7-1 北约如何用无人机和AI准备下一场战争？ | BBC全
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | Hello, welcome to the Global News Podcast from the BBC, I'm Ankur Desai. | 你好 欢迎来到英国广播公司的全球新闻节目 我是安库尔·德赛 |
| 0:03 | On this episode, I'm joined by our diplomatic correspondent, Paul Adams. | 在这个剧集中,我加入了我们的外交记者保罗·亚当斯. |
| 0:08 | Paul, the UK has announced a multi-billion dollar plan that's in order to bring its | 保罗,英国已经宣布了一项 数十亿美元的计划 为了带来它的 |
| 0:13 | armed forces in line with the future of warfare. | 与未来战争相一致的武装部队。 |
| 0:16 | So just tell us first up a little bit more about it. | 所以先说说吧 |
| 0:19 | The way the government frames this is this is in the midst of the largest investment | 政府对此的定位 是在最大的投资之中 |
| 0:24 | in defence spending for decades. | 几十年的国防开支。 |
| 0:27 | The problem is that they are working from a low base. | 问题是,他们的工作基础很低。 |
| 0:32 | The prime minister has said repeatedly that the armed forces have been hollowed out by | 总理屡次表示,武装部队已被击退。 |
| 0:36 | decades of underinvestment and at a time when everyone from the top of the military | 几十年的投资不足, 和在这个时候, 每个人从军事顶端 |
展开字幕全文（150 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Hello, welcome to the Global News Podcast from the BBC, I'm Ankur Desai. | 你好 欢迎来到英国广播公司的全球新闻节目 我是安库尔·德赛 |
| 2 | On this episode, I'm joined by our diplomatic correspondent, Paul Adams. | 在这个剧集中,我加入了我们的外交记者保罗·亚当斯. |
| 3 | Paul, the UK has announced a multi-billion dollar plan that's in order to bring its | 保罗,英国已经宣布了一项 数十亿美元的计划 为了带来它的 |
| 4 | armed forces in line with the future of warfare. | 与未来战争相一致的武装部队。 |
| 5 | So just tell us first up a little bit more about it. | 所以先说说吧 |
| 6 | The way the government frames this is this is in the midst of the largest investment | 政府对此的定位 是在最大的投资之中 |
| 7 | in defence spending for decades. | 几十年的国防开支。 |
| 8 | The problem is that they are working from a low base. | 问题是,他们的工作基础很低。 |
| 9 | The prime minister has said repeatedly that the armed forces have been hollowed out by | 总理屡次表示,武装部队已被击退。 |
| 10 | decades of underinvestment and at a time when everyone from the top of the military | 几十年的投资不足, 和在这个时候, 每个人从军事顶端 |
| 11 | leadership on down is warning that this country is facing very real and growing threats | 国家正面临日益严重的威胁 |
| 12 | that need to be addressed and quickly with this general belief that Europe as a whole | 需要迅速加以解决,因为人们普遍相信整个欧洲 |
| 13 | should be ready possibly to confront Russian forces within the next five years, | 应准备好在未来五年内对抗俄罗斯军队, |
| 14 | which is a fairly terrifying prospect. | 这是一种相当可怕的前景。 |
| 15 | It's interesting you touched upon Russia there, the Ukraine conflict. | 有趣的是你碰到了俄罗斯,乌克兰冲突。 |
| 16 | Let's also add in the Iranian conflict as well. | 我们还要补充一下伊朗的冲突。 |
| 17 | How much of these conflicts been game changers in terms of how they use artificial | 这些冲突中有多少在如何使用人工游戏方面起了改变作用 |
| 18 | intelligence drones? | 情报无人机? |
| 19 | And I guess these plans reflect the lessons that have been learnt through those conflicts | 我想这些计划反映了从这些冲突中吸取的教训 |
| 20 | and what let's say the West needs to do in order to keep up to speed. | 西方需要做什么才能跟上速度 |
| 21 | Yeah, they absolutely do. | 是的,他们绝对这样做。 |
