【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价

共 12 集

剧集目录

集	标题	时长
P1	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:56
P3	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	20:50
P4	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:08
P5	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:59
P6	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:07
P7	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:01
P8	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:10
P9	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:04
P10	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	55:14
P11	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:46
P12	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:52
P13	【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价	54:49

P1 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p01 1. 1.谋杀的道德侧面 (P1)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p01 1. 1.谋杀的道德侧面 (P1)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 54:56

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
0:07	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
0:33	This is a course about justice and we begin with a story.	这是一个关于正义的课程我们从一个故事开始。
0:37	Suppose you're the driver of a trolley car	假设你是一辆推车的司机
0:40	and your trolley car is hurtling down the track at 60 miles an hour	你的推车以60英里的时速在轨
0:44	and at the end of the track you notice five workers working on the track.	在赛道的尽头,你注意到有五个工人在赛道上工作。
0:49	You try to stop, but you can't.	你试图停止,但你不能。
0:52	Your brakes don't work.	你的刹车不起作用。
0:54	You feel desperate because you know that if you crash into these five workers	你感到绝望因为你知道如果你撞上这五个工人
0:59	they will all die.	他们都会死

展开字幕全文（844 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
2	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
3	This is a course about justice and we begin with a story.	这是一个关于正义的课程我们从一个故事开始。
4	Suppose you're the driver of a trolley car	假设你是一辆推车的司机
5	and your trolley car is hurtling down the track at 60 miles an hour	你的推车以60英里的时速在轨
6	and at the end of the track you notice five workers working on the track.	在赛道的尽头,你注意到有五个工人在赛道上工作。
7	You try to stop, but you can't.	你试图停止,但你不能。
8	Your brakes don't work.	你的刹车不起作用。
9	You feel desperate because you know that if you crash into these five workers	你感到绝望因为你知道如果你撞上这五个工人
10	they will all die.	他们都会死
11	Let's assume you know that for sure.	让我们假设你肯定知道这一点。
12	And so you feel helpless until you notice that there is, off to the right, a side track.	因此,你感到无助直到你注意到, 有一个右侧的轨道。
13	And at the end of that track there's one worker working on the track.	在赛道的尽头有一个工人在赛道上工作
14	Your steering wheel works.	你的方向盘工作。
15	So you can turn the trolley car, if you want to,	所以,你可以转推车,如果你想,
16	onto the side track, killing the one, but sparing the five.	在侧道上,杀死一个, 但省下5。
17	Here's our first question.	这是第一个问题。
18	What's the right thing to do?	何等为善.
19	What would you do?	你会怎么做?
20	Let's take a poll.	我们来投票吧
21	How many would turn the trolley car onto the side track?	有多少人会把推车开到侧轨?
22	Raise your hands.	举手曰.
23	How many wouldn't?	有多少不会?
24	How many would go straight ahead?	有多少人会直接前进?
25	Keep your hands up, those of you who would go straight ahead.	举起手来你们中那些会直走的人
26	A handful of people would.	少数人会的
27	The vast majority would turn.	绝大多数人会变成这样。
28	Let's hear first.	先说.
29	Now we need to begin to investigate the reasons why you think	现在我们需要开始调查你为什么认为
30	it's the right thing to do.	这是正确的事情。
31	Let's begin with those in the majority	我们从多数人开始
32	who would turn to go onto the side track.	谁会转身去侧轨。
33	Why would you do it?	你为什么要这么做?
34	What would be your reason?	你有什么理由吗?
35	Who's willing to volunteer a reason?	谁愿意自愿一个理由?
36	Go ahead, stand up.	来吧,站起来。
37	Because it can't be right to kill five people when you can only kill one person instead.	因为杀五个人是不对的当你只能杀一个人的时候
38	It wouldn't be right to kill five if you could kill one person instead.	如果你能杀了一个人杀了五个人是不对的
39	That's a good reason.	这是很好的理由。
40	Who else?	还有谁?
41	Does everybody agree with that reason?	大家都同意这个理由吗?
42	Go ahead.	来吧。
43	Well, I think it's the same reason on 9-11.	我想9 -11也是这个原因
44	We regard the people who flew the plane	我们尊重那些驾驶飞机的人
45	into the Pennsylvania field as heroes because they chose to kill the people in the plane	作为英雄进入宾夕法尼亚州因为他们选择杀死飞机上的人
46	and not kill more people in big buildings.	而不是在大建筑物里杀更多人
47	So the principle there was the same on 9-11 to tragic circumstance,	所以在9 -11的悲剧情况上原则是一样的
48	but better to kill one so that five can live.	但最好杀了一个人好让五个人活着
49	Is that the reason most of you had those of you who would turn?	这就是你们中多数人愿意转身的原因吗?
50	Yes.	对
51	Let's hear now from those in the minority, those who wouldn't turn.	现在让我们听听少数派的人, 那些不肯转身的人。
52	Yes.	对
53	Well, I think that's the same type of mentality that justifies genocide and totalitarianism.	我想那也是种族屠杀和极权主义的理由
54	In order to save one type of race, you wipe out the other.	为了拯救一种种族,你消灭另一种种族.
55	So what would you do in this case?	这件案子你会怎么做?
56	You would, to avoid the horrors of genocide,	为了避免种族灭绝的恐怖
57	you would crash into the five and kill them?	你会撞到五个人并杀死他们?
58	Presumably, yes.	估计是的
59	You would?	你会吗?
60	Yeah.	对
61	Okay, who else?	好吧,还有谁?
62	It's a brave answer.	谓勇猛答言.
63	Thank you.	谢谢
64	Let's consider another trolley car case	我们再考虑另一件赛车案
65	and see whether those of you in the majority want to adhere to the principle	看看你们大多数人是否愿意遵守原则
66	better that one should die so that five should live.	最好让一个人死好让五个人活着
67	This time you're not the driver of the trolley car, you're an onlooker.	这次你不是特快车的司机你是旁观者
68	You're standing on a bridge overlooking a trolley car track,	你站在一座桥上俯瞰着一辆拖车轨道
69	and down the track comes a trolley car.	跑道上还有一辆推车
70	At the end of the track are five workers.	赛道尽头有5名工人.
71	The brakes don't work.	刹那无功用.
72	The trolley car is about to careen into the five and kill them.	推车即将关照到五人之中并杀死他们.
73	And now you're not the driver.	现在你不是司机了
74	You really feel helpless until you notice, standing next to you, leaning over,	你真的觉得无助,直到你注意到, 站在你旁边,倾斜,
75	the bridge is a very fat man.	桥是一个非常胖的人。
76	And you could give him a shove.	你可以给他一个推力。
77	He would fall over the bridge, under the track, right in the way of the trolley car.	他会掉到桥上,在赛道下, 在车道上。
78	He would die, but he would spare the five.	他会死,但他会饶了五人
79	Now, how many would push the fat man over the bridge?	有多少人会把胖子推到桥上?
80	Raise your hand.	举手曰.
81	How many wouldn't?	有多少不会?
82	Most people wouldn't.	大多数人不会。
83	Here's the obvious question.	这里有一个明显的问题。
84	What became of the principle,	原则是什么?
85	better to save five lives even if it means sacrificing one,	最好救五个人即使牺牲一个
86	what became of the principle that almost everyone endorsed in the first case?	在第一个案例中,几乎所有人都赞同的原则是什么?
87	I need to hear from someone who was in the majority in both cases.	我需要听到一个人谁在多数在这两种情况。
88	How do you explain the difference between the two?	如何解释二者之别.
89	Yes.	对
90	The second one, I guess, involves an active choice of pushing the person down,	第二种,我想, 涉及积极的选择推一个人下来,
91	which I guess that person himself would otherwise not have been involved in the situation at all.	我猜他本人本来根本不会参与这件事
92	And so to choose on his behalf, I guess,	所以我想代表他选择
93	to involve him in something that he otherwise would have escaped	将他卷入他本会逃脱的东西
94	is, I guess, more than what you have in the first case,	我想,比你第一件案子的要多
95	where the three parties, the driver and the two sets of workers,	在那里,三方,驾驶员和两组工人,
96	are already, I guess, in the situation.	已经是,我猜,在这种情况下。
97	But the guy working, the one on the track, off to the side,	但是那个在跑道上工作的人直接走到一边
98	he didn't choose to sacrifice his life any more than the fat man did, did he?	他没有比胖子更选择牺牲自己的生命是吗?
99	That's true, but he was on the tracks.	没错但他在铁轨上
100	This guy was on the bridge.	这家伙在桥上
101	Go ahead.	来吧。
102	You can come back if you want.	你可以回来,如果你想要的。
103	All right.	好吧,我们走。
104	It's a hard question.	难问.
105	You did well.	你表现得很好
106	You did very well.	你表现得很好
107	It's a hard question.	难问.
108	Who else can find a way of reconciling the reaction of the majority in these two cases?	还有谁能够找到一种方法来调和多数人在这两种情况下的反应?
109	Yes.	对
110	Well, I guess in the first case, where you have the one worker and the five,	好吧,我想在第一种情况下, 你有一个工人和五个,
111	it's choice between those two, and you have to make a certain choice,	是这两个人之间的选择, 你必须做出一定的选择,
112	and people are going to die because of the trolley car,	人们会因为推车而死
113	not necessarily because of your direct actions.	不一定是因为你的直接行动
114	The trolley car is a runaway thing, and you're making a split-second choice.	跑车是逃跑的东西,你正在做一个分两秒的选择.
115	Whereas pushing the fat man over is an actual act of murder on your part,	而把胖子推过来是真正的谋杀行为
116	you have control over that, whereas you may not have control over the trolley car.	你控制着它,而你可能无法控制推车。
117	So I think it's a slightly different situation.	所以我觉得情况有点不同
118	All right.	好吧,我们走。
119	Who has a reply?	谁有答复?
120	No, that's good.	不,这是很好的。
121	Who has a way, who wants to reply?	谁有办法,谁想回答?
122	Is that a way out of this?	这是一条出路吗?
123	I don't think that's a very good reason because you choose to,	我不认为这是一个很好的理由因为你选择,
124	it's either way you have to choose who dies because you either choose to turn and kill the person,	无论是哪种方式,你必须选择谁死因为你要么选择转身和杀死这个人,
125	which is an act of conscious thought to turn, or you choose to push the fat man over,	这是一种自觉的转变行为, 或者你选择把胖子推过来,
126	which is also an act of conscious action.	这也是一种自觉行动的行为。
127	So either way, you're making a choice.	所以不管怎么样,你都在做一个选择。
128	Do you want to reply?	你想回答吗?
129	Well, I'm not really sure if that's the case.	我不确定是不是这样
130	It just still seems kind of different, the act of actually pushing someone over onto the tracks and killing him.	这似乎还是有点不同, 实际上把某人推到铁轨上并杀死他。
131	You are actually killing him yourself.	你实际上是杀了他自己。
132	You're pushing him with your own hands.	你在亲手推他
133	你在推他,他不会有事的 You're pushing him.
134	And that's different than steering something that is going to cause death into another, you know,	这和把会导致死亡的东西引向另一个不同
135	it doesn't really sound right saying it now.	听起来不太对劲
136	No, it's good.	不,这是很好的。
137	It's good.	不错
138	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
139	Andrew.	安德鲁
140	Let me ask you this question, Andrew.	让我问你这个问题,安德鲁。
141	Yes.	对
142	Suppose standing on the bridge next to the fat man, I didn't have to push him.	假如站在那个胖子旁边的桥上我不必推他
143	Suppose he were standing over a trap door that I could open by turning a steering wheel like that.	假设他站在一个陷阱的门上我可以打开通过转动方向盘这样。
144	Would you turn?	你会转身吗?
145	For some reason, that still just seems more wrong.	出于某种原因,这似乎更错了。
146	Right?	对吧?
147	I mean, maybe if you accidentally like leaned into the steering wheel or something like that,	我的意思是,也许如果你不小心喜欢倾斜到方向盘或类似的东西,
148	or say that the car is hurtling towards a switch that will drop the trap, then I could agree with that.	或者说这辆车正在向一个开关开动开关会掉下陷阱我同意
149	Fair enough.	不错
150	It still seems wrong in a way that it doesn't seem wrong in the first case to turn, you say.	你说,在第一个案子里似乎还是不对的
151	And in another way, I mean, in the first situation, you're involved directly with the situation.	还有一种方式,我是说,在第一种情况下,你直接卷入了这种情况.
152	In the second one, you're an onlooker as well.	在第二个,你也是一个旁观者。
153	All right.	好吧,我们走。
154	So you have the choice of becoming involved or not by pushing the fat man.	所以你有选择参与与否通过推胖子。
155	Let's forget for the moment about this case.	暂时忘记这个案子吧
156	That's good.	这是很好的。
157	Let's imagine a different case.	让我们设想一个不同的情况。
158	This time you're a doctor in an emergency room and six patients come to you.	这次你是急诊室的医生六位病人来找你
159	They've been in a terrible trolley car wreck.	他们遭遇了可怕的车祸
160	Five of them sustained moderate injuries.	其中5人受轻伤。
161	One is severely injured.	其中一人受重伤。
162	You could spend all day caring for the one severely injured victim.	你可以花一整天时间照顾一个严重受伤的受害者。
163	But in that time, the five would die.	但在那段时间,五人会死。
164	Or you could look after the five, restore them to health.	或者你可以照顾五个人,恢复他们的健康。
165	But during that time, the one severely injured person would die.	但在这期间,一名重伤者将死亡。
166	How many would save the five?	多少人能救五个人?
167	Now is the doctor.	现在的医生。
168	How many would save the one?	有多少人能救那个?
169	Very few people.	甚少众生.
170	Just a handful of people.	只是几个人
171	Same reason, I assume.	我想也是一样的原因
172	One life versus five.	一命对五.
173	Now consider another doctor case.	现在考虑另一个医生病例。
174	This time you're a transplant surgeon.	这次你是移植外科医生
175	And you have five patients, each in desperate need of an organ transplant in order to survive.	你们有五个病人,每个病人都急需器官移植才能生存。
176	One needs a heart, one a lung, one a kidney, one a liver, and the fifth a pancreas.	一者须心,一者肺,一者肾,一者肝,五者胰.
177	And you have no organ donors.	而你没有器官捐献者。
178	You are about to see them die.	你即将看到他们死去。
179	And then it occurs to you that in the next room, there's a healthy guy who came in for a checkup.	然后你想到,在隔壁的房间, 有一个健康的家伙谁进来检查。
180	And he's, you like that?	他,你喜欢吗?
181	And he's taking a nap.	他正在睡觉
182	You could go in very quietly, yank out the five organs, that person would die.	你可以悄悄地进去挖出五个器官那个人会死的
183	But you could save the five.	但你可以救五个人
184	How many would do it?	有多少人会这么做?
185	Anyone?	有人吗?
186	How many?	多少个?
187	Put your hands up if you would do it.	如果你愿意的话,举起手来
188	Anyone in the balcony?	有人在阳台吗?
189	You would?	你会吗?
190	Be careful, don't lean over too much.	小心点,别靠得太紧
191	What?	你说什么?
192	How many wouldn't?	有多少不会?
193	All right, what do you say?	好吧,怎么样?
194	Speak up in the balcony, you who would yank out the organs.	在阳台上说话,谁会挖出器官。
195	Why?	为什么?
196	I'd actually like to explore a slightly alternate possibility of just taking the one of the five who needs an organ who dies first,	我其实想探索一种稍稍交替的可能性就把需要先死器官的五个人中的一个带走
197	using their four healthy organs to save the other four.	用他们四个健康的器官来拯救另外四个
198	That's a pretty good idea.	这主意不错
199	That's a great idea, except for the fact that you just wrecked the philosophical point.	这是一个伟大的想法,除了你刚刚破坏了哲学的观点。
200	Well, let's step back from these stories and these arguments	好吧,让我们退一步从这些故事和这些争论
201	to notice a couple of things about the way the arguments have begun to unfold.	注意一些关于争论开始展开的方式
202	Certain moral principles have already begun to emerge from the discussions we've had.	我们的讨论已经开始产生一些道德原则。
203	And let's consider what those moral principles look like.	让我们来看看这些道德原则是什么样子。
204	The first moral principle that emerged in the discussion said,	讨论中出现的第一项道德原则是:
205	the right thing to do, the moral thing to do, depends on the consequences that will result from your action.	正确的事情做,道德的事情做, 取决于后果由你的行动。
206	At the end of the day, better that five should live even if one must die.	最后,最好让五个人活着即使一个人必须死。
207	That's an example of consequentialist moral reasoning.	这是间接道德推理的例子.
208	Consequentialist moral reasoning locates morality in the consequences of an act,	随之而来的道德推理将道德定位于行为的后果中,
209	in the state of the world that will result from the thing you do.	发生在世界的状态, 将因你的行为。
210	Then we went a little further, we considered those other cases,	然后我们走得更远我们考虑了其他案件
211	and people weren't so sure about consequentialist moral reasoning.	人们不这么确定后果论道德推理。
212	When people hesitated to push the fat man over the bridge	当人们犹豫不决地把胖子推到桥上
213	or to yank out the organs of the innocent patient,	或拔出无辜病人的器官,
214	people gestured toward reasons having to do with the intrinsic quality of the act itself.	人们对与行为本身的内在质量有关的原因表态。
215	Consequences be what they may.	后果是可能发生的。
216	People were reluctant, people thought it was just wrong, categorically wrong,	人们很不情愿人们觉得这是错误的绝对是错误的
217	to kill a person, an innocent person, even for the sake of saving five lives.	杀死一个人,一个无辜的人, 即使为了挽救五个生命。
218	At least people thought that in the second version of each story we considered.	至少在我们考虑的每个故事的第二个版本中,人们都这样认为.
219	So this points to a second categorical way of thinking about moral reasoning.	因此,这指出了第二个对道德推理的断然思考方式.
220	Categorical moral reasoning locates morality in certain absolute moral requirements,	分类道德推理定位道德在某些绝对道德要求,
221	certain categorical duties and rights, regardless of the consequences.	某些明确的义务和权利,不论后果如何。
222	We're going to explore in the days and weeks to come	以后几天和几周我们再去探索
223	the contrast between consequentialist and categorical moral principles.	必然和绝对道德原则的对比。
224	The most influential example of consequential moral reasoning is utilitarianism,	影响最大的道德推理例子是功利主义,
225	a doctrine invented by Jeremy Bentham, the 18th century English political philosopher.	一种由18世纪英国政治哲学家杰里米·本特姆发明的学说.
226	The most important philosopher of categorical moral reasoning	绝对道德推理最重要的哲学家
227	is the 18th century German philosopher Immanuel Kant.	是18世纪德国哲学家伊曼纽尔·康德.
228	So we will look at those two different modes of moral reasoning, assess them, and also consider others.	因此,我们将研究这两种不同的道德推理模式,评估它们,并审议其他模式。
229	If you look at the syllabus you'll notice that we read a number of great and famous books.	如果你看看教学大纲,你会注意到我们读了很多伟大和著名的书籍。
230	Books by Aristotle, John Locke, Immanuel Kant, John Stuart Mill, and others.	著有亚里士多德,约翰·洛克,伊曼纽尔·坎特,约翰·斯图尔特·米尔等人的书.
231	You'll notice too from the syllabus that we don't only read these books.	你也会从教学大纲中注意到我们不只是看这些书
232	We also take up contemporary political and legal controversies that raise philosophical questions.	我们还处理引起哲学问题的当代政治和法律争议。
233	We will debate equality and inequality, affirmative action, free speech versus hate speech,	我们将讨论平等和不平等、平权行动、言论自由与仇恨言论,
234	same-sex marriage, military conscription, a range of practical questions.	同性婚姻征兵一系列实际问题
235	Why?	为什么?
236	Not just to enliven these abstract and distant books,	不只是为这些抽象和遥远的书注入活力,
237	but to make clear, to bring out what's at stake in our everyday lives, including our political lives, for philosophy.	但为了说明揭示我们日常生活中包括政治生活中的利害关系为了哲学
238	And so we will read these books, and we will debate these issues,	所以,我们将阅读这些书, 我们将辩论这些问题,
239	and we'll see how each informs and illuminates the other.	我们看看每个人如何向对方提供信息和照明
240	This may sound appealing enough, but here I have to issue a warning.	也许这听起来很吸引人但我得发出警告
241	And the warning is this, to read these books in this way, as an exercise in self-knowledge,	警告是,用这种方式阅读这些书,作为自我认知的练习,
242	to read them in this way carries certain risks, risks that are both personal and political,	以这种方式阅读它们会带来某些风险,风险既包括个人风险,也包括政治风险,
243	risks that every student of political philosophy has known.	每一个政治哲学学生都知道的风险。
244	These risks spring from the fact that philosophy teaches us and unsettles us	这些风险源于哲学教导我们,使我们不安
245	by confronting us with what we already know.	通过面对我们已经知道的东西。
246	There's an irony.	有讽刺意味。
247	The difficulty of this course consists in the fact that it teaches what you already know.	这个课程的难度在于它教授你已经知道的东西。
248	It works by taking what we know from familiar unquestioned settings and making it strange.	它的工作原理是,从熟悉的无疑问的场合中吸取我们的知识,使它变得奇怪。
249	That's how those examples worked, the hypotheticals with which we began, with their mix of playfulness and sobriety.	这些例子就是这样起作用的, 我们开始的假设, 和他们玩耍和清醒的组合。
250	It's also how these philosophical books work.	这也是这些哲学著作是如何运作的.
251	Philosophy estranges us from the familiar, not by supplying new information,	哲学让我们远离熟悉的人而不是提供新的信息
252	but by inviting and provoking a new way of seeing.	但通过邀请和激起新的观察方式。
253	But, and here's the risk, once the familiar turns strange, it's never quite the same again.	但是,这里的风险是, 一旦熟悉的人变得奇怪, 它不再完全一样了。
254	Self-knowledge is like lost innocence.	自知如是失净.
255	However unsettling you find it, it can never be unthought or unknown.	无论你多么不安地找到了它,它永远不可能是无意识的或未知的。
256	What makes this enterprise difficult, but also riveting, is that moral and political philosophy is a story,	使这个事业困难重重但也令人兴奋的是道德和政治哲学是一个故事
257	and you don't know where the story will lead, but what you do know is that the story is about you.	你不知道故事会走向何处但你知道的是故事是关于你的
258	Those are the personal risks.	这些是个人风险。
259	Now what of the political risks?	现在的政治风险呢?
260	One way of introducing a course like this would be to promise you that by reading these books and debating these issues,	引入这样的课程的方法之一就是向你保证通过阅读这些书和辩论这些问题
261	you will become a better, more responsible citizen.	你会成为一个更好,更负责任的公民。
262	You will examine the presuppositions of public policy, you will hone your political judgment,	你将研究公共政策的预设, 你将发挥你的政治判断,
263	you will become a more effective participant in public affairs.	你将更有效地参与公共事务。
264	But this would be a partial and misleading promise.	但这将是一个部分和误导性的承诺。
265	Political philosophy, for the most part, hasn't worked that way.	政治哲学,在多数情况下,还没有这样发挥作用.
266	You have to allow for the possibility that political philosophy may make you a worse citizen,	你必须允许政治哲学让你成为更糟糕的公民
267	rather than a better one, or at least a worse citizen, before it makes you a better one.	而不是一个更好的人, 或者至少一个更糟糕的公民, 在它让你成为一个更好的人。
268	And that's because philosophy is a distancing, even debilitating activity.	这是因为哲学是一种疏远甚至削弱的活动.
269	And you see this going back to Socrates.	你会看到这个回到苏格拉底。
270	There's a dialogue, the Gorgias, in which one of Socrates' friends,	有一个对话,Gorgias, 其中苏格拉底的朋友之一,
271	Chalicles, 试图说服他脱离哲学。
272	Chalicles tells Socrates, philosophy is a pretty toy if one indulges in it with moderation at the right time of life,	查利克利斯告诉苏格拉底哲学是一个相当的玩具如果有人在生命的正确时刻温和地沉浸其中
273	but if one pursues it further than one should, it is absolute ruin.	但如果有人继续追求它,那它绝对是毁灭。
274	Take my advice, Chalicles says, abandon argument.	接受我的建议查利克利斯说放弃争论
275	Learn the accomplishments of active life.	学习积极生活的成绩.
276	Take for your models not those people who spend their time on these petty quibbles,	做你的模特而不是那些花时间玩这些小花样的人
277	but those who have a good livelihood and reputation and many other blessings.	他们有良好的生计和声望,并享受许多福利。
278	So Chalicles is really saying to Socrates, quit philosophizing, get real, go to business school.	因此,查利克利斯真的在对苏格拉底说, 戒掉哲理, 变得真实, 去商学院。
279	And Chalicles did have a point.	查利克利斯说得有道理
280	He had a point because philosophy distances us from conventions, from established assumptions, and from settled beliefs.	他之所以有道理,是因为哲学使我们远离公约、既定的假设和既定的信仰。
281	Those are the risks, personal and political.	这些是个人和政治风险。
282	And in the face of these risks, there is a characteristic evasion.	面对这些风险,存在着典型的逃避现象。
283	The name of the evasion is skepticism.	逃者名曰疑论.
284	It's the idea, oh, let go something like this.	这是想法,哦,放过类似的东西。
285	We didn't resolve, once and for all,	我们没有一劳永逸地决定
286	either the cases or the principles we were arguing when we began.	要么是案件要么是我们开始时争论的原则
287	And if Aristotle and Locke and Kant and Mill haven't solved these questions after all of these years,	如果亚里士多德、洛克、康特和米尔这么多年没解决这些问题
288	who are we to think that we here in Sanders Theater over the course of a semester can resolve them?	谁会认为我们在桑德斯一个学期的戏剧可以解决吗?
289	And so maybe it's just a matter of each person having his or her own principles	所以也许这只是每个人有自己的原则的问题
290	and there's nothing more to be said about it, no way of reasoning.	也没什么可说的了没有推理方法
291	That's the evasion, the evasion of skepticism, to which I would offer the following.	这就是逃避,逃避怀疑,对此我提出以下建议.
292	It's true, these questions have been debated for a very long time.	确实,这些问题已经辩论了很长时间.
293	But the very fact that they have recurred and persisted	但事实上,他们不断重演
294	may suggest that though they're impossible in one sense, they're unavoidable in another.	可能暗示,虽然从某种意义上说,它们是不可能的,但从另一种意义上说,它们是不可避免的。
295	And the reason they're unavoidable, the reason they're inescapable,	和他们不可避免的原因, 和他们无法逃避的原因,
296	is that we live some answer to these questions every day.	我们每天都有这些问题的答案
297	So skepticism, just throwing up your hands and giving up on moral reflection, is no solution.	所以怀疑主义,只是举起手来,放弃道德反思,不是办法.
298	Immanuel Kant described very well the problem with skepticism when he wrote,	伊曼纽尔·康德(Immanuel Kant)在写到怀疑主义时非常清楚地描述了这个问题,
299	skepticism is a resting place for human reason, where it can reflect upon its dogmatic wanderings,	怀疑主义是人类的安息之所, 它可以反思它的教条游荡,
300	but it is no dwelling place for permanent settlement.	但这里不是永久居民点。
301	Simply to acquiesce in skepticism, Kant wrote,	康德写道:
302	can never suffice to overcome the restlessness of reason.	永远无法克服理性的不安。
303	I've tried to suggest through these stories and these arguments	我试图通过这些故事和争论来建议
304	some sense of the risks and temptations of the perils and the possibilities.	某些风险和诱惑感风险和可能性。
305	I would simply conclude by saying that the aim of this course	我最后只想说,这一课程的目的
306	is to awaken the restlessness of reason and to see where it might lead.	就是唤醒理智的不安并看看它可能走向何方
307	Thank you very much.	谢谢
308	In a situation that desperate, you have to do what you have to do to survive.	在如此绝望的情况下,你必须做你必须做的事才能生存.
309	You have to do what you have to do.	须作如是事.
310	You gotta do what you gotta do, pretty much.	你得做你该做的, 相当多。
311	If you've been going 19 days without any food, someone just has to take the sacrifice,	如果你19天没吃东西就得有人去牺牲
312	someone has to make the sacrifice and people can survive.	得有人去牺牲人民才能生存
313	Alright, that's good.	好吧,这是很好的。
314	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
315	Marcus.	马库斯
316	What do you say to Marcus?	你对马库斯怎么说?
317	Last time, we started out last time with some stories,	上次,我们开始一些故事,
318	with some moral dilemmas about trolley cars and about doctors	与一些道德困境关于推车和医生
319	and healthy patients vulnerable to being victims of organ transplantation.	健康病人很容易成为器官移植的受害者。
320	We noticed two things about the arguments we had.	我们注意到两件事关于我们的争论。
321	One had to do with the way we were arguing.	一个和我们争论的方式有关
322	We began with our judgments in particular cases.	我们首先对特定案件作出判决。
323	We tried to articulate the reasons or the principles	我们试图阐明原因或原则
324	lying behind our judgments.	站在我们判决的后面
325	And then, confronted with a new case,	然后,面对一个新的案件,
326	we found ourselves reexamining those principles,	我们重新审视了这些原则,
327	revising each in the light of the other.	分别根据对方修改。
328	And we noticed the built-in pressure to try to bring into alignment	我们注意到内在的压力试图实现对齐
329	our judgments about particular cases	我们对于特定案件的判决
330	and the principles we would endorse on reflection.	我们赞同思考的原则。
331	We also noticed something about the substance of the arguments	我们也注意到了争论的实质
332	that emerged from the discussion.	讨论中出现的问题。
333	We noticed that sometimes we were tempted to locate the morality of an act	我们注意到,有时候我们想找到一个行为的道德
334	and the consequences in the results,	以及结果的后果,
335	in the state of the world that it brought about.	在它带来的世界状态。
336	And we called this consequentialist moral reasoning.	我们称之为必然的道德推理。
337	But we also noticed that in some cases,	但我们也注意到,在某些情况下,
338	we weren't swayed only by the result.	我们不只是因为结果而摇摆不定
339	Sometimes, many of us felt,	有时,我们许多人觉得,
340	that not just consequences but also the intrinsic quality	不仅后果,而且内在质量
341	or character of the act matters morally.	行为或行为的性质在道义上很重要。
342	Some people argued that there are certain things	有人说有些事情
343	that are just categorically wrong,	这完全是错误的,
344	even if they bring about a good result,	即使他们带来了佳果,
345	even if they save five people at the cost of one life.	即使他们以一命的代价拯救了五个人。
346	So we contrasted consequentialist moral principles	所以我们对比了后果主义的道德原则
347	with categorical ones.	与绝对的。
348	Today, and in the next few days,	今天接下来的几天
349	we will begin to examine one of the most influential versions	我们开始研究最有影响力的版本之一
350	of consequentialist moral theory.	道德理论。
351	And that's the philosophy of utilitarianism.	这就是功利主义的哲学.
352	Jeremy Bentham, the 18th century English political philosopher,	杰里米·本特姆,18世纪英国政治哲学家,
353	gave first the first clear systematic expression	第一个清晰的系统表达
354	to the utilitarian moral theory.	对功利主义的道德理论。
355	And Bentham's idea, his essential idea,	而本塔姆的想法,他的基本想法,
356	is a very simple one,	很简单
357	with a lot of morally intuitive appeal.	与很多道德直观的吸引力。
358	Bentham's idea is the following.	本特姆的想法如下.
359	The right thing to do, the just thing to do,	正确的事情, 正义的事情,
360	is to maximize utility.	目的是最大限度地发挥效用。
361	What did he mean by utility?	他是什么意思的效用吗?
362	He meant by utility the balance of pleasure over pain,	他是指快乐和痛苦的平衡
363	happiness over suffering.	幸福胜过痛苦
364	Here's how he arrived at the principle of maximizing utility.	这就是他如何达到最大效用的原则.
365	He started out by observing that all of us, all human beings,	他开始观察我们所有的人
366	are governed by two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure.	受两个主权主人的支配痛苦和快乐
367	We human beings like pleasure and dislike pain.	我们人类喜欢快乐不喜欢痛苦
368	And so we should base morality,	所以我们应该把道德作为基础
369	whether we're thinking about what to do in our own lives,	我们是否在想我们自己的生活中该做什么
370	or whether, as legislators or citizens,	或作为立法者或公民,
371	we're thinking about what the laws should be.	我们在考虑法律应该是什么
372	The right thing to do individually or collectively	单独或集体做正确的事情
373	is to maximize, act in a way that maximizes	尽最大可能,以最大方式采取行动
374	the overall level of happiness.	幸福的整体水平。
375	Bentham's utilitarianism is sometimes summed up with the slogan,	班瑟姆的功利主义有时以口号概括,
376	the greatest good for the greatest number.	对人数来说最有利
377	With this basic principle of utility on hand,	有了这一基本实用原则,
378	let's begin to test it and to examine it	我们开始测试检查一下
379	by turning to another case, another story,	转而谈另一个案子,另一个故事,
380	but this time not a hypothetical story, a real life story,	但这次不是一个假想的故事一个真实的故事,
381	the case of the Queen versus Dudley and Stephens.	女王诉杜德利和史蒂芬的案子
382	This was a 19th century British law case that's famous	这是19世纪著名的英国法律案
383	and much debated in law schools.	和很多争论在法学院。
384	Here's what happened in the case.	案件是这样的
385	I'll summarize the story.	我将总结这个故事。
386	Then I want to hear how you would rule,	那么我想听听你如何统治
387	imagining that you're the jury.	想象你是陪审团
388	A newspaper account of the time described the background.	一份当时的报纸报道描述了背景.
389	A sadder story of disaster at sea was never told	海上灾难的悲惨故事从未传出去
390	比游艇Minunet的幸存者,
391	the ship founded in the South Atlantic,	在南大西洋建立的船,
392	1300 miles from the Cape.	距开普1300英里.
393	There were four in the crew.	船员中有四个
394	Dudley was the captain.	达德利是船长.
395	Stephens was the first mate.	斯蒂芬斯是大副。
396	Brooks was a sailor.	布鲁克斯是个水手
397	All men of excellent character,	所有品格优秀的人,
398	or so the newspaper account tells us.	报纸的账号告诉我们了
399	The fourth crew member was the cabin boy,	第四名船员是小船舱男孩
400	Richard Parker, 17 years old.	理查德·帕克,17岁.
401	He was an orphan.	他是个孤儿。
402	He had no family,	他没有家人
403	and he was on his first long voyage at sea.	他第一次在海上远航
404	He went, the news account tells us,	他去了,新闻账户告诉我们,
405	rather against the advice of his friends,	更违背他朋友的建议,
406	he went in the hopefulness of youthful ambition,	他怀着青春的抱负
407	thinking the journey would make a man of him.	以为旅途会让他成为男人
408	Sadly, it was not to be.	可悲的是,它不是那样的。
409	The facts of the case were not in dispute.	该案的事实没有争议。
410	A wave hit the ship and Minunet went down.	一波波击中舰只,米努内特下水.
411	The four crew members escaped to a lifeboat.	四名船员逃到救生艇.
412	The only food they had	他们唯一的食物
413	were two cans of preserved turnips.	是两罐保存好的萝卜
414	No fresh water.	没有淡水。
415	For the first three days they ate nothing.	头三天他们什么都没吃
416	On the fourth day,	在第四天的时候,
417	they opened one of the cans of turnips and ate it.	他们打开一个罐子,吃了它。
418	The next day they caught a turtle.	第二天他们抓到一只乌龟
419	Together with the other can of turnips,	加上另一罐萝卜
420	the turtle enabled them to subsist	乌龟使他们得以生存
421	for the next few days,	接下来几天
422	and then for eight days they had nothing.	过了八天他们一无所有
423	No food, no water.	无食无水.
424	Imagine yourself in a situation like that.	想象自己在这样的情况下。
425	What would you do?	你会怎么做?
426	Here's what they did.	这就是他们所做的。
427	By now, the cabin boy, Parker,	现在,小木屋男孩,帕克,
428	is lying at the bottom of the lifeboat in the corner	躺在转角救生艇底部
429	because he had drunk seawater	因为他喝过海水
430	against the advice of the others,	违抗他人的劝告,
431	and he had become ill,	他病了,
432	and he appeared to be dying.	他看起来快死了
433	So on the 19th day, Dudley,	所以在19日,达德利,
434	the captain suggested that they should all have a lottery,	船长建议他们应该都有一个彩票,
435	that they should draw lots to see who would die to save the rest.	他们应该抽签,看看谁会为了拯救其他人而死。
436	Brooks refused.	布鲁克斯拒绝了
437	He didn't like the lottery idea.	他不喜欢彩票的想法。
438	We don't know whether this was because	不知道是不是因为...
439	he didn't want to take the chance	他不想冒险
440	or because he believed in categorical moral principles.	或者因为他相信绝对的道德原则
441	But in any case,	但无论如何,
442	no lots were drawn.	没有抽签。
443	The next day, there was still no ship in sight,	第二天,仍然没有船在望
444	so Dudley told Brooks to advert his gaze,	杜德利让布鲁克斯转告他的目光
445	and he motioned to Stevens	他向史蒂文斯提议
446	that the boy Parker had better be killed.	帕克的男孩最好被杀了
447	Dudley offered a prayer.	达德利提出祈祷.
448	He told the boy his time had come,	他告诉那个男孩他的时间到了,
449	and he killed him with a penknife,	他用小刀杀了他,
450	stabbing him in the jugular vein.	刺其颈脉.
451	Brooks emerged from his conscientious objection	布鲁克斯出于良心拒服兵役
452	to share in the gruesome bounty.	分享可怕的赏金
453	For four days, the three of them	四天,他们三个
454	fed on the body and blood of the cabin boy.	以小屋男孩的身体和血液为食。
455	True story.	真实的故事。
456	And then they were rescued.	后被救出.
457	Dudley describes their rescue	达德利描述他们的营救情况
458	in his diary	在他的日记中
459	with staggering euphemism.	与惊人的委婉。
460	Quote,	引文为
461	On the 24th day,	在第24天,我们...
462	as we were having our breakfast,	我们吃早餐的时候
463	a ship appeared at last.	船终于出现了
464	The three survivors were picked up by a German ship.	三名幸存者被一艘德国船只接走.
465	They were taken back to Falmouth in England,	他们被带回英国的法茅斯
466	where they were arrested and tried.	在那里他们被逮捕和审判。
467	Brooks turned state's witness.	布鲁克斯成为州证人
468	Dudley and Stevens went to trial.	达德利和史蒂文斯受审.
469	They didn't dispute the facts.	他们并没有质疑事实。
470	They claimed they had acted out of necessity.	他们声称他们出于必要采取行动。
471	That was their defense.	那是他们的辩护
472	They argued, in effect,	他们辩称,实际上,
473	better that one should die,	最好让一个人死,
474	so that three could survive.	使三个人能够生存。
475	The prosecutor	检察官
476	wasn't swayed by that argument.	并没有被那个论点动摇。
477	He said murder is murder,	他说谋杀就是谋杀
478	and so the case went to trial.	案子也开始审理了
479	Now imagine you are the jury.	现在想象一下你是陪审团
480	And just to simplify the discussion,	为了简化讨论
481	put aside the question of law.	把法律问题搁置一边。
482	Let's assume that you as the jury	我们假设你是陪审团
483	are charged with deciding	负责决定
484	whether what they did was morally permissible or not.	他们的所作所为在道德上是否允许。
485	How many would vote not guilty	有多少人投无罪票
486	that what they did was morally permissible?	他们的所作所为在道德上是允许的?
487	And how many would vote guilty	和多少人会投有罪
488	that what they did was morally wrong?	他们的所作所为在道德上是错误的?
489	A pretty sizable majority.	相当的多数
490	Now let's see what people's reasons are,	现在让我们看看人们的理由是什么
491	and let me begin with those who are in the minority.	首先让我谈谈那些属于少数的人。
492	Let's hear first from the defense	我们先从辩方听
493	of Dudley and Stevens.	达德利和史蒂文斯
494	Why would you morally exonerate them?	你为什么在道义上免除他们的罪责?
495	What are your reasons?	你的理由为何?
496	Yes?	是吗?
497	I think it is morally reprehensible,	我认为这是道德上应受谴责的,
498	but I think that there is a distinction	但我觉得有区别
499	between what's morally reprehensible	道德上应受谴责的东西
500	and what makes someone legally accountable.	是什么使一个人法律责任。
501	In other words, as the judge said,	换句话说,正如法官所说,
502	what's always moral isn't necessarily against the law.	总是道德的东西不一定违法.
503	And while I don't think that necessity	虽然我觉得没必要
504	justifies theft or murder or any illegal act,	* 为盗窃、谋杀或任何非法行为辩护,
505	at some point your degree of necessity	在某个时候,你的需要程度
506	does in fact exonerate you from any guilt.	其实你已经无罪释放了
507	Okay, good.	好吧,不错。
508	Other defenders, other voices for the defense.	其他维权者其他维权者的声音
509	Moral justifications for what they did.	道德解释他们做了什么。
510	Yes?	是吗?
511	Alright, thank you.	好吧,谢谢。
512	I just feel like in a situation that desperate,	我只是觉得自己很绝望
513	you have to do what you have to do to survive.	你必须做你必须做的生存。
514	You have to do what you have to do.	须作如是事.
515	You gotta do what you gotta do, pretty much.	你得做你该做的, 相当多。
516	If you've been going 19 days without any food,	如果你19天没吃东西了
517	someone just has to take the sacrifice,	总得有人去牺牲
518	someone has to make the sacrifice, and people can survive.	得有人做出牺牲人们才能生存
519	And furthermore, from that, let's say they survive,	而且,从这个开始,让我们假设他们活了下来,
520	and then they become productive members of society	然后他们成为社会的有生产力的成员
521	who go home and start like a million charity organizations	他们回家开始像一百万个慈善组织
522	and this and that and this and that.	和这个,那个,这个,那个。
523	I mean, they benefit everybody in the end.	我是说,他们最终对每个人都有好处。
524	I mean, I don't know what they did afterwards.	我不知道他们后来做了什么
525	They might have gone and like, I don't know,	他们可能走了喜欢,我不知道,
526	killed more people, whatever.	杀了更多的人,不管什么。
527	What?	你说什么?
528	What if they went home and they turned out to be assassins?	要是他们回家成了刺客怎么办?
529	What if they went home and turned out to be assassins?	如果他们回家变成刺客怎么办?
530	You'd want to know who they assassinated.	你会想知道他们暗杀了谁
531	That's true, too.	亦如是说.
532	That's fair.	这很公平。
533	Okay.	摆
534	All right, that's good.	好吧,这是很好的。
535	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
536	Marcus.	马库斯
537	All right.	好吧,我们走。
538	We've heard a defense, a couple of voices for the defense.	我们已经听到一个辩护, 几个声音的辩护。
539	Now we need to hear from the prosecution.	现在我们需要检方的消息
540	Most people think what they did was wrong.	大多数人认为他们的所作所为是错误的.
541	Why?	为什么?
542	One of the first things that I was thinking was,	我最初想到的一件事是,
543	oh, if they haven't been eating for a really long time,	哦,如果他们还没有吃很久,
544	maybe they're mentally, like, affected.	也许他们是精神上,喜欢,受到影响。
545	And so then that could be used as a defense,	因此,可以用来作为辩护,
546	a possible argument that, oh, they weren't in the proper state of mind.	一个可能的论点,哦, 他们是不是在正常的头脑状态。
547	They weren't making decisions they might otherwise be making.	他们不是在做他们可能要做的决定
548	And if that's an appealing argument,	如果这是个有吸引力的争论
549	that you have to be in an altered mindset to do something like that,	你不得不改变心态做这样的事情,
550	it suggests that people who find that argument convincing	这说明那些认为这个论点令人信服的人
551	do think that they were acting immorally.	认为他们的行为是不道德的。
552	But I want to know what you think.	但我想知道你的看法。
553	You defend them.	你为他们辩护。
554	I'm sorry.	对不起
555	You vote to convict, right?	你投给罪犯,对吧?
556	Yeah.	对
557	I don't think that they acted in a morally appropriate way.	我认为他们的行为在道德上是不恰当的.
558	And why not?	为什么不呢?
559	What do you say?	你说什么?
560	Here's Marcus.	这是马库斯。
561	He just defended them.	他只是替他们辩护
562	He said, you heard what he said.	他说,你听到他说的。
563	That you've got to do what you've got to do in a case like that.	你必须做你必须做的在类似的情况。
564	Yeah.	对
565	What do you say to Marcus?	你对马库斯怎么说?
566	That there's no situation that would allow human beings	没有任何情况允许人类
567	to take the idea of fate or the other people's lives in their own hands,	将命运或他人生命的想法掌握在自己手中,
568	that we don't have that kind of power.	我们没有那种力量
569	Good.	不错
570	Okay.	摆
571	Thank you.	谢谢
572	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
573	Britt?	布丽特?
574	Yes.	对
575	Okay.	摆
576	Who else?	还有谁?
577	What do you say?	你说什么?
578	Stand up.	站起来
579	I'm wondering if Dudley and Stephen had asked for Richard Parker's consent in,	我想知道杜德利和史蒂芬是否要求理查德・帕克同意
580	you know, dying.	临终前
581	If that would, would that exonerate them from an act of murder?	如果这样,那会让他们免于谋杀吗?
582	And if so, is that still morally justifiable?	如果是这样,这在道义上还是有道理的?
583	That's interesting.	这很有趣。
584	All right.	好吧,我们走。
585	Consent.	同意同意吗
586	Wait, wait.	单单
587	Hang on.	坚持住。
588	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
589	Kathleen.	凯瑟琳
590	Says, suppose they had asked.	说,假设他们问。
591	What would that scenario look like?	那会是什么情况?
592	So in the story, Dudley is there, penknife in hand.	所以在故事里,杜德利就在那里,手持笔刀.
593	But instead of the prayer, or before the prayer,	与其祈祷,或祈祷之前,
594	he says, Parker, would you mind?	他说,帕克,你介意吗?
595	We're desperately hungry, as Marcus empathizes with.	马库斯很同情我们
596	We're desperately hungry.	我们快饿死了
597	You're not going to last long anyhow.	反正你撑不了多久的
598	You can be a martyr.	你可以当烈士
599	Would you be a martyr?	你会成为烈士吗?
600	How about it, Parker?	怎么样,帕克?
601	Then, then what do you think?	那你觉得呢?
602	Would it be morally justified then?	那么这在道义上是否合理?
603	Suppose Parker, in his semi stupor, says, OK.	假设Parker在半脑筋里说
604	I don't think it would be morally justifiable, but I'm wondering.	我觉得这在道德上是没有道理的但我想知道
605	Even then, even then it wouldn't be.	即使那样,即使那样也不会是。
606	No.	没有
607	You don't think that even with consent, it would be morally justified.	你不认为,即使得到同意,这在道德上也是合理的。
608	Are there people who think, who want to take up Kathleen's consent idea,	有没有人想,谁想接受凯瑟琳的同意想法,
609	and who think that that would make it morally justified?	谁会认为这在道德上是合理的呢?
610	Raise your hand if it would, if you think it would.	举起你的手,如果它会,如果你认为会。
611	That's very interesting.	这很有趣。
612	Why would consent make a moral difference?	为什么同意会改变道德?
613	Why would it?	为什么?
614	Yes.	对
615	Well, I just think that if he was making his own original idea,	好吧,我只是觉得,如果他做他自己的想法,
616	and it was his idea to start with,	而这是他的主意首先,
617	then that would be the only situation in which I would see it being appropriate in any way.	那样的话,我就会认为这是唯一合适的情况。
618	Because that way you couldn't make the argument that he was pressured, you know,	因为那样你就不能提出他的压力,你知道,
619	it's three to one, or whatever the ratio was.	3比1,或者说比例是多少
620	Right.	对
621	And I think that if he was making a decision to give his life,	我认为如果他决定献出生命
622	and he took on the agency to sacrifice himself,	而他却为了牺牲自己而上当
623	which some people might see as admirable,	或有人以为是可敬的,
624	and other people might disagree with that decision.	其他人可能不同意这一决定。
625	So if he came up with the idea,	所以如果他想出这个主意
626	that's the only kind of consent we could have confidence in morally,	这是我们在道德上唯一可以信任的
627	then it would be okay.	那样就好了
628	Otherwise, it would be kind of coerced consent under the circumstances, you think.	否则,你认为,在这种情况下,那是一种强迫同意。
629	Is there anyone who thinks that even the consent of Parker would not justify their killing him?	有没有人认为即使得到帕克的同意也不足以证明杀害他是合理的?
630	Who thinks that?	谁这么认为?
631	Yes.	对
632	Tell us why.	告诉我为什么。
633	Stand up.	站起来
634	I think that Parker would be killed with the hope that the other crew members would be rescued.	我想帕克会被杀希望其他船员能获救
635	So there's no definite reason that he should be killed,	所以,没有明确的理由他应该被杀,
636	because you don't know when they're going to get rescued.	因为你不知道他们何时会获救
637	So if you kill him, it's killing him in vain.	故若杀之,乃枉杀之.
638	Do you keep killing the crew member until you're rescued,	你继续杀死船员直到你获救为止
639	and then you're left with no one, because someone's going to die eventually?	然后你就一个人也没有了因为有人终究会死?
640	Well, the moral logic of the situation seems to be that,	事情的道德逻辑是
641	that they would keep on picking off the weakest, maybe, one by one, until they were rescued.	他们会继续捕捉最弱者, 也许,一个接一个,直到他们获救。
642	And in this case, luckily, they were rescued when three, at least, were still alive.	在此情况下,幸运的是,他们被救出,至少三个人还活着。
643	Now, if Parker did give his consent, would it be all right, do you think, or not?	现在,如果Parker真的同意了, 会不会没事, 你觉得呢?
644	No.	没有
645	It still wouldn't be right.	这还是不对的
646	And tell us why it wouldn't be all right.	告诉我们为什么不好。
647	First of all, cannibalism, I believe, is morally incorrect.	首先,我认为食人主义在道德上是不正确的。
648	So you shouldn't be eating a human anyway.	所以,你不应该吃一个人类反正。
649	So cannibalism is morally objectionable.	所以食人主义在道德上是令人厌恶的.
650	So then, even on the scenario of waiting until someone died, still it would be objectionable.	因此,即便在等待某人死亡的情况下,它仍然会引起反对。
651	Yes, to me personally.	是的,我个人。
652	I feel like it all depends on one's personal morals.	我觉得一切取决于个人道德
653	And, like, we can't sit here and just, like, this is just my opinion.	我们不能坐在这里,而这只是我的看法
654	Of course, other people are going to disagree.	当然,其他人会不同意。
655	Well, we'll see.	好吧,我们会看到。
656	Let's see what their disagreements are,	看看他们的分歧是什么
657	and then we'll see if they have reasons that can persuade you or not.	然后我们再看看他们是否有理由说服你
658	Let's try that.	让我们试试。
659	All right.	好吧,我们走。
660	Now, is there someone who can explain, those of you who are tempted by consent,	现在,有没有人可以解释, 你们中那些被同意诱惑的人,
661	can you explain why consent makes such a moral difference?	你能解释为什么同意会改变道德吗?
662	What about the lottery idea?	那彩票的点子呢?
663	Does that count as consent?	这算不算同意?
664	Remember, at the beginning, Dudley proposed a lottery.	记住,一开始,杜德利提出彩票.
665	Suppose that they had agreed to a lottery.	假设他们同意了彩票
666	Then, how many would then say it was all right?	那么,有多少人会说它没事?
667	Suppose there were a lottery, cabin boy lost, and the rest of the story unfolded.	假设有一个彩票,小屋男孩输了, 其他的故事展开。
668	Then, how many people would say it was morally permissible?	那么,有多少人会说这是道德允许的?
669	So, the numbers are rising if we add a lottery.	所以,如果我们加上彩票,数字就会上升。
670	Let's hear from one of you, for whom the lottery would make a moral difference.	让我们听听你们中的一个, 彩票会给谁带来道德上的改变。
671	Why would it?	为什么?
672	I think the essential element in my mind that makes it a crime	我觉得我脑海里的基本要素使它成为一种犯罪
673	is the idea that they decided at some point that their lives were more important than his,	他们认为他们的生命比他更重要
674	and that, I mean, that's kind of the basis for really any crime, right?	我的意思是,这是真正犯罪的基础,对不对?
675	It's like, my needs, my desires are more important than yours, and mine take precedent.	就像,我的需要,我的欲望比你更重要, 我的先例。
676	And if they had done a lottery where everyone consented that someone should die,	如果他们投过彩票大家都同意有人会死
677	and it's sort of like they're all sacrificing themselves to save the rest,	他们好像都在牺牲自己来拯救剩下的人
678	then it would be all right.	那就没事了
679	A little grotesque, but...	有点奇怪,但是...
680	But morally permissible?	但道德上允许?
681	Yes.	对
682	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
683	Matt.	马特。
684	So, Matt, for you, what bothers you is not the cannibalism, but the lack of due process.	所以,马特,对你来说,你烦恼的不是食人,而是缺乏正当程序。
685	I guess you could say that.	我想你可以这么说
686	Right?	对吧?
687	And can someone who agrees with Matt say a little bit more	同意马特的人可以多说一点
688	about why a lottery would make it, in your view, morally permissible?	在你看来,为什么彩票会在道德上允许?
689	Go ahead.	来吧。
690	The way I understood it originally was that that was the whole issue,	我最初的理解是,这就是整个问题,
691	is that the cabin boy was never consulted about whether or not something was going to happen to him,	船舱男孩从未被咨询关于他是否会出事,
692	even with the original lottery, whether or not he would be a part of that.	即使是原彩票, 他是否将参与其中。
693	It was just decided that he was the one that was going to die.	刚决定他就是那个要死的人
694	Right.	对
695	That's what happened in the actual case.	实案亦如此.
696	Right.	对
697	But if there were a lottery and they had all agreed to the procedure, you think that would be okay?	但是,如果有一个彩票他们都同意这个程序, 你觉得这可以吗?
698	Right, because then everyone knows that there's going to be a death,	是的,因为那时每个人都知道会有死亡,
699	whereas, you know, the cabin boy didn't know that this discussion was even happening.	但是,你知道,小屋男孩不知道这个讨论甚至正在发生。
700	There was no, you know, forewarning for him to know that, hey, I may be the one that's dying.	没有,你知道,前警告他知道,嘿,我可能是那个正在死亡的人。
701	All right.	好吧,我们走。
702	Now suppose everyone agrees to the lottery, they have the lottery,	现在假设每个人都同意彩票, 他们有彩票,
703	the cabin boy loses, and he changes his mind.	木屋男孩输了,他改变了主意。
704	You've already decided.	你已经决定了
705	It's like a verbal contract.	如是语约.
706	You can't go back on that.	你不能再这样了
707	You've decided the decision was made.	你已经决定了
708	You know, if you know that you're dying for the, you know, the reason for others to live,	你知道,如果你知道你正在死为,你知道,
709	you would, if someone else had died, you know that you would consume them.	你会的,如果有人死了, 你知道你会消耗他们。
710	Right.	对
711	But then he could say, I know, but I lost.	但他可以说,我知道,但我输了。
712	I just think that that's the whole moral issue is that there was no consulting of the cabin boy	我只是觉得这是整个道德问题... ... ......
713	and that that's what makes it the most horrible is that he had no idea what was even going on.	而这就是最可怕的是他根本不知道发生了什么
714	That had he known what was going on, it would be a bit more understandable.	如果他知道发生了什么事情,那会比较容易理解。
715	All right.	好吧,我们走。
716	Good.	不错
717	Now I want to hear, so there are some who think it's morally permissible,	现在我想听,所以有些人认为这是道德允许的,
718	but only about 20% led by Marcus.	但只有约20%的马库斯领导。
719	Then there are some who say the real problem here is the lack of consent,	还有一些人说真正的问题就是没有同意
720	whether the lack of consent to a lottery, to a fair procedure,	是否未同意彩票、公平程序,
721	or Kathleen's idea, lack of consent at the moment of death.	或者凯瑟琳的想法, 在死亡时刻缺乏同意。
722	And if we add consent, then more people are willing to consider the sacrifice morally justified.	如果我们加上同意,那么更多的人愿意认为这种牺牲在道德上是合理的。
723	I want to hear now, finally, from those of you who think even with consent,	现在,我终于想听听你们中那些即使同意的人
724	even with a lottery, even with a final murmur of consent by Parker at the very last moment,	即使是彩票, 即使最后的默默同意帕克在最后一刻,
725	it would still be wrong.	那还是不对的
726	And why would it be wrong?	为什么会这样?
727	That's what I want to hear.	这就是我想听到的。
728	Yes.	对
729	Well, the whole time I've been leaning all towards the categorical moral reasoning.	嗯,一直以来,我一直倾向于绝对的道德推理。
730	And I think that there's a possibility I'd be okay with the idea of a lottery	我觉得我可能会接受彩票的想法
731	and then the loser taking into their own hands to kill themselves	然后输家自己动手自杀
732	so that there wouldn't be an act of murder.	这样就不会有谋杀行为
733	But I still think that even that way it's coerced.	但我仍然认为,即使这种方式是胁迫的。
734	And also I don't think that there is any remorse.	我也不觉得有什么悔恨
735	We were eating our breakfast.	我们在吃早餐
736	It seems as though he's just sort of like, you know, the whole idea of not valuing someone else's life.	看起来他就像,你知道的, 不珍惜别人生命的整个想法。
737	So that makes me feel like I have to take the categorical...	这让我感觉我必须接受...
738	You want to throw the book at him.	你想把书扔给他
739	When he lacks remorse or a sense of having done anything wrong.	当他缺乏悔恨感或者没有做错任何事的感觉时.
740	Right.	对
741	So, all right, good.	所以,没事,很好。
742	Any other defenders who say it's just categorically wrong, with or without consent?	有其他维权者说这是完全错误的,无论是否同意?
743	Yes.	对
744	Stand up.	站起来
745	Why?	为什么?
746	I think undoubtedly the way our society's shaped murder is murder.	我认为我们社会的定型谋杀无疑是谋杀。
747	Murder is murder in every way.	谋杀就是谋杀
748	And our society looks at murder down on it in the same light.	我们的社会从同样的角度看待谋杀案
749	And I don't think it's any different in any case.	亦不思议一切差别.
750	Good.	不错
751	Let me ask you a question.	让我问你一个问题。
752	There were three lives at stake versus one.	有三条生命处于危险之中,对一。
753	Okay.	摆
754	The one, the cabin boy, he had no family.	那个小木屋男孩他没有家人
755	He had no dependents.	他没有家属
756	These other three had families back home in England.	这三人在英国有家人
757	They had dependents.	他们有家属。
758	They had wives and children.	他们有妻子和孩子。
759	Think back to Bentham.	回想本达姆.
760	Bentham says we have to consider the welfare, the utility, the happiness of everybody.	本特姆说我们必须考虑每个人的福利,效用,幸福.
761	We have to add it all up.	我们必须加起来。
762	So it's not just numbers three against one.	所以它不只是第3对1。
763	It's also all of those people at home.	在家的那些人也是这样
764	In fact, the London newspaper at the time and popular opinion sympathized with them.	事实上,当时的伦敦报纸和大众舆论都同情他们.
765	Dudley and Stevens.	达德利和史蒂文斯。
766	And the paper said if they weren't motivated by affection and concern	报纸上说如果他们不是出于爱和关心
767	for their loved ones at home and their dependents, surely they wouldn't have done this.	他们在家里的亲人和家属,必定不会这样做。
768	Yeah.	对
769	And how is that any different from people on the corner	和街角的人有什么不同吗?
770	trying to have the same desire to feed their family?	想要养家糊口?
771	I don't think it's any different.	亦无分别.
772	I think in any case, if I'm murdering you to advance my status, that's murder.	我认为无论如何,如果我谋杀你提升我的地位,这就是谋杀。
773	And I think that we should look at that all in the same light.	我认为我们应该从同一个角度来看待这些。
774	Instead of criminalizing certain activities	而不是将某些活动定为刑事犯罪
775	and making certain things seem more violent and savage,	使某些东西看起来更暴力更野蛮,
776	when in the same case it's all the same.	当在同一件事情上,一切都是一样的。
777	It's all the same act and mentality that goes into murder,	这都是同样的行为和心态进入谋杀,
778	the necessity to feed your family.	养家糊口
779	Suppose it weren't three.	假设不是三个
780	Suppose it were 30.	假设是30岁
781	Three hundred.	三百块
782	One life to save three hundred.	一命救三百众.
783	We're in wartime.	我们在战时
784	Three thousand.	三千户.
785	Suppose the stakes are even bigger.	如果赌注更大的话
786	I think it's still the same deal.	我觉得还是一样
787	Do you think Bentham is wrong to say the right thing to do	你觉得本特姆不该说正确的话
788	is to add up the collective happiness?	将集体幸福加起来?
789	Do you think he's wrong about that?	你觉得他错了吗?
790	I don't think he's wrong, but I think murder is murder in any case.	我不认为他错了但我认为谋杀是谋杀
791	Well, then Bentham has to be wrong.	那么本塔姆一定错了
792	If you're right, he's wrong.	如果你是对的他就错了
793	Okay, he's wrong.	好吧,他错了。
794	All right.	好吧,我们走。
795	Thank you.	谢谢
796	Well done.	干得不错
797	All right.	好吧,我们走。
798	Let's step back from this discussion	让我们从讨论后退一步
799	and notice how many objections have we heard to what they did.	注意我们听到多少反对他们做了什么。
800	We heard some defenses of what they did.	我们听到一些辩护他们做了什么。
801	The defenses had to do with necessity, their dire circumstance,	被告的辩护与危急情况有关
802	and, implicitly at least, the idea that numbers matter.	以及至少暗含着数字很重要的想法。
803	And not only numbers matter, but the wider effects matter.	不仅数字重要,而且更广泛的影响也重要。
804	Their families back home, their dependents.	其家人归家,其眷属也.
805	Parker was an orphan.	帕克是一个孤儿。
806	No one would miss him.	没有人会想念他。
807	So if you add up, if you try to calculate the balance of happiness and suffering,	所以,如果你加起来, 如果你试图计算幸福和痛苦的平衡,
808	you might have a case for saying what they did was the right thing.	你可能有一个理由说他们做了什么是正确的事情。
809	Then we heard at least three different types of objections.	然后我们至少听到三种不同的反对。
810	We heard an objection that said what they did was categorically wrong.	我们听到有人反对说,他们的所作所为绝对是错误的。
811	Well, Mike here at the end, categorically wrong.	嗯,迈克在这里结尾,绝对错误。
812	Murder is murder.	谋杀就是谋杀
813	It's always wrong,	总是不对劲
814	even if it increases the overall happiness of society.	即使它能增加社会的整体幸福
815	A categorical objection.	绝对反对。
816	But we still need to investigate why murder is categorically wrong.	但我们仍然需要调查为什么谋杀绝对是错误的。
817	Is it because even cabin boys have certain fundamental rights?	是因为连小屋男孩都有某些基本权利吗?
818	And if that's the reason, where do those rights come from,	如果这就是原因这些权利从何而来
819	if not from some idea of the larger welfare or utility or happiness?	如果不是从某种更大的福利或效用或幸福的想法?
820	Question number one.	问曰.
821	Others said a lottery would make a difference.	其他人说彩票会有所改变
822	A fair procedure, Matt said.	马特说,公平程序
823	But, and some people were swayed by that.	但是,有些人为此摇摆不定。
824	That's not a categorical objection exactly.	这不是绝对的反对
825	It's saying everybody has to be counted as an equal,	意思是每个人都得被算作平等
826	even though at the end of the day one can be sacrificed for the general welfare.	尽管在一天结束时,人们可以为了一般的福利而牺牲。
827	That leaves us with another question to investigate.	这就让我们有另一个问题要调查。
828	Why does agreement to a certain procedure, even a fair procedure,	为什么同意某种程序,甚至公平程序,
829	justify whatever result flows from the operation of that procedure?	说明该程序运作所产生的任何结果是合理的吗?
830	Question number two.	第二问.
831	And question number three, the basic idea of consent.	第三问题,同意的基本思想。
832	Kathleen got us on to this.	凯瑟琳让我们知道这事
833	If the cabin boy had agreed himself and not under duress, as was added,	如果小木屋男孩同意而不是在胁迫之下加上,
834	then it would be all right to take his life to save the rest.	那样的话,就完全可以夺走他的性命来拯救剩下的人了.
835	And even more people signed on to that idea.	更多的人同意这个想法。
836	But that raises a third philosophical question.	但这提出了第三个哲学问题。
837	What is the moral work that consent does?	同意的道德工作是什么?
838	Why does an act of consent make such a moral difference	为什么同意的行为使这样的道德差异
839	that an act that would be wrong, taking a life without consent,	在未经同意的情况下夺走生命的行为,
840	is morally permissible with consent?	道德上是否允许同意?
841	To investigate those three questions, we're going to have to read some philosophers.	为了调查这三个问题,我们要读一些哲学家.
842	And starting next time, we're going to read Bentham and John Stuart Mill, utilitarian philosophers.	从下次开始,我们要读本特姆和约翰·斯图尔特·米尔,功利主义哲学家.
843	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
844	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。

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P3 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p03 2. 2.为生命标价 (P3)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p03 2. 2.为生命标价 (P3)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 20:50

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
0:07	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
0:29	Last time we argued	我们上次吵架
0:34	about the case of the Queen versus Dudley and Stevens.	关于王后对杜德利和史蒂文斯的案子
0:39	The lifeboat case.	那个救生艇的案子
0:41	The case of cannibalism at sea.	海上食人现象.
0:44	And with the arguments about	和争论关于
0:48	the lifeboat in mind, the arguments for and against what Dudley	救生艇, 辩论和反对什么Dudley
0:52	and Stevens did in mind, let's turn back to the	而史蒂文斯的想法, 让我们回到
0:56	philosophy, the utilitarian philosophy of Jeremy Bentham.	哲学,杰里米·本塔姆的功利主义哲学.

展开字幕全文（389 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
2	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
3	Last time we argued	我们上次吵架
4	about the case of the Queen versus Dudley and Stevens.	关于王后对杜德利和史蒂文斯的案子
5	The lifeboat case.	那个救生艇的案子
6	The case of cannibalism at sea.	海上食人现象.
7	And with the arguments about	和争论关于
8	the lifeboat in mind, the arguments for and against what Dudley	救生艇, 辩论和反对什么Dudley
9	and Stevens did in mind, let's turn back to the	而史蒂文斯的想法, 让我们回到
10	philosophy, the utilitarian philosophy of Jeremy Bentham.	哲学,杰里米·本塔姆的功利主义哲学.
11	Bentham was born in England in 1748.	本特姆1748年出生于英国.
12	At the age	年纪
13	of 12, he went to Oxford.	12岁的时候,他去了牛津
14	At 15, he went to law school.	15岁就读于法学院.
15	He was admitted to the bar at age 19, but he never practiced	他19岁时被酒吧录取但他从未练习过
16	law.	诸法.
17	Instead, he devoted his life	相反,他奉献了他的生命
18	to jurisprudence and moral philosophy.	法律学和道德哲学
19	Last time	上次见
20	we began to consider Bentham's version of utilitarianism.	我们开始考虑本塔姆的功利主义
21	The main idea is simply stated and it's this.	主要思想只是简单地陈述,就是这个.
22	The highest principle of morality, whether personal	道德的最高原则,无论个人
23	or political morality, is to maximize	或政治道德,就是最大限度地
24	the general welfare or the collective	一般福利或集体福利
25	happiness or the overall balance of pleasure over pain.	快乐或快乐与痛苦的平衡
26	In a phrase, maximize utility.	在一个短语中,最大化效用.
27	Bentham arrives at this principle by the following line of reasoning.	本特姆通过以下推理得出了这一原则.
28	We're all governed by pain and pleasure.	皆受苦乐所化.
29	They are	他们是
30	our sovereign masters and so any moral system has to take account of them.	任何道德制度都必须考虑到他们
31	How best to take account?	如何最好地考虑?
32	By maximizing.	通过最大化。
33	And this leads to the principle of the greatest good for the	这导致了最大利益的原则
34	greatest number.	最伟大的数字。
35	What exactly should we maximize?	我们究竟应该最大限度地做些什么?
36	Bentham tells us, happiness or more precisely	Bentham告诉我们,幸福或更确切
37	utility.	实用性。
38	Maximizing utility is a principle	最大限度地发挥效用是一项原则
39	not only for individuals, but also for communities and for legislators.	不仅针对个人,而且针对社区和立法者。
40	What after all is a community?	什么是社区?
41	Bentham asks.	本答问.
42	It's the sum of the individuals who comprise it.	是组成它的个体的总和.
43	And that's why in deciding the best policy, in deciding	这就是为什么在决定最好的政策, 在决定
44	what the law should be, in deciding what's just, citizens	法律应该是什么, 在决定什么是正义,公民
45	and legislators should ask themselves the question, if we add	立法者应该问自己一个问题如果我们加上
46	up all of the benefits of this policy and subtract	增加这项政策的所有好处,并减去
47	all of the costs, the right thing to do	所有的代价,正确的做法
48	is the one that maximizes the balance	是使平衡最大化的
49	of happiness over suffering.	快乐战胜苦难
50	That's what it means	这就是它的意思
51	to maximize utility.	最大限度地发挥效用。
52	Now today, I want to	现在,我想
53	see whether you agree or disagree with it.	看你同意还是不同意
54	And it often goes, this utilitarian logic, under the name of cost benefit	这种实用主义的逻辑常常以成本效益为名
55	analysis, which is used by companies and by	分析,供公司使用
56	governments all the time.	政府总是这样
57	And what it involves	和它涉及
58	is placing a value, usually a dollar value, to stand	正在放置一个值,通常是美元值,以维持
59	for utility on the costs and the benefits	成本和效益的效用
60	of various proposals.	各种建议。
61	Recently in the Czech Republic	最近在捷克共和国
62	there was a proposal to increase the excise tax	有人建议增加消费税
63	on smoking.	在吸烟。
64	Philip Morris,烟草公司
65	does huge business in the Czech Republic.	在捷克共和国做大生意。
66	They commissioned	他们委托
67	a study, a cost benefit analysis of	研究、成本效益分析
68	smoking in the Czech Republic.	在捷克共和国吸烟。
69	And what their cost benefit	他们的成本效益是什么?
70	analysis found was	分析发现
71	the government gains by having	政府通过获得
72	Czech citizens smoke.	捷克公民抽烟.
73	Now, how do they gain?	现在,他们有什么好处?
74	It's true that there are negative effects	确实有负面效应
75	to the public finance of the Czech government	捷克政府的公共财政
76	because there are increased health care costs for people who develop	因为发展的人的保健费用增加
77	smoking related diseases.	与吸烟有关的疾病。
78	On the other hand, there were	另一方面,还有
79	positive effects.	积极效果。
80	And those were added up	这些是加起来的
81	on the other side of the ledger.	在分类账的另一边。
82	The positive effects included, for the	积极效果包括:
83	most part, various tax revenues that the government	大部分是政府的各种税收
84	derives from the sale of cigarette products, but it also included health care	源自香烟产品的销售,但也包括保健
85	savings to the government when people die early, pension	当人们早死时,养老金给政府的储蓄
86	savings, you don't have to pay pensions for as long, and also	储蓄,你不必支付养老金长久,还有
87	savings in housing costs for the elderly.	老年人住房费用的节省。
88	And	还有
89	when all of the costs and benefits were added up, the	当所有成本和效益加起来时,
90	Philip Morris study found that	菲利普·莫里斯的研究发现
91	there is a net public finance gain in the Czech Republic	捷克共和国的公共财政净收益
92	of $147 million.	1.47亿美元。
93	And given the savings in housing and health care	而且考虑到在住房和医疗方面的节省
94	and pension costs, the government enjoys a saving of	养恤金和养老金费用,
95	savings of over $1200 for each	每笔节余1 200美元以上
96	person who dies prematurely due to smoking.	因吸烟而过早死亡的人。
97	Cost benefit analysis.	成本效益分析。
98	Now, those among you	现在,你们中的那些
99	who are defenders of utilitarianism may think that this is an unfair	作为功利主义的捍卫者,他们可能认为这是不公平的。
100	test.	测试。
101	Philip Morris被媒体打得头晕眼花
102	issued an apology for this heartless calculation.	为这个无情的计算结果道歉
103	You may say that what's missing here is something that the utilitarian	你可以说这里缺少的是功利主义者的东西
104	can easily incorporate, namely, the value to the	很容易纳入,即:
105	person and to the families of those who die from lung cancer.	以及死于肺癌者的家人。
106	What about the value of life?	那生命的价值呢?
107	Some cost benefit	一些成本效益
108	analyses incorporate a measure	分析包括一项措施
109	for the value of life.	为了生命的价值。
110	One of the most famous of these	其中最著名的一个
111	involved the Ford Pinto case.	和福特·平托的案子有关
112	Did any of you read about that?	你们有看过吗?
113	This	这个
114	was back in the 1970s.	回到1970年代。
115	Do you remember what the Ford Pinto was, a kind of	你还记得福特平托是什么吗?
116	car?	车?
117	Anybody?	有人吗?
118	It was a small car, a sub	是个小车,潜水艇
119	compact car, very popular.	紧凑的车非常受欢迎
120	But it had one	但它有一个
121	problem, which is the fuel tank was at the back of the car	问题在于燃料箱在车尾
122	and in rear collisions the fuel tank exploded.	燃料箱在后方碰撞中爆炸
123	And some people were killed and some severely injured	有些人被杀,有些人受重伤
124	victims of these injuries took Ford to court to sue.	这些伤害的受害者将福特告上法庭。
125	And in the court case it turned out that Ford had	在法庭上,发现福特...
126	long since known about the vulnerable fuel	很久没有知道易燃燃料了
127	tank and had done a cost benefit analysis to determine	并进行了成本效益分析,以确定
128	whether it would be worth it to put in a special	要不要放个特别的?
129	shield that would protect the fuel tank and prevent it from exploding.	保护燃料箱并防止其爆炸的防护罩。
130	They did a cost benefit analysis, the cost	他们做了成本效益分析,成本
131	per part to increase the safety of the Pinto	提高平托号的安全性
132	they calculated at $11 per part.	它们按每部分11美元计算。
133	And here's, this was the cost benefit analysis	这是成本效益分析
134	that emerged in the trial.	在审判中出现。
135	$11 per part	每部分11美元
136	at 12.5 million cars and trucks	1 250万辆汽车和卡车
137	came to a total cost of $137	总费用为137美元
138	million to improve the safety.	百万来改善安全
139	But then they calculated the benefits of spending	但后来他们计算出支出的好处
140	all this money on a safer car and they counted	这些钱都用在更安全的车上他们算了
141	180 deaths and they assigned a dollar value.	180人死亡他们给了一美元价值
142	$200,000 per death.	每死20万块
143	180 injuries	180人受伤
144	$67,000 and then the cost	67,000美元,然后是费用
145	to repair, the replacement cost for 2,000 vehicles that would be destroyed	2 000辆将销毁的车辆的更换费用
146	without the safety device, $700 per	没有安全装置,每台700美元
147	vehicle.	车辆。
148	So the benefits turned out to be	原来好处是
149	only $49.5 million and so they	只有4 950万美元,所以他们
150	didn't install the device.	没有安装设备。
151	Needless to say	不用说
152	when this memo of the Ford	当这份福特人的备忘录
153	motor company's cost benefit analysis came out in the trial	机车公司的成本效益分析在试验中出来了
154	it appalled the jurors who awarded a huge settlement.	它震惊了陪审员谁授予一个巨大的和解。
155	Is this a counter example to the utilitarian idea of	这是与功利主义思想相反的一个例子吗?
156	calculating?	计算?
157	Because Ford included a measure	因为福特包含一个措施
158	of the value of life.	生命的价值。
159	Now who here wants to defend	现在,谁想在这里辩护
160	cost benefit analysis from	成本效益分析
161	this apparent counter example?	这个明显的反例?
162	Who has a defense?	谁有辩护权?
163	Or do you think this completely destroys the whole utilitarian	或者你认为这完全摧毁了整个功利主义者
164	calculus?	算术?
165	Yes?	是吗?
166	Well I think that once	我曾经觉得
167	again they've made the same mistake the previous case did, that they assigned a dollar value	他们犯了同样的错误之前的案子, 他们分配了一个美元价值
168	to human life and once again they failed to take account things like suffering	人类的生命,他们再次没有考虑诸如痛苦
169	and emotional losses by the families.	和家人的感情损失。
170	I mean families lost earnings but they	我的意思是,家庭失去了收入,但他们
171	also lost a loved one and that is more value than	也失去了一个爱人这比
172	$200,000.	20万美元。
173	Right and wait, wait, wait.	右等经.
174	That's good.	这是很好的。
175	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
176	Julia Roto.	朱莉娅·罗托.
177	So if 200,000 Julie is	所以,如果20万朱莉是
178	too low a figure because it doesn't include the loss of a loved	数字太低因为它不包括失去亲人
179	one and the loss of those years of life, what would be	以及那些生命的丧失将会是什么
180	what do you think would be a more accurate number?	你觉得更准确的数字是什么?
181	I don't believe I could give a number.	我不相信我能给出一个数字。
182	I think that this sort of analysis shouldn't be	我认为这种分析不应该是
183	applied to issues of human life.	适用于人的生命问题。
184	I think it can't be used monetarily.	我认为它不能被金钱使用。
185	So they didn't just put too low a number, Julie says,	所以他们不只是把数字放太低,朱莉说,
186	they were wrong to try to put any number at all.	他们把任何号码都放错
187	Alright let's	好吧,让我们
188	hear someone who you have to adjust for inflation.	听到有人谁你必须调整通货膨胀。
189	Fair	公平
190	enough.	够了。
191	So what would the number be now?	号码是多少?
192	This was 30	这是30
193	this was 35 years ago.	这是35年前。
194	$2,000,000.	两百万
195	You would put $2,000,000 and what's your name?	你会加200,000美元,你叫什么名字?
196	Wojtek says	沃伊特克说
197	we have to allow for inflation.	我们必须允许通货膨胀。
198	We should be more generous.	我们应该更加慷慨
199	Then would you be satisfied that this is the right way of thinking about the question?	那你会满意吗? 这是思考这个问题的正确方式?
200	I guess unfortunately it is for	我想这是很不幸的
201	there needs to be a number put somewhere.	一定有个数字
202	Like	喜欢
203	I'm not sure what that number would be but I do agree that there could possibly	我不确定那号码会是多少但我确实同意有可能
204	be a number put on human life.	成为人的生命中的一个数字。
205	Alright	罢
206	so Wojtek says and here he disagrees with	所以Wojtek说他不同意
207	Julie.	朱丽
208	Julie says we can't put a number on human life	Julie说我们不能把数字写在人的生命上
209	for the purpose of a cost benefit analysis.	为了成本效益分析的目的。
210	Wojtek says we have to because	Wojtek说我们必须这么做因为
211	we have to make decisions somehow.	我们必须做决定
212	What do other people	别人怎么办?
213	think about this?	考虑一下?
214	Is there anyone prepared to defend cost benefit analysis	有没有人愿意为成本效益分析辩护
215	here?	这里?
216	As accurate?	准确吗?
217	As desirable?	需要吗?
218	Yes?	是吗?
219	Go ahead.	来吧。
220	I think that if Ford and other car companies didn't use	我想如果福特和其他汽车公司不使用
221	cost benefit analysis they'd eventually go out of business because they wouldn't	成本效益分析他们最终会退出业务,因为他们不会
222	be able to be profitable and millions of people wouldn't be able to use their cars to get	能够赚钱数百万人无法使用他们的车去获得
223	the jobs to put food on the table to feed their children.	将食物放在桌上喂养孩子的工作。
224	So I think that	所以我觉得
225	if cost benefit analysis isn't employed the greater good	如果成本效益分析没有应用最大的好处
226	is sacrificed in this case.	被牺牲在这种情况下。
227	Alright let me, what's	好吧,让我,是什么
228	your name?	你的名字吗?
229	Raoul.	拉乌尔
230	There was recently a study	最近有个研究
231	done about cell phone use by drivers when people are driving a car	司机开车时用手机的事
232	and there's a debate whether that should be banned.	讨论是否应该禁止
233	And the figure was that some two thousand	数字是大约两千
234	people die as a result of accidents	事故造成人员死亡
235	each year using cell phones.	每年使用手机。
236	And yet the cost benefit analysis which was done by the center for	然而,中心为下列目的进行的成本效益分析:
237	risk analysis at Harvard found that if you look at the benefits	哈佛大学的风险分析发现,如果你看看好处
238	of the cell phone use and you put some	手机用量,你放点
239	value on the life it comes out about the same	在生命中的价值,它出来大约相同的
240	because of the enormous economic benefit of enabling people to take advantage of	因为使人们能够利用
241	their time not waste time, be able to make deals and talk to friends and so on	他们的时间不浪费时间, 能够做交易和朋友交谈等等
242	while they're driving.	他们开车的时候
243	Doesn't that suggest that it's a mistake	这不表明这是个错误吗?
244	to try to put monetary figures on questions of human life?	试图把金钱数字对人类生活的问题?
245	Well I think that if the great majority of people	我想如果大多数人
246	try to derive maximum utility out of a service like using cell phones	尝试从服务中获取最大功能, 如使用手机
247	and the convenience that cell phones provide that sacrifice is necessary	而手机提供的方便牺牲是必要的
248	for satisfaction to occur.	以达到满意。
249	You're an outright utilitarian.	你是个纯粹的功利主义者
250	Alright then one last question Raoul.	好吧,那么最后一个问题拉乌尔。
251	我把这个给Voightek。
252	What dollar	什么钱
253	figure should be put on human life to decide whether to ban the use	数字应放在人的生命上,以决定是否禁止使用
254	of cell phones?	手机吗?
255	Well I don't want to arbitrarily	好吧,我不想任意
256	calculate a figure I mean right now I think that	计算一个数字,我的意思现在,我认为
257	You want to take it under advisement?	你想接受建议吗?
258	Yeah I'll take it under advisement.	是啊,我会接受它的建议。
259	But what roughly speaking would it be?	但是说来话长会是什么?
260	You've got	你已经有了
261	23 hundred deaths.	2300人丧生.
262	You've got to assign a dollar value to know whether you want to	你必须要分配一个美元价值才能知道是否想要
263	prevent those deaths by banning the use of cell phones in cars.	通过禁止在汽车中使用手机来防止这些死亡。
264	So what would your hunch be?	那你的直觉是什么?
265	How much?	多少钱?
266	A million?	一百万吗?
267	Two million?	两百万?
268	两百万是Voightek的数字。
269	Is that about right?	是吗?
270	Maybe a million.	也许一百万。
271	A million?	一百万吗?
272	You know that's good thank you.	谢谢
273	So these are some of the controversies that arise these days from cost benefit	所以这些是最近一些由成本收益引起的争议
274	analysis especially those that involve placing a dollar value	分析,特别是涉及美元价值的分析
275	on everything to be added up.	关于所有要加起来。
276	Well now I want to	现在我想
277	turn to your objections.	转向你的反对。
278	To your objections not necessarily	对你的反对并不一定
279	to cost benefit analysis specifically because that's just one	特别是成本效益分析因为这只是一个
280	version of the utilitarian logic in practice today.	今天实用主义逻辑的版本。
281	But to the theory as a whole, to the idea	但对于整个理论,对于思想
282	that the right thing to do, the just	做正确的事情,正义
283	basis for policy and law is to maximize utility.	政策和法律的基础是最大限度地发挥效用。
284	How many disagree with the utilitarian	有多少人不同意功利主义者的意见
285	approach to law and to the common	A. 对法律和普遍人权的
286	good?	怎么样?
287	How many agree with it?	有多少人同意这个说法?
288	So more agree than	所以,更多的同意比
289	disagree.	意见不一。
290	So let's hear from the critics.	因此,让我们听听批评者。
291	Yes?	是吗?
292	My main issue with it is that I feel like you can't say	我的主要问题是我觉得你不能说
293	that just because someone's in the minority, what they want	那只是因为某人在少数, 他们想要什么
294	and need is less valuable than someone who's in the majority.	需要的价值比多数人少
295	So I guess I have an issue with the idea that the greatest good for the greatest	所以,我想我有一个问题的想法是,最大的好为最
296	number is okay because there's still, what about people	号码是好的,因为还有人, 那人呢?
297	who are in the lesser number, like it's not fair to them, they didn't have	人数较少,好像对他们不公平他们没有
298	any say in where they wanted to be.	随便说说他们想去哪儿
299	That's an interesting objection.	这是一个有趣的反对。
300	You're worried about the effect on the minority.	你担心对少数民族的影响
301	What's your name	你叫什么来着?
302	by the way?	顺便说一句?
303	Anna.	安娜,请问安娜
304	Who has an answer to	谁有答案
305	Anna's worry about the effect on the minority?	安娜担心对少数民族的影响?
306	What do you say to Anna?	你怎么跟安娜说?
307	She said that the minorities value less.	她说,少数群体的价值较低。
308	I don't think	我不觉得
309	that's the case because individually the minorities value is just the same as	之所以如此,是因为个人的少数民族价值与
310	the individual of the majority.	多数人的个人。
311	It's just that the numbers outweigh the	只是数字超过了
312	minority.	少数民族。
313	And I mean at a certain point you have	我的意思是,在某个时刻,你有
314	to make a decision and I'm sorry for the minority but sometimes	做决定,我很抱歉少数但有时
315	it's for the general, for the greater good.	为了将军,为了大局
316	For the greater good.	为大利益.
317	Anna, what's your name?	安娜,你叫什么来着?
318	Youngda.	杨达.
319	What do you say to	你怎么说
320	Youngda?	杨达?
321	Youngda says you just have to add up people's preferences	杨达说,你只需要把人们的喜好加起来
322	and those in the minority do have their preferences weighed.	少数群体的偏好确实得到了考虑。
323	Can you	你能吗?
324	give an example of the kind of thing you're worried about when you say you're worried about	举个例子,你担心什么?
325	utilitarianism violating the concern or respect	违反关切或尊重的功利主义
326	due the minority?	是少数派吗?
327	Can you give an example?	你能举个例子吗?
328	Well with any of the cases that we've talked about, like for the shipwreck one,	任何我们讨论过的案子比如沉船案
329	I think the boy who was eaten still had	我觉得那个被吃掉的男孩
330	as much of a right to live as the other people and	和别人一样有生存的权利
331	just because he was	只是因为他是
332	the minority in that case, the one who	在这种情况下,少数人,谁
333	maybe had less of a chance to keep living, that doesn't mean	可能没有多少机会活下去, 这并不意味着
334	that the others automatically have a right to eat him	其他人当然有权吃他
335	just because it would give a greater amount of people a chance to	因为它会给更多的人机会
336	live.	活着
337	So there may be certain rights that the minority	因此,可能有一些权利少数
338	members have, that the individual has, that shouldn't be	成员, 个人, 这不应该是
339	traded off for the sake of utility?	为了实用而交换?
340	Yes, Anna?	什么事,安娜吗?
341	Youngda, this would be a test	永田,这是个考验
342	for you.	给你的
343	Back in ancient Rome, they	回到古罗马,他们
344	threw Christians to the lions in the Colosseum for sport.	将基督徒扔到教堂里的狮子那里去参加运动。
345	If you think how the utilitarian calculus would go, yes,	如果你认为功用微积分会怎样,是的,
346	the Christian thrown to the lions suffers enormous excruciating	被扔到狮子身上的基督徒遭受了巨大的痛苦
347	pain.	伤痛。
348	But look at the collective ecstasy of the Romans!	但看看罗马人的集体狂喜!
349	Youngda?	杨达?
350	Well, in that	那个嘛
351	time, in modern day time,	在现代时代
352	to value, to give a number to the happiness	给一个数字给幸福
353	given to the people watching, I don't think	给观众看,我不认为
354	any policy maker would say	任何决策者都会说
355	the suffering of one person is much, much	一个人的痛苦是很多,很多
356	in comparison to the happiness gained.	与获得的幸福相比
357	No, but you have to	不,但你必须
358	admit that if there were enough Romans delirious enough with happiness,	承认如果有足够的罗马人精神错乱和幸福
359	it would outweigh even the most excruciating pain of a handful	它会超过最痛苦即使是一小撮人
360	of Christians thrown to the lion.	被扔在狮子身上的基督徒
361	So we really have	所以我们真的有
362	here two different objections to utilitarianism.	这里有两个不同的反对功利主义。
363	One has to do with whether utilitarianism adequately	功利主义是否充分
364	respects individual rights or minority	尊重个人权利或少数群体
365	rights, and the other has to do with the whole	权利,另一个则与整体有关
366	idea of aggregating utility	集合工具的想法
367	or preferences or values.	或偏好或价值。
368	Is it	是吗?
369	possible to aggregate all values to translate	可能合并所有值以翻译
370	them into dollar terms?	以美元计价?
371	There was	曾经
372	in the 1930s a psychologist	在1930年代心理学家
373	who tried to address	试图解决
374	this second question.	这个第二个问题。
375	He tried to prove what utilitarianism	他试图证明什么是功利主义
376	assumes that it is possible	假设这是可能的
377	to translate all goods, all values, all human	翻译所有商品,所有价值,所有人类
378	concerns into a single uniform measure.	将关切纳入一项统一措施。
379	And he did	他这样做了
380	this by conducting a survey of young recipients	通过对年轻受助人进行调查,
381	of relief.	解脱。
382	This was in the 1930s.	这是在1930年代。
383	And he asked	他问
384	them, he gave them a list of unpleasant experiences.	他们,他给他们一份不愉快的经历清单。
385	And he	还有他
386	asked them, how much would you have to be paid to undergo the following	问他们,你要付多少钱才能完成以下任务
387	experiences?	经历?
388	And he kept track.	他一直追踪着
389	For example,	举例来说,

