	我不同意天主教的观点同性恋本身是有罪的。
555	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}当我来到那种地方
556	conclusion in my personal relationship with God,	我和上帝的私人关系
557	like, I mean that sounds	喜欢,我的意思是,这听起来
558	hokey right, that's like, oh religious, but a lot of people are religious and that's where they draw their beliefs and their views from.	对,这就像,哦,宗教, 但很多人是宗教, 在那里他们吸引他们的信仰和观点。
559	That's when I could say, yeah, I'm down with the state saying	这时候我可以说,是的, 我下与州说
560	go same-sex marriage because I'm okay with that and I think that's morally okay.	做同性婚姻,因为我同意我认为这在道德上是好的。
561	Good, thank you.	很好谢谢
562	Now who would like to reply, if you can perhaps	现在,谁愿意回答,如果你可以
563	hang on there for a moment, who would like to reply	等一会,谁想回答
564	to Andrea's idea	安德里亚的想法
565	that in order to decide the question of same-sex marriage	为了决定同性婚姻问题
566	it's necessary to	这是必须的
567	sort out the question about the	解决关于
568	moral status of homosexuality and	同性恋的道德地位
569	figuring out the purpose, the telos, the proper end	找出目的, 提洛斯, 适当的结束
570	of marriage. Who disagrees	结婚谁不同意
571	with Andrea	与安德里亚
572	on that point?	这点?
573	Well, I think you absolutely can separate your moral opinion	好吧,我觉得你绝对可以分离你的道德观点
574	and what you think the law should be.	以及你认为法律应该是什么
575	For example,	举例来说,
576	I think abortion is	我认为堕胎是
577	unequivocally morally wrong,	道德上显然是错误的,
578	but I do not believe that illegalizing abortion makes it go away.	但我不认为非法堕胎会让它消失
579	I don't believe illegalizing abortion stops it	我不相信非法堕胎会阻止它
580	and therefore I am pro-choice	所以我赞成选择
581	and I do believe the woman should have the choice	我相信女人应该有选择
582	as it gives them more safety just as	让他们更加安全
583	maybe	也许
584	morally I don't want to get married to a man	道德上我不想嫁给男人
585	but I'm not going to try to	但我不会试图
586	impede someone else's freedom	妨碍别人的自由
587	to do what they wish to do	做他们想做的事
588	in terms of the law.	以诸法界.
589	Whether the law makes something legal or illegal is it's implicitly	法律是合法还是非法是隐含的
590	approving or disapproving something. So if you say	批准或不批准的东西。所以,如果你说
591	by making abortion	堕胎
592	legal, we're saying it's okay. As a society, collectively we're saying	法律,我们说没关系。作为一个社会,我们集体说
593	it's okay with us in our society	我们社会上也没关系
594	to abort a fetus.	将胎儿流产。
595	If we make it legal,	如果我们使它合法,
596	if we make it illegal, then we're saying collectively as a society	如果我们把它非法, 然后我们集体地说作为一个社会
597	it's not okay. And that's why society says it's not legal.	这不好。社会也因此说不合法.
598	My name is Daniel.	我叫丹尼尔
599	Daniel, what do you say?	丹尼尔,你觉得怎么样?
600	Are we saying collectively that it's okay?	我们一起说没关系吗?
601	We're saying that collectively we don't want women	我们说我们集体不要女人
602	who are going to have an abortion anyway to go to clinics in the side alleys and have	准备堕胎的人要去边巷的诊所
603	unsafe conditions.	不安全的条件。
604	All right, bring it to the same-sex marriage case.	好吧,把它带到同性婚姻案件。
605	Why don't you have to decide that which position you're in favor of	你为何不决定你赞成什么立场
606	same-sex marriage, Daniel, being legally permitted? I think it absolutely should be	丹尼尔,是法律允许的同性婚姻? 我觉得绝对应该
607	legally permitted	法律允许的
608	because it's not something telling me that I need to marry a man.	因为它没有告诉我我需要嫁给一个男人。
