【双语音+文稿】完整访谈：美国副总统JD万斯、SpaceX马

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P1	【双语音+文稿】完整访谈：美国副总统JD万斯、SpaceX马	42:32

P1 · 【双语音+文稿】完整访谈：美国副总统JD万斯、SpaceX马斯克和英伟达 CEO黄仁勋探讨人工智能、超级智能、能源和美国未来 p01 英文版 (P1)

【双语音+文稿】完整访谈：美国副总统JD万斯、SpaceX马斯克和英伟达 CEO黄仁勋探讨人工智能、超级智能、能源和美国未来 p01 英文版 (P1)

发布于 2026-10-01 · 时长 42:32

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	Okay, good afternoon everybody.	好的,大家下午好,谢谢
0:02	The panel I think we have all been waiting for on artificial intelligence or should I say super intelligence.	我想我们一直在等待人工智能的小组或者我应该说超级智能
0:10	It is becoming one of the defining technologies of American economic strength, no doubt, national security and yes, scientific leadership.	它正在成为美国经济实力的决定性技术之一,毫无疑问,国家安全和是的,科学的领导.
0:19	The question is not whether it will shape the future, but whether America will lead the future with respect to AI.	问题不在于它是否会塑造未来,而在于美国是否会在AI方面领导未来.
0:27	So for this conversation, there is nobody better.	所以对于这次谈话,没有比这更好的了.
0:30	Please welcome Elon Musk and Jensen Huang in conversation with Gavin Baker, please.	请欢迎埃隆·穆斯克和黄杰森和加文·贝克谈话
0:50	Hey team.	嘿,团队。
0:54	Oh gee.	哦,耶稣。
0:57	Are we late?	我们迟到了吗?
1:00	Guys.	伙计们。

展开字幕全文（486 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Okay, good afternoon everybody.	好的,大家下午好,谢谢
2	The panel I think we have all been waiting for on artificial intelligence or should I say super intelligence.	我想我们一直在等待人工智能的小组或者我应该说超级智能
3	It is becoming one of the defining technologies of American economic strength, no doubt, national security and yes, scientific leadership.	它正在成为美国经济实力的决定性技术之一,毫无疑问,国家安全和是的,科学的领导.
4	The question is not whether it will shape the future, but whether America will lead the future with respect to AI.	问题不在于它是否会塑造未来,而在于美国是否会在AI方面领导未来.
5	So for this conversation, there is nobody better.	所以对于这次谈话,没有比这更好的了.
6	Please welcome Elon Musk and Jensen Huang in conversation with Gavin Baker, please.	请欢迎埃隆·穆斯克和黄杰森和加文·贝克谈话
7	Hey team.	嘿,团队。
8	Oh gee.	哦,耶稣。
9	Are we late?	我们迟到了吗?
10	Guys.	伙计们。
11	Good to be here.	很高兴来到这里。
12	Go America.	去美国
13	Team America.	美国队.
14	Yes, indeed.	是的,确实。
15	So America, Wright Brothers, first man on the moon, the internet.	美国,莱特兄弟,第一个登月的人,互联网。
16	The two of us, Wright Brothers.	我们两个,莱特兄弟
17	I like that.	我喜欢
18	Indeed.	没错
19	We've we've essentially led every major technological revolution, which has been to the enormous benefit of America.	我们基本上领导了一切重大技术革命,这给美国带来了巨大的利益.
20	Ordinary Americans, where I guess we're now calling this super intelligence, which I think is actually good branding.	普通美国人,我想我们现在称之为超级智能, 我认为这其实是很好的品牌。
21	And so let's let's talk about how America wins this and we make that winning good for ordinary Americans.	让我们来谈谈美国如何赢得胜利而我们如何让普通美国人赢得胜利
22	Well, excuse me, Diet Coke.	对不起,健怡可乐
23	Sorry.	对不起
24	So first of all, artificial super intelligence super intelligence is a complete reinvention of the computing stack.	因此,首先,人工超级智能超级智能是对计算堆栈的彻底重塑.
25	Everything from the way the processors, the chips are designed and the way they operate to the way software is now trained and developed to the way that the applications are able to perform what they're able to do and how they how they perform.	从处理器,芯片的设计方式和操作方式,到软件现在的培训和开发方式,到应用程序能够完成自己所能完成的工作和如何完成的工作.
26	Every single layer of the computing stock has been reinvented.	计算存量的每一层都被重新发明了。
27	This way of doing computing, unlike previous ways of retrieving information, this is a generative approach to to computing.	这种计算方式,与以前检索信息的方式不同,这是对计算的一种基因化方法.
28	And therefore, in order for us to succeed, the first thing we need is energy because we need the energies to to run the compute, the compute, run the algorithms, the algorithms, then feed the applications.	因此,为了我们成功,我们首先需要的是能量,因为我们需要能量来运行计算,计算,运行算法,算法,然后反馈应用。
29	And so at the at the foundational layers, energy and from that energy, we build the land power and shell and that hosts the infrastructure, so on and so forth.	因此,在地基层, 能源,以及这种能源, 我们建造土地动力和外壳, 并拥有基础设施,等等。
30	And so the way we win, of course, we are world class in chip design, we're world class in algorithm development.	因此,我们获胜的方式,当然,我们在芯片设计方面是世界一流的,在算法开发方面是世界一流的。
31	And so one of the things that we need to do is just be vigilant about enabling power delivery and power generation to happen.	因此,我们需要做的一件事就是提高警惕,让发电和发电得以实现。
32	And President Trump has been has been visionary in being pro energy without the pro energy vision of President Trump.	而特朗普总统一直富有远见,在没有特朗普总统的有利能源愿景的情况下成为亲能源.
33	It would have been impossible for us to build the data centers on top of it.	我们不可能在上面建立数据中心。
34	Now, of course, these data centers are coming online so quickly where we're coming into a lot of neighborhoods and a lot of communities.	现在,当然,这些数据中心正在如此迅速地上线, 在那里,我们进入了很多社区。
35	We have to do a better job and partner with the communities and and make and bring them along and make them part of the prosperity and the success of this industrial revolution.	我们必须做一个更好的工作,同各社区结成更好的伙伴,使这些社区携手并进,使他们成为这次工业革命繁荣和成功的一部分.
36	But that's how we win.	但我们就是这样赢的。
37	You know, we got to build the world's best chips.	你知道,我们必须打造世界上最好的筹码。
38	We got to build.	我们得建起来
39	We have to have lots and lots of energy, create incredible algorithms.	创造出不可思议的算法。
40	And then lastly, make sure that America is enthusiastic about the technology so that we diffuse it into all of these various industries, from manufacturing to health care, you know, space,	最后,确保美国热衷于技术这样我们就可以把它传播到从制造业到医疗,你知道的,太空,
41	space exploration, so on and so forth.	太空探索等.
42	Awesome.	厉害
43	Elon, how do we win?	伊隆,我们怎么赢?
44	How do we keep winning?	我们怎么继续赢?
45	Well, we need a lot of power, a lot of energy generation.	我们需要大量的电力,大量的能源。
46	So scaling energy, I think, is one of the biggest things.	所以,我认为,放大能量是最大的事情之一。
47	You've got to scale energy, you've got to scale chip production.	要规模化能源,规模化芯片生产.
48	And I think we're winning on software, on anything intellectual or digital.	我认为我们在软件上, 在任何智力或数字上都取得了胜利。
49	But in the long run, we need to be able to generate enough power to compete with, I think, essentially China is the biggest competitor.	但从长远来看,我们需要能够产生足够的力量来与,我认为,基本上中国是最大的竞争对手.
50	And China has about three times the electricity production of the United States.	而中国的电力产量大约是美国的三倍.
51	And I think we'll figure out how to make ships.	我想我们会想办法造船的
52	So really, the central challenge, I think, is long term is going to be how do you generate enough power?	所以,真的,中心挑战,我认为, 长期是你会如何产生足够的动力?
53	And how do you ensure that we have enough logic and memory fabrication capacity in the United States or in a safe region?	你如何确保我们在美国或安全地区有足够的逻辑和记忆制造能力?
