实战练英文 | 偏见女主持人，戴有色眼镜专访马斯克：Tesl

实战练英文 | 偏见女主持人，戴有色眼镜专访马斯克：Tesla一蹶不振？南非让StarLink规避黑人特权法律？DOGE停止援助造成百万病患死亡？ | 卡塔尔经

发布于 2026-01-11 · 时长 41:57

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	So Bloomberg broke news today that the South African government is working around the rules	彭博社今天传出消息南非政府围绕规则行事
0:05	on black ownership in order to allow Stirlingkin, and that is being done on the eve of the visit	黑人所有权问题,以便允许Stirlingkin, 这项工作在访问前夕进行
0:10	that President Ramaphosa is going to make to the White House.	拉马福萨总统会去白宫
0:14	Do you recognize that as a conflict of interest?	你承认这是利益冲突吗?
0:17	No, of course not.	不,当然不是。
0:19	First of all, you should be questioning why are there racist laws in South Africa?	首先,你应该质疑为什么南非有种族主义法律?
0:22	That's the first problem.	这是第一个问题。
0:24	That's what you should be attacking.	这就是你应该攻击。
0:26	It's improper for there to be racist laws in South Africa.	南非有种族主义法律是不恰当的.
0:29	The whole idea with what Nelson Mandela, who was a great man, proposed was that all races	整个想法是纳尔逊·曼德拉, 他是一个伟大的人,

展开字幕全文（790 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	So Bloomberg broke news today that the South African government is working around the rules	彭博社今天传出消息南非政府围绕规则行事
2	on black ownership in order to allow Stirlingkin, and that is being done on the eve of the visit	黑人所有权问题,以便允许Stirlingkin, 这项工作在访问前夕进行
3	that President Ramaphosa is going to make to the White House.	拉马福萨总统会去白宫
4	Do you recognize that as a conflict of interest?	你承认这是利益冲突吗?
5	No, of course not.	不,当然不是。
6	First of all, you should be questioning why are there racist laws in South Africa?	首先,你应该质疑为什么南非有种族主义法律?
7	That's the first problem.	这是第一个问题。
8	That's what you should be attacking.	这就是你应该攻击。
9	It's improper for there to be racist laws in South Africa.	南非有种族主义法律是不恰当的.
10	The whole idea with what Nelson Mandela, who was a great man, proposed was that all races	整个想法是纳尔逊·曼德拉, 他是一个伟大的人,
11	should be on an equal footing in South Africa.	在南非应处于平等地位。
12	That's the right thing to do, not to replace one set of racist laws with another set of	这是正确的做法,而不是用另一套种族主义法律取代另一套
13	racist laws, which is utterly wrong and improper.	种族主义法律,这是完全错误和不适当的。
14	So that's the deal, that all races should be treated equally and there should be no	因此,这是交易, 所有种族应该受到平等对待, 没有
15	preference given to one or the other, whereas there are now 140 laws in South Africa that	给予一种或另一种偏好,而目前南非有140项法律
16	basically give strong preference if you're a black South African, and not otherwise.	基本上,如果你是一个黑人南非人, 而不是其他。
17	And so now I'm in the sort of situation where I was born in South Africa but cannot get	所以现在我的处境是,我出生在南非,但不能得到
18	a license to operate in Stirling because I'm not black.	在Stirling有营业执照因为我不是黑人
19	Does that seem right to you?	你觉得这样对吗?
20	It looks like that's about to change.	看起来要变了
21	I just asked you a question.	我只是问你一个问题
22	Please answer.	请回答。
23	Does that seem right to you?	你觉得这样对吗?
24	Well those rules were designed to bring about an era of more economic equality in South	这些规则是为了在南方建立一个经济更加平等的时代
25	Africa, and it looks like the government has found a way around those rules for you.	非洲,看起来政府已经为您找到了绕过那些规则的方法。
26	I asked you a question.	我问你一个问题。
27	This is your interview, everyone wants to hear from you.	这是你的采访,每个人都想听到你的声音。
28	I asked you a question, yes or no?	我问你一个问题,是还是不是?
29	Racist laws, yes or no?	种族主义法,是还是不是?
30	Not for me to answer.	不为我答.
31	I have got a question for you about your government work and the amount of savings.	我有一个问题要问你关于你的政府工作和储蓄的数额。
32	Why do you like racist laws?	你为什么喜欢种族主义法律?
33	欢迎来到论坛 Elon Musk 与彭博会的Michel Hussein谈话
34	Hello everyone, and Elon Musk, welcome to Qatar Economic Forum, how are you?	大家好,埃隆·穆斯克欢迎来到卡塔尔经济论坛,你好吗?
35	Thank you for having me, I'm fine, how are you?	谢谢你邀请我我很好你好吗?
36	Very well thank you, and very pleased to have you with us.	非常谢谢你,很高兴你和我们在一起。
37	You know, among those here in the audience in Doha are some you will know, people who	你知道,在多哈的观众中有一些你会知道的, 一些人谁
38	have backed you financially over the years.	多年来一直资助你
39	Since you last spoke here in 2022, a lot has changed in your life.	自从你上次在2022年发言以来你的生活发生了很多变化
40	You're not only running multiple companies, you were doing that then, but now you also	你不仅在经营多个公司,你当时也这么做, 现在你也这样做了
41	have a role in government.	在政府中发挥作用。
42	So first of all, I hope you won't mind if from time to time I have to move you from	所以,首先,我希望你不会介意如果我不时不得不移动你从
43	one topic to another because we have a lot to cover in the time we have.	一个话题又一个话题因为我们有很多事情要处理
44	That will be all right?	可以吗?
45	Yes of course.	当然
46	Well let's start then with exactly the fact that you now have this combination of being	那么,让我们开始确切的事实, 你现在有这个结合成为
47	a CEO and having a role as a government advisor.	首席执行官,并担任政府顾问。
48	Tell me about your week, how does it work, what's the split of your time?	说说你的周,如何工作,你的时间是多少?
49	Well I travel a lot, so I was in Silicon Valley yesterday morning, I was in L.A. yesterday	我经常旅行所以我昨天早上在硅谷昨天在洛杉矶
50	evening, I'm in Austin right now, I'll be in D.C. tomorrow, I'll be there, I have to	晚上,我现在在奥斯汀, 我明天会在华盛顿, 我会在那里,我必须
51	have a dinner with the President tomorrow night I believe, and then a whole bunch of	明晚和总统一起吃晚饭我相信然后一大堆
52	cabinet secretary meetings and then back to Silicon Valley on Thursday night.	内阁秘书开会,然后星期四晚上回到硅谷.
53	But I mean the balance of your time, is it, well clearly it's a lot, but is it still the	但是,我的意思是,平衡你的时间,是,很明显,这是很多,
54	case as you said a while ago that it's about one to two days a week on your government	正如你刚才所说你政府一周要花一到两天时间
55	work?	工作吗?
56	Yeah, that's correct.	没错
57	And what does that mean for your corporate life?	那对你的公司生活意味着什么?
58	Because if we start with Tesla, the company has suffered in recent months what you've	因为如果我们从特斯拉开始公司最近几个月来一直遭受着你的痛苦
59	called blowback.	叫做"反击"
60	So what is your plan for turning that around, the declining sales picture, and by what stage	那么,你有什么计划扭转这种情况, 下降的销售画面, 在哪个阶段
61	do you think you're going to be able to turn it around?	你觉得你能扭转它吗?