609	I don't see if two men are consenting adults and want to get married.	我看不出两个男人是否同意成年,想要结婚.
610	I don't see how I could even object to that. There's no harm. There's no harm done, either way,	我看不出我怎么会反对无碍无碍. 也没什么坏处
611	even if it is morally wrong according to me.	即使我认为这在道德上是错误的
612	Let me turn to the way	让我转过身去
613	the Massachusetts court, who made this landmark ruling in the same-sex	在马萨诸塞州法庭上,他以同性关系做出这一具有里程碑意义的裁决
614	marriage case,	婚姻案件,
615	grappled with	努力争取
616	the very issue that Andrea and Dan have been	安德里亚和丹的问题
617	discussing here. Thanks to both of you very much.	讨论在这里。非常感谢你们俩
618	What did the court say? This was in the Goodridge case, which	法庭怎么说? 这是在Goodridge的案子里
619	required the state of Massachusetts	需要马萨诸塞州
620	to extend marriage to	将婚姻延伸至
621	same-sex couples.	同性伴侣。
622	The court	法院
623	started out, well, the court was conflicted,	一开始,嗯,法院是冲突的,
624	if you read that opinion carefully,	如果你仔细读了这个意见
625	the court was conflicted	宫廷冲突
626	as between	之间
627	the two positions	两个职位
628	we've just been	我们刚刚
629	defended by Andrea and by Dan.	由安德里亚和丹辩护
630	The court begins, and this is	朝廷开始,这是
631	Chief Justice Margaret Marshall's opinion,	首席法官玛格丽特·马歇尔的意见,
632	it begins	开始
633	with an attempt	试图
634	at liberal neutrality.	在自由中立。
635	Many people hold deep-seated religious moral and ethical convictions that	许多人持有根深蒂固的宗教道德和伦理信念,
636	marriage should be limited to the union of one man and one woman,	婚姻应限于一男一女的结合;
637	and that homosexual conduct is immoral.	同性恋的行为是不道德的
638	Many hold equally strong religious moral and ethical convictions that same-sex	许多人同样坚信同性
639	couples are entitled to be married, that homosexual person should be treated no	夫妇有权结婚,同性恋者应得到待遇
640	differently than their heterosexual neighbors.	跟他们的异性恋邻居不一样
641	This is the court.	此是宫廷.
642	Neither view answers the question	两种观点都没有回答问题
643	before us.	在我们面前。
644	What is at stake is, quote, respect for individual autonomy	关键在于尊重个人自主
645	and equality	和平等
646	under law.	根据法律规定。
647	At stake is	事关重大
648	an individual freely choosing the person with whom to share an exclusive	个人自由选择与谁分享排他性
649	commitment. In other words, an issue is not	承诺。换句话说,问题不是
650	the moral worth of the choice,	选择的道德价值,
651	but the right of the individual to make it.	但个人有权做它。
652	So, this is the liberal neutral strand in the court opinion,	所以,这是自由中立线在法院的意见,
653	Bollentra strand, the one that emphasizes autonomy, choice, consent.	Bollentra线条,强调自主,选择,同意的线条.
654	But the court seemed to realize	但法庭似乎意识到
655	that the liberal case,	自由主义的情况,
656	the neutral case, for recognizing same-sex marriage	中立的理由,因为承认同性婚姻
657	doesn't succeed, doesn't get you all the way to that position, because if it were	没有成功,没有让你一路到那个位置, 因为如果它是
658	only a matter of respect for individual autonomy,	仅仅是尊重个人自主的问题,
659	if government were truly neutral	如果政府真正中立
660	on the moral worth	道德价值
661	of voluntary intimate relationships,	自愿的亲密关系,
662	then	接下来
663	it should adopt	它应该通过
664	a different policy,	不同的政策,
665	which is to remove	要删除的
666	government and the state altogether	政府和整个国家
667	from	从
668	according	根据
669	recognition	承认
670	to certain associations, certain kinds of unions,	对某些协会、某些类型的工会,
671	rather than others.	而不是别人。
672	If government really must be neutral,	如果政府真的要中立的话
673	then	接下来
674	the consistent position	立场一致
675	is what we here have been describing as	这就是我们在这里描述的
676	the third position,	第三个职位,
677	the one defended in the article by Michael Kinsley,	迈克尔·金斯利在文章中辩护的那个
678	who argues	谁争辩
679	for the abolition of marriage at least as a state function.	废除婚姻至少是一项国家职能。
680	Perhaps a better term for this is the disestablishment of religion.	或许一个更好的术语就是宗教的瓦解。
681	This is Kinsley's proposal.	这是金斯利的提议。
682	He points out	他说
683	that the reason	原因
684	for the opposition	反对派代表
685	to same-sex marriage	同性婚姻
686	is that it would go beyond	它会超越
687	neutral toleration	中性容忍
688	and give same-sex marriage a government stamp of approval.	并给予同性婚姻政府批准印章。
689	That's at the heart of the dispute.	这是争议的核心。
690	In Aristotle's terms,	按亚里士多德的说法
691	at issue here is the proper distribution of offices and honors, a matter of social	这里的问题是职务和荣誉的适当分配,这是一个社会问题。
692	recognition.	承认。
693	Same-sex marriage	同性婚姻
694	can't be justified on the basis of liberal neutrality or nondiscrimination or	不能以自由中立、不歧视或
695	autonomy rights alone,	仅自主权利,
696	because the question at stake in the public debate	因为这个问题在公开辩论中至关重要
697	is whether same-sex unions have moral worth, whether they're worthy of honor and	是同性结合是否具有道德价值, 是否值得荣誉和
698	recognition,	承认,
699	and whether they fit the purpose of the social institution	以及它们是否符合社会制度的宗旨;
700	of marriage.	结婚
701	So,	这么说
702	Kinsley says,	金斯利说,
703	you want to be neutral?	你想保持中立吗?