| 22 | And you know, you wouldn't want to be a person drawing up any of these plans because | 你知道,你不会想成为一个人 制定任何这些计划,因为 |
| 23 | frankly, the moment the ink dries on your proposal, you're finding that some some new | 老实说,一旦墨水干涸 你的提议,你发现一些新的 |
| 24 | technological development has has if not rendered your plans redundant, then at least, you | 技术开发已经让你的计划变得多余了 至少你 |
| 25 | know, move things on a bit. | 你知道,移动一些东西。 |
| 26 | And that has been the absolute lesson learned in Ukraine. | 这是在乌克兰吸取的绝对教训。 |
| 27 | Drones have absolutely transformed everything from the smallest, cheapest drones to the | 无人机已经把一切从最小的 最便宜的无人机 转变为 |
| 28 | largest, most sophisticated unmanned platforms, because drones is a is perhaps a slightly | 因为无人驾驶飞机可能只是一点点 |
| 29 | a subset. | a 子集。 |
| 30 | You people talk about uncrewed or unmanned platforms, autonomous platforms, and that | 你们谈论无人驾驶或无人驾驶的平台, 自主平台,以及 |
| 31 | could be a tiny drone or a hundred foot long ship capable of launching missiles and all | 可能是一艘小无人机 或一百英尺长的飞船 能发射导弹 |
| 32 | sorts of things. | 有点事 |
| 33 | So what we're going to see in this new sort of vision of the military, at least what the | 所以,我们将会看到什么 在这个新的 类型的军事愿景,至少 |
| 34 | theory is, that we will have all of the three armed wings of the armed forces integrating | 理论是,我们将拥有武装部队的所有三个武装部门 |
| 35 | this new technology along with AI alongside existing kind of traditional platforms. | 这种新技术与AI 与现有的传统平台。 |
| 36 | So, you know, unmanned vehicles alongside heavy armor, unmanned aircraft flying in conjunction | 所以,你知道,无人驾驶飞行器与重型装甲,无人驾驶飞行器一起飞行 |
| 37 | with jets in the sky and out at sea, the same thing applying. | 飞机在天上,在海上, 同样的东西应用。 |
| 38 | Now, there are a lot of people who are a little skeptical because a lot of this sounds pretty | 现在,有很多人有点怀疑 因为很多这些听起来很漂亮 |
| 39 | futuristic. | 未来境界. |
| 40 | We know from Ukraine that some of this is tried and tested and that's a | 我们从乌克兰知道,其中一些是尝试和测试的,这是 |
| 41 | good place to start. | 好地方开始。 |
| 42 | But I think there are a lot of people who are nervous that perhaps the government is | 但我认为有很多人紧张 也许政府是 |
| 43 | jumping into that particular line of thinking and perhaps sacrificing some more traditional | 跳进这种特殊的想法 并可能牺牲一些更传统的 |
| 44 | concepts in the process. | 概念。 |
| 45 | I mean, clearly, there's going to have to be some kind of hybrid. | 我的意思是,很明显, 一定有某种杂交。 |
| 46 | And you hear that word all the time and the details of that, I think, will take quite | 你总是听到这个词 细节,我想,会相当需要 |
| 47 | a while to emerge. | 一会儿就出来 |
| 48 | If you look beyond the UK then and NATO as a whole, how prepared is it then for this | 如果你超越英国和整个北约, 那么它是如何准备的 |
| 49 | new type of warfare? | 新型战争? |
| 50 | I've seen some army generals saying that Vladimir Putin has looked at the West and | 我见过一些陆军将领说 弗拉基米尔·普京看着西方 |
| 51 | thought, actually, there aren't many deterrents there. | 认为,实际上, 没有太多的威慑。 |
| 52 | So, therefore, he sort of launched this war when he did. | 因此,他发动了这场战争。 |
| 53 | Well, you know, point number one, that didn't go so very well for him because he took a | 嗯,你知道,第一点, 这不太适合他 因为他拿了一个 |
| 54 | look at what he thought was a very weak enemy and turned out to be a far more enterprising | 看着他觉得自己是个很弱的敌人 结果却更有创意 |
