【牛津辩论】欧洲应建立统一军队吗？
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:07 | Right without further ado, I would like to invite our chief of staff Lily to the floor to open the case for a side proposition | 我想请我们的参谋长Lily发言, 提出一个附带建议。 |
| 0:18 | Madam president ladies and gentlemen of the house. | 总统女士们,先生们 |
| 0:21 | Good evening | 边 |
| 0:22 | Thank you for the opportunity to speak here tonight on the motion and to be heard together with all of you | 谢谢你今晚有机会在这里就动议发言,与大家一起发言 |
| 0:28 | Here we are in this glorious and magnificent chamber that is safe from bullets bombs and drone strikes | 我们身处这个光荣而宏伟的房间里 不受子弹和无人机袭击 |
| 0:34 | But to my fellow members of the house, especially to my opposition | 但对于我的同僚们,尤其是我的反对者 |
| 0:39 | I must inform you of the graveness of our current situation | 我必须告诉你我们目前情况的严重性 |
| 0:43 | We find ourselves drawn into a calculated struggle for power in the West not through open conflict yet | 我们发现自己陷入了一场精心策划的争夺西方权力的斗争中,还没有通过公开的冲突呢 |
| 0:49 | But through hesitation and neglect | 但通过犹豫和忽视 |
| 0:52 | The sovereignty we once took for granted has been weakened by our failure to heed warnings and to wield together | 我们曾经认为理所当然的主权被削弱,因为我们没有听从警告,没有共同行使 |
展开字幕全文（1210 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Right without further ado, I would like to invite our chief of staff Lily to the floor to open the case for a side proposition | 我想请我们的参谋长Lily发言, 提出一个附带建议。 |
| 2 | Madam president ladies and gentlemen of the house. | 总统女士们,先生们 |
| 3 | Good evening | 边 |
| 4 | Thank you for the opportunity to speak here tonight on the motion and to be heard together with all of you | 谢谢你今晚有机会在这里就动议发言,与大家一起发言 |
| 5 | Here we are in this glorious and magnificent chamber that is safe from bullets bombs and drone strikes | 我们身处这个光荣而宏伟的房间里 不受子弹和无人机袭击 |
| 6 | But to my fellow members of the house, especially to my opposition | 但对于我的同僚们,尤其是我的反对者 |
| 7 | I must inform you of the graveness of our current situation | 我必须告诉你我们目前情况的严重性 |
| 8 | We find ourselves drawn into a calculated struggle for power in the West not through open conflict yet | 我们发现自己陷入了一场精心策划的争夺西方权力的斗争中,还没有通过公开的冲突呢 |
| 9 | But through hesitation and neglect | 但通过犹豫和忽视 |
| 10 | The sovereignty we once took for granted has been weakened by our failure to heed warnings and to wield together | 我们曾经认为理所当然的主权被削弱,因为我们没有听从警告,没有共同行使 |
| 11 | The collective power Europe already possesses | 欧洲已经拥有的集体力量 |
| 12 | Before I begin the formal proposition. | 在我开始正式提议之前 |
| 13 | It is my honor and privilege to introduce the opposition speakers to you this evening | 我很荣幸今晚能向你们介绍 反对派发言人 |
| 14 | First Leo Marinopoulos | 第一任利奥·马里诺普洛斯 |
| 15 | He is a second-year PPE student at University College and I'm told by very credible sources that Leo got a haircut two days | 他是大学学院的二年级个人防护设备学生 我从非常可靠的消息来源得知里欧理发两天 |
| 16 | Ago, so you would look good for YouTube bad decision | Ago,这样你才能看好YouTube的坏决定 |
| 17 | His friends say that Leo came into PPE thinking he was going to save the world | 他的朋友说里欧进来 以为他会拯救世界 |
| 18 | I'd like to wish him all the best at Goldman Sachs this summer | 我祝他今年夏天在高盛 一切顺利 |
| 19 | Then we have Anthony Gardner a lawyer diplomat academic and former ambassador to the EU | 安东尼・加德纳是一位外交律师 前驻欧盟大使 |
| 20 | With decades of experience analyzing European cooperation, we are very excited to hear why after all that study | 有数十年的欧洲合作分析经验,我们非常兴奋地听到为什么经过这些研究 |
| 21 | He still believes it shouldn't quite work in practice | 他仍然认为这在实践上并不可行 |
| 22 | Lastly, we have Hans Deepak a second-year history and politics student competitive debater and secretary of the Oxford strategic studies group | 最后,我们有汉斯·迪帕克 第二年的历史和政治学生竞争辩论 和牛津战略研究小组的秘书 |
| 23 | If Europeans security ever faces a threat rest assured Hans will be there but just to draft the agenda | 如果欧洲人的安全面临威胁,汉斯肯定会在那里 但只是起草议程 |
| 24 | Madam president these are your guests and they are most certainly welcome | 总统夫人,这是你的客人,当然欢迎 |
| 25 | members of this house | 本院成员 |
| 26 | No longer do we live in an era of isolated incidents? | 我们不再生活在孤立事件时代了吗? |
| 27 | We live in a continent where a spark in the East becomes a wildfire in the West | 我们生活在一个大陆 东方的火花变成西方的野火 |
| 28 | Whether it is a cyber attacked on a grid until in or a missile strike in the Donbass | 无论是网络攻击,还是导弹攻击 |
| 29 | The threat is no longer theirs or ours. | 威胁不再是他们或我们的威胁。 |
| 30 | It is simply Europe's | 这只是欧洲的 |
| 31 | The opposition will cling to the map of 1945 | 反对派将坚守1945年的地图 |
| 32 | But modern warfare has no use for passports. | 但现代战争对护照没有用. |
| 33 | We are already standing on a borderless battlefield cyber vulnerability | 我们已经站在无边界的战场上 网络脆弱 |
| 34 | vulnerabilities energy blackmail and | 能源讹诈 |
| 35 | Hyperaggression do not stop for customs. | 高压攻击不会因为海关而停止。 |
| 36 | They cheat our 27 nations as a single unified target | 他们欺骗我们27个国家 成为一个统一的目标 |
| 37 | We must stop pretending that our security can be compartmentalized | 我们必须停止假装 我们的安全可以被分割 |
| 38 | We share a continent we share a market in the events of the last four years have shown we all share the same destiny | 我们共享一个大陆,在过去四年的事件中我们共享一个市场,这表明我们大家有着同样的命运。 |
| 39 | To have 27 different responses to one single looming threat is not sovereignty. | 对一个迫在眉睫的威胁作出27种不同的反应并不是主权。 |
| 40 | It is a recipe for collective failure | 这是集体失败的秘方 |
| 41 | Europe is standing face to face with the threats of the 21st century yet armed with an outdated 20th century defense structure | 欧洲正面对21世纪的威胁 却带着过时的20世纪防御结构 |
| 42 | For 75 years the United States has considered Europe security one of its top priorities | 75年来,美国一直认为欧洲安全是其最高优先事项之一。 |
| 43 | That is no longer the case | 已经不是了 |
| 44 | The newly issued 2026 US national defense strategy has labeled Europe a secondary theater | 新发布的2026年美国国防战略 将欧洲列为二级剧院 |
| 45 | The old model of solely outsourcing the security to NATO no longer serves the purposes of the European continent | 仅将安保外包给北约的旧模式不再符合欧洲大陆的宗旨。 |
| 46 | Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shattered the illusion that conventional war is a relic cyber attacks do not stop at borders | 俄罗斯对乌克兰的入侵粉碎了传统战争是一种遗迹的网络攻击的幻觉,不能停留在边境上 |
| 47 | Terrorism does not wait for votes in meetings | 恐怖主义不等待会议表决 |
| 48 | Yet in response to these shared threats Europe persists with almost 30 nationally separate armed forces | 然而,为了应对这些共同的威胁,欧洲仍然有近30支国家独立的武装部队 |
| 49 | 27 different systems and 27 logistics chains | 27个不同的系统和27个物流链 |
| 50 | It does not add up to collective strength it adds up to duplication delay independence | 它不等于集体力量,而是重复拖延独立性。 |
| 51 | Europe currently spends nearly 400 billion on defense | 欧洲目前花在国防上将近4000亿美元 |
| 52 | Nominally more than Russia and comparable to other major powers yet with far less turn and capability | 名义上比俄罗斯还多,与其他大国相当,但转弯和能力却远远低于俄罗斯 |
| 53 | Not to mention Europe operates more than a dozen different types of main battle tanks while the United States relies on a single core | 更别提欧洲运营了十几种不同类型的主战坦克 而美国依赖于单一核心 |
| 54 | platform | 平台 |
| 55 | Europe is paying a 50 billion annual sovereignty tax for the privilege of being inefficient a | 欧洲每年缴纳500亿美元的主权税 以换取效率低下的特权 |
| 56 | Europe unable to produce its own weapons at scale cannot defend its people | 欧洲无法大规模生产自己的武器,无法保卫其人民 |
| 57 | Only if European nations come together can it become its own gun store be its own protector and secure its own future | 只有欧洲国家团结起来,它才能成为自己的枪库,成为自己的保护者,确保自己的未来。 |
| 58 | Alas the opposition will tell you that unified command is a pipe dream | 唉,反对派会告诉你 统一指挥是一个烟斗梦 |
| 59 | They will tell you just too complex for 27 nations to share a trigger, but I asked them this | 他们会告诉你太复杂了 27个国家无法分享触发器 但我问他们 |
| 60 | What about the European sky shield led by Germany and now joined by nearly 20 nations? | 由德国领导,现在有近20个国家加入的欧洲天空盾呢? |
| 61 | We are already building an integrated European air and missile defense architecture | 我们已经在建造一个欧洲空中和导弹防御结构 |
| 62 | We are already integrating German and other countries tech into a single defensive ceiling if we can trust each other to defend the very air | 我们已经把德国和其他国家的技术整合成一个单一的防御天花板 如果我们能互相信任 来保卫空气 |
| 63 | We breathe why would it be to some that we cannot trust each other to defend the ground we stand on | 我们呼吸,为什么我们不能信任一些人来捍卫我们所站的地面? |
| 64 | The sky shield proves that integration isn't a federalist fantasy. | 天盾证明融合不是联邦主义的幻想. |
| 65 | It is indeed an engineering and strategic reality that is already happening | 这确实是已经发生的工程和战略现实 |
| 66 | We don't need to invent a unified army. | 我们不需要发明统一的军队. |
| 67 | We just need the courage to finish what we've already started | 我们只需要勇气完成我们已经开始的工作 |
| 68 | Now the opposition may also say Europe does not need a unified army because of NATO | 现在反对派可能也说欧洲不需要统一的军队 因为北约 |
| 69 | They will say diplomacy is where our resources should be applied, but I asked the house this simple question | 他们会说,外交是我们应该运用资源的地方, 但我问家里一个简单的问题 |
| 70 | How did that work out for Europe with Ukraine in 2022? | 2022年欧洲与乌克兰的情况如何? |
| 71 | Let us be honest the United States has carried the greater share of military support for Ukraine while Europe has contributed more financially | 老实说,美国为乌克兰提供了更大的军事支持,而欧洲则提供了更多的财政支持。 |
| 72 | Europe does not lack money or industry. | 欧洲并不缺乏资金或工业。 |
| 73 | It just refuses to pull resources together | 它只是拒绝整合资源 |
| 74 | Fragmented we are hesitating | 我们犹豫不决 |
| 75 | United we would not need to wait for Washington to act first | 联合起来 我们不需要等华盛顿先行动 |
| 76 | Ukraine has become Europe's most combat tested force not in isolation | 乌克兰成为欧洲最受战斗考验的力量 并非孤立无援 |
| 77 | But through a unified command that absorbed allied intelligence | 但通过统一指挥吸收了盟军的情报 |
| 78 | Technology and weapons faster than our own bureaucracies can coordinate even just a response a | 技术和武器比我们自己的官僚机构 能够更快地协调 |
| 79 | Unified European army does not mean abolishing national identity at all | 统一的欧洲军队完全不意味着取消民族身份 |
| 80 | It means providing the iron shield that allows those identities to even survive | 这意味着提供铁盾 可以让这些身份生存下来 |
| 81 | Tonight my friends you're just not just voting for a policy. | 今晚我的朋友 你不只是投票支持政策 |
| 82 | You're voting on a fundamental question of identity | 你对一个基本的身份问题投票 |
| 83 | Is Europe a project of the past or a power of the future? | 欧洲是过去的项目还是未来的力量? |
| 84 | The opposition will invite you to cling to the 20th century | 反对派会邀请你坚持20世纪 |
| 85 | They speak of sovereignty as if it were a museum piece something to be polished and guarded rather than a muscle to be used | 他们把主权说成是博物馆的作品 而不是肌肉 |
| 86 | They ask you to choose the comfort of the status quo | 他们要求你选择现状的舒适度 |
| 87 | But the status quo is a luxury we can no longer afford | 但现状是我们再也负担不起的奢侈品 |
| 88 | Well, we debate in the safety of this chamber the Pax Americana that sheltered our ancestors being packed into the crates in Washington | 我们为了这个房间的安全而辩论 保护祖先的美国和平会 被安置在华盛顿的箱子里 |
| 89 | Destined for the Pacific the umbrella is closing if we leave this house tonight and vote against this motion | 如果今晚我们离开这个房子 投票反对这个动议 太平洋的命运就要关闭了 |
| 90 | We are voting for continued fragmentation that was billions of taxpayers money | 我们投票支持持续支离破碎 这是数十亿纳税人的钱 |
| 91 | Continued reliance on the political whims of foreign capitals and continued weakness in an era of Giants | 继续依赖外国首都的政治冲动和巨人时代的持续疲软 |
| 92 | We do not build a united army because we seek war we build us that no one dares to even start one | 我们不建立统一的军队,因为我们寻求战争 我们建设我们,没有人敢发起一个 |
| 93 | We build us that when our grandchildren look back at 2026 they can see a continent that finally chose to defend its own house | 我们建造我们,当我们的孙子们回顾2026年时,他们可以看到一个大陆,终于选择保卫自己的家园. |
| 94 | The 27 glorious shields of Europe can no longer stand divided | 欧洲的27块光荣的盾牌 不能再分裂了 |
| 95 | The status quo is no longer an option the time for hesitation is over | 现状不再是一个选择 犹豫的时间结束了 |
| 96 | It is time for united European army for effectiveness for autonomy for credibility | 现在该是欧洲军队联合起来有效实现自主和信誉的时候了。 |
| 97 | And most of all for peace I urge all members of this house to support this motion. | 最重要的是为了和平,我敦促本院所有成员支持这项动议。 |
| 98 | Thank you | 谢谢 |
| 99 | Thank you, Lily for your speech next. | 谢谢你 Lily 接下来的演讲 |
| 100 | I would like to call upon Leo to deliver his opening speech for a side opposition | 我想请李奥发表他的开幕词 一个侧面反对派 |
| 101 | The history of Europe is littered with the corpses of division | 欧洲的历史充满了分裂的尸体 |
| 102 | Two world wars later | 两次世界大战之后 |
| 103 | We are asked a question | 有人问我们一个问题 |
| 104 | Should we devolve our defense to a continent that for far too long has hemmed and hawed as the blood flowed in? | 我们是否应该把防御工作转移到一个血流成河的大陆? |
| 105 | Srebrenica and in too many other places with this European army | 斯雷布雷尼察和其他太多地方 有这支欧洲军队 |
| 106 | It is only when the bodies are cold that anything will be done a European army is | 只有在身体寒冷时,欧洲军队才会做任何事 |
| 107 | Disappointment served with the honey platitudes of unity that you just heard from that speaker and in defense delay is not a cost | 失望是因为你刚刚听到那个演讲人讲的 团结的花言巧语 在防御上拖延不是代价 |
| 108 | Delay is a death sentence two substantive points that you will hear from me tonight | 拖延是死刑 两个实质性的要点 你今晚会听到 |
| 109 | firstly that the European army would be a violation of European sovereignty and | 首先,欧洲军队将侵犯欧洲主权, |
| 110 | Second that it would weaken the EU strongest alliance that with the United States | 其次,它将削弱欧盟与美国最强大的联盟。 |