该视频共有字幕 390 条。解锁更多字幕为会员功能，请移动到价格

P4 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p04 3. 3.选择的自由 (P4)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p04 3. 3.选择的自由 (P4)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 55:08

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
0:07	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
0:30	We were looking at John Stuart Mill's attempt to reply to the critics of Bentham's utilitarianism.	我们在看约翰·斯图尔特·米尔试图回应对本塔姆功利主义的批评.
0:48	In his book, Utilitarianism, Mill tries to show that, critics to the contrary,	米尔在他的著作"乌蒂利塔主义"中试图表明,相反的批评者们,
0:55	it is possible, within the utilitarian framework, to distinguish between higher and lower pleasures.	在功利主义框架内,可以区分上下游乐.
1:03	It is possible to make qualitative distinctions of worth.	可以作出价值的定性区分。
1:07	And we tested that idea with the Simpsons and the Shakespeare excerpts.	我们用辛普森夫妇和莎士比亚节选来测试这个想法。
1:16	And the results of our experiment seem to call into question Mill's distinction.	我们实验的结果似乎让人怀疑米尔的区别
1:26	Because a great many of you reported that you prefer the Simpsons,	因为很多人都报告说你喜欢辛普森一家
1:34	but that you still consider Shakespeare to be the higher or the worthier pleasure.	但你仍然认为莎士比亚是更高或更有价值的快乐。

展开字幕全文（735 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
2	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。
3	We were looking at John Stuart Mill's attempt to reply to the critics of Bentham's utilitarianism.	我们在看约翰·斯图尔特·米尔试图回应对本塔姆功利主义的批评.
4	In his book, Utilitarianism, Mill tries to show that, critics to the contrary,	米尔在他的著作"乌蒂利塔主义"中试图表明,相反的批评者们,
5	it is possible, within the utilitarian framework, to distinguish between higher and lower pleasures.	在功利主义框架内,可以区分上下游乐.
6	It is possible to make qualitative distinctions of worth.	可以作出价值的定性区分。
7	And we tested that idea with the Simpsons and the Shakespeare excerpts.	我们用辛普森夫妇和莎士比亚节选来测试这个想法。
8	And the results of our experiment seem to call into question Mill's distinction.	我们实验的结果似乎让人怀疑米尔的区别
9	Because a great many of you reported that you prefer the Simpsons,	因为很多人都报告说你喜欢辛普森一家
10	but that you still consider Shakespeare to be the higher or the worthier pleasure.	但你仍然认为莎士比亚是更高或更有价值的快乐。
11	That's the dilemma with which our experiment confronts Mill.	我们的实验正面临这种困境
12	So, what about Mill's attempt to account for the specially weighty character of individual rights and justice	那么,关于米尔试图说明个人权利和正义的特殊重要性
13	in Chapter 5 of Utilitarianism?	在"乌蒂利亚主义"第5章中?
14	He wants to say that individual rights are worthy of special respect.	他想说,个人权利值得特别尊重。
15	In fact, he goes so far as to say that justice is the most sacred part	事实上,他甚至说正义是最神圣的部分
16	and the most incomparably binding part of morality.	以及道德中最无法比拟的部分
17	But the same challenge could be put to this part of Mill's defense.	但同样的挑战也可能是米尔的辩护
18	Why is justice the chief part in the most binding part of all morality?	为什么正义是所有道德中最有约束力的部分的主要部分?
19	Well, he says because in the long run, if we do justice and if we respect rights,	他说,因为从长远来看, 如果我们做正义,如果我们尊重权利,
20	society as a whole will be better off in the long run.	从长远来看,整个社会会更好。
21	Well, what about that?	那怎么样?
22	What if we have a case where making an exception and violating individual rights	如果我们有破例侵犯个人权利
23	actually will make people better off in the long run?	实际上,从长远来看,会让别人好过点?
24	Is it all right then to use people?	那用人可以吗?
25	And there's a further objection that could be raised against Mill's case for justice and rights.	并且还有人可以反对米尔的正义和权利诉讼.
26	Suppose the utilitarian calculus in the long run works out as he says it will,	假设功利分子的微积分长期来说是可行的
27	such that respecting people's rights is a way of making everybody better off in the long run.	因此,从长远来看,尊重人民的权利是改善所有人生活的一种方式。
28	Is that the right reason?	这是正确的理由吗?
29	Is that the only reason to respect people?	这是尊重人的唯一理由吗?
30	If the doctor goes in and yanks the organs from the healthy patient who came in for a checkup to save five lives,	如果医生进去抽取健康病人的器官来做个检查挽救五条生命
31	there would be adverse effects in the long run.	从长远来看,将会产生不利影响。
32	Eventually, people would learn about this and would stop going in for checkups.	最终,人们会知道这一点并停止去检查。
33	Is it the right reason?	这是正确的理由吗?
34	Is the only reason that you as the doctor won't yank the organs out of the healthy patient	唯一的原因就是你作为医生不会把器官从健康的病人身上拔出来
35	that you think, well, if I use him in this way, in the long run, more lives will be lost?	你觉得,如果我用他的方式, 从长远来看, 会有更多的人丧生?
36	Or is there another reason having to do with intrinsic respect for the person as an individual?	或是否有另一个理由与个人固有的尊重有关?
37	And if that reason matters, then it's not so clear that even Mill's utilitarianism can take account of it.	如果这个原因很重要,那就不那么清楚,即使米尔的功利主义也能考虑它.
38	Fully to examine these two worries or objections to Mill's defense, we need to push further.	要充分审视这两个担心或反对米尔的辩护,我们需要进一步推进.
39	And we need to ask, in the case of higher or worthier pleasures,	我们需要问, 对于更高或更值得的乐趣,
40	are there theories of the good life that can provide independent moral standards for the worth of pleasures?	有没有关于美好生活的理论可以为快乐的价值提供独立的道德标准?
41	If so, what do they look like?	如果是的话,它们长什么样?
42	That's one question.	这是一个问题。
43	In the case of justice and rights, if we suspect that Mill is implicitly leaning on notions of human dignity	就正义和权利而言,如果我们怀疑米尔含蓄地倾向于人类尊严的概念
44	or respect for a person that are not, strictly speaking, utilitarian,	或尊重严格说来不是实用主义者的人,
45	we need to look to see whether there are some stronger theories of rights that can explain the intuition,	我们需要看看是否有更强大的权利理论可以解释直觉,
46	which even Mill shares, the intuition that the reason for respecting individuals and not using them	连米尔都认同的直觉就是尊重个人而不利用个人的原因
47	goes beyond even utility in the long run.	从长远来看,甚至超出了效用。
48	Today we turn to one of those strong theories of rights.	今天,我们谈谈这些强有力的权利理论之一。
49	Strong theories of rights say individuals matter not just as instruments to be used for a larger social purpose	强有力的权利理论说,个人不仅仅是用于更大社会目的的工具。
50	or for the sake of maximizing utility.	或为尽功用故.
51	Individuals are separate beings with separate lives worthy of respect.	个人是不同的人,有不同的生活值得尊重。
52	And so it's a mistake, according to strong theories of rights,	因此,根据强有力的权利理论,这是一个错误,
53	it's a mistake to think about justice or law by just adding up preferences and values.	仅仅把偏好和价值观加起来,来考虑正义或法律,是错的.
54	The strong rights theory we turn to today is libertarianism.	我们今天转向的强烈的权利理论是自由主义.
55	Libertarianism takes individual rights seriously.	自由主义严肃对待个人权利.
56	It's called libertarianism because it says the fundamental individual right is the right to liberty.	这被称为自由主义,因为它说基本的个人权利是自由的权利.
57	Precisely because we are separate individual beings,	正是因为我们是不同的个体
58	we're not available to any use that the society might desire or devise.	我们无法利用社会想要或设计的用途
59	Precisely because we are individual separate human beings,	正是因为我们是单独分开的人
60	we have a fundamental right to liberty.	我们享有自由的基本权利。
61	And that means a right to choose freely, to live our lives as we please,	也就是说,我们有权自由选择, 自由地生活,
62	provided we respect other people's rights to do the same.	只要我们尊重其他人同样的权利
63	That's the fundamental idea.	这就是基本的想法。
64	Robert Nozick, one of the libertarian philosophers we read for this course, puts it this way.	罗伯特·诺兹克(Robert Nozick),我们为这个课程读过的自由主义哲学家之一,这样说.
65	Individuals have rights, so strong and far-reaching are these rights	个人拥有权利,这些权利如此强大和深远
66	that they raise the question of what, if anything, the state may do.	他们提出了一个问题,如果有什么,国家可以做什么。
67	So what does libertarianism say about the role of government or of the state?	自由主义对政府或国家的作用有何看法?
68	Well, there are three things that most modern states do	现代国家有三件事要做
69	that, on the libertarian theory of rights, are illegitimate, are unjust.	根据自由主义的权利理论,是非法的,是不公正的。
70	One of them is paternalist legislation.	其中之一是家长立法。
71	That's passing laws that protect people from themselves.	也就是通过法律来保护人们不受伤害.
72	Seatbelt laws, for example, or motorcycle helmet laws.	例如,安全带法或摩托车头盔法。
73	The libertarian says it may be a good thing if people wear seatbelts,	自由主义者说如果人们戴安全带也许是件好事
74	but that should be up to them and the state, the government,	但这应该取决于他们和州,政府,
75	has no business coercing them, us, to wear seatbelts by law.	我们没有生意强迫他们依法系安全带
76	It's coercion.	这是强迫。
77	So no paternalist legislation, number one.	所以没有家长立法,第一。
78	Number two, no morals legislation.	第二,没有道德立法。
79	Many laws try to promote the virtue of citizens	许多法律试图促进公民的美德
80	or try to give expression to the moral values of the society as a whole.	或试图表达整个社会的道德价值。
81	Libertarians say that's also a violation of the right to liberty.	自由主义者说这也侵犯了自由权.
82	Take the example of, well, a classic example of legislation	举一个典型的立法例子
83	offered in the name of promoting morality.	以提倡道德的名义提供。
84	Traditionally have been laws that prevent sexual intimacy between gays and lesbians.	传统上是防止男同性恋者与女同性恋者发生性关系的法律.
85	The libertarian says nobody else is harmed, nobody else's rights are violated,	自由主义者说没有人受到伤害没有人的权利受到侵犯
86	so the state should get out of the business entirely	所以国家应该完全退出
87	of trying to promote virtue or to enact morals legislation.	试图促进美德或颁布道德立法。
88	And the third kind of law or policy that is ruled out on the libertarian philosophy	在自由主义哲学上被排除的第三种法律或政策
89	is any taxation or other policy that serves the purpose	* 任何税务政策或其他政策符合目的;
90	of redistributing income or wealth from the rich to the poor.	将收入或财富从富人再分配给穷人。
91	Redistribution, if you think about it, says the libertarian, is a kind of coercion.	重新分配,如果你考虑它, 说自由主义者,是一种强迫。
92	What it amounts to is theft by the state or by the majority,	国家或大多数人的盗窃行为,
93	if we're talking about a democracy, from people who happen to do very well and earn a lot of money.	如果我们在谈论一个民主, 从那些碰巧做得很好,赚了很多钱的人。
94	Now, Nozick and other libertarians allow that there can be a minimal state	现在,诺兹克和其他自由主义者允许有一个最低限度的状态
95	that taxes people for the sake of what everybody needs,	为了每个人都需要的东西向人们征税
96	the national defense, police force, judicial system to enforce contracts and property rights, but that's it.	国防警力司法体系执行合同和财产权但就是这样
97	Now, I want to get your reactions to this third feature of the libertarian view.	现在,我想得到你对自由主义观点的第三个特征的反应。
98	I want to see who among you agree with that idea and who disagree and why.	我想看看你们中间谁同意这个想法,谁不同意,为什么。
99	But just to make it concrete and to see what's at stake,	但为了让事情变得具体并且看看有什么关系
100	consider the distribution of wealth in the United States.	考虑美国的财富分配。
101	The United States is among the most inegalitarian societies	美国是最无产阶级社会之一
102	as far as the distribution of wealth of all the advanced democracies.	就所有先进民主国家的财富分配而言。
103	Now, is this just or unjust?	现在,这是正义还是不公正?
104	Well, what does the libertarian say?	自由主义者怎么说?
105	The libertarian says you can't know just from the facts I've just given you.	自由主义者说,你不能仅仅从我给你的事实中知道。
106	You can't know whether that distribution is just or unjust.	你不可能知道分配是公正还是不公正的。
107	You can't know just by looking at a pattern or a distribution or a result,	你无法仅仅通过看一个图案分布或结果,
108	whether it's just or unjust.	无论是公正还是不公正
109	You have to know how it came to be.	你必须知道它是如何来的。
110	You can't just look at the end state or the result.	不能只看结局状态或结果.
111	You have to look at two principles.	得观二法.
112	The first he calls justice in acquisition or in initial holdings.	首先,他称正义在获取或最初拥有。
113	And what that means simply is,	也就是说,
114	did people get the things they used to make their money fairly?	人们是否得到了他们用来赚钱的东西?
115	So we need to know, was there justice in the initial holdings?	所以我们要知道最初的控股是否公正?
116	Did they steal the land or the factory or the goods	他们偷了土地、工厂或货物
117	that enabled them to make all that money?	让他们赚了那么多钱?
118	If not, if they were entitled to whatever it was	如果没有的话,如果他们有权获得什么
119	that enabled them to gather the wealth,	以便他们聚积财产,
120	the first principle is met.	第一条原则得到满足。
121	The second principle is, did the distribution arise	第二项原则是,是否出现分配
122	from the operation of free consent?	自由同意行动?
123	People buying and trading on the market.	人民群众在市场上购买和交易.
124	As you can see, the libertarian idea of justice	如你所见,自由主义的正义思想
125	corresponds to a free market conception of justice.	符合自由市场司法概念。
126	Provided people got what they used fairly, didn't steal it,	只要人们得到他们公平使用的东西, 没有偷它,
127	and provided the distribution results from the free choice of individuals	如果分配是个人自由选择的结果
128	buying and selling things, the distribution is just.	买卖东西,分配是公正的。
129	And if not, it's unjust.	然若无,则不公也.
130	So let's, in order to fix ideas for this discussion,	所以,为了为这次讨论确定想法,
131	take an actual example.	举个实际例子。
132	Who's the wealthiest person in the United States?	美国最富有的人是谁?
133	Wealthiest person in the world?	世界上最有钱的人?
134	Bill Gates.	比尔盖茨。
135	It is.	没错
136	That's right.	没错
137	Here he is.	他来了
138	You'd be happy too.	你也会高兴的
139	Now, what's his net worth?	现在,他的净值多少?
140	Anybody have any idea?	有人知道吗?
141	That's a big number.	这是一个很大的数字。
142	During the Clinton years, remember there was a controversy?	在克林顿的岁月里,还记得有争论吗?
143	Donors, big campaign contributors, were invited to stay overnight	捐助者、大型运动捐助者应邀过夜
144	in the Lincoln bedroom at the White House.	在林肯卧室在白宫。
145	I think if you contributed $25,000 or above,	我认为如果你捐了25,000美元或更多
146	someone figured out at the median contribution	有人在中位数中发现了
147	that got you invited to stay a night in the Lincoln bedroom,	让你在林肯卧室呆一晚
148	Bill Gates could afford to stay in the Lincoln bedroom every night	比尔·盖茨每晚都能住在林肯卧室
149	for the next 66,000 years.	接下来的66,000年。
150	Somebody else figured out how much does he get paid on an hourly basis.	别人知道他每小时挣多少钱
151	And so they figured out since he began Microsoft,	所以他们想通了自从他开始微软,
152	suppose he worked, what, 14 hours per day.	假设他每天工作14小时
153	Reasonable guess.	合理猜测.
154	And you calculate this net wealth,	你计算这种财富,
155	it turns out that his rate of pay	结果发现他的薪水
156	is over $150, not per hour, not per minute.	超过150美元,不是每小时,不是一分钟。
157	$150, more than $150 per second.	150元,每秒超过150元.
158	Which means that if on his way to the office,	这意味着如果他在去办公室的路上
159	Gates noticed a $100 bill on the street,	盖茨注意到街上有100美元的帐单
160	it wouldn't be worth his time to stop and pick it up.	不值得他停下来捡起来
161	Now, most of you will say, someone that wealthy,	现在,你们大多数人会说,一个有钱的人,
162	surely we can tax them to meet the pressing needs	我们当然可以收税,满足迫切的需要
163	of people who lack an education or lack enough to eat or lack decent housing.	缺乏教育或缺乏足够食物或缺乏体面住房的人。
164	They need it more than he does.	他们比他更需要这个
165	And if he were a utilitarian, what would you do?	如果他是功利主义者你会怎么做?
166	What tax policy would you have?	你会有什么税收政策?
167	You'd redistribute in a flash, wouldn't you?	你会一瞬间重新分配,不是吗?
168	Because you would know, being a good utilitarian,	因为你会知道,作为一个好的功利主义者,
169	that taking some, a small amount, he's scarcely going to notice it.	他很少会注意到的
170	But it will make a huge improvement in the lives	但它会大大改善生活
171	and in the welfare of those at the bottom.	和下层人的福利。
172	But remember, the libertarian theory says,	但记住,自由主义理论说,
173	we can't just add up and aggregate preferences and satisfactions.	我们不能把喜好和满意加起来
174	That way, we have to respect persons.	这样,我们必须尊重人。
175	And if he earned that money fairly,	如果他能公平赚到钱
176	without violating anybody else's rights,	不侵犯任何人的权利,
177	in accordance with the two principles of justice in acquisition	根据获得公正的两项原则
178	and justice in transfer, then it would be wrong.	和正义的转移, 那么这将是错误的。
179	It would be a form of coercion to take it away.	把它带走是一种胁迫。
180	Michael Jordan is not as wealthy as Bill Gates.	迈克尔·乔丹没有比尔·盖茨那么富有.
181	But he did pretty well for himself.	但是他表现得很好
182	You want to see Michael Jordan?	你想见迈克尔・乔丹吗?
183	There he is.	他来了
184	His income alone, in one year, was $31 million.	仅他一年的收入就有3 100万美元。
185	And then he made another $47 million in endorsements	然后他又做了4700万的背书
186	for Nike and other companies.	给耐克公司和其他公司
187	So his income was, in one year, $78 million.	所以,他的收入,在一年,7800万美元。
188	To require him to pay, let's say, a third of his earnings	要求他支付他三分之一的收入
189	to the government to support good causes,	政府支持好事业,
190	like food and health care and housing and education for the poor.	譬如为穷人提供食物和保健、住房和教育。
191	That's coercion.	这是强迫。
192	That's unjust.	这是不公正的。
193	That violates his rights.	这侵犯了他的权利。
194	And that's why redistribution is wrong.	这就是为什么再分配是错误的。
195	Now, how many agree with that argument?	现在,有多少人同意这个论点?
196	Agree with the libertarian argument	同意自由主义的论点
197	that redistribution for the sake of trying to help the poor is wrong?	为了帮助穷人而进行的再分配是错误的吗?
198	And how many disagree with that argument?	有多少人不同意这一论点?
199	All right, let's begin with those who disagree.	好吧,让我们从不同意的人开始。
200	What's wrong with the libertarian case against redistribution?	利伯塔利反再分配案有什么问题?.
201	Yes?	是吗?
202	I think these people like Michael Jordan have received,	我想这些人像迈克尔・乔丹已经得到了,
203	we're talking about working within a society,	我们说的是在社会中工作,
204	and they received a larger gift from the society,	他们收到了社会上更大的礼物,
205	and they have a larger obligation in return	他们有更大的义务,
206	to give that through redistribution.	以再分配的方式给予它。
207	You can say that Michael Jordan may work just as hard	你可以说迈克尔·乔丹也一样努力
208	as someone who works doing laundry 12 hours, 14 hours a day,	做一个每天12小时14小时的洗衣工
209	but he's receiving more.	但他得到了更多的东西。
210	I don't think it's fair to say that it's all on his inherent hard work.	我觉得说这都是他固有的辛勤工作是不公平的.
211	All right, let's hear from defenders of libertarianism.	好吧,让我们听听自由主义的捍卫者。
212	Why would it be wrong in principle to tax the rich to help the poor?	为帮助穷人而向富人征税在原则上为何是错误的?
213	Go ahead.	来吧。
214	My name's Joe, and I collect skateboards.	我叫乔我收集滑板
215	I've since bought 100 skateboards.	之后我买了100块滑板
216	I live in a society of 100 people.	我生活在一个有100人的社会。
217	I'm the only one with skateboards.	我是唯一一个有滑板的人。
218	Suddenly, everyone decides they want a skateboard.	突然,每个人都决定要滑板
219	They come into my house, they take 99 of my skateboards.	他们进入我家,拿走了我的99块滑板
220	I think that is unjust.	我认为这不公平。
221	Now, I think in certain circumstances,	我觉得在某些情况下
222	it becomes necessary to overlook that injustice,	必须忽略这种不公正,
223	perhaps condone that injustice,	也许可以宽恕这种不公正,
224	as in the case of the cabin boy being killed for food.	就像小木屋男孩为了食物被杀一样
225	If people are on the verge of dying,	如果人们濒临死亡
226	perhaps it is necessary to overlook that injustice,	也许有必要忽略这种不公正,
227	but I think it's important to keep in mind	但我认为必须记住
228	that we're still committing injustice	说我们仍在犯不公正
229	by taking people's belongings or assets.	拿走别人的财物或资产
230	Are you saying that taxing Michael Jordan,	你是说对迈克尔·乔丹征税
231	say at a 33% tax rate,	以33%的税率,
232	for good causes to feed the hungry is theft?	给饥饿的人喂饱的好理由就是偷窃?
233	I think it's unjust.	我觉得这不公平
234	Yes, I do believe it's theft,	是的,我相信这是偷窃,
235	but perhaps it is necessary to condone that theft.	但也许有必要宽恕这起盗窃案
236	But it's theft.	却作是盗.
237	Yes.	对
238	Why is it theft, Joe?	为什么是偷窃,乔?
239	Because...	因为...
240	Why is it like your collection of skateboards?	为什么就像你收集的滑板?
241	It's theft because, at least in my opinion	这是偷窃,因为,至少在我看来
242	and by the libertarian opinion,	和自由主义者的意见,
243	he earned that money fairly,	他得到的钱是公平的,
244	and it belongs to him.	它属于他。
245	So to take it from him is, by definition, theft.	因此,从他那里夺走它,顾名思义,就是偷窃.
246	All right.	好吧,我们走。
247	Let's see if there's...	看看有没有...
248	Who wants to reply to Joe?	谁想回复乔?
249	Yes, go ahead.	说吧
250	I don't think this is necessarily a case	我觉得这不一定是案子
251	in which you have 99 skateboards	您有99个滑板
252	and the government, or you have 100 skateboards,	和政府,或你有100个滑板,
253	and the government's taking 99 of them.	政府要带走其中的99个
254	It's like you have more skateboards	就像你有更多的滑板一样
255	than there are days in a year.	比一年有几天的时间。
256	You have more skateboards than you're going to be able to use	滑板比用来滑板还多
257	in your entire lifetime,	在你整个一生中,
258	and the government is taking part of those.	并且政府正在参与其中。
259	And I think that if you're operating in a society	我认为如果你在社会中运作
260	in which the government doesn't redistribute wealth,	政府不会重新分配财富
261	that that allows for people to amass so much wealth	让人们聚集这么多财富
262	that people who haven't started from this very...	那些还没开始的人...
263	the equal footing in our hypothetical situation	我们假设中的平等地位
264	that doesn't exist in our real society	这在我们真正的社会中并不存在
265	get undercut for the rest of their lives.	下半辈子都被割伤了
266	So you're worried that if there isn't some degree of redistribution,	所以你担心如果没有某种程度的再分配
267	if some are left at the bottom,	如果有人留在底部,
268	there will be no genuine equality of opportunity.	没有真正的机会平等。
269	All right.	好吧,我们走。
270	The idea that taxation is theft.	税收就是偷窃
271	Nozick takes that point one step further.	诺兹克更进一步了
272	He agrees that it's theft.	他同意这是盗窃
273	He's more demanding than Joe.	比乔更苛求.
274	Joe says it is theft.	乔说这是偷窃
275	Maybe in an extreme case it's justified.	也许在极端的情况下是有理由的
276	Maybe a parent is justified in stealing a loaf of bread	也许父母偷面包有道理
277	to feed his or her hungry family.	供养饥饿的家庭。
278	So Joe is a, what would you call yourself,	所以乔是个,你会怎么称呼自己,
279	a compassionate quasi-libertarian?	一个富有同情心的准文学家?
280	Nozick says, if you think about it,	诺兹克说,如果你考虑一下
281	taxation amounts to the taking of earnings.	征税等于收取收入。
282	In other words, it means taking the fruits of my labor.	换句话说,这意味着夺走我劳动的成果.
283	But if the state has the right to take my earnings	但是如果国家有权拿走我的收入
284	or the fruits of my labor,	或我劳动的果实,
285	isn't that morally the same as according to the state	这在道德上是不是和州政府一样
286	the right to claim a portion of my labor?	有权要求我的一部分劳动?
287	So taxation actually is morally equivalent	所以税收在道德上是相当的
288	to forced labor,	强制劳动,
289	because forced labor involves the taking of my leisure,	因为强迫劳役需要我闲暇
290	my time, my efforts,	我的时间,我的努力,
291	just as taxation takes the earnings that I make with my labor.	就像税收占用了我的劳动收入一样
292	And so for Nozick and for the libertarians,	对诺兹克和自由主义者来说
293	taxation for redistribution is theft, as Joe says,	重新分配税就是偷窃,正如乔所说,
294	but not only theft,	不只是偷窃,
295	it's morally equivalent to laying claim	这在道德上相当于索赔
296	to certain hours of a person's life and labor.	一个人生命和劳动的某些时间。
297	So it's morally equivalent to forced labor.	所以在道德上相当于强迫劳动.
298	If the state has a right to claim the fruits of my labor,	如果国家有权要求我劳动的成果,
299	that implies that it really has an entitlement to my labor itself.	这意味着它真的有权利我的工作本身。
300	And what is forced labor?	什么是强制劳动?
301	Forced labor, Nozick points out, is what?	强迫劳动,诺兹克指出,是什么?
302	Is slavery.	是奴隶制。
303	Because if I don't have the right, the sole right, to my own labor,	因为如果我没有权利,唯一的权利做自己的工作,
304	then that's really to say that the government	也就是说政府
305	or the political community is a part owner in me.	或者政治团体是我的一部分
306	And what does it mean for the state to be a part owner in me?	州里成为我的主人是什么意思?
307	If you think about it, it means that I'm a slave,	如果你考虑一下,这意味着我是奴隶,
308	that I don't own myself.	我并不拥有自己。
309	So what this line of reasoning brings us to	所以,这条推理线带给我们
310	is the fundamental principle	基本原则
311	that underlies the libertarian case for rights.	这是自由主义主张权利的理由。
312	What is that principle?	这一原则是什么?
313	It's the idea that I own myself.	这是我自己的想法。
314	It's the idea of self-possession.	即是自负之念.
315	If you want to take rights seriously,	如果你想认真对待权利
316	if you don't want to just regard people as collections of preferences,	如果你不想只把人们当作喜好的收藏
317	the fundamental moral idea to which you will be led	你将走向的基本道德思想
318	is the idea that we are the owners or the proprietors of our own person.	是认为我们是自己的主人或主人
319	And that's why utilitarianism goes wrong.	所以功利主义是错的
320	And that's why it's wrong to yank the organs from that healthy patient.	这就是为什么把器官从那个健康的病人身上挖出来是错误的。
321	You're acting as if that patient belongs to you or to the community,	你表现得好像那个病人属于你或社区
322	but we belong to ourselves.	但我们属于自己
323	And that's the same reason	这也是同样的原因
324	that it's wrong to make laws to protect us from ourselves	制定法律来保护我们自己是错误的
325	or to tell us how to live,	或者告诉我们如何生活,
326	to tell us what virtues we should be governed by.	告诉我们我们应当遵循什么美德。
327	And that's also why it's wrong to tax the rich,	这也是为什么对富人征税是错误的
328	to help the poor, even for good causes,	帮助穷人,即使为好的原因,
329	even to help those who are displaced by the Hurricane Katrina.	甚至帮助那些因卡特里娜飓风而流离失所的人。
330	Ask them to give charity.	请他们施舍
331	But if you tax them, it's like forcing them to labor.	但是,如果你向他们征税, 这就像强迫他们劳动。
332	Could you tell Michael Jordan he has to skip the next week's games	你能告诉迈克尔乔丹他必须跳过下周的比赛吗?
333	and go down to help the people displaced by Hurricane Katrina?	去帮助因卡特里娜飓风而流离失所的人?
334	Morally, it's the same.	道德无异.
335	So the stakes are very high.	因此利害关系非常高.
336	So far, we've heard some objections to the libertarian argument.	到目前为止,我们已经听到一些反对自由主义的论点。
337	But if you want to reject it,	但如果你想拒绝
338	you have to break into this chain of reasoning, which goes,	你必须突破这个推理链, 说,
339	taking my earnings is like taking my labor,	夺走我的收入就像夺走我的劳动
340	but taking my labor is making me a slave.	但夺走我的劳动让我成为奴隶
341	And if you disagree with that,	如果你不同意这一点,
342	you must believe in the principle of self-possession.	你必须相信自我占有的原则。
343	Those who disagree, gather your objections,	谁不同意,谁反对,谁反对,
344	and we'll begin with them next time.	我们下次从他们开始
345	Anyone like to take up that point?	有人愿意接受吗?
346	Yes.	对
347	I feel like when you live in a society, you give up that right.	我觉得当你生活在一个社会, 你放弃的权利。
348	I mean, technically, if I want to personally go out and kill someone	我的意思是,从技术上讲,如果我想亲自出去杀人的话
349	because they offend me, that is self-possession.	因为他们冒犯了我这就是自负
350	Because I live in a society, I cannot do that.	因为我生活在一个社会, 我不能这样做。
351	Victoria, are you questioning the fundamental premise of self-possession?	Victoria 你在质疑自我占有的基本前提吗?
352	Yes.	对
353	I think that you don't really have self-possession if you choose to live in a society	我认为,如果你选择生活在一个社会里, 你并没有真正的自负
354	because you cannot just discount the people around you.	因为你不能轻视周围的人
355	We were talking last time about libertarianism.	我们上次谈的是自由主义
356	I want to go back to the arguments for and against the redistribution of income.	我想回到支持和反对收入再分配的论点上来。
357	But before we do that, just one word about the minimal state.	但是在我们这样做之前, 只需要一个字关于最低状态。
358	Milton Friedman, a libertarian economist,	米尔顿·弗里德曼自由主义经济学家
359	he points out that many of the functions that we take for granted	他指出,我们认为许多职能是理所当然的。
360	as properly belonging to government, don't.	属于政府,不要。
361	They are paternalist.	他们是家长
362	One example he gives is Social Security.	他举的一个例子是社会保障。
363	He says it's a good idea for people to save for their retirement	他说为了退休而存钱是好主意
364	during their earning years, but it's wrong.	在他们挣钱的岁月里但这是错误的
365	It's a violation of people's liberty for the government to force everyone,	这是对人民自由的侵犯政府强迫每个人
366	whether they want to or not, to put aside some earnings today	不论他们是否愿意今天把一些收入放在一边
367	for the sake of their retirement.	为了他们的退休。
368	If people want to take the chance, or if people want to live big today	如果人们想冒这个险,或者人们想过大日子
369	and live a poor retirement, that should be their choice.	过着贫穷的退休生活这应该是他们的选择
370	They should be free to make those judgments and take those risks.	他们应当能够自由地作出这些判决和承担这些风险。
371	So even Social Security would still be at odds with the minimal state	所以连社保都和最低的状态相矛盾
372	that Milton Friedman argued for.	米尔顿·弗里德曼为他辩护
373	It's sometimes thought that collective goods like police protection	有时人们会认为集体商品如警察保护
374	and fire protection will inevitably create the problem of free riders	消防工作将不可避免地造成自由骑手的问题
375	unless they're publicly provided.	除非是公开提供的
376	But there are ways to prevent free riders.	但有办法阻止自由骑手
377	There are ways to restrict even seemingly collective goods like fire protection.	有一些方法可以限制,即使是看似集体的东西,比如防火.
378	I read an article a while back about a private fire company,	我读过一篇关于私人消防公司的文章
379	the Salem Fire Corporation in Arkansas.	阿肯色州的萨利姆消防公司
380	You can sign up with the Salem Fire Corporation, pay a yearly subscription fee,	你可以和萨利姆消防公司签约, 支付每年的订阅费,
381	and if your house catches on fire, they will come and put out the fire.	如果你的房子着火了他们会来灭火
382	But they won't put out everybody's fire.	但他们不会扑灭每个人的火
383	They will only put it out if it's a fire in the home of a subscriber	只有订户家里起火,他们才会熄灭
384	or if it starts to spread and to threaten the home of a subscriber.	或者它开始扩散并威胁一个用户的家。
385	The newspaper article told the story of a homeowner	报纸上的文章讲述了房主的故事
386	who had subscribed to this company in the past,	曾经与这家公司签约,
387	but failed to renew his subscription.	但没有续约
388	His house caught on fire.	他的房子着火了
389	The Salem Fire Corporation showed up with its trucks	萨利姆消防队的卡车来了
390	and watched the house burn, just making sure that it didn't spread.	看着房子被烧了只是确保它不会扩散
391	The fire chief was asked.	有人问消防队长
392	Well, he wasn't exactly the fire chief.	他不是消防队长
393	I guess he was the CEO.	我猜他是首席执行官
394	He was asked, how can you stand by with fire equipment	有人问他,你怎么会有消防器材?
395	and allow a person's home to burn?	允许一个人的家被烧毁?
396	He replied, once we verified there was no danger to a member's property,	他回答说,一旦我们核实一个成员的财产没有危险,
397	we had no choice but to back off according to our rules.	我们别无选择,只能按照我们的规则退缩。
398	If we responded to all fires, he said, there would be no incentive to subscribe.	他说,如果我们对所有的火灾作出反应,就不会有订阅的积极性。
399	The homeowner, in this case, tried to renew his subscription at the scene of the fire,	屋主试图在火灾现场续约
400	but the head of the company refused.	但公司负责人拒绝了
401	You can't wreck your car, he said, and then buy insurance for it later.	他说你不能毁了你的车然后以后再买保险
402	So even public goods that we take for granted as being within the proper province of government	因此,即使公共物品,我们认为理所当然属于适当的政府省
403	can, many of them, in principle, be isolated, made exclusive to those who pay.	原则上,其中许多人可以被孤立,被排斥在支付者之外。
404	That's all to do with the question of collective goods	这都与集体商品问题有关
405	and the libertarian's injunction against paternalism.	自由主义者禁止家长制
406	But let's go back now to the arguments about redistribution.	但是,让我们回到关于再分配的争论。
407	Now, underlying the libertarian's case for the minimal state	现在,自由主义者的理由为最低状态
408	is a worry about coercion, but what's wrong with coercion?	是担心强迫, 但强迫有什么错?
409	The libertarian offers this answer.	自由主义者给出了这个答案.
410	To coerce someone, to use some person for the sake of the general welfare,	强迫某人,为了一般福利而利用某人,
411	is wrong because it calls into question the fundamental fact that we own ourselves,	这是错的,因为它让人质疑我们自己的根本事实,
412	the fundamental moral fact of self-possession or self-ownership.	自有或自有的基本道德事实。
413	The libertarian's argument against redistribution	自由主义者反对再分配的论点
414	begins with this fundamental idea that we own ourselves.	从这个我们自己拥有的根本思想开始。
415	Nozick says that if the society as a whole can go to Bill Gates or go to Michael Jordan	诺兹克说,如果全社会可以去比尔盖茨,也可以去迈克尔乔丹
416	and tax away a portion of their wealth,	并分舍一部分财产,
417	what the society is really asserting is a collective property right	社会真正主张的是集体财产权
418	in Bill Gates or in Michael Jordan.	在比尔盖茨或迈克尔乔丹。
419	But that violates the fundamental principle that we belong to ourselves.	但这违反了我们属于我们自己的基本原则。
420	Now, we've already heard a number of objections to the libertarian argument.	现在,我们已经听到一些反对自由论的论点。
421	What I would like to do today is to give the libertarians among us	今天我想做的是给我们中间的自由主义者
422	a chance to answer the objections that have been raised.	有机会回答提出的反对意见。
423	And some have already identified themselves and have agreed to come	也有人已经认清自己,同意前来
424	and make the case for libertarianism to reply to the objections that have been raised.	让自由主义对提出的反对作出答复。
425	So raise your hand if you are among the libertarians who's prepared to stand up	所以,举手,如果你是自由主义者谁准备站起来
426	for the theory and respond to the objections.	对于理论,并回应反对。
427	Alex Harris 在网络博客上是明星
428	Alex, come here.	亚历克斯过来
429	Stand up.	站起来
430	We'll create a libertarian corner over here.	我们在这里建立一个自由的角落。
431	And who else?	还有谁?
432	Other libertarians who will join?	其他自由主义者谁会加入?
433	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
434	John?	约翰?
435	John Sheffield.	约翰·谢菲尔德.
436	Who else wants to join?	还有谁想加入?
437	Other brave libertarians who are prepared to take on...	其他勇敢的解放主义者他们准备承担...
438	Yes.	对
439	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
440	Julia Roto.	朱莉娅·罗托.
441	Julia, come join us over there.	茱莉亚,过来那边
442	Now, while Team Libertarian, Julia, John, Alex,	现在,自由队,朱莉娅,约翰,亚历克斯,
443	while Team Libertarian is gathering over there,	当自由队在那边集合时
444	let me just summarize the main objections that I've heard in class and on the website.	让我总结一下在课堂和网站上听到的主要反对意见。
445	Objection number one.	反对第一。
446	And here, I'll come down to it.	在这里,我会下来的。
447	I want to talk to Team Libertarian over here.	我想跟自由队谈谈
448	So, objection number one is that the poor need the money more.	所以,第一反对意见是穷人需要更多的钱。
449	That's an obvious objection.	这显然是一个反对意见。
450	A lot more than do Bill Gates and Michael Jordan.	比比尔·盖茨和迈克尔·乔丹要多得多
451	Objection number two.	二号反对
452	It's not really slavery to tax because, at least in a democratic society,	这不是真正的奴隶税因为,至少在民主社会,
453	it's not a slave holder.	这不是一个奴隶持有者。
454	It's Congress.	这是国会。
455	It's a democratic... You're smiling, Alex, already.	这是一个民主的... 你在笑,亚历克斯,已经。
456	You're confident you can reply to all of these?	你能回答这些吗?
457	So, taxation by consent of the governed is not coerced.	因此,经被统治者同意的征税不是强制性的。
458	Third, some people have said, don't the successful, like Gates,	第三,有些人说,不要成功, 像盖茨,
459	owe a debt to society for their success that they repay by paying taxes?	欠社会一笔债,因为他们靠交税还债?
460	Who wants to respond to the first one?	谁想回应第一个?
461	The poor need the money more.	穷人更需要钱。
462	John.	约翰
463	All right, John.	好吧,约翰。
464	Let's see.	让我看看。
465	Here, I'll hold it.	在这里,我拿着它。
466	All right.	好吧,我们走。
467	The poor need the money more.	穷人更需要钱。
468	That's quite obvious.	这很明显
469	I could use the money.	我可以用这笔钱
470	You know, I certainly wouldn't mind if Bill Gates gave me a million dollars.	我当然不介意比尔·盖茨给我一百万
471	I mean, I'd take a thousand.	我的意思是,我会采取一千。
472	But at some point, you have to understand that the benefits of redistribution of wealth	但有时,你必须明白财富再分配的好处
473	don't justify the initial violation of the property right.	不要为最初侵犯财产权的行为辩解.
474	If you look at the argument, the poor need the money more,	如果你看看争论,穷人需要更多的钱,
475	at no point in that argument do you contradict the fact that we've extrapolated from	这个论点中,你从未反驳过我们推断出
476	agreed upon principles that people own themselves.	商定了人民自主的原则。
477	We've extrapolated that people have property rights.	我们已经推断,人们有财产权。
478	And so whether or not it would be a good thing or a nice thing	所以,无论它是好事还是好事
479	or even a necessary thing for the survival of some people,	甚至是某些人生存所必需的东西,
480	we don't see that that justifies the violation of the right that we've logically extrapolated.	我们不认为这证明侵犯我们逻辑推断的权利是正当的
481	And so that also, I mean, there still exists this institution of like individual philanthropy.	所以,同样,我的意思是, 这个机构仍然存在, 类似于个人慈善事业。
482	Milton Friedman makes this argument.	米尔顿·弗里德曼提出这个论点.
483	So Bill Gates can give to charity if he wants to.	所以比尔·盖茨如果愿意可以给慈善.
484	Right.	对
485	But it would still be wrong to coerce him.	但胁迫他还是不对的
486	Exactly.	没错
487	To meet the needs of the poor.	满足穷人的需要。
488	Exactly.	没错
489	Are the two of you happy with that reply?	你们两个对答复满意吗?
490	Anything to add?	还有什么要补充的吗?
491	All right.	好吧,我们走。
492	Go ahead, Julie.	继续,朱莉。
493	I think, Julia, yes.	我想,朱莉娅,是的。
494	I think I could also add, I guess I could whole add that	我想我也可以补充, 我想我可以完全补充
495	there's a difference between needing something and deserving something.	需要的东西和值得的东西是不同的
496	I mean, in an ideal society, everyone's needs be met.	我的意思是,在一个理想的社会里,每个人都需要得到满足.
497	But here we're arguing, what do we deserve as a society?	但是我们在这里争论,我们作为一个社会应该得到什么?
498	And the poor don't deserve the benefits that would flow from taxing Michael Jordan to help them.	穷人不值得从向迈克尔·乔丹征税来帮助他们得到好处。
499	Based on what we've come up with here, I don't think you deserve something like that.	根据我们想出的办法我认为你不该有这种事
500	All right.	好吧,我们走。
501	Let me push you a little bit on that, Julia.	让我推你一点,朱莉娅。
502	The victims of Hurricane Katrina are in desperate need of help.	卡特里娜飓风的受害者迫切需要帮助。
503	Would you say that they don't deserve help that would come from the federal government through taxation?	你会说他们不值得通过税收来帮助联邦政府吗?
504	Okay.	摆
505	That's a difficult question.	这是一个困难的问题。
506	I think this is a case where they need help, not deserve it.	我认为这是他们需要帮助,而不是应该得到帮助的情况。
507	But I think, again, if you hit a certain level of requirements to reach sustenance, you're going to need help.	但我还是觉得,如果你达到一定的要求才能达到供养,你需要帮助。
508	Like if you don't have food or a place to live, that's a case of need.	就像你没有食物或住的地方, 这就是需要。
509	So need is one thing and dessert is another.	所以需求是一回事,甜点是另一回事。
510	Exactly.	没错
511	All right.	好吧,我们走。
512	Who would like to reply?	谁想回答?
513	Yes.	对
514	Going back to the first point that he made about the property rights of the individual,	回到他关于个人产权的第一点
515	the property rights are established and enforced by the government, which is a democratic government,	财产权利由作为民主政府的政府确定和执行,
516	and we have representatives who enforce those rights.	并且我们有代表执行这些权利。
517	If you live in a society that operates under those rules,	如果你生活在一个遵循这些规则的社会里
518	then it should be up to the government to decide how those resources that come out through taxation are distributed	因此,应该由政府决定如何分配通过税收产生的资源。
519	because it is through the consent of the government.	因为这是通过政府的同意。
520	If you disagree with it, you don't have to live in that society where that operates.	如果你不同意, 你不必生活在那个社会在那里运作。
521	All right, good.	好吧,不错。
522	And tell me your name.	告诉我你的名字。
523	Raoul.	拉乌尔
524	Raoul is pointing out, actually, Raoul is invoking point number two.	拉乌尔指出,实际上拉乌尔援引了第二点.
525	If the taxation is by the consent of the governed, it's not coerced.	如果税收是经被管理者同意的,则不是强迫的.
526	It's legitimate.	谓之正法.
527	Bill Gates and Michael Jordan are citizens of the United States.	比尔·盖茨和迈克尔·乔丹是美国公民.
528	They get to vote for Congress.	他们可以投票给国会。
529	They get to vote their policy convictions, just like everybody else.	他们可以投票政策信念, 就像其他人一样。
530	Who would like to take that one on?	谁愿意穿上这个?
531	John?	约翰?
532	All right.	好吧,我们走。
533	Basically, what the libertarians are objecting to in this case is the middle 80 percent deciding	基本上,自由派反对的是中间80%决定
534	what the top 10 percent are doing for the bottom 10 percent.	排名前10%的人为排名前10%的人所做的一切。
535	Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, John.	单单单单揩
536	Majority.	多数
537	Don't you believe in democracy?	你不相信民主吗?
538	Well, right.	没错
539	Don't you believe in, I mean, you say 80 percent, 10 percent majority.	难道你不相信,我的意思是,你说80%,10%多数。
540	Majority rule is what?	多数规则是什么?
541	Majority.	多数
542	Exactly.	没错
543	In a democracy.	在一个民主国家。
544	Aren't you for democracy?	你不赞成民主吗?
545	Yes, I'm for democracy, but hang on, hang on, hang on.	是的,我支持民主,但坚持住,坚持住,坚持住。
546	Democracy and mob rule aren't the same thing.	民主和暴民统治不是一回事。
547	Mob rule.	黑帮规则。
548	Exactly.	没错
549	But in an open society, you have a recourse to address that through your representatives.	但是,在一个开放的社会里,你可以通过你的代表来解决这个问题。
550	And if the majority of the consent of those who are governed doesn't agree with you, then	如果被统治者的多数同意不同意你的话
551	you know you're choosing to live in a society and you have to operate under what the majority	你知道你选择生活在一个社会, 你必须运行在多数人
552	of society concludes.	社会的结论。
553	All right.	好吧,我们走。
554	Alex, on democracy.	亚历克斯,关于民主。
555	Democracy.	民主报.
556	What about that?	怎么样?
557	The fact that I have won, you know, 500,000th of a vote for one representative in Congress	我赢得了50万的国会代表
558	is not the same thing as my having the ability to decide for myself how to use my property	这和我决定自己如何使用地产不一样
559	rights.	权利。
560	I'm a drop in the bucket.	我是一个滴水桶。
561	You might lose the vote.	你可能会失去选票。
562	Exactly.	没错
563	And I might take.	我可能会接受
564	And I will.	我会的。
565	I mean, I don't have the decision right now whether or not to pay taxes.	我的意思是,我现在没有决定是否交税。
566	If I don't, I get locked in jail.	如果我不这样做,我会被关在监狱里。
567	Or they tell me to get out of the country.	或者他们叫我离开这个国家
568	But Alex, Alex, let me make a small case for democracy and see what you would say.	但亚历克斯,亚历克斯, 让我做一个小理由民主,并看你会说什么。
569	Why can't you?	为什么不行?
570	We live in a democratic society with freedom of speech.	我们生活在一个言论自由的民主社会中。
571	Why can't you take to the hustings, persuade your fellow citizens that taxation is unjust	为什么你不能去胡思乱想, 说服你的同胞,税收是不公正的
572	and try to get a majority?	并试图获得多数?
573	I don't think the people should be, should have to convince 280 million others simply	我不认为人民应该如此, 应该说服其他2.8亿
574	in order to exercise their own rights, in order to not have their self-ownership violated.	为了行使自己的权利,为了不侵犯他们的自我所有权。
575	I think people should be able to do that without having to convince 280 million people.	我认为人们应该能够做到这一点,而不必说服2.8亿人。
576	Does that mean you're against democracy as a whole?	这是否意味着你反对整个民主?
577	No.	没有
578	I just believe in a very limited form of democracy whereby we have a constitution that severely	我只是相信一种非常有限的民主形式我们的宪法是严重的
579	limits the scope of what decisions can be made democratically.	限制可以民主作出决定的范围。
580	All right.	好吧,我们走。
581	So you're saying that democracy is fine, except where fundamental rights are involved.	所以,你的意思是,民主是好的, 除非涉及到基本权利。
582	And I think you could win.	我想你能赢
583	If you're going on the hustings, let me add one element to the argument you might make.	如果你在胡思乱想,让我给你可能提出的论点增加一个要素。
584	Maybe you could say, put aside the economic debates, taxation.	也许你可以说,把经济辩论,税收放在一边。
585	Suppose the individual right to religious liberty were at stake.	假设个人享有宗教自由的权利受到威胁。
586	Then, Alex, you could say on the hustings, surely you would all agree that we shouldn't	那么,亚历克斯,你可以说在胡思乱想, 你们肯定都同意,我们不应该
587	put the right to individual liberty up to a vote?	将个人自由权付诸表决?
588	Yeah, that's exactly right.	对,没错
589	And that's why we have constitutional amendments and why we make it so hard to amend our constitution.	这也是为什么我们有宪法修正案,为什么我们让宪法如此难以修正.
590	So you would say that the right to private property, the right of Michael Jordan to keep	所以你会说私有财产的权利迈克尔·乔丹保留的权利
591	all the money he makes, at least to protect it from redistribution, is the same kind of	他所有赚的钱,至少是为了保护它不被再分配,都是一样的
592	right, with the same kind of weight, as the right to freedom of speech, the right to religious	与言论自由、宗教
593	liberty, rights that should trump what the majority wants.	自由,权利应该凌驾于大多数人想要的之上。
594	Absolutely.	当然
595	The reason why we have a right to free speech is because we have a right to own ourselves,	我们之所以有言论自由权是因为我们有权自己
596	to exercise our voice in any way that we choose.	以任何我们选择的方式表达我们的声音。
597	All right.	好吧,我们走。
598	Good.	不错
599	All right.	好吧,我们走。
600	So there we are.	我们到了
601	Who would like to respond to that argument about democracy being...	谁愿意回应关于民主是...
602	Okay, up there.	好,上楼
603	Stand up.	站起来
604	I think comparing religion and economics, it's not the same thing.	我认为比较宗教和经济学,不是一回事.
605	The reason why Bill Gates was able to make so much money is because we live in an economically	比尔·盖茨之所以能赚这么多钱是因为我们生活在经济上
606	and socially stable society.	社会和社会稳定。
607	And if the government didn't provide for the poorest 10%, as you say, through taxation,	如果政府不提供最穷的10%,就像你说的, 通过税收,
608	then we would need more money for police to prevent crime.	然后我们需要更多的钱警方预防犯罪。
609	And so either way, there would be more taxes taken away to provide what you guys call the	所以无论怎样, 更多的税收被拿走提供你们所谓的
610	necessary things that the government provides.	政府提供的必需品
611	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
612	Anna.	安娜,请问安娜
613	Anna, let me ask you this.	安娜,让我问你
614	Why is the fundamental right to religious liberty different from the right Alex asserts	为什么宗教自由的基本权利与亚历克斯认为的权利不同?
615	as a fundamental right to private property and to keep what I earn?	作为拥有私有财产和保留我所得收入的基本权利?
616	What's the difference between the two?	二者有何分别.
617	Because you wouldn't be able to make money.	因为你不会赚钱。
618	You wouldn't be able to own property if society wasn't stable.	如果社会不稳定,你就不能拥有财产.
619	And that's completely different from religion.	这与宗教完全不同。
620	That's something personal, something that you can practice on your own in your own home.	这是私人的事,你可以在自己的家里单独练习。
621	Whereas me practicing, my religion is not going to affect the next person.	当我练习时我的宗教不会影响下一个人
622	But if I'm poor and I'm desperate, I might commit a crime to feed my family.	但如果我贫穷,我绝望,我可能会犯罪养家糊口.
623	And that can affect others.	这会影响到其他人。
624	Okay, good.	好吧,不错。
625	Thank you.	谢谢
626	Would it be wrong for someone to steal a loaf of bread to feed his starving family?	有人偷面包喂他饿死的家人是不是不对?
627	Is that wrong?	这样不对吗?
628	I believe that it is.	我认为是的。
629	Let's take a quick poll of the three of you.	我们来快速调查一下你们三个
630	You say yes.	你说是的。
631	It is wrong.	这是错误的。
632	It violates property rights.	它侵犯了财产权。
633	It's wrong.	这是错误的。
634	Even to save a starving family?	甚至为了拯救一个饥饿的家庭?
635	I mean, there are definitely other ways around that.	我的意思是,肯定还有其他方法围绕这一点。
636	And by justifying...	通过证明...
637	No, hang on, hang on.	不,坚持住,坚持住。
638	Before you laugh at me.	在你笑我之前说吧
639	That didn't work.	没用的
640	Before justifying the act of stealing, you have to look at violating the right that we've already agreed exists.	在为偷窃行为辩护之前你得看看是否违反了我们已经同意的权利
641	The right of self-possession and the possession of, I mean, your own things.	拥有和拥有自己的东西的权利
642	We agree on property rights.	我们同意财产权。
643	We agree on stealing.	我们同意偷东西
644	So property rights is not the issue.	所以产权不是问题所在
645	So why is it wrong to steal even to feed your starving family?	那么,为什么偷东西甚至养活你饿死的家人是错误的呢?
646	Sort of the original argument that I made in the very first question you asked.	算是我在你问的第一个问题中提出的最初论点
647	The benefits of an action don't justify, don't make the action just.	行动的好处是没有道理的, 不要让行动公正。
648	What would you say, Julia?	你会说什么,朱莉娅?
649	Is it all right to steal a loaf of bread to feed a starving family or to steal a drug that your child needs to survive?	偷面包来养活一个饥饿的家庭还是偷你孩子需要生存的毒品
650	I think I'm okay with that, honestly.	老实说,我觉得我不介意
651	Even from a libertarian standpoint, I think that, okay, saying that you can just take money arbitrarily from people who have a lot to go to this pool of people who need it.	即使从自由主义的观点来看,我还是认为,好吧,说你可以任意地从那些有很多需要钱的人那里拿钱。
652	But you have an individual who's acting on their own behalf to kind of save themselves.	但你有个人以他们自己的名义来拯救自己
653	I mean, I think you said they, from the idea of like self-possession, they're also in charge of protecting themselves and keeping themselves alive.	我的意思是,我认为你说, 从像自我占有的想法, 他们也负责保护自己和保持自己的生命。
654	So therefore, even from a libertarian standpoint, that might be okay.	因此,即使从自由主义的观点来看,这也可能是好的。
655	All right.	好吧,我们走。
656	That's good.	这是很好的。
657	All right.	好吧,我们走。
658	What about number three up here?	三号呢?
659	Isn't it the case that the successful, the wealthy, owe a debt?	成功者,富人,欠债,岂不如此?
660	They didn't do that all by themselves.	他们不是全靠自己
661	They had to cooperate with other people.	他们不得不和其他人合作。
662	That they owe a debt to society and that that's expressed in taxation.	他们欠了社会一笔债,这表现在税收上。
663	You want to take that on, Julia?	茱莉亚,你想接吗?
664	Okay.	摆
665	This one, I believe that there is not a debt to society in the sense that how did these people become wealthy?	这个,我相信,在这些人如何变得富有的意义上,社会没有债务?
666	They did something that society valued highly.	他们做了社会高度评价的事情。
667	I think that society has already been providing for them.	我认为,社会已经为他们提供了帮助。
668	If anything, I think everything's canceled out.	如果有什么,我觉得一切都取消了。
669	They provided a service to society and society responded by somehow they got their wealth.	他们以某种方式获得财富,为社会提供了服务,社会作出了回应。
670	So be concrete.	所以,要具体。
671	In the case of Michael Jordan, some, I mean to illustrate your point,	就迈克尔·乔丹而言有些我想说明你的观点
672	there were people who helped him make the money, the teammates, the coach, people who taught him how to play.	有人帮助他挣钱,队友,教练,有人教他打球.
673	But they, you're saying that they've all been paid for their services.	但他们,你的意思是他们都得到了报酬他们的服务。
674	Exactly.	没错
675	And society derived a lot of benefit and pleasure from watching Michael Jordan play.	而社会从观看迈克尔·乔丹的演奏中获得了很多好处和乐趣.
676	I think that that's how he paid his debt to society.	我想他就是这样向社会还债的
677	All right.	好吧,我们走。
678	Good.	不错
679	Who would anyone like to take up that point?	谁愿意接受这一点?
680	Yes.	对
681	I think that there's a problem here with that we're assuming that a person has self-possession when they live in a society.	我认为这里有一个问题,我们假设一个人在社会里生活的时候有自负.
682	I feel like when you live in a society, you give up that right.	我觉得当你生活在一个社会, 你放弃的权利。
683	I mean, technically, if I want to personally go out and kill someone because they offend me, that is self-possession.	我的意思是,从技术上来说,如果我想亲自出去杀了一个人,因为他们冒犯了我,那就是自负.
684	Because I live in a society, I cannot do that.	因为我生活在一个社会, 我不能这样做。
685	I think it's kind of equivalent to say because I have more money, I have resources that can save people's lives.	我认为这相当于说因为我有更多的钱, 我有资源可以拯救人们的生命。
686	Is it not okay for the government to take that from me?	政府能从我这里拿走吗?
687	It's self-possession only to a certain extent because I'm living in a society where I have to take account of the people around me.	它只是某种程度上的自我占有,因为我生活在一个我必须顾及周围的人的社会里.
688	So are you questioning, what's your name?	你在问,你叫什么名字?
689	Victoria.	维多利亚
690	Victoria, are you questioning the fundamental premise of self-possession?	Victoria 你在质疑自我占有的基本前提吗?
691	Yes.	对
692	I think that you don't really have self-possession if you choose to live in a society because you cannot just discount the people around you.	我认为,如果你选择生活在一个社会里,你并不真正有自负感,因为你不能仅仅低估周围的人.
693	All right.	好吧,我们走。
694	I want to quickly get the response of the libertarian team to the last point.	我想迅速得到自由派团队对最后一点的反应.
695	The last point builds on, well, maybe it builds on Victoria's suggestion that we don't own ourselves.	最后一点是建立在,嗯,也许它建立在维多利亚的建议之上,即我们不拥有自己。
696	Because it says that Bill Gates is wealthy, that Michael Jordan makes a huge income.	因为上面写着比尔·盖茨富有,迈克尔·乔丹收入巨大.
697	Isn't holy their own doing.	不是神圣的他们自己的行为。
698	It's the product of a lot of luck.	这是很多运气的产品。
699	And so we can't claim that they morally deserve all the money they make.	所以我们不能声称他们从道德上应该得到他们赚的钱
700	Who wants to reply to that?	谁想回答这个问题?
701	Alex?	亚历克斯?
702	You certainly could make the case that it is not, their wealth is not appropriate to the goodness in their hearts.	你必定知道,他们的财产,对于他们的心中的善,是不适当的。
703	But that's not really the morally relevant issue.	但这不是道德问题
704	The point is that they have received what they have through the free exchange of people who have given them their holdings, usually in exchange for providing some other service.	问题是,他们通过自由交换他们拥有的财产而得到了他们所拥有的财产,通常是为了换取提供某些其他服务。
705	Good enough.	够好了
706	I want to try to sum up what we've learned from this discussion.	我想总结一下我们从这次讨论中学到了什么.
707	But first, let's thank John, Alex and Julia for an excellent, really wonderful job.	但是,首先,让我们感谢约翰,亚历克斯和茱莉亚的出色,非常出色的工作.
708	Toward the end of the discussion just now, Victoria challenged the premise of this line of reasoning, this libertarian logic.	在刚刚讨论结束时,维多利亚挑战了这种推理的前提,这种自由主义逻辑.
709	Maybe she suggested we don't own ourselves after all.	也许她暗示我们毕竟不是自己的
710	If you reject the libertarian case against redistribution,	如果你拒绝自由主义者反对再分配的案子
711	there would seem to be an incentive to break into the libertarian line of reasoning at the earliest, at the most modest level.	似乎有动力突破自由主义的推理线最早, 在最温和的水平。
712	Which is why a lot of people disputed that taxation is morally equivalent to forced labor.	这就是为什么很多人对税收在道德上等同于强迫劳动提出质疑。
713	But what about the big claim, the premise, the big idea underlying the libertarian argument?	但大主张,前提,自由主义论点背后的大思想呢?
714	Is it true that we own ourselves?	我们拥有自己是真的吗?
715	Or can we do without that idea and still avoid what libertarians want to avoid,	或者我们可以不这样做没有这个想法,仍然避免自由主义者想要避免,
716	creating a society and an account of justice where some people can be just used for the sake of other people's welfare or even for the sake of the general good?	建立一个社会和一个正义的叙述在那里,一些人可以仅仅用来为他人的福利, 甚至为了普遍的利益?
717	So, libertarians combat the utilitarian idea of using people as means for the collective happiness	因此,自由主义者与功利主义思想作斗争,把人当作集体幸福的手段.
718	by saying the way to put a stop to that utilitarian logic of using persons	停止利用人的实用主义逻辑
719	is to resort to the intuitively powerful idea that we are the proprietors of our own person.	利用直觉强大的思想,即我们是自己人的主人。
720	That's Alex and Julia and John and Robert Nozick.	这是亚历克斯和茱莉亚约翰和罗伯特·诺兹克
721	What are the consequences for a theory of justice and an account of rights of calling into question the idea of self-possession?	正义理论和权利陈述对自我占有思想提出质疑的后果是什么?
722	Does it mean that we're back to utilitarianism and using people and aggregating preferences and pushing the fat man off the bridge?	这是否意味着我们回到了功利主义,利用人们,集聚喜好,把胖子推下桥?
723	Nozick doesn't himself fully develop the idea of self-possession.	诺兹克本人并没有充分发展自负的思想.
724	He borrows it from an earlier philosopher, John Locke.	他从早期哲学家约翰·洛克那里借来的.
725	John Locke accounted for the rise of private property from the state of nature	约翰·洛克(John Locke)为来自自然状态的私有财产上升负责.
726	by a chain of reasoning very similar to the one that Nozick and the libertarians use.	与诺兹克和自由主义者使用的逻辑非常相似
727	John Locke said, private property arises because when we mix our labor with things, unowned things,	约翰·洛克说私人财产的产生是因为当我们把劳动和事物混为一谈
728	we come to acquire a property right in those things.	我们来获得这些东西的财产权。
729	And the reason?	为什么?
730	The reason is that we own our own labor.	原因是我们拥有自己的劳动力。
731	And the reason for that?	原因为何?
732	We are the proprietors, the owners of our own person.	我们是业主我们自己的主人
733	And so in order to examine the moral force of the libertarian claim that we own ourselves,	为了审查自由主义者声称我们拥有自己的道德力量
734	we need to turn to the English political philosopher John Locke and examine his account of private property and self-ownership.	我们需要向英国政治哲学家约翰·洛克(John Locke)倾诉, 并审查他关于私有财产和自有财产的叙述。
735	And that's what we'll do next time.	我们下次也会这么做的

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P5 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p05 4. 4.这是我的土地 (P5)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p05 4. 4.这是我的土地 (P5)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 54:59

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:07	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:32	Today we turn to John Locke.	今天我们找约翰洛克
0:39	On the face of it, Locke is a powerful ally of the libertarian.	表面上看,洛克是自由主义者的强大盟友.
0:47	First, he believes, as libertarians today maintain,	首先,他相信, 今天自由主义者认为,
0:55	that there are certain fundamental individual rights	某些基本的个人权利
1:00	that are so important that no government,	如此重要,以至于没有政府,
1:03	even a representative government, even a democratically elected government,	甚至一个有代表性的政府, 甚至一个民主选举的政府,
1:08	can override them.	能够覆盖它们。
1:12	Not only that, he believes that those fundamental rights include	不仅如此,他认为这些基本权利包括:

