【牛津辩论】印度 vs 巴基斯坦

发布于 2026-03-31 · 时长 1:34:05

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:08	Ladies and gentlemen, we meet today not in the quiet comfort of abstract theory.	女士们,先生们,我们今天相遇不是在抽象理论的平静舒适中。
0:15	We meet while the smoke still curls from the craters in Kashmir, and while the echoes of	我们相遇的时候克什米尔的陨石坑的烟雾仍然卷曲着我们相遇时
0:21	the sirens from this past May still ring in the A's of South Asia.	去年五月的警报声仍然在南亚的A区响起
0:26	The opposition will tell you that New Delhi is a rational actor in a dangerous neighborhood.	反对派会告诉你新德里是一个危险的街区里一个理性的演员
0:33	I'll tell you that is a lie.	我告诉你,那是谎言。
0:35	The opposition will try to sell you a story of security dilemmas and deterrence.	反对派会试图告诉你一个安全困境和威慑的故事。
0:41	Do not buy it.	不要买它。
0:43	India's policy towards Pakistan is no longer about the line of control.	印度对巴基斯坦的政策不再涉及控制线.
0:48	It is about the line of credit.	这是关于信用额度。
0:50	The political credit that Narendra Modi needs to withdraw from the bank of public fear every	Narendra Modi需要从公众恐惧银行撤出的政治功劳

展开字幕全文（1902 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Ladies and gentlemen, we meet today not in the quiet comfort of abstract theory.	女士们,先生们,我们今天相遇不是在抽象理论的平静舒适中。
2	We meet while the smoke still curls from the craters in Kashmir, and while the echoes of	我们相遇的时候克什米尔的陨石坑的烟雾仍然卷曲着我们相遇时
3	the sirens from this past May still ring in the A's of South Asia.	去年五月的警报声仍然在南亚的A区响起
4	The opposition will tell you that New Delhi is a rational actor in a dangerous neighborhood.	反对派会告诉你新德里是一个危险的街区里一个理性的演员
5	I'll tell you that is a lie.	我告诉你,那是谎言。
6	The opposition will try to sell you a story of security dilemmas and deterrence.	反对派会试图告诉你一个安全困境和威慑的故事。
7	Do not buy it.	不要买它。
8	India's policy towards Pakistan is no longer about the line of control.	印度对巴基斯坦的政策不再涉及控制线.
9	It is about the line of credit.	这是关于信用额度。
10	The political credit that Narendra Modi needs to withdraw from the bank of public fear every	Narendra Modi需要从公众恐惧银行撤出的政治功劳
11	single time his domestic popularity crashes.	一次他的国内流行崩溃。
12	Now, before I dismantle the machinery behind their lies, it is my great pleasure to introduce	在我拆除他们谎言背后的机器之前我非常高兴地介绍
13	my great friends inside opposition.	我反对的伟大朋友
14	首先,我和我的参谋长Viranj Pandushali是好朋友。
15	Viranj is also an Indian.	维兰日也是印度人.
16	My first chief of staff was also an Indian, but my first chief of staff lasted only a	我的第一个幕僚长也是印度人但我的第一个幕僚长只持续了
17	little bit longer than the Rafale jets in an airspace.	比空域的拉法勒喷气机长一点
18	You would have thought that I learned my lesson from that, but no, I picked my second chief	你会认为我从中吸取了教训但是,不,我选了我的第二任酋长
19	of staff to be an Indian as well.	工作人员也是印第安人。
20	But after working with both of them, I can personally say I have lived through India's	但和他们一起工作之后我个人可以说我经历了印度
21	entire Pakistan policy.	整个巴基斯坦政策
22	Because Viranj is exactly like that, loud, high on emotion, and when everything goes	因为Viranj就是那样的, 大声,高调的情感, 当一切都去
23	wrong, instead of introspecting and reflecting that he liked the Indians, resorts to only	错误,而不是回顾和反映他喜欢印第安人,只诉诸于
24	Blame the Pakistani president.	怪巴基斯坦总统
25	His girlfriend breaks up with him.	他的女朋友和他分手了他的女朋友和他分手了
26	What does Viranj do?	维兰杰做什么的?
27	Blame the Pakistani president.	怪巴基斯坦总统
28	He gets punched in the face by a mobster.	他的脸被暴徒打了一拳
29	What does Viranj do?	维兰杰做什么的?
30	Blame the Pakistani president.	怪巴基斯坦总统
31	And if he loses his election tomorrow, I'm telling you, I trust me, he will blame the	如果他明天失去选举,我告诉你, 相信我,他会责怪
32	Pakistani president.	巴基斯坦总统.
33	Speaking next is Devachan Banerjee, a defil in the business school and another very good	接下来是Devachan Banerjee, 在商学院的一个堕落,另一个非常好
34	friend of mine.	我的一个朋友。
35	Now, Devachan has run in two Oxfordian elections in the past, and sadly, he lost both of them.	现在,Devachan在过去的两次牛津选举中竞选,可悲的是,他失去了两人。
36	Now, after those stinging defeats, he has decided to take a page out of the BJP's election	现在,在那些刺痛的失败之后,他决定从BJP的选举中取出一页
37	playbook.	游戏本。
38	Which is what?	这是什么?
39	Stand in a chamber, blame the Pakistanis for everything, and you too can win an election	站在一个会议厅里,把一切归咎于巴基斯坦人, 你也可以赢得选举。
40	you otherwise would have lost, Devachan.	否则你会输的,德瓦昌
41	Speaking third is Sid Nagrath.	第三位是席德·纳格拉斯
42	Now Sid too, an Indian serving as chief of staff to a previous ex-Pakistani president.	一名印度人担任前任巴基斯坦总统的参谋长。
43	Now if Pakistan really represents such a security challenge, then after so many Pakistani presidents	如果巴基斯坦真的代表了这种安全挑战那么在这么多巴基斯坦总统之后
44	working so well with the Indian chief of staff, they would have heard some reports of some	他们和印度参谋长合作得很好他们本会听到一些关于
45	terrorism happening.	恐怖主义正在发生。
46	But let me be clear in my speech, my target is not the Indian citizens, who themselves	但我要说清楚,我的目标不是印度公民,他们自己
47	are a great victim to this lie, but my target is the architect of this lie.	但我的目标是这个谎言的策划者
48	I stand here to expose the regime of Narendra Modi, a government that has turned the world's	我站在这里是为了揭露纳伦德拉·莫迪的政权,这个政府改变了世界
49	largest democracy into the world's largest state for hate.	最大的民主国家成为世界上最大的仇恨国家。
50	How one man's reckless electoral pandering is endangering the lives and the hopes of	一个人的鲁莽选举拉皮条正在危及生命和希望
51	billions of people.	亿万众生.
52	This is not a security policy, it is a populist strategy, written in saffron ink, and sealed	这不是安全政策,而是民粹主义的策略,用红花墨水书写,封存
53	with the blood of soldiers, designed for one purpose and one purpose only, to keep a regime	与士兵的鲜血,专为维持政权而设计
54	in power by manufacturing a permanent enemy.	通过制造永久敌人来掌权
55	Let us look at the facts, not the propaganda, but the bloodstained facts.	让我们看看事实,不是宣传,而是血染的事实。
56	On the 7th of May, 2025, the Indian Air Force launched operations in Door, they called it	2025年5月7日,印度空军在Door展开行动,他们称之为
57	a surgical strike.	外科手术
58	The Indian media cheered, they showed you graphics of fighter jets destroying terror	印度媒体欢呼,他们给你们看了战斗机摧毁恐怖的画面
59	camps, but let me tell you what they did not show you.	营地,但让我告诉你他们没有告诉你什么。
60	Let me take you to the city of Bahavakur, let me tell you about the mosque that was	让我带你去巴哈瓦库尔市让我告诉你当时的清真寺
61	not a training camp, but a place of worship, whose domes were shattered by Indian missiles,	不是训练营而是礼拜场所圆顶被印度导弹击碎
62	while people knelt in prayer.	人们在礼拜时叩头。
63	Pakistani authorities reported that 31 innocent civilians were killed, 15 of them were children,	巴基斯坦当局报告说,有31名无辜平民被杀,其中15人是儿童。
64	15 children torn from their mothers, not by accident, but by a calculated act of aggression.	15个孩子被母亲撕裂,不是偶然的,而是蓄意的侵略行为。
65	While Mr Modi's news anchors were celebrating precision, Pakistani fathers were digging	当Modi先生的新闻主播庆祝精确度时巴基斯坦父亲正在挖掘
66	through concrete.	通过混凝土。
67	That is the cost of security policy.	这是安全政策的费用。
68	And for what?	为了什么?
69	When the tragedy, and it is a severe tragedy what happened at Balagam.	当悲剧发生时,在巴拉加姆发生的是严重的悲剧。
70	On the 23rd of April after that tragedy, our Prime Minister Shabash Sharif stood before	4月23日,在那次悲剧之后,我国总理沙巴什·谢里夫站在我们面前。
71	the world and condemned what happened in Balagam.	谴责在巴拉加姆发生的一切
72	He did not ask for war, he asked for truth.	他没有要求战争,他要求真理。
73	He offered a joint independent international inquiry.	他提出进行联合独立国际调查。
74	He opened the door to investigators.	他向调查人员敞开了大门。
75	And what did Mr Modi do?	莫迪先生做了什麽?
76	Did he pick up the phone?	他接电话了吗?
77	Did he send a diplomat?	他派了外交官吗?
78	Did he provide a single shred of credible evidence to the United Nations?	他是否向联合国提供了一丝可靠证据?
79	No, he sent the Air Force.	不,他派了空军
80	Independent observers and the multiple media sources reported that India struck before	独立观察员和多家媒体消息来源报告说,印度以前曾遭受袭击。
81	any evidence was verified.	任何证据均已核实。
82	And why is that the case?	为什么?
83	Well, because the joint inquiry takes time.	因为联合调查需要时间
84	And Mr Modi did not have time.	莫迪先生没有时间
85	He had an election to win.	他有个选举要赢
86	Mr Speaker, I will set out the anatomy of their spectacle.	议长先生,我介绍一下他们的外表
87	Watch the choreography.	观心修行.
88	What is the step one?	步骤一是什么?
89	A tragedy happens.	发生了悲剧。
90	Step two, before the bodies even get cold, the media frenzy begins.	第二步,在尸体冷却之前,媒体狂热开始.
91	Not asking who did this, but screaming revenge.	不是问是谁干的,而是尖叫报复
92	And step three, the missiles fly.	第三步,导弹飞了
93	They call this security, but let's just call it for what it is.	他们称这个保安,但让我们把它叫做它是什么。
94	It is populism in uniform.	这是民粹主义的制服。
95	And it's worked, didn't it?	它的工作,不是吗?
96	Look at the headlines from this week.	看这周的头条新闻
97	In November 2025, the BJP swept the elections in Bihar.	2025年11月,BJP扫荡了比哈尔的选举.
98	The same commentators who said Modi was finished are now calling him the protector.	说莫迪完事的同一位评论家现在称他为保护者.
99	He sold them fair and that bought him a landslide.	他卖掉他们公平买下滑坡
100	That is the policy of transaction.	这就是交易政策。
101	It is not a policy of defense.	这不是防卫政策。
102	It is not a policy of distraction.	这不是分散注意力的政策。
103	But Mr Speaker, to call this mere electioneering is to be dangerously naive.	但是,议长先生,称这仅仅是选举是危险的天真。
104	This is not just about one election.	这不仅仅是一场选举。
105	It is about a soul.	这是关于一个灵魂。
106	The soul of the current Indian regime is fascist.	现印度政权的灵魂是法西斯主义.
107	We must speak the truth that polite diplomacy tries to hide.	我们必须说出礼貌外交试图掩盖的真相。
108	Prime Minister Modi is not a lone actor.	莫迪总理不是一个孤独的演员。
109	He's the obedient soldier of RSS.	他是RSS的服从士兵.
110	You cannot understand Modi without understanding the RSS.	你无法理解莫迪不理解RSS。
111	And you cannot understand the RSS without understanding the sentence that their ideologue,	你无法理解RSS 如果不理解他们的理论家
112	Golwarka),写纳粹德国.
113	He called Nazi Germany a good lesson for us in Hindustan to learn and profit by.	他称纳粹德国为我们印度斯坦学习和获利的好教训.
114	That is the ideology that sits in the Prime Minister's office today.	这就是今天总理办公室的意识形态。
115	That is the legacy his leadership lies on.	这是他领导才能的遗产。
116	From the ashes of the Gujarat riots in 2002, where Mr Modi presided over the slaughter	从2002年古吉拉特暴动的灰烬中,莫迪先生主持了屠杀
117	of a thousand Muslims to the destruction of the Babri Masjid, their playbook has remained consistent.	一千名穆斯林被巴布里·马斯吉德摧毁他们的剧本始终如一
118	Power is consolidated by manufacturing a permanent enemy.	通过制造永久敌人来巩固电力。
119	Their version of a Hindu Rashtra, a pure ethno-religious state, cannot exist without an other.	他们对印度拉什特拉邦的版本是一个纯粹的民族宗教国家,没有另一个国家是不可能存在的。
120	They need Pakistan.	他们需要巴基斯坦。
121	You have to stand up if you want to point permission.	你要是想指手划脚,就得站起来
122	Deny it, so sit down.	拒绝,所以坐下。
123	They need Pakistan.	他们需要巴基斯坦。
124	If Pakistan disappeared tomorrow, the BJP would have to invent us.	如果巴基斯坦明天消失英国人民党必须发明我们
125	Because without the monster next door, they would have to answer to their own people for	因为没有隔壁的怪物, 他们不得不向自己的人民负责
126	the hunger, the poverty and the economic turbulence.	饥饿、贫困和经济动荡。
127	So let me tell you again.	我再说一遍
128	They do not fight because we are a threat to their borders.	他们不打仗,因为我们是对其边界的威胁。
129	They fight us because we are necessary for their ballots.	他们和我们斗,因为我们是他们的选票所必需的。
130	Mr Speaker, the opposition will tell you that these military actions are driven by intelligence.	议长先生,反对派会告诉你这些军事行动是由情报驱动的
131	I tell you they are driven by the Election Commission of India's calendar.	我告诉你,他们是由印度的选举委员会来推动的。
132	Let's look at the timeline.	让我们看看时间表。
133	It's not a conspiracy.	这不是阴谋
134	It's a clockwork pattern that insults the intelligence of this House.	钟表图案侮辱了本院的智慧.
135	Picture the scene in late 2016.	2016年末拍摄场景.
136	The BJP is fighting a losing battle for the heart of Uttar Pradesh.	BJP在为北方邦的心脏而战
137	The polls were clear.	民意调查很清楚。
138	The outcome looked grim.	结果看起来很惨淡。
139	So what did Modi do?	那莫迪怎么办?
140	He turned a terrorist attack, a tragedy in Uri, into a political spectacle.	他把恐怖袭击,乌里悲剧变成了政治场景.
141	And just like that, a looming fight, a looming defeat was transformed into a political land	就这样,一场即将来临的战斗,一场即将来临的战败,变成了政治之地
142	strike victory.	罢工胜利。
143	Fast forward to 2019.	快速前进至2019.
144	The general election is looming and the government's economic report card is weak.	大选即将举行,政府的经济成绩单也微弱.
145	But just like before, the narrative flips.	但是,就像以前, 叙事翻转。
146	Suddenly, we have Pulwama.	突然间,我们得到了普尔瓦玛。
147	We have Balakot.	我们有巴拉科特。
148	The Prime Minister's platform pivots instantly from creating jobs to teaching Pakistan a	从创造就业到教巴基斯坦
149	lesson and defending India.	教训和捍卫印度。
150	And what's the result?	结果如何?
151	History repeats itself.	历史重演.
152	Another landslide victory.	又一场山崩胜利.
153	And now, in 2015, in 2025 April, the BJP was staring at a loss in the Bihar elections.	而现在,在2015年,在4月2025年,BJP正盯着比哈尔选举的损失.