| 111 | But before that it falls upon me with great pleasure to introduce the speakers of the proposition | 但在此之前,我非常高兴地向大家介绍这个提议 |
| 112 | Now you just heard from miss Rousey an exchange student who usually attends a small little known liberal arts college just outside of Boston | 现在,你刚刚从Rousey小姐那里听说 一个交换生,他通常 在波士顿外边的一所小 鲜为人知的文学院 |
| 113 | I'm sure if you've ever spoken to her. | 我敢肯定,如果你曾经和她说话。 |
| 114 | 弧筁 pro | |
| 115 | But I've got to give her credit for speaking on the anti-america side of the motion | 但我得把她的功劳归功于她 在动议的反美洲方面 |
| 116 | It's smart | 聪明 |
| 117 | It means that I can't if I don't want to harm my case make any jokes about how shallow Americans are how loosely they hold | 意思是如果我不想伤害我的案子 我就不能开玩笑说美国人有多浅 |
| 118 | Their political beliefs and how confidently they speak about things that they only really found out about two days ago at the bar | 他们的政治信仰 和他们如何自信地谈论的事情 他们真正发现的事情 大约两天前在酒吧 |
| 119 | All of those would be jokes, of course | 当然,所有这些都是笑话 |
| 120 | But what I can say is that she's very American in her ambition | 但我可以说 她的野心非常美国 |
| 121 | I've never seen someone become chief of staff so quickly speaking second is sir | 我从未见过有人这么快就成为幕僚长 说第二句话是长官 |
| 122 | Hugh struck as distinguished British military historian volume one of his series on the First World War is often cited as the best work | Hugh被评为英国著名军事史学家 第一次世界大战系列之一 |
| 123 | on the subject ever | 永远 |
| 124 | Problem is he never actually wrote the other two that he promised us | 问题是他从来没有写过另外两个 他答应我们 |
| 125 | So maybe and it's just an idea feel free to disagree with me instead of debating students at the Union. | 所以,也许,这只是一个想法 感觉自由 不同意我 而不是辩论学生 在工会。 |
| 126 | He should finish his homework | 他应该完成作业 |
| 127 | Though though I suppose it follows from this habit of his that he would support a unified European army | 虽然我猜他支持统一欧洲军队的习惯 |
| 128 | An idea that's been discussed for 60 years, but that no one has really been willing to do anything about probably for good reason as we'll argue | 一个已经讨论了60年的想法, 但没有人真的愿意做任何事情 也许有很好的理由,因为我们会争论 |
| 129 | Lastly you'll hear from mr | 最后,你会听到先生 |
| 130 | Karen's the former prime minister and former minister of foreign affairs and former minister of the economy of Latvia | 凯伦是拉脱维亚前总理兼前外交部长兼前经济部长. |
| 131 | The official reason he cited for his resignation as prime minister was coalition conflict | 他辞去总理职务的官方理由是联盟冲突 |
| 132 | But after a few quick Google searches, I think I found the real source of that conflict his peers were jealous | 但经过几次快速的谷歌搜索, 我想我发现真正的冲突源 他的同伴嫉妒。 |
| 133 | They were jealous of his ability to attract an audience and his online presence | 他们嫉妒他吸引观众的能力 和他在网上的存在 |
| 134 | I mean with a whopping a hundred and eighty-five subscribers on YouTube after just 16 years of posting on the platform, sir | 在YouTube上卖了一百八十五个订户 在平台上贴了16年之后 |
| 135 | Your voter outreach is truly unmatched | 你对选民的接触真是无与伦比 |
| 136 | but | 不过 |
| 137 | But in all seriousness, but in all seriousness, I'm really glad to be debating these people madam president | 但说实在的,说实在的, 我很高兴能和这些人辩论,总统女士 |
| 138 | These are your guests and they are most welcome now | 这些是你的客人 现在欢迎他们 |
| 139 | Now I want to begin by flagging something extraordinary after a whole speech. | 现在我想先在演讲结束后 写点特别的东西 |
| 140 | We still don't know what the proposition is proposing | 我们还不知道提议是什么 |
| 141 | I mean, we've been assured that the European army is possible. | 我的意思是,我们已经得到保证 欧洲军队是可能的。 |
| 142 | We're told it's impressive | 听说很厉害 |
| 143 | But when you actually listen closely what you hear is not a plan | 但当你真正仔细听 你听到的不是一个计划 |
| 144 | It's what maybe some of you would be generous in calling concepts of a plan. | 也许你们中有些人会慷慨解囊地提出一个计划的概念。 |
| 145 | We don't hear about the structure | 我们不知道结构 |
| 146 | We don't hear about the chain of command not even a shared language in which these people will communicate | 我们没有听说指挥系统 甚至连一种共同语言 这些人用它交流 |
| 147 | So let me ask a few questions that are so basic that the absence of answers should shock you first | 让我来问几个问题,这些问题非常基本,没有答案,首先会吓到你 |
| 148 | Are they integrating units from different national armies into a single force? | 他们是否将来自不同国家军队的单位整合成一支部队? |
| 149 | So are they having mixed brigades or are they simply placing national units under a European command structure? | 因此,他们是混合旅还是仅仅将国家部队置于欧洲指挥结构之下? |
| 150 | Because I mean if it's the second I'm sorry to say that that already exists | 因为如果这是第二次 我很抱歉地说 那已经存在 |
| 151 | It's called NATO and under article 5 it has the power to call upon national armies in collective defense | 它叫北约,根据第5条 它有权号召国家军队进行集体防御 |
| 152 | So if that's what they're proposing, I'm sorry to say that their motion is redundant | 所以,如果这是他们提出的,我很抱歉说 他们的动议是多余的 |
| 153 | Secondly and alternatively if it is a genuinely integrated force | 第二,或者说,如果它是一个真正一体化的力量 |
| 154 | What language do they speak who exactly sits at the top of it? | 他们用什么语言说谁坐在上面? |
| 155 | Is it the commission? | 是佣金吗? |
| 156 | Is it the council? | 是议会吗? |
| 157 | Is it some rotating presidency? | 是轮值主席吗? |
| 158 | I mean, these are not technicalities | 我的意思是,这些不是技术性的 |
| 159 | They may sound like them though | 他们可能听起来像他们虽然 |
| 160 | These are the bare minimum questions that you answer before you ask nations to merge their armies | 这是你问各国合并军队之前 回答的最起码的问题 |
| 161 | And if the proposition cannot explain how this force works | 如果这个提议不能解释这种力量是如何运作的 |
| 162 | I mean they have no right to ask of you to trust that it will actually protect you | 我的意思是,他们没有权利要求你相信 它会真正保护你 |
| 163 | Hands will go deeper into the logistics. | 手会深入到后勤部门 |
| 164 | But even if this army were technically possible, it would be a terrible idea | 但是,即使这支军队在技术上是可能的, 这将是一个可怕的想法 |
| 165 | Let's talk about sovereignty because the central concept that the proposition has failed to confront or perhaps is chosen to wave away is | 我们来谈谈主权问题,因为提案未能面对或被选择挥之不去的核心概念是: |
| 166 | The right of a people to defend themselves the right more bluntly not to have to outsource their survival and hope that the some bureaucrat | 人民捍卫自己的权利 更直截了当地说 不需要外包他们的生存 希望一些官僚 |
| 167 | In Brussels or Paris will pick up the phone when it comes time to do | 在布鲁塞尔或巴黎 等时机成熟再接电话 |
| 168 | So the first argument that I will make then is simply that this proposal is profoundly unpopular and that matters | 因此,我当时提出的第一个论点是,这项提案极不受欢迎,而且, |
| 169 | Because if put to a vote it would fail if imposed regardless | 因为如果投票表决,不管怎样,如果强制,都会失败 |
| 170 | It will constitute a direct violation of popular will let us begin with the world as it actually exists a world where most European countries | 这将直接违反大众意志,让我们从世界开始,因为它实际上存在于一个大多数欧洲国家的世界。 |
| 171 | Don't trust the EU to handle their affairs from economic policy the borders | 不要相信欧盟 处理他们的事务 从经济政策的边界 |
| 172 | Do you really think that they would entrust their safety to that same institution? | 你真的认为他们会把安全委托给同一机构吗? |
| 173 | But they would leave it up to the bureaucrats in Brussels to determine whether or not they keep their land | 但是他们会让布鲁塞尔的官僚们来决定他们是否保有土地 |
| 174 | Whether their son has to go fight and die in some foreign country | 他们的儿子是否必须去外国打仗和死去 |
| 175 | Do you truly think that the same voters who see when Brussels regulates their bottle caps would do that? | 你真的认为那些看到布鲁塞尔管制瓶盖的选民 会这样做吗? |
| 176 | I don't think so and I think they have a good reason not to | 我不这么认为 我认为他们有很好的理由不 |
| 177 | Because the army is not just a practicality for the countries that fought for their independence | 因为军队不仅仅是那些为独立而战的国家的实用性 |
| 178 | For those who resisted occupation who bled against the Nazis and who clawed their way back into nationhood | 对那些反抗占领的人,他们为纳粹流血,他们把路拖回国家 |
| 179 | The army is an expression of identity and of dignity under this proposal your soldiers would answer orders in another language | 根据这个提议,军队是身份和尊严的体现 你们的士兵会用另一种语言回答命令 |
| 180 | They would fight under a flag you never saluted and they would die for a polity you never meaningfully consented to perhaps you're asking yourselves though | 他们会在旗下战斗... ...你从未向他们致敬... ...他们会为了一个你从未真正同意... |
| 181 | No, thank you. | 不 谢谢 |
| 182 | Perhaps you ask yourselves though. | 也许你们可以问问自己 |
| 183 | Well, NATO already exists and it does some of these things in a similar way | 北约已经存在了,它也用类似的方式做了一些事情 |
| 184 | I would say that NATO has three features the European Union conspicuously lacks NATO has a track record of defense | 我要说,北约有三个特点,欧洲联盟明显缺乏北约的防御记录 |
| 185 | It was ratified by the people of the time but most importantly and I want to focus on this | 当时人民已经批准了它,但最重要的是,我想集中谈谈 |
| 186 | It doesn't require that your national standing army is diminished | 这不要求你的国家常备军减少 |
| 187 | It retains the power to call upon your national armies in defense of an ally | 它保留了号召你们国家军队保卫盟友的权力 |
| 188 | Yes, but it treats those national armies as such | 是的,但它对待 国家军队是这样 |
| 189 | It does not merge them together into an amalgamation that ends up belonging to no nation and that distinction matters | 它不会将它们合并为一种最终属于任何国家的合并,而区别很重要。 |
| 190 | Not only because your soldiers wear their own flag, but because sovereign states retain the power to leave | 不仅因为你的士兵们都戴着自己的旗帜 也因为主权国家有权离开 |
| 191 | Exit is the ultimate guarantee of respect an integrated European army would make withdrawal | 退出是尊重欧洲军队的最终保障 |
| 192 | Impossible because it forces a nation to entirely rebuild their army from scratch | 因为它迫使一个国家 从头开始重建军队 |
| 193 | So why should we care about what people think firstly just because we should I think to deny the value of the people's will | 因此,我们为什么要关心什么 人们的想法 首先,因为我们应该思考 否认人民意志的价值 |
| 194 | While affirming the value of their security is to sever the root while admiring the leaves | 在确认其安全价值的同时,还要在欣赏叶子的同时切除根部 |
| 195 | The very point of European defense is to secure European sovereignty | 欧洲的防守就是要确保欧洲的主权 |
| 196 | And so to violate it in the name of saving it is not just ironic. | 因此,为了拯救它而违反它不仅仅是讽刺。 |
| 197 | It's incoherent | 这是不连贯的 |
| 198 | Secondly distrust between rank-and-file soldiers and even national generals means that they may be uncooperative | 二级军衔士兵甚至国家将军之间的不信任意味着他们可能不合作 |
| 199 | I mean if these guys aren't even willing to let each other fish without three dozen strongly worded letters and court cases | 我的意思是,如果这些家伙甚至 不愿意让彼此钓鱼 没有三打强词夺理的信件和法庭案件 |
| 200 | How the hell do you think that they're going to coordinate to promptly react to some Russian invasion before they reach the Maginot line? | 你觉得他们会如何协调 在他们到达马吉诺防线之前 对俄国的入侵做出迅速反应? |
| 201 | And volunteer armies for their part which constitute the vast majority of European armies will see the recruitment fall as citizens feel alienated from those institutions | 而志愿军则占欧洲军队的绝大多数,随着公民感到与这些机构疏远,他们的招募就会减少。 |
| 202 | Thirdly this project hands a gift to the far right they thrive on claims of lost sovereignty of imposed integration of | 第三,这个项目向极右翼成员赠送了礼物。 |
| 203 | Democratic disregard in this case. | 民主无视本案. |
| 204 | They wouldn't just be loud. | 他们不会只是大声。 |
| 205 | They would actually have a point now | 他们现在有道理了 |
| 206 | Suppose you still believe the proposition suppose you still believe that sovereignty is negotiable | 假设你仍然相信这个提议 假设你仍然相信主权是可谈判的 |
| 207 | The trust is optional and that armies can function like regulatory agencies keep in mind | 信任是可选的 军队可以像管理机构一样运作 |
| 208 | That's what believing in the proposition requires at this point in the debate | 相信这个提议 此时此刻在辩论中 |
| 209 | My second argument is equally clear that this move would drastically worsen ties with the US a core part of European safety | 我的第二个论点同样明确,这一举动将严重恶化与美国的关系,而这种关系是欧洲安全的核心部分。 |
| 210 | Because the US does not interpret the European army as burden-sharing it interpreted as political distancing | 因为美国不把欧洲军队 解释为分担负担 它解释为政治疏远 |
| 211 | For 70 years European security has rested on one organizing principle NATO one command structure one planning process | 70年来,欧洲安全一直依赖北约一个指挥机构一个规划过程的组织原则 |
| 212 | One alliance identity that is what justifies the American investment in to | 一个联盟身份就是美国投资的原因 |
| 213 | Congress to the people and to the Pentagon the American investment that that speaker agreed is the only thing that has allowed Ukraine | 国会对人民和五角大楼的美国投资 发言人同意,这是唯一允许乌克兰的东西 |
| 214 | To fight for this long the European Union could not have supported them as much | 为了争取这么长的时间,欧洲联盟不可能支持他们这么多 |
| 215 | So to speak plainly how does the proposition think that Donald Trump reacts to them sticking into the US and saying we don't need you | 所以说得简单一点 这个提议怎么认为唐纳德·特朗普 对他们坚持进美国说我们不需要你 |
| 216 | Anymore do they think it's with continued support or do they think it's with disregard perhaps even punishment? | 他们是否认为这是持续支持 还是他们认为是无视甚至惩罚? |
| 217 | Now the proposition has tried to cast doubt on the support | 现在这个提议试图质疑 |
| 218 | But I will say this Trump is no longer fond of Putin | 但我会说川普不再喜欢普京了 |
| 219 | He's the first president to impose secondary sanctions at this scale and it's going out of his way to dismantle the Russian shadow fleet | 他是第一位实行二级制裁的总统, 并且要解散俄国影子舰队 |
| 220 | There are almost a hundred thousand American troops in Europe this naive and panicky idea that the US is | 欧洲有近十万美军 如此天真和惊慌 |
| 221 | Abandoning Europe because of the Greenland incident is just not true | 由于格陵兰事件而抛弃欧洲,这不是真的 |
| 222 | It's no wonder that the only speaker with insider knowledge on how American foreign policy actually works stands on the opposition and | 毫不奇怪,唯一一个对美国外交政策 如何实际运作有内幕知识的演讲者 站在反对派和 |
