6-20 英国要换首相？安迪·伯纳姆会逼宫斯塔默吗？ | B
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:01 | Welcome to the Global News podcast from the BBC. | 欢迎来到英国广播公司的全球新闻播客。 |
| 0:04 | I'm Valerie Sanderson and I'm joined by our political correspondent Rob Watson. | 我是瓦莱丽·桑德森 我们的政治记者罗布·沃森也加入了我 |
| 0:09 | Rob, the Labour politician Andy Burnham has just won the Makerfield by-election. | 罗布,工党政治家安迪·伯纳姆刚刚在马克菲尔德补选中获胜. |
| 0:15 | This puts him in a position to challenge the sitting Labour Prime Minister Keir Starmer for leadership of the party | 这使得他能够挑战现任工党总理基尔·斯塔默(Keir Starmer)对党的领导. |
| 0:22 | and so become Prime Minister. | 成为首相 |
| 0:24 | Tell us about Andy Burnham. | 说说安迪·伯纳姆 |
| 0:26 | Let me try and give you a little pen portrait, shall I, Val? | 让我给你一张笔画,好吗,瓦尔? |
| 0:29 | So, he's 56. | 他才56岁 |
| 0:30 | I think it's important to start with that. | 我认为从这个开始很重要. |
| 0:32 | He was born in Liverpool. | 他出生于利物浦. |
展开字幕全文（145 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Welcome to the Global News podcast from the BBC. | 欢迎来到英国广播公司的全球新闻播客。 |
| 2 | I'm Valerie Sanderson and I'm joined by our political correspondent Rob Watson. | 我是瓦莱丽·桑德森 我们的政治记者罗布·沃森也加入了我 |
| 3 | Rob, the Labour politician Andy Burnham has just won the Makerfield by-election. | 罗布,工党政治家安迪·伯纳姆刚刚在马克菲尔德补选中获胜. |
| 4 | This puts him in a position to challenge the sitting Labour Prime Minister Keir Starmer for leadership of the party | 这使得他能够挑战现任工党总理基尔·斯塔默(Keir Starmer)对党的领导. |
| 5 | and so become Prime Minister. | 成为首相 |
| 6 | Tell us about Andy Burnham. | 说说安迪·伯纳姆 |
| 7 | Let me try and give you a little pen portrait, shall I, Val? | 让我给你一张笔画,好吗,瓦尔? |
| 8 | So, he's 56. | 他才56岁 |
| 9 | I think it's important to start with that. | 我认为从这个开始很重要. |
| 10 | He was born in Liverpool. | 他出生于利物浦. |
| 11 | He supports Everton Football Club, the other team in Liverpool. | 他支持利物浦的另一支球队埃弗顿足球俱乐部. |
| 12 | I support the other one. | 我支持另一个 |
| 13 | I've discussed that with him in the past. | 我过去和他谈过了 |
| 14 | He comes over as being very likeable, very approachable, very relatable. | 他过来时很讨人喜欢,很能接近,很能反感 |
| 15 | He's the kind of person who cares a lot about his appearance for a middle-aged man. | 他是那种很关心自己为中年人外表的人. |
| 16 | He's always dressed quite trendily and he tries to portray himself very much as a sort of ordinary bloke. | 他总是穿得很潮流 他试图把自己描绘成普通人 |
| 17 | You know, he likes beer. | 他喜欢啤酒 |
| 18 | He loves the Britpop music of the late 1990s. | 他喜欢1990年代后期的Britpop音乐. |
| 19 | He loves football, playing it and supporting it. | 他喜欢足球,打球和支持足球. |
| 20 | But interestingly, I think that he's the ultimate insider and outsider. | 但有趣的是,我认为他是终极的内幕和外幕人物. |
| 21 | Let me briefly explain. | 让我简单解释一下。 |
| 22 | I'm an insider in the sense that he went to Britain's famous Cambridge University, | 我是一个内幕人物 他去了英国著名的剑桥大学 |
| 23 | went straight from there pretty much into a life of Labour politics in Westminster in the capital. | 从那里直接进入了首都威斯敏斯特的劳动政治生活. |
| 24 | But for the last ten years, he's been the mayor of Greater Manchester | 但在过去的十年里 他一直是大曼彻斯特市长 |
| 25 | and now very much likes to say, I'm the outsider. | 现在非常喜欢说,我是外人。 |
| 26 | I'm the guy up north who can see what you're all doing wrong in London. | 我是北上的人 谁可以看到什么 你们在伦敦做错了。 |