154	They already suffered below-expectation results in the 2024 Lok Sabha elections.	他们已经在2024年的Lok Sabha选举中遭受了低于预期的结果。
155	And the people were asking questions that the government could not answer.	人民正在问政府不能回答的问题。
156	So what happened?	发生什么事了?
157	Like a magician pulling a rabbit from a hat, we got operations in Door in May.	就像一个魔术师从帽子里拉兔子我们5月在Door做了手术
158	Mr Modi lies to his people.	莫迪先生对他的人撒谎
159	He mocks their intelligence.	他嘲笑他们的智力
160	An innocent Pakistani lies pay the price.	一个无辜的巴基斯坦谎言要付出代价。
161	Mr Modi does not address domestic unemployment.	Modi先生不处理国内失业问题。
162	He does not address domestic inequality.	他没有处理国内不平等问题。
163	He does not address the economic slowdown.	他没有谈到经济放缓。
164	And why?	为什么?
165	Because he's incapable of doing so.	因为他不能这么做
166	He lies to the Indian people that Pakistan is a threat.	他向印度人民谎称巴基斯坦是一个威胁。
167	He lies to them that Pakistan is the obstacle to their progress.	他告诉他们,巴基斯坦是他们进步的障碍。
168	He lies to them that Pakistan is a danger waiting across the border.	他对他们撒谎说,巴基斯坦是一个危险,在边境上等待。
169	Denied.	否认。
170	Sit down.	请坐
171	But members, these are not security assessments.	但各位成员,这些不是安全评估。
172	They're political calculations.	它们是政治计算.
173	Every time an election nears, the drums of war grow louder.	每当选举临近,战争的鼓声就越来越大。
174	Every time his approval dips, his rhetoric of fear rises.	每当他的认可下降, 他的恐惧的言辞上升。
175	Every time accountability approaches, the cross-border strikes mysteriously reappear.	每当问责制接近时,跨界袭击神秘地重新出现。
176	And what's the greatest tragedy of it all?	最大的悲剧是什么?
177	Is that his strategy undermines the very security that he claims to protect.	那是他的策略破坏了他声称要保护的安全。
178	Innocent civilians die so his premiership can live another day.	无辜的平民死了,所以他的首选可以活一天。
179	And if that were not enough, they have now crossed a line	如果还不够的话,他们已经超越了界限
180	that civilization itself hold hell-sacred.	文明本身却被诅咒
181	Mr Speaker, I'm talking about the Indus Waters Treaty.	议长先生我说的是印度河水条约
182	On April the 23rd, 2025, India announced the suspension of this treaty.	2025年4月23日,印度宣布中止这项条约.
183	A pact that had survived three wars.	一个在三场战争中幸存下来的契约
184	But they did not stop at announcements.	但他们并没有停止公告。
185	Using water as the basic human right as a weapon of war is not just despicable.	将水作为基本人权作为战争武器不仅仅是可鄙的。
186	It's an act of hydroterrorism.	这是水上恐怖主义
187	They are threatening to parse the throats of our children.	他们威胁要剖开我们孩子的喉咙。
188	They are threatening to turn the breadbasket of Punjab into a dust bowl.	他们威胁要把旁遮普邦的面包盆变成灰碗。
189	Since when?	什么时候开始的?
190	Since when did a security policy involve starving a neighbor?	从什么时候起安全政策就让邻居挨饿了?
191	Since when did the right to thirst become a tool of diplomatic leverage?	口渴的权利何时成为外交手段?
192	By holding a vital resource, a vital shared resource hostage,	通过掌握重要资源,重要共享资源,
193	Delhi has signaled to the world that it is willing to weaponize nature itself.	德里向世界表明,它愿意将自然本身武器化。
194	This is not the behavior of a regional superpower.	这不是一个区域超级大国的行为。
195	It is the behavior of a neighborhood bully	这是邻里欺负人的行为
196	who thinks respect can be demanded at the top of a dam.	他们认为在水坝顶部可以要求尊重。
197	Mr Speaker, members of the House,	议长先生,议员们,
198	when water becomes a bargaining chip and not a human right,	当水成为谈判筹码而不是人权时,
199	you know this is not about security.	你知道这和保安无关
200	It is about cruelty.	这是关于残酷。
201	And cruelty is the last refuge of a populist tyrant.	而残酷是民粹主义暴君的最后避难所.
202	Mr Speaker, we must lift our eyes from the border to the horizon.	议长先生,我们必须把眼睛从边界抬到地平线上。
203	If you truly want to understand the architecture of Mr Modi's India,	如果你真的想了解莫迪先生的印度建筑
204	do not look to Gandhi's spinning wheel,	不要指望甘地的旋转轮,
205	but look to Benjamin Netanyahu's war cabinet.	但看看本雅明·内塔尼亚胡的战争内阁
206	What we are witnessing is the Israelization of Indian statecraft.	我们看到的是印度的国术被以色列化。
207	Mr Modi and Mr Netanyahu are ideological twins.	莫迪先生和内塔尼亚胡先生是思想双胞胎。
208	They are brothers in hate.	他们是仇恨的兄弟。
209	Netanyahu survives by invoking the eternal threat of the Arabs	内塔尼亚胡通过援引阿拉伯人的永恒威胁而生存
210	and Modi is surviving by invoking the eternal threat of the Muslims.	而莫迪通过援引穆斯林的永恒威胁而生存.
211	Both represent a dangerous shift from civic nationalism to ethno-religious nationalism.	两者都代表着从公民民族主义向族裔宗教民族主义的危险转变。
212	Zionism claims that the land is for the Jews alone.	锡安主义声称土地只供犹太人使用.
213	Hindutva claims that the land is for the Hindus alone.	兴都特瓦宣称土地仅供印度教徒使用.
214	Both leaders use this permanent politics of siege to dismantle their own judiciaries,	两位领导人都利用这种永久的围攻政治来瓦解自己的司法机构,
215	control their own press and escape their own corruption scandals.	控制自己的新闻逃避自己的腐败丑闻
216	And where do we see the darkest laboratory for this?	我们在哪里看到最黑暗的实验室?
217	It's in Kashmir.	位于克什米尔.
218	The opposition will call Kashmir an internal matter for the Indians.	反对派将称克什米尔为印第安人的内部事务.
219	I call it a settler colonial project.	我称之为定居者殖民计划。
220	Today Kashmir is the most militarized zone in the world.	今天,克什米尔是世界上最军事化的地区。
221	There is one soldier for every 10 Kashmiris.	每10名克什米尔人有一名士兵。
222	Think about that ratio.	想想这个比例
223	That is not about protection.	这与保护无关。
224	That is not about security.	这与安全无关。
225	That is a prison.	那是监狱
226	Mr Modi abrogated Article 370 not to integrate the region,	Modi先生废除了第370条,不使该地区一体化,
227	but to conquer it.	但是为了征服它
228	They are importing settlers from the mainland to change the demographics,	他们从大陆进口定居者来改变人口结构,
229	to turn a Muslim majority into a Muslim minority	将穆斯林多数变成穆斯林少数;
230	in their own ancestral home.	在他们自己的祖先家中。
231	This is not security policy.	这不是安全政策。
232	It is demographic engineering sold as integration.	它是作为一体化出售的人口工程。
233	Members of the House, Mr Speaker, I conclude with this.	众议院议员,议长先生,我结束发言。
234	The opposition might ask,	反对者可能会问,
235	does India not have legitimate security concerns?	印度是否有正当的安全关切?
236	Of course they do.	当然
237	So does Pakistan.	巴基斯坦也是如此。
238	So does every nation in this fractured world.	在这个分裂的世界中,每一个国家都是这样。
239	But there's a difference.	但有分别.
240	There's a difference between a surgeon who cuts to heal	有区别的外科医生谁切疗
241	and a butcher who cuts to sell his meat.	和屠夫谁切出售他的肉。
242	And Mr Modi has never lifted a scalpel for his country's security,	莫迪先生从未为了国家的安全提过一把手术刀
243	only a butcher's knife to secure his own elections.	只有屠夫的刀才能确保自己的选举
244	This policy, this cycle of strikes, suspension of treaties,	这一政策、罢工的循环、条约的中止、
245	manufactured hysteria is not a cure.	制造出来的歇斯底里不是治疗方法
246	It is a poison.	这是一个毒药。
247	And here is the tragedy.	这就是悲剧
248	Here is the real tragedy of all of this.	这是这一切的真正悲剧。
249	The ultimate victim of this poison is not Pakistan.	这种毒药的最终受害者不是巴基斯坦。
250	We are resilient.	我们有弹性。
251	We have survived wars.	我们在战争中幸存下来。
252	We have survived floods.	我们在洪水中幸存下来。
253	We have survived the loss of our children.	我们从失去儿童中幸存下来。
254	We have survived Mr Modi's ego.	我们幸免于莫迪先生的自负
255	To the Indian students in the chamber,	敬室里的印度学生
256	my friends, we are your partners in the future	朋友们,我们是你的伙伴
257	that we will inherit together.	我们一起继承
258	One of the biggest victims of terrorism is Pakistan itself.	恐怖主义的最大受害者之一是巴基斯坦本身。
259	We have lost over 80,000 of our own men, women and children,	我们失去了8万多男女老少
260	$150 billion of economic damage done to the country.	国家遭受经济损失1500亿元.
261	Why would anyone burn their own house down	为什么要烧自己的房子?
262	to attack their neighbor?	攻击他们的邻居?
263	Why would we do this?	我们为什么要这么做?
264	We speak the same language.	我们说同样的语言。
265	We share the same cinema and the same music.	我们分享同样的电影和音乐。
266	My argument today is against those who are hijacking	我今天的争论是反对那些劫持者
267	the soul of your country to build their power on fear.	你的国家的灵魂建立他们的力量在恐惧。
268	Being sold a lie, you'll be told that your safety	被卖的谎言,你会被告知你的安全
269	requires the hunger of your neighbor.	需要你邻居的饥饿。
270	You're being told that to be a patriot,	你被告知要爱国
271	you must hate those with the same language,	你一定恨那些语言相同的人,
272	same culture and same customs.	同样的文化和习俗。
273	But let me remind you,	让我提醒你
274	the fire that your government is lighting	你的政府正在点燃的火
275	on the border will not just stay on the border.	在边境上不会只是停留在边境上。
276	It will come home.	它会回来的
277	And that fire will burn your press freedom,	火会烧掉你的新闻自由
278	it will burn your independent courts	它会烧掉你们独立的法庭
279	and it will burn the secular soul	它会烧死世俗的灵魂
280	that once made India a light in the world.	这曾经使印度成为世界的灯光。
281	This security policy is a fraud.	这种安全政策是一种欺诈。
282	It is a populism.	这是一个民粹主义。
283	It is populism that risks nuclear winter	是民粹主义威胁着核冬天
284	just to secure a political summer.	只是为了保证一个政治夏天。
285	I ask this house.	我问这房子。
286	I ask this house, do not applaud the arsonist	我问这房子,别为纵火犯鼓掌
287	just because he wears a uniform.	只是因为他穿制服。
288	Do not validate a strategy that trades the blood of soldiers	千万不要用兵士的血来交换
289	for the ballot of politicians.	政治人物的选票
290	Vote for the proposition.	投票支持这个提议。
291	Vote to tell the truth that the politics of fear	投票告诉真相恐惧的政治
292	is a game we are no longer willing to play.	我们不再愿意玩游戏了
293	Vote that yes, India's policy to Pakistan	投票同意,印度对巴基斯坦的政策
294	is a populist strategy sold in a lie	是一个民粹主义的策略卖在谎言中
295	as a security policy.	作为一项安全政策。
296	Thank you very much, everyone.	非常感谢各位
297	Thank you.	谢谢
298	Thank you for that speech.	谢谢你的演讲
299	I thank you for the personal speech.	我感谢你的私人演讲。
300	I yield the chair back to the president.	我把椅子交给总统
301	I thank myself for my speech.	感谢本人的演讲.
302	I now look to my great chief of staff,	我现在期待我的伟大幕僚长
303	由Viranj Bandushali领导此案
304	for side opposition.	对方反对。
305	Mr. President, honorable members of the union,	总统先生,尊敬的工会成员,
306	our distinguished guests on the proposition bench,	我们的贵宾们,
307	thank you for the flow.	谢谢你的帮助
308	I rise today, the day after the solemn	今天我站起来,在庄严的第二天
309	anniversary that haunts every Mumbaika.	每一个孟买卡人都会被困住
310	To oppose the motion that India's policy	反对印度政策的动议
311	towards Pakistan is populism disguised	对巴基斯坦的民粹主义
312	as security policy.	作为安全政策。
313	Apologies for the mic.	对不起,麦克风。
314	In plain terms, I stand here to tell you	简单地说,我站在这里告诉你
315	that not only is this claim false,	不仅这个说法是错误的,
316	but it is a fundamental misreading	但这是根本的错误
317	of my country's reality.	我们国家的现实
318	And I do so not just as a member of the Oxford Union,	我不仅仅是牛津大学联盟的成员
319	but as a Mumbaika, but as someone	但作为孟买人但作为某人
320	who has lived through the consequences	曾经经历过后果的人
321	of the Indian, of the India-Pakistan saga	印度人、印度-巴基斯坦人
322	in his own home and heart.	在自己的家园和心脏。
323	Yesterday was 26-11, November 26th,	昨天是11月26日 11月26号
324	which in my city is not an ordinary date	在我的城市不是普通的约会
325	on the calendar.	在日历上。
326	It marks the day when in 2008, 10 terrorists	它标志着2008年的一天,10名恐怖分子
327	stormed across iconic sites across my hometown,	冲进我家乡的标志性网站
328	unleashing three days of bloodshed.	发动三天流血事件。
329	One of those targets was Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj	目标之一是查特拉帕蒂·希瓦吉·马哈拉伊
330	terminus, 就是我姨妈的车站
331	passed through almost every evening.	几乎每晚都会经过
332	By chance or by providence,	偶然的或天赐的
333	she took a different train home that night.	她那晚坐另一班火车回家
334	Narrowly escaping the fate of the 166 souls	勉强逃离166个灵魂的命运
335	that did not.	没有
336	Another target was the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel,	另一个目标是泰姬陵宫酒店
337	where my best friend's father,	我最好的朋友的父亲,
338	a major in the National Security Guard,	国家安全卫队少校
339	was one of the first commandos to rappel	是第一个说唱的突击队员之一
340	into a burning inferno.	变成烈火,
341	I was a schoolboy then,	那时我还是个学生
342	glued to the television as my city burnt.	粘在电视上,因为我的城市被烧焦。
343	I remember the fear in my mother's voice	我记得我母亲的恐惧
344	on the phone,	在电话中,
345	the tension in my father's clenched jaw.	我父亲下巴的张力
346	For three nights, Mumbai did not sleep	三个晚上孟买都没睡
347	and neither did I.	我也一样
348	As a child, I learned too early	小时候,我学得太早了
349	that security is not an abstract policy issue.	安全不是一个抽象的政策问题。
350	It is the difference between life and death.	是生死差别.
351	The difference between a phone call from a loved one	爱人电话的区别
352	or silence that lasts forever.	或寂静永存.
353	I share this, not to darken the mood,	我分享这个,不是想让心情变暗,
354	but to ground this debate in reality.	但是为了让这场辩论成为现实
355	For me, this isn't just an intellectual exercise.	对我来说,这不仅仅是一项智力运动.
356	It's painfully personal.	这是痛苦的个人。
357	The railway station, 200 meters from my childhood home,	火车站距离我童年的家200米
358	was bombed in the 1993 serial blast	在1993年连环爆炸中遭到轰炸
359	that killed over 250 people.	这杀死了250多人。
360	I grew up under the shadows of these tragedies.	我在这悲剧的阴影下长大
361	My parents, who are here in the chamber tonight,	我的父母,谁今晚在这里的房间,
362	listening anxiously to their son,	他们急切地听从他们的儿子的话,
363	raise me with the stories of those dark days	以那些黑暗的日子的故事来告诉我
364	and the mantra that we must always be alert.	以及我们必须时刻保持警惕的口号。
365	So when someone claims that India's tough stance	所以当有人声称印度的强硬立场
366	towards Pakistan is merely populism masquerading	对巴基斯坦只是民粹主义的伪装
367	as security policy,	作为安全政策,
368	you might understand why I bristle.	你可能明白我为什么发牢骚了
369	It sounds like someone telling you	听起来像是有人告诉你的
370	that the locks on your doors are just for show,	你门上的锁只是为了展示
371	not because there are robberies in the neighborhood.	不是因为附近有抢劫案
372	But before we delve deeper into that notion,	但是在深入探讨这个概念之前
373	let me first address the three gentlemen arrayed against me.	我首先要跟三位绅士谈谈对抗我的问题
374	A rather formidable proposition bench,	一个相当可怕的提议席,
375	if there ever was one.	如果有一个。
376	They say this house loves a good show.	听说这房子很爱表演
377	My opponents have certainly delivered on the casting.	我的对手肯定在铸造上完成了
378	First, we have our union president, Mr. Musa Haraj,	首先我们的工会主席穆萨·哈拉伊先生
379	leading the charge for the proposition.	领导对提议的指控。
380	Musa is not only the president of this union,	穆萨不仅是这个工会的主席
381	he's also Pakistani by birth	出生也是巴基斯坦人
382	and a very, very dear friend of mine.	和一位非常,非常亲爱的朋友
383	In fact, as his chief of staff,	事实上作为他的幕僚长
384	I've spent months working with him,	我和他一起工作了好几个月
385	which makes tonight a tad bit awkward.	这让今晚有点尴尬。
386	Because technically, I'm supposed to make him look good.	因为从技术上讲,我应该让他好看
387	But here I am, last night, writing his speech for him.	但我昨晚为他写了演讲稿
388	Musa, you've had an interesting time, haven't you?	穆萨,你玩得很开心吧?
389	Just a few weeks ago, he said...	几周前,他说...
390	What an information.	真是个信息
391	So you're admitting in a chamber	所以,你承认在一个房间
392	that what I just said was written by an Indian, you.	我刚说的是一个印第安人写的,你。
393	To respond, I shall gladly admit	我很乐意承认
394	that sometimes it takes an Indian	有时需要印度人
395	to clean up the incompetence of a Pakistani.	清理巴基斯坦人的无能
396	Now, Musa, you've had an interesting time, haven't you?	穆萨,你玩得很开心吧?
397	Just a few weeks ago, Musa survived	几周前,穆萨活了下来
398	a historic no-confidence vote	历史性的不信任投票
399	right here in the Oxford Union.	就在牛津工会这里
400	For the uninitiated, yes, Oxford Union presidents	对未发起者来说,是的,牛津联合会主席
401	sometimes face more rebellions than actual heads of state.	有时比实际的国家元首面临更多的叛乱.
402	The vote failed and Musa sailed through unscathed	投票失败了,穆萨顺利航行
403	with a thumping majority,	以倾斜的多数,
404	making him arguably the only Pakistani origin leader	使他成为唯一的巴基斯坦裔领袖
405	in history to face a no-confidence vote	在历史上面对不信任投票
406	and remain in power the next morning.	并在第二天早上继续掌权。
407	I tease my friend, of course, but there's a serious point.	我逗我的朋友,当然, 但有一个严肃的观点。
408	Musa's victory was a triumph of transparent,	穆萨的胜利是透明的胜利,
409	open and democratic processes.	开放和民主进程。
410	An Oxford Union specialty.	牛津大学联盟专业.
411	Now, now, now, now.	现在,现在,现在,现在。
412	Only if some folks in Ralpindi could say the same.	只有拉尔品第的一些人能这么说
413	And look who sits with you.	且道谁与汝坐.
414	The glorious ghost of the presidency's past.	总统过去光荣的幽灵.
415	We have Ahmed Nawaz,	我们有艾哈迈德·纳瓦兹
416	the president for Mikulma's term 2022.	2022年米库尔玛任期的总统.
