窒息！BBC传奇采访：一个问题连问12次，内政大臣被逼到崩盘
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | Now Michael Howard is with us in the studio. | 现在迈克尔・霍华德和我们一起在工作室里 |
| 0:02 | Mr. Howard, do you condemn these stories about flowers and dinners and chocolates? | 霍华德先生,你谴责这些关于花 晚餐和巧克力的故事吗? |
| 0:07 | Yes, and they do not come from my campaign team. | 是的,他们不是来自我的竞选团队。 |
| 0:10 | Let me make that absolutely clear. | 让我说清楚 |
| 0:13 | And my understanding is that the journalist who wrote the story in the Daily Mail, to which you have referred, | 我的理解是,在《每日邮报》上写这个故事的记者,你提到的是, |
| 0:18 | has confirmed that he did not speak to anyone in or near my campaign team before he wrote that article. | 在他写这篇文章之前,他没有和我的竞选团队里或附近的任何人交谈。 |
| 0:26 | Clearly they came from somebody sympathetic to you, though. | 显然他们来自同情你的人 |
| 0:28 | Well, not necessarily at all. | 嗯,并不一定。 |
| 0:29 | I have no idea who they came from. | 我不知道他们来自谁 |
| 0:31 | If you look at the article as a whole, it's not a particularly sympathetic piece. | 如果你把文章作为一个整体看,那就不是一个特别有同情心的作品. |
展开字幕全文（123 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Now Michael Howard is with us in the studio. | 现在迈克尔・霍华德和我们一起在工作室里 |
| 2 | Mr. Howard, do you condemn these stories about flowers and dinners and chocolates? | 霍华德先生,你谴责这些关于花 晚餐和巧克力的故事吗? |
| 3 | Yes, and they do not come from my campaign team. | 是的,他们不是来自我的竞选团队。 |
| 4 | Let me make that absolutely clear. | 让我说清楚 |
| 5 | And my understanding is that the journalist who wrote the story in the Daily Mail, to which you have referred, | 我的理解是,在《每日邮报》上写这个故事的记者,你提到的是, |
| 6 | has confirmed that he did not speak to anyone in or near my campaign team before he wrote that article. | 在他写这篇文章之前,他没有和我的竞选团队里或附近的任何人交谈。 |
| 7 | Clearly they came from somebody sympathetic to you, though. | 显然他们来自同情你的人 |
| 8 | Well, not necessarily at all. | 嗯,并不一定。 |
| 9 | I have no idea who they came from. | 我不知道他们来自谁 |
| 10 | If you look at the article as a whole, it's not a particularly sympathetic piece. | 如果你把文章作为一个整体看,那就不是一个特别有同情心的作品. |
| 11 | Would you agree that such stories are cheap and nasty and bring shame on anyone who spreads them? | 你是否同意这种故事是廉价的和下流的,给传播它们的人带来耻辱? |
| 12 | I don't think we should be wasting anybody's time talking about stories like that. | 我觉得我们不应该浪费时间 任何人谈论这样的故事。 |
| 13 | I don't think they should ever have appeared in the public prints, and I don't think we should waste our time talking about them. | 我认为他们不应该出现在公开的印刷品中,我认为我们不应该浪费时间来谈论他们. |
| 14 | There are serious issues to be discussed since they've been raised about the dismissal of Derek Lewis as head of the prison service, | 由于有人提出 德里克·刘易斯被解职为监狱部门负责人 |
| 15 | a decision which I had to take in the light of an independent report, not mentioned in your introduction, | 我不得不根据一份独立报告做出的决定,在你的介绍中没有提到, |
| 16 | which came to the conclusion that there were inexcusable weaknesses in the management of the prison service from top to bottom. | 得出的结论是,监狱管理部门从上到下都存在着不可原谅的弱点。 |
| 17 | 你为什么把Anne Widdicombe 送花给Lewis太太? | |
| 18 | I didn't, as she indeed has just confirmed. | 我没有,正如她刚刚证实的 |
| 19 | She said you were extremely... | 她说你非常... |
| 20 | She said I didn't ball her out. | 她说我没有把她扔出去 |
| 21 | She objected to the words ball out, but she said you were extremely agitated about it. | 她反对把话说出去,但她说你对此非常恼火。 |