| 55 | and resilient than he could possibly have imagined. | 并且比他想象的更坚韧 |
| 56 | The ripple effects of 2022, the full scale invasion, were felt initially, not surprisingly, | 2022年的连锁反应, 全面入侵, 最初感觉到, 不足为奇, |
| 57 | in Eastern Europe, the Baltics, Poland. | 分布于东欧,波罗的海,波兰. |
| 58 | These are countries that have hugely increased their defence spending and they're the ones | 这些国家大大增加了国防开支,它们就是那些 |
| 59 | who have been sounding the alarm bells about Russian intentions most vociferously for some | 他们一直敲响警钟 关于俄罗斯的意图 对于一些人来说最强烈 |
| 60 | years now. | 几年过去了。 |
| 61 | I think part of the problem, the further you get from Eastern Europe, is the more remote, | 我认为问题的一部分,你从东欧得到的越远,就越遥远, |
| 62 | it seems, to the general public. | 似乎,对公众来说。 |
| 63 | You know, defence chiefs here in the UK have been talking about these dangers and illustrating | 在英国的国防长官 一直在谈论这些危险 并展示 |
| 64 | these dangers for some time now, but it still feels, I think, to the general public, a | 这些危险已经存在一段时间了,但我觉得,公众仍然感到, |
| 65 | slightly remote threat. | 有点遥远的威胁。 |
| 66 | You know, the fact that there are Russian vessels out at sea hovering over undersea cables | 你知道,事实上,俄罗斯的船只 出海徘徊在海底电缆上 |
| 67 | or, you know, sabotage operations being mounted by disaffected teenagers sponsored by Russian | 或,你知道,破坏行动 由不满的青少年发起 由俄罗斯赞助 |
| 68 | handlers in various parts of Europe, all of these things feel like irritants, but they | 欧洲各地的操作者, 所有这些东西都觉得 刺激,但他们 |
| 69 | don't feel like a kind of imminent threat. | 感觉不像是迫在眉睫的威胁 |
| 70 | And I think that is part of the problem that the government has, because the one thing that the | 我认为这是政府的问题的一部分 因为只有一件事 |
| 71 | general public is concerned about is the cost of living, welfare and all of these sorts of | 普通大众对生活费用、福利和所有这类费用感到关切。 |
| 72 | things, potholes in the roads. | 路边的坑洞 |
| 73 | You know, Russian threats seem a bit theoretical by comparison. | 相比之下,俄罗斯的威胁似乎有点理论化 |
| 74 | And so the government is juggling these priorities and depending on, you know, what side of the | 因此,政府正在把这些优先事项混为一谈, 取决于,你知道, |
| 75 | fence you're on, not quite finding the right balance. | 找到合适的平衡 |
| 76 | But Europe definitely is rising to the challenge. | 但欧洲无疑正在迎接挑战。 |
| 77 | All the European NATO members are now, in fact, all NATO members have met the 2% of GDP, which | 事实上,所有欧洲北约成员现在都达到了国内生产总值的2%。 |
| 78 | was an earlier NATO target. | 是北约较早的目标 |
| 79 | Some of them are well beyond that. | 其中一些远远超出了这一范围。 |
| 80 | Poland is at 4.3%, Lithuania 4%, the UK currently 2.31%, Germany has just overtaken the UK at | 波兰为4.3%,立陶宛为4%,联合王国目前为2.31%,德国刚刚超越联合王国。 |
| 81 | 2.39%, and then you've got countries like Spain and Portugal lagging some way behind. | 2.39%,然后你得到了像西班牙和葡萄牙这样的国家 在某种程度上落后。 |
| 82 | Of course, Donald Trump wants his... | 当然,唐纳德·特朗普想要他的... |
| 83 | Closer to 5%, right? | 接近5%,对不对? |
| 84 | Indeed. | 没错 |
| 85 | And that's a break. | 且道个歇. |
| 86 | That's three and a half percent on on core defence spending, plus another one and a half | 核心国防开支的百分之三点五 加上另外一个半 |
| 87 | percent on sort of resilience, national infrastructure, the kind of wider security picture. | 在抗御力, 国家基础设施, 那种更广泛的安全图景。 |