417	Ahmed, you're a man of resilience.	艾哈迈德,你是一个有弹性的人。
418	You survived the horrors of the APS attack.	你从APS袭击的恐怖中幸免于难
419	You have my utmost respect for that	我最尊重你这点
420	for the rest of my life.	我的余生。
421	But you also survived, barely so,	但你也活了下来勉强如此
422	the internal politics of this chamber.	本会议厅的内部政治。
423	You hold a unique distinction	你有一个独特的区别
424	of being the only Pakistani president in history	成为历史上唯一的巴基斯坦总统
425	who was not removed by a coup, but an auto-resignation.	他们不是因为政变而被罢免而是自动辞职
426	An auto-resignation for missing access committee meetings.	缺席的准入委员会会议自动辞职。
427	Now, the official record says that you were busy.	现在,官方记录说你很忙
428	我们都看到了Instagram的故事
429	of you doing shots with bad baby.	你和坏孩子一起开枪
430	Now, doesn't Oxford Union president	现在,不是牛津大学联盟主席
431	have to be caught outside?	一定要在外面被抓吗?
432	Following on, we have Israr Khan,	之后,我们有了伊斯拉尔汗,
433	the president of Hillary term 2025.	希拉里2025年任期的主席
434	Israr, this is a special moment for me.	伊斯拉尔,这对我来说是一个特殊的时刻。
435	In my first term here, you were Ahmed's chief of staff.	我在这里的第一个任期你是艾哈迈德的幕僚长
436	You were the man behind the throne.	你是宝座的幕后黑手
437	You watched him fall.	你看着他摔倒了
438	You fought the dirty politics.	你和肮脏的政治斗争过
439	And like a true survivor,	像一个真正的幸存者,
440	you climbed the ladder to become president yourself.	你爬上梯子去当总统
441	I'm the chief of staff now.	我现在是参谋长了
442	I have seen the walk that you walked.	我见过你走过的路
443	I have taken notes.	我已经做了笔记。
444	You taught me that the Oxford Union,	你教会我牛津工会
445	like in Islamabad, chaos isn't a pit.	就像在伊斯兰堡混乱不是坑
446	Chaos is a ladder.	混乱是梯子。
447	So when I look at you over there arguing against India,	所以当我看着你在那里与印度争吵时
448	having mastered British institutional survivalism,	掌握了英国的制度生存主义,
449	I don't know whether to rebut you	我不知道该不该反驳你
450	or ask you for a reference letter.	或者问你一个参考信。
451	Now, are we all acquainted	现在,我们都知道了
452	with the spirit of the Oxford Union debate?	与牛津大学联盟辩论的精神?
453	A bit of bite, a bit of banter.	咬了一口咬了一顿
454	Let's get to the meat of the matter.	以事肉为主.
455	The motion asserts that India's policy	动议声称,印度的政策
456	towards Pakistan is populism disguised as security policy.	对巴基斯坦的民粹主义伪装成安全政策。
457	In other words, that India cynically fashions	换句话说,印度玩世不恭
458	its Pakistan strategy just to win votes or applause	巴基斯坦的战略就是赢得选票或掌声
459	rather than to genuinely protect itself.	而不是真正保护自己。
460	As the first speaker of the opposition,	作为第一位反对党发言人,
461	I reject this wholeheartedly.	我全心全意地拒绝
462	I will show you, step by step,	我会告诉你,一步一步,
463	how India's policy is primarily driven	印度政策的主要驱动力
464	by legitimate security concerns and not cheap populism.	而不是廉价的民粹主义
465	And in doing so,	这样一来,
466	I should also flip the mirror to our friends	我也该把镜子翻给我们的朋友看
467	because if any nation has suffered from the leaders	如果有哪个民族曾遭受领袖们的亏折,
468	who wrap themselves in the flag of popularity,	他们把自己封在受欢迎的旗帜中,
469	it isn't India, it is Pakistan.	这不是印度,是巴基斯坦。
470	The proposition's argument is seductive.	命题的论证是诱人的.
471	It suggests that the Indian state manufactures threats.	这表明,印度国家制造威胁。
472	We invent bogeymen,	我创造恶魔,
473	that we use the border as a ballot box to whip up votes.	我们用边界作为投票箱来鞭打选票。
474	They argue that when India strikes back,	他们认为当印度反击时
475	we're not protecting our citizens.	我们没有保护我们的公民。
476	We're performing for them.	我们在为他们表演
477	To win this debate, I do not need to use rhetoric.	为了赢得这场辩论,我不需要夸夸其谈。
478	I simply need to use a calendar.	我只需要用日历
479	If the proposition is true,	如果这个提议是真的
480	if the Indian security policy is just populism,	如果印度的安全政策只是民粹主义,
481	then crises should corroborate with the elections.	危机应该与选举相印证。
482	The bomb should go off when the polls open.	民意调查结束后炸弹应该爆炸了
483	Let us look at the data and let us be inductive.	让我们看一看数据,让我们具有启发性。
484	I grew up in the heart of Mumbai.	我在孟买市中心长大
485	My home was not too far from where in March 1993,	我家离1993年3月哪里也不远
486	RDX explosives ripped through Plaza Cinema.	RDX炸药从Plaza电影院里撕破了
487	It was a part of a coordinated series of 12 blasts	这是12次爆炸协调系列的一部分
488	that turned my city into a morgue.	把我的城市变成了停尸房
489	257 people died.	257人死亡.
490	I was not born there.	我没有在那里出生。
491	But I grew up with the crater it left in our psyche.	但我从小就带着它留在我们的心灵里
492	Now ask yourself, was there an election in March 1993?	现在问问你自己 1993年3月有没有选举?
493	That election was three years away.	那次选举是在三年之后进行的。
494	Was the government looking for a populist distraction?	政府是想分散民粹主义者的注意力吗?
495	No.	没有
496	The government was weak.	政府软弱无力.
497	The economy was opening up and we were desperate for stability.	经济正在开放,我们渴望稳定。
498	Terror did not come because we needed a vote.	恐怖并没有出现,因为我们需要表决。
499	It came because Dawood and the ISI	是因为达伍德和三军情报局
500	wanted to fracture India's financial spine.	想要打破印度的金融脊椎
501	That was not populism.	这不是民粹主义。
502	That was an act of war.	那是一场战争
503	I remember my aunt once again,	我还记得我姨妈
504	生动地,通过查图尔维迪·希瓦吉(英语:Chaturvedi Shivaji terminus)旅行.
505	She put out of the train station at 9.27 p.m.	她晚上9点27分离开火车站
506	and the terrorists entered at 9.30.	9点30分进入
507	Three minutes is the difference between my aunt	三分钟是我姨妈的区别
508	watching from home tonight	今晚从家里看
509	and her being engraved in a memorial stone in South Bombay.	她被刻在南孟买的一块纪念石上
510	Ten men held the city of 20 million hostage.	十人挟持二千万城.
511	Now look at the policy response.	现在看看对策。
512	The proposition says that India is populist.	主张说印度是民粹主义者.
513	What would a populist government do after 26-11?	民粹主义政府26-11后会做什么?.
514	The public rage was nuclear.	公众愤怒是核。
515	I remember it.	我记得
516	We wanted blood.	我们想要血
517	We wanted the Air Force to flatten the training camps in Mudharaki.	我们希望空军能平整穆达拉基的训练营.
518	A populist leader would have just launched the jets to win the next election.	一个民粹主义领袖会刚刚推出喷气式飞机来赢得下一次选举.
519	But the government of the day, the Congress party,	但当时的政府,国会党,
520	chose strategic restraint.	选择了战略约束。
521	They chose diplomacy.	他们选择了外交。
522	They chose to send dossiers.	他们选择发送档案。
523	They appealed to the international community.	他们呼吁国际社会。
524	They appealed to you.	他们呼吁你。
525	Did it work?	有用吗?
526	Did the non-populist approach buy us peace?	非民粹主义的做法是否为我们赢得了和平?
527	No.	没有
528	它给我们买了Pathankot。
529	It bought us Uri.	它给我们买了尤里。
530	It bought us Pulwama.	它给我们买了普尔瓦玛。
531	We learned a hard lesson, Mr. President.	主席先生,我们学到了一个艰难的教训。
532	You cannot shame a state that has no shame.	你不能让一个没有羞耻感的国家蒙羞。
533	Let's move to the present.	迁尚书.
534	Six months ago, the proposition claimed	六个月前, 主张
535	the skirmishes this May were electioneering.	今年五月的战斗是选举
536	Check the dates.	检查日期。
537	The elections for the Indian general parliament were over.	印度总议会的选举已经结束。
538	The government was secure.	政府是安全的。
539	Apologies.	对不起
540	The government was secure.	政府是安全的。
541	On 22nd of April, terrorists from the resistance front,	4月22日,来自抵抗阵线的恐怖分子,
542	a cheap rebrand of the Lashkar-e-Toiba, attacked tourists in Belgaum.	在贝尔加姆袭击游客。
543	They dragged out 26 people and killed them for their religion.	他们拖走了26人,并因为他们的宗教而杀害了他们。
544	They didn't ask who they voted for.	他们没有问他们投谁的票。
545	They executed them.	他们处决了他们。
546	India's response, Operation Sindoor, was launched on the 7th of May.	印度的对策"辛门行动"于5月7日启动.
547	Note the name, Sindoor.	注意名字,辛门
548	The mammalian mark of a Hindu wife.	印度教妻子的哺乳动物标记.
549	It was not Operation Thunder or Operation Wrath.	这不是雷霆行动或怒吼行动。
550	It was named for the widows created by that massacre.	它是为那次屠杀造成的寡妇而命名的。
551	It was a surgical dismantling of nine launch pads.	这是9个发射台的手术拆除
552	We degraded trade-off systems in Lahore.	我们破坏了拉合尔的权衡制度。
553	We punished the perpetrators.	我们惩罚了肇事者。
554	And then what?	然后怎样?
555	We stopped.	我们停下来了。
556	We did not invade.	我们没有入侵。
557	We did not occupy.	我们没有占领。
558	We did not hold a parade in Delhi.	我们在德里没有举行游行。
559	We reestablished deterrents and went back to work.	我们重新建立了威慑力量,并回去工作。
560	That is not populism.	这不是民粹主义。
561	That is professionalism.	这就是专业精神。
562	The proposition confuses popular with populist.	命题与民粹主义者混淆.
563	Yes, Mr. President,	是的,总统先生,
564	defending your citizens from being murdered is popular.	保护公民不被谋杀很受欢迎
565	Providing clean water is popular.	提供清洁水很受欢迎。
566	Keeping the railway safe is popular.	保持铁路安全很受欢迎.
567	That does not make it a trick.	这不等于是诡计
568	Populism is promising easy answers to complex problems.	民粹主义是对复杂问题的简单答案充满希望。
569	Security is doing the hard, expensive, dangerous work	保安正在做艰苦,昂贵,危险的工作
570	of ensuring that a child and the other can go to the cinema	确保儿童和其他人能够上电影院
571	without being blown up.	没有被炸掉
572	If you want to see the actual populism	如果你想看真正的民粹主义
573	disguised as security,	伪装成安全,
574	you must only look across the Radcliffe Line.	你只能看拉德克利夫线
575	When India launched Operation Sindoor,	当印度发起辛门行动时,
576	how did Pakistan respond?	巴基斯坦的反应如何?
577	Did it fix its security gaps?	它是否弥补了安全漏洞?
578	No.	没有
579	Operation Bunyan al-Masoos was launched.	邦扬·马苏斯行动启动.
580	The solid cemented wall, a Quranic reference,	坚固的墙壁,
581	designed not for tactical efficacy,	设计不具有战术效果,
582	but for religious mobilization.	但是为了宗教动员
583	You launched missiles at our bases in Udampur,	你在乌丹普尔的基地发射导弹
584	had them shot down,	让他们被击落,
585	had 11 bases struck,	11个基地被击中,
586	and achieved at best a tactical stalemate.	并且充其量实现了战术僵局。
587	And then, after all of that, what do you do?	然后,毕竟,你做什么的?
588	You release a music video.	你发布了一个音乐视频。
589	The ISPR, your military's PR wing,	ISPR,你的军方的公关部门,
590	released an anthem,	放了一首国歌,
591	(原始内容存档于2018-09-21). Dharkan pe ek hi Naam Pakistan.
592	Mr. President, when India fights a war,	主席先生,当印度打仗时,
593	we debrief the pilots.	我们向飞行员汇报情况
594	In Pakistan, they auto-tune the chorus.	在巴基斯坦,他们自动调整合唱。
595	You held victory rallies on the 16th of May.	你在5月16日举行了胜利集会。
596	You declared a national holiday.	你宣布了国庆
597	Why?	为什么?
598	Because you cannot give your people bread,	因为你不能给你的人面包,
599	so you must give them the circus.	所以你必须给他们马戏团。
600	You cannot fix the price of flour,	你无法固定面粉的价格,
601	so you fixate on the Indian threat.	所以,你确定印度的威胁。
602	You need the enemy of the gate.	你需要城门的敌人
603	Without the Indian monster,	没有印度怪物,
604	your own people may turn around and ask	你的人可能会转身问
605	why generals own Papa John's franchises	为什么将军拥有约翰爸爸的特许权?
606	while the country defaults on its loans.	国家则拖欠贷款。
607	That is populism.	这是民粹主义。
608	That is the alchemy of turning public poverty	这就是改变公共贫困的炼金术
609	into private power with the specter of war.	进入私人权力与战争的幽灵。
610	When you vote for this motion,	当你投票支持这个动议时,
611	you are telling the widows of Balgam	你告诉巴尔加姆的寡妇
612	that their grief is just a prop for the government.	他们的悲痛只是政府的道具
613	You are telling my parents sitting right there	你告诉我的父母就坐在那里
614	that the fear that they felt	他们的恐惧
615	when the windows shook in 93	93年窗户震动时
616	or the panic they felt when my aunt	或者我姨妈的恐慌
617	didn't answer the phone in 2008	2008年没有接电话
618	was just a disguise.	只是一个伪装。
619	It's easy to deconstruct security policy	解构安全政策很容易
620	in the Oxford Union.	牛津大学
621	Our walls are thick.	我们的墙很厚
622	Our windows are well plastered.	我们的窗户都铺好了
623	The world feels safe.	世界感觉安全。
624	We can debate narratives and discourse	我们可以辩论叙事和言论
625	over port and she's,	在港口,她,
626	but out there in the real world,	但是在现实世界里
627	the wolf is at the door.	狼就在门口
628	India has decided to stop feeding the wolf.	印度决定停止喂养狼.
629	We've decided to stop sending it dossiers.	我们决定不再发档案
630	We have decided to shoot it.	我们决定拍摄它。
631	That is not populism.	这不是民粹主义。
632	That is the biological imperative	这是生物学上的必要
633	of a nation that refuses to die.	一个不肯死的民族。
634	We do not want war.	我们不希望战争。
635	We want to be boring neighbors.	我们想成为无聊的邻居。
636	We want to trade onions and electricity.	我们想用洋葱和电来交换
637	We want to play your cricket team	我们想打你的板球队
638	without worrying if the away team	不用担心如果离队
639	is bringing bats to see four.	带蝙蝠来见四只
640	But until the state that defends itself	但直到国家自卫
641	stops using terror as an instrument	停止利用恐怖手段
642	of foreign policy,	外交政策,
643	we will keep our powder dry.	我们将保持我们的粉干。
644	We will keep our radars on	我们将保持我们的雷达
645	and we will keep our guards up.	我们将保持我们的守卫。
646	If that is populism,	如果这是民粹主义,
647	then I am a populist.	那我就是民粹主义者了
648	If that is a disguise,	如果这是伪装,
649	then I will wear it	那样我就穿了
650	because the alternative is not liberalism.	因为另一种选择不是自由主义。
651	The alternative is 26 11 on repeat.	另一种办法是重复26 11次。
652	Tonight, I may have been belligerent	今夜,我可能一直好战
653	in defending my country stance,	为了捍卫我国的立场,
654	but I also hope	但我也希望这样
655	that I've been fair and factual.	说我一直公平事实。
656	I do not hate Pakistan.	我不讨厌巴基斯坦。
657	I truly wish to see a Pakistan	我真的希望看到一个巴基斯坦
658	that is safe, stable, prosperous	安全、稳定、繁荣
659	and at peace with us.	与我们和平相处。
660	I dream of a day	我梦见一天
661	where I could take a train	在那里我可以坐火车
662	from Mumbai to Lahore	从孟买到拉合尔
663	and have kebabs in Gawamandi	在加瓦曼迪有烤面包
664	or when the Indian cricket team captain	或当印度板球队队长
665	and the Pakistani cricket team captain	巴基斯坦板球队队长
666	can joke about their schools,	开他们学校的玩笑
667	their kids' schools	他们的孩子的学校
668	because politics has ceased to matter.	因为政治已经不再重要了
669	I'm an idealist by heart,	我是一个理想主义者的心脏,
670	but unfortunately,	但不幸的是,
671	I am a realist by circumstance.	我是个现实主义者
672	But for that day to come,	但为了那一天
673	you must first deal in truth.	你得先说实话
674	And the truth is	事实是
675	calling India's Pakistan policy	呼吁印度的巴基斯坦政策
676	populism in disguise	伪装的民粹主义
677	is a dangerous distortion.	这是一种危险的扭曲。
678	It implies that we're all just play acting,	这意味着我们都只是在演戏
679	that there's no wolf on the door,	门上没有狼
680	but there is.	但确实有
681	Recognizing this wolf	认得这头狼
682	doesn't mean we should keep living	不代表我们应该活下去
683	in fear of it.	在恐惧中。
684	It just means that we need to know	只是意味着我们需要知道
685	to have the bigger stick	拥有更大的棍子
686	when you're trying to build	当你试图建设
687	the bigger fence.	更大的围栏。
688	Perhaps in a not so distant future,	也许在一个不那么遥远的未来,
689	a young debater from Mumbai	孟买的年轻辩论者
690	and a young debater from Lahore,	和一个来自拉合尔的年轻辩论者,
691	Quetta or Peshawar	奎达或白沙瓦
692	will stand here	将站在这里
693	not to argue about war and policy,	不争论战争和政策,
694	but to argue about	但为了争吵
695	who has the better music	谁有更好的音乐
696	or who has the better biryani.	或谁有更好的比利亚尼。
697	Obviously, the answer to both is India.	显然,两者的答案都是印度。
698	Jokes aside,	开玩笑
699	that is the debate I want to have.	这就是我想要的辩论。
700	We aren't there yet.	我们还没到
701	To get there,	为了到那里
702	we must first ensure	我们必须首先确保
703	the policy is rooted in reality	政策根植于现实
704	and security	安保事务
705	and not lost in the fog of propaganda.	而不是在宣传的雾中迷失
706	India is doing its part	印度正在尽自己的一份力量。
707	by treating security	通过处理担保
708	with the gravity it deserves.	以它应得的重力。
709	Populism,	民粹主义
710	we leave to the TV studios.	我们离开到电视工作室。
711	Ladies and gentlemen,	女士们,先生们,
712	I beg you to oppose the motion.	我恳求你反对动议
713	Thank you.	谢谢
714	Thank you very much.	谢谢
715	You still have a job,	你还有工作
716	so it didn't go that bad.	所以没那么糟
717	I now look to	我现在期待
718	the ex-president	前总统
719	of Regent's Park College	总督公园学院
720	to continue the case	继续审理此案
721	for side proposition.	给侧面的提议。
722	Thank you, Mr. President.	谢谢你,总统先生。
723	Members of the House,	众议员,
724	ladies and gentlemen,	女士们,先生们,
725	when the government tells you	当政府告诉你
726	that this is about security,	这是关于安全,
727	you should always ask a second question.	你应该总是问第二个问题。
728	Security for whom	为谁提供安保
729	and against what?	对抗什么?