54	Well, we need the Wright brothers on the job.	嗯,我们需要莱特兄弟的工作。
55	Yes.	对
56	Well, it turns out the Wright brothers are on the job.	原来莱特兄弟在工作
57	Elon, if you bring on 10 gigawatts, which SpaceX has discussed publicly, that'll be about 25% of all the power added in America.	伊隆,如果你带来10千兆瓦, SpaceX已经公开讨论过, 那将占美国新增电量的25%。
58	And I know you have literal rocket engineers working on bringing on the power, helping make the turbines.	我知道你有字面上的火箭工程师致力于带来动力, 帮助制造涡轮机。
59	So can you talk about that?	你能谈谈吗?
60	Yeah.	对
61	I mean, just to frame this, the average power consumption in the United States is about 500 gigawatts.	我的意思是,只是框架, 美国平均耗电量大约500千兆瓦。
62	So every five gigawatts of incremental steady state production is a 1% increase in the power used.	因此,每5千兆瓦的增量稳定状态生产,使用的功率就增加了1%。
63	And I think actually will materialize to be approximately 1% increase in GDP, because the intelligence per watt keeps increasing.	我认为,实际上,GDP将增长1%, 因为每瓦的智能不断增长。
64	So if you just plot on a curve, how is the useful intelligence per watt increasing?	所以,如果你在曲线上画图, 每瓦的有用智能是如何增加的?
65	Both at the hardware level, at Jensen's, GPUs keep getting better in terms of the compute per watt.	无论是在硬件层面,在Jensen的,GPU在每瓦的计算方面不断提高.
66	And the algorithms also get better in getting more intelligence per watt.	而算法在每瓦获得更多的智能方面也得到了更好的效果.
67	So that's maybe an interesting note.	这也许是个有趣的提示
68	I would bet anyone that 1% increase in power usage corresponds to roughly 1% increase in GDP.	我敢打赌,1%的功率增长相当于1%的GDP增长。
69	And so 10 gigawatts would be a 2% increase in GDP, with the Rubens, I think.	10千兆瓦的GDP增长2%, 我想是鲁本斯。
70	Well, let's do the simple math.	好吧,让我们做简单的数学。
71	So each gigawatt can probably generate about, call it 40, 50 billion dollars of economic output each year.	所以,每千兆瓦每年可以产生大约400亿美元的经济产出。
72	Yeah.	对
73	I mean, 1% would be, yeah.	我的意思是,1%将是,是的。
74	1% in the United States would be...	在美国1%是...
75	300 billion.	三千亿.
76	Yeah, 300 billion.	是啊,3000亿。
77	And so 50, 1 sixth.	还有50,1,6
78	1% of the 1% increase, so 5 gigawatts would be, yeah, well, 5 gigawatts would be 300 billion.	增加1%的1%, 所以5千兆瓦将是,嗯,5千兆瓦将是3000亿。
79	Yeah, right.	没错
80	Exactly, 60 billion a gigawatt.	没错,600亿千兆瓦。
81	That's right.	没错
82	The math maths.	数学数学.
83	That's what we're good at.	这就是我们擅长的。
84	Yes, yes.	对,对。
85	So that's quite a bit.	所以这是相当一点。
86	Not good at too many other things, but math.	不擅长很多其他的事情,但数学。
87	Yeah, I mean, it's going to increase quite dramatically year over year.	是的,我的意思是,它会相当猛增的一年。
88	So, yeah, I mean, from a SpaceX standpoint, we're looking at long-term how do we access a lot more energy than could be accessed on the ground.	所以,从SpaceX的角度来说, 我们正在研究我们如何获得比地面上更多的能量。
89	And that's with space.	这是与空间。
90	So orbital compute is going to be a very big deal.	所以轨道计算将是一个非常大的问题。
91	In fact, and Google agrees, they just actually sent up or are either about to or soon about to send up some TPUs.	事实上,Google也同意, 他们只是实际发送, 或者即将或即将发送一些TPU。
92	I think there was an H100 that was put into orbit like last year, I think.	我认为有一架H100 和去年一样被送入轨道
93	So it does work in space.	所以它确实在太空工作。
94	And SpaceX is aiming, together with Tesla, to do 200 gigawatts of solar production per year.	而SpaceX正与Tesla一起致力于每年完成200千兆瓦的太阳能生产.
95	And if brought to space, you get the nameplate or better on the solar power.	如果带到太空,你可以得到命名牌或更好的太阳能。
96	Whereas if it's on the ground, you're going to get somewhere between a fifth and an eighth of the solar power generation.	如果它位于地面上, 你将会获得五分之一到八分之一的太阳能发电。
97	And you need enormous batteries.	你需要巨大的电池。
98	So whereas it's essentially always sunny in space.	所以,虽然它基本上总是阳光的空间。
99	And right now is a great time to do it because the economic returns of these computing systems are so good that the launch cost,	而现在是一个伟大的时机做到这一点,因为这些计算系统的经济回报如此好,发射成本,
100	although it's still quite high in terms of the overall economic benefit, is quite affordable.	虽然就整体经济效益而言它仍然相当高,但相当可以承受.
101	Absolutely.	当然
102	This is the perfect time to do it.	这是做到这一点的最佳时机。
103	Putting NVIDIA compute in space is the best way to get there.	将NVIDIA计算在太空是到达那里的最佳方法.
104	Climbing the Kardashev scale with American power and American chips on American rockets, I love it.	攀登卡达舍夫级拥有美国力量和美国芯片美国火箭,我喜欢它。
105	So, Jensen, you said something that I thought was important about how when we bring the energy to all these small towns,	所以,詹森,你说了一些我认为很重要的事情当我们把能量带到这些小镇,
106	we're re-industrializing America.	我们正在重新工业化美国。
107	We're revitalizing small towns.	振兴小城镇.
108	We're modernizing the grid.	我们正在更新电网。
109	These are things that essentially every American politician has wanted for the last 35 years.	这些都是过去35年来美国政治家们所希望的
110	What would you say, what are some specifics you can give about how data centers are good for ordinary Americans in the communities	你会怎么说,你可以给出一些细节关于数据中心如何对社区中的普通美国人有好处
111	and how they're getting better for those communities?	和他们是如何变得更好这些社区?
112	Yeah, we used to call them data centers.	是啊,我们曾经叫它们数据中心。
113	We call them data centers because that's where we hold data.	我们称它们为数据中心,因为我们把数据存放在那里。
114	But the things that we're building now, these are really SI factories, superintelligence factories.	但是我们现在正在建造的东西, 这些真的是SI工厂,超级智能工厂。
115	And the reason why it's a factory is because you're producing something of economic value.	而工厂之所以如此,是因为你正在生产一些具有经济价值的东西。
116	You're just not storing it.	你只是没有储存它。
117	And so these SI factories are real factories.	所以这些SI工厂是真正的工厂.
118	It's like a big, giant power generator in real factories.	这就像一个大,巨大的发电机在真正的工厂。
119	It's got a lot of computing and networking in there, power generation, cooling systems.	它拥有大量的计算和网络,发电,冷却系统.
120	It's complicated things.	事情很复杂
121	And so we're building out, you know, just as the Internet today allows you to find anything anywhere,	所以,我们正在建设,你知道, 就像今天的互联网允许你找到任何地方,
122	in the future with these AI, excuse me, SI infrastructure, SI factories, you'll be able to know anything and do anything from anywhere.	将来用这些AI, 原谅我,SI基础设施,SI工厂, 你会能够知道任何事情,做任何事情从任何地方。
123	And so now we're building this infrastructure out.	现在我们正在建造这个基础设施。
124	And, you know, we call it across all of the United States, somewhere between 10, 20 gigawatts a year.	而且,你知道,我们称之为全美国, 每年大约10,20千兆瓦。
125	That creates just, you know, probably about a million jobs in building out these data centers.	这创造了大概一百万个工作来建立这些数据中心。