704	Then let churches and other religious institutions offer marriage ceremonies.	然后让教会和其他宗教机构举行结婚仪式。
705	Let department stores and casinos get into the act if they want to.	百货公司和赌场如果愿意,就让它们参与行动。
706	This is Kinsley.	这是金斯利。
707	Let couples celebrate their union in any way they choose	让夫妇以他们选择的任何方式庆祝他们的结合
708	and consider themselves married	认为自己结婚了
709	whenever they want.	随时随地
710	And if three people want to get married,	如果三个人想结婚
711	or if one person wants to marry	如果一个人想结婚
712	himself or herself,	他或她,
713	and someone else wants to conduct a ceremony for them and declare them married,	还有别人想为他们举行仪式宣布他们结婚了
714	let them. If you and your government are implicated,	让他们。如果你和你的政府被牵连
715	what do you care? This is Kinsley.	你关心什么? 这是金斯利。
716	But, this is not	但是,这不是
717	the position	职位
718	that the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts wanted.	马萨诸塞州最高法院想要的
719	They didn't call for the abolition	他们没有要求废除
720	or for the disestablishment of marriage.	或者因为婚姻破裂
721	The court did not question	法院没有质疑
722	the government's role in conferring social recognition on some intimate associations	政府在给予一些亲密协会社会承认方面的作用
723	rather than others.	而不是别人。
724	To the contrary,	相反,
725	the court waxes eloquent	宫廷充满雄辩
726	about marriage	关于婚姻
727	as quote, one of our community's most rewarding and cherished institutions.	作为引文,我们社区最有价值和最珍视的机构之一。
728	And then it goes on to expand the definition of marriage to include partners	然后,它进一步扩大了婚姻的定义包括伴侣
729	of the same sex.	同一性别。
730	And in doing so,	这样一来,
731	it acknowledges	它承认
732	that marriage is more	婚姻更是这样
733	than a matter	一个问题
734	of tolerating choices that individuals make.	个人作出的容忍选择。
735	It's also a matter	这也是个问题
736	of social recognition	社会承认
737	and honor.	和荣誉。
738	As Justice Marshall wrote, in a real sense, there are three partners to every civil marriage,	正如马歇尔法官所写, 真正意义上, 每个公证婚姻有三个伴侣,
739	two willing spouses,	两人是自愿的,
740	and an approving state.	和批准状态。
741	Marriage is at once a deeply personal commitment, but also a highly public celebration	婚姻既是个人的深厚承诺,也是公众的盛庆
742	of the ideals of mutuality, companionship, intimacy, fidelity, and family.	彼此相爱、亲密、忠诚和家庭的理想。
