6-30 霍尔木兹海峡到底有多“开放”？ | BBC全球新闻
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | Welcome to the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. | 欢迎收看英国广播公司世界服务的全球新闻播客。 |
| 0:03 | I'm Will Chalk. | 我是威尔・查尔克 |
| 0:05 | Well, today we're looking at the Strait of Hormuz and exactly what the situation is | 今天我们正研究霍尔木兹海峡 情况到底是什么 |
| 0:08 | there right now. | 就现在 |
| 0:09 | We're joined by John Donnison, our correspondent in Jerusalem. | 我们在耶路撒冷的记者约翰·唐尼森也加入了我们. |
| 0:13 | So, John, we've seen the US and Iran exchange strikes again over the weekend. | 约翰,我们周末又看到美国和伊朗的交流罢工了 |
| 0:19 | And at the heart of it was the fact that Iran struck a cargo ship in the Strait of | 其核心是伊朗袭击了伊朗海峡的一艘货船。 |
| 0:23 | Hormuz because it said it was taking the wrong route. | Hormuz 因为它说它走错了路 |
| 0:26 | So, John, let's talk about those routes through the Strait of Hormuz. | 所以,约翰,让我们谈谈那些路线 通过霍尔木兹海峡。 |
| 0:29 | Then why are they so important? | 那为什么他们这么重要? |
展开字幕全文（130 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Welcome to the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. | 欢迎收看英国广播公司世界服务的全球新闻播客。 |
| 2 | I'm Will Chalk. | 我是威尔・查尔克 |
| 3 | Well, today we're looking at the Strait of Hormuz and exactly what the situation is | 今天我们正研究霍尔木兹海峡 情况到底是什么 |
| 4 | there right now. | 就现在 |
| 5 | We're joined by John Donnison, our correspondent in Jerusalem. | 我们在耶路撒冷的记者约翰·唐尼森也加入了我们. |
| 6 | So, John, we've seen the US and Iran exchange strikes again over the weekend. | 约翰,我们周末又看到美国和伊朗的交流罢工了 |
| 7 | And at the heart of it was the fact that Iran struck a cargo ship in the Strait of | 其核心是伊朗袭击了伊朗海峡的一艘货船。 |
| 8 | Hormuz because it said it was taking the wrong route. | Hormuz 因为它说它走错了路 |
| 9 | So, John, let's talk about those routes through the Strait of Hormuz. | 所以,约翰,让我们谈谈那些路线 通过霍尔木兹海峡。 |
| 10 | Then why are they so important? | 那为什么他们这么重要? |
| 11 | Well, look, what America wants out of this deal is for the Strait to fully reopen. | 听着,美国想从这笔交易中解脱出来 是让海峡重新全面开放 |
| 12 | And that was clearly a priority of President Trump, given the damage that | 这显然是特朗普总统的优先事项,因为损害 |
| 13 | its closure has done to the global economy. | 它的关闭对全球经济造成了影响。 |
| 14 | It's meant higher energy prices, higher petrol prices, global inflation, higher | 这意味着能源价格上涨,汽油价格上涨,全球通货膨胀上升 |
| 15 | interest rates. | 利率。 |
| 16 | So it has really affected the amount of money in people's pockets for | 所以这真的影响了人们口袋里的钱 |
| 17 | billions of people around the world. | 百亿世界众生. |
| 18 | However, what Iran wants is to administer how that reopening happens. | 然而,伊朗想要的是管理如何重新开放。 |
| 19 | And what's been happening, according to the Iranians, is the Americans have been | 据伊朗人说,美国一直 |
| 20 | routing ships closer to Amman, which is on the other side of the Strait of Hormuz | 靠近位于霍尔木兹海峡另一边的安曼的航线船只 |
| 21 | from Iran. | 来自伊朗。 |
| 22 | And the Iranians say that's not acceptable. | 伊朗人说这是不可接受的。 |
| 23 | They want to be deciding the route that they say was set out in this memorandum of | 他们想决定他们所说的 这份备忘录规定的路线 |
| 24 | understanding. | 谅解 |
| 25 | And essentially, they want to control who goes in and out. | 基本上,他们想控制谁进出。 |