730	This motion has two parts to it.	这个动议有两个部分。
731	First, India's policy	第一,印度的政策
732	and then their policy	然后他们的政策
733	to react as a security.	作为安全反应
734	Tonight, on this side of the House,	今晚,在议会的这边,
735	we already heard from the president	总统已经来电了
736	to continue the case	继续审理此案
737	for side proposition.	给侧面的提议。
738	I'll focus on this specific element.	我将专注于这个特定元素。
739	What policy are we talking about?	我们在谈论什么政策?
740	In order to understand that policy,	为了了解这项政策,
741	it is very important to look at	看看这个很重要
742	in the domestic context.	在国内范围内。
743	It's once you understand	这是一次你明白
744	the domestic policy,	国内政策,
745	then can you only understand	那样你才能明白
746	the external attitude	外部态度
747	of India towards Pakistan.	印度对巴基斯坦的访问。
748	And when we speak on this side	当我们在这边说话时
749	of the House on this motion,	根据这项动议,
750	when you talk about India's policy,	当你谈论印度的政策,
751	we are talking about	我们在谈论
752	India's policies as we speak now,	印度的政策,我们现在发言,
753	India's policy under Modi.	印度在莫迪统治下的政策.
754	And on this side of the House,	而在座的这边
755	it is our position	这是我们的立场
756	that this policy is a populist policy.	这种政策是民粹主义政策。
757	A populist strategy	民粹主义的策略
758	needs enemies of the people.	需要人民的敌人
759	And in the India's domestic context,	而在印度国内,
760	under Narendra Modi,	在纳伦德拉·莫迪的领导下
761	that enemy is drawn	画出敌人
762	from the Muslim population	从穆斯林人口中
763	and from minorities	少数群体
764	and abroad it is Pakistan.	在国外是巴基斯坦。
765	India, tonight I will show you	印度,今晚我会告诉你
766	factually, historically and morally	事实、历史和道德
767	that this policy is not a security doctrine.	这项政策不是安全理论。
768	It is a Hindutva populism	这是印度的民粹主义
769	that does not align	不对齐
770	with the homogeneous nation	与同一民族,
771	that India is or with the secularism	印度是或与世俗主义
772	or the constitution of the very state	或州宪法
773	that Modi thinks it stands for.	莫迪认为它代表。
774	However, it is important	然而,重要的是
775	before I do that to respond	在我做出回应之前
776	to some points from my friends	从我的朋友的几点
777	from side opposition.	从侧面反对。
778	We will have already heard from Viranj	我们早就听到维兰杰的消息了
779	and will continue to hear from Viranj	并会继续听到维兰日的消息
780	that Pakistan propagates terrorism,	巴基斯坦宣传恐怖主义,
781	that Pakistan is a security threat	巴基斯坦是一个安全威胁
782	because it poses dangers	因为它带来危险
783	to the population of India.	对印度人民的影响。
784	Let's be clear that Pakistan	说清楚巴基斯坦
785	is the largest victim of terrorism	是恐怖主义的最大受害者
786	in the South Asia.	在南亚。
787	It has suffered	它已经遭受了
788	since the war of terror	自恐怖战争以来
789	started in 2001,	2001年开始,
790	50,000 people lost to the war on terror.	5万人死于反恐战争.
791	In this very house,	在这个房子里,
792	Viranj talked about	维兰吉说过
793	the terrorist attacks in India.	印度的恐怖袭击。
794	We do not deny that	我们不否认
795	there have been terrorist attacks in India	印度发生了恐怖袭击
796	and our heart goes to	我们的心脏去
797	with the Indian people	与印度人民的合作
798	and with India on that.	和印度在那个方面。
799	But it is Pakistan	不过是巴基斯坦
800	that is the victim of terrorism.	这是恐怖主义的受害者。
801	In this very house	在这个房子里
802	we have people sitting	我们有人坐着
803	who have been the survivors	他们是幸存者,
804	of the terrorist attacks	恐怖袭击事件
805	that at times have been sponsored	有时被赞助
806	by India proxies in Pakistan.	由巴基斯坦的印度代办。
807	It has lost 126 billion	它损失了1 26亿
808	since 2001	自2001年以来
809	just to the war on terror.	只为了反恐战争
810	So we as a nation	因此,我们作为一个国家
811	have suffered the most	已经遭受了最大的痛苦
812	when you talk about terrorism.	当你谈论恐怖主义。
813	And part of that is also	这部分也是
814	contributed to the proxy wars	促成代理战争
815	India is operating in Pakistan.	印度正在巴基斯坦开展活动。
816	In my state Balochistan	在我这个俾路支邦
817	in the form of supporting	支助形式
818	the Balochistan Liberation Army,	俾路支解放军,
819	today I cannot walk out	今天我不能离开
820	after 5 p.m. in my own province	晚上5点后,我省
821	because of the proxy elements of India	因为印度的代理元素
822	that do not allow	不允许
823	for a free flow of Pakistanis to go there	让巴基斯坦人自由出入那里
824	or Balochistanis to be there.	或俾路支人将在那里。
825	The Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan	巴基斯坦塔利班
826	that operates in the tribal areas	在部落地区活动的人
827	of Pakistan	巴基斯坦
828	that is the largest threat	这是最大的威胁
829	to the sovereignty of Pakistan	给巴基斯坦主权
830	is sponsored again	被再次赞助
831	by Indian proxies.	由印度的代理人。
832	So when we talk about terrorism	所以当我们谈论恐怖主义
833	Pakistan is the victim	巴基斯坦是受害者
834	and yes India has suffered	印度遭受了痛苦
835	but to contribute there to Pakistan	向巴基斯坦捐款
836	is absurdity.	这是荒谬的。
837	Take the example	举个例子
838	of the recent Palgham attack.	最近帕尔格姆的袭击。
839	Pakistan was very open to the world	巴基斯坦对世界非常开放
840	to come and investigate	来调查
841	to put together an international inquiry	进行国际调查
842	as to who is responsible	至于谁应负责任
843	for these attacks.	为这些攻击。
844	Instead of participating	而不是参与
845	in that inquiry	在调查中
846	what does Modi do?	莫迪会做什么?
847	Because it does not suit him	因为不适合他
848	to have inquiries	调查
849	because it will show	因为它会显示
850	that Pakistan is not involved.	巴基斯坦没有参与。
851	Instead he acts in a war of aggression	而是在侵略战争中行动
852	attacking civilians in Pakistan	袭击巴基斯坦平民
853	across the board.	包罗万象。
854	Now that is Modi's policy.	这是莫迪的政策
855	A policy where he gets a moment	给他一点时间
856	where he gets a moment	只要他有时间
857	to unite people	团结人民
858	the Hindu population	印度人
859	in majority against Pakistan	以多数反对巴基斯坦
860	he will take advantage of that.	他会利用这一点。
861	Yeah sure.	当然
862	It's extremely irrelevant	这绝对无关紧要
863	whether a head of state	是否国家元首
864	in Pakistan can be Muslim.	在巴基斯坦,可以是穆斯林。
865	The Prime Minister of Pakistan	巴基斯坦总理
866	has all the powers	拥有一切权力
867	and the Prime Minister of Pakistan	巴基斯坦总理
868	can be Muslim, yes.	可以是穆斯林,没错。
869	I hope that answers your question.	我希望这能回答你的问题。
870	So let's talk about	所以,让我们谈谈
871	India's policies internally.	印度的内部政策。
872	Let's talk, let's look into it	我们谈谈,我们调查一下
873	in Modi's own words.	用莫迪的话来说
874	Human Rights Watch analyzed	人权观察分析
875	in 2024 alone 173 speeches	仅2024年就有173场演讲
876	of Modi before the election	在选举前,
877	and 110 of those speeches	其中110个发言
878	they were about Islamophobia	和仇视伊斯兰教有关
879	the war against minorities in India	印度对少数民族的战争
880	all as a pattern	所有作为图案
881	to unite the Hindu population	团结印度教人民
882	the common population	总人口
883	to create fear	制造恐惧
884	to create a common enemy	创造共同的敌人
885	so he can utilize that	这样他就可以利用这个
886	for his own benefits.	为了他自己的利益
887	A Prime Minister	总理
888	who has been summoned	被传唤的人
889	Prime Minister twice before	总理两次
890	runs for the third time	第三次运行
891	and his speeches says the following	他的演讲说:
892	the Muslims are infiltrators	穆斯林是渗透的,
893	they threaten the safety	他们威胁着安全
894	of our children and daughter.	我们的孩子和女儿。
895	He says that the opposition	他说反对派
896	will bulldoze the Ram temple	会把拉姆神庙推倒
897	and return Hindu gods	并归还印度教的众神,
898	to attend creating fear	参与制造恐惧
899	fear that the largest minority	担心最大的少数
900	in India is the thing	在印度就是这样
901	to worry about.	担心。
902	After this I will come to you.	之后我会去找你
903	He goes on	他继续说
904	the Muslims are trying	穆斯林正在尝试
905	to destroy our gods	毁灭我们的神明
906	they are engaging in vote jihad	他们正在参加圣战
907	his words not my words.	他的话不是我说的话
908	Now these are not dog whistles	现在这些不是狗哨子
909	these are sirens of Hattu	这些是哈图的警笛
910	they are open calls	他们是公开的电话
911	for a majoritarian fair	一个多数派的集市
912	where he's cultivating	在那里,他种植
913	before every time	之前的每次
914	there is an election	有选举
915	because it works for Modi.	因为它对莫迪有用。
916	This is not democracy	这不是民主
917	this is not secularism	这不是世俗主义
918	and this is not security.	这不是安全。
919	Now how the impact it has	现在它有什么影响
920	first the impact it has internally	首先它内部的影响
921	in response to this	为此,
922	Hindu rise in violence	印度教暴力的上升
923	lynching of Muslim minorities	对穆斯林少数群体的私刑
924	cow protection groups	保护牛团体
925	lynching people across India	印度各地的私刑
926	and again these are not my reports	这又不是我的报告
927	these are reports	这些是报告
928	from the Human Rights Watch	人权观察社
929	and then this is the impact	然后这就是影响
930	goes into Kashmir	进入克什米尔
931	BJP在其中
932	bans Muslim refugees as terrorists	禁止穆斯林难民成为恐怖分子
933	strips Kashmir of its autonomy	克什米尔的自治
934	and poses discriminatory laws	构成歧视性法律
935	of citizenship.	国籍。
936	Once you have told 1.4 billion people	一旦你告诉14亿人
937	that Muslims are a threat	穆斯林是一个威胁
938	you have prepared them	你准备好了
939	to believe that Pakistan	认为巴基斯坦
940	a Muslim majority neighbor	穆斯林占多数的邻居
941	is an existential threat	是一种生存威胁
942	and is an existential enemy	并且是一个存在的敌人
943	that is how it translates	这就是它如何翻译
944	into then an external policy	成为对外政策
945	when you see it as a group	当你把它看作一个团体
946	of a country of religious zealots	一个宗教狂热的国家
947	you see it as a security threat	你认为这是安全威胁
948	because you're not ready	因为你还没准备好
949	for peace and dialogue with them.	争取和平并与它们进行对话。
950	What do you mean	你说什么
951	that it has not been stripped	它没有被剥光
952	of its autonomy?	它的自主性?
953	There is a demographic change	有人口变化
954	of population to ensure	人口数量
955	that a Muslim majority autonomy state	穆斯林多数自治国
956	converts into Hindu majority	皈依印度教多数
957	an international term	国际术语
958	that is apartheid.	这就是种族隔离。
959	If today the International Court of Justice	如果今天是国际法院
960	investigates India under Modi	调查莫迪统治下的印度
961	for its policies	落实其政策
962	it will be committing apartheid	将实行种族隔离
963	because of its consistent	因为它始终如一
964	pattern of policies	政策模式
965	whether that is demographic changes	这是否是人口变化
966	whether that is ensuring	是否正在确保
967	that the minority is put	少数群体被安置
968	as the greatest danger	作为最大的危险
969	to the India as a whole	给整个印度的普通照会
970	that is nothing short	没什么
971	of populism and populist strategy.	民粹主义和民粹主义的策略
972	But coming back to the points	但回到要点
973	the threat to security	对安全的威胁
974	every time closer to election	每次接近选举
975	there is an attack	有攻击
976	Modi blames Pakistan.	莫迪指责巴基斯坦.
977	We saw this in the 2019 election	我们在2019年的选举中看到了这一点
978	the Pulwama Balakot attack.	普尔瓦马巴拉科特的进攻
979	First in Pulwama	第一个在普尔瓦马
980	there was a terrorist attack	发生了一起恐怖袭击
981	Modi blames Pakistan	莫迪责怪巴基斯坦
982	and the next day we have	第二天我们有了
983	Modi and India's jet	莫迪和印度的飞机
984	shooting across into Balakot	向巴拉科特射击
985	again not very successfully.	也不太顺利。
986	Come back to the recent	回到最近的那个
987	2025 April attack.	2025年4月攻击.
988	India launches again into Pakistan	印度再次向巴基斯坦发射
989	this time with the shining	这次是闪耀
990	Rafale jets but fails	拉法尔喷气机但故障
991	because Pakistan's military	因为巴基斯坦的军队
992	has the ability	拥有能力
993	it has the power to respond	它有反应能力
994	to aggression	侵略
995	but it is also a responsible military	但它也是一个负责的军队
996	that is not acting	不是行动
997	the way Modi is acting	莫迪的行为方式
998	to go into other countries unprovoked.	毫无理由地进入其他国家。
999	It responded responsibly	它负责地作出反应
1000	and this is again	这又来了
1001	then followed by	接下来是
1002	the international outburst.	国际爆发。
1003	If you look into human rights watch	如果你调查人权观察
1004	for instance clearly states	例如,明确规定
1005	the Modi policies violate	莫迪政策违反了
1006	international human rights law	国际人权法
1007	his speeches inside discriminations	他的演讲在歧视内部
1008	BJP runs state bulldoze	BJP执行州级推土机
1009	Muslim homes and collective punishment	穆斯林住宅和集体惩罚
1010	violence against Muslims	对穆斯林的暴力
1011	and Christian continues	克里斯蒂安继续
1012	even outside elections	甚至在选举之外
1013	and that Indian minorities	印度少数民族
1014	live under condition of systematic	生活状况
1015	fair and structural discrimination.	公平和结构性歧视。
1016	Now this internal structure	现在这个内部结构
1017	is what has influenced	已经影响了
1018	Modi's policies toward Pakistan	莫迪对巴基斯坦的政策
1019	through and through	通过和通过
1020	in the form of first attacking	第一次攻击的形式
1021	directly through unprovoked aggression	直接通过无端侵略
1022	in the form of proxy wars	以代理战争的形式
1023	in Balochistan	俾路支语
1024	in the form of supporting	支助形式
1025	the Taliban Pakistan	安全理事会
1026	which to this day	到今天为止
1027	are operating in Pakistan.	正在巴基斯坦运作。
1028	Never has Pakistan ever responded	巴基斯坦从来没有回应过
1029	that every time there is attack	每次攻击时
1030	in Balochistan in Lahore	拉合尔俾路支省
1031	or has happened last week	或上个星期发生的
1032	in Islamabad	伊斯兰堡
1033	we do not come and be like	我们不会来和像
1034	hey we have jets	嘿,我们有飞机
1035	and we're going to shoot straight into India.	我们要直射印度
1036	We are a responsible sovereign state	我们是负责任的主权国家
1037	as a responsible sovereign state	作为负责任的主权国家
1038	with the nuclear power.	与核能。
1039	We have the ability	我们有能力
1040	but we have exercise resistance	但我们有抵抗
1041	but in more these ways	但更是这样
1042	this is not the case.	事实并非如此。
1043	I have my protected time.	我有我受保护的时间。
1044	That is not situations	这不是情况
1045	in Modi's India.	在莫迪的印度。
1046	He needs a reason.	他需要一个理由。
1047	He needs every time a reason	他每次需要一个理由
1048	to go for Pakistan	前往巴基斯坦
1049	to attack Pakistan.	进攻巴基斯坦
1050	So when you look all of this	所以当你看着这一切
1051	into full context	一、全面讨论
1052	this is nothing short of populism	这不过是民粹主义而已
1053	and this is nothing short	这没什么
1054	of a populist policy	民粹主义政策
1055	wrapped under strategic security.	在战略安全之下
1056	But with that being said	但是说到这里
1057	Pakistan is a responsible state	巴基斯坦是一个负责任的国家
1058	is always open to dialogue diplomacy.	总是对对话外交持开放态度。
1059	It believes in peace	它相信和平
1060	because as we are in this belt	因为我们在这条腰带
1061	both Pakistan and India	巴基斯坦和印度
1062	share common culture	共享共同文化
1063	and common language.	和通用语言。
1064	The irony is that abroad	讽刺的是国外
1065	we are best friends	我们是最好的朋友
1066	but at home	不过在家里
1067	we are the biggest enemies.	我们是最大的敌人。
1068	If it is possible over here	如果有可能的话
1069	when dialogue is possible here	当对话框有可能在此时
1070	when friendship is possible here	当友谊可以在这里
1071	why can't it be there?	为什么它不能在那里?
