马斯克前伴侣谈与其决裂后被核弹级反噬 | 2026.10.9
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:01 | Are you a democratic socialist? | 你是民主社会主义者吗? |
| 0:03 | Are you one of the communists? | 你是共产主义者吗? |
| 0:05 | Are you? | 是吗? |
| 0:06 | You were in Mar-a-Lago on election night with the world's richest man. | 在选举之夜 你和全世界最富有的人 在马拉戈 |
| 0:09 | When I was 18, I got involved with Turning Point. | 18岁时,参与"转折点". |
| 0:12 | They really liked young white girls who said whatever they wanted. | 他们很喜欢白人女孩 说他们想要的。 |
| 0:17 | What breaking from Elon man was also breaking from Macca. | 从伊隆人身上断裂的也是从麦克卡身上断裂的 |
| 0:21 | And you knew the blowback would be huge. | 你知道打击会很大 |
| 0:23 | Oh yeah, it's like nuclear. | 哦,是的,这就像核。 |
| 0:25 | They are looking towards the Fuenteses of the world. | 他们正向世界的芬特人看 |
展开字幕全文（452 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Are you a democratic socialist? | 你是民主社会主义者吗? |
| 2 | Are you one of the communists? | 你是共产主义者吗? |
| 3 | Are you? | 是吗? |
| 4 | You were in Mar-a-Lago on election night with the world's richest man. | 在选举之夜 你和全世界最富有的人 在马拉戈 |
| 5 | When I was 18, I got involved with Turning Point. | 18岁时,参与"转折点". |
| 6 | They really liked young white girls who said whatever they wanted. | 他们很喜欢白人女孩 说他们想要的。 |
| 7 | What breaking from Elon man was also breaking from Macca. | 从伊隆人身上断裂的也是从麦克卡身上断裂的 |
| 8 | And you knew the blowback would be huge. | 你知道打击会很大 |
| 9 | Oh yeah, it's like nuclear. | 哦,是的,这就像核。 |
| 10 | They are looking towards the Fuenteses of the world. | 他们正向世界的芬特人看 |
| 11 | I think you give them more power when you're like, they're so dangerous. | 我觉得你给他们更多的力量 当你喜欢, 他们是如此危险。 |
| 12 | But don't you kind of see the problem here is that everyone we've spoken about is like podcasts and streamers. | 但是,你难道不觉得这里的问题是, 我们谈论的每个人就像播客和流客。 |
| 13 | Why do you think we're talking about podcasters? | 为什么你认为我们在谈论播客? |
| 14 | Because people will click on it. | 因为人们会点击它。 |
| 15 | How did you meet Elon Musk? | 你怎么认识埃隆·穆斯克的? |
| 16 | He slid into my DMs. | 他溜进我的模式。 |
| 17 | He slid into your DMs? | 他溜进你的模式? |
| 18 | The world's richest man? | 世界最富有的人? |
| 19 | Yep. | 对 |
| 20 | Followed me, slid into my DMs. | 跟着我,滑进我的模式。 |
| 21 | How old were you? | 你几岁? |
| 22 | 23, I think. | 我想是23岁 |
| 23 | You were working with the Babylon Bee? | 你和巴比伦蜜蜂一起工作? |
| 24 | Yeah, technically I was working for Seth Dillon for his parent company, which also included the Babylon Bee and Libs of TikTok and other entities. | 技术上我为赛斯·迪伦为他的母公司工作 也包括提克托克的巴比伦蜜蜂和Libs以及其他实体 |
| 25 | So he DMs me and he's like, are you ever in San Francisco or Austin? | 所以,他DMs我和他一样, 你曾经在旧金山或奥斯汀? |
| 26 | And I'm like, I'm in Austin a good amount for work and I'm supposed to be in San Francisco whenever you get back to Seth about an interview date. | 而我喜欢,我在奥斯汀 一个很好的金额工作, 我应该是在旧金山 当你回到赛斯 关于一个面试日期。 |
| 27 | Because I was a Babylon Bee employee first and Seth wanted an interview. | 因为我是巴比伦蜜蜂的雇员 赛斯想面试 |
| 28 | And within like 30 seconds, Seth calls me and he's like, Elon just got back to me. | 30秒内,赛斯打电话给我 他好像,伊隆刚刚回到我身边 |
| 29 | We're leaving in like 48 hours to go to San Francisco. | 我们48小时后离开 去旧金山 |
| 30 | And I'm like, OK. | 我很喜欢,OK。 |
| 31 | And so we go there. | 所以我们去那里。 |
| 32 | We do the interview. | 我们做采访。 |
| 33 | And after the interview, Elon texts me and he's like, do you feel like going to Providence tonight? | 面试结束后,伊隆发短信给我 他觉得,你今晚想去普罗维登斯吗? |
| 34 | Rhode Island. | 罗得岛. |
| 35 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 36 | So then an hour later I was on his jet, which was, you know, better than commercial. | 一小时后我在他的飞机上 比商业机要好 |
| 37 | How was that trip? | 旅途怎么样? |
| 38 | It was, you know, it was fun. | 这是,你知道,这是有趣的。 |
| 39 | It was like surreal. | 这就像超现实。 |
| 40 | You're like, is this really happening? | 你就像,这是真的发生吗? |
| 41 | And you're a young girl. | 你是个年轻的女孩。 |
| 42 | You're like, whoa. | 你就像,哇。 你像,哇。 |
| 43 | And then he's doing his little magic tricks with the silverware and the wine glasses. | 然后他用银器和酒杯做他的小魔术. |
| 44 | And he's like, do you want to take a picture? | 他喜欢,你想拍照吗? |
| 45 | I'm like, I can. | 我很喜欢,我可以。 |
| 46 | He's balancing forks and glasses. | 他在平衡叉子和眼镜 |
| 47 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 48 | And glasses on glasses. | 还有眼镜上的眼镜 |
| 49 | You spent a few days with him? | 你和他呆过几天? |
| 50 | No, it was a day. | 不,这是一天。 |
| 51 | Then we went to this hotel that like doubled as a Masonic Lodge, which was weird. | 然后我们去了一个酒店, 像一个共济会旅馆一样翻了一番, 这很奇怪。 |
| 52 | So I'm like seeing these Masonic symbols as I'm going up the elevator and I'm like, what is happening here? | 所以我喜欢看到这些共济会符号 当我上电梯,我一样, 发生了什么事? |
| 53 | And then, you know, and I speak about it in the documentary a little bit about that night in the upcoming last documentary, but it was just very surreal. | 然后,你知道,我在纪录片中谈到它 一点点关于那天晚上, 在即将到来的最后一部纪录片, 但这只是非常超现实。 |
| 54 | And did he... | 他有没有... |
| 55 | Sorry, go on. | 对不起,继续。 |
| 56 | Did he what? | 他说什么? |
| 57 | Did he straight away just say, do you want to make babies? | 他直接说 你想生孩子吗? |
| 58 | No, no, not straight away. | 不,不,不是马上。 |
| 59 | How soon? | 什么时候? |
| 60 | You know, it was, it was, it was later. | 你知道,它是,它是,它是,是后来。 |
| 61 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 62 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 63 | Tell me about that. | 告诉我 |
| 64 | Tell you about what? | 告诉你什么? |
| 65 | How babies are made? | 婴儿是如何形成的? |