展开字幕全文（596 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
2	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
3	Today we turn to John Locke.	今天我们找约翰洛克
4	On the face of it, Locke is a powerful ally of the libertarian.	表面上看,洛克是自由主义者的强大盟友.
5	First, he believes, as libertarians today maintain,	首先,他相信, 今天自由主义者认为,
6	that there are certain fundamental individual rights	某些基本的个人权利
7	that are so important that no government,	如此重要,以至于没有政府,
8	even a representative government, even a democratically elected government,	甚至一个有代表性的政府, 甚至一个民主选举的政府,
9	can override them.	能够覆盖它们。
10	Not only that, he believes that those fundamental rights include	不仅如此,他认为这些基本权利包括:
11	a natural right to life, liberty and property.	生命、自由和财产的自然权利。
12	And furthermore, he argues, that the right to property	他还指出,财产权
13	is not just the creation of government or of law.	不仅仅是建立政府或法律。
14	The right to property is a natural right	财产权是一项自然权利
15	in the sense that it is pre-political.	也就是说,这是政治性的。
16	It is a right that attaches to individuals as human beings,	这是个人作为人的权利,
17	even before government comes on the scene,	甚至在政府出现之前
18	even before parliaments and legislatures enact laws	甚至在议会和立法机构颁布法律之前
19	to define rights and to enforce them.	界定权利并执行这些权利。
20	Locke says, in order to think about what it means to have a natural right,	洛克说,为了想着拥有自然权利的意义,
21	we have to imagine the way things are before government, before law.	我们必须想象政府面前,法律面前的状态。
22	And that's what Locke means by the state of nature.	而这就是洛克根据自然状态的含义.
23	He says, the state of nature is a state of liberty.	他说,自然状态是一种自由状态.
24	Human beings are free and equal beings.	人类是自由平等的。
25	There is no natural hierarchy.	没有自然的等级。
26	It's not the case that some people are born to be kings	有些人生来就是为了当国王
27	and others are born to be serfs.	其他人生来就是农奴
28	We are free and equal in the state of nature.	我们在自然状态下是自由和平等的。
29	And yet, he makes the point that there's a difference	然而,他却说,有区别
30	between a state of liberty and a state of license.	自由状态和许可证状态之间。
31	And the reason is that even in the state of nature, there is a kind of law.	而因缘虽在自然境界亦有种法.
32	It's not the kind of law that legislatures enact.	这不是立法机关颁布的法律.
33	It's a law of nature.	谓自然之法.
34	And this law of nature constrains what we can do,	而这种自然法则制约了我们所能做的事情,
35	even though we're free, even though we're in the state of nature.	尽管我们自由了尽管我们处于自然状态
36	Well, what are the constraints?	那么,是什么限制?
37	The only constraint given by the law of nature is that the rights we have,	自然法则给予的唯一限制是,我们拥有的权利,
38	the natural rights we have, we can't give up,	我们拥有的自然权利我们不能放弃
39	nor can we take them from somebody else.	我们也不能把他们从别人那里带走。
40	Under the law of nature, I'm not free to take somebody else's life	根据自然法则,我不能随意夺走别人的生命
41	or liberty or property.	或自由或财产。
42	Nor am I free to take my own life or liberty or property.	我也不能自由地夺走自己的生命或自由或财产。
43	Even though I'm free, I'm not free to violate the law of nature.	虽自在无量无边无量无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边无边
44	I'm not free to take my own life or to sell myself into slavery	我无法自由夺去自己的生命也无法出卖自己成为奴隶
45	or to give to somebody else arbitrary absolute power over me.	或者把绝对的权力交给别人
46	So where does this constraint, you may think it's a fairly minimal constraint,	所以,哪里有这种限制, 你可能会认为这是一个相当微小的限制,
47	but where does it come from?	但从哪里来的?
48	Well, Locke tells us where it comes from.	洛克告诉我们它从哪里来的
49	And he gives two answers.	他给出了两个答案。
50	Here's the first answer.	这是第一个答案。
51	For men, being all the workmanship of one omnipotent and infinitely wise maker,	对于男人来说,他是一个无能、无穷智慧的创造者,
52	namely God, they are his property,	即真主,那是他的财产,
53	whose workmanship they are made to last during his, not one another's, pleasure.	他们的作风是在他的喜悦中而不是在对方的喜悦中延续下来的
54	So one answer to the question is why can't I give up my natural rights	所以问题的一个答案是为什么我不能放弃我的自然权利
55	to life, liberty and property is,	生命、自由和财产,
56	well, they're not strictly speaking yours.	严格说来,它们不是你的
57	After all, you are the creature of God.	毕竟你是上帝的创造者
58	God has a bigger property right in us, a prior property right.	上帝对我们有更大的财产权利, 一种先前的财产权。
59	Now you might say that's an unsatisfying, unconvincing answer,	现在你可能说这是一个不满意, 令人信服的答案,
60	at least for those who don't believe in God.	至少对不相信上帝的人来说
61	What did Locke have to say to them?	洛克对他们说了什么?
62	Well, here's where Locke appeals to the idea of reason.	好吧,这是洛克呼吁理性的想法。
63	And this is the idea that if we properly reflect on what it means to be free,	这就是这个想法如果我们正确思考自由的意义
64	we will be led to the conclusion that freedom can't just be a matter of doing whatever we want.	我们将得出这样的结论: 自由不能只是做我们想做的事
65	I think this is what Locke means when he says,	我想这是洛克的意思当他说,
66	the state of nature has the law of nature to govern it which obliges everyone.	自然的状态有自然法则来支配它,它要求每个人.
67	And reason, which is that law, teaches mankind who will but consult it	理性,这就是法律, 教人类谁会去咨询它
68	that all being equal and independent,	人人平等独立,
69	no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty or possessions.	任何人都不应伤害他人的生命、健康、自由或财产。
70	This leads to a puzzling paradoxical feature of Locke's account of rights.	这导致了洛克对权利的描述中令人费解的矛盾特征.
71	Familiar in one sense, but strange in another.	一种意义上比较熟悉但另一种意义上比较奇怪
72	It's the idea that our natural rights are unalienable.	我们的自然权利不可剥夺
73	What does unalienable mean?	不可剥夺是什么意思?
74	It's not for us to alienate them or to give them up, to give them away, to trade them away, to sell them.	岂非我们疏远他们或放弃他们,让出他们,交易他们,卖掉他们.
75	Consider an airline ticket.	考虑一张机票。
76	Airline tickets are non-transferable, or tickets to the Patriots or to the Red Sox.	航空公司的机票是不可转让的,或者给爱国者或红袜的机票.
77	Non-transferable tickets are unalienable.	不可转让车票不可转让.
78	I own them in the limited sense that I can use them for myself, but I can't trade them away.	有限意义上的我拥有它们,我可以自己使用,但我不能把它们换掉.
79	So in one sense, an unalienable right, a non-transferable right,	所以从某种意义上说,不可剥夺的权利,不可转让的权利,
80	makes something I own less fully mine.	使我拥有的东西不那么完全。
81	But in another sense of unalienable rights,	但在另一个不可剥夺的权利意义上,
82	especially where we're thinking about life, liberty and property,	尤其是我们想着生活自由和财产的地方
83	for a right to be unalienable makes it more deeply, more profoundly mine.	一项不可剥夺的权利使它更深刻、更深刻地属于我。
84	And that's Locke's sense of unalienable.	这也是洛克不可剥夺的感觉.
85	We see it in the American Declaration of Independence.	我们在《美国独立宣言》中看到了这一点。
86	Thomas Jefferson drew on this idea of Locke.	托马斯·杰斐逊借鉴了洛克的这个想法.
87	Unalienable rights to life, liberty, and as Jefferson amended Locke, to the pursuit of happiness.	生命,自由的不可剥夺的权利,以及随着杰斐逊修正洛克,追求幸福.
88	Unalienable rights, rights that are so essentially mine,	不可剥夺的权利, 基本上属于我的权利,
89	that even I can't trade them away or give them up.	连我也不能交换他们也不能放弃他们
90	So these are the rights we have in the state of nature.	这就是我们自然界所拥有的权利。
91	Before there is any government, in the case of life and liberty,	在政府之前,在生命和自由方面,
92	I can't take my own life, I can't sell myself into slavery,	我不能夺走自己的生命,我不能把自己出卖为奴隶,
93	any more than I can take somebody else's life or take someone else's slave by force.	我只能夺走别人的性命或者用武力夺走别人的奴隶
94	But how does that work in the case of property?	但是,在财产方面,这有什么作用呢?
95	Because it's essential to Locke's case that private property can arise even before there is any government.	因为对于洛克来说,私人财产甚至在任何政府存在之前都可能出现,这一点至关重要.
96	How can there be a right to private property even before there is any government?	甚至在政府成立之前,怎么会有私有财产权?
97	Locke's famous answer comes in Section 27.	洛克的著名答案出现在第27节.
98	Every man has a property in his own person.	每个人都有自己的财产
99	This nobody has any right to but himself.	只有他自己才有这个权利
100	The labor of his body and the work of his hands, we may say, are properly his.	我们可以说,他身体的劳动和手的劳动是适当的。
101	So he moves, as the libertarians later would move,	所以他动了自由主义者后来会动
102	from the idea that we own ourselves, that we have property in our persons,	从我们拥有自己的思想, 我们拥有自己的财产,
103	to the closely connected idea that we own our own labor.	与我们拥有自己的劳动力这个密切相关的想法。
104	And from that to the further claim that whatever we mix our labor with that is unowned becomes our property.	从那到进一步宣称,无论我们把劳动与无主劳动混为一谈,都变成了我们的财产.
105	Whatever he removes out of the state that nature has provided and left it in,	不管他把大自然提供的东西都从状态中清除出来
106	he has mixed his labor with and joined it to something that is his own and thereby makes it his property.	他把自己的劳动与他的工作混为一谈,并加入了属于他自己的事物,从而使之成为他的财产。
107	Why?	为什么?
108	Because the labor is the unquestionable property of the laborer.	因为劳工是劳工无可置疑的财产.
109	And therefore, no one but the laborer can have a right to what is joined to or mixed with his labor.	因此,只有工人才有权利参与或与他的劳动混合。
110	And then he adds this important provision,	然后他又增加了这个重要条款,
111	at least where there is enough and is good left in common for others.	至少在足够和对他人有好处的地方。
112	But we not only acquire a property in the fruits of the earth, in the deer that we hunt, in the fish that we catch,	但我们不仅在大地的果实、猎杀的鹿和捕捉的鱼中获得财产,
113	but also if we till and plow and enclose the land and grow potatoes,	如果我们能耕田种土豆
114	we own not only the potatoes but the land, the earth.	我们不仅拥有马铃薯而且拥有土地土地
115	As much land as a man tills, plants improves, cultivates, and can use,	和男人一样多的土地植物改良栽培可以使用
116	the product of so much is his property.	如此之多的产物是他的财产。
117	He, by his labor, encloses it from the commons.	他以他的劳绩,把它从公道中夺取。
118	So, the idea that rights are unalienable seems to distance Locke from the libertarian.	因此,权利是不可剥夺的观点似乎与洛克与自由主义者有距离.
119	The libertarian wants to say we have an absolute property right in ourselves,	自由主义者想说我们拥有绝对的财产权
120	and therefore we can do with ourselves whatever we want.	因此,我们可以做我们自己想要的。
121	Locke is not a sturdy ally for that view.	洛克不是那种观点的坚定盟友
122	In fact, he says if you take natural rights seriously,	事实上,他说如果你认真对待自然权利
123	you'll be led to the idea that there are certain constraints on what we can do with our natural rights,	你会被引导到一个想法, 有一些限制我们可以做我们的自然权利,
124	constraints given either by God or by reason reflecting on what it means really to be free.	由上帝或由理性来思考自由的意义
125	And really to be free means recognizing that our rights are unalienable.	真正的自由意味着承认我们的权利是不可剥夺的权利。
126	So, here's the difference between Locke and the libertarians,	所以,这里的区别洛克和自由主义者,
127	but when it comes to Locke's account of private property,	但是关于洛克的私人财产
128	he begins to look again like a pretty good ally,	他开始看起来像一个很好的盟友,
129	because his argument for private property begins with the idea that we are the proprietors of our own person,	因为他关于私有财产的争论始于我们是自己人的主人
130	and therefore of our labor, and therefore of the fruits of our labor,	我们的劳动, 和我们劳动的果实,
131	including not only the things we gather and hunt in the state of nature,	不仅包括我们在自然状态下采集和猎杀的东西,
132	but also we acquire property right in the land that we enclose and cultivate and improve.	也获得我们土地的产权土地的封存、耕种和改善
133	There are some examples that can bring out the moral intuition	有些例子可以说明道德的直觉
134	that our labor can take something that is unowned and make it ours,	我们的劳动可以拿走一些没有所有权的东西使之成为我们的
135	though sometimes there are disputes about this.	虽然有时有争议
136	There's a debate among rich countries and developing countries	富国和发展中国家之间有争论
137	about trade-related intellectual property rights.	关于与贸易有关的知识产权。
138	It came to a head recently over drug patent laws.	药用专利法最近引起了人们的注意
139	Western countries, and especially the United States, say,	西方国家,特别是美国,说:
140	that we have a big pharmaceutical industry that develops new drugs.	我们有一个大型制药工业开发新的药物。
141	We want all countries in the world to agree to respect the patents.	我们希望世界各国同意尊重专利。
142	Then there came along the AIDS crisis in South Africa,	后来南非的艾滋病危机爆发
143	and the American AIDS drugs were hugely expensive,	美国的艾滋病药物非常昂贵,
144	far more than could be afforded by most Africans.	远远超出了大多数非洲人所能提供的范围。
145	So the South African government said,	所以南非政府说,
146	we are going to begin to buy a generic version of the AIDS antiretroviral drug	我们将要开始购买艾滋病抗逆转录病毒药物的通用版本
147	at a tiny fraction of the cost because we can find an Indian manufacturing company	成本的一小部分因为我们能找到一家印度制造公司
148	that figures out how the thing is made and produces it,	找出东西是如何制造和产生的,
149	and for a tiny fraction of the cost we can save lives if we don't respect that patent.	如果我们不尊重专利我们就能挽救生命
150	And then the American government said,	然后美国政府说,
151	no, here's a company that invested research and created this drug.	不,这里的一家公司投资研究并创造了这种药物。
152	You can't just start mass producing these drugs without paying a licensing fee.	你不能不付许可证费就开始大规模生产这些药物。
153	So there was a dispute,	所以发生了争执
154	and the pharmaceutical companies sued the South African government	制药公司起诉南非政府
155	to try to prevent their buying the cheap, generic, as they saw it, pirated version.	试图阻止他们购买廉价的,通用的, 他们看到的,盗版。
156	Of an AIDS drug.	一种艾滋病药物。
157	And eventually the pharmaceutical industry gave in and said,	最后制药业让步并说,
158	all right, you can do that.	好吧,你可以做到这一点。
159	But this dispute about what the rules of property should be,	但关于财产规则应该是什么的争议,
160	of intellectual property, of drug patenting,	知识产权,药物专利,
161	in a way is the last frontier of the state of nature	在某种程度上是自然状态的最后一线
162	because among nations where there is no uniform law of patent rights and property rights,	因为没有关于专利权和财产权的统一法律的国家,
163	it's up for grabs until by some act of consent,	直到得到某种同意
164	some international agreement, people enter into some settled rules.	有些国际协议,人们会遵守一些既定的规则。
165	What about Locke's account of private property	那洛克的私人财产账户呢?
166	and how it can arise before government and before law comes on the scene?	如何在政府和法律出现之前出现?
167	Is it successful?	成功了吗?
168	How many think it's pretty persuasive?	有多少人认为这很有说服力?
169	Raise your hand.	举手曰.
170	How many don't find it persuasive?	有多少人觉得没有说服力?
171	All right, let's hear from some critics.	好吧,让我们听听一些批评者。
172	What is wrong with Locke's account of how private property can arise without consent?	洛克关于私人财产如何不经同意而产生的说法有什么问题?
173	Yes.	对
174	Yeah, I think it justifies European cultural norms as far as,	是的,我认为它证明欧洲文化规范,因为,
175	when you look at how Native Americans may not have cultivated American land,	当你看着美国原住民如何没有种植美国土地,
176	but by their arrival in the Americas,	但随着他们来到美洲
177	because that contributed to the development of America,	因为这有助于美国的发展,
178	which wouldn't have otherwise necessarily happened then or by that specific group.	如果不是那样的话,那就不一定发生或者是那个特定群体干的
179	So you think that this is a defense, this defense of private property in land.	所以你认为这是对土地私有财产的辩护
180	Yes, because it complicates original acquisition	是的,因为它使原始购置变得复杂
181	if you only cite the arrival of foreigners that cultivated the land.	如果你只引用外国人的到来耕种土地。
182	I see.	原来如此
183	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
184	Rochelle.	罗谢尔
185	Rochelle?	罗谢尔?
186	Yeah.	对
187	Rochelle says this account of how property arises	Rochelle说这是财产的产生方式
188	would fit what was going on in North America	和北美发生的事情相符
189	during the time of the European settlement.	在欧洲定居期间。
190	Do you think, Rochelle, that it's a way of defending the appropriation of the land?	罗谢尔,你觉得这是为土地的占有辩护吗?
191	Indeed, because he's also justifying the Glorious Revolution,	事实上因为他也为光荣革命辩护
192	so I don't think it's inconceivable that he's also justifying colonization as well.	所以我不认为他也为殖民辩护是不可思议的。
193	Well, it's an interesting historical suggestion,	这是一个有趣的历史建议,
194	and I think there's a lot to be said for it.	我觉得有很多话要说
195	What do you think of the validity of his argument, though?	你觉得他的论点有效吗?
196	Because if you're right that this would justify the taking of land in North America	因为如果你是对的,这样就可以在北美夺取土地
197	from Native Americans who didn't enclose it,	从美洲原住民那里拿来的,他们没有带
198	if it's a good argument, then Locke's given us a justification for that.	如果这是个好理由那洛克给我们一个理由
199	If it's a bad argument, then Locke's given us a mere rationalization	如果这是个糟糕的争论,那么洛克给了我们一个简单的合理化
200	that isn't morally defensible.	这在道德上是不合理的。
201	I'm leaning to the second one, but that's my opinion as well.	我倾向于第二个,但这也是我的看法。
202	All right.	好吧,我们走。
203	Well, then let's hear if there's a defender of Locke's account of private property,	那让我们听听洛克的私人财产账户是否有维护者
204	and it would be interesting if they could address Rochelle's worry	如果他们能解决罗谢尔的忧虑那会很有趣
205	that this is just a way of defending the appropriation of land	这只是一种捍卫土地占有的方法
206	by the American colonists from the Native Americans who didn't enclose it.	由来自美洲原住民的殖民者,他们没有把它。
207	Is there someone who will defend Locke on that point?	有没有人会为此为洛克辩护?
208	Are you going to defend Locke?	你要为洛克辩护吗?
209	You're accusing him of justifying the European basically massacre of the Native Americans,	你指控他为欧洲屠杀美洲原住民辩护
210	but who says he's defending it?	但谁说他在捍卫它?
211	Maybe the European colonization isn't right.	也许欧洲殖民是不对的
212	Maybe it's the state of war that he talked about in his second treatise.	也许是他在第二部论文中谈到的战争状态.
213	So the wars between the Native Americans and the colonists, the settlers,	美洲原住民和殖民者定居者之间的战争
214	that might have been the state of war that we can only emerge from	我们只能从战争状态中走出
215	by an agreement or an act of consent, and that's what would have been required.	根据协议或同意行为, 这就是需要的。
216	Yeah, and both sides would have had to agree to it and carry it out and everything.	是啊,双方都必须同意并执行它和一切。
217	But what about, and what's your name?	但是,关于什么,你叫什么名字?
218	Dan.	丹语.
219	But Dan, what about, Rochelle says this argument in Section 27 and then in 32	但丹,关于什么,罗谢尔说这个论点在27节,然后在32节
220	about appropriating land, that argument, if it's valid,	关于侵占土地, 如果它是正确的,
221	would justify the settlers appropriating that land and excluding others from it.	让定居者有理由侵占这块土地,将其他人排除在外。
222	You think that argument's a good argument?	你觉得这种争论很好吗?
223	Well, doesn't it kind of imply that the Native Americans hadn't already done that?	难道这不意味着美洲原住民还没有这样做吗?
224	Well, the Native Americans as hunter-gatherers didn't actually enclose land,	美洲原住民作为猎人采集者并没有真正封存土地
225	so I think Rochelle is onto something there.	所以,我认为罗谢尔发现的东西在那里。
226	But I want to, I'd like to, go ahead, Dan.	但我想,我想,继续,丹。
227	At the same time, he's saying that just by picking an acorn or taking an apple	与此同时,他说,只是通过摘下橡子或苹果
228	or maybe killing a buffalo on a certain amount of land,	或者在一定的土地上杀死水牛
229	that makes it yours because it's your labor and that's, you know,	因为它是你的劳动,你知道,
230	your labor would enclose that land.	你的劳动会吞噬那块土地
231	So by that definition, maybe they didn't have fences around little plots of land but didn't...	因此,根据这个定义,也许他们没有围在小块土地周围的栅栏,但是没有...
232	They were using it.	他们用它。
233	Yeah, by Locke's definition.	是的,根据洛克的定义。
234	So maybe by Locke's definition, the Native Americans could have claimed the property right,	所以也许根据洛克的定义美洲原住民可以要求财产权
235	in the land itself.	在土地本身。
236	But they just didn't have Locke on their side, as she points out.	但他们只是没有洛克站在他们一边,正如她所指出的.
237	Okay, that's good.	好吧,这是很好的。
238	One more defender of Locke.	洛克的一位卫士
239	Go ahead.	来吧。
240	Well, I mean, just defend Locke.	嗯,我的意思是,只是为洛克辩护。
241	He does say that there are some times in which you can't take another person's land.	他确实说过,有时你不能夺走别人的土地。
242	For example, you can't acquire land that is common property.	例如,你不能获取作为共同财产的土地.
243	See, people in terms of American Indians,	看,从美国印第安人的角度来说,
244	I feel like they already had civilizations themselves and they were using land in common.	我觉得他们已经有文明了他们正在使用共同的土地
245	So it's kind of like an analogy to what he was talking about	所以,这有点像一个类比他所说的
246	with like the common English property.	和普通的英国财产一样
247	You can't take land that everybody's sharing common.	你不能夺走大家共享的土地
248	Oh, that's interesting.	哦,这很有趣。
249	And also you can't take land unless you make sure that there's as much land as possible left	也不能占地,除非你确保有尽可能多的土地
250	for other people to take as well.	其他人也一样。
251	So if you're taking common...	所以,如果你采取共同点...
252	So you have to make sure that whenever you take land	所以,你一定要确保当你取得土地
253	or that there's enough left for other people to use.	或者说已经足够其他人使用。
254	That's just as good as the land that you took.	这和你夺走的土地一样好
255	That's...	这是...
256	It's true.	这是真的。
257	Locke says there has to be this right to private property in the earth	洛克说地球上必须有私有财产的权利
258	is subject to the provision that there be as much and as good left for others.	须遵守规定,即为他人留有同样多和同样多的剩余时间。
259	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
260	Right.	对
261	I'm Feng.	我叫冯
262	So Feng in a way agrees with Dan that maybe there is a claim within Locke's framework	所以冯从某种程度上同意丹的观点,也许洛克框架内有说法.
263	that could be developed on behalf of the Native Americans.	可以代表美国原住民发展
264	Here's the further question.	更问曰.
265	If the right to private property is natural, not conventional,	如果私有财产权是自然的,而不是常规的,
266	if it's something that we acquire even before we agree to government,	如果这是我们在同意政府之前获得的东西
267	how does that right constrain what a legitimate government can do?	这个权利如何限制一个合法政府能做什么?
268	In order finally to see whether Locke is an ally	为了看洛克是不是盟友
269	or potentially a critic of the libertarian idea of the state,	也可能是国家自由主义思想的批评者,
270	we have to ask what becomes of our natural rights once we enter into society.	我们必须问,一旦我们进入社会,我们的自然权利将如何。
271	We know that the way we enter into society is by consent, by agreement.	我们知道,我们进入社会的方式是通过同意和协议。
272	To lead the state of nature and to be governed by the majority	领导自然状态,受多数人支配
273	and by a system of laws, human laws.	和通过一套法律、人文法律。
274	But those human laws are only legitimate if they respect our natural rights,	但是,这些人权法律只有尊重我们的自然权利才是合法的,
275	if they respect our unalienable rights to life, liberty and property.	如果他们尊重我们不可剥夺的生命、自由和财产权利。
276	No parliament, no legislature,	没有议会,没有立法机构,
277	however democratic its credentials can legitimately violate our natural rights.	无论它的资质多么民主,都可以合法地侵犯我们的自然权利。
278	This idea that no law can violate our right to life, liberty and property	认为任何法律都不能侵犯我们的生命权、自由和财产权的想法
279	would seem to support the idea of a government so limited	似乎支持这样一个政府的想法:
280	that it would gladden the heart of the libertarian after all.	它会高兴的自由主义者的心脏毕竟。
281	But those hearts should not be so quickly gladdened	但那些心不应该这么快高兴
282	because even though for Locke the law of nature persists once government arrives,	因为即使对洛克来说,一旦政府到来,自然法则就一直存在,
283	even though Locke insists on limited government,	尽管洛克坚持有限政府,
284	government limited by the end for which it was created,	以创立政府的目的为限,
285	namely the preservation of property,	即保护财产,
286	even so there's an important sense in which what counts as my property	即便如此也有一种重要的意义那就是什么才是我的财产
287	what counts as respecting my life and liberty are for the government to define.	重要的是尊重我的生命和自由由政府来定义
288	That there be property, that there be respect for life and liberty is what limits government.	有财产,尊重生命和自由是限制政府的因素。
289	But what counts as respecting my life and respecting my property	但重要的是尊重我的生命尊重我的财产
290	that is for governments to decide and to define.	由各国政府决定和界定。
291	How can that be?	怎么会这样?
292	Is Locke contradicting himself or is there an important distinction here?	洛克是自相矛盾,还是在这里有重要的区别?
293	In order to answer that question which will decide Locke's fit with the libertarian view,	为了回答那个决定洛克与自由主义观点相符的问题
294	we need to look closely at what legitimate government looks like for Locke	我们需要仔细观察洛克的合法政府是什么样子
295	and we turn to that next time.	下次再谈这个
296	Nikolai, if you didn't think you'd get caught, would you pay your taxes?	尼古拉,如果你不认为你会被抓到你会交税吗?
297	I have a system personally that I could give money to exactly those sections of the government that I support	我个人有一个系统,我可以给钱恰恰那些政府部门我支持
298	and not just blanket support everything.	不只是毛毯支撑一切。
299	You'd rather be in the state of nature at least on April 15th.	你宁愿在4月15日进入自然状态.
300	Last time we began to discuss Locke's state of nature,	上次我们开始讨论洛克的自然状态
301	his account of private property, his theory of legitimate government	他对私人财产的叙述他的合法政府理论
302	which is government based on consent and also limited government.	这是基于同意的政府以及有限的政府。
303	Locke believes in certain fundamental rights that constrain what government can do	洛克相信某些基本权利限制政府能做什么
304	and he believes that those rights are natural rights, not rights that flow from law or from government.	他认为,这些权利是自然权利,而不是来自法律或政府的权利。
305	And so Locke's great philosophical experiment is to see if he can give an account	所以洛克的伟大的哲学实验就是看看他能不能说出
306	of how there could be a right to private property without consent	如何不经同意而享有私有财产权
307	before government and legislators arrive on the scene to define property.	在政府和立法者到达现场界定财产之前。
308	That's his question, that's his claim.	这是他的问题,这是他的主张。
309	There is a way, Locke argues, to create property not just in the things we gather and hunt	洛克认为,有办法创造财产不只是我们收集的猎物
310	but in the land itself, provided there is enough and is good luck for others.	但是,在土地本身,只要有足够的,并为他人带来好运。
311	Today I want to turn to the question of consent which is Locke's second big idea.	今天我想谈谈同意问题,这是洛克的第二个大主意。
312	Private property is one, consent is the other.	私有财产为一,同意为二.
313	What is the work of consent?	同意有什么作用?
314	People here have been invoking the idea of consent since we began, since the first week.	自从我们开始,从第一个星期开始,这里的人们就一直在援引同意的想法。
315	You remember when we were talking about pushing the fat man off the bridge,	你还记得我们在谈论把胖子推下桥的时候吗?
316	you remember someone said, but he didn't agree to sacrifice himself.	你记得有人说过但他不同意牺牲自己
317	It would be different if he consented.	如果他同意,那会不同。
318	Or when we were talking about the cabin boy, killing and eating the cabin boy.	或者当我们谈论小屋男孩, 杀死和吃小屋男孩。
319	Some people said, well, if they had consented to a lottery it would be different, then it would be alright.	一些人说,如果同意彩票,那就不一样了,那就没事了。
320	So consent has come up a lot and here in John Locke we have one of the great philosophers of consent.	所以同意已经产生了很多, 在约翰洛克,我们有一个伟大的哲学家同意。
321	Consent is an obvious familiar idea in moral and political philosophy.	同意是道德和政治哲学中显然熟悉的想法。
322	Locke says that legitimate government is government founded on consent and who nowadays would disagree with them.	洛克说合法政府是建立在同意基础上的政府,
323	Sometimes when the ideas of political philosophers are as familiar as Locke's ideas about consent,	有时当政治哲学家的想法和洛克关于同意的想法一样熟悉时,
324	it's hard to make sense of them or at least to find them very interesting.	很难理解他们或者至少发现他们非常有趣
325	But there are some puzzles, some strange features of Locke's account of consent as the basis of legitimate government.	但有一些谜题,一些奇怪的特征是洛克关于同意的说法是合法政府的基础.
326	And that's what I'd like to take up today.	而今欲举此.
327	One way of testing the plausibility of Locke's idea of consent and also probing some of its perplexities	一种检验洛克同意的想法是否合理的方法也检验它的一些疑惑
328	is to ask just what a legitimate government founded on consent can do.	而是问一个建立在同意基础上的合法政府能做什么。
329	What are its powers according to Locke?	洛克认为它的威力是什么?
330	Well, in order to answer that question it helps to remember what the state of nature is like.	为了回答这个问题它有助于记住大自然的状态
331	Remember the state of nature is the condition that we decide to leave and that's what gives rise to consent.	记住大自然的状态是我们决定离开的条件,而这正是引起同意的条件.
332	Why not stay there?	为什么不呆在那里?
333	Why bother with government at all?	为什么要烦政府?
334	Well, what's Locke's answer to that question?	那么,洛克的答案是什么?
335	He says there are some inconveniences in the state of nature, but what are those inconveniences?	他说自然界有些不便,但有什么不便?
336	The main inconvenience is that everyone can enforce the law of nature.	主要的不便在于每个人都可以执行自然法则.
337	Everyone is an enforcer or what Locke calls the executor of the state of nature.	每个人都是执行者或者洛克所说的自然状态的执行者
338	And he means executor literally.	他的意思是执行者
339	If someone violates the law of nature, he's an aggressor, he's beyond reason, and you can punish him.	如果有人违反自然法则,他是一个侵略者,他是没有理智的,你可以惩罚他.
340	And you don't have to be too careful or fine about gradations of punishment in the state of nature.	而自然状态下的处罚等级,也不必过于谨慎或罚款.
341	You can kill him.	你可以杀了他。
342	You can certainly kill someone who comes after you, tries to murder you.	你当然可以杀死一个追杀你的人试图谋杀你
343	That's self-defense.	这是自卫
344	But the enforcement power, the right to punish, everyone can do the punishing in the state of nature.	但执法权,惩罚权,每个人都可以在自然状态下进行惩罚.
345	And not only can you punish with death people who come after you, seeking to take your life,	你不仅能惩罚那些追杀你想要夺走你生命的人
346	you can also punish a thief who tries to steal your goods.	你也可以惩罚一个偷你东西的小偷
347	Because that also counts as aggression against the law of nature.	因为这也构成对自然法则的侵犯。
348	If someone has stolen from a third party, you can go after him.	如果有人偷了第三方的东西你可以去追他
349	Why is this?	为什么?
350	Well, violations of the law of nature are an act of aggression.	违反自然法则是侵略行为
351	There is no police force.	没有警察部队。
352	There are no judges, no juries.	没有法官没有陪审团
353	So everyone is the judge in his or her own case.	所以每个人都是自己案件的法官。
354	And Locke observes that when people are the judges of their own cases, they tend to get carried away.	而洛克观察到,当人们成为自己案件的裁判时,他们往往会变得心烦意乱.
355	And this gives rise to the inconvenience in the state of nature.	这引起了自然状态的不便.
356	People overshoot the mark.	人射过目标
357	There's aggression.	有侵犯.
358	There's punishment.	有罚.
359	And before you know it, everybody is insecure in the enjoyment of his or her unalienable rights to life, liberty and property.	在你们知道之前,每个人都在享受其不可剥夺的生命、自由和财产权利方面不安全。
360	Now he describes in pretty harsh and even grim terms what you can do to people who violate the law of nature.	现在他用非常严酷,甚至严酷的语气,描述你能对违反自然法则的人做些什么.
361	One may destroy a man who makes war upon him for the same reason that he may kill a wolf or a lion.	人们可以摧毁一个为杀死狼或狮子而对他开战的人.
362	Such men have no other rule but that of force and violence.	这些人除了武力和暴力之外没有其他规则。
363	Listen to this.	听这个。
364	And so may be treated as beasts of prey, those dangerous and noxious creatures that will be sure to destroy you if you fall into their power.	也可能会被当成猎物的野兽那些危险和有毒的生物如果你落入他们的魔掌一定会毁灭你
365	So kill them first.	先杀了他们
366	So what starts out as a seemingly benign state of nature where everyone's free and yet where there is a law and the law respects people's rights	因此,什么是似乎良性自然状态, 每个人的自由, 但有法律和法律尊重人民的权利
367	and those rights are so powerful that they're unalienable.	这些权利是如此的强大,以至于不可剥夺。
368	What starts out looking very benign once you look closer is pretty fierce and filled with violence.	一旦你看起来更近就会变得非常善良并且充满暴力
369	And that's why people want to leave.	故众生欲离.
370	How do they leave?	他们怎么走?
371	Well, here's where consent comes in.	同意书在这里
372	The only way to escape from the state of nature is to undertake an act of consent where you agree to give up the enforcement power	逃避自然状态的唯一办法就是同意放弃执行权
373	and to create a government or a community where there will be a legislature to make law	* 建立一个政府或社区,由立法机构制定法律;
374	and where everyone agrees in advance, everyone who enters, agrees in advance to abide by whatever the majority decides.	在每个人都事先同意的情况下,进入的每个人都事先同意遵守多数人的决定。
375	But then the question, and this is our question and here's where I want to get your views,	但问题是,这是我们的问题我想在这里得到你的看法,
376	then the question is what powers, what can the majority decide?	那么问题是,什么是权力,什么是多数能决定?
377	Now here it gets tricky for Locke because you remember alongside the whole story about consent and majority rule,	这对洛克来说很棘手因为你记得关于同意和多数人规则的全说
378	there are these natural rights, the law of nature, these unalienable rights.	有这些自然权利,自然法则,这些不可剥夺的权利.
379	And you remember they don't disappear when people join together to create a civil society.	你还记得当人们联手创建公民社会时他们不会消失的
380	So even once the majority is in charge, the majority can't violate your inalienable rights,	因此,即使多数人当权,多数人也不能侵犯你不可剥夺的权利,
381	can't violate your fundamental right to life, liberty and property.	不能侵犯你的基本生命、自由和财产权利。
382	So here's the puzzle.	这就是谜题。
383	How much power does the majority have?	多数人有多少权力?
384	How limited is the government created by consent?	经同意成立的政府有多么有限?
385	It's limited by the obligation on the part of the majority to respect	它受到多数人尊重的义务的限制
386	and to enforce the fundamental natural rights of the citizens.	并落实公民的基本自然权利。
387	They don't give those up, we don't give those up when we enter government.	他们不放弃这些,我们进入政府时不放弃这些.
388	That's this powerful idea taken over from Locke by Jefferson in the declaration.	这就是Jefferson在宣言中从洛克手中接管的强大想法.
389	Unalienable rights.	不可剥夺的权利。
390	So let's go to our two cases.	因此,让我们去我们的两个案件。
391	Remember Michael Jordan, Bill Gates, the libertarian objection to taxation for redistribution?	记得迈克尔・乔丹,比尔・盖茨, 自由主义者反对税收重新分配?
392	Well, what about Locke's limited government?	那洛克的有限政府怎么办?
393	Is there anyone who thinks that Locke does give grounds for opposing taxation for redistribution?	是否有人认为洛克确实为反对再分配征税提供了理由?
394	Anybody?	有人吗?
395	Go ahead.	来吧。
396	If the majority rules that there should be taxation,	如果多数人裁定应征税,
397	even if the minority should still not have to be taxed because that's taking away property,	即使少数人仍不必纳税因为那会夺走财产
398	which is one of the rights of nature.	这是自然的权利之一。
399	Alright, so, and what's your name?	好吧,那么,你叫什么来着?
400	Ben.	宾.
401	So if the majority taxes the minority without the consent of the minority to that particular tax law,	因此,如果多数人未经少数人同意而向该少数人征税,那么,
402	it does amount to a taking of their property without their consent	这确实等于未经他们同意而夺走他们的财产。
403	and it would seem that Locke should object to that.	洛克似乎应该反对
404	Do you want some textual support for your view, for your reading of Locke, Ben?	你想从文字上支持你的观点吗?
405	Alright.	还好
406	I brought some along just in case you raised it.	我带来了一些以防你提起来
407	If you have your texts, look at passage 138.	如果你有短信,请看138段。
408	The supreme power by which Locke means the legislature cannot take from any man any part of his property	洛克的最高权力意味着立法机构不能从任何人手中夺走他财产的任何部分
409	without his own consent for the preservation of property being the end of government	在未经本人同意的情况下,保护财产是政府的终结;
410	and that for which men enter into society, it necessarily supposes and requires that people should have property.	以及男人进入社会,它必然设想和要求人们应该拥有财产。
411	That was the whole reason for entering society in the first place, to protect the right to property.	这就是首先进入社会保护财产权的整个原因。
412	And when Locke speaks about the right to property, he often uses that as a kind of global term for the whole category,	当洛克谈到财产权时他经常用它作为整个范畴的全球术语
413	the right to life, liberty and property.	生命权、自由和财产权。
414	So that part of Locke, that beginning of 138, seems to support Ben's reading.	所以洛克的部分,即138开头,似乎支持本的阅读.
415	But what about the part of 138, if you keep reading?	如果你继续读的话,那138的那部分呢?
416	Men therefore in society having property, they have such a right to the goods which by the law of the community are theirs.	因此,在社会中,男人拥有财产,因此他们有权获得社区法律规定属于他们的财产。
417	Look at this.	看看这个。
418	And that no one can take from them without their consent.	未经他们同意,任何人不得夺走他们的财产。
419	And then at the end of this passage he says,	然后,在这个段落的结尾,他说,
420	so it's a mistake to think that the legislative power can do what it will	因此,认为立法权可以做它会做的是一个错误
421	and dispose of the estates of the subject arbitrarily or take any part of them at pleasure.	任意处置主体的遗产或随意占有其中任何一部分。
422	Here's what's elusive.	这是难以捉摸的
423	On the one hand he says, the government can't take your property without your consent.	一方面,他说,政府不能抢走你的财产没有你的同意。
424	He's clear about that.	他很清楚这一点。
425	But then he goes on to say, and that's the natural right to property,	但是他接着说这就是财产权
426	but then it seems that property, what counts as property, is not natural but conventional, defined by the government.	但是,财产, 重要的财产, 并不是自然的,而是传统的, 由政府定义。
427	The goods which by the law of the community are theirs.	根据社区法律属于他们的商品。
428	And the plot thickens if you look ahead to section 140.	如果你往前看140节情节就会变厚
429	In 140 he says, governments can't be supported without great charge.	在140年,他说,没有伟大的指控,政府不能得到支持.
430	Government is expensive.	政府费用昂贵。
431	And it's fit that everyone who enjoys his share of the protection should pay out of his estate.	每一个享受他那份保护的人都应该从他的庄园里付出代价
432	And then here's the crucial line.	接下来是关键线。
433	But still it must be with his own consent, i.e.	但还是得征得他本人的同意
434	the consent of the majority,	多数同意,
435	giving it either by themselves or through their representatives.	由自己或通过其代表给予。
436	So what is Locke actually saying?	洛克到底在说什么?
437	Property is natural in one sense but conventional in another.	财产在某种意义上是自然的,但在另一种意义上是传统的。
438	It's natural in the sense that we have a fundamental unalienable right,	从我们拥有不可剥夺的基本权利的意义上讲,这是自然的,
439	that there be property, that the institution of property exist and be respected by the government.	财产的存在和政府的尊重。
440	So an arbitrary taking of property would be a violation of the law of nature and would be illegitimate.	因此,任意夺取财产将违反自然法则,并且是非法的。
441	But it's a further question.	却再问.
442	Here's the conventional aspect of property.	这是财产的传统方面。
443	It's a further question what counts as property, how it's defined and what counts as taking property.	还有一个问题,什么是财产,什么是财产,什么是财产的定义,什么是夺取财产。
444	And that's up to the government.	这得由政府决定
445	So the consent, here we're coming back to our question, what is the work of consent?	所以,同意,这里我们回到我们的问题, 什么是同意的工作?
446	What it takes for taxation to be legitimate is that it be by consent,	税收必须经同意才能合法,
447	not the consent of Bill Gates himself if he's the one who has to pay the tax,	不是比尔·盖茨本人同意的如果他是必须交税的人
448	but by the consent that he and we, all of us within the society, gave	但经他和我们社会所有人同意
449	when we emerged from the state of nature and created the government.	当我们从自然状态中崛起并创建了政府。
450	In the first place, it's the collective consent.	首先,这是集体同意。
451	And by that reading, it looks like consent is doing a whole lot	读起来似乎同意是大功告成了
452	and the limited government consent creates isn't all that limited.	而有限的政府同意并不是所有的有限。
453	Does anyone want to respond to that or have a question about?	有没有人想回答这个问题或提出问题?
454	Go ahead, stand up.	来吧,站起来。
455	I'm just wondering what Locke's view is on once you have a government that's already in place,	我只是想知道洛克的观点是什么一旦你有一个政府已经成立,
456	whether it is possible for people who are born into that government	出生于该政府的人是否可以
457	to then leave and return to the state of nature.	然后离开,回到自然状态
458	I don't think that Locke mentioned that at all.	我觉得洛克根本没提过
459	What do you think?	你觉得呢?
460	Well, I think as the convention, it would be very difficult to leave the government	我觉得作为大会离开政府会很困难
461	because you are no longer, because nobody else is just living in the state of nature,	因为你不再是了因为没有其他人只是生活在自然状态中
462	everybody else is now governed by this legislature.	其他人现在都由这个立法机构管理。
463	What would it mean today, you're asking, and what's your name?	今何谓,汝问之,何谓?
464	Nicola.	尼可拉尼可拉尼可拉
465	Suppose you wanted to leave civil society today.	假设你今天想离开公民社会
466	You want to withdraw your consent and return to the state of nature.	你想收回你的同意回到自然状态
467	Well, because you didn't actually consent to it, you were just born into it.	嗯,因为你实际上没有同意它, 你只是出生在它。
468	It was your ancestors who joined.	是你祖先加入我们的
469	Right.	对
470	You didn't sign the social contract.	你没有签署社会契约。
471	I didn't sign it.	我没有签
472	Exactly.	没错
473	All right.	好吧,我们走。
474	So what does Locke say there?	洛克怎么说?
475	Yeah.	对
476	I don't think Locke says that you have to sign anything.	我不认为洛克说你必须签署任何事情。
477	I think that he says that it's kind of implied consent.	我认为他说这是暗示同意
478	By leaving and taking government services, you are implying that you are consenting to the government taking things from you.	你离开和接受政府服务意味着你同意政府拿走你的东西
479	All right.	好吧,我们走。
480	So implied consent, that's a partial answer to this challenge.	因此暗示同意,这是这个挑战的部分答案.
481	Now, you may not think that implied consent is as good as the real thing.	现在,你可能不认为暗示同意是与真实的一样好。
482	Is that what you're shaking your head about, Nicola?	这就是你摇头的原因吗,尼古拉?
483	Speak up.	说吧
484	Stand up and speak up.	起身说话.
485	I don't think that necessarily just by utilizing the government's, you know, various resources that we are necessarily implying that we agree with the way that this government was formed or that we have consented to actually join into the social contract.	我并不认为光是利用政府的各种资源, 我们必然意味着我们同意政府的组成方式, 或者同意加入社会契约。
486	So you don't think the idea of implied consent is strong enough to generate any obligation at all to obey the government?	所以,你不认为暗示同意的想法足够强大产生任何义务服从政府?
487	Not necessarily, no.	不一定,没有。
488	Nicola, if you didn't think you'd get caught, would you pay your taxes?	尼可拉,如果你没想到你会被抓你会交税吗?
489	I would rather have a system personally that I would that I could give money to exactly those sections of the government that I support and not just blanket support.	我个人更希望有一套制度, 我可以给那些我支持的政府部门钱,
490	You'd rather be in the state of nature, at least on April 15th.	你宁愿进入自然状态至少是在4月15日
491	But what I'm trying to get at is, do you consider that you're under no obligation since you haven't actually entered into any act of consent?	但是,我想得到的是,你是否认为你没有义务因为你没有真正达成任何同意行为?
492	But for prudential reasons, you do what you're supposed to do according to the law.	但出于谨慎之故,依律行其应.
493	Exactly.	没错
494	If you look at it that way, then you're violating another one of Locke's treatises, which is that you can't take anything from anyone else.	如果你这样看,那么你就违反了洛克的另外一本论文,那就是你不能从别人那里夺走任何东西.
495	Like, you can't take the government services and then not give them anything in return.	喜欢,你不能接受政府部门,然后不给他们什么作为回报。
496	If you want to go live in the state of nature, that's fine, but you can't take anything for the government because by the government's terms,	如果你想在自然状态下生活,那很好, 但你不能为政府拿任何东西因为根据政府的规定,
497	which are the only terms under which you can enter the agreement, say that you have to pay taxes to take those things.	这是你唯一可以签订协议的条件, 说,你必须交税才能拿这些东西。
498	So you're saying that Nicola can go back into the state of nature if she wants to, but she can't drive on Mass Ave.	所以,你是说,尼古拉可以回到自然状态如果她想要, 但她不能开车在弥撒Ave。
499	Exactly.	没错
500	I want to raise the stakes beyond using Mass Ave and even beyond taxation.	我想提高赌注超越使用大众Ave 甚至超越税收。
501	What about life?	生活怎么办?
502	What about military conscription?	征兵怎么样?
503	Yes.	对
504	What do you say?	你说什么?
505	Stand up.	站起来
506	First of all, we have to remember that sending people to war is not necessarily implying that they'll die.	首先,我们必须记住,送人参战并不一定意味着他们会死.
507	I mean, obviously, you're not raising their chances here, but it's not a death penalty.	我的意思是,很明显,你没有增加他们的机会在这里, 但这不是死刑。
508	So if you're going to discuss whether or not military conscriptions is equivalent to, you know, suppressing people right to life, you shouldn't approach it that way.	所以,如果你要讨论征兵是否相当于, 你知道, 压制人们的生命权, 你不应该这样做。
509	Secondly, the real problem here is Locke has this view about consent and natural rights, but you're not allowed to give up your natural rights either.	其次,这里真正的问题是洛克对同意和自然权利有这种观点,但是你也不能放弃自己的自然权利.
510	So the real question is, you know, how does he himself figure it out between I agree to give up my life,	所以,真正的问题是,你知道, 他如何自己想出我同意放弃我的生活,
511	give up my property when he talks about taxes or military conscription for the fact, but I guess Locke would be against suicide.	放弃我的财产当他谈论税收或者征兵的事实, 但我猜洛克会反对自杀。
512	And that's still, you know, my own consent.	这也是我本人同意的
513	I agree.	и種
514	Good.	不错
515	All right.	好吧,我们走。
516	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
517	Eric.	爱瑞克
518	So Eric brings us back to the puzzle we've been wrestling with since we started reading Locke.	Eric让我们回到了我们从读洛克书开始就一直在玩的谜题。
519	On the one hand, we have these unalienable rights to life, liberty and property, which means that even we don't have the power to give them up.	一方面,我们拥有这些不可剥夺的生命,自由和财产权利,这意味着即使我们没有权力放弃这些权利.
520	And that's what creates the limits on legitimate government.	这也是对合法政府的限制。
521	It's not what we consent to that limits government.	这不是我们同意的限制政府。
522	It's what we lack the power to give away when we consent that limits government.	这就是我们缺乏权力放弃当我们同意限制政府。
523	That's the that's the point at the heart of Locke's whole account of legitimate government.	这就是洛克整个合法政府说法的核心.
524	But now you say, well, if we can't give up our own life, if we can't commit suicide, if we can't give up our right to property,	但现在你说,如果我们不能放弃我们自己的生命, 如果我们不能自杀,如果我们不能放弃我们的财产权利,
525	how can we then agree to be bound by a majority that will force us to sacrifice our lives or give up our property?	那么,我们如何能够同意受多数人的约束,迫使我们牺牲生命或放弃财产?
526	Does Locke have a way out of this?	洛克有办法吗?
527	Or is he basically sanctioning an all-powerful government despite everything he says about unalienable rights?	或者他基本上是在制裁一个全能的政府,尽管他谈到不可剥夺的权利。
528	Does he have a way out?	他有出路吗?
529	Who would speak here in defense of Locke or make sense, find a way out of this predicament?	谁会在这里为洛克辩护或者说有道理想办法摆脱这种困境?
530	All right, go ahead.	好吧,继续。
531	I feel like there's a general distinction we've made between the right to life that individuals possess and the and the fact that a government cannot take away a single individual's right to life.	我觉得我们对个人拥有的生命权和政府不能剥夺一个人的生命权之间有一般性的区别.
532	I think if you look at conscription as the government picking out certain individuals to go fight in war, then that would be a violation of their rights, their natural right to life.	我认为,如果你把征兵看成是政府挑选某些人去打仗,那么这将侵犯他们的权利,他们的自然生命权。
533	On the other hand, if you have conscription, let's say a lottery, for example, then in that case, I would view that as the population picking their representatives to defend them in the case of war.	另一方面,如果你有征兵,比如说彩票,那么在这种情况下,我就会认为,当人们挑选他们的代表来保卫他们在战争的情况下。
534	The idea being that since the whole population cannot go out there to defend its own right to property, it picks its own representatives through a process that's essentially random.	其理念是,由于全体居民不能到那里去捍卫自己的财产权,所以它通过基本上是随机的过程来选择自己的代表.
535	And then these these sort of elected representatives go out and fight for the rights of the people.	然后这些选举出来的代表出来争取人民的权利。
536	It works very similar.	它的工作非常类似。
537	It works just like an elected government, in my opinion.	我认为,这就像民选政府一样。
538	All right, so an elected government can conscript citizens to go out and defend the way of life, the community that makes the enjoyment of rights possible?	好吧,这样一个民选政府可以征召公民出去捍卫生活方式, 社区使享受权利成为可能?
539	I think I think it can, because to me it seems that it's very similar to the process of electing representatives to legislature.	我认为这是可以的,因为对我来说,它似乎与选举立法机构代表的过程非常相似.
540	Although here it's as if the government is electing by conscription certain citizens to go die for the sake of the whole.	虽然这里似乎政府正通过征兵来选择某些公民去死,
541	Is that consistent with respect for a natural right to liberty?	这是否与尊重自由的自然权利相一致?
542	Well, what I would say there is there's a distinction between picking out individuals and having a random choice of individuals.	我想说的是挑出个人和随机选择个人是有区别的
543	Between picking out, let me make sure, between picking out individuals.	在挑人之间,让我确定, 在挑人之间。
544	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
545	Gokul.	高库尔.
546	Gokul says there's a difference between picking out individuals to lay down their lives and having a general law.	戈库尔说,挑出个人来放下自己的生命,与拥有一般法律是有区别的.
547	I think this is the answer Locke would give, actually.	我认为这是洛克会给出的答案
548	Locke is against arbitrary government.	洛克反对专制政府
549	He's against the arbitrary taking, the singling out of Bill Gates to finance the war in Iraq.	他反对任意夺取,独唱比尔·盖茨资助伊拉克战争.
550	He's against singling out a particular citizen or group of people to go off and fight.	他反对单独挑一个特定的公民或一群人去战斗.
551	But if there's a general law such that the government's choice, the majority's action is non-arbitrary,	但是,如果有一条一般的法律这样政府的选择, 多数的行动是非任意的,
552	it doesn't really amount to a violation of people's basic rights.	这实际上并不等于侵犯人们的基本权利。
553	What does count as a violation is an arbitrary taking because that would essentially say not only to Bill Gates but to everyone.	构成违反的行为是任意的,因为这将不仅对比尔·盖茨,而且对每一个人都意味着。
554	There is no rule of law.	没有法治。
555	There is no institution of property because at the whim of the king or for that matter of the parliament,	没有任何财产制度,因为国王或议会的任意行为,
556	we can name you or you to give up your property or to give up your life.	我们可以给你起名让你放弃你的财产或者放弃你的生命
557	But so long as there is a non-arbitrary rule of law, then it's permissible.	但是只要有非任意的法治,那么是允许的.
558	Now you may say this doesn't amount to a very limited government.	现在你可以说这不等于一个非常有限的政府。
559	And the libertarian may complain that Locke is not such a terrific ally after all.	而自由主义者可能会抱怨洛克毕竟不是那么伟大的盟友.
560	The libertarian has two grounds for disappointment in Locke.	自由主义者在洛克有两个失望的理由.
561	First, that the rights are unalienable and therefore I don't really own myself after all.	第一,权利不可剥夺,因此我毕竟并不真正拥有自己。
562	I can't dispose of my life or my liberty or my property in a way that violates my rights.	我不能以侵犯我权利的方式处置我的生命自由和财产
563	That's disappointment number one.	这是失望的第一。
564	Disappointment number two, once there is a legitimate government based on consent,	失望的第二, 一旦有一个合法政府基于同意,
565	the only limits for Locke are limits on arbitrary takings of life or of liberty or of property.	对洛克的唯一限制是对任意夺取生命、自由或财产的限制。
566	But if the majority decides, if the majority promulgates a generally applicable law	但如果多数人决定,如果多数人颁布普遍适用的法律
567	and if it votes duly according to fair procedures, then there is no violation,	如果它按照公正程序进行投票,那么不存在违反规定的情况,
568	whether it's a system of taxation or a system of conscription.	无论是税收制度还是征兵制度。
569	So it's clear that Locke is worried about the absolute arbitrary power of kings,	所以很明显洛克对国王的绝对专断权力感到担忧,
570	but it's also true, and here's the darker side of Locke,	但这也是事实洛克最黑暗的一面
571	that this great theorist of consent came up with a theory of private property that didn't require consent,	这个伟大的同意论者提出一个私人财产理论不需要同意,
572	that may, and this goes back to the point Rochelle made last time,	这也许, 这回回到罗谢尔上次说的,
573	may have had something to do with Locke's second concern, which was America.	可能和洛克的第二个关切有关也就是美国
574	You remember when he talks about the state of nature, he's not talking about an imaginary place.	你还记得当他谈到自然状态时他不是在说一个想象中的地方
575	In the beginning he says all the world was America, and what was going on in America?	一开始他说,全世界都是美国,美国到底发生了什么?
576	The settlers were enclosing land and engaged in wars with the Native Americans.	定居者包围土地,与美洲原住民开战。
577	Locke, who is an administrator of one of the colonies,	洛克是其中一个殖民地的管理者
578	may have been as interested in providing a justification for private property	可能同样有兴趣为私人财产提供理由
579	through enclosure without consent, through enclosure and cultivation,	未经同意,通过封锁和种植,
580	as he was with developing a theory of government based on consent	因为当时他正在发展一种基于同意的政府理论
581	that would rein in kings and arbitrary rulers.	统治着国王和统治者
582	The question we're left with, the fundamental question we still haven't answered,	我们留下的问题根本的问题我们还没有回答
583	is what then becomes of consent?	然后是同意吗?
584	What work can it do?	还能做什么?
585	What is its moral force?	它的道德力量是什么?
586	What are the limits of consent?	同意的限制是什么?
587	Consent matters not only for governments, but also for markets,	同意不仅对各国政府,而且对市场都很重要,
588	and beginning next time we're going to take up questions of the limits of consent	然后从下次开始我们开始讨论同意的限度问题
589	in the buying and selling of goods.	在买卖商品。
590	Join the conversation.	加入对话。
591	Take a pop quiz.	做个流行测验
592	Watch lectures you've missed and learn a lot more.	看着你错过的讲座学到更多
593	请访问justiceharvard.org.
594	It's the right thing to do.	谓之正法.
595	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
596	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。

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P6 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p06 5. 5.公平的起点是什么 (P6)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p06 5. 5.公平的起点是什么 (P6)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 55:07

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:07	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:29	Today, we turn to the question of distributive justice.	今天,我们谈谈分配司法问题。
0:37	How should income and wealth and power and opportunities be distributed?	收入、财富、权力和机会应如何分配?
0:41	According to what principles?	根据什么原则?
0:44	John Rawls offers a detailed answer to that question.	约翰·罗尔斯详细回答了这个问题。
0:49	And we're going to examine and assess his answer to that question today.	我们今天将审查并评估他对该问题的回答。
0:53	We put ourselves in a position to do so last time	上次我们让自己有能力这么做
0:59	by trying to make sense of why he thinks	试图理解他为什么认为
1:06	that principles of justice are best	正义原则是最好的

展开字幕全文（961 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
2	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
3	Today, we turn to the question of distributive justice.	今天,我们谈谈分配司法问题。
4	How should income and wealth and power and opportunities be distributed?	收入、财富、权力和机会应如何分配?
5	According to what principles?	根据什么原则?
6	John Rawls offers a detailed answer to that question.	约翰·罗尔斯详细回答了这个问题。
7	And we're going to examine and assess his answer to that question today.	我们今天将审查并评估他对该问题的回答。
8	We put ourselves in a position to do so last time	上次我们让自己有能力这么做
9	by trying to make sense of why he thinks	试图理解他为什么认为
10	that principles of justice are best	正义原则是最好的
11	derived from a hypothetical contract.	来源于假设的合同。
12	And what matters is that the hypothetical contract be carried out	重要的是假想合同得到履行
13	in an original position of equality	处于最初平等地位
14	behind what Rawls calls the veil of ignorance.	罗尔斯所说的无知面纱背后
15	So that much is clear.	因此,这一点是明确的。
16	Alright, then let's turn to the principles	好吧,那我们来谈谈原则
17	that Rawls says would be chosen	罗尔斯说将会被选中
18	behind the veil of ignorance.	在无知的面纱后面
19	First, he considers some of the major alternatives.	首先,他考虑了一些主要的替代办法。
20	What about utilitarianism?	功利主义呢?
21	Would the people in the original position	原位的人会吗?
22	choose to govern their collective lives	选择管理他们的集体生活
23	utilitarian principles, the greatest good for the greatest number?	功利主义原则,对最多者最有利?
24	No, they wouldn't, Rawls says.	不,他们不会,罗尔斯说。
25	And the reason is that behind the veil of ignorance	原因是在无知的面纱后面
26	everyone knows that once the veil goes up	大家都知道,一旦面纱升起
27	and real life begins, we will each want to be respected	真正的生活开始,我们每个人都希望得到尊重
28	with dignity, even if we turn out to be a member of a minority.	即使我们是少数派成员也要有尊严
29	We don't want to be oppressed.	我们不想被压迫.
30	And so we would agree to reject utilitarianism	所以我们同意拒绝功利主义
31	and instead to adopt as our first principle	转而采用第一原则
32	equal basic liberties, fundamental rights to freedom of speech,	平等的基本自由,言论自由的基本权利,
33	freedom of assembly, religious liberty,	集会自由、宗教自由、
34	freedom of conscience and the like.	良心自由之类的
35	We wouldn't want to take the chance that we would wind up	我们不想冒这个险
36	as members of an oppressed or despised minority	作为被压迫或鄙视的少数群体的成员
37	with the majority tyrannizing over us.	多数人强暴我们
38	And so Rawls says utilitarianism would be rejected.	所以罗尔斯说功利主义会被拒绝.
39	Rawls写道:
40	of forgetting or at least not taking seriously	忘记或至少不认真对待
41	the distinction between persons.	人与人之间的区别。
42	And in the original position behind the veil of ignorance	在无知的面纱背后
43	we would recognize that and reject utilitarianism.	我们将承认这一点,并拒绝功利主义。
44	We wouldn't trade off our fundamental rights and liberties	我们不会交换我们的基本权利和自由
45	for any economic advantages.	对于任何经济利益。
46	That's the first principle.	这是第一个原则。
47	Second principle has to do with social and economic inequalities.	第二项原则涉及社会和经济不平等。
48	What would we agree to?	我们同意什么?
49	Remember, we don't know whether we're going to wind up	记住,我们不知道我们是否要结束
50	being rich or poor, healthy or unhealthy.	贫富、健康或不健康。
51	We don't know what kind of family we're going to come from,	我们不知道我们来自什么样的家庭
52	whether we're going to inherit millions	我们是否要继承数百万
53	or whether we will come from an impoverished family.	或者我们是否来自一个贫穷的家庭。
54	So we might, at first thought, say,	因此,我们可能, 起初想,说,
55	well, let's require an equal distribution of income and wealth	我们要求收入和财富的平等分配
56	just to be on the safe side.	就是为了安全
57	But then we would realize that we could do better than that	但那样我们就会意识到我们可以做得更好
58	even if we're unlucky and wind up at the bottom.	即使我们不走运却在底部
59	We could do better if we agree to a qualified principle of equality,	如果我们同意一个合格的平等原则,我们可以做得更好,
60	Rawls calls it the difference principle,	罗尔斯称之为区别原则,
61	a principle that says only those social and economic inequalities	一项只说这些社会和经济不平等的原则
62	will be permitted that work to the benefit of the least well-off.	这项工作将有利于最不富裕的人。
63	So we wouldn't reject all inequality of income and wealth.	所以我们不会拒绝收入和财富的所有不平等。
64	We would allow some, but the test would be,	我们可以允许一些,但测试是,
65	do they work to the benefit of everyone, including those,	他们是否为所有人,包括那些
66	or as he specifies the principle, especially those at the bottom.	或如他规定的原则, 特别是那些在底部。
67	Only those inequalities would be accepted behind the veil of ignorance,	只有这些不平等才会被蒙上无知的面纱,
68	and so Rawls argues, only those inequalities	所以罗尔斯认为只有那些不平等
69	that work to the benefit of the least well-off are just.	给最不富裕的人带来好处是公正的。
70	We talked about the examples of Michael Jordan making $31 million a year,	我们谈到了迈克尔・乔丹每年赚3100万美元的例子
71	of Bill Gates having a fortune in the tens of billions.	比尔·盖茨拥有数百亿的财富
72	Would those inequalities be permitted under the difference principle?	差别原则是否允许这些不平等?
73	Only if they were part of a system, those wage differentials,	除非他们属于一个制度,这些工资差别,
74	that actually work to the advantage of the least well-off.	这实际上有利于最不富裕的人。
75	Well, what would that system be?	那这个系统会是什么?
76	Maybe it turns out that as a practical matter,	也许事实上
77	you have to provide incentives to attract the right people to certain jobs,	您必须提供激励吸引合适的人一些工作,
78	and when you do, having those people in those jobs	当你这样做,让这些人在那些工作
79	will actually help those at the bottom.	会帮助那些在底层的人。
80	Strictly speaking, Rawls's argument for the difference principle	严格地说,罗尔斯对区别原则的论点
81	is that it would be chosen behind the veil of ignorance.	这是在无知的面纱后面选择的。
82	Let me hear what you think about Rawls's claim	让我听听你对罗尔斯的主张的看法
83	that these two principles would be chosen behind the veil of ignorance.	在无知的面纱后面选择这两项原则。
84	Is there anyone who disagrees that they would be chosen?	有谁不同意选他们吗?
85	All right, let's start up in the balcony, if that's all right.	好吧,让我们开始在阳台上,如果可以。
86	Go ahead.	来吧。
87	Okay, your argument depends upon us believing that we would argue	好吧,你的论点取决于我们相信我们会争论
88	and set policy or justice from a bottom, for the disadvantaged,	并为处境不利者从下而立政策或公道,
89	and I just don't see from a proof standpoint where we've proven that.	我只是没有从证据的角度看到我们已经证明了这一点。
90	Why not the top?	为什么不是顶部?
91	Right.	对
92	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
93	Mike.	迈克
94	Mike, all right, good question.	迈克,好的,问得好
95	Put yourself behind the veil of ignorance.	置身无知之纱后.
96	Enter into the thought experiment.	进入思想实验.
97	What principles would you choose?	你会选择什么原则?
98	How would you think it through?	你怎么想出来的?
99	Well, I would say things like even Harvard's existence	好吧,我会说的东西像哈佛的存在
100	is an example of preaching toward the top,	这是向上传教的一个例子,
101	because Harvard takes the top academics,	因为哈佛大学是顶尖的学者
102	and I didn't know when I was born how smart I would be,	我不知道当我出生的时候我会有多聪明,
103	but I worked my life to get to a place of this caliber.	但我毕生都是为了找到这个口径的地方
104	Now, if you'd said Harvard's going to randomly take	如果你说哈佛会随机取走
105	1,600 people of absolutely no qualification,	1600人绝对不合格,
106	we'd all be saying, well, there's not much to work for.	我们都会说,嗯,没有什么可以工作的。
107	And so what principle would you choose?	那你选择什么原则?
108	In that situation, I would say a merit-based one,	在这种情况下,我要说,一个择优录取的人,
109	one where I don't necessarily know what I have,	我不一定知道自己有什么
110	but I'd rather have a system that rewards me based on my efforts.	但我宁愿有一个系统奖励我的努力。
111	So you, Mike, behind the veil of ignorance,	所以,你,迈克, 在无知的面纱背后,
112	would choose a merit-based system	将选择择优制度
113	where people are rewarded according to their efforts.	在那里,人们将因自己的努力而获得报酬。
114	All right, fair enough.	好吧,公平点
115	What would you say?	你会说什么?
116	Go ahead.	来吧。
117	My question is if the merit-based argument is based on	我的问题是,基于功绩的论点是否基于
118	when everyone is at a level of equality,	当人人平等的时候,
119	where from that position you're rewarded to where you get,	从那个位置你得到的回报,
120	or is it regardless of what advantages you may have	或者不管你有什么好处
121	when you began your education to get where you are here?	当你开始你的教育得到你在这里?
122	I mean, I think the question you're asking is saying,	我的意思是,我认为你问的问题是说,
123	you know, if you want to look at whatever utilitarianism policy it is,	你知道,如果你想看看无论实用主义政策是什么,
124	do we want to maximize world wealth?	我们想要最大限度地增加世界财富吗?
125	And I think a system that rewards merit	我认为一个奖励功绩的制度
126	is the one that we've pretty much all established	我们几乎都建立了
127	is what is best for all of us,	这是对我们所有人最好的,
128	despite the fact that some of us may be in the second percentile	尽管我们中有些人可能处于第二百分位
129	and some may be in the 98th percentile,	可能有人在九十八分之一,
130	and at the end of the day it lifts that lowest base level,	最终它升起最低的基数,
131	a community that rewards effort as opposed to innate differences.	一个奖励努力而不是内在差异的社区。
132	I don't understand how you're rewarding someone's efforts	我不明白你如何奖励别人的努力
133	who clearly has had, not you, but maybe myself,	谁显然有过,不是你, 但也许我自己,
134	advantages throughout to get where I am here.	整个优势得到我在这里。
135	I mean, I can't say that somebody else who maybe worked as hard as I did	我的意思是,我不能说别人谁也许工作像我一样辛苦
136	would have had the same opportunity to come to a school like this.	也会有同样的机会来这样的学校。
137	All right, let's look at that point.	好吧,让我们来看看这一点。
138	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
139	Kate.	凯特
140	Kate, you suspect that the ability to get into top schools	凯特,你怀疑进入顶尖学校的能力
141	may largely depend on coming from an affluent family,	可能很大程度上取决于来自富裕的家庭,
142	having a favorable family background,	家庭背景良好,
143	social, cultural, economic advantages and so on?	社会,文化,经济等优势?
144	I mean, economic, but yes, social, cultural,	我的意思是,经济,但是的,社会,文化,
145	all of those advantages for sure.	所有这些好处都是肯定的。
146	Someone did a study of the 146 selective colleges	有人研究了146个精选学院
147	and universities in the United States,	美国的大学,
148	and they looked at the students in those colleges and universities	他们看着那些学院和大学的学生
149	to try to find out what their economic background was.	试图找出他们的经济背景。
150	What percentage do you think come from the bottom quarter of the income scale?	你认为收入表的下季度会占多少百分比?
151	You know what the figure is?	你知道是什么吗?
152	Only 3% of students at the most selective colleges and universities	最有选择的学院和大学中只有3%的学生
153	come from poor backgrounds.	出身贫苦
154	Over 70% come from affluent families.	70%以上来自富裕家庭。
155	Let's go one step further then and try to address Mike's challenge.	我们再走一步试着解决迈克的挑战
156	Rawls actually has two arguments, not one,	Rawls实际上有两个论点而不是一个
157	in favor of his principles of justice,	支持他的正义原则,
158	and in particular of the difference principle.	特别是区别原则。
159	One argument is the official argument,	一个论点是官方的论点,
160	what would be chosen behind the veil of ignorance.	愚昧的面纱后面会选择什么
161	Some people challenge that argument saying,	有些人质疑这个论点,
162	maybe people would want to take their chances.	也许人们会想冒险
163	Maybe people would be gamblers behind the veil of ignorance,	也许人们会在无知的面纱背后赌博
164	hoping that they would wind up on top.	希望他们能登上顶峰
165	That's one challenge that has been put to Rawls.	这是对罗尔斯的挑战
166	But backing up the argument from the original position is a second argument,	但支持原立场的论点是第二个论点,
167	and that is a straightforwardly moral argument.	这是直接的道德论点。
168	And it goes like this.	它是这样的。
169	It says, the distribution of income and wealth and opportunities	它说,收入和财富与机会的分配
170	should not be based on factors for which people can claim no credit.	不应基于人们不能要求信贷的因素。
171	It shouldn't be based on factors that are arbitrary from a moral point of view.	它不应该基于从道德角度来说武断的因素.
172	Rawls illustrates this by considering several rival theories of justice.	Rawls通过考虑几个相互竞争的司法理论来说明这一点。
173	He begins with the theory of justice that most everyone these days would reject,	他从正义的理论开始, 大部分人这些天会拒绝,
174	a feudal aristocracy.	一个封建贵族
175	What's wrong with the allocation of life prospects in a feudal aristocracy?	在封建贵族统治下分配生活前景有什么问题?.
176	Rawls says, well, the thing that's obviously wrong about it	罗尔斯说,嗯,那显然是错误的
177	is that people's life prospects are determined by the accident of birth.	人的生活前景是由出生事故决定的。
178	Are you born to a noble family or to the family of peasants and serfs?	你是出身于贵族家庭还是农民和农奴家庭?
179	And that's it.	且道.
180	You can't rise.	你不能站起来。
181	It's not your doing where you wind up or what opportunities you have.	这不是你做什么在那里你结束了或者你有什么机会。
182	But that's arbitrary from a moral point of view.	但从道德角度来看,这是武断的.
183	And so that objection to a feudal aristocracy leads,	因此,反对封建贵族统治,
184	and historically has led people to say, careers should be open to talents.	并且从历史上看,人们会说,事业应该向人才开放。
185	There should be formal equality of opportunity.	应有形式上的机会平等。
186	Regardless of the accident of birth, every person should be free to strive,	无论发生什么意外,每个人都应自由地努力,
187	to work, to apply for any job in the society.	工作,申请任何社会工作。
188	And then if you open up jobs and you allow people to apply	如果你打开工作允许人们申请
189	and to work as hard as they can, then the results are just.	并尽可能努力工作,那么结果就是公正。
190	So it's more or less the libertarian system that we've discussed in earlier weeks.	因此,这或多或少是我们前几周讨论过的百合制度.
191	What does Rawls think about this?	罗尔斯对此有什么看法?
192	He says it's an improvement.	他说这是一个进步。
193	It's an improvement because it doesn't take as fixed the accident of birth.	这是一种改进,因为它并不认为是固定了出生的意外.
194	But even with formal equality of opportunity,	但即使形式上的机会平等,
195	the libertarian conception doesn't extend that, doesn't extend its insight far enough.	自由主义的概念没有扩展, 不够扩展它的洞察力。
196	Because if you let everybody run the race,	因为如果你让每个人都在比赛,
197	everybody can enter the race, but some people start at different starting points,	每个人都可以参加比赛但有些人从不同的起点开始
198	that race isn't going to be fair.	那场比赛是不公平的
199	Intuitively, he says, the most obvious injustice of this system	他直觉地说,这个制度最明显的不公正
200	is that it permits distributive shares to be improperly influenced	它允许分配股票受到不当的影响
201	by factors arbitrary from a moral point of view,	从道德观点来看,
202	such as whether you've got a good education or not,	比如你是否受过良好教育
203	whether you grew up in a family that supported you and developed in you	你是否成长在一个支持你并在你成长的家庭
204	a work ethic and gave you the opportunities.	工作道德,给你机会。
205	So that suggests moving to a system of fair equality of opportunity.	因此,这意味着向公平平等机会制度迈进。
206	And that's really the system that Mike was advocating earlier on.	而这正是迈克之前倡导的系统。
207	What we might call a merit-based system, a meritocratic system.	我们可能称之为择优制度,择优制度。
208	In a fair meritocracy, the society sets up institutions	在一个公平的精英管理中,社会建立了机构
209	to bring everyone to the same starting point before the race begins.	在比赛开始前把大家带到同一个起点
210	Equal educational opportunities.	平等教育机会。
211	Head start programs, for example.	例如头部启动程序.
212	Support for schools in impoverished neighborhoods.	支持贫困街区办学.
213	So that everyone, regardless of their family background,	所以,每个人,不管他们的家庭背景,
214	has a genuinely fair opportunity.	拥有真正公平的机会。
215	Everyone starts from the same starting line.	每个人都从同一个起点开始。
216	Well, what does Rawls think about the meritocratic system?	Rawls对功勋系统有什么看法?
217	Even that, he says, doesn't go far enough in remedying	即便如此,他说,在补救上还不够
218	or addressing the moral arbitrariness of the natural lottery.	或解决自然彩票的道德武断问题。
219	Because if you bring everyone to the same starting point	因为如果你把每个人都带到同一个起点
220	and begin the race, who's going to win the race?	开始比赛,谁能赢得比赛?
221	Who would win?	谁会赢?
222	To use the runners example.	以跑者为例.
223	The fastest runners would win.	最快的跑者会赢
224	But is it their doing that they happen to be blessed	但他们的作为恰好使他们得到祝福
225	with the athletic prowess to run fast?	跑得快吗?
226	So Rawls says, even the principle of meritocracy,	所以罗尔斯说,即使是功勋原则,
227	where you bring everyone to the same starting point,	在那里,你带大家在同一起点,
228	may eliminate the influence of social contingencies and upbringing,	消除社会突发事件和教养的影响,
229	but it still permits the distribution of wealth and income	但是它仍然允许财富和收入的分配
230	to be determined by the natural distribution of abilities and talents.	由能力和才能的自然分布决定。
231	And so he thinks that the principle of eliminating morally arbitrary influences	所以他认为消除道德武断影响的原则
232	and the distribution of income and wealth requires going beyond	收入和财富的分配需要超越
233	what Mike favors, the meritocratic system.	迈克喜欢什么,优异的系统。
234	Now, how do you go beyond?	现在,你如何超越?
235	If you bring everyone to the same starting point	如果你把大家带到同一个起点
236	and you're still bothered by the fact that some are fast runners	你仍然对有些人跑得很快
237	and some are not fast runners, what can you do?	有些不是跑得快的你能怎么办?
238	Well, some critics of a more egalitarian conception	嗯,一些批评更平等的概念
239	say the only thing you can do is handicap the fast runners.	说你唯一能做的就是阻止快速跑者
240	Make them wear lead shoes.	让他们穿铅鞋
241	But who wants to do that?	但谁想这么做?
242	That would defeat the whole point of running the race.	这会击败比赛的全局
243	But Rawls says you don't have to have a kind of leveling equality	但罗尔斯说,你不必有一种平平平等
244	if you want to go beyond a meritocratic conception.	如果你想超越一个优异的概念。
245	You permit, you even encourage those who may be gifted	你允许,你甚至鼓励那些有天赋的人
246	to exercise their talents.	来锻炼他们的才能
247	But what you do is you change the terms on which people are entitled	但你所做的是改变人们的权利条件
248	to the fruits of the exercise of those talents.	以发挥这些才能的成果。
249	And that really is what the difference principle is.	这才是区别原则所在。
250	You establish a principle that says people may benefit from their good fortune,	你确立了一条原则说人们可以从他们的好运气中获益,
251	from their luck in the genetic lottery,	因为他们在遗传性彩票上的运气
252	but only on terms that work to the advantage of the least well-off.	但只能从有利于最不富裕的人的角度出发
253	And so, for example, Michael Jordan can make $31 million,	例如迈克尔·乔丹能赚到3100万美元
254	but only under a system that taxes away a chunk of that	但只有在一个制度下, 税收去掉其中的一小部分
255	to help those who lack the basketball skills that he's blessed with.	帮助那些缺乏篮球技巧的人他的祝福。
256	Likewise, Bill Gates.	同样,比尔盖茨。
257	He can make his billions,	他能赚到几十亿
258	but he can't think that he somehow morally deserves those billions.	但他不能认为他在某种程度上在道德上应该得到那些亿万。
259	Those who have been favored by nature may gain from their good fortune,	被自然所宠爱者,得享其福;
260	but only on terms that improve the situation of those who have lost out.	但只能改善那些输家的处境
261	That's the difference principle.	这就是区别原则。
262	And it's an argument from moral arbitrariness.	而从道德专断论辩.
263	Rawls claims that if you're bothered by basing distributive shares	Rawls声称,如果你被基于分配股份的困扰
264	on factors arbitrary from a moral point of view,	从道德观点来看,
265	you don't just reject a feudal aristocracy for a free market.	你不只是拒绝一个封建贵族自由市场。
266	You don't even rest content with a meritocratic system	你甚至不满足于功勋制度
267	that brings everyone to the same starting point.	这让每个人都来到同一个起点。
268	You set up a system where everyone, including those at the bottom,	你建立了一个系统每个人,包括那些在底层,
269	benefit from the exercise of the talents held by those who happen to be lucky.	受益于那些碰巧幸运的人发挥的才能。
270	What do you think?	你觉得呢?
271	Is that persuasive?	有说服力吗?
272	Who finds that argument unpersuasive, the argument from moral arbitrariness?	谁认为这一论点没有说服力,就是道德武断的论点?
273	Yes.	对
274	I think that in the egalitarian proposition, the more talented people,	我认为,在平等的命题, 更有才华的人,
275	I think it's very optimistic to think that they would still work really hard	我觉得他们还是很努力的很乐观
276	even if they knew that part of what they made would be given away.	即使他们知道自己所造物的一部分,必定要被分舍。
277	So I think that the only way for the more talented people to exercise their talents	所以我觉得只有这样才有才华的人才能发挥才华
278	to the best of their ability is in the meritocracy.	尽他们的最大能力是在功绩管理。
279	And in a meritocracy, what's your name?	在精英统治中你叫什么名字?
280	Kate.	凯特
281	Kate, does it bother you, and Mike, does it bother you,	凯特,你烦不烦,麦克,你烦不烦?
282	that in a meritocratic system, even with fair equality of opportunity,	在一个优异的制度中,即使有公平的机会平等,
283	people get ahead, people get rewards that they don't deserve	人们先行一步,得到他们不配得到的奖励
284	simply because they happen to be naturally gifted?	就因为他们天生有天赋?
285	What about that?	怎么样?
286	I think that it is arbitrary, and obviously it's arbitrary,	我认为这是武断的很明显是武断的
287	but I think that correcting for it would be detrimental.	但我认为纠正会有害的
288	Because it would reduce incentives, is that why?	因为这样会减少激励,这就是为什么?
289	It would reduce incentives, yeah.	这会减少激励,是的。
290	Mike, what do you say?	迈克,怎么样?
291	We're all sitting in this room, and we have undeserved glory	我们都坐在这间屋子里我们拥有无耻的荣耀
292	of some sorts, that you should not be satisfied with the process of your life	某种程度上,你不应该满足你的生活过程
293	because you have not created any of this.	因为你没有创造任何这些。
294	And I think from a standpoint of not just this room, us being upset,	我从不光是这间屋子的角度来看我们很不高兴
295	but from a societal standpoint, we should have some kind of a gut reaction	但从社会角度看,我们应该有某种直觉的反应
296	to that feeling that the guy who runs the race, he actually harms us	那种感觉跑车的那个人他实际上伤害了我们
297	as opposed to maybe makes me run that last 10 yards faster,	而不是让我跑得更快
298	and that makes the guy behind me run 10 yards faster,	这让我后面的人跑得更快十码
299	and the guy behind him 10 yards faster.	和他后面的人更快10码。
300	All right, so Mike, let me ask you, you talked about effort before.	好吧,所以迈克,让我问你, 你之前谈到努力。
301	Effort.	奋发精进.
302	Do you think when people work hard to get ahead and succeed,	你认为当人们努力工作取得领先和成功,
303	that they deserve the rewards that go with effort?	难道他们要受报应吗?
304	Isn't that the idea behind your defense?	这不是你辩护背后的想法吗?
305	I mean, of course, bring Michael Jordan here, I'm sure you can get him,	我的意思是,当然,带迈克尔乔丹在这里, 我相信你可以得到他,
306	and have him come and defend himself about why he makes $31 million,	让他来为自己辩护他为什么赚了3100万美元
307	and I think what you're going to realize is his life was a very, very tough one	我想你会意识到他的生活是非常,非常艰难的
308	to get to the top, and that we are basically being the majority oppressing the minority	我们基本上是压迫少数的多数人
309	in a different light.	以不同的光线。
310	It's very easy to pick on him, very easy.	这很容易挑他,非常容易。
311	All right, effort.	好吧努力点
312	You know what, you've got, you've persuaded a lot of people.	你知道,你有, 你说服了很多人。
313	Effort.	奋发精进.
314	You know what Raul's answer to that is?	你知道劳尔的答案是什么吗?
315	Even the effort that some people expend, conscientious striving, the work ethic,	甚至有些人付出的努力, 认真努力,工作道德,
316	even effort depends a lot on fortunate family circumstances	甚至努力都取决于幸运的家庭环境
317	through which you, we, can claim no credit.	通过它,你,我们,不能要求任何功劳。
318	Now, let's, we're going to let, let's do the test.	现在,让我们,我们要让,让我们做测试。
319	Let's do a test here.	我们来测试一下
320	Never mind economic class, those differences are very significant.	不论经济等级,这些差异都非常重要。
321	Put those aside.	把这些放在一边。
322	Psychologists say that birth order makes a lot of difference	心理学家说,出生顺序有很多不同
323	in work ethic striving effort.	在职业道德努力。
324	How many here?	这里有多少人?
325	Raise your hand, those of you here who are first in birth order.	举起你的手,你们这些先出生的人
326	I am too, by the way.	顺便说一句,我也是
327	Mike, I noticed you raised your hand.	迈克,我注意到你举起手来了
328	If the case for the meritocratic conception is that effort should be rewarded,	如果功绩主义的概念是,应该奖励这种努力,
329	doesn't Raul's have a point that even effort striving work ethic is largely shaped?	劳尔的一点不就是即使努力工作道德也基本成型吗?
330	Even by birth order.	乃至以出生令为体.
331	Is it your doing?	是你干的吗?
332	Is it your doing that you were first in birth order?	是你先生的吗?
333	Then why, Raul says, of course not.	那为什么,劳尔说,当然不是。
334	So why should income and wealth and opportunities in life	因此,为什么收入和财富以及生活中的机会
335	be based on factors arbitrary from a moral point of view?	从道德角度来看,是否基于任意因素?
336	That's a challenge that he puts to market societies,	这是他对市场社会的挑战,
337	but also to those of us at places like this.	也是为了我们这些人
338	A question to think about for next time.	下次想个问题
339	A justice of the United States Supreme Court.	美国最高法院法官.
340	What do they make?	他们做的是什么?
341	It's just under $200,000.	刚刚不到二十万
342	But there's another judge who makes a lot more than Sandra Day O'Connor.	但有另一位法官比桑德拉·戴·奥康纳赚得更多.
343	You know who it is?	你知道是谁吗?
344	Judge Judy, how did you know that?	朱迪法官你怎么知道这个的?
345	Judge Judy, you know how much she makes?	Judy法官你知道她赚了多少钱吗?
346	$25 million.	2500万美元。
347	Now, is that just?	是这样吗?
348	Is it fair?	公平吗?
349	We ended last time with that remarkable poll.	上次的民意调查结束了
350	Do you remember the poll about birth order?	你还记得关于出生令的民意调查吗?
351	What percentage of people in this room raised their hands	这房间里有多少人举起手来
352	to say that they were the first born?	说他们是第一个出生的?
353	75, 80 percent?	75,80%吗?
354	And what was the significance of that	这有什么意义?
355	if you're thinking about these theories of distributive justice?	如果你在考虑这些分配正义的理论?
356	Remember, we were discussing three different theories of distributive justice.	记住,我们在讨论分配正义的三个不同理论。
357	Three different ways of answering the question,	有三种不同的回答方式,
358	how should income and wealth and opportunities	收入、财富和机会如何
359	and the good things in life be distributed?	生活中的佳物,是分配的。
360	And so far we've looked at the libertarian answer	目前为止,我们已经看自由主义的答案
361	that says the just system of distribution	这说明公正的分配系统
362	is a system of free exchange, of free market economy,	自由交换制度,自由市场经济,
363	against a background of formal equality,	在形式上平等的背景下,
364	which simply means that jobs and careers are open to anyone.	也就是说,工作和事业是向任何人开放的。
365	Rawls says this represents an improvement	罗尔斯说这是个进步
366	over aristocratic and caste systems	超越贵族和种姓制度
367	because everyone can compete for every job,	因为每个人都可以竞争每份工作,
368	careers open to talents.	职业向人才开放。
369	And beyond that, the just distribution is the one that results	此外,公正的分配是结果
370	from free exchange, voluntary transactions.	自由交换、自愿交易。
371	No more, no less.	无余无余.
372	Then Rawls argues,	然后罗尔斯说,
373	if all you have is formal equality, jobs open to everyone,	如果你只有形式上的平等, 工作向所有人开放,
374	the result is not going to be fair.	结果是不公平的。
375	It will be biased in favor of those	将偏向于那些
376	who happen to be born to affluent families,	他们是富裕家庭的后裔,
377	who happen to have the benefit of good educational opportunities.	享受良好教育机会。
378	And that accident of birth is not a just basis	和这个意外的出生不只是根据
379	for distributing life chances.	分配生命的机会。
380	And so many people who notice this unfairness, Rawls argues,	如此多注意到这种不公平的人 Rawls认为
381	are led to embrace a system of fair equality of opportunity.	导致接受公平平等机会制度。
382	That leads to the meritocratic system, fair equality of opportunity.	这导致了优异的制度,公平的机会平等。
383	But Rawls says, even if you bring everyone	但罗尔斯说,即使你带大家来
384	to the same starting point in the race,	在比赛的同一个起点,
385	what's going to happen?	会发生什么事?
386	Who's going to win?	谁会赢?
387	The fastest runners.	跑得最快的选手
388	So once you're troubled by basing distributive shares	所以一旦你被分配股困扰
389	on morally arbitrary contingencies,	道德上任意的意外事件,
390	you should, if you reason it through,	你应该,如果你解释它通过,
391	be carried all the way to what Rawls calls the democratic conception,	被一路带到罗尔斯所说的民主概念,
392	a more egalitarian conception of distributive justice	更平等的分配公正概念
393	that he defines by the difference principle.	他用不同的原则来定义
394	Now he doesn't say that the only way to remedy	现在他没有说唯一的补救方法
395	or to compensate for differences in natural talents and abilities	或补偿天赋和能力的差异;
396	is to have a kind of leveling equality,	这是一种平等,
397	a guaranteed equality of outcome.	保证结果平等。
398	But he does say there's another way to deal with these contingencies.	但他确实说有另一种方法来处理这些突发事件
399	People may gain, may benefit from their good fortune,	人或许得益,或许得福。
400	but only on terms that work to the advantage of the least well off.	但只能从对最不富裕的人有利的条件出发
401	And so we can test how this theory actually works	所以我们可以测试这个理论是如何实际运作的
402	by thinking about some pay differentials that arise in our society.	想想我们社会中产生的一些工资差异。
403	What does the average school teacher make in the United States, do you suppose?	在美国,普通的老师能做什么?
404	Roughly.	大约吧
405	It's a little more, 40,000, 42,000.	多一点,四万,四万二千
406	What about David Letterman?	大卫·莱特曼呢?
407	How much do you think David Letterman makes?	你觉得大卫·莱特曼能赚多少钱?
408	More than a school teacher?	不只是老师?
409	$31 million, David Letterman.	3100万美元,大卫・莱特曼。
410	Is that fair?	公平吗?
411	That David Letterman makes that much more than a school teacher?	那个大卫·莱特曼做的不只是一个老师?
412	Well, Rawls' answer would be,	罗尔斯的回答是,
413	it depends whether the basic structure of society is designed in such a way	这取决于社会的基本结构是否以这种方式设计
414	that Letterman's $31 million is subject to taxation	莱特曼的3100万要缴税
415	so that some of those earnings are taken to work for the advantage	这样,这些收入中有一部分可以用来谋取利益。
416	of the least well off.	最不富裕的人
417	One other example of a pay differential.	另一个工资差别的例子。
418	A Justice of the United States Supreme Court.	美国最高法院法官。
419	What do they make?	他们做的是什么?
420	It's just under $200,000.	刚刚不到二十万
421	Here's Sandra Day O'Connor, for example.	例如桑德拉·戴·奥康纳
422	There she is.	她来了
423	But there's another judge who makes a lot more than Sandra Day O'Connor.	但有另一位法官比桑德拉·戴·奥康纳赚得更多.
424	Do you know who it is?	你知道是谁吗?
425	Judge Judy.	法官朱迪。
426	How did you know that?	你怎么知道这个的?
427	You watch?	你看吗?
428	No, but you're right.	不,但你说得对。
429	Judge Judy.	法官朱迪。
430	Do you know how much she makes?	你知道她赚多少钱吗?
431	There she is.	她来了
432	$25 million.	2500万美元。
433	Now, is that just?	是这样吗?
434	Is it fair?	公平吗?
435	Well, the answer is it depends whether	答案是,这取决于
436	this is against a background system	这是一个背景系统
437	in line with the difference principle	根据差别原则
438	where those who come out on top in terms of income and wealth are taxed	在那日,有收入和财富的人,将被课税。
439	in a way that benefits the least well off members of society.	给社会上最不富裕的人带来好处
440	Now, we're going to come back to these wage differentials,	现在,我们将回到这些工资差异,
441	pay differentials between a real judge and a TV judge,	真正的法官与电视法官的薪酬差别
442	the one Marcus watches all the time.	马库斯一直看着他
443	What I want to do now is return to these theories	我现在想做的是回到这些理论
444	and to examine the objections	并审查反对
445	to Rawls's more egalitarian theory,	对罗尔斯更平等的理论,
446	the difference principle.	区别原则。
447	There are at least three objections	至少有三个反对
448	to Rawls's difference principle.	到罗尔斯的区别原则。
449	One of them came up last time in the discussion	上次讨论的时候,他们中的一个出现了
450	and a number of you raised this worry.	你们中的一些人提出了这种忧虑。
451	What about incentives?	那奖励呢?
452	Isn't there the risk if taxes reach 70, 80, 90 percent marginal rate	如果税收达到70,80,90%的边际税率,那就没有风险吗?
453	that Michael Jordan won't play basketball,	迈克尔乔丹不会打篮球,
454	that David Letterman won't do late night comedy,	大卫莱特曼不会做深夜喜剧,
455	or that CEOs will go into some other line of work?	或者CEO会参与其他工作?
456	Now, who among those who are defenders of Rawls,	现在,谁是罗尔斯的维护者,
457	who has an answer to this objection about the need for incentives?	谁能回答这种关于需要奖励的反对意见?
458	Yes, go ahead, stand up.	是的,继续,站起来。
459	Rawls's idea is that there should only be so much difference	罗尔斯的想法是,应该只有这么多的区别
460	that it helps the least well-off the most.	帮助最不富裕的人
461	So if there's too much equality,	所以,如果有太多的平等,
462	then the least well-off might not be able to watch late night TV	那么,最不富裕的人可能无法看深夜电视
463	or might not have a job because their CEO doesn't want to work.	或者没有工作因为他们的CEO不想工作
464	So you need to find the correct balance	所以你需要找到正确的平衡
465	where taxation still leaves enough incentive	税收仍然有足够的激励
466	for the least well-off to benefit from the talents.	最不富裕的人能够从人才中获益
467	Good.	不错
468	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
469	Tim.	蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆
470	All right, so Tim is saying in effect	好吧,蒂姆说实际上
471	that Rawls takes account of incentives	罗尔斯会考虑奖励
472	and could allow for pay differentials	并且可以允许工资差异
473	and for some adjustment in the tax rate	税率调整
474	to take account of incentives, but Tim points out	不过蒂姆指出,
475	the standpoint from which the question of incentives	B. 奖励问题所依据的观点
476	needs to be considered	需要考虑
477	is not the effect on the total size of the economic pie,	不是对经济派总规模的影响,
478	but instead from the standpoint of the effect	但从效果的角度来看
479	of incentives or disincentives	奖惩措施
480	on the well-being of those at the bottom.	保护底层人民的福祉。
481	Right?	对吧?
482	Good, thank you.	很好谢谢
483	I think that is what Rawls would say.	我想罗尔斯会这么说
484	In fact, if you look in section 17,	事实上,如果你看看第17节
485	where he describes the difference principle,	在那里,他描述了区别原则,
486	he allows for incentives	他允许奖励
487	the naturally advantaged are not to gain	自然优势是不会得到的
488	merely because they are more gifted,	只是因为他们更有天赋,
489	but only to cover the cost of training and education	但只能支付培训和教育费用
490	and for using their endowments	和利用其捐赠
491	in ways that help the less fortunate as well.	帮助那些不幸的人
492	So you can have incentives.	所以,你可以有奖励。
493	You can adjust the tax rate	您可以调整税率
494	if taking too much from David Letterman	如果从大卫·莱特曼那里拿走太多钱
495	or from Michael Jordan or from Bill Gates	迈克尔・乔丹或比尔・盖茨
496	winds up actually hurting those at the bottom.	最终会伤到底部
497	That's the test.	这就是测试。
498	So incentives, that's not a decisive objection	所以奖励,这不是决定性的反对
499	against Rawls' difference principle.	违背罗尔斯的区别原则
500	But there are two weightier, more difficult objections.	但有两个更重,更困难的反对.
501	One of them comes from defenders	其中一个来自维权者
502	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}一个有才华的概念
503	The argument that says, what about effort?	所谓努力的争论呢?
504	What about people working hard,	那么人们努力工作,
505	having a right to what they earn	他们有权挣钱
506	because they've deserved it, they've worked hard for it?	因为他们罪有应得他们为此付出了很大努力?
507	That's the objection from effort and moral desert.	这就是来自努力和道德沙漠的反对.
508	Then there's another objection	还有另一个反对
509	that comes from libertarians.	这是来自自由主义者。
510	And this objection has to do with	而这个反对与
511	reasserting the idea of self-ownership.	重新树立自主自主的思想.
512	Doesn't the difference principle,	不同的原则,
513	by treating our natural talents and endowments	通过对待我们的天赋和天赋
514	as common assets,	作为共同资产,
515	doesn't that violate the idea	这不违反想法
516	that we own ourselves?	是我们自己的?
517	Now, let me deal first	现在,让我先交易
518	with the objection that comes from	与来自
519	the libertarian direction.	自由主义的方向。
520	Milton Friedman writes in his book,	米尔顿·弗里德曼在他的书中写道,
521	Free to Choose, life is not fair.	自由选择,生活是不公平的。
522	And it's tempting to believe	并且它诱人相信
523	that government can rectify	政府可以纠正
524	what nature has spawned.	大自然产生了什么。
525	But his answer is,	但他的答案是, ,
526	the only way to try to rectify that	唯一能纠正这种情况的方法
527	is to have a leveling equality of outcome.	实现结果的平等
528	Everyone finishing the race at the same point	大家都在同一个时间完成比赛
529	and that would be a disaster.	这将是一场灾难。
530	This is an easy argument to answer.	这是一个容易回答的论点。
531	Rawls 处理它
532	in one of the most powerful passages,	在最强大的一段,
533	I think, of the theory of justice.	我认为,正义的理论。
534	It's in section 17.	在第十七节.
535	The natural distribution,	自然分布,
536	and here he's talking about the natural distribution	在这里,他谈论的是自然分布
537	of talents and endowments,	天赋和天赋,
538	is neither just nor unjust.	既不公正也不不公正。
539	Nor is it unjust that persons are born	人出生也不是不公正的
540	into society at some particular position.	以某种特殊地位进入社会。
541	These are simply natural facts.	这些只是自然的事实。
542	What is just and unjust	什么是正义和不公正
543	is the way that institutions	机构的方式
544	deal with these facts.	处理这些事实。
545	That's his answer to	这是他的回答
546	libertarian laissez-faire economists	自由放任经济学家
547	like Milton Friedman who say,	就像米尔顿・弗里德曼说的
548	life is unfair, but get over it.	生活是不公平的,但是要克服它。
549	Get over it and let's see if we can	克服它,让我们看看我们能不能
550	at least maximize the benefits	至少实现效益最大化
551	that flow from it.	从它流出。
552	But the more powerful libertarian	但更强大的自由主义者
553	objection to Rawls is not	对Rawls的反对不是
554	from the libertarian economists	来自自由主义经济学家
555	like Milton Friedman.	就像米尔顿·弗里德曼
556	It's from the argument about self-ownership	这是关于自有的争论
557	developed, as we saw, in Nozick.	正如我们在诺兹克所看到的那样
558	And from that point of view,	从这个角度看
559	yes, it might be a good thing	是的,这可能是一件好事
560	to create Head Start programs	创建“头开始”程序
561	and public schools	公立学校
562	so that everyone can go to a decent school	让每个人都能去一个体面的学校
563	and start the race	开始比赛
564	at the same starting line.	在同一条起点线上
565	That might be good.	这可能是很好的。
566	But if you tax people	但是如果你对人征税
567	to create public schools,	创建公立学校;
568	if you tax people	如果你对人征税
569	against their will,	违背他们的意志,
570	you coerce them.	你强迫他们。
571	It's a form of theft.	是一种盗窃形式.
572	If you take some of Letterman's	如果你拿一些莱特曼的
573	31 million, tax it away	3100万,收税
574	to support public schools	支持公立学校
575	against his will,	违背他的意志,
576	the state is really doing	国家真的在做
577	no better than stealing	不比偷东西好
578	from him.	从他。
579	It's coercion.	这是强迫。
580	And the reason is	原因是
581	we have to think of ourselves	我们必须为自己着想
582	as owning our talents	作为拥有我们的才华
583	and endowments, because otherwise	捐赠,因为否则
584	we're back to just using people	我们回到了利用别人
585	and coercing people.	和强迫人们。
586	That's the libertarian reply.	这是自由主义者的回答。
587	What's Rawls' answer	罗尔斯的答案是什么?
588	to that objection?	反对?
589	He doesn't address the idea of	他没说
590	self-ownership directly.	直接拥有。
591	But the effect,	但影响,
592	the moral weight of his argument	他的论点的道德价值
593	for the difference principle is	因为区别原则是
594	maybe we don't own ourselves	也许我们没有自我
595	in that thoroughgoing sense after all.	毕竟是那种彻底的观念
596	Now, he says	现在,他说
597	this doesn't mean that the state	这并不意味着国家
598	is an owner in me	我是一个主人
599	in the sense that it can	从它能够
600	simply commandeer my life.	仅仅控制我的生活。
601	Because remember,	因为记住,
602	the first principle we would agree to	我们同意的第一项原则
603	behind the veil of ignorance	在无知的面纱后面
604	is the principle of equal basic	平等的基本原则
605	liberties, freedom of speech,	自由,言论自由,
606	religious liberty, freedom of conscience	宗教自由、良心自由
607	and the like.	和类似。
608	So the only respect	因此,唯一的尊重
609	in which the idea of self-ownership	自我拥有的概念
610	must give way	必须让路
611	comes when we're thinking about	当我们想到
612	whether	是否为
613	I own myself in the sense	从意义上讲,我是我自己的
614	that I have a privileged	我有一个特权
615	claim on the benefits	养恤金索赔
616	that come from the	那些来自
617	exercise of my talents	锻炼我的才能
618	in a market economy.	在市场经济中。
619	And Rawls says, on reflection, we don't.	罗尔斯说,反省一下,我们没有。
620	We can defend rights.	我们可以捍卫权利。
621	We can respect the individual.	我们可以尊重个人
622	We can uphold human dignity	我们可以维护人的尊严
623	without embracing	不拥抱
624	the idea of	想法
625	self-possession.	自我占有。
626	That, in effect, is his reply	这实际上是他的答复
627	to the libertarian.	对自由主义者。
628	I want to turn now	我现在想转身
629	to his reply to the	答复
630	defender of a meritocratic conception	德才主义观念的捍卫者
631	who invokes effort	他们是勤劳的,
632	as the basis	作为基础
633	of moral desert.	道德的沙漠。
634	People who work hard to develop their talents	努力培养才能的人
635	deserve	应得的
636	the benefits that	好处
637	come from the exercise of their talents.	来自于他们的才能锻炼。
638	Well, we've already seen	我们已经看过了
639	the beginning	开始
640	of Rawls' answer to that question	罗尔斯回答这个问题
641	and it goes back	它会回到过去
642	to that poll we took about birth order.	参加我们关于出生令的民意调查
643	His first answer is	他的第一个答案是
644	even the work ethic,	甚至职业道德,
645	even the willingness	即使是意愿
646	to strive conscientiously	认真努力
647	depends on all sorts of	取决于各种
648	family circumstances and social	家庭状况和社会状况
649	and cultural contingencies	文化紧急情况
650	for which we can claim no credit.	我们对此不主张任何信用。
651	You can't claim credit for the fact that	你不能因为
652	you, most of you,	你们大多数人
653	most of us, happen to be first	我们大部分人都是第一
654	in birth order, and that for some	出生顺序, 以及对于一些
655	complex psychological	复杂心理
656	and social reasons, that seems	以及社会原因,这似乎
657	to be associated with	将与
658	striving, with achieving,	竭力而行,
659	with effort.	以努力努力,
660	That's	这是
661	one answer.	一个答案。
662	There's a second	有一秒钟
663	answer.	答问.
664	Those of you who invoke	你们中谁引用
665	effort, you don't really	努力,你没有真正
666	believe that moral	认为道德
667	desert attaches to effort.	沙漠必须努力
668	Take two construction workers.	带两个建筑工人
669	One is strong and can raise	一个强壮,可以升起
670	four walls in an hour without	一小时内有四面墙
671	even breaking a sweat.	连汗都流出来了
672	And another construction worker is small	还有一个建筑工人很小
673	and scrawny and has	瘦瘦的,已经
674	to spend three days	花三天时间
675	to do the same amount of work.	做同样多的工作。
676	No defender of meritocracy	没有德才主义的捍卫者
677	is going to look	将会看到
678	at the effort of that weak and scrawny	以那弱小而瘦弱的努力
679	construction worker and say therefore	建筑工人,因此说
680	he deserves to make more.	他应该得到更多的。
681	So it isn't really effort.	所以这不是真正的努力。
682	This is the second reply	这是第二次答复
683	to the meritocratic	至功德者,
684	claim.	索赔。
685	It isn't really	这不是真的
686	effort that the defender	辩护人的努力
687	of meritocracy believes	才华横溢
688	is the moral basis	是道德基础
689	of distributive shares.	分配份额。
690	It's	这是
691	contribution.	捐款。
692	How much do you	你多少钱?
693	contribute?	贡献?
694	But contribution	但贡献
695	takes us straight back	直接带我们回去
696	to our natural	我们的自然
697	talents and abilities, not	才华和能力,不是
698	just effort.	努力点
699	And it's not	事实并非如此
700	our doing, how we came into the	我们如何进入
701	possession of those talents	拥有这些才华
702	in the first place.	最初.
703	I suppose you accepted these arguments	我想你接受了这些论点
704	that effort isn't everything, that	那个努力不是一切,那
705	contribution matters	捐款事项
706	from the standpoint of the	从观点来看,
707	meritocratic conception.	才华横溢
708	That effort even isn't	那个努力甚至不是
709	our own doing.	我们自己做的。
710	Does that mean,	这是否意味着,
711	the objection continues,	反对继续,
712	does that mean that according to Rawls	这是否意味着,根据罗尔斯
713	moral desert has nothing to do	道德沙漠没什么可做的
714	with distributive	分配
715	justice?	正义?
716	Well, yes.	对
717	Distributive justice	分配司法
718	is not about moral desert.	这不是道德的沙漠。
719	Now, here	现在,这里
720	Rawls 引入一个
721	important and a tricky distinction.	重要而又棘手的区别
722	It's between moral desert	在道德的沙漠之间
723	on the one hand and	一方面
724	entitlements to legitimate	合法权利
725	expectations on the other.	对另一方的期望。
726	What is the difference between	有什么区别
727	moral deserts	道德沙漠
728	and entitlements?	权利?
729	Consider two different games.	考虑两个不同的游戏。
730	A game of chance and a game of skill.	机会游戏和技能游戏.
731	Take a game of	玩个游戏
732	pure chance.	纯粹的机会
733	Say I play the Massachusetts State lottery	说我玩马萨诸塞州彩票
734	and my number comes up.	我的号码就出来了
735	I'm entitled to my winnings.	我有权赢
736	But even though I'm entitled	但尽管我有权
737	to my winnings, there's no	我的胜利,没有
738	sense in which, because	因为...
739	it's just a game of luck,	这只是一场幸运游戏,
740	no sense in which I	没有意义,我
741	morally deserve to win in the first	道德上应该先赢
742	place.	地点。
743	That's an entitlement.	这是权利。
744	Now contrast the lottery	现在对比一下彩票
745	with a different kind of game.	一种不同的游戏。
746	A game of skill.	技能游戏.
747	Now imagine the Boston Red Sox	现在想象一下波士顿红袜
748	winning the World Series.	赢得世界大赛。
749	When they win,	当他们赢了,
750	they're entitled to the trophy.	他们有权获得奖杯。
751	But it can be always	但总是如此
752	asked of a game of skill	要求的技巧游戏
753	did they deserve	他们是否值得
754	to win?	要赢?
755	It's always	总是这样
756	possible in principle to distinguish	原则上可以区分
757	what someone's entitled	某人的权利
758	to under the rules	根据规则提交
759	and whether they deserve to win	以及他们是否值得赢得
760	in the first place.	最初.
761	That's an antecedent standard,	这是一个前例的标准,
762	moral desert.	道德的沙漠。
763	Now Rawls says	现在罗尔斯说
764	distributive justice is not a matter	分配公正不是问题
765	of moral desert, though	道德沙漠,虽然
766	it is a matter of entitlements	这是一个权利问题
767	to legitimate expectations.	与正当的期望。
768	Here's where he	在这里,他
769	explains it.	解释一下
770	A just scheme	一个公正的计划
771	answers to what men are	对男人的答案
772	entitled to.	权利。
773	It satisfies	它满足了
774	their legitimate expectations	他们的合法期望
775	as founded upon social	社会基础
776	institutions.	机构。
777	But what they are entitled to	但是他们应该得到什么
778	is not proportional to, nor	与
779	dependent on their intrinsic	取决于其内在
780	worth.	值钱
781	The principles of justice	司法原则
782	that regulate the basic structure	规范基本结构
783	do not mention moral desert	别提道德的沙漠
784	and there is no tendency	没有倾向
785	for distributive shares	分配份额
786	to correspond to it.	来对应它。
787	Why does Rawls	为什么罗尔斯
788	make this distinction?	做这种区别?
789	What morally is at stake?	道德上有什么利害关系?
790	One thing morally at stake	道德上有一点关系
791	is the whole question of effort that we've already	是整个问题的努力,我们已经
792	discussed.	讨论过。
793	But there's	但还有
794	a second contingency, a second	第二次意外情况,第二次
795	source of moral arbitrariness	道德武断的根源
796	that goes beyond	超过
797	the question of whether it's	问题是否是
798	to my credit that I have the talents that	我的功劳是我有才能
799	enable me to get ahead.	让我先走
800	And that has to do with the contingency	这和意外有关
801	that I live in a society	我生活在一个社会
802	that happens to	发生于
803	prize my talents.	奖励我的才能。
804	The fact	其实
805	that David Letterman	那个大卫·莱特曼
806	lives in a society that	生活在一个
807	puts a great premium,	付出巨大的代价,
808	puts a great value	很有价值
809	on a certain type of smirky joke,	在某个类型的滑稽笑话,
810	that's not his doing.	这不是他的作为。
811	He's lucky that he happens to live in such	他很幸运,他恰好住在这样的地方
812	a society.	一个社会。
813	But this is	但这是
814	a second contingency.	第二次意外情况。
815	This isn't	这不是
816	something that we can claim credit for.	值得称道的
817	Even if I had sole	就算我有独身
818	unproblematic claim	不成问题的索赔
819	to my talents and to my	我对我的才能和我的
820	effort, it would still be the case	努力还是这样
821	that the benefits I get from exercising	我从锻炼得到的好处
822	those talents	这些才华
823	depend on factors	取决于因素
824	that are arbitrary from a moral point of	从道德角度来说是任意的
825	view.	视图。
826	What my talents	我的天赋
827	will reap in a market economy, what does that	将在市场经济中收获,
828	depend on?	依赖?
829	What other people	还有什么人
830	happen to want or like in this society?	碰巧是想还是喜欢在这个社会?
831	It depends on the law of supply and	这取决于供应法和
832	demand.	需求。
833	That's not my doing.	这不是我做的。
834	Certainly not the basis	当然不是依据
835	for moral desert.	为了道德的沙漠。
836	What counts as contributing	贡献
837	depends on the qualities	取决于品质
838	that this or that society happens to prize.	这个社会或那个社会碰巧是奖品。
839	Most of us are	我们大多数是
840	fortunate to possess	幸运的是拥有
841	in large measure, for whatever reason,	在很大程度上,无论出于什么原因,
842	the qualities that our	我们的品质
843	society happens	社会发生
844	to prize.	奖励。
845	The qualities	质量
846	that enable us	能够让我们
847	to provide what society wants.	提供社会想要的东西。
848	In a capitalist	在资本主义
849	society it helps to have entrepreneurial	它有助于创业
850	drive.	开车
851	In a bureaucratic	在官僚主义中
852	society it helps to get on easily and	帮助社会顺利发展
853	smoothly with superiors.	与上级顺利相处.
854	In a mass democratic society	在大众民主社会中
855	it helps to look good on television	在电视上看起来不错
856	and to speak in	并发言
857	short superficial sound bites.	短暂的表面声音咬伤。
858	In a litigious society	在一个诉讼社会
859	it helps to go to law school	上法学院有帮助
860	and to have the talents	和拥有才能
861	to do well on LSATs.	在LSAT上做得好。
862	But none of this is our	但这一切都不是我们的
863	doing.	开始
864	Suppose that we with our talents	假设我们有才华
865	inhabited not our	住的不是我们
866	society, technologically advanced,	社会,技术先进的,
867	highly litigious, but a hunting	极具诉讼性质,但狩猎
868	society or a warrior society.	社会或战士社会。
869	What would become of our talents then?	我们的才能会怎样呢?
870	They wouldn't get us very far.	他们不会让我们走远的
871	No doubt some of us	毫无疑问,我们中的一些人
872	would develop others.	将发展其他技术。
873	But would we be less worthy?	但是,我们是否更不值得呢?
874	Would we be less	我们会不会少一点?
875	virtuous?	善良吗?
876	Would we be less meritorious if we lived	如果我们活下来,我们会不会更不值得呢?
877	in that kind of society rather	更何况在这种社会中
878	than in ours?	而不是我们的?
879	Rawls's answer is no.	罗尔斯的回答是否定的.
880	We might make less money and properly	我们可能赚得更少,而且适当
881	so.	所以说 So.
882	But while we would be	但当我们是
883	entitled to less,	权利减少,
884	we would be no less worthy.	我们同样值得
885	No less deserving than we are	不亚于我们
886	now.	现在
887	And here's the	这是
888	point, the same could be said	点,也可以这么说
889	of those in our society	我们社会中的人
890	who happen to hold less	谁碰巧持有少
891	prestigious positions.	高贵的职位。
892	Who happen to have fewer of the	谁碰巧拥有更少的
893	talents that our society	我们的社会的才能
894	happens to reward.	恰好是奖励。
895	So here's the moral	这就是道德
896	import of the distinction between	的区分
897	moral desert and entitlements	道德和权利
898	to legitimate expectations.	与正当的期望。
899	We are entitled to	我们有权
900	the benefits that the rules of the game	游戏规则的好处
901	promise for the exercise of our	承诺我们行使
902	talents.	天赋
903	But it's a mistake	但这是个错误
904	and a conceit to	和自以为是
905	suppose that we deserve in the first	假设我们在第一个
906	place a society that values	给一个重视的社会
907	the qualities we happen to have	我们的特质
908	in abundance.	富饶的。
909	Now we've been talking here	现在我们一直在谈这个
910	about income and wealth.	关于收入和财富。
911	What about opportunities	机会呢?
912	and honors?	和荣誉?
913	What about the distribution	那分配呢?
914	of access,	进入,
915	of seats in elite	精英席位数
916	colleges and universities?	学院和大学?
917	It's true.	这是真的。
918	All of you, most of you	你们所有人,你们大多数人
919	first born, worked hard,	刚出生,努力工作,
920	strived,	努力奋斗,
921	developed your talents	培养你的才华
922	to get here.	到这里。
923	But Rawls	但罗尔斯
924	asks, in effect,	问,实际上,
925	what is the moral status of	道德状况如何?
926	your claim to the benefits	您的补助金申请
927	that attach	该附件
928	to the opportunities you have?	你的机会?
929	Are seats	是座位
930	in colleges and universities	在大专院校
931	a matter, a kind of	一个问题,一种
932	reward, an honor	赏金荣誉
933	for those who deserve them	对那些应得的人,
934	because they've worked so hard?	因为他们工作这么辛苦?
935	Or are those seats	还是那些座位
936	those opportunities and honors	这些机会和荣誉
937	entitlements to legitimate	合法权利
938	expectations	期望
939	that depend for their justification	取决于理由的
940	on those of us	对于我们的人
941	who enjoy them	他们喜欢他们,
942	doing so in a way	在某种程度上
943	that works to the benefit	受益的
944	of those at the bottom	下层的
945	of society?	社会?
946	That's the question	这就是问题所在
947	that Rawls's Difference Principle	罗尔斯的分歧原则
948	poses.	姿势
949	It's a question	问个问题
950	that can be asked of the	可以问:
951	earnings of Michael Jordan and David	迈克尔·乔丹和戴维的收入
952	Letterman and Judge Judy,	莱特曼和朱迪法官
953	but it's also a question that	但这也是个问题
954	can be asked of opportunities	可以要求机会
955	to go to	前往
956	the top colleges	顶级学院
957	and universities.	和大学。
958	And that's a debate	这是一场辩论
959	that comes out	出来了
960	when we turn to the question of affirmative action	当我们谈到扶持行动问题时
961	next time.	下次再说吧