| 88 | And the government says that it intends to meet that target and that the latest pledges on | 政府说,它打算达到这个目标 并且最近的承诺 |
| 89 | spending are nudging us in the direction of that. | 花销正使我们向着这个方向走。 |
| 90 | I think the government's critics argue we're not really seeing a timetable for meeting any | 我认为政府的批评者认为 我们真的没有看到一个时间表 |
| 91 | of these ambitious targets. | 这些雄心勃勃的目标。 |
| 92 | The targets are being discussed, but they're not convinced that the government has really | 目标正在讨论之中 但他们不相信政府真的 |
| 93 | got a plan to meet those targets. | 计划要达到目标 |
| 94 | And with Donald Trump insisting on countries to meet that 5% GDP target in terms of spending | 而唐纳德·特朗普则坚持要求各国实现5%的GDP支出目标. |
| 95 | on defence, are you seeing countries are pushing quickly towards that target or are | 你是否看到各国正迅速向这个目标推进? |
| 96 | NATO countries still feeling as though they will do it at their own pace? | 北约国家仍然觉得它们会以自己的速度这样做吗? |
| 97 | They're not going to be put under pressure by the US? | 他们不会受到美国的压力? |
| 98 | Yeah, I mean, there are some countries like Spain who are actively resisting American | 是啊,我的意思是,有一些国家 像西班牙 积极抵制美国人 |
| 99 | pressure in all sorts of ways. | 各种压力 |
| 100 | I think most people would say Donald Trump has in a way done the Europeans a favour by | 我认为大多数人会说唐纳德·特朗普 用某种方式帮了欧洲人 |
| 101 | being pretty brutal about this and by basically telling the Europeans, look, you've been | 你对这件事很残忍 基本上告诉了欧洲人 |
| 102 | freeloading on American goodwill since the end of the Second World War, the time has | 自第二次世界大战结束以来 美国的善意,时间已经到了 |
| 103 | come for you to look after security in your continent. | 来照顾你们大陆的安全 |
| 104 | That is now an entirely accepted mantra across Europe. | 现在,这是整个欧洲完全接受的口号。 |
| 105 | We are hearing European leaders talking about essentially becoming the main drivers of | 我们正听到欧洲领导人谈论 基本上成为主要驱动者 |
| 106 | NATO, the main funders of NATO, the main organisers of NATO, thinking possibly of a | 北约,北约的主要资助者, 北约的主要组织者, 可能考虑 |
| 107 | time when maybe the United States decides NATO is not really its business anymore and it's | 也许美国决定北约 不再是它的事了 |
| 108 | more interested in the Pacific arena. | 更感兴趣的太平洋舞台。 |
| 109 | So there's a very real sense across Europe that the countries of Europe, the EU and | 因此,欧洲各国、欧盟各国以及欧洲各国都有一种非常真实的感觉。 |
| 110 | Britain and others need to be taking more responsibility for their own security. | 英国和其他国家需要对自己的安全承担更多的责任。 |
| 111 | And I mean, that is an important part of Donald Trump's legacy. | 我的意思是,这是唐纳德·特朗普遗产的重要组成部分。 |
| 112 | Of course, he's not going to be here in a couple of years time and who knows, the war | 当然,他不会在这里 在几年的时间 谁知道,战争 |
| 113 | in Ukraine may eventually fizzle out and this notion of a kind of rapacious, dangerous | 在乌克兰 最终可能会崩溃 和这个概念 一种贪婪,危险 |
| 114 | Russia could start to fade. | 俄罗斯可能开始消亡。 |
| 115 | Right now, we're living through the period where there's sort of maximum perceived danger. | 现在,我们生活在一个极端危险时期。 |
| 116 | Who knows what the world would look like in five years time? | 谁知道五年后世界会是什么样子? |
| 117 | Yeah, as you alluded to that point about that Russian threat in five years time, could | 是的,正如你提到的那样, 俄罗斯威胁在五年后, |