| 66 | You don't know? | 你不知道吗? |
| 67 | Well, if you want to tell me how you made them with Eli. | 如果你想告诉我你是怎么跟Eli一起做的吗? |
| 68 | But you knew obviously that he's big into... | 但你显然知道他很... |
| 69 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 70 | So right away when he followed me, I think people also forget how many eyeballs were on him during that time. | 所以当他跟踪我的时候,我想人们也忘记了 在那段时间里他身上有多少眼球。 |
| 71 | This was like very soon after the Twitter takeover. | 这就像在Twitter收购后不久。 |
| 72 | So I was getting congratulation texts from people in MAGA when he followed me because this was all public. | 我从MAGA的人那里得到了祝贺, 当他跟着我,因为这一切都是公开的。 |
| 73 | And there's all these tweets show she's the next baby mama and I'm getting death threats and all this stuff. | 这些微博显示 她是下一个婴儿妈妈 我收到死亡威胁和这一切 |
| 74 | So I was very aware that, you know, he had, there were these rumors that he's like Nick Cannon, but it wasn't a topic of conversation. | 所以我非常清楚,你知道,他有, 有一些传言说他像尼克・坎农, 但这不是一个话题的对话。 |
| 75 | It was probably 1% of our conversations. | 可能是我们谈话的1% |
| 76 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 77 | But I think you did say he had mentioned about building a legion of children. | 但我想你确实说过 他提到要建立一支儿童军团 |
| 78 | Yeah, that was, that was... | 对,那是... |
| 79 | Before Civil War? | 内战前? |
| 80 | Yeah, yeah. | 对 对 |
| 81 | So what motivates Musk when it comes to wanting to make kids? | 那么,什么激励穆斯克 当想生孩子? |
| 82 | I can't speak to his own motivations. | 我不能和他自己的动机说话 |
| 83 | I'm not his psychoanalyst. | 我不是他的心理分析师。 |
| 84 | Like, I don't know what motivates him. | 我不知道什么能激励他 |
| 85 | I kind of feel like you're the closest thing the world has to a Musk psychoanalyst, though. | 我有点觉得你是世界上最接近 穆斯克精神分析师的东西,虽然。 |
| 86 | I think that's only because I'm the only one who's able and not terrified to speak. | 我想那只是因为我是唯一一个能说话而且不怕说话的人. |
| 87 | I think that's also really important to know because the reason I'm speaking to you and the reason I keep speaking, | 我想这也很重要 因为我跟你说话的原因 和我一直说话的原因 |
| 88 | is because I want people to know that you can say no to very powerful people and you can stand up to very powerful people and still be standing. | 因为我想让人们知道 你可以拒绝非常强大的人 你可以站出来对抗非常强大的人 并且仍然站着 |
| 89 | And I hope that one day I'm not always the one sitting in this chair. | 我希望有一天 坐在这椅子上的人不是我 |
| 90 | And you turned down a lot of money to be able to speak. | 你拒绝了很多钱 能说话。 |
| 91 | Yes. | 对 |
| 92 | Was that a hard decision to make? | 这是很难做出的决定吗? |
| 93 | No. | 没有 |
| 94 | Why not? | 为什么不呢? |
| 95 | Because it wasn't right. | 因为这样不对 |
| 96 | I received the offer over disappearing signal messages. | 我接到了从消失的信号信息中发出的报价 |
| 97 | That documentation is in the upcoming Musk documentary as well with the contract, with a call with Jared Bershaw, who is Musk's money manager. | 这些文件也刊登在即将出版的穆斯克纪录片中, |
| 98 | But very shortly after I sent Jared a message and I said, I can't, my children are not, their dignity are not commodities. | 但就在我给贾里德发信后不久,我说,我不能,我的孩子不是,他们的尊严不是商品。 |
| 99 | OK, I cannot in good conscience sign this. | 好吧,我不能在良心上签署这个。 |
| 100 | So you're in the new Alex Gibney doc, Musk. | 所以,你加入了新的亚历克斯・吉布尼医生,穆斯克。 |
| 101 | He had told me, I can't be president, but I can help Trump beat Biden. | 他告诉我,我不能当总统, 但我可以帮助特朗普打败拜登。 |
| 102 | I say, I think we're going to win. | 我说,我想我们会赢的。 |
| 103 | He said I have 10,000 lasers in space. | 他说我太空里有1万台激光器 |
| 104 | I knew that hours ago. | 我几小时前就知道了 |
| 105 | What are his actual motivations? | 他的实际动机是什么? |
| 106 | Do we even know this man at all? | 我们甚至认识这个人吗? |
| 107 | What do you think he's going to think when he sees it? | 你觉得他看到会怎么想? |
| 108 | I don't think he's going to watch it at all. | 他不会看的 |
| 109 | His attorneys are already sending fairy dust legal letters about it. | 他的律师已经发出 仙尘法律信件。 |
| 110 | This long cut of our interview with Ashley Sinclair is part of a documentary that looks at what is next for the MAGA movement. | 我们采访Ashley Sinclair的长篇报道 是一部纪录片的一部分 记录了MAGA运动的下一步 |
| 111 | MAGA Ever After airs on CNN at 8 p.m. Eastern on Saturday, October 17th and will be available to stream the next day on the CNN app. | MAGA在CNN播出后,于10月17日星期六晚上8点在东方播出,并于次日在CNN的应用上流传. |
| 112 | Talk us through how things between you and Elon fell apart and did that also coincide with your break from MAGA? | 告诉我们你和伊隆之间的事情是如何分崩离析的 这是否也与你从MAGA的突破相吻合? |
| 113 | It did in a sense because what breaking from Elon meant was also breaking from MAGA because he is now this godlike figure on the right. | 从某种意义上来说,这是因为从伊隆身上断裂的意思也是从MAGA上断裂的,因为他现在是右边这个像神一样的人物. |
| 114 | And he was running around with a chainsaw at CPAC and destroying the federal government. | 他拿着链锯在CPAC到处跑 摧毁联邦政府 |
| 115 | And you knew the blowback would be huge. | 你知道打击会很大 |
| 116 | Oh, yeah. | 对 |
| 117 | Like nuclear. | 就像核弹一样 |
| 118 | Also, that's like your community of friends for the past year, right? | 而且,这就像你的朋友社区 在过去的一年,对不对? |
| 119 | Or decade? | 还是十年? |
| 120 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 121 | So that's a huge step. | 所以这是一大步。 |
| 122 | Yes. | 对 |
| 123 | Were you afraid? | 你害怕吗? |
| 124 | I think there's always some amount of fear. | 我认为总有一些恐惧。 |
| 125 | It's obvious. | 显如来. |
| 126 | It's obviously scary to do something like that and blow up your whole life and change what you've known for a decade. | 做这样的事情 炸掉你的一生 改变你十几年来所知道的 很明显是可怕的 |
| 127 | But I also have two young kids and I want them to be courageous. | 但我还有两个孩子 我希望他们勇敢一点 |