743	This is the court.	此是宫廷.
744	Now this is reaching well beyond liberal neutrality.	现在,这远远超出了自由中立。
745	This is celebrating and affirming	这是庆祝和肯定
746	marriage as an honorific,	作为荣誉的婚姻,
747	as a form of	作为一种形式的
748	public recognition.	公开承认。
749	And therefore the court found that it couldn't avoid the debate	因此法庭认为无法避免辩论
750	about the telos	有关电视剧
751	of marriage.	结婚
752	Justice Marshall's opinion considers	马歇尔法官的意见认为
753	and rejects the notion	并拒绝这个想法,
754	that the primary purpose of marriage is procreation.	结婚的主要目的是生育。
755	She points out that there's no requirement that applicants	她指出,没有要求申请人
756	for marriage license who are heterosexuals attest to their ability or their intention	异性恋者证明自己的能力或意图;
757	to conceive children.	怀着孩子
758	Fertility is not a condition of marriage.	生育不是婚姻的条件。
759	People who cannot stir from their deathbed	无法从死亡中振动的人
760	may marry.	可以结婚。
761	So she advances all kinds of arguments	所以她提出各种论点
762	including the lines that we began last time	包括上次开始的台词
763	about what the proper and the essential nature of the telos of marriage is. And she concludes	婚姻的本质和本质是什么她总结了
764	not procreation,	不生育,
765	but the exclusive and permanent commitment of the partners to one another	但伙伴们对彼此的专有和永久承诺
766	is the essential	关键是
767	point	点
768	and purpose	目标
769	of marriage.	结婚
770	Now nothing I've said	我什么都没说
771	about	关于
772	this	这个
773	court opinion	法院意见
774	is an argument for or against same-sex marriage, but it is an argument against the claim	这是支持或反对同性婚姻的论点,但它是反对主张的理由。
775	that you can favor or oppose same-sex marriage	你可以支持或反对同性婚姻
776	while remaining neutral	保持中立时
777	on the underlying	说明
778	moral	道义
779	and religious questions.	和宗教问题。
780	So all of this is to suggest	所以所有这一切都是暗示
781	that at least in some	至少在某些
782	of the hotly contested	热竞者
783	about justice and rights that we have in our society,	关于我们社会中的正义和权利,
784	the attempt to be neutral,	企图中立,
785	the attempt to say	试图说
786	it's just a matter	只是个问题
787	of consent and choice and autonomy,	同意、选择和自主,
788	we take no stand, that doesn't succeed.	我们不采取立场,那不会成功。
789	Even the court,	连法庭,
790	which wants to be neutral on these moral and religious disputes, finds that it can't.	想要在这些道德和宗教纠纷上保持中立, 发现它不能。
791	What then about our second question?	那第二个问题呢?
792	If reasoning about the good	如果关于好的推理
793	is unavoidable	这是不可避免的
794	in debates about justice and rights,	在关于司法和权利的辩论中,
795	is it possible?	有可能吗?
796	If reasoning about the good	如果关于好的推理
797	means	表示
798	that you must have a single principle or rule or maxim	您必须有一个单一的原则或规则或准则
799	or criterion	或标准
800	for the good life	为了美好生活
801	that you simply plug in every time you have a disagreement	你只要每次有分歧
802	about morality, then the answer is no.	关于道德,那么答案是否定的。
803	But having a single	但有一个单身
804	principle or rule	原则或规则
805	is not the only way,	不是唯一的办法,
806	not the best way	不是最好的办法
807	of	页:1
808	reasoning	推理
809	either about the good life	或关于美好生活
810	or about justice.	或关于正义。
811	Think back,	回想起来
812	think back	回想起来
813	to the arguments that we've been having here	我们一直在这里争论
814	about justice	关于司法
815	and about rights	权利
816	and sometimes about the good life.	有时候,关于美好生活。
817	How have those arguments proceeded?	这些论点如何进行?
818	They've proceeded	他们开始了
819	very much in the way	非常麻烦
820	that Aristotle suggests	亚里士多德建议
821	moving back and forth	前后移动
822	between our judgments about particulars, particular cases, events,	我们对于具体案件事件
823	stories, questions,	故事,问题,
824	back and forth between our judgments about particular cases	在我们对特定案件的判决之间
825	and more general principles that make sense of our reasons for the positions we take	更一般性的原则说明我们的立场的理由
826	on the particular cases.	关于特定案件。
827	This	这个
828	dialectical way	辩证方法
829	of doing moral reasoning	进行道德推理
830	goes back to the ancients	回到古人身边
831	to Plato and Aristotle	到柏拉图和亚里士多德
832	but it doesn't stop with them	但它不停止与他们
833	because there is a version	因为有一个版本
834	of Socratic or dialectical	索克拉底语或辩证语
835	moral reasoning	道德推理
836	that is	这是
837	with great clarity and force	以极大的清晰度和力量
838	约翰·罗尔斯(John Rawls)
