7-14 安迪·伯纳姆将如何应对特朗普、乌克兰及其他国际事务
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | Welcome to the Global News podcast here on YouTube. | 欢迎来到YouTube上的全球新闻播客 |
| 0:03 | I'm Valerie Sanderson and I'm joined by our political correspondent, | 我是瓦莱丽·桑德森 我们的政治记者也加入了我 |
| 0:06 | Raw Watson. | 原始华生. |
| 0:08 | This is a very big week, isn't it, for British politics? | 这周对英国政治来说很重要吧? |
| 0:12 | Keir Starmer making likely his last appearance in Parliament | Keir Starmer 可能他最后一次出现在议会 |
| 0:15 | as Prime Minister and his likely successor Andy Burnham | 作为总理及其可能的继任者安迪·伯纳姆 |
| 0:19 | is being grilled by members of his Labour Party about what he'll do | 他的工党党员正在纠缠他要做什么 |
| 0:23 | once in office and that's expected within days. | 一次上任,预计在几天内。 |
| 0:26 | Andy Burnham的重中之重将是什么? | |
| 0:31 | I think when it comes to foreign policy, I think continuity much more than radical change. | 我认为,关于外交政策,我认为连续性远不止于根本变化。 |
展开字幕全文（197 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Welcome to the Global News podcast here on YouTube. | 欢迎来到YouTube上的全球新闻播客 |
| 2 | I'm Valerie Sanderson and I'm joined by our political correspondent, | 我是瓦莱丽·桑德森 我们的政治记者也加入了我 |
| 3 | Raw Watson. | 原始华生. |
| 4 | This is a very big week, isn't it, for British politics? | 这周对英国政治来说很重要吧? |
| 5 | Keir Starmer making likely his last appearance in Parliament | Keir Starmer 可能他最后一次出现在议会 |
| 6 | as Prime Minister and his likely successor Andy Burnham | 作为总理及其可能的继任者安迪·伯纳姆 |
| 7 | is being grilled by members of his Labour Party about what he'll do | 他的工党党员正在纠缠他要做什么 |
| 8 | once in office and that's expected within days. | 一次上任,预计在几天内。 |
| 9 | Andy Burnham的重中之重将是什么? | |
| 10 | I think when it comes to foreign policy, I think continuity much more than radical change. | 我认为,关于外交政策,我认为连续性远不止于根本变化。 |
| 11 | I mean, I know that doesn't sound very sexy, but I think it is important to be straightforward | 我的意思是,我知道这听起来不是很性感, 但我认为重要的是要直截了当的 |
| 12 | about this and to say that British foreign policy is very much driven by our history, | 英国的外交政策 被我们的历史所驱使 |
| 13 | by our geography, by the country's interests, by events, of course, things like Russian invasion | 根据我们的地理,根据国家利益,根据事件,当然,如俄罗斯入侵 |
| 14 | of Ukraine, but there are these kind of solid drivers. | 乌克兰,但有这种坚固的驱动力。 |
| 15 | So I think expect to see the same kind | 所以我想应该会看到同样的 |
| 16 | of worldview from Andy Burnham as we've had from Keir Starmer. | 安迪・伯纳姆的世界观 就像我们从基尔・斯塔默获得的一样 |
| 17 | And important to remember | 记住重要 |
| 18 | that as far as we know, Andy Burnham is going to be keeping absolutely key and senior members | 据我们所知,安迪・伯纳姆 将保持绝对的关键和高级成员 |
| 19 | of Britain's foreign policy team, the team that existed under Keir Starmer. | 英国的外交政策团队 凯尔·斯塔默手下的团队 |
| 20 | So those priorities are free trade, trying to somehow maintain good relations | 因此,这些优先事项是自由贸易, 试图保持良好的关系 |
| 21 | with the United States, given the current incumbent of the White House, | 鉴于白宫现任长官 |
| 22 | trying to draw, continue that sort of process of repairing, if you like, the damage | 试图画画,继续这种修复过程,如果你喜欢的话, |
| 23 | in EU-UK relations since Brexit and essentially being a champion, as Keir Starmer has been, | 在欧盟和英国的关系上 自从布雷克西特 基本上是一个冠军, 正如凯尔·斯塔默一直, |
| 24 | for Britain's belief in the sort of international rule of law, multinational organisations like NATO | 英国相信国际法治 北约等多国组织 |
| 25 | and the United Nations. | 联 合 国 |
| 26 | Well, you mentioned President Trump and he views Andy Burnham, I think, as extremely liberal, | 你提到特朗普总统 他把安迪·伯纳姆视为极自由主义者 |
| 27 | is what he said. | 他就是这么说的 |
| 28 | So it's going to be quite a tricky one for Andy Burnham, isn't it? | 对安迪·伯纳姆来说会很棘手 不是吗? |
| 29 | It