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P7 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p07 6. 6.平权行动的争论 (P7)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p07 6. 6.平权行动的争论 (P7)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 55:01

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:07	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:29	Last time we were discussing the distinction	上次我们讨论区别的时候
0:34	that Walls draws	墙壁画
0:37	between two different types of claims	B. 两类不同索赔之间
0:41	claims of moral desert on the one hand	一方面声称道德沙漠
0:45	and of entitlements to legitimate expectations on the other.	和享有对另一方的合法期望的权利。
0:52	Walls argued that it's a mistake	墙壁说这是个错误
0:58	to think that distributive justice	认为分配公正
1:02	is a matter of moral desert	是一个道德的沙漠问题

展开字幕全文（1051 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
2	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
3	Last time we were discussing the distinction	上次我们讨论区别的时候
4	that Walls draws	墙壁画
5	between two different types of claims	B. 两类不同索赔之间
6	claims of moral desert on the one hand	一方面声称道德沙漠
7	and of entitlements to legitimate expectations on the other.	和享有对另一方的合法期望的权利。
8	Walls argued that it's a mistake	墙壁说这是个错误
9	to think that distributive justice	认为分配公正
10	is a matter of moral desert	是一个道德的沙漠问题
11	a matter of rewarding people according to their virtue.	以功报恩
12	Today we're going to explore that question	今天我们要探讨这个问题
13	of moral desert and its relation to distributive justice	道德沙漠及其与分配正义的关系
14	not in connection with income and wealth	与收入和财富无关
15	but in its connection with opportunities	但与机会有关
16	with hiring decisions and admission standards.	包括雇用决定和录取标准。
17	And so we turn to the case of affirmative action.	因此,我们谈谈平权行动的情况。
18	你读过Cheryl Hopwood的案子
19	She applied for admission to the University of Texas Law School.	她申请进入德克萨斯大学法学院.
20	Cheryl Hopwood had worked her way through high school.	谢丽尔·霍普伍德在高中时很努力
21	She didn't come from an affluent family.	她不是出身富裕的家庭
22	She put herself through community college	她把自己通过社区大学
23	and California State University at Sacramento.	和加州国立大学萨克拉门托分校
24	She achieved a 3.8 grade point average there.	她在那里的平均成绩是3.8分。
25	Later moved to Texas, became a resident	后来搬到德克萨斯,成为一名居民
26	took the law school admissions test, did pretty well on that	考了法学院的录取考试成绩不错
27	and she applied to the University of Texas Law School.	她申请了德克萨斯大学法学院
28	She was turned down.	她被拒绝了。
29	She was turned down at a time when the University of Texas	德州大学时她被拒绝了
30	was using an affirmative action admissions policy	使用平权行动招生政策
31	a policy that took into account race and ethnic background.	一项考虑到种族和族裔背景的政策。
32	The University of Texas said	德克萨斯大学说
33	40% of the population of Texas	德克萨斯州40%的人口
34	is made up of African Americans and Mexican Americans.	由非裔美国人和墨西哥美国人组成
35	It's important that we, as a law school	我们作为法学院很重要
36	have a diverse student body.	拥有不同的学生身体。
37	And so we are going to take into account	所以我们要考虑
38	not only grades and test scores	不仅成绩和考试成绩
39	but also the demographic makeup of our class	我们这个阶级的人口组成
40	including its race and ethnic profile.	包括种族和族裔概况。
41	The result, and this is what Hopwood complained about	结果,这就是霍普伍德抱怨的
42	the result of that policy	政策的结果
43	is that some applicants to the University of Texas Law School	德克萨斯大学法学院的一些申请人
44	with the lower academic index	学术指数较低
45	which includes grades and test scores	包括成绩和考试分数
46	then hers were admitted and she was turned down.	之后她被录取被拒绝了
47	She said, she argued, I'm just being turned down	她说,她争吵,我只是被拒绝
48	because I'm white.	因为我是白人。
49	If I were a member of a minority group	如果我是少数群体的成员
50	with my grades and test scores I would have been admitted.	以我的成绩和考试成绩我本可以被录取
51	And the statistics, the admissions statistics	统计录取统计
52	that came out in the trial confirmed	审判中证实的
53	that African American and Mexican American	美国黑人和墨西哥裔美国人
54	applicants that year who had	该年申请人
55	her grades and test scores were admitted.	她的成绩和考试成绩都被录取了
56	It went to federal court.	它去了联邦法院。
57	Now, put aside the law, let's consider it	现在,放下法律,让我们考虑一下
58	from the standpoint of justice and morality.	从正义和道德的角度
59	Is it fair or is it unfair?	公平还是不公平?
60	Cheryl Hopwood有案子吗?
61	Is a legitimate complaint?	投诉合法吗?
62	Were her rights violated by the admissions policy	她的权利受到侵犯吗?
63	of the law school?	法学院?
64	How many would rule for the law school	有多少会统治法学院
65	and say that it was just to consider	并说这只是考虑
66	race and ethnicity as a factor in admissions?	种族和族裔作为录取因素?
67	How many would rule for Cheryl Hopwood	谢丽尔·霍普伍德的统治者有多少
68	and say her rights were violated?	并说她的权利受到侵犯?
69	So here we have a pretty even split.	因此,我们有一个相当平分。
70	All right, now I want to hear from a defender	好吧,现在我想听到一个捍卫者
71	of Cheryl Hopwood.	谢丽尔·霍普伍德
72	Yes.	对
73	You're basing something on that's an arbitrary factor.	你根据的是这个因素
74	Cheryl couldn't control the fact that she was white	谢丽尔无法控制她是白人的事实
75	or not in a minority.	或者不是少数
76	And therefore it's not as if	所以,这不像是
77	it was a test score that she worked hard to try	她努力尝试测试成绩
78	and show that she could put that out there,	并显示她可以把在那里,
79	that she had no control over her race.	她无法控制她的种族
80	Good.	不错
81	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
82	Brie.	布丽
83	Okay, Brie, stay right there.	好吧,布丽,呆在那里。
84	Now let's find someone who has an answer for Brie.	现在让我们找个能为布丽找到答案的人
85	Yes.	对
86	There are discrepancies in the educational system.	教育系统存在差异。
87	And majority of the time, I know this in New York City,	大部分时间,我知道这一点在纽约市,
88	the schools that minorities go to are not as well funded,	少数群体就读的学校经费不足,
89	are not as well supplied as white schools.	供应不如白人学校。
90	And so there is going to be a discrepancy naturally	所以自然会出现差异
91	between minorities and between whites if they go to better schools.	少数群体之间和白人之间,如果他们去更好的学校。
92	And they will not do as well on exams because they haven't had	他们不会在考试上做得那么好,因为他们没有
93	as much help because of the worse school system.	也因为学校制度恶化了需要很多帮助
94	Let me just interrupt you.	我打断你一下
95	Tell me your name.	告诉我你的名字。
96	Anisha.	阿尼沙(原变种).
97	Anisha, you're pointing out that minority kids	Anisha,你是在指出少数派的孩子
98	may have gone, in some cases, to schools	在某些情况下,可能去学校
99	that didn't give them the same educational opportunity	并没有给他们同样的教育机会
100	as kids from affluent families.	作为富裕家庭的孩子
101	Yes.	对
102	And so the test scores they got	所以测试结果
103	may actually not represent their true potential.	可能实际上并不代表他们的真正潜力。
104	Because they didn't receive the same kind of help	因为他们没有得到同样的帮助
105	that they might have received had they gone to a school with better funding.	他们可能已经得到如果他们去学校有更好的资金。
106	Good.	不错
107	All right.	好吧,我们走。
108	Anisha has raised the point	阿尼莎已经提出这一点
109	that colleges still should choose	学院还是应该选择
110	for the greatest academic scholarly promise,	为最大的学术承诺,
111	but in reading the test scores and grades,	但是在阅读考试成绩和成绩时
112	they should take into account the different meaning	它们应考虑到不同的含义。
113	those tests and grades have	考试和成绩
114	in the light of educational disadvantage in the background.	考虑到教育背景的不利地位。
115	So that's one argument in defense	所以这是个辩护理由
116	Anisha的论点:
117	correcting for the effects of unequal preparation,	纠正不平等准备的影响,
118	educational disadvantage.	教育劣势。
119	Now, there are other arguments.	现在,还有其他的论点。
120	Suppose, just to identify	假设,只是为了识别
121	whether there is a competing principle here,	无论这里是否有相互竞争的原则,
122	suppose there are two candidates	假设有两位候选人
123	who did equally well	做同样出色的人
124	on the tests and grades,	测试和成绩,
125	both of whom went to first-rate schools.	两人都上过一流的学校。
126	Two candidates.	两个候选人。
127	Among those candidates,	在这些候选人中,
128	would it be unfair	这不公平吗?
129	for the college or university, for Harvard,	学院或大学,哈佛大学,
130	to say, we still want diversity	可以说,我们仍然想要多样性
131	along racial and ethnic dimensions,	种族和族裔方面,
132	even where we are not correcting	即使我们没有纠正
133	for the effects on test scores	对测试分数的影响
134	of educational disadvantage?	教育劣势?
135	What about in that case, Bree?	那样怎么样 Bree?
136	If it's that one thing that puts someone over the edge,	如果有一件事让某人陷入困境
137	then I guess that would be justifiable.	那么我猜这是有道理的。
138	If everything else about the individual first,	如果一切关于个人的第一,
139	everything they consider about that person's talents	他们考虑的关于他的才能的一切
140	and where they come from and who they are	他们来自哪里,他们是谁
141	without these arbitrary factors is the same.	没有这些任意因素,是相同的。
142	Without these arbitrary factors, you call it.	没有这些任意因素,你叫它。
143	But before, you were suggesting, Bree,	但是之前,你建议,布瑞,
144	that race and ethnicity are arbitrary factors	种族和族裔是任意的因素
145	outside the control of the applicants.	不受申请人控制。
146	And your general principle is that admissions	你的一般原则是录取
147	shouldn't reward arbitrary factors,	不应该奖励任意因素,
148	over which people have no control.	他们不能控制一切。
149	Who else would like to thank you both?	还有谁想感谢你们俩?
150	Who else would like to get into this?	还有谁想参与进来?
151	What do you say?	你说什么?
152	Well, first of all, I'm for affirmative action temporarily,	首先我暂时支持平权行动
153	but for two reasons.	但有两个原因
154	First of all, you have to look at the university's purpose.	首先,你必须看看大学的目的。
155	It is to educate their students.	教育他们的学生。
156	And I feel that different races,	我觉得不同的种族,
157	people coming from different races have different backgrounds	来自不同种族的人有不同的背景
158	and they contribute differently to the education.	她们对教育的贡献不同。
159	And second of all, when you say they have equal backgrounds,	第二,当你说他们有同样的背景,
160	that's not true when you look at the broader picture	你从更广阔的视角看,那不是真的
161	and you look at slavery, and this is kind of a reparation.	你看看奴隶制,这是种补偿。
162	I think affirmative action is a temporary solution	我认为平权行动是暂时的解决办法
163	to alleviate history	以缓解历史
164	and the wrongs done to African Americans in particular.	特别是对非裔美国人犯下的错误。
165	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
166	David.	大卫
167	You say that affirmative action is justified, at least for now,	你说平权行动是正当的至少现在
168	as a way of compensating for past injustice,	以补偿过去的不公正,
169	the legacy of slavery and segregation.	奴役和隔离的遗产。
170	Who wants to take on that argument?	谁想接受这个论点?
171	We need now a critic of affirmative action.	我们现在需要一位肯定行动的批评者。
172	Yes, go ahead.	说吧
173	I think that what happened in the past has no bearing on what happens today,	我认为过去发生的事与今天发生的事无关
174	and I think that discriminating based on race should always be wrong,	我认为基于种族的歧视应该永远是错误的,
175	whether you're discriminating against one group or another.	无论你歧视的是哪个群体
176	Just because our ancestors did something	只是因为我们的祖先做了一些事情
177	doesn't mean that that should have any effect on	这不代表那应该对
178	what happens with us today.	我们今天怎么了?
179	All right, good.	好吧,不错。
180	I'm sorry, your name is?	对不起,你的名字是?
181	Kate.	凯特
182	All right, who has an answer for Kate?	好吧,谁有凯特的答案?
183	Yes.	对
184	I just wanted to comment and say that... Tell us your name.	我只是想说... 告诉我们你的名字。
185	My name is Mansour.	我叫曼苏尔
186	Because of slavery, because of past injustices,	因为奴隶制,因为过去的不公正,
187	today we have a higher proportion of African Americans who are in poverty	今天,贫困的非裔美国人比例更高
188	who face less opportunities than white people.	他们面对的机会比白人少
189	And so because of slavery 200 years ago	因为二百年前的奴隶制
190	and because of Jim Crow and because of segregation,	并且因为吉姆・克劳和因为隔离,
191	today we have injustice based on race.	今天,我们有基于种族的不公正待遇。
192	Kate.	凯特
193	I think that there are differences, obviously,	我认为有分歧,很明显,
194	but the way to fix those differences is not by some artificial fixing	但修补这些差异的方法不是通过一些人工修补
195	of the result.	结果。
196	You need to fix the problem.	你需要解决这个问题。
197	So we need to address differences in education	所以我们需要解决教育方面的分歧
198	and differences in upbringing	和养育的差异
199	with programs like Head Start and giving more funding	拥有 " 开始 " 和提供更多资金等方案
200	to lower income schools rather than trying to just fix the result	而不是仅仅试图修正结果
201	so it makes it look like it's equal when really it isn't.	所以它让它看起来像是平等的当它真的不是。
202	Well, with regard to affirmative action based on race, I just want to say	关于基于种族的平权行动我只想说
203	that white people have had their own affirmative action in this country	白人在国内有自己的平权行动
204	for more than 400 years.	超过400年。
205	It's called nepotism and quid pro quo.	所谓任人唯命与报.
206	So there's nothing wrong with correcting the injustice and discrimination	所以纠正不公正和歧视是没有问题的
207	that's been done to black people for 400 years.	这已经对黑人做了400年。
208	Good.	不错
209	Tell us your name.	告诉我们你的名字。
210	Hannah.	汉娜
211	All right, who has an answer for Hannah?	好吧,谁有汉娜的答案?
212	And just to add to Hannah's point	还有汉娜的观点
213	because we need now someone to respond,	因为我们现在需要有人回应,
214	Hannah, you could have also mentioned	汉娜,你也可以提到
215	legacy admissions.	传统录取。
216	Exactly.	没错
217	I was going to say, if you disagree with affirmative action,	我想说如果你不同意平权行动
218	you should disagree with legacy admission because it's obvious from looking around here	你应该不同意传统承认因为从这里看很明显
219	that there are more white legacies than black legacies in the history of Harvard University.	在哈佛大学历史上白人遗产比黑人遗产还多
220	And explain what legacy admissions are.	并解释什么是遗产承认.
221	Well, legacy admissions is giving an advantage to someone who has an arbitrary	那么,遗产的承认给一个有任意性
222	privilege of their parent having attended	父母的特权
223	the university to which they're applying.	他们申请的大学。
224	All right, so a reply for Hannah.	好吧,给汉娜一个答复
225	Yes, in the balcony.	是的,在阳台上。
226	Go ahead.	来吧。
227	First of all, if affirmative action is making up	首先,如果扶持行动正在形成
228	for past injustice, how do you explain minorities	对于过去的不公正,你如何解释少数
229	that were not historically discriminated against	在历史上没有受到歧视
230	in the United States who get these advantages?	在美国谁得到这些优势?
231	In addition, you could argue that affirmative action	此外,你可以认为平权行动
232	perpetuates divisions between the races	使种族之间的分歧永久化
233	rather than achieve the ultimate goal of race being an irrelevant factor in our society.	而不是实现种族成为我们社会无关因素的最终目标。
234	And tell us your name.	并告诉我们你的名字。
235	Danielle.	丹妮尔
236	Hannah.	汉娜
237	I disagree with that because I think that by promoting diversity	我不同意,因为我认为通过促进多样性
238	in an institution like this, you further educate all of the students,	在这样的机构,你进一步教育所有的学生,
239	especially the white students who grew up in predominantly white areas.	特别是白人学生他们主要在白人地区长大
240	It's certainly a form of education to be exposed to people from different	这当然是教育的一种形式接触不同的人
241	backgrounds.	学问
242	And you put white students at an inherent disadvantage	而你却让白人学生处于固有的劣势
243	when you surround them only with their own kind.	当时,你们只用他们的同类包围他们。
244	Why should race necessarily be equated with diversity?	为什么种族必须等同于多样性?
245	There are so many other forms.	有很多其他形式。
246	Why should we assume that race makes people different?	我们为什么要假设种族让人们不同?
247	Again, that's perpetuating the idea of racial division	再说一遍,这延续了种族分裂的思想
248	within our universities and our society.	在我们的大学和社会。
249	Hannah.	汉娜
250	With regard to African-American people	关于非裔美国人
251	being given a special advantage, it's obvious	被赋予特殊优势很明显
252	that they bring something special to the table	他们带来了一些特殊的东西在桌子上
253	because they have a unique perspective just as someone from a different religion	因为他们有独特的视角就像来自不同宗教的人
254	or socioeconomic background would as well.	或社会经济背景也会。
255	As you say, there are many different types of diversity.	如你所说,多样性有很多种。
256	There's no reason that racial diversity should be eliminated from that criteria.	种族多样性没有理由从这个标准中去除.
257	Yes.	对
258	Go ahead.	来吧。
259	Racial discrimination is illegal in this country.	种族歧视在该国是非法的。
260	And I believe that it was African-American leaders themselves	我相信是非裔美国领导人自己
261	when Martin Luther King said he wanted to be judged not on the color of his skin	当马丁・路德・金说,他不想被评判他的肤色
262	but by the content of his character, his merit, his achievements.	他的性格、功绩、成就
263	And I just think that to decide solely based on someone's race	我只是认为仅仅根据某人的种族来决定
264	is just inherently unfair.	本来就是不公平的
265	I mean, if you want to correct based on disadvantaged backgrounds,	我的意思是,如果你想纠正基于不利背景,
266	that's fine, but there are also disadvantaged white people as well.	也有一些白人处于劣势
267	It shouldn't matter if you're white.	白衣应否.
268	Tell us your name.	告诉我们你的名字。
269	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}Ted {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}泰德 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}你觉得呢
270	Ted, think of Hopwood.	泰德,想一想霍普伍德
271	It's unfair to count race	数种族是不公平的
272	or I assume you would also say ethnicity or religion.	或者我猜你也会说种族或宗教
273	Yes.	对
274	Do you think she has a right to be considered	你认为她有权被考虑
275	according to her grades and test scores alone?	单凭成绩和考试成绩?
276	No, there is more to it than that.	不,还有更多的。
277	Universities need to promote diversity.	大学需要促进多样性。
278	So you agree with the goal of promoting diversity?	你同意促进多样性的目标吗?
279	There's ways to promote diversity besides	除此以外,还有促进多样性的方法
280	discriminating against people solely based on a factor	纯粹基于某一因素的歧视
281	that they cannot control.	他们不能控制。
282	All right, so what makes it wrong is that she can't control her race.	好吧,所以是什么使它错了是她不能控制她的种族。
283	She can't control the fact that she's white.	她不能控制自己是白人的事实.
284	That's the heart of the unfairness to her.	这是对她不公平的核心
285	Brie made a similar point.	布里也提出了类似的观点.
286	That basing admissions on factors that people can't control	基于人们无法控制的因素
287	is fundamentally unfair.	这根本是不公平的。
288	What do you say?	你说什么?
289	There's a lot of things you can't control and if you're going to go	有很多事情你无法控制如果你要去
290	through it based on merit, like just based on your test scores,	通过它基于功绩, 就像仅仅根据你的测试分数,
291	a lot of what you can achieve has to do with the family background	你能够做的很多事情都与家庭背景有关
292	that you raised and if both your parents were scholarly,	如果你的父母是学者,
293	then you have more of a chance of actually being more scholarly yourself	那你就有更多的机会成为更多的学者自己
294	and getting those grades.	和获得这些成绩。
295	And you can't control what kind of family you were born into.	你无法控制你所生的家庭
296	All right, good.	好吧,不错。
297	That's a great rejoinder.	这是伟大的复辩。
298	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
299	Da.	达曰.
300	Ted, are you against advantages that come from the family you were born into?	Ted 你反对你生下来的家庭的好处吗?
301	What about legacy admissions?	遗产的录取呢?
302	I mean, I do believe that in terms of a legacy admission	我的意思是,我确实相信从遗产承认
303	you shouldn't have a special preference.	你不应该有特别的偏好。
304	I mean, there is a legacy admission you could argue is another part	我的意思是,有一个遗产承认你可以认为是另一部分
305	of diversity.	多样性。
306	You could say it's important to have a small percentage	你可以说,有一小部分很重要
307	of people that have several generation family	有几代家庭的人
308	attendance at a place like Harvard.	就读于哈佛等地.
309	However, that should not be	然而,这不应该是
310	an advantage factor like race.	像种族一样的优势因素
311	That should just be	这应该只是
312	another part of promoting diversity.	促进多样性的另一个部分。
313	Should it count at all?	这算不算?
314	Alumni status, should it count at all, Ted?	校友身份,这算不算,泰德?
315	Yes, it should count.	是的,应该算数
316	All right, I want to step back for a moment from these arguments.	好吧,我想退一步从这些论点。
317	Thank you all for these contributions.	感谢大家的贡献。
318	We're going to come back to you.	我们会回来找你的
319	If you've listened carefully,	如果你仔细听了
320	I think you will have noticed three different arguments	我想你会注意到三个不同的论点
321	emerge from this discussion	从这次讨论中产生的
322	in defense of considering	为考虑辩护
323	race and ethnicity	种族和族裔问题
324	as a factor in admissions.	作为录取的一个因素。
325	One argument has to do with	一个论点和
326	correcting for the effects	纠正影响
327	of educational disadvantage.	教育劣势。
328	这是Anisha的论点。
329	This is what we might call	这就是我们可以称为
330	the corrective argument.	纠正的论据。
331	Correcting	更正
332	for differences in educational background,	由于教育背景的差异,
333	the kind of school people went to, the opportunities they had	那种学校的人去, 他们的机会
334	and so on.	诸如来.
335	That's one argument.	这是一个争论。
336	What's worth noticing, though, is that that argument is consistent	值得注意的是,这个论点是一致的
337	in principle with the idea	原则上讲
338	that only academic promise and scholarly potential	只有学术承诺和学术潜力
339	should count in admissions.	应计入入院人数。
340	We just need to go beyond test scores and grades	我们只需要超越考试成绩和成绩
341	alone to get a true estimate	一个人去得到一个真实的估计
342	of academic promise and scholarly ability.	学术承诺和学术能力。
343	That's the first argument.	此是初辩.
344	Then we heard a second argument that said	然后我们听到第二个论点说
345	affirmative action is justified	扶持行动是合理的
346	even where there may not be	即使没有
347	the need to correct for educational disadvantage	需要纠正教育方面的不利因素;
348	in a particular applicant's case,	在具体申请人的案件中,
349	it's justified as a way of compensating for	这是正当的补偿方式
350	past wrongs, for historic injustices.	过去的错误, 历史的不公正。
351	So that's a compensatory argument.	所以,这是一个补偿性的论点。
352	Compensating for past wrongs.	弥补过去的错误。
353	Then we heard a third, a different	然后我们听到第三个,另一个
354	argument for affirmative action	扶持行动的理由
355	from Hannah and others that argued	汉纳和其他人的争论
356	in the name of diversity.	以多样性的名义。
357	Now the diversity	现在,多样性
358	argument is different from the compensatory	论据不同于补偿
359	argument because it makes a certain	参数,因为它可以确定
360	appeal to the social purpose or the	对社会目标或社会目标
361	social mission of the college or university.	学院或大学的社会使命。
362	There are really two aspects to the diversity	多样性确实有两个方面
363	argument.	参数。
364	One says	一个说
365	it's important to have a diverse student body for the sake of the	拥有一个多样化的学生身体很重要
366	educational experience for everyone.	每个人的教育经历。
367	Hannah made	汉娜做的
368	that point.	这一点。
369	And the other talks about the	其他人谈到
370	wider society.	更广阔的社会。
371	This was the argument made by the University of	这是法国大学提出的论点。
372	Texas in the Hopwood case.	德克萨斯州霍普伍德案
373	We need to	我们需要
374	train lawyers and judges and	培训律师和法官
375	leaders, public officials who will	领导人、政府官员
376	contribute to the strength, the	贡献力量和力量
377	civic strength of the state of Texas and the country	德克萨斯州和国家的公民力量
378	as a whole.	整体而言。
379	So there are two different aspects to the	所以,有两个不同的方面
380	diversity argument.	多样性论点。
381	But both are	但两者都是
382	arguments in the name of the social purpose	以社会目的为名的论据
383	or the social mission or the common good	社会使命或共同利益
384	served by the institution.	由机构提供服务。
385	Well what about the	那么,怎么样
386	force of these arguments?	这些论点的力量?
387	We've also heard objections	我们也听到有人反对
388	to these arguments.	这些论点。
389	The most powerful objection	最强大的反对
390	to the compensatory argument is	补偿性论点是:
391	is it fair to ask Cheryl	问谢丽尔公平吗?
392	Hopwood today to make the sacrifice	霍普伍德今天要牺牲
393	to pay the compensation for an injustice	赔偿不公正行为
394	that was admittedly committed and was egregious in the past	被承认是犯罪和令人发指的过去
395	but in which she was not implicated.	但是她并没有卷入其中。
396	Is that fair?	公平吗?
397	So that's an important	所以这很重要
398	objection to the compensatory argument	对补偿性论点的异议
399	and in order to meet that objection	并为了反对
400	we would have to investigate whether there is	我们必须调查是否有
401	such a thing as group rights or collective	集体权利或集体权利
402	responsibility that reaches over time.	长期的责任。
403	So having identified that issue let's set it aside	所以,在找出了这个问题之后,让我们把它搁置起来
404	to turn to the diversity argument.	转向多样性论点。
405	The diversity argument doesn't have to worry	多样性的论点不必担心
406	about that question, about collective responsibility	关于该问题,关于集体责任
407	for past wrongs.	对于过去的错误。
408	Because it says	因为它说
409	for reasons Hannah and others pointed out	由于汉娜和其他人指出的原因
410	that the common good	即共同利益
411	is served, is advanced	服务,高级
412	if there is a racially and ethnically	如果有种族和族裔
413	diverse student body.	不同的学生身体。
414	Everyone benefits.	每个人都有益处。
415	And this indeed was the argument that Harvard made	这确实是哈佛大学提出的论点
416	when it filed a Friend of the Court brief	当它提交法院之友书状时
417	to the Supreme Court in the 1978 case	在1978年案件中提交最高法院
418	Affirmative Action case, the Bakke case.	平权行动案巴克案
419	And the Harvard brief, the Harvard rationale	和哈佛简介,哈佛的理由
420	was cited by Justice Powell	鲍威尔法官引用
421	who was the swing vote in the case upholding	谁是案件摇摆投票维护
422	affirmative action.	平权行动。
423	He cited that as providing the	他举出这一点,即:
424	rationale that he thought was constitutionally	他认为是宪法上的理由
425	acceptable.	可接受的。
426	Harvard's argument in its brief	哈佛大学在其简介中的论点
427	was this.	是这个
428	We care about diversity.	我们关心多样性。
429	Scholarly excellence alone	光靠学者才能
430	has never been the criterion of admission	从未成为录取标准
431	the sole criterion of admission to Harvard College.	进入哈佛大学的唯一标准
432	Fifteen years ago diversity meant students	十五年前多样性意味着学生
433	from California and New York and Massachusetts	来自加州、纽约和马萨诸塞州
434	city dwellers and farm boys, violinists	城市居民和农场男孩,小提琴手
435	painters and football players, biologists, historians	画家和足球运动员、生物学家、历史学家
436	and classicists.	和经典主义者。
437	The only difference now	现在唯一的区别
438	Harvard argued is that we're adding racial	哈佛大学的论点是,我们增加种族
439	and ethnic status to this long list of	这一长长的清单的族裔地位
440	diversity considerations.	多样性的考虑。
441	When reviewing	审查时
442	the large number of candidates able to do well in our classes	我们班上能做得很好的考生
443	Harvard wrote, race may count as a plus	哈佛写道,种族可能算作一个附加
444	just as coming from Iowa may count	就像来自爱荷华州一样
445	or being a good middle linebacker	或是一个很好的中线后卫
446	or pianist.	或者钢琴家
447	A farm boy from Idaho	一个爱达荷州的农场男孩
448	can bring something to Harvard College that a	可以给哈佛大学带来一个
449	Bostonian cannot offer.	波士顿人无法提供。
450	Similarly	类似
451	a black student can usually bring something a white student	黑人学生通常可以带东西给白人学生
452	cannot offer.	无法提供。
453	The quality of the educational	教育质量
454	experience of all students depends in part	所有学生的经历部分取决于
455	on these differences in the background	关于这些背景差异
456	and outlook that students bring with them.	以及学生带来的前景。
457	That was Harvard's argument.	这是哈佛大学的论点。
458	Now what about the diversity	那么多样性呢?
459	argument?	辩论?
460	Is it persuasive?	有说服力吗?
461	If it's to be	狦琌
462	persuasive it has to meet one very powerful	说服它必须遇到一个非常强大的
463	objection that we've heard voiced	我们听到有人反对
464	here by Ted, by Brie	在这里,泰德,布丽
465	unless you're a utilitarian	除非你是功利主义者
466	you believe that individual rights	你相信个人的权利
467	can't be violated.	不能被侵犯。
468	And so the question is	所以问题是
469	is there an individual right	是否有个人权利
470	that is violated?	被侵犯了?
471	Is Cheryl Hopwood's right	谢丽尔·霍普伍德说得对
472	also violated?	也违反了?
473	If she is used so to speak	如果她是用来说话的
474	denied admission for the sake	被拒签了
475	of the common good and the social mission	公益和社会使命
476	that the University of Texas Law School has defined for itself	德克萨斯大学法学院为自己确定了
477	does she have a right?	她有权利吗?
478	Don't we deserve to be considered according to	我们不应该被考虑根据
479	our excellences, our achievements, our accomplishments	我们的卓越成就,我们的成就,我们的成就
480	our hard work?	我们的辛勤工作?
481	Isn't that the right at stake?	这不就是关键吗?
482	Now we've already heard an answer to that	现在我们已经听到一个答案
483	argument.	参数。
484	No, she doesn't have a right.	不,她没有权利。
485	Nobody deserves to be admitted.	没有人应该被接纳。
486	Notice how this gets us	注意这对我们有什么好处
487	back to the issue of desert versus entitlement?	回到沙漠与权利的问题?
488	They're arguing there is no	他们认为没有
489	individual right that Hopwood has.	个人的权利,霍普伍德有。
490	She doesn't	她没有
491	deserve to be admitted according to any particular	有权根据任何特定
492	set of criteria that she believes to be important	一套她认为重要的标准
493	including criteria that have only to do	包括只须遵守的标准
494	with her efforts and achievements.	她的努力和成就。
495	Why not?	为什么不呢?
496	I think implicit in this argument	我觉得这个论点是隐含的
497	is something like Rawls's	和罗尔斯一样
498	rejection of moral desert as the basis of	拒绝道德沙漠作为
499	distributive justice.	分配正义。
500	Yes, once	是的,曾经
501	Harvard defines its mission	哈佛大学确定了它的使命
502	and designs its admission policy in the light of its mission	并根据其使命制定接纳政策
503	people are entitled, who	人的权利,谁
504	fit those criteria, they are entitled to be	根据这些标准,他们有权
505	admitted.	承认
506	But according to this argument	但根据这个论点
507	no one deserves that Harvard	没人配得上哈佛大学
508	College define its mission and design its	学院确定使命和设计
509	admission criteria in the first place in a way	录取标准从某种意义上说
510	that prizes the qualities they happen	奖励他们的品质
511	to have in abundance.	有丰富的。
512	Whether those qualities are test scores	这些品质是否是测试分数
513	or grades or the ability to play the piano	或成绩或弹钢琴的能力
514	or to be a good middle linebacker	或成为优秀的中后卫
515	or to come from Iowa or to come	或来自爱荷华州或来
516	from a certain minority group.	属于某一少数群体。
517	So you see	这么说吧
518	how this debate about affirmative action, especially	关于扶持行动的辩论,特别是
519	the diversity argument takes us back to the question	多样性的论调让我们回到问题上来
520	of rights which in turn takes us back to the question	权利,这反过来又使我们回到问题中来
521	of whether moral desert	是否道德沙漠
522	is or is not the basis	是或不是基础
523	for distributive justice.	为分配正义。
524	Think about that	考虑一下
525	over the weekend and we'll continue this discussion next time.	周末再继续讨论
526	Suppose we're distributing flutes.	假设我们在分发笛子。
527	Who should get the best ones?	谁应该得到最好的?
528	What's	何谓
529	the answer is the best flutes should go to the best flute players	答案是最好的笛子应该去最好的笛手
530	because that's what flutes are	因为那就是笛子
531	for.	为.
532	When we ended last time	我们上次结束的时候
533	we were considering arguments for and against	我们考虑过支持和反对
534	affirmative action, counting race	平权行动,计种族
535	as a factor in admissions.	作为录取的一个因素。
536	And in the course of the discussion	在讨论过程中
537	three arguments emerged, three arguments	出现了三个论点,三个论点
538	for affirmative action.	为平权行动。
539	One of them was	其中一个是
540	the idea that race and ethnic background	种族和族裔背景的概念
541	should count as a way of correcting	应算作纠正的方法
542	for the true meaning of test scores	测试分数的真实含义
543	and grades, getting a more accurate	和成绩,获得更准确
544	measure of the academic potential	衡量学术潜力
545	those scores, those numbers represent.	那些分数,那些数字代表。
546	Second was what we called the	第二,我们称之为
547	compensatory argument, the idea	补偿性论证,这个想法
548	of writing past wrongs, past	写过去错误,过去错误
549	injustice.	不公正。
550	And the third was the diversity	第三是多样性
551	argument.	参数。
552	And when Cheryl	当谢丽尔
553	Hopwood in the 1990s challenged	1990年代的霍普伍德挑战
554	the University of Texas law schools	德克萨斯大学法学院
555	affirmative action program in the federal courts	联邦法院的平权行动方案
556	the University of Texas made another version	德克萨斯大学做了另一个版本
557	of the diversity argument saying that	多样性的论点,
558	the broader social purpose, the social mission	社会使命
559	of the University of Texas law school is	德克萨斯大学法学院
560	to produce leaders in the legal	培养法律界领袖
561	community, in the political community, among judges	社区、政治界、法官中
562	lawyers, legislators	律师、立法者
563	and therefore it's important that	因此,重要的是,
564	we produce leaders who reflect	我们产生领袖思考
565	the background and the experience	背景和经验
566	and the ethnic and the racial composition of the state	民族和种族构成
567	of Texas.	德克萨斯州。
568	It's important	这很重要
569	for serving our wider social mission	服务于我们更广泛的社会使命
570	and that was the University of Texas law school's argument.	这就是德克萨斯大学法学院的论点。
571	Then we considered an objection	后来我们考虑反对
572	to the diversity argument which after all	多样性论点,毕竟
573	is an argument in the name of the social	以社会为名
574	mission, the common good.	任务,共同利益。
575	We saw that Rawls does not simply believe	我们看到罗尔斯并不只是相信
576	that arguments of the common good or the general	共同利益或一般利益的论点
577	welfare should prevail if individual rights	如果个人权利
578	must be violated in the course of promoting	在宣传过程中必须违反
579	the common good.	共同利益。
580	You remember that was the	你还记得那是
581	question, the challenge to the diversity	多样性面临的挑战
582	rationale that we were considering when we finished	我们完事后考虑的理由
583	last time and we began to discuss	上次我们开始讨论
584	the question, well what right might be at stake?	问题是什么权利?
585	Maybe the right to be considered	也许是被考虑的权利
586	according to factors	根据因素
587	within one's control.	在自己控制的范围内
588	Maybe this	也许这个
589	是Cheryl Hopwood的论点
590	implicitly was making.	隐含在制造。
591	She can't help	她帮不上忙
592	the fact that she's white.	她是个白人
593	Why should	为什么
594	her chance at getting into law school	她上法学院的机会
595	depend on a factor she can't control?	取决于她不能控制的因素?
596	And then Hannah, who was advancing	然后汉娜,谁在进步
597	an argument last time, said	上次有一次说
598	Harvard has the right to define its mission	哈佛大学有权确定其使命
599	any way it wants to, it's a private institution	不管它想怎样,它都是私人机构
600	and it's only once Harvard defines its mission	只有一次哈佛大学确定了它的使命
601	that we can identify	我们可以确定
602	the qualities that count.	质量是最重要的。
603	So no rights are being violated.	因此,没有侵犯任何权利。
604	Now, what about that argument?	那这个争论呢?
605	What I would like to do is to hear objections	我想做的是听到反对
606	to that reply and then	对答复,然后
607	see whether others have an answer.	看看别人有没有答案
608	Yes, and tell us your name.	是的,告诉我们你的名字。
609	Da.	达曰.
610	Right, you spoke up last time.	是的,你上次说话。
611	All right, how do you answer that argument?	好吧,你怎么回答这个论点?
612	Well, I think there was two things in there.	我觉得里面有两件事
613	One of them was that a private	其中一个是私人
614	institution could define its mission however it wants,	机构可以随意确定其使命,
615	but then that doesn't make however it defines it right.	但这并不能说明它是否正确
616	Like, I could define my personal mission as I want to collect	喜欢,我可以定义我的个人任务,因为我想收集
617	all the money in the world, but does that make it even a good mission?	世界上所有的钱,但这是否使它甚至是一个好的任务?
618	So you can't say that just because	所以你不能这么说只是因为
619	a college is a private institution, it could just define it whatever it wants.	大学是私人机构,它可以随便定义它
620	We still have to think about the way it's defining it.	我们仍然要思考它如何定义它.
621	Right, and in the case of affirmative action,	对,就平权行动而言,
622	a lot of people have said that since there's a lot of other factors	很多人说,因为有很多其他因素
623	involved, why not race?	参与,为什么不比赛?
624	Like, we already know that the system is imperfect.	譬如,我们已经知道这个系统是不完善的。
625	I want to stick with your first point, Da.	我想坚持你的第一点,爸爸。
626	Here's Da's objection.	此处达人反对.
627	Can a college or university	学院或大学
628	define its social purpose any way it wants to,	以任何方式界定其社会目的,
629	and then define admissions criteria accordingly?	然后据此界定录取标准?
630	What about the University of Texas Law School,	那德克萨斯大学法学院呢?
631	not today, but in the 1950s?	不是今天而是1950年代吗?
632	Then there was another Supreme Court case	后来又发生了一起最高法院案件
633	against the admissions	反对录取
634	policy of the University of Texas Law School	德克萨斯大学法学院的政策
635	because it was segregated.	因为它被隔离。
636	It only	只不过
637	admitted whites, and when the case went to court	承认白人,当案件上法庭
638	back in the 50s, the University of Texas	50年代的德克萨斯大学
639	Law School also invoked its mission.	法学院也援引其使命。
640	Our mission as a law school	我们作为法学院的使命
641	is to educate lawyers	教育律师
642	for the Texas bar, for Texas law firms.	德州律师事务所
643	And no Texas law firm	没有德州律师事务所
644	hires African Americans.	雇佣非裔美国人。
645	So to fulfill our mission, we only admit	为了完成我们的使命,我们只承认
646	whites.	白头狼
647	Or consider Harvard	或者考虑哈佛
648	in the 1930s, when it had	在1930年代,当它有
649	anti-Jewish quotas.	反犹太人配额。
650	President Lowell, president of Harvard in the	洛威尔总统,哈佛大学校长
651	1930s, said that he had nothing	1930年代,说他什么都没有
652	personally against Jews, but he invoked	他个人反对犹太人,但他援引
653	the mission, the social purpose of Harvard, he said,	他说,任务,哈佛的社会目的,
654	which is not only to train intellectuals.	这不仅是为了培养知识分子
655	Part of the mission of Harvard, he said,	他说,哈佛大学的部分任务
656	is to train stockbrokers for Wall Street,	就是为华尔街训练股票经纪人
657	presidents and senators, and there are very few	总统和参议员很少
658	Jews who go into those professions.	进入这些职业的犹太人.
659	Now, here's the challenge.	现在,这是挑战。
660	Is there a principal distinction	是否有主要区别
661	between the invocation of the	援引《公约》与
662	social purpose of the college or university	学院或大学的社会目的
663	today, in the diversity	今天,在多样性中
664	rationale, and the invocation of the	理由和援引
665	social purpose or mission of the university	大学的社会目的或使命
666	by Texas in the 1950s, or Harvard	1950年代德克萨斯州或哈佛
667	in the 1930s?	在20世纪30年代?
668	Is there a difference in principle?	原则上有什么区别吗?
669	What's the reply?	何等为答.
670	Hannah?	汉娜?
671	Well, I think that the principle that's different here	我觉得这里的原则不同
672	is basically the distinction between inclusion	基本上就是包容之间的区别
673	versus exclusion.	相对于排斥。
674	I think that it's morally wrong	我觉得这在道德上是错误的
675	of the university to say,	大学说,
676	we're going to exclude you on the basis of your religion	我们要以你的宗教为由排斥你
677	or your race.	或者你的种族。
678	That's denial on the basis of arbitrary factors.	这是基于任意因素的否定.
679	What Harvard is trying to do today with its diversity initiatives	哈佛大学今天想用它的多样性倡议做什么
680	is to include groups that were excluded	包括被排除在外的群体
681	in the past.	过去
682	Good.	不错
683	Let's see if, stay there,	让我们看看,如果,呆在那里,
684	let's see if someone would like to reply.	看看有没有人想回答
685	Go ahead.	来吧。
686	Actually, this was kind of in support of Hannah,	其实,这是种支持汉娜,
687	rather than a reply, but I was going to say another	而不是一个答复, 但我要说另一个
688	principle difference can be based on malice being	原则差异可以基于恶意
689	the justification, I guess, for the	我想,这是为
690	historical segregation act.	历史隔离法。
691	So it's saying	这么说
692	that we're not going to let blacks or Jews in	我们不会让黑人或犹太人进来
693	because they're worse as people	因为他们比人还糟糕
694	or as a group.	或者作为一个团体。
695	Good.	不错
696	So the element of malice	所以恶意的元素
697	is in presence.	是在场。
698	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
699	Stevie.	史蒂维
700	Stevie says that in the	史提夫说
701	historic segregationist, racist,	种族主义、种族歧视、仇外心理和
702	anti-Semitic quotas or prohibitions,	反犹配额或禁令,
703	there was built into them a certain	他们中有一部分人,
704	kind of malice, a certain kind of judgment	某种恶意,某种判断
705	that African Americans or Jews	美国黑人或犹太人
706	were somehow less worthy than everybody else.	比其他人更没有价值
707	Whereas present day affirmative action	当今的平权行动
708	programs don't involve or imply	方案不涉及或暗示
709	any such judgment.	任何这样的判断。
710	What it amounts to saying is so long as a policy	这相当于说, 如此长的政策
711	just uses people in a way	利用别人的方式
712	as valuable to the social purpose	对社会目标有价值的
713	of the institution,	该机构,
714	it's okay, provided it doesn't judge them	⊿闽玒狦⊿Τ
715	maliciously, as Stevie might add,	恶意地,正如史提夫可能补充说,
716	as intrinsically less worthy.	内在的不值得。
717	I'd like to raise a question.	我想提个问题
718	Doesn't that concede that	这不承认
719	all of us, when we compete for	所有人,当我们竞争
720	positions or for seats in colleges	职位或大学席位
721	and universities, in a way	和大学,在某种程度上
722	are being used, not judged, but used	正在使用,不是判断,而是使用
723	in a way that has nothing to do	以无所事事的方式
724	with moral desert.	与道德的沙漠。
725	Remember we got into this whole discussion of affirmative action	记得我们开始讨论平权行动
726	when we were trying to figure out	当我们试图找出
727	whether distributive justice	是否分配司法
728	should be tied to moral desert or not.	是否应该和道德的沙漠联系在一起
729	And we were launched on that question	而我们被启动的问题
730	by Rawls and his denial,	以罗尔斯和他的否认发誓,
731	his rejection of the idea, the distributive justice,	他拒绝这个想法, 分配正义,
732	whether it's positions or places in the class	无论是班级中的位置还是位置
733	or income and wealth,	或收入和财富,
734	is a matter of moral desert.	是一个道德的沙漠问题。
735	Suppose that were the moral basis	假设那是道德基础
736	of Harvard's admissions policy.	哈佛大学招生政策
737	What letters would they have to write	他们要写什么信?
738	to people they rejected or accepted for that matter?	他们否认或接受此事的人,
739	Wouldn't they have to write something like this?	他们不用写这样的东西吗?
740	Dear unsuccessful applicant,	亲爱的失败的申请人,
741	we regret to inform you that your application for admission has been rejected.	我们遗憾地通知你你的入院申请被拒绝了
742	It's not your fault that when you came along	来的时候不是你的错
743	society happened not to need the qualities you had to offer.	社会碰巧并不需要你必须提供的品质。
744	Those admitted instead of you were not themselves	被录取的人不是你们自己
745	deserving of a place,	值得一个地方,
746	nor worthy of praise for the factors that led to their admission.	也不值得称赞导致他们被接纳的因素。
747	We are in any case only using them and you	总之,我们只是用他们和你
748	as instruments of a wider social purpose.	作为更广泛的社会目的的工具。
749	Better luck next time.	祝你下次好运
750	What was the letter you actually got when you were admitted?	你被录取时收到的信是什么?
751	Perhaps it should have read something like this.	也许它应该读类似的东西。
752	Dear successful applicant,	亲爱的成功申请者,
753	we are pleased to inform you that your application	我们高兴地通知你您的申请
754	for admission has been accepted.	现已接受录取。
755	It turns out, lucky for you,	原来你走运了
756	that you have the traits that society needs at the moment	你拥有社会目前需要的特质
757	so we propose to exploit your assets	所以我们建议利用你的资产
758	for society's advantage.	为了社会的利益
759	You are to be congratulated,	恭喜你们
760	not in the sense that you deserve credit for having the qualities	不代表你拥有这些品质值得表扬
761	that led to your admission,	这导致了你的承认,
762	but only in the sense that the winner of a lottery is to be congratulated	但只有彩票的得票者才能得到祝贺
763	and if you choose to accept our offer	如果你愿意接受我们的提议
764	you will ultimately be entitled to the benefits	您最终将有资格享受
765	that attach to being used in this way.	以这种方式使用
766	We look forward to seeing you in the fall.	我们期待着在秋季见到你。
767	Now there is something a little odd, morally odd,	现在有些事情有点奇怪道德上有些奇怪
768	if it's true that those letters	如果那些信是真的的话
769	do reflect the theory, the philosophy	反映理论和哲学
770	underlying the policy.	政策的基础。
771	So here's the question they pose.	这就是他们提出的问题。
772	And it's a question that takes us back to a big issue	这个问题让我们回到一个大问题
773	in political philosophy.	在政治哲学中。
774	Is it possible and is it desirable	有可能还是可取的
775	to detach questions of distributive justice	解决分配公正问题
776	from questions of moral desert	从道德沙漠问题出发
777	and questions of virtue?	和道德问题?
778	In many ways, this is an issue	在许多方面,这是一个问题
779	that separates modern political philosophy	将现代政治哲学分开
780	from ancient political thought.	从古代的政治思想。
781	What's at stake in the question of whether we can	我们能否
782	put desert, moral desert aside?	把沙漠,道德的沙漠放在一边?
783	It seemed when we were reading Rawls	好像我们读罗尔斯的时候
784	that the incentive, the reason he had	奖励,他的原因
785	for detaching distributive justice from moral desert	将分配正义从道德沙漠中分离出来
786	was an egalitarian one,	是一个平等的,
787	that if we set desert to one side	如果我们把沙漠放在一边
788	there's greater scope for the exercise	锻炼的范围更大
789	of egalitarian considerations,	平等考虑,
790	the veil of ignorance, the two principles,	无知的面纱两项原则
791	the difference principle, helping the least well off,	差别原则,帮助最不富裕的人,
792	redistribution and all that.	重新分配和所有这一切。
793	But what's interesting is if you look	但有趣的是,如果你看着
794	at a range of thinkers we've been considering	在各种思想家我们一直在考虑
795	there does seem to be a reason they want to	似乎有他们想要的理由
796	detach justice from desert that goes well beyond	将正义从沙漠中分离出去远远超出
797	any concern for equality.	任何对平等的关注。
798	Well, libertarian rights oriented theorists	自由主义者的理论家
799	of the kind we've been studying	我们一直在研究的那种
800	as well as egalitarian rights oriented theorists	以及平等权利理论家
801	including Rawls and for that matter	包括罗尔斯公司和为此
802	also including Kant, all agree	还有康德,大家都同意
803	despite their disagreements over distributive justice	尽管他们对于分配公正有分歧
804	and the welfare state and all of that,	以及福利状况和这一切,
805	they all agree that justice is not a matter	他们都同意正义不是问题
806	of rewarding or honoring	奖励或荣誉
807	virtue or moral desert.	美德或道德的沙漠。
808	Now why do they all think that?	他们为什么都这么想?
809	It can't just be for egalitarian reasons,	不能只是因为平等的原因
810	not all of them are egalitarians.	并不是所有人都是平等的。
811	This gets us to the big philosophical question	这让我们到了哲学的大问题
812	we have to try to sort out.	我们必须设法解决。
813	Somehow they think tying justice to moral merit or virtue	不知何故他们认为正义与道德或美德挂钩
814	is going to lead away from freedom,	将远离自由,
815	from respect for persons as free beings.	不尊重作为自由生命的人。
816	Well in order to see	为了看
817	what they consider to be at stake	他们认为其中的利害关系,
818	and in order to assess their shared assumption	评估它们的共同假设
819	we need to turn to a thinker, to a philosopher	我们需要转向思想家哲学家
820	who disagrees with them,	他们和他们争论,
821	who explicitly ties justice	明确将司法联系起来的人;
822	to honor, honoring virtue	荣誉,荣誉
823	and merit and moral desert.	和功绩和道德的沙漠。
824	And that thinker is Aristotle.	那个思想家是亚里士多德
825	Now in many ways	现在,在许多方面
826	Aristotle's idea of justice is intuitively	亚里士多德的正义思想是直觉的
827	very powerful.	非常强大。
828	In some ways it's strange.	在某些方面,这是奇怪的。
829	I want to bring out both its power,	我想拿出它的力量,
830	its plausibility and its strangeness	其可信度和奇异性
831	so that we can see what's at stake in this whole debate	这样我们就能看到这场辩论的利害关系
832	about justice and whether it's tied to desert	关于正义和它是否与沙漠相连
833	and virtue.	还有美德
834	So what is	那么,这是
835	Aristotle's answer to the question	亚里士多德对问题的回答
836	about justice?	关于正义?
837	For Aristotle	为亚里士多德
838	justice is a matter of giving people what they deserve,	正义是给人民应有的,
839	giving people their due.	给人们他们应得的。
840	It's a matter	这件事情
841	of figuring out the proper fit	找到合适的适合
842	between persons with their virtues	与有美德的人之间
843	and their appropriate social roles.	及其适当的社会作用。
844	Well what does this picture of justice look like	这个正义的画面是什么样子的?
845	and how does it differ from the conception	和它如何区别概念
846	that seems to be shared among libertarian	这似乎被自由主义者分享
847	and egalitarian rights oriented theorists alike?	以及平等的权利理论家?
848	Justice means giving	正义意味着给予
849	each person his or her due, giving people	每个人的应得,给人
850	what they deserve.	他们应得的
851	But what is a person's due?	但一个人应该做什么?
852	What are the relevant grounds of merit or desert?	功绩或沙漠有哪些相关理由?
853	Aristotle says that depends on the sort of	亚里士多德说这取决于
854	things being distributed.	东西正在分配。
855	Justice involves	司法涉及
856	two factors, things	两个因素,事情
857	and the persons to whom the things are assigned.	和那些被派去的人。
858	In general we say, Aristotle writes,	总的来说,我们说,亚里士多德写道,
859	that persons who are equal should have equal	平等者应享有平等的权利
860	things assigned to them.	交给他们的事
861	But here	但在这里
862	there arises a hard question.	有个很棘手的问题
863	Equals	等数
864	in what respects?	在什么方面?
865	Aristotle says	亚里士多德说
866	that depends on the sort of thing we're distributing.	那要看我们分配的是什么
867	Suppose we're distributing flutes.	假设我们在分发笛子。
868	What is the relevant merit	相关的优点是什么?
869	or basis of desert for flutes?	还是笛子的沙漠基础?
870	Who should get the best ones?	谁应该得到最好的?
871	What's Aristotle's answer?	亚里士多德的答案是什么?
872	Anyone?	有人吗?
873	The best flute players, right.	最好的笛手,没错。
874	Those who are best	谁是最好的
875	in the relevant sense, the best flute players.	在相关意义上,最好的笛手。
876	Is it just to discriminate in allocating flutes?	在分配笛子方面是否只是歧视?
877	Yes, all justice involves discrimination,	是的,所有司法都涉及歧视,
878	Aristotle says.	亚里士多德说.
879	What matters	有什么关系?
880	is that the discrimination be according to the relevant	歧视是根据《公约》第16条(a)项和(b)项的规定。
881	excellence, according to the virtue	优秀,根据美德
882	appropriate to having flutes.	适合长笛。
883	He says it would be unjust to discriminate on some other	他说歧视别人是不公平的
884	basis in giving out the flutes.	以释放笛子为基础
885	Say wealth, just giving the best flutes	说财富,只是给最好的笛子
886	to the people who can pay the highest price.	给那些能付出最高代价的人
887	Or nobility of birth, just giving flutes to	或贵族出身,只是给笛子
888	aristocrats.	贵族.
889	Or physical beauty,	或身体的美丽,
890	giving the best flutes to the most handsome.	给最帅的笛子
891	Or chance, having a lottery.	或者机会,有彩票。
892	Aristotle says	亚里士多德说
893	wealth and beauty may be greater goods	财富和美丽可能是更大的财富
894	than the ability to play the flute.	而不是弹笛子的能力
895	And those who possess them may surpass the flute	拥有它们的人,或许超越笛子,
896	player more in these qualities than he surpasses	玩家在这些品质上胜过他
897	them in his flute playing.	在他的笛子演奏。
898	But the fact remains	但事实依然如此
899	that he is the person who ought to get the best flute.	他才是应该得到最好的笛子的人
900	It's a strange idea, this comparison	这个比喻真是奇怪
901	by the way, that I mean, could you say	顺便说一句,我是说,你能说
902	am I more handsome	我更帅吗?
903	than she is a good lacrosse player?	比她还会打曲棍球?
904	It's a strange kind of comparison.	比较起来很奇怪
905	Putting that aside, Aristotle says	把那个放在一边,亚里士多德说
906	we're not looking for the best overall, whatever that might mean.	我们不是在寻找最好的整体不管那是什么意思
907	We're looking for the best musician.	我们正在寻找最好的音乐家。
908	Now why, this is important to see,	现在,为什么,这很重要看到,
909	why should the best flutes go to the best flute players?	为什么最好的笛子会去最好的笛手?
910	Well, why do you think?	你觉得呢?
911	Anybody?	有人吗?
912	What?	你说什么?
913	They'll produce the best music?	他们会产生最好的音乐?
914	Well, and everybody will enjoy it more.	好吧,每个人都会更享受它。
915	That's not Aristotle's answer.	这不是亚里士多德的答案。
916	Aristotle is not a utilitarian.	亚里士多德不是功利主义者.
917	He's not just saying	他不只是说
918	that way there will be better music and everyone will enjoy it,	这样会有更好的音乐每个人都会喜欢它,
919	everyone will be better off.	每个人都会更好。
920	His answer is	他的答案是,我们...
921	the best flutes should go to the best flute players	最好的笛子应该去最好的笛手
922	because that's what flutes are for,	因为这就是笛子的目的
923	to be played well.	来好好玩
924	The purpose of flute playing,	吹长笛的目的
925	the purpose is to produce excellent music	目的是制作优秀的音乐
926	and those who can best perfect that purpose	以及那些最能达到目的的人
927	ought properly to have the best ones.	应该有最好的。
928	Now it may also be true	现在也可能是真的
929	as a welcome side effect	作为受欢迎的副作用
930	that everyone will enjoy listening to that music.	每个人都会喜欢听那音乐
931	So that answer is true enough	所以这个答案就足够了
932	as far as it goes, but it's important to see that Aristotle's reason	但重要的是要看到亚里士多德的理由
933	is not a utilitarian reason.	这不是功利主义的理由。
934	It's a reason that looks	这是一个理由看起来
935	here's where you might think it's a little bit strange.	你可能觉得这里有点奇怪
936	It looks to the purpose, the point,	它着眼于目的, 要点,
937	the goal of flute playing.	吹笛子的目标
938	Another way of describing this	另一种说法
939	looking to the goal to determine the	目标
940	chest allocation, the Greek for goal	胸腔分配,希腊为目标
941	或结束是telos。
942	So Aristotle says you have to consider	所以亚里士多德说你得考虑一下
943	the point, the end, the goal,	重点,终点,目标,
944	the telos of the thing, in this case of flute playing	在吹笛子的时候
945	and that's how you define	这就是你如何定义
946	a just allocation, a just discrimination.	公正分配公正歧视
947	So this idea of reasoning	所以这个推理的想法
948	from the goal, from the telos	从球门, 从泰洛斯
949	is called teleological reasoning.	被称作心灵推理。
950	Teleological moral reasoning.	腾讯道德推理.
951	And that's Aristotle's way.	这是亚里士多德的方式。
952	Reasoning from the goal, from the end.	由是入球,从末.
953	Now this may seem, as I said,	现在,这也许看起来,正如我说的,
954	a strange idea that we're supposed to reason	一个奇怪的想法,我们应该有道理
955	from the purpose, but it does have a certain	不过它确实有某种
956	intuitive plausibility.	直观之理.
957	Consider the allocation, let's say, at Harvard	考虑一下在哈佛的拨款
958	of the best tennis courts or squash courts.	最好的网球场或壁球场
959	How should they be allocated?	如何分配这些资源?
960	Who should have priority	谁应优先
961	in playing on the best courts?	在最好的法庭上玩?
962	Well, you might say those	你可以这么说
963	who can best afford them,	他们最能负担他们,
964	set up a fee system, charge money for them.	建立收费制度,为他们收费.
965	Aristotle would say no.	亚里士多德会拒绝的
966	You might say, well,	你可能会说,嗯,
967	Harvard big shots, the most influential people at Harvard,	哈佛大人物哈佛最有影响力的人
968	who would they be?	他们会是谁?
969	The senior faculty should have priority	高级教职员工应该优先
970	in playing on the best tennis courts.	在最好的网球场上打球
971	No, Aristotle would reject that.	不,亚里士多德会拒绝的
972	Some scientists may be a greater scientist than some	一些科学家可能比一些科学家更伟大
973	But still, the tennis player is the one	不过,网球选手就是那个
974	who should have priority	应优先处理
975	for playing on the best tennis court.	在最好的网球场打球
976	There is a certain intuitive plausibility	有某种直觉的道理
977	to this idea.	对这个想法。
978	Now, one of the things that makes it strange	现在,其中一件事使它变得奇怪
979	is that in Aristotle's world, in the ancient world,	在亚里士多德的世界, 在古代的世界,
980	it wasn't only social practices	不只是社会习俗
981	that were governed, in Aristotle's view,	在亚里士多德看来,
982	by teleological reasoning	以语言推理
983	and teleological explanation.	和心灵感应的解释。
984	All of nature was understood to be a meaningful order	所有自然被理解为一个有意义的秩序
985	and what it meant to understand nature,	以及了解自然的意义,
986	to grasp nature, to find our place in nature,	抓住大自然找到我们在大自然中的地位
987	was to inquire into and read out	调查并宣读
988	the purposes or the telos of nature.	自然的目的或主题。
989	And with the advent of modern science,	随着现代科学的出现,
990	it's been difficult to think of the world that way	很难想象这个世界是这样
991	and so it makes it harder, perhaps,	所以它使得它更难,也许,
992	to think of justice in a teleological way.	以心灵的方式思考正义
993	But there is a certain naturalness	但有一点自然
994	to thinking about even the natural world	思考着自然世界
995	as teleologically ordered, as a purpose of whole.	整个目的
996	In fact, children have to be educated	事实上,儿童必须接受教育
997	out of this way of looking at the world.	从此观世音.
998	I realized this when my kids were very young	我小时候就意识到了
999	and I was reading them a book, Winnie the Pooh.	我在读一本书,维尼
1000	Winnie the Pooh gives you a great idea	维尼给你一个好主意
1001	of how there is a certain natural,	如何有一个自然,
1002	childlike way of looking at the world	像孩子一样看世界的方式
1003	in a teleological way.	以心灵学的方式。
1004	You may remember a story	你可能记得一个故事
1005	of Winnie the Pooh walking in the forest one day.	有一天维尼在森林里散步
1006	He came to a place in the forest	他来到森林的一个地方
1007	and from the top of a tree there came a loud buzzing noise.	从一棵树的顶部发出响亮的声音。
1008	Winnie the Pooh sat at the foot of the tree,	维尼坐在树脚下
1009	put his head between his paws and began to think.	把他的头放在爪子之间开始思考
1010	Here's what he said to himself.	这就是他对自己说的话。
1011	That buzzing noise means something.	那个叫声意味着什么
1012	You don't get a buzzing noise like that,	你可没听到那种叫声
1013	just buzzing and buzzing, without its meaning something.	只是嗡嗡声和嗡嗡声, 没有意义的东西。
1014	If there's a buzzing noise, somebody's making a buzzing noise.	如果有嗡嗡声有人在发出嗡嗡声
1015	And the only reason for making a buzzing noise	唯一的理由发出噪音
1016	that I know of is because you're a bee.	我知道是因为你是个蜜蜂
1017	Then he thought for another long time and said,	然后他又想了很久然后说
1018	then the only reason for being a bee	成为蜜蜂的唯一原因
1019	that I know of is making honey.	我知道这是做蜂蜜。
1020	And then he got up and he said,	然后他站起来说,
1021	and the only reason for making honey	和唯一的理由制造蜂蜜
1022	is so I can eat it.	这样我才能吃它。
1023	So he began to climb the tree.	于是他开始爬树.
1024	This is an example	这是一个例子
1025	of teleological reasoning.	以语言推理
1026	It isn't so implausible after all.	毕竟也不是那么不可思议
1027	Now, we grew up and we're talked out of this way,	现在,我们长大了,我们被说服了出去,
1028	of thinking about the world.	思考这个世界。
1029	But here's the question.	但问题是...
1030	Even if teleological explanations	就算是心理解释
1031	don't fit with modern science,	不适应现代科学,
1032	even if we've outgrown them in understanding nature,	即使我们在了解自然方面超越了他们
1033	isn't there something still intuitively	是不是还有直觉上的东西
1034	and morally plausible, even powerful,	和道德上可信的,甚至强大的,
1035	about Aristotle's idea	关于亚里士多德的想法
1036	that the only way to think about justice	这是思考正义的唯一方法
1037	is to reason from the purpose,	从目的出发
1038	the goal, the telos of the social practice,	目标, 社会实践的调子,
1039	and isn't that precisely what we were doing	这正是我们在做什么
1040	when we were disagreeing about affirmative action?	当我们不同意平权行动时?
1041	You could almost recast that disagreement	你几乎可以重塑这种分歧
1042	as one about what the proper,	如一个关于什么是正当的,
1043	appropriate purpose or end	适当目的或目的
1044	of a university education consists in.	大学教育包括:
1045	Reasoning from the purpose	目的的原因
1046	or from the telos or from the end,	或从调音器或从结尾,
1047	Aristotle says that's indispensable	亚里士多德说这是不可或缺的
1048	to thinking about justice.	思考正义。
1049	Is he right?	他说得对吗?
1050	Think about that question as you turn to Aristotle's politics.	想想这个问题当你转向亚里士多德的政治。
1051	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。

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P8 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p08 7. 7.是否雇佣顶替自己服役的人 (P8)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p08 7. 7.是否雇佣顶替自己服役的人 (P8)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 55:10

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	We were discussing Locke's idea of government by consent, and the question arose, what are	我们当时在讨论洛克关于同意政府的想法问题是,什么是
0:42	the limits on government that even the agreement of the majority can't override?	对政府的限制,即使多数人同意也不能推翻?
0:49	That was the question we ended with.	这是我们最后的问题。
0:56	We saw, in the case of property rights, that on Locke's view, a democratically elected	在财产权方面,我们看到洛克认为,一个民主选举产生的
1:07	government has the right to tax people.	政府有权向人民征税。
1:12	It has to be taxation with consent, because it does involve the taking of people's property	它必须是经同意的税收,因为它确实涉及夺取人民的财产。
1:18	for the common good, but it doesn't require the consent of each individual at the time	但并不需要每个人当时的同意
1:27	the tax is enacted or collected.	制定或征收税款。
1:30	What it does require is a prior act of consent to join the society, to take on the political	它确实需要事先征得同意,才能加入社会,承担政治责任。
1:41	obligation.	义务。