839	in giving an account	在提供账户时
840	of his method	他的方法
841	of justifying	说明理由
842	a theory of justice.	一个正义的理论。
843	You remember it's not only the veil of ignorance and the principles	你记得这不仅仅是无知的面纱和原则
844	Rawls主张的
845	It's also a method of moral reasoning,	这也是一种道德推理的方法,
846	reasoning about justice that he calls	他所说的正义的推理
847	reflective equilibrium.	反应平衡
848	What is the method of reflective equilibrium?	什么是反映平衡的方法?
849	It's moving back and forth	前后移动
850	between our	我们之间
851	considered judgments about particular cases	考虑对特定案件的判决
852	and the general principles	和一般原则
853	we would articulate	我们来阐述
854	to make sense of those judgments	使这些判决有意义
855	and not just stopping there	而不只是停留在那里,
856	because we might be wrong in our initial intuitions.	因为我们最初的直觉可能错了
857	Not stopping there	不要停下来
858	but then sometimes revising our particular judgments	但有时会修改我们的具体判决
859	in the light of the principles	根据这些原则,
860	once we work them out	一旦我们解决了他们
861	so sometimes we revise the principles	所以有时候我们修改原则
862	sometimes we revise our judgments and intuitions in the particular cases	有时我们修正我们的判断和直觉在特定案件中
863	the general point is this	总的一点是
864	and here I quote Rawls	我在这里引用罗尔斯的话
865	a conception of justice can't be deduced	正义的概念不能推论
866	from self-evident premises	从不言而喻的前提出发
867	its justification	理由说明
868	is a matter of the mutual support of many considerations	是一个得到许多考虑的相互支持的问题。
869	of everything fitting together	与一切相适应
870	into one coherent	变成一个整体
871	and later in a theory of justice he writes moral philosophy is socratic	在后来的正义理论中他写道德哲学是专制的
872	we may want to change our present considered judgments	我们也许想改变我们目前深思熟虑的判决
873	once their regulative	一次他们的规制
874	principles	原则
875	are brought to light.	被揭发。
876	Well, if Rawls accepts that idea	如果罗尔斯接受这个想法
877	and advances that notion of reflective equilibrium the question	并推进反映平衡的概念
878	we're left with is	我们留下的是
879	he applies that	他应用
880	to questions of justice	司法问题
881	not to questions	不问问题
882	of morality	道德观
883	and the good life	和幸福的生活,
884	and that's why	这就是为什么
885	he remains committed to the priority of the right over the good	他仍然致力于将权利置于好人之上
886	he thinks the method of reflective equilibrium	他认为反射平衡的方法
887	can generate shared judgments	能够生成共同判断
888	about justice and the right	关于正义和权利
889	but he doesn't think	但他不认为
890	they can generate shared judgments	它们可以产生共同的判决
891	about the good life	关于美好生活
892	about what he calls comprehensive	关于他所说的全面,
893	moral	道义
894	and religious questions	宗教问题
895	the reason he thinks that	他这样想的原因
896	is that he says that	他说
897	in modern societies	在现代社会中
898	there is a fact of reasonable pluralism about the good	事实上,在福利方面,存在着合理的多元化。
899	even conscientious people who reason well	即使是有良心的人也有理由
900	will find that they disagree	将发现他们不同意
901	about questions	关于问题
902	of the good life	过着美好的生活
903	about morality and religion	关于道德和宗教
904	Rawls is likely	罗尔斯很可能会
905	right about that	对
906	he's not talking about the fact of disagreement	他不是在说分歧的事实
907	in pluralist societies	在多元化社会中
908	he's also suggesting	他还建议
909	that there may be persisting	可能存在持续性
910	disagreements	不同意见
911	about the good life	关于美好生活
912	and about moral and religious questions	道德和宗教问题
913	but if that's true	但是如果这是真的
914	then	接下来
915	is he warranted in his further claim	在进一步申诉中他是否有理由
916	that the same can't be said about justice	正义是不能说的
917	isn't it also true	这不也是事实吗
918	not only that we as a matter of fact disagree	不仅是事实上我们不同意
919	about justice in pluralist societies	关于多元社会中的正义
920	but that at least some of those disagreements are reasonable disagreements	但至少其中一些分歧是合理分歧
921	in the same way	以同样的方式