| 26 | But you used the phrase that the Strait of Hormuz is open. | 但你用了霍尔木兹海峡是开放的短语. |
| 27 | How open actually is it? | 到底有多开放? |
| 28 | Because traffic is nowhere near, is it, the levels it was before this all started? | 因为交通远未接近, 是不是, 在这一切开始之前的水平? |
| 29 | No. | 没有 |
| 30 | So before the war, there were around about 130 ships, so tankers, cargo ships | 所以在战前,大约有130艘船, 所以油轮,货船 |
| 31 | passing through the Strait of Hormuz every day. | 每天通过霍尔木兹海峡. |
| 32 | Twenty per cent of the world's oil passes through the Strait of Hormuz. | 世界20%的石油经过霍尔木兹海峡. |
| 33 | Now, we know that since the memorandum of understanding was announced two weeks | 现在,我们知道,自从 谅解备忘录宣布两个星期 |
| 34 | ago, we think around 200 ships have passed out in total. | 我们估计共有200艘船晕倒了 |
| 35 | So nowhere near those pre-war levels. | 离战前的水平很近 |
| 36 | And there are still hundreds of ships stranded in the Strait of Hormuz. | 而霍尔木兹海峡仍有数百艘船搁浅. |
| 37 | Sailors on boards have been there for months. | 船上的水手已经在那里几个月了 |
| 38 | They're desperate to get out. | 他们急着要出去 |
| 39 | And despite America's efforts to get ships moving, that hasn't really happened. | 尽管美国努力让船只出动,但并没有真正发生. |
| 40 | And quite a high proportion of the ships that have been allowed to leave | 还有相当一部分船只被允许离开 |
| 41 | have been carrying Iranian oil, because one of the key concessions that the | 伊朗石油的运送,因为伊朗石油公司是伊朗石油公司的主要特许权之一。 |
| 42 | Iranians got out of this memorandum of understanding was the lifting of oil | 伊朗人从这份谅解备忘录中脱颖而出 是提油 |
| 43 | sanctions on a temporary basis on Iranian oil. | 暂时制裁伊朗石油。 |
| 44 | And that will allow the Iranians to get billions of dollars back into their | 这将使伊朗人 得到数十亿美元回到他们的 |
| 45 | economy, which has been hit incredibly hard, of course, by sanctions for years now. | 当然,多年来经济受到制裁的沉重打击。 |
| 46 | I know there has been so much discussion about what the aims of this war were, | 我知道关于这场战争的目的, 有很多讨论, |
| 47 | what it's achieved from a US perspective. | 从美国的角度来说,它的成就。 |
| 48 | Is it fair to say that one thing it definitely has achieved is almost woken | 说它确实实现的一件事 是否公平? |
| 49 | Iran up to what incredible bargaining power its blockades of the strait can have? | 伊朗对海峡的封锁能够拥有多少令人难以置信的谈判能力? |
| 50 | Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head there. | 是的,我想你撞到了头部的钉子 |
| 51 | And I think what we've seen over the weekend where we've had Iran carrying out | 我想我们周末所看到的 让伊朗执行 |
| 52 | drone strikes on tank, as it's said, have strayed out of the shipping lane that | 有人说,无人机对坦克的打击 已经偏离了航道 |
| 53 | they want, is Iran exercising that leverage, which it now knows it has. | 他们想要的是,伊朗正在发挥这种杠杆作用,它现在知道它已经发挥了这种作用。 |
| 54 | So one of the questions that's still to be decided when this broader deal is | 所以,一个有待决定的问题 当这个更广泛的交易是 |
| 55 | concluded, and we've got like a 60-day ceasefire period supposedly now to | 结束了,我们有一个 像60天停火期 现在应该 |
| 56 | negotiate that broader deal, is will it go back to the status quo as it was before | 谈判这个更广泛的交易,是它会回到以前的现状 |
| 57 | the war, when there were no tolls for passing through the strait of Hormuz, or | 战争,当时没有通行霍尔穆兹海峡的通行费,或 |
| 58 | will Iran start to begin imposing tolls? | 伊朗是否会开始造成损失? |
| 59 | And we've had different messages from the Iranians over the past few weeks, but | 过去几周我们收到伊朗人不同的消息 但是 |