62	Oh it's already turned around.	哦,它已经转身了。
63	Give me some evidence for that, I've just been looking at the sales figures for Europe	给我一些证据,我一直在看欧洲的销售数字
64	in April, which show very significant declines in the big markets.	4月,表明大市场大幅下跌。
65	Europe is our weakest market, we're strong everywhere else, so our sales are doing well	欧洲是我们最弱的市场,我们到处都很强壮,所以我们的销售情况很好
66	at this point.	此时此刻
67	We don't anticipate any meaningful sales shortfall and obviously the stock market recognises	我们没有预料到任何有意义的销售短缺显然股市承认
68	that since we're now back over a trillion dollars in market cap, so clearly the market	既然现在我们重回了超过一万亿美元的市场上限, 所以很明显的市场
69	is aware of the situation, so it's already turned around.	已经知道情况了所以它已经转身了
70	But sales still down compared to this time last year?	但与去年这个时候相比,销量仍然下降?
71	In Europe.	在欧洲。
72	In Europe, okay.	在欧洲,好吧。
73	Yes, but that's true of all manufacturers, there's no exceptions.	是的,但所有制造商都是这样,没有例外.
74	Does that mean that you're not going to be able to...	这是否意味着你不能...
75	Does that mean...	这是否意味着...
76	The European market is quite weak.	欧洲市场相当薄弱。
77	But you would acknowledge, wouldn't you, that what you are facing, okay let's just take	但你会承认,是不是, 你面对的,好吧,让我们只是拿
78	it as Europe, what you are facing is a significant problem.	作为欧洲,你所面临的是一个重大问题。
79	Tesla was an incredibly aspirational brand, people identified with it, they saw it being	特斯拉是一个令人难以置信的愿望品牌, 人们认同它,他们看到它是
80	at the forefront of the climate crisis and now people are driving around with stickers	在气候危机的前沿现在人们正用贴纸开车
81	in their cars saying, I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy.	在他们车上说,我买这个之前,我们知道伊隆是疯了。
82	And there are also people who are buying it because Elon's crazy or however they may view	也有人买它因为伊隆疯了或者他们可能看到
83	it.	这个
84	So yes, we've lost some sales perhaps on the left, but we've gained them on the right.	是的,我们失去了一些销售也许在左边, 但我们得到了它们在右边。
85	The sales numbers at this point are strong and we see no problem with demand.	此时的销售数字很强,我们认为需求没有问题.
86	So what do you...	那你们...
87	I mean, you can just look at the stock price.	我是说,你可以看看股票价格
88	If you want the best insider information, the stock market analysts have that.	如果你想要最好的内幕信息, 股票市场分析师有这一点。
89	And our stock wouldn't be trading near all-time highs if things weren't in good shape.	如果情况不妙我们的股票不会在最高水平上交易
90	They're fine.	他们没事
91	Don't worry about it.	别着急
92	Okay.	摆
93	I was citing sales figures rather than share price.	我引用的是销售数字而不是股票价格。
94	Well, tell me then how committed you are to Tesla.	告诉我你对特斯拉有多忠心
95	Do you see yourself and are you committed to still being the chief executive of Tesla	你看见自己了吗? 你承诺继续做特斯拉的首席执行官
96	in five years' time?	五年后吗?
97	Yes.	对
98	No doubt about that at all?	毫无疑问吗?
99	Well, no, I might die.	不,我可能会死
100	Okay, short of that.	好吧,简言之。
101	Let me see if I'm dead.	让我看看我是否死了。
102	So there's a slight amount of time.	故有少时.
103	Does that mean that the value of your pay doesn't have any bearing on your decision?	这是否意味着你的工资价值与你的决定无关?
104	Well, that's not really a subject of discussion in this forum.	这不是这个论坛讨论的主题
105	I think, obviously, there should be a compensation for if something incredible is done, the compensation	我认为,很明显,应该有补偿如果做一些不可思议的事情, 补偿
106	should match that something incredible was done.	应该和不可思议的事一样
107	But I'm confident that whatever some activist posing as a judge in Delaware happens to do	但我相信,无论什么活动家在特拉华州假扮法官都碰巧这样做
108	will not affect the future compensation.	将不影响未来的赔偿。
109	This is the judge who twice struck down the $56 billion dollar pay package that was awarded	这名法官两次击落了 560亿美元工资计划
110	to you.	给你的。
111	I think the value on the basis on the current value of stock options.	我认为价值基于股票期权的现值。
112	Yeah.	对
113	Not a judge.	没有法官
114	The activist who is cosplaying a judge in a Halloween costume.	那个穿万圣节服装饰演法官的活跃分子
115	Okay, that's your characterization.	好吧,这就是你的特征。
116	I think the value on the current value of stock options, I think the actual justice	我觉得股票期权的现值是实际的公理
117	according to the law on the current value of stock options.	根据关于股票期权现值的法律。
118	I think the value of that pay package stands at about a hundred billion dollars.	我认为那套报酬的价值大约是1000亿美元。
119	Are you saying you are relaxed about the value of your future pay package?	你是说你对未来的薪酬计划的价值很放松?
120	Your decision to be committed to Tesla for the next five years, as long as you are still	你决定在未来5年里一直和特斯拉在一起
121	with us on this planet, is completely independent of pay?	与我们在这个星球上, 完全没有报酬?
122	No.	没有
123	It's not independent.	不独立.
124	So pay is a relevant factor then to your commitment to Tesla?	那么报酬是你们对特斯拉的承诺的一个相关因素?
125	A sufficient voting control such that I cannot be ousted by activist investors is what matters	足够多的投票控制以至于我无法被积极投资者赶走
126	to me.	对我来说。
127	And I've said this publicly many times.	我已经公开说过很多次了
128	But let's not have this whole thing be a discussion of my alleged pay.	但我们不要讨论我所谓的薪水
129	It's not a money thing.	这不是钱的事情。
130	It's a reasonable control thing over the future of the company, especially for building millions,	这是对公司未来的合理控制尤其是对于建设数百万人来说
131	potentially billions of humanoid robots.	可能是数十亿个人造机器人
132	I can't be sitting there and wondering to get tossed out for political reasons by activists.	我不能坐在那里,想着被激进分子出于政治原因扔出去。
133	That would be unacceptable.	这是不能接受的。
134	That's all that matters.	这就是最重要的。
135	Now, let's move on.	现在,让我们继续前进。
136	OK.	摆
137	Well, just one question before we move on to other companies, which is that I wonder	在进入其他公司之前,只有一个问题,我想
138	if some of what has happened to Tesla in the last few months, did you take it personally?	如果Tesla在过去几个月里发生了一些事情, 你是否亲自处理?
139	Yes.	对
140	And did it make you regret any of or think twice about your political endeavours?	让你后悔或三思你的政治努力吗?
141	Because it is...	因为...
142	I did what needed to be done.	我做了该做的事
143	The violent antibody reaction, and I'm not someone who's ever committed violence.	强烈的抗体反应,我也不是曾经有过暴力的人.
144	And yet, massive violence was committed against my companies.	然而,针对我公司的大规模暴力。
145	Massive violence was threatened against me.	大规模暴力威胁着我。
146	Who are these people?	这些人是谁?
147	Why would they do that?	他们为什么要这么做?
148	How wrong can they be?	他们怎么会错?
149	They're on the wrong side of history, and that's an evil thing to do.	他们站在历史错误的一面,这是邪恶的行为.
150	To go and damage some innocent person's car, to threaten to kill me.	去破坏一些无辜的人的车威胁要杀了我
151	What's wrong with these people?	这些人怎么了?
152	I've not harmed anyone.	我没有伤害任何人。
153	So something needs to be done about them.	所以需要对他们做点什么。
154	And a number of them are going to prison, and they deserve it.	他们中有些人会进监狱,他们是罪有应得。
155	Any more will.	任何更多的意志。
156	You're referring to the attacks on Tesla showrooms, but I think...	你是指对特斯拉展示室的袭击但我想...
157	Well, it's showrooms and burning down cars is unacceptable.	嗯,这是展示室和烧毁汽车是不可接受的。
158	Those people will go to prison, and the people that funded them and organised them	那些人会被关进监狱和资助他们的人组织他们
159	will also go to prison.	也会进监狱
160	Don't worry, we're coming for you.	别担心,我们来找你了
161	Wouldn't you acknowledge that some of the people who turned against Tesla in Europe	难道你不会承认一些人谁转身反对特斯拉在欧洲
162	were upset at your politics, and very few of them would have been violent in any way?	对你的政治不高兴很少有人会有任何暴力倾向?