922	some people favor	有人喜欢
923	a libertarian theory of justice	自由主义的正义理论
924	others a more egalitarian theory of justice and they argue	其他人更平等的正义理论他们争论
925	and there is pluralism in our society as between free market laissez faire libertarian	在自由市场和自由自由主义者之间社会上存在着多元化
926	theories of justice	司法理论
927	and more egalitarian ones	和更加平等的人,
928	is there any difference in principle	原则上有没有区别
929	between the kind of moral reasoning	在道德推理之间
930	and the kind of disagreements that arise when we debate about justice	以及我们辩论正义时产生的分歧
931	and the meaning of free speech	言论自由的意义
932	and the nature of religious liberty	宗教自由的性质
933	look at the debates we have	看看我们的辩论
934	over	结束
935	disagreements to the supreme court	与最高法院的分歧
936	these are all disagreements about justice and rights	这些都是关于正义和权利的分歧
937	is there any difference between	有没有区别
938	the fact of reasonable pluralism	合理多元化的事实
939	in the case	情况
940	of justice and rights	司法与权利
941	and in the case	在案件发生时
942	of morality	道德观
943	and religion in principle	宗教原则
944	i don't think that there is	我不认为有
945	in both cases	在这两种情况下
946	what we do when we disagree	我们意见不一时做什么
947	is	这是
948	we engage with our interlocutor	我们与对话者接触
949	as we've been doing here for an entire semester	就像我们在这里做了整整一个学期
950	we consider the arguments	我们考虑的论点
951	that are provoked by particular cases	被特定案件激怒的人
952	we try to develop the reasons that lead us to go one way rather than another	我们试图找出导致我们走向一条道路而不是另一条道路的原因
953	and then we listen to the reasons of other people	然后我们听别人的理由
954	and sometimes we're persuaded	有时候我们被说服
955	to revise our view	来修改我们的观点
956	other times we're challenged at least to shore up and strengthen our view	换句话说我们至少要站出来加强我们的视野
957	but this is how moral	但这是道德
958	disagreement proceeds	异议收益
959	with justice	正义
960	and so it seems to me also	所以在我看来
961	with questions	有问题
962	of the good life	过着美好的生活
963	now there remains a further worry	现在还有人担心
964	and it's a liberal worry	这是自由主义的担心
965	what about	怎么样
966	if we're going to think of our disagreements about morality and religion	如果我们要考虑关于道德和宗教的分歧
967	as bound up with our disagreements about justice	就像我们对于正义的分歧
968	how are we ever going to find our way to a society	我们怎样才能找到通往社会的道路
969	that accords respect	给予尊重
970	to	改为:
971	fellow citizens with whom we disagree	我们不同意的同胞们
972	it depends i think	这要看我想
973	on which conception	在哪个概念上
974	of respect	尊重的权利
975	one accepts	一个接受
976	on the liberal conception	自由概念
977	to respect our fellow citizens moral and religious convictions	尊重我们的同胞道德和宗教信仰
978	is so to speak	这么说吧
979	to ignore them	无视他们
980	for political purposes	用于政治目的
981	to rise above or abstract from or to set aside	超越或抽象脱离或搁置
982	those moral and religious convictions	这些道德和宗教信仰
983	to leave them undisturbed	让他们不受干扰
984	to carry on our political debate without reference to them	继续我们的政治辩论而不提及他们
985	but that isn't the only way	但这不是唯一的办法
986	or perhaps even the most	也许最
987	plausible way	说得有道理
988	of understanding the mutual respect	理解相互尊重
989	on which democratic life	民主生活
990	depends	取决于
991	there's a different conception of respect	有不同的尊重观念
992	according to which we respect our fellow citizens	我们尊重同胞
993	moral and religious convictions	道德和宗教信仰
994	not by ignoring but by engaging them	不是无视而是让他们参与
995	by attending to them	照顾他们
996	sometimes by challenging and contesting them	有时通过质疑和质疑
997	sometimes	有时候
998	by listening	通过监听
999	and learning from them	和向他们学习
1000	now there's no guarantee	现在没有保证
1001	that a politics of moral and religious	一种道德和宗教政治
1002	attention and engagement	关注和参与
1003	will lead in any given case to agreement	在任何特定情况下,都会达成协议