126	Don't forget, you've got to build the power generation plants.	别忘了,要建设发电站.
127	You've got to build the data centers.	你必须建立数据中心。
128	You've got construction.	你有建筑。
129	You've got, you know, power cooling.	你有,你知道, 电冷。
130	You've got, you know, pipe fitters.	你有,你知道的, 管道发泡器。
131	And so this is the first time in probably, as you mentioned, 35, I was going to say 50 years, first time in 50 years,	所以,这可能是第一次, 正如你提到的, 35,我要说50年, 第一次在50年,
132	we are re-industrializing the United States, creating a whole bunch of blue collar jobs.	我们正在重新工业化美国, 创造一大堆蓝领工作。
133	And I think we want an economy that has a shape that includes white collar jobs and blue collar jobs, not just white collar jobs.	我想我们想要一个包括白领工作和蓝领工作的经济不仅仅是白领工作
134	And so I think that this is our great chance of reshaping our economy and bringing that type of builders and craft back into the United States.	所以我认为,这是我们重塑经济, 并将这种建筑者和工艺品带回美国的巨大机会。
135	Absolutely.	当然
136	它,我的意思是,它的感觉像Colossus和MacroHard 和MacroHard所做的是惊人的。
137	The communities around them, the jobs they've created.	他们周围的社区, 他们创造的工作。
138	How do you think about that?	你觉得怎么样?
139	Yeah, the economic impact, the positive economic impact has been tremendous.	是啊,经济影响, 积极的经济影响是巨大的。
140	I mean, there's actually a job shortage in the region, whereas there used to be quite a bit of unemployment.	我的意思是,该地区实际上存在缺少工作, 而过去有相当一部分失业。
141	And now it's, there's over-employment, if you will.	现在,这是,有过度就业,如果你愿意。
142	There's more jobs than there are people.	就业比人多.
143	And the tax benefits for the community have been tremendous.	税收给社区带来了巨大的好处。
144	I think we might have doubled their tax budget or something quite tremendous.	我认为我们可能已经加倍他们的税收预算或相当巨大的东西。
145	And we do like small things that are helpful, like provide, you know, low-priced, half-priced Starlink access.	我们确实喜欢一些小的帮助, 比如提供,你知道,低价,半价的Starlink访问。
146	We're building a water recycling plant that's a $250 million water recycling plant.	我们正在建设一座耗资2.5亿元的水回收厂.
147	I think you do need to do things for the community.	我认为你确实需要为社区做一些事情。
148	And if you do so, they will reciprocate.	如果你这样做,他们会回报。
149	Awesome.	厉害
150	Now, one of the things that people forget is that for the first time in probably forever that we have the market forces to support the investment of sustainable energy.	现在,人们忘记的一件事是, 这可能是我们有史以来第一次有市场力量支持可持续能源的投资。
151	You give me an example of a fusion, fission, you know, small nuclear reactor, large reactor.	你给我一个核聚变裂变小型核反应堆大型反应堆的例子
152	Almost every form of sustainable energy is being funded today.	今天,几乎每一种形式的可持续能源都得到了资助。
153	And so we have the opportunity to fund the future of energy without, without the government subsidizing, without, right?	所以我们有机会为能源的未来提供资金没有,没有政府补贴,没有,对不对?
154	I mean, we, this is, you give me an example of a great energy battery storage idea.	我的意思是,我们,这是, 你给我一个例子一个伟大的能量电池存储的想法。
155	It's going to get funded.	将得资粮.
156	Awesome.	厉害
157	By the way, on behalf of all Americans, I want to thank both of you.	顺便说一句,我代表所有美国人, 感谢你们两个。
158	I think combined you have created more than $5 trillion of wealth for ordinary Americans in their 401Ks.	我认为你们为401K的普通美国人创造了超过5万亿美元的财富。
159	Tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of jobs directly, many tens of billions of wages.	数万个,也许数十万个直接工作,数以百计的工资.
160	So thank you.	谢谢
161	I think this is done privately by himself, actually.	我认为这其实是他自己私下做的
162	I'm sorry.	对不起
163	I think this is done privately by himself.	我想这是自己一个人做的
164	I think I can like around three and a half or something.	我想我可以喜欢左右三半什么的。
165	I was trying to be conservative.	我试图保守。
166	Yes.	对
167	So you guys both had a great Monday.	你们周一玩得很开心
168	I was watching the Starship launch.	我在看星舰发射
169	First orbital Starship launch while I was reading about the open agent safety framework from Nvidia, which was an exciting morning.	我读到Nvidia的开放代理安全框架时第一次发射轨道星舰,这是一个令人兴奋的早晨。
170	So maybe, maybe, maybe you could each talk about each of those because we need Starship to get those 200 gigawatts of American solder with American chips, American super intelligence into orbit.	所以也许,也许,也许,也许,你可以每个人谈论每一个,因为我们需要星舰让200千兆瓦的美国销售机与美国芯片, 美国超级智能进入轨道。
171	I'll talk about his and he talks on mine.	我会谈他和他谈我的
172	No, I'm just kidding.	不,我只是在开玩笑。
173	So let's see.	让我们来看看。
174	As you know, we want to advance AI, advance SI.	如你所知,我们想推进AI,推进SI.
175	I'm going to get good at this.	将得精进.
176	We're going to advance SI in a responsible and optimistic way.	我们要以负责和乐观的方式推进SI.
177	And we know that the future, we strongly believe that the future that SI is going to enable is a future that we want to be part of.	我们知道,未来,我们坚信, SI将要带来的未来, 是我们希望成为的一部分。
178	And so we're optimistic about that.	所以我们对此很乐观。
179	And that's the reason why we're driving so hard.	这就是我们开车这么用力的原因
180	On the other hand, we have to make sure that we develop this technology safely and securely.	另一方面,我们必须确保安全地发展这种技术。
181	There are several different parts of it.	有好几个不同的部分。
182	While you're training the model, that's that's generally a fairly safe environment.	当你训练这个模型的时候, 那一般是一个相当安全的环境。
183	But while you're evaluating the model, when you're testing the model, you have to make sure that the agent agentic system, the model itself is highly contained.	但在评价模型时,在测试模型时,必须保证代理系统,模型本身受到高度控制.
184	That containment system has to be really secure.	这种控制系统必须非常安全。
185	And the second thing is that while you're while you're testing it, you want to monitor that that just because just even though even though you have a contained, you should never trust that it's contained.	第二件事是,当你在测试的时候, 你想要监测它, 只是因为即使你有一个控制, 你不应该相信它已经控制。
186	And so you want to monitor it in real time.	所以你想实时监控它
187	And you want to ideally monitor it with another another chip so that it is outside, you know, if you will call out of band outside the environment outside the sandbox of the agent itself.	你想最好用另一个芯片来监视它, 这样它就在外面,你知道的,如果你要呼唤出乐队环境之外, 代理商本身的沙盒。
188	And so you want to contain and you want to monitor.	所以,你想控制和你想监视。
189	Once you're done evaluating in this way, when you deploy, you want to use a very similar system.	一旦以这种方式完成评价,当部署时,你想使用一个非常相似的系统.
190	And this is no different than than just about any digital any human employee that you hire.	这和任何数字化的员工没什么不同。
191	You've given them a containment of rights and tools and access, and then you monitor on a regular basis on a continuous basis.	你给了他们权利、工具和访问,然后你定期持续地监测。
192	And so in the case of agents, we just have to make sure containment and monitoring has to be done in the most secure of ways.	因此,就物剂而言,我们只需要确保控制和监测工作必须以最安全的方式进行。
193	And we introduced two technologies, one's called Open Shell.	我们引进了两种技术,一种叫做开放壳牌。
194	It's a containment system.	这是一种封闭系统。
195	It's basically kind of like a browser for websites.	基本上就像网站的浏览器。
196	It's now essentially a browser of agents and that browser keeps the agent isolated from the rest of the computer.	现在基本上是一个代理的浏览器,浏览器将代理与电脑的其余部分隔离.