163	They just objected to what they saw you say or do politically?	他们只是反对你说的话还是从政治上说?
164	Well, it's certainly fine to object to political things, but it's not fine to resort to violence	好吧,反对政治当然是好的但诉诸暴力是不好的
165	and hanging someone in effigy and death threats.	并绞死某人在精致和死亡威胁。
166	That's obviously not OK.	这显然不是很好。
167	You know, that's absurd.	你知道,这是荒谬的。
168	That is in no way justifiable at all, in any way, shape or form.	这在任何方面、形式或形式上都是毫无道理的。
169	And some of the legacy media nonetheless have sought to justify it,	但有些传承媒体却试图为其辩护,
170	which is unconscionable.	这是不合理的。
171	Shame on them.	惭愧其人.
172	Let's talk about your other companies then and other business areas, SpaceX.	让我们谈谈你的其他公司以及其他商业领域,SpaceX。
173	I saw that you said in a speech at the West Point Military Academy recently	我看见你在西点军校的演讲中说
174	that the future of warfare is AI and drones.	战争的未来是AI和无人机
175	And obviously, defence is an increasingly booming sector	很明显,国防是一个越来越繁荣的部门
176	with the state of the world at the moment.	与目前世界状况.
177	Do you see SpaceX moving into weaponised drones?	你看到SpaceX进入武器化无人机了吗?
178	You certainly ask interesting questions that are impossible to answer.	你确实问了一些无法回答的有趣问题。
179	So, SpaceX is the space launch leader.	因此,SpaceX是太空发射的领导者.
180	So, SpaceX doesn't do drones.	因此,SpaceX不做无人机.
181	SpaceX builds rockets, satellites and internet terminals.	SpaceX建造火箭,卫星和互联网终端.
182	So, SpaceX has a very dominant position in space launch.	因此,SpaceX在太空发射中占有非常主导的地位.
183	So, of the mass launch to orbit this year, SpaceX will probably do 90 per cent.	因此,在今年向轨道的大规模发射中,SpaceX很可能会完成90%.
184	China will do half of the remaining amount, so 5 per cent.	中国将完成剩余数额的一半,即5%。
185	And the rest of the world, including the rest of the US, will do about 5 per cent.	而世界其他地区,包括美国其他地区,将做5%左右的工作.
186	So, SpaceX will do about 10 times as much as the rest of the world combined	所以,SpaceX将做大约十倍于世界其他地方加起来
187	or 20 times as much as China, which is...	或二十倍于中国,即.
188	And China is doing actually a very impressive job.	而中国实际上正在做一个非常令人印象深刻的工作。
189	The reason for this is that we are putting into orbit	原因是我们正准备进入轨道
190	the largest satellite constellation the world has ever seen by far.	有史以来最大的卫星星座
191	So, I think at this point, about maybe approaching 80 per cent of all active satellites	因此,我认为,在这个时候, 可能接近80% 所有运行中的卫星
192	在轨道上是SpaceX。
193	And they're providing high bandwidth global connectivity throughout the world.	它们提供高带宽的全球连接
194	In fact, this connection is on the SpaceX connection.	事实上,这个连接在SpaceX连接上.
195	So, I think this is a very good thing because it means that we can provide low cost,	所以,我认为这是一个非常好的事情,因为它意味着我们可以提供低成本,
196	high bandwidth internet to parts of the world that don't have it	高带宽的互联网到世界上没有它的地方
197	or it's very expensive.	或者很贵
198	And I think the single biggest thing you can do to lift people out of poverty	我认为你能够做的最大的一件事就是帮助人们摆脱贫困
199	and help them is giving them an internet connection.	并帮助他们提供网络连接。
200	Because once you have the internet connection,	因为一旦你连上互联网
201	you can learn anything for free on the internet.	你可以在互联网上免费学习任何东西。
202	And you can also sell your goods and services to the global market.	你也可以向全球市场出售你的商品和服务。
203	And once you have knowledge by the internet and the ability to engage in commerce,	一旦你掌握了互联网上的知识和从事商业的能力
204	this is going to greatly improve quality of life for people throughout the world.	这将大大提高全世界人民的生活质量。
205	And it has.	它已经。
206	And I'd just like to thank anyone in the audience who may have been helpful	我只想感谢观众中任何有帮助的人
207	with Starlink and getting it approved in their country.	和Starlink一起在他们国家获得批准
208	And I think it's doing a lot of good on the countries that have approved it,	我认为这对批准它的国家有好处,
209	which is, I think, at this point, 130 countries are very happy with it.	我认为,目前130个国家对此非常满意。
210	I don't currently anticipate SpaceX getting into the weapons business.	我目前不认为SpaceX会涉足武器行业
211	That's certainly not an aspiration.	这绝对不是愿望
212	We're frequently asked to do weapons programs, but we have thus far declined.	我们经常被要求做武器计划, 但我们到目前为止已经拒绝了。
213	Do you envisage SpaceX or, indeed, Starlink as a separate entity	您是否设想 SpaceX 或事实上,星际链接作为一个单独的实体
214	publicly listing in the near future or at all?	近期公开上市还是完全公开上市?
215	It's possible that Starlink may go public at some point in the future.	未来某个时候Starlink可能会公开.
216	And what would be the time frame?	时间框架是什么?
217	What kind of time frame you consider?	你考虑什么时间范围?
218	I'm in no rush.	我不着急。
219	I'm in no rush to go public.	我不急于公开
220	Public is, I guess, a way to potentially make more money,	公众是可能赚更多钱的一种方式
221	but at the expense of a lot of public company overhead	但牺牲了很多公共公司的管理费
222	and inevitably a whole bunch of lawsuits, which are very annoying.	并不可避免地一连串的诉讼, 非常烦人。
223	So really, something needs to be done about the shareholder derivative lawsuits	所以,真的,需要做一些事情关于股东衍生诉讼
224	in the US, because it allows plaintiff's law firms who don't represent	在美国,因为它允许原告的律师事务所不代表
225	the shareholders to pretend that they represent the shareholders	股东假装他们代表股东
226	by getting a puppet plaintiff with a few shares	通过获得一个傀儡原告与几股股份
227	to initiate a massive lawsuit against the company.	对公司提起大规模诉讼
228	And the irony being that, extreme irony, that even if the class they	讽刺的是,极端的讽刺, 即使阶级,他们
229	purport to represent were to vote that they don't want the lawsuit,	声称代表投票他们不希望诉讼,
230	the lawsuit would still continue.	诉讼会继续下去
231	So how can it be a class action representing a class	怎么会是集体诉讼呢?
232	if the class vote against it?	如果阶级投票反对呢?