| 128 | And part of being courageous is doing it afraid. | 勇敢的一面就是害怕 |
| 129 | And as you start to speak out about this, you also sort of gave us an insight into the world of what the MAGA? | 当你开始直言不讳地谈论这个, 你也给了我们一个关于什么MAGA的洞察力? |
| 130 | MAGA邪教组织. | |
| 131 | MAGA邪教吗? | |
| 132 | Yes. | 对 |
| 133 | I have noticed in interviews as you speak about this, it almost sounds like it does sound like you've left a cult or that you've left Scientology or something. | 我在采访中注意到,当你谈到这一点, 它几乎听起来像它确实 听起来像你离开了邪教 或者你离开了科学学什么的。 |
| 134 | Yes. | 对 |
| 135 | Does it feel like that? | 感觉是这样吗? |
| 136 | Yes. | 对 |
| 137 | Because it is that. | 因为就是这样 |
| 138 | It doesn't feel like that it is. | 不觉如是. |
| 139 | When you look at the structures of cults, MAGA, particularly as it relates to people like me and these figureheads, it very much is a cult. | 当你看看邪教组织的结构,MAGA, 特别是因为它涉及像我这样的人和这些头目, 它非常是一个邪教。 |
| 140 | Because when you leave, you're not just saying goodbye and they're wishing you farewell. | 因为当你离开,你不只是说再见 他们希望你告别。 |
| 141 | You're blowing up your whole life. | 你毁了你的一生。 |
| 142 | There is backlash. | 有反弹。 |
| 143 | There is retaliation. | 有报复。 |
| 144 | There is the economic structure that's tied to it that is now gone. | 有经济结构 与之相连 现在已经不复存在。 |
| 145 | Everything in your life is tied up in this. | 你生命中的一切都和这个有关 |
| 146 | It very much is a cult. | 非常是一个邪教。 |
| 147 | And one of the first things, which was really damaging while I was a young teenager in college, is fake news. | 最初的一件事情,在我还是个少年的时候, 是非常有害的, 是假新闻。 |
| 148 | And I don't need to tell you at CNN that. | 我不需要在CNN告诉你这一点。 |
| 149 | But this fake news rhetoric that was pushed, what it really does is it sequesters people from information. | 但这种被推开的假新闻言论, 它真正做的就是将人们从信息中隔离出来。 |
| 150 | It sequesters people from anything outside of the bubble that they deem is okay and truthful and appropriate. | 它将人们从泡沫之外的任何事物中隔离出来,他们认为这些事物是好的,是真实的和适当的. |
| 151 | And so once I left and I started consuming the information that I wasn't supposed to, it was very eye opening. | 所以,一旦我离开,我开始消费 我不应该使用的信息, 它非常开眼。 |
| 152 | But they do that deliberately. | 但他们是故意的 |
| 153 | Tell us about what you see happening in MAGA right now, because it does seem like there's major breaks with Trump in a way that's never existed before. | 告诉我们你现在在MAGA看到什么, 因为它似乎有 与特朗普重大突破的方式 从来没有发生过。 |
| 154 | Not to this extent, but I think there's also a calculation on some of MAGA's part that, okay, well, what do we do after Trump? | 没有,但我想还有一个计算 MAGA的部分, 好吧,好吧,我们在特朗普之后怎么办? |
| 155 | And part of that is they're going to have to concede some of these points that the left are making because they're hard to ignore some of these points. | 这部分是,他们不得不承认 左边的一些观点, 因为他们很难忽略这些观点。 |
| 156 | And I do see them becoming more radical. | 我确实看到它们变得更加激进。 |
| 157 | I do see them holding fast in these positions, especially as it relates to immigration and the racism and the treatment against women and these traditional gender roles. | 我确实看到他们担任这些职务的速度很快,特别是因为这涉及到移民和对妇女的种族主义和待遇以及这些传统的性别角色。 |
| 158 | I think they will stay steadfast there and then you will have your figures like Tucker Carlson, who concede to some of the left's points to make it seem like, well, you know, yeah, you were reasonable on some things, but this is still the right way. | 我认为他们会坚持在那里,然后你就会得到你的数字 像塔克·卡尔森, 他承认一些左边的点 使它看起来像,嗯,你知道,是的,你 在一些事情上是合理的, |
| 159 | We've spoken to a lot of young guys for this stock, young MAGA influencers, I guess, or MAGA adjacents. | 我们为这股股票和很多年轻人谈过, 年轻的MAGA影响者,我猜, 或MAGA邻近的人。 |
| 160 | They're really icky. | 他们真的很恶心。 |
| 161 | Well, I mean, I think a lot of them are young and confused like you are, right? | 嗯,我的意思是,我认为很多 他们都是年轻和困惑 像你一样,对不对? |
| 162 | Yeah, but there's also, they're different in the way that they are just grasping for power. | 是的,但也有, 他们的方式不同 他们只是抓住权力。 |
| 163 | Like they really want to maintain this sense of what they believe is masculinity. | 就像他们真的想保持这种 他们相信的男子气概。 |
| 164 | And that involves stepping over other people. | 这涉及到踩过其他人。 |
| 165 | There's Nico. | 这是尼科。 |
| 166 | If you have a beautiful woman next to you, then it makes you look better. | 如果你身边有个漂亮的女人 那会让你看起来更好 |
| 167 | She's an object and you're everything else. | 她是一个物体, 而你是其他的一切。 |
| 168 | There's James Fishback, who's, I don't know if you're familiar with James Fishback. | 有詹姆斯·菲什贝克, 谁是谁,我不知道你是否熟悉詹姆斯·菲什贝克。 |
| 169 | I'm familiar. | 常识. |
| 170 | Young women in this state used to aspire to be business owners, doctors, nurses, teachers, and even devoted mothers. | 这个州的年轻妇女曾经渴望成为企业主、医生、护士、教师,甚至有献身精神的母亲。 |
| 171 | And now you have a disgusting, disgraceful platform called OnlyFans that encourages them to sell nude images and videos of their body on the Internet to complete strangers. | 现在,你有一个恶心的,可耻的平台,叫"OnlyFans",鼓励他们在互联网上出售他们身体的裸体图像和视频,让陌生人完全了解。 |
| 172 | I want to be very clear, that is sinful. | 我想说清楚,这是有罪的。 |
| 173 | His appeal is he's saying what they want Republicans to say, that he's actually going to fight against corruption, that he's different than all the other ones. | 他的吸引力是,他在说他们想要共和党人说的话,他实际上要打击腐败,他和所有其他人不同. |
| 174 | They're looking for something different. | 他们在找不同的东西 |
| 175 | And Fishback is giving that to him. | 菲什贝克正在给他这个 |
| 176 | He's not scared to go after the people they blame for all their problems, like the OnlyFans girls who are now, they're the reason society is breaking. | 他不怕去追那些被他们怪罪的人,像现在的"唯一法兰斯女孩"一样,他们是社会崩溃的原因. |