| 60 | certainly, they have said that things will not go back to the status quo before | 当然,他们说,事情不会回到以前的状况 |
| 61 | the war. | 战争 |
| 62 | So, you know, that is quite a major loss for the United States and, | 所以,你知道, 这是一个相当重大的损失 美国和, |
| 63 | frankly, the global economy. | 坦率地说,全球经济。 |
| 64 | In terms of a ceasefire more generally in the hopes for a permanent deal to be | 就更普遍的停火而言,希望达成一项永久协议 |
| 65 | 除非Hormuz海峡问题 | |
| 66 | conclusively sorted out? | 最终解决了? |
| 67 | Well, look, the reopening of the strait was clearly a priority for the Americans. | 重新开放海峡显然是美国人的优先考虑 |
| 68 | It was only really the big achievement of this memorandum of understanding because | 这仅仅是这个谅解备忘录的重大成就,因为 |
| 69 | all the other more difficult issues, Iran's nuclear program, its support for | 所有其他更困难的问题,伊朗的核计划,伊朗对 |
| 70 | proxy groups such as Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza, were not resolved. | 黎巴嫩真主党和加沙哈马斯等代理团体没有解决。 |
| 71 | Neither was the issue of its ballistic missile program. | 其弹道导弹计划的问题也不是。 |
| 72 | So, you know, if this deal is going to progress, then the strait has got to | 所以,你知道,如果这个交易要取得进展, 那么海峡必须 |
| 73 | reopen. | 重新打开。 |
| 74 | And I do think that on both sides, both the Americans and the | 我确实认为 无论是美国人还是美国人 |
| 75 | Iranians, there is no real appetite to resume a full scale war. | 伊朗人,没有恢复全面战争的真正愿望。 |
| 76 | This has been a very unpopular war in the United States. | 这是一场在美国非常不受欢迎的战争. |
| 77 | President Trump has, of course, got crucial midterm congressional elections | 当然,特朗普总统获得了至关重要的国会中期选举 |
| 78 | coming up for his Republican Party. | 来参加他的共和党 |
| 79 | Later in the year, in November, polls show the war has not been a winner for | 11月的民调显示 这场战争并没有赢得 |
| 80 | them and they've been losing support, the Republican Party. | 他们一直失去支持 共和党 |
| 81 | And also for the Iranians, of course, well, they have been absolutely pounded | 当然,对于伊朗人来说, 他们被彻底击败了 |
| 82 | by US and Israeli military. | 美国和以色列军方 |
| 83 | So there is no real appetite for them to resume the war either, but they are both | 所以他们也没有恢复战争的胃口 但是他们都是 |
| 84 | trying to get the best deal they can out for it for themselves. | 试图得到最好的交易 他们可以出来为自己。 |
| 85 | So if we keep seeing skirmishes, escalations in violence like this, you | 所以,如果我们继续看到 冲突,升级 暴力像这样,你 |
| 86 | could see the deal begin to unravel, although we're hearing that now an | 虽然我们听说现在 |
| 87 | agreement has been made by both the United States and Iran to try and stand | 美国和伊朗都同意尝试并坚持 |
| 88 | down from their military positions to allow shipping to resume. | 离开他们的军事阵地 以便恢复运输 |
| 89 | We'll have to see what happens in the next few days and weeks. | 后数日及数周得见其事. |
| 90 | Now, of course, John, this isn't just about Iran and the US. | 当然 约翰 这不仅仅是伊朗和美国的事 |
| 91 | There is Israel and Lebanon to be concerned with as well. | 以色列和黎巴嫩也值得关注。 |
| 92 | So how much more complicated does that make this? | 那这又有多复杂? |
| 93 | Well, it's a big potential complication. | 嗯,这是一个巨大的潜在的复杂。 |
| 94 | Iran has insisted that Lebanon must be part of this broader deal with the United | 伊朗坚持认为,黎巴嫩必须参与这一与联合国的更广泛交易。 |