233	And that's the bizarre situation we've got in the US.	这就是我们在美国的奇怪情况。
234	It's a dire need of reform.	迫切需要改革.
235	As anyone who's run a public company has experienced this,	任何经营公共公司的人都经历过这个
236	it's an absurd situation that needs to change.	这是一个荒谬的情况,需要改变。
237	Well, do you think Donald Trump might change it?	你觉得唐纳德·特朗普会改变吗
238	You've certainly got his ear.	你当然有他的耳朵。
239	I imagine that you've put this to him.	我想这是你给他的
240	你在Starlink IPO之前想改变吗?
241	Well, it would need a law to be passed.	这需要通过法律
242	The trouble being that you'd need 60 Senate votes,	麻烦是你需要60张参议院选票
243	and the Democrats will vote against it.	民主党人会投票反对
244	The plaintiff's bar is, I believe, the second largest contributor	我想原告的酒吧是第二大贡献者
245	to the Democratic Party.	给民主党的
246	That's the issue.	这就是问题所在。
247	At the state level, this can be solved.	在州一级,这一点是可以解决的.
248	And I should say, Texas recently passed a law which, at least	得克萨斯州最近通过了一项法律至少
249	at the state level, made lawsuits much more reasonable,	在州一级, 提出更合理的诉讼,
250	because you have to get at least one in 33 shareholders	因为33个股东中至少要有一个
251	to agree that they are part of a class of shareholders, 3%.	同意他们属于一个股东类别,3%。
252	This will really help with a frivolous lawsuit.	这对轻率的诉讼很有帮助
253	Let's talk about AI, which is in so many of your businesses	让我们来谈谈AI,这是在这么多在你的生意
254	and in all our worlds in different ways.	和我们所有的世界不同的方式。
255	It's one of the big changes, the development of generative AI,	这是大变化之一, 基因AI的发展,
256	since you last spoke to this forum three years ago.	自从你三年前在本论坛发言以来
257	You're in this space, of course, with GroK,	你在这个空间,当然,与GroK,
258	which almost everyone will know.	几乎每个人都会知道
259	You co-founded OpenAI and then left.	你共同创建了OpenAI,然后离开了。
260	And you've obviously got a legal battle	你显然有一场法律斗争
261	with OpenAI and Sam Altman.	与OpenAI和萨姆·阿尔特曼.
262	I wonder if you could say something	不知道你能不能说点什么
263	about the status of that.	关于现状。
264	Because you were together in Saudi Arabia	因为你们在沙特阿拉伯在一起
265	with the president last week, with Sam Altman.	上周和总统和萨姆·阿尔特曼
266	In the same place at the same time.	同一时处.
267	I was with the president, and then in the neighborhood.	我和总统在一起,然后在附近
268	OK, so does that mean you are pushing ahead	好吧,这是否意味着你正在向前推进
269	对OpenAI的诉讼?
270	Yes.	对
271	So I came up with the name OpenAI as an open source	所以我想出了OpenAI这个名字作为开源
272	and as a nonprofit.	作为非营利组织。
273	And I funded OpenAI for the first roughly $50 million.	我为OpenAI 提供了5千万美元的资金
274	And it was intended to be a nonprofit open source company.	本来打算成为一家非营利的开源公司.
275	And now they're trying to change that	现在,他们试图改变
276	for their own financial benefit into a for-profit company	给自己带来经济利益的营利性公司
277	that is closed source.	关闭源。
278	So this would be like, let's say you funded a nonprofit	所以这就像,让我们假设你资助了一个非营利
279	to help preserve the Amazon rainforest.	帮助保护亚马逊雨林。
280	But instead of doing that, they became a lumber company,	但是,他们不是这样做,而是成为一个木材公司,
281	dropped down the forest and sold the wood.	掉下森林,卖掉木头
282	You'd be like, wait a second, that's not what I funded.	你会喜欢,等一下, 这不是我资助。
283	这是OpenAI。
284	They've made some changes to their corporate structure,	他们改变了公司结构
285	though, haven't they, since,	但是,他们没有,因为,
286	in recognition of what you've said?	以表彰你说的话?
287	No, that's just what they told the media.	不,这就是他们告诉媒体的。
288	OK.	摆
289	Part, they have partly walked back their plan	部分,他们已经走回他们的计划
290	to restructure the business.	重组企业。
291	I guess that's made no difference to how you feel about it.	我想这跟你的感受没什么区别
292	So you're determined to see them in court?	所以你决心在法庭上见他们?
293	Of course.	当然
294	Well, that's certainly going to be one to watch.	那当然是值得注意的
295	I also wanted to ask you about AI and regulation,	我还想问你关于AI和监管,
296	because when you were here last talking to John Mickelthwaite,	因为你上次和约翰·米克尔斯韦特谈话时
297	you had some pretty strong words about the risk that AI poses.	你对人工智能带来的风险有很强的口吻
298	And you said that you really felt what the US was missing	你说你真正感受到了美国所缺少的
299	was a federal AI regulator,	曾经是联邦AI监管者,
300	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}那东西的底线
301	of the Food and Drug Administration	食品和药物管理局署长
302	or the Federal Aviation Administration.	或联邦航空管理局。
303	Now, you're clearly now in a zone	瞷瞷睲贰
304	where you're more on the cutting regulation side	在那里,你更多在切割调节方面
305	than wanting new regulators.	比想要新的监管者。
306	So has your view changed on the need for an AI regulator?	那么,你的看法有没有改变是否需要AI监管?
307	Well, it's not that I don't think there should be regulators.	这不是说我不认为应该有监管者。
308	You can think of regulators	你可以想到监管者
309	like referees on the field in sports.	就像体育界的裁判
310	There should be some number of referees,	应该有一些裁判员,
311	but you shouldn't have so many referees	但你不应该有这么多裁判
312	that you can't kick the ball without hitting one.	你踢球不能不击球。
313	So in most fields in the US,	所以在美国大多数地区
314	the regulatory burden has grown over time	监管负担随着时间推移而增加
315	to the point where it's like having more referees	更像有更多裁判
316	than players on the field.	比球员在球场。
317	And this is a natural consequence	这是自然的结果
318	of an extended period of prosperity.	将永居其中。
319	It's very important to appreciate this.	欣赏这一点是非常重要的.
320	This has happened throughout history.	这在历史上一直发生。
321	When you have an extended period of prosperity	当你们获得长寿的时候,
322	with no existential war,	没有生存战争,
323	there's no cleansing function	没有清理功能
324	for unnecessary laws and regulations.	对于不必要的法律法规。
325	So what happens is that every year,	所以每年发生的事
326	more laws and more regulations are passed	通过了更多的法律和规章
327	because legislators are gonna legislate,	因为立法者会立法,
328	regulators are gonna regulate.	监管者会监管的
329	And you will get the steady pile	你会得到稳定堆
330	of more and more laws and regulations over time	越来越多的法律法规
331	until everything is illegal.	直到一切非法为止
332	And let me give you an example of a truly absurd situation.	让我举一个例子来说明一个真正荒谬的情况。
333	Under the Biden administration,	在拜登执政时期,
334	SpaceX was sued for not hiring asylum seekers in the US.	SpaceX因没有在美国雇用寻求庇护者而被起诉。
335	Now, the problem is it's actually illegal for SpaceX	问题是SpaceX实际上是非法的
336	under ITAR, International Traffic and Arms Regulations,	《国际贩运和军火管制条例》
337	to hire anyone who is not a permanent resident	雇佣非永久居民的人
338	of the United States because the premise being	美国,因为其前提
339	that they will take advanced rocket technology	他们将采用先进的火箭技术
340	and return to their home country	返回祖国
341	if they're not a permanent resident.	如果他们不是永久居民的话
342	So we're simultaneously in a situation	所以,我们同时处于一种情况
343	where it is illegal to hire asylum seekers	雇用寻求庇护者是非法的;
344	and is also illegal to hire asylum seekers.	并且雇用寻求庇护者也是非法的。
345	And the Biden's Department of Justice	还有拜登的司法部
346	chose to prosecute us despite both paths being illegal.	尽管这两条道路都是非法的,但还是选择起诉我们。