| 177 | They need to blame anyone but themselves. | 他们需要责怪任何人 除了自己 |
| 178 | And I see it as the final culmination of a lack of personal responsibility or role that they need someone else to blame. | 我认为这是缺乏个人责任或角色的最终结果, 他们需要别人责备。 |
| 179 | And Fishback is really good at blaming other people. | 鱼背公司很擅长责怪别人 |
| 180 | And how big a role do you think sexism, misogyny plays in this? | 你认为性别主义、厌恶女性主义 扮演的角色有多大? |
| 181 | It's a central role. | 这是一个中心角色。 |
| 182 | Is it the main motivator? | 是主驱动器吗? |
| 183 | Yeah, they're blaming women for most of these issues because they need someone to blame. | 是啊,她们责怪女性 这些问题的大部分 因为他们需要人责怪。 |
| 184 | They need someone to blame but themselves, that it's OnlyFans that's corrupting Western civilization and destroying the country. | 他们需要一个人去责怪自己,那就是只有范斯才是腐蚀西方文明和破坏国家的人. |
| 185 | It's sexual degeneracy. | 性性堕落. |
| 186 | It's this, that, and the other. | 是这个,那个,还有另一个 |
| 187 | It's women voting the wrong way. | 女人选错路了 |
| 188 | It's that we have no fault divorce. | 我们没有过失离婚 |
| 189 | Rather than looking inward and saying, oh, maybe it's the billionaires at the inauguration. | 而不是向内看 说,哦,也许这是 亿万富翁在就职典礼。 |
| 190 | Because that's what I thought was so notable. | 因为这是我认为如此显著。 |
| 191 | And I've noticed, whether it's Tucker or Fishback, there's a lot of talk about OnlyFans girls. | 我注意到,无论是塔克还是鱼背, 有很多关于只有芬斯的女孩。 |
| 192 | Yes, which I just think is telling on yourself. | 是的,我只是觉得这是在说你自己 |
| 193 | We've seen a lot of young men move towards Catholicism. | 我们看到许多年轻人向天主教运动发展. |
| 194 | I think for a lot of these folks, megaism and Trumpism kind of replaced religion in a way. | 我认为,对于很多人来说, 特大主义和特朗普主义在某种程度上是一种替代宗教。 |
| 195 | And so now that that's dying off, humans are kind of incapable of living without myth or some sort of hope beyond themselves. | 所以现在,人类正在消亡, 人类是无法生存的 没有神话或某种希望 超越自己。 |
| 196 | Now that a lot of guys are coming to terms that Trump isn't what they thought he'd be, I guess you might view that as a positive. | 现在很多人都认为特朗普不是他们想的那样, 我猜你可能会认为这是一个积极的。 |
| 197 | I don't think that's sufficient. | 我觉得这还不够 |
| 198 | I think you need to call yourself dumb. | 我觉得你需要 自称哑巴。 |
| 199 | I think you weren't duped. | 我想你没有被骗 |
| 200 | There were people who were speaking about the reality of Trump and MAGA and what the culmination of his policies and rhetoric would lead to. | 有人在谈论特朗普和MAGA的现实,以及他的政策和言论的高潮将带来什么. |
| 201 | And we're seeing that right now. | 我们现在看到这一点。 |
| 202 | You weren't duped. | 你没被骗 |
| 203 | You were warned. | 你被警告过 |
| 204 | But you called those people crazy. | 但你说那些人疯了 |
| 205 | And I think that's really important for them to reconcile with and say, OK, how are we duped? | 我认为这对他们来说很重要 与他们和解,然后说,好吧,我们怎么被骗? |
| 206 | Because if you don't reconcile how you were duped or how you fell for that, then it's going to happen again. | 因为如果你不调和你是如何被骗的 或者你是如何被骗的, 那么它会再次发生。 |
| 207 | Whether it's a James Fishback or anyone else. | 不管是詹姆斯·菲斯贝克还是其他人 |
| 208 | I guess that's what I'm getting at is that for some of these guys, it's not taking a step back and saying, oh, you know, politicians lie on the left, on the right. | 我想这就是我得到的是, 对于其中一些人来说, 它不会退一步 说,哦,你知道,政客躺在左边,右边。 |
| 209 | And we have to take everything. | 我们必须把一切都拿走。 |
| 210 | No, now they're victims. | 不,现在他们是受害者了。 |
| 211 | They're victims. | 他们是受害者。 |
| 212 | And they're going to, I would say, a more extreme, you know, right, like they are looking toward the sort of fuenteses of the world. | 他们将会,我会说,一个更极端的,你知道的,正确的, 就像他们正在寻找一种世界的风云。 |
| 213 | In terms of like a generation of young men who are moving toward a fuentes, how worried are you about having your kids growing up in a society like that? | 在像一代年轻人 正在向一个富翁移动, 你有多担心让你的孩子 在这样的社会中长大? |
| 214 | I'm not worried at all because I'm confident in my abilities as a mother and a parent and the people that I surround my children with and that I can give them a strong enough sense of self and identity. | 我一点都不担心,因为我对作为母亲和父母的能力,以及我身边与我孩子在一起的人的能力充满信心,而且我可以给他们足够的自我和身份感. |
| 215 | Obviously, there is some worry with who they get involved in, but I think being involved and making sure that your children don't look for validation outside of themselves. | 显然,有些担心 他们参与谁, 但我认为参与 并确保你的孩子 不寻找验证 自己之外。 |
| 216 | That's what I think most of these young men are doing. | 我认为大多数年轻人都在这么做 |
| 217 | I think all of the young men in that room for Fishback are not very confident in themselves. | 我想那个房间里所有年轻人 都不太自信 |
| 218 | I think they're very insecure boys who have issues that they should deal with. | 我认为他们很不安全 他们有问题 他们应该处理。 |
| 219 | So how can they be reached? | 那么,怎样才能达到他们? |
| 220 | That's a question for them. | 这是他们的问题。 |
| 221 | They need to reach within themselves. | 他们需要深入内部。 |
| 222 | I don't know that there's any reaching them. | 我不知道有没有人接近他们。 |
| 223 | I think we just need to vote. | 我想我们只需要投票 |
| 224 | I think women need to keep voting. | 我认为妇女需要继续投票。 |
| 225 | Men historically vote at a lower rate, and they need to understand that outsourcing their pain and cruelty to another politician isn't going to fix anything. | 从历史上看,男人以较低的投票率投票,他们需要明白,把他们的痛苦和残酷外包给另一位政治家是不会解决问题的. |
| 226 | I think we need to call it out for what it is. | 我认为我们需要叫出来 它是什么。 |
| 227 | I think they like being super villains. | 我认为他们喜欢做超级恶棍 |
| 228 | I think you give them more power when you're like, they're so dangerous and they're going to take the children and take your boys. | 我觉得你给他们更多的权力 当你喜欢, 他们是如此危险, 他们要去带走孩子 和你的男孩。 |