| 27 | So, that's Andy Burnham. | 这是安迪·伯纳姆 |
| 28 | And I guess just one further line on it. | 我想再多说一句 |
| 29 | You know, to his critics, he's a likeable lightweight. | 你知道,对他的批评者来说, 他是一个相似的轻量级。 |
| 30 | And to his supporters, he's the Liberal Left's last best hope, Valerie. | 而对他的支持者来说,他是自由左翼最后的希望,瓦莱丽. |
| 31 | Well, he's such a threat because Keir Starmer is so fantastically unpopular | 他是个威胁 因为基尔·斯塔默非常不受欢迎 |
| 32 | inside his own governing Labour Party and, of course, out there in the wider country. | 在他执政的工党内部, 当然,在更广泛的国家。 |
| 33 | I mean, it's extraordinary the way in which Labour has gone from a landslide, | 我是说,工党从山体滑坡中脱颖而出 |
| 34 | albeit what people were calling a loveless landslide to the state it's in now. | 虽然人们称之为无爱的山体滑坡 它现在在州。 |
| 35 | And the reason why Andy Burnham is such a threat now, | 而为什么安迪・伯纳姆现在是一个威胁, |
| 36 | 他个人对Keir Starmer说,第一, | |
| 37 | I've got nothing to do with these last two years of Keir Starmer's government. | 我和基尔·斯塔默政府这两年没有关系 |
| 38 | I was up north in Manchester running the city very nicely. | 我在曼彻斯特北边管理着这座城市 |
| 39 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 40 | And secondly, he's now in a position to say, and guess what? | 其次,他现在有话要说,你猜怎么着? |
| 41 | I'm the guy that was able to beat the populists, the populists of the right reform led by Nigel Farage. | 我是能够打败民粹主义者的人, 由奈杰尔·法拉吉领导的正确的改革的民粹主义者. |
| 42 | So, it's those two things that make him such a threat to the Prime Minister. | 所以,正是这两件事让他如此威胁首相. |
| 43 | I mean, it would be quite something, wouldn't it? | 我的意思是,这将是相当的东西,不是吗? |
| 44 | Because as I understand it, no Labour Prime Minister has faced a formal challenge like that before. | 因为据我所知,没有一位工党总理曾经面临过这样的正式挑战. |
| 45 | Certainly not while they were actually in power. | 当然不是当他们实际掌权的时候。 |
| 46 | I mean, that would be utterly unprecedented. | 我的意思是,这将是完全前所未有的。 |
| 47 | And that's why some have suggested, come on, guys, you need to sort of meet in a quiet room in Downing Street | 这就是为什么有些人建议,来吧,伙计们, 你需要在唐宁街一个安静的房间相会 |
| 48 | and sort this out, sort this out between yourselves. | 并整理出这个, 解决自己之间的这个问题。 |
| 49 | Because what some Labour Party supporters are very worried about is that, look, if you did have this, | 因为一些工党支持者非常担心的是 如果你真的有这个 |
| 50 | if you had some contest between Andy Burnham and maybe Keir Starmer, maybe others, and it went on for months, | 如果你在安迪・伯纳姆和凯尔・斯塔默之间 有过一些竞争 也许还有其他人 |
| 51 | then, of course, you face the charge. | 那么,当然,你面对的指控。 |
| 52 | What on earth are you doing squabbling amongst yourselves when the country needs proper governance? | 当国家需要适当的治理时,你们究竟在干嘛? |
| 53 | So, that is the danger that the party faces. | 所以,这就是党面临的危险。 |
| 54 | But, of course, there is the counter argument, which is, look, you know, if you're going to change leaders | 但是,当然,有 反争论,即,你看, 你知道,如果你要改变领导者 |
| 55 | and therefore prime ministers, you better have a proper debate about it. | 因此,总理们,你最好好好辩论一下。 |
| 56 | And at this point, Valerie, it's not clear which one of those two approaches is going to win out. | 此时,瓦莱丽,尚不清楚这两种方法中哪一种会获胜. |
| 57 | Keir Starmer说他会反击的 | |
| 58 | I mean, can he? | 我的意思是,他可以吗? |