347	Downed if you do, downed if you don't.	如果你有的话,就被打倒,如果你没有。
348	But my question was specifically about a regulator for AI,	但我的问题是关于AI的监管者,
349	which you said three years ago was needed	三年前你说需要的
350	and you said we need to be proactive	而你说我们需要主动
351	on the regulation of AI rather than reactive.	有关大赦国际的规定,而不是被动的。
352	Have you changed your mind on that?	你改变主意了吗?
353	No, of course not.	不,当然不是。
354	What I'm saying is that there should be some referees	我想说的是应该有一些裁判
355	on the field, a few referees,	几位裁判,
356	but you shouldn't have a field jam-packed with referees	但你不应该有野外果酱包装裁判员
357	such that you could not kick a ball in any direction	以至于你无法向任何方向踢球
358	without hitting one.	不打一个。
359	So the fields that have been around for a long time,	所以,那些田地已经周围很长一段时间,
360	such as automotive, aerospace,	例如汽车、航空航天、
361	the sort of food and drug industries are over-regulated,	食品和毒品行业监管过严,
362	but the new fields like artificial intelligence	但像人工智能这样的新领域
363	are under-regulated.	监管不力。
364	In fact, there is no regulator at all.	事实上,根本就没有监管者。
365	So there should be, do you still think that?	所以应该,你还这么认为吗?
366	Yes, I'm simply saying,	是的,我只是说,
367	which I think is just basic common sense,	我认为这只是基本常识,
368	that you want to have at least,	你至少想要一个,
369	you want to have a few referees in the field.	您想要一些裁判员到场。
370	You don't want to have an army of referees,	你不想有一支裁判员队伍,
371	but you want to have a few referees on any given field,	但是,你想有一些裁判在任何特定的领域,
372	in any given sport or any given arena, industrial arena,	在任何特定的运动或任何特定的竞技场,工业领域,
373	to ensure help that public safety is taken care of.	确保公共安全得到保障。
374	But you don't want to have,	但你不想拥有
375	so there's a proper number of referees.	所以有相当数量的裁判员
376	Like I said, it's actually very easy to visualize this	就像我说的,其实很容易想象
377	when compared to sports.	与运动相比
378	If the whole field is packed with referees,	如果整个球场都有裁判员
379	that would look absurd.	这看起来太荒谬了
380	But if there were no referees at all,	但如果根本没有裁判
381	your game's not gonna be as good.	你的游戏不会那么好
382	Okay, so let's then talk about your new world,	好吧,让我们谈谈你的新世界,
383	your role advising government.	你的角色为政府提供建议
384	You are in this unique and unprecedented position	你身处这个前所未有的独特位置
385	of having billions of dollars worth of contracts	价值数十亿美元的合同
386	with the federal government yourself,	与联邦政府自己,
387	大部分通过SpaceX,
388	and also now an insider's knowledge of it because of Doge.	并且现在也因为多吉而有内行对此的了解.
389	Can you see that there is a conflict of interest	你能看到有利益冲突吗?
390	or a potential conflict of interest in broad terms	或广义上的潜在利益冲突
391	just through that very fact?	只是通过这个事实?
392	I don't think so, actually.	其实我不这么认为。
393	There have been many advisors throughout history	历史上有很多顾问
394	and the US government and others	美国政府和其他人
395	who have had economic interests,	他们是有经济利益的,
396	and I am simply an advisor.	我只是个顾问
397	I don't have formal power, and that's it.	我没有正式的权力,就是这样。
398	A president can choose to accept my advice or not,	总统可以选择接受我的建议
399	and that's how it goes.	就是这样
400	If there's a single contract	如果有一个合同
401	that any of my companies have received	我的公司都收到过
402	that people think is somehow not,	人们认为不知何故,
403	was awarded improperly,	裁决不当,
404	it would immediately be front page news, to say the least.	至少可以说,这将成为头版新闻。
405	And if I hadn't mentioned it,	如果我没有提起它,
406	certainly my competitors would.	当然,我的竞争者会。
407	So if you're not seeing that,	所以,如果你没有看到这一点,
408	then clearly there's not a conflict of interest.	那显然没有利益冲突
409	There's another way, though, to look at it,	还有一种方法,看看它,
410	that, for example, you have many competitors,	比如说,你有很多竞争对手
411	whether it's companies like Boeing	不管是波音这样的公司
412	or companies who would like to do more	或愿意做更多工作的公司
413	of the kind of work you do for NASA,	那种你为美国宇航局做的工作,
414	Blue Origin, Rocket Lab,	蓝源,火箭实验室,
415	and because Doge is in every federal government department,	因为Doge在联邦政府每个部门
416	you or people who work for Doge	你或为Doge工作的人
417	and you are the driving force behind it	你是背后的驱动力
418	have an insight into those companies' affairs	了解这些公司的事务
419	and those companies' relationships	和这些公司的关系
420	with the federal government.	与联邦政府。
421	No, all we do is we review the organization	不,我们所做的就是审查组织
422	to see if the organization has departments	看看该组织是否有部门
423	that are no longer relevant.	不再相关。
424	And then are the contracts that are being awarded	然后是被授予的合同
425	good value for money?	钱值多少?
426	In fact, frankly, the bar is not particularly high.	事实上,坦率地说,酒吧并不特别高。
427	Is there any value for money in a contract?	合同中是否有金钱价值?
428	And if there isn't,	如果没有
429	then we make recommendations to the secretary.	然后我们向秘书提出建议。
430	The secretary can then choose	秘书可以选择
431	to take those actions or not take those actions.	是否采取这些行动。
432	And that's it.	且道.
433	And then any action that is as a function of Doge	然后任何作为Doge功能的动作
434	is posted to the Doge website	贴在Doge网站上
435	和Doge.gov或Doge在X平台上的手柄。
436	So it's complete transparency.	所以这是完全透明。
437	And I've not seen any case where,	我从未见过这样的情况
438	to the best of my knowledge,	据我所知,
439	there's even been an accusation of conflict	甚至有人指控有冲突
440	because it is completely and utterly transparent.	因为它是完全和完全透明的。
441	That's it.	就这样
442	And what about the international dimension?	那国际层面呢?
443	现在,让我们想想Starlink。
444	Starlink is obviously a very, very good internet service.	星际链接显然是一个非常好的互联网服务。
445	It's sought after all over the world.	随世间而求之.
446	It's critical to the front line in Ukraine.	这对乌克兰的前线至关重要.
447	It has also had more contracts coming its way	也有很多合同要签
448	and there is some evidence	并有一些证据
449	that companies are allowing access to it	公司允许使用
450	because they want to be close to the Trump administration	因为他们想接近特朗普政府
451	and send the right signal.	并发出正确的信号。
452	So Bloomberg broke news today	彭博今天有消息说
453	that the South African government is working around	南非政府正围绕
454	the rules on black ownership in order to allow Starlink in.	为了让Starlink进入黑人所有权的规则
455	And that is being done on the eve of the visit	而在访问前夕
456	the President Ramaphosa is going to make to the White House.	拉马福萨总统要到白宫
457	Do you recognize that as a conflict of interest?	你承认这是利益冲突吗?
458	No, of course not.	不,当然不是。
459	First of all, you should be questioning	首先,你应该问
460	why are there racist laws in South Africa?	南非为何有种族主义法律?