| 223 | Losing the Americans matters which they do because the Europe relies on the US for strategic airlift for intelligence surveillance missile defense satellite | 失去美国人所做的事情,因为欧洲依靠美国进行情报监视导弹防御卫星的战略空运 |
| 224 | Reconnaissance and battlefield coordination without which Ukraine would not have survived | 侦察和战场协调,没有这些,乌克兰就不会幸存 |
| 225 | I mean 50% of European defense equipment is sourced from American companies | 50%的欧洲防御设备来自美国公司 |
| 226 | So yeah, Europe needs the United States and here's where the proposition fails strategically | 所以,欧洲需要美国 而这里的命题在战略上失败了 |
| 227 | And I want to emphasize this point because there's a time lag issue | 我想强调这一点 因为有时间滞后的问题 |
| 228 | The European army they propose would take many years to build in the meantime Europe would still need America | 他们提出的欧洲军队 需要很多年才能建立起来 同时欧洲还需要美国 |
| 229 | But they wouldn't have them and so strategic autonomy does not arrive overnight | 但他们不会拥有它们 所以战略自主权不会一夜之间到达 |
| 230 | Alienating your primary security guarantor before replacement capacity exists is not independence that what the proposition is proposing is exposure | 在更换能力存在之前将你的主要担保人隔开,并不是独立地认为提议是暴露 |
| 231 | So let me make this abundantly clear Europe needs the United States | 所以,让我说清楚 欧洲需要美国 |
| 232 | We have them the proposition loses them at the end of the speech ladies and gentlemen | 在演讲结束后,我们就会失去他们 女士们先生们 |
| 233 | I asked them for what because if their policy violates European sovereignty if it increases mutual mistrust and internal instability in Europe | 我问他们为什么 因为如果他们的政策侵犯欧洲主权 如果它增加了欧洲的互不信任和内部不稳定 |
| 234 | Empowering extremists and if it weakens Europe's strongest alliance, then what is the purpose of their policy? | 赋予极端分子权力,如果它削弱欧洲最强大的联盟,那么他们政策的目的是什么? |
| 235 | They have two speeches left. | 他们还有两场演讲 |
| 236 | I very much hope we hear an answer, but let's say they give an answer | 我非常希望我们听到一个答案, 但让我们假设他们给出了一个答案 |
| 237 | Let's say at the end of this debate. | 说此论末. |
| 238 | You're convinced that Europe is probably safer on their side | 你相信欧洲在他们身边会更安全 |
| 239 | Probably are you really willing to risk it all going wrong in any one of the ways that I've described. | 你可能真的愿意冒这个险 用我描述的任何一种方式 都是错误的 |
| 240 | Thank you | 谢谢 |
| 241 | I would like to invite our second proposition speaker to the floor | 我请我们的第二个提议发言人发言。 |
| 242 | Ladies and gentlemen from what you've just heard you might imagine that your national sovereignty is already intact and not already | 女士们,先生们,你们刚才听到的 你们可能会想象 你们的国家主权已经完好无损,还没有 |
| 243 | Compromised by our current defense arrangements | 我们的防御安排妥协了 |
| 244 | I urge urge you to disregard that particular argument for reasons that seem to be much more important. | 我敦促你们出于似乎更为重要的理由,无视这一论点。 |
| 245 | Of course | 当然 |
| 246 | We need to be concerned about this issue issue | 我们需要关注这个问题 |
| 247 | Not just because of our adversaries but because of our allies | 不仅因为我们的对手,也因为我们的盟友 |
| 248 | And particularly, of course by the current position of the United States | 当然,特别是美国目前的立场 |
| 249 | The idea that there should be a European army is not a new one | 应该有一支欧洲军队的想法不是新的 |
| 250 | It goes back indeed to the origins of NATO itself the Western European Union | 这确实可以追溯到北约本身、西欧联盟的起源。 |
| 251 | established in 1948 | 1948年设立的 |
| 252 | Endeavored in 1954 to create a force which might be able to conduct independently | 1954年创建了一支能够独立行动的部队 |
| 253 | Intervention operations in the end it had 28 European states | 干预行动最终有28个欧洲国家 |
| 254 | Affiliated to it, but it never achieved anything which seems of course to serve the purposes of the opposition | 与它有联系,但是它从来没有取得任何 似乎当然服务于反对派的目的 |
| 255 | Indeed, it was finally wound up in 2011 | 事实上,它最终于2011年结束 |
| 256 | but the point that I think you've just points you've just heard from the opposers to this motion are an | 但我认为你刚才从反对者那里 听到的一点就是 |
| 257 | Absence of any sense of the degree to which the situation has changed | 缺乏对情况变化程度的任何感觉 |
| 258 | And it has changed radically since 2011 for three very obvious reasons | 自2011年以来,它发生了巨大变化,原因有三个: |
| 259 | All of them I think pretty self-evident to you this evening | 我今晚觉得他们全都不言自明 |
| 260 | Number one Russia has emerged as a significant threat | 头号俄罗斯已经成为重大威胁 |
| 261 | Ukraine is defending Europe as well as defending itself in what it is doing | 乌克兰既捍卫欧洲,也捍卫自己的行为 |
| 262 | It now has the largest and most effective army | 它现在拥有最大和最有效的军队 |
| 263 | It's worth bearing in mind that a greater contribution to the support of that army has come from the European states combined | 值得铭记的是,欧洲各国加起来对军队的支持作出了更大的贡献。 |
| 264 | Then has come from the United States itself | 那么美国本身就来了 |
| 265 | Although the United States may be critically critically important and the Ukrainians would certainly like to see them back in the fight | 虽然美国可能至关重要,但乌克兰人肯定希望看到他们重新参与战斗。 |
| 266 | But that point that not only has Russia shown its hand | 但这一点,俄罗斯不仅已经伸出手 |
| 267 | But also that Russia through this war has become militarily more effective. | 但也使俄国通过这场战争在军事上变得更加有效. |
| 268 | It has an army that is less corrupt | 它有一支不那么腐败的军队 |
| 269 | It has an army that is now better equipped and it has a defense industry that is fully mobilized | 拥有一支装备较好的军队 拥有一支充分动员的国防工业 |
| 270 | the second big argument that is I think affects this debate and why things have changed I | 我认为第二个大论点 影响这场辩论 和为什么事情已经改变 |
| 271 | That in the end and this is entirely pertinent to the argument about national sovereignty | 这最终与国家主权的论点完全相关 |
| 272 | The situation here has changed | 这里的情况已经改变 |
| 273 | technologically the advent of cyber | 网络的出现 |
| 274 | electronic warfare, but above all AI and now the promise of a | 电子战争,但最重要的是 大赦国际,现在承诺 |
| 275 | AGI | 爱奇艺 |
| 276 | artificial general intelligence means that actually | 人工一般智能意味着事实上 |
| 277 | Mediums state-sized states that is effectively all the European states will not have the independent | 国家大小的国家,实际上所有欧洲国家都不会有独立的 |
| 278 | Capacity to defend themselves and indeed those and I as you heard I'm a very bad historian who fails to complete his books | 有能力保护自己 以及我和你们听到的 我是一个非常糟糕的历史学家 他没有完成他的书 |
| 279 | I'm certainly not a technologist or a technician and have no expertise in science | 我当然不是技术专家 也不是技术员 也不是科学专家 |
| 280 | But those to whom I speak about a GI say that by the end of this decade | 但是那些我谈到GI的人 说到本十年末 |
| 281 | Essentially all the effective military power would be concentrated either in the hands of China or in the hands of the United States | 基本上,所有有效的军事力量都将集中在中国或美国手中。 |
| 282 | In other words, it's a pretty poor outlook if you think national sovereignty is going to be a significant | 换句话说,如果你认为国家主权是一件大事的话, 前景是相当糟糕的 |
| 283 | contribution to your defense and the third and most obvious point is that for a very long time | 第三个也是最明显的一点是 长久以来 |
| 284 | The United States has been telling Europe to get its act together | 美国一直告诉欧洲 行动起来 |
| 285 | President Obama did it President Trump did it in his first term | 奥巴马总统在第一任就这么做了 |
| 286 | President Biden did it and then finally | 拜登总统这样做,最后 |
| 287 | There was a root | 有一个根 |
| 288 | Carry on quick. | 快点 |
| 289 | Yes | 对 |
| 290 | Together mean having a unified armed force instead of just spending. | 共同意味着拥有统一的武装力量,而不是仅仅花费. |
| 291 | I will get there | 我会去的 |
| 292 | They and then Trump to of course has actually caused Europe to wake up | 他们和特朗普当然会让欧洲醒来 |
| 293 | We should be deeply grateful to the president. | 我们应该深切感谢总统 |
| 294 | He has encouraged | 他鼓励 |
| 295 | European states to increase defense expenditure | 欧洲国家增加国防开支 |
| 296 | He's encouraged the United Kingdom to think about a better relationship with Europe particularly in the realm of defense | 他鼓励英国考虑与欧洲改善关系,特别是在国防领域 |
| 297 | And he has created a sense of urgency | 他创造了一种紧迫感 |
| 298 | Which it seems to be vital we can now exploit | 这似乎很重要 我们现在可以利用了 |
| 299 | And that separation in terms of how we see NATO the possibility if you read the national defense strategy | 从我们如何看待北约的角度来看 如果你读到国防战略 |
| 300 | As obviously some people in this discussion already have referred to and therefore have read there is no reference there to extended deterrence | 显然,在本次讨论中,有些人已经提到,因此读到,没有提到扩大威慑。 |
| 301 | There is no reference directly to article 5 which has been cited already and instead the refrain has been very much for very good | 并未直接提及已经援引的第5条,相反,这一节奏是十分有益的。 |
| 302 | Reasons that the focus should be on article 3 which is the obligation of each country within Europe to do its best to defend itself | 重点应放在第3条上的理由,该条是欧洲各国尽其最大努力进行自卫的义务。 |
| 303 | Before it can really have the right to summon article 5 in its defense | 在它真正有权传唤第五条辩护之前 |
| 304 | So where do we now stand and how we gain? | 那么,我们现在的立场如何? |
| 305 | with reference to the | 一、导 言 |
| 306 | Question for the floor to address this I think we need to address first of all the key takeaways from the US | 我想我们首先需要解决 从美国带走的关键物品 |
| 307 | statements on national security strategy | 关于国家安全战略的声明 |
| 308 | That makes no reference to the United Kingdom | 这没有提到联合王国。 |
| 309 | Specifically which is worth reflecting on here doesn't matter too much to the other countries of Europe | 具体来说,这里值得思考的,对欧洲其他国家来说并不重要 |
| 310 | It does treat both documents do treat Europe as a cohesive whole as a group of allies | 它确实把两份文件都当作一个团结的欧洲作为盟友 |
| 311 | Concerned with the defense of their own continent it demands those European allies cease to be dependents and become | 为了保卫自己的大陆,它要求这些欧洲盟国不再是附属国,成为 |
| 312 | essentially partners that is the vocabulary of the phrase and | 基本伙伴是该短语的词汇, |
| 313 | As I've already said there is no reference to extended deterrence | 正如我已经说过的 没有提及扩大威慑 |
| 314 | The implication is that Europe is going to be much more likely to find itself on its own when it comes to | 意思是,欧洲将更可能 发现自己自己 当涉及到 |
| 315 | defending the continent rather than being able to rely on the United States | 而不是依靠美国 |
| 316 | The positive message in this is that if Europe can get its act together more effectively than it has so far | 积极的讯息是,如果欧洲能够比迄今更有效地采取行动 |
| 317 | Then there is something to play for with the United States. | 那么,美国也有一些事情要做。 |
| 318 | I'm not writing off a relationship with the United States | 我不会取消与美国的关系 |
| 319 | I'm saying a European a better European solution would actually draw the United States in | 我是说一个欧洲的更好的欧洲解决方案 将会吸引美国加入 |
| 320 | And that is important | 这很重要 |
| 321 | principally because | 主要因为 |
| 322 | There is here within the Trump rhetoric a great deal of course that recognized his power | 川普的言辞中 肯定有很多人承认他的力量 |
| 323 | That regards war and peace as serious issues that moves away from a vocabulary of vagueness in regard to liberal values | 将战争与和平视为严重问题,远离了自由价值模糊的词汇 |
| 324 | But which instead sees these things very much in concrete terms and above all in terms of economic capability | 但它却非常具体地看待这些东西 首先是经济能力 |
| 325 | We have been told we should rely on NATO as it currently is and it's extraordinary when these debates take place | 我们被告知,我们应该依赖北约 与现在一样 当这些辩论举行时,这是非凡的 |
| 326 | That somehow NATO is assumed to have delivered do remember that NATO failed in Afghanistan | 北约在阿富汗失败了 |
| 327 | That indeed when it came to withdraw from Afghanistan the United States in | 事实上,当美国撤出阿富汗时 |
| 328 | 2021 and in the run-up to the deal with the Taliban did not even consult its allies anyway | 2021年,在与塔利班达成交易之前,甚至没有征求其盟友的意见。 |
| 329 | And what came out of the Afghan? | 阿富汗人从哪里冒出来的? |
| 330 | Experience and I say this in full deference to those who served in Afghanistan | 经验,我这样说完全是为了尊重在阿富汗服役的人 |
| 331 | And what they did and how they suffered, but what came out of Afghanistan essentially? | 他们做了什么,他们是如何受苦的,但阿富汗究竟从哪里来的? |
| 332 | Was a sense within NATO that this was a success because the institution survived | 北约内部有一种感觉,认为这是成功的,因为该组织幸存了下来 |
| 333 | That was not the point the point of going into Afghanistan's to achieve a better settlement with regard to Afghanistan and to deal with | 这不是阿富汗实现更好解决阿富汗问题和处理阿富汗问题的关键所在。 |
| 334 | counterterrorism and look at how NATO is supported and behaved in regard to Ukraine | 反恐,审视北约在乌克兰问题上如何得到支持和行为 |
| 335 | NATO failed to deter the February 2022 attack. | 北约未能阻止2022年2月的袭击. |
| 336 | It failed to respond to the original invasion in 2014 | 它未能应对2014年的入侵 |
| 337 | It now pats itself on the back because it says it's doing so much more for NATO | 它现在拍自己的背面 因为上面说它对北约有更大的作用 |
| 338 | Sorry, I beg your pardon for Ukraine since 2022. | 抱歉,请原谅乌克兰自2022年起。 |
| 339 | It's done just enough to keep Ukraine in the fight | 已经足够让乌克兰继续战斗了 |
| 340 | Not enough to enable Ukraine to win | 不足以让乌克兰获胜 |
| 341 | There is no strategy for victory | 胜利没有策略 |
| 342 | Within NATO as far as Ukraine is concerned beyond the rhetoric that says Ukraine must not lose | 在北约内部,就乌克兰而言,除了说乌克兰绝不能输的言论之外, |
| 343 | Is that really a significant contribution to the war in Ukraine? | 这是对乌克兰战争的重大贡献吗? |
| 344 | So if we are to address some of these problems by creating a European army and here I come to the practical point | 所以,如果我们要解决其中的一些问题 通过建立一支欧洲军队, 在这里,我来到了实际点 |
| 345 | How do we do it and? | 我们该怎么做? |
| 346 | How do we deal with this argument that the Europeans when they get together are? | 我们如何处理欧洲人在聚在一起时的论点? |
| 347 | Bureaucratic slow to decide and reluctant to act. | 官僚主义缓慢决定,不愿采取行动. |
| 348 | Is that any different from NATO? | 这和北约有什么不同吗? |
| 349 | I suspect not | 我怀疑没有 |
| 350 | How do we do it? | 我们怎么办? |