| 59 | That entirely depends not on his determination. | 这完全取决于他的决心。 |
| 60 | I don't think there's any doubt about that. | 岂有疑心. |
| 61 | And just to fill you in with a little bit of colour on this, I mean, we understand at the BBC | 顺便给你一点颜色 我们理解英国广播公司 |
| 62 | that Keir Starmer is not a great fan of Andy Burnham. | 基尔·斯塔默不是安迪·伯纳姆的粉丝 |
| 63 | He doesn't think that he's doing any better job than he's doing and that things would quickly turn sour. | 他并不认为自己做得比自己做得更好,而且事情会很快变酸. |
| 64 | But to get to the nub of your question, Keir Starmer is absolutely determined to fight on if he can. | 但为了解决你的问题 Keir Starmer决意继续战斗 |
| 65 | But, look, if he begins to find that support in the Labour Party is just draining away from him, | 但如果他开始发现工党的支持 正在从他身上消失 |
| 66 | whether inside his government or on what's known as the Labour-backed benches, ordinary MPs, | 无论是在他的政府内部 还是在所谓的工党支持的长凳上 普通议员 |
| 67 | then it wouldn't really matter how determined you are, Valerie. | 瓦莱丽,那就无所谓你有多坚定了 |
| 68 | You just wouldn't have any leg to stand on. | 你只是没有腿站立。 |
| 69 | Andy Burnham对英国的看法是什么? | |
| 70 | How would things change if he was in power? | 如果他当权,情况会怎样? |
| 71 | That's a very good question. | 这是一个非常好的问题。 |
| 72 | I mean, the short answer is we don't know. | 我的意思是,简短的答案是,我们不知道。 |
| 73 | I mean, what he's talked about is that language that politicians of the sort of soft left love, | 我的意思是,他谈论的是那种语言 政客的那种软左爱, |
| 74 | which is bringing unity, bringing hope, making sure that this is a country that works for everyone in the country, | 它带来了团结,带来了希望,确保这个国家为全国每一个人服务, |
| 75 | all parts of the country being against trickle-down economics is something that he says. | 全国各地都反对滴滴经济, |
| 76 | But I mean, exactly what are the fundamental differences, if any, between him and Keir Starmer, | 但是,我的意思是,到底是什么 根本区别,如果有任何, 他和基尔斯塔默, |
| 77 | who's also a politician of the soft left, on the key questions, which is foreign policy? | 谁也是软左派的政治家,关于关键问题,什么是外交政策? |
| 78 | Has he got any different vision there? | 他有不同的看法吗? |
| 79 | I haven't really heard anything. | 我什么也没听到 |
| 80 | And indeed on domestic policy. | 并且的确涉及到国内政策。 |
| 81 | Andy Burnham的手法有什么根本区别吗? | |
| 82 | sees both the size and the role of the state and crucially, Valerie, how on earth you would fund it, | 看国家的规模和作用 关键是,瓦莱丽,你如何资助它, |
| 83 | given that Britain is up to its eyes in debt. | 英国的债台高筑 |
| 84 | It has low growth, high debts and high costs of borrowing. | 它有低增长,高债务和高借贷成本. |
| 85 | So that vision question is a really good one and it raises all sorts of questions. | 因此,这个视觉问题是一个非常好的问题,它提出了各种各样的问题。 |
| 86 | Beyond having a more hopeful messenger, a messenger who clearly relates better to people than Keir Starmer, | 除了有一个更有希望的使者, 一个信使 明显与人比基尔·斯塔默, |
| 87 | Andy Burnham还会带来什么不同? | |
| 88 | I mean, he's won this by-election. | 他赢得了这次补选 |
| 89 | But do we know if he's popular with the British people? | 但我们知道他是否受英国人民的欢迎吗? |
| 90 | Well, I checked this all up. | 我查过了 |
| 91 | I double-checked it before we started to speak, Valerie. | 瓦莱丽,我们开始说话前我检查过 |
| 92 | And all you can say is that he's less unpopular than Keir Starmer. | 你只能说他比基尔·斯塔默更不受欢迎 |
| 93 | And I was looking at the figures from a company called Ipsos. | 我在看一个叫Ipsos的公司的数字。 |