197	And the rights that you give it are only the rights it should have.	你赋予它的权利只是它应该拥有的权利。
198	And then the monitoring system is a new chip called Bluefield, and it keeps an eye on everything that the agent is doing at all times.	之后的监控系统是一个叫做Bluefield的新芯片,它一直关注着特工在任何时候都在做的一切.
199	And if it does anything that's out of bounds and against the policy that has been given, then it escalates as far as you need it to escalate.	如果它做了任何超出界限和违背已经给予的政策的事情,那么它就会升级到你需要的程度.
200	And I thought it was a great analogy in the technical blog where you said in the early days of Internet, everybody was worried about your credit card could get stolen.	我认为这在技术博客中是一个很好的类比。在互联网早期,你曾说, 每个人都担心你的信用卡会被偷。
201	We made the Internet safe, and that's why we have Amazon, we have Netflix, we have Google, we have X.	我们让互联网安全了, 这就是为什么我们有亚马逊, 我们有Netflix, 我们有谷歌, 我们有X。
202	We have so many great things because we made the Internet safe.	我们有很多伟大的东西,因为我们使互联网安全。
203	Now we're doing the same with AI.	现在我们对AI也一样
204	And safety is not inconsistent with advancing the technology.	而安全性与推进技术并不矛盾.
205	Safety and advancing the technology is one and the same thing.	安全和推进技术是一回事。
206	It's no different than when you have autopilot.	和自动驾驶没什么区别
207	Not only is it advanced technology, it's also safer technology.	它不仅是先进的技术,也是更安全的技术.
208	And so you advance the technology in that way.	因此,你以这种方式推进技术。
209	The two are not in conflict.	两者没有冲突。
210	The idea that if you advance capability, it somehow compromises safety.	这个想法,如果你提高能力, 它在某种程度上会损害安全。
211	If you advance safety, somehow you fall behind.	如果你推进安全,不知怎的你落在后面。
212	Those are false choices.	这些都是错误的选择。
213	Yeah, safety lets us accelerate.	是啊,安全让我们加速。
214	But Elon, if the Starship is going to be a big part of those 200 gigawatts, what can you tell us about Monday's flight, what you learned, how you're feeling about the program?	但是伊隆,如果"星际飞船"要成为这200千兆瓦中的一大部分, 你能告诉我们周一的飞行情况, 你学到了什么,你对节目有什么感觉?
215	I think the Starship is going great.	我觉得星际飞船很顺利
216	We took Starship to orbit for the first time, and we deployed Starlink B3 satellites, which are enormous satellites.	我们第一次将星舰送入轨道,我们部署了星际链接B3卫星,这些卫星是巨大的卫星.
217	I mean, these are satellites with wingspan of 737, so really enormous.	我的意思是,这些卫星的翼展为737,非常庞大。
218	In fact, it's the largest payload delivered to orbit since Skylab.	事实上,它是自Skylab以来送入轨道的最大有效载荷.
219	So now we expect Starship to ultimately, well, next year I think, probably reach a weekly or twice-weekly cadence.	所以现在我们期望星际飞船最终,嗯,我想明年, 可能达到每周或两周的低调。
220	We've got not Tom Brown here.	这里没有汤姆·布朗
221	I know him by his ex-handle.	我认识他的前手。
222	Welcome.	欢迎
223	Good to see you guys again.	很高兴再次见到你们。
224	It's a long night.	长夜'.
225	Yes, it was.	没错
226	My car took a wrong turn, so you guys got here faster than me.	我的车转错弯了你们来得比我快
227	Impressive.	厉害
228	I'm glad you made it.	我很高兴你能来
229	So, but Elon, please continue.	伊隆请继续
230	We're talking about how Starship is going to let us get to 200 gigs of American solar with American ships with American superintelligence.	我们说的是星际飞船如何让美国太阳能和美国超级智能的美国飞船达到200兆吨
231	Yeah, so Starship is going to do a lot of things.	是啊,所以星舰会做很多事情。
232	I mean, it's intended to carry enough payload to the moon and Mars to build a self-growing city on the moon or Mars.	我的意思是,它的意图是携带足够的有效载荷到月球和火星,以便在月球或火星上建立一个自我成长的城市.
233	So I think as a rough-order magnitude, you need about a million tons to deliver to the surface of the moon to create a self-growing city or a similar number from Mars.	所以,我认为作为一个粗略的顺序量, 你需要大约一百万吨来运送到月球表面来创造一个自我成长的城市或类似的火星数字。
234	And then in addition, it will launch at least 300 gigawatts a year of AI compute.	此外,它每年至少将推出300千兆瓦的AI计算.
235	200 gigawatts a year would be a 40% increase annually in the United States total energy consumption.	每年200千兆瓦的能源消耗量将每年增加40%。
236	So that's quite a big number.	所以这是相当大的数字。
237	And it might end up being a terawatt one day.	有一天它可能会变成千兆瓦。
238	So this is serious tonnage.	所以这是严重的吨位。
239	Awesome.	厉害
240	And Tom, Anthropic, your company, your co-founder of Anthropic, you announced Opus 5.5 in the last several days.	汤姆,安特罗皮克,你的公司,你的安特罗皮克联合创始人, 你在过去几天里宣布了Opus 5.5。
241	And I thought maybe we'd go to the exponential that we are on.	我想也许我们可以去指数我们是在。
242	And I think it's helpful to ground what can Opus 5.5 and maybe it's for everybody.	我认为它有帮助地面什么可以 Opus 5.5, 也许这是每个人。
243	What can Opus 5.5 do to make the lives of ordinary Americans better today?	奥普斯5.5能做些什么让普通美国人今天的生活更美好?
244	And where are we going to be in a year?	一年后我们要去哪儿?
245	Yeah, so Opus 5.5 is a model that I think just continues the normal progress that we've had of getting kind of more IQ points for each of these superintelligences.	所以,Opus 5.5是一个模型, 我认为只是继续我们的正常进展, 我们得到了更多的智商点对于每一个超级智能。
246	With each model release.	每个模型发布。
247	And so the main things that people will see if they use it now is that it can do a task that takes a longer time than they'd be able to delegate to a previous model.	所以人们会看到,如果现在使用它,主要的事情是,它可以做一个任务,比他们能够委托给之前的模型需要更长的时间.
248	And so I think the things that people should see is just like as a normal American, if you want a task, if you want to actually delegate a task to it, it will be able to do that better, is one thing.	所以,我认为人们应该看到的东西就像一个普通的美国人, 如果你想要一个任务, 如果你真的想把一个任务交给它, 它就能做得更好,这是一件事。
249	And then two is the thing that I think people notice less, which is just that there's going to be a huge amount of software being written by these models.	有两个是我认为人们不太注意的问题, 就是这些模型会写出大量的软件。
250	And so all of the products that people use are going to be getting higher quality, cheaper over time.	因此人们使用的所有产品质量将会越来越高, 随着时间的推移会更便宜。
251	And it'll have this effect of just like all of the all of the tools that we use now were written by like people doing engineering work.	它将产生这种效果就像我们现在使用的所有工具一样就像人们在做工程一样
252	And now it's going to be written by both people and superintelligences doing much, much more engineering work than what's possible before.	而现在,它将会被人们和超级情报机构共同写成,做比以前更多的工程工作.
253	Absolutely.	当然
254	But I think it's doing so much more than this.	但我认为它做这么多超过这一点。
255	There's already multiple stories of AI, I'm sorry, superintelligence, superintelligence, finding a life saving drug that can be used for a disease that it wasn't understood that it could safely treat.	已经有很多关于AI,I'm sorry, 超级智能,超级智能的故事,找到一种救生药物,可以用于一种无法理解的可以安全治疗的疾病.
256	So it's saving lives.	故救众生.
257	I think it's having profound impacts on education.	我认为这对教育产生了深远的影响.
258	But maybe each of you could talk for ordinary Americans, what superintelligence doing today and what's it going to be able to do in a year?	但也许你们每个人都能为普通美国人说话, 超级情报机构今天做什么, 一年后还能做什么?