1072	This is because we have let	因为我们让
1073	the government decide	政府决定
1074	the faith of the citizens of India	印度公民的信仰
1075	and maybe for somewhere	也许为了某个地方
1076	in Pakistan as well.	在巴基斯坦也是如此。
1077	So I hope I'll put it	所以,我希望我会把它
1078	on a positive note	在积极的方面
1079	that the friendships	友谊
1080	that are built here	在这里建造的
1081	across these opposite sides	横跨这些对面
1082	can one day flourish	终有一天会繁荣起来
1083	into the same peace	实现同样的和平
1084	that hopefully we can see	希望我们能看到
1085	both across the borders	都跨越国界
1086	for Pakistan and India.	巴基斯坦和印度。
1087	With that I urge you	我劝你
1088	to propose the motion.	提出动议。
1089	Thank you.	谢谢
1090	Thank you for your speech.	谢谢你的演讲
1091	I also like to just remind	我还想提醒一下
1092	members of the House	众议院议员
1093	of the forms of the House.	以房屋的形式。
1094	If you have a point of information	如果你有一点信息
1095	you have to stand up	你必须站起来
1096	say point of information	说点信息
1097	then the Speaker can either accept	然后议长可以接受
1098	or reject	拒绝
1099	but you have to stand up	但你必须站起来
1100	and say point of information	并说点信息
1101	otherwise they don't have	否则,他们没有
1102	otherwise it's not a point of information	否则,这不是一个点信息
1103	and points of information	和信息点
1104	should just be that	应该只是
1105	points of information	资料要点
1106	not a chance to have a debate	没有机会进行辩论
1107	with the Speaker.	与议长。
1108	Thank you.	谢谢
1109	I now call upon	我现在请
1110	another very dear friend of mine	我另一个非常亲爱的朋友
1111	Divachan Banerjee	迪瓦昌·巴纳吉
1112	to continue the case	继续审理此案
1113	for side opposition.	对方反对。
1114	Thank you.	谢谢
1115	Mr. President,	主席先生,
1116	honorable members of the House	尊敬的众议员
1117	thank you for sticking around.	谢谢你留下来
1118	My colleague Viran	我的同事维兰
1119	spoke to you with fire.	以火势对你说话。
1120	He was from Mumbai.	他来自孟买。
1121	He had seen the multiple terrorist attacks	他目睹了多次恐怖袭击
1122	affect his city over the years.	影响他的城市多年。
1123	I speak to you from a bit of distance.	我从远处跟你说话
1124	I'm a Calcutta boy.	我是一个加尔各答男孩。
1125	We haven't seen major attacks	我们没有看到重大攻击
1126	in some decades	数十年来
1127	but we were one of the sites	但我们是其中之一
1128	of the greatest forced migrations in history	历史上最大规模的强迫移徙
1129	since the Holocaust and the partition.	自大屠杀和分治以来
1130	And that was because of some activities	那是因为一些活动
1131	Pakistan was up to	巴基斯坦当时
1132	in the late 60s and early 70s.	60年代后期和70年代前期。
1133	The part of the city I grew up in	我在城市里长大的部分
1134	was a refugee colony	曾经是难民聚居区
1135	but suddenly when Pakistan was no longer	但突然,当巴基斯坦不再是
1136	on the eastern half of our border	我们边界的东半部
1137	terrorist attacks seem to have stopped.	恐怖袭击似乎已经停止。
1138	Ladies and gentlemen	女士们,先生们
1139	our Pakistan policy	我们的巴基斯坦政策
1140	is driven by the concerns of our voter	我们的选民所关心的
1141	not the machinations of unelected leaders.	而不是未当选领导人的诡计。
1142	It is democratically accountable	民主负责
1143	security policy	安全政策
1144	not populism in disguise.	不是伪装的民粹主义。
1145	I'm going to make three claims in this debate.	我将在这场辩论中提出三项主张.
1146	First, the proposition has a very heavy burden	首先,这个提议负担非常沉重
1147	that it has not met.	它没有遇到。
1148	They've not even told you	他们甚至没有告诉你
1149	what populist security policy is supposed to be	民粹主义的安全政策是什么
1150	let alone that India pursues it.	更别说是印度追求了
1151	We'll try and clarify the definition.	我们将尝试澄清定义。
1152	Second, unfortunately they made this a debate	第二,不幸的是,他们把这场辩论
1153	about democracy within the country.	关于国内的民主。
1154	I wish they didn't do that.	我希望他们没有这样做。
1155	India remains a rare robust democracy	印度仍然是一个罕见的强大民主国家
1156	in which voters punish governments	选民惩罚政府
1157	if they fail on policy issues and injustice.	如果它们在政策问题和不公正方面失败。
1158	What you're seeing is democratic accountability	你看到的是民主问责制
1159	not demagoguery.	不是令人发指。
1160	We'll get to the situation in Pakistan during rebuttals.	在反驳时我们会了解巴基斯坦的局势.
1161	Third, even if we generously assume	第三,即使我们慷慨地假设
1162	and it is true that Pakistan is also a victim of terror	巴基斯坦确实也是恐怖的受害者
1163	it has been unable or unwilling	无法或不愿意
1164	to stop non-state actors operating from its soil.	阻止非国家行为者在自己的土地上活动。
1165	India's measured response	印度的计量反应
1166	is exactly what international law expects	这正是国际法所期望的
1167	and if anyone has wrapped populism in security rhetoric	如果有人把民粹主义包裹在安全言论中
1168	it is not New Delhi	这不是新德里
1169	it is Islamabad	是伊斯兰堡
1170	and the people of Pakistan	里亚德·曼苏尔(签名)
1171	have paid a heavy price for it.	已经为此付出了沉重的代价。
1172	The burden they have to meet, ladies and gentlemen	他们必须面对的重担女士们先生们
1173	the motion doesn't say India's policy is harsh or flawed	动议没有说印度的政策是苛刻或有缺陷的
1174	it says it is a con.	上面说这是个骗局
1175	For that to be true	事实如此
1176	the government needs to prove four things.	政府需要证明四件事
1177	One, India's claims of harm	一、印度关于损害的主张
1178	are invented or wildly exaggerated	被发明或疯狂夸大
1179	like populists claim barbarians are at the gate in Europe	就像民粹主义者宣称野蛮人在欧洲的大门
1180	when it comes to migration.	在移民问题上。
1181	We have shown you time and again	我们一次又一次地给你看
1182	with so many examples	这么多例子
1183	that India is a genuine victim of terrorist attacks.	印度是恐怖袭击的真正受害者。
1184	Second, we have to prove that India	第二,我们必须证明印度
1185	bypasses institutions.	绕过机构。
1186	Populist policy is marked by leaders going around courts	民粹主义政策的特点是领导者绕过法庭
1187	parliaments, professional military	议会、专业军事
1188	governing by slogan.	以口号治理。
1189	None of this happens in India	这一切在印度都没有发生
1190	or what happens a lot in the proposition bench	或者在提议席上发生很多事
1191	the military going ahead and capturing parliament.	军队继续前进并夺取议会。
1192	That doesn't happen in India either.	印度也不发生这种情况。
1193	Third, leader-centric volatility.	第三,以领导人为中心的波动。
1194	Our position on security policy	我们对于安全政策的立场
1195	essentially hasn't changed with leaders.	基本上没有改变领导人。
1196	One thing you expect when leaders change	当领导人改变时,你会想到一件事
1197	there is a pendulum	有个笔鼓
1198	there is no such pendulum or yo-yo of Indian security policy.	印度安全政策没有这样的问题。
1199	It remains as robust and steadfast as ever.	它一如既往地坚韧不拔。
1200	Finally, irrational escalation	最后,非理性的升级
1201	which is what they are pointing to.	那是他们所要达到的。
1202	But we'll show you that actually whatever we have done	但我们会告诉你,实际上我们做了什么
1203	has been a careful and stepwise escalation	是一个谨慎和逐步的升级
1204	measured on the ladder.	在梯子上测量。
1205	So ask yourself, have they shown	你问问你自己,他们有没有出现
1206	that the attacks from Pakistani soil	巴基斯坦本土发动的袭击
1207	the 93 Bombay blasts, the parliament attack	93起孟买爆炸案、议会袭击
1208	the Mumbai attack, Uri Pulwama	乌里·普尔瓦马
1209	were fabricated?	是捏造的吗?
1210	Have they told you why Usama bin Laden	他们有没有告诉你为什么乌萨马·本·拉登
1211	was found in a luxury compound 800 meters	被发现在800米高的豪华住宅区
1212	from the National Military Academy?	从国家军事学院?
1213	Have they shown to you that the Indian ministers	他们有没有告诉你,印度的部长
1214	Indian prime minister defying their generals	印度总理藐视他们的将军
1215	do not listen to their civil service	不听他们的公务
1216	fire their judges, change courts?	解雇他们的法官,改变法庭?
1217	I don't think none of this	我觉得没有
1218	they can't show you any of this	他们不能给你看这些
1219	because this stuff doesn't happen in India ladies and gentlemen.	因为印度的女士们先生们不会发生这种事
1220	If this is populism	如果这是民粹主义
1221	it is doing an amazingly good job of looking not like it.	它做一个惊人的好工作看起来像它。
1222	Look instead what India has actually done.	看看印度到底做了什么。
1223	It is not a story of wild swings	这不是野性秋千的故事
1224	it is actually a stepwise ladder.	它其实是一个阶梯。
1225	For years we have sent dossiers and threats	多年来,我们一直发送档案和威胁
1226	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}事实上是给他们信用
1227	sometimes the threats have worked.	有时威胁已经奏效。
1228	After the 2001 parliamentary attack	2001年国会袭击后
1229	when Vajpayee put troops at the border and called Musharraf	当瓦杰帕伊在边境部署部队并给穆沙拉夫打电话
1230	he managed, he actually he made JEM	他做到了,他实际上他使正义运动
1231	and an LAT band organizations in Pakistan.	以及巴基斯坦的LAT乐队组织.
1232	It's just that Pakistan has gone	只是巴基斯坦已经走了
1233	from one leadership disaster to the other	从一个领导到另一个领导
1234	to the extent where these kinds of actions are no longer seen.	以至于人们不再看到这种行动。
1235	But we escalated step by step	但我们一步一步升级
1236	in Uri we did limited cross LOC strikes	在乌里,我们做了有限的交叉现场指挥打击
1237	in Balakot we went up a notch	在巴拉科特,我们上去了
1238	and attacked camps in occupied Kashmir	并袭击被占领的克什米尔的难民营
1239	and then finally at the end	终于到了最后
1240	it's only Pulwama that made us target mainland Pakistan.	只有普尔瓦马把我们作为目标
1241	But remember we never targeted civilian infrastructure	但记得我们从来没有攻击民用基础设施
1242	no dams, no bridges, no hospitals, no schools	没有水坝,没有桥梁,没有医院,没有学校
1243	were deliberately targeted.	被蓄意攻击
1244	In fact as soon as the targets were made	事实上,一旦目标被设定
1245	India tried to de-escalate.	印度试图缓和局势。
1246	They said that this is a limited goal of our interaction	他们说这是我们互动的有限目标
1247	we have achieved what we wanted to.	我们实现了我们想要的。
1248	This is not a state trying to get applause	这不是一个想要掌声的国家
1249	it's the state climbing reluctantly	这是州攀登不情愿
1250	essentially to manage voter pressure.	主要是管理选民的压力。
1251	This is something the side opposition doesn't understand	这是反对派不明白的
1252	because they've not seen a democracy ladies and gentlemen.	因为他们没见过一个民主的女士们先生们
1253	Given the political history of our neighbors	鉴于我们邻居的政治历史
1254	on the proposition bench it is understandable.	在提议席上,这是可以理解的。
1255	They make a lot of claims about how India	他们提出很多关于印度的主张
1256	there are people in India who exclude minorities	印度有人排斥少数民族
1257	who want to make India Hindu Rashtra.	他们想让印度印度人拉什特拉
1258	There are extreme views within the right in India	印度右派内部有极端观点
1259	which argue which have made life for minorities worse.	他们的争论使少数群体的生活更加恶化。
1260	But by all means all minorities in India	但是印度的所有少数民族
1261	have a much better life than they do in Pakistan.	生活比他们在巴基斯坦好得多。
1262	Ladies and gentlemen I asked the question	女士们先生们我问了这个问题
1263	if it was possible for a head of state in Pakistan to be Muslim.	如果巴基斯坦的国家元首是穆斯林的话
1264	The answer is false.	答无实.
1265	India has had two heads of state who've been Muslim.	印度有两位是穆斯林的国家元首.
1266	Also the BJP the party they claim to Hitler, Nazi, Netanyahu	还有他们向希特勒、纳粹、内塔尼亚胡声称的BJP
1267	any other lazy analogy that they could throw at you	任何其它懒惰的类比他们可以扔给你
1268	that actually elected a Muslim to be the head of state in India.	他实际上选举了一个穆斯林成为印度的国家元首。
1269	But that clearly is something that didn't make it	但显然,这是没有做到的
1270	to their modest research.	他们的微薄研究。
1271	In comparative context India's democracy is unusually robust.	相对而言,印度的民主异常强大。
1272	We've never had a military coup and not just in South Asia	我们从来没有有过军事政变不只是在南亚
1273	where we are ranked leaders but across the post-colonial context	在后殖民时期,我们是领袖
1274	there are very few examples which have had a sustained democracy	拥有持续民主制度的例子很少。
1275	all the way since 1947.	从1947年起一直这样
1276	We have independent courts that strike down the government	我们有独立的法院推翻政府
1277	including when they try to change how judges are appointed	包括当法官试图改变法官的任命方式时
1278	or structures of the court.	或法院的结构。
1279	I just wish sometimes that Pakistan had something like that.	我只是希望巴基斯坦有时有类似的东西。
1280	We have genuine federalism ladies and gentlemen.	我们有真正的联邦制女士们先生们
1281	We had linguistic states created by protest and negotiation	我们通过抗议和谈判创造了语言状态
1282	a process that goes on.	一个继续的过程。
1283	I wish there was some learnings taken on that	我希望我学到了一些东西
1284	that would create more stability in Pakistan.	这会给巴基斯坦带来更大的稳定。
1285	The argument is not that India is perfect.	争论并不是说印度是完美的。
1286	I would be the first person to admit	我会是第一个承认
1287	that there are a lot of flaws in our democracy.	我们的民主有许多缺陷。
1288	The question is we have the checks and balances	问题是,我们有制衡
1289	systems of accountability to fix it within ourselves.	问责制在自己内部加以纠正。
1290	We have a democracy intention.	我们有一个民主的意图。
1291	They kept mentioning that India has election wherever	他们不断提到印度在任何地方都有选举
1292	there is a terrorist attack.	发生了恐怖袭击。
1293	But India ladies and gentlemen has 28 states.	但印度的女士们先生们有28个州
1294	If every year four states in India are having an election	如果印度每年有四个邦举行选举
1295	if you claim that there was an election in 2019 and 2021	如果你声称2019年和2021年有选举