| 351 | Well, the answer is you don't begin with the European Army | 答案是你不从欧洲军队开始 |
| 352 | That is your final destination you begin with what you have you begin at the bottom up you build | 那是你最后的目的地 从你从下到上开始 |
| 353 | From what is working well | 从什么运作良好 |
| 354 | Rather than go for an unachievable objective | 而不是追求一个无法实现的目标 |
| 355 | I recognize many of the criticisms that being leveled at European defense because they're already evident within NATO | 我承认许多批评 被欧洲国防 因为它们已经很明显 在北约内部 |
| 356 | But think what is working think of the cooperation between the Scandinavian states | 但想一想斯堪的纳维亚国家之间的合作 |
| 357 | Finland Finland Denmark Sweden Norway now operating a | 芬兰 芬兰 丹麦 瑞典 挪威目前正在运作 |
| 358 | combined air defense of the Scandinavian region | 斯堪的纳维亚地区联合防空 |
| 359 | unimaginable in | 无法想象 |
| 360 | European terms collectively but an example of what would be possible if people began to think regionally and | 欧式词汇是集体的,但如果人们开始从区域角度思考和思考,可以做些什么的例子。 |
| 361 | In terms of their own priorities air is an easy place to begin | 就自身的优先事项而言,空气是一个容易开始的地方 |
| 362 | Build on the air plan easy to extend it easier to extend it across Europe | 利用空中计划,使整个欧洲更容易推广 |
| 363 | Then go to the Navy Navy's already cooperate | 那就去海军那里合作吧 |
| 364 | We forget the success of EU Navy's encounter piracy operations a story essentially buried in the United Kingdom because it was embarrassing | 我们忘记了欧盟海军遭遇海盗行动的成功 一个基本上埋藏在英国的故事,因为它很尴尬 |
| 365 | in terms of its success | 成功与否 |
| 366 | But Navy's because they have common codes of conduct common respect for international maritime law and common understandings of navigation | 但海军有共同的行为守则 共同遵守国际海事法 共同理解航海 |
| 367 | Come together much more easily | 一起来比较容易 |
| 368 | Land the army issue is of course the most difficult the most difficult to address | 陆军问题当然是最难解决的 |
| 369 | Partly because populations are distributed in inconvenient parts particularly in those countries that have conscription | 部分原因是人口分布不便,特别是在实行征兵的国家。 |
| 370 | Finland Norway they're all in the south of the country rather than north which may be the area of attack | 他们全部在南部 而不是北部 可能是攻击地区 |
| 371 | Partly too because there are two different traditions in relation to national behavior and national service | 部分原因是在民族行为和国民服务方面有两种不同的传统 |
| 372 | but that does not mean it is not possible and | 但这并不意味着这是不可能的,而且 |
| 373 | Then the most difficult of all but still possible through bilateral groupings as a first point is | 那么,作为第一点,通过双边集团仍然可能做到的最困难是: |
| 374 | Nuclear there are two nuclear powers within Europe the United Kingdom and France | 核能在欧洲有两个核大国 英国和法国 |
| 375 | Which are already talking the United Kingdom deterrent is already allocated to NATO | 英国的威慑力量已经分配给北约 |
| 376 | Germany and Poland have raised that issue | 德国和波兰提出了这个问题。 |
| 377 | so my argument is | 所以我的论点是 |
| 378 | For the next five years Europe is | 在未来五年里,欧洲是 |
| 379 | Collectively whether it is in NATO or in some European defense structure too weak to defend itself | 无论是在北约还是在一些欧洲防御结构中 都太薄弱,无法自卫 |
| 380 | We are too reliant still on the United States. | 我们依然过于依赖美国。 |
| 381 | That is a pattern of risk | 这是一种风险模式 |
| 382 | Which we have been warned about we may be lucky | 我们被警告过,我们也许很幸运 |
| 383 | But we may not be and now is the moment when we need to do enough | 但我们可能不是,现在是我们需要做足够工作的时刻 |
| 384 | To think about how we make an alliance which is truly effective and which is bounded by | 想想我们如何结成一个真正有效、以 |
| 385 | Geographical realities and by a common sense of unity | 地理现实和共同团结意识 |
| 386 | I will end not with my words | 我不会用我的话结束 |
| 387 | But the words of somebody not in this room general Jalujny now our ambassador the Ukrainian ambassador here in the United Kingdom | 但是,有人不在这个房间里 将军Jalujny 现在,我们的大使 乌克兰驻英国大使 |
| 388 | But of course the commander-in-chief between | 但当然总司令之间 |
| 389 | 2022 and 2023 in Ukraine who said the purposes of alliances is to fight a war | 2022年和2023年在乌克兰 说联盟的目的是打仗 |
| 390 | It is not to defend and protect itself as an institution | 并不是作为一个机构来捍卫和保护自己 |
| 391 | I believe a European army will be ready to fight for the defense of Europe | 我相信一支欧洲军队会准备保卫欧洲 |
| 392 | Next I would like to call upon some members of the audience for some floor speeches before we proceed on to | 下面,我想请一些听众发言,然后我们再开始讨论。 |
| 393 | Ambassador Gardner's speech before we do that. | 加德纳大使的发言 在我们这样做之前。 |
| 394 | I would like to call upon some members of the audience to deliver floor speeches | 我请一些听众发言。 |
| 395 | The prize is a hundred pound voucher to quad. | 奖金是一百镑到四 |
| 396 | So do speak up. | 所以说吧 |
| 397 | Are there any speakers for proposition? | 有没有人要发言? |
| 398 | The gentleman in the back | 后面那个绅士 |
| 399 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 400 | And it may be unpatriotic for me to start with this, but the French will write all along | 但法国人会一直写 |
| 401 | 用Emmanuel Macron的话退出 | |
| 402 | NATO is brain dead | 北约的大脑死了 |
| 403 | we have seen America become | 我们看到美国变成 |
| 404 | Apathetic if not hostile to the European cause they are acting as though they were a Russian puppet | 如果不是敌视欧洲的事业,就是冷酷无情,他们的行为就像俄罗斯的傀儡 |
| 405 | and I'm sure we'll hear a lot about sovereignty tonight from the opposition and | 我敢肯定,我们会听到很多 关于主权 今晚从反对派和 |
| 406 | I will join these clamors for sovereignty in the rubble in Kyiv | 我将在基辅的废墟中与这些要求主权的呼声一道 |
| 407 | the wasteland in Mariupol | 马里乌波尔的荒地 |
| 408 | Because we're talking about people's lives. | 因为我们谈论的是人们的生活. |
| 409 | We're talking about the defense and the security of Europe | 我们说的是欧洲的防御和安全 |
| 410 | we're talking about freedom and prosperity and | 我们谈论的自由和繁荣, |
| 411 | This fanatical quest for sovereignty, which has already cost this country far too much in recent years. | 这种狂热的主权追求,近年来已经使这个国家付出了太多的代价。 |
| 412 | I | 一、导 言 |
| 413 | Really do not want it to cost this country anymore | 实在不想再让这个国家付出代价了 |
| 414 | It harks back to a rules-based world order an era where we could rely on | 它回到一个以规则为基础的世界秩序 一个我们可以依赖的时代 |
| 415 | American protection under article 5 of NATO | 北约第5条规定的美国保护 |
| 416 | When will we see that? | 什么时候见? |
| 417 | Era is dead. | 大纪元逝世. |
| 418 | It is not coming back. | 它不会回来了。 |
| 419 | We Europeans have to be able to defend ourselves | 我们欧洲人必须能够自卫 |
| 420 | Against Russian aggression and possibly even tragically against American aggression | 反对俄罗斯侵略,甚至可能悲惨地反对美国的侵略 |
| 421 | The only way that we will be able to change our status from a geopolitical wallflower | 只有这样,我们才能改变现状 从地缘政治的墙花。 |
| 422 | We're sidelined. | 我们被搁置了 |
| 423 | We have to unite | 我们必须团结起来 |
| 424 | division breeds weakness | 分裂产生弱点 |
| 425 | unity breeds strength | 团结培养力量 |
| 426 | We must come together unite our militaries be able to project our power on the world stage | 我们必须团结起来 团结我们的军队 才能在世界舞台上展现我们的力量 |
| 427 | Only then will we truly be able to make an effective case in defense of Liberty in defense of the rules-based | 只有这样,我们才能为捍卫自由 捍卫基于规则的 |
| 428 | world order | 世界秩序 |
| 429 | So I urge all of you tonight, please | 因此,我敦促大家今晚,请 |
| 430 | Vote in favor of the motion. | 投票支持动议。 |
| 431 | It will make our country stronger not weaker and in the name of sovereignty | 这将使我们的国家更加强大,而不是以主权的名义削弱 |
| 432 | We have already paid far too high a price | 我们已经付出了太高的代价 |
| 433 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 434 | I'd like to take one speaker for side opposition | 我想用一个发言人来表示反对 |
| 435 | And | 还有 |
| 436 | Yes, mr. Garth Lim the proposition in this debate remind me a little bit of the class hit from Rizzle Kix | 是的 Garth Lim先生 这次辩论的命题 让我想起了里兹尔·基克斯的班级 |
| 437 | Skip to the good bit because the problem with this proposition is all they talk about is the end point without | 跳到好的地方,因为这个提议的问题 就是他们谈论的结束点没有 |
| 438 | Considering what precisely it would require to get to that point. | 考虑一下究竟需要达到什么程度。 |
| 439 | The first point I want to make in this speech is the fact that | 我想在本次演讲中表达的第一点是 |
| 440 | 27 European states will not be able to agree | 27个欧洲国家无法同意 |
| 441 | Precisely on what their economic policy is and I think this is important | 我认为这很重要 |
| 442 | We live in a current state where Slovakia still takes Russian gas | 我们生活在现在的状态中 斯洛伐克仍然服用俄罗斯的毒气 |
| 443 | We live in a current state where Germany still takes Russian gas and I think this is important | 我们生活在一个德国仍然服用俄罗斯汽油的现状 我认为这很重要 |
| 444 | Do you trust 27 member states to cooperate on a single thing when their biggest enemy is Russia? | 难道你相信27个成员国 在单一的事情上合作 当他们最大的敌人是俄罗斯? |
| 445 | When all of their economic power depends on things that are fundamentally contradictory from one another I | 当他们所有的经济实力 依赖于彼此根本矛盾的东西时 |
| 446 | Would not and I think that is the problem when you have states vying for economic power with countries like China | 如果不是,我想这就是问题所在,因为你们有国家与中国这样的国家争夺经济实力。 |
| 447 | Each one of which contradicting one another this is the worst way for you to get any form of national security | 每一个互相矛盾的,这是你们获得任何形式的国家安全的最糟糕的方法 |
| 448 | In the first place you cannot trust one another | 首先你们不能互相信任 |
| 449 | But the second point I want to make is to talk about the United States as well | 但我想谈的第二点 就是美国 |
| 450 | Because I think regardless of whether or not the European Army exists | 因为我想不管欧洲军队是否存在 |
| 451 | I think the United States will have a stake in helping Europe defend itself | 我想美国会帮助欧洲保卫自己 |
| 452 | Why because Europe is still going to be one of the most important economic and political actors and like | 为什么因为欧洲仍将是 最重要的经济和政治行为者之一 |
| 453 | Forget Trump for just a second. | 别管特朗普了 |
| 454 | I know it's hard but beyond Trump | 我知道这很难,但除了特朗普 |
| 455 | I think there are other | 我想还有其他的 |
| 456 | Presidents in the United States and other cases where they will need to trade and if you do remember Trump | 美国总统和其他他们需要交易的案件 如果你记得特朗普 |
| 457 | I think it is also important because losing Europe in a war | 我认为这也很重要 因为战争中失去欧洲 |
| 458 | Otherwise is bad for a strongman position is bad if China takes over and so I think regardless of whether or European Army happens | 否则对强人不利 如果中国接手的话,那就不好了 所以我想不管欧洲军队发生与否 |
| 459 | We still get the defense of the US but we get a much much worse army for all of these reasons | 我们仍能保卫美国 但是由于所有这些原因 我们的军队更糟糕 |
| 460 | I think it's really really clear. | 我觉得这真的很清楚。 |
| 461 | I beg you to oppose this motion. | 我恳求你反对这个动议 |
| 462 | Thank you | 谢谢 |
| 463 | Next I would like to invite ambassador Garner to deliver a speech for side opposition | 接下来我要邀请加纳大使 为反对派发表演讲 |
| 464 | ladies and gentlemen | 女士们,先生们 |
| 465 | Students of Oxford. | 牛津的学生。 |
| 466 | I have been in this chamber at this dispatch box | 我在这间屋子里 |
| 467 | 40 years ago nearly to the day. | 四十年前,几乎是今天。 |
| 468 | I | 一、导 言 |
| 469 | Remember it almost as if it were yesterday. | 就像昨天一样 |
| 470 | I | 一、导 言 |
| 471 | Was in my room at Hollywell Manor. | 我在霍利威尔庄园的房间 |
| 472 | Who's a bailiol? | 谁是贝柳尔? |
| 473 | Who's from bailiol? | 谁从贝柳尔? |
| 474 | Wow | 哗 |
| 475 | And I was studying late and there was a knock at the door | 我学习很晚,门被敲门 |
| 476 | And I opened it up and to my shock and to my horror there stood before me none other than Boris Johnson | 我打开它,我震惊,我惊恐... ...我站在我面前... |
| 477 | newly minted president of the Oxford Union and he pointed a finger at me and he said you are | 牛津工会新主席对我指手画脚 他说你是 |
| 478 | my last hope | 我的最后一个希望 |
| 479 | because tomorrow's motion | 因为明天的动议 |
| 480 | We need a yank to oppose the motion which was this house condemns | 我们需要一个北方佬来反对 这个房子谴责的议案 |
| 481 | American belligerence and British complicity in the attack on Libya | 美国好战和英国共谋袭击利比亚 |
| 482 | Ronald Reagan had just announced missile strikes against Gaddafi | 罗纳德·里根刚刚宣布对卡扎菲发射导弹 |
| 483 | I was no fan of Reagan and I didn't support the missile strike, but I said it's the Union | 我不是里根的粉丝,我也不支持导弹攻击 但我说是联盟 |
| 484 | I've got to be there so I did and in my speech I | 我必须在那里 所以我做了,在我的演讲中 |
| 485 | Congratulated Boris on his election. | 祝贺鲍里斯当选. |
| 486 | I have the speech still and I said Boris. | 我还有话要说 鲍里斯 |
| 487 | It's the finest appointment | 这是最好的约会 |
| 488 | Since the Roman Emperor Caligula made his horse a consul and he forgave me those remarks | 自从罗马皇帝卡利古拉让他的马当执政官 他原谅我的话 |
| 489 | I stayed in touch with him and he was a mayor and when he was the spectator and I introduced him to | 我和他保持联系 他是市长 当他是旁观者 我介绍他 |
| 490 | our Secretary of State John Kerry | 我们的国务卿约翰·克里 |
| 491 | And I wrote a long psychoanalytical profile of Boris | 我写了一篇关于鲍里斯的长篇心理分析简介 |
| 492 | Obama read this long cable. | 奥巴马读了这条长线。 |
| 493 | Luckily, it's top secret. | 幸好这是最高机密 |
| 494 | It's not going to be released anytime soon | 它不会很快发行的 |
| 495 | Now what does this anecdote have to do with tonight's debate | 这个传闻和今晚的辩论有什么关系? |
| 496 | everything | 所有的东西 |
| 497 | Many of you in the audience will go on to occupy positions of responsibility in public service | 观众中许多人会继续担任公务员的要职 |
| 498 | You are the future and I'm asking you not to be seduced by fairy tales | 你是未来,我求你不要被童话所诱惑 |
| 499 | fairy tales like brexit | 童话般的童话 |
| 500 | We know how that worked out a fairy tale about a global Britain | 我们知道这个故事是如何编造的 关于一个全球英国的童话故事 |
| 501 | Which would unshackle itself from the corpse of the EU. | 这会从欧盟的尸体上解脱出来 |
| 502 | Well, we know how that worked out | 我们知道怎么解决的 |
| 503 | And I'm asking you not to believe in | 我请求你不要相信 |
| 504 | unicorns | 独角兽 |