259	I'm an ordinary American and I use I use Claude to help me do research.	我是一个普通的美国人我用克劳德来帮我做研究
260	And instead of giving me just answers and most of my research that maybe there's comparative research that I'm doing and there's two or three different approaches to something.	而不是给我简单的答案, 和我的大部分研究, 也许有比较研究,我在做, 有两三个不同的方法东西。
261	And I wanted to answer a list of different questions and compare and contrast rates of rates of growth or rates of change or whatever it is.	我想回答一系列不同的问题, 比较和对比增长率或变化率, 或它是什么。
262	And so I describe literally every single question I have and nothing gives me more joy than and I ask it to create a nice report and plot it out.	所以,我逐个描述我每个问题, 没有什么能让我更高兴了, 我要求它写出一份很好的报告,并把它写出来。
263	I mean, sometimes it's a pie chart, sometimes it's a bar graph.	我的意思是,有时它是一个派图, 有时它是一个条形图。
264	And I just enter and nothing gives me more joy than just watch it go and it comes back and it creates a beautiful, you know, beautiful report.	我刚刚进入,没有什么能让我更快乐的了, 胜过看着它去,它回来,它创造了一个美丽的,你知道的,美丽的报告。
265	And then instead of instead of researching all these different topics for four, six, eight hours, which back in the old days I would on a weekend, you know, learn something new.	而不是在4,6,8小时的时间里研究所有这些不同的话题, 回到过去,我会在周末学到一些新的东西。
266	It goes off and creates me this really, really beautiful final report in about three minutes.	它在大约三分钟内给我带来了这份非常,非常美丽的最后报告。
267	And, you know, it's all condensed and now you're getting smarter, faster.	而且,你知道,这一切都凝结了, 现在你越来越聪明,更快。
268	Love it.	喜欢它。
269	What about for you?	你怎么样?
270	How are you seeing superintelligence helping ordinary Americans?	你看到超情报帮助普通美国人吗?
271	What do you think it'll do in a year or two?	一两年后会怎么样?
272	Maybe a year or two.	也许一两年。
273	Take a year or two from now.	今从一二.
274	Yeah, well, I think it's it's helping people organize their lives and do better at their jobs.	是啊,我想是帮助人们组织他们的生活,做更好的工作。
275	So I think it really will become essential if it isn't already for people to use AI for in their professional lives, certainly and in their private lives.	因此,我认为,如果人们在职业生活中,当然在私人生活中,还没有使用AI,那将变得非常必要。
276	And so AI is just an incredibly helpful, useful thing.	所以,AI只是一个令人难以置信的帮助,有用的东西。
277	You know, I've heard many anecdotes of AI helping people with medical issues and in many cases where the doctor was wrong and they submitted their x-rays or MRI to to AI and and AI got it right.	我听过很多关于AI的传闻, 帮助人们解决医疗问题, 在许多情况下,医生是错的, 他们把他们的X光或核磁共振提交AI,
278	And but but for AI, they would have died.	如果不是AI的话他们早就死了
279	And I've heard many such cases.	我听过很多这样的案子
280	Awesome.	厉害
281	And hopefully Opus 56 tells Tom, don't take that left, take the right.	希望Opus 56告诉汤姆,不要左转,右转。
282	I think it's important these these superintelligences, they're imbued with the values of their creators.	我认为这些超级情报很重要, 他们充满了创造者的价值观。
283	And we do have there are American values that we all share.	我们确实有我们共有的美国价值观。
284	The First Amendment, free speech, commitment to truth.	第一修正案言论自由承诺真理
285	Can you can you talk about what each of you are doing to imbue help make sure that these these superintelligences are imbued with with the right values?	你能说说你们每个人在做什么来帮助确保这些超级情报充满正确的价值吗?
286	Are we allowed to say anything controversial?	我们是否可以说些有争议的话?
287	Say something controversial.	说些有争议的话
288	OK, so so I the SIs are tools and and the challenge with an SI with values, meaning it has judgment, depending on how you use that SI, it may decide how it decides.	好吧,所以我SI是工具和与SI的挑战有值,意味着它有判断力, 取决于你如何使用SI, 它可能决定它如何决定。
289	It may judge you and its effectiveness would be affected by that judgment.	它可能评判你,其效力将受到该判决的影响。
290	And so it's a little bit like a steak knife where if you if you were served medium well, it cuts perfectly.	所以它有点像牛排刀在那里,如果你得到很好的服务, 它的切得非常好。
291	But if you were served rare steak and it looks awfully like live meat, somehow it doesn't cut.	但是,如果你得到稀有牛排它看起来非常像活肉, 不知怎的它不切。
292	And so I think there's a there's a you know, there's a there's a question in my mind yet about how much judgment you really want these tools to have.	所以,我想有一个你知道的, 有一个问题,在我脑海里,有一个问题, 关于你真正想要这些工具有多少判断。
293	And so the intentions of the user, you know, obviously I use I use the knife as an example, but you can think of a whole bunch of other examples.	所以,使用者的意图,你知道, 显然,我用刀作为例子, 但你可以想到很多其他的例子。
294	The intentions are a little bit different.	其意略别.
295	You know, whether you're a defender or an attacker, for example, in cybersecurity, the defenders actions could resemble an attacker.	无论是卫士还是攻击者比如网络安全方面的卫士行动都可能像攻击者
296	And you want the defender, you want this SI to activate on behalf of the defender, even though it appears to be an aggressive action.	你想要捍卫者,你希望这个SI代表捍卫者激活,尽管它看起来是一种侵略行动.
297	Right.	对
298	I think we're running up on time.	我想我们赶时间了
299	But maybe if you guys could share if you spent a lot of time at the White House, is there anything that you can share share with the world about what came out of what was evidently a long and productive lunch?	但是,也许你们可以分享如果你花了很多时间在白宫,有什么可以分享与世界分享的关于什么出来明显是一个长和富有成效的午餐?
300	We did good.	我们做得很好。
301	Yeah, we signed a joint declaration regarding SI safety.	是的,我们签了一份关于职业安全协会的联合声明。
302	And I think I think that'll be published by the White House soon if it hasn't been already.	我想如果还没有出版,白宫会很快出版。
303	But we agreed to a number of things that include joint monitoring or special committees and just generally grading each other's homework,	但是,我们同意了一些事情,包括联合监测或特别委员会, 并且只是一般地对彼此的功课进行分级,
304	which is a lot better than if people just grade their own homework for obvious reasons and includes everything.	这比人们因为明显的原因给自己的功课分级好得多包括一切
305	It includes everything from rigorous internal controls, well-established methods, well-established processes, very clearly documented intentions of the products that you're building,	它包括从严格的内部控制, 完善的方法, 完善的流程, 非常清楚的文件意图你正在构建的产品,
306	internal controls to make sure that you're delivering on those intentions, internal audited that that escalates external audits from from a third party and and then industries sharing best practices.	内部监控可以确保你实现这些意图, 内部审计可以提升外部审计从第三方,然后行业分享最佳做法。
307	I thought that the the the declaration has has has a lot of teeth.	吾以为宣宗多有齿.
308	I thought it was really well written and I think this is a practice that that, quite frankly, as standards for our industry going forward, every every single company out of embrace.	我认为这书写得非常好我认为这是个惯例, 坦率地说,作为我们行业前进的标准, 每一个公司都不受欢迎。
309	And so POTUS POTUS pulled it all together.	于是,总统把这一切拉到一起。
310	He he watched over the meeting and was able to bring everybody out.	他看着会议,并能够把所有人带出去。
311	And, you know, I thought it was it was really well run.	而且,你知道,我认为这是真的运行良好。
312	Awesome.	厉害
313	Well, on behalf of all Americans, thank thank all of you for doing everything you can to make the future as awesome and optimistic for American Americans as you can.	代表所有美国人,感谢大家尽你所能,使未来变得像美国美国人一样伟大和乐观.
314	而你却如此 And you are.