| 229 | I think that they like that. | 我觉得他们喜欢这样 |
| 230 | They like that super villain that gives them some modicum of power and validation in a sense that they have this sway over the youths. | 他们喜欢那个超级反派 给他们一些权力和认可 让他们对年轻人有这种影响 |
| 231 | And so I think it's really important just to call them losers. | 所以我认为说他们是失败者是非常重要的。 |
| 232 | OK, that's one tactic and could be. | 好吧,这是一种战术,有可能。 |
| 233 | Yeah, that's probably why a lot of them hate you. | 是啊,这可能是为什么很多 他们讨厌你。 |
| 234 | Yeah, that's fine. | 是啊,这很好。 |
| 235 | Because you're a young, confident woman calling them losers, which they must really despise. | 因为你是一个年轻自信的女人 称他们为失败者, 他们必须真正鄙视。 |
| 236 | But if you wanted to be a little bit more altruistic, and I sense maybe you're not in the mood for that with these guys. | 但如果你想多一点利他主义, 而且我觉得也许你没有心情 与这些家伙。 |
| 237 | But you're an expert in this in terms of youth engagement, right? | 但你是这方面的专家 在青年参与,对不对? |
| 238 | Coming up to your turning point, you've seen all of this. | 到了你的转折点,你已经看到了这一切。 |
| 239 | What is the and I don't want to say Joe Rogan of the left, but like, you know, a lot of these guys like fish back. | 左边的乔·罗根是什么,我不想说 但是,你知道,很多这些人喜欢回鱼。 |
| 240 | They like Fuentes because they'll say, well, it's not the racism, it's not the anti-Semitism, it's not the sexism. | 他们喜欢富恩特斯,因为他们会说,嗯,这不是种族主义,不是反犹太主义,也不是性别歧视. |
| 241 | We just like edgy jokes and we like, you know, that this is they need a daddy. | 我们只是喜欢疯狂的笑话 我们喜欢,你知道, 这是他们需要一个爸爸。 |
| 242 | They're trying to find a father figure in their podcast. | 他们想在播客中找到一个父亲 |
| 243 | So who can create that? | 那谁能创造呢? |
| 244 | Like, is there is there a way that you can create a sort of tamer manosphere that doesn't automatically just swing back into far right politics? | 比如,你有没有办法 创造出一种不自动回到极右政治的 驯服面层? |
| 245 | Well, they're getting something from it, too, because a lot of those people in that room probably also are tweeting and getting engagement there. | 嗯,他们也从中得到了一些东西, 因为很多在那个房间里的人 可能也在推特上和在那里得到参与。 |
| 246 | They're getting those feedback loops from being little racist online. | 他们得到的反馈循环 从小种族主义在线。 |
| 247 | But I think that's part of the reason people are so scared of Hassan Piker. | 但我认为这就是人们害怕哈桑·皮克的原因之一。 |
| 248 | And I know that that is now there's all this Hassan hysteria happening right now. | 我知道,现在有 这一切的哈桑歇斯底里 现在发生。 |
| 249 | But I said this was going to happen six months ago on Suzanne Lambert's show. | 但我说这要发生在六个月前 苏珊娜·兰伯特的节目上 |
| 250 | I said they are terrified of Hassan because he does have the ability to capture that demographic of people and give them more solace with completely opposite politics. | 我说,他们害怕哈桑,因为他确实有能力捕捉人口,并使他们更加安抚与完全相反的政治。 |
| 251 | I mean, people often equate Hassan Piker with Nick Fuentes. | 人们经常把哈桑·皮克和尼克·富恩特斯等同起来 |
| 252 | Do you think that's fair? | 你觉得这样公平吗? |
| 253 | Who does that? | 谁干的? |
| 254 | There's a lot of people. | 有众生. |
| 255 | I feel like that's very silly. | 我觉得这很傻 |
| 256 | Like, I beg your finest pardon. | 喜欢,我恳求你最好的原谅。 |
| 257 | That is very silly. | 这是非常愚蠢的。 |
| 258 | I think they should find better things to do. | 我认为他们应该找到更好的事情去做。 |
| 259 | Any of these news outlets who are feeding into the Hassan hysteria are playing into a right wing psyop to conflate Hassan with the figurehead of the left and then use him to as the smear campaign against what is a very real rise in progressive politics an | 将哈桑和左翼人物混为一谈, 然后利用他来进行诽谤运动, |
| 260 | Are you a Democrat now? | 你现在是民主党人了吗? |
| 261 | Are you a democratic socialist? | 你是民主社会主义者吗? |
| 262 | Are you one of the communists? | 你是共产主义者吗? |
| 263 | Are you? | 是吗? |
| 264 | So I am a dues paying member of DSA, but I... | 所以我是支付 DSA的成员,但我... |
| 265 | Oh, you're a DSA member? | 哦,你是一个DSA会员? |
| 266 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 267 | Recently? | 最近吗? |
| 268 | A little bit ago. | 略说前. |
| 269 | Wow. | 珃 |
| 270 | You're a dangerous leftist radical. | 你是个危险的左翼激进分子 |
| 271 | No, I think it's also just me trying to come to my own understanding. | 不,我想这也是我试图达成自己的理解。 |
| 272 | And that's why I'm not too outspoken saying, you know, seize the means and DSA now. | 所以我才不会直言不讳地说, 你知道,现在, 抓住手段和DSA。 |
| 273 | That's why you had to ask me that question is because I'm still trying to develop my own ideas. | 这就是为什么你不得不问我这个问题 因为我仍然在试图发展我自己的想法。 |
| 274 | I don't want to go back into, well, now I'm within the liberal community and the leftist community. | 我不想再回到,嗯, 现在我在自由主义社区和左派社区。 |
| 275 | I want to be very intentional in keeping my advocacy and my intellectual thoughts produced on my own. | 我想非常有意识地保持我的主张和思想的产生. |
| 276 | But I do like that they are a resistance to what's happening, especially since, you know, I kind of went to the top of capitalism and it was a bit scary to see that. | 但我确实喜欢,他们是一个抵抗 正在发生的事情, 特别是,因为,你知道, 我有点去资本主义的顶端, |
| 277 | That's a good way to put it. | 说此妙法. |
| 278 | You've gone from MAGA to Democratic Socialist, which I think if you're at a dinner in Washington, D.C. | 你从MAGA到民主社会主义, 我认为如果你在华盛顿特区的晚餐。 |
| 279 | Well, don't put me in the box. | 别把我放在盒子里 |
| 280 | I just support them because I like what they're doing. | 我只是支持他们 因为我喜欢他们做的事 |
| 281 | But I work for the news. | 但我为新闻工作 |
| 282 | We put you in a box, OK? | 我们把你放在盒子里,好吗? |
| 283 | Nobody puts baby in the box. | 没人会把孩子放在盒子里 |
| 284 | You've gone from supporting MAGA to be a Democratic Socialist curious. | 你从支持MAGA变成一个民主社会主义者的好奇心。 |