| 505 | Unicorns that are talked about but don't exist and that's what we're talking about tonight an EU army | 独角兽虽然在谈论 但并不存在 这就是我们今晚谈论的 欧盟军队 |
| 506 | Is a fairy tale. | 是个童话故事 |
| 507 | It's a unicorn a beautiful thing | 这是一个独角兽 一个美丽的东西 |
| 508 | I wish I could be debating on the other side of this chamber today with my friend | 我希望今天能和我的朋友在本会议厅的另一边辩论 |
| 509 | Christian is whom I worked with the European Parliament went on to do said great things in Latvia | 克里斯蒂安是我和欧洲议会合作过的 在拉脱维亚做了很多伟大的事情 |
| 510 | I've spent my entire life in Europe. | 我在欧洲度过了一辈子 |
| 511 | I've believed in the EU. | 我曾经相信欧盟 |
| 512 | I worked in the White House as director for European Affairs | 我在白宫当过欧洲事务主任 |
| 513 | and then I was ambassador in Brussels and | 然后我在布鲁塞尔当大使 |
| 514 | It's been in the center of my life. | 历经中兴. |
| 515 | I've believed in greater European integration because it's good for the United States and it's good for Europe | 我相信欧洲的一体化,因为它对美国有利,对欧洲有利 |
| 516 | And I've also spoken out to my cost many times when I was in the White House | 我在白宫时,也曾对自己的成本说过很多次 |
| 517 | Against the position for decades of forcing European governments always to buy American equipment | 反对几十年来 迫使欧洲政府购买美国设备的立场 |
| 518 | I thought it was yes, it's good for short-term profits, but it's bad | 我以为是的,对短期利润有利,但很不好 |
| 519 | Long-term because Europe needs to build up a healthy European industrial complex | 长期是因为欧洲需要建立一个健康的欧洲工业综合体 |
| 520 | Neither Europe nor the UK can afford fairy tales right now | 现在无论欧洲还是英国都买不起童话故事 |
| 521 | Both need to learn how to walk faster | 都得学着走路快点 |
| 522 | Rather than to run a European army is maybe a good idea that maybe will happen one day in the distant future | 而不是经营一支欧洲军队 也许是个好主意 也许有一天会发生在遥远的未来 |
| 523 | But the idea has been discussed indeed for decades has been referred to the euro brigade has been talked about for decades | 但这个想法已经讨论几十年了 已经提到欧元旅 已经讨论几十年了 |
| 524 | And Europe has never been able to muster more than a few 10,000 men for missions lasting more than 30 days | 而欧洲从未能够召集超过10 000人参加为期超过30天的任务 |
| 525 | even Radik Sikorski a | 拉迪克・西科尔斯基 |
| 526 | Convinced Europeanist has said and I'm quoting him. | 相信欧洲主义者说过的话 我在引用他的话 |
| 527 | He's Poland's Minister of Defense | 他是波兰国防部长 |
| 528 | And said as much recently talking about a federal army is pointless | 说最近谈论联邦军队是毫无意义的 |
| 529 | It's unrealistic because national armies will not merge the budget simply aren't there nor is the political will | 这不现实 因为国家军队不会合并预算 根本就没有政治意愿 |
| 530 | Europe has and will remain has been said dependent on the United States for airlift for intelligence for surveillance for | 据说,欧洲过去和将来都依赖美国空运情报进行监视。 |
| 531 | Reconnaissance for missile defense. | 导弹防御侦察. |
| 532 | That's the uncomfortable truth and it won't change anytime soon. | 这是令人不舒服的真相 而且它不会很快改变。 |
| 533 | Yes | 对 |
| 534 | There has been cooperation between European navies. | 欧洲海军之间开展了合作。 |
| 535 | I was involved in some of the anti-piracy missions | 我参与过一些反海盗行动 |
| 536 | But this is small beer compared to what we're talking about now take the case of Belgium a country | 但是,这是小啤酒 相比我们所谈论的 现在以比利时为例 一个国家 |
| 537 | I love it's where I live for six years. | 我爱它的地方我住六年。 |
| 538 | It's small, but it's rich and you know how much they spent on defense | 它很小,但它很丰富 你知道他们花多少钱来防御 |
| 539 | 1% of about 600 billion of their GDP and 60% of that ladies and gentlemen is on pensions and salaries | 大约6000亿的GDP的1% 以及60%的女士们先生们 正在领取养老金和薪水 |
| 540 | So do the math less than 3 billion euros on the fence. | 因此,数学 不到30亿欧元 在围栏。 |
| 541 | It's a rounding error | 这是一个圆形错误 |
| 542 | It's a joke. | 这是一个笑话。 |
| 543 | They're not alone | 他们不孤单 |
| 544 | Spain spends about 1% slightly more of a much larger economy | 西班牙支出大约1%,略高于更大的经济。 |
| 545 | But recently Prime Minister Sanchez said there's no risk of russian tanks crossing the Pyrenees | 但最近总理桑切斯说 俄罗斯坦克不会越过比利牛斯山脉 |
| 546 | So why should we spend more money on defense? | 那么我们为什么要花更多的钱来防御? |
| 547 | Forget about european solidarity | 忘记欧洲团结 |
| 548 | Forget about the fact that spain is the largest | 忘了这个事实吧 斯宾是最大的 |
| 549 | beneficiary of eu money | eu 货币的受益人 |
| 550 | Italy country, I know well spends not much more than 1% either | 意大利国内,我很清楚开支也不超过1% |
| 551 | And it's meeting the nato 2% threshold by throwing a lot of expenses that are actually infrastructure and qualify them as defense | 它达到了2%的临界值 投了很多实际上属于基础设施的开支 并符合国防条件 |
| 552 | Let's be real | 让我们成为现实 |
| 553 | You in britain. | 你来这了 |
| 554 | Yes in the french have the two real armies in europe, but the cupboard even here | 在法国有两支真正的欧洲军队 但柜子就在这里 |
| 555 | Has been drawn down over decades. | 数十年来已经缩减。 |
| 556 | It's bare despite all the brave talk | 光着身子 光着身子 |
| 557 | Your capabilities are stretched | 你的能力很紧张 |
| 558 | Now it so happens. | 现在它如此发生。 |
| 559 | I met generals illusiony this morning | 今早我遇到幻觉将军 |
| 560 | in london | 在伦敦 |
| 561 | I'm pretty confident | 我相当自信 |
| 562 | That he would look to nato | 他一定会想着 |
| 563 | As the credible fighting force | 作为可靠的战斗力量 |
| 564 | And not to a european army | 而不是欧洲军队 |
| 565 | This man is the one who saved ukraine. | 这个人救了乌克赖恩 |
| 566 | I've been to ukraine six times since the war | 战后我去过六次乌克兰 |
| 567 | What matters is a credible fighting force who's going to be there to defend you? | 重要的是一支可靠的战斗部队 谁会在那里保卫你? |
| 568 | It's not going to be european army. | 它不会是欧洲军队。 |
| 569 | Now. | 现在 |
| 570 | Some of you may be thinking this is good as a long-term | 你们有些人可能觉得这样很长一段时间 |
| 571 | Objective just like the moonshot of john f kennedy | 目标就像约翰·肯尼迪的月光照 |
| 572 | But that's not the right metaphor | 但是,这不是正确的比喻 |
| 573 | Because in the united states even though john f kennedy had no idea how we were going to put a man on the moon | 因为在美国 即使John fennedy不知道 我们要怎么让一个人上月球 |
| 574 | At least it was a whole of country effort the whole country was united behind it | 至少这是整个国家的努力 整个国家都支持它 |
| 575 | Technological abilities that's not the case for a european army and it won't happen for the imaginal future partly because | 欧洲军队的技术能力并不是这样的 未来不会发生 部分原因是 |
| 576 | As I said budgets are stretched mark ruta nato secretary general said i'm quoting if europe really wants to go it alone | 正如我说的,预算是紧张的标记 ruta nauto总书记说,我引用 如果欧洲真的想独自去。 |
| 577 | Forget that you can ever get there with five percent defense spending it will be ten percent | 忘记你用百分之五的国防开支 就能达到百分之十 |
| 578 | Ten good luck with that | 10个好运气 |
| 579 | Good luck because public opinion in many countries | 好运,因为许多国家的舆论 |
| 580 | Doesn't perceive an external risk | 看不出有外部风险 |
| 581 | Even though we have a war on our frontiers and is brutal because i've seen it with my own eyes | 虽然我们有战争 在我们的边界, 和残酷 因为我已经亲眼看到它 |
| 582 | poll after poll shows that majority of europeans | 民意调查显示,大多数欧洲人 |
| 583 | Are actually not willing to come to the defense | 其实不情愿来辩护 |
| 584 | Of a fellow european country when attacked by a third party that's incredible | 一个被第三方袭击的欧洲同胞国家 |
| 585 | Military conscription is very tough highly controversial even in germany | 征兵很严厉,在德国也有争议 |
| 586 | Which is announced europe's most ambitious rearmament program. | 欧洲最雄心勃勃的重整军备计划 |
| 587 | It's finding incredibly hard to recruit soldiers. | 很难招募士兵 |
| 588 | So how | 怎么样 |
| 589 | on earth | 在地球上, |
| 590 | is | 这是 |
| 591 | An eu army going to come about even if the money could be found the reality will always persist | 即便找到钱 现实将永远存在 |
| 592 | That european countries will always have different views | 欧洲国家总是有不同的看法 |
| 593 | About their national interests | 关于他们的国家利益 |
| 594 | Each will have a different view | 每个都会有不同的看法 |
| 595 | About what justifies sending men young men and women? | 是什么理由派年轻男女来? |
| 596 | into battle | 战斗 |
| 597 | to be wounded | 受伤 |
| 598 | and to die | 与死亡 |
| 599 | And yes many administrations in the united states and many of europe too | 是的,美国许多政府 和许多欧洲人 |
| 600 | Have been correct to warn against a wasteful duplication of nato the backbone of transatlantic security | 警告不要浪费地重复跨大西洋安全的支柱是正确的 |
| 601 | A parallel european force outside nato would mean more bureaucracy | 外加欧洲力量 意味着更多的官僚主义 |
| 602 | A proliferation of command structures and that's waste we can't afford so my conclusion | 命令结构激增,这太浪费了,所以我的结论是 |
| 603 | Yes | 对 |
| 604 | Well donald trump is not going to exist forever he may think so but I agree | 甜甜圈不会永远存在 他可能会这么想 但我同意 |
| 605 | Confidence has been shaken | 信心受到动摇 |
| 606 | And my argument is that europe needs to consolidate, but where do you start? | 我的论点是,欧洲需要巩固, 但你从哪里开始? |
| 607 | So my argument is | 所以我的争论是 |
| 608 | Walk before you run | 走之前你跑开 |
| 609 | Consolidate the platforms of which there are many they're too many in europe | 巩固许多欧洲的平台 |
| 610 | There are multiple platforms too many far more five times more platforms in europe in the united states for jets | 在美国,欧洲有太多的平台 比飞机平台多五倍 |
| 611 | for tanks for armored | 装甲坦克 |
| 612 | vehicles | 车辆 |
| 613 | So all of this is necessary | 所以这一切都是必要的 |
| 614 | I'm just as shocked as you are | 我和你一样震惊 |
| 615 | About donald trump's positions, but I think steps may need to be taken walk before you run | 关于Donald的优势, 但我认为可能需要走步 在你跑之前 |
| 616 | Stop believing in unicorns ladies and gentlemen stop chasing moonbeams | 别再相信独角兽了 女士们先生们 别追月光了 |
| 617 | Spend more spend more wisely in defense | 花更多的钱来防御 |
| 618 | That's the real objective | 这是真正的目标 |
| 619 | Thanks. | 谢谢 |
| 620 | Next I would like to invite our final speaker for side proposition to the floor | 下面我请最后一位发言者发言。 |
| 621 | Madam president honorable | 尊敬的总统夫人 |
| 622 | members of this house | 本院成员 |
| 623 | my good friend tony gardener | 我的好朋友托尼园丁 |
| 624 | a wonderful voice | 一个美妙的声音 |
| 625 | calm soothing | 平静的舒缓 |
| 626 | telling us | 告诉我们 |
| 627 | not to dream | 不做梦 |
| 628 | Fairy tales unicorns. | 仙人传说独角兽. |
| 629 | It's a bunch of hogwash | 一群猪 |
| 630 | And then I imagine myself. | 然后,我想象自己。 |
| 631 | I'm old not that old | 我老了,没那么老 |
| 632 | 1942 | 1942 (英语). |
| 633 | europeans thinking | 欧洲人的思想 |
| 634 | That actually european countries could work together | 事实上,欧洲各国可以合作 |
| 635 | And argue about the shape and size of a proper carrot | 并争论一个合适的胡萝卜的形状和大小 |
| 636 | Rather than killing each other | 而不是互相残杀 |
| 637 | And what have we been doing in the european union for many years? | 多年来我们在欧洲的工会里做什么? |
| 638 | Not killing each other sometimes with boredom but arguing about the shape and the size of a cucumber cucumber to be sold | 不是有时用无聊来互相残杀 而是争辩要卖的黄瓜的形状和大小 |
| 639 | on the european market so without dreams | 在欧洲市场上,所以没有梦想 |
| 640 | You can never achieve anything | 你永远也做不了任何事 |
| 641 | And if you don't want to dream | 如果你不想做梦 |
| 642 | Look at the world we're living in | 看看我们生活的世界 |
| 643 | Look at the world. | 观世音. |
| 644 | We're living in | 我们住在 |
| 645 | It has radically changed | 它已经彻底改变了 |
| 646 | And I agree with one of the earlier speakers. | 我同意前面一位发言者的意见。 |
| 647 | I think irrevocably | 我觉得无可挽回 |
| 648 | The world that I grew up in the world that all of you grew up in | 我成长在你们成长的世界里 |
| 649 | Is changed and gone | 已经改变和消失 |
| 650 | that world was | 这个世界是 |
| 651 | post world war two | 二战结束后 |
| 652 | the united states | 美国 |
| 653 | Coming to the rescue again | 又来救援了 |
| 654 | Setting up nato | 设定 |
| 655 | 1949 | 1949 (英语). |
| 656 | and | 和 |
| 657 | underpinning | 基础 |
| 658 | all of europe's security | 欧洲的安全 |
| 659 | Well people can count it in different ways. | 人们可以用不同的方式计算。 |
| 660 | I come up to almost 80 years | 我快80岁了 |
| 661 | The us did defense | 我们确实做了辩护 |
| 662 | We in europe we built our social structures. | 我们欧洲人建立了我们的社会结构。 |
| 663 | We developed our economies | 我们发展了经济 |
| 664 | Make good wine quite good beer | 酿好酒,啤酒不错 |
| 665 | We did these things and the americans they did the heavy lifting | 我们做了这些 美国人做了重担 |
| 666 | We participated sure they asked us many of us come but | 我们参加过 他们肯定邀请我们很多人来 |
| 667 | Pretty much that was the order | 差不多是这个命令 |
| 668 | We in europe were not listening | 我们欧洲人没听 |
| 669 | when | 何时 |
| 670 | obama said | 奥巴玛说 |
| 671 | You guys should pay more take care of yourselves in defense | 你们应该多付点防御费 |
| 672 | We were not listening when trump the first | 我们没有听 当战胜第一个 |
| 673 | Was saying the same thing | 刚才也是这么说的 |
| 674 | We were not listening when joe biden was saying the same thing. | 乔·巴登也这么说的时候 我们没在听 |
| 675 | He's he's very polite man. | 他很有礼貌 |
| 676 | I | 一、导 言 |
| 677 | Met him quite a number of times | 见过他很多次了 |
| 678 | But now donald trump comes into office. | 但是现在唐纳的王牌上台了 |
| 679 | He says it in a way that is | 他这么说的方式是 |
| 680 | Well, shall we say new | 那么,我们说新的 |
| 681 | scared everyone | 吓着大家了 |
| 682 | But it's the same message | 但这是同一个消息 |
| 683 | The us has been saying for years and years europe needs to take care of itself | 我们多年来一直说 欧洲需要照顾自己 |
| 684 | Why because the us wants to focus its military strategy its forces its assets | 为什么我们想把军事战略 集中到它的兵力中去 |
| 685 | into the pacific | 进入太平洋 |
| 686 | Read the national security strategy read the national defense strategy | 将国家安全战略读作国防战略 |
| 687 | Both of these documents stated black and white you don't have to be scared of trump or not scared of trump | 这两份文件都写了黑白两字 你不必害怕比武 也不必害怕比武 |
| 688 | It's a policy | 这是政策 |
| 689 | So what we have to decide in europe is | 所以,我们必须决定 欧洲是 |