315	So thank you.	谢谢
316	Thank you.	谢谢
317	It's been a lot of fun.	常乐众生.
318	All right, everybody.	好了,大家来
319	Well, thank you so much.	非常感谢
320	And if that wasn't exciting enough, without further ado, we now have the vice president of the United States, JD Vance, joined by Mr.	如果这还不够令人激动的话,不用再多费口舌,我们现在有美国副总统万斯(JD Vance)加入.
321	Joe Gebbia to engage in a wonderful conversation about a topic we love in the Trump administration, fraud.	乔·杰比亚在特朗普政府的一个话题上进行了精彩的谈话欺诈
322	So please give it up for the vice president of the United States.	所以,请放弃它美国副总统。
323	You work more than they're paid.	你的工作比他们薪水还多
324	Welcome to Hello America.	欢迎来到美国
325	Yeah, it's great to be here.	是啊,这是伟大的在这里。
326	Congratulations.	祝贺你
327	I know you guys were working very hard on this thing down the stretch.	我知道你们很努力地研究这件事
328	So congratulations.	恭喜你们
329	It's it's it's an amazing thing to see it get off the ground.	谓观其离地妙法.
330	Thank you so much.	非常感谢
331	It's a great effort this morning and he's been working away.	今天早上很努力,他一直在工作
332	But great to have you here.	但很高兴你能来
333	And I thought we would draft off of the conversation is just taking place.	我想我们把谈话收起来才刚刚开始
334	And you were just coming from an event over the White House talking about that topic with the leaders of the industry.	你刚刚从白宫上空的一次活动和业界的领袖们讨论这个话题
335	So I thought it'd be interesting to share a recap of the audience observations, perspectives that came out of the lunch that you can share, of course.	所以我认为,分享一下观众的观察, 以及你们可以分享的午餐中产生的观点,会很有趣。
336	Yeah.	对
337	Well, first of all, Joe, congratulations to your team again.	首先乔再次祝贺你的团队
338	You know, when when Joe and I first started talking about this, the one thing I said is don't let it be a clusterfuck like America dot gov.	你知道,当我和乔开始谈论这个, 我说的一件事是不要让它像美国dot gov一样是一个集束他妈的。
339	Hopefully.	希望是这样
340	Oh, sorry.	对不起
341	Excuse me.	对不起。
342	Hopefully no kids in the back or should be like health care dot gov.	希望后面没有孩子或应该像医疗保健dotgov。
343	And America dot gov has got to be the good version of that.	美国的dot gov 必须是很好的版本。
344	And I think you guys have done an amazing job.	我觉得你们做得很棒
345	So give it up to Joe and his team.	所以放弃给乔和他的团队
346	An amazing thing.	一件不可思议的事
347	You know, it is possible actually to build good software tools for the American people.	实际上,为美国人民建造良好的软件工具是可能的。
348	You just have to have competent people doing it.	你只需要有能干的人来做
349	That's exactly what you've done.	这就是你所做的。
350	So let's say they obviously, you know, be a little bit a little bit careful about it because it was a private conversation.	因此,让我们假设,很明显,你知道的, 要小心一点,因为它是一个私人谈话。
351	But what the president wanted to do is obviously be responsive, first of all, to the American people's concerns because you have a lot of doomerism about A.I.	但是,总统想要做的显然是首先对美国人民的关切作出反应,因为你对A.I.有很多的杜默主义.
352	or superintelligence, as we're now calling it.	或者超级情报,就像我们现在所说的
353	And there's a lot of you know, what's what's actually happening here.	有很多人知道, 到底发生了什么。
354	And I think a lot of Americans, when they think of A.I.	我想很多美国人,当他们想到A. I.
355	or S.I., they think, oh, my God, this is Skynet, right?	或S. I,他们认为, 哦,我的上帝,这是天网,对不对?
356	They think the Terminators are going to come and take over everything and, you know, take over our nuclear weapons and have the robots running around killing people.	他们认为终结者会来接管一切并接管我们的核武器让机器人到处杀人
357	And that's just not going to happen.	而那只是不会发生。
358	That's actually not going to happen.	这实际上不会发生。
359	Now, what could happen is you have people who are building A.I.	现在,可能发生的事情是你的人正在建造人工智能。
360	tools, not actually being careful about what they're doing, about the responsibility they have to build products that actually work, that don't hurt people, et cetera, et cetera.	工具,实际上不小心他们在做什么, 他们的责任建造的产品实际工作, 不伤害人,等等,等等。
361	And I think what the president wanted to drive home was, you know, we need to actually have a A.I.	我想总统想开车回家的是,你知道,我们需要一个A. I.
362	conversation that's built around making sure these tools actually work, but not absolving companies of their responsibility to build things that are actually safe and actually work.	对话是围绕着确保这些工具实际发挥作用, 而不是解除公司的责任, 建造一些真正安全、实际可行的东西。
363	And there's been this weird dynamic where a lot of people who are developing the frontier models and artificial intelligence, they'll come out and they'll say, oh, my God, this is a terrible, terrible thing we're building.	有一种怪异的动态, 很多人正在开发前沿模型和人工智能, 他们会出来,然后说,哦,我的上帝, 这是一个可怕的,可怕的东西,我们正在建造。
364	It's like, well, if you're building a terrible, terrible thing, then stop and build something good.	这就像,嗯,如果你正在建造一个可怕的,可怕的东西, 然后停下来和建造一些好的东西。
365	Don't come to the government and regulate it.	别来政府管理.
366	You know, it's like a kid who who just can't stop eating cookies.	你知道,这就像一个孩子谁只是不能停止吃饼干。
367	It's like I just please government come and help me stop eating these cookies.	我就像请政府来帮我停止吃这些饼干
368	No, no, no.	不,不,没有。
369	You have to exercise some responsibility over your own products.	您必须对自己的产品负责。
370	And I think that that is the first the cookie jar up to the top of the shelf.	我认为这是第一个饼干罐子到货架的顶端。
371	Exactly.	没错
372	And the first step here is just to actually hear this term alignment.	第一步就是听这个术语的对齐。
373	I think the most important alignment is for the frontier models to realize that they have to build products that are actually safe and good for American consumers.	我认为最重要的调整是让边疆模型认识到,它们必须制造出真正对美国消费者安全,有益的产品.
374	And if they understand that the government actually has preexisting laws on the books where if you build something that gets unleashed on the Internet that is used as a tool for cyber warfare,	如果他们知道政府实际上有预先存在的法律在书上如果你建造的东西被释放在互联网上用作网络战的工具,
375	then you have responsibility for the products you develop in the same way that a pharmaceutical company has products liability for unsafe pharmaceutical products or in the same way that,	你对开发的产品负有责任就像制药公司对不安全的药品负有产品责任一样
376	you know, if you build something that plumbers use to fix people's houses and it doesn't work, you actually have responsibility.	你知道,如果你建造一些水管工用来修补人们的房子却不起作用的东西, 你实际上有责任。
377	And I think reemphasizing that important primacy of product liability, making sure your products actually work and taking responsibility over these tools is very, very important.	我认为,重新强调产品责任的重要首要地位, 确保你们的产品真正发挥作用,并对这些工具承担责任,是非常重要的。
378	Now, obviously, there are risks to AI and we talked about that during the lunch today.	显然,AI有风险,我们在今天的午餐会上谈到了这一点。
379	But I think the president wanted to say, look, the solution to some of the AI risks is for you guys to take the risks seriously, not to come to the government for a regulatory regime that may make things worse if it's not smart and careful, which is exact	但我认为总统想说,看,解决一些AI风险的办法,是你们认真对待这些风险,而不是来政府寻求一个管制制度,如果它不聪明小心,可能会使事情变得更糟,这正是总统想要的.
380	And that metaphor of product liability, what is the group that oversees when somebody makes a violation, FDA or similar in your mind?	这个产品责任的比喻是什么? 当有人违反,FDA或类似的东西在你脑海里时, 监督的团体是什么?
381	Yeah, I mean, I think the obvious, you know, the two obvious agencies are the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, and also the Department of Justice, right?	是的,我的意思是,我认为,很明显,你知道, 两个明显的机构是公平贸易委员会,联邦贸易委员会, 以及司法部,对不对?