展开字幕全文（643 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	We were discussing Locke's idea of government by consent, and the question arose, what are	我们当时在讨论洛克关于同意政府的想法问题是,什么是
2	the limits on government that even the agreement of the majority can't override?	对政府的限制,即使多数人同意也不能推翻?
3	That was the question we ended with.	这是我们最后的问题。
4	We saw, in the case of property rights, that on Locke's view, a democratically elected	在财产权方面,我们看到洛克认为,一个民主选举产生的
5	government has the right to tax people.	政府有权向人民征税。
6	It has to be taxation with consent, because it does involve the taking of people's property	它必须是经同意的税收,因为它确实涉及夺取人民的财产。
7	for the common good, but it doesn't require the consent of each individual at the time	但并不需要每个人当时的同意
8	the tax is enacted or collected.	制定或征收税款。
9	What it does require is a prior act of consent to join the society, to take on the political	它确实需要事先征得同意,才能加入社会,承担政治责任。
10	obligation.	义务。
11	But once you take on that obligation, you agree to be bound by the majority.	但一旦你承担了这项义务,你同意受多数的约束。
12	So much for taxation.	税费就够了
13	But what you may ask about the right to life, can the government conscript people and send	但你可以问什么关于生命权, 政府可以征召人民和发送
14	them into battle?	他们投入战斗?
15	What about the idea that we own ourselves?	我们自己的想法呢?
16	Isn't the idea of self-possession violated if the government can, through coercive legislation	如果政府能够通过强制立法, 自我占有的想法不是受到侵犯吗?
17	and enforcement powers, say, you must go risk your life to fight in Iraq?	以及执法权,比如,你必须冒着生命危险去伊拉克作战?
18	What would Locke say?	洛克会怎么说?
19	Does the government have the right to do that?	政府有权这样做吗?
20	Yes.	对
21	In fact, he says in 139, he says, what matters is that the political authority or the military	事实上,他在139年说, 重要的是政治权威或军队
22	authority not be arbitrary.	权威不是任意的。
23	That's what matters.	这才是最重要的。
24	And he gives a wonderful example.	他给出了一个很好的例子。
25	He says a sergeant, even a sergeant, let alone a general, a sergeant can command a soldier	他说一个军士,甚至一个军士, 更别说一个将军,一个军士可以指挥一个士兵
26	to go right up to the face of the cannon where he's almost sure to die.	直奔大炮的正面他几乎肯定会死
27	That the sergeant can do.	军士可以做的。
28	The general can condemn the soldier to death for deserting his post or for not obeying	将军可以因为士兵逃职或不服从命令判他死刑
29	even a desperate order.	甚至一个绝望的命令。
30	But with all their power over life and death, what these officers can't do is take a penny	但凭着他们对生死的支配力这些军官不能做的就是拿一分钱
31	of that soldier's money because that has nothing to do with the rightful authority.	那士兵的钱因为那和合法权力无关
32	That would be arbitrary and it would be corrupt.	这样做是任意的,是腐败的。
33	So consent winds up being very powerful in Locke.	所以同意在洛克变得非常强大
34	Not consent of the individual to the particular tax or military order.	个人不同意特定税收或军事命令。
35	But consent to join the government and to be bound by the majority in the first place.	但同意加入政府,并首先受多数人的约束.
36	That's the consent that matters.	这才是最重要的同意
37	And it matters so powerfully that even the limited government created by the fact that	这很重要,甚至连有限的政府由事实:
38	we have an unalienable right to life, liberty and property.	我们拥有不可剥夺的生命、自由和财产权利。
39	Even that limited government is only limited in the sense that it has to govern by generally	即使这种有限的政府也只是从它必须普遍治理的意义上来说是有限的。
40	applicable laws, the rule of law, it can't be arbitrary.	这不能是任意的。
41	That's Locke.	这是洛克。
42	Well this raises a question about consent.	这引起了同意的问题。
43	Why is consent such a powerful moral instrument in creating political authority and the obligation	为什么同意是建立政治权威和义务的强大道德工具?
44	to obey?	服从?
45	Today we begin to investigate the question of consent by looking at a concrete case.	今天,我们开始调查同意问题,研究一个具体案例。
46	The case of military conscription.	征兵问题。
47	Now some people say if we have a fundamental right that arises from the idea that we own	现在有些人说,如果我们有一个基本权利产生于我们自己的思想
48	ourselves, it's a violation of that right for a government to conscript citizens to	我们自己,这是侵犯政府征召公民
49	go fight in wars.	去打仗,战争。
50	Others disagree, others say that's a legitimate power of government, of democratically elected	其他人不同意,其他人说,这是政府的合法权力, 民主选举
51	governments anyhow, and that we have an obligation to obey.	无论如何,政府,我们有义务服从。
52	Let's take the case of the United States fighting a war in Iraq.	以美国在伊拉克作战为例.
53	News accounts tell us that the military is having great difficulty meeting its recruitment	新闻报导告诉我们军队很难应付征兵
54	targets.	目标。
55	Consider three policies that the US government might undertake to deal with the fact that	考虑美国政府可能采取的三项政策,以应对以下事实:
56	it's not achieving its recruiting targets.	它没有达到招募目标。
57	Solution number one, increase the pay and benefits to attract a sufficient number of	第一解决方案,增加薪资和福利,以吸引足够数量的
58	soldiers.	士兵们
59	Option number two, shift to a system of military conscription.	第二选择,转向征兵制度。
60	Have a lottery and whosoever numbers are drawn, go to fight in Iraq.	有彩票,无论谁抽到数字,都去伊拉克战斗。
61	System number three, outsource.	系统三号,外包。
62	Hire what traditionally have been called mercenaries.	雇用传统上称为雇佣军的人。
63	People around the world who are qualified, able to do the work, able to fight well and	全世界有资质,能干能干,能打能打能打能打
64	who are willing to do it for the existing wage.	他们愿意为现有的工资这样做。
65	So let's take a quick poll here.	因此,让我们在这里做一个快速的民意调查。
66	How many favor increasing the pay?	多少人喜欢增加工资?
67	Huge majority.	绝对是多数
68	How many favor going to conscription?	征召多少人?
69	Alright, maybe a dozen people in the room favor conscription.	好吧,也许一打人在房间里赞成征兵。
70	What about the outsourcing solution?	那外包方案呢?
71	Okay, so there may be about two, three dozen.	好吧,大概有两,三打。
72	During the Civil War, the Union used a combination of conscription and the market system to fill	国共内战期间,国联采用征兵制和市场制相结合的方式填补.
73	the ranks of the military to fight in the Civil War.	在内战中参战的军衔。
74	It was a system that began with conscription, but if you were drafted and didn't want to	这是一种从征兵开始的制度但如果你被征召而不愿
75	serve, you could hire a substitute to take your place and many people did.	服务,你可以雇一个替补来代替你的位置,很多人也做了。
76	You could pay whatever the market required in order to find a substitute.	你可以为寻找替代品而支付任何市场所需的费用。
77	People ran ads in newspapers, in the classified ads, offering five hundred dollars, sometimes	人们在报纸上,在分类广告上, 提供500美元,有时
78	a thousand dollars for a substitute who would go fight the Civil War in their place.	1000美元一个替身要代替他们去打内战
79	In fact, it's reported that Andrew Carnegie was drafted and hired a substitute to take	事实上,据报道,安德鲁·卡内基是被征召的,并聘请了一名替补人选来接收.
80	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}他那份钱比他一年的花费少一点 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}他那份钱
81	fancy cigars.	漂亮的雪茄烟。
82	Now I want to get your views about the Civil War system.	现在我想了解你对内战制度的看法
83	Call it the hybrid system, conscription but with a buyout provision.	称之为混合制,征兵制但有一个买断条款。
84	How many think it was a just system?	有多少人认为这是一个公正的制度?
85	How many would defend the Civil War system?	有多少人会保卫内战系统?
86	Anybody?	有人吗?
87	One, anybody else?	一个,还有谁?
88	Two, three, four, five.	二三四五门.
89	How many think it was unjust?	有多少人认为这是不公正的?
90	Most of you don't like the Civil War system.	你们大多不喜欢内战制度
91	You think it's unjust.	你觉得这不公平吗?
92	Let's hear an objection.	让我们听到一个反对。
93	Why don't you like it?	何故不乐.
94	What's wrong with it?	有什么不对吗?
95	Well by paying three hundred dollars to be exempt one time around, you're really putting	好吧,通过支付300美元豁免一次左右,你真的把
96	a price on valuing human life and we established earlier that's really hard to do so they're	我们早些时就建立了很难做到
97	trying to accomplish something that really isn't feasible.	试图完成一些不可行的事
98	Good, so paying someone three hundred or five hundred or a thousand dollars.	不错,所以支付一个人 300或500或1000美元。
99	You're basically saying that's what their life is worth to you.	你根本就是说他们的生命对你来说是值得的
100	That's what their life is worth.	这就是他们生命的价值。
101	It's putting a dollar value on life.	令众生得一钱.
102	That's good.	这是很好的。
103	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
104	Liz.	丽兹
105	Well, who has an answer for Liz?	谁知道丽兹的答案?
106	You defended the Civil War system.	你为内战制度辩护
107	What do you say?	你说什么?
108	If you don't like the price then you have the freedom to not be sold or hired so it's	如果你不喜欢价钱那你有不被出售或雇用的自由
109	completely up to you and I don't think it's necessarily putting a specific price on you	完全由你决定,我不认为它一定给你一个具体的代价
110	and if it's done by himself I don't think there's anything necessarily morally wrong	如果这是自己做的我觉得在道德上没什么不对的
111	with that.	还有那个
112	So the person who takes the five hundred dollars, let's say, he's putting his own price on his	所以,谁拿走500美元的人, 让我们说,他把自己的价格
113	life or on the risk of his life and he should have the freedom to choose to do that.	他应该有选择这样做的自由。
114	Exactly.	没错
115	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
116	Jason.	贾森
117	Jason, thank you.	杰森谢谢你
118	Now we need to hear from another critic of the Civil War system.	现在我们需要听到另一位内战制度的批评者。
119	Yes.	对
120	It's a kind of coercion almost to people who have lower incomes.	这几乎是对收入较低的人的一种胁迫.
121	For Carnegie he can totally ignore the draft.	对卡内基来说,他可以完全忽略草案。
122	Three hundred dollars is irrelevant in terms of his income.	三百元与其收入无关.
123	For someone of a lower income they're essentially being coerced to be drafted or I mean it's	对于一个收入较低的人来说他们基本上被胁迫被征召或者我的意思是
124	probably they're not able to find a replacement.	也许他们找不到替补
125	Tell me your name.	告诉我你的名字。
126	Sam.	萨姆
127	When a poor laborer accepts three hundred dollars to fight in the Civil War he is in	当一个穷苦的工人接受三百元参加内战时
128	effect being coerced by that money given his economic circumstances whereas Carnegie can	鉴于卡内基的经济情况,
129	go off, pay the money and not serve.	走开,付钱,不服务。
130	I want to hear if someone has a reply to Sam's argument that what looks like a free exchange	我想听听如果有人回应了Sam的论点说这看起来像自由交换
131	is actually coercive.	实际上是强迫性的。
132	Who has an answer to Sam?	谁对萨姆有答案?
133	Go ahead.	来吧。
134	I'd actually agree with him in saying that it is coercion in the sense that it robs the	我其实同意他的说法,即这是胁迫,因为它抢劫
135	individual of his ability to reason.	个人的理性能力
136	Okay.	摆
137	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
138	Raul.	劳尔。
139	Alright so Raul and Sam agree that what looks like a free exchange, free choice, voluntary	好吧,所以劳尔和山姆同意这看起来像一个自由交换, 自由选择,自愿
140	act is actually it involves coercion.	行为实际上是胁迫。
141	It's profound coercion of the worst kind because it falls so disproportionately upon one segment	这是最恶劣的强迫因为它不成比例地落在一个部分
142	of the society.	社会。
143	Alright.	还好
144	So Raul and Sam have made a powerful point.	於是劳尔和萨姆提出了强有力的观点.
145	Who would like to reply?	谁想回答?
146	Who has an answer for Sam and Raul?	谁对萨姆和劳尔有答案?
147	Go ahead.	来吧。
148	I just I don't think that these drafting systems are really terribly different from you know	我只是不认为这些起草系统与你知道的非常不同
149	volunteer army sort of recruiting strategies.	志愿军的招募策略
150	The whole idea of you know having benefits and pay for joining the army is you know sort	你知道有福利和为参军付出代价的整个想法是你知道排序
151	of a coercive strategy to get people to join.	强制策略,让人们加入。
152	It is true that military volunteers come from disproportionately you know lower economic	军队的志愿兵确实来自经济水平低的人群
153	status and also you know from certain regions of the country where you can use like the	并且您还知道,从该国某些地区,您可以使用例如:
154	patriotism to try and coerce people to feel like it's the right thing to do to volunteer	爱国主义试图强迫人们觉得志愿工作是正确的
155	and go over to Iraq.	并去伊拉克。
156	And tell me your name.	告诉我你的名字。
157	Emily.	艾米丽。
158	Alright Emily says and Raul you're going to have to reply to this so get ready.	好吧,艾米丽说和劳尔你将不得不回答这一点所以准备。
159	Emily says fair enough there is a coercive element to the civil war system when the laborer	Emily说当工人在内战制度下有强制因素
160	takes the place of Andrew Carnegie for $500.	以500美元取代安德鲁·卡内基
161	Emily conceives that but she says if that troubles you about the civil war system shouldn't	艾蜜莉想的,但她说如果这困扰你关于内战制度,不应该
162	that also trouble you about the volunteer army today?	今天志愿军的事也让你烦恼了?
163	And let me and before you answer how did you vote on the first poll?	让我和在你回答你是如何投票第一次投票?
164	Did you defend the volunteer army?	你保护志愿军了吗?
165	I didn't vote.	我没有投票
166	You didn't vote?	你没投票?
167	By the way you didn't vote?	你没有投票?
168	Did you sell your vote to the person sitting next to you?	你把你的选票卖给坐在你旁边的人了吗?
169	No alright.	没事
170	So what would you say to that argument?	那么,你会对这个争论说什么?
171	I think that the circumstances are different and that there was conscription in the civil	我认为,情况不同,民事部门有征兵制度。
172	war.	战争。
173	There is no draft today and I think that the volunteers for the army today have a more	今天没有草案,我认为今天的志愿军
174	profound sense of patriotism that is of an individual choice than those who were forced	深厚的爱国感是个人的选择,而不是强迫的
175	into the military in the civil war.	在内战中进入军队
176	Somehow less coerced.	不知何故,不那么被胁迫。
177	Less coerced.	少为逼迫.
178	Even though there is still inequality in American society.	尽管美国社会仍然存在不平等.
179	Even though as Emily points out the makeup of the American military is not reflective	虽然Emily指出美国军队的构成并不反映
180	of the population as a whole.	人口总数。
181	Let's just do an experiment here.	我们在这里做个实验
182	How many here have either served in the military or have a family member who has served in	这里有多少人在军队服役或有一个家庭成员曾经在
183	the military?	军队?
184	In this generation.	此辈中.
185	Not parents.	不为父母.
186	Family members.	诸眷属.
187	In this generation.	此辈中.
188	And how many have neither served nor have any brothers or sisters who have served?	有多少人没有服务过,也没有任何兄弟姐妹服务过?
189	Does that bear out your point Emily?	这证实了你的观点吗 Emily?
190	Alright.	还好
191	Now we need to hear from, most of you defended the idea of the all-volunteer military overwhelmingly.	现在,我们需要听到来自, 你们多数人捍卫了这个想法,全志愿军压倒一切。
192	And yet overwhelmingly people considered the civil war system unjust.	但绝大多数人认为内战制度是不公正的。
193	Sam and Raoul articulated reasons for objecting to the civil war system.	Sam和Raoul阐述了反对内战制度的理由。
194	It took place against a background of inequality and therefore the choices people made to buy	这是在不平等的背景下发生的,因此人们选择购买
195	their way into military service were not truly free but at least partly coerced.	他们服兵役并非真正自由,至少是部分胁迫。
196	Then Emily extends that argument in the form of a challenge.	然后艾米莉以挑战的形式扩展了这一论点.
197	Alright everyone here who voted in favor of the all-volunteer army should be able, should	好吧,这里的每一位投票赞成全志愿军,应该能够,应该
198	have to explain, well what's the difference in principle?	得解释一下,原则上有什么区别?
199	Doesn't the all-volunteer army simply universalize the feature that almost everyone found objectionable	全志愿军不就是普遍化吗? 几乎所有人都觉得不妥
200	in the civil war buyout provision?	在内战买断条款?
201	Did I state the challenge fairly Emily?	我说的是艾米丽的挑战吗?
202	Yes.	对
203	Okay so we need to hear from a defender of the all-volunteer military who can address	好吧,所以我们需要听到一个捍卫者全志愿军谁可以解决
204	Emily's challenge.	艾米丽的挑战。
205	Who can do that?	谁能如此?
206	Go ahead.	来吧。
207	The difference between the civil war system and the all-volunteer army system is that	内战制度和全志愿军制度的区别是:
208	in the civil war you're being hired not by the government but by an individual and as	在内战中你受雇的不是政府而是个人
209	a result different people who get hired by different individuals get paid different amounts.	因此,被不同个人雇用的人得到不同的报酬。
210	In the case of the all-volunteer army everyone who gets hired is hired by the government and	对于全志愿军,每个被雇佣的人都是政府雇佣的
211	gets paid the same amount.	得到同样的金额。
212	It's precisely the universalization of essentially paying your way into the army that makes the	这正是普遍支付你的方式进入军队
213	all-volunteer army just...	所有志愿军...
214	Emily?	艾米丽?
215	I guess I'd frame the principle difference slightly differently.	我想我会把原则区别设计得有点不同
216	On the all-volunteer army it's possible for somebody to just step aside and not really	在全志愿军中,有人可以袖手旁观,而并非真的
217	think about the war at all.	想想战争吧
218	It's possible to say well I don't need the money, I don't need to have an opinion about	说得好,我不需要钱,我不需要意见
219	this, I don't need to feel obligated to take my part and defend my country.	这个,我不需要觉得有义务参与和捍卫我的祖国。
220	With a coercive system or with an explicit draft then there's the threat at least that	有了强制系统或明确的草案就会有威胁
221	every individual will have to make some sort of decision regarding military conscription	每个人必须就征兵问题做出某种决定
222	and perhaps in that way it's more equitable.	也许这样比较公平
223	It's true that Andrew Carnegie might not serve in any case but in one he can completely step	安德鲁·卡内基绝对不会服役但他可以完全步入
224	aside from it and in the other there's some level of responsibility.	除了它, 而在另一个有一些程度的责任。
225	While you're there Emily, so what system do you favor, conscription?	你在的时候Emily,你喜欢什么制度?
226	I would be hard pressed to say but I think so because it makes the whole country feel	我很难说但我想是因为它让全国感觉
227	a sense of responsibility for the conflict instead of having a war that's maybe ideologically	一种对冲突的责任感而不是一场也许在意识形态上的战争
228	supported by a few but only if there's no real responsibility.	有少数支持但只有在没有真正责任的情况下
229	Good.	不错
230	Who wants to reply?	谁想回答?
231	Go ahead.	来吧。
232	So I was going to say that the fundamental difference between the all-volunteer army	所以我想说, 根本的区别在所有志愿军
233	and then the army in the Civil War is that in the all-volunteer army if you want to volunteer	内战中的军队是全志愿军中如果你想志愿
234	that comes first and then the pay comes after whereas in the Civil War system the people	先是工资,然后是工资,而内战时期的人民
235	who are accepting the pay aren't necessarily doing it because they want to, they're just	接受报酬的人不一定这样做,因为他们想要,他们只是
236	doing it for the money first.	先为了钱
237	What motivation beyond the pay do you think is operating in the case of the all-volunteer	你认为除了工资之外,什么动机运作对于全志愿者
238	army?	军队?
239	Like patriotism for the country.	如爱国为国.
240	Patriotism.	爱国主义.
241	Well, what about pay?	那么,那报酬呢?
242	And a desire to defend the country.	及欲护国.
243	I mean, there is some motivation in pay but the fact that it's first and foremost an all-volunteer	我的意思是,有一些动机报酬,但事实上,它首先是一个全志愿
244	army will motivate them, I think, personally.	我认为军队会亲自激励他们
245	Do you think it's better, and tell me your name.	你觉得这样更好吗告诉我你的名字
246	Jackie.	城
247	Jackie, do you think it's better if people serve in the military out of a sense of patriotism	Jackie,你觉得在军队服役的人最好有爱国感吗?
248	than just for the money?	不只是为了钱?
249	Yes, definitely because the people who, that was one of the main problems in the Civil	是的,肯定因为人民谁,这是主要问题之一在公民
250	War army is that the people that you're getting to go in it or to go to war aren't necessarily	战争军队是,你得到的人进入它或去打仗不一定
251	people who want to fight and so they won't be as good soldiers as they will be had they	想要打仗的人就不会像他们那样好
252	been there because they wanted to be.	在那里,因为他们想要。
253	Alright, what about Jackie's, having raised the question of patriotism, that patriotism	好吧,那Jackie的, 提出爱国主义的问题, 那爱国主义呢?
254	is a better or a higher motivation than money for military service.	其动机优于或高于兵役金钱。
255	Who would like to address that question?	谁想谈这个问题?
256	Go ahead.	来吧。
257	Patriotism absolutely is not necessary in order to be a good soldier because mercenaries	爱国是绝对没有必要的为了成为好士兵因为雇佣兵
258	can do just as good of a job of the job as anyone who waves the American flag around	可以做一个工作,就像任何人谁挥动美国国旗周围
259	and wants to defend what the government believes that we should do.	并且想为政府认为我们应该做的辩护
260	Did you favor the outsourcing solution?	你赞成外包办法吗?
261	Yes, sir.	是长官
262	And, alright, so let Jackie, let Jackie respond.	好吧让杰姬来回应
263	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
264	Philip.	飞利浦.
265	What about that Jackie?	那个杰基呢?
266	So much for patriotism.	爱国主义就够了
267	If you've got someone whose heart is in it more than another person, they're going to	如果你有个人的心比别人更强他们就会
268	do a better job.	做一个更好的工作。
269	When it comes down to the wire and there's like a situation in which someone has to put	当它下到电线和有类似的情况人必须设置
270	their life on the line, someone who's doing it because they love this country will be	他们的生活在线上, 一个人谁这样做因为他们爱这个国家
271	more willing to go into danger than someone who's just getting paid.	比起刚拿到钱的人更愿意陷入危险
272	They don't care.	他们不在乎。
273	They've got the technical skills, but they don't care what happens because they really	他们有技术,但他们不在乎会发生什么,因为他们真的
274	have, they have nothing like, nothing invested in this country.	他们没有像,没有投资在这个国家。
275	There's another aspect though.	还有另一个方面
276	Once we get onto the issue of patriotism, if you believe patriotism, as Jackie does,	一旦我们谈到爱国主义问题如果你相信爱国主义就像杰基那样
277	should be the foremost consideration and not money, does that argue for or against	应该是首要考虑而不是金钱,
278	the paid army we have now?	现在的军饷?
279	We call it the volunteer army, though if you think about it, that's a kind of misnomer.	我们称它为志愿军,不过如果你考虑一下,那是种错误。
280	A volunteer army, as we use the term, is a paid army.	志愿军,在我们使用这个词的时候,是一支有报酬的军队.
281	So, what about the suggestion that patriotism should be the primary motivation for military	那么,关于爱国主义应该是军队的主要动机的建议呢?
282	service, not money?	服务,不是钱?
283	Does that argue in favor of the paid military that we have or does it argue for conscription?	这是赞成我们拥有的军饷,还是主张征兵?
284	And just to sharpen that point, building on Phil's case for outsourcing, if you think	以菲尔的外包案例为基础如果你认为
285	that the all-volunteer army, the paid army, is best because it lets the market allocate	全志愿军,有薪军, 是最好的,因为它让市场分配
286	positions according to people's preferences and willingness to serve for a certain wage,	根据人们的喜好和愿意服务以获得一定的工资,
287	doesn't the logic that takes you from a system of conscription to the hybrid civil war system	并不是从征兵制度到混合内战制度的逻辑
288	to the all-volunteer army, doesn't the idea of expanding freedom of choice in the market,	对全志愿军来说,这不是扩大市场选择自由的想法,
289	doesn't that lead you all the way, if you follow that principle consistently, to a mercenary army?	这难道不带你一路, 如果你坚持这一原则, 雇佣军军队?
290	And then if you say no, Jackie says no, patriotism should count for something,	如果你说不,杰基说不,爱国主义应该算什么,
291	doesn't that argue for going back to conscription?	这不代表要重新入伍吗?
292	If by patriotism you mean a sense of civic obligation, let's see if we can step back	如果爱国主义是指公民义务感让我们看看能不能退后
293	from the discussion that we've had and see what we've learned about consent as it applies	从我们的讨论并看看我们学到了什么关于同意,因为它适用
294	to market exchange.	到市场交易。
295	We've really heard two arguments, two arguments against the use of markets and exchange	我们确实听到两个论点,两个反对利用市场和交换的论点
296	in the allocation of military service.	在兵役分配方面。
297	One was the argument raised by Sam and Raoul, the argument about coercion.	其中一个是Sam和Raoul提出的论点,关于胁迫的论点。
298	The objection that letting the market allocate military service may be unfair and may not	反对让市场分配兵役可能是不公平的,而且可能不会
299	even be free if there's severe inequality in the society so that people who buy their	如果社会上存在严重的不平等,甚至可以自由,这样人们就能够买下他们的
300	way into military service are doing so not because they really want to, but because they	服兵役不是因为他们真的想要,而是因为他们
301	have so few economic opportunities that that's their best choice.	经济机会如此之少才是他们最好的选择
302	And Sam and Raoul say there's an element of coercion in that.	萨姆和拉乌尔说,这里面有强制的因素.
303	That's one argument.	这是一个争论。
304	Then there is a second objection to using the market to allocate military service.	然后,有人第二次反对利用市场分配兵役。
305	That's the idea that military service shouldn't be treated as just another job for pay because	这就是为什么兵役不应该被当做又一份有报酬的工作
306	it's bound up with patriotism and civic obligation.	它与爱国主义和公民义务联系在一起。
307	This is a different argument from the argument about unfairness and inequality and coercion.	这与关于不公平、不平等和胁迫的论点不同。
308	It's an argument that suggests that maybe where civic obligations are concerned, we	这个论点表明,也许在公民义务方面,我们
309	shouldn't allocate duties and rights by the market.	市场不应该分配责任和权利。
310	Now, we've identified two broad objections.	现在,我们已经确定了两个广泛的反对意见。
311	What do we need to know to assess those objections?	我们需要知道什么来评估这些反对意见?
312	To assess the first, the argument from coercion, inequality and unfairness, Sam, we need to	为了评估第一点,即胁迫、不平等和不公平的论点,Sam,我们需要
313	ask what inequalities in the background conditions of society undermine the freedom of choices	问社会背景条件的不平等如何损害选择自由
314	people make to buy and sell their labor?	人们为了买卖他们的劳动力?
315	Question number one.	问曰.
316	Question number two, to assess the civic obligation patriotism argument, we have to ask, what	问题二,为了评估公民义务爱国论,我们必须问:
317	are the obligations of citizenship?	公民身份的义务是什么?
318	Is military service one of them or not?	兵役是其中之一吗?
319	What obligates us as citizens?	我们作为公民负有什么义务?
320	What is the source of political obligation?	政治义务的来源是什么?
321	Is it consent or are there some civic obligations we have, even without consent, for living	是同意,还是有些公民义务... ...即使没有同意,我们的生活
322	and sharing in a certain kind of society?	在某种社会中分享?
323	We haven't answered either of those questions, but our debate today about the civil war system	我们没有回答这两个问题,但是我们今天关于内战制度的辩论
324	and the all-volunteer army has at least raised them, and those are questions we're going	志愿军至少把他们养大了这些是我们要去的问题
325	to return to in the coming weeks.	将在未来几周内返回。
326	Do you think you should be able to bid for a baby that's up for adoption?	你觉得你应该买个要领养的孩子吗?
327	That's Andrew's challenge.	这是安德鲁的挑战。
328	Do I think I should be able to bid for a baby?	我想我应该能买到孩子吗?
329	I'm not sure.	我不太确定说不定
330	It's a market.	这是一个市场。
331	Today, I'd like to turn our attention and get your views about an argument over the	今天,我想转移我们的注意力并获得你的观点关于一个争论
332	role of markets in the realm of human reproduction and procreation.	市场在人类生殖和生育领域的作用。
333	Now, with infertility clinics, people advertise for egg donors, and from time to time in the	现在,在不孕症诊所, 人们广告鸡蛋捐赠者, 不时在
334	Harvard Crimson, ads appear for egg donors.	哈佛Crimson,广告出现为鸡蛋捐献者.
335	Have you seen them?	你见过他们吗?
336	There was one that ran a few years ago that wasn't looking for just any egg donor.	几年前有一次跑步不是为了寻找任何捐蛋者
337	It was an ad that offered a large financial incentive for an egg donor from a woman who	这是一个广告,它提供了一个巨大的经济激励从一个女性的鸡蛋捐赠者
338	was intelligent, athletic, at least 5 foot 10, and with at least 1,400 or above on her	聪明,运动,至少5英尺10, 和至少1400或以上她
339	SATs (英语).
340	How much do you think the person looking for this egg donor was willing to pay for an egg	你觉得那个买鸡蛋的人愿意付多少钱买鸡蛋?
341	from a woman of that description?	从一个女人的描述?
342	What would you guess?	你猜怎么着?
343	$1,000?	1000块?
344	$15,000?	15,000美元吗?
345	$10,000?	1万块?
346	I'll show you the ad.	我给你看广告
347	$50,000 for an egg, but only a premium egg.	5万块的鸡蛋,但只有高价的鸡蛋。
348	What do you think about that?	你觉得怎么样?
349	Well, there are also sometimes ads in the Harvard Crimson and other college newspapers	有时哈佛大学的报纸和其他大学的报纸也会刊登广告
350	for sperm donors.	为献精者。
351	So the market in reproductive capacities is an equal opportunity market.	因此,生殖能力市场是一个平等机会市场。
352	Well, not exactly equal opportunity.	机会并不均等
353	They're not offering $50,000 for sperm.	他们不给精子5万元
354	But there is a company, a large commercial sperm bank, that markets sperm.	但是,有一个公司, 一个大型的商业精子库, 销售精子。
355	It's called California Cryobank.	其名称取自加利福尼亚州Cryobank.
356	It's a for-profit company.	以利为业.
357	It imposes exacting standards on the sperm it recruits.	它对其招募的精子规定了严格的标准。
358	And it has offices in Cambridge between Harvard and MIT and in Palo Alto near Stanford.	并在剑桥的哈佛和麻省理工学院之间以及斯坦福附近的帕洛阿尔托设有办事处.
359	Cryobank's marketing materials play up the prestigious source of its sperm.	Cryobank的销售材料充斥着它的精子的著名来源
360	这是Cryobank网站上的信息
361	Here they talk about the compensation.	他们在这里谈论补偿。
362	Although compensation should not be the only reason for becoming a sperm donor,	虽然补偿不应该是成为精子捐献者的唯一原因,
363	we are aware of the considerable time and expense involved in being a donor.	我们意识到,作为捐助国需要花费大量时间和开支。
364	So do you know what they offer?	你知道他们提供什么吗?
365	Donors will be reimbursed $75 per specimen, up to $900 a month if you donate three times a week.	捐赠者每个标本可报销75美元,如果每周捐赠三次,每月可报销900美元。
366	And then they add, we periodically offer incentives such as movie tickets	然后他们又说,我们定期提供奖励比如电影票
367	or gift certificates for the extra time and effort expended by participating donors.	或关于参与捐助者所花额外时间和努力的礼品证书。
368	It's not easy to be a sperm donor.	当精液捐献者不易.
369	They accept fewer than 5% of the donors who apply.	申请的捐助者不到5%。
370	Their admission criteria are more demanding than Harvard's.	他们的录取标准比哈佛更严格.
371	The head of the sperm bank said the ideal sperm donor is six feet tall,	精子库的负责人说理想的精子捐献者高六英尺
372	with a college degree, brown eyes, blonde hair, and dimples,	有大学学位棕色的眼睛金发酒窝
373	for the simple reason that these are the traits that the market has shown the customers want.	原因很简单这些是市场显示客户想要的特征
374	Quoting the head of the sperm bank,	引用精子库的负责人,
375	if our customers wanted high school dropouts, we would give them high school dropouts.	如果我们的顾客想要高中辍学, 我们会给他们高中辍学。
376	So here are two instances, the market in eggs for donation and the market in sperm,	这里有两个例子: 捐卵市场和精子市场
377	that raise a question.	这引起了一个问题。
378	A question about whether eggs and sperm should or should not be bought and sold for money.	关于鸡蛋和精子是否应该为了钱而买卖的问题.
379	As you ponder that, I want you to consider another case involving a market	想想看,我要你再考虑一起涉及市场的案子
380	and in fact a contract in human reproductive, in the human reproductive capacity.	事实上,这是人类生殖能力的契约。
381	And this is the case of commercial surrogate motherhood.	这就是商业代孕母亲的情况。
382	And it's a case that wound up in court some years ago.	这案子是几年前在法庭上结的
383	It's the story of Baby M.	这是婴儿M的故事。
384	It began with William and Elizabeth Stern, a professional couple, wanting a baby,	一开始是威廉和伊丽莎白・斯特恩职业夫妇想要个孩子
385	but they couldn't have one on their own, at least not without medical risk to Mrs. Stern.	但他们不能自己拥有一个至少不给斯特恩夫人带来医疗风险
386	They went to an infertility clinic where they met Marybeth Whitehead,	他们去了一个不孕症诊所在那里他们遇到了玛丽贝丝·怀特黑德,
387	a 29-year-old mother of two, the wife of a sanitation worker.	29岁的母亲两个, 一个卫生工人的妻子。
388	She had replied to an ad that the center had placed, seeking the service of a surrogate mother.	她答复了中心张贴的广告,寻求代孕母亲的服务。
389	They made a deal.	他们做了个交易
390	They signed a contract in which William Stern agreed to pay Marybeth Whitehead a $10,000 fee,	他们签了一份合同威廉·斯特恩同意向玛丽贝斯·怀特黑德支付一万美元的费用
391	plus all expenses, in exchange for which Marybeth Whitehead agreed to be artificially inseminated	再加上所有费用作为交换玛丽贝丝·怀特黑德同意人工注射
392	with William Stern's sperm to bear the child and then to give the baby to the Sterns.	带着威廉·斯特恩的精子生孩子,然后把孩子交给斯特恩夫妇.
393	Well, you probably know how the story unfolded.	嗯,你也许知道故事是如何展开的。
394	Marybeth gave birth and changed her mind.	玛丽贝斯生下孩子,改变了主意.
395	She decided she wanted to keep the baby.	她决定要保留孩子
396	The case wound up in court in New Jersey.	案件在新泽西州的法庭上结束.
397	So let's put aside any legal questions and focus on this issue as a moral question.	因此,让我们把任何法律问题放在一边,把这个问题作为一个道德问题集中起来.
398	How many believe that the right thing to do in the Baby M. case would have been to uphold the contract,	有多少人认为在Baby M. 的案子里应该做的是维持合同
399	to enforce the contract, and how many think the right thing to do would have been not to enforce that contract?	有多少人认为不该执行合同?
400	So it's about the majority say enforce.	多数人说执行
401	So let's now hear the reasons that people had either for enforcing or refusing to enforce this contract.	现在让我们来听听人们有执行或拒绝执行这个合同的理由。
402	First from those, I want to hear from someone in the majority.	首先,我想听到多数人的声音。
403	Why do you uphold the contract?	你为什么坚持合同?
404	Why do you enforce it?	为什么要强制执行它?
405	Who can offer a reason?	谁能提供理由?
406	Yes, stand up.	是的,站起来。
407	It's a binding contract.	这是一份具有约束力的合同。
408	All the parties involved knew the terms of the contract before any action was taken.	所有有关当事方在采取任何行动之前都知道合同的条款。
409	It's a voluntary agreement.	自愿协议.
410	The mother knew what she was getting into.	母亲知道她要卷入什么
411	All four, intelligent adults, regardless of formal education, whatever.	四者,聪明的成年人,不论正规教育,无论什么.
412	So it makes sense that if you know what you're getting into beforehand and you make a promise, you should uphold that promise in the end.	所以,如果你知道你事先进到什么并做出承诺,你应该坚持这个承诺。
413	Okay.	摆
414	A deal is a deal, in other words.	换句话说,交易就是交易。
415	Exactly.	没错
416	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
417	Patrick.	派屈克派屈克派屈克
418	Is Patrick's reason the reason that most of you in the majority favored upholding a contract?	你们多数人赞成维持合同是因为帕特里克的原因吗?
419	Yes?	是吗?
420	All right.	好吧,我们走。
421	Let's hear now someone who would not enforce the contract.	让我们听听谁不会执行合同。
422	What do you say to Patrick?	你怎么跟帕特里克说?
423	Why not?	为什么不呢?
424	Yes.	对
425	Well, I mean, I agree.	我是说我同意
426	I think contracts should be upheld when all the parties know all the information.	我认为,当所有各方都知道所有信息时,合同就应当得到维护。
427	But in this case, I don't think there's a way a mother before the child exists could actually know how she's going to feel about that child.	但是在这种情况下,我认为在孩子存在之前,母亲不可能真正知道她对孩子的感受.
428	So I don't think the mother actually had all the information.	所以我不认为母亲真的有所有的信息。
429	She didn't know the person that was going to be born and didn't know how much she would love that person.	她不认识将要出生的人,也不知道她会有多爱他.
430	So that's my argument.	这就是我的论点。
431	So you would not.	所以你不会。
432	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
433	Evan Wilson.	埃文・威尔逊。
434	Evan says he would not uphold the contract because when it was entered into, the surrogate mother couldn't be expected to know in advance how she would feel.	埃文说,他不会支持合同,因为签订合同时,不能期望代孕母亲事先知道她的感受.
435	So she didn't really have the relevant information when she made that contract.	所以当她签订合同时,她并没有真正掌握相关信息.
436	Who else?	还有谁?
437	Who else would not uphold the contract?	还有谁不支持合同?
438	Yes?	是吗?
439	I also think that a contract should generally be uphold, but I think that the child has an inalienable right to its actual mother.	我也认为,合同一般应该得到维护,但我认为,孩子对其实际母亲拥有不可剥夺的权利。
440	And I think that if that mother wants it, then that child should have the right to that mother.	我想如果那个母亲想要的话那那个孩子应该有权接近那个母亲
441	You mean the biological mother, not the adoptive mother.	你是说生母不是养母
442	Right.	对
443	And why is that?	为什么?
444	First of all, tell me your name.	首先,告诉我你的名字。
445	Anna.	安娜,请问安娜
446	Why is that Anna?	为什么是安娜?
447	Because I think that bond that is created by nature is stronger than any bond that is created by a contract.	因为我认为大自然创造的纽带比契约创造的任何纽带都要强大
448	Good.	不错
449	Thank you.	谢谢
450	Who else?	还有谁?
451	Yes?	是吗?
452	I disagree.	我不同意这个观点。
453	I don't think that a child has an inalienable right to her biological mother.	我不认为孩子对生母有不可剥夺的权利.
454	I think that adoption and surrogacy are both legitimate tradeoffs.	我认为收养和代孕都是合法的权衡。
455	And I agree with the point made that it's a voluntary agreement, an individual made it's a voluntary agreement, and you can't apply coercion to this argument.	我同意这个观点,即这是自愿协议,个人是自愿协议,你不能对这个论点施加强制.
456	You can't apply the objection from coercion to this argument.	你不能把强制的反对应用到这个论点。
457	Correct.	没错
458	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
459	Kathleen.	凯瑟琳
460	Kathleen, what do you say to Evan that though there may not have been...	凯瑟琳你怎么跟埃文说虽然可能没有...
461	Evan claimed that the consent was tainted not by coercion, but by lack of adequate information.	埃文声称,同意不是受到胁迫,而是缺乏充分的信息。
462	She couldn't have known the relevant information, namely how she would feel about the child.	她不可能知道相关信息也就是她对孩子的感受
463	What do you say to that?	你说呢?
464	I don't think the emotional content of her feelings plays into this.	我并不认为她感情中的情感内容会起到作用.
465	I think in a case of law, in the justice of this scenario, her change of feelings are not relevant.	我认为,在法律案件中,在这种情况下的正义中,她的改变感情无关紧要.
466	If I give up my child for adoption and then I decide later on that I really want that child back, too bad.	如果我把孩子送去收养,然后我决定我真的想要孩子回来,太糟糕了。
467	It's a tradeoff.	谓取舍.
468	It's a tradeoff that the mother has made.	母已作是权衡.
469	So a deal is a deal.	所以说交易就是交易
470	Well, you agree with Patrick.	你同意帕特里克的观点
471	I agree with Patrick.	我同意帕特里克的意见。
472	A deal is a deal.	一言为定
473	Yes.	对
474	I would say that though I'm not really sure if I agree with the idea that the child has a right to their mother,	我会说,虽然我不确定我是否真的同意这个想法, 即孩子有权与他们的母亲,
475	I think the mother definitely has a right to her child.	我觉得母亲对孩子有权利
476	And I also think that there are some areas where market forces shouldn't necessarily penetrate.	我也认为,有些领域市场力量不应该渗透到。
477	I think that the whole surrogate mother area smacks a little bit of dealing in human beings, seems dehumanizing.	我认为整个代孕母亲区拍了一点点人类交易, 似乎非人性化。
478	And it doesn't really seem right.	似乎不太对劲
479	So that's my main reason.	所以这就是我的主要原因。
480	And what is – tell us your name.	告诉我们你的名字
481	I'm Andrew.	我是安德鲁
482	Andrew, what is dehumanizing about buying and selling the right to a child for money?	安德鲁,买买买买买买买买买买买买买买孩子的权利,有什么非人性化的?
483	What is dehumanizing about it?	何谓非人道.
484	Well, because you're buying someone's biological right.	因为你在买别人的生物权利
485	I mean, you can't – in the law, as it's said, you can't sell your own child.	我的意思是,你不能——在法律中,正如它所说的,你不能出卖自己的孩子.
486	Like, were you to have a child, I believe that the law prohibits you selling it to another person.	喜欢,如果你要有一个孩子, 我相信法律禁止你卖给另一个人。
487	So this is like baby selling.	这就像卖婴儿。
488	Right.	对
489	To a certain extent.	在某种程度上
490	I mean, though there is a contract with another person, you've made agreements and whatnot,	我的意思是,虽然有一个合同与另一个人,你已经达成协议什么的,
491	there is an undeniable emotional bond that takes place between a mother and a child.	母亲和孩子之间有着不可否认的情感纽带。
492	And it's wrong to simply ignore this because you've written out something contractually.	而忽略这一点是错误的, 因为你已经写出了一些合同。
493	You want to reply to Andrew?	你想回答安德鲁吗?
494	Stay there.	别动
495	You point out there's an undeniable emotional bond.	你指出有一种不可否认的情感联系.
496	I feel like in this situation, we're not necessarily arguing against adoption or surrogacy in itself.	我觉得在这种情况下,我们并不一定反对收养或代孕本身.
497	We're just sort of pointing out the emotional differences.	我们只是指出情绪上的差异。
498	Well, but wait.	好吧,不过等等。
499	I mean, it's easy to break everything down to numbers and say, oh, we have contracts like you're buying and selling a car.	我的意思是,这是很容易打破所有的数字说,哦,我们有合同像你正在买卖一辆车。
500	But there are underlying emotions.	但有内在的情绪
501	I mean, you're dealing with people.	我的意思是,你处理的人。
502	I mean, these are not objects to be bought and sold.	我的意思是,这些不是要买卖的物品。
503	All right.	好吧,我们走。
504	What about Andrew's claim that this is like baby selling?	安德鲁声称这就像卖婴儿?
505	I believe that adoption and surrogacy should be permitted.	我认为,应当允许收养和代孕。
506	Whether or not I actually will partake in it is not really relevant.	不管我是否真的会参与其中都无关紧要
507	But I think that the government should give its citizens the rights to allow for adoption and surrogacy.	但我认为政府应该赋予公民允许收养和代孕的权利.
508	But adoption is not according to the law.	但收养不依法进行。
509	Is adoption baby selling?	领养婴儿卖吗?
510	Well, do you think you should be able to bid for a baby that's up for adoption?	你觉得你应该买个要领养的孩子吗?
511	That's Andrew's challenge.	这是安德鲁的挑战。
512	Do I think I should be able to bid for a baby?	我想我应该能买到孩子吗?
513	I'm not sure.	我不太确定说不定
514	It's a market.	这是一个市场。
515	I mean, I feel like the extent to which it's been applied, I'm not sure if the government should be able to permit it.	我的意思是,我觉得它应用的程度, 我不知道政府是否应该允许它。
516	And I have to think about it more.	我必须多考虑一下
517	But all right.	但没关系。
518	Fair enough.	不错
519	Are you satisfied, Andrew?	你满意了吗,安德鲁?
520	Well, yeah, I mean, I just I think surrogacy should be permitted.	嗯,是的,我的意思是,我只是觉得应该允许代孕。
521	I think that people can do it.	我认为人们可以做到这一点。
522	But I don't think that it should be forced upon people that once the contract is signed, it's it's absolutely like the end all.	但我不认为应该强迫人们一旦签约, 这是绝对像结束的一切。
523	I think that it's unenforceable.	我认为这是不可执行的。
524	So people should be free, Andrew, to enter into these contracts.	因此人们应该有自由,安德鲁,来签订这些合同.
525	But it should not be enforceable in a court.	但它不应在法庭上强制执行。
526	Not in the court.	不在宫中.
527	No.	没有
528	Who would like to join on one side or the other?	谁愿意加入一方或另一方?
529	Yes.	对
530	I think I have an interesting perspective on this because my brother was actually one of the people who donated to a sperm bank and he was paid a very large amount of money.	我对这件事的看法很感兴趣因为我哥哥其实是向精子银行捐钱的人之一他得到很多钱
531	He was six feet tall, but not blonde.	他身高六英尺,但不是金发
532	He had dimples, though.	不过他有酒窝
533	So he actually has I'm an aunt now and he has a daughter.	所以他真的把我当姑妈了他有个女儿
534	He donated his sperm to a lesbian couple in Oklahoma and he has been contacted by them and he has seen pictures of his daughter.	他把自己的精子捐给了俄克拉荷马州的一对女同性恋夫妇,他也得到了他们的联系,他还看到了他女儿的照片.
535	But he still does not feel an emotional bond to his daughter.	但是他仍然感觉不到他女儿的感情纽带.
536	He just has a sense of curiosity about what she looks like and what she's doing and how she is.	他只是对她长什么样子在做什么以及她是如何的好奇心
537	He doesn't feel love for his child.	他对孩子不感兴趣
538	So from this experience, I think the bond between a mother and a child cannot be compared to the bond between the father and the child.	因此从这个经验来看,我认为母亲和孩子之间的纽带不能与父亲和孩子之间的纽带相比.
539	That's really interesting.	这真的很有趣。
540	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
541	Vivian.	维维亚
542	So we've got the case of surrogacy, commercial surrogacy, and it's been compared to baby selling.	因此,我们有了代孕,商业代孕的案例,被比作卖婴儿.
543	And we've been exploring whether that analogy is apt.	我们一直在探索这个类比是否合适。
544	And it can also be compared, as you point out, to sperm selling.	正如你所指出,它也可以与精子销售相比较。
545	But you're saying that sperm selling and baby selling or even surrogacy are very different.	但你的意思是精子卖和婴儿卖甚至代孕是截然不同的
546	Yes, they're unequal services.	是的,他们是不平等的服务。
547	They're unequal services.	他们是不平等的服务。
548	And that's because, Vivian, you say that the tie, the bond...	这是因为,薇薇安,你说的领带,纽带...
549	Yes, and also the time investment that's given by a mother, nine months, cannot be compared to a man going into a sperm bank, looking at pornography, depositing into a cup.	对,还有母亲给予的时间投资,九个月,不能与进入精子库,看色情,存入杯子的人相比.
550	I don't think those are equal.	我不认为这些是平等的。
551	Good.	不错
552	All right.	好吧,我们走。
553	So we...	所以我们...
554	Because that's what happens in a sperm bank.	因为精子库就是这样的
555	So this is really interesting.	所以这真的很有趣。
556	We have...	我们...
557	Notice the arguments that have come out so far.	注意目前为止的争论
558	The objections to surrogacy, the objections to enforcing that contract, are of at least two kinds.	反对代孕,反对执行该合同,至少有两种。
559	There was the objection about tainted consent, this time not because of coercion or implicit coercion, but because of imperfect or flawed information.	有人反对错误的同意,这次不是因为胁迫或隐含的胁迫,而是因为信息不完善或有缺陷。
560	So tainted or flawed consent can arise either because of coercion or because of a lack of relevant information, at least according to one argument that we've heard.	因此,有污点或有缺陷的同意可能是由于胁迫或缺乏相关信息,至少根据我们听到的一个论点。
561	And then a second objection to enforcing the surrogacy contract was that it was somehow dehumanizing.	然后,对执行代孕合同的第二个反对意见是,它不知何故非人性化。
562	Now, when this case was decided by the courts, what did they say about these arguments?	当这个案子被法院裁决时, 他们对这些论点怎么说?
563	The lower court ruled that the contract was enforceable.	下级法院裁定合同可以执行。
564	Neither party had a superior bargaining position.	任何一方都不具备高级谈判地位。
565	A price for the service was struck and a bargain was reached.	服务价格被打破,并达成了交易。
566	One side didn't force the other.	一方没有强迫另一方。
567	Neither had disproportionate bargaining power.	也没有过大的讨价还价能力。
568	Then it went to the New Jersey Supreme Court.	之后它去了新泽西州最高法院.
569	And what did they do?	他们做了什么?
570	They said this contract is not enforceable.	他们说这份合同不能执行.
571	They did grant custody to Mr. Stern as the father because they thought that would be in the best interest of the child.	他们确实将监护权授予作为父亲的Stern先生,因为他们认为这样做符合孩子的最大利益。
572	But they restored the rights of Marybeth Whitehead and left it to lower courts to decide exactly what the visitation rights should be.	但他们恢复了玛丽贝特·怀特黑德的权利,并留给下级法院确切决定探视权应该是什么.
573	They invoked two different kinds of reasons along the lines that Andrew proposed.	他们按照安德鲁提出的思路,引用了两种不同的理由.
574	First, there was not sufficiently informed consent, the court argued.	首先,法院辩称,没有足够的知情同意。
575	Under the contract, the natural mother is irrevocably committed before she knows the strength of her bond with her child.	根据合同,生母在知道自己与孩子的关系力之前,是不可撤销的。
576	She never makes a truly voluntary informed decision.	她从来没有做出一个真正的自愿知情的决定。
577	For any decision prior to the baby's birth is, in the most important sense, uninformed.	对于婴儿出生前的任何决定,从最重要的意义上来说,都是不知情的.
578	That was the court.	那是法庭
579	Then the court also made a version of the second argument against commodification in this kind of case.	之后,法院又对此类案件中的第二个反对商品化的论点做了一个版本.
580	This is the sale of a child, the court said.	法院说,这是买卖儿童。
581	Or at the very least, the sale of a mother's right to her child.	或至少卖母权于子.
582	Whatever idealism may motivate the participants, the profit motive predominates, permeates, and ultimately governs the transaction.	无论理想主义可能激发参与者,利润动机占主导地位、渗透并最终支配交易。
583	And so regardless, the court said, regardless of any argument about consent or flawed consent or full information,	因此,无论法院说,无论关于同意或有缺陷的同意或充分信息的任何论点,
584	there are some things in a civilized society that money can't buy.	在一个文明的社会中,有些东西是钱买不到的.
585	That's what the court said in voiding this contract.	朝廷在废除这份合同时也是这么说的.
586	Well, what about these two arguments against the extension of markets to procreation and to reproduction?	那么,这两个反对扩大市场生育和繁殖的论点呢?
587	How persuasive are they?	他们有多有说服力?
588	There was, it's true, a voluntary agreement, a contract struck between William Stern and Mary Beth Whitehead.	威廉·斯特恩和玛丽·贝丝·怀特黑德之间签了合同
589	But there are at least two ways that consent can be other than truly free.	但至少有两种方式,同意可以是真正自由的。
590	First, if people are pressured or coerced to give their agreement.	第一,如果人们受到压力或被迫表示同意。
591	And second, if their consent is not truly informed.	其次,如果他们的同意没有被真正告知。
592	And in the case of surrogacy, the court said, a mother can't know, even one who already has kids of her own,	在代孕案件中,法庭说, 一个母亲不能知道, 即使一个已经有自己的孩子,
593	what it would be like to bear a child and give it up for pay.	生孩子然后为了报酬而放弃孩子的感受
594	So in order to assess criticism, objection number one,	所以为了评估批评,反对第一,
595	we have to figure out just how free does a voluntary exchange have to be	我们必须弄清楚自愿的交换必须有多自由
596	with respect to the bargaining power and equal information.	关于讨价还价的能力和平等的信息。
597	Question number one, how do we assess the second objection?	问题一:如何评估第二次反对?
598	The second objection is more elusive, it's more difficult.	第二项反对比较难捉摸,比较困难.
599	Andrew acknowledged this, right?	安德鲁承认了对吧?
600	What does it mean to say there is something dehumanizing to make childbearing a market transaction?	说有非人性化的东西让生育成为市场交易是什么意思?
601	我们读过的一个哲学家 Elizabeth Anderson
602	tries to give some, bring some philosophical clarity to the unease that Andrew articulated.	给安德鲁表达的不安带来一些哲学上的清晰
603	She said by requiring the surrogate mother to repress whatever parental love she feels for the child,	她说要求代孕母亲压制她对孩子的爱
604	surrogacy contracts convert women's labor into a form of alienated labor.	代孕合同将妇女的劳动转化为一种疏远的劳动形式.
605	The surrogate's labor is alienated because she must divert it from the end,	代孕者的劳动被疏远了因为她必须把它从最后转移
606	from the end which the social practices of pregnancy rightly promote,	从怀孕的社会习俗正确提倡的结束,
607	namely an emotional bond with her child.	也就是和她孩子的感情纽带
608	So what Anderson is suggesting is that certain goods should not be treated as open to use or to profit.	所以安德森的意思是,某些商品不应该被当作是开放使用或盈利的。
609	Certain goods are properly valued in ways other than use.	某些货物的价值不以使用的方式适当估价。
610	What are other ways of valuing and treating goods that should not be open to use?	不应允许使用的商品的估价和处理还有其他哪些方法?
611	Anderson says there are many, respect, appreciation, love, honor, awe, sanctity.	安德森说有许多,尊重,欣赏,爱,荣誉,敬畏,神圣.
612	There are many modes of valuation beyond use and certain goods are not properly valued	除了使用之外,有许多估价方式,某些货物没有适当估价。
613	if they're treated simply as objects of use.	如果它们被简单地当作使用对象。
614	How do we go about evaluating that argument of Anderson?	我们如何去评估安德森的论点?
615	In a way it takes us back to the debate we had with utilitarianism.	从某种意义上说,它使我们回到了我们关于功利主义的辩论。
616	Is use the only, is utility, is use the only proper way of treating goods,	这是唯一的用途,是用途,是处理商品的唯一适当方式,
617	including life, military service, procreation, childbearing?	包括生命、兵役、生育、生育?
618	And if not, how do we figure out, how can we determine what modes of valuation	如果不行,我们如何确定,我们如何确定什么估价模式
619	are fitting or appropriate to those goods?	是否适合这些货物?
620	Several years ago there was a scandal surrounding a doctor,	几年前有个医生的丑闻
621	an infertility specialist in Virginia named Cecil Jacobson.	弗吉尼亚州的一个不孕症专家叫塞西尔·雅各布森
622	He didn't have a donor catalog because unknown to his patients,	他没有捐赠目录因为他的病人不知道
623	all of the sperm he used to inseminate his patients came from one donor, Dr. Jacobson himself.	他用来摄入病人精液的所有精液都来自一个捐献者,雅各布森医生本人.
624	At least one woman who testified in court was unnerved	至少有一名在法庭上作证的妇女没有感到忧虑
625	at how much her newborn daughter looked just like him.	她的新生女儿长得像他
626	Now, it's possible to condemn Dr. Jacobson for failing to inform the women in advance.	现在,可以谴责雅各布森医生没有事先通知妇女.
627	That would be the argument about consent.	这就是关于同意的论点。
628	The columnist Ellen Goodman described the bizarre scenario as follows.	专栏作家埃伦·古德曼(英语:Ellen Goodman)将奇异的情景描述如下.
629	Dr. Jacobson, she wrote, gave his infertility business the personal touch.	她写道,雅各布森博士给他的不孕症生意个人的触摸。
630	But now the rest of us, she wrote, are in for a round of second thoughts about sperm donation.	但是现在我们其他人,她写道, 对于捐赠精子的第二轮想法。
631	Goodman concluded that fatherhood should be something you do, not something you donate.	古德曼总结道,父亲身份应该是你做的事,而不是你捐赠的东西.
632	And I think what she was doing, and what the philosopher Elizabeth Anderson is doing,	我认为她在做什么哲学家伊丽莎白·安德森在做什么
633	and what Andrew was suggesting with his argument about dehumanization,	安德鲁用他关于非人化的争论所暗示的
634	is pondering whether there are certain goods that money shouldn't buy,	正在思考是否有某些商品,钱不应该购买,
635	not just because of tainted consent, but also perhaps because certain goods are properly valued	不仅因为同意有污点,而且可能因为某些货物有适当的估价
636	in a way higher than mere use.	以某种方式高于仅仅使用。
637	Those at least are the questions we're going to pursue with the help of some philosophers in the weeks to come.	这些至少就是我们在未来几周中在一些哲学家的帮助下要追求的问题.
638	For other viewers of Justice, join the conversation, take a pop quiz,	对于其他的观众,正义,加入对话, 参加一个流行的测验,
639	watch lectures you've missed and learn a lot more.	看你错过的讲座学到更多
640	请访问justiceharvard.org.
641	It's the right thing to do.	谓之正法.
642	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
643	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。

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P9 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p09 8. 8.谎言的教训 (P9)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p09 8. 8.谎言的教训 (P9)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 55:04

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:07	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:29	Last time we began	上次开始
0:32	trying to	试图
0:33	we began by trying to navigate our way through	我们开始试图通过我们的道路
0:37	Kant's moral theory.	康德的道德理论.
0:41	Now,	现在,
0:42	fully to make sense	完全讲道理
0:45	of Kant's moral theory in the groundwork	康德的道德理论的基础
0:48	requires that we be able to answer	需要我们能够回答

展开字幕全文（1502 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
2	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
3	Last time we began	上次开始
4	trying to	试图
5	we began by trying to navigate our way through	我们开始试图通过我们的道路
6	Kant's moral theory.	康德的道德理论.
7	Now,	现在,
8	fully to make sense	完全讲道理
9	of Kant's moral theory in the groundwork	康德的道德理论的基础
10	requires that we be able to answer	需要我们能够回答
11	three questions.	三问.
12	How can duty and autonomy	义务和自主如何
13	go together?	一起去吗?
14	What's the great dignity	伟大的尊严是什么
15	in answering to duty?	在应职?
16	It would seem that these two ideas are opposed,	似乎这两个想法是对立的,
17	duty and autonomy.	义务和自主权。
18	What's Kant's answer to that?	康德对此有何回应?.
19	I need someone here to speak up on Kant's behalf.	我需要有人来代表康德说话
20	Does he have an answer?	他有答案吗?
21	Yes, go ahead, stand up.	是的,继续,站起来。
22	Kant believes that you only act autonomously	康德认为你只能自主行事
23	when you are pursuing	当你追求的时候,
24	something only in the name of duty	只是以职责的名义
25	and not because of your own circumstances	不是因为你自己的情况
26	such as, like, you're only doing something	比如说,你只是在做一些事情
27	good and moral	善与道义
28	if you're doing it because of duty	如果你这样做是出于职责
29	and not because of something of your own personal gains.	不是因为你个人的收获
30	Now, why is that acting at, what's your name?	为什么演戏,你叫什么名字?
31	Mine is Matt.	我是马特。
32	Matt, why is that acting out of freedom?	马特,为什么这是出于自由?
33	I hear what you're saying about duty.	我听到你在说什么关于职责。
34	Because you choose to accept those moral laws in yourself	因为你自己选择接受这些道德法则
35	and not brought on from outside upon onto you.	而不是从外面引到你身上
36	Okay, good.	好吧,不错。
37	Because acting out of duty	因为行为失职
38	is following a moral law	正在遵循道德法则
39	that you impose on yourself.	你将自己强加于人。
40	That's what makes duty compatible with freedom.	这使得责任与自由相容.
41	Okay, that's good, Matt.	好吧,这是很好的,马特。
42	That is Kant's answer.	这是康德的回答。
43	That's great.	赞曰.
44	Thank you.	谢谢
45	So, Kant's answer is	所以康德的回答是
46	it is not in so far	现在还没有
47	as I am subject to the law	因为我受法律约束
48	that I have dignity,	我有尊严,
49	but rather in so far as,	但实际上,
50	with regard to that very same law,	关于同一法律,
51	I'm the author.	我为作者.
52	And I'm subordinated to that law	我服从法律
53	on that grounds	因此,
54	that I took it, as Matt just said,	我把它,正如马特刚刚说,
55	I took it upon myself.	是我自负的
56	I willed that law.	我将遵守法律
57	So, that's why, for Kant,	所以对康德来说
58	acting according to duty	根据职责行事
59	and acting freely, in the sense of autonomously,	在自主的意义上自由行动,
60	are one and the same.	都是一样的
61	But that raises the question,	但这引起了一个问题,
62	how many moral laws are there?	有多少道德法则?
63	Because if dignity consists	因为如果尊严包含
64	in being governed by a law	受法律管辖
65	that I give myself,	我给自己,
66	what's to guarantee	保证什么
67	that my conscience	♪ 我的良心♪
68	will be the same as your conscience?	和你的良心一样吗?
69	Who has Kant's answer to that?	谁有康德的答案?
70	Yes?	是吗?
71	Because a moral law,	因为道德法则
72	is not contingent upon subjective conditions,	不取决于主观条件,
73	it would transcend all particular differences	它会超越所有的区别
74	between people,	人与人之间,
75	and so would be a universal law.	也是个普遍的法律
76	And in this respect,	在这方面,
77	there would only be one moral law,	只有一条道德法则
78	because it would be supreme.	因为它将是至高无上的。
79	That's exactly right.	没错
80	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
81	Kelly.	凯莉
82	So, Kelly, Kant believes	凯莉,康德相信
83	that if we choose freely,	如果我们自由选择,
84	out of our own consciences,	出于我们的良心,
85	the moral law,	道德法则,
86	we're guaranteed to come up with	我们一定会想出
87	one and the same moral law.	同一道德法则
88	And that's because	因为...
89	when I choose,	当我选择,
90	it's not me, Michael Sandel,	这不是我,迈克尔·桑德尔,
91	choosing, it's not you, Kelly,	选择,不是你,凯莉,
92	choosing for yourself.	自己选择
93	What is it exactly?	这到底是什么?
94	Who's doing the choosing?	谁在做选择?
95	Who's the subject?	主题是谁?
96	Who's the agent?	谁的经纪人?
97	Who's doing the choosing?	谁在做选择?
98	Reason.	缘由.
99	Pure reason.	纯理故.
100	And what you mean by pure reason is what exactly?	你所说的纯粹的理由是什么?
101	Well, pure reason is,	嗯,纯粹的理由是,
102	like we were saying before,	就像我们之前说过的那样
103	not subject to any external	不受任何外部影响
104	conditions that may	可能的条件
105	be imposed on us.	强制我们。
106	Good.	不错
107	That's great.	赞曰.
108	So, the reason that does the willing,	所以,原因做自愿,
109	the reason that governs my will,	支配我意志的原因
110	when I will the moral law,	当我要道德法则
111	is the same reason	同样的原因
112	that operates when you choose	当您选择时运行
113	the moral law for yourself.	道德法律为你自己。
114	And that's why	这就是为什么
115	it's possible to act autonomously	可以自主行动
116	to choose for myself,	选择我自己,
117	for each of us to choose for ourselves,	我们每个人都为自己选择,
118	as autonomous beings,	作为自主的生物,
119	and for all of us to wind up	和我们所有人的结局
120	willing the same moral law.	愿意遵守同样的道德法律
121	The categorical imperative.	绝对必要。
122	But then there is one big	但有一个大
123	and very difficult question left.	还有很困难的问题
124	Even if you accept	即使你接受了
125	everything that Matt and Kelly	所有马特和凯莉的事
126	have said so far,	已经说过,到目前为止,
127	how is a categorical	如何是绝对的
128	imperative possible?	绝对可能?
129	How is morality possible?	道德怎么会这样?
130	To answer that question,	为了回答这个问题,
131	Kant says we need to make a distinction.	康德说我们需要区分一下
132	We need to make a distinction	我们要分辨一下
133	between	介于
134	two standpoints.	两个观点。
135	Two standpoints	两个观点
136	from which we	我们从其中
137	can make sense of	说得通
138	our experience.	我们的经验。
139	Let me try to explain what he means by these two	让我解释一下他俩的意思
140	two standpoints.	两个观点。
141	As an object of experience,	作为经验的对象,
142	I belong to the sensible world.	我属于理智的世界
143	There, my actions are determined	在那里,我的行动是坚定的
144	by the laws of nature,	根据自然法则,
145	and by the regularities of cause and effect.	和因果的规律。
146	But as a subject	但作为一个主题
147	of experience,	经验
148	I inhabit an intelligible	我住着一个聪明人
149	world.	这个世界
150	Here, being independent of the laws of	在这里,独立于法律
151	nature, I am capable of autonomy.	自然,我有能力自治。
152	Capable of acting	行为能力
153	according to a law I give myself.	根据我给自己的法律
154	Now Kant says that only	现在康德说
155	from this second	从此秒
156	standpoint can I regard myself	观点,我可以看待自己
157	as free, for to be independent	自由,独立
158	of determination by causes in the	根据《公约》第22条和
159	sensible world is	明智的世界是
160	to be free.	成为自由。
161	If I were wholly an empirical being,	如果我是一个完全的经验存在,
162	as the utilitarians	作为功利主义者
163	assume, if I were	假设,如果我是
164	a being wholly	一个完全
165	and only subject	且仅是主题
166	to the deliverances of my senses,	以我觉悟的解脱,
167	to pain and pleasure and hunger	痛苦、快乐和饥饿
168	and thirst and appetite, if that's all	口渴和胃口,如果是这样的话
169	there were to humanity,	人类有,
170	we wouldn't be capable of freedom,	我们不可能有自由
171	Kant reasons.	康德的理由。
172	Because in that case, every	因为在这种情况下,每个
173	exercise of will	行使意愿
174	would be conditioned by the desire	以欲望为条件
175	for some object.	对于某个物体。
176	In that case, all choice	这样的话,所有的选择
177	would be heteronomous choice,	这将是异端的选择,
178	governed by the pursuit of some	由追求某些
179	external end.	外边端.
180	When we think of ourselves as free,	当我们认为自己是自由的,
181	Kant writes, we	康德写道,我们
182	transfer ourselves into the	转身进入
183	intelligible world as members	知识世界作为成员
184	and recognize	并承认
185	the autonomy of the will.	意志的自主性。
186	That's the idea	就是这样
187	of the two standpoints.	两个观点。
188	So, how are categorical	那么,如何是绝对的
189	imperatives possible?	可能吗?
190	Only because	只是因为
191	the idea of freedom	自由思想
192	makes me a member of an	让我成为一个
193	intelligible world.	智识世界.
194	Now, Kant admits	现在,康德承认
195	we aren't only	我们不只是
196	rational beings,	理性的生物,
197	we don't only inhabit	我们不只住
198	the intelligible world,	知识世界,
199	the realm of freedom.	自由的范畴。
200	If we did,	如果是这样
201	if we did, then all of our	如果我们做到了,那么我们所有的
202	actions would	行动将
203	invariably accord	总是同意
204	with	与
205	the autonomy of the will.	意志的自主性。
206	But precisely because we inhabit	但正是因为我们住
207	simultaneously the two	二者同时
208	standpoints, the two realms,	观点,两个领域,
209	the realm of freedom and the realm	自由与世界
210	of necessity, precisely	危急情况
211	because we inhabit both	因为我们住在一起
212	realms, there is always	王国,总是有
213	potentially a gap	潜在差距
214	between what	之间什么
215	we do and what we	我们做什么,我们做什么
216	ought to do, between	之间
217	is and ought.	是,而且应该。
218	Another way of putting	另一种说法
219	this point, and this is the point	这一点,这就是重点
220	with which Kant concludes the	康德最后决定
221	groundwork, morality is	基础,道德是
222	not empirical.	不是经验
223	Whatever you see	无论你看到什么
224	in the world, whatever you discover	无论你发现什么
225	through science,	通过科学,
226	can't decide	不能决定
227	moral questions.	道德问题。
228	Morality stands at a certain	道德有一点
229	distance from the world,	远离世界,
230	from the empirical world.	从经验世界。
231	And that's why no science	这就是为什么没有科学
232	could deliver moral	能够带来道德
233	truth.	事实
234	Now, I want to test	现在,我想测试一下
235	Kant's moral theory	康德的道德理论
236	with the hardest possible case,	在最困难的情况下
237	a case that he raises,	他提出一个案件,
238	the case of the murderer	杀人犯的案子
239	at the door.	在门口。
240	Kant says that lying is wrong.	康德说撒谎是错误的
241	We all know that, we've discussed why.	我们都知道,我们讨论过为什么。
242	Lying is at odds	说谎是错的
243	with the categorical imperative.	绝对必要。
244	A French philosopher,	一位法国哲学家
245	Benjamin Constant,	本杰明・康斯坦特
246	wrote an article responding	写了一篇回应的文章
247	to the groundwork, where he	到基础,在那里他
248	said this absolute prohibition on lying	绝对禁止说谎
249	is wrong, it can't	错了,它不能
250	be right.	说对了
251	What if a	如果一个
252	murderer came to your door	杀人犯来了
253	looking for your friend	寻找你的朋友
254	who was hiding in your house,	他躲在你的房子里,
255	and the murderer asked you	凶手问你
256	point blank, is your friend	空白点,是你的朋友
257	in your house?	在你家里吗?
258	Constant	常数
259	says it would be crazy	说这太疯狂了
260	to say that the moral thing to do in	说道德的事情做在
261	that case is to tell the truth.	那个案子就是说实话
262	Constant says the	常说
263	murderer certainly doesn't	凶手当然不会
264	deserve the truth,	理应得到真相,
265	and Kant wrote a reply.	康德写了回信
266	And Kant stuck by his	康德被他缠住
267	principle that lying	说谎的原则
268	even to the murderer	甚至对凶手
269	at the door is wrong.	在门是错的。
270	And the reason it's wrong,	和原因它是错误的,
271	he said, is	他说,是
272	once you start taking consequences	一旦你开始承担后果
273	into account to	考虑
274	carve out exceptions to the categorical	规定断然例外
275	imperative, you've given up	你放弃了
276	the whole moral framework.	整个道德框架
277	You've become a consequentialist,	你成为了一个后果主义者,
278	or maybe a rule utilitarian.	或者是规则实用主义者
279	But most of you	但你们大多数人
280	and most of Kant's	和康德的大部分
281	readers think there's something	读者认为有东西
282	odd and implausible	奇怪又不可思议
283	about this answer.	关于这个答案。
284	I would	我会
285	like to try to defend	喜欢试图捍卫
286	Kant on this point.	康德说到这一点。
287	And then I want to see whether you	然后我想看看你有没有
288	think that my defense	认为我的辩护
289	is plausible.	说得没错
290	And I would want to defend him	我想为他辩护
291	within the spirit of his own	在自己的精神范围内
292	account of morality.	道德的考虑。
293	Imagine that someone	想象一个人
294	comes to your door.	来到你的门。
295	You were asked a question	有人问你
296	by this murderer.	由这个杀人犯。
297	You're hiding	你躲起来了
298	your friend.	你的朋友朋友朋友朋友朋友
299	Is there a	有没有一个
300	way that you could	你这样可以
301	avoid telling a	避免告诉一个
302	lie without	说谎
303	selling out your friend?	出卖你的朋友?
304	Does anyone have an idea of	有没有人知道
305	how you might be able to do that?	你怎么可以做到这一点?
306	Yes.	对
307	Stand up.	站起来
308	I was just going to say if I were	我只是想说,如果我
309	to let my friend in my	让我的朋友在我的
310	house to hide in the first place,	房子隐藏在第一,
311	I'd probably make a plan with them.	我可能会和他们一起计划
312	So I'd be like, hey, I'll tell	所以我会说,嘿,我会说
313	the murderer you're here, but escape.	你在这里的凶手,但逃跑。
314	And that's	这是
315	one of the options mentioned.	其中一个选项
316	But I'm not sure that's a Kantian	但我不肯定那是个康德
317	option.	选项。
318	You're	琌
319	like, because he's in the house, but	喜欢,因为他在房子里,但
320	he won't be.	他不会的
321	Oh, I see.	原来如此
322	All right.	好吧,我们走。
323	Good enough.	够好了
324	One more try.	再试一次
325	If you just	如果你刚刚
326	say you don't know where he is because	说你不知道他在哪里因为
327	he might not be locked in the closet,	他可能不会被锁在衣柜里
328	he might have left the closet.	他可能离开了衣柜。
329	You have no clue where he could be.	你根本不知道他会在哪
330	So	这么说
331	you would say I don't know, which wouldn't	你会说我不知道, 这不会
332	actually be a lie because	其实是谎言因为
333	you weren't at that very	你没有在那个非常
334	moment looking in the closet.	看着壁橱里
335	Exactly.	没错
336	So it would be strictly	所以,这将是严格的
337	speaking true.	说真的
338	Yes.	对
339	And yet possibly	不过可能
340	deceiving, misleading.	欺骗,误导。
341	But still true.	但还是真实的。
342	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
343	John.	约翰
344	All right.	好吧,我们走。
345	John has	约翰有
346	now John may be on to something.	现在约翰可能有事
347	John, you're really offering us	约翰,你真的给我们
348	the option of a clever	聪明的选择
349	evasion that is	逃避,这是
350	strictly speaking true.	严格地说,是的。
351	This raises the question,	这引起了一个问题,
352	whether there is a moral	是否有道德
353	difference between	差异间
354	an outright lie	谎言
355	and a misleading	和误导者,
356	truth.	事实
357	From Kant's	从康德那里
358	point of view, there actually	观点,实际上
359	is a world	是一个世界
360	of difference between	差额
361	a lie	谎言
362	and a misleading truth.	和错误的真理。
363	Why is that?	为什么?
364	Even though	虽然
365	both might have the same consequences.	两者都可能产生同样的后果。
366	But then remember,	但是,然后记住,
367	Kant doesn't base	康德没有基地
368	morality on consequences.	道德对后果的影响。
369	He bases it on formal	他以形式为基础
370	adherence to the moral	遵守道德准则
371	law.	诸法.
372	Now sometimes in ordinary	现在,有时是普通的
373	life we make	我们的生活
374	exceptions for the general rule	一般规则的例外情况
375	against lying with a white	以白衣盟誓,
376	lie.	说谎
377	What is a white lie?	什么是白话?
378	It's a lie to make, well	这是骗人的,好吧
379	to avoid hurting someone's feelings	避免伤害别人的感情
380	for example.	举个例子
381	It's a lie	说谎
382	that we think of as justified by the	我们认为,
383	consequences.	后果。
384	Now Kant could not	现在康德不能了
385	endorse a white lie,	承认一个谎言,
386	but perhaps he could endorse	但也许他可以认可
387	a misleading truth.	一个误导性的事实。
388	Suppose someone gives you a tie	如果有人给你打领带
389	as a gift, and	作为礼物,和
390	you open the box, and	你打开盒子,和
391	it's just awful.	这太可怕了。
392	What do you say?	你说什么?
393	Thank you.	谢谢
394	You could say thank you.	你可以说谢谢你。
395	But they're waiting to see what you think of it.	但他们等着看你的看法
396	Or they ask you, what do you think	或者他们问你你觉得呢?
397	of it?	是吗?
398	You could tell a white lie and	你可以说白话
399	say, it's beautiful.	说,这是美丽的。
400	But that wouldn't be	但不会
401	permissible from Kant's point of view.	康德认为是允许的
402	Could you say	你能说
403	not a white lie, but a misleading	不是白话,而是误导
404	truth?	事实?
405	You open the box	你打开盒子
406	and you say, I've never	你说,我从来没有
407	seen a tie like that before.	之前见过这样的领带
408	Thank you.	谢谢
409	You shouldn't have.	你不该这样
410	That's good.	这是很好的。
411	Can you think of	你能想到吗?
412	a contemporary political	当代政治
413	leader who engaged	已订婚的领导人
414	you can?	你能吗?
415	Who are you thinking of?	你在想谁?
416	Remember the whole	记住整个
417	carefully worded denials	仔细的文字否定
418	in the Monica Lewinsky	在莫妮卡莱温斯基
419	affair of Bill Clinton?	比尔·克林顿的事?
420	Now, those	现在,这些
421	denials actually became	否认实际上变成了
422	the subject of very	主题非常
423	explicit debate and argument	明确的辩论和论点
424	during the impeachment	在弹劾期间
425	hearings.	听证会。
426	Take a look	看一看,看一看
427	at the following	在以下各节
428	excerpts from Bill Clinton.	比尔·克林顿的摘录.
429	Is there something, do you think,	有没有什么,你觉得,
430	morally at stake in the distinction	在道德上与区别有关
431	between	介于
432	a lie and	谎言和
433	a misleading,	一个误导者,
434	carefully couched truth?	仔细的讲真话?
435	I want to say one thing	我想说一件事
436	to the American people.	对美国人民。
437	I want you to listen to me.	我要你听我说
438	I'm going to say this	我要说这个
439	again.	再来
440	I did not	我没有
441	have sexual	做爱
442	relations with that woman,	和那个女人的关系
443	Ms. Lewinsky.	莱温斯基女士
444	I never	我从来没有
445	told anybody it's a lie, not	告诉别人这是谎言,不是
446	a single time, never.	一次,从来没有。
447	These allegations are false.	这些指控是虚假的。
448	Did he lie	他说谎吗?
449	to the American people when he	给美国人民
450	said, I never had sex with that	说,我从来没有做爱
451	woman?	女人吗?
452	You know, he	你知道吗,他
453	doesn't believe he did, and because	不相信他这样做,因为
454	of the... Let me explain, may I explain,	那个... 让我解释一下,请允许我解释,
455	Congressman?	议员?
456	What he said was	他说的
457	to the American people that he did not have	对于美国人民他没有
458	sexual relations.	性关系。
459	And I understand you're not going to like	我知道你不会喜欢的
460	this, Congressman, because you will see it	这个,议员,因为你会看到它
461	as a hair-splitting, evasive	是一种分毛, 避风头
462	answer.	答问.
463	But in his own mind,	但在他自己的想法中,
464	his definition was not	他的定义不是
465	Okay, I understand that argument.	好吧,我理解这个论点。
466	Okay.	摆
467	So there you have	原来如此
468	the exchange.	交换。
469	Now, at the time,	现在,当时,
470	you may have thought	你可能认为
471	this was just a legalistic,	这只是个法律主义的,
472	hair-splitting exchange between a	a/ 换发
473	Republican who wanted to impeach	想弹劾的共和党人
474	Clinton and a lawyer who was trying to	克林顿和一个律师试图
475	defend him.	保护他
476	But now,	但现在
477	in the light of Kant,	鉴于康德
478	do you think there	你觉得那里
479	is something morally	是道德上的东西
480	at stake in the distinction	与区别利害攸关
481	between a	a 之间
482	lie and	谎言和
483	an evasion, a true	一个逃避,一个真理
484	but misleading statement?	却作误导性陈述?
485	I'd like to hear from	我想听一个
486	defenders of	人权维护者
487	Kant, people who think there is a distinction.	康德,认为有区别的人。
488	Are you ready to	你准备好
489	defend Kant?	保护康德?
490	Well, I think	我觉得
491	when you try to say that lying and misleading	当你试图说谎言和误导
492	truths are the same thing, you're basing	事实是一回事,你在打基础
493	it on a consequentialist argument, which is	以结果论论论,即
494	that they achieve the same thing.	{\fn华文楷体\fs16\1cHE0E0E0}他们实现同样的目标
495	But the fact of the matter is, you told the	但事实是,你告诉
496	truth, and you intended that people would believe	真相,你打算人们相信
497	what you were saying, which was the truth,	你说的,这是事实,
498	which means it is not morally the same as telling	也就是说,这在道德上和说
499	a lie and intending that they believe	他们妄言,而且妄言,
500	it is the truth, even though it's not true.	这是事实,尽管它不是真的。
501	Good.	不错
502	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
503	Diana.	戴安娜戴安娜戴安娜
504	So Diana says that	所以戴安娜说
505	Kant has a point here.	康德说得有道理
506	And it's a point that might even come to	这一点,甚至可能会出现
507	the aid of Bill Clinton.	比尔·克林顿的援助。
508	And that is,	也就是说,
509	well, what about that?	那怎么样?
510	Someone	有人吗?
511	over here.	在这里。
512	For Kant, motivation	对康德来说,动机
513	is key.	关键。
514	So if you	所以,如果你
515	give to someone because primarily	给别人是因为
516	you want to feel good about yourself, Kant would say that has no moral	康德会说那没有道德
517	worth.	值钱
518	Well, with this, the motivation	有了这个动机
519	is the same.	一样
520	It's to sort of mislead someone.	这是一种误导某人。
521	It's to lie.	是为虚妄.
522	It's to sort of throw them off	是用来甩掉他们
523	the track.	赛道。
524	And the motivation is the same.	动机是一样的
525	So	这么说
526	there should be no difference.	不应该有区别。
527	Okay, good.	好吧,不错。
528	So here, isn't the motive	所以,在这里,不是动机
529	the same, Diana?	同样,戴安娜?
530	What do you say to this argument that	你对这个论点怎么说?
531	well, the motive is the same.	动机是一样的
532	In both	两者
533	cases, there is the attempt, or at least	案件,有企图,或至少
534	the hope, that	希望,那个
535	one's pursuer will be misled.	追逐者会被误导
536	Well, that	那个
537	I think that the fact is that	我认为事实是
538	your immediate motive is that they should believe	你的直接动机是他们应该相信
539	you.	你们
540	The ultimate consequence of that	最终后果
541	is that they might be deceived and not find out	可能是他们被欺骗了却不知道
542	what was going on.	发生什么事了?
543	But your immediate	但你现在
544	motive is that they should believe you	动机是他们会相信你
545	because you're telling the truth.	因为你说的是实话
546	May I help a little?	我能帮忙吗?
547	Sure.	当然
548	You and	你还有
549	Kant.	康德(原变种).
550	Why don't you say	你为什么不说
551	and what's your name?	还有你叫什么名字?
552	I'm sorry.	对不起
553	Why don't you say to Wesley	你为什么不对卫斯理说
554	it's not exactly	不是那样的
555	the case that the motive in	案件动机
556	both cases is	两个案子都是
557	to mislead.	要误导。
558	They're hoping, they're hoping	他们希望,他们希望
559	that the person will be misled	被误导的人
560	by the statement, I don't	根据声明,我不
561	know where they are, or	知道他们在哪里,或
562	I never had sexual	我从来没有性爱
563	relations.	关系
564	You're hoping that they will be	你希望他们会是
565	misled, but in the	被误导,但在
566	case where you're telling the truth,	如果你说的是实话
567	your motive is to	你的动机是
568	mislead while at the same time	同时误导
569	telling the truth and honoring	说出真相和荣誉
570	the moral law and staying within the bounds	道德法则和不超出范围
571	of the categorical imperative.	绝对必要。
572	I think	我觉得
573	what do you think Kant's answer would be?	你觉得康德的答案是什么?
574	Diana, yes?	戴安娜,是吗?
575	You like that?	你喜欢吗?
576	Okay, so	好吧,这样吧
577	I think Kant's answer would be	我认为康德的答案是
578	unlike a falsehood,	不像一个谎言,
579	unlike a lie,	不像一个谎言,
580	a misleading truth pays a	误导性事实可以
581	certain homage to	向各位致以敬意
582	duty.	职责。
583	And the homage it	敬礼
584	pays to duty is what	报到就是
585	justifies that the work of	说明:
586	even the work of evasion.	甚至是逃避
587	Diana, yes?	戴安娜,是吗?
588	Okay, and so	好吧,这样
589	there is something,	有东西,
590	some element of respect	某些尊重因素
591	for the dignity	维护人的尊严
592	of the moral law	道德法原则
593	in the careful evasion	在谨慎的逃避中,
594	because Clinton could have told	因为克林顿可以告诉
595	an outright lie, but he didn't.	但他没有
596	And so I think Kant's	所以我认为康德
597	Kant's insight here is	康德的见解是
598	in the carefully	在仔细的
599	couched but true evasion	躺着但真的逃避
600	there is a kind	有种东西
601	of homage to the dignity of the moral law	尊重道德法的尊严
602	that is not present	不存在
603	in the outright lie.	在直截了当的谎言。
604	And that,	还有
605	Wesley,	卫斯理,
606	is part of the motive.	是动机的一部分。
607	It's part of the motive.	这是动机的一部分。
608	Yes,	对
609	I hope he will be misled.	我希望他会被误导。
610	I hope the murderer	我希望凶手能来
611	will run down the road or	会跑在路上,或者
612	go to the mall looking for my friend instead	去商场找我的朋友
613	of the closet.	在衣橱。
614	I hope that	我希望这样
615	will be the effect.	将是效果。
616	I can't control	我无法控制
617	that.	那个
618	I can't control	我无法控制
619	the consequences.	后果。
620	But what	但怎样
621	I can control	我能控制着
622	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}就站在一边恭敬地
623	however I pursue the	不过,我追求
624	trends I hope will unfold	我希望会有所发展
625	to do so in a way	以某种方式这样做
626	that is consistent with	符合
627	respect for the moral	对道德的尊重
628	law.	诸法.
629	Wesley, I don't	卫斯理,我没有
630	think is entirely persuaded.	认为是完全说服。
631	But at least this brings out,	但至少这能带来
632	this discussion brings out	这场讨论带来了
633	some of what's at stake, what's morally	有一些关系,什么道德
634	at stake in Kant's notion	在康德的观念中处于危险之中
635	of the categorical imperative.	绝对必要。
636	As long as any	只要有时间
637	effort is involved, I would	我将付出很多努力
638	say that the contract is	说合同是
639	valid and it should	有效,而且应当
640	take effect.	生效。
641	But why?	为什么?
642	What was, what morally can you point	是什么,什么道德你可以指出
643	to?	给?
644	For example, two people	比如说两个人
645	agree to be married and one	同意结婚和结婚
646	suddenly calls the other in two minutes say,	两分钟后突然打电话给另一个说
647	I changed my mind.	我改变主意了
648	Does the	这是否
649	contract have obligation on	合同义务
650	both sides?	两边?
651	Well, I'm	и琌
652	tempted to say no.	试图说不。
653	Fine.	还好
654	Last time we talked about Kant's categorical	上次我们讨论康德的绝对性
655	imperative	紧急事项
656	and we considered the way he applied	我们考虑了他的申请方式
657	the idea of the categorical imperative	绝对必要的想法
658	to the case of lying.	至於说谎,
659	I want to turn briefly to	我想简单谈谈
660	one other application	其他应用程序
661	of Kant's moral theory and that's	康德的道德理论
662	his political theory.	他的政治理论。
663	Now, Kant says	现在康德说
664	that just laws	仅仅法律
665	arise from a certain	由某种
666	kind of social contract.	一种社会契约。
667	But this contract, he tells us,	但这份合同,他告诉我们,
668	is of an exceptional	是个例外
669	nature.	性质。
670	What makes	为什么
671	the contract exceptional	合同例外
672	is that it's	这是
673	not an actual contract	非实际合同
674	that happens	发生的事情
675	when people come together	当人们走到一起
676	and try to figure out what	试着找出什么
677	the Constitution should be.	宪法应该如此。
678	Kant points out that	康德说
679	the contract	合同
680	that generates justice	产生正义的
681	is what he calls	他是这么叫的
682	an idea of reason.	一个理性的想法。
683	It's not an actual contract	这不是真正的合同
684	among actual men and women	实际男女人数
685	gathered in a constitutional convention.	在一个宪法大会上聚集。
686	Why not?	为什么不呢?
687	I think Kant's reason is	我觉得康德的理由是
688	that actual men and women gathered in a real	真正的男人和女人聚集在一个真正的
689	constitutional convention	宪法会议
690	would have different interests, values,	会有不同的利益,价值,
691	aims, and there would also be	目标,还有
692	differences of bargaining power	谈判能力的差异
693	and differences of knowledge among them.	和他们之间知识的差别。
694	And so, the laws	所以,法律,我们
695	that would result from their deliberations	讨论的结果
696	wouldn't necessarily	不一定会
697	be just, wouldn't necessarily	正义, 不一定
698	conform to principles of	符合下列原则:
699	right, but would simply	没错,但只是
700	reflect the differences	反映差异
701	of bargaining power, the special	谈判能力,特别
702	interests, the fact that some might	利益,有些人可能
703	know more than others	比别人更了解
704	about law or about politics.	关于法律或政治
705	So Kant says	所以康德说
706	a contract that generates	生成合同
707	principles of	原则
708	right is merely	权利只是
709	an idea of reason, but	一个理性的想法,但
710	it has undoubted practical	这无疑是实用的
711	reality because it can	因为它可以
712	oblige every legislator to	要求每个立法者
713	frame his laws in such a way that they	以这样的方式制定他的法律
714	could have been produced by the united	本来可以由联合军
715	will of the whole nation.	整个国家的意志。
716	So Kant is a contractarian,	所以康德是个契约主义者
717	but he doesn't	但他没有
718	trace the origin	追踪来源
719	or the rightness of law	或法律的正确性
720	to any actual	到任何实际
721	social contract.	社会契约。
722	This gives rise to an obvious question.	这引起了一个显而易见的问题。
723	What is the moral force	什么样的道德力量
724	of a hypothetical	假设
725	contract, a contract that	合同,一个合同
726	never happened?	没发生过吗?
727	That's the question we take up today.	这就是我们今天要处理的问题。
728	But in order to investigate it,	但为了调查
729	we need to turn to	我们需要转向
730	a modern philosopher, John	现代哲学家约翰
731	Rawls, who worked out	劳尔斯,谁工作
732	in his book A Theory of Justice	在他的著作《正义理论》中
733	in great detail	十分详细
734	an account of a hypothetical	假设的叙述
735	agreement as	协议为
736	the basis for justice.	正义的基础。
737	Rawls' theory of justice	罗尔斯的正义理论
738	in broad outline	大纲
739	is parallel to Kant's in	和康德在一块
740	two important respects.	两个重要的方面。
741	Like Kant,	像康德一样,
742	Rawls	罗尔斯
743	was a critic of utilitarianism.	曾批评功利主义.
744	Each person	每个人
745	possesses an inviolability	拥有不可侵犯性
746	Rawls写道:
747	that even the welfare of society	甚至是社会福利
748	as a whole cannot override.	整体上无法推翻。
749	The rights secured by justice	司法保障的权利
750	are not subject to political	不受政治影响
751	bargaining or to the calculus	讨价还价或计算
752	of social interests.	社会利益。
753	The second respect	第二条尊重
754	in which Rawls's theory	罗尔斯的理论
755	follows	如下
756	Kant's,	康德康德康德康德
757	is on the idea that	考虑的是
758	principles of justice	司法原则
759	properly understood	正确理解
760	can be derived from a hypothetical	可以从假设中得出
761	social contract,	社会契约;
762	not an actual one.	不是真实的
763	And Rawls works this out	Rawls解决了这个问题
764	in fascinating detail	以迷人的细节
765	with the device	带设备
766	of what he calls	他所喊的,
767	the veil of ignorance.	无知的面纱。
768	The way to arrive	到达的路
769	at the rights,	在权利,
770	the basic rights	基本权利
771	that we must respect,	我们必须尊重,
772	the basic framework of rights and duties,	权利和义务的基本框架,
773	is to imagine	来想象一下
774	that we were gathered together	我们聚集在一起
775	trying to choose	尝试选择
776	the principles to govern our collective lives	指导我们集体生活的原则
777	without knowing	不知不觉
778	certain important	某些重要的东西
779	particular facts	特定事实
780	about ourselves.	关于我们自己。
781	That's the idea of the veil of ignorance.	这就是无知面纱的想法.
782	Now what would happen if we	现在,如果我们
783	gathered together	集合起来
784	just as we are here	就像我们在这里一样
785	and tried to come up with	并试图想出
786	principles of justice to govern our collective life?	指导我们集体生活的公正原则?
787	There would be a cacophony	会有恶作剧
788	of proposals, of suggestions	审议各项提案、提案和建议
789	reflecting people's different	反映人的不同
790	interests.	权益。
791	Some are strong, some are weak.	有强有弱.
792	Some are rich, some are poor.	有的有钱,有的穷.
793	So Rawls says,	所以罗尔斯说,
794	imagine instead	想象着
795	that we are gathered in an original	我们被集合在原始的,
796	position of equality.	平等的地位。
797	And what assures	和什么保证
798	the equality	平等
799	is the veil of ignorance.	是无知的面纱。
800	Imagine that we are all behind	想象一下,我们都落后
801	the veil of ignorance which temporarily	暂时无知的面纱
802	abstracts from	摘自:
803	or brackets, hides from us	或括号,躲我们
804	who in particular we are.	尤其是我们是谁
805	Our race, our class,	我们的种族,我们的阶级,
806	our place in society,	我们社会的地位,
807	our strengths, our weaknesses,	我们的优势,我们的弱点,
808	whether we're healthy or unhealthy.	不管是健康还是不健康
809	Then,	接下来
810	and only then,	只有这样,
811	Rawls says, the principles	罗尔斯说,原则
812	we would agree to would be principles	我们同意原则
813	of justice.	正义。
814	That's how the hypothetical contract	假设合同就是这样
815	works.	工作时
816	What is the moral force	什么样的道德力量
817	of this kind of hypothetical	这种假设
818	agreement?	同意吗?
819	Is it stronger or weaker than a real agreement?	它比真正的协议更强大还是更弱?
820	An actual social	一个真正的社交
821	contract.	合同。
822	In order to answer that question,	为了回答这个问题,
823	we have to look hard	我们要好好看看
824	at the moral force	在道德的力量
825	of actual contracts.	实际合同。
826	There are really two questions here.	这里真的有两个问题。
827	One of them is,	其中一个是,
828	how do actual contracts	实际合同如何
829	bind me	绑住我
830	or obligate me?	还是强迫我?
831	Question number one.	问曰.
832	And question number two, how do actual	第二问题,如何实际
833	real life contracts	实际生活合同
834	justify the terms that they produce?	证明他们生产的条件是合理的吗?
835	If you think about it,	如果你考虑一下
836	this is in line with	这符合
837	Rawls and Kant,	罗尔斯和康德
838	the answer to the second question,	对第二个问题的回答,
839	how do actual contracts justify	实际合同如何证明
840	the terms that they produce?	他们生产的条件?
841	The answer is, they don't.	答案是,他们没有。
842	At least not on their own.	至少不是靠他们自己
843	Actual contracts are not	实际合同不是
844	self-sufficient moral instruments.	自我满足的道德工具。
845	Of any actual	任何实际
846	contract or agreement,	合同或协议,
847	it can always be asked,	它总是可以问,
848	is it fair	公平吗?
849	what they agreed to?	他们同意什么?
850	The fact of the agreement never guarantees	协议的事实从来不保证
851	the fairness of the agreement.	协议的公正性。
852	And we know this by	我们知道这一点
853	looking at our own constitutional convention.	看看我们的宪法会议
854	It produced a constitution	它产生了一部宪法
855	that permitted slavery	允许奴役
856	to persist.	坚持下去。
857	It was agreed to.	经同意。
858	It was an actual contract.	这是一个实际的合同。
859	But that doesn't establish	但这不能证明
860	that the laws agreed to,	法律同意,
861	all of them, were just.	他们都只是...
862	Well then, what is the moral force	那么,什么是道德力量
863	of actual contracts?	实际合同?
864	To the extent that they bind us,	只要它们能束缚我们
865	they obligate in two ways.	他们以两种方式承担义务。
866	Suppose, maybe here it would help	假设,也许在这里会有所帮助
867	to take an example.	举个例子。
868	We make an agreement,	我们达成协议,
869	a commercial agreement.	商业协议。
870	I promise to pay you a hundred dollars	我答应你一百块
871	if you will go	如果你愿意去的话
872	harvest and bring to me	收割,带给我
873	a hundred lobsters.	一百只龙虾
874	We make a deal.	我们做个交易
875	You go out and harvest them	你出去收割他们
876	and bring them to me.	把它们带给我
877	I eat the lobsters, serve them to my friends,	我吃龙虾,为我的朋友服务,
878	and then I don't pay.	然后我不付钱。
879	And you say, but you're obligated.	你说,但你有义务。
880	And I say, why?	我说,为什么?
881	What do you say?	你说什么?
882	Well, we had a deal.	我们说好的
883	And you benefited.	你从中获益了
884	You ate all those lobsters.	你吃了所有的龙虾。
885	Well, that's a pretty strong	嗯,这是一个相当强大的
886	argument.	参数。
887	It's an argument that depends, though,	不过,这是个争论
888	on the fact that I benefited	关于我受益的事实
889	from your labor.	从你的劳动。
890	So, contracts	所以,合同
891	sometimes bind us	有时会束缚我们
892	insofar as they	就他们而言
893	are instruments	是乐器
894	of mutual benefit.	互惠互利。
895	I ate the lobsters, I owe you the hundred	我吃了龙虾,欠你一百块
896	dollars for having gathered them.	收了他们的钱
897	But suppose, now take a second	但是,假设,现在用一秒钟
898	case, we make this deal.	我们做个交易
899	I'll pay you a hundred dollars for a	我付你一百块
900	hundred lobsters.	百条龙虾.
901	And two	还有两个
902	minutes later, before you've gone	几分钟后,在你离开之前
903	to any work, I call you back	任何工作,我给你回电话
904	and say I've changed my mind.	说我改变主意了
905	Now, there's no benefit.	现在,没有好处。
906	There's no work on your part.	没有你的工作。
907	So, there's no element	所以,没有元素
908	of reciprocal exchange.	相互交换。
909	What about in that case?	那样怎么样?
910	Do I still	我还在吗?
911	owe you?	欠你钱?
912	Merely in virtue	仅凭美德
913	of the fact that we had an agreement?	我们有协议的事实?
914	Who says, those of you who	谁说,你们谁
915	say yes, I still owe you?	答应我,我还欠你?
916	Why?	为什么?
917	Okay, stand up.	好吧,站起来。
918	Why do I owe you?	为什么我欠你?
919	I call	我打电话
920	you back.	你回来。
921	After two minutes, you	两分钟后,你
922	haven't done any work.	没有做任何工作。
923	I think I spent a time and effort	我想我花了很多时间和精力
924	in drafting this contract	起草本合同
925	with you.	和你们一起
926	And also I have emotional	我还有情感
927	expectation that I'll go through	期待我会经历
928	the work.	这工作。
929	So, you took time	所以,你花时间
930	to draft the contract, but we did it very	起草合同,但我们做了非常
931	quickly.	快点
932	We just chatted on the phone.	我们刚在电话里聊天
933	That wouldn't be a formal form	那不会是正式的形式
934	of contract, though.	合同,虽然。
935	Well, I faxed it	我传真了
936	to you.	给你的。
937	It only took a minute.	只需要一分钟
938	As long as any effort	只要尽力
939	is involved, I would	牵扯进来,我会
940	say that the contract is	说合同是
941	valid and it	有效且其内容
942	should take effect.	应该生效。
943	But why?	为什么?
944	What morally can you	你在道德上还能做什么?
945	point to that obligates	指出这项义务
946	me?	我吗?
947	I admit that I	我承认我
948	agreed, but you didn't go	答应了,但你没去
949	to any work.	给任何工作。
950	I didn't	我没有
951	enjoy any benefit.	享受任何好处。
952	Because	因为
953	one might mentally go through all the work	一个人可能会经过所有的工作
954	of harvesting the lobsters.	捕捉龙虾。
955	You mentally went through the work	你的精神经过了工作
956	of harvesting the lobsters.	捕捉龙虾。
957	That's nothing, is it?	没什么,是吗?
958	It's not much.	亦无甚处.
959	Is it worth a hundred	值一百块吗?
960	dollars that you were imagining yourself	你想象中的美元
961	going and collecting up?	去收集吗?
962	It may not worth a hundred dollars, but	也许不值100美元,但
963	it may worth something to some people.	这对有些人来说是值得的
964	Alright, I'll give you a buck for it.	好吧,我给你一块钱。
965	For that.	为了这个
966	So, you're still	所以,你还是
967	pointing, what's interesting, you're still pointing	指点,有意思的是,你还在指点
968	to the reciprocal dimension	对等层面
969	of contracts.	合同的终止。
970	You did	没错
971	or imagined that you did or looked forward	或想象你曾经或期待
972	to doing something on my behalf.	代表我做点什么
973	For example, two people agreed to be married	例如,两个人同意结婚
974	and one suddenly calls the other in two	一个突然呼唤另一个
975	minutes say, I changed my mind.	几分钟后我改变主意了
976	Does	对
977	the contract have obligation	合同有义务
978	on both sides?	在两边?
979	Nobody has paid	没有人付钱
980	any work or nobody has	任何工作或没有人
981	benefited yet.	已经受益了
982	Well, I'm tempted to say no.	我很想说不
983	Fine.	还好
984	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
985	- 朱利安 - 朱利安 - Julian.
986	Thank you, Julian.	谢谢你,朱利安。
987	Alright, that was good.	好吧,这是很好的。
988	Now, is	现在,是
989	there anyone who has,	有谁,
990	who agrees with Julian that I still	谁同意朱利安我仍然
991	owe the money?	欠钱?
992	For any other reason now, I have	因为任何其他原因,我现在有
993	go ahead, stand up.	来吧,站起来。
994	I think if you back out	我想如果你退后的话
995	it sort of cheapens the institution of contracts.	它会降低合同的金额
996	Good, but why?	很好,但为什么?
997	Why does it?	为什么?
998	Well, I think this is kind of Kantian, but there's	嗯,我想这是一种康德,但有
999	almost, there's a certain intrinsic value	差不多有内在价值
1000	in being able to make contracts	能够签订合同
1001	and having, you know, knowing that people will	并且,你知道,知道人们会
1002	expect that you'll go through with that.	期待你会通过。
1003	Good, there is some,	好,还有一些
1004	it would cheapen the whole	它会降低整个
1005	idea of contracts, which has to	合同的概念,必须
1006	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}因为我承担了义务
1007	Is that	这是
1008	the idea?	这个主意?
1009	Yeah, I think so.	是的,我想是这样。
1010	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
1011	Adam.	亚当
1012	So Adam points instead, not	所以,亚当的指针,而不是
1013	to any reciprocal benefit	对等利益
1014	or mutual	或相互间
1015	exchange, but to the	交换,但
1016	mere fact of the agreement itself.	仅仅是协议本身的事实。
1017	We see here there are really	我们看到这里真的有
1018	two different ways in which	两种不同的方式
1019	actual contracts	实际合同
1020	generate obligations.	产生债务。
1021	One has to	一个人必须
1022	do with the act of consent	同意行为
1023	as a voluntary act.	作为自愿行为。
1024	And it points, Adam said	它指出,亚当说
1025	this was a Kantian idea	这是康德的主意
1026	and I think he's right, because it	我觉得他是对的,因为...
1027	points to the ideal of autonomy.	指出自主的理想。
1028	When I make a contract,	当我做一个合同,
1029	the obligation is one that is	义务是:
1030	self-imposed.	自我强加。
1031	And that carries a certain moral weight	这具有一定的道德价值
1032	independent of other considerations.	不论其他考虑。
1033	And then there's a second	还有一秒钟
1034	element of the moral	道德因素
1035	force of contract arguments.	(b) 合同论据的效力。
1036	Which has to do with the sense	这和感觉有关
1037	in which actual contracts	实际合同
1038	are instruments of mutual benefit	是互利的工具;
1039	and this	还有这个
1040	points toward the ideal of reciprocity.	指向对等的理想。
1041	That obligation	这一义务
1042	can arise,	可能发生,
1043	I can have an obligation to you	我可以对你承担义务
1044	in so far as	就目前而言
1045	you do something	你做点什么
1046	for me.	对我来说。
1047	Now, we're investigating	现在,我们正在调查
1048	the moral force and also	道德力量,以及
1049	the moral limits	道德限制
1050	of actual contracts.	实际合同。
1051	And here	还有这里
1052	I would like to advance an argument	我想提出一个论点
1053	about the moral limits	关于道德限制
1054	of actual contracts.	实际合同。
1055	Now that we know	现在我们知道了
1056	what moral	什么样的道德
1057	ingredients do the work when people	做人的时候,做人做人
1058	come together and say, I will do this	一起来说,我会的
1059	if you do that.	如果你这样做。
1060	I would like to argue first	我想先说
1061	that the fact that two people agree	两人同意的事实
1062	to some exchange does not	切换到某些交换
1063	mean that the terms	意味着这些术语
1064	of their agreement are fair.	他们的协议是公平的。
1065	When my	当我
1066	two sons were young, they collected	两个儿子还年轻,他们收集
1067	baseball cards and traded them.	棒球卡和交易。
1068	And one was	一个是
1069	there was a two year age, there is a two year	两岁,两岁
1070	age difference between them.	他们之间的年龄差异。
1071	And so I had to institute	所以我必须建立
1072	a rule about	关于
1073	the trades that	交易
1074	no trade was	没有交易
1075	complete until I had approved it.	直到我批准它为止
1076	And the reason is obvious.	而其理显.
1077	The older one	旧的
1078	knew more about the value of these	更了解这些价值
1079	cards and so	纸牌等
1080	would take advantage of the	将利用
1081	younger one.	年轻的
1082	So that's why	所以,这就是为什么
1083	I had to review it to make sure that the	我不得不审查它,以确保
1084	agreement, that the agreements	协议,协议
1085	were fair.	这很公平
1086	Now you may say, well this is	现在你可以说,这是
1087	paternalism.	家长制。
1088	Of course it was.	当然了
1089	That's what paternalism	这就是家长制
1090	is for, that kind of	就是因为,那种
1091	thing.	东西。
1092	So what does this	这算什么?
1093	show?	显示?
1094	What does the baseball card example show?	棒球卡的例子显示什么?
1095	The fact of an agreement	协议的事实
1096	is not sufficient to establish	不足以确定
1097	the fairness of the terms.	条件的公正性。
1098	I read some years ago of a	我几年前读到的
1099	case in Chicago.	芝加哥的个案。
1100	There was an elderly	有一个老人
1101	widow, an 84 year old	寡妇,84岁
1102	widow named Rose	寡妇叫玫瑰
1103	who had a problem	谁有问题
1104	in her apartment with a leaky toilet.	在她的公寓里,有一个漏水的厕所。
1105	And she	还有她
1106	signed a contract	签订合同
1107	with an unscrupulous contractor	和一个不道德的承包商
1108	who	谁
1109	offered to repair her leaky	主动提出修补她的漏洞
1110	toilet in exchange for 50	以厕所换取50
1111	thousand dollars.	一千块
1112	But she	不过她
1113	had agreed, she was of sound	她同意了,她很健全
1114	mind, maybe terribly naive	头脑,也许非常天真
1115	and unfamiliar with the price of plumbing.	而且不熟悉管道的价格。
1116	She had made this	她做的这个
1117	agreement.	协议。
1118	Luckily	幸运的是
1119	it was discovered, she went to the bank	发现她去了银行
1120	and asked to	并要求
1121	withdraw 25 thousand dollars.	收回两万五
1122	And the teller said, what do you need	出纳员说你需要什么
1123	all of that money for?	这些钱都是为了什么?
1124	And she said, well I have a leaky toilet.	她说,我有一个漏水的厕所。
1125	And the teller called authorities and they	计票员打电话给当局,他们
1126	discovered this unscrupulous contractor.	发现了这个肆无忌惮的承包商
1127	Now	现在
1128	I suspect that even the most	我怀疑这甚至最
1129	ardent contractarians	热合同工
1130	in the room will agree	在房间里会同意的
1131	that the	该
1132	fact of this woman's agreement	这个女人同意的事实
1133	is	这是
1134	not a sufficient condition	条件不够充分
1135	of the agreement being fair.	协议是公平的。
1136	Is there anyone who will	有谁愿意
1137	dispute that?	质疑这个?
1138	No one.	没有人。
1139	Am I missing anyone?	我想念谁了吗?
1140	Alex, where are you?	亚历克斯,你在哪里?
1141	So	这么说
1142	maybe there's no dispute then to my first	也许没有争议,然后我的第一个
1143	claim that an actual	A. 实际索赔
1144	agreement is not	协议不是
1145	necessary to their, it's not	他们需要的,不是
1146	a sufficient condition	足够条件
1147	of their being an obligation.	他们的义务。
1148	I want to now make	现在我想做
1149	a stronger, maybe more controversial	一个更强大,也许更有争议的
1150	claim about the moral limits of	道德限制
1151	actual contracts, that	实际合同,即
1152	a contract or an	合同或合同
1153	act of consent is	同意行为是:
1154	not only not sufficient	不仅不够
1155	but it's not even	但还不算
1156	a necessary condition	必要条件
1157	of their being an obligation.	他们的义务。
1158	And the idea here is	这里的想法是
1159	that if there is reciprocity, if there	如果存在互惠,如果存在
1160	is an exchange	是交换
1161	then	接下来
1162	a receipt of benefits, there can be an obligation	养恤金的领取,可产生义务
1163	even without an act of consent.	即使没有同意
1164	One great example	一个伟大的例子
1165	of this involves	这涉及到
1166	the 18th century	18世纪
1167	philosopher, the Scottish moral	哲学家,苏格兰道德
1168	philosopher David Hume.	哲学家大卫·休姆.
1169	When he was young, Hume	他年轻的时候,休姆
1170	wrote a book arguing against	写了一本反对的书
1171	Locke's idea of an	洛克的想法是一个
1172	original social contract.	原始社会契约.
1173	Hume heapscorned on this	轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻轻的轻的轻轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻的轻
1174	contractarian idea.	契约主义思想.
1175	He said	他说
1176	it was a philosophical fiction,	这是一个哲学小说,
1177	one of the most mysterious and	一个最神秘的...
1178	incomprehensible operations that can	无法理解的行动
1179	possibly be imagined,	也许可以想象到,
1180	this idea of the social contract.	这种社会契约的想法。
1181	Many years later, when he was	许多年后,当他
1182	62 years old, Hume had an	62岁,休姆有一个
1183	experience that put to	经验,用于
1184	the test his rejection of consent	测试他拒绝同意
1185	as the basis of obligation.	作为义务的基础。
1186	Hume had a house in Edinburgh.	休姆在爱丁堡有一栋房子.
1187	He rented it to his friend	他租给他朋友的
1188	James Boswell, who in turn	詹姆斯·博斯韦尔, 转而
1189	sub-led it to a sub-tenant.	子引导为子租户.
1190	The sub-tenant decided that the house needed	副租户决定房子需要
1191	some repairs and a paint job.	一些修理和油漆工作。
1192	He hired a contractor	他雇了一个承包商
1193	to do the work.	做这个工作。
1194	The painter	画家
1195	did the work and sent the bill	做了工作,并寄了账单
1196	to Hume.	给休姆
1197	Hume refused	休姆拒绝
1198	to pay on the grounds that he	付款的理由
1199	hadn't consented.	没有同意。
1200	He hadn't hired	他没有雇人
1201	the painter.	画家。
1202	The case	办案情况
1203	went to court.	上堂. 师曰.
1204	The contractor	承包者
1205	said it's true, Hume didn't agree,	说是真的休姆不同意
1206	but the house needed a painting	但房子需要一幅画
1207	and I gave it a very good one.	我给了它一个非常好的。
1208	Hume thought this was a bad	休姆觉得这样不好
1209	argument.	参数。
1210	The only argument	唯一的论据
1211	this painter makes is that the work was necessary	这个画家认为作品是必要的
1212	to be done, but this is no	但这不是
1213	good answer because by the same rule	答得好,因为同样的规则
1214	this painter may go through	这个画家可能经过
1215	every house in Edinburgh	爱丁堡的每间房子
1216	and do anything proper to be done	并做任何适当的事情
1217	without the landlord's consent	未经房东同意
1218	and give the same reason, that the work	并给出同样的理由,工作
1219	was necessary and that the house	有必要,而且房子
1220	was the better for it.	那样更好
1221	So Hume didn't like	所以休姆不喜欢
1222	the theory that there	在那里的理论
1223	could be obligation to repay a benefit	可能是偿还养恤金的义务
1224	without consent, but the defense	未经同意但辩方
1225	failed and he had to pay.	失败了,他不得不付出代价。
1226	Let me give you one	我给你一个
1227	other example of the distinction	区别的其他例子
1228	between the consent based	双方同意
1229	aspect of obligations	义务的方面
1230	and the benefit based aspect and how	和基于效益的方面以及如何
1231	they're sometimes run together.	他们有时会一起跑
1232	This is based	这是基于
1233	on a personal experience.	在个人经历。
1234	Some years ago	几年前,我说
1235	I was driving across	我开车过去
1236	the country with some friends	国家与一些朋友
1237	and we found ourselves in the middle of nowhere	我们发现自己在荒野中
1238	in Hammond, Indiana.	在印第安纳州的哈蒙德
1239	We stopped at a rest stop	我们停在休息站
1240	and got out of the car and when	下车,什么时候
1241	we came back our car wouldn't start.	我们的车还没开呢
1242	None of us knew much about cars.	我们谁都不懂车
1243	We didn't really know	我们不知道
1244	what to do until we noticed	怎么办,直到我们注意到
1245	that in the parking lot	在停车场里
1246	driving up next to us	开车到我们旁边
1247	was a van and on	曾经是一辆面包车
1248	the side it said Sam's Mobile	上面说山姆的手机
1249	Repair Van and out	修理面包车
1250	of the van came a man,	车上有个男人
1251	presumably Sam,	假设山姆,
1252	and he came up to us and he said	他来到我们身边,说
1253	can I help you?	有什么事吗?
1254	Here's how I work.	这就是我的工作方式。
1255	I work by the hour	我上班的时间
1256	for $50 an hour.	每小时50美元
1257	If I	如果说
1258	fix your car in five minutes you owe me	五分钟后修好你的车,你欠我的
1259	the $50 and if I	50美元,如果是我的话
1260	work on your car for an hour and can't	在你的车上工作一个小时,不能
1261	fix it you'll still owe me the $50.	修好它,你还欠我50美元。
1262	So I said well what is	所以我说得好
1263	the likelihood that you'll be able to fix the	可能你能够修复
1264	car and he didn't answer	车子没接
1265	but he did start	但他确实开始
1266	looking under the, poking around	看着下面,四处游荡
1267	under the steering column.	在引导栏下。
1268	Short time passed he emerged from	短暂的时间流逝,他从
1269	under the steering column and said	并说
1270	there's nothing wrong with the ignition system	点火系统没有问题
1271	but you still have 45 minutes	但你还有45分钟
1272	left should I look under the hood?	我该往左边看吗?
1273	I said	我说
1274	wait a minute.	单
1275	I haven't	我没有
1276	hired you.	雇佣你。
1277	We haven't made any	我们没有做任何
1278	agreement and then he became	同意,然后他变成了
1279	very angry and he	非常愤怒和他
1280	said do you mean to say that if I had	说,你的意思是说,如果我有
1281	fixed your car while I was	我修你的车的时候
1282	working under the steering column that	在指导栏下工作
1283	you wouldn't have paid me?	你不会付钱给我吧?
1284	And I said that's a different	我说这不一样
1285	question.	问题。
1286	I didn't	我没有
1287	go into the distinction between consent	进入同意之间的区别
1288	based and benefit based obligations	以福利为基础的债务
1289	but I think he	但我觉得他
1290	had the intuition that if he had fixed	有直觉,如果他已经固定了,
1291	讽 Iи
1292	would have owed him the $50	本来欠他五十块的
1293	I shared that intuition.	我也有这种直觉
1294	I would have.	我会的
1295	But he	不过他
1296	inferred from that, this	从中推断,
1297	was the fallacy and	是错的,
1298	the reasoning that I think lay behind his	我认为他背后的推理
1299	anger, he inferred from	愤怒,他从
1300	that fact that therefore	因此,
1301	implicitly	隐含
1302	we had an agreement.	我们说好了的
1303	But that it seems to me is a mistake.	但在我看来,这是个错误。
1304	It's a mistake that fails to recognize	这是一个错误,没有认识到
1305	the distinction between these two different	两者的区别
1306	aspects of contract arguments.	(b) 合同论点的方面。
1307	Yes, I agree.	是的,我同意这一点。
1308	I would have owed him $50 if he had	我欠他50块
1309	repaired my car during that time.	期间修了我的车
1310	Not	没有
1311	because we had made	因为我们做了
1312	any agreement, we hadn't.	任何协议,我们没有。
1313	But simply because if he had fixed	但只是因为他已经修好了
1314	my car he would have conferred on me a benefit	我的车,他会给我好处的
1315	for which I would have owed him in the name	我本该以他的名义欠他的
1316	of reciprocity	对等原则
1317	and fairness.	公平无私
1318	So here's another example of	所以这里还有一个例子:
1319	the distinction between these two different	两者的区别
1320	kinds of arguments, these two different	这两种不同的论点
1321	aspects of the morality	道德方面
1322	of contract.	合同的终止。
1323	Now I want to hear how many think I was	现在我想听听我是谁
1324	in the right in that case.	右侧,在这种情况下。
1325	That's reassuring.	这是令人放心的。
1326	Is there anyone who thinks I was in the wrong?	有人认为我错了吗?
1327	Anyone?	有人吗?
1328	You do?	是吗?
1329	Why?	为什么?
1330	Go ahead.	来吧。
1331	Isn't the problem with this is that	问题不在于
1332	any benefit is inherently	任何好处都是固有的
1333	subjectively defined?	主观定义?
1334	I mean, what if you wanted	我的意思是,如果你想要的话
1335	your car broken and he had fixed it?	你的车坏了,他修好了?
1336	I mean...	我是说...
1337	No, I didn't want it broken.	不我不想把它弄断
1338	But who would?	但谁会呢?
1339	Who would?	谁会?
1340	I don't know, someone.	我不知道,有人吗?
1341	I mean, what if	我是说,如果
1342	Hume, you know,	休姆,你知道吗,
1343	what if the painter had painted his house	如果画家画了他的房子
1344	blue but he hated the color blue?	蓝色但他讨厌蓝色?
1345	I mean, you have to	我的意思是,你必须
1346	sort of define what your benefit	来定义你的好处
1347	is before the person does it.	是在他动手之前
1348	Well, all right, so	好吧,这样吧
1349	what would you conclude from that	你会从中得出什么结论
1350	though for the larger issue here?	但对于更大的问题?
1351	Would you conclude that therefore consent	因此,你是否认为同意
1352	is a necessary condition	必要条件
1353	of there being an obligation?	是否有义务?
1354	Absolutely.	当然
1355	You would.	你会的。
1356	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
1357	Nate.	内特
1358	Because otherwise	因为不然
1359	how can we know, Nate says,	我们怎么知道,内特说,
1360	whether there has been an exchange	是否有交换
1361	of equivalent or fair benefits?	同等利益还是公平利益?
1362	Unless we have	除非我们有
1363	the subjective valuation, which may vary	主观估价,可能有所不同
1364	one person to the next	一个人到下一个
1365	of the situation.	情况。
1366	All right, that's a fair	好吧,这很公平
1367	challenge.	挑战。
1368	Let me put to you	让我给你
1369	one other example	另一个例子
1370	in order to	以便
1371	test the relation between these two	测试两者之间的关系
1372	aspects of the morality of contracts.	合同道德的方面。
1373	Suppose I get married, and	如果我结婚了,和
1374	suppose I discover	如果我发现
1375	that after 20 years of	20年过去了
1376	faithfulness on my part,	我的忠诚,
1377	every year on our trip	每年的旅程
1378	across the country, my	整个国家,我的
1379	wife has been seeing another man,	妻子和另一个男人约会了
1380	a man with a van on the Indiana toll	印地安那州有一辆面包车的人
1381	road.	道路。
1382	This part is completely made up, by the way.	顺便说一句,这部分是完全编出来的。
1383	Wouldn't I have two	我没有两个
1384	different reasons for moral outrage?	道德愤怒的不同原因?
1385	One reason could be	一个原因可能是
1386	we had an agreement.	我们说好了的
1387	She broke	她破产了
1388	her promise, referring	她的承诺,提及
1389	to the fact of her consent.	她同意的事实。
1390	But I would also have a second	但我也会有第二个
1391	ground for moral outrage,	道德愤怒的理由,
1392	having nothing to do with the contract	和合同无关
1393	as such.	就是这样。
1394	But I've been	但我已经
1395	so faithful for my part.	如此忠实的我。
1396	Surely I deserve better than this.	我当然应该比这更好的
1397	Is this what I'm due in return?	这就是我应得的回报吗?
1398	And so on.	及诸众生.
1399	So that would point to the element	因此,这将指出要素
1400	of reciprocity.	对等原则。
1401	Each reason has an	每个原因都有
1402	independent moral force.	独立道德力量。
1403	That's	这是
1404	the general point.	一般观点。
1405	And you can	你会的
1406	see this, if you imagine a slight	看看这个,如果你想象一下
1407	variation on the marriage	婚姻变化
1408	case.	案例。
1409	Suppose we hadn't	假设我们没有
1410	been married for 20 years.	结婚20年了
1411	Suppose we were just married,	假设我们刚结婚
1412	and that the betrayal occurred	而背叛的发生
1413	on the way to our honeymoon in Hammond,	在去哈蒙德度蜜月的路上
1414	Indiana, after the	印第安纳州之后
1415	contract has been made,	已经签订合同,
1416	but before there is any history	但是在有历史之前
1417	of performance on my part.	表现的我。
1418	Performance of the	预算执行情况
1419	contract, I mean.	我是说合同
1420	I would still...	我仍然会...
1421	Oh, come on.	哦,来吧。
1422	Come on.	来吧。
1423	I would still	我仍然会
1424	with Julian,	与朱利安,
1425	I'd be able to say, but you	我可以说,但你
1426	promised.	我保证
1427	You promised.	你答应过我的
1428	That would isolate	那会孤立
1429	the pure element of consent,	纯粹的同意要素,
1430	right?	对吧?
1431	Where there were no	没有的地方
1432	benefit, never	受益,永远不要
1433	mind.	头脑。
1434	You get the idea.	你得到这个想法。
1435	Here's the main idea.	这是主要的想法。
1436	Actual contracts	实际合同
1437	have their moral force	有他们的道德力量
1438	in virtue of two	由于两个
1439	distinguishable ideals.	可区分的理想。
1440	Autonomy and reciprocity.	自治与互惠.
1441	But	不过
1442	in real life,	在现实生活中,
1443	every actual contract	每个实际合同
1444	may fall short,	可能不够,
1445	may fail to realize	可能无法实现
1446	the ideals that give contracts	赋予合同的理想
1447	their moral force in the first	他们的道德力量在第一
1448	place.	地点。
1449	The ideal of	理想的理想
1450	autonomy may not be realized	自治可能无法实现
1451	because there may be a difference in the bargaining	因为谈判可能不同
1452	power of the parties.	政党的权力。
1453	The ideal of reciprocity	互惠的理想
1454	may not be realized	可能无法实现
1455	because there may be a difference of	因为可能有区别
1456	knowledge between the parties.	当事人之间的知识。
1457	And so they may misidentify	这样他们就会误认
1458	what really counts	真正重要的东西
1459	as having equivalent	具有同等效力
1460	value.	数值。
1461	Now,	现在,
1462	suppose you were to imagine	假设你想象
1463	a contract	合同
1464	where the ideals of autonomy	自治的理想
1465	and of reciprocity	和互惠原则
1466	were not subject	不属于主题
1467	to contingency, but	应急,但
1468	were guaranteed to be realized.	保证实现。
1469	What kind of contract would that have to be?	那会是什么合同?
1470	Imagine a contract	想象一个合同
1471	among parties who were	在缔约方中,
1472	equal in power and knowledge,	在权力和知识方面是平等的,
1473	rather than unequal,	而不是不平等,
1474	who were identically situated rather	他们的位置相当相同
1475	than differently situated.	与位置不同。
1476	That is the	这是
1477	idea behind	后脑勺
1478	2. Rawls的索赔
1479	that the way to think about justice	思考正义的方式
1480	is from the standpoint	从观点来看
1481	of a hypothetical contract	假设合同
1482	behind a veil of ignorance	在无知的面纱后面
1483	that creates a condition of equality	创造平等条件
1484	by ruling	裁决
1485	out or enabling us	离开或允许我们
1486	to forget for the moment	暂时忘记
1487	the differences in power and knowledge	权力和知识的差异
1488	that could,	这可以,
1489	even in principle, lead	即使原则上,铅
1490	to unfair results.	对不公平的结果。
1491	This is why,	这就是为什么,
1492	for content for Rawls, a hypothetical	用于 Rawls 的内容,一种假设
1493	contract among equals	平等契约
1494	is the only way	只有这样
1495	to think about principles	考虑原则
1496	of justice.	正义。
1497	What will those principles	这些原则将是什么?
1498	be?	是吗?
1499	That's the question we'll turn to	这就是我们要面对的问题
1500	next time.	下次再说吧
1501	This program is provided by	此程序由
1502	additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