| 690 | What is our goal then? | 那么我们的目标是什么? |
| 691 | I say the goal is very simple to ensure | 我说目标很简单 |
| 692 | peace and stability in europe | 欧洲的和平与稳定 |
| 693 | even | 连 |
| 694 | In the situation if the us is no longer there | 如果现在我们不在的话 |
| 695 | That doesn't mean that we expect the us to leave or that we want the us to leave | 这并不意味着我们期望我们离开 或者我们希望我们离开 |
| 696 | But we have to deal with the fact that the us is telling us | 但我们必须面对事实 我们告诉我们 |
| 697 | They want to leave | 他们想离开 |
| 698 | And maybe we should start believing them | 也许我们应该开始相信他们 |
| 699 | Which means maybe we should start changing our thinking and our plans | 这意味着也许我们应该开始改变我们的思维和计划 |
| 700 | So it's not an either or a european army or nato or us army | 所以不是欧洲军队 也不是我们军队 |
| 701 | No in europe, we want to continue working with the us within the nato framework | 不是欧洲人,我们想继续和我们合作 |
| 702 | But we have to listen to what the americans are saying | 但我们得听美国人说的话 |
| 703 | They want us to do it. | 他们要我们这样做。 |
| 704 | They want to do other things | 他们想做别的事 |
| 705 | So how could we do it? | 那么,我们如何做到这一点? |
| 706 | There are a number of of reactions we could have to this changed world | 我们可能会对这个变化的世界 做出一些反应 |
| 707 | Where the us is no longer wanting to underwrite it all | 我们不再愿意承担一切 |
| 708 | one is | 一个是 |
| 709 | Basically stick our heads in the sand. | 基本上我们的头在沙子上。 |
| 710 | That's what the | 就是这样 |
| 711 | Opposition is basically saying | 反对派基本上是说 |
| 712 | Come on, you have to work with the americans, you know, of course we want to work with the americans | 来吧,你必须工作 美国人,你知道,我们当然想 与美国人合作 |
| 713 | But if we continue to stick our heads in the sand | 但如果我们继续把头插在沙子上 |
| 714 | Then we can have a situation | 那我们就有麻烦了 |
| 715 | where say the russians make a | 哪里说,俄罗斯人制造 |
| 716 | relatively small incursion | 相对较小的入侵 |
| 717 | Some part of the east many countries now | 东部的部分地区,现在许多国家 |
| 718 | Uh in nato, uh bordering russia and they they do something small maybe maybe 20 | 呃,在纳托,呃 边界俄罗斯 他们做一些小事 也许20 |
| 719 | Sort of soldiers, maybe they're green. | 有点士兵,也许他们是绿色的。 |
| 720 | Maybe they're dressed in black. | 也许他们穿黑色衣服。 |
| 721 | I don't know. | 师曰. |
| 722 | They have the face masks | 他们有面具 |
| 723 | No one really knows who they are. | 没人知道他们是谁 |
| 724 | Everyone denies everything. | 每个人都否认一切 |
| 725 | It's not really an incursion | 这不是真的入侵 |
| 726 | Well, they took over a police station or a city hall or or something and and and the us says | 他们接管了警察局或者市政厅什么的 然后我们说 |
| 727 | This is not something I want to deal with | 这不是我想处理的事 |
| 728 | you guys | 你们 |
| 729 | deal with it | 处理它 |
| 730 | Now a coalition of the willing | 现在一个自愿的联盟 |
| 731 | 还有U.s. 已经使用 NATO | |
| 732 | by the way, the only time article 5 was enacted was after 9 11 by the u.s and | 顺便说一下,第5条颁布的唯一时间是911之后,由美国和 |
| 733 | european nato partners | 欧洲伙伴 |
| 734 | responded | 回应 |
| 735 | But there have been other instances where european nato partners have not been willing to go along and the u.s | 但还有其他欧洲伙伴不愿加入的事例。 |
| 736 | Has said okay | 已经说好的 |
| 737 | We'll we're gonna go who's coming with us a coalition of the willing led by the u.s | 我们要去谁和我们一起走 一个由我们领导的自愿联盟 |
| 738 | Can work militarily why because of the u.s overwhelming military capabilities relative to everyone else | 军事上可以工作 为什么因为你拥有压倒一切的军事能力 |
| 739 | Now imagine a coalition of the willing without the u.s | 现在想象一下,一个联盟 自愿者没有U. |
| 740 | Currently the way that european militaries are structured weak at best | 目前欧洲军队结构最薄弱 |
| 741 | weak at best | 虚弱最多 |
| 742 | so | 这样 |
| 743 | If saying as it is is not an option | 如果说它不是一个选择 |
| 744 | Well, then let's create a european army say skubelius says the current commissioner the new commissioner for | 那么,让我们建立一个欧洲军队 说斯库贝利乌斯说现任专员 新专员为 |
| 745 | I've forgotten his title all of a sudden for for military affairs in europe | 我突然忘了他的头衔 因为欧洲的军事事务 |
| 746 | Readed it. | 读过 |
| 747 | He's he's a great man. | 他是一个伟大的人。 |
| 748 | I met him recently spoke with him | 我最近和他谈过话 |
| 749 | But there's a fundamental problem to the way the proposition of the european army is being spoken about | 但欧洲军队的主张 究竟如何被说成是根本问题 |
| 750 | It is assuming that europe remains as it is | 假设欧洲依然如此 |
| 751 | And we just add an army | 我们只是加了一支军队 |
| 752 | So then decisions in europe say on this army's usage would be the same as any other decision in europe | 所以欧洲的决定 说这支军队的用法 跟欧洲的其他决定一样 |
| 753 | I've sat at the council table for almost five years and can say from firsthand experience | 我坐了将近五年的议会议席 从第一手经验来看 |
| 754 | The decision-making process is sub-optimal in europe | 欧洲的决策过程不够理想 |
| 755 | It's frustrating. | 令人沮丧 |
| 756 | It's not easy to spend two or three nights | 花两三个晚上不容易 |
| 757 | Basically pulling all-nighters like you guys do it, but you're students | 基本上拉通宵 喜欢你们这样做,但你们是学生 |
| 758 | Prime ministers and presidents are often a little bit older | 总理和总统往往年纪稍大一点 |
| 759 | You need unanimity around the table | 你需要在桌子上达成一致 |
| 760 | And unanimity is very difficult to attain certainly when lives are at stake my soldiers your soldiers someone's going to die. | 而当生命处于危险之中时 一致是很难实现的... ...你的士兵会死 |
| 761 | Wait a minute | 单 |
| 762 | so | 这样 |
| 763 | I say | 我说 |
| 764 | That actually the way that we're thinking or the way that european army is being spoken about especially from the from the opposition | 这实际上是我们思考的方式 或者说欧洲军队被谈论的方式 尤其是来自反对派 |
| 765 | Is the wrong way to think about it | 考虑这个问题是错误的 |
| 766 | You don't put the cart in front of the horse. | 你不把车放在马前。 |
| 767 | I think you need to put the horse in front of the cart | 我想你应该把马放在车前 |
| 768 | It generally tends to work a little better | 一般都比较好 |
| 769 | so | 这样 |
| 770 | If you can't stay as is and you can't just make european army, well, that's a conundrum. | 如果你不能保持原状 也不能让欧洲军队,那么,这是一个难题。 |
| 771 | How do you get around it? | 你怎么绕过它? |
| 772 | Well, the way to get around it is sort of the obvious way to get around it | 绕过它的方式是显而易见的 |
| 773 | There's a word that hasn't come out tonight | 今晚有个字还没出来 |
| 774 | Federalization oops | 联邦化 |
| 775 | Federalization careful glad i'm not a politician anymore. | 联邦化很谨慎 很高兴我不再是政治家了 |
| 776 | I'd be clobbered | 我会被痛击 |
| 777 | The european union actually has some very powerful elements which are federal in their nature | 欧洲人工会实际上有一些非常强大的 具有联邦性质的因素 |
| 778 | customs union | 关税同盟 |
| 779 | competition rules trade rules | 贸易规则 |
| 780 | If your company comes under the scope of the competition | 如果你的公司属于竞争范围 |
| 781 | commissioner | 专员 |
| 782 | You are going to be in trouble | 你会有麻烦的 |
| 783 | There's not a lot of negotiation | 谈判不多 |
| 784 | There's not a lot of haggling not 27 heads of state coming together. | 没有太多的争吵 没有27个国家元首走到一起。 |
| 785 | Will we find google? | 我们会找到谷歌吗? |
| 786 | Will we not we don't even know who's being fined or what's being fined because there's a system | 我们甚至不知道谁被罚款 或者什么被罚款 因为有一个系统 |
| 787 | There are laws and those laws are either adhered here to or not | 这里有法律,有的遵守,有的不遵守 |
| 788 | so if you put federalization pulling together first it gives you the the | 所以,如果你把联邦化 首先拉在一起,它给你 |
| 789 | The steps that would need to be taken and can be taken because they have in other areas | 需要采取和可以采取的步骤,因为这些步骤在其他领域 |
| 790 | Namely in defense move in the federal direction there ultimately you'd probably want to go | 也就是说,在防守中向联邦方向移动 最终你可能想走 |
| 791 | Further and when you think about sovereignty, that's something that the opposition talked a lot about in the beginning | 更进一步,当你想到主权的时候, 这是反对派在一开始经常谈论的 |
| 792 | Sovereign of what? | 什么主权? |
| 793 | I am king of what country? | 我是哪个国家的国王? |
| 794 | Russia is the threat | 俄国才是威胁 |
| 795 | russia attacks | 俄罗斯袭击 |
| 796 | the us | 我们 |
| 797 | For various reasons doesn't want to respond. | 由于各种原因,不愿回应. |
| 798 | I don't know doesn't want to escalate to a nuclear war an argument like that | 我不知道不想升级到核战争 这样的论点 |
| 799 | Europe lacks an army | 欧洲缺乏军队 |
| 800 | That country which is being attacked is faced alone | 被攻击的国家独自面对 |
| 801 | That country whatever it is could not succeed | 这个国家无论怎样都不可能成功 |
| 802 | so we have | 所以我们有 |
| 803 | In a sense to dream | 在梦中 |
| 804 | but to dream based on what actually works | 但梦想基于什么 实际工作 |
| 805 | federalize | 联邦化 |
| 806 | Create the structures to create an army and be prepared for the day | 建立组织来建立一支军队,为今天做好准备 |
| 807 | If and when the u.s leaves that we will still be standing | 如果当我们离开时 我们依然站着 |
| 808 | Thank you very much | 非常感谢 |
| 809 | Next I would like to call upon a member from the audience to deliver a floor speech for | 接下来,我请一位听众发言。 |
| 810 | side proposition | 边命题 |
| 811 | Uh yassin | 亚辛 |
| 812 | I would like to uh first before I even begin | 我想在开始之前先说 |
| 813 | Look back at american history | 回首美国历史 |
| 814 | We speak about sovereignty there were 13 colonies with each of their own militias facing this evil threat of the british king | 我们谈论主权,那里有13个殖民地,每个殖民地都有自己的民兵,面对着英国国王的邪恶威胁。 |
| 815 | And they're all fighting the same enemy | 他们都在和同一个敌人作战 |
| 816 | And yet they had the same problems that we do in europe today | 但他们有同样的问题 我们今天在欧洲做的 |
| 817 | They had their own state governments their own traditions and their own disagreements and now | 他们有自己的州政府 他们自己的传统 和他们自己的分歧 现在 |
| 818 | Roughly 250 years later. | 大约250年后 |
| 819 | They are the world hegemon | 他们是世界霸王 |
| 820 | superpower | 超级大国 |
| 821 | And I agree with what our friend here from latvia said earlier that federalization is the obvious route | 我同意我们这位来自拉特维亚的朋友刚才说的 联邦化是显而易见的路线 |
| 822 | But one key element obviously is what is our sovereignty in europe today? | 但一个关键要素显然是我们今天在欧洲的主权是什么? |
| 823 | I don't know how many european citizens are in this room | 我不知道这房间里有多少欧洲公民 |
| 824 | But I can tell you that sovereignty is actually not as national or not as it is | 但我可以告诉你, 主权实际上不是像国家或没有 |
| 825 | For example immigration law. | 例如,移民法。 |
| 826 | I am in this country when it used to be in the european union | 我在这国家,当它曾经是 欧洲联盟 |
| 827 | Because it ceded its sovereignty to a common immigration law that allowed for free movement on defense | 因为它将主权让给了允许防卫自由行动的共同移民法 |
| 828 | The eu not even nato has article 42 | eu甚至没有第42条 |
| 829 | Bracket seven that says any member state that is under attack has an obligation | 说任何受攻击的成员国都有义务 |
| 830 | To both ask and receive aid from any eu member state in any capacity | 以任何身份向任何欧盟成员国索取和接受援助 |
| 831 | And thirdly and more interesting than any of this is that the proposition is suggesting | 第三,比这更有趣的是 提议是 |
| 832 | Very sane arguments and propositions, but the opposition has ignored one key fact | 但反对派忽略了一个关键事实, |
| 833 | How can you actually enforce your own national laws political objectives or foreign policies? | 怎样才能真正执行自己的国家法律政治目标或外交政策? |
| 834 | If you are so weak and divided that yes, we have 150 defense platforms | 如果你这么软弱 分得那么好 我们有150个防御平台 |
| 835 | But because we have no common army everyone buys a separate thing | 但因为我们没有共同的军队 每个人都会买另外的东西 |
| 836 | And on a second point when you want to spend more on defense as the americans often tell us to do so | 在第二点上,你想花更多的时间 用于防御,因为美国人经常告诉我们这样做 |
| 837 | Everybody buys their own thing | 每个人都买自己的东西 |
| 838 | Wouldn't it be more wise to collectively pull our defenses into one? | 将我们的防守合二为一 是不是更明智? |
| 839 | Into a system where we have already ceded so much sovereignty and built such a great thing | 进入一个我们已经放弃了这么多主权的体系 并建立了这样一个伟大的东西 |
| 840 | That is the european union that we have today to defend it and not only that | 这就是我们今天要捍卫的欧洲联盟,而不仅仅是 |
| 841 | Many europeans today, especially after the ukraine war and especially after the president of the united states recent antics regarding a frozen ice sheet | 今天许多欧洲人,特别是乌克兰战争后 特别是美国总统最近对冰盖冰盖的愤怒 |
| 842 | Have come to the realization and support of a common european defense position | 来到了欧洲共同防御阵地 |
| 843 | Isn't it more rational for us to come together and defend what we have than to stand apart and let be eaten one by one? | 我们聚集在一起捍卫我们所拥有的东西, 是否比一个一个地被吃掉更合理? |
| 844 | On that note, I support strongly the proposition tonight. | 在这方面,我坚决支持今晚的提议。 |
| 845 | Thank you | 谢谢 |
| 846 | any speakers for opposition and | 任何反对者或 |
| 847 | Well much of what the proposition has said it sounds great in theory | 大部分建议 说它听起来在理论上很好 |
| 848 | Theory will only take you so far | 理论只会带你走这么远 |
| 849 | I find that there are too many unasked questions and therefore unanswered questions from the proposition to begin considering it | 我发现有太多没有问到的问题, 因此,没有回答的问题 从提案开始考虑 |
| 850 | First of all, there's a lot of talk about unity from the proposition. | 首先,从命题上谈统一问题,有不少说法. |
| 851 | What does unity mean? | 团结是什么意思? |
| 852 | What countries do we have as part of this united european army? | 作为这个统一的欧洲军队的一部分,我们有哪些国家? |
| 853 | The european union that excludes too many countries to truly be united european army | 欧洲联盟排斥太多国家 无法真正成为欧洲军队 |
| 854 | Europe? | 欧洲? |
| 855 | What about transcontinental countries? | 跨洲国家怎么办? |
| 856 | Russia? | 俄罗斯? |
| 857 | Kazakhstan? | 哈萨克斯坦? |
| 858 | Those are transcontinental, | 这些是洲际的 |
| 859 | do they get to participate? | 他们能参加吗? |
| 860 | Let's say Belarus. | 说白俄罗斯. |
| 861 | Do we consider them a Russian conspirator? | 我们是否认为他们是俄国阴谋家? |
| 862 | Are they part of this army? | 他们是这支军队的一部分吗? |
| 863 | What about Brexit? | 布莱克西特呢? |