| 285 | That's not as wild a move as I think a lot of establishment politicians or people would like to think. | 这不是一个疯狂的举动 我认为很多 机构政治家或人们会想。 |
| 286 | No, not at all. | 不,一点也不。 |
| 287 | That's why you saw a lot of the Bernie bros who supported Trump in 2016. | 这也是你看到很多2016年支持特朗普的伯尼兄弟的原因. |
| 288 | That was very real. | 这是非常真实的。 |
| 289 | Again, I think there's an appropriate identification of the issue on both ends of the spectrum that there is something seriously wrong happening in America. | 我再说一遍,我认为在两端都适当地辨别了这个问题,即美国发生了一些严重的错误. |
| 290 | And one side thinks the answer is racism and the other one thinks that it's, you know, being good people. | 而一方认为答案是种族主义,另一方则认为它是,你知道的,是好人. |
| 291 | So it's but it is the correct identification that something is very wrong. | 所以这是,但它是正确的识别 某事是非常错误的。 |
| 292 | And can you explain for our audience what horseshoe theory is, as you understand this? | 你能向我们的观众解释马蹄理论是什么吗? |
| 293 | That if you go so far one way, you're looping back into the other, it's the same thing. | 如果你走这么远, 你循环回另一个, 这是同样的事情。 |
| 294 | But it's not even thought about, I think, as in the extremes, right? | 但它甚至没有考虑,我想, 像在极端,对不对? |
| 295 | But that's not, as you described it, that's not quite the case. | 但正如你所描述的,情况并非如此。 |
| 296 | I wouldn't say that these people we deem as the extremes are actually the extremes. | 我不会说那些我们认为极端的人 实际上是极端。 |
| 297 | I think the extremists are actually the centrist. | 我认为极端分子实际上是中间派。 |
| 298 | I think the extremists are the ones who consistently come to compromises with evil. | 我认为,极端分子是一贯与邪恶妥协的人。 |
| 299 | I think that's extreme to make compromises with people who are destroying this country and pillaging the world. | 我认为,与破坏这个国家和掠夺世界的人达成妥协是极端的。 |
| 300 | I think that is the real extreme and that the people on the other ends of the spectrum are more normal. | 我认为,这是真正的极端现象,而其他各端的人则更加正常。 |
| 301 | I think I'm able to have more normal conversations with either side of the spectrum than I am with a squishy centrist. | 我想我可以和光谱的两边 进行更正常的对话 比我和一位光谱学家的对话还要多 |
| 302 | They give me a weird feeling. | 他们给我一种奇怪的感觉。 |
| 303 | It's almost like the robotic NPCs. | 这几乎就像机器人NPC一样. |
| 304 | You're like, something's not quite right with you. | 你好像有些不对劲 |
| 305 | And so I would say that they're the extremists and they're the ones in the government who have caused so much harm with these compromises. | 所以我要说他们是极端分子 也是政府里 对这些妥协造成如此大伤害的人 |
| 306 | You mentioned you don't push Hassan Piker in the same bucket as Nick Fuentes. | 你说过你不会把哈桑·皮克 和尼克·富恩特斯放在同一个桶里 |
| 307 | You're back to Hassan. | 你回到哈桑身边了 |
| 308 | You're close to being the RNC and showing his meat pack on the screen. | 你接近成为RNC 并在屏幕上展示他的肉包。 |
| 309 | You're going to show me a photo of him next? | 你要给我看他的照片吗? |
| 310 | That's my background. | 这是我的背景。 |
| 311 | Do you view a danger in Democrats trying to equate Hassan Piker with Nick Fuentes? | 你是否认为民主党人试图把哈桑·皮克和尼克·富恩特斯等同起来是一种危险? |
| 312 | Yes, I think they're the real extremists. | 是的,我认为他们是真正的极端分子。 |
| 313 | I think they're the ones polluting the conversation with nonsense when there's very real issues we need to talk about. | 我认为他们是那些污染谈话的废话 当有非常真实的问题我们需要谈论。 |
| 314 | I think that's extreme. | 我觉得这很极端 |
| 315 | Don't you kind of see the problem here is that everyone we've spoken about is like podcast and streamers. | 你难道不觉得问题在于 我们所说的每个人都像播客和流客一样 |
| 316 | And the onus is not on any politician who's actually doing anything, like we're going to fixate on a Fuentes or Hassan or Fishback or whoever. | 而责任并不在于任何政客,他们正在做任何事情, 就像我们要固定在富恩特斯或哈桑或菲什贝克或任何人身上。 |
| 317 | And the onus is on the elected representatives. | 而责任在于民选代表。 |
| 318 | Because people have given up hope on elected representatives. | 因为人们已经放弃了对当选代表的希望. |
| 319 | We had the highest turnout ever in the last election. | 我们在上次选举中的投票率是有史以来最高的。 |
| 320 | So you don't think people have given up hope? | 所以你不认为人们放弃了希望? |
| 321 | No, and I think, you know, I think there's a chance that they do. | 不,我想,你知道, 我认为他们有这个机会。 |
| 322 | They lose a sense of optimism, which affects turnout. | 他们失去了乐观感,这影响了投票率。 |
| 323 | And I would say that they shouldn't. | 而且我会说 他们不应该。 |
| 324 | There wouldn't be so many efforts, especially by this administration, to impact voter turnout if it wasn't effective. | 如果没有效果,就不会有这么多的努力,特别是本届政府,来影响选民投票率. |
| 325 | Why do you think we're talking about podcasters? | 为什么你认为我们在谈论播客? |
| 326 | Because people will click on it. | 因为人们会点击它。 |
| 327 | These guys are really powerful in that they have big audiences. | 这些家伙非常强大,因为他们有大观众。 |
| 328 | I mean... | 我是说... |
| 329 | They have institutional power? | 他们有体制权力? |
| 330 | No, but they have audiences. | 不,但他们有观众。 |
| 331 | Big reach. | 够大了 |
| 332 | Yeah, so do you. | 对,你也一样。 |
| 333 | So do I. | 我也一样。 |
| 334 | I think it's a waste of time. | 我认为这是浪费时间。 |
| 335 | To talk about them. | 谈谈他们。 |
| 336 | Yes. | 对 |
| 337 | I think the way that people have badgered these Democrat candidates who are doing a lot of good about Hassan and asking them to denounce him is ridiculous. | 我认为,人们用这种方式来指责这些为哈桑做很多好事的民主党候选人,并要求他们谴责他,这是荒谬的。 |
| 338 | I think it's a waste of time. | 我认为这是浪费时间。 |
| 339 | And they've lost the plot because, meanwhile, Gavin Newsom is bending over backwards for the Ellisons. | 而他们失去了这个阴谋 因为与此同时,加文・纽森 正在向后弯曲 倒向埃里森一家。 |
| 340 | The Ellisons? | 埃里森一家吗? |