461	That's the first problem.	这是第一个问题。
462	That's what you should be attacking.	这就是你应该攻击。
463	It's improper for there to be racist laws in South Africa.	南非有种族主义法律是不恰当的.
464	The whole idea with what Nelson Mandela,	纳尔逊·曼德拉的想法
465	who was a great man, proposed	他是一个伟大的人,被提议
466	was that all races should be on an equal footing	是所有种族应该平等
467	in South Africa.	南非
468	That's the right thing to do.	即是正觉.
469	Not to replace one set of racist laws	不取代一套种族主义法律
470	with another set of racist laws,	与另一套种族主义法律,
471	which is utterly wrong and improper.	这是完全错误和不恰当的。
472	So that's the deal.	这么说吧
473	That all races should be treated equally	所有种族都应该一视同仁
474	and there should be no preference given to one or the other.	不应优先考虑其中之一。
475	Whereas there are now 140 laws in South Africa	南非现有140项法律
476	that basically give strong preference	基本上给予强烈的偏好
477	to if you're black South African and not otherwise.	如果你是南非黑人而不是别的人
478	And so now I'm in this absurd situation	所以现在我陷入了荒谬的境地
479	where I was born in South Africa	我出生于南非
480	but can't get a license to operate in Starlink	但无法在星际链接获得运营许可证
481	because I'm not black.	因为我不是黑人
482	Well, it looks like that's about to change.	嗯,它看起来像即将改变。
483	I just asked you a question.	我只是问你一个问题
484	Please answer.	请回答。
485	Does that seem right to you?	你觉得这样对吗?
486	Well, those rules were designed to bring,	这些规则是为了...
487	those rules were designed to bring about an era	这些规则是为了带来一个时代
488	of more economic equality in South Africa.	南非经济更加平等。
489	And it looks like the government has found a way	看来政府找到了办法
490	around those rules for you.	绕着你的规矩
491	I asked you a question.	我问你一个问题。
492	This is your interview.	这是你的采访。
493	Everyone wants to hear from you.	每个人都想听到你的声音
494	I asked you a question.	我问你一个问题。
495	Yes or no?	是还是不是?
496	Racist laws, yes or no?	种族主义法,是还是不是?
497	Not for me to answer.	不为我答.
498	I have got a question for you about your government work	我有个问题要问你关于你的政府工作
499	and the amount of savings.	和节省的金额。
500	Why do you like racist laws?	你为什么喜欢种族主义法律?
501	This is not for me to answer.	这不是我的回答。
502	Come on.	来吧。
503	Now you wouldn't be trying to dodge a question	现在你不会想回避一个问题
504	that is difficult for you to answer.	你很难回答
505	No, you answer mine.	不,你回答我的问题。
506	I think if you,	我认为如果你,
507	I'm sure you can have that conversation directly	我敢肯定,你可以有对话直接
508	with the South African government if you want to.	与南非政府如果你想。
509	I want to ask you about the total.	我想问你一下总数
510	Look, I can't believe it.	我简直不敢相信
511	That's not good.	这可不好
512	I want to ask you about the total amount.	我想问你总金额
513	Why do you like racist laws?	你为什么喜欢种族主义法律?
514	I want to ask you about the total amount	我想问你总金额
515	that you're planning to save through Doge's work.	你计划通过Doge的工作来保存
516	Before the election,	在选举前,
517	you said it was going to be at least two trillion.	你说至少要两万亿
518	The number currently on doge.gov is $170 billion.	目前doge.gov上的数字为1700亿美元.
519	That's a big change.	变化甚大.
520	What happened to the two trillion?	两万亿又怎么了?
521	Would you expect it to happen immediately?	你会期望它立即发生吗?
522	Well, is it going to happen	那么,这是要发生
523	because Doge is supposed to run until next July?	因为Doge要跑到明年七月?
524	I mean, your question is absurd in its fundamental premise.	我的意思是,你的问题是荒谬的因为它的基本前提。
525	Are you assuming that within a few months,	你猜几个月后
526	there's an instant two trillion saved?	有两万亿的瞬间拯救?
527	No, I'm not at all.	不,我没有。
528	I'm just asking you, is that still your aim then?	我只是问你,你的目标还在吗?
529	Is it still your aim to get to two trillion?	你的目标还是要达到两万亿吗?
530	Have we not made good progress given the amount of time?	时间不够,我们没有取得良好进展吗?
531	That's exactly what I'm asking.	这正是我问的。
532	So is it still your aim to go from 170 billion to two trillion?	那么,你的目标仍然是从1700亿到2万亿?
533	The ability of Doge to operate	Doge的操作能力
534	is a function of whether the government,	这是政府是否
535	and this includes the Congress,	这包括国会,
536	is willing to take our advice.	愿意接受我们的建议
537	We're not the dictators of the government.	我们不是政府的独裁者.
538	We are the advisors.	我们是顾问
539	And so we can advise,	所以我们可以建议
540	and the progress we've made thus far, I think, is incredible.	我认为,我们迄今取得的进展令人难以置信。