| 95 | States, but Israeli troops continue to occupy a large chunk of southern Lebanon, | 国家,但以色列部队继续占领着大片黎巴嫩南部, |
| 96 | about five percent of the country. | 大约全国的5%。 |
| 97 | And in recent weeks, despite supposedly there being a ceasefire, fighting has | 最近几周,尽管据说停火,但战斗已经 |
| 98 | continued there between Hezbollah and Israel. | 真主党和以色列之间继续在那里活动。 |
| 99 | And of course, Hezbollah have never signed up to any sort of ceasefire. | 当然,真主党从未签署任何停火协议。 |
| 100 | The ceasefire was done by the Lebanese government and the Israelis. | 停火是由黎巴嫩政府和以色列人完成的。 |
| 101 | So, you know, that also has the potential to see these talks unravel. | 所以,你知道,这也有可能看到这些会谈破裂。 |
| 102 | Now, since the end of last week, we have seen a bit of a de-escalation in | 现在,自上周末以来,我们已经看到一些降级 |
| 103 | violence in southern Lebanon. | 黎巴嫩南部的暴力。 |
| 104 | But as I say, Israeli forces continue to remain there. | 但是,正如我所说的,以色列部队继续留在那里。 |
| 105 | And while they do, that is completely unacceptable to Hezbollah. | 真主党完全不能接受。 |
| 106 | It is going to be difficult to keep a lid on the conflict there too. | 也很难掩盖那里的冲突。 |
| 107 | And the Israelis have stressed over the weekend that they have no intention of | 以色列人在周末强调,他们无意 |
| 108 | withdrawing their forces from southern Lebanon. | 从黎巴嫩南部撤出部队。 |
| 109 | So it's another factor in what is a very complex regional conflict. | 因此,这是一个非常复杂的区域冲突的另一个因素。 |
| 110 | This all shows, doesn't it, just how complicated this is. | 这一切都显示,不是吗, 只是这是多么复杂。 |
| 111 | You mentioned 60 days to do it. | 你说过要花60天时间来做 |
| 112 | I mean, what are the hopes for these talks? | 这些会谈有什么希望? |
| 113 | What are the next steps for them as well? | 下一步对它们也是什么措施? |
| 114 | Well, just a short while ago, President Trump has put out on social media that | 不久前,特朗普总统在社交媒体上发表 |
| 115 | talks will resume in Doha in the Gulf on Tuesday. | 星期二将在海湾多哈恢复会谈。 |
| 116 | I've not seen confirmation that the Iranians are going to attend. | 我还没确认伊朗人会出席 |
| 117 | We've had announcement of talks taking place, negotiations taking place before, | 我们已经宣布谈判正在进行 谈判在之前, |
| 118 | and then they haven't actually materialised. | 然后他们还没有真正实现。 |
| 119 | So let's wait and see if that happens. | 所以,让我们等待,看看是否发生。 |
| 120 | As I say though, all the really difficult issues, and | 正如我所说 所有真正困难的问题 |
| 121 | we've barely talked about that today, notably Iran's nuclear programme, | 我们今天几乎没有谈论过这一点, 特别是伊朗的核计划, |
| 122 | which was the whole reason or certainly the biggest reason for | 这是整个原因 或肯定最大的原因 |
| 123 | which Israel and the United States said they were going to war, | 以色列和美国说他们要去打仗, |
| 124 | to dismantle Iran's nuclear ambitions. | 摧毁伊朗的核野心 |
| 125 | Well, that hasn't been resolved at all. | 嗯,这还没有解决。 |
| 126 | And we've only got initially 60 days to do it. | 而我们最初只有60天的时间去做。 |
| 127 | So we're making pretty small steps at the moment with quite a few setbacks on the way too. | 因此,我们现在正在迈出相当小的步子, 路上也有一些挫折。 |
| 128 | Thanks, John. | 谢谢 约翰 |
| 129 | That is John Donnison, our correspondent in Jerusalem there. | 这是约翰·唐尼森,我们在耶路撒冷的记者 |
| 130 | If you want to hear more from the Global News podcast, click on the link below. | 如果您想从全球新闻播客那里听到更多信息, 请点击下面的链接 。 |
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