| 341 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 342 | Who are they? | 他们是谁? |
| 343 | Your new bosses. | 你的新老板们 |
| 344 | Oh, really? | 是吗? |
| 345 | I used to miss that. | 我曾经怀念这个 |
| 346 | Well, I, for one, am very excited for my new corporate overlords. | 嗯,我,首先,我很兴奋 我的新公司霸主。 |
| 347 | S. | |
| 348 | I think he is a perfect culmination of these boys who lack a sense of identity. | 我认为他是一个完美的顶峰 这些男孩谁缺乏身份感。 |
| 349 | He has no coherent worldview, yet he is propped up as someone who's, you know, swaying the boys. | 他没有连贯的世界观, 但他被提升为,你知道,摇摆男孩。 |
| 350 | No, he has no coherent worldview outside of making money and getting clicks. | 不,他没有连贯的世界观 除了赚钱和获得点击。 |
| 351 | Okay, but he can still sway the boys. | 好吧,但他仍然可以摇动 男孩。 |
| 352 | No. | 没有 |
| 353 | Really? | 真的吗? |
| 354 | You don't believe that? | 你不相信吗? |
| 355 | I don't think in a meaningful way, no. | 我觉得没有意义,没有。 |
| 356 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 357 | Because most of his audience can't vote. | 因为大多数观众不能投票. |
| 358 | But they're going to grow up and be able to vote, or many of them can vote. | 但是他们要长大后才能投票,或者他们中许多人可以投票. |
| 359 | Maybe, if they're even here. | 也许,如果他们甚至在这里。 |
| 360 | If they're in America. | 如果他们在美国的话 |
| 361 | Well, look, I'll put it this way. | 好吧,你看,我会这样说。 |
| 362 | We met Sneak-o across the street in Washington Square Park. | 我们在华盛顿广场公园对面遇到了Sneak -o |
| 363 | And as we were walking down the street, he was getting stopped every 25 steps by young guys who are in this country who can vote. | 当我们走在街上时, 他每25步都会被 这个国家里能投票的年轻人拦住。 |
| 364 | Can I get a picture with you real quick? | 我能跟你拍张照吗? |
| 365 | I appreciate it. | 谢谢 |
| 366 | That happened to me years ago when I was walking down the street with the Hodge twins and everyone stops them. | 几年前我和霍奇双胞胎走在街上 大家都阻止他们 |
| 367 | You know, they see some sort of celebrity, but I think... | 你知道,他们看到某种名人, 但我想... |
| 368 | They're kind of quantificating on politics with what you would say is a very incoherent, and I would say, frankly, very confusing worldview. | 他们把政治与你所说的非常不连贯的 政治相提并论,我坦率地说,非常混乱的世界观。 |
| 369 | Yes. | 对 |
| 370 | They are imparting that incoherency onto these young guys. | 他们把这种不连贯 传授给这些年轻人。 |
| 371 | They're imparting it onto Twitter, I'm sure. | 他们把它传授给 微博,我敢肯定. |
| 372 | I just think we give them too much power. | 我只是觉得我们给了他们太多的力量。 |
| 373 | We really do. | 我们真的有 |
| 374 | 我认为那些跟随像Sneak -o和Sneak | |
| 375 | Do you not see a younger version of yourself in all of these guys and in Sneak-o and in the people that follow them? | 在所有这些家伙中,在Sneak-o中,以及在跟随他们的人中,你没有看到自己更年轻的版本吗? |
| 376 | In some regard. | 在某些方面。 |
| 377 | And you got politically active through this type of infrastructure? | 你通过这种基础设施 在政治上很活跃? |
| 378 | Mine was different because mine was I got so caught up in being a figure myself, and so that was very validating for me. | 我的不一样,因为我的... ...我太忙于做一个像样的人了, 所以这对我来说非常有效。 |
| 379 | I wasn't, you know, a chronically online follower of someone else in the way that they are. | 我不是,你知道, 一个长期在线跟踪 别人的方式,他们的方式。 |
| 380 | I was in the ecosystem of the cult in which, if I laughed, I was screwed. | 我当时在邪教的生态系统里 如果我笑了,我就完蛋了 |
| 381 | These people who just follow him, they don't, nothing's going to happen to them if they leave. | 这些人只是跟着他,他们没有, 如果他们离开,他们不会有事。 |
| 382 | What is the thing you most regret about your time in the, can we call it the microverse? | 你对你那段时间最后悔的事是什么 我们可以称之为微博吗? |
| 383 | Yeah, yeah, I think being unempathetic, I think projecting my own brokenness onto other people and doing what those young boys are doing now and finding solace in people who were being angry for me instead of working through those issues. | 是的,是的,我认为是无情的, 我认为投射我自己的破碎 别人,做那些年轻的男孩 正在做的, |
| 384 | I just saw a headline that came up on my phone recently about the hospitals that cut deals with the Trump administration to end gender affirming care. | 我刚刚在手机上看到一条头条 是关于医院 切断与特朗普政府的交易 |
| 385 | And I like, even though I know that's not my fault, like I felt guilt for any role I played in pushing narratives that have led to these consequences. | 我喜欢,尽管我知道这不是我的错, 就像我感到内疚,我扮演了任何角色, 推动那些导致这些后果的叙事。 |
| 386 | And so I think I'm always going to feel guilt about my own role in pushing rhetoric about things I didn't know anything about and taking the internet so seriously. | 所以我认为,我总是会感到内疚 对自己的角色, 推辞 关于我一无所知的事情, 和如此认真的互联网。 |
| 387 | I think that's probably why I'm more like nonchalant about this is because the more time you spend off the internet, you realize it's not real. | 我想这就是为什么我更喜欢 无关紧要 是因为你花在互联网上的时间越多 你就会意识到那不是真的 |
| 388 | I don't, as I walk around and I talk to people, SNECO's not brought up once, you know, it's brought up a lot for you. | 我没有,当我走来走去 和别人说话, SNECO没有 长大一次,你知道,它 为你提起了很多。 |
| 389 | But I just don't, I think there's a larger issue at hand with the state of our young people and that they feel broken and lost. | 但我只是不, 我认为有一个更大的问题 与我们年轻人的状况, 他们感到破碎和迷失。 |
| 390 | And at the end of the day, even if I vehemently disagree with these young men, they are identifying a problem correctly. | 最终,即使我强烈反对这些年轻人, 他们正在正确识别一个问题。 |
| 391 | And that's that something needs to change and that they are feeling how broken things are. | 这就是需要改变的东西, 他们感到事情是多么破碎。 |
| 392 | They are just terribly, terribly misinformed to the solution and what we should do to that. | 他们只是非常,非常错误地知道解决办法,以及我们应该为此做些什么。 |
| 393 | But they are correctly identifying an issue that's happening to all of us. | 但是他们正在正确地找出一个发生在我们所有人身上的问题。 |