382	If you create a product in the United States today that violates some right of the consumer, that actually doesn't work as advertised, that causes some harm, then we have, again, pre-existing regulatory agencies.	如果你今天在美国制造一种侵犯消费者某些权利的产品, 它实际上不起作用的广告, 造成一些伤害, 那么,我们又有原有的管理机构。
383	I've heard some talk about, you know, do you need an FDA or an FAA for new frontier models?	我听说过一些关于,你知道, 你需要一个FDA或FAA 对于新的前沿模型?
384	And I think that the problem with that is, one, you have to get regulators who are actually smart about what's going on, and most bureaucrats just know way less about this than the people who are actually building these products.	我认为,问题在于, 第一,你必须让监管者真正对事情的发生很聪明, 大多数官僚们都比那些真正在制造这些产品的人更不了解这些。
385	So you can't just create that solution out of thin air and hope that it's actually going to work.	所以,你不能仅仅用薄空气来创造这个解决方案,并希望它能真正发挥作用。
386	You have to be smart and deliberate about it.	须是聪明细思.
387	And one of the things I know the president's very worried about, I'm certainly very worried about, is you see a talk about risks, and I think that's good.	我知道总统非常担心的一件事, 我当然非常担心, 就是你看到的关于风险的谈话, 我觉得这很好。
388	You obviously want to have alignment in these models.	你显然想在这些模型中保持一致。
389	But that conversation about risks almost immediately translates to, here are a whole host of regulations that we should throw at the problem.	但是,这种关于风险的谈话几乎立即转化为, 这里有一大堆的条例,我们应该针对这个问题。
390	And I'm a strong believer that regulations can actually make us safer, and they can be consistent with innovation, but only if they're careful and only if they're deliberate.	我坚信,规章可以使我们更加安全,并且可以与创新保持一致,但必须小心谨慎,只有经过周密的考虑.
391	And I don't think anybody regulates well in the middle of a panic.	我想在恐慌中没有人能很好的调节
392	COVID should have taught us that.	COVID应该告诉我们这一点。
393	And if you think about that group that, if it's an FDA or other, if they're not from industry, they may not have the insights to actually guide things in the right way.	如果你想到那组人,如果是FDA或其他的, 如果他们不是来自工业, 他们可能没有洞察力来正确引导事物。
394	How do you find that objective group of people, if they're from industry, there's maybe some bias.	你怎么找到这个客观的群体, 如果他们来自工业, 也许有一些偏见。
395	If they're not from industry, they don't understand technology.	如果他们不是来自工业,他们不懂技术.
396	Yeah.	对
397	I guess what I think is, I'm a big believer in competition, and I'm a big believer in strong antitrust laws, because you're exactly right.	我猜我想,我对竞争很有信心,我对强大的反托拉斯法很有信心,因为你说得对.
398	Some people from industry are going to be biased.	一些来自工业的人将会有偏见。
399	Obviously, I think the nature of running a company is you're going to be biased towards your company.	显然,我认为经营一家公司的性质是你会偏向你的公司。
400	And if you're not, you're probably in the wrong business.	如果你不是,你可能搞错了
401	So how do you balance, obviously, the fact that the people who know the most about the industry are also the people with the strongest financial incentive to not maybe care about safety as much as profit or some other thing?	那么,显然,你如何平衡这样一个事实: 对这个行业最了解的人, 也是最有经济动机的人, 可能不会像利润或其他东西一样关心安全。
402	And I think the answer is competition, because you have a number of companies who actually know a lot about this industry, who know a lot about the technology.	我认为答案是竞争,因为你有很多公司真正了解这个行业,也了解这个技术。
403	But they don't have maybe the same financial incentives as the Frontier Labs.	但是他们可能没有和边疆实验室相同的财政奖励.
404	Let's take one obvious example.	让我们举一个明显的例子。
405	I mean, there's a lot of concern.	我的意思是,有很多的担心。
406	I think the most obvious negative use case of the Frontier models up to this point is the cyber capability.	我认为最明显的负面使用边疆模型在这一点上是网络能力。
407	We have seen some of these models.	我们看到其中一些模型。
408	By the way, they've been trained this way, but they have remarkable ability to enable hackers to hack into systems.	顺便说一句,他们受过这样的训练,但他们有惊人的能力让黑客侵入系统.
409	Okay, so the obvious answer to me is to say to all of the technology companies that might be subject to a model run amok in a cyber sense is to give them the tools to actually patch their code and protect themselves against cyber attack.	好吧,那么我显然的答案是, 对所有在网络意义上可能受到模拟运行的科技公司来说, 就是给它们一些工具, 来补上他们的代码, 保护自己免受网络攻击。
410	In other words, the best weapon against cyber offense is good cyber defense, and the companies that don't want to have their companies or their websites hacked into, those are the companies who are best situated to do this.	换句话说,打击网络犯罪的最佳武器是良好的网络防御,那些不想让自己的公司或网站被黑客入侵的公司,就是那些最适合这样做的公司.
411	So I think so long as we encourage healthy and robust competition, and so long as we remind companies that they actually have responsibility to build products that work and products that are safe, I think that goes a long way to fighting the battle.	所以我想只要我们鼓励健康而有力的竞争, 只要我们提醒公司,他们实际上有责任建造工作有效的产品和安全的产品, 我认为这对战斗有很长的帮助。
412	What I think would be a huge mistake is to give, for example, Section 230 protections to some of the new technology companies.	我认为,一个巨大的错误是,例如,为一些新技术公司提供230节的保护。
413	That actually shields them from liability rather than making them more responsible.	这实际上使他们免于责任,而不是使他们更负责任。
414	And I think it would be a huge mistake to allow cartel-like activity.	我认为允许类似卡特尔的活动是一个巨大的错误。
415	We don't want the four or five biggest model companies, and some of these guys, these companies, by the way, are run by very smart, earnest people, very good people.	我们不希望这四五个最大的模范公司, 而其中一些人,这些公司,顺便说一句, 是由非常聪明,真诚的人,非常优秀的人经营的。
416	I have nothing against these companies, but I want those companies to compete against one another not to join in a sort of unified cartel against the American consumer.	我对这些公司没有意见但我希望这些公司互相竞争而不是加入一个针对美国消费者的统一卡特尔
417	They protect themselves, but I think it would be bad for the American people.	他们保护自己,但我觉得这样对美国人民不利.
418	Yeah, how do you make space for the little guy in all this?	对,你怎么给这小家伙腾出空间?
419	Exactly, exactly.	没错,没错。
420	And I think, you know, I have different friends who are on different sides of the open source debate, but to me, you have to protect competition.	我认为,你知道,我有不同的朋友站在公开源码辩论的不同方面, 但对我来说,你必须保护竞争。
421	You have to make it possible for a young upstart to actually enter these industries, to compete in these industries.	你必须让年轻创业者能够真正进入这些产业, 在这些产业中竞争。
422	And this is where I think robust antitrust protections and also robust product liability protections, these things already exist.	我认为这里有强大的反托拉斯保护还有强大的产品责任保护这些东西已经存在了
423	And maybe, to be clear, maybe we find out that a year down the road or two years down the road, these existing regimes are inadequate to the challenges.	也许,为了明确起见,也许我们发现,一年或两年之后,这些现行制度不足以应付挑战。
424	But let's actually try what has worked in the past.	但让我们试试过去的工作
425	And if it doesn't work in the future, then build it out from there.	如果将来不起作用,那就从那里建造出来.
426	Let's not just throw a massive new regulatory regime against a problem that could make it worse.	我们不要仅仅针对一个可能使问题恶化的问题,推出一个大规模的新的管理制度.
427	Amazing.	厉害
428	Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on AI.	非常感谢你分享你对AI的看法
429	Let's switch gears real quick because there's another part of your life which has to do with fraud.	我们快点换档吧因为你生活中还有另一部分和诈骗有关
430	So I'd love an update because I was so excited when I heard about the task force that was set up.	所以我想了解最新消息,因为当我听到成立工作队的消息时,我很兴奋。
431	I got to meet with some of your team members early on and it was like, by God, there's really, you know, a bigger team thinking about a massive issue in our country.	我早些时候要见你的团队成员... ... ......