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P10 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p10 9. 9.小心你的动机 (P10)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p10 9. 9.小心你的动机 (P10)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 55:14

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
0:07	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
0:30	Now we turn to the hardest philosopher we're going to read in this course.	现在我们转向在这个课程中要读的最难的哲学家.
0:39	Today we turn to Immanuel Kant who offers a different account	今天我们请伊曼纽尔·康德提供不同的说法
0:45	of why we have a categorical duty to respect the dignity of persons	我们为何有绝对义务尊重人的尊严?
0:51	and not to use people as means merely even for good ends.	而不以人为手段哪怕是为了好的目的
1:01	Kant excelled at the University of Königsberg at the age of 16.	康德16岁在科尼斯贝格大学表现优异.
1:06	At the age of 31 he got his first job as an unsalaryed lecturer paid on commission	31岁时,他得到了第一个工作一个无薪讲师付佣金
1:14	based on the number of students who showed up at his lectures.	根据参加他讲座的学生人数。
1:17	This is a sensible system that Harvard would do well to consider.	这是一个明智的系统,哈佛会好好考虑的。

展开字幕全文（679 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
2	Additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
3	Now we turn to the hardest philosopher we're going to read in this course.	现在我们转向在这个课程中要读的最难的哲学家.
4	Today we turn to Immanuel Kant who offers a different account	今天我们请伊曼纽尔·康德提供不同的说法
5	of why we have a categorical duty to respect the dignity of persons	我们为何有绝对义务尊重人的尊严?
6	and not to use people as means merely even for good ends.	而不以人为手段哪怕是为了好的目的
7	Kant excelled at the University of Königsberg at the age of 16.	康德16岁在科尼斯贝格大学表现优异.
8	At the age of 31 he got his first job as an unsalaryed lecturer paid on commission	31岁时,他得到了第一个工作一个无薪讲师付佣金
9	based on the number of students who showed up at his lectures.	根据参加他讲座的学生人数。
10	This is a sensible system that Harvard would do well to consider.	这是一个明智的系统,哈佛会好好考虑的。
11	Luckily for Kant he was a popular lecturer and also an industrious one	幸好康德是个受欢迎的讲师也是一位杰出的讲师
12	and so he eked out a meager living.	于是他拿出了活下来的小人物
13	It wasn't until he was 57 that he published his first major work.	直到57岁他才出版了他的第一部主要作品.
14	But it was worth the wait.	但它值得等待。
15	The book was The Critique of Pure Reason,	这本书是"纯理性的批评"
16	perhaps the most important work in all of modern philosophy.	或许是现代哲学中最重要的作品
17	And a few years later Kant wrote the groundwork for the metaphysics of morals	几年后康德写了道德的元物理学基础
18	which we read in this course.	我们读了这个课程。
19	I want to acknowledge even before we start that Kant is a difficult thinker.	甚至在我们开始之前我想承认康德是个困难的思想家
20	But it's important to try to figure out what he's saying	但必须想清楚他说什么
21	because what this book is about is, well,	因为这本书的内容是,嗯,
22	it's about what the supreme principle of morality is, number one.	这是关于道德的最高原则,第一。
23	And it's also, it gives us an account,	而且,它给我们一个账户,
24	one of the most powerful accounts we have, of what freedom really is.	我们拥有的最强大的说法之一, 自由到底是什么。
25	So let me start today.	所以,让我从今天开始。
26	Kant rejects utilitarianism.	康德拒绝功利主义.
27	He thinks that the individual person, all human beings,	他认为个人,所有的人,
28	have a certain dignity that commands our respect.	有某种尊严,赢得我们的尊重。
29	The reason the individual is sacred or the bearer of rights according to Kant	康德认为,个人是神圣的或拥有权利的原因
30	doesn't stem from the idea that we own ourselves	不是因为我们拥有自己
31	but instead from the idea that we are all rational beings.	而不是认为我们都是理性的人
32	We're all rational beings which simply means	我们都是理性的生物那只是意味着
33	that we are beings who are capable of reason.	我们是有理智的人
34	We are also autonomous beings	我们也是自主的人
35	which is to say that we are beings capable of acting and choosing freely.	这就是说,我们是能够自由行事和选择的人。
36	Now, this capacity for reason and freedom isn't the only capacity we have.	这种理性和自由的能力并不是我们唯一的能力
37	We also have the capacity for pain and pleasure, for suffering and satisfaction.	我们还有能力承受痛苦和快乐,能够承受痛苦和满足。
38	Kant admits the utilitarians were half right.	康德承认功利主义者一半是对的.
39	Of course we seek to avoid pain and we like pleasure.	当然,我们力求避免痛苦,我们喜欢快乐。
40	Kant doesn't deny this.	康德不否认这一点.
41	What he does deny is Benson's claim that pain and pleasure are our sovereign masters.	他否认的是本森声称痛苦和快乐是我们的主权主人
42	He thinks that's wrong.	他认为这是错误的。
43	Kant thinks that it's our rational capacity that makes us distinctive,	康德认为这是我们理性的能力使我们与众不同
44	that makes us special, that sets us apart from and above mere animal existence.	这让我们变得特别, 把我们与动物的存在分开。
45	It makes us something more than just physical creatures with appetites.	这让我们不只是有食欲的生物
46	Now, we often think of freedom as simply consisting in doing what we want	现在,我们经常认为自由只是做我们想要的
47	or in the absence of obstacles to getting what we want.	或无障碍获得我们想要的东西。
48	That's one way of thinking about freedom.	这是对自由的一种思考方式.
49	But this isn't Kant's idea of freedom.	但这不是康德的自由思想.
50	Kant has a more stringent, demanding notion of what it means to be free.	康德对自由的意义有更严格,更严格的观念.
51	And though it's stringent and demanding, if you think it through	虽然很苛刻,很苛刻,如果你想清楚
52	it's actually pretty persuasive.	其实很有说服力
53	Kant reasons as follows.	康德的理由如下.
54	When we, like animals, seek after pleasure or the satisfaction of our desires	当我们像动物一样追求快乐或满足我们的欲望
55	or the avoidance of pain, when we do that we aren't really acting freely.	或避免痛苦, 当我们这样做,我们不是真正自由行动。
56	Why not?	为什么不呢?
57	и痷琌 thosecm impulse
58	I didn't choose this particular hunger or that particular appetite.	我没有选择这种特殊的饥饿或那种特殊的食欲。
59	And so when I act to satisfy it, I'm just acting according to natural necessity.	所以当我行动满足它, 我只是根据自然的需要。
60	And for Kant, freedom is the opposite of necessity.	而对于康德来说,自由与必要性相反.
61	There was an advertising slogan for the soft drink Sprite a few years ago.	几年前出现了软饮料Sprite的广告口号.
62	The slogan was, obey your thirst.	口号是顺从你的口渴
63	There's a Kantian insight buried in that Sprite advertising slogan.	有康德的洞察力埋藏在斯普拉蒂广告口号里
64	That in a way is Kant's point.	这在某种程度上是康德的观点。
65	When you go for Sprite or Pepsi, you're really, you might think that you're choosing freely	当你去Sprite或百事可乐, 你真的,你可能会认为你自由选择
66	Sprite versus Pepsi, but you're actually obeying something, a thirst,	Sprite对百事公司, 但你实际上在服从一些东西, 一个渴,
67	or maybe a desire manufactured or massaged by advertising.	或者是广告制造或按摩的欲望
68	You're obeying a prompting that you yourself haven't chosen or created.	你在服从一个提示,即你自己没有选择或创造。
69	And here it's worth noticing Kant's specially demanding idea of freedom.	这里值得注意康德特别要求的自由思想.
70	What way of acting, how can my will be determined if not by the promptings of nature	怎样行动,如果没有大自然的启示,我的意志如何决定?
71	or my hunger or my appetite or my desires?	还是我的饥渴或欲望?
72	Kant's answer, to act freely is to act autonomously.	康德的回答,自由行动就是自主行动.
73	And to act autonomously is to act according to a law that I give myself,	自主行动就是按照我给自己的法律行事
74	not according to the physical laws of nature or to the laws of cause and effect,	不符合自然实体法或因果法则,
75	which include my desire to eat or to drink or to choose this food in a restaurant over that.	包括我想吃喝或在餐厅里选择这种食物
76	Now, what is the opposite?	现在,什么是相反的?
77	What is the opposite of autonomy for Kant?	康德的自治权又有什么反面呢?
78	He invents a special term to describe the opposite of autonomy.	他发明了一个特殊术语来描述自治的相反.
79	Heteronomy is the opposite of autonomy.	异体性与自主性相反.
80	When I act heteronomously, I'm acting according to an inclination	当我行为异常时,我表现的倾向
81	or a desire that I haven't chosen for myself.	或者我还没有为自己选择的欲望
82	So freedom as autonomy is the specially stringent idea that Kant insists on.	因此,作为自主的自由是康德所坚持的特别严格的想法.
83	Now, why is autonomy the opposite of acting heteronomously or according to the dictates of nature?	现在,为什么自主性与异端行为或自然规律相反?
84	Kant's point is that nature is governed by laws, laws of cause and effect, for example.	康德的观点是,自然受到法律,因果法的制约,比如说.
85	Suppose you drop a billiard ball.	如果你掉了个台球的话
86	It falls to the ground.	坠于地.
87	We wouldn't say the billiard ball is acting freely.	我们不会说台球是自由的
88	Why not?	为什么不呢?
89	It's acting according to the law of nature, according to the laws of cause and effect, the law of gravity.	依自然之法行,因果之法,重力之法.
90	And just as he has an unusually demanding and stringent conception of freedom,	就像他对自由有异乎寻常的要求和严格的概念一样,
91	where freedom as autonomy, he also has a demanding conception of morality.	在自由作为自主的地方,他也有严格的道德观念。
92	To act freely is not to choose the best means to a given end.	自由行动不是选择达到某一目的的最佳手段。
93	It's to choose the end itself for its own sake.	是为自性而自选终.
94	And that's something that human beings can do and that billiard balls can't.	这是人类可以做的, 和台球不能。
95	Insofar as we act on inclination or pursue pleasure,	只要我们按倾向行事或追求快乐
96	we act as means to the realization of ends given outside us.	我们作为实现我们之外的目标的手段。
97	We are instruments rather than authors of the purposes we pursue.	我们是文书而不是我们所追求宗旨的作者。
98	That's the heteronomous determination of the will.	这就是意志的异质决定.
99	On the other hand, insofar as we act autonomously, according to a law we give ourselves,	另一方面,只要我们按照我们赋予自己的法律自主行事,
100	we do something for its own sake as an end in itself.	我们做一些事情是为了它本身的目的。
101	When we act autonomously, we cease to be instruments to purposes given outside us.	当我们自主行动时,我们不再是实现我们以外赋予我们的目的的工具。
102	We become, or we can come to think of ourselves, as ends in ourselves.	我们变成,或者我们可以来思考我们自己,作为我们自己的目的。
103	This capacity to act freely, Kant tells us, is what gives human life its special dignity.	康德告诉我们,这种自由行动的能力使人的生命具有其特殊尊严。
104	Respecting human dignity means regarding persons not just as means but also as ends in themselves.	尊重人的尊严不仅意味着对人采取的手段,而且也意味着目的本身。
105	And this is why it's wrong to use people for the sake of other people's well-being or happiness.	这也是为什么为了他人的福祉或幸福而利用他人是错误的.
106	This is the real reason, Kant says, that utilitarianism goes wrong.	康德说,这是功利主义错误的真正原因。
107	This is the reason it's important to respect the dignity of persons and to uphold their rights.	这就是尊重人的尊严,维护其权利的重要性所在.
108	So even if there are cases, remember John Stuart Mill said,	所以即使有案子记住约翰·斯图尔特·米尔说过
109	well in the long run if we uphold justice and respect the dignity of persons, we will maximize human happiness.	从长远来看,如果我们坚持正义和尊重人的尊严,我们将最大限度地实现人类幸福。
110	What would Kant's answer be to that?	康德的答案是什么?
111	What would his answer be?	他的答案会是什么?
112	Even if that were true, even if the calculus worked out that way,	即使这是真的, 即使微积分是那样的,
113	even if you shouldn't throw the Christians to the lions because in the long run fear will spread, the overall utility will decline.	即使你不应该把基督徒扔给狮子因为从长远来看,恐惧会蔓延, 整体效用会下降。
114	The utilitarian would be upholding justice and rights and respect for persons for the wrong reason,	功利主义者将维护正义和权利,并因错误的理由尊重人,
115	for a purely contingent reason, for an instrumental reason.	纯粹的或有原因, 一个重要原因。
116	It would still be using people, even where the calculus works out for the best in the long run,	它仍然会使用人, 即使其中的微积分工作在长期最好的,
117	it would still be using people as means rather than respecting them as ends in themselves.	它仍将利用人民作为手段,而不是尊重他们本身的目的。
118	So that's Kant's idea of freedom as autonomy.	这就是康德将自由作为自治的思想.
119	And you can begin to see how it's connected to his idea of morality.	你可以开始看到它是如何与他的道德观念联系在一起的。
120	But we still have to answer one more question.	但我们还需要回答一个问题。
121	What gives an act its moral worth in the first place?	什么让一个行为它的道德价值首先?
122	If it can't be directed at utility or satisfying wants and desires, what gives an action its moral worth?	如果它不能被指向效用或满足欲望和欲望,那它是什么让行动具有道德价值?
123	This leads us from Kant's demanding idea of freedom to his demanding idea of morality.	这使我们从康德要求自由的观念,到他要求道德的观念.
124	What does Kant say?	康德怎么说?
125	What makes an action morally worthy consists not in the consequences or in the results that flow from it.	使一项行动具有道德价值的不是后果,也不是由此产生的结果。
126	What makes an action morally worthy has to do with the motive, with the quality of the will,	道德上值得采取的行动与动机、意志的质量有关,
127	with the intention for which the act is done.	行为意图。
128	What matters is the motive.	重要的是动机
129	And the motive must be of a certain kind.	而动机必须是某种类型的.
130	So the moral worth of an action depends on the motive for which it's done.	所以一个行动的道德价值取决于它为之而作的动机.
131	And the important thing is that the person do the right thing for the right reason.	而重要的是,人为了正确的理由做正确的事情.
132	A good will isn't good because of what it affects or accomplishes, Kant writes.	康德写道:
133	It's good in itself.	其义自在.
134	Even if by its utmost effort the good will accomplishes nothing,	即使他尽了最大努力善良的意志一无所获
135	it would still shine like a jewel for its own sake as something which has its full value in itself.	它仍然会像一颗珠宝一样闪耀着因为它本身就具有充分的价值
136	And so for any action to be morally good, it's not enough that it should conform to the moral law.	因此,任何行动要想在道德上是好的,就不足以使其符合道德法则.
137	It must also be done for the sake of the moral law.	亦须为道德法故.
138	The idea is that the motive confers the moral worth on an action.	这个想法是,动机赋予一项行动道德价值。
139	And the only kind of motive that can confer moral worth on an action is the motive of duty.	而唯一能赋予某项行动道德价值的动机就是责任动机.
140	Well, what's the opposite of doing something out of a sense of duty because it's right?	那么,什么是相反的做一些事情出于一种责任感,因为它是正确的?
141	Well, for Kant, the opposite would be all of those motives having to do with our inclinations.	对康德来说与我们倾向相关的动机正好相反
142	And inclinations refer to all of our desires, all of our contingently given wants, preferences, impulses, and the like.	倾向是指我们所有的欲望, 我们所有偶然得到的欲望,喜好,冲动等等。
143	Only actions done for the sake of the moral law, for the sake of duty, only these actions have moral worth.	只有为了道德法则,为了责任而行动,只有这些行动才有道德价值.
144	Now I want to see what you think about this idea.	现在我想看看你对这个想法的看法。
145	But first let's consider a few examples.	但首先让我们考虑几个例子。
146	Kant begins with an example of a shopkeeper.	康德从一个店主的例子开始.
147	He wants to bring out the intuition and make plausible the idea that what confers moral worth on an action is that it be done because it's right.	他想展现出直觉并让这个想法令人信服, 使一个行动具有道德价值的是因为它是正确的。
148	He says suppose there's a shopkeeper and an inexperienced customer comes in.	他说,假设有一个店员和缺乏经验的客户进来。
149	The shopkeeper knows that he could give the customer the wrong change, could shortchange the customer and get away with it.	店主知道,他可以给客户错误的改变,可以缩短客户的时间并逃脱.
150	At least that customer wouldn't know.	至少那个顾客不知道
151	But the shopkeeper nonetheless says, well, if I shortchange this customer, word may get out, my reputation would be damaged and I would lose business.	但是店主还是说如果我少了这个顾客消息可能会传出去我的名声会受损我就会失去生意
152	So I won't shortchange this customer.	所以我不会减少这个客户。
153	The shopkeeper does nothing wrong.	店主没有做错什么
154	He gives the correct change.	他给了正确的改变。
155	But does his action have moral worth?	但他的行为有道德价值吗?
156	Kant says no.	康德说不行
157	It doesn't have moral worth because the shopkeeper only did the right thing for the wrong reason out of self-interest.	它没有道德价值,因为店主出于自身利益,只出于错误的原因做了正确的事情.
158	That's a pretty straightforward case.	这案子很直接
159	Then he takes another case, the case of suicide.	然后他又接了一起自杀案
160	He says we have a duty to preserve ourselves.	他说我们有责任保护自己
161	Now for most people who love life, we have multiple reasons for not taking our own lives.	现在,对于大多数热爱生命的人来说,我们有多重理由不夺走自己的生命.
162	So the only way we can really tell, the only way we can isolate the operative motive for someone who doesn't take his or her life is to imagine someone who's miserable	所以,我们唯一能真正辨别的方法, 唯一能隔离行动动机的人谁不夺走他或她的生命,是想象一个人谁是悲惨的
163	and who despite having an absolutely miserable life, nonetheless recognizes the duty to preserve oneself and so does not commit suicide.	尽管生活极其悲惨,但承认有责任保护自己,因此不会自杀。
164	The force of the example is to bring out the motive that matters.	例子的力量在于提出重要的动机。
165	And the motive that matters for morality is doing the right thing for the sake of duty.	而对于道德至关重要的动机,是为责任而做正确的事情.
166	Let me just give you a couple of other examples.	让我举几个其他例子。
167	The Better Business Bureau.	更好的商业局.
168	What's their slogan?	他们的口号是什么?
169	The slogan of the Better Business Bureau?	更好的商业局的口号?
170	Honesty is the best policy.	诚实是最好的政策。
171	It's also the most profitable.	亦名最上利乐.
172	这是纽约时报的Better Business Bureau的整页广告.
173	Honesty is as important as any other asset because a business that deals in truth, openness and fair value cannot help but do well.	诚实与任何其他资产一样重要,因为以真理、开放和公允价值交易的企业不能不做好事。
174	Come join us and profit from it.	来加入我们,从中获利。
175	What would Kant say about the moral worth of the honest dealings of members of the Better Business Bureau?	康德会怎样评价好商局成员诚实交易的道德价值?.
176	What would he say?	他会说什么?
177	That here's a perfect example that if this is the reason that these companies deal honestly with their customers,	这是一个很好的例子如果这是这些公司诚实地对待客户的原因
178	their action lacks moral worth.	他们的行动缺乏道德价值。
179	This is Kant's point.	这是康德的观点。
180	Or a couple of years ago at the University of Maryland there was a problem with cheating.	或几年前在马里兰大学发生作弊的问题。
181	And so they initiated an honor system and they created a program with local merchants that if you signed the honor pledge,	于是他们启动了一个荣誉制度他们与当地商人创建了一个程序如果你签署了荣誉保证书
182	a pledge not to cheat, you would get discounts of 10 to 25 percent at local shops.	保证不作弊,你会得到折扣 10%到25%的地方商店。
183	Well, what would you think of someone motivated to uphold an honor code with the hope of discounts?	那么,你认为有人动机维护荣誉代码与希望折扣?
184	It's the same as Kant's shock keeper.	与康德震动持戒者同.
185	The point is what matters is the quality of the will, the character of the motive,	关键在于遗嘱的质量动机的特征
186	and the relevant motive to morality can only be the motive of duty, not the motive of inclination.	道德的相关动机只能是责任的动机,而不是倾向的动机.
187	And when I act out of duty, when I resist as my motive for acting inclinations or self-interest, even sympathy and altruism,	当我失职时,当我抗拒作为我的动机表现倾向或自我利益, 甚至同情和利他主义,
188	only then am I acting freely, only then am I acting autonomously.	只有那时我才能自由行动只有那时我才能自主行动
189	Only then is my will not determined or governed by external considerations.	只有这样,我的意志才不是由外部考虑决定或支配的。
190	That's the link between Kant's idea of freedom and of morality.	这就是康德的自由思想和道德思想之间的联系.
191	Now I want to pause here to see if all of this is clear or if you have some questions or puzzles.	现在我想在这里暂停一下,看看这一切是否都清楚,或者你是否有一些问题或谜题。
192	They can be questions of clarification or they can be challenges.	它们可以是澄清问题,也可以是挑战。
193	If you want to challenge this idea that only the motive of duty confers moral worth on the action, what do you think?	如果你想质疑这个观点,即只有责任的动机才使行动具有道德价值,你觉得呢?
194	Yes?	是吗?
195	Yeah, I actually have two questions of clarification.	是的,我实际上有两个问题需要澄清。
196	The first is there seems to be an aspect of this that makes it sort of self-defeating	第一,这似乎有一个方面使它有点自负
197	in that once you're conscious of what morality is, you can sort of alter your motive to achieve that end of morality.	一旦你意识到道德是什么, 你就可以改变你的动机去达到道德的目的。
198	Give me an example of what you have in mind.	举个例子说明你在想什么
199	The shopkeeper example, if he decides that he wants to give the person the money to do the right thing	店主的例子,如果他决定他想要给一个人的钱做正确的事情
200	and he decides that's his motive to do so because he wants to be moral, then isn't that sort of defeating the purity of his action?	他决定他这样做的动机是因为他想要品行道德, 那么这不是那种击败他的纯洁行为吗?
201	If morality is determined by his motive, his motive is then to act morally.	如果道德是由他的动机决定的,那么他的动机就是道德行动.
202	So you're imagining a case, not of the purely selfish calculating shopkeeper,	所以你在想象一个案子, 不是纯粹自私的计算店员,
203	but of one who says, well he may consider short-changing the customer,	但是,如果有人说, 他可能会考虑短期改变客户,
204	but then he says not, well my reputation might suffer if word gets out,	但是他说不行如果消息传出去我的名声可能会受损
205	but instead he says actually I would like to be the kind of honest person who gives the right change to customers	但他却说,实际上我想成为那种诚实的人给客户带来正确的改变
206	simply because it's the right thing to do.	只是因为它是正确的事情做。
207	Or simply because I want to be moral?	还是仅仅因为我想道德?
208	Because I want to be moral.	因为我想成为道德的。
209	I want to be a good person.	我想成为一个好人。
210	And so I'm going to conform all of my actions to what morality requires.	所以我要把我所有的行动都符合道德要求
211	It's a subtle point.	微妙之义.
212	It's a good question.	善问.
213	Kant does acknowledge, you're pressing Kant on an important point here.	康德确实承认了你在把康德逼迫到一个重要点上
214	Kant does say there has to be some incentive to obey the moral law.	康德确实说过必须遵守道德法则
215	It can't be a self-interested incentive that would defeat it by definition.	这不可能是一种自利的激励,从定义上来说,是会打败它的.
216	So he speaks of a different kind of incentive from an inclination.	因此,他提到一种不同的激励与倾向。
217	He speaks of reverence for the moral law.	说敬重道德法.
218	So if that shopkeeper says, I want to develop a reverence for the moral law,	所以如果那个店主说我要对道德法则保持敬重
219	and so I'm going to do the right thing, then I think he's there.	所以我会做正确的事情,然后我想他在那里。
220	He's there as far as Kant's concerned.	在康德处.
221	Because he's formed his motive.	因为他已经形成了他的动机
222	His will is conforming to the moral law once he sees the importance of it.	他的意志一旦认识到道德法的重要性就符合道德法则.
223	So it would count.	这样就算数了
224	It would count.	它会算数。
225	And then secondly, very quickly, what stops morality from becoming completely objective in this point?	其次,非常迅速地,是什么阻止了道德在这个时候变得完全客观?
226	What stops morality from becoming completely subjective?	是什么阻止道德变得完全主观?
227	If morality is completely determined by your morals, then how can you apply this?	如果道德是完全由你的道德决定的,那么你怎样应用呢?
228	That's also a great question.	这也是个大问题。
229	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
230	My name is Amadi.	我叫阿玛迪
231	Amadi?	阿玛迪?
232	All right.	好吧,我们走。
233	If acting morally means acting according to a moral law, out of duty,	如果道德行为意味着根据道德法行事,则出于职责考虑,
234	and if it's also to act freely in the sense of autonomously,	如果它也是在自主的意义上自由行动的,
235	it must mean that I'm acting according to a law that I give myself.	这一定意味着我的行为符合我给自己的法律
236	That's what it means to act autonomously.	自主行动就是这个意思.
237	Amadi is right about that.	阿玛迪说得对
238	But that does raise a really interesting question.	这确实引起了一个非常有趣的问题。
239	If acting autonomously means acting according to a law I give myself,	如果独立行事意味着按照我赋予自己的法律行事
240	that's how I escape the chain of cause and effect and the laws of nature.	这就是我如何逃脱因果关系链和自然法则。
241	What's to guarantee that the law I give myself when I'm acting out of duty	何以能保证我失职时给自己的法律
242	is the same as the law that Amadi is giving himself,	和阿玛迪给自己的法律一样
243	and that each of you gives yourselves?	你们各自捐献吗?
244	Well, here's the question.	问题是...
245	How many moral laws, from Kant's point of view, are there in this room?	从康德看,这房间有多少道德法则?
246	Are there a thousand, or is there one?	有一千个,还是一个?
247	He thinks there's one, which in a way does go back to this question.	他认为,有一个, 在某种程度上,它确实回到这个问题。
248	All right, what is the moral law?	好吧,什么是道德法则?
249	What does it tell us?	它告诉我们什么?
250	It sounds like it to act autonomously is to act according to one's conscience,	这听起来像它自主行动是根据一个人的良心采取行动,
251	according to a law one gives oneself.	根据法律规定,
252	But what guarantees that if we all exercise our reason,	但是,什么保证如果我们都行使我们的理由,
253	we will come up with one and the same moral law?	我们会想出同样的道德法则吗?
254	That's what Amadi wants to know.	这就是阿玛迪想知道的。
255	Here's Kant's answer.	这是康德的答案。
256	The reason that leads us to the law we give ourselves as autonomous beings	导致我们走向法律的原因我们把自己作为自主的生物
257	is a reason, it's a kind of practical reason that we share as human beings.	这是一个原因,这是一个实际的原因我们作为人类共享。
258	It's not idiosyncratic.	亦非仪轨.
259	The reason we need to respect the dignity of persons is that we're all rational beings.	我们需要尊重人格尊严的原因是,我们都是理性的生物.
260	We all have the capacity for reason,	我们都有理智的能力
261	and it's the exercise of that capacity for reason which exists undifferentiated in all of us	而正是出于理性而行使这种能力,在我们所有人中都是无差别的。
262	that makes us worthy of dignity, all of us,	这让我们值得尊严,我们所有人,
263	and since it's the same capacity for reason,	由於理性的能力是一样的
264	unqualified by particular autobiographies and life circumstances,	特定自传和生活环境不合格,
265	it's the same universal capacity for reason that delivers the moral law.	同样的普适能力是理性的,能传递道德法则.
266	It turns out that to act autonomously is to act according to a law we give ourselves,	事实证明,自主行动就是按照我们赋予自己的法律行事,
267	exercising our reason, but it's the reason we share with everyone as rational beings.	行使我们的理性, 但这是我们与每个人共享的原因作为理性生物。
268	Not the particular reasons we have given our upbringings, our particular values, our particular interests.	并不是我们给予我们教养的特殊原因,我们的特殊价值,我们的特殊利益.
269	It's pure practical reason in Kant's terms which legislates a priori,	在康德的术语中,这是纯粹的实际原因立法先验,
270	regardless of any particular contingent or empirical ends.	不论任何特定或经验目的。
271	Well, what moral law would that kind of reason deliver?	那么,什么道德法会那种理由产生?
272	What is its content?	内容是什么?
273	To answer that question, you have to read the groundwork,	要回答这个问题,你得读一下基础
274	and we'll continue with that question next time.	下次我们再继续提问
275	For Kant, morally speaking, suicide is on a par with murder.	对康德来说,道德上来说,自杀等同于谋杀。
276	It's on a par with murder because what we violate when we take a life,	这和谋杀是等同的因为当我们夺去生命时
277	when we take someone's life, ours or somebody else's,	当我们夺走别人的生命,我们的生命或者别人的生命,
278	we use that person, we use a rational being, we use humanity as a means,	我们利用那个人我们利用理性的存在我们利用人性作为手段
279	and so we fail to respect humanity as an end.	因此,我们不尊重人类作为目的。
280	Today we turn back to Kant before we do.	今天我们回到康德之前
281	Remember, this is the week by the end of which all of you will basically get Kant,	记住,这是一个周末你们基本上会得到康德,
282	figure out what he's up to.	想想他到底想怎样
283	You're laughing.	你在笑吗?
284	No, it will happen.	不,它会发生的。
285	Kant's groundwork is about two big questions.	康德的基础工作涉及两个大问题.
286	First, what is the supreme principle of morality?	第一,道德的最高原则是什么?
287	Second, how is freedom possible?	第二,如何实现自由?
288	Two big questions.	二大问.
289	Now, one way of making your way through this dense philosophical book	现在,用一种方法让你通过这个密集的哲学书籍
290	is to bear in mind a set of oppositions or contrasts or dualisms that are related.	是要记住一系列相关的反对或对比或二元论.
291	Today I'd like to talk about them.	今天我想谈谈
292	Today we're going to answer the question,	今天我们要回答这个问题
293	what, according to Kant, is the supreme principle of morality?	康德认为,道德的最高原则是什么?
294	And in answering that question, in working our way up to Kant's answer to that question,	在回答这个问题时,在努力完成康德的回答时,
295	it will help to bear in mind three contrasts or dualisms that Kant sets out.	它将有助于铭记康德提出的三种对比或二元论。
296	The first, you remember, had to do with the motive according to which we act.	第一个,你记得, 和我们行动的动机有关。
297	And according to Kant, only one kind of motive is consistent with morality,	康德说只有一种动机符合道德
298	the motive of duty, doing the right thing for the right reason.	负责的动机, 做正确的事情为正确的理由。
299	What other kind of motives are there?	还有什么其他动机?
300	Kant sums them up in the category of inclination.	康德把它们归为倾斜类
301	Every time, the motive for what we do is to satisfy a desire or a preference	每次我们这样做的动机都是为了满足欲望或喜好
302	that we may have to pursue some interest.	我们可能不得不追求某种兴趣。
303	We're acting out of inclination.	我们的行为是出于倾向。
304	Now, let me pause to see if in thinking about the question of the motive of duty, the good will,	现在,让我停下来看看,如果在思考责任的动机,善意的问题,
305	see if any of you has a question about that much of Kant's claim.	看看你们有没有人对康德的这大部分要求有疑问
306	Or is everybody happy with this distinction?	还是每个人都喜欢这种区别?
307	What do you think?	你觉得呢?
308	Go ahead.	来吧。
309	When you make that distinction between duty and inclination,	当你把责任和倾向区分开来
310	is there ever any moral action ever?	有没有道德行为?
311	I mean, you could always kind of probably find some selfish motive, can't you?	我的意思是,你总是可以找到一些自私的动机,不是吗?
312	Maybe very often people do have self-interested motives when they act.	也许人们在行动时确实有自利的动机.
313	Kant wouldn't dispute that.	康德不会反对的
314	But what Kant is saying is that insofar as we act morally,	但康德的意思是只要我们的行为合乎道德
315	that is, insofar as our actions have moral worth,	也就是说,只要我们的行动具有道德价值,
316	what confers moral worth is precisely our capacity to rise above self-interest	赋予道德价值的正是我们超越自身利益的能力
317	and prudence and inclination and to act out of duty.	以及谨慎和倾向和不履行职责。
318	Some years ago, I read about a spelling bee,	几年前,我读到一个拼音蜜蜂
319	and there was a young man who was declared the winner of the spelling bee.	有个年轻人被宣布为拼音蜜蜂的赢家
320	A kid named Andrew, 13 years old,	一个叫安德鲁的孩子,13岁
321	the winning word, the word that he was able to spell was echolalia.	他能够拼写的词是回声拉莉亚
322	Does anyone know what echolalia is?	有人知道什么是回声拉莉亚吗?
323	It's not some type of flower, no?	这不是某种花,不是吗?
324	It means the tendency to repeat as an echo, to repeat what you've heard.	意思是重复作为回声的倾向,重复你听到的.
325	Anyhow, he misspelled it, actually.	无论如何,他拼错了,其实。
326	But the judges misheard him.	但法官们听错了他
327	They thought he had spelled it correctly and awarded him the championship of the National Spelling Bee.	他们认为他拼的正确,并授予他全国拼音蜜蜂的冠军.
328	And he went to the judges afterward and said,	然后他去找法官说
329	actually, I misspelled it.	其实我拼错了
330	I don't deserve the prize.	我不值得奖项。
331	And he was regarded as a moral hero.	他被视为道德英雄
332	And he was written up in the New York Times,	他被写在纽约时报,
333	Misspeller是拼写蜜蜂英雄.
334	There's Andrew with his proud mother.	安德鲁带着他骄傲的母亲
335	And when he was interviewed afterwards,	当他接受采访后,
336	listen to this, when he was interviewed afterwards,	听着,当他接受采访后,
337	he said, quote, the judges said I had a lot of integrity.	他说,引用, 法官说我有很多正直。
338	But then he added that part of his motive was, quote,	但后来他又说他的部分动机是
339	I didn't want to feel like a slime.	我不想觉得像粘液。
340	All right, what would Kant say?	好吧,康德会怎么说?
341	Go ahead.	来吧。
342	I guess it would depend on whether or not that was a marginal reason	我想这要看这是否是一个次要原因
343	or the predominant reason in why he decided to confess that he didn't actually spell the word correctly.	或者是他为什么决定承认他拼的不正确
344	Good.	不错
345	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
346	Vasco.	- 瓦斯科 - 瓦斯科 - Vasco.
347	That's very interesting.	这很有趣。
348	Is there anyone else who has a view about this?	还有谁对此有看法吗?
349	Does this show that Kant's principle is too stringent, too demanding?	这是否表明康德的原则太严格,要求太高?
350	What would Kant say about this?	康德会怎么说?
351	Yes.	对
352	I think that Kant actually says that it is the pure motivation that comes out of duty	我认为康德其实说纯粹的动机就是出于职责
353	which gives the action moral worth.	这使得行动道德价值。
354	So it's like, for example, in this case, he might have more than one motive.	所以,比如说,在这种情况下,他可能有不止一个动机.
355	He might have the motive of not feeling like a slime,	他的动机可能是感觉不像粘液
356	and he might have the motive of doing the right thing in and of itself out of duty.	而且他可能有动机做正确的事情和本身的失职。
357	And so while there's more than one motivation going on there,	所以,虽然有不止一个动机在那里,
358	it does not mean that the action is devoid of moral worth just because he has one other motive.	这并不意味着,仅仅因为他有另一个动机,这一行动就没有道德价值。
359	Because the motive which involves duty is what gives it moral worth.	因为涉及责任的动机给了它道德价值
360	Good.	不错
361	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
362	Judith.	朱迪丝
363	Well, Judith, I think that your account actually is true to Kant.	嗯,朱迪思,我认为你的帐户是真的康德。
364	It's fine to have sentiments and feelings that support doing the right thing	有支持做正确事情的感情和感觉是好的
365	provided they don't provide the reason for acting.	只要他们不提供行动的理由。
366	So I think Judith actually has mounted a pretty good defense of Kant	所以我认为朱迪思确实为康德做了很好的辩护
367	on this question of the motive of duty.	关于责任动机的问题。
368	Okay, thank you.	好的谢谢
369	Now, let's go back to the three contrasts.	现在,让我们回到三个对比点。
370	It's clear at least what Kant means when he says	康德说得很清楚
371	that for an action to have moral worth,	为了有道德价值的行动
372	it must be done for the sake of duty, not out of inclination.	这样做必须出于职责,而不是出于倾向。
373	But as we began to see last time,	但我们上次看到的时候
374	there's a connection between Kant's stringent notion of morality	康德的严格道德观念有联系
375	and his specially demanding understanding of freedom.	以及他对自由特别要求的理解。
376	And that leads us to the second contrast,	这导致我们的第二个对比,
377	the link between morality and freedom.	道德与自由之间的联系。
378	The second contrast describes two different ways that my will can be determined,	第二个对比点描述了两种不同的方式我的意志可以被确定,
379	autonomously and heteronomously.	自主和无节制。
380	And according to Kant,	康德说
381	I'm only free when my will is determined autonomously,	我只有在意志自主决定时才自由
382	which means what?	这是什么意思?
383	According to a law that I give myself.	根据我给自己的法律
384	We must be capable, if we're capable of freedom as autonomy,	我们必须有能力,如果我们能自由作为自治,
385	we must be capable of acting according not to a law that's given or imposed on us,	我们一定能够不按照法律的行为给我们或强加于我们,
386	but according to a law we give ourselves.	但根据法律,我们给自己。
387	But where could such a law come from?	但这种法律从何而来?
388	A law that we give ourselves.	我们给自己的法律。
389	Reason.	缘由.
390	If reason determines my will,	如果理智决定了我的意志
391	then the will becomes the power to choose independent of the dictates of nature	然后意志就成为了独立于自然支配的力量
392	or inclination or circumstance.	或倾向或情况。
393	So, connected with Kant's demanding notions of morality and freedom	所以,与康德要求的道德和自由观念有关
394	is a specially demanding notion of reason.	这是一个特别严格的理性概念。
395	Well, how can reason determine the will?	那么,如何理性决定遗嘱?
396	There are two ways, and this leads to the third contrast.	有两种方式,这导致了第三种对比.
397	Kant says, there are two different commands of reason.	康德说,理性有两个不同的命令.
398	In a command of reason, Kant calls an imperative.	在理智的命令中,康德称必须.
399	An imperative is simply an ought.	当务之急是应当做到的。
400	One kind of imperative, perhaps the most familiar kind,	一种必须的,也许最熟悉的,
401	is a hypothetical imperative.	这是一项假设的当务之急。
402	Hypothetical imperatives use instrumental reason.	假设的必须用工具性的理由。
403	If you want X, then do Y.	如果你想要X,那就做Y.
404	Its means ends reasoning.	它意味着结束推理。
405	If you want a good business reputation,	如果你想要一个良好的商业声誉,
406	then, don't shortchange your customers,	那么,不要缩短你的客户,
407	word may get out.	话会说出去的
408	That's a hypothetical imperative.	这是一个假设的必然。
409	If the action would be good,	如果这个动作不错的话
410	solely as a means to something else,	仅仅作为一种手段对于别的东西,
411	Kant writes the imperative as hypothetical.	康德将责任写成假设
412	If the action is represented as good in itself	如果行动本身是好的
413	and therefore as necessary for a will	因此,作为遗嘱的必要条件
414	which of itself accords with reason,	这与理同理,
415	then the imperative is categorical.	那么,当务之急是绝对的。
416	That's the difference between a categorical imperative and a hypothetical one.	这就是绝对必要和假设的区别.
417	A categorical imperative commands categorically,	绝对必要命令,
418	which just means without reference to or dependence on	仅意味着不提及或依赖
419	any further purpose.	任何进一步的目的。
420	And so you see the connection	所以,你看到了连接
421	among these three parallel contrasts.	在这三种平行对比中。
422	To be free in the sense of autonomous	自主意义上的自由
423	requires that I act	要求我行动
424	not out of a hypothetical imperative,	并非出于假设的需要,
425	but out of a categorical imperative.	但出于绝对必要
426	And so you see, by these three contrasts,	所以,你可以看到, 通过这三个对比,
427	Kant reasons his way,	康德为什么这么做
428	brings us up to his derivation	带我们去他那里
429	of the categorical imperative.	绝对必要。
430	Well, this leaves us one big question.	这给我们留了一个大问题
431	What is the categorical imperative?	有什么绝对必要?
432	What is the supreme principle of morality?	道德的最高原则是什么?
433	What does it command of us?	它命令我们做什么?
434	Kant gives three versions,	康德给出了三个版本,
435	three formulations of the categorical imperative.	绝对必要的三个提法。
436	I want to mention two,	我想提两个
437	and then see what you think of them.	然后看看你们是怎么看待他们的。
438	The first version, the first formula,	第一个版本,第一个公式,
439	he calls the formula of the universal law.	他称之为普世法的公式。
440	Act only on that maxim,	照这个准则行事
441	whereby you can at the same time will	这样你就可以同时
442	that it should become a universal law.	它应该成为普遍的法律。
443	And by maxim, what does Kant mean?	以格言来说,康德是什么意思?
444	He means a rule that explains	他的意思是一条规则来解释
445	the reason for what you're doing,	你这样做的原因
446	a principle.	一个原则。
447	For example, promise keeping.	例如,承诺遵守。
448	Suppose I need money, I need a hundred dollars,	如果我需要钱,我需要100美元
449	desperately,	绝望
450	and I know I can't pay it back anytime soon.	我知道我无法马上还钱
451	I come to you and make you a promise,	我来向你保证
452	a false promise, one I know I can't keep.	一个虚假的承诺,我知道我不能遵守。
453	Please give me a hundred dollars today,	今天请给我一百块
454	lend me the money, I will repay you next week.	借钱给我,我下周再还你
455	Is that consistent with the categorical imperative,	这是否符合绝对必要,
456	that false promise?	那个假承诺?
457	Kant says no.	康德说不行
458	And the test, the way we can determine	测试,我们如何决定
459	that the false promise is at odds	虚假的诺言是不对的
460	with the categorical imperative is,	绝对必要,
461	try to universalize it.	尝试普及它。
462	Universalize the maxim upon which you're about to act.	普及你将要行动的格言
463	If everybody made false promises when they needed money,	如果每个人都在需要钱的时候做出虚假的承诺
464	then nobody would believe those promises.	那么没有人会相信那些承诺。
465	There would be no such thing as a promise.	誓愿无此.
466	And so there would be a contradiction.	因而会出现矛盾.
467	The maxim universalized would undermine itself.	普遍化的原则会损害自己。
468	That's the test.	这就是测试。
469	That's how we can know that the false promise is wrong.	这样我们才能知道虚假承诺是错误的.
470	Well, what about the formula of the universal law?	那么,世界法的公式呢?
471	You find it persuasive?	你觉得有说服力吗?
472	What do you think?	你觉得呢?
473	Go ahead.	来吧。
474	I have a question about the difference between categoricalism	我有一个问题关于区别绝对主义
475	and a hypothesis that if you're going to act...	假设如果你要采取行动...
476	Between categorical and hypothetical imperatives.	介于绝对和假设的要务之间。
477	Right.	对
478	If you're going to act with a categorical imperative	如果你要以绝对的要求行事
479	so that the maxim doesn't undermine itself,	以免格言自毁
480	it sounds like I am going to do X because I want Y.	听起来我要做X 因为我想要Y
481	I am going to not lie in dire need	我不会躺在急需
482	because I want the world to function	因为我想让世界运转
483	in such a way that promises are kept.	以信守诺言的方式。
484	I don't want to liquidate the practice of promises.	我不想清算承诺的实践。
485	Right.	对
486	Sounds like justifying a means by an ends.	听上去是目的证明是正当的
487	It seems like an instance of consequentialist reasoning.	这似乎是一个间接推理的例子。
488	Right.	对
489	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
490	Tim.	蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆蒂姆
491	Well, Tim, John Stuart Mill agreed with you.	蒂姆约翰·斯图尔特·米尔同意你的意见
492	He made this criticism of Kant.	他这样批评康德.
493	He said if I universalize the maxim	他说,如果我普及这个格言
494	and find that the whole practice of promise keeping	并发现整个实践遵守承诺
495	would be destroyed if universalized,	如果普遍化,将销毁,
496	I must be appealing somehow to consequences	我一定是在呼吁后果
497	if that's the reason not to tell a false promise.	如果这就是不告诉假承诺的原因
498	So John Stuart Mill agreed with that criticism against Kant.	因此约翰·斯图亚特·米尔(John Stuart Mill)同意对康德的批评.
499	But John Stuart Mill was wrong.	但约翰·斯图尔特·米尔错了
500	You're in good company though.	不过你是好人
501	You're in good company, Tim.	你关系很好,蒂姆
502	Kant has often read, as Tim just read him,	康德经常读, 因为蒂姆刚刚读到他,
503	as appealing to consequences.	对后果有吸引力。
504	The world would be worse off if everybody lied	如果大家都撒谎世界会更糟
505	because then no one could rely on anybody else's word.	因为没有人能相信别人的话
506	Therefore, you shouldn't lie.	因此,你不应该撒谎。
507	That's not what Kant is saying exactly.	康德不是这么说的
508	Although it's easy to interpret him as saying that.	虽然他很容易被诠释为这么说的.
509	I think what he's saying is that this is the test.	我想他说的是这是测试
510	This is the test of whether the maxim corresponds	这是对格言是否对应的检验
511	with the categorical imperative.	绝对必要。
512	It isn't exactly the reason.	这不是原因
513	It's not the reason.	这不是原因。
514	The reason you should universalize to test your maxim	你应该普及去测试你的格言
515	is to see whether you are privileging	来看看你是否在倾斜
516	your particular needs and desires over everybody else's.	你对别人的特殊需求和欲望
517	It's a way of pointing to this feature,	这是一种指向这个特征的方法,
518	this demand of the categorical imperative	绝对必要的要求
519	that the reasons for your actions shouldn't depend	你行动的原因不应该取决于
520	for their justification on your interests,	为了你们的利益,
521	your needs, your special circumstances	你的需求,你的特殊情况
522	being more important than somebody else's.	比别人更重要
523	That, I think, is the moral intuition	我认为,这是道德直觉
524	lying behind the universalization test.	站在普遍性测试的背后。
525	So let me spell out the second,	让我说第二句话
526	Kant's second version of the categorical imperative,	康德的第二个版本绝对必要,
527	perhaps in a way that's more intuitively accessible	也许用一种更直观的方式
528	than the formula of universal law.	而不是普遍法的公式。
529	It's the formula of humanity as an end.	是以人道为终.
530	Kant introduces the second version	康德介绍第二个版本
531	of the categorical imperative	绝对必要
532	with the following line of argument.	以下列论据为准。
533	We can't base the categorical imperative	我们不能把绝对必要作为基础
534	on any particular interests, purposes or ends.	任何特定利益、目的或目的。
535	Because then it would be only relative	因为那样只会是相对的
536	to the person whose ends they were.	他们的目的。
537	But suppose there were something	但假设有什么东西
538	whose existence has in itself	它的存在本身
539	an absolute value, an end in itself,	绝对价值,目的本身,
540	then in it and in it alone	然后独自在其中,
541	would there be the ground	有没有地面
542	of a possible categorical imperative.	可能绝对必要。
543	Well, what is there that we can think of	那么,有什么我们可以想到
544	as having its end in itself?	作为它的目的本身?
545	Kant's answer is this.	康德的回答是这个.
546	I say that man, and in general every rational being,	我说那个人, 总的来说,每个理性的存在,
547	exists as an end in himself,	存在本身是目的,
548	not merely as a means for arbitrary use	不仅仅是作为任意使用的手段
549	by this or that will.	由这个或那个意志。
550	And here Kant distinguishes	而这里康德的区别
551	between persons on the one hand	人与人之间的关系
552	and things on the other.	还有别的
553	Rational beings are persons.	理性众生是众生.
554	They don't just have a relative value for us,	他们不只是对我们有相对价值
555	but if anything has, they have an absolute value,	但是如果有的话他们有绝对的价值
556	an intrinsic value.	一个内在价值。
557	That is, rational beings have dignity.	也就是说,理性的人有尊严。
558	They're worthy of reverence and respect.	他们值得尊敬和尊重。
559	This line of reasoning leads Kant	这条思路引领康德
560	to the second formulation	对第二种表述
561	of the categorical imperative, which is this.	绝对必要,这就是。
562	Act in such a way that you always treat humanity,	以你对待人类的方式行事
563	whether in your own person	无论是本人
564	or in the person of any other,	或以任何其他人的名义,
565	never simply as a means,	绝不只是一种手段,
566	but always at the same time as an end.	但总是同时结束。
567	So that's the formula of humanity as an end.	这就是人类的结局
568	The idea that human beings, as rational beings,	人类作为理性的生物
569	are ends in themselves,	这是目的本身,
570	not open to use,	不开放使用,
571	merely as a means.	仅仅作为一种手段。
572	When I make a false promise to you,	当我对你做出虚假承诺时,
573	I'm using you as a means to my ends,	我利用你来达到我的目的
574	to my desire for the hundred dollars.	为了我对百元的渴望
575	And so I'm failing to respect you.	所以我没有尊重你
576	I'm failing to respect your dignity.	我没尊重你的尊严
577	I'm manipulating you.	我在操纵你
578	Now consider the example	现在想想这个例子
579	of the duty against suicide.	对自杀的责任。
580	Murder and suicide	谋杀和自杀
581	are at odds with the categorical imperative.	与绝对必要不符。
582	Why?	为什么?
583	If I murder someone,	如果我杀了人
584	I'm taking their life for some purpose,	我为了某种目的夺走他们的性命
585	either because I'm a hired killer	要么是因为我是个雇佣杀手
586	or I'm in the throes of some great anger or passion.	或者我陷入了某种愤怒或激情的折磨之中
587	Well, I have some interest, some purpose	我有点兴趣,有些目的
588	that's particular for the sake of which I'm using them	特别是为了我用它们
589	as a means.	作为手段。
590	Murder violates the categorical imperative.	谋杀违反了绝对必要。
591	For Kant, morally speaking,	对康德来说,道德上
592	suicide is on a par with murder.	自杀等同于谋杀
593	It's on a par with murder because what we violate	这和谋杀是等同的,因为我们违反了
594	when we take a life,	当我们夺去生命时,
595	when we take someone's life,	当我们夺走某人的生命,
596	ours or somebody else's,	我们或别人的,
597	we use that person,	我们利用那个人,
598	we use a rational being,	我们利用理性的存在
599	we use humanity as a means.	我们利用人类作为手段。
600	And so we fail to respect humanity as an end.	因此,我们不尊重人道作为目的。
601	And that capacity for reason,	而这种能力是有原因的,
602	that humanity that commands respect,	受人尊重的人类,
603	that is the ground of dignity,	这是尊严的基础,
604	that humanity, that capacity for reason,	人性理性的能力
605	resides undifferentiated in all of us.	在我们所有人中都是没有区别的。
606	And so I violate that dignity.	所以我违反了那个尊严。
607	In my own person, if I commit suicide,	就我个人而言如果我自杀了
608	and in murder, if I take somebody else's life,	在谋杀中如果我夺走别人的性命
609	from a moral point of view,	从道德角度来看,
610	they're the same.	他们是一样的。
611	And the reason they're the same	和他们一样的原因
612	has to do with the universal character	与普遍性有关
613	and ground of the moral law.	和道德法的基础。
614	The reason that we have to respect	我们必须尊重的原因
615	the dignity of other people	人的尊严
616	has not to do with anything in particular about them.	与他们无关
617	And so respect, Kantian respect,	敬礼,康德敬礼
618	is unlike love in this way.	与爱情不同
619	It's unlike sympathy.	这不像同情心
620	It's unlike solidarity or fellow feeling	这不像是团结或朋友的感觉
621	or altruism.	或者利他主义。
622	Because love and those other particular virtues	因为爱情和其他的美德
623	or reasons for caring about other people	或照顾他人的理由
624	have to do with who they are in particular.	和他们的身份有关
625	But respect for Kant.	但尊重康德.
626	Respect is respect for humanity,	尊重就是尊重人类
627	which is universal,	这是普遍的,
628	for a rational capacity which is universal.	为了一个普遍合理的能力。
629	And that's why violating it, in my own case,	这就是为什么违反它, 在我个人的情况下,
630	is as objectionable as violating it	和违反它一样令人反对
631	in the case of any other.	在任何其他情况下。
632	Questions or objections?	问题还是反对?
633	Go ahead.	来吧。
634	I guess I'm somewhat worried about Kant's statement	我有点担心康德的话
635	that you cannot use a person as a means	你无法利用一个人作为手段
636	because every person is an end in and of themselves.	因为每个人都是终极目标
637	Because it seems that every day,	因为似乎每天都
638	in order to get something accomplished for that day,	为了在那天完成一些事情
639	I must use myself as a means to some end.	我必须用自己来达到某种目的。
640	And I must use the people around me	我必须用周围的人
641	as a means to some end as well.	作为达到某种目的的手段
642	For instance, suppose that	例如,假设
643	I want to do well in a class	我想在课堂上做得很好
644	and I have to write a paper.	我必须写一篇论文。
645	I have to use myself as a means to write the paper.	我得用自己来写论文
646	Suppose I want to buy something, food.	如果我想买点东西,食物。
647	I must go to the store and use the person	我必须去商店用那个人
648	working behind the counter as a means	在柜台后面工作
649	for me to purchase my food.	我买我的食物。
650	Right.	对
651	That's true.	没错
652	You do.	没错
653	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
654	Patrick.	派屈克派屈克派屈克
655	Patrick, you're not doing anything wrong.	帕特里克你没做错什么
656	You're not violating the categorical imperative	你没违反绝对的要求
657	when you use other people as means.	以他人为手段
658	That's not objectionable provided	说得没错
659	when we deal with other people	当我们和别人打交道时
660	for the sake of advancing our projects	为了推进我们的项目
661	and purposes and interests,	宗旨和利益,
662	which we all do,	我们都这样做,
663	provided we treat them in a way	只要我们用某种方式对待他们
664	that is consistent with respect for their dignity.	这符合尊重他们的尊严。
665	And what it means to respect them	尊重他们意味着什么
666	is given by the categorical imperative.	绝对必要。
667	Are you persuaded?	你被说服了吗?
668	Do you think that Kant has given	你认为康德给了我们
669	a compelling account, a persuasive account	一个令人信服的陈述,一个有说服力的陈述,
670	of the supreme principle of morality?	道德的最高原则?
671	Reread the groundwork	重读基础
672	and we'll try to answer that question next time.	下次我们会试着回答这个问题
673	Join the conversation.	加入对话。
674	Take a pop quiz.	做个流行测验
675	Watch lectures you've missed and learn a lot more.	看着你错过的讲座学到更多
676	请访问justiceharvard.org.
677	It's the right thing to do.	谓之正法.
678	Funding for this program is provided by...	本方案的经费由.
679	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。

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P11 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p11 10. 10.好公民 (P11)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p11 10. 10.好公民 (P11)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 54:46

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:08	We turn to Aristotle	我们转向亚里士多德
0:13	after examining theories,	在研究理论后,
0:20	modern theories of justice,	现代正义理论,
0:24	that try to detach	试图分离
0:28	considerations of justice and rights from questions of moral desert and virtue.	从道德和美德的角度考虑正义和权利。
0:34	Aristotle	亚里士多德
0:37	disagrees with Kant and Rawls.	与康德和罗尔斯意见不一.
0:42	Aristotle argues that justice is a matter of giving people what they deserve.	亚里士多德认为,正义是给予人们应得的.
0:49	And the central idea	和中心思想
0:51	of Aristotle's theory of justice	亚里士多德的正义理论