1296	there is a terrorist attack every other year	每隔一年就会发生恐怖袭击
1297	there are multiple elections.	有多次选举。
1298	We can't help it but it's clearly not done for electoral reasons.	我们无能为力,但显然由于选举原因没有做到这一点.
1299	And India's pride is the fact that it that it's poor	印度的骄傲是它贫穷
1300	it is its minorities have voted and participated	它的少数派投票和参加
1301	in the electoral process.	在选举过程中。
1302	We have one of the most extensive affirmative action policies	我们有一个最广泛的平权行动政策
1303	in the world.	在这个世界。
1304	We have a reasonably strong welfare regime not taken.	我们有一个相当强大的福利制度,没有被采纳。
1305	Policies are electoral compromises made through negotiation	政策是通过谈判作出的选举妥协
1306	not dictated by generals.	而不是将军们命令的
1307	No leader however strong can ignore the electorate in India.	任何领导人,无论多么强大,都不能无视印度的选民。
1308	In 2019 with the largest mandate that Prime Minister Modi had	2019年以莫迪总理的最大授权
1309	he couldn't push through his preferred	他无法通过他的偏好
1310	and flagship agricultural reforms.	和旗舰农业改革。
1311	The farmers said no.	农民说不行。
1312	In India their vote matters and that was that.	在印度,他们的投票很重要,就是这样。
1313	Now add to this the collective memory that ordinary voters	加上普通选民的集体记忆
1314	have had Pakistan had about Pakistan.	曾经让巴基斯坦对巴基斯坦感到恐惧
1315	We mentioned the Mumbai train bombings.	我们提到孟买火车爆炸案。
1316	They remember 26-11 they remembered that Pakistani national	他们记得26 -11 他们记得巴基斯坦国民
1317	was captured alive on television.	在电视上被活捉了
1318	They heard recordings of their handlers.	他们听到处理者的录音
1319	They saw the U.S. convict two co-conspirators	他们看见了两名共犯
1320	and send them to India.	把他们送到印度
1321	They saw Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad	他们在阿博塔巴德看到乌萨马·本·拉丹
1322	a short walk from Pakistan's military academy.	从巴基斯坦军事学院走一小步
1323	他们从Instagram上看Pulwama的高定义
1324	还有TikTok。
1325	It is a high burden to ask a society psychology	问一个社会心理学是沉重的负担
1326	that if they see beheadings of Daniel Pearl	如果他们看见丹尼尔·珀尔被斩首
1327	if they see Pulwama that that wouldn't leave behind a mental scar.	如果他们看到Pulwama 就不会留下精神创伤
1328	But policy should not be dictated by negative emotions.	但政策不应由消极情绪来决定。
1329	That's what populism would be	这就是民粹主义
1330	and that's what the Indian response hasn't been.	而印度的反应却并非如此。
1331	If you read it on Twitter	如果你在推特上读到
1332	you will constantly hear like people without foresight	你将像人一样无远见地听
1333	arguing for things like an invasion of Pakistan	为入侵巴基斯坦而争吵
1334	removing it from the map.	从地图上删除它。
1335	These are terrible ideas	这些是可怕的想法
1336	and these are not ideas that the Indian nation states shares.	这些不是印度民族国家共同的想法。
1337	But what the Indian nation cannot do either	但印度国家也做不到
1338	is completely repress any views	完全压制任何视图
1339	which express this frustration.	表达这种挫折感。
1340	A democratic polity, they have to carefully	一个民主国家,他们必须小心
1341	and measurably create a response	并产生一个显著的反应
1342	which deters from such action.	它阻止了这种行为。
1343	So to sum up, gentlemen, in Pakistan	总之,先生们,在巴基斯坦
1344	the establishment acquires domestic legitimacy	企业获得国内合法性;
1345	through rhetoric about India.	透过有关印度的言论。
1346	In India, the governments lose legitimacy	在印度,政府失去了合法性
1347	if they can't provide security.	如果他们不能提供保安。
1348	Finally, the third argument.	最后,第三个论点。
1349	Under Article 51 of the UN Charter	根据《联合国宪章》第五十一条
1350	states have a right to self-defense.	各州有权自卫。
1351	However, if it's a non-state actor attacking	但是,如果这是一个非国家行为者攻击
1352	it creates a problem.	这造成了问题。
1353	But then response is allowed	但是,然后允许回应
1354	if the state is unable or unwilling to stop it	如果国家无法或不愿阻止
1355	to prevent its territory from being used	防止其领土被利用
1356	as a site of attacks.	作为攻击地点。
1357	This is what justified the US attack in Abbottabad.	这就是美国袭击阿博塔巴德的理由。
1358	This is what UK used as a justification	英国以此为理由
1359	to attack ISIS in Syria.	在叙利亚攻击伊斯兰国
1360	India's position on Pakistan is exactly this.	印度对巴基斯坦的立场正是如此。
1361	We accept more generously than our own hawks	我们比自己的鹰更慷慨
1362	that Pakistan itself is a victim of terror	巴基斯坦本身是恐怖主义的受害者
1363	including the mother of one of the speakers	包括其中一位发言者的母亲
1364	who was supposed to come here.	本来应该来这里的
1365	We accept that the state does not control	我们同意国家不能控制
1366	every militant group.	每个激进团体。
1367	But when decade after decade	但当十年又十年
1368	groups based on Pakistani soil	以巴基斯坦土地为基础的群体
1369	attack Indian citizens	袭击印度公民
1370	and Pakistan cannot dismantle them	和巴基斯坦不能拆除它们
1371	India is entitled to act in self-defense.	印度有权自卫。
1372	But what does India do?	但是印度会做什么?
1373	It targets non-state actors.	它针对非国家行为者。
1374	It accompanies strikes	它伴着打击
1375	with explicit calls for de-escalation.	明确要求降级。
1376	It refrains from hitting economic infrastructure	它避免打击经济基础设施
1377	or symbols of national importance.	或具有国家重要性的标志。
1378	Pakistan by contrast	相比之下,巴基斯坦
1379	has no non-state actors in India to strike.	印度没有非国家行为者可以打击。
1380	So when it retaliates	当它报复的时候,
1381	it has to shell villages.	它必须轰炸村庄。
1382	We don't keep snakes in our backyard	我们后院里没有蛇
1383	for strategic use	用于战略用途
1384	and then complain when they bite us or our neighbors.	然后抱怨当他们咬我们或我们的邻居。
1385	We don't do the dirty work	我们不做肮脏的工作
1386	as the defense minister said	正如国防部长所说
1387	of a superpower via a militant proxy.	超级大国通过军事代理。
1388	Our security policy is meant	我们的安保政策就是
1389	to serve the Indian citizen	为印度公民服务
1390	not to rent out violence to a foreign policy.	而不是将暴力出租给外交政策。
1391	Who is really wrapping policy	谁是真正的包装政策
1392	in a security clothing?	穿着安全服?
1393	Let me end with what we began.	让我以我们开始的结束。
1394	This house believes	这房子相信
1395	India's security strategy to Pakistan	印度对巴基斯坦的安全战略
1396	is populist strategy sold as security policy.	是民粹主义的策略作为安全政策出售。
1397	Let us look across the border for a moment.	让我们看一下边界
1398	Which state has seen repeated military coup	哪个州屡次发生军事政变
1399	justified in the name of national security?	以国家安全的名义证明是正当的?
1400	Which establishment has built its entire identity	哪个机构建立了整个身份
1401	around an external Indian threat	围绕印度外部的威胁
1402	to the point where rapprochement	直至和解
1403	becomes risky for those in power?	对那些掌权者来说,这有风险吗?
1404	Which state's army has real estate,	哪个州的军队有房地产
1405	banking, manufacturing canals	银行、制造运河
1406	and frozen kebab and also Bitcoin?	还有冰冻的kebab和比特币?
1407	I don't say this to sneer at Pakistanis.	我这样说不是在嘲笑巴基斯坦人
1408	Many of them are my friends.	其中许多是我的朋友。
1409	They are tired of the cycle too.	他们也厌倦了循环。
1410	They deserve democratic governance	他们应该得到民主治理
1411	that responds to the needs of the people.	这符合人民的需要。
1412	They deserve that their elected leaders	他们应该得到他们当选的领导人
1413	are released from jail.	从监狱释放。
1414	But if you care,	但如果你在乎的话
1415	it is in fact the opposite that India provides.	事实上,印度提供的恰恰相反。
1416	Security policy sold and criticized	出售和批评的安全政策
1417	in the honest marketplace of democracy.	在诚实的民主市场。
1418	Mr. President, members of the house,	总统先生,议员们,
1419	for all of these reasons,	出于所有这些原因,
1420	I urge you to reject this motion.	我敦促你拒绝这个动议。
1421	Not because India is flawless,	不是因为印度无瑕疵
1422	not because Pakistan is evil,	不是因为巴基斯坦是邪恶的,
1423	but because its policy is not populism disguised.	但因为它的政策不是伪装的民粹主义。
1424	It is trauma processed.	治疗了创伤
1425	It is international law applied	适用国际法
1426	and it is democracy in motion.	这是民主在运行。
1427	We do not sell this war to our people.	我们不把这场战争卖给我们的人民。
1428	Our people demand we end the terror.	我们的人民要求我们结束恐怖。
1429	I beg you to oppose the motion.	我恳求你反对动议
1430	We're now going to be taking just two floor speeches.	我们现在只做两场演讲。
1431	So I look for a speaker in proposition of the motion	所以我找一个发言人来提议动议
1432	Um, I recognize them the member in the third row there.	嗯,我认出他们成员在第三排那里。
1433	Dear mr. Speaker	亲爱的先生发言者
1434	I believe it is not just India's security policy	我相信这不仅仅是印度的安全政策
1435	But Pakistan's and China's own security policy the populist rhetorics of its nationalist	但巴基斯坦和中国的安全政策是民族主义的民粹主义言论
1436	Mr. Speaker, I'm not a nationalist because I believe fundamentally that countries don't exist people do	议长先生,我不是民族主义者因为我认为国家不存在
1437	The idea of an amorphous set of loosely bound identities shared among some people	某些人共享的一套不固定的松散身份的想法
1438	Carried by flags stamped on passports and drawn on a maps is never as real as people themselves a	挂在护照上的旗帜和在地图上画的旗帜从未像人们自己那样真实
1439	Country doesn't exist	国家不存在
1440	What exists are the people who find a sense of belonging with one another?	发现彼此归属感的人是什么?
1441	The land on which they live and how they decide to live together and the people of India and Pakistan have lived together	他们居住的土地,他们决定如何共同生活,印度和巴基斯坦人民共同生活
1442	for millennium for millennia	千年计划
1443	Hindus Muslim Sikhs Jain Buddhists the notion of countries is what the modern political theorist Benedict Anderson called imagined communities	国家的概念是现代政治理论家本尼迪克特·安德森所说的想象中的社区
1444	Imagined because the members of even the smallest nation would never know most of their fellow members never meet them	想象中,即使最小国家的成员也永远不会知道他们的大多数同伴从来没有见过他们
1445	hear of them yet in the mind of each other lives the image of their communion and	听到他们的声音却在彼此的脑海中活在他们的圣餐中
1446	Before the British man came and split the peninsula with his pen India and Pakistan are each other's companion	英国人来之前用他的笔分了半岛印度和巴基斯坦是对方的同伴
1447	We have heard enough of the pain that two sides of this house have endured because of the British man's border	我们听够了这座房子的两边因为英国人的边界而承受的痛苦
1448	I urge you I urge you don't let the British man's pen be our forever curse and don't let each other's misery be your own	我敦促你,我敦促你不要让英国人的笔永远成为我们的诅咒也不要让彼此的痛苦成为你自己的
1449	Politicians rhetorics.	政治家辞典.
1450	Thank you very much.	谢谢
1451	I thank the member for their speech	我感谢该成员的发言。
1452	I now look for a speaker in opposition of the motion.	我现在找一位反对该动议的发言者。
1453	I recognize the member in the second row there	我认出那边第二排的成员
1454	So thank you so much	所以,谢谢你这么多
1455	so firstly, you know	所以,首先,你知道,
1456	Fellow people on that side of the motion they has it something and	伙伴们在运动的那一面他们得到了它的东西,
1457	Some of them are actually like, you know, that's like factual ideas.	其中一些其实就像,你知道, 这就像事实的想法。
1458	I had to clear that mess	我得把烂摊子清理干净
1459	So firstly sir said that there has been a proper attempt to change demography of Kashmir	首先,先生说,有人试图改变克什米尔的人口结构
1460	Let me put the streets fact in front of you Kashmir	让我把街道的事实摆在你们克什米尔面前
1461	Demographic population in 96.41 percent Islam 2.45 percent Hinduism 0.81 percent Sikhs	伊斯兰教人口96.41% 印度教人口2.45% 锡克教人口0.81%
1462	So that's the real-time	所以这是实时的
1463	demography of Kashmir	克什米尔人口统计
1464	97% and you're saying that it's actually a change of demographics	97%,你说这实际上是人口结构的变化
1465	if you know history then I think that you should know about the mass exodus of Kashmiri pundits and that was one of the	如果你知道历史,那么我想你应该知道克什米尔的学者大规模流亡,这是其中之一
1466	biggest sort of	最伟大的类型
1467	Exodus which happened in which actually changed democracy and the rivers of Vitastha and Chandrabhag are still evident to it a culture	而维塔萨河和钱德拉巴格河的河水至今仍是一个文化
1468	Which started from Raj Tarangani of Kalhan and which had thousands of years of history	从卡尔汉的拉杰·塔兰加尼开始有着几千年的历史
1469	It got wiped out in a single night and it happened due to people of extremist beliefs who were funded	它在一夜之间就被消灭了它的发生是由于那些有极端主义信仰的人得到了资助
1470	Who were supported by people sitting on that side of the border?	在边境那边坐着的人支持谁?
1471	Now, this is what you have missed.	这就是你错过的
1472	Secondly, you have said that one is 126 billion dollars of worth of you know	第二,你说一个是1 1260亿美元,你知道
1473	Amore is lost due to Pakistan, but I think you should know	阿摩尔输了巴基斯坦,但我想你应该知道
1474	You reap what you sow.	你种什么就收获什么
1475	So I think you should remember that	我想你应该记得
1476	thirdly	第三届
1477	My dear our very own president he raised a lot of sort of concern about the democracy in the state that's happening in India	我亲爱的总统他对印度的民主提出了很多关注
1478	That's perfectly all right and they're saying that you know, Modi's India is doing that.	这完全没关系, 他们说,你知道, 莫迪的印度正在这样做。
1479	They're giving their affairs and they're heading on Pakistan	他们把事情交给巴基斯坦
1480	Sorry, but Indira Gandhi did that too	抱歉,但英迪拉甘地也这么做了
1481	Lal Bahadur Shastri did that too	拉尔·巴哈杜尔·沙斯特里也是这样
1482	And especially Mr Israr Khan Kakarji was talking about the military might of Pakistan	尤其是伊斯拉尔·汗·卡卡吉先生谈到巴基斯坦的军事实力
1483	I think I think you forgot where was that in 1971 when 93 000 when how many 93 000 you I hope that's a big number	我想你忘了1971年的 93000 当时你有多少93000 我希望这是个大数字
1484	When 93 000 soldiers they surrendered that's your military might	当九万三千名士兵投降时,这是你的军力
1485	And it's the country of Pakistan	这是巴基斯坦的国家
1486	Which is the only country where generals lose and get more medals because it is evident that Pakistan's policy towards India	因为巴基斯坦对印度的政策很明显,
1487	Is so centralized in its military that their existence is because they show themselves to be in a constant	如此集中的军队以至于他们的存在因为他们显示自己在不断
1488	State of war in in constant in a constant state of attack and that has made them	战争状态在不断的进攻状态中持续,因此,
1489	That has made them like one of the richest people.	这使得他们成为最富有的人之一。
1490	Yeah, like fogy foundation owns some six billion dollars worth of things and	是啊,像雾中基金会拥有约60亿美元价值的东西和
1491	Pakistan is run by feudalist nepotistic people who don't care who don't care about what the actual	巴基斯坦是由封建主义的裙带关系人管理他们不在乎什么
1492	Jamuri it can do in Pakistan else else.	贾穆里在别处也可以做
1493	你应该记得Faiz Amhmed faiz说过的话
1494	You should remember what habib jalib said and then work on that rather than just helping and you know	你应该记得Habib jalib说过的话然后做这个工作而不是只是帮忙你知道的
1495	Being psychophantic to the military this woman just please this woman her father	军事界的疯子这个女人只是取悦她的父亲
1496	Her father was brutally killed and assassinated by a military dictator by military dictator zia ul haq and then her son	她的父亲被军事独裁者 Zia ul haq 杀害被军事独裁者暗杀然后她的儿子
1497	Her son who came to the oxford union they are in an open agreement with the military	她的儿子来到牛福德工会他们与军方达成公开协议
1498	This is not what idealist this is not what anything sort of means.	这不是理想主义者也不是什么意义
1499	It's it's just okay.	没关系的
1500	Yeah	对
1501	Thank you, but I hope you also give that and yeah, can I	谢谢,但我希望你也给是的,我可以
1502	I hope you didn't mind.	我希望你不会介意
1503	That was just my emotions.	这只是我的情绪。
1504	Yeah, also i'm not a big nationalist chauvinist, but thank you so much	是啊,我也不是一个伟大的民族主义沙文主义者, 但是非常感谢你。
1505	我的名字是Afia bancal。。
1506	I thank the members for the speech.	我感谢各位成员的发言。
1507	That's it for the floor speeches.	讲稿就是这样的
1508	I now look to	我现在期待
1509	Ahmed nawaz ex-president lady margaret hall to close the case for side proposition	艾哈迈德·纳瓦兹前总统夫人玛格丽特大厅结束此案提出附带建议
1510	first of all	首先是
1511	I would like to start by thanking.	我首先要感谢大家。
1512	Mr. President musa	总统穆萨先生
1513	and also	和项目
1514	Forgiving me the speech first of all, but also to say how happy I am to be speaking alongside both	首先,请原谅我的演讲, 但也让我说,我是多么高兴能同时发言
1515	musa and israr two very good friends of mine two ex-presidents of foxford union and two very competent	穆萨和伊泽尔我的两个好朋友两个前福克斯福德工会主席两个非常胜任