1004	there's no guarantee it will lead even to appreciation	连感激都无法保证
1005	for the moral and religious convictions of others it's always possible after all	对于他人的道德信仰和宗教信仰,毕竟永远是可能的
1006	that learning more about a religious or a moral doctrine	更了解一种宗教或道德理论
1007	will lead us to like it	会让我们喜欢
1008	less	减
1009	but the respect of deliberation	但尊重审议
1010	and engagement	参与
1011	seems to me a more adequate more suitable ideal for a pluralist society	对我来说,对于多元社会来说, 更合适的理想
1012	and to the extent	范围
1013	that our moral and religious disagreements reflect	我们的道德和宗教分歧反映了
1014	some ultimate plurality of human goods	人品的某些最终多元性
1015	a politics of moral engagement	道德参与政治
1016	will better enable us	更能让我们
1017	so it seems to me to appreciate	所以在我看来很欣赏
1018	the distinctive goods	特殊货物
1019	our different lives express	我们不同的生活表达
1020	when we	当我们
1021	first came together some thirteen weeks ago	13周前第一次见面
1022	i spoke of the exhilaration of political philosophy	我说的是政治哲学的赞叹
1023	and also of its dangers	及其危险
1024	about how philosophy works	关于哲学如何运作
1025	and has always worked	并一直工作着
1026	by estranging us	因为我们被包围
1027	from the familiar	从熟悉的
1028	by unsettling	通过不安
1029	our settled assumptions	我们的既定假设
1030	i tried to warn you	我试着警告你
1031	that once the familiar turns strange	一旦熟悉的人变得奇怪
1032	once we begin to reflect on our circumstance	一旦我们开始思考我们的情况
1033	it's never quite the same again	再也不会这样了
1034	i hope you have by now experienced at least a little of this unease	我希望你已经体验了至少一点点这种不安
1035	because this is the tension	因为这就是紧张
1036	that animates critical reflection	动画关键反射
1037	and political improvement	政治改善
1038	and maybe even the moral life as well	甚至还有道德生活
1039	and so our argument comes to an end in a sense but in another sense goes on	我们的争论从某种意义上说结束但从另一种意义上说
1040	why	为什么
1041	we asked at the outset	我们一开始问
1042	why do these arguments keep going	为什么要继续这些争论
1043	even if they raise questions	即使他们提出问题,
1044	that are impossible ever finally to resolve	永远无法解决
1045	the reason	原因
1046	is that we live some answer	是我们活在一个答案
1047	to these questions	这些问题
1048	all the time	总是
1049	in our public life	在我们的公共生活中
1050	and in our personal lives	以及我们个人生活中
1051	philosophy is inescapable	哲学是不可避免的
1052	even	连
1053	if it sometimes seems	如果有时看起来
1054	impossible	无法
1055	we began with the thought of Kant	我们从康德的思想开始
1056	that skepticism is a resting place for human reason	怀疑是人类的宿命
1057	where it can reflect upon its dogmatic wanderings	在那里它可以反射它的教条流浪
1058	but it is no dwelling place for permanent settlement	但它不是永久住所
1059	to allow ourselves simply to acquiesce in skepticism or in complacence	仅仅允许自己默许怀疑主义或合谋
1060	Kant wrote	康德写道:
1061	can never suffice	永远不够
1062	to overcome the restlessness of reason	克服理性的不安
1063	the aim of this course	课程的目的
1064	has been to awaken	已经醒来
1065	the restlessness of reason	不安的理性
1066	and to see where it might lead	并看看它可能通往何处
1067	and if we have done at least that	如果我们至少已经这样做了
1068	and if the restlessness	假若他们不安,
1069	continues to afflict you	继续折磨你
1070	in the days and years to come	未来的日子和岁月
1071	then we together	然后我们在一起
1072	have achieved	已经实现
1073	no small thing	没什么小事
1074	thank you	谢谢
1075	don't miss the chance to interact online with other viewers of Justice	不要错过与司法界其他观众互动的机会
1076	join the conversation	加入对话
1077	take a pop quiz	参加一个流行测验
1078	watch lectures you've missed and learn a lot more	看你错过的讲座学到更多
1079	visit justiceharvard.org	访问司法厅.org
1080	it's the right thing to do	这是正确的事情
1081	funding for this program is provided by	方案经费由下列机构提供:
1082	additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

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