| 94 | It's a polling company. | 这是一个投票公司。 |
| 95 | And Andy Burnham has a net favourability rating of minus seven. | 而安迪·伯纳姆的净优惠评级为负7. |
| 96 | Well, you might think, well, that's not great, is it? | 好吧,你可能会认为, 好吧,这不是很好,是吗? |
| 97 | But Keir Starmer's is around minus 34. | 但基尔・斯塔默的大约是负34。 |
| 98 | So Keir Starmer is massively unpopular, Andy Burnham somewhat less so. | 因此基尔·斯塔默(英语:Keir Starmer)受到极大的欢迎,安迪·伯纳姆(英语:Andy Burnham)则少了一点. |
| 99 | I mean, I should also add in parenthesis, Valerie, that all of Britain's politicians are fantastically unpopular | 我是说,我还要在括号里加上,瓦莱丽 英国所有政客都非常不受欢迎 |
| 100 | and most of them have negative favourability ratings. | 并且他们大多数都有负面的偏好评级. |
| 101 | And Labour is losing support to the Greens on the left, isn't it? | 工党正在失去对左边绿党的支持,不是吗? |
| 102 | And the Reform Party is surging on the right. | 而改革党则在右侧猛增. |
| 103 | So how difficult is it for any Labour leader to win an election? | 工党领袖赢得选举有多难? |
| 104 | Fantastically difficult. | 非常困难。 |
| 105 | And I think you summed it up nicely, the problem they face, they're in a pincer movement. | 我认为你很好地总结了一下, 他们所面临的问题, 他们正在一个针头运动中。 |
| 106 | So what they're doing is they're losing their traditional white working class voters. | 所以他们所做的就是他们失去了传统的白人工人阶级选民. |
| 107 | I mean, it's important to remember Labour was a party founded by trade unions. | 我的意思是,重要的是要记住,工党是一个由工会成立的政党. |
| 108 | And in those days, trade unions was mainly blokes working in factories and coal mines, shipbuilding and all sorts of stuff like that. | 在那些时候,工会 主要是在工厂和煤矿工作的人 造船和各种各样的事情。 |
| 109 | They were the lifeblood of the Labour Party. | 他们是工党的生命线 |
| 110 | Well, that sort of Britain doesn't really exist anymore. | 那种英国已经不存在了 |
| 111 | Anyway, those white working class voters have tended to move off to reform and other parties to the right, mainly for kind of cultural reasons, immigration reasons. | 无论如何,这些白人工人阶级选民倾向于转向改革和其他右翼政党,主要出于某种文化原因,移民原因. |
| 112 | They tend to be anti-immigration. | 他们倾向于反移民. |
| 113 | They tend to think that, you know, why does Britain always running down its history? | 他们倾向于认为,你知道,为什么英国总是在历史中运行? |
| 114 | But then Labour has lost as well or is losing that other sort of important chunk of its supporters, which are mainly young progressives, people who have had a university education. | 但后来工党也失去了或者正在失去 另一批重要的支持者, 他们主要是年轻的进步者, 受过大学教育的人。 |
| 115 | And the problem is a lot of them have gone off to the Green Party, some to the Liberal Democrats. | 问题在于他们中很多人都去了绿党,有些去了自由民主党. |
| 116 | So absolutely, it's a it's a very, very unpleasant squeeze for Labour from both sides. | 所以绝对,这是一个非常,非常不愉快的挤压 工党从两边。 |
| 117 | I mean, for anyone watching this, the UK was always known for its stable politics, wasn't it? | 我的意思是,任何人看这个, 英国总是以稳定的政治闻名,不是吗? |
| 118 | And long term prime ministers, I'm thinking of Margaret Thatcher, who was in power for 11 years, Tony Blair, former Labour prime minister for 10 years. | 长期总理,我想的是玛格丽特·撒切尔,他执政了11年,托尼·布莱尔,前工党总理长达10年. |
| 119 | And yet we've had six prime ministers in the last 10 years. | 然而我们在过去10年里有六位首相。 |
| 120 | So what has changed? | 那么,有什么变化? |