展开字幕全文（1099 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	We turn to Aristotle	我们转向亚里士多德
2	after examining theories,	在研究理论后,
3	modern theories of justice,	现代正义理论,
4	that try to detach	试图分离
5	considerations of justice and rights from questions of moral desert and virtue.	从道德和美德的角度考虑正义和权利。
6	Aristotle	亚里士多德
7	disagrees with Kant and Rawls.	与康德和罗尔斯意见不一.
8	Aristotle argues that justice is a matter of giving people what they deserve.	亚里士多德认为,正义是给予人们应得的.
9	And the central idea	和中心思想
10	of Aristotle's theory of justice	亚里士多德的正义理论
11	is that	这是
12	in reasoning about justice and rights	司法与权利的推理
13	we have unavoidably	我们有不可避免
14	to reason about	以解释
15	the purpose or the end or the kilos	目的或终点或公斤
16	of social practices and institutions.	社会做法和机构。
17	Yes, justice requires giving equal things to equal persons, but the question immediately arises in any debate about justice,	是的,正义要求把平等的东西给予平等的人,但任何关于正义的辩论中立即出现这个问题,
18	equal in what respect?	在什么方面平等?
19	And Aristotle says we	亚里士多德说
20	need to fill in the answer to that question	需要填写对该问题的答复
21	by looking	通过查找
22	to the characteristic end	到特性端
23	or the essential nature or the purpose	或基本性质或目的
24	of the thing we're distributing.	我们分发的东西。
25	And so we discussed Aristotle's example of flutes, who should get the best flutes	于是我们讨论了亚里士多德的笛子例子,谁应该得到最好的笛子
26	and Aristotle's answer was the best flute players.	亚里士多德的回答是最好的笛手
27	The best flute players should get the best flute	最好的笛手应该有最好的笛子
28	because that's a way of honoring	因为那是一种尊重的方式
29	the excellence	卓越
30	of flute playing.	吹着笛子
31	It's a way of rewarding the virtue	这是奖励功德的方法
32	of the great flute player.	伟大的笛手。
33	What's interesting though,	有趣的是,虽然,
34	and this is what we're going to explore today,	这就是我们今天要探索的
35	is that	这是
36	it's not quite so easy to dispense with teleological reasoning	排除心灵推理并不容易
37	when we're thinking about	当我们在想
38	social institutions	社会机构
39	and political practices.	政治实践。
40	In general it's hard to do without teleology when we're thinking about	一般来说,我们思考的时候,没有心灵感应很难做到
41	ethics, justice,	道德、正义、
42	and moral argument.	和道德争论。
43	At least that's Aristotle's claim,	至少这是亚里士多德的说法,
44	and I would like to bring out the force in Aristotle's claim by considering	我想把亚里士多德的主张中的力量找出来
45	two examples.	两个例子。
46	One is an example that Aristotle spends quite a bit of	一个是亚里士多德花了很多钱
47	time discussing, the case of politics,	时间讨论,政治案例,
48	how should political offices and honors, how should political rule be distributed.	如何分配政治职务和荣誉,如何分配政治统治。
49	The second example	第二个例子
50	is a contemporary	是一个当代
51	debate	辩论
52	about golf	关于高尔夫球
53	and whether	是否为
54	the Professional Golfers Association	高尔夫专业协会
55	should be required to allow Casey Martin,	应该要求允许凯西·马丁
56	a golfer with a disability,	有残疾的高尔夫球员,
57	to ride in a golf cart.	骑高尔夫车。
58	Both cases	两种情况
59	bring out	出来
60	a further feature	另一个特征
61	of Aristotle's teleological way of thinking about justice.	亚里士多德对正义的思考方式
62	And that is	这就是
63	that when we attend to the telos or the purpose,	当我们在看电视时,
64	sometimes	有时候
65	we disagree and argue about what the purpose	我们不同意,争论什么目的
66	of a social practice	社会实践
67	really consists in, and when we have those disagreements,	真正包括, 当我们有这些分歧,
68	part of what's at stake in those disagreements	这些分歧的利害关系
69	is not just who will get what,	不只是谁会得到什么,
70	not just a distributive question, but also	不仅是一个分配问题,而且
71	an honorific question.	一个荣誉的问题。
72	What qualities,	什么样的品质,
73	what excellences	什么样的优异
74	of persons	个人资料
75	will be honored?	将荣耀?
76	Debates about purpose and telos	关于目的和主题的辩论
77	are often simultaneously	经常同时出现
78	debates about honor.	关于荣誉的辩论。
79	Now let's see how that works	现在让我们来看看如何运作
80	in the case of Aristotle's account	亚里士多德的账户
81	of politics.	对政治的思考
82	When we discuss distributive justice these days,	当我们讨论分配正义这些天,
83	we're mainly concerned with the distribution of income and wealth and opportunity.	我们主要关心收入和财富与机会的分配。
84	Aristotle took distributive justice	亚里士多德接受了分配正义
85	to be mainly not about income and wealth,	与收入和财富无关
86	but about offices and honors.	但关于办公室和荣誉。
87	Who should have the right to rule?	谁应该有权统治?
88	Who should be a citizen?	谁是公民?
89	How should political authority be distributed?	政治权威应如何分配?
90	Those were his questions.	这是他的问题。
91	How did he go about answering those questions?	他怎么回答这些问题的?
92	Well, in line with his	嗯,根据他的
93	teleological account of justice,	司法学的理论,
94	Aristotle argues that	亚里士多德认为:
95	to know how political authority should be distributed,	了解应如何分配政治权力,
96	we have first to inquire into the	我们首先要调查
97	purpose, the point,	目的,要点,
98	the telos of politics.	政治的特质。
99	So what is politics	政治是怎样的
100	about?	关于?
101	And how does this help us decide who should rule?	这如何帮助我们决定谁应该统治?
102	Well, for Aristotle, the answer to that question is	对亚里士多德来说这个问题的答案是
103	politics is about	政治问题
104	forming character,	组成字符,
105	forming good character.	形成良好的性格。
106	It's about cultivating the virtue of citizens.	而是培养公民的美德
107	It's about the good life.	是为善生.
108	The end of the state, the end of the political community,	国灭,政社灭.
109	he tells us in book three of the politics.	他在第三本政治书里告诉我们
110	It's not mere life.	这不仅仅是生活。
111	It's not economic exchange only.	这不仅仅是经济交流。
112	It's not security only.	这不仅仅是安全。
113	It's realizing the good life.	即成就善根众生.
114	That's what politics is for, according to Aristotle.	根据亚里士多德的说法,这就是政治的目的.
115	Now you might worry about this.	现在你可能会担心这个
116	You might say, well, maybe this shows us why those	你可能会说,也许这告诉我们为什么那些
117	modern theorists of justice	现代司法理论家
118	and of politics are right.	政治是正确的。
119	Because remember, for Kant and for Rawls,	因为记住,对于康德和罗尔斯,
120	the point of politics is not to shape	政治的关键不是塑造
121	the moral character of citizens.	公民的道德品质。
122	It's not to make us good.	这不是要让我们好。
123	It's to respect our freedom, to choose our goods,	这是尊重我们的自由, 选择我们的商品,
124	our values, our ends,	我们的价值观,我们的目的,
125	consistent with a similar liberty for others.	与其他人的类似自由相一致。
126	Aristotle disagrees.	亚里士多德不同意.
127	Any polis, which is truly so called,	任何波利斯,这是真正所谓的,
128	and is not merely one in name, must devote itself to the end of encouraging	不仅仅是名义上的,必须致力于鼓励
129	goodness.	天呐
130	Otherwise, political association sinks into a mere alliance.	否则,政治结社就会陷入单纯的联盟。
131	Law becomes a mere covenant,	法律变成一个简单的契约,
132	a guarantor of men's rights against one another,	保证人的权利,
133	instead of being, as it should be, a way of life,	而不是应该成为一种生活方式,
134	such as will make the members of a polis good and just.	使波利斯的信徒们得享幸福和正义。
135	That's Aristotle's view.	这就是亚里士多德的观点.
136	A polis is not an association	警察不是协会
137	for residents on a common site,	供常住居民使用,
138	or for the sake of preventing mutual injustice and easing exchange,	或为了防止相互不公正和放松交流,
139	Aristotle writes.	亚里士多德写道.
140	The end and purpose of a polis is the good life,	一个大都会的终结和目的是美好的生活,
141	and the institutions of social life are means to that end.	社会生活体制是实现这一目标的手段。
142	Now, if that's the purpose of politics,	如果这就是政治的目的
143	of the polis,	是诸侯的后裔,
144	then Aristotle says we can derive from that	亚里士多德说我们可以从中得来
145	the principles of distributive justice,	分配公正原则,
146	the principles that tell us who should have the greatest say,	原则告诉我们谁应该有最大的发言权,
147	who should have the greatest measure of political authority.	他们应该拥有最大程度的政治权威。
148	And what's his answer to that question?	他对此问题的答案是什么?
149	Well, those who contribute the most	那些贡献最大的人
150	to an association of this character,	致此性质之社团,
151	namely an association that aims at the good,	即一个以福利为目的的协会,
152	should have a greater share in political rule,	在政治统治中应有更大的份额,
153	and in the honors of the polis.	和荣誉的波利斯。
154	And the reason is, they are in a position	原因是,他们处于一个位置
155	to contribute most	贡献最大
156	to what political community is essentially about.	政治团体的本质。
157	Well, so you can see the link that he draws	这样你就能看到他画的链接
158	between the principle of distribution for citizenship	国籍分配原则之间
159	and political authority,	和政治权威,
160	and the purpose of politics.	还有政治的目的
161	But why, you'll quickly ask,	但为什么,你会很快问,
162	why does he claim that political life,	为什么他声称政治生活,
163	participation in politics is somehow essential	参政是至关紧要的
164	to living a good life?	过上美好的生活?
165	Why isn't it possible	为什么不可能呢?
166	for people to live perfectly good lives,	为了人们过上完美的生活,
167	decent lives, moral lives,	体面的生活,道德生活,
168	without participating in politics?	不参与政治?
169	Well, he gives two answers to that question.	他给出了两个答案
170	He gives a partial answer, a preliminary answer,	他给出了部分答案初步答案
171	in book one of the politics,	在书中政治之一,
172	where he tells us that only	他只告诉我们
173	by living in a polis and participating in politics	生活在大都会并参与政治
174	do we fully realize our nature	我们是否充分意识到我们的本性
175	as human beings.	作为人类。
176	Human beings are by nature	人类是天生的
177	meant to live in a polis.	意为生活在大都会。
178	Why?	为什么?
179	It's only in political life	只有在政治生活中
180	that we can actually exercise	我们实际上可以锻炼
181	our distinctly human capacity for language,	我们独特的人的语言能力,
182	which Aristotle understands as this capacity	亚里士多德认为这种能力
183	to deliberate about right and wrong,	考虑对错,
184	the just and the unjust.	正义者和不义者。
185	And so Aristotle writes in book one of the politics	所以亚里士多德在书中写了一篇政治
186	that the polis, the political community,	警察,政治界,
187	exists by nature and is prior to the individual.	(b) 自然存在,而且发生在个人之前。
188	Not prior in time,	之前没有
189	but prior in its purpose.	但它在目的上是先发制人
190	Human beings are not self-sufficient,	人不能自给自足,
191	living by themselves,	独自生活,
192	outside a political community.	在政治团体之外
193	A man who is isolated, who is unable to share	一个被孤立,无法分享的人
194	in the benefits of political association,	政治结社的好处,
195	or who has no need to share	或不需要分享的人
196	because he's already self-sufficient,	因为他已经自给自足了
197	such a person must be either a beast or a god.	这种人必须是野兽还是神
198	So we only fully realize our nature.	因此,我们只充分认识到我们的本性。
199	We only fully unfold our human capacities	我们只是充分展示我们的人的能力
200	when we exercise our faculty of language,	当我们锻炼我们的语言能力,
201	which means when we deliberate	这意味着当我们考虑
202	with our fellow citizens about	我们的同胞们
203	good and evil, right and wrong,	善恶,对与错,
204	just and the unjust.	正义和不公正的人。
205	But why can we only exercise	但为什么我们只能锻炼
206	our capacity for language?	我们的语言能力?
207	In political community, you might ask.	在政治界,你可能会问。
208	Aristotle gives a second part,	亚里士多德给出了第二部分,
209	a fuller part of his answer	更详尽的回答
210	in the Nicomachean Ethics, an excerpt of which	在尼科马切安伦理学中,摘录
211	we have among the readings.	我们在读数中都有
212	And there he explains	他在那里解释
213	that political deliberation,	那个政治讨论,
214	living the life of a citizen,	过着公民的生活,
215	ruling and being ruled in turn,	判决和判决,
216	sharing and rule, all of this	分享和统治,这一切
217	is necessary to virtue.	是为了美德
218	Aristotle defines happiness	亚里士多德定义幸福
219	not as maximizing the balance of pleasure over pain,	而不是达到快乐和痛苦的平衡
220	but as an activity,	但作为一种活动,
221	an activity of the soul	灵魂活动
222	in accordance with virtue.	根据美德。
223	And he says that every student of politics	他说每个政治学生
224	must study the soul,	必须研究灵魂,
225	because shaping the soul is one of the objects	因为塑造灵魂是其中之一
226	of legislation in a good city.	在一个好城市的立法。
227	But why is it necessary to live in a good city	但为什么必须住在一个好城市
228	in order to live a virtuous life?	为了过上善良的生活吗?
229	Why can't we just learn	为什么我们不能只是学习
230	good moral principles at home,	家里的道德原则
231	or in a philosophy class, or from a book,	或在哲学课上,或从一本书,
232	live according to those principles, those rules,	根据这些原则和规则生活
233	those precepts, and leave it at that?	那些戒律,就留在那里吗?
234	Aristotle says, virtue isn't acquired that way.	亚里士多德说美德不是那样获得的
235	Virtue is only something	道德只是东西
236	we can acquire by practicing,	我们可以通过练习获得,
237	by exercising the virtues.	通过行使美德。
238	It's the kind of thing we can only learn by doing.	这是那种我们只能靠做来学的东西.
239	It doesn't come from book learning.	不从书学.
240	In this respect,	在这方面,
241	it's like flute playing.	这就像吹笛子。
242	You couldn't learn	你学不到的
243	how to play a musical instrument well	如何弹好乐器
244	just by reading a book about it.	只读一本书
245	You have to practice, and you have to listen to other	你必须练习,你必须听别人
246	accomplished flute players.	完成长笛演奏者。
247	There are other practices and skills of this type.	还有其他这类做法和技能。
248	Cooking.	煮饭.
249	There are cookbooks,	有厨书,
250	but no great chef ever learns how to cook	但没有一位伟大的厨师会做饭
251	by reading a cookbook, only.	只读一本厨书
252	It's the kind of thing you only learn by doing.	这是那种你只能靠做来学的东西.
253	Joke telling is probably another example of this kind.	说笑是另一个例子
254	No great comedian learns to be a comedian	没有一个伟大的喜剧演员会学会做喜剧演员
255	just by reading a book on the principles of comedy.	只是读了一本关于喜剧原则的书
256	It wouldn't work.	没用的
257	Why not?	为什么不呢?
258	What do joke telling and cooking	开什么玩笑?
259	and playing a musical instrument have in common	演奏乐器是共同的
260	such that we can't learn them just by	这样我们就不能仅仅通过
261	grasping a precept or a rule	掌握规则或规则
262	that we might learn from a book or a lecture?	以便我们从一本书或一个讲座中学习吗?
263	What they have in common is that they are all concerned with	他们的共同点是他们都关心
264	getting the hang of it, but also	获得它,但也
265	what is it we get the hang of when we learn how to cook	当我们学会烹饪时,我们得到了什么?
266	or play a musical instrument or tell jokes well?	或者玩乐器或者说笑话?
267	Discerning particulars,	令人沮丧的细节,
268	particular features of a situation,	情况的特殊性,
269	and no rule, no precept,	没有规则,没有规则,
270	could tell the comedian or the cook	可以告诉喜剧演员或厨师
271	or the great musician	还是伟大的音乐家
272	how to get in the habit of,	如何进入习惯,
273	the practice of	惯例
274	discerning the particular features	了解具体特征
275	of a situation.	一个情况。
276	Aristotle says virtue is	亚里士多德说美德
277	that way too.	那样也行
278	Now, how does this connect to politics?	这与政治有什么联系?
279	The only way we can acquire	我们能得到的唯一方法
280	the virtues that constitute the good life	构成美好生活的美德
281	is to exercise	锻炼
282	the virtues to have certain habits inculcated in us	给我们灌输某些习惯的美德
283	and then	接着
284	to engage in the practice of deliberating with citizens	参与与公民讨论的做法
285	about the nature of the good.	关于善的本质。
286	That's what politics is ultimately about.	这才是政治的最终目的.
287	The acquisition of civic virtue	获得公民美德
288	of this capacity to deliberate	是否具有这种审议能力
289	among equals,	和平等者,
290	that's something we couldn't get living a life alone	那是我们无法独自生活的事情
291	outside of politics.	在政治之外,
292	And so, that's why in order to realize our nature	所以,这就是为什么为了实现我们的本性
293	we have to engage in politics.	我们必须参与政治。
294	And that's why those who are greatest in civic virtue,	这就是为什么那些最伟大的公民美德,
295	就像Pericles一样,是那些
296	who properly have the greatest measure	他们有最大的尺度
297	of offices and honors.	职务和荣誉。
298	So, the argument about the distribution	因此,关于分配的争论
299	of offices and honors has this teleological character	官职和荣誉具有这种使命性
300	but also an honorific dimension.	同时也是一个荣誉的层面。
301	Because part of the point of politics is to honor	因为政治的一点就是尊重
302	像Pericles这样的人
303	不只是Pericles应该
304	have the dominant say	有主言权
305	because he has the best judgment and that will lead	因为他有最好的判断,那将导致
306	to the best outcomes, to the best consequences	最佳结果和最佳后果
307	for the citizens.	给市民
308	That's true.	没错
309	And that's important.	这很重要。
310	But a further reason people like Pericles	但另一个原因,人们喜欢Pericles
311	should have the greatest measure	应该有最大的尺度
312	of offices and honors and political authority and sway	职务和荣誉以及政治权威和影响力
313	in the polis is that part of the point of politics	在大都会是政治的一部分
314	is to single out and honor	单挑和荣誉
315	those who possess the relevant virtue, in this case	拥有相关美德的人,在这种情况下
316	civic virtue, civic excellence, practical wisdom	公民美德、公民优秀、实用智慧
317	to the fullest extent.	尽其所能。
318	That's the honorific dimension bound up with Aristotle's	那是亚里士多德的荣誉维度
319	account of politics.	政治观点。
320	Here's an example that shows	举个例子
321	the link in a contemporary	在当代中的联系
322	controversy, the link	争议, 链接
323	to which Aristotle draws our attention between	亚里士多德提请我们注意
324	arguments about justice and rights	关于司法和权利的论点
325	on the one hand and figuring out the	一边想着
326	telos or the purpose of a social practice on the other.	或社会实践的目的。
327	Not only that,	不仅如此,
328	the case of Casey Martin and his golf cart	凯西・马丁和他的高尔夫球车的案子
329	also brings out the link between	也带来了联系
330	debates about what the purpose	关于目的的辩论
331	of a social practice or a game	社会实践或游戏
332	is on the one hand	一方面
333	and the question of what qualities should be honored	以及应当尊重哪些品质的问题
334	on the other.	在另一个。
335	The link between teleology and honor	电传学与荣誉之间的联系
336	based principles of	二、基于原则的
337	distributive justice.	分配正义。
338	Who was Casey Martin?	凯西・马丁是谁?
339	Well, Casey Martin is a very good golfer	凯西・马丁是个很好的高尔夫球手
340	able to compete at the highest levels of golf	能在最高水平的高尔夫球比赛
341	but for one thing,	但有一点,
342	he has a rare circulatory problem	他有一个罕见的循环问题
343	in his leg that makes it very difficult for him to walk	他的腿上很难走路
344	not only difficult but dangerous	不仅困难而且危险
345	and so he asked the PGA	所以他问PGA
346	which governs the Pro Tour in golf	管理高尔夫球巡回赛
347	to be able to use a golf cart	能够使用高尔夫球车
348	when he competed in professional	当他与众竞争的时候,
349	tournaments.	比赛
350	PGA说不行
351	and he sued under the American for Disabilities Act	他根据《美国残疾人法》起诉
352	he sued in a case that went	他起诉了一起案子
353	all the way to the United States Supreme Court.	一直到美国最高法院
354	The question the Supreme Court had to answer	最高法院必须回答的问题
355	was, does	曾经,对
356	Casey Martin have a right	凯西・马丁有权利
357	that the PGA provide him, allow him	PGA提供他,允许他
358	to use a golf cart on the Tour or not?	要不要在巡回赛上用高尔夫球车?
359	How many here think that	这里有多少人这么认为
360	from a moral point of view	从道德角度
361	Casey Martin should	凯西・马丁应该
362	have a right to use a golf cart	有权使用高尔夫球车
363	and how many think that he should not	有多少人认为他不该
364	have a right to a golf cart in the tournaments?	在锦标赛上有高尔夫球车的权利吗?
365	So the majority are sympathetic to	所以大多数人都同情
366	Casey Martin's right though a substantial	凯西・马丁说得对,虽然是一个实质性的
367	minority disagree.	少数派不同意。
368	Let's first hear from those of you	我们先听听你们
369	who would rule against Casey Martin.	谁会统治凯西・马丁。
370	Why would you not say that the PGA must	你为什么不说PGA必须
371	give him a golf cart?	给他一个高尔夫球车?
372	Yes.	对
373	Since the inception of golf	自高尔夫球诞生以来
374	because it's been part of the sport	因为这是运动的一部分
375	it's now intrinsically part of golf	现在它本来就是高尔夫的一部分
376	walking the course and thus because it's intrinsic to golf	在赛道上行走因为它是高尔夫的内在
377	I'd argue that not being able to walk the course	我主张不能走这条路
378	it's just not being able to perform an aspect of the sport	只是不能做运动的某个方面
379	which is necessary to performing at a professional level.	这是在专业一级工作所必需的。
380	Good.	不错
381	Stay there for a minute.	留在那里一分钟。
382	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
383	Tommy.	汤米
384	Are you a golfer by the way, Tom?	你是高尔夫球员吗,汤姆?
385	Not so much, but yeah, a little bit.	不多,但有点
386	Are there any golfers here,	这里有高尔夫球手吗?
387	I mean real golfers?	我的意思是真正的高尔夫球手?
388	Thank you, Professor.	谢谢你,教授
389	No, no.	没有,没有。
390	I'm just taking	我只是带
391	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}你说的对
392	Who are there?	是谁?
393	Is there someone here on the golf team?	高尔夫球队里有人吗?
394	Yes?	是吗?
395	Tell us your name	告诉我们你的名字
396	and tell us what you think.	告诉我们你的想法
397	My name is Michael and	我叫迈克尔
398	I usually take a cart so	我通常坐推车这样
399	probably the wrong person to ask.	可能问错人了
400	Is that why your hand went up slowly?	这就是为什么你的手慢慢地上升?
401	Yes.	对
402	But Tom is saying, let's	但汤姆说,我们
403	based at the professional level	专业人员职等
404	walking the course is essential to the game.	走路对比赛至关重要
405	Do you agree?	你同意吗?
406	I would, yes.	我会,是的。
407	You do?	是吗?
408	Then why do you take a cart?	那你为什么要坐推车?
409	And you call yourself a golfer?	你说自己是高尔夫球手?
410	No, no, no, no.	释曰.
411	I'm kidding.	我开玩笑的
412	What do you say to that?	你说呢?
413	When I have walked the course	当我走过这条路
414	it does add tremendously to the game.	这确实给游戏增添了巨大的活力。
415	Makes it a lot harder.	更难了
416	It really does.	确实
417	Yeah?	是吗?
418	Alright, let's hear	好吧,让我们听听
419	Michael and Tom stay there.	迈克尔和汤姆呆在那里。
420	Let's hear	让我们听听
421	from people who	从人谁
422	say that he should have a right to a golf cart.	说他应该有权用高尔夫车
423	Why?	为什么?
424	Who's prepared to defend that position?	谁准备捍卫这个位置?
425	Yes?	是吗?
426	Well, I think the PGA should definitely be required to give him a golf cart	我认为PGA绝对需要给他一辆高尔夫球车
427	because they argue in the decision that it's not just a matter of	因为他们在决定中争辩这不仅仅是一个问题
428	he's not experiencing fatigue for him.	他没有感到疲劳。
429	He's still walking about a mile.	他还在走一英里
430	The cart can't go everywhere with him.	车不能随他而去.
431	And in that mile he's still	在那一英里内,他仍然
432	experiencing more fatigue and pain than a healthy player would.	比健康球员更疲惫和痛苦
433	So it's not as if you're moving the disadvantage.	所以,这不像你移动的劣势。
434	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
435	Reva(英语:Reva).
436	Reva, what do you say to Tom's point that walking the course	Reva,你对汤姆说走这条路怎么说?
437	is essential to the game?	对游戏至关重要吗?
438	It would be as if	这就像
439	a disabled player could play in the	禁用玩家可以在
440	NBA but not have to	NBA 但不是必须
441	run up and down the court.	跑上跑下宫廷。
442	Well, I think there are two responses to that.	嗯,我想有两个答案。
443	First, I don't think it's	首先,我不认为
444	essential to the game because most golfers who play	因为大多数打高尔夫球的人
445	particularly recreationally don't play with a cart.	特别是娱乐上不要玩马车。
446	Like Michael.	像迈克尔。
447	And on several of the tours you can play with a cart.	在几次巡演中,你可以玩一个推车。
448	On the Senior PGA Tour, on the Nike Tour,	在高级PGA巡回赛, 在耐克巡回赛,
449	in a lot of the college events.	在很多大学的活动。
450	And those events are just as competitive	赛事也一样有竞争力
451	and just as high level as the PGA Tour.	和PGA巡回赛一样高
452	So really it's just a matter	所以,真的,这只是一个问题
453	of selective reasoning if you argue that it's	有选择性的推理如果你认为这是
454	an important part of the sport.	运动的重要组成部分。
455	But even if it is,	但是,即使这是,
456	he still does have to walk.	他还是得走路
457	He still plays golf standing up.	他还是站着打高尔夫
458	It's not as if he's playing golf from a wheelchair.	他又不是在坐轮椅打高尔夫
459	Who else?	还有谁?
460	Go ahead.	来吧。
461	I think the whole point of a competition is that it calls out the best	我认为比赛的要点是它呼唤出最好的
462	from the second best or from the third best.	从第二好或从第三好。
463	And when we're talking about the	当我们谈论
464	national level, we're talking about the highest of the highest.	国家层面,我们指的是最高层中的最高层.
465	And I think what they're arguing about here	我想他们在这里争论什么
466	is the purpose of competition.	是竞争的目的。
467	And I think in the sake of competition	我想为了竞争
468	you can't change the rules.	你不能改变规则。
469	So the purpose of the competition	所以比赛的目的
470	includes walking.	包括走路
471	That's an essential, you agree with Tom, and what's your name?	这是必需的,你同意汤姆,你叫什么名字?
472	David.	大卫
473	The Supreme Court ruled	最高法院裁定
474	that the PGA did have to accommodate Casey Martin.	联盟必须接纳凯西・马丁
475	And they did it	他们做到了
476	on grounds that Reva mentioned.	以Reva提到的理由
477	That walking isn't really part of, an essential part	散步其实不是关键的一部分
478	of the game.	游戏。
479	They cited testimony saying that walking	他们引用证词说步行
480	the court consumes no more calories than you get eating	宫廷的热量不会超过你吃的东西
481	a Big Mac.	一个大麦克。
482	That's what walking is in golf.	这就是高尔夫的行走
483	According to the majority,	据多数人说,
484	Scalia was in dissent.	斯卡利亚持不同意见。
485	Justice Scalia agreed with David.	斯卡利亚法官同意大卫的意见.
486	He said, there is no	他说,没有
487	purpose.	目标。
488	And it's certainly not	当然不是
489	for courts to try to figure out the essential purpose of golf.	让法院找出高尔夫球的基本目的
490	Golf, like any game, is strictly for amusement.	高尔夫就像任何游戏一样完全是为了娱乐
491	And if there's a group that wants to have one	如果有一个团体想要一个
492	version of the game, they can have that version of the game.	游戏的版本,他们可以拥有游戏的版本.
493	And the market can decide whether people are amused	市场可以决定人们是否开心
494	and like and show up for that and watch the television	喜欢和出现这一点,看电视
495	broadcasts.	广播。
496	Scalia's dissent was an anti-Aristotelian	斯卡利亚的异议是反对阿里斯托特利安
497	dissent.	反对。
498	Because notice	因为注意
499	two things about the argument.	两件事关于争论。
500	First,	首先,我们...
501	we're thrust into a discussion about what the essential	我们正深入讨论什么是关键
502	nature or purpose or telos of golf really is.	自然或目的或高尔夫的三角形其实是。
503	Does it include walking?	包括走路吗?
504	And,	还有,
505	here's something I think is rumbling beneath the surface of this	这里有些东西,我想是隆起在这个表面
506	debate.	辩论。
507	Whether walking	是否走动
508	partly determines whether golf is really an athletic	部分决定高尔夫球是不是真正的运动
509	competition.	竞争。
510	After all, the ball sits still.	毕竟球坐不动.
511	You have to put it in a hole.	你必须把它放在洞里。
512	Is it more like basketball, baseball and football, golf	更像是篮球、棒球、橄榄球、高尔夫球
513	is an athletic competition?	是运动比赛吗?
514	Or is it more like	还是更像
515	billiards?	台球吗?
516	The ball sits still	球坐稳了
517	there too.	这里也一样。
518	You can be out of shape and succeed.	汝能断形而成功.
519	It involves skill but not athletic skill.	它涉及技能,但不是运动技能。
520	Could it be that those professional golfers	可能是那些职业高尔夫球员
521	who excel at golf	擅长高尔夫球的,
522	have a stake in golf being honored and	与高尔夫球有关
523	recognized as an athletic event	被认为是体育赛事
524	not just a game of skill like	不只是一个技巧的游戏
525	billiards?	台球吗?
526	And if that's what's at stake,	如果这是关键
527	then we have a debate about the purpose,	然后我们有一个辩论关于目的,
528	the teleological dimension, and also	以及心灵因素
529	a debate about honor.	关于荣誉的辩论。
530	What virtues	什么优点
531	really does the game of golf	高尔夫的比赛真的很成功
532	honor and recognize?	荣誉和承认?
533	Two questions to which	问两个问题
534	Aristotle directs our attention.	亚里士多德引导我们的注意力。
535	We'll continue on this case	我们继续调查此案
536	next time.	下次再说吧
537	What's strange and seems	奇怪,看起来
538	paradoxical to me about Aristotle's viewpoint	我对亚里士多德的观点很矛盾
539	is that if you walk like a pirate and you	如果你像海盗一样走路
540	talk like a pirate, you shouldn't be an investment banker	说话像海盗,你不应该是投资银行家
541	because that's not what	因为这不是
542	you're supposed to do.	你应该这样做。
543	If you have a peg leg and an eye patch	如果你的腿和眼线
544	and a disgruntled disposition,	和不满的处置,
545	you should be on a pirate ship on the high seas.	你应该在公海上的海盗船上
546	So he doesn't...	所以他不会...
547	Some would say the distinction	有人会说区别
548	between the two vocations is not as clear as you suggest.	这两种职业之间并不像你建议的那样明确。
549	When we ended last time,	我们上次结束的时候
550	we were talking about whether Casey Martin has a right	我们正谈论凯西・马丁是否有权利
551	to ride in a golf cart in the PGA	在PGA乘坐高尔夫球车
552	tournaments.	比赛
553	And it's worth remembering	值得记住
554	how we got into this debate and what's at stake for an	我们如何进入这场辩论和什么关系
555	understanding of political philosophy.	对政治哲学的理解。
556	Remember, we were looking at Aristotle's theory	记住,我们在看亚里士多德的理论
557	of justice and one way of describing his approach to	司法,并用一种方式说明他如何
558	justice, we called it teleological.	正义,我们称它为心灵学。
559	Teleological because he says to allocate rights	电传学是因为他说要分配权利
560	we first have to figure out the purpose	我们首先要找出目的
561	or the end of the social practice	或结束社会实践
562	in question.	有疑问。
563	Another way of	另一种方式
564	describing Aristotle's account of justice	描述亚里士多德的正义
565	is that justice is for him a matter of	正义对他来说是一个问题
566	fit.	合适吗?
567	It's a matter of fitting	这是适合的问题
568	persons with their virtues and	个人的美德
569	excellences to the appropriate	向适当的机构提供最佳服务
570	roles.	角色。。。
571	Now, I want to	现在,我想
572	finish our discussion about Casey Martin	结束我们关于凯西・马丁的讨论
573	and his claim for a golf cart	他的高尔夫球车索赔
574	and then go back to one more	然后回到一个
575	consequential application in Aristotle, namely	亚里士多德的相应应用,即
576	the question of slavery.	奴隶制问题。
577	What do you think	你觉得呢?
578	about Casey Martin's	关于凯西・马丁的
579	request, should there be an accommodation or not,	请求,如果有住宿与否,
580	given the nature of the game	鉴于游戏的性质
581	and of the tournament and its purposes?	和比赛的目的吗?
582	Isn't it discrimination if he's not	如果他不是,是不是歧视
583	provided the golf cart as an accommodation, say some.	提供高尔夫球车作为住宿,比如说。
584	Others reply, no, if he got a cart	其他人回答,没有,如果他有车
585	it would be unfair to the other golfers because	对其他高尔夫球员不公平因为...
586	they exert themselves, become winded, fatigued,	他们能工作,能风能,能疲倦,
587	walking the course.	沿着路走
588	That's where we	这就是我们
589	left it.	离开它。
590	What about the fairness	公平怎么样?
591	argument?	辩论?
592	Okay, Jenny.	好吧,珍妮,你好吗?
593	My question was why doesn't the	我的问题是,为什么不
594	PGA just make the option of a cart	PGA只是让一个车的选择
595	available to all golfers from our readings?	所有高尔夫球员都可以读到吗?
596	I learned that there are many golf tournaments	我得知有很多高尔夫球赛
597	other than the PGA where using a cart is not prohibited	除了不禁止使用推车的PGA以外
598	and for something like the seniors tournament it's even	和一些类似高年级的比赛,这是平
599	allowed and encouraged.	允许并鼓励。
600	So why	所以为什么
601	doesn't the PGA just do that?	PGA不是就那样吗?
602	Let everybody	让大家
603	use a cart.	用推车
604	Or give everyone the option of using a	或者让每个人选择使用
605	cart and let them pick.	推车让他们选。
606	So the traditionalists	所以传统主义者
607	can say, well, I still choose to walk the course, but I do	可以说,嗯,我仍然选择走路线,但我做到了
608	that knowing that I will be more tired at the	知道我会更疲惫
609	end than the people who took the cart.	而不是那些坐车的人
610	Good.	不错
611	Alright, so what about Jenny's	好吧,那么珍妮的怎么样
612	solution?	解决方案?
613	For the sake of fairness,	为了公平起见
614	don't give Casey Martin an advantage, if indeed	不要给凯西・马丁一个优势,如果真的
615	there is an advantage to riding in a cart.	骑车有优势
616	Let everyone	让所有人
617	who wants to use a cart.	谁想用推车。
618	Is everyone happy with that solution?	大家对这个解决方案满意吗?
619	Does it	是吗
620	put to rest this whole dilemma?	结束这整个困境?
621	Who has an answer for Jenny?	谁有珍妮的答案?
622	Yes.	对
623	As was brought up last time, if you	上次提起的,如果你
624	do that you kind of ruin	做你那种毁灭
625	some of the spirit of golf as a lot of people like to see it.	一些高尔夫精神作为很多人喜欢看到.
626	If you let everybody take a cart.	如果你让每个人都坐车。
627	Even though it gives everybody the same playing	虽然它给大家同样的游戏
628	feel now, it sort of makes golf	现在感觉,它有点高尔夫球
629	less of an athletic game like you pointed out last class.	少了一个运动比赛就像你指出的最后一课。
630	It's just like if someone decides	就像有人决定
631	to go into another sport and they want an advantage like	进入另一个运动他们想要一个优势,比如
632	if you have swimming and then you say, okay,	如果你有游泳,然后你说,好吧,
633	he wants flippers, so why don't we just allow everyone to have flippers doing swimming?	他想要翻车我们为什么不让每个人都有翻车来游泳呢?
634	And what would that do to the	那会怎样?
635	Olympic swimming competition if people were free to use	如果人们可以自由使用奥林匹克游泳比赛
636	Jenny, and here we better let Jenny reply to this.	珍妮,我们最好让珍妮回答这个问题。
637	Da says, it would sort of spoil the spirit	爸爸说,那会破坏精神
638	of the athletic competition as if in	运动比赛的成绩
639	Olympic swimming you let anyone who wanted to	奥运会游泳你让任何人谁想
640	swim with flippers.	与翻转。
641	Alright Jenny, what do you	好吧,珍妮,你怎么样
642	say to Da?	对达说?
643	It would spoil the spirit of it.	它会破坏它的精神。
644	You're also ruining the spirit of golf	你也毁了高尔夫精神
645	by not letting people who are really passionate	通过不让真正热情的人
646	about the game and very good at it, compete simply	关于游戏和非常擅长它, 简单竞争
647	because of an aspect of golf which is not,	因为高尔夫的某个方面不是,
648	the main point of golf is you use this	高尔夫球的要点是用这个
649	club to make strokes and hit it into a hole.	俱乐部会打中它然后打进洞里
650	I'm sorry, I'm not a golfer, but that's	对不起,我不是高尔夫球手,但是...
651	basically the gist of the game from what I see it.	基本上从我所看到的游戏的要点。
652	我在读PJ对Casey Martin的决定
653	that was one of the sentences that they said is	那是他们说过的一句话之一
654	because walking the course is not an inherent	因为走这条路不是固有的
655	part of golf, only swinging the club is.	高尔夫的一部分, 只有摇摆的俱乐部是。
656	Good, so Jenny replies to Da.	好,所以珍妮回答达。
657	Well, it isn't really essential anyhow	反正也没什么大不了的
658	to walk the course, so we're back to the purpose.	沿着路走所以我们又回到了目的
659	I mean, I'm sure there are like wheelchair	我的意思是,我相信有像轮椅
660	basketball, there are certain different	篮球,有些不同
661	competitions that can be made for people who	能够为那些
662	may only be able to use their arms.	可能只能使用他们的手臂。
663	Right, yes.	对,是的。
664	Michael, what do you think?	迈克尔,你觉得怎么样?
665	And you just said that there's stuff like wheelchair	你刚才说有轮椅之类的东西
666	basketball where if you can't play basketball,	篮球,如果你不能打篮球
667	there's another option.	还有另一个选择
668	I think there's other options	我想还有其他选择
669	in the PGA Tour, but the PGA Tour is like,	在PGA巡回赛, 但PGA巡回赛就像,
670	it's the best, it's the pinnacle, and you have to have	这是最好的,这是顶峰, 你必须有
671	certain requirements fulfilled to perform.	达到某些要求。
672	All right, Michael, you want to say to Casey Martin	好吧,迈克尔,你想对凯西马丁说
673	there is such a thing as the Special Olympics	特别奥运会就是这样的
674	for those who are disabled.	给那些残疾的人。
675	Go play in the golfing	去打高尔夫
676	version of the Special Olympics.	特别奥运会的版本。
677	That's what you would say, Michael.	你会这么说的麦可
678	Yeah, I think that walking is part of the sport of golf	是的,我认为步行是高尔夫运动的一部分
679	and Casey Martin, you know, if you can't walk the course	还有凯西・马丁如果你走不动的话
680	then I don't think you should be able to play on the PGA.	那我不认为你应该能玩PGA。
681	All right, good.	好吧,不错。
682	Thank you very much for that exchange.	谢谢你的交流
683	What comes out of this exchange that goes back	这回的交换结果是什么
684	to Aristotle's theory of justice?	亚里士多德的正义理论?
685	Well, one thing is the question is walking	好吧,有一件事是问题是步行
686	an essential part of golf?	高尔夫的必备部分?
687	And the very fact that deciding	而决定
688	whether there is a right for Casey Martin	凯西・马丁是否有权利
689	that the PGA must respect seems to depend	联盟必须尊重
690	as Aristotle suggests it must	正如亚里士多德建议的那样
691	on debating	辩论情况
692	and resolving the question	并解决问题
693	is walking essential to the game of golf?	走路对打高尔夫很重要吗?
694	That's one moral of the story.	这是故事的一个道德。
695	But there's a second moral to the story	但故事还有第二个道德
696	from an Aristotelian point of view.	从阿里斯托特利安的角度
697	What's at stake here, this is the second	事关重大,这是第二次
698	Aristotelian stake in this debate,	阿里斯托德利安在这场辩论中的利害关系
699	is honor.	这是荣誉。
700	Casey Martin想要住宿这样他就能
701	compete for the honor	竞争荣誉
702	of winning the best tournaments.	赢得最好的比赛。
703	Now, why is it	为什么?
704	that the professional golfers, the great golfers	职业高尔夫球手伟大的高尔夫球手
705	testified in this case, Jack Nicklaus,	杰克・尼克劳斯在此案中作证
706	Tom Kite in the readings	读数中的汤姆·基特
707	against letting them use a cart	反对他们用推车
708	and they I suspect would be equally vehement, Jenny,	珍妮,我猜他们也会生气的
709	in opposing your suggestion	反对你的建议
710	of letting everyone ride a cart	让所有人骑车
711	and this goes back in a way to Dodd's point	这可以追溯到多德的观点
712	how to put this gently.	如何轻轻地把这个。
713	Professional golfers	职业高尔夫球手
714	are sensitive	敏感
715	about whether their sport is really a sport.	关于他们的运动是否真的是一种运动。
716	Because if everyone rode around in a cart or could	因为如果每个人都骑着马车或可以
717	then it would become clear	然后它就会变得清晰
718	or clearer depending on your point of view	或者根据你的观点更清晰
719	that golf is not really an athletic competition	高尔夫球其实不是运动比赛
720	but rather a game, a game of skill	而是游戏,技能游戏
721	but not a sport.	但不是运动
722	And so not only the question of debating the purpose	所以不只是辩论目的的问题
723	the teleological feature	电话学特征
724	but also from the standpoint of	但也从
725	viewing debates about the purpose of golf, what's essential	观看关于高尔夫球目的的辩论,什么是关键
726	to golf, those debates Aristotle suggests	对于高尔夫球,那些辩论亚里士多德建议
727	inevitably are also debates	也必然是辩论
728	about the allocation of honor	关于荣誉分配
729	because part of the purpose of golf	因为高尔夫的部分目的
730	is not just to amuse spectators.	不只是取笑观众
731	Scalia is wrong about that	斯卡利亚错了
732	from Aristotle's point of view.	从亚里士多德的观点。
733	It's not just to provide entertainment, it's not just to make people happy.	不只是提供娱乐,也不仅仅是让人们快乐.
734	It's not mere amusement.	不只是娱乐
735	It's honoring, it's rewarding, it's recognizing	尊崇,赏赏,赏赏
736	a certain kind of athletic excellence	某种运动优秀
737	at least those who have achieved the highest honors	至少那些获得最高荣誉的人
738	have a powerful stake	有强大的利害关系
739	in maintaining that view.	坚持这一观点。
740	Now some of you took the position	现在你们中有些人就位了
741	about the Scalia position.	关于斯卡利亚的位置。
742	This is an incredibly difficult and silly question, Scalia said.	斯卡利亚说,这是一个非常困难和愚蠢的问题。
743	What is the essential nature of golf?	高尔夫的本质是什么?
744	It's not the kind of thing that the United States Supreme Court	这不是那种事情美国最高法院
745	is equipped to decide or should decide	有能力决定或应当决定
746	that's Scalia.	这是斯卡利亚。
747	But he only says that	但他只说
748	because he takes a very strong	因为他要非常强壮
749	and as it happens anti-Aristotelian position	和它发生的反阿里斯托里安的立场
750	on what a game is.	游戏是什么。
751	It is the very nature of a game to have no object	游戏的本质就是没有目标
752	no point, except amusement	没有意义,除了娱乐
753	says Scalia.	说斯卡利亚。
754	That is what distinguishes	这就是区别所在
755	games, he says, from productive activity.	他说,游戏从生产活动。
756	You can just imagine what kind of sports fans	你可以想象什么样的运动迷
757	Scalia must be.	一定是斯卡利亚
758	And so he says it's impossible to say that any of a game's	所以他说不可能说任何游戏
759	arbitrary rules is essential.	任意规则至关重要。
760	And then he quotes Mark Twain's	然后他引用马克・吐温的
761	disparaging remark about golf.	贬低高尔夫的言论。
762	He says many consider walking to be the central feature	他说许多人认为走路是中心特色
763	of golf, hence Mark Twain's classic criticism	所以马克・吐温的经典批评
764	of the sport, a good walk spoiled.	运动,一个好散步宠坏了。
765	But Scalia misses	但斯卡利亚错过了
766	an important feature of games	游戏的重要特征
767	and the arguments about rights	权利的论点
768	and fairness that arise from games	游戏产生的公平性
769	when he casts games, sports,	当他抛下游戏、体育、
770	athletic competitions as solely	体育比赛
771	for the sake of amusement	为了娱乐
772	as solely a utilitarian activity.	纯粹是一种功利主义的活动。
773	But an Aristotelian view of sports says	但一个阿里斯托德的体育观点说
774	no, it's not just about amusement.	不,这不只是娱乐。
775	Real sports, real athletic events	真正的运动,真正的运动
776	are also about appreciation, not just amusement.	不只是娱乐而已
777	And people who follow sports	跟着运动的人
778	and care about sports and play sports know this.	关心运动和游戏运动都知道这一点。
779	Which is another way of saying	这是另一种说法
780	there's a difference between a sport and a mirror	运动和镜子是不一样的
781	spectacle.	场景。
782	And the difference is	区别在于
783	that a sport is a practice	运动是一种练习
784	that calls forth and honors and prizes	呼唤荣誉和奖赏
785	certain excellences, certain	某些优秀的,某些
786	virtues.	功德功劳
787	And the people who appreciate	和欣赏的人
788	those virtues	这些美德
789	are the true fans, the informed fans,	是真正的粉丝,是知情的粉丝,
790	and for them watching the sport is not mere	他们不只观察游戏,
791	amusement.	娱乐。
792	But that means that it's	但这意味着
793	always possible to make sense of a debate	总是可以让辩论有意义
794	about what feature of a sport	关于运动的什么特点
795	is essential to it.	这一点至关重要。
796	We can make sense	我们可以说得通
797	of these arguments, never mind the question whether the court should	这些论点,不管法院是否应
798	decide.	决定
799	The PGA in its own	联盟本身
800	internal deliberations can make sense	内部审议是有道理的
801	of that debate, which is why they cared very much	所以他们非常关心
802	about their view,	关于他们的看法,
803	insisting on their view, that walking and exertion	坚持他们的观点, 步行和锻炼
804	and fatigue are essential, not peripheral	疲劳是必需的,不是边缘的
805	parts of sport.	运动的一部分。
806	Well, this is all to illustrate	这都是为了说明
807	the teleological and the honorific	和荣誉
808	feature of debates about	辩论的特征
809	rights, which Aristotle says	亚里士多德说的权利
810	we need to take account of in thinking about	我们在考虑
811	justice.	正义。
812	Now,	现在,
813	I want to begin for us to consider	我想开始考虑
814	whether Aristotle's theory of justice is	亚里士多德的正义理论是否
815	right or wrong, whether it's persuasive or unpersuasive.	无论是对还是错无论是说服力还是无说服力
816	I want to get your thoughts about that.	我想得到你的想法关于这一点。
817	But I want to anticipate one	但我想预料到一个
818	obvious and important objection.	明显而重要的反对。
819	If justice is about fit, fitting persons	如果正义是合适的,合适的人
820	to roles, matching virtues	对角色,匹配美德
821	to the appropriate honors and recognition,	给予适当的荣誉和承认,
822	if that's what justice is,	如果这就是正义
823	does it leave room for freedom?	它能给自由留下空间吗?
824	And this is one of the main objections	这是主要反对意见之一
825	to Aristotle's teleological	亚里士多德的电报
826	account of justice.	司法公正。
827	If certain roles,	如果某些角色,
828	social roles, are fitting or appropriate	社会角色,适合或适当
829	to me, where does that leave	对我来说,它会离开
830	my right to choose	我有权选择
831	my social roles, my life	我的社会角色,我的生活
832	purposes for myself?	为了我自己?
833	What room does teleology leave for freedom?	电传学为自由留下什么房间?
834	And in fact, you may remember,	事实上,你可能记得,
835	Rawls rejects	罗尔斯拒绝
836	teleological accounts of justice	司法学术语
837	because he says that teleological	因为他说遥测
838	theories of justice	司法理论
839	threaten the equal basic	威胁平等的基本
840	rights of citizens.	公民权利。
841	So let's begin to examine	所以,让我们开始检查
842	whether Aristotle is right and in particular	亚里士多德是否正确,特别是
843	whether his teleological	无论他的心智
844	way of thinking about justice is at odds with	对正义的思考方式与
845	freedom.	自由权。
846	Now, one obvious	现在,一个明显的
847	reason to worry	不用担心
848	is Aristotle's defense of slavery.	是亚里士多德对奴隶制的辩护
849	He defends slavery	他为奴隶制辩护
850	which existed as an institution	作为机构存在
851	in the Athens of his day.	在他的雅典时代。
852	Well, what is his defense of slavery?	他为奴隶制辩护什么?
853	Two things, two conditions have to be met	两件事,两个条件必须满足
854	for slavery to be just.	让奴隶制公正
855	First, it has to be necessary.	首先,必须这样做。
856	And Aristotle says, at least in our society,	而亚里士多德说,至少在我们的社会中,
857	slavery is necessary.	奴役是必要的。
858	Why is it necessary?	为什么有必要?
859	If there are to be citizens	如果有公民的话
860	who are freed from manual and menial and household chores	摆脱体力劳动、体力劳动和家务劳动;
861	to go to the assembly	去参加大会
862	to deliberate about politics,	考虑政治,
863	there have to be some who look after those menial	一定有人会照顾那些下流的
864	tasks, the mere necessities of life.	任务,仅仅是生活必需品。
865	He says unless you could invent	他说除非你能发明
866	in some science fiction	一些科幻小说
867	a technological fix,	技术修补,
868	then there are going to be those who have to do	那样的话,就会有人做
869	the hard and difficult	困难和困难
870	and menial labor if there are to be citizens deliberating	和体力劳动,如果有公民考虑
871	about the good and realizing their nature.	了解他们的本性
872	So slavery is necessary	所以,奴役是必要的
873	for the life of the polis, for there to be open to citizens,	为大都会的生活, 有开放给公民,
874	the life of deliberation,	讨论的寿命,
875	of argument, of practical wisdom.	辩论,实用智慧。
876	But there's a further condition that has to be met.	但还有另一个条件需要满足.
877	Slavery has not only to be necessary	奴隶制不仅是必要的
878	for the community as a whole to function,	让整个社区运作,
879	but it also has to be the case,	但也必须是这样
880	remember the criterion of fit,	你们应当谨记适当的标准,
881	it also has to be the case that there are some people	一定还有一些人
882	for whom being a slave is the just or the fitting	作为奴隶是正义的,是合适的
883	or the appropriate condition.	或适当的条件。
884	Now, Aristotle agrees that by his own standards	现在,亚里士多德同意根据他自己的标准
885	both of those conditions must be met, must be true,	这两种条件都必须满足,必须是真实的,
886	if slavery is to be just.	如果奴隶制是公正的。
887	And then in a deplorable passage	然后在悲惨的一段
888	he says, well it is true that there are some people	他说,确实有人
889	who are fit by nature, who are cut out to be slaves.	自然而然是合适的,被割为奴隶。
890	These are people who differ from ordinary	这些人和普通人不一样
891	people in the same way	以同样的方式
892	that the body differs from the soul.	身体和灵魂不同
893	These are people	他们是人
894	who are meant to be ruled and for them	他们注定要被统治,
895	their nature is best realized if they're slaves.	如果他们是奴隶,他们的本性就最好实现.
896	They can recognize reason in others,	他们能识别别人的理性,
897	but they can't partake of it,	但他们不能参与其中,
898	they can't exercise it.	他们不能锻炼它。
899	And somehow we can know this.	不知怎的,我们可以知道这一点。
900	Now, Aristotle must have known that there was something	亚里士多德一定知道有什么东西
901	dodgy, something strained about this claim,	Dodgy, 这件事很紧张,
902	because he quickly acknowledges	因为他很快承认
903	that those who disagree may have a point	分歧者或许有观点,
904	out.	出来。
905	And what those who disagree point out is	分歧者指出:
906	that there are a lot of people in Athens	雅典有许多人
907	who are slaves,	他们是奴隶,
908	not because they were born to be slaves	不是因为他们生来就是奴隶
909	or fit to be slaves, but because they were captured,	或适合成为奴隶, 但因为他们被俘虏,
910	they were losers in a war.	他们是战争中的失败者。
911	And so Aristotle admits that as practiced in ancient Athens,	所以亚里士多德承认在古雅典的实践,
912	slavery didn't necessarily line up with	奴隶制不一定与
913	who actually is fit or born to be a slave	真正适合或生来就是奴隶
914	because some actual slaves just were slaves	因为有些真正的奴隶只是奴隶
915	by bad luck, by being captured in a war.	在战争中被俘虏
916	And on Aristotle's own account, even if it's necessary	和亚里士多德自己, 即使它是必要的
917	to have slavery for the sake of citizenship,	为公民身份而奴役,
918	it's unjust if people	如果人不义
919	who aren't properly slaves are cast in that role.	他们不是真正的奴隶是扮演这个角色。
920	There is a misfit.	有点不合适
921	Aristotle recognizes that slavery for those who aren't fit	亚里士多德承认奴役那些不适合的人
922	for the task is a kind of coercion.	因为任务是一种强迫。
923	The reason slavery is wrong is not because it's coerced.	奴隶制错误的原因不是因为它是被胁迫的.
924	Coercion is an indicator that it's wrong	强迫是错误的迹象
925	because it's not natural.	因为它不自然。
926	If you have to coerce	如果你必须强迫
927	someone into a role, that's a pretty good indication	某个人扮演一个角色这是个好迹象
928	that they don't belong there, that that role isn't	他们不属于那里, 那个角色不是
929	fitting for them.	适合他们。
930	And Aristotle	亚里士多德
931	recognized this.	承认这一点。
932	So all of this is to say	所以这一切就是说
933	the example of slavery, Aristotle's defense of it,	亚里士多德为奴隶制辩护
934	doesn't show that there's anything wrong in principle	不显示什么是错的
935	with teleological argument or with the idea of justice	与心智论或正义思想
936	as fit between persons and roles	适合个人与角色
937	because it's perfectly possible within Aristotle's own terms	因为亚里士多德自己的条款是完全可能的
938	to explain what's wrong	来解释什么是错的
939	with this application, this practical application	使用此应用程序,此实用应用程序
940	that he made of his theory.	他的理论。
941	I want to turn to the larger challenge	我想谈谈更大的挑战
942	to Aristotle in the name of freedom, but before I do that	以自由的名义去亚里士多德但在此之前
943	I want to see what people think	我想看看别人怎么想
944	of Aristotle's account of justice as fit,	亚里士多德关于正义的叙述,
945	his teleological way,	他的传奇方式,
946	a reasoning about justice, and the honorific	关于正义和荣誉的推理
947	dimension of rights and of	人权及经济、社会、文化权利委员会
948	distributive justice that emerged in our discussion	我们讨论中出现的分配公正
949	of flutes and politics	笛子和政治
950	and golf.	还有高尔夫球
951	Questions of clarification	澄清问题
952	about Aristotle or	关于亚里士多德或
953	objections to his overall	总体反对意见
954	account.	账户。
955	Yes?	是吗?
956	My objection to Aristotle is that	我反对亚里士多德
957	he wants to match a person to a role,	他想把一个人配成一个角色
958	and if you walk like a pirate and you talk like a pirate	如果你像海盗一样走路说话像海盗
959	you should be a pirate, and that is what is right.	你应该是海盗,这是对的。
960	And so what's	所以,这是
961	strange and seem paradoxical to me about	很奇怪,我觉得很荒谬
962	Aristotle's viewpoint is that	亚里士多德的观点是:
963	if you walk like a pirate and you talk like a pirate	如果你走路像海盗,你说话像海盗
964	you shouldn't be an investment banker, because	你不应该是投资银行家,因为
965	that's not what you inherently are supposed to do.	这不是你本该做的
966	If you have a peg leg and an eye patch	如果你的腿和眼线
967	and a disgruntled disposition, you know,	和不满的处置,你知道,
968	you should be on a pirate ship on the high seas.	你应该在公海上的海盗船上
969	Some would say	有人会说
970	the distinction between the two	两者的区别
971	vocations is not as clear as you suggest.	职业并不像你建议的那样明确。
972	But that's good, I take the point.	但是,这很好,我理解这一点。
973	Yes, go ahead.	说吧
974	It just seems to ignore individual rights, so I might be	这似乎忽略了个人权利所以我可能
975	the perfect janitor in the whole world	全世界最完美的清洁工
976	and I can do that job the most efficiently out of anybody	我能从任何人手中做到最有效的工作
977	that exists right now, but I might not want to do that.	但是,我也许不想这样做。
978	I might want to do any other number	我可能想做其他号码
979	of pursuits, and it seems to say that that isn't really a good	似乎说这不是真的好事
980	option for me.	选择对我来说。
981	Alright, and what's your name?	好吧,你叫什么名字来着?
982	Mary Kate.	玛丽・凯特
983	Good.	不错
984	Alright, let's	好吧,让我们
985	take a couple more.	再拿两杯
986	Yes.	对
987	I think that the golf cart exchange	我觉得高尔夫车的交换
988	sort of brought up what I see as my main objection	提到我的主要反对意见
989	to this theological	这个神学
990	mode of reasoning.	推理模式。
991	I mean, Michael,	我的意思是,迈克尔,
992	I think that was your name, right?	我想那是你的名字对吧?
993	Believes that walking	相信会走路
994	is an inherent part of golf.	是高尔夫球的固有部分
995	Myself, I believe that walking is not an inherent	我自己,我相信走路不是内在的
996	part of golf, and I feel that no matter	高尔夫的一部分,我觉得不管怎样
997	how long we debate this particular point	我们辩论了多久这一点
998	of contention, we're never going to reach an accord.	争论,我们永远不会达成协议。
999	The theological framework	神学框架
1000	of reasoning, I believe, doesn't really allow us	推理,我认为,不真正允许我们
1001	to come to any sort of agreement.	达成任何协议。
1002	Alright, and what's your name?	好吧,你叫什么名字来着?
1003	Patrick.	派屈克派屈克派屈克
1004	Alright, let me try to address this set	好吧,让我试着解决这一套
1005	of objections to Aristotle.	对亚里士多德的反对。
1006	Let me start with Patrick's.	让我从帕特里克的。
1007	It's an important objection.	这是一个重要的反对。
1008	We had a debate about whether walking is	我们辩论过走路是不是
1009	essential to golf, and even in so seemingly	对高尔夫球至关重要甚至看起来如此
1010	trivial, or at least contained, the cases that	无关紧要的,或者至少是被控制的案件
1011	we couldn't agree.	我们不能同意。
1012	How can we possibly hope to	我们怎么可能希望
1013	agree when the stakes are higher	同意当赌注更高时
1014	and when we're debating the fundamental purposes or ends	当我们辩论基本目的或目的时
1015	of political community?	政治团体?
1016	And so	这样
1017	if we can't agree on what the ends	如果我们不能就结局达成一致
1018	or the goods of our shared public life	或我们共同公共生活的利益
1019	consist in, how can we base justice	我们如何建立正义
1020	and rights on some notion	权利的概念
1021	of what the end or the purpose or the good	目的或好处
1022	consists in?	组成?
1023	That's an important objection, so much so	这是一个重要反对,所以如此
1024	that much modern political theory	现代政治理论
1025	takes that worry about disagreement	担心分歧
1026	over the good as its starting point	以善为起点
1027	and concludes	结论
1028	that justice	正义
1029	and rights and constitutions	权利与宪法
1030	should not be based on any particular	不应以任何特定的
1031	conception of the good or the purposes	行为或目的的概念
1032	of political life, but should instead	政治生活,但应该
1033	provide a framework of rights that leaves people	* 提供权利框架,使人们离开
1034	free to choose their conceptions of the good,	他们可以自由选择自己的善良,
1035	their own conceptions of the purposes of life.	他们自己的人生目的概念。
1036	Now, Mary Kate said,	现在,玛丽・凯特说,
1037	what if a person is very well suited to having	如果一个人非常适合拥有
1038	a certain role, like the role of being a janitor,	某个角色,比如做清洁工的角色,
1039	but wants something else, wants to reach higher,	但想要别的东西,想要达到更高的,
1040	wants to choose another way of life?	想选择另一种生活方式吗?
1041	So that goes back to this question about freedom.	这又回到自由的问题。
1042	If we take our bearing as persons	如果我们以个人身份
1043	from roles that are said to fit our nature,	从据说适合我们本性的角色,
1044	shouldn't it at least be up to us to	至少应该由我们来决定
1045	decide what those roles are?	决定这些角色是什么?
1046	In fact, shouldn't it be up to us to define	事实上,不应该由我们来定义
1047	what roles are suitable to us?	什么角色适合我们?
1048	And that's going to take us back to the confrontation	这会带我们回到对抗中
1049	between Aristotle on the one hand and Kant	亚里士多德和康德之间
1050	and Rawls on the other.	另一边是罗尔斯
1051	Kant and Rawls	康德和罗尔斯
1052	think Patrick has a point.	帕特里克说得有道理
1053	They say precisely because people disagree	人家说是因为人们不同意
1054	in pluralist societies	在多元化社会中
1055	about the nature of the good life,	关于美好生活的性质,
1056	we shouldn't try to base justice on any	我们不应该试图把正义建立在任何
1057	particular answer to that question.	请回答这个问题。
1058	So they reject teleology, they reject	他们拒绝电传,拒绝
1059	the idea of tying justice to some conception	将正义与某种概念联系起来的想法
1060	of the good.	诸善者.
1061	What's at stake in the debate	这场辩论有什么关系?
1062	about teleology, say Rawlsian and Kantian	罗尔西安和康德
1063	liberals, is this.	自由主义者,就是这个。
1064	If you tie justice to a particular conception of the good,	如果你把正义和善良联系起来
1065	if you see justice as a matter of fit between	如果你把正义看作是一个问题
1066	a person and his or her roles, you don't	一个人及其角色,你没有
1067	leave room for freedom.	留下自由的空间。
1068	And to be free	为了自由
1069	is to be independent of	将独立于
1070	any particular roles	任何特定角色
1071	or traditions or conventions	或传统或公约
1072	that may be handed down by my parents	可能由我父母下达
1073	or my society.	或者我的社会
1074	So in order to	所以,为了
1075	decide as between these two broad traditions,	在这两种广泛传统之间作出决定,
1076	whether Aristotle is right or whether Kant	亚里士多德是正确还是康德
1077	and Rawls are right, we need to investigate	Rawls是对的我们需要调查
1078	whether the right is prior to the good, question one,	权利是否在善之前,问题一,
1079	and we need to investigate what it means	我们需要调查它意味着什么
1080	to be a free person, a free moral	一个自由的人,一个自由的道德
1081	agent.	探员
1082	Does freedom	自由吗?
1083	require that I stand toward my roles,	要求我站在我的角色,
1084	my ends and my purposes as an agent of choice	我的目的和目的作为选择的代理人
1085	or as someone trying to discover	或试图发现
1086	what my nature really is?	我的本性是什麽?
1087	Two big questions and we'll take them up next time.	两个大问题,我们下次再讨论
1088	Don't miss the chance to interact online	不要错过网上交流的机会
1089	with other viewers of Justice.	与正义的其他观众。
1090	Join the conversation.	加入对话。
1091	Take a pop quiz.	做个流行测验
1092	Watch lectures you've missed and learn	看你错过和学习的讲座
1093	a lot more.	还有很多
1094	请访问justiceharvard.org.
1095	It's the	这是
1096	right thing to do.	这是正确的事情。
1097	Funding for this program	为该方案提供的资金
1098	is provided by...	由...提供.
1099	Additional funding provided by...	由.提供的额外资金。

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P12 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p12 11. 11.共同责任的辩论 (P12)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p12 11. 11.共同责任的辩论 (P12)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 54:52

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:11	Today we turn to Kant's reply to Aristotle.	今天我们来看康德对亚里士多德的答复.
0:17	Kant thinks that Aristotle	康德认为亚里士多德
0:22	just made a mistake.	只是犯了一个错误。
0:25	It's one thing	这是一件事
0:26	Kant says, to support a fair framework of rights	康德说,支持公平的权利框架
0:32	within which people can pursue their own conceptions of the good life.	人们可以在其中追求自己的美好生活理念.
0:38	It's something else, it's something that runs the risk of coercion	这是别的东西, 它是有被胁迫的风险
0:43	to base law or principles of justice	以司法为根据的法律或原则
0:47	on any particular conception of the good life.	任何关于美好生活的具体概念。
0:51	You remember Aristotle says in order to investigate the ideal constitution we	你记得亚里士多德说过为了调查理想的宪法

展开字幕全文（1242 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Today we turn to Kant's reply to Aristotle.	今天我们来看康德对亚里士多德的答复.
2	Kant thinks that Aristotle	康德认为亚里士多德
3	just made a mistake.	只是犯了一个错误。
4	It's one thing	这是一件事
5	Kant says, to support a fair framework of rights	康德说,支持公平的权利框架
6	within which people can pursue their own conceptions of the good life.	人们可以在其中追求自己的美好生活理念.
7	It's something else, it's something that runs the risk of coercion	这是别的东西, 它是有被胁迫的风险
8	to base law or principles of justice	以司法为根据的法律或原则
9	on any particular conception of the good life.	任何关于美好生活的具体概念。
10	You remember Aristotle says in order to investigate the ideal constitution we	你记得亚里士多德说过为了调查理想的宪法
11	have first to figure out the best way to live.	首先要找出最好的生活方式
12	Kant would reject that idea.	康德会拒绝这个想法的
13	He says that constitutions and laws and rights	他说,宪法、法律和权利
14	should not	不应该
15	embody or affirm or promote any particular	体现、确认或促进任何特定
16	way of life.	生活方式。
17	That's at odds with freedom.	这是与自由相悖的。
18	For Aristotle, the whole point of law,	对于亚里士多德,整个法律要点,
19	the purpose of the polis, is to shape character,	波利斯的目的是为了塑造人物
20	to cultivate the virtue of citizens, to inculcate civic excellence,	培养公民的美德, 灌输公民的卓越,
21	to make possible a good way of life.	以创造良好的生活方式。
22	That's what he tells us in the politics.	这是他在政治方面告诉我们的
23	For Kant on the other hand, the purpose of law,	对康德来说法律的目的
24	the point of a constitution, is not to inculcate or to promote	宪法的意义不是灌输或提倡
25	virtue.	美德。美德。。
26	It's to set up a fair framework of rights	是建立公平的权利框架
27	within which citizens may be free to pursue their own conceptions of the	公民可自由地追求自己对《公约》的认识。
28	good for themselves.	对自己有好处。
29	So we see the difference in their theories of justice,	因此,我们看到他们的正义理论的不同,
30	we see the difference in their account of law,	我们看到他们的法律上的差异,
31	or the role of a constitution, the point of politics,	或宪法的作用,政治的要点,
32	and underlying these differences are two different accounts of what it means to	这些差异背后有两个不同的说法:
33	be a free person.	成为一个自由的人。
34	For Aristotle,	对于亚里士多德,
35	we're free insofar as we have the capacity to realize	只要我们有能力实现自由
36	our potential.	我们的潜力。
37	That leads us to the question of fit.	这使我们想到适合的问题。
38	Fit between persons and the roles that are appropriate to them.	适合个人和适合他们的角色。
39	Figuring out what I'm cut out for.	找出我该做什么
40	That's what it means	这就是它的意思
41	to lead a free life, to live up to my potential.	过着自由的生活尽我所能
42	Kant rejects that idea and instead substitutes his	康德拒绝这个想法,代之以他
43	famously demanding notion of freedom as the capacity	要求自由作为能力的著名概念
44	to act autonomously.	自动行动
45	Freedom means acting	自由意味着行动
46	according to a law I give myself, freedom as autonomy.	根据我赋予自己的法律自由就是自治
47	Part of the appeal, part of the moral force	上诉的一部分,道德力量的一部分
48	of the view of Kant and of Rawls	康德和罗尔斯的观点
49	consists in the conception of the person	由人的概念构成
50	as a free and independent self,	作为一个自由和独立的自我,
51	capable of choosing his or her	能够选择他或她
52	own ends.	自己的结局。
53	The image of the self as free and independent	自由与独立的自我形象
54	offers, if you think about it, a powerful	提供,如果你想想,一个强大的
55	liberating vision because what it says is that as free moral persons	解放视觉,因为它所说的是作为自由道德的人
56	we are not bound by any ties	我们没有任何联系
57	of history or of tradition	历史或传统
58	or of inherited status that we haven't chosen for ourselves.	或继承地位我们没有为自己选择。
59	And so we're unbound by any moral ties prior to our choosing them.	所以我们在选择他们之前没有任何道德联系
60	And that means, that means that we are	这意味着,这意味着我们
61	free and independent sovereign selves.	自由独立自主
62	We're the authors of the only obligations	我们是唯一的义务的作者
63	that constrain us.	这制约了我们。
64	The communitarian critics of Kantian and Rawlsian liberalism	康德和罗尔斯自由主义的共产主义批评者
65	acknowledge that there is something powerful	承认有很强的力量
66	and inspiring in that account of freedom, the free	在自由、自由、
67	independent choosing self, but they argue	独立选择自己,但他们争论
68	it misses something.	它错过了什么。
69	It misses a whole dimension	它错过了整个层面
70	of moral life and even political life.	道德生活,甚至政治生活。
71	It can't make sense of our moral experience because it can't account	它不能理解我们的道德经历,因为它不能说明
72	for certain moral and political obligations	某些道德和政治义务
73	that we commonly recognize and even prize.	我们通常承认,甚至奖励。
74	And these include obligations of membership, loyalty, solidarity	包括会员义务、忠诚、团结
75	and other moral ties that may claim us for reasons	以及可能因故要求我们
76	that we can't trace to an act of consent.	我们不能追踪到同意的行为。
77	Alastair McIntyre gives an account	阿拉斯泰尔·麦金泰尔开户
78	what he calls a narrative conception of the self.	他称之为自我的叙事概念。
79	It's a different account of the self.	彼说法自性.
80	Human beings are essentially storytelling	人类基本上是讲故事的
81	creatures, McIntyre argues.	生物,麦金泰尔争论。
82	That means	就是说
83	I can only answer the question what am I to do	我只能回答我该怎么做的问题
84	if I can answer the prior question of what story or stories do I find myself	如果我能回答前一个问题是什么故事,我发现自己
85	apart.	分开
86	That's what he means by	这就是他的意思
87	the narrative conception of the self.	自我的叙事概念。
88	What does this have to do with the idea of community	这与社区的想法有什么关系
89	and belonging?	和归属?
90	McIntyre says this.	麦金泰尔这么说的
91	Once you accept this narrative aspect	一旦你接受了这个叙述方面
92	of moral reflection, you will	道德反思,你会
93	notice that we can never seek for the good	注意我们永远无法为善
94	or exercise the virtues only as individuals.	或只作为个人行使美德。
95	We all approach our circumstance as bearers	我们都以承载者的身份看待我们的情况
96	of particular social identities.	特殊社会特征。
97	I am someone's	我是别人的
98	son or daughter, a citizen of this or that city.	不管是儿子还是女儿是这个城市还是那个城市的公民
99	I belong to this plan, that tribe, this nation.	我属于这个计划那个部落这个民族
100	Hence, McIntyre argues, what is good for me	因此,麦金塔认为,什么对我有好处
101	has to be the good for someone who inhabits these	一定对住着这些东西的人有好处
102	roles.	角色。。。
103	I inherit from the past	我继承了过去
104	of my family, my city, my tribe, my nation a variety	家族、城市、部落、民族
105	of debts, inheritances, expectations and obligations.	债务、遗产、期望和义务。
106	These constitute the given of my life,	这些都是我一生的奉献
107	my moral starting point.	我的道德起点
108	This is, in part, what gives my life	这是部分地,使我的生命
109	its moral particularity.	它的道德特性。
110	That's the narrative conception of the self.	这就是自我的叙事概念.
111	And it's a conception that sees the self as claimed or encumbered	它是一个概念,认为自己是声称或作保
112	at least to some extent by the history,	至少从历史的某种程度上来说,
113	the tradition, the communities	传统、社区
114	of which it's a part.	其为部分.
115	We can't make sense of our lives	我们的生活是没有道理的
116	not only as a psychological matter but also as a moral matter in thinking what	不仅是心理问题,也是道德问题
117	we ought to do	我们应该做
118	without attending to these features	不注意这些特性
119	about us.	关于我们。
120	Now, McIntyre recognizes	现在,麦金塔承认
121	that this narrative account, this picture of the encumbered self	这段叙述,这幅图画的自我
122	puts his account at odds with	他的账户与
123	contemporary liberalism and individualism.	当代自由主义和个人主义.
124	From the standpoint of individualism, I am	从个人主义的角度来说,我是
125	what I myself choose to be.	我自己选择的
126	I may biologically be my father's son but I	我也许在生理上是我父亲的儿子但我
127	can't be held responsible for what he did	他的所作所为不能负责
128	unless I choose to assume such responsibility.	除非我愿意承担这种责任
129	I can't be held responsible for what my country does	我不能为国家所做的事负责
130	or has done unless I choose to assume such responsibility.	或者已经做了除非我选择承担这种责任。
131	But McIntyre says this reflects a certain kind of moral	但麦金泰尔说这反映了某种道德
132	shallowness, even blindness.	浅薄,甚至失明.
133	It's a blindness at odds with the full measure of responsibility which	这是盲目与全方位的责任
134	sometimes he says involves	有时候他说,涉及
135	collective responsibility.	集体责任。
136	Responsibilities that may flow from historic	历史遗留的责任
137	memories.	回忆
138	And he gives some examples.	他举了一些例子。
139	Such individualism is expressed by those	这种个人主义表现为:
140	contemporary Americans who deny any responsibility for the	当代美国人否认对
141	effects of slavery upon black Americans saying I never owned any slaves	奴隶制对美国黑人的影响说我从未拥有过奴隶
142	or the young German who believes	或年轻的德国人相信
143	that having been born after 1945	出生于1945年之后
144	means that what Nazis did to Jews has no moral relevance	意味着纳粹对犹太人所做的与道德无关
145	to his relationship to his Jewish contemporaries.	他和他的犹太同龄人的关系
146	McIntyre says all of these attitudes	麦金泰说所有这些态度
147	of historical amnesia amount to a kind of moral	历史失忆症相当于一种道德
148	abdication.	辞退.
149	Once you see that who we are	一旦你看到我们是谁
150	and what it means to sort out our obligations	以及解决我们的义务的意义
151	can't be separated, shouldn't be separated	不能分开,不应该分开
152	from the life histories that define us.	从生命的历史定义我们。
153	The contrast he says with the narrative account is clear	他说的与叙述的对比是清楚的
154	for the story of my life is always embedded in the story of those	因为我的生活故事总是嵌入那些故事
155	communities from which I derived my identity.	我从这些社区获得我的身份
156	I am born with the past and to try to cut myself off from that past	我生来就与过去同在试图与过去隔绝
157	is to deform my present relationships.	就是破坏我现在的关系
158	So there you have in McIntyre a strong statement of the idea	因此,你在麦金泰尔有一个强烈的主张
159	that the self can't be detached,	使自己无法分离,
160	shouldn't be detached from its particular	不应该脱离它的特殊性
161	ties of membership, history,	成员关系、历史、
162	story, narrative.	故事叙事
163	Now I want to get your reactions	现在我想得到你的反应
164	to the communitarian critique	对社区批评
165	of the individualist or the voluntrist,	个人或自愿者,
166	the unencumbered self, but let's make it concrete so that you can react	但是让我们让它变得具体些这样你就可以作出反应了
167	to more than just the theory of it by looking at	不只是理论通过观察
168	the two different accounts of moral and political obligation that arise	关于道德和政治义务的两种不同说法
169	depending on which of these conceptions of the person	根据这些人的这些概念,
170	one accepts.	一个接受。
171	On the liberal conception	关于自由概念
172	moral and political obligations arise in one of two ways.	道德和政治义务在两个方面产生。
173	There are natural duties that we owe human beings as such,	我们当然要承担人类的责任
174	duties of respect for persons, quay persons.	尊重人、准人的义务。
175	These obligations are universal.	这些义务具有普遍性。
176	Then, as Rawls points out,	然后,正如罗尔斯指出,
177	there are also voluntary obligations,	还有自愿义务,
178	obligations that we owe to particular others	我们对特定其他人的义务
179	insofar as we have agreed,	根据我们达成的协议,
180	whether through a promise or a deal	无论是通过承诺还是交易
181	or a contract.	或合同。
182	Now the issue between	现在的问题是
183	the liberal and communitarian accounts of the self	自由主义和共产主义的自我
184	is there another category of obligation	是否有另一类义务
185	or not?	还是没有?
186	The communitarian says there is.	共者说有.
187	There is a third category that might be called obligations of solidarity or	第三类可称为团结义务或
188	membership.	成员。
189	The communitarian argues that construing	共产主义者认为,
190	all obligations as either natural duties	作为自然义务的所有义务
191	or voluntary obligations fails to capture obligations of membership or	或自愿义务未能反映成员义务或
192	solidarity.	团结。
193	Loyalties whose moral force consists partly in the fact	其道德力量部分构成事实的忠诚
194	that living by them is inseparable from understanding ourselves as the	生活在他们身边与理解我们
195	particular persons we are.	特别的人,我们是。
196	What would be some examples?	有哪些例子?
197	And then I want to see how you would	然后我想看看你会怎样
198	react to them.	对他们作出反应。
199	Examples	实例
200	of obligations of membership	成员的义务
201	that are particular but don't necessarily flow from consent but rather from	但不一定来自同意而是来自
202	membership, narrative, community,	成员、叙述、社区、
203	one situation.	只有一个情况
204	The most common examples	最常见的例子
205	are ones to do with the family, the relation between parents and children for	家庭、父母与子女的关系
206	example.	实例。
207	Suppose there were two children	如果有两个孩子
208	drowning.	溺毙.
209	You could save only one of them.	你只能救一个
210	One was your child, the other was a stranger's child.	一个是你的孩子另一个是陌生人的孩子
211	Would you have an	你会有一个
212	obligation	义务
213	to flip a coin or would there be something	翻转硬币,或者有什么
214	morally obtuse if you didn't rush to save your child?	如果你不急于救你的孩子道德上会犯错吗?
215	Now you may say well parents have agreed	现在你可以说父母同意了
216	to have their children.	他们的孩子。
217	So take the other case,	换个案子
218	the case of children's obligation for their parents.	儿童对父母的义务。
219	Now we don't choose our	现在我们不选择
220	parents.	父母亲。
221	We don't even choose to have parents.	我们甚至没有选择有父母。
222	There is that asymmetry.	有这种不对称。
223	And yet consider two aging	考虑一下两个衰老
224	parents, one of them yours, the other a stranger's.	父母,其中一个是你的,另一个是陌生人的。
225	Doesn't it make moral sense to think that you have a greater obligation	认为你负有更大的义务道德上不合理吗?
226	to look after your age of parent than to flip a coin	照顾你父母的年龄而不是翻硬币
227	or to help the strangers?	还是帮助陌生人?
228	Now	现在
229	is this traceable to consent?	这是否可追溯到同意?
230	Not likely.	可能不会
231	Or take a couple of political examples.	或举几个政治例子.
232	During World War II, French resistance	二战期间,法国抵抗运动
233	pilots flew bombing raids over occupied France.	飞行员在占领的法国上空发动轰炸。
234	One day, one of the pilots received his targets	有一天,一个飞行员收到目标
235	and noticed that the village he was being asked	并且注意到有人要问他的村庄
236	to bomb was his home village.	轰炸是他的家乡
237	He refused, not disputing that it was as necessary as the target	他拒绝了,没有反驳说这与目标一样必要。
238	he bombed yesterday.	他昨天轰炸。
239	He refused on the ground that he couldn't bring himself.	他拒绝,理由是他不能带来自己。
240	It	这个
241	would be a special moral	这将是一种特殊的道德
242	crime for him to bomb his people,	谋杀他的人
243	even in a cause that he supported,	以至他所拥护的事业,
244	the cause of liberating France.	解放法国的事业
245	Now	现在
246	do we admire that?	我们佩服吗?
247	If we do,	如果我们这样做,
248	the communitarian argues, it's because	共产主义争论,因为
249	we do recognize obligations of solidarity.	我们确实承认团结的义务。
250	Take another example.	举个例子
251	Some years ago there was a famine in Ethiopia.	几年前,埃塞俄比亚发生饥荒。
252	Hundreds of thousands of people were starving.	数十万人正在挨饿。
253	The Israeli government organized an airlift	以色列政府安排了一次空运
254	to rescue Ethiopian Jews.	拯救埃塞俄比亚犹太人
255	They didn't have the capacity to rescue everyone in Ethiopia.	他们没有救出埃塞俄比亚所有人的能力.
256	They rescued several hundred	他们救了几百人
257	Ethiopian Jews.	埃塞俄比亚犹太人。
258	Now, what's your moral assessment?	你的道德评价是什么?
259	Is that a kind of morally	这是一种道德
260	troubling partiality?	烦恼的偏执?
261	A kind of prejudice?	某种偏见?
262	Or, as the Israeli government	或者,作为以色列政府
263	thought, is there a special obligation of solidarity?	考虑一下,是否有团结的特殊义务?
264	that this airlift properly responded to?	这次空运是否做出了正确反应?
265	Well, that takes us to the broader question of patriotism.	那么,这让我们想到更广泛的爱国主义问题。
266	What morally speaking is to be said for patriotism?	从道德上讲,爱国主义是什么?
267	There are two towns named Franklin.	有2个镇名富兰克林.
268	One is Franklin, Texas and the other is just	一个是富兰克林,德克萨斯,另一个只是
269	across the Rio Grande River,	穿过里奥格兰德河,
270	Franklin, Mexico.	墨西哥富兰克林
271	What is the moral significance of national boundaries?	国界的道德意义是什么?
272	Why is it, or is it the case,	为什么是,还是它的情况,
273	that we as Americans have a greater responsibility	我们美国人有更大的责任
274	for the health and the education and the welfare and public provision	健康和教育以及福利和公共供给
275	for people who live in Franklin, Texas	给住在德克萨斯州富兰克林的人
276	than equally needy people just across the river	比河对岸同样贫穷的人
277	living in Franklin, Mexico?	住在墨西哥富兰克林吗?
278	According to the	根据
279	communitarian account, membership does matter.	共产主义的账户, 会员身份确实很重要。
280	The reason patriotism is at least potentially	爱国主义的理由至少是潜在的
281	a virtue is that it is an expression of	美德是表达
282	the obligations of citizenship.	公民义务。
283	How many are sympathetic to the idea	有多少人同情这个想法
284	that there is this third category of obligation,	有第三类义务,
285	the obligations of solidarity or membership?	团结或成员资格的义务?
286	How many are sympathetic to that idea?	有多少人同情这个想法?
287	And how many are critical of that idea?	有多少人批评这个想法?
288	How many think all obligations	有多少人认为所有的义务
289	can be accounted for in the first two ways?	可以用前两种方式说明?
290	All right, let's hear from the critics of the communitarian idea	好吧,让我们听听批评共产主义思想
291	first.	先说
292	Yes?	是吗?
293	My biggest concern with	我最关心的是
294	the idea of having obligations because you're a member of	拥有义务的想法因为你是
295	something or because of solidarity is that it seems that	某事或因为团结似乎
296	if you accept those obligations as being sort of morally binding,	如果你接受这些义务某种道德约束,
297	then there's a greater occurrence of overlapping obligations.	然后,重叠义务的发生增多。
298	A greater occurrence of good versus good.	善与善的发生较多.
299	And I don't know if this sort of framework allows us	我不知道这种框架是否允许我们
300	to choose between them.	在他们之间做出选择。
301	Good.	不错
302	And what's your name?	你叫什么来着?
303	Patrick.	派屈克派屈克派屈克
304	So you worry	所以你担心
305	that if we recognize obligations of membership or solidarity	如果我们承认成员资格或团结的义务
306	since we inhabit different communities, their claims might conflict	既然我们住在不同的社区他们的主张可能会有冲突
307	and what would we do if we have competing obligations?	如果我们有相互竞争的义务我们该怎么办?
308	Yes?	是吗?
309	Well, one solution is that we could view ourselves as	一个解决办法是我们可以把自己看成
310	ultimately members of the human community	最后是人类社会的成员
311	and that then within that we have all these smaller spheres	并且在那范围内,我们拥有所有这些较小的领域
312	of that, you know, I am an American or I am	你知道,我是美国人还是美国人
313	a student at Harvard and so the	哈佛大学的学生,所以
314	most important community to be	最重要的社区
315	obligated to is the community of	社区有义务
316	human beings and then from there you can sort of evaluate	人类,然后从那里你可以评估
317	which other ones are most important to you.	其他的对你最重要
318	So the most	所以最多一个
319	and what's your name?	还有你叫什么名字?
320	Nicola.	尼可拉尼可拉尼可拉
321	So Nicola, you say the most	所以,尼可拉,你说最多
322	universal community we inhabit, the community of humankind	我们居住的世界性社区,人类社区
323	always takes precedence.	总是优先。
324	Yes.	对
325	Patrick,	派屈克,你好吗?
326	are you satisfied?	你满意了吗?
327	No.	没有
328	Why not?	为什么不呢?
329	It seems rather arbitrary that we should choose	我们选择
330	the universal obligation over	普遍义务
331	the more specific obligation.	更具体的义务。
332	I might also say that I should be	我也可以说,我应该
333	obligated first to the most specific of my obligations, for instance,	以我最具体的义务为例,
334	take my family as a small unit of solidarity.	把我的家人当成一个小团结单位
335	Perhaps I should be first obligated to that unit	也许我该先到那个单位去
336	and then perhaps to the unit of my town and then my country and then the human race.	然后也许去我镇上的单位然后去我的国家然后去人类
337	Good, thank you.	很好谢谢
338	Let's, I want to hear from	让我们,我想听到
339	another critic of the communitarian view.	另一个批评社区观点的人。
340	We have the objection	我们反对
341	well what if goods collide?	如果货物碰撞呢?
342	Who objects to the whole idea of it?	谁反对这个想法?
343	Who sees patriotism as just a kind of prejudice that ideally we should	谁把爱国主义看作是一种偏见,我们最好这样做
344	overcome?	战胜?
345	Yes.	对
346	Patriotism reflects a community membership.	爱国主义反映出社区成员。
347	That's like a given.	这就像一个给定。
348	I think the problem	我认为问题
349	is that whereas some	是,虽然有些
350	memberships are natural narratives,	成员是自然的叙述,
351	the narrative of citizenship	公民身份的叙述
352	is a constructed one and I think a false one.	是一个构造的,我认为一个错误的。
353	Because as the river is just a historical accident,	因为河只是个历史意外
354	it makes no sense that because the lottery of birth threw me into the	因为出生的彩票把我扔进
355	United States as opposed to	美国与
356	Mexico, that that's the membership that I should be a part of.	墨西哥,这就是我应该参加的成员。
357	Good, and what's your name?	好,你叫什么名字来着?
358	Elizabeth.	伊丽莎白
359	Who has a reply?	谁有答复?
360	Yes.	对
361	I think in general	我总觉得
362	we have to ask where do our moral obligations arise from anyway?	我们必须问,我们的道德义务从何而来?
363	I think basically there'd be two places from which they could arise.	我想基本上有两个地方可以产生它们
364	One would be	一个是
365	kin, another one would be reciprocity.	亲属,另一个将是互惠。
366	The closer you are associated to other people, there's a natural reciprocity	你和别人的关系越密切自然是互惠的
367	there in terms of	说明
368	having interactions with those people.	和那些人互动
369	You interact with the neighbors on your street, with the other people in your	你和街上的邻居互动和别人在你的
370	country through economic arrangements.	国家通过经济安排。
371	I don't know, and you don't know those	我不知道,你不知道这些
372	people in Franklin,	富兰克林的人,
373	Texas any more than you know the people in Franklin, Mexico,	比你们更了解墨西哥富兰克林的人
374	do you?	是吗?
375	Presumably you're naturally more connected with the people in your own	假设你自然地与自己的人更相关
376	country	国家
377	in terms of interaction and trade than you are with people in other countries.	在互动和交易方面比你和其它国家的人。
378	Good, who else?	很好,还有谁?
379	Go ahead.	来吧。
380	Yeah, I think that	是啊,我觉得
381	a lot of the basis for patriotism can be compared to like school spirit	许多爱国主义的基础可以和学校精神相提并论
382	or even house spirit that we see here, where	甚至是我们在这里看到的精神
383	freshmen are sorted into houses and then within a day they have developed some	新生们被整理成房屋然后在一天之内他们开发了一些
384	sort of	有点
385	attachment or pride associated with that house, and so I think that we can probably	和那栋房子相关联的感情或骄傲所以我认为我们可以
386	draw a distinction between a moral obligation for communitarian	区分社区道德义务
387	beliefs and sort of just a sentimental emotional attachment.	信仰和感情上的感情
388	Good, wait, stay there, what's your name?	好,等等,待在那里,你叫什么名字?
389	Rena.	瑞纳
390	What about,	怎么样,
391	go back to my example about the obligation of the child to the parent,	回到我关于孩子对父母的义务的例子,
392	would you say the same thing there?	你也会这么说吗?
393	It's just, it may or may not be a sentimental	它只是,它可能或可能不是一个多愁善感
394	tie, but it has no moral weight?	领带,但它没有道德重量?
395	Well, I mean,	我是说...
396	I'm not entirely certain that accident	我不完全确定那场事故
397	in the initial stages	第一阶段
398	is something that will preclude like moral obligations later.	这一点以后将排除道德义务。
399	So, you know,	所以,你知道吗,
400	just because we're randomly sorted into a house or just because we don't choose	只是因为我们被随机排序到一个房子或者只是因为我们不选择
401	who our parents are or what country we're born into doesn't necessarily mean that we	我们的父母是谁或者我们出生的国家并不一定意味着我们
402	won't	不会的
403	develop an obligation based on some type of	制定基于某种类型的义务
404	benefit, I guess, which is sort of shaky.	我猜是有点摇晃了
405	So your obligation to your	所以,你的义务是你的
406	aged parent	老年父母
407	that's greater than to aged parents	这比老年父母还要大
408	around the world	世界各地
409	is only because	只是因为
410	and in so far as	并一直到
411	you're repaying a benefit	你报了恩
412	that your parent	你的家长
413	gave you when you were growing up?	你长大的时候给你的?
414	Yeah, I mean, I would say that if you look at cases of adoption where, you know,	是啊,我的意思是,我会说,如果你看收养的案例,你知道,
415	you have a biological parent somewhere else that you don't interact with and then you	你有亲生父母在别的地方你不互动,然后你
416	have a parent, you know, who adopted you,	有个收养你的父母
417	most people would say that	大多数人会说
418	if you had to pick between them in the case of, you know,	如果你不得不在他们之间挑拣以防万一,你知道,
419	aging parents that	年迈的父母
420	your obligation would lie more with the person	你的责任更在于这个人
421	who raised you and who had exchanges with you meaningfully.	他把你养大,他与你进行了有意义的交流。
422	May I ask you one more question about the parent?	我能再问你一个关于父母的问题吗?
423	Sure.	当然
424	Do you think that a person with a bad parent	你觉得一个父母不好的人
425	owes them less?	欠他们多少?
426	I don't know because I've never had a bad parent.	我不知道,因为我从来没有一个坏父母。
427	I think that's a good place to end.	我想这是结束的好地方
428	We'll continue with this next time.	下次再继续吧
429	Thank you.	谢谢
430	If I were working on an	如果我在做一个
431	economic problem set, for example,	经济问题,例如,
432	and I saw that my roommate was cheating,	我看到我的室友在作弊,
433	that might be a bad thing for him to do, but I wouldn't turn him in.	这对他来说可能不好但我不会告发他
434	You would not turn him in?	你不告发他?
435	I wouldn't turn him in and I think that	我不会告发他我觉得
436	I would argue that's the right thing to do because of my obligation to, you know.	我认为这是正确的事情因为我有义务,你知道的。
437	You don't have a duty to tell the truth,	你没有义务说实话
438	to report someone who cheated?	报告一个作弊的人?
439	Today,	今天,我们...
440	I'd like to take,	我想带
441	I'd like to consider the strongest objections to the idea	我想考虑一下最强烈的反对意见
442	that there are obligations of solidarity or membership.	团结或加入的义务。
443	Then I want to see if those objections can be met	那么我想看看这些反对是否能得到满足
444	successfully.	成功。
445	One objection emerged in the discussion last time.	上次讨论中出现了一个反对意见。
446	Patrick said, well,	帕特里克说,好吧,
447	if obligations flow from community membership and identity, we inhabit	如果义务来自社区成员和身份,我们居住
448	multiple communities, doesn't that mean that our obligations	多个社区,不意味着我们的义务
449	will sometimes	有时候
450	conflict?	冲突?
451	So that's one possible objection.	因此,这是一个可能的反对意见。
452	And then Rena	然后丽娜
453	said,	说,
454	these examples meant to	这些例子意在
455	bring out the moral force	唤起道德力量
456	of solidarity and membership,	团结和成员资格,
457	examples about	实例
458	parents and children,	父母和子女,
459	about the French resistance fighter asked to bomb his own village and drawing	关于法国抵抗战士要求轰炸自己的村庄和画画
460	back,	回来
461	about the airlift	关于空运
462	by Israel of Ethiopian Jews.	以埃塞俄比亚犹太人为名。
463	These examples, they may be intuitively evocative, Rena said,	这些例子,可能是直观的, Rena说,
464	but really they're pointing to	但实际上他们指
465	matters of emotion, matters of sentiment,	情感问题情感问题
466	not true moral obligations.	不是真正的道德义务。
467	And then	礛
468	there were a number of objections	有一些反对
469	not necessarily to patriotism as such,	不一定是爱国的,
470	but to patriotism	但为了爱国
471	understood as	理解为
472	an obligation of solidarity and membership	团结和成员资格的义务
473	beyond consent.	未经同意。
474	This objection	这项反对
475	allowed that there can be obligations to the communities we inhabit, including	允许对我们居住的社区承担义务,包括:
476	obligations to patriotism,	对爱国主义的义务,
477	but this objection argued that	但这一反对意见认为,
478	all of the obligations of patriotism or of community or membership are actually	爱国主义、社区或成员的所有义务实际上都是
479	based on	基于
480	liberal ideas and perfectly compatible with them.	自由主义思想,与它们完全兼容.
481	Consent either implicit or explicit	默示或明示同意
482	or reciprocity.	或对等。
483	例如,在网站上的Julia Rothau
484	said that liberalism can endorse patriotism	说自由主义可以认可爱国主义
485	as a voluntary	自愿参加
486	moral obligation.	道德义务。
487	Patriotism and familial love	爱国主义和家庭爱
488	both fall under this category	两者都属于这一类
489	because after all, Julia points out,	因为毕竟,茱莉亚指出,
490	the Kantian framework	关甸框架
491	allows people, free rein, to choose to express virtues such as these	允许人们自由地选择表达这些美德
492	if they want to.	如果他们想的话
493	So you don't need the idea	所以你不需要这个想法
494	of a non-voluntary particular moral obligation	非自愿的特定道德义务
495	to capture the moral force	抓住道德力量
496	of community	社区
497	values.	数值。
498	Where's Julia?	茱莉亚呢?
499	So, did I summarize	所以,我总结
500	that fairly?	公平吗?
501	Julia actually is in line with	茱莉亚其实是符合的
502	what Rawls says about this very topic.	罗尔斯对这个话题的看法
503	You weren't aware of that.	你不知道这一点。
504	You came up with it on your own.	你自己想出来的
505	That's pretty good.	这是相当好的。
506	Rawls says when he's discussing political obligation,	罗尔斯说当他讨论政治义务时
507	he says it's one thing if someone	他说如果有人
508	runs for office	运行到办公室
509	or enlist in the military, they're making a voluntary choice,	或入伍, 他们正在自愿选择,
510	but Rawls says there is, I believe, no political obligation, strictly speaking, for citizens	但罗尔斯说,我认为,严格地说,公民没有政治义务
511	generally	一般情况
512	because it's not clear what is the requisite binding action	因为它不清楚什么是必要的约束行动
513	and who has performed it.	是谁干的?
514	So Rawls acknowledges	所以罗尔斯承认
515	that for ordinary citizens	适用于普通公民
516	there is no political obligation	没有政治义务
517	except	除外
518	insofar as	关于
519	some particular citizen	某些特定公民
520	willingly, through an act of consent,	自愿通过同意行为,
521	undertakes	承诺
522	or chooses such an obligation.	或选择这种义务。
523	That's in line	这是排队的
524	with Julia's point.	有茱莉亚的观点。
525	It's related to another objection	这和另一个反对有关
526	that people have raised,	是众人所创造的,
527	which is	这是
528	it's perfectly possible to recognize particular obligations to one's family or to one's country,	完全可以承认对家庭或国家的特殊义务,
529	provided	提供
530	honoring those obligations doesn't require you to violate any of the natural duties	履行这些义务并不需要你违反任何自然义务
531	or requirements of universal respect for persons, quay persons.	或要求普遍尊重人、准人。
532	So that's consistent with the	所以,这是符合的
533	to express a loyalty to our country or to our people or to our family, provided we don't do any injustice	只要我们不犯任何不公
534	within the framework, acknowledging the priority that is	在框架范围内,承认优先事项
535	of the universal	联合国
536	duties.	职责。
537	The one objection that I didn't mention is the view of those who say	我唯一没提的反对意见是那些说
538	that obligations of membership really are a kind of collective selfishness,	成员的义务确实是一种集体自私,
539	why should we honor them?	我们为什么要尊重他们?
540	Isn't it just a kind of prejudice?	这不是一种偏见吗?
541	So, what I'd like to do, perhaps if those of you	所以,我想做什么,也许你们这些
542	who have agreed,	他们已同意,
543	who wrote and who have agreed to press these objections,	谁写了,谁同意这些反对,
544	perhaps if you could gather down	也许如果你可以聚集下来
545	all together, we'll form a team	我们一起组成一个团队
546	as we did once before, and we'll	就像我们以前一样,我们会
547	see if you can respond to those who want to defend	看看你能不能回应那些想辩护的人
548	patriotism conceived as a communal obligation.	爱国主义被认为是一项共同义务。
549	Now,	现在,
550	there were a number of people	当时有很多人
551	who argued in	谁是争论
552	defense	辩护
553	of patriotism	爱国主义
554	as the communitarian	作为共产主义者
555	view conceives it, so let me go down now and join the critics,	所以让我下楼加入批评者行列
556	the critics of communitarianism, if there's	共产主义的批评者,如果有的话
557	a microphone that we could use somewhere.	麦克风,我们可以用它
558	OK, thanks Kate.	好的,谢谢凯特。
559	Who, as the critics of patriotism, communal patriotism,	作为爱国主义、社区爱国主义的批评者,
560	gather their forces here?	把他们的军队召集到这里?
561	Patrick, if you want to, you can join as well, or Rena,	帕特里克,如果你愿意,你也可以加入, 或者蕾娜,
562	others who have spoken or addressed this question are free to join in.	已经发言或谈到这个问题的其他人可以自由加入。
563	But I would like to hear now from those of you who defend	但我现在想听听你们中那些
564	patriotism	爱国主义
565	and defend it	并捍卫它
566	as	作为
567	a moral obligation	道德义务
568	that can't be	这不可能
569	translated back into	翻译为
570	purely consent-based	纯粹基于同意
571	terms,	条件,
572	can't be translated into liberal	不能翻译为自由主义
573	terms.	条件。
574	Where's A.J.	哪里是A. J. 。。
575	Kumar?	库马?
576	A. J. , (英语).
577	everybody seems to know you.	大家都好像认识你
578	Alright, let's hear from A.J.	好吧,让我们从A. J.
579	You said, in the same way I feel I owe more to my family than to the general	你说过,同样地,我觉得我欠我家人而不是将军
580	community, I owe more to my country than to humanity in general,	我欠我的国家比欠整个人类的还多
581	because my country holds a great stake in my identity.	因为我国对我的身份有重大关系
582	It is not prejudice for me to love my country	我热爱祖国是没有偏见的
583	unless it is prejudice for me to love my parents more than somebody else's.	除非我更爱父母而不是别人的偏见
584	So A.J., what would you say to this group?	A. J. 你会对这群人说什么?
585	Stand up.	站起来
586	I think that there's some fundamental	我认为有些基本
587	moral obligation that comes from a communitarian responsibility to	由社区对
588	people and groups that form your identity.	组成你身份的人和团体
589	I mean, even,	我是说,甚至,
590	like I'll give the example that, you know,	就像我会举个例子,你知道,
591	there are a lot of things about our government right now that I'm not in	现在政府有很多事情,我不在
592	favor of, but part of my identity is that	喜欢,但我的一部分身份是
593	America values a free society where we can	美国珍视自由社会,我们可以
594	object to certain things, and I think that's an expression of patriotism as	对某些东西持反对态度,我认为这是爱国主义的表达,
595	well.	不错
596	And,	还有,
597	you know, I go back to the parent example, or even at Harvard, I think,	你知道,我回到父母的例子, 甚至哈佛,我想,
598	you know,	你知道吗?
599	I owe more to my roommates because they make up my identity than I do to the	我欠我的室友更多的,因为他们组成了我的身份比我做
600	Harvard community as a whole, and I think that applies to	整个哈佛社区我认为这适用于
601	our country, because there are certain things that growing up here, yes, we	我们的国家,因为有某些东西在这里长大,是的,我们
602	can't choose it, we can't choose our parents,	我们不能选择它,我们不能选择我们的父母,
603	things like that, but it makes up part of our identity.	类似的事情,但它构成了我们的一部分身份。
604	Okay, who would like to take that on?	好吧,谁愿意承担呢?
605	Mike?	迈克?
606	Yeah, about the obligation to others,	是啊,关于对他人的义务,
607	simply by virtue of	只是因为
608	being in their...	在他们...
609	being influenced by them.	受到他们的影响。
610	I'm a German citizen, and if I had been born	我是德国公民如果我出生
611	80 years earlier, then	80年前,那时
612	I would have been a citizen of Nazi Germany, and	我本来是纳粹德国的公民,
613	for some reason, I just don't think that I would	出于某种原因,我只是不认为我会
614	have to feel obligated	不得不感到义务
615	towards Germany	德国
616	because I benefited from actions of Nazis.	因为我从纳粹的行动中获益
617	I mean, I guess my response to that would be, you have	我的意思是,我想我的反应是,你已经
618	hundreds of thousands of protesters in the United States right now	现在美国有数十万抗议者
619	who hold up signs that say peace is patriotic,	他们举出许多迹象,说和平是爱国的,
620	and I'm sure there are people in this room who don't agree with that.	我敢肯定,在这个房间里有人不同意这一点。
621	I personally do,	我个人知道
622	and I would say that they're strongly objecting to basically	我想说他们强烈反对
623	everything the Bush administration is doing right now,	布什政府现在所做的一切
624	but they still consider themselves loving their country because they're	但他们仍然认为自己爱自己的国家,因为他们
625	furthering the cause of what they see is best for the country, and I	推进他们所见的事业,对全国来说是件好事,我
626	tend to agree with that as a patriotic movement.	作为爱国运动,人们倾向于同意这一点。
627	Well, but how is that then?	那怎么样?
628	How do you still favor your country?	你怎么会还喜欢国家?
629	How is that still patriotic?	这怎么还爱国呢?
630	I mean, isn't that more a sentimental attachment?	我的意思是,这不是更感伤的恋情?
631	Where's the obligation there?	义务在哪里?
632	Not to bring this back to John Locke, but	不是为了把这个带回约翰·洛克,但
633	I'd like to bring this back to John Locke.	我想把这个带回约翰洛克
634	So, I mean,	所以,我是说,
635	in his conception of	他的构想
636	when people join society,	当人们加入社会,
637	there's still some outlet.	还有些出口
638	If you're not satisfied with your society,	如果你对自己的社会不满意
639	you do have a means of exit,	你确实有出路,
640	but even though we had a lot of concerns about how	但是,尽管我们有很多担心如何
641	you're born in and it's not very feasible,	你出生于这里并不可行
642	he still provides that option.	他仍然提供这个选择。
643	If we want to say that your obligation to society is a moral one,	如果我们想说你对社会的义务是道德义务,
644	that means that prior to	这意味着在
645	knowing exactly what that society is going to be like,	确切地知道社会会是什么样子,
646	or what your position is going to be in that society,	或者你在这个社会的地位是什么,
647	that means that you have a binding obligation to, like,	这意味着你有义务,比如,
648	a completely unknown body that could be, you know,	一个完全未知的尸体可能是,你知道,
649	completely foreign to all of your personal beliefs or, you know,	完全陌生于你所有的个人信仰,或者,你知道,
650	what you would hold to be.	你会保持什么。
651	Do you think that that kind of communal obligation or patriotism	你认为这种集体义务或爱国主义
652	means writing the community	意思是写社区
653	a blank moral check?	空白的道德检查?
654	Basically, yeah.	没错
655	Like, I think that we can, you know,	比如,我认为我们可以,你知道,
656	I think it's reasonable to say that	我觉得这样说很合理
657	as you grow and as you develop within that community	当你在社区里成长和发展时
658	that you acquire some type of obligation	获得某种义务
659	based on reciprocity,	基于对等原则,
660	but to say that you have a moral obligation, I think,	但我想说你有道德义务
661	requires a stronger justification.	需要一个更强有力的理由。
662	Well, anyone else like to address that?	还有谁喜欢说这个?
663	I guess we could say that you could argue that you're	и稱и弧 弧
664	morally obliged to society by the fact that	社会道德义务,因为
665	there is this reciprocity.	这是对等的。
666	I think it's the idea that, you know, we participate in society,	我觉得我们参与社会
667	we pay our taxes, we vote.	我们交税,我们投票
668	This is why we could say that we owe something to society.	这就是为什么我们可以说,我们欠社会的东西。
669	But beyond that, I don't think there's anything inherent	但除此之外,我不认为有什么内在的
670	in the fact that we are members of the society itself	因为我们是社会本身的成员
671	that we owe it anything.	我们欠它什么。
672	I think insofar as the society gives us something,	我认为,从社会给我们的东西,
673	gives us protection, safety, security,	给我们保护安全保障
674	then we owe the society something,	然后我们欠社会一些东西,
675	but nothing beyond what we give the society.	但是除了我们给社会的东西外,别无他法。
676	Who wants to take that on?	谁想穿这个?
677	Rahul?	拉胡尔?
678	I don't think we	我不认为我们
679	give the community a blank moral check	给社区一个空白的道德检查
680	in that sense.	从这个意义上说
681	I think we only give it a blank moral check	我想我们只给它一个空洞的道德检查
682	when we advocate our sense	当我们倡导我们的感觉
683	of civic responsibility	公民责任
684	and when we say that the debate doesn't matter	当我们说辩论不重要时
685	because patriotism is a vice.	因为爱国主义是一种恶习。
686	I think that patriotism is important	我认为爱国主义很重要
687	because it gives us a sense of community,	因为它给我们一种社区感,
688	a sense of common civic virtue	一种共同的公民美德感
689	that we can engage in the issues.	我们能参与解决问题。
690	Even if you don't agree	就算你不同意也一样
691	with the way the government is acting,	政府的行为方式
692	you can still	你还是可以的
693	love your country and hate the way it's acting.	爱你的国家,恨它的行为方式。
694	And I think because out of that love	我想是因为爱情
695	of country,	国家
696	you can debate with other people	你可以和其他人辩论
697	and have respect for their views,	并尊重他们的意见,
698	but still engage in the debate.	但仍参与辩论。
699	If you just say that	如果你只是说
700	patriotism is a vice,	爱国是恶行
701	you drop out of that debate	你退出辩论
702	and you cede the ground to people	你让土地给别人
703	who are more fundamentalist, who have a	他们更原教旨主义, 他们有一个
704	stronger view and who may coerce	更强的观点和谁可能强迫
705	the community.	社区。
706	Instead, we should engage the other members	相反,我们应该让其他成员参与
707	of the community on that same	社区在同样的情况下
708	moral ground.	道德基础。
709	What we hear from Ajay and Rahul	阿杰和拉胡尔的消息
710	is a very pluralistic,	是一个非常多元化,
711	argumentative,	争论,
712	critically minded patriotism.	充满爱国心
713	Whereas what we hear from	而我们听到的
714	Ike and the critics	艾克和批评者
715	of patriotism here is the worry	爱国主义在这里是担心的
716	that to take	这要拿
717	patriotic obligation in a	爱国义务
718	communal way, seriously,	社区的方式, 说真的,
719	involves a kind of	涉及一种
720	loyalty that doesn't	忠诚,不
721	let us just pick and choose	让我们选择
722	among the beliefs or actions	信仰或行动
723	or practices of our country.	或我国的做法。
724	What more,	还有呢
725	what's left of loyalty	剩下的忠诚
726	if all we're talking about,	如果我们在谈论的一切,
727	Ajay and Rahul, if all we're talking	阿杰和拉胡尔,如果我们在谈论
728	about is loyalty	关于忠诚
729	to principles of justice that may happen	实现可能发生的正义原则
730	to be embodied	待编
731	in our community or not,	无论是否在我们社区,
732	as the case may be, and if not, then we can	如果不是的话,我们可以
733	reject its course.	拒绝它的路线。
734	I don't know, I've sort of given	我不知道,我有点给
735	a reply, I got carried away, I'm sorry.	回答一下,我心烦意乱,对不起
736	Go ahead, Julia.	继续,茱莉亚。
737	Yeah, I think that	是啊,我觉得
738	patriotism, you need to define what	爱国,你需要定义什么
739	that is.	这是。
740	It sounds like, you know, you would normally	这听起来像,你知道, 你通常会
741	think that we are given a more weak definition	认为我们的定义更弱
742	here, patriotism amongst us, but it almost sounds	在这里,我们的爱国主义, 但几乎听起来
743	like your definition is merely to have	就像你的定义只是拥有
744	some sort of civic involvement in debating	某种公民参与辩论
745	within your society, and I think that that	在你的社会中,我认为
746	kind of undermines maybe some of the moral worth	那种破坏一些道德价值
747	of patriotism as a virtue as well.	爱国也是一种美德
748	I think if you can consent to a stronger	我想如果你同意一个强者
749	form of patriotism if you want, that's	爱国主义的形式,如果你想,这就是
750	a stronger, I guess, more obligation than	我想比起
751	even what you're suggesting.	即使是你建议的那样
752	What we really need	我们真正需要的
753	to sharpen the issue is an	使问题更加突出
754	example from the defenders	人权维护者的例子
755	of communitarianism	社区主义
756	of a case where	案件,如果
757	loyalty can actually	忠诚其实可以
758	compete with and	竞争和
759	possibly outweigh	可能超过
760	universal principles of justice.	普遍正义原则。
761	Isn't that what,	这不是什么,
762	that's the test they really need	那是他们真正需要的测试
763	to meet, isn't it?	见面,不是吗?
764	Alright, so that's the test you need	好吧,这就是你需要的测试
765	to meet, or any	会见,或任何
766	among you who would like to defend	你们中谁想辩护,
767	obligations of membership	成员义务
768	or solidarity independent	或独立团结
769	of ones that happen	发生的事情
770	to embody	一、导言
771	just principles.	只是原则。
772	Who has an example	谁有榜样
773	of a kind of loyalty	一种忠诚
774	that can and should	能够而且应该
775	compete with	与
776	universal moral claims, respect	普遍道德要求、尊重
777	for persons?	为人?
778	Go ahead.	来吧。
779	Yeah, if I were working	是啊,如果我在工作的话
780	on a problem set, for example,	例如,关于一个问题集,
781	and I saw that my roommate was	我看见我的室友
782	cheating, that might be	作弊,这也许是
783	a bad thing for him to do,	对他来说是个坏事
784	but I wouldn't turn him in.	但我不会告发他
785	You would not	你不会
786	turn him in.	告发他
787	I wouldn't turn him in, and I think that	我不会告发他,我想
788	I would argue that's the right thing to do	我会说这是正确的事情
789	because of my obligation to him, you know.	因为我对他的义务,你知道的。
790	It may be wrong, but that's what I would	可能是错的,但这就是我要的
791	do, and I think that's what most people would do	做,我想这是大多数人会做的
792	as well.	临Τ
793	Alright, that's, now there's a	好吧,这是,现在有一个
794	fair test.	公平测试。
795	He's not	他没有
796	slipping out by saying he's invoking	溜出去说,他在援引
797	in the name of community some universal	以社区的名义一些普遍
798	principles of justice.	司法原则。
799	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
800	Stay there.	别动
801	What's your name?	你叫什么来着?
802	It's Dan.	谓丹曰.
803	Dan.	丹语.
804	So,	这么说
805	what do people think about Dan's case?	人们怎么看待丹的案子?
806	That's a harder case for	这更难办
807	the ethic of loyalty, isn't it?	忠诚的道德,不是吗?
808	But a truer test?	但更真实的测试?
809	How many agree with Dan?	有多少人同意丹的意见?
810	So, loyalty,	所以,忠诚,
811	Dan, loyalty has its	丹,忠心有义
812	part, if that's it.	部分,如果这是它。
813	How many disagree with Dan?	有多少人和丹意见不一?
814	Peggy.	佩吉,你好吗?
815	Well, I agree with Dan,	我同意丹的话
816	but I agree that it's a choice that we	但我同意这是我们的选择
817	make, but it's not necessarily right	做,但不一定对
818	or wrong.	或错。
819	I mean, I'm agreeing that I'm going to	我的意思是,我同意我会
820	make the wrong choice because I'm going to	做错选择,因为我要
821	choose my roommate, but I also recognize	选择我的室友但我也认得
822	that choice isn't morally right.	这种选择在道德上是不正确的。
823	So, you're still translating	你还在翻译
824	even Dan's loyalty, you're saying, well,	即使是丹的忠诚,你说,嗯,
825	that's a matter of choice.	那是个选择
826	But, what's the	但是,这是什么
827	right thing to do?	这样做对吗?
828	Most people put up their hands saying	大多数人举起手说
829	Dan would be right to stand	丹应该能站起来
830	by his roommate and not	被他的室友而不是他们
831	turn him in.	告发他
832	Go ahead.	来吧。
833	Also, I think as a	而且,我认为作为一个
834	roommate you have insider information	室友,你有内幕信息
835	and that might not	可能不会
836	be something you want to use.	成为你想使用的东西。
837	That might be	这可能是
838	something unfair to hold	不公平的东西
839	against.	反对。
840	You know, you're spending that much	你知道,你花这么多钱
841	time with a roommate.	时间与室友。
842	Obviously, you're going to	显然,你会
843	learn things about him and	了解他的东西
844	I don't think it's fair to reveal that	我觉得不公道
845	to a greater community.	给一个更大的社区。
846	But, it's loyalty, Vojtek.	但是,这是忠诚,沃伊特克。
847	You agree with Dan that loyalty	你同意丹的忠诚
848	is the ethic at stake here.	这关系到道德
849	Absolutely.	当然
850	You don't have a duty	你没有责任
851	to tell the truth, to report someone	说出真相,报告某人
852	who cheated?	谁出轨了?
853	Not if you're	如果你是的话
854	advantaged into getting that kind	喜欢得到这种东西
855	of information.	信息通报。
856	Before	在此之前
857	our critics of	我们的批评者
858	patriotism leave,	爱国主义的离开,
859	I want to give you another version,	我想给你另一个版本,
860	a more public example	一个更公开的例子
861	of what we, I guess we	我想我们...
862	should call it Dan's dilemma.	应该称之为丹的困境。
863	Dan's dilemma of loyalty.	丹的忠诚困境.
864	And I want to get the reaction of people	我想得到人们的反应
865	to this.	这个
866	This came up	来了
867	a few years ago in Massachusetts.	几年前在马萨诸塞州
868	Does anyone know who this	有人知道这是谁吗?
869	man is?	是吗?
870	Billy	比尔
871	Bulger.	博尔格
872	That's right.	没错
873	Who is	谁
874	Billy Bulger?	比利・布格?
875	He was president of the	他是总统
876	Massachusetts State Senate for many years.	马萨诸塞州参议院多年.
877	One of the most powerful politicians in	是最强大的政治家之一
878	Massachusetts.	马萨诸塞州。
879	And then he became	然后他变成了
880	president of the University of Massachusetts.	马萨诸塞大学校长.
881	Now,	现在,
882	Billy Bulger 你听说了吗?
883	him that bears on Dan's dilemma?	他承受着丹的困境?
884	Billy Bulger	比利・布格
885	has a brother	有个哥哥
886	named Whitey Bulger.	名为怀特·布格。
887	And this is Whitey Bulger.	这是怀特·布格
888	His brother Whitey	他的弟弟怀特尼,他现在已经...
889	is on the FBI's	是联邦调查局的
890	most wanted list.	大部分通缉名单。
891	Alleged to be	据称
892	a notorious gang	臭名昭著的黑帮
893	leader in Boston.	在波士顿的领导。
894	Responsible for many	负责很多
895	murders and now a	谋杀,现在
896	fugitive from justice.	越狱
897	But when	但何时
898	the US attorney	美国律师
899	they called	他们叫
900	Billy Bulger	比利・布格
901	then the president of the University of	然后是大学校长
902	Massachusetts before the grand	马萨诸塞州在盛大之前
903	jury and wanted information	陪审团和通缉犯
904	on the whereabouts of his brother.	关于他弟弟的下落
905	This fugitive.	这个逃犯。
906	And he refused	他拒绝了
907	to give it.	给它。
908	US attorney said,	美国律师说,
909	just to be clear, Mr.	说清楚点,先生
910	Bulger, you feel more loyalty to your brother	博格,你对你哥哥更忠诚
911	than to the people of the commonwealth	比联邦的人民还重要
912	of Massachusetts?	马萨诸塞州?
913	And here's what Billy Bulger said,	这是比利·布格说的
914	I never thought of it that way.	我从来没这么想过
915	But I do have a loyalty to my brother.	但我对我哥哥有忠诚
916	I care about him.	我关心他
917	I hope that I'm never helpful to anyone	我希望我永远不会帮助任何人
918	against him.	对他不利。
919	I don't have an	我没有
920	obligation to help anyone	帮助任何人的义务
921	catch my brother.	抓住我弟弟抓住我弟弟抓住我弟弟
922	Dan, you would agree?	丹,你同意吗?
923	How many would agree with	有多少人会同意
924	the position of Billy	比利的立场
925	Bulger?	布格吗?
926	Let me give one other example	让我举个例子
927	and then we'll let the critics reply,	然后我们让批评者回答,
928	the critics of loyalty	忠诚的批评者
929	as we'll describe it.	正如我们将描述它。
930	Here's an even more fateful	这更是命中注定
931	example from a figure	图表示例
932	in American history.	在美国历史上。
933	Robert E. Lee.	罗伯特·E·李.
934	Now, Robert	现在,罗伯特
935	E. Lee on the eve of the Civil War	E. 李在内战前夕
936	was an officer of the Union Army.	曾是联合军军官.
937	He opposed secession,	他反对分离,
938	in fact regarded it as treason.	事实上,这是叛国罪。
939	When war loomed,	当战争来临时,
940	Lincoln offered Lee	林肯给了李
941	to be the commanding general of the Union	成为联盟的将军
942	Army.	陆军
943	And Lee refused.	而李拒绝.
944	And he described in a letter to his	他在他的一封信中描述了
945	sons why he refused.	儿子们为什么拒绝
946	With all my devotion to the Union	以我对联盟的忠诚
947	he wrote, I have not been able to make up	他写道,我无法弥补
948	my mind to raise	我养大了
949	my hand against my relatives,	我的手对着我的亲戚们,
950	my children, my home.	我的孩子们我的家
951	By which he meant Virginia.	他指的是弗吉尼亚
952	The Union is dissolved.	联盟解散.
953	I shall return to my native state	我会回到祖国
954	and share the miseries of my people,	并分舍我的宗族的忧患,
955	save in her defense.	在她的辩护。
956	I will draw my sword	我会拔剑
957	no more.	没有了。
958	Now here's a real test,	现在有一个真正的测试,
959	Dan, for your principle of loyalty.	丹,为了你的忠诚原则
960	Because	因为
961	here is the cause	这是原因
962	of the war against	战争结束后
963	not only to save the Union but against	不仅拯救联盟,而且反对
964	slavery.	奴隶制。
965	And Lee is going to fight for Virginia	李会为弗吉尼亚而战
966	even though he doesn't share	虽然他不分享
967	the desire of the	人类的愿望
968	southern states to secede.	南方诸州分封.
969	Now the communitarian would say	现在共产主义者会说
970	there is something admirable	有些东西值得钦佩
971	in that.	在那个。
972	Whether or not the decision was ultimately right,	无论最终决定是否正确,
973	there's something admirable.	有件令人钦佩的事
974	And the communitarian would say we can't even make sense.	共产主义者会说我们根本讲不通
975	You know, we can't make	你知道,我们不能做
976	sense of Lee's	李的感觉
977	dilemma as a moral dilemma	作为道德困境的两难处境
978	unless we acknowledge	除非我们承认
979	that the claim of loyalty	忠诚的主张
980	arising from his sense of narrative	他的叙述感
981	of who he is	他是谁?
982	is a moral, not just	是道德的,不仅仅是
983	sentimental, emotional	情感和情感情感情感
984	tug.	拖车。
985	Who would like to respond?	谁愿意回应?
986	To Dan's loyalty,	对丹的忠诚
987	to Billy Bulger's loyalty,	为了比利·布格的忠诚
988	or to Robert E. Lee's loyalty to Virginia?	还是为了罗伯特·E·李对弗吉尼亚的忠诚?
989	What do you say, Julia?	你觉得呢,朱莉娅?
990	Okay, well, I think that these are some	好吧,我想这是一些
991	classic examples of, you know,	经典的例子,你知道,
992	multiple spheres of influence in that you have	你拥有的多重势力范围
993	conflicting communities that your family	你们家族的矛盾社区
994	and your country.	还有你的国家
995	I think that's one reason why	我想这就是为什么
996	the idea of choice in your obligation	义务中的选择思想
997	is so important because how	如此重要,因为
998	else can you resolve this?	否则你能解决吗?
999	You have,	你有过
1000	if you're morally obligated and there's no way	如果你有道德义务,没有办法
1001	out of this need for loyalty	为了忠诚
1002	to both communities, you're	对两个社区,你
1003	trapped.	被困着
1004	There's nothing you can do.	无所施设.
1005	You have to	你必须
1006	make a choice.	做出一个选择。
1007	And	还有
1008	I think that being able to choose based on	我认为能够根据
1009	other characteristics and merely	其他特征和仅仅
1010	the arbitrary fact that you're a member of this community	专横的事实你是一个社区的成员
1011	is important.	这一点很重要。
1012	Otherwise, it's left, I guess,	否则,它就剩了,我想
1013	randomness.	随机性。
1014	Well,	那个
1015	Julia, the issue isn't whether these,	茱莉亚,问题不是这些...
1016	whether Dan makes a choice	丹是否做出选择
1017	or Billy Bulger or Robert E. Lee.	或比利·布格或罗伯特·E·李.
1018	Of course, they make a choice.	当然,他们做出了选择。
1019	The question is	问题是
1020	on what grounds, on what	基于什么理由,基于什么
1021	principle should they choose?	他们应该选择原则吗?
1022	The communitarian doesn't deny that there's	共产主义者并不否认
1023	a choice to be made.	做个选择
1024	The question is	问题是
1025	which choice on what	哪个选择是什么
1026	grounds and should loyalty	理由和忠诚
1027	as such weigh?	这么重?
1028	Andre, now you want to,	安德烈,现在你想,
1029	all right, go ahead.	好吧,继续。
1030	What do you	你怎么样
1031	say?	说什么?
1032	Well, one of the things	嗯,其中一个东西
1033	we've noticed in the three examples is	我们从三个例子中注意到
1034	that the people have all chosen the	人民都选择了
1035	most immediate community of which they're	他们最直接的社区
1036	a part, the more local one.	一个部分,越本地的。
1037	And I think there's something to be said for that.	我觉得有话要说
1038	It's not just random.	非唯随机.
1039	I mean, there doesn't seem to be a conflict	我的意思是,似乎没有冲突
1040	because they know which one is more important.	因为他们知道哪个更重要
1041	And it's their family over	他们的家人结束了
1042	the Ecten class,	埃克滕阶级,
1043	their state, over their country,	他们的国家,
1044	and their family over the Commonwealth	和他们的家庭超越英联邦
1045	of Massachusetts.	马萨诸塞州
1046	┮и
1047	think that's the answer to which	这才是答案
1048	is more important.	更重要的是,
1049	You think that the local,	你觉得本地人
1050	the more particular is	更特别的是
1051	always the weightier morally,	总是在道德上更重,
1052	Andre?	安德鲁?
1053	Well, I mean, there seems to be	嗯,我的意思是,似乎有
1054	a trend in the three cases.	这三种情况的趋势。
1055	I	一、导言
1056	would agree with that, I think.	我认为,他同意这一点。
1057	And I think most	我觉得大部分
1058	of us would agree that your family	我们同意你的家人
1059	takes precedence over	优先于
1060	the United States, perhaps.	也许是美国
1061	Which is why you go with Dan.	这就是为什么你和丹去。
1062	Dan, loyalty	丹,忠诚
1063	to the roommate over	给室友的
1064	Ecten and the truth.	爱克腾与真言.
1065	Yeah, exactly.	没错
1066	I would, because, I mean,	我会,因为,我的意思是,
1067	I mean truth-telling, not the truth	我是说说真话,不是说真话
1068	of Ecten.	页:1
1069	Yes.	对
1070	All right.	好吧,我们走。
1071	So, we understand.	所以,我们理解。
1072	Yes.	对
1073	But on the same example in terms	但在同一方面
1074	of family, you had cases in the Civil War	家庭,你有案件在内战
1075	where brother was pitted against brother on both	在那里,弟弟和弟弟都相遇过
1076	sides of the war where they chose country	战争的一方他们选择国家
1077	instead of family.	而不是家人的爱
1078	┮и
1079	think the exact same war shows that	同样的战争表明
1080	different people have different means of making	不同的人有不同的制作方法
1081	these choices and that there is no one	这些选择, 没有人
1082	set of values or one set of morality	一套价值观或一套道德
1083	that communitarians can stick to.	共产主义者可以坚持。
1084	And personally, I think that's the biggest problem with	我个人认为这是最大的问题
1085	communitarians, that we don't have one	共产主义者,我们没有
1086	set of standard moral obligations.	一套标准道德义务。
1087	And tell me your name.	告诉我你的名字。
1088	Samantha.	萨曼莎
1089	So, Samantha,	所以,萨曼莎,
1090	you agree	你同意吗?
1091	with Patrick, Patrick's point the other	和帕特里克,帕特里克的指点另一个
1092	day, that there may be,	在那日,或许有,
1093	if we allow obligations to be	如果我们允许义务
1094	defined by community	由社区定义
1095	identification or membership,	身份或成员资格,
1096	they may conflict,	他们可能会发生冲突,
1097	they may overlap,	它们可能会重叠,
1098	they may compete, and there is	他们可以竞争,有
1099	no clear principle.	没有明确的原则。
1100	Andre says there is a clear principle,	安德烈说有一个明确的原则,
1101	the most particular.	最特别的
1102	The other day, Nicola, who is sitting	前几天,尼可拉,他坐着
1103	over here, where is Nicola, said,	在这里, 在哪里尼古拉说,
1104	the most universal.	最普遍的。
1105	You're saying, Samantha,	你是说,萨曼莎,
1106	the scale of the community as	社区的规模
1107	such can't be the decisive	不可能是决定性的
1108	moral factor.	道德因素。
1109	So, there	所以,这里
1110	has to be some other moral	一定有别的道德
1111	judgment.	判决。
1112	Alright, let's first, let's let our	好吧,让我们先,让我们
1113	critics of communal patriotism,	批评社区爱国主义,
1114	let's express our	让我们表达我们
1115	appreciation and thank them for	感谢并感谢他们
1116	their having stood up and	他们站起来,
1117	responded to these arguments	对这些论点的答复
1118	to find the issue.	找到问题。
1119	Let's turn	我们转身
1120	to the implications for justice	对司法的影响
1121	of the positions that we've	我们的立场
1122	heard discussed here.	听到这里的讨论。
1123	One of the worries	一个担心
1124	underlying	基础
1125	these multiple objections	这些多重反对
1126	to the idea	想法
1127	of loyalty or membership	忠诚或成员资格
1128	as having independent moral weight	具有独立道德价值
1129	is that it seems to argue	是它似乎争论
1130	that there is no way	没有办法
1131	of finding principles of justice	找到公正原则
1132	that are detached	脱落的
1133	from conceptions	从怀孕开始
1134	of the good life	过着美好的生活
1135	as they may be lived	他们可以活着
1136	in any particular	在任何特定情况下
1137	community.	社区。
1138	Suppose the communitarian argument	假设社区论点
1139	is right.	没错
1140	Suppose the priority	假设优先
1141	of the right over the good can't	右边的好,不能
1142	be sustained.	持续。
1143	Suppose instead	假设
1144	that justice and rights	司法与权利
1145	unavoidably are	难免是
1146	bound up with	与
1147	conceptions of the good.	善的概念。
1148	Does that mean	这是否意味着
1149	that justice	正义
1150	is simply	很简单
1151	a creature of convention	公约的产物
1152	of the values that happen	数值
1153	to prevail in any given	在任何特定情况下
1154	community at any given time?	在任何特定时间?
1155	One of the	一个
1156	writings we have	我们的著作
1157	among the communitarian critics	在社区批评者中
1158	is by Michael Walzer.	是迈克尔·瓦尔泽
1159	He draws the implications	他画的意味
1160	of justice this way.	以这种方式伸张正义。
1161	Justice is relative to	司法相对于
1162	social meanings.	社会意义。
1163	A given	给定
1164	society is just	社会只是
1165	if its substantive life	如果它的实质性生活
1166	is lived in a certain way,	以某种方式居住,
1167	in a way that is faithful	以忠诚的方式
1168	to the shared understandings	共同谅解
1169	of the members.	成员名单。
1170	So Walzer's account	所以瓦尔泽的账户
1171	seems to bear out	似乎证明
1172	the worry that	担心
1173	if we can't find independent	如果我们找不到独立
1174	principles of justice, independent	司法、司法、独立和
1175	that is from conceptions of the good	那是从善良的观念出发的,
1176	that prevail in any given community,	在任何特定社区都占上风,
1177	that we're	我们是
1178	simply left with justice being	正义在眼前
1179	a matter of fidelity or	忠诚问题或
1180	faithfulness to the shared	忠诚于共同
1181	understandings or values	理解或价值
1182	or conventions that prevail in any given	或任何特定公约中
1183	society at any given time.	社会在任何特定时间。
1184	But is that an adequate	但是,这是一个适当的
1185	way of thinking	思维方式
1186	about justice?	关于正义?
1187	Well, let's take	好吧,我们走
1188	a look at a short	一看一个短
1189	clip from the	剪辑从
1190	(原始内容存档于2018-09-21). Documental Eyes on the Prize.
1191	It goes back in the 1950s	1950年代开始
1192	in the South.	南边
1193	Here are some	这里有些
1194	situated	地点
1195	American Southerners	美国南方人
1196	who believe in the tradition	他们信仰传统,
1197	in the shared understandings	共同谅解
1198	of segregation.	隔离。
1199	Listen to the arguments	听这些论点
1200	they make about loyalty	他们的忠诚
1201	and tradition and see	以及传统和视觉
1202	if they don't make	如果他们不做
1203	you uneasy	烦死了
1204	about tying arguments	关于绑定参数
1205	about justice to the shared	关于公道与公道
1206	understandings or traditions	理解或传统
1207	that prevail in any given	在任何特定情况下
1208	society at the moment.	现在的社会。
1209	Let's run the	让我们运行
1210	clip.	图标。
1211	Now that we mistreated them	现在我们虐待他们
1212	and that we must change,	我们必须改变,
1213	and these changes are coming faster	这些变化会更快
1214	than I expected,	比我预期的,
1215	and I'm required to	而我必须
1216	make decisions	作出决定
1217	on a basis of	以
1218	a new way	一条新路
1219	of thinking, and it's difficult.	思考,这是困难的。
1220	It's difficult for me, it's difficult	对我来说很困难,很困难
1221	for all Southerners.	给所有南方人
1222	Well, there you have it.	好吧,你在这里。
1223	Narrative	叙述
1224	selves, situated selves,	自己,定位自己,
1225	invoking tradition.	引用传统。
1226	Doesn't that show us	这不表明我们
1227	that justice can't	正义无法伸张
1228	be tied to the shared understandings	与共识挂钩
1229	of goods that prevail in any	货物在任何
1230	given community at any given time?	在任何特定时间给予社区?
1231	Or is there a way of	或者有办法
1232	rescuing that claim	挽救索赔
1233	from this example?	从这个例子?
1234	Think about that question and we'll	想想这个问题,我们会
1235	return to it next time.	下次再来吧
1236	A lot more.	还有很多
1237	访问法官Harvard.org.
1238	It's the right thing to do.	谓之正法.
1239	Funding for this program is provided	为该方案提供资金
1240	by	由
1241	additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金
1242	. . ....