| 118 | this also be NATO preparing for a possible war in the future and just having deterrence | 北约也为将来可能发生的战争做准备 并且有威慑力 |
| 119 | in place? | 就位了吗? |
| 120 | We saw recently reports come out of North Korea that they are arming themselves with | 我们最近看到北韩的消息说 他们正在武装自己 |
| 121 | nuclear technology. | 核技术。 |
| 122 | People always worry about threats from further afield because there are opportunities because | 人们总是担心 从更远的地方的威胁 因为有机会,因为 |
| 123 | of the sophisticated nature of technology moving so quickly that there could be threats | 技术的复杂性质 如此迅速的移动 以至于可能存在威胁 |
| 124 | from so far away to countries on the other side of the world. | 从遥远到世界另一边的国家。 |
| 125 | So is this a sign of preparation rather than prediction of some sort of a conflict? | 因此,这是准备的迹象,而不是对某种冲突的预测? |
| 126 | Yeah, I mean, I think it is definitely it's about deterrence. | 是啊,我的意思是,我觉得这绝对是 关于威慑。 |
| 127 | Yes, you're right. | 没错 |
| 128 | I mean, North Korea, I think, has ballistic missiles capable of hitting the American | 我的意思是,朝鲜,我想,有弹道导弹 可以击中美国 |
| 129 | mainland. | 大陆网. |
| 130 | Question marks about its ability to stick nuclear weapons on top of these. | 问题标志着它有能力在核武器上加固核武器。 |
| 131 | But, you know, we don't talk a great deal about North Korea at the moment, but it's | 但是,你知道,我们不谈很多 关于朝鲜目前,但这是 |
| 132 | certainly a continuing threat. | 当然是一种持续的威胁。 |
| 133 | We saw moments during the Iran war where its ability to launch ballistic missiles much | 在伊朗战争中,我们看到了伊朗发射弹道导弹的能力 |
| 134 | further than people had thought possible. | 比人们想象的还可能 |
| 135 | So that there was a realisation there that that was a danger. | 因此,人们意识到这是一个危险。 |
| 136 | But all the focus really is on Russia and on Vladimir Putin and on the kind of the | 但所有的重点都在于俄罗斯 弗拉基米尔·普京 以及那种 |
| 137 | rhetoric surrounding the war in Ukraine and the sense that if you look around Europe and | 围绕乌克兰战争的言论,以及如果你环顾欧洲和 |
| 138 | you kind of start to tally up these various hybrid dangers, exploding parcels in a DHL | 你开始计算这些混合危险, 在DHL爆炸包裹 |
| 139 | warehouse, you know, which could have blown up on on an aircraft, Russian warships | 仓库,你知道,它可能 炸毁在飞机上,俄罗斯军舰 |
| 140 | hovering over and inspecting vital undersea cables and so forth. | 盘旋和检查重要的海底电缆等等。 |
| 141 | These are the kind of dangers that people are identifying. | 这些是人们发现的危险。 |
| 142 | I don't think outside of Poland and the Baltics, you have a lot of governments thinking | 我想除了波兰和波罗的海之外 你有很多政府都在想 |
| 143 | oh my God, Russia is about to invade on the ground. | 哦,我的上帝,俄罗斯即将入侵地面。 |
| 144 | But we need to be in a position to deter that and any other of the more kind of hybrid | 但我们需要有能力阻止它和任何其他更杂交的 |
| 145 | threats that Russia is demonstrating on an almost daily basis. | 俄罗斯几乎每天都在表现出这种威胁。 |
| 146 | Paul Adams there, our diplomatic correspondent. | 我们的外交记者保罗·亚当斯 |
| 147 | If you'd like more content from the Global News podcast, do remember to click on the | 如果您想要全球新闻播客提供更多内容 请记住点击 |
| 148 | link below. | 链接如下。 |
| 149 | Thank you ever so much for your company and we'll see you on the next | 非常感谢你的陪伴,下次见 |
| 150 | episode. | 剧集。 |
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