| 121 | So before doing this podcast, Valerie, I thought I'd do a little bit of research just to kind of put that question into some perspective. | 所以在做播客之前,瓦莱丽, 我想做一点研究, 把这个问题放在某种角度上。 |
| 122 | So we've had prime ministers. | 所以我们有总理 |
| 123 | The role has existed since the 18th century and up until 2016. | 该角色自18世纪一直存在到2016年. |
| 124 | So to back up your point, Valerie, most prime ministers lasted for over five years. | 所以为了支持你的观点 瓦莱丽 大多数总理都坚持了五年多 |
| 125 | We have now had or maybe about to have seven prime ministers in two years in 10 years, which would mean they'd all lasted for less than two years, which would be pretty extraordinary. | 我们现在有或可能即将有7位总理 在两年内在10年, 这将意味着他们都 持续不到两年, 这是相当不寻常的。 |
| 126 | As you say, after the run of people like Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair, what has happened? | 正如你说的,在玛格丽特·撒切尔和托尼·布莱尔等人的逃亡之后,发生了什么? |
| 127 | I think it's four things. | 以为四事. |
| 128 | Sorry to give you a list, but I'll try and make it brief. | 抱歉给你一份名单 但我会尽量简短的 |
| 129 | I mean, one is Brexit, which which created an extraordinary kind of division and rift in Britain, something that we hadn't really seen since the Civil War in the 17th century. | 我的意思是,一个是Brexit, 它在英国制造了一种非凡的分裂和裂痕, 一些我们从17世纪内战以来从未见过的东西。 |
| 130 | That's number one. | 即第一义. |
| 131 | Number two, we've had stagnating living standards since the financial crash in 2008. | 第二,自2008年金融崩溃以来,我们的生活水平停滞不前。 |
| 132 | Again, something that hasn't happened. | 再说一遍 事情还没发生 |
| 133 | Forgive me going back into history again since the Napoleonic Wars at the beginning of the 19th century. | 原谅我在19世纪初拿破仑战争后再次回到历史. |
| 134 | Thirdly, there is this kind of incredible concern over immigration and social cohesion. | 第三,对移民和社会融合有这种令人难以置信的关切。 |
| 135 | You know, a sense that the government hasn't really asked people permission for the large numbers of people who've arrived in the UK over the last few decades and how to integrate them. | 你知道,一种感知,政府并没有真正要求人们允许 在过去几十年里到达英国的大量人员 以及如何将他们融入社会。 |
| 136 | And that has created what many people feel is a real problem over social cohesion. | 这引起了许多人的感受 是一个真正的问题 而不是社会凝聚力。 |
| 137 | And then the fourth one is that sort of sense that, you know, the state just doesn't work anymore. | 第四个是那种感觉, 你知道,国家已经不起作用了。 |
| 138 | People think nothing in Britain works, whether it's the trains, you know, whatever it is, education, you name it. | 人们觉得在英国什么也做不了, 无论它是火车, 你知道,不管它是什么,教育, 你把它命名. |
| 139 | So we are in an immensely kind of gloomy mood as a country. | 因此,作为一个国家,我们处于一种极其阴郁的心情。 |
| 140 | We've been in that way now really since 2008, maybe a little bit before that. | 我们从2008年起就一直这样, 可能在2008年之前。 |
| 141 | And I think that explains why we're running through prime ministers quicker than let me try and think of something very quicker than my favorite football team runs through managers. | 我认为这解释了为什么我们比我想得快 更想想出比 我最喜欢的足球队更快的事 |
| 142 | Thanks, Rob. | 谢谢 罗布 |
| 143 | That was Rob Watson, our political correspondent. | 那是罗布·沃森 我们的政治记者 |
| 144 | If you want to find out more about the story, just listen to the Global News Podcast. | 如果你想更深入地了解这个故事,就听"全球新闻播报". |
| 145 | Just click on the link below. | 点击下面的链接 |
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