| 864 | How does that factor in? | 这个因素如何? |
| 865 | Micro states that | 微博称: |
| 866 | can't really afford an army. | 买不起军队 |
| 867 | The Vatican City, San Marino, Andorra, it goes on. | 梵蒂冈城,圣马力诺,安道尔,它继续. |
| 868 | Who are we | 我们是谁? |
| 869 | considering part of this united European army? | 考虑加入欧洲军队吗? |
| 870 | What if a country doesn't want to | 如果一个国家不想 |
| 871 | participate? | 参与? |
| 872 | Switzerland, say. | 瑞士,说。 |
| 873 | They're historically neutral. | 它们在历史上是中立的. |
| 874 | Does that inherently weaken or undermine | 这是否必然削弱或破坏 |
| 875 | the whole point of a united European army? | 统一欧洲军队的全部意义? |
| 876 | And if they can't send any soldiers or don't | 如果他们不能派出任何士兵或不 |
| 877 | want to send soldiers, do they still get protection? | 想派士兵来,他们还有保护吗? |
| 878 | These are questions. | 这些都是问题。 |
| 879 | What if two countries | 如果两个国家 |
| 880 | get into a dispute that diplomacy can't solve? | 陷入外交无法解决的争端? |
| 881 | Or someone decides to pull a Russia? | 还是有人决定拉俄罗斯? |
| 882 | So soldiers | 所以,士兵们 |
| 883 | from these nations are now part of a united European army. | 这些国家现在是一支统一的欧洲军队的一部分。 |
| 884 | How do you decide which side | 你怎么决定哪一边 |
| 885 | of this conflict you back? | 你回来的这场冲突? |
| 886 | Do you remain neutral? | 你保持中立吗? |
| 887 | If so, what's the point? | 如果是的话,有什么意义? |
| 888 | If you don't | 如果你没有 |
| 889 | remain neutral, what about soldiers who find themselves on the opposing side of whatever | 保持中立,那些发现自己在反面 |
| 890 | side this new united European army takes? | 这支新的欧洲联合军队的进攻? |
| 891 | What do they do? | 他们做什么的? |
| 892 | And does this put the Ukraine | 这使得乌克兰 |
| 893 | at risk? | 冒险? |
| 894 | Russia has already demanded that Ukraine be kept out of NATO forever. | 俄罗斯已经要求永远不让乌克兰加入北约。 |
| 895 | Does | 对 |
| 896 | the united European army involving Ukraine become a sign of aggression? | 涉及乌克兰的欧洲军队联合成为侵略的标志? |
| 897 | A motive for a | 一个动机 |
| 898 | new Russian assault? | 新的俄罗斯攻击? |
| 899 | If we exclude Ukraine, this goes back to the earlier point. | 如果我们把乌克兰排除在外,这可追溯到早些时候。 |
| 900 | No troops, | 没有军队 |
| 901 | no protection. | 没有保护。 |
| 902 | Is this truly a united European army? | 这真的是一支统一的欧洲军队吗? |
| 903 | These are all points that the proposition | 这些都是要点 命题 |
| 904 | has failed to consider and failed to answer. | 未能考虑和答复。 |
| 905 | Therefore, I must say we have to vote for the | 因此,我必须说,我们必须投票支持 |
| 906 | opposition here. | 在这里反对。 |
| 907 | There are not enough specifics on this united European army. | 关于这支统一的欧洲军队,没有足够的具体细节. |
| 908 | It is, as one | 这是,作为一个 |
| 909 | of the speakers said, a unicorn. | 说,独角兽。 |
| 910 | Perhaps a great unicorn, but one that we do not have | 也许是一个伟大的独角兽, 但我们没有 |
| 911 | enough information to adequately support. | 足够的信息足以支持。 |
| 912 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 913 | I would like to invite our final | 我想请我们最后 |
| 914 | speaker for side opposition to the floor, Mr Hans Deepak. | 汉斯·迪帕克先生,请发言反对发言。 |
| 915 | By the time I finish this | 当我完成这个的时候 |
| 916 | sentence, Russia will have sent five artillery shells screaming towards Ukrainian lines. | 俄国会派五枚炮弹向乌克兰防线开火 |
| 917 | Europe will have produced one shell. | 欧洲将生产出一枚炮弹。 |
| 918 | Ukraine will have fired zero. | 乌克兰将发射0。 |
| 919 | This proposition asks | 这个提议要求 |
| 920 | us to place the hopes of a continent on a European army. | 我们把大陆的希望寄托在欧洲军队上。 |
| 921 | An army that is a bargain purchased | 一支买来的军队 |
| 922 | at the cost of the masticated corpses of the Ukrainian people. | 牺牲了乌克兰人民的雕塑尸体 |
| 923 | History is littered with | 历史充满了 |
| 924 | the mistakes of leaders misguided by the likes of proposition. | 领导人的错误被命题所误导 |
| 925 | Leaders who chose the easy | 选择容易的领导人 |
| 926 | thing, the simple thing, the obvious thing, the thing that felt good and could be bought | 事情,简单的事情, 显而易见的事情, 感觉好,可以买到的东西 |
| 927 | into. | 进入。 |
| 928 | But make no mistake, those who choose the easy over the demanding do master disaster | 但你们不要误入歧途,他们舍艰难而选择容易者,确是主宰灾难的。 |
| 929 | while singing the hollow gospel of unity. | 唱着团结的空洞福音 |
| 930 | There are three parts to this speech. | 此演说有三部. |
| 931 | First, | 首先,我们... |
| 932 | I'm going to talk about American support and Ukraine. | 我要谈谈美国的支持和乌克兰。 |
| 933 | Second, I will talk about the effectiveness | 第二,我要谈谈效果 |
| 934 | of a European army or rather the lack thereof. | 欧洲军队的缺乏。 |
| 935 | And third, I will talk about how this will | 第三,我会说这个会怎样 |
| 936 | actually gut the European defense industrial base. | 实际上切断了欧洲国防工业基地。 |
| 937 | And by the end of it, I think you'll | 到最后,我觉得你会 |
| 938 | be fairly convinced to vote for the opposition. | 要公平地说服反对派。 |
| 939 | Firstly then, let's talk about America and | 首先,让我们谈谈美国和 |
| 940 | Ukraine. | 乌克兰。 |
| 941 | Because down proposition bench, we hear that America is now unreliable, that | 我们听说美国现在不可靠 |
| 942 | Trump is very bad and scary and that therefore Europe must be sovereign and must establish | 特朗普非常糟糕和可怕,因此欧洲必须拥有主权,必须建立 |
| 943 | its own army. | 它自己的军队。 |
| 944 | There are two structural reasons why this is not true. | 有两个结构上的原因,这是不正确的。 |
| 945 | First, Donald Trump | 首先,唐纳德·特朗普 |
| 946 | of now is not the Donald Trump of the election campaign of 2024. | 现在不是2024年竞选运动的唐纳德·特朗普。 |
| 947 | He is deeply frustrated | 他很沮丧 |
| 948 | by Vladimir Putin because he wanted to play peacemaker in Ukraine. | 由弗拉基米尔·普京(Vladimir Putin)执导,因为他想在乌克兰扮演和平缔造者. |
| 949 | But now that there | 但是现在 |
| 950 | is clearly no peace in sight and Putin and the Russians are not serious about making | 普京和俄国人不是认真的 |
| 951 | peace, he views it as a personal affront that they keep on bombing Ukraine when he has asked | 和平,他认为这是个人的冒犯 当他要求轰炸乌克兰时 |
| 952 | them not to. | 他们不这样做。 |
| 953 | Second, possibly the most powerful man in the United States of America after | 第二,可能是美国最有权势的人 |
| 954 | Donald Trump, that is Secretary of State and Acting National Security Advisor Marco Rubio, | 唐纳德·特朗普 国务卿兼代理国家安全顾问 马可·鲁比奥 |
| 955 | is a committed Russia hawk who is committed to supporting Ukraine and ending the Russian | 承诺支持乌克兰和终结俄罗斯的鹰派 |
| 956 | threat once and for all. | 一劳永逸的威胁。 |
| 957 | He has sponsored legislation that would necessitate a two-thirds | 他赞助了立法,要求三分之二 |
| 958 | congressional majority for the U.S. to leave NATO. | 国会多数赞成美国退出北约. |
| 959 | So if there is concern about the U.S. | 所以如果有人担心美国 |
| 960 | leaving NATO, that's not happening anytime soon, perhaps not in our lifetimes. | 离开北约,这不会很快发生, 也许在我们生命中也不会发生。 |
| 961 | But I | 不过 |
| 962 | look at American policy actions on Russia for a second. | 看看美国对俄罗斯的政策行动 |
| 963 | Because note, Donald Trump has | 因为注解,唐纳德·特朗普 |
| 964 | backed down over Greenland without much concrete action because even the vast majority of Republicans | 因为即使是绝大多数共和党人 |
| 965 | understood that trying to seize Greenland by force, which would lead to the dissolution | 理解到试图以武力夺取格陵兰,从而导致格陵兰解体 |
| 966 | of NATO, was frankly a ludicrous proposal, which is why, taco, Trump always chickens | 坦白地说,这是个可笑的提议, 这就是为什么,塔科,特朗普总是鸡。 |
| 967 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}当然 | |
| 968 | But what has America actually done? | 但美国到底做了什么? |
| 969 | In 2025, the Trump administration has | 2025年,特朗普政府 |
| 970 | not removed nor relaxed any of the main sanctions currently in place against Russia. | 没有取消或放松目前对俄罗斯的任何主要制裁。 |
| 971 | Far from | 远 |
| 972 | it, secondary sanctions in the forms of tariffs against countries that have continued to | 以关税形式对继续 |
| 973 | purchase Russian oil have been introduced. | 已推出俄罗斯石油采购。 |
| 974 | See how India, for example, was forced to | 例如,见印度如何被迫 |
| 975 | cut Russian oil imports after a 50 percent tariff was imposed last October. | 在去年10月征收50%的关税后, |
| 976 | That same | 同样 |
| 977 | month, the U.S. directly sanctioned Russia's two largest oil companies, Rosneft and Lukoil, | 月,美国直接制裁俄罗斯的两家最大的石油公司,罗斯内夫特和卢科伊尔, |
| 978 | due to a, and I quote, lack of serious commitment to a peace process to end the war in Ukraine. | 原因是,我引述的是,对结束乌克兰战争的和平进程缺乏认真的承诺。 |
| 979 | In its seizure of oil tankers as part of its intervention in Venezuela, the U.S. has seized | 美国在委内瑞拉的干预中扣押了油轮。 |
| 980 | Russian flag vessels carrying thousands of barrels of sanctioned oil. | 俄罗斯旗舰装载数千桶制裁石油. |
| 981 | Now, you might think | 现在,你可能会认为 |
| 982 | that the American administration is morally reprehensible, that its actions are callous, | 美国政府在道德上是应受谴责的,它的行动是无情的, |
| 983 | cruel, destabilizing, illegal even. | 残忍,破坏稳定,甚至非法。 |
| 984 | But the logic is clear. | 但逻辑是明确的。 |
| 985 | Currently, they are on side | 现在,他们站在一边 |
| 986 | because they have cold, hard strategic reasons to do so. | 因为他们有冷酷, 硬的战略理由这样做。 |
| 987 | And so they might bluster, but at | 他们可能会大吵大闹,但是... |
| 988 | the end of the day, they are committed, which is why there are still 84,000 American troops | 所以还有8万4千美军 |
| 989 | in Europe, including many at Rammstein Air Force Base near my hometown of Wiesbaden in | 包括许多在兰姆斯坦空军基地 靠近我的家乡威斯巴登 |
| 990 | southwestern Germany. | 德国西南部. |
| 991 | The point is clear. | 这一点是明确的。 |
| 992 | If we find the people in charge of the most | 如果我们找到最负责的人 |
| 993 | powerful military on earth to be erratic and distasteful, the smart thing to do is to keep | 强大的军事力量在地球上是不稳定和令人厌恶的, 明智的做法是保持 |
| 994 | them on our side while we build up our strategic independence, not to give them the metaphorical | 在我们建立战略独立的同时,他们站在我们一边,而不是给他们一个比喻 |
| 995 | finger and say we're going to go it alone. | 说我们自己去 |
| 996 | Because if you read the actual national security | 因为如果你读到真正的国家安全 |
| 997 | document of this year, the American National Security Strategy, you will note that they | 今年的美国国家安全战略文件 你们将注意到 |
| 998 | want their cake and they eat, and they want to have their cake and eat it too. | 想要他们的蛋糕,他们吃, 他们想要他们的蛋糕,吃它。 |
| 999 | That is | 这是 |
| 1000 | America wants to retain significant investment in Europe and continues to see Europe as a | 美国希望在欧洲保留大量投资,并继续将欧洲视为 |
| 1001 | significant trading partner, but also wants Europe to step up for defense. | 重要的贸易伙伴,但也希望欧洲加强防御。 |
| 1002 | The worst thing | 最差劲的事 |
| 1003 | Europe could do to this American perception is to tell America that they don't need America | 欧洲可以改变美国的看法 就是告诉美国 他们不需要美国 |
| 1004 | anymore and are willing to go it completely alone. | 并愿意完全独自去。 |
| 1005 | That would be a slap in the face of | 那将会是一巴掌面对 |
| 1006 | Trump's ego. | 特朗普的自负. |
| 1007 | And that is when you get erratic decisions that end up harming European security. | 这时你得到的不稳定的决定 最终会损害欧洲的安全。 |
| 1008 | But it's not just Trump, right? | 但不只是特朗普 对吧? |
| 1009 | Because Trump is not the only right-wing populist elephant | 因为川普不是唯一的右翼民粹主义大象 |
| 1010 | in the room. | 在房间里。 |
| 1011 | I think Mr. Cristiano sort of let the cat out of the bag. | 克里斯蒂安诺先生好像把猫从袋子里放了 |
| 1012 | It was a bit of | 有点 |
| 1013 | a Freudian slip where he said that if he was still a politician, talk of federalization | 佛洛伊德滑稽,他说如果他还是政治家, 谈论联邦化 |
| 1014 | would have gotten him pilloried, and quite rightly so. | 本来会把他弄得一团糟的 |
| 1015 | Because right now, we see national | 因为现在,我们看到国家 |
| 1016 | rally polling at 34% in France promising to withdraw from NATO if they come into power. | 在法国的34%的集会投票中, |
| 1017 | These are the people currently projected to hold power in France two years from now. | 这些人民目前预计在两年后在法国掌权。 |
| 1018 | In | 内 |
| 1019 | Germany, the AFD is the single most popular party by certain polls. | 德国,联邦民主党是某些民意测验中最受欢迎的单一政党. |
| 1020 | It's polling at 23% | 票价为23% |
| 1021 | demanding that sanctions on Russia be ended. | 要求结束对俄罗斯的制裁。 |
| 1022 | So if your solution to people being discontent | 所以如果你解决人们的不满 |
| 1023 | with federalization and voting for far-right lunatics who like Russia and are in bed with | 联邦化和投票给那些 喜欢俄罗斯的极右翼疯子 |
| 1024 | Putin is more federalization, then I think proposition has a rude awakening in store | 普京更倾向于联邦化,然后我觉得命题有粗鲁的觉醒 |
| 1025 | for them. | 为了他们 |
| 1026 | What is the implication of this? | 这有什么影响? |
| 1027 | If they want to talk about Ukrainian lives, | 如果他们想谈论乌克兰人的生活 |
| 1028 | they are hypocrites. | 他们是伪君子。 |
| 1029 | That is the implication of this. | 这就是这一点的含义。 |
| 1030 | I want to note what a complete American | 我想指出,一个完全的美国人 |
| 1031 | decoupling and a reduction in European support for Ukraine would look like. | 脱钩和减少欧洲对乌克兰的支持看来会是这样。 |
| 1032 | It looks like | 看起来像 |
| 1033 | no targeting data from American satellites. | 没有来自美国卫星的目标数据。 |
| 1034 | Satellites, which Europe does not have a home | 欧洲没有家的卫星 |
| 1035 | run alternative to. | 运行替代。 |
| 1036 | This cripples the ability of Ukrainian forces to launch long and intermediate | 这削弱了乌克兰部队发动长程和中程进攻的能力 |
| 1037 | train strikes against Russian targets. | 火车攻击俄国目标 |
| 1038 | It means that Ukrainians are blind to when exactly | 意思是乌克兰人对何时 |
| 1039 | it is that Russian missiles are launched against civilian centers. | 是俄罗斯向民用中心发射导弹 |
| 1040 | You lose the ability to | 你丧失了能力 |
| 1041 | detect the approach of Russian bombers and warplanes as they take off inside Russia. | 探测俄国轰炸机和战机在俄国境内起飞时的接近情况。 |
| 1042 | As a result, Ukraine has less time to warn civilians and military personnel about the | 因此,乌克兰没有多少时间向平民和军事人员发出警告。 |
| 1043 | And we know what happens because we have seen this happen in the past. | 我们知道会发生什么,因为我们过去见过这种情况。 |
| 1044 | When American intelligence | 当美国情报 |