1516	Two very competent hard-working and somewhat charming people	两个非常能干勤奋和迷人的人
1517	It is truly an honor	真是荣幸
1518	To stand in this chamber	站在这个会议厅里
1519	for the fourth time speaking on this podium	第四次在这个讲台上发言
1520	a place where ideas	一个有想法的地方
1521	Have challenged empires	挑战帝国
1522	Where words have carried weight equal to armies?	与军队同等重的言语在哪里?
1523	and where history	以及历史
1524	Has often begun with the speech	经常从演讲开始
1525	But tonight is historic	但今晚是历史性的
1526	for another reason	因为另一个原因
1527	Because for the first time in the union's history	因为工会历史上第一次
1528	Three pakistani presidents of the oxford union are speaking on the same side of the debate	牛福德工会的三位主席正在辩论的同一面发言
1529	And a fourth one looking at us proudly from the wall over there	还有第四只从那边的墙上光顾着我们
1530	Now they tell us	现在他们告诉我们
1531	Sometimes that pakistan is a failed state	有时候,帕基斯坦是一个失败的状态
1532	Well, if this is failure, then may failure keep producing more oxford union presidents	那么,如果这是失败, 那么失败继续生产更多的牛福德工会主席
1533	And just to say we're not here as exceptions from pakistan	只是想说我们不是作为帕基斯坦的例外而来的
1534	But we're here as examples of pakistan of a pakistan that learns debates	但是我们在这里是一个学习辩论的巴基斯坦人的例子
1535	Leads and insists on being seen in full color and caricature	铅和坚持要被看满色和漫画
1536	But mr president	但是总统先生
1537	This debate is far bigger than national pride	这场辩论比民族自豪大得多
1538	Because it touches something deeper	因为它触摸到更深的东西
1539	something deeper than flags	比旗帜更深的东西
1540	and borders	和边界
1541	It touches the machinery that shapes how nations imagine themselves and how they imagine each other	它触及决定国家如何想象自己和彼此想象的机制。
1542	And that brings me to the motion tonight	这让我今晚参加动议
1543	The motion tonight ladies and gentlemen does not simply ask whether there are security challenges	女士们先生们今晚的动议并不只是问是否有安全挑战
1544	It asks something far more uncomfortable	它问一些更不舒服的事
1545	Is pakistan truly treated as a security reason?	帕基斯坦真的被当作安全理由吗?
1546	Or as a political asset	或者作为政治资产
1547	Is pakistan a neighbor or has it been turned into a narrative?	帕基斯坦是邻居还是变成了叙事?
1548	Tonight i'm not here to repeat the familiar debates of the past	今晚我不是来重复过去熟悉的辩论的
1549	I want to show to you all here how populism has turned pakistan	我想向大家展示民粹主义是如何变成巴基斯坦人的
1550	Not into just into an enemy but into a political instrument	不只是成为敌人,而是政治工具
1551	I'll give three arguments tonight on side proposition	我今晚要提出三个论点
1552	First I will show that pakistan is not obsessed with conflict.	首先,我要表明,帕基斯坦并不沉迷于冲突。
1553	It is focused on building a future	重点是建设未来
1554	Second, I will show how populism has stolen india from its own founding ideals	第二,我将展示民粹主义是如何从自己的创始理想中窃取印度的
1555	And third I will show who truly pays the price for this rivalry	第三,我要展示谁真正为这场竞争付出代价
1556	Not governments, but the young people	不是政府,而是年轻人
1557	Mr president	总统先生
1558	I must clarify I stand here not just as a pakistani but as someone who believes in what this chamber stands for	我必须澄清,我站在这里不仅仅是一个帕基斯坦人,而且是一个相信这个会议厅所代表的人。
1559	That ideas are stronger than fear and that hope is stronger than hatred	思想比恐惧更强大,希望比仇恨更强大
1560	Coming to my first argument.	来我第一次辩论
1561	Mr. President	总统先生
1562	Let me begin with one simple truth	让我从一个简单的事实开始
1563	Pakistan is not obsessed with india	巴基斯坦不迷恋印地安人
1564	Pakistan is obsessed with its future	巴基斯坦沉迷于未来
1565	When indian populism rehearses hostility pakistan has been rebuilding quietly consistently and with purpose	当印度民粹主义排练敌意时帕克斯坦一直在悄悄地和有目的地重建
1566	firstly	首先是
1567	Diplomatically, we have become a regional leader	在外交方面,我们已经成为区域领导人
1568	Pakistan is a key partner in the china's belt and road initiative	巴基斯坦是瓷器带和道路倡议的关键伙伴
1569	Not as a conflict zone	不是作为冲突地区
1570	As they will tell you but as a corridor of trade	他们会告诉你,但作为贸易走廊
1571	energy and connectivity	能源和连通性
1572	secondly	第二组
1573	Global leaders and american administrations and leaders around the world have publicly praised pakistan	全球领导人以及世界各地的美国行政当局和领导人都公开赞扬巴基斯坦。
1574	over the last few weeks for its role in regional security	过去几周中它在区域安全方面的作用
1575	a recognition of cooperation not of confrontation	承认合作而不是对抗
1576	And finally pakistan continues to host over three million afghan refugees	最后,帕克斯坦继续收容300多万阿富汗难民
1577	One of the largest refugee populations in the world	世界上最大的难民人口之一
1578	This is not the behavior of a nation seeking conflict	这不是寻求冲突的国家的行为
1579	This is the behavior of a nation carrying a responsibility	这是国家的责任行为
1580	Internationally pakistan has taken serious steps forward in 2022	2022年,国际帕克斯坦采取了重大步骤
1581	We were removed from the fatf gray list after major reforms	经过重大改革,我们被从胖子灰色名单中删除了
1582	Our universities are growing our scholars are traveling	我们的大学在成长我们的学者在旅行
1583	Tonight three pakistani presidents of the union are sitting here as a living proof	今晚工会的三位巴基斯坦会长坐在这作为活的证据
1584	Women now make over half of the higher education enrollment a quiet but a very powerful statistic	现在,妇女使超过一半的高等教育入学率是一个安静但非常有力的统计。
1585	And mr president, I have seen this pakistan with my very own eyes	总统先生,我亲眼见过这个巴基斯坦人
1586	I survived one of the most tragic terrorist attacks in the history of pakistan about 10 years ago	10年前在巴基斯坦历史上最悲惨的恐怖袭击之一
1587	I lost my younger brother in that attack and I lost some of my closest friends	那次袭击我失去了弟弟我失去了一些最亲密的朋友
1588	and from that moment	从那时起
1589	It wasn't a sentiment against india or a sentiment against afghanistan or a sentiment against a particular group	这不是反对印地安的情绪,也不是反对阿富汗的情绪,也不是反对特定群体的情绪。
1590	But in that moment I made a choice that I would fight for a future where security is not identified	但那一刻,我做出了一个选择,我愿意为没有确定安全的未来而奋斗
1591	By or not defined by hostility but by opportunity	由或非由敌对行为界定,但由机会界定
1592	Since then I have campaigned across continents	从那时起,我横跨各大洲
1593	Not just for pakistani children for but for every child left behind by politics and war	不仅是为了帕基斯坦儿童也是为了政治和战争留下的每个孩子
1594	Whether it's a palestinian child whether it's a syrian child or whether it's an indian child	不管是苍白的小孩还是赛尔人的孩子还是印度人的孩子
1595	Because pain does not recognize borders and dignity should not either	因为痛苦不承认边界和尊严
1596	That mr president is the pakistan that I know of	总统先生是我知道的巴基斯坦人
1597	Not a nation waiting for conflict but a nation working for connections	不是一个等待冲突的国家,而是一个致力于联系的国家
1598	I sincerely hope and I sincerely hope	我真诚希望,我真诚希望
1599	That the young people of india also get the same chance to build to lead and to serve	印第亚的年轻人也获得同样的机会来领导和服务
1600	But if they're fed on a diet of populist hostility	但是,如果他们吃民粹主义的敌意的饮食
1601	If they're radicalized by a narrative instead of elevated by opportunity	如果用叙述来激化而不是机会来提升
1602	Then their potential will be sacrificed long before their politics even begin	在政治开始之前他们的潜能早就牺牲了
1603	interestingly my	有趣的是,我的爱
1604	predecessors in this debate mentioned	本次辩论中曾提到
1605	That every time india enters into an election cycle something familiar happens and you guys would have noticed this	每次India进入选举周期都会有熟悉的事情发生你们会注意到的
1606	suddenly tensions rise	紧张局势突然加剧
1607	Coverage intensifies a predictable sequence begins	扩大覆盖面,使一个可预测的顺序开始
1608	crisis	危机
1609	Media frenzy nationalist narratives the votes and that is the order of it	媒体狂热的民族主义者描述选票,这就是它的顺序
1610	It happened in 2016.	发生在2016年.
1611	It happened in 2019 and it happened more recently in 2025	发生在2019年,最近发生在2025年
1612	This is not a defense.	这不是辩护
1613	It is a dependence	这是一种依赖
1614	a country facing a threat	面临威胁的国家
1615	seeks solutions	寻求解决办法
1616	a government	政府
1617	seeking elections	争取选举
1618	seeks slogans	寻找标语
1619	That mr president is not a strategy that is populism dressed as security	总统先生的策略不是民粹主义
1620	Coming on to my second argument	开始我的第二次辩论
1621	On how populism has hijacked india's moral legacy	关于民粹主义是如何劫持英迪亚的道德遗产的
1622	No, thank you	不,谢谢
1623	once india	一次印地安岛
1624	Expanded the imaginations of asia	扩大了亚细亚的想象力
1625	today	今日( E)
1626	Too much of its politics tries to contain it	太多政治试图控制它
1627	Mr president there was a time there was a time when india led asia not by strength but by example	总统先生曾经有一段时间印地安领导亚细亚不是靠力量而是靠榜样
1628	A time when india showed the world that power did not need violence	当印度向世界展示权力不需要暴力
1629	That dignity did not need an army	这种尊严不需要军队
1630	That freedom did not need fear	这种自由不需要恐惧
1631	it was the india of nehru was the india of tagore and	是纳赫鲁的印地安人是塔科尔的印地安人
1632	an india of gandhiji	一个印度的甘地吉
1633	A nation that stood on diplomacy on pluralism and on moral courage	一个坚持外交多元主义和道德勇气的国家
1634	But in today's india, those values are no longer politically profitable	但是在今天的印地安, 这些价值不再在政治上有利可图
1635	And so they are being politically abandoned	所以他们在政治上被抛弃了
1636	And what does this abandonment look like you may ask?	这个抛弃是什么样子你可能会问?
1637	Well, it looks like track two diplomacy being shut down	看起来像两条外交线被关闭了
1638	It looks like calls for negotiation being labeled as anti-national	似乎要求谈判被贴上反国民标签
1639	It looks like artists artists being denied entry	看上去艺术家是被拒绝进入的
1640	cricketers banned scholars rejected	板球选手被禁学者拒绝
1641	Not because they pose a threat to the indian national security	不是因为他们对印度国家安全构成威胁
1642	But because they pose a threat to the narrative that they have created in india	因为他们对印地安人的叙述构成威胁
1643	it looks like sark paralyzed not because	它看起来像沙克瘫痪不是因为
1644	failure of dialogue	对话失败
1645	But because dialogue was never allowed to begin truly	但因为对话从未被允许真正开始
1646	that	那个
1647	That is what I realized that	这就是我意识到的
1648	Borders are not just a map	边框不只是地图
1649	apologies	对不起
1650	The moral tragedy of this whole story that i'm talking about is that india once fought	我所说的整个故事的道德悲剧是印地亚曾经战斗
1651	colonialism	殖民主义
1652	Today its own policies	今天它自己的政策
1653	use colonial tactics	使用殖民战术
1654	suspicion dominance divide and rule	怀疑支配地位的鸿沟和规则
1655	Let me tell you a very disheartening story that I had a couple of years ago	让我告诉你一个非常令人沮丧的故事我几年前有过
1656	I was at a global youth conference	我参加过一次全球青年大会
1657	And I met a young indian researcher bright curious analytic an exceptional person	我遇见了一位年轻的印度学者聪明的好奇心分析家一个非凡的人
1658	He told me	他告诉我
1659	that	那个
1660	I follow your work.	我跟着你的工作
1661	I admire it	我欣赏它
1662	But he joked that he couldn't say this in india because	但他开玩笑说他不能在印地安语里说这个因为
1663	Not because he disagreed with me but because he feared as being seen disloyal siding with a pakistani for merely seeking common ground	不是因为他不同意我而是因为他害怕被看成不忠与一个帕基斯塔尼站在一起只是寻求共同点
1664	That is when I realized that borders are not just on the map	那时我意识到边界不仅仅是地图上的
1665	They're being drawn in ambition	他们的野心很大
1666	in conversations and even in imaginations	在对话甚至想象中
1667	A country that once inspired the world's moral vocabulary is now teaching its own youth	一个曾经启发世界道德词汇的国家现在正在教育自己的青年
1668	to fear vocabulary itself	恐惧词汇本身
1669	So I ask you all here tonight	所以我今晚请大家来
1670	When when diplomacy is branded anti-national is that national security?	当外交被打上反国民的烙印时,那就是国家安全吗?
1671	Or is it political insecurity disguised as patriotism?	还是政治不安全伪装成爱国主义?
1672	when leaders speak of strength	当领导人谈论力量时
1673	but silence	但安静
1674	dialogue	对话
1675	Is that courage?	那是勇气吗?
1676	Or is it fear broadcasted through loud speakers?	还是通过大声的扬声器广播恐惧?
1677	The motion makes this clear	动议就说明了这一点
1678	India's policy towards Pakistan is not designed to solve problems	印度对巴基斯坦的政策不是为了解决问题
1679	It is designed to sustain narratives and while the politics of the past are repeated again and again	它旨在维持叙事和过去的政治反复重复
1680	The future of south asia is slipping away quietly	南方亚细亚的未来悄悄地消失
1681	And that mr president brings me to the final point	总统先生告诉我最后一点
1682	And the third point in this debate	辩论的第三点
1683	That the people who will pay the price	将付出代价的人
1684	For this rivalry and the highest price for this rivalry have not even voted yet	这场争斗和这场争斗的最高代价还没有投票
1685	mr president	总统先生
1686	South south asia has one of the youngest populations on earth	南阿西亚是地球上最年轻的人口之一
1687	65 percent of our people are under the age of 30	65%的人不到30岁
1688	youth unemployment is over 40 percent and yet	青年失业率超过40%,然而
1689	We have one of the highest defense budgets of anywhere in the world	我们有全世界最高的国防预算之一
1690	one of the lowest education investments	教育投资最低之一
1691	Of any emerging country in the world if the leaders of today keep turning to yesterday for direction	世界上任何新兴国家,如果今天的领导人继续转向昨天的方向
1692	The next generations will inherit	后世将继承
1693	Nothing	没什么
1694	I invite everyone to imagine this	我请大家想象一下
1695	Imagine a different horizon	想象一下不同的地平线
1696	Lahore and bangalore working together on technology karachi and mumbai shaping climate innovation	拉合尔和班加洛尔在技术卡拉奇和木乃伊塑造气候创新方面共同努力
1697	Delhi and islamabad leading in ai and health care research	德里和伊斯拉马巴德在AI和保健研究方面领先
1698	That vision my friends is not naive	那个幻象我的朋友并不天真
1699	It is normal everywhere else in the world	这在世界上其他任何地方都是正常的
1700	Only in south asia it is treated as dangerous	只有在南亚西亚才被视为危险
1701	the truth is	事实是
1702	Pakistan does not fear india's potential pakistan fears india losing its potential to populism and to politics	巴基斯坦并不担心印地安人潜在的巴基斯坦人担心印地安人失去民粹主义和政治的潜力
1703	Because every year we rehearse the same rivalry south asia loses another generation to delay and delay is the most powerful form of decline	因为每年我们排练同样的南阿西亚输掉另一代人来拖延也是最强大的衰落形式
1704	Mr. President the rivalry may be old but the cost is paid by the very young and that is precisely why this motion matters	总统先生,竞争可能已经很老了,但费用由年轻人承担,正因为如此,这个动议才重要
1705	to conclude	结束语
1706	mr president	总统先生
1707	Fear has shaped	恐惧已经形成
1708	for far too long	已经太久了
1709	the politics of south asia	南阿西亚的政治
1710	It has been mistaken for strength by many of the leaders that have come in our history	我们历史上的很多领导人都误认为它很强大
1711	And used as a strategy	作为战略
1712	But fear does not build as I said fear only delays	但恐惧并没有像我说的那样建立恐惧只是拖延
1713	And delay is the quietest form of decline	拖延是最安静的衰退形式
1714	What this region needs now is not louder voices not more polarization not us pointing fingers at each other	这个区域现在需要的不是大声的呼声不是更两极分化,不是我们互相指责
1715	But larger visions a generation is waiting for us.	但是,一代人更大的愿景正在等待着我们。
1716	It's counting on us	要靠我们了
1717	Not for permissions, but for possibilities	不是许可,而是可能性
1718	And so I will end with this	所以我会以这个结束
1719	The day we give hope a platform is the day progress will begin in south asia	希望有一天我们有一个平台那一天,将在南亚开始进步
1720	And I look forward	我期待着
1721	I really look forward to the day when the loudest rivalry in south asia	我真的很期待有一天南方亚细亚最激烈的竞争
1722	and between pakistan and india is	在帕克斯坦和印地安之间
1723	Is not on the borders	不是在边境
1724	But it's cricket	不过是板球
1725	Thank you so much.	非常感谢
1726	Thank you for listening	谢谢你的聆听
1727	I find you only remember for a speech.	我发现你只记得演讲
1728	I now	我现在
1729	look to	视图
1730	Sedan lagroth ex-secretary and ex-chief of staff kibble college to conclude the case for side opposition	塞丹·拉克鲁斯的前秘书兼前总参谋长基布学院完成对侧面反对派的诉讼
1731	Pakistan is a state that exists for war	巴基斯坦是一个存在战争的国家
1732	That is only one stable part of pakistan and that is its military	这只是帕克斯坦的一个稳定地区这是它的军队
1733	It is not its politicians.	它不是它的政治家。
1734	It is not its economy.	它不是它的经济。
1735	It is not even its people	连人民都不是
1736	It is its military.	它是它的军队。
1737	It is a country that has defined its idea around the opposition of india	这个国家将自己的思想建立在印地安人的反对之下
1738	It is a country that has defined its idea around the fact that they must go to war with their neighbors	这个国家已经把它的想法围绕着一个事实: 他们必须去与他们的邻居开战
1739	Because they cannot satisfy their own people.	因为他们不能满足自己的人民。
1740	It is a country that for the last 78 years	这是一个过去78年的国家
1741	Has turned itself into a single structure that feeds only the rich and elite who sit inside military	自己变成了一个单一的结构只能养活坐在军队中的富人和精英
1742	Campmates and who sit inside islamabad and cares not for the rest of its people	营友和坐在里面的人是拉马巴德,不关心它的其他人
1743	It cannot disavow its military	它不能放弃军队
1744	It cannot disavow its defensive posture because that is what lets its elite thrive	它不能放弃其防御姿态,因为这正是它精英兴旺的原因。
1745	That is what dooms its people to oblivion pakistan has one source of stability and that is its military	这就是其人民被遗忘的帕基斯坦有一个稳定来源,这就是其军事
1746	India exists and has its defensive structure in the way that it does because it must respond to the fundamental nature	印度的存在和它的防御结构是因为它必须对基本性质作出反应
1747	Of what its neighbor is	它的邻居是什么
1748	Musa came up here and told you	穆萨上来告诉你
1749	Oh, I beg for the souls of those indians who are being ruined by the populism of their country	我恳求那些印度人的灵魂被他们国家的民粹主义摧毁
1750	I tell you I beg for the souls of those pakistanis who have yet to experience democracy isa came up here and told you	我告诉你,我恳求那些尚未经历民主的巴基斯坦人的灵魂来到这里告诉你
1751	Oh in baluchistan, there are indian proxies who weave terror and there is nothing that can be done	哦,在俾路支斯坦, 有一些印度代理人谁编织恐怖,
1752	I tell you the reason kashmir remains the most militarized place in the world is because of pakistani terror groups that are funded by the	我告诉你们,卡什米尔仍然是世界上最军事化的地方是因为帕基斯坦恐怖集团
1753	That prevent peace from coming to that region amat came up here and told you oh look our diaspora is so great	阻止和平降临到那个地区,阿玛特来到这里, 告诉你哦,看,我们的侨民是如此伟大。
1754	Our scholars travel they learn things they do things but there is one country whose academic institutions rank highest in the world	我们的学者旅行他们学习他们做的东西但有一个国家的学术机构排名世界最高
1755	There is one country whose people now lead the world's global companies who stand across the world	现在有一个国家的人民领导着世界的全球性公司,它们遍布世界各地。
1756	Whether it be in africa in india in asia in europe in america and stand as the ceos the leaders the scientists and the researchers	无论是在非洲的India,在美洲的欧洲的Asia, 并站到顶峰领导者科学家和研究人员
1757	That are pushing the world forward and those are indians	这把世界推向前进那些是印度人
1758	I do not stand here	我不站在这里
1759	To hate upon pakistan.	憎恨帕基斯坦人讨厌巴基斯坦
1760	In fact, it brings me much sadness	其实,这给我带来了很多悲伤
1761	My family lived in lahore before partition	我家在分裂前住在拉合尔
1762	Some of my closest friends in oxford are people who will not be able to come to my house in india because they cannot travel there	我在牛福德的一些最亲密的朋友是那些因迪亚不能来我家的人因为他们不能去那儿
1763	There are people whose houses I cannot visit in pakistan because it becomes a security threat	有些人的家我无法去帕克斯坦因为这会威胁安全
1764	That is not the world that we want to live in but that is the world that we are forced to live in because india's	这不是我们想要生活的世界而是我们被迫生活的世界