432	And I'd love for you to share with us some of the insights, findings, observations, surprises through that task force.	我希望你能和我们分享一些通过这个特别小组的见解、发现、观察和惊喜。
433	Well, obviously, you and Elon were doing amazing things at Doge.	很明显你和伊隆在Doge做了很棒的事
434	And what we wanted to make sure is that this effort to root fraud out of our government didn't just get abandoned because, you know, the Doge effort fundamentally had a short term sort of lifespan because as much as we might have loved it,	我们想要确定的是这场从政府中清除欺诈的努力并不仅仅被抛弃因为 Doge的努力本质上有短期的寿命因为我们可能很喜欢它
435	Elon was not going to stay in the federal government for the rest of his life.	伊隆一生不会留在联邦政府.
436	His shareholders would not have loved that.	他的股东不会喜欢的
437	So what we wanted to do is make sure the anti-fraud effort still had teeth and was still very much a focus of the administration.	所以我们想要做的就是确保反欺诈的努力仍然有牙齿,并且仍然是政府的重点。
438	The one thing I've learned about fighting fraud is how much it has to be an interagency effort.	我所学到的打击欺诈的一件事就是它必须是一个机构间的努力。
439	And so, you know, we find, for example, that, you know, you have an illegal immigrant who's committing SNAP fraud.	所以,你知道,我们发现, 比如,你知道, 你有一个非法移民谁在做SNAP欺诈。
440	So they're taking advantage of the food stamps program.	所以他们利用了粮票计划
441	You actually can't create proper enforcement mechanisms unless you have the Department of Justice coordinating with the Department of Homeland Security, coordinating with the Department of Agriculture because the Department of Agriculture administers thes	实际上,除非司法部与国土安全部协调,与农业部协调,因为由农业部管理这些方案,否则就无法建立适当的执法机制。
442	So what we've tried to do is just take a whole of government approach to it.	所以,我们试图做的是采取一个整体的政府方针。
443	And obviously, like, I'm empowered to do that because I'm the vice president of the United States.	很明显,我有权这么做因为我是美国副总统
444	And it's been amazing to see everybody work together.	看到大家合作真是令人惊奇
445	I know you spoke with Oz earlier today.	我知道你今天早些时候和奥兹谈过了
446	Dr. Oz is an amazing guy, incredible energy.	奥兹博士是一个惊人的人,令人难以置信的能量。
447	But some of the best fraud fighters have been people who work for Dr. Oz who saw, oh, wait a second, there's this part of the Medicaid program or part of the Medicare program that isn't actually giving health care to Americans who need it.	但一些最好的欺诈斗士是那些为Oz医生工作的人他们看到,哦,等一下, 医疗补助计划的一部分或医疗保险计划的一部分并没有真正为需要的美国人提供医疗保健。
448	It's actually giving a lot of money to fraudsters who aren't even providing the services they claim that they're providing.	它实际上给那些甚至不提供他们声称提供的服务的欺诈者很多钱.
449	Let's just cut that money off and actually save the American taxpayer a lot of money in the process.	让我们把这些钱切掉, 并实际上节省美国纳税人很多钱在这个过程中。
450	So it's been it's been very rewarding work.	因此,它一直以来都是非常有回报的工作.
451	I've had a lot of fun being vice president, but that's that's at the very top.	担任副总统我玩得很开心但这是最顶级的
452	And, you know, Joe, to connect this back a little bit to some of the stuff that you're working on and your team is working on the biggest challenge that we have in fighting fraud is that nobody has a like good, consistent, coherent and broadly applicable	Joe, 把这和一些你正在研究的东西联系起来, 你的团队正在研究我们打击欺诈的最大挑战, 即没有人有类似良好,连贯,连贯和广泛适用的方式来验证这些东西的资格。
453	And so the SNAP program, you apply for it in California, they won't even like check your identification.	所以,SNAP计划,你申请在加利福尼亚州,他们甚至不会喜欢检查你的身份。
454	Like if I go to the state of California, we've in fact had this conversation and I say, who is it that's on your welfare rules in California?	碞钩и
455	They can't even tell me the answer because they don't do the basic work of identifying whether the people receiving these benefits are eligible to receive those benefits.	他们甚至不能告诉我答案,因为他们没有做基本的工作,确定接受这些福利的人是否有资格获得这些福利.
456	Now, that sounds insane and crazy, but like hundreds of billions of dollars, maybe trillions of your tax dollars every single day go to places where we don't verify that the people receiving those benefits are actually eligible to receive them.	现在,这听起来疯狂和疯狂, 但像数千亿美元, 也许万亿你的税收美元每天去的地方我们没有证实接受这些福利的人实际上是有资格得到这些福利。
457	Where I see like this America Gov thing coming full circle.	我所看到的是美国政府的事情
458	And again, like I played around with the website a little bit.	就像我和网站玩过一样
459	It's amazing.	不可思议.
460	It is the exact opposite of healthcare.gov, which I'm very proud of.	这是完全相反的保健.gov, 我非常自豪。
461	But I'm sorry I said the F word to make that point, but hopefully the TV cameras won't penalize me.	但我很抱歉我说了F字来说明这一点但希望电视摄像机不会惩罚我
462	But here's the thing.	但问题是
463	If we could just have a smarter way of verifying identity and eligibility for these programs, we could save the American people a lot of money.	如果我们能用更聪明的方法验证身份和参加这些方案的资格, 我们可以节省美国人民很多钱。
464	And importantly, we can ensure that the people who are receiving these benefits actually deserve them.	重要的是,我们可以确保那些接受这些福利的人真正得到这些福利。
465	Because one of my big beliefs, Joe, on this is like the social welfare system in this country is a core part of the social contract.	因为我的一个大信念乔这个国家的社会福利制度是社会契约的核心
466	Like my family, I myself benefited from some of these programs.	像我的家人一样,我本人也从其中的一些方案中受益。
467	I'm now the vice president of the United States.	我现在是美国副总统.
468	I know a lot of people who get down on their luck, who need a little bit of help, you know, giving their kids access to a doctor or taking their kids to a dentist or need a little bit of help that month, you know, buying food for their families.	我认识很多人他们运气不好, 他们需要一点点的帮助, 你知道,让他们的孩子有机会看医生,或者带孩子看牙医或者需要一点点的帮助,
469	I want those programs to exist.	我希望那些程序存在。
470	And I think it's a cool thing about Americans that we're generous to one another.	我认为美国人是件很酷的事我们彼此慷慨解囊
471	We say when you're down on your luck, yes, of course, we want you to be finding a job.	我们说当你运气不好的时候当然我们希望你能找到工作
472	And yes, we want you to be trying to get back on your feet.	是的,我们希望你重新站起来。
473	And we know most of our fellow Americans will.	我们知道大部分美国人会这么做
474	But if you're down on your luck, your kid is not going to go hungry or not going to be able to treat an illness because they can't afford a doctor.	但如果你运气不好你的孩子不会饿着肚子或者因为买不起医生而不能治病
475	But that social trust, that generosity rests on a foundation where you write your check to the IRS and you know the IRS is going to be careful about where it goes.	但这种社会信任,这种慷慨感是基于一个基础, 你写你的支票给国税局你知道国税局会小心它去向。
476	That has not been true for decades in the United States of America.	几十年来,美利坚合众国的情况并非如此。
477	The president of the United States said, change it.	美国总统说,改变它。
478	Make sure we know where our money is going.	确保我们知道我们的钱去向。
479	And that's exactly what we're trying to do.	这正是我们想做的。
480	And I think you guys are going to help us.	我想你们会帮助我们
481	I can't wait to do it.	我等无上正法.
482	Ladies and gentlemen, let's hear it for vice president.	女士们,先生们,请听副总统的话
483	Awesome.	厉害
484	Thank you.	谢谢
485	It's great.	赞曰.
486	Beautiful.	美丽

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