| 22 | I thought it was an inappropriate thing to do, given that I had just dismissed Mrs Lewis's husband, | 我认为这是不恰当的事情, 因为我刚刚解雇了刘易斯夫人的丈夫, |
| 23 | but I hope we're not going to spend this interview talking about flowers and things like that. | 但我希望我们不要花这个采访 谈论花和类似的事情。 |
| 24 | Mr Howard, have you ever lied in any public statement? | 霍华德先生,你有没有在任何公开声明中撒谎? |
| 25 | Certainly not. | 当然不会 |
| 26 | I gave a very full account of the dismissal of Derek Lewis to the House of Commons Select Committee | 我非常详细地叙述了 德里克·刘易斯被免去下议院 选委会的职务 |
| 27 | and to the House of Commons itself in a debate that took place. | 和下议院本身 在一次辩论中,发生了。 |
| 28 | There can have been few decisions that have been subjected to more close and minute scrutiny in recent years than that decision. | 最近几年里,几乎没有多少决定受到比该决定更仔细和更细微的审查。 |
| 29 | It was a decision that it was necessary for me to take after terrorists had escaped from Whitemore, | 这是在恐怖分子从怀特摩逃跑后 我不得不做出的决定 |
| 30 | other dangerous prisoners had escaped from Parkhurst, | 其他危险囚犯从帕克赫斯特逃走了 |
| 31 | and an independent report had found that there were serious weaknesses in the management of the prison service from top to bottom. | 一份独立报告发现,监狱管理部门从上到下都存在严重缺陷。 |
| 32 | Is there anything you would wish to change about your statement to the House of Commons | 你想改变你向下议院的陈述吗? |
| 33 | or any other public statement you made about this matter? | 你是否曾就此事发表过任何其他公开声明? |
| 34 | No, nothing. | 没什么 |
| 35 | I gave a full account of what had happened in relation to my decision. | 我详细叙述了与我的决定有关的情况。 |
| 36 | Right. | 对 |
| 37 | Can you help us with this then? | 你能帮我们吗? |
| 38 | You stated in your statement that the Leader of the Opposition had said that I, that is you, personally told Mr Lewis, | 你在声明中说,反对党领袖说,我,即你,亲自告诉刘易斯先生, |
| 39 | the Governor of Parkhurst, should be suspended immediately, that when Mr Lewis objected, as it was an operational matter, | 帕克赫斯特的总督应该立即停职 当刘易斯先生反对的时候 因为这是一个行动事项 |
| 40 | I threatened to instruct him to do it. | 我威胁要他这么做 |
| 41 | Derek Lewis says Howard had certainly told me that the Governor of Parkhurst should be suspended and had threatened to overrule me. | 德里克·刘易斯说霍华德肯定告诉我 帕克赫斯特总督应该停职 并威胁要推翻我 |
| 42 | Are you saying Mr Lewis is lying? | 你是说刘易斯先生在撒谎? |
| 43 | I have given a full account of this and the position is what I told the House of Commons. | 我对此作了充分的阐述,我对下议院所说的话就是立场。 |
| 44 | And let me tell you what the position is. | 让我告诉你情况如何 |
| 45 | So you are saying that Mr Lewis lied. | 你是说刘易斯先生撒谎了 |
| 46 | Let me tell you exactly what the position is. | 让我告诉你确切的位置 |
| 47 | I was entitled to be consulted and I was consulted. | 我有权被咨询 和我被咨询。 |
| 48 | I was entitled to express an opinion, I did express an opinion. | 我有权发表意见,我确实发表了意见。 |
| 49 | I was not entitled to instruct Derek Lewis what to do and I did not instruct him what to do. | 我无权指示Derek Lewis做什么 我没有指示他做什么 |
| 50 | And you will understand and recall that Mr Marriott was not suspended. | 你会明白并记得 马里奥特先生没有被停职 |
| 51 | He was moved and Derek Lewis told the Select Committee of the House of Commons that it was his opinion, | 他被感动了,德里克·刘易斯告诉下议院特设委员会,这是他的意见, |
| 52 | Derek Lewis's opinion, that he should be moved immediately. | 德里克·刘易斯的意见,他应该立即被转移. |
| 53 | That is what happened. | 事情就是这样 |