1765	Military strategy india's defense strategy is not a response to populism.	军事战略英迪亚的防御战略并不是对民粹主义的回应.
1766	It's not a construction of populism	这不是民粹主义的建构
1767	It is a response to the truth that they have known for the last 77 years	这是对他们过去77年所了解真相的回应
1768	It is the truth that pakistan will do what it takes to bring military action against india what all three speakers	帕基斯坦将尽其所能对印地安人采取军事行动
1769	On side proposition told you is that oh	边上的提议告诉你,哦
1770	Pakistan is a great nuclear power that is exercise of strength.	巴基斯坦是一个强大的核大国,正在行使力量。
1771	Look at us.	看看我们
1772	We have been so kind	我们这么好心
1773	We have been so nice.	我们一直很好。
1774	We have done nothing	我们什么都没做
1775	India is a global power.	印度是一个全球强国。
1776	We have a nuclear arsenal that works	我们有一个有效的核武库
1777	We are one of the largest militaries in the world	我们是世界上最大的军事家之一
1778	We have tanks and planes and troops that could storm pakistan	我们有坦克、飞机和军队可能袭击巴基斯坦
1779	But we do not why because we are a country that exercises restraint	但我们不是因为我们是一个实行克制的国家
1780	We are a country that is focused on de-escalation	我们是一个注重缓和局势的国家
1781	We are a country that has chosen the path of peace because what do we have?	我们是一个选择和平道路的国家,因为我们有什么?
1782	We have a economy that is nearly worth five trillion dollars	我们的经济价值近五万亿美元
1783	We have a growing population that does not face the same unemployment crisis that pakistan does	我们的人口增长不像巴基斯坦那样面临失业危机
1784	We do not have a country where the majority of our money goes to our defense budget	我们没有国家,我们的钱大部分都用在国防预算上
1785	Because we do not feel the need to give that much money to our defense budget because we know that we can focus on our	因为我们觉得不需要给我们的国防预算那么多钱,因为我们知道我们可以专注于我们
1786	Own people we know that we can focus on our population india continues to grow and india continues to thrive	拥有我们所知道的人我们可以专注于我们的人口印地安人继续增长印地安人继续繁荣
1787	But pakistan continues to fund its military	但帕基斯坦继续资助军队
1788	So india must respond because when india is attacked it cannot stay silent because their neighbors will not stand back	所以India必须回应因为当India被攻击时它不能保持沉默因为邻居不会退缩
1789	Their neighbors will not back down because it is politically infeasible.	他们的邻居不会因为政治上不可行而退缩。
1790	It is economically infeasible to the individuals who hold the money	收钱的人在经济上不可行
1791	Who hold the power who hold the politics in pakistan do not have war happen because when war happens between our two nations	谁拥有在巴基斯坦掌握政治的权力没有战争发生,因为我们两国之间发生战争
1792	When there is conflict when there is difficulty it is not modi's electoral prospects that are bettered	当冲突发生时,如果有困难,莫迪的选举前景就不会好转。
1793	It is the bank accounts of pakistani politicians and generals that most benefit	帕基斯坦政治家和将军的银行账户最有益处
1794	Those are the people who are most benefited by this conflict	这些人是这场冲突的最大受益者
1795	Nobody else and civilians on both sides of the border pay the price for that	边界两边的无人和平民为此付出代价
1796	I'm terrified of war between our two countries	我害怕我们两国之间的战争
1797	All six speakers who have spoken in this debate have families in cities	在这次辩论中发言的六位发言者都有城市家庭。
1798	That would be the first cities to be struck if a nuclear conflict was to break out	如果核冲突爆发,那将是第一个被袭击的城市
1799	Almost every analysis of geopolitics analyzes india and pakistan as one of those weak safe points	几乎所有的地缘政治分析都把印地安和帕基斯坦分析为弱安全点之一
1800	Where nuclear war might in fact break out that is a dangerous place to be	在核战争可能爆发的地方,这是一个危险的地方
1801	That is a dangerous question of brickmanship	这是一个危险的砖头问题
1802	That is a question india does not want to face because india does not only know its potential	这是一个因迪亚不想面对的问题因为因迪亚不仅知道它的潜力
1803	It is living out its potential india is not a country that needs populism because india is not a country that is suffering	因为印度不是一个受苦受难的国家,
1804	India is a country that is growing that is advancing that is bettering its economy and bettering the happiness of its people	印度是一个正在增长、正在进步、正在改善经济、改善人民幸福的国家。
1805	Increasing in investment increasing in startups increasing in technological development increasing in foreign direct investment increasing in educational institutions	增加投资增加初创企业增加技术发展增加外国直接投资增加教育机构
1806	Why would we want a populist strategy that sells us defense?	为什么我们要一个民粹主义的策略来出卖我们的防御?
1807	We have a defense strategy that exists because unfortunately our neighbors give us no other choice	我们有一个防御战略的存在因为我们的邻居没有别的选择
1808	In hindu there is a saying	在兴都有一句谚语
1809	That is what pakistan have done loosely translates to shooting yourself in the foot	这就是帕基斯坦在脚部射伤自己时所做的事
1810	because while pakistan may be the great victim of terrorism in south asia they have	因为虽然帕基斯坦可能是南阿西亚恐怖主义的伟大受害者,但他们
1811	Groomed those terrorists.	驯服了这些恐怖分子。
1812	They have funded those terrorists.	他们资助了这些恐怖分子。
1813	They have ensured that those terrorists have a home to be in	他们确保了这些恐怖分子的家
1814	They've given them weapons.	他们给了他们武器。
1815	They've trained them.	他们训练过他们
1816	They've provided them with military aid	他们给他们提供了军事援助
1817	Intelligence support and directions into where to strike how to strike where to go	情报支持和向何处出击如何出击
1818	And when those terrorist groups attack their own people then they say oh no, we are the victims over here	当这些恐怖集团攻击自己的人民时,他们说不,我们是这里的受害者
1819	Yes, you may be the victims, but you are the victims of the actions of your own elite	是的,你可能是受害者, 但你是自己精英行为的受害者
1820	You are the victims of a defense strategy and an intelligence thesis those devised on the basis of the fact that we won't strike ourselves	你们是防御策略和情报理论的牺牲品我们不会攻击自己
1821	We'll have terrorist groups do it for us.	我们会让恐怖集团帮我们
1822	It'll be far more convenient that way	这样就更方便了
1823	What option does that leave their neighbors with?	他们的邻居有什么选择?
1824	What option does that leave a state with that must look to its own safety?	这给一个国家留下了什么样的选择,它必须着眼于其自身的安全?
1825	That knows that not only does it have a neighbor that holds nuclear power	你知道它不仅拥有一个拥有核能的邻居
1826	But it has a neighbor that holds nuclear power and it is unstable	但是它有一个拥有核电的邻居它不稳定
1827	That they do not know who the prime minister pakistan will be tomorrow because they do not know when the next military coup will strike	他们不知道帕克斯坦总理明天是谁因为他们不知道下次军事政变何时会发动
1828	They do not know who truly holds power because what is the case when half of the industry of the entire country is owned again?	他们不知道谁真正掌握了权力,因为当全国一半的工业再次被拥有时,情况是什么?
1829	By the same individuals who own the military	由拥有军队的同样个人
1830	We all look at the same vision of peace	我们都看得到同样的和平观
1831	We all look to the same vision of happiness	我们都期待着同样的幸福
1832	We look for a world where we can travel between both countries where pakistanis and indians can watch the same movies	我们寻找一个我们可以在两国间旅行的世界在那里,巴基斯坦人和印度人可以看同样的电影
1833	Not just in theaters in the united kingdom, but in theaters in islamabad and delhi	不仅在统一王国的剧院, 在伊斯拉马巴德和德尔希的剧院
1834	We look towards a world where this division does not exist	我们期待这个世界不存在这种分裂
1835	But for that do not let side opposition dress this debate up for you in pretty rhetorical flourish	但因为这样反对派才不会让这场辩论为您穿相当夸张的繁荣。
1836	They've told you oh, this is what we want.	他们已经告诉你了这就是我们想要的
1837	This is the future we look for	这是我们期待的未来
1838	But india modi oh so sad, you know all these, you know saffron hindu-wielding nationalists	但是,India Modi 哦,悲哀,你知道所有这些, 你知道红花兴都的民族主义者
1839	They've constructed this world where we just can't have peace	他们建造了这个世界我们无法和平
1840	I'm, sorry only one of us has a defense budget.	抱歉我们当中只有一个人有国防预算
1841	That's almost half of our gdp	这几乎是我们GDP的一半
1842	Only one of us has a country why they people will come up and say I will sacrifice my life for pakistan	只有我们有一个国家为什么他们要上来说我要为巴基斯坦牺牲生命
1843	Because indian citizens do not feel the need to do that	因为印度公民不需要这么做
1844	It is a simple world to look at why we have the defense activity we do	这是一个简单的世界,看看为什么我们有我们的防御活动
1845	Because it is not something that has changed since modi came into power	因为莫迪执政后事情没有改变
1846	In fact, it has been the same strategy that has existed for so long and not right now rather.	事实上,这种战略已经存在了这么久,而不是现在。
1847	Oh, I was the president	哦,我是总统
1848	No, and not right now	现在不行
1849	because quite simply	因为很简单
1850	We have practiced the same thing	我们练过同样的东西
1851	We ask for diplomacy	我们要求外交
1852	We don't want to be on the edge of nuclear war we send diplomats.	我们不想处于核战争的边缘我们派出外交官。
1853	We have discussions we play cricket	我们有讨论,我们玩板球
1854	看,如果icc听 bacci比任何人。
1855	I can't do anything about that.	我对此无能为力。
1856	We're just better at the game	我们玩得更好
1857	But we have worked to have peace and it is only when we have been faced with nothing	但是,我们一直努力争取和平,只有在我们一无所有的情况下,我们才能实现和平。
1858	But threats to our own sovereignty our own safety when our own people have been sacrificed on the altar of this senseless	但是,当我们自己的人民在这个毫无意义的祭坛上牺牲时,我们自己的安全受到威胁。
1859	Endless war that is carried on since the creation of both of our states	自从我们两个州建立以来发生的无休止的战争
1860	Do we respond and in those scenarios?	我们是否对这些情况作出反应?
1861	How do we respond?	我们如何回应?
1862	Do we march the tanks that we can do we send in the navy that we can do we send in the juts that we can	我们是否向坦克进军,我们能做的我们派出海军,我们可以做的,我们派军舰
1863	Do we deploy the missiles that we can that actually work unlike the pakistani ones?	难道我们部署的导弹我们能够做到这一点实际工作与帕基斯塔尼的?
1864	No, we do limited surgical strikes limited operations enough to send a message	不,我们做有限的外科手术有限的手术足够传达信息
1865	Enough to say no your actions will not stand enough to say we are a country that is willing to defend ourselves	足够说不你的行动不会足够说我们是一个愿意自卫的国家
1866	Even if we have better things to do than deal with you	即使我们还有比对付你更好的事要做
1867	But how do the pakistani populists respond?	但帕基斯坦民粹主义者的反应如何?
1868	They don't respond with peace.	他们不以和平回应.
1869	They don't respond with kindness	他们不善于回应
1870	They don't respond by listening to the message.	他们不通过听消息来回应.
1871	They don't engage in good trade discussions to take this forward	他们没有进行良好的贸易讨论来推进这一点
1872	So it is truly pakistan that is a problem that we must first solve	所以,这是真正的pakistan 这是一个问题我们必须首先解决
1873	To engage in a system where we can reach this peace and that is what is most important to understand for this debate	参与一个我们能够实现这一和平的制度,这是本次辩论需要理解的最重要因素。
1874	India is a country that is growing expanding and moving forward in its path of advancement	印度是一个正在不断扩大和前进的国家。
1875	It is a country that has not changed its military strategy or its posture.	它是一个没有改变其军事战略或姿态的国家。
1876	不,谢谢,Isra
1877	Or its posture in the last 77 years	或过去77年的姿态
1878	It is a country that has simply grown out of trauma difficulty and pain	这个国家刚刚摆脱了创伤和痛苦
1879	It is a country that has seen its fathers its brothers its uncle and grandparents lose their lives in a senseless violent war	这个国家目睹了父亲的兄弟叔叔和祖父母在一场毫无意义的暴力战争中丧生
1880	And the same is true for pakistan	帕基斯坦也是如此
1881	The same is true for both countries in this war because since partition we have been ripped apart	在这场战争中,两国同样如此,因为自从分治以来,我们被撕裂。
1882	And treated as enemies there is no need for this enmity	被当成敌人不需要这种敌意
1883	There is a need for peace and there is a way forward to that peace	和平是必需的,实现这种和平还有一条道路
1884	And it would be in the interests of any populist government regardless of where it might be	这符合任何民粹主义政府的利益, 不管它在哪里
1885	To seek the economic gain that would come from the happiness of both of these countries joining their hands together in trade in partnership and development	寻求从这两个国家的幸福中获得经济收益,共同携手合作和发展贸易
1886	Do not waste their time deploying their militaries and their troops across their borders to not waste their time engaging the senseless violent war	不要浪费他们的时间部署他们的军队和他们的军队越过他们的边界不要浪费他们的时间进行毫无意义的暴力战争
1887	But until pakistan changes india will defend itself because it has nothing else to do.	但在帕基斯坦改变印度语之前,它会为自己辩护,因为它没有别的事可做.
1888	I beg you to oppose	我求你反对
1889	Thank you so much everyone that was it for the debate and I just want to say a couple of things	谢谢大家参加辩论我只想说几句话
1890	It was um, this is brilliant the fact that you know, we have six friends three pakistanis three indians and they can sit down	这是嗯,这是辉煌的事实,你知道, 我们有六个朋友三巴基斯坦人三个印度人,他们可以坐下来
1891	And come in this chamber and have a great debate and have a great time and be civil and this gives us a lot of hope	来到这个会议厅,有一个伟大的辩论, 有一个伟大的时间和文明, 这给我们带来了很多希望
1892	For the future and this is what the oxfordian is about.	对于未来,这就是牛福德人是什么。
1893	Um, if it's your first time here	嗯,如果这是你的第一次在这里
1894	Um, I will once I put the motion towards the house	嗯,一旦我把动议对着房子
1895	You could vote on the motion depending on which side of the door you walk through	你可以投票表决动议取决于你走过的那扇门的哪一边
1896	So if you want to vote vote for the proposition you walk through the eyes	所以,如果你想投票提案你走过的眼睛
1897	If you want to vote for the opposition you walk through the nays	如果你想投给反对派你走过反对
1898	and	和
1899	That's all so now it gives me a great pleasure to put the motion before the house	都这样了,我很高兴能把动议放在家里
1900	That this house believes india's policy towards pakistan is a populist strategy sold as security policy	这个房子相信India对巴基斯坦的政策是一种民粹主义的策略作为安全政策出售
1901	Thank you so much for coming to the debate and with that I remain musa haraj billiard college and your president.	非常感谢你来参加这场辩论... ...而我仍然是Musa haraj 台球学院和你的总统。
1902	Thank you	谢谢

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