| 1045 | sharing to Ukraine was cut off for a few days in March of 2025, hundreds of Ukrainian troops | 2025年3月,数以百计的乌克兰军队被切断了几天的共享权 |
| 1046 | were encircled, cut off and destroyed in the Kursk pocket inside Russia. | 在俄罗斯境内的库尔斯克口袋中被包围、切断和摧毁。 |
| 1047 | The price they | 他们的价钱 |
| 1048 | paid was in Ukrainian lives. | 薪水在乌克兰人生活中。 |
| 1049 | Over the long term, a reduction in military assistance to | 长期而言,减少对 |
| 1050 | Ukraine, which would be caused by a resurgence in the populist right that their policy causes, | 乌克兰,将因民粹主义重新抬头而引起,而民粹主义是其政策的原因, |
| 1051 | would be damning. | 这将是该死的。 |
| 1052 | Why is this the case? | 为什么这样? |
| 1053 | Let's just talk about the U.S. contribution for | 让我们来谈谈美国为 |
| 1054 | America has provided Patriot air defense batteries, high Mars, high mobility artillery rocket systems | 美国提供了爱国者防空电池,高火星,高机动性火炮火箭系统 |
| 1055 | and ATACMs, long range missiles, Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, along with the spare parts | 导弹、布拉德利步兵战车以及零部件 |
| 1056 | to keep all these machines of war running. | 让战争机器运转起来 |
| 1057 | When this supply stops, you will first lose | 等补给停止了,你就先输了 |
| 1058 | the ability to replace losses. | 能够弥补损失。 |
| 1059 | Then you will lose the spare parts to keep the equipment | 然后,你会失去零件 保存设备 |
| 1060 | in service running. | 服务运行。 |
| 1061 | Now, the Ukrainian people will fight on because the Ukrainian people | 现在,乌克兰人民会继续战斗 因为乌克兰人民 |
| 1062 | are resolute and brave and they're fighting for heart and home, but the cost would become | 坚定而勇敢 他们为心和家而战 但代价会变成 |
| 1063 | unconscionable. | 不可思议. |
| 1064 | And this is the single most important argument in this debate because | 这是这场辩论中最重要的论点,因为 |
| 1065 | even if you are unclear as to whether or not a European army is feasible in theory, the | 即使你不清楚欧洲军队在理论上是否可行, |
| 1066 | point is steps to move towards a European army in the short term would produce a populist | 短期内走向欧洲军队的步骤将产生一个民粹主义者 |
| 1067 | right wing resurgence in Europe and a complete American decoupling. | 右翼在欧洲重现 和彻底的美国脱钩。 |
| 1068 | And so in the short term, | 因此,在短期内, |
| 1069 | the most certain impact is more Ukrainians will die. | 最确定的影响是乌克兰人会死 |
| 1070 | And this is important because this | 这很重要 因为... |
| 1071 | debate does not just take place in this chamber. | 辩论不仅在本会议厅进行。 |
| 1072 | It is not just about policy decisions taken | 不仅仅是政策决定 |
| 1073 | in Brussels or Berlin or Paris. | 在布鲁塞尔或柏林或巴黎。 |
| 1074 | This debate takes place in the bombed out shell of Kupyansk | 这场辩论是在库皮扬斯克被炸出的炮弹中进行的 |
| 1075 | where small groups of Ukrainians are currently fighting street by street, house by house, | 少数乌克兰人正在街巷争吵, |
| 1076 | room by room to clear out Russian occupiers. | 逐个房间清除俄国占领者 |
| 1077 | It is on the long and treacherous supply road | 它在漫长而险恶的补给路上 |
| 1078 | 给Konstantinnovka,其中供应司机的生死差别在于 | |
| 1079 | or not he's spotted by a Russian FPV drone. | 或者他没有被俄罗斯无人机发现 |
| 1080 | This debate takes place in Kiev and Kharkiv | 这场辩论在基辅和哈尔科夫举行。 |
| 1081 | where women, children, pensioners huddle in the cold and dark and air raid shelters for | 妇女、儿童、养恤金领取者在寒冷和黑暗以及空中突袭的避难所中栖身, |
| 1082 | the third winter of this war, where the silence is only broken by the death wine of Russian | 这场战争的第三个冬天 沉默只因俄罗斯的死酒而破灭 |
| 1083 | hypersonic missiles and the cries of the maimed. | 超音速导弹和残废者的呼喊 |
| 1084 | If this is what proposition cares about, vote | 如果这就是提议,投票 |
| 1085 | for us. | 为了我们 |
| 1086 | I think I've already won. | 我想我已经赢了。 |
| 1087 | Now, now, second, let's be charitable to the proposition | 现在,现在,第二,让我们 慈善的建议 |
| 1088 | for a second. | 就一会儿 |
| 1089 | Let us assume that a European army is not merely a pipe dream of Brussels | 让我们假设,欧洲军队不仅仅是布鲁塞尔的烟斗梦 |
| 1090 | think tanks, but that it is actually called into existence and that all else remains equal. | 智囊团,但实际上它被唤作存在,所有其他的都仍然平等. |
| 1091 | First problem, military effectiveness. | 第一个问题,军事效力。 |
| 1092 | Because I just want to note, proposition talks a lot | 因为我只想指出,提议谈了很多 |
| 1093 | about how important of a symbol to Europe this is going to be. | 对于欧洲来说,这个象征有多重要。 |
| 1094 | But what is a European | 但什么是欧洲人 |
| 1095 | army actually meant to do? | 军队真的要这么做吗? |
| 1096 | It is meant to train together, deploy together, and when | 它旨在一起训练,一起部署,以及何时 |
| 1097 | it comes down to it, to fight together. | 一起战斗 |
| 1098 | If it cannot do these things effectively, then | 如果它不能有效地做这些事情,那么 |
| 1099 | it should not exist. | 它不应该存在。 |
| 1100 | And here the biggest problem is that of simply laying down a unified | 这里最大的问题就是 仅仅建立一个统一的 |
| 1101 | deployment policy. | 部署政策。 |
| 1102 | Because let's be real, Europe is a hodgepodge. | 因为让我们做真实的, 欧洲是一个霍奇波奇。 |
| 1103 | Its states have different | 它的状态不同 |
| 1104 | equipment, different terms of service, some professional, some conscript, varying levels | 装备、不同的服役条件、一些专业人员、一些应征士兵、不同级别 |
| 1105 | of national commitment, and wildly different constitutional relationships with its armed | 国家承诺,以及与其武装 |
| 1106 | forces. | 部队。 |
| 1107 | Take Germany. | 带德国去 |
| 1108 | The German Constitutional Court has ruled that the Bundestag, our parliament, | 德国宪法法院裁定 联邦议院 我们的议会 |
| 1109 | must give its consent before any international deployments of German armed forces. | 在德国武装部队的任何国际部署之前,必须征得其同意。 |
| 1110 | Even if | 虽然 |
| 1111 | Europe were to develop a system of reciprocal collective security, the court found that | 欧洲将发展一种互惠的集体安全制度,法院认定, |
| 1112 | any super nationalization of decisions concerning specific deployments would be impermissible | 任何关于具体部署的决定的超级国有化都是不允许的。 |
| 1113 | under Germany's basic law. | 根据德国的基本法。 |
| 1114 | In other words, Germany gets a veto. | 换言之,德国获得否决权。 |
| 1115 | And it would not be alone. | 也不会是孤独的。 |
| 1116 | France would insist on one. | 法国坚持其中一项。 |
| 1117 | Hungary would insist on one. | 匈牙利将坚持一项。 |
| 1118 | Poland, quite understandably, | 波兰,可以理解的是, |
| 1119 | would insist on one. | 会坚持一个。 |
| 1120 | With the lives of thousands of their citizens at stake, it is unthinkable | 数千名公民的生命受到威胁,这是不可思议的 |
| 1121 | that Paris, Berlin, or Warsaw would willingly place their soldiers under a European flag | 巴黎、柏林或华沙 愿意把他们的士兵置于欧洲国旗之下 |
| 1122 | without retaining ultimate control over whether those soldiers are sent to combat. | 而不保留对这些士兵是否被派往战斗的终极控制. |
| 1123 | This is | 这是 |
| 1124 | the crux of the problem. | 问题的关键。 |
| 1125 | Any European army would be commanded permanently under the shadow | 任何欧洲军队都将永远在阴影下指挥 |
| 1126 | of a national veto, a veto that might be exercised because of a different relationship with Russia, | 国家否决权,因为与俄罗斯的关系不同而可能行使的否决权, |
| 1127 | a different appetite for risk, or a different political calculus entirely. | 对风险的胃口不同 或者是完全不同的政治计算 |
| 1128 | Endless squabbling, | 无尽的争吵, |
| 1129 | bitter rancor, and fiction would be all but guaranteed. | 痛苦的愤怒, 和虚构将是所有的保证。 |
| 1130 | What good, I ask, is a European | 我问一个欧洲人有什么好处 |
| 1131 | military if you ultimately cannot use it. | 如果你最终无法使用,请使用军事武器。 |
| 1132 | And this is Hume's proposition at their very | 这是休姆的命题 |
| 1133 | best case, by the way. | 顺便说一句 最好的情况 |
| 1134 | This problem does not arise in the same way under NATO or even under | 在北约或甚至在北约统治下,这个问题不会以同样的方式出现。 |
| 1135 | lesser European security guarantees. | 欧洲安全保证较少。 |
| 1136 | And here I think it's shocking that after three speeches, | 在这里,我觉得令人震惊的是,经过三次演讲后, |
| 1137 | I still have no idea what the steps to get to a European military actually look like. | 我还是不知道 进入欧洲军队的步骤是什么样子的。 |
| 1138 | Because I want to note that even if the US withdraws from NATO, surely European countries | 因为我要指出,即使美国撤出北约, 肯定欧洲国家 |
| 1139 | could just do collective security under the existing NATO framework. | 在北约现有框架下,可以进行集体安全。 |
| 1140 | It is completely | 这是完全的 |
| 1141 | unclear to me, after about 30 minutes of proposition speeches, why it is that we must abandon an | 我不清楚,经过大约30分钟的提议演讲, 为什么我们必须放弃一个 |
| 1142 | existing and tried and tested framework for an untested and likely failing European army, | * 现有的、经过试验和测试的框架,用于一个未经测试和可能失败的欧洲军队, |
| 1143 | right? | 对吧? |
| 1144 | Under these arrangements, and the difference between this and the European army, | 根据这些安排,以及这支军队和欧洲军队之间的区别, |
| 1145 | is that states will still retain the final say over the deployment of their forces. | 国家仍然将保留对其部队部署的最后发言权。 |
| 1146 | Crucially, | 关键是 |
| 1147 | if one country chooses not to participate, as for example Germany did during NATO's intervention | 如果一个国家选择不参加,例如,德国在北约干预期间就是如此。 |
| 1148 | in Libya, others can and do pick up the slack. | 在利比亚,其他人可以而且确实可以松懈。 |
| 1149 | This duplication of national commands is insurance. | 这种重复国家指挥是保险。 |
| 1150 | It allows militaries to be deployed in different coalitions as circumstances require. | 它允许根据情况需要在不同联盟中部署军队。 |
| 1151 | Under a | a 项下 |
| 1152 | European army, this would not happen. | 欧洲军队,这不会发生。 |
| 1153 | A single veto would not merely remove one country from | 单一的否决权并不仅仅使一个国家退出 |
| 1154 | the equation, it would paralyze the entire force. | 等式,它会麻痹整个力量。 |
| 1155 | That is when you are unable to respond quickly | 那时你无法迅速回应 |
| 1156 | enough to further Russian aggression. | 足以加剧俄国的侵略 |
| 1157 | A final point I would like to note before I wrap up, | 在结束发言之前,我想指出的最后一点, |
| 1158 | a final point on the European defence industrial base. | 欧洲国防工业基地的最后一点 |
| 1159 | Because I agree with proposition. | 因为我同意这个提议。 |
| 1160 | Currently | 现 |
| 1161 | Russia is outproducing Europe five to one in terms of artillery shells. | 俄罗斯以5比1的炮弹出产欧洲. |
| 1162 | We need to make good | 我们要好好相处 |
| 1163 | the decades of underinvestment following the Cold War in our defence industrial base. | 冷战后几十年对国防工业基地的投资不足。 |
| 1164 | The problem is | 问题是 |
| 1165 | when you try to standardise a European military, this is when you get to nightmarish amounts of | 当你试图标准化 一个欧洲军队,这是 当你得到夜梦数量 |
| 1166 | complexity. | 复杂。 |
| 1167 | Because currently all European militaries have their own weapon systems, | 因为目前所有欧洲军队都有自己的武器系统 |
| 1168 | their own ammunition chains, their own supply chains. | 他们自己的弹药链,他们自己的供应链。 |
| 1169 | Trying to amalgamate all of these into | 试图把这些合并到 |
| 1170 | one giant military would be a logistical nightmare that would take years to solve. | 一个庞大的军队将是一个后勤噩梦,需要数年才能解决。 |
| 1171 | And even if it is solved, we say that's a bad thing, not a good thing. | 即使解决了,我们说这是坏事,不是好事。 |
| 1172 | Because when you concentrate | 因为当你集中精神 |
| 1173 | production in only a few factories, say Germany starts exclusively producing fighter jets as | 德国只开始生产战斗机, |
| 1174 | opposed to France or the UK, that is when one simple supply chain shortage and only one factory | 反对法国或英国,即一个简单的供应链短缺,只有一个工厂 |
| 1175 | can put the entire line cold. | 可以把整条线冷却。 |
| 1176 | That is when the Russians only have to sabotage one factory as | 这时俄国人只需要破坏一个工厂 |
| 1177 | opposed to five different factories between five different countries that would be producing for | 反对五个不同国家之间制造用于 |
| 1178 | five different national militaries on our side of the house. | 我们家那边有五个不同的国家军队 |
| 1179 | So if this debate is about better being | 所以,如果这场辩论是 关于更好的, |
| 1180 | able to supply Ukraine with the industrial arms necessary to win the war, then I would say we are | 能够向乌克兰提供赢得战争所需的工业武器,然后我要说,我们 |
| 1181 | better as well. | 还好 |
| 1182 | Look, at the end of this debate, I don't ask you to vote for opposition because we | 听着 在辩论结束时 我不要求你投反对票 因为我们 |
| 1183 | believe in European defence. | 相信欧洲的防御 |
| 1184 | I ask you to vote for opposition out of a deep and abiding respect | 我请求你投票反对 出于深深和持久的尊重 |
| 1185 | and love for this continent. | 和爱这个大陆。 |
| 1186 | We have skin in the game. | 游戏里有皮 |
| 1187 | Leo will probably have to serve a year in | 里欧可能得在监狱工作一年 |
| 1188 | the Greek armed forces after he's done with his degree. | 在他完成学位后,希腊武装部队。 |
| 1189 | If the current law that is being debated | 如果正在辩论的现行法律 |
| 1190 | in the German parliament on reintroducing conscription passes, there is a very real | 在德国议会重新颁发征兵证时, |
| 1191 | possibility that I will end up having to serve in uniform as well. | 可能我也会穿制服 |
| 1192 | We tell you that a European army | 我们告诉你一个欧洲军队 |
| 1193 | is simply not the right idea. | 完全不是个好主意。 |
| 1194 | There are existing frameworks that work. | 现有的框架是可行的。 |
| 1195 | They have worked. | 他们成功了。 |
| 1196 | They can | 他们可以 |
| 1197 | work. | 工作时 |
| 1198 | It is our duty to make sure that they continue working. | 我们有责任确保他们继续工作。 |
| 1199 | If you care about the loss | 如果你关心损失 |
| 1200 | of life to civilians in Ukraine, if you care about Europe's defence industrial base, | 如果你关心欧洲的国防工业基础 |
| 1201 | if you care about the effectiveness of European defence, vote opposition. | 如果你关心欧洲防御的有效性, 投票反对。 |
| 1202 | Thank you for your speech. | 谢谢你的演讲 |
| 1203 | Thank you to all of our guest speakers. | 感谢所有客座发言者。 |
| 1204 | Thank you to our members for | 感谢各位成员 |
| 1205 | coming for the debate. | 来参加辩论 |
| 1206 | I remind all of our members to stay seated while the guest speakers and the | 我提醒我们所有成员,请大家不要离席,请各位发言。 |
| 1207 | ministers leave the chamber. | 诸大臣出座. |
| 1208 | Another reminder to vote as you leave. | 又提醒你离开时要投票 |
| 1209 | Thank you for coming. | 谢谢你能来 |
| 1210 | Thank you for coming. Thank you for coming. Thank you for coming. Thank you for coming. | 谢谢你能来 谢谢你能来 谢谢你能来 谢谢你能来 |
该视频共有字幕 1210 条。解锁更多字幕为会员功能，请移动到 价格