541	The Doge team has done incredible work.	Doge团队完成了令人难以置信的工作.
542	But the magnitude of the savings	但积蓄之大
543	is proportionate to the support we get from Congress	我们从国会得到的支持是相称的
544	and from the executive branch of the government in general.	和一般政府行政部门。
545	So we're not the dictators, we are the advisors.	所以我们不是独裁者我们是顾问
546	But thus far, four advisors with the Doge team,	但到目前为止多吉团队的四名顾问
547	to their credit, has made incredible progress.	他们的功劳, 已经取得了令人难以置信的进展。
548	You've talked about $4 billion a day being saved,	你说过每天有40亿美元被拯救
549	but that won't get,	但不会得到,
550	which is, and I think everyone can agree,	这是,我认为每个人都可以同意,
551	that combating waste and inefficiency in government	防止浪费和政府效率低下
552	is a very good thing.	这是件好事
553	But if you add that up,	但是,如果你加起来,
554	it's not gonna get to two trillion	不到两万亿
555	over the lifetime of Doge.	在整个多吉的一生中
556	I'm sorry?	你说什么?
557	The four billion a day,	一天四十亿
558	if Doge is gonna run till next July,	如果道格要跑到明年七月
559	is not going to get you to two trillion dollars.	无法让你达到两万亿美元。
560	But you still say it's your aim,	但你还是说这是你的目标
561	so we'll take that as read.	所以,我们把它当作读。
562	There's what Doge,	有个道格
563	I mean, I feel you're somewhat trapped	我是说,我觉得你有点被困住了
564	in the NPC dialogue tree of a traditional journalist.	在NPC对话树上,一位传统记者。
565	So it's difficult when I'm conversing with someone	所以,这很难当我与某人交谈
566	who's trapped in the dialogue tree	被困在对话框树上的
567	of a conventional journalist,	一个传统的记者,
568	because it's like talking to a computer.	因为这就像对电脑说话。
569	So Doge is an advisory group.	所以道格是一个顾问小组。
570	We are doing the best we can as an advisory group.	我们正在作为一个咨询小组尽最大努力。
571	The progress made thus far as an advisory group	咨询小组迄今取得的进展
572	is excellent.	不错
573	I don't think any advisory group has done better	我觉得没有任何顾问团做得更好
574	in the history of advisory groups of the government.	在政府咨询小组的历史中。
575	Now, we do not make the laws,	现在,我们没有制定法律,
576	nor do we control the judiciary,	我们也不控制司法,
577	nor do we control the executive branch.	我们也不控制行政部门。
578	We are simply advisors.	我们只是顾问
579	In that context, we are doing very well.	在这方面,我们做得非常好。
580	Beyond that, we cannot take action beyond that,	除此之外,我们不能再采取行动,
581	because we are not some sort of imperial dictator	因为我们不是帝国独裁者
582	of the government.	总统阁下
583	There are three branches of government	政府有三个部门
584	that are to some degree opposed	在某种程度上反对
585	to that level of cost savings.	以达到节省成本的水平。
586	But nonetheless, let's not criticize	不过我们不要批评
587	whether there's four trillion,	是否有四万亿,
588	and instead look at the fact	而不是看看事实
589	that 160 billion has been saved,	拯救了1600亿
590	and more will be saved too.	还会有更多人被拯救
591	And as I said, I think everyone can agree	就像我说的,我想每个人都可以同意
592	that cutting waste and indeed fraud	减少浪费和欺诈
593	in any government and being responsible	在任何政府中和负有责任
594	with taxpayers' money is a very good thing.	纳税人的钱是件好事
595	So I can see that you're proud of that work.	我看得出来你为那份工作感到骄傲
596	I do want to ask you about USAID	我想问你关于美援署的事
597	and the comments that Bill Gates made the other day,	以及比尔·盖茨那天发表的评论
598	which I know that you called him.	我知道你打电话给他。
599	Yeah, he's a good liar.	是的,他是个好骗子。
600	I know, you've said that already.	我知道你已经说过了
601	I wondered.	我想问。
602	Also, who does Bill Gates think he is	还有,比尔·盖茨认为他是谁
603	to make comments about the welfare of children	对儿童福利发表意见;
604	given that he is equivalent to Jeffrey Epstein?	鉴于他相当于杰弗里·爱泼斯坦?
605	Okay, well, he said he regrets those,	好吧他说他后悔了
606	and he spent a lot of his own money	他花了很多钱
607	on philanthropy around the world over the years.	这些年来,全世界都在慈善事业上
608	My question to you is,	我的问题是,
609	have you looked at the data to check	您是否查看了数据以检查
610	if he might be right that the cuts to USAID	如果他是对的削减美援署
611	might cost millions of lives?	可能会夺走数百万人的生命?
612	Yes, I'd like him to show us any evidence whatsoever	是的,我想他给我们看任何证据
613	that that is true or it's false.	这是真的,还是是假的。
614	What we found with USAID cuts,	我们发现了美援署的削减,
615	and by the way, they have an open cut,	顺便说一句,他们有一个公开的切口,
616	the parts of USAID that were found to be	美援署发现的
617	even slightly useful were transferred	甚至稍有用处
618	to the State Department.	致国务院.
619	So they've not been deleted.	故未删.
620	They've certainly been transferred to the State Department.	他们肯定已经转到国务院了
621	But many times over with USAID and other organizations,	但多次与美援署和其他组织,
622	when they said, oh, well, this is going to help	当他们说,哦,好吧, 这将会帮助
623	children or it's going to help some	孩子们,或者它会帮助一些
624	disease eradication or something like that.	消灭疾病或类似的东西。
625	And then when we ask for any evidence whatsoever,	然后当我们要求任何证据时
626	I say, well, please connect us with this group of children	我说,请把我们和这群孩子联系起来
627	so we can talk to them and understand more about their issue.	这样我们就可以和他们谈谈,更多地了解他们的问题。
628	We get nothing.	我们一无所获
629	Would they even try to come up with a show often,	他们会经常想出一个节目吗?
630	meaning like, it's sort of like,	意思是,它有点像,
631	well, can we at least see a few kids?	我们至少可以看看几个孩子吗?
632	Where are they?	他们在哪?
633	If they're in trouble, we'd like to talk to them	如果他们有麻烦,我们想和他们谈谈
634	and talk to their caregivers.	和他们的照顾者谈谈
635	And then we get nothing as a response	然后我们没有得到任何回应
636	because what we find is an enormous amount	因为我们发现的是一个巨大的数量
637	of fraud and graft.	欺诈和贪污。
638	Okay, let me put this example to you.	好吧,让我举个例子给你。
639	Very little of it actually gets to the kids,	几乎没有真正得到的孩子,
640	if anything at all.	如果有什么的话。
641	Let me put this example to you	让我给你举个例子
642	because you grew up in South Africa,	因为你在南非长大
643	so you will know the impact of HIV AIDS well.	这样你就能很好地了解艾滋病毒/艾滋病的影响。
644	And this is why I asked about the data.	这就是我问数据的原因。
645	The U.S. led on international efforts	美国领导了国际努力
646	to combat HIV AIDS treatment, prevention,	- 防治艾滋病毒/艾滋病;
647	有个叫PEPFAR的倡议
648	which is credited with saving 26 million lives	拯救了2 600万人的生命
649	in the last 20 years.	过去20年里
650	It was part of the foreign aid freeze,	这是对外援助冻结的一部分
651	then there was a limited waiver.	然后是有限的放弃。
652	Its services are disrupted.	其服务中断。
653	And UN aid says if permanently discontinued,	联合国的援助说,如果永久停止,
654	there will be another four million AIDS-related deaths	还会有400万人死于艾滋病
655	by 2029.	到2029年为止。
656	So if you look at that example,	所以,如果你看看这个例子,
657	which is backed up by data,	由数据支撑,
658	in 2023, 630,000 people died of AIDS-related illnesses,	2023年,有63万人死于与艾滋病有关的疾病,
659	then perhaps Bill Gates's figures are not wrong.	那么也许比尔·盖茨的数字没有错
660	Millions of lives could be lost.	数百万人可能丧生。
661	First of all, the program,	首先节目
662	the AIDS medication program is continuing.	艾滋病药物方案仍在继续。
663	So your fundamental premise is wrong.	所以,你的基本前提是错误的。
664	It is continuing.	它仍在继续。
665	Now, do you have another example?	现在,你有另一个例子吗?
666	Since the one you cited, it's false.	自从你提到的那一个,这是虚假的。
667	Ilan, not in its entirety.	伊兰,不是整个。
668	But it said it is false.	但它说这是虚假的。
669	Not in its entirety.	不全然无.
670	The program, there's a limited waiver	程序,有一个有限的豁免
671	and UN aids have said that not all of the services	联合国援助社说,并非所有服务
672	that were previously funded by USAID are continuing.	以前由美援署供资的方案仍在继续。
673	So that's why I put that example to you.	这就是为什么我把这个例子给你。
674	Okay, well, which ones aren't being funded?	好吧,哪一个没有资金?
675	I'll fix it right now.	我今当修.
676	Okay, well, actually they're all on the UN AIDS website.	好吧,实际上,他们都在联合国艾滋病网站上。
677	So you'll be able to see them.	所以,你会看到他们。
678	But mostly they are to do with prevention.	但它们大多与预防有关。
679	And for example, the rollout of a drug called Lenacapivir,	比如说一种叫Lenacapivir的药物的推出
680	which was hailed as one of the biggest breakthroughs	被誉为最大的突破之一
681	against AIDS for many years, which came out last year.	多年来抗击艾滋病的斗争,去年才出现。
682	So if you are, perhaps, I'm sure UN AIDS would be delighted	所以,如果你是,也许,我相信联合国艾滋病会很高兴
683	if you're able to look at that again.	如果你能再看一遍的话
684	Yes, but if in fact this is true, which I doubt it is,	是的,但如果这是真的, 我怀疑它是,
685	then we'll fix it.	然后我们会修复它。
686	Okay, fine.	好吧,没事。
687	So finally, political, your political influence.	最后,你的政治影响
688	I wondered whether you have decided yet	不知道你有没有决定
689	how much you're going to spend on the upcoming midterms.	你要花多少钱来做即将到来的中期测试
690	Is it, you spent a lot more money on the last US election	上次美国大选你花了很多钱
691	than you envisaged when you were speaking here	比你在这里说话时想象的要好
692	three years ago.	三年前,我说,
693	Are you gonna continue to spend at that kind of level	你会继续花在那种水平
694	on future elections?	未来选举?