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P13 · 【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p13 12. 12.同性婚姻的争论 (P13)

【哈佛大学】最受B站学生欢迎的课程：公正 # 这堂课对我的价值观和人生观产生了深远影响 p13 12. 12.同性婚姻的争论 (P13)

发布于 2026-08-14 · 时长 54:49

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:09	We ended last time talking about the narrative conception of the self.	我们上次讨论自我的叙事概念时结束了。
0:14	We were testing	我们在测试
0:16	the narrative conception of the self and the idea of obligations of solidarity or membership	自我的叙述概念和团结或成员资格义务的概念
0:25	that did not flow	没有流动
0:27	from consent	拒绝同意
0:29	that claimed us for reasons	要求我们的原因
0:31	unrelated to a contract or an agreement	与合同或协议无关
0:35	or a choice we may have made.	或者我们做了一个选择
0:37	And we were debating among ourselves whether there are any obligations of this kind	我们自己也在争论是否有这种义务
0:44	or whether all apparent obligations of solidarity and membership can be translated	或是否能够将所有明显的团结和成员义务化;

展开字幕全文（1114 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	We ended last time talking about the narrative conception of the self.	我们上次讨论自我的叙事概念时结束了。
2	We were testing	我们在测试
3	the narrative conception of the self and the idea of obligations of solidarity or membership	自我的叙述概念和团结或成员资格义务的概念
4	that did not flow	没有流动
5	from consent	拒绝同意
6	that claimed us for reasons	要求我们的原因
7	unrelated to a contract or an agreement	与合同或协议无关
8	or a choice we may have made.	或者我们做了一个选择
9	And we were debating among ourselves whether there are any obligations of this kind	我们自己也在争论是否有这种义务
10	or whether all apparent obligations of solidarity and membership can be translated	或是否能够将所有明显的团结和成员义务化;
11	into	输入
12	consent	同意书
13	or reciprocity or universal duty that we owe persons quay persons.	或对等或普遍义务,我们欠人
14	And then there were those who defended the idea of loyalty and of patriotism.	后来有人为忠诚和爱国主义的思想辩护.
15	So the idea of loyalty	所以,忠诚的想法
16	and of solidarity and of membership	团结和成员资格
17	gathered a certain kind of	收集了某种类型的
18	intuitive moral force in our discussion	我们讨论中的直觉道德力量
19	and then as we concluded	然后当我们得出结论
20	we considered what seems to be a pretty powerful counter example to that idea.	我们认为这似乎是一个相当强大的反面例子。
21	Namely	也就是说
22	the film of those southern segregationists	这些南方隔离主义者的电影
23	in the nineteen fifties	十九个五十年代
24	and they talked all about	他们谈论了很多
25	their traditions	他们的传统
26	their history, the way in which their identities were bound up with their	他们的历史,他们的身份与他们的
27	life history, do you remember that?	人生史,你还记得吗?
28	And what flowed from that history, from that narrative sense of identity for those southern	从历史中产生的东西, 从那些南方人的描述性认同感
29	segregationists?	隔离主义者?
30	They said we have to defend our way of life.	他们说我们必须捍卫我们的生活方式。
31	Is this a fatal or a decisive objection to the idea	这是致命还是决定性的反对
32	of the narrative conception of the self?	自我的叙事概念?
33	That's the question	这就是问题所在
34	we were left with.	我们被抛弃了
35	What I would like to do today	今天我想做什么就做什么吗?
36	is to advance an argument	是要推进一个论证
37	and see what you make of it.	且见其造化.
38	And let me tell you	让我告诉你
39	what that argument is.	这争论是什么。
40	I would like to defend	我想辩护
41	the narrative conception	叙事概念
42	of the person	该人
43	as against the voluntary conception.	与自愿概念相对应。
44	I would like	и稱
45	to defend	辩护
46	the idea that there are obligations of solidarity or membership.	认为有团结或成员资格的义务。
47	Then	礛
48	I want to suggest	我想建议
49	that there being such obligations	有这种义务
50	lends force to the idea	让这个想法生效
51	when we turn to justice	当我们走向正义
52	that arguments about justice	关于正义的争论
53	can't be detached, cannot be detached after all	不能脱离, 毕竟不能脱离
54	from questions of the good.	从好的问题。
55	But I wanted to distinguish two different ways	但我想区分两种不同的方式
56	in which justice might be tied to the good	正义可能与正义联系在一起
57	and argue for one of them.	并为其中一人辩护。
58	Now the	现在
59	voluntary conception of the person of Kant and Rawls we saw was powerful and liberating.	我们所看到的康德和罗尔斯人的自愿概念是强大和解放的。
60	A further appeal is its universal aspiration.	另一个呼吁是它的普遍愿望。
61	The idea of treating persons as persons	将人视为人的想法
62	without prejudice,	不带偏见,
63	without discrimination.	不歧视。
64	And I think that's what	我想这就是
65	led some among us to argue	导致我们当中有人争吵
66	that okay maybe there are obligations of membership but they are always subordinate, they must	也许有成员义务但他们总是从属,他们必须
67	always be subordinate	总是从属
68	to the duties that we have to human beings as such, the universal duties.	我们对人类的责任,即普遍的义务。
69	But is that right?	是吗?
70	If our encompassing loyalties should always take precedence	如果我们的忠诚永远优先
71	over more particular ones	更特别的
72	then the distinction between	然后,区分
73	friends and strangers	朋友和陌生人们
74	should ideally be overcome.	最好能够克服
75	Our special concern for the welfare of friends would be a kind of prejudice,	我们特别关注朋友的福利是一种偏见,
76	a measure of our distance from universal	衡量我们与世界的距离
77	human concern.	人类的关心。
78	But if you look closely	但是如果你仔细看
79	at that idea,	在那个想法,
80	what kind of a moral	什么样的道德
81	universe, what kind of moral imagination	宇宙,什么样的道德想象
82	would that lead you to?	这能让你找到吗?
83	The Enlightenment philosopher Montesquieu	启蒙主义哲学家蒙特斯基乌
84	gives perhaps the most powerful and I think ultimately the most honest account	说不定最有力量的人最终也是最诚实的人
85	of where this	这里
86	relentless	无情
87	universalizing	普及
88	tendency	趋势
89	leads the moral imagination.	领导着道德的想象力。
90	Here's how Montesquieu put it, he said, a truly virtuous man	这就是Montesquieu说的,他说, 一个真正的正直的人。
91	{\fnSIMHEI\fs22\1cHFFFFFF\3cHFF8000}帮助最遥远的陌生人 {\fnSIMHEI\fs22\1cHFFFFFF\3cHFF8000}以及他自己的朋友
92	And then he adds,	然后他又说,
93	listen to this,	听着
94	if men were perfectly virtuous	如果男人是纯洁的,
95	they wouldn't have friends.	他们不会有朋友。
96	But it's difficult to imagine a world	但很难想象世界
97	in which persons were so virtuous that they had no friends, only a universal	在其中,人是如此的善良, 他们没有朋友,
98	disposition to friendliness.	准备为方便。
99	The problem isn't	问题不是
100	simply	简单
101	that such a world would be difficult to bring about,	这样一个世界将难以实现,
102	that it's unrealistic.	这是不现实的。
103	The deeper problem	更深层的问题
104	is that	这是
105	such a world would be difficult to recognize	这样的世界是很难承认的
106	as a human world.	作为一个人类的世界。
107	The love of humanity is a noble sentiment	人类的爱是一种高尚的情感
108	but most of the time	但大多数时候
109	we live our lives by smaller solidarities.	我们靠较小的团结生活
110	This may reflect certain limits to the bounds of moral sympathy	这可能反映了道德同情限度的某些限制
111	but more important	但更重要的是,我们...
112	it reflects the fact	它反映了事实
113	that we learn to love humanity, not in general,	我们学会爱人,而不是一般的,
114	but through its particular	但通过它的特殊性
115	expressions.	表达法。
116	So	这么说
117	these are some considerations.	这些都是一些考虑。
118	They're not knockdown arguments	他们不是倒数辩论
119	but moral philosophy	但道德哲学
120	can't offer knockdown arguments but considerations	无法提供倒计时的论据但考虑
121	of the kinds that we've been	我们曾经是什么样的人
122	discussing and arguing about	讨论和争论
123	all along.	一直这样
124	Well suppose	假设
125	that's right.	没错
126	One way of assessing whether this picture of the person and of obligation is right is to see	评估个人和义务的这一状况是否正确的一个方法是:
127	what are its consequences for justice.	它对正义的后果是什么?
128	And here's where it confronts a serious problem and here we go back to our southern segregationists.	我们回到南方的隔离主义者。
129	They felt the weight of history.	他们感受到了历史的重量。
130	Do we admire their character?	我们佩服他们的性格吗?
131	These segregationists who wanted to preserve their way of life	这些隔离主义者想保持他们的生活方式
132	are we committed to saying	我们承诺要说
133	if we accept the idea of solidarity membership are we committed to saying	如果我们接受团结会会籍的想法我们承诺说
134	that justice is tied to the good in the sense that justice means	正义与正义联系在一起
135	whatever a particular community or tradition says it means	无论特定社区或传统怎么说
136	including those southern segregationists.	包括那些南方隔离主义者。
137	Here it's important to distinguish two different ways	要分辨两种不同的方式
138	in which justice can be tied to the good.	正义可以和好人联系在一起
139	One is a relativist way.	一是相对论法.
140	That's the way that says	就是这样
141	to think about rights, to think about justice,	思考权利,思考正义,
142	look to the values that happen to prevail in any given community at any given time.	关注任何特定社区在任何特定时间偶然流行的价值观。
143	Don't judge them	别评判他们
144	by some outside standard	根据某些外部标准
145	but instead conceive justice as a matter of being faithful to the shared understandings	却把正义视为忠实于共识
146	of a particular tradition.	某种传统
147	But there's a problem with this way of tying justice to the good.	但这种将正义与善联系起来的方式有问题.
148	The problem	问题
149	is that it makes justice wholly conventional.	就是它使正义完全具有常规性。
150	A product of circumstance	情况的结果
151	and this deprives justice of its	这剥夺了正义
152	critical character.	关键人物。
153	But there is a second way	但还有另一种办法
154	in which justice	司法权
155	can be tied with or bound up with the good.	可以和好人捆绑或捆绑在一起
156	On this second non-relativist way of linking justice with conceptions of the good,	在将正义与善良概念联系起来的第二种非相对主义方式上,
157	principles of justice depend for their justification	司法原则取决于其理由
158	not on the values that happen to prevail at any given moment	不是任何特定时刻出现的价值观
159	in a certain place	在某个地方
160	but instead on the moral worth or the intrinsic good of the ends	而不是道德价值或者目的的内在好处
161	rights serve.	权利服务。
162	On this non-relativist view the case for recognizing a right depends on showing	根据这种非相对主义观点,承认某项权利的理由取决于是否表明
163	that it honors or advances some important human good.	它尊重或促进一些重要的人类利益。
164	The second way	第二条路
165	of tying justice to the good is not, strictly speaking, communitarian.	严格地说,将正义与正义联系在一起并不是社区性的。
166	If by communitarian you mean	如果说是共产主义者的话
167	just giving over to a particular community	只是给一个特定的社区
168	the definition of justice.	正义的定义。
169	Now what I would like to suggest that of these two different ways of linking	现在我要建议的是这两种不同的联系方式
170	justice to the good,	正义为善,
171	the first is insufficient.	第一条是不够的。
172	Because the first leaves justice the creature of convention.	因为第一件事是正义是公约的产物
173	It doesn't give us enough	不够
174	moral resources to respond to those southern segregationists who invoke	利用道德资源来对付那些援引法律的南方隔离主义者
175	their way of life, their traditions,	他们的生活方式, 他们的传统,
176	their way of doing things.	他们做事的方式
177	But if justice is bound up with the good in a non-relativist way there's a big	但是如果正义以非相对主义的方式与善相联就会有大
178	challenge,	挑战,
179	a big question to answer.	一个大问题要回答。
180	How can we reason about the good?	我们怎么解释好?
181	What about the fact that people hold different	那么,人们持有不同的事实
182	conceptions of the good, different ideas about the purposes of key social	关于关键社会目的的美好、不同想法的概念
183	institutions,	机构,
184	different ideas	不同的想法
185	about what social goods and human goods are worthy of honor and recognition.	关于哪些社会公益物和人类公益物值得荣誉和表彰。
186	We live in a pluralist society, people disagree about the good, that's one of	我们生活在一个多元化的社会里人们对善有不同的看法
187	the incentive to try to find principles of justice	寻求公正原则的动力
188	and rights that don't depend	和不依赖的权利
189	on any particular ends or purposes or goods.	用于任何特定目的或目的或货物。
190	So is there a way to reason about the good?	那么,有办法解释好事吗?
191	Before addressing that question	在处理这个问题之前
192	I want to address a slightly easier question.	我想谈一个稍微简单的问题。
193	Is it necessary, is it unavoidable	有必要吗,是不可避免的
194	when arguing about justice	当争论正义时
195	to argue about the good?	争辩好?
196	And my answer to that question	我对这个问题的回答
197	is yes.	没错
198	It's unavoidable.	这是不可避免的。
199	It's necessary.	这是必要的。
200	So for the remainder of today I want to take up,	所以今天剩下的时间我想谈谈
201	I want to try to	我想尝试
202	advance that claim	预付款项
203	that reasoning about the good, about purposes and ends is an unavoidable	关于善、宗旨和目的的推理是不可避免的
204	feature of arguing about justice.	关于正义的争论。
205	It's necessary.	这是必要的。
206	Let me see if I can establish that.	我看看能不能证明这一点。
207	And for that I'd like	我很乐意
208	for us to begin a discussion	让我们开始讨论
209	of same-sex marriage.	在同性婚姻中,
210	Now, same-sex marriage	现在,同性婚姻
211	draws on	借鉴
212	and implicates	和所涉人员
213	deeply contested	深有争议
214	and controversial ideas	和有争议的想法
215	morally and religiously.	在道德和宗教上。
216	And so there's a powerful incentive	因此,有一个强大的激励
217	to embrace a conception of justice or of rights	接受正义或权利的概念
218	that doesn't require the society as a whole to pass judgment one way or another	不需要整个社会以这样或那样的方式做出判断
219	on	打开
220	those	这些
221	hotly contested moral and religious questions	激烈争论的道德和宗教问题
222	about the moral permissibility of homosexuality	关于同性恋的道德允许性
223	about the proper ends of marriage	关于婚姻的适当结束
224	as a social institution.	作为一个社会机构。
225	So clearly if there's an incentive to resolve this question	所以很明显,如果有激励解决这个问题
226	to define people's rights	界定人民的权利
227	in a way that doesn't require the society as a whole	以不需要整个社会的方式
228	to sort out those moral and religious disputes	解决道德和宗教纠纷
229	that would be very attractive.	这将是非常吸引人。
230	So what I would like to do now	所以我现在想做什么
231	is to see	是要看见
232	using the same-sex marriage case	使用同性婚姻案件
233	whether it's possible	可能吗?
234	to detach	切换
235	one's views about the moral permissibility of homosexuality and about	关于同性恋的道德允许性以及
236	the purpose, the end of marriage, to detach	目的,婚姻的终结, 拆散
237	those questions	这些问题
238	from the question of whether the state should recognize	从国家是否承认
239	same-sex marriage or not.	无论同性婚姻与否。
240	So, let's begin.	所以,让我们开始。
241	I would like to begin	我想开始
242	by hearing the arguments of those	听取他们的论点
243	who believe that there should be no same-sex marriage	他们认为不应该有同性婚姻
244	but that the state should only recognize marriage between a man and a woman.	但国家只应承认男女之间的婚姻。
245	Do I have volunteers?	我有志愿者吗?
246	I had two.	我有两个
247	There were	曾经
248	two people I asked	我问了两个人
249	people who had voiced their views already on the Justice blog.	在司法博客上表达自己观点的人,
250	Mark Lough	马克·劳
251	and Ryan McCaffrey.	还有瑞安・麦卡弗里
252	Where are you?	你们在哪?
253	Okay.	摆
254	Mark?	马克?
255	And where's Ryan?	莱恩呢?
256	Let's go first to Mark.	让我们先去马克。
257	I have sort of a teleological understanding	我有点心智上的理解
258	of	页:1
259	the purpose of sex and the purpose of marriage.	性的目的和婚姻的目的。
260	And I think that for people like myself	我想对于像我这样的人来说
261	who are a Christian and also a Catholic	他们是基督徒,也是天主教徒
262	the purpose of sex	性别目的
263	is, one, for its procreative	其一,因为它的生殖性
264	uses and, two, for	用途和二,用于
265	a unifying purpose between	统一目标
266	a man and a woman within the	一男一女身处
267	within the institution of marriage.	婚姻制度。
268	You have a certain conception	你有某种概念
269	of the purpose or the telos	目的或主题
270	of human sexuality	人类性行为
271	which is bound up with procreation	与生育相连
272	as well as union.	还有工会
273	And the essence of marriage, the purpose	婚姻的本质,目的
274	of marriage as a social institution	婚姻作为社会制度
275	is to give expression	表达式
276	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}去那片地盘
277	and to honor that purpose, namely the procreative purpose	并尊重这一目的,即生殖目的;
278	of marriage.	结婚
279	Is that a fair summary of your view?	你的观点是这样总结的吗?
280	Where's Ryan?	赖安呢?
281	Go ahead.	来吧。
282	Do you agree more or less with Mark's	你或多或少同意马克的
283	reasons?	原因吗?
284	Yes, I agree.	是的,我同意这一点。
285	I think that	我觉得
286	the ideal of marriage involves procreation.	婚姻的理想涉及生育。
287	And it's fine that, you know, homosexuals would go off	和它的罚款,你知道,同性恋会去
288	and	和
289	cohabitate with each other, but the government doesn't have a responsibility to	同居,但政府没有责任
290	encourage that.	鼓励这样做。
291	Alright, so the government should not encourage	好吧,所以政府不应该鼓励
292	homosexual behavior by conferring the	通过赋予同性恋行为
293	recognition of marriage.	承认婚姻。
294	Yeah, it would be wrong to outlaw it,	是啊,这是错的违法,
295	but encouraging it is not necessary.	但鼓励是没有必要的。
296	Who has a reply?	谁有答复?
297	Hannah?	汉娜?
298	I'd just like to ask a question to Mark.	我只想问马克一个问题。
299	Let's say you got married to a woman,	假设你嫁给了一个女人
300	you did not have sex with her before marriage, and then when you became married	你婚前没有和她发生性关系,然后你结婚了
301	it became evident that you were an infertile couple.	很明显你们是一对不育的夫妇
302	Do you think that it	你觉得
303	should be illegal for you to engage in sex if children will not	如果孩子不做爱,你应该违法
304	result from that act?	行为的结果?
305	Yeah, I think that it is moral, and that's why I gave the	是的,我认为这是道德的, 这就是为什么我给了
306	two-fold purpose.	两重目的。
307	So, like, a woman, say,	所以,像,一个女人,说,
308	I think older couples can get married, someone, a woman who's beyond,	我觉得老夫妇可以结婚, 某人,一个女人谁的超出,
309	um, who's already had menopause,	嗯,谁已经有更年期,
310	and who can't have a child, because I think that	和谁不能有一个孩子, 因为我认为
311	sex has these,	性有这些,
312	it has purposes beyond procreation.	它的目的不仅仅是生育
313	I hate to be uncouth, but have you ever engaged	我讨厌不严谨但你有没有订婚过
314	in masturbation?	手淫吗?
315	Oh, alright.	哦,对了。
316	You don't have to answer that.	你不必回答这个问题。
317	You can...	你可以...
318	Just a minute.	请等一下
319	Make your...	让你的...
320	No, I'd like to respond to that.	不,我想回答这个问题。
321	We've done pretty well	我们做得很好
322	over a whole semester, and we're doing pretty well now,	整个学期我们表现得很好
323	dealing with questions that most people think can't even be discussed in a	处理大多数人认为无法在
324	university setting.	大学环境。
325	And,	还有,
326	Hannah, you've got, you have a powerful point.	汉娜,你有, 你有强大的观点。
327	Make that point as a general	做一个将军
328	argument, rather than...	争论,而不是...
329	rather than as an interrogative.	而不是作为审讯。
330	But make the point.	但说正法.
331	What's the principle that you're appealing?	你上诉的原则是什么?
332	What's the argument you have in mind?	你想说什么?
333	Alright.	还好
334	Well, biblically...	嗯,圣经上...
335	Put it in the third person, rather than...	放在第三个人,而不是...
336	rather than in the second person.	而不是在第二个人。
337	Make the argument.	作是辩才.
338	Go ahead.	来吧。
339	Okay.	摆
340	Biblically, masturbation or onanism	圣经,自慰或自恋
341	is not permissible because it's, you know, spilling your seed on the earth when	因为它会把种子洒在地上
342	it's not going to result in the birth of a child.	它不会导致孩子的诞生。
343	But what I'm saying is, you know, you're saying that sex...	但是我的意思是,你知道, 你说的是性...
344	you know, there's something wrong with sex if it doesn't produce children	要知道,如果性爱不生孩子,就有些不对劲
345	or reinforce the marriage bond.	或加强婚姻关系。
346	But then how can you say that	但你怎么能这么说
347	there's something wrong... that, you know, masturbation is permissible if	有点不对劲... 你知道,如果...
348	masturbation obviously is not going to, you know, create a child?	手淫显然不会,你知道, 创造一个孩子?
349	Yeah, I think	是啊,我觉得
350	marriage	结婚
351	is society's way to create this separate institution where they say,	社会是建立这个独立机构的方法,他们说,
352	this is what we hold as a virtue.	这是我们所持有的美德。
353	Yes, every day we fall short.	是的,我们每天都缺钱。
354	And people fall short in so many different other ways.	人们在很多不同的方面都不足。
355	But I think that	但我认为
356	if you personally	如果你个人
357	fall short in some moral sphere, as we all do, that doesn't	在某些道德领域,我们都是如此,但这并不
358	take the right of	向右移动
359	you to argue.	你来争辩吧
360	Alright.	还好
361	I want you to stay there.	我要你留在这
362	I want to bring in	我想带进来
363	some other voices and we'll continue.	其他的声音,我们会继续。
364	Stay there if you would.	如果你愿意的话,留在那。
365	Go ahead.	来吧。
366	I think that the response to the masturbation... My name's Steve.	我想对自慰的反应... 我叫史提夫,你好吗?
367	The response to the masturbation issue is, it's not something that's permissible.	对自慰问题的反应是,这不是允许的东西.
368	I don't	我没有
369	think anyone will argue that homosexual sex is impermissible.	认为任何人都会认为同性恋是不允许的
370	It's just that society has no place in letting you marry yourself if	只是社会没有地方让你自己结婚
371	masturbation is something that you do.	手淫是你们做的事
372	Alright, Hannah.	好吧,汉娜。
373	Alright, Steve has drawn...	好吧,史蒂夫已经画...
374	Alright, that's a good argument.	好吧,这是一个很好的争论。
375	Steve has drawn our attention to the fact that there are two issues here.	史蒂夫提请我们注意,这里有两个问题。
376	One of them is the moral permissibility of various practices.	其中之一是各种做法的道德允许性。
377	The other is the fit between certain practices,	另一种是某些做法之间的吻合,
378	whatever their moral permissibility,	无论道德上允许什么
379	with the honor or recognition	荣誉或承认
380	that the state should accord	国家应同意
381	in allowing marriage.	允许结婚。
382	So Steve has a pretty good	所以,史蒂夫有一个相当好
383	counter-argument.	反辩.
384	What do you say to Steve?	你对史蒂夫怎么说?
385	Well, I think that it's clear that human sexuality is something that is	我认为人类的性爱是
386	inherent in, I believe, most people.	我相信,大部分人都是内在的
387	And it's not something you can avoid.	而且这不是你能避免的
388	And masturbation, I mean,	还有自慰,我的意思是,
389	yeah, you can't marry yourself, but I don't think that	是啊,你不能嫁给自己, 但我不认为
390	takes away from the fact that homosexuals are people too.	远离同性恋也是人的事实。
391	And I can't understand why	我不懂为什么
392	they wouldn't be able to marry each other.	他们不可能结婚
393	If you want to marry yourself,	如果你想嫁给自己
394	I mean, I don't know if you can legally do that.	我的意思是,我不知道你是否能合法这样做。
395	That's fine, but I don't think...	没关系但我不觉得...
396	Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.	慢着,慢着
397	Now here we're deciding, here we're deliberating as if legislators, what the	现在我们决定,在这里,我们正在考虑仿佛立法者,什么是
398	law should be.	法律应该是。
399	So you said, Steve, that's fine.	你说,史蒂夫,没关系。
400	Does that mean as a legislator you would vote	这是否意味着作为一个立法者你会投票
401	for a law of marriage that would be so broad	婚姻法如此宽泛
402	that it would let	它会让
403	people marry themselves?	人们结婚吗?
404	Well, I mean,	我是说...
405	that's really beyond the pale of, like, anything that would really happen, but	这真的超越了苍白的,喜欢, 任何事情会真正发生,但
406	I don't think that...	我不认为...
407	But in principle.	但原则上
408	Yeah, in principle.	是啊,原则上。
409	Yes.	对
410	Yeah, sure.	当然
411	I mean, if Steve wants to marry	我的意思是,如果史蒂夫想结婚
412	himself, I'm not going to stop him.	我不会阻止他
413	And you would confer state recognition on that	你会得到国家承认
414	solo marriage.	单独结婚
415	And while we're at it, what about consensual polygamous marriages?	而当我们到了它, 那自愿的多配偶婚姻呢?
416	I actually think that if the male and the female, or if the wives	我其实认为,如果男女,或者妻子
417	and the man and the husband, or the husbands and the wife are consenting, it	男人和丈夫, 或丈夫和妻子是同意的,
418	should be permissible.	应允许。
419	Who else?	还有谁?
420	I know there are a lot of people who...	我知道有许多人...
421	Yes, okay, down here.	是的,好吧,在这里。
422	Stand up and tell us your name.	站起来告诉我们你的名字。
423	Victoria.	维多利亚
424	So we're talking about the theological reasoning here for marriage, but I think	我们谈的是婚姻的神学推理但我认为
425	the problem is that we're talking about it within	问题是我们是在谈论它
426	the Catholic viewpoint,	天主教的观点,
427	whereas the theological	而神学
428	and the point to marriage for another religion or someone who's an atheist	和婚姻的意义对于另一个宗教或者一个无神论者
429	could be completely different.	可能会完全不同
430	And the government doesn't have a right to impose the theological reasoning for	政府没有权利强制推行神学推理
431	Catholicism on	天主教会
432	everyone in the state,	州内所有人
433	which is what my problem is with not allowing same-sex marriage, because	这就是我的问题不允许同性婚姻,因为
434	I mean, your beliefs are your beliefs, and that's fine,	我的意思是,你的信仰是你的信仰, 这很好,
435	but civil union is not marriage within the Catholic Church.	但民事结合不是天主教会内部的婚姻。
436	And the state has a right to recognize a civil union between	国家有权承认
437	whoever it wants,	无论它想要谁
438	but does not have a right to impose the beliefs of a certain minority or majority	但无权将某一少数群体或多数人的信仰强加于人
439	or whoever it is	不管是谁
440	based on a religion	基于宗教
441	within	在内部
442	our state.	我们的国家。
443	Alright, Victoria,	好吧,维多利亚,
444	good, a question.	好,一个问题。
445	Do you think the state should recognize same-sex marriage or just	你觉得国家应该承认同性婚姻还是
446	same-sex civil unions as something	同性公民联姻
447	short of marriage?	结婚?
448	Well,	那个
449	I think that the state doesn't have a right to recognize	我认为国家没有权利承认
450	it as marriage within	作为婚姻内部
451	a church, because that is not their place,	一个教堂,因为那里不是他们的地方,
452	but whereas civil union, I see civil union as essentially the same thing,	但尽管民事结合, 我认为民事结合基本上是一样的,
453	except not under a religion, and the state has a right to recognize	国家有权承认
454	a civil union.	民事结合。
455	Alright, so Victoria's argument is that the state should not try to	好吧,所以维多利亚的论点是州不应该试图
456	decide the question of what the telos of marriage is, that's only something that	决定婚姻的特质是什么问题, 那只是一些东西
457	religious communities	宗教社团
458	can decide.	可以决定。
459	Who else?	还有谁?
460	My point is, I don't see why	我想说的是,我不明白为什么
461	we feel like	我们觉得
462	the state should recognize marriages	国家应承认婚姻
463	at all.	一点也不
464	So I'm like one of these seven people who voted that the state should not recognize	所以我就像这七个人之一谁投票国家不应该承认
465	any marriages, because	任何婚姻,因为
466	I believe it is a union between	我相信这是一个结合
467	a male and a female,	男的和女的,
468	or two males or two females,	或两雄或两雌;
469	but there is no reason to ask the state to give permission to me to	但没有理由要求国家允许我
470	unite myself, and some might say that	团结我,有些人可能会说
471	if the state recognizes these marriages,	如果国家承认这些婚姻,
472	it will help children, it will	它会帮助儿童,它会
473	have a binding effect, but in reality I don't think it	但实际上我不觉得
474	actually has a binding effect.	实际具有约束作用。
475	Alright, tell us your name.	好吧,告诉我们你的名字。
476	So, Victoria and Cezanne's comments	因此,维多利亚和塞桑的评论
477	differ from earlier parts of the conversation.	与对话的早期部分不同。
478	They say	他们说
479	the state shouldn't be in the business	国家不该插手
480	of honoring or recognizing or affirming	承认或确认
481	any particular telos or purpose of marriage, or of human sexuality,	* 任何特定婚约或婚姻目的,或人类性行为,
482	and Cezanne is among those who says therefore maybe the state should get out of the business	Cezanne是其中之一说,也许国家应该退出生意
483	of recognizing marriage at all.	完全承认婚姻。
484	Here's the question.	问曰.
485	Unless you adopt Cezanne's position, no state recognition of any kind of marriage,	除非你采取Cezanne的立场, 没有州承认任何类型的婚姻,
486	is it possible to choose between,	有没有可能选择,
487	to decide the question of same-sex marriage	决定同性婚姻的问题
488	without taking a stand on the moral and religious controversy	而不对道德和宗教争议采取立场
489	over the property los of marriage.	在婚姻的财产。
490	Thank you very much to all of you who have participated.	非常感谢所有与会人员。
491	We'll pick this up next time.	我们下次再拿
492	You did a great job.	你表现得很好
493	When we first came together some 13	我们第一次见面的时候大约13个
494	weeks ago, I tried to warn you that once the familiar turns	几周前,我试图警告你一旦熟悉的转变
495	strange, once we begin to reflect on our circumstance,	奇怪,一旦我们开始思考我们的情况
496	it's never quite the same again.	再也不会变了
497	I hope you have by now experienced at least a	我希望你已经体验了至少
498	little of this unease,	一点点的不安,
499	because this is the tension that animates critical reflection	因为这是引发关键反射的紧张状态
500	and political improvement, and maybe even	政治进步,甚至可能
501	the moral life as well.	还有道德生活
502	We have two remaining questions to answer.	我们还有两个问题要回答。
503	First, is it necessary,	首先,是否有必要
504	is it unavoidable, to take up questions of the good life and thinking about	面对美好生活的问题和思考
505	justice?	正义?
506	Yes.	对
507	And is it possible	有可能吗?
508	to reason about justice?	解释正义?
509	Yes, I think so.	是的,我想是这样。
510	Let me try to develop	让我试着发展
511	those answers to those two questions.	回答这两个问题
512	Now,	现在,
513	as a way of addressing those questions, we began last time	作为解决这些问题的方法,我们上次开始
514	to discuss the question of same-sex marriage.	讨论同性婚姻的问题。
515	And we heard from those	我们听到那些
516	who argued against same-sex marriage on the grounds that the purpose or telos	以同性婚姻的目的或目的为理由进行辩护
517	of marriage is	结婚
518	at least in part procreation,	至少部分生育,
519	the bearing and raising of children.	生育和抚养子女。
520	And then there were those	还有那些
521	who defended same-sex marriage,	他们捍卫同性婚姻,
522	and they contested that account of the	他们否认
523	purpose or telos of marriage, arguing	婚姻的目的或动机,
524	we don't require as a condition of heterosexual marriage	我们不需要作为异性婚姻的条件
525	that couples be able	夫妇能够
526	or willing to procreate.	或愿意生育。
527	We allow infertile couples	我们允许不孕的夫妇
528	to marry.	结婚。
529	This is Hannah's point in the exchange with Mark.	这是汉娜在与马克的交流中的点.
530	Then there was another position, expressed at the end of our discussion by	我们讨论结束时表达的另一种立场是:
531	Victoria,	维多利亚
532	who argued we shouldn't try to decide this question.	谁说我们不该决定这个问题
533	We shouldn't, at least at the level of the state,	我们不应该,至少在州一级,
534	at the level of law, try to come to	在法律层面,尝试来
535	any agreement on those questions about the good	任何关于这些问题的协议
536	because we live in a pluralist society	因为我们生活在多元社会
537	where people have different moral and religious convictions.	人们有不同的道德和宗教信仰。
538	And so we should try to make	所以我们应该试着做
539	law and the framework of rights neutral	法律与权利中立框架
540	with respect to these competing moral and religious	关于这些相互竞争的道德和宗教问题
541	views.	视图。
542	Now it's interesting that others,	现在有趣的是其他人,
543	some others, who favor the idea of neutrality	另一些人则主张中立
544	argued not in favor of restricting marriage	不赞成限制婚姻
545	to a man and a woman, nor in favor of permitting same-sex marriage.	也不赞成允许同性婚姻
546	They argued, in the name of neutrality,	他们以中立的名义
547	for a third possibility, which is that government	第三种可能性,即政府
548	get out of the business of recognizing any kind of marriage.	别管什么婚姻
549	That was the third possibility.	这是第三种可能性。
550	Now	现在
551	Andrea Mayrose had an interesting contribution to this debate.	安德里亚·梅罗斯对这场辩论做出了有趣的贡献.
552	She had a	她有一个
553	rejoinder	复辩
554	to people who argue for neutrality.	敬那些主张中立的人。
555	Where is Andrea?	安德里亚在哪?
556	Alright.	还好
557	Andrea, would you be willing	安德里亚,你愿意吗?
558	share with us the view, if we can get you a microphone,	和我们分享风景, 如果我们能给你一个麦克风,
559	share with us your view.	与我们分享你的观点。
560	Why do you think	你为什么认为
561	that it's a mistake	那是个错误
562	for the state to try to be neutral	国家试图保持中立
563	on moral and even religious questions like same-sex marriage?	关于道德甚至宗教问题比如同性婚姻?
564	I don't know that it is possible because people's lives	我不知道这是可能的因为人们的生活
565	are completely embedded in how they	完全嵌入他们是如何
566	view the world and maybe I just agree with Aristotle that	看着世界也许我同意亚里士多德的观点
567	the role of the government is helping people live in a sort of,	政府的作用是帮助人们在某种程度上,
568	like having a collective understanding of what	就像对什么有集体的理解
569	is wrong and what is right.	错和错
570	Is it possible, and one could ask the same	有可能吗? 人们也可以问同样的问题
571	question of abortion	堕胎问题
572	that we've been asking of same-sex marriage,	我们一直要求同性婚姻,
573	do you think it's possible to decide	你觉得可以决定吗?
574	whether abortion should be permitted	是否应当允许堕胎
575	or prohibited without taking a stand or making a judgment	禁止不发表意见或作出判决
576	about the moral permissibility of abortion?	关于堕胎的道德允许性?
577	No, I don't think it is and I think that's why it's such a controversy because	不,我不这么认为我认为这就是为什么它是一个争议因为
578	people are so	人们是如此
579	deeply committed to their fundamental beliefs about	坚定致力于他们关于
580	whether a fetus is a life or if it isn't.	胎儿是生命还是不是生命
581	So,	这么说
582	if I believe that a fetus is a living being	如果我相信一个胎儿是生命
583	and has rights and has fundamentally the right to live,	并拥有权利,并从根本上享有生存权,
584	then it's very hard for me to say, but I can put that aside and let you do what	我很难说但我可以把那个放在一边让你做什么
585	you want because	你想要是因为
586	that's like me saying, well despite my beliefs I'm going to let you commit what	这就像我说, 好吧,尽管我的信仰我会让你做出什么
587	to me is murder.	对我来说是谋杀
588	So, and I mean that's just...	所以,我的意思是,这只是...
589	The analogy in the same-sex marriage case is you said	同性婚姻案中的类比就是你说的
590	you're a defender of same-sex marriage, but you only came to that view	你是同性婚姻的捍卫者, 但你只是来到这种观点
591	once you were persuaded on the underlying moral question.	曾经你被说服关于基本的道德问题。
592	Right, well I think particularly in the US so many people's	对,我想在美国特别多
593	beliefs are driven by their religious beliefs and	信仰受到宗教信仰的驱使
594	like Mark the other day, I'm Christian, I'm Catholic, and I had to decide	像马克那天一样我是基督徒我是天主教徒我必须决定
595	for myself like on a lot of thought, a lot of prayer, a lot of conversations with other	自我喜欢很多的想法, 很多祷告, 和很多对话
596	people	人员
597	that I disagreed with the Catholic standpoint that homosexuality itself is	我不同意天主教的观点,即同性恋本身就是
598	in a sin.	在罪恶中。
599	And once I came to that sort of conclusion in my personal relationship	当我在私人关系中得出这种结论
600	with God,	与上帝,
601	like I mean that sounds hokey right?	就像我意思,这听起来胡说八道对不对?
602	That's like, oh religious, but a lot of	这就像,哦宗教,但很多
603	people are religious and that's where they draw their beliefs and their	人们是宗教的, 在那里他们画他们的信仰和他们的
604	views from.	从视图。
605	That's when I could say, yeah I'm down with the state saying	那时我可以说,是的,我下州说
606	go same-sex marriage because I'm okay with that and I	去同性婚姻,因为我同意这个,我
607	I think that's morally okay.	我觉得这在道德上是好的
608	Good, thank you.	很好谢谢
609	Now	现在
610	who would like to reply, if you can	如果你可以的话,谁愿意回答?
611	perhaps hang on there for a moment, who would like to reply	等一会,谁想回答?
612	to Andrea's idea that in order to decide the question of same-sex marriage	为了决定同性婚姻的问题
613	it's necessary to sort out the question about the	有必要解决关于
614	moral status of homosexuality and	同性恋的道德地位
615	figuring out the purpose, the telos,	确定目的, 泰罗斯,
616	the proper end of marriage.	婚姻的适当结束。
617	Who disagrees	谁不同意
618	with Andrea on that point?	和安德里亚在一起吗?
619	Yes?	是吗?
620	Well I think you absolutely can separate your moral opinion	我觉得你绝对可以把道德观点分开
621	and what you think the law should be.	以及你认为法律应该是什么
622	For example,	举例来说,
623	I think abortion is unequivocally,	我认为堕胎是明确的,
624	morally wrong, but I do not believe that illegalizing abortion makes it go away.	道德上是错误的,但我认为,非法堕胎不会使其消失。
625	I don't believe illegalizing abortion stops it and therefore I am pro-choice	我不相信非法堕胎能阻止它所以我赞成选择
626	and I do believe the woman should have the choice as it gives them more safety	我相信这女人应该有选择权因为这会让他们更加安全
627	just as	碞钩
628	maybe morally I don't want to get married to a man	也许道德上我不想嫁给男人
629	but I'm not going to try to, you know,	但我不会试图,你知道,
630	impede someone else's freedom to do what they wish to do	阻碍他人自由做他们想做的事
631	in terms of the law.	以诸法界.
632	Andrea?	安德里亚?
633	Whether the law makes something legal or illegal is	法律是合法还是非法
634	it's implicitly approving or disapproving something.	它含蓄地认可或不认可某件事。
635	So if you say	所以,如果你说
636	like by making abortion legal we're saying	就像让堕胎合法一样
637	it's okay.	没关系。
638	As a society collectively we're saying	作为一个社会我们集体说
639	it's okay with us in our society to abort	我们社会上可以堕胎
640	a fetus.	a 胎儿。
641	If we make it legal, if we make it illegal then we're saying	如果我们把它合法化,如果我们把它非法, 那么我们说
642	collectively as a society	集体作为一个社会
643	it's not okay and that's why society says it's not legal.	这是不好的, 这就是为什么社会说这是不合法的。
644	Tell us your name.	告诉我们你的名字。
645	My name is Daniel.	我叫丹尼尔
646	Daniel, what do you say?	丹尼尔,你觉得怎么样?
647	Are we saying collectively that it's okay?	我们一起说没关系吗?
648	и琌弧 и癬ぃ辨 穦砆 abortion
649	anyway to go to clinics in the side alleys and have	不管怎么样,去诊所在边巷和有
650	unsafe conditions.	不安全的条件。
651	Alright, bring it to the same-sex marriage case.	好吧,把它带到同性婚姻案件。
652	Why don't you have to decide that which position you're in favor of	你为何不决定你赞成什么立场
653	same-sex marriage, Daniel, being legally permitted?	丹尼尔,是法律允许的同性婚姻?
654	I think it absolutely	我觉得绝对
655	should be legally permitted	应依法允许
656	because it's not something telling me that I need to marry a man.	因为它没有告诉我我需要嫁给一个男人。
657	I don't see if two men are consenting adults and want to get married	我看不出两个男人是否同意成人想结婚
658	I don't see how I could even object to that.	我看不出我怎么会反对
659	Alright, there's no harm.	好吧,没有伤害。
660	There's no harm.	无碍无碍.
661	Either way, even if it is morally wrong according to me.	无论哪种方式,即使我认为这在道德上是错误的。
662	Alright, let me turn to the way	好,让我转过身去
663	the Massachusetts court who made this landmark ruling in the same-sex	马萨诸塞州法院在同性之间做出这一具有里程碑意义的裁决
664	marriage case	结婚案件
665	grappled with the very issue that Andrea and	解决了安德里亚和
666	Dan have been discussing here.	丹一直在讨论这个问题
667	Thanks to both of you very much.	非常感谢你们俩
668	What did the court say?	法庭怎么说?
669	This was in the Goodridge case	这是古德里奇的案子
670	which required the state of Massachusetts	这需要马萨诸塞州
671	to extend marriage to	将婚姻延伸至
672	same-sex couples.	同性伴侣。
673	The court	法院
674	started out, well, the court was conflicted	一开始,法院就发生了冲突
675	if you read that opinion carefully, the court was conflicted	如果你仔细读了这个意见,法庭就发生了冲突
676	as between the two positions we've just been	我们刚刚的两个位置之间
677	hearing, defended by Andrea and by Dan.	由安德里亚和丹辩护
678	The court begins, and this is Chief Justice Margaret Marshall's	法庭开始,这是首席大法官玛格丽特·马歇尔
679	opinion, it begins with an attempt	观点,从尝试开始
680	at liberal neutrality.	在自由中立。
681	Many people hold deep-seated religious, moral, and ethical	许多人持有根深蒂固的宗教、道德和伦理
682	convictions	定罪
683	that marriage should be limited to the union of one man and one woman	婚姻应限于一男一女的结合;
684	and that homosexual conduct is immoral.	同性恋的行为是不道德的
685	Many hold equally strong religious,	许多人信奉同样强大的宗教,
686	moral, and ethical convictions	道德和伦理信念
687	that same-sex couples are entitled to be married, that homosexual person should be	- 同性伴侣有权结婚;
688	treated no differently	没有区别
689	than their heterosexual neighbors.	比他们的异性恋邻居。
690	This is the court.	此是宫廷.
691	Neither view answers the question before us.	两种观点都无法回答我们面前的问题。
692	What is at stake is, quote, respect for individual	关键在于尊重个人
693	autonomy and equality under law.	法律上的自治和平等。
694	At stake is an individual freely choosing the person	事关个人自由选择个人
695	with whom to share an exclusive commitment.	与谁分享独家承诺。
696	In other words, an issue	换句话说一个问题
697	is not the moral worth of the choice	不是道德价值的选择
698	but the right of the individual to make it.	但个人有权做它。
699	So	这么说
700	this is the liberal neutral strand in the court opinion,	这是法院意见中自由中立的部分,
701	Bollentra线,一个强调自主,
702	choice, consent.	选择,同意。
703	But the court seemed to realize	但法庭似乎意识到
704	that the liberal case, the neutral case, for recognizing same-sex marriage	自由主义中立主义承认同性婚姻
705	doesn't succeed, doesn't get you all the way to that position because	没有成功,没有让你一路到那个职位,因为
706	if it were only a matter of respect for individual autonomy,	如果这只是一个尊重个人自主的问题,
707	if government were truly neutral	如果政府真正中立
708	on the moral worth of voluntary intimate	自愿亲密关系的道德价值
709	relationships, then it should adopt	关系,然后应该通过
710	a different policy which is	另一种政策是:
711	to remove government and the state	取消政府和州政府
712	altogether from according	完全从说
713	recognition to certain associations, certain kinds of unions	承认某些协会、某些类型的工会;
714	rather than others.	而不是别人。
715	If government really must be neutral,	如果政府真的要中立的话
716	then the consistent position	然后是一成不变的
717	is what we here have been describing as the third position,	这就是我们在这里描述的第三个位置,
718	the one defended in the article by Michael Kinsley who argues	迈克尔·金斯利在文章中辩护的人
719	for the abolition of marriage at least	至少废除婚姻
720	as a state function.	作为国家职能。
721	Perhaps a better term for this is the disestablishment	或许一个更好的术语是断绝
722	of religion.	宗教问题。
723	This is Kinsley's proposal.	这是金斯利的提议。
724	He points out that the reason for the opposition	他指出,反对派的理由
725	to same-sex marriage is that it would go beyond	与同性婚姻是超越
726	neutral toleration and give same-sex marriage a government stamp of approval.	中立的容忍,并给予同性婚姻政府批准印章.
727	That's at the heart of the dispute.	这是争议的核心。
728	In Aristotle's terms,	按亚里士多德的说法
729	an issue here is the proper distribution of	这里的一个问题是如何正确分配
730	offices and honors, a matter of social recognition.	办公室和荣誉,一个社会承认的问题。
731	Same-sex marriage can't be justified	同性婚姻是没有道理的
732	on the basis of liberal neutrality or non-discrimination or autonomy rights	自由中立或不歧视或自治权利
733	alone	一个人
734	because the question at stake in the public debate	因为这个问题在公开辩论中至关重要
735	is whether same-sex unions have moral worth, whether they're worthy of	是同性结合是否具有道德价值,是否值得
736	honor and recognition, and whether they fit the purpose of the social institution	荣誉和承认,以及它们是否符合社会制度的宗旨
737	of marriage.	结婚
738	So, Kinsley says	金斯利说
739	You want to be neutral?	你想保持中立吗?
740	Then let churches and other religious institutions offer	然后让教会和其他宗教机构提供
741	marriage ceremonies.	结婚仪式。
742	Let department stores and casinos get into the act if they want to.	百货公司和赌场如果愿意,就让它们参与行动。
743	This is Kinsley.	这是金斯利。
744	Let couples celebrate their union in	让夫妇庆祝他们的结合
745	any way they choose and consider themselves married	任何选择和认为自己结婚了的方式
746	whenever they want.	随时随地
747	And if three people want to get married	如果有三个人想结婚
748	or if one person wants to marry himself or herself	如果一个人想结婚
749	and someone else wants to conduct a ceremony for them and declare them married,	还有别人想为他们举行仪式宣布他们结婚了
750	let them.	让他们。
751	If you and your government are implicated,	如果你和你的政府被牵连
752	what do you care?	你关心什么?
753	This is Kinsley.	这是金斯利。
754	But	不过
755	this is not the position that the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts	这不是马萨诸塞州最高法院的立场
756	wanted.	被通缉了
757	They didn't call for the abolition	他们没有要求废除
758	or for the disestablishment of marriage.	或者因为婚姻破裂
759	The court did not question	法院没有质疑
760	government's role in conferring social recognition on some intimate	政府在给予一些亲密关系以社会承认方面的作用
761	associations rather than others.	协会而不是其他人。
762	To the contrary, the court waxes eloquent	恰恰相反, 宫廷是雄辩的
763	about marriage as quote, one of our community's most rewarding and cherished	关于婚姻作为引言, 我们社会最有价值和珍惜的之一
764	institutions.	机构。
765	And then it goes on to expand the definition of marriage to	然后它继续扩大婚姻的定义
766	include partners	包括合作伙伴
767	of the same sex.	同一性别。
768	And in doing so,	这样一来,
769	it acknowledges that marriage	它承认婚姻
770	is more than a matter of tolerating choices that individuals	不仅仅是容忍个人的选择
771	make.	做起来。
772	It's also a matter of social	也是社会问题
773	recognition and honor.	承认和荣誉。
774	As Justice Marshall wrote, in a real sense there are	正如马歇尔法官所写, 真正意义上,有
775	three partners to every civil marriage,	每个公证婚姻的3个伴侣,
776	two willing spouses and an approving state.	两个愿意的配偶和一个批准国
777	Marriage is at once a deeply personal commitment but also a highly	婚姻既是一种个人的深厚承诺,也是一种高度的
778	public celebration of the ideals of mutuality, companionship,	公开庆祝相互、陪伴、
779	intimacy, fidelity and family.	亲密,忠诚和家庭。
780	This is the court.	此是宫廷.
781	Now this is reaching well beyond liberal neutrality.	现在,这远远超出了自由中立。
782	This is celebrating and affirming marriage	这是庆祝和确认婚姻
783	as an honorific, as a form of public recognition.	作为荣誉,作为一种公开承认的形式.
784	And therefore the court found that it couldn't avoid the debate	因此法庭认为无法避免辩论
785	about the key loss of marriage.	关于婚姻的关键损失。
786	Justice Marshall's opinion considers and rejects the notion	马歇尔法官的意见考虑和拒绝这个概念
787	that the primary purpose of marriage is procreation.	结婚的主要目的是生育。
788	She points out that there's no requirement that applicants	她指出,没有要求申请人
789	for a marriage license who are heterosexuals attest to their ability or	异性恋者结婚证证明他们的能力或
790	their intention to conceive children.	他们想生孩子
791	Fertility is not a condition of marriage.	生育不是婚姻的条件。
792	People who cannot stir from their	不能从他们身上搅动的人
793	deathbed	临终
794	may marry.	可以结婚。
795	So she advances all kinds of arguments	所以她提出各种论点
796	along the lines that we began last time about what the proper and	根据我们上次开始的路线关于什么是适当的和
797	the essential nature of the key loss of marriage is.	婚姻丧失的关键本质是。
798	And she concludes	她总结了
799	not procreation but the exclusive and permanent commitment of the partners to	并非生育,而是合作伙伴对
800	one another	彼此之间
801	is the essential point	关键点
802	and purpose	目标
803	of marriage.	结婚
804	Now nothing I've said	我什么都没说
805	about	关于
806	this	这个
807	court opinion	法院意见
808	is an argument for or against same-sex marriage, but it is an argument against	支持或反对同性婚姻,但反对
809	the claim	索赔
810	that you can favor or oppose same-sex marriage	你可以支持或反对同性婚姻
811	while remaining neutral	保持中立时
812	on the underlying	说明
813	moral and religious questions.	道德和宗教问题。
814	So all of this is to suggest	所以所有这一切都是暗示
815	that	那个
816	at least in some	至少在某些
817	of the hotly contested	热竞者
818	debates about justice and rights that we have in our society,	关于我们社会中的正义和权利的辩论,
819	the attempt to be neutral,	企图中立,
820	the attempt to say	试图说
821	it's just a matter	只是个问题
822	of consent and choice and autonomy,	同意、选择和自主,
823	we take no stand, that doesn't succeed.	我们不采取立场,那不会成功。
824	Even the court	连法庭也一样
825	which wants to be neutral	想要保持中立
826	on these moral and religious disputes	道德和宗教争端
827	finds that it can't.	发现它不能。
828	What then about our second question?	那第二个问题呢?
829	If reasoning about the good	如果关于好的推理
830	is unavoidable	这是不可避免的
831	in debates about justice and rights,	在关于司法和权利的辩论中,
832	is it possible?	有可能吗?
833	If reasoning about the good	如果关于好的推理
834	means	表示
835	that you must have a single principle or rule or maxim	您必须有一个单一的原则或规则或准则
836	or criterion	或标准
837	for the good life	为了美好生活
838	that you simply plug in every time you have a disagreement	你只要每次有分歧
839	about morality, then the answer is no.	关于道德,那么答案是否定的。
840	But having a single	但有一个单身
841	principle or rule	原则或规则
842	is not the only way,	不是唯一的办法,
843	not the best way,	不是最好的办法,
844	of reasoning	推理
845	either about the good life	或关于美好生活
846	or about justice.	或关于正义。
847	Think back,	回想起来
848	think back	回想起来
849	to the arguments that we've been having here	我们一直在这里争论
850	about justice	关于司法
851	and about rights	权利
852	and sometimes about the good life.	有时候,关于美好生活。
853	How have those arguments proceeded?	这些论点如何进行?
854	They've proceeded	他们开始了
855	very much in the way	非常麻烦
856	that Aristotle suggests	亚里士多德建议
857	moving back and forth	前后移动
858	between our judgments about particulars, particular cases, events,	我们对于具体案件事件
859	stories, questions,	故事,问题,
860	back and forth between our judgments about particular cases	在我们对特定案件的判决之间
861	and more general principles that make sense of our reasons for the positions we take	更一般性的原则说明我们的立场的理由
862	on the particular cases.	关于特定案件。
863	This	这个
864	dialectical way	辩证方法
865	of doing moral reasoning	进行道德推理
866	goes back to the ancients, to Plato and Aristotle,	回到古代柏拉图和亚里士多德
867	but it doesn't stop with them	但它不停止与他们
868	because there is a version of Socratic or dialectical	因为有Socratic或辩证法的版本
869	moral reasoning	道德推理
870	that is	这是
871	defended with great clarity and force	以极大的清晰和武力防御
872	约翰·罗尔斯(John Rawls)
873	in giving an account	在提供账户时
874	of his method	他的方法
875	of justifying	说明理由
876	a theory of justice.	一个正义的理论。
877	You remember it's not only the veil of ignorance and the principles	你记得这不仅仅是无知的面纱和原则
878	Rawls主张的
879	It's also a method of moral reasoning,	这也是一种道德推理的方法,
880	reasoning about justice that he calls	他所说的正义的推理
881	reflective equilibrium.	反应平衡
882	What is the method of reflective equilibrium?	什么是反映平衡的方法?
883	It's moving back and forth	前后移动
884	between our	我们之间
885	considered judgments about particular cases	考虑对特定案件的判决
886	and the general principles	和一般原则
887	we would articulate	我们来阐述
888	to make sense of those judgments	使这些判决有意义
889	and not just stopping there	而不只是停留在那里,
890	because we might be wrong in our initial intuitions,	因为我们最初的直觉可能不对
891	not stopping there	不要停下来
892	but then sometimes revising our particular judgments	但有时会修改我们的具体判决
893	in the light of the principles	根据这些原则,
894	once we work them out.	一旦我们解决了他们。
895	So sometimes we revise the principles,	所以有时候我们修改原则
896	sometimes we revise our judgments and intuitions in the particular cases.	有时候,我们修改我们的判断和直觉对于特定的案件。
897	The general point is this,	问题是
898	and here I quote Rawls,	我在这里引用罗尔斯的话,
899	a conception of justice can't be deduced	正义的概念不能推论
900	from self-evident premises.	从不言自明的前提。
901	Its justification	其理由
902	is a matter of the mutual support of many considerations	是一个得到许多考虑的相互支持的问题。
903	of everything fitting together	与一切相适应
904	into one coherent view.	进入一个连贯的视野。
905	And later in A Theory of Justice he writes,	他后来在《正义理论》中写道:
906	moral philosophy is Socratic.	道德哲学是苏克拉底主义.
907	We may want to change our present considered judgments	我们也许想改变我们目前深思熟虑的判决
908	once their regulative principles	曾经是他们的规范原则
909	are brought to light.	被揭发。
910	Well,	那个
911	if Rawls accepts that idea	如果罗尔斯接受这个想法
912	and advances that notion of reflective equilibrium, the question	并推进反映平衡的概念,
913	we're left with is	我们留下的是
914	he applies that	他应用
915	to questions of justice,	司法问题,
916	not to questions	不问问题
917	of morality	道德观
918	and the good life.	还有美好生活
919	And that's why	这就是为什么
920	he remains committed to the priority of the right over the good.	他仍然致力于将权利放在好人之上。
921	He thinks the method of reflective equilibrium	他认为是反射平衡的方法
922	can generate shared judgments	能够生成共同判断
923	about justice and the right,	关于正义和权利,
924	but he doesn't think	但他不认为
925	they can generate shared judgments	它们可以产生共同的判决
926	about the good life,	关于美好生活,
927	about what he calls comprehensive moral	关于他所说的全面道德
928	and religious questions.	和宗教问题。
929	The reason he thinks that	他之所以这样想
930	is that he says that in modern societies	他说在现代社会中
931	there is a fact of reasonable pluralism about the good.	事实上,在福利方面存在着合理的多元化。
932	Even conscientious people who reason well	即使是有良心的人也有理由
933	will find that they disagree	将发现他们不同意
934	about questions	关于问题
935	of the good life,	以幸福的生活盟誓,
936	about morality and religion.	关于道德和宗教。
937	Rawls is likely	罗尔斯很可能会
938	right about that.	没错
939	He's not talking about the fact of disagreement	他不是说分歧的事实
940	in pluralist societies.	在多元社会中。
941	He's also suggesting	他还建议
942	that there may be persisting	可能存在持续性
943	disagreements	不同意见
944	about the good life	关于美好生活
945	and about moral and religious questions.	以及道德和宗教问题
946	But if that's true,	但是如果这是真的
947	then	接下来
948	is he warranted in his further claim	在进一步申诉中他是否有理由
949	that the same can't be said about justice?	正义是不能说的吗?
950	Isn't it also true	这不也是事实吗?
951	not only that we as a matter of fact disagree	不仅是事实上我们不同意
952	about justice in pluralist societies,	关于多元社会中的正义,
953	but that at least some of those disagreements are reasonable	但至少有些分歧是合理的
954	disagreements	不同意见
955	in the same way.	同样的方式。
956	Some people favor	有人喜欢
957	a libertarian theory of justice,	一个自由主义的正义理论,
958	others a more egalitarian theory of justice, and they argue.	其他人更平等的正义理论, 他们争论。
959	And there is pluralism in our society as between free market laissez-faire	我们社会在自由市场之间存在着多元化自由放纵
960	libertarian theories of justice	自由主义司法理论
961	and more egalitarian ones.	和更加平等的人,
962	Is there any difference in principle	原则上有没有区别?
963	between the kind of moral reasoning	在道德推理之间
964	and the kind of disagreements that arise when we debate about justice	以及我们辩论正义时产生的分歧
965	and the meaning of free speech	言论自由的意义
966	and the nature of religious liberty?	宗教自由的性质?
967	Look at the debates we have	看看我们的辩论
968	over	结束
969	appointees to the Supreme Court.	最高法院任命。
970	These are all disagreements about justice and rights.	这些都是关于正义和权利的分歧。
971	Is there any difference between	有什么区别吗?
972	the fact of reasonable pluralism	合理多元化的事实
973	in the case	情况
974	of justice and rights and in the case	司法与权利以及
975	of morality and religion?	道德和宗教吗?
976	In principle,	原则上,
977	I don't think that there is.	我不认为有。
978	In both cases,	在这两种情况下,
979	what we do when we disagree	我们意见不一时做什么
980	is we engage with our interlocutor	我们是否与对话者接触
981	as we've been doing here for an entire semester.	就像我们在这里做了整整一个学期。
982	We consider the arguments	我们考虑这些论点
983	that are provoked by particular cases.	由特定案件引起的。
984	We try to develop the reasons that lead us to go one way rather than another.	我们试图找出导致我们走一条路而不是另一条路的理由。
985	And then we listen to the reasons of other people.	然后我们听别人的理由。
986	And sometimes we're persuaded	有时我们被说服
987	to revise our view.	来修改我们的观点。
988	Other times we're challenged at least to shore up and strengthen our view.	其它时候我们至少要面对挑战站出来加强我们的视野
989	But this is how moral argument proceeds	但道德辩论是这样进行的
990	with justice and so it seems to me also	正义,所以在我看来
991	with questions	有问题
992	of the good life.	幸福的一生,
993	Now,	现在,
994	there remains a further worry	还有更担心的事
995	and it's a liberal worry.	这是自由派的担忧
996	What about	怎么样
997	if we're going to think of our disagreements	如果我们要考虑我们的分歧
998	about morality and religion	关于道德和宗教
999	as bound up with our disagreements about justice?	我们对于正义的分歧?
1000	How are we ever going to find our way to a society	我们怎样才能找到通往社会的道路
1001	that accords respect	给予尊重
1002	to	改为:
1003	fellow citizens with whom we disagree?	我们不同意的同胞们?
1004	It depends I think	这要看我想
1005	on which conception	在哪个概念上
1006	of respect	尊重的权利
1007	one accepts.	一个接受。
1008	On the liberal conception	关于自由概念
1009	to respect our fellow citizens moral and religious convictions	尊重我们的同胞道德和宗教信仰
1010	is so to speak	这么说吧
1011	to ignore them	无视他们
1012	for political purposes.	为了政治目的。
1013	To rise above or abstract from or to set aside	超越或抽象从或搁置
1014	those moral and religious convictions.	这些道德和宗教信仰。
1015	To leave them undisturbed	让他们不受干扰
1016	to carry on our political debate without reference to them.	继续我们的政治辩论而不提及它们。
1017	But that isn't the only way	但这不是唯一的办法
1018	or perhaps even the most	也许最
1019	plausible way	说得有道理
1020	of understanding the mutual respect	理解相互尊重
1021	on which democratic life	民主生活
1022	depends.	取决于。
1023	There is a different conception of respect	尊重的概念不同
1024	according to which we respect our fellow citizens	我们尊重同胞
1025	moral and religious convictions	道德和宗教信仰
1026	not by ignoring but by engaging them.	而不是无视,而是让他们参与。
1027	By attending to them	照顾他们
1028	sometimes by challenging and contesting them	有时通过质疑和质疑
1029	sometimes	有时候
1030	by listening	通过监听
1031	and learning from them.	和向他们学习。
1032	Now there's no guarantee	现在没有保证
1033	that a politics of moral and religious	一种道德和宗教政治
1034	attention and engagement	关注和参与
1035	will lead in any given case to agreement.	在任何特定情况下,都会达成协议。
1036	There's no guarantee it will lead even to appreciation	连感激都无法保证
1037	for the moral and religious convictions of others.	为他人的道德和宗教信仰而奋斗。
1038	It's always possible after all	毕竟永远有可能
1039	that learning more about a religious or a moral doctrine	更了解一种宗教或道德理论
1040	will lead us to like it	会让我们喜欢
1041	less.	少一点
1042	But the respect of deliberation	但尊重审议
1043	and engagement	参与
1044	seems to me a more adequate more suitable ideal for a pluralist society.	在我看来,对于多元社会来说,更合适的理想。
1045	And to the extent	和程度
1046	that our moral and religious disagreements reflect	我们的道德和宗教分歧反映了
1047	some ultimate plurality of human goods	人品的某些最终多元性
1048	a politics of moral engagement	道德参与政治
1049	will better enable us	更能让我们
1050	so it seems to me to appreciate	所以在我看来很欣赏
1051	the distinctive goods our different lives express.	我们不同生活的独特之处
1052	When we	当我们
1053	first came together some thirteen weeks ago	13周前第一次见面
1054	I spoke of the exhilaration of political philosophy	我说了政治哲学的赞美
1055	and also of its dangers	及其危险
1056	about how philosophy works	关于哲学如何运作
1057	and has always worked	并一直工作着
1058	by estranging us	因为我们被包围
1059	from the familiar	从熟悉的
1060	by unsettling	通过不安
1061	our settled assumptions.	我们的既定假设。
1062	And I tried to warn you	我试着警告你
1063	that once the familiar turns strange	一旦熟悉的人变得奇怪
1064	once we begin to reflect on our circumstance	一旦我们开始思考我们的情况
1065	it's never quite the same again.	再也不会变了
1066	I hope you have by now experienced at least a little of this unease	我希望你已经体验到至少一点点这种不安
1067	because this is the tension	因为这就是紧张
1068	that animates critical reflection	动画关键反射
1069	and political improvement	政治改善
1070	and maybe even the moral life as well.	甚至还有道德生活
1071	And so our argument comes to an end in a sense but in another sense goes on.	因此,我们的论点在某种意义上已经结束,但在另一种意义上则继续。
1072	Why, we asked at the outset,	为什么,我们一开始问,
1073	why do these arguments keep going	为什么要继续这些争论
1074	even if they raise questions	即使他们提出问题,
1075	that are impossible ever finally to resolve?	这不可能最终解决?
1076	The reason	原因
1077	is that we live some answer	是我们活在一个答案
1078	to these questions	这些问题
1079	all the time.	所有的时间。
1080	In our public life	在我们的公共生活中
1081	and in our personal lives	以及我们个人生活中
1082	philosophy is inescapable	哲学是不可避免的
1083	even	连
1084	if it sometimes seems	如果有时看起来
1085	impossible.	绝对不可能
1086	We began with the thought of Kant	我们首先想到康德
1087	that skepticism is a resting place for human reason	怀疑是人类的宿命
1088	where it can reflect upon its dogmatic wanderings	在那里它可以反射它的教条流浪
1089	but it is no dwelling place for permanent settlement.	但这里不是永久居民点。
1090	To allow ourselves simply to acquiesce in skepticism or in complacence,	仅仅允许自己默许怀疑主义或合意,
1091	Kant wrote,	康德写道:
1092	can never suffice	永远不够
1093	to overcome the restlessness of reason.	克服理性的不安
1094	The aim of this course	课程的目的
1095	has been to awaken	已经醒来
1096	the restlessness of reason	不安的理性
1097	and to see where it might lead.	并看看它可能通往何处。
1098	And if we have done at least that	如果我们至少做到了
1099	and if the restlessness	假若他们不安,
1100	continues to afflict you	继续折磨你
1101	in the days and years to come	未来的日子和岁月
1102	then we together	然后我们在一起
1103	have achieved	已经实现
1104	no small thing.	没什么小事
1105	Thank you.	谢谢
1106	Don't miss the chance to interact online with other viewers of Justice.	不要错过与司法界其他观众在线互动的机会.
1107	Join the	加入到
1108	conversation.	谈话。
1109	Take a pop quiz.	做个流行测验
1110	Watch lectures you've missed and learn a lot more.	看着你错过的讲座学到更多
1111	访问法官Harvard.org.
1112	It's the right thing to do.	谓之正法.
1113	Funding for this program is provided by	该方案的资金由下列机构提供:
1114	additional funding provided by	提供的额外资金

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