| 54 | Mr Lewis says I, that is Mr Lewis, told him what we had decided about Marriott and why he, that is you, exploded. | 刘易斯先生说,我,那是刘易斯先生, 告诉他我们的决定 关于万豪,为什么他,即你,爆炸。 |
| 55 | Simply moving the Governor was politically unpalatable. | 仅仅调动总督在政治上是不愉快的。 |
| 56 | It sounded indecisive. | 听起来很不果断 |
| 57 | It would be seen as a fudge. | 它会被看作是软糖。 |
| 58 | If I did not change my mind and suspend Marriott, he would have to consider overruling me. | 如果我不改变主意 暂停Marriott的职务 他会考虑推翻我 |
| 59 | You can't both be right. | 你们不能都对 |
| 60 | Mr Marriott was not suspended. | 马里奥特先生没有被停职。 |
| 61 | I was entitled to express my views, I was entitled to be consulted. | 我有权表达我的观点,我有权被咨询。 |
| 62 | Did you threaten to overrule him? | 你威胁要推翻他? |
| 63 | I was not entitled to instruct Derek Lewis and I did not instruct him. | 我无权指示德里克·刘易斯 我没有指示他 |
| 64 | Did you threaten to overrule him? | 你威胁要推翻他? |
| 65 | The truth of the matter is that Mr Marriott was not suspended. | 事情的真相是 马里奥特先生没有被停职 |
| 66 | Did you threaten to overrule him? | 你威胁要推翻他? |
| 67 | I did not overrule Derek Lewis. | 我没反对德里克·刘易斯 |
| 68 | Did you threaten to overrule him? | 你威胁要推翻他? |
| 69 | I took advice on what I could or could not do and I acted scrupulously in accordance with that advice. | 我接受过关于我能够或不能做什么的建议,我严格按照该建议行事。 |
| 70 | I did not overrule Derek Lewis. | 我没反对德里克·刘易斯 |
| 71 | Did you threaten to overrule him? | 你威胁要推翻他? |
| 72 | Mr Marriott was not suspended. | 马里奥特先生没有被停职。 |
| 73 | Did you threaten to overrule him? | 你威胁要推翻他? |
| 74 | I have accounted for my decision to dismiss Derek Lewis... | 我决定解雇德里克·刘易斯 |
| 75 | Did you threaten to overrule him? | 你威胁要推翻他? |
| 76 | ...in great detail before the House of Commons. | ...在下议院面前非常详细 |
| 77 | I note you're not answering the question whether you threatened to overrule him. | 我注意到你没有回答 你是否威胁要推翻他的问题 |
| 78 | The important aspect of this, which it's very clear to bear in mind... | 这一点的重要方面,这是很清楚的,记住的...... |
| 79 | I'm sorry, I'm going to be frightfully rude, but... | 对不起,我会很无礼,但是... |
| 80 | Yes, you can... | 对,你可以... |
| 81 | You can put the question and I will give you an answer. | 你可以提出问题,我会给你答案。 |
| 82 | Did you threaten to overrule him? | 你威胁要推翻他? |
| 83 | I discussed this matter with Derek Lewis. | 我和德里克·刘易斯谈过了 |
| 84 | I gave him the benefit of my opinion. | 我给了他我的意见 |
| 85 | I gave him the benefit of my opinion in strong language. | 我用强硬的语言给了他我的意见 |
| 86 | But I did not instruct him because I was not entitled to instruct him. | 但我没有指示他,因为我无权指示他。 |
| 87 | I was entitled to express my opinion and that is what I did. | 我有权表达我的意见,这就是我所做的。 |
| 88 | With respect, that is not answering the question of whether you threatened to overrule him. | 恕我直言,这不是回答你是否威胁要推翻他的问题。 |
| 89 | It's dealing with the relevant point, which is what I was entitled to do and what I was not entitled to do. | 它处理的是相关的观点,这就是我有权做,我无权做. |
| 90 | And I have dealt with this in detail before the House of Commons and before the Select Committee. | 我已经在下议院和特别委员会详细处理了这个问题。 |
| 91 | With respect, you haven't answered the question of whether you threatened to overrule him. | 恕我直言,你还没回答 你是否威胁要推翻他的问题 |
| 92 | Well, you see, the question is what was I entitled to do and what was I not entitled to do. | 问题是 我有权做什么 而我无权做什么 |