695	I think in terms of political spending,	我想从政治开支来看
696	I'm gonna do a lot less in the future.	我以后会少很多的
697	And why is that?	为什么?
698	I think I've done enough.	我想我已经做了足够的。
699	Is it because of blowback?	是因为回击吗?
700	Well, if I see a reason to do political spending	如果我看到一个理由做政治开支
701	in the future, I will do it.	将来,我会做到这一点。
702	I don't currently see a reason.	我目前没有看到什么原因
703	What about political influence beyond the US?	那美国以外的政治影响呢?
704	How often do you speak to President Putin?	你多久跟普京总统说话一次?
705	I don't speak to President Putin.	我不跟普京总统说话.
706	You've never spoken to President Putin?	你从没跟普京总统说过话?
707	I was on a video call with him once about five years ago.	大约五年前我和他打过电话
708	That's the only time.	这是唯一的时间。
709	Why would you think I speak to President Putin?	我为什么要跟普京总统说话?
710	Oh, you must, I get it.	哦,你必须,我明白了。
711	You believe the legacy.	你相信遗产。
712	Actually, I've heard you speak about it.	事实上,我听说你说过
713	For example, in your West Point speech,	例如,在你的西点演讲中,
714	you said, oh, I challenged President Putin to,	你说,哦,我挑战普京总统,
715	was it an arm wrestle?	是手臂摔跤吗?
716	And I know the Wall Street Journal	我知道华尔街日报
717	has reported your reported conversations.	已经报告了你的谈话
718	If you're saying they haven't happened other than once,	如果你是说他们只发生过一次
719	I'll take that as read.	我当作是念.
720	Is there a worse publication on the face of the earth	地球上有没有更糟糕的出版物
721	than the Wall Street Journal?	比《华尔街日报》还好?
722	I wouldn't use that to line up my cage for paratrophics.	我不会用它排成一排用来做弱智
723	That newspaper is the worst newspaper in the world.	那家报纸是世界上最糟糕的报纸
724	If there's one newspaper that should be pro-capitalist,	如果有一份报纸是亲资本主义的
725	it's the one with Wall Street in the name, but it isn't.	是那个叫华尔街的,但不是
726	So I have the very lowest opinion	所以我有非常低的见解
727	of the Wall Street Journal, absolutely nonsense.	胡说八道
728	And you clearly believe the tripe	你显然相信这三脚怪
729	that you've written, that you've read in those papers.	你在报纸上读过
730	I read very widely and I'm putting these questions to you	我读得非常广泛,我把这些问题交给你
731	so that you have an opportunity to respond to them,	以便你们有机会答复他们,
732	which you are and for which we're all grateful	你是谁,我们都很感激
733	to hear your responses.	听到你的反应。
734	Okay, we are out of time.	好了我们没时间了
735	So you mentioned, you mentioned re-challenging.	所以,你提到,你提到重新质疑。
736	I did so on the X platform.	我这样做在X平台。
737	I challenged Vladimir Putin to single combat	我挑战弗拉基米尔·普京单打独斗
738	over the, I didn't talk to him.	我没有和他说话
739	That was a post on the X platform.	那是在X平台上贴的
740	That's why I asked you and you've clarified and explained.	这就是为什么我问你, 你已经澄清和解释。
741	Thank you, that's why I was asking	谢谢,所以我问
742	whether you have had reported conversations	您是否报告过对话
743	and you said you have it other than a video call.	你说你有除了视频电话以外的东西
744	Okay.	摆
745	Legacy media lies.	遗产媒体说谎.
746	Okay, listen, I actually thought I might give Grok	好吧,听着,我其实以为我会给Grok
747	the last word because when I asked Grok	最后一句话,因为当我问格鲁克
748	what your hardest challenge is,	你最艰难的挑战是什么?
749	it said the strain of managing multiple high-stake ventures	它说管理多个高额投资企业的压力
750	amid financial regulatory and public relations crises.	在金融监管和公共关系危机中。
751	And I wondered whether you recognize that characterization	我想知道你是否认识到这个特征
752	and whether you do think that this	你是否认为
753	is a pivotal year in your life.	你生命中的关键一年
754	Well, every year has been somewhat pivotal	嗯,每年都有些关键
755	and this one's no different.	而这个也没什么不同。
756	So, I mean, in terms of interesting things	所以,我的意思是,在有趣的事情方面
757	that probably are accomplished this year,	很可能是今年完成的,
758	the getting Starship to be fully reused	让星舰完全重用
759	so that we catch both the booster and the ship,	以便我们赶上推进器和飞船,
760	which will be the first fully reusable	这将是第一个完全重用
761	orbital rocket ever in history,	有史以来的轨道火箭,
762	which would be a profound breakthrough	这将是一个深刻的突破
763	as the essential breakthrough necessarily	作为必要的突破
764	to make life multi-planetary	创造多行星的生命
765	and ultimately become a space-faring civilization.	最终成为太空文明
766	We've got Neuralink, which has now helped five patients	我们有Neuralink 现在帮助了五个病人
767	restore capability using the telepathy implants	使用感应植入器恢复能力
768	where they're able to control the computer	他们能控制电脑的地方
769	simply by thinking.	仅仅通过思考。
770	We'll be doing our first patient to restore site	我们会做我们的第一个病人恢复现场
771	with our blind site implant,	与我们的盲点植入,
772	which is the end of this year or early next.	这是今年的结束或明年初。
773	In fact, that first patient might be in UAE	事实上,第一个病人可能在阿联酋
774	since we have a relationship with UAE	既然我们和阿联酋有关系
775	and the Cleveland Clinic there.	还有克利夫兰诊所
776	I think we're throwing on the AI front,	我想我们是在打AI战线
777	we are close to what you might call AGI.	我们接近你所谓的AGI。
778	Or digital super intelligence.	或数位超级智能.
779	I think we are seeing an explosion	我想我们正看到爆炸
780	in digital super intelligence here.	在数字超级智能这里。
781	And then we've got at Tesla,	然后我们得到了特斯拉,
782	we'll be launching unsupervised autonomy,	我们将推出不受监督的自主权,
783	basically self-driving cars	基本上是自驾车
784	with no one in them in Austin next month.	下个月在奥斯汀没人
785	So it's a big year for sure.	所以,这是一个很大的一年是肯定的。
786	Many other things in the works too.	作品中还有很多其他的东西
787	I'm a technologist first and foremost.	我首先是一个技术专家。
788	Elon Musk, thank you very much for joining us here	埃隆·穆斯克,非常感谢你加入我们
789	at Qatar Economic Forum.	卡塔尔经济论坛。
790	Thank you.	谢谢

该视频共有字幕 793 条。解锁更多字幕为会员功能，请移动到价格

下载安装