| 394 | All of us feel unstable about what's happening in this country and they're looking for someone to fix it. | 我们都对这个国家正在发生的事情感到不稳定,他们正在找人来修复. |
| 395 | I just think you're not going to find that to all of us in SNECO and you should be ashamed. | 我只是觉得你不会在SNECO找到 我们所有人,你应该感到羞愧。 |
| 396 | You published an anti-trans book. | 你出版了一本反翻译的书 |
| 397 | Would that be the right way to characterize it? | 这是否是描述它的正确方法? |
| 398 | And so you got sort of swept up in... | 所以你被卷进来了... |
| 399 | I did. | 没错 |
| 400 | In my head and how it's framed in MAGA is very much, well, it's protecting women and children. | 在我脑海中以及在MAGA中如何设定它 是非常,嗯,它保护妇女和儿童。 |
| 401 | And then it's like, wait, that's the only time you guys care about protecting women and children. | 然后它就像,等等, 这是你们唯一关心 保护妇女和儿童的时间。 |
| 402 | I worked with Libs of TikTok and to see just the cruelty in return for social media monetization, | 我和TikTok的Libs一起工作 并看到残酷的回报 社交媒体货币化, |
| 403 | they need to understand that as well is that so many of these people that they look up to don't have a coherent worldview. | 他们也需要理解的是, 这么多这些人 他们仰望着没有一个连贯的世界观。 |
| 404 | They're making a lot of money off of you. | 他们从你身上赚了很多钱 |
| 405 | They don't care if you live or die. | 他们不在乎你死活 |
| 406 | They don't care what happens to this country. | 他们不在乎这个国家会怎样 |
| 407 | They are interested in building their own profile and there's businesses behind all of this. | 他们很有兴趣建立自己的档案 这一切背后还有企业 |
| 408 | Do you think the severe lack of empathy is a symptom of just being too online? | 你是否认为严重缺乏同情心 是一个症状 只是太在线? |
| 409 | Is that sort of what rips away a lot of our empathy? | 我们的同情心被撕裂了吗? |
| 410 | I think that's probably one of the affects that we'll later recognize as this. | 我想这可能是影响之一 我们以后会认识到这一点。 |
| 411 | But again, you know, we've never had these conditions. | 但是,你知道,我们从来没有过这样的条件。 |
| 412 | We've essentially been thrown on a new planet that we don't know if it has enough oxygen in terms of the Internet | 我们基本上被扔到一个新的星球上, 我们不知道它是否有足够的氧气在互联网上 |
| 413 | and its effects on how we all interact and how we consume information. | 以及它对我们如何互动和如何消耗信息的影响。 |
| 414 | And I think that will be one of the affects. | 我认为这将是影响之一。 |
| 415 | But I think it's really dangerous, just the Internet generally and the environment that we've created. | 但我认为这真的很危险,只是一般的互联网和我们创造的环境. |
| 416 | I think you and I both probably have very irresponsible Internet habits. | 我想你和我都可能有 非常不负责任的互联网习惯。 |
| 417 | I don't think there's at any point is this safe technology that we can responsibly consume. | 我认为我们绝对不能 负责任地消耗这种安全的技术。 |
| 418 | If you're Elon Musk or Sam Altman or Mark Zuckerberg saying it's all good. | 如果你是伊隆·穆斯克或萨姆·阿尔特曼或马克·扎克伯格 说一切都很好 |
| 419 | I think they hate humans. | 我认为他们讨厌人类。 |
| 420 | Do you really? | 真的吗? |
| 421 | Yes. | 对 |
| 422 | No. | 没有 |
| 423 | Yes. | 对 |
| 424 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 425 | Because I think, you know... | 因为我想,你知道... |
| 426 | I mean, they need humans to make money. | 他们需要人类赚钱 |
| 427 | Even to... | 即使是... |
| 428 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 429 | But not anymore. | 但现在不是了 |
| 430 | Now they're building robot slaves. | 现在他们正在制造机器人奴隶 |
| 431 | And so they don't need you, actually. | 所以他们不需要你 |
| 432 | And they're telling you that. | 他们告诉你。 |
| 433 | They're telling you that they're going to replace all the jobs and we actually don't care at all. | 他们告诉你,他们要 取代所有的工作, 我们实际上不在乎。 |
| 434 | If Elon hated humans, why is he trying to make so many babies? | 如果伊隆讨厌人类 为什么他要生这么多孩子? |
| 435 | You know, maybe that's like a Genghis Khan thing. | 你知道,也许这就像成吉思汗的事情。 |
| 436 | But do you actually think... | 但你真的认为... |
| 437 | I mean, what's their problem with humanity? | 我的意思是,他们有什么问题 人性? |
| 438 | When you actually think about them, as much as they... | 当你真正思考他们的时候, 就像他们一样... |
| 439 | You know, Alex Gibney in the documentary calls this like the noble cause effect. | 纪录片中的亚历克斯·吉布尼称这为崇高的事业效应. |
| 440 | Where if you just say it's a noble cause, you can kind of do whatever you want. | 如果你只是说这是崇高的事业 你可以做你想做的事 |
| 441 | And they say that they're doing things for humanity. | 他们说他们是为了人类 |
| 442 | But when you actually listen to them speak, there's not much that they like about humanity. | 但是,当你真正听他们说话的时候, 他们对人性没有多少兴趣。 |
| 443 | They want to optimize everything about us. | 他们想优化我们的一切 |
| 444 | They don't think we do anything well. | 他们不认为我们做什么好。 |
| 445 | They think our outputs are too slow and that, you know, we don't drive well and that might be true for me. | 他们认为我们的产出太慢了 而且,你知道,我们开车不好,这对我来说可能是真的。 |
| 446 | But that we don't do the government well and that we're too slow. | 但是,我们不做政府好,而且我们太慢了. |
| 447 | And then for them to say that the chances that they, because they're the ones running everything, | 然后让他们说,他们的机会, 因为他们是管理一切的人, |
| 448 | the chances that they're going to fuck everything up is 100% we need to go to another planet or the moon. | 他们把一切都搞砸的几率 是100%我们需要去另一个星球或月球。 |
| 449 | I think that is so dystopian and catastrophic. | 我认为,这是如此糟糕和灾难性的。 |
| 450 | And I don't think we have the credit score for the moon or Mars. | 我觉得我们没有月球和火星的得分 |
| 451 | And I have no idea why this is just accepted as some feat of humanity | 我不知道为什么这才被接受为人类的功绩 |
| 452 | that we need to go beyond the stars while our own planet is like actively rejecting us. | 我们需要超越恒星 而我们自己的星球就像积极拒绝我们。 |
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