| 93 | I was not entitled to instruct him and I did not do that. | 我无权指示他 我没有这么做 |
| 94 | We'll leave that aspect there and move on to this question of your bid for the leadership of the party. | 我们把这个方面留在那里,接着谈你争取党的领导权的问题. |
| 95 | Wouldn't a reasonable person conclude that someone who is unable even to unify a very small ministerial team | 一个理性的人不会认为 一个甚至无法统一 一个非常小的部长团队的人 |
| 96 | in less than two weeks of losing office is quite incapable of unifying a party? | 在不到两周的失职 完全不能统一党? |
| 97 | I think that there will be many of my colleagues who will understand | 我认为我的许多同事会理解 |
| 98 | that we have to take some tough decisions if we are to recover the fortunes of our party. | 如果我们要夺回我们党的财富,我们必须做出一些艰难的决定。 |
| 99 | And if you are to take tough decisions, that means that you won't always be able to obtain unanimous agreement. | 如果你要做出艰难的决定, 这意味着你不会总是能够获得一致的同意。 |
| 100 | I had to overrule Anne Widdecombe on the question of the dismissal of Derek Lewis | 关于德里克·刘易斯被解职的问题 我不得不推翻安妮·维德康贝 |
| 101 | in the light of an independent report which said that there were serious weaknesses | 根据一份独立报告,该报告指出存在严重弱点, |
| 102 | in the management of the prison service from top to bottom. | 从上到下管理监狱事务。 |
| 103 | And I was prepared to take that decision. | 我准备做这个决定。 |
| 104 | It was not an easy decision to take | 这不是一个容易的决定 |
| 105 | because I thought it was my duty to take that decision in the interest of the public. | 因为我认为我有责任为了公众的利益作出这一决定。 |
| 106 | If the rest of your ministerial team failed to come out and support you for the leadership, | 如果你的部长团队的其他成员没有出来支持你的领导 |
| 107 | would you then be prepared to concede that you perhaps don't have the capability of unifying your party? | 你是否愿意承认 你也许没有统一党的能力? |
| 108 | Well, the minister who has worked longest and closest with me for a period of five years, | 那个跟我工作了五年的部长 |
| 109 | both at the Department of the Environment and the Home Office, | 环境部和内政部, |
| 110 | is one of my strongest supporters and a leading member of my campaign team. | 我最坚定的支持者之一 也是我竞选团队的主要成员 |
| 111 | Other ministers who have worked very closely with me are strong supporters and in my campaign team. | 与我密切合作的其他部长都是我的坚定支持者和竞选团队。 |
| 112 | My two PPSs that I have had during the time that I have been Home Secretary | 我在担任内政大臣期间的两个PPS |
| 113 | are strong supporters of mine and in my campaign team. | 我和我的竞选团队的坚定支持者 |
| 114 | So I think if you look at most of those who have worked very closely with me, | 所以,我想如果你看看 大多数人 谁已经与我非常密切的工作, |
| 115 | you will find that they are amongst my strongest supporters. | 你会发现他们是我最坚定的支持者之一 |
| 116 | Do you seriously expect to be leader of your party? | 你真的想当党魁吗? |
| 117 | I think that those in the party who will understand that there is a need for tough decisions to be taken | 我认为党内那些会理解需要做出艰难决定的人 |
| 118 | will see that I have taken those tough decisions. | 将看到,我已经做出这些艰难的决定。 |
| 119 | I have never shirked the responsibility for taking those decisions | 我从未逃避过做出这些决定的责任 |
| 120 | and I think that that is something which they will take very seriously into account | 我认为这是他们会非常认真考虑的 |
| 121 | when they come to make their decisions. | 当他们来做决定的时候 |
| 122 | Michael Howard, thank you. | 迈克尔・霍华德,谢谢你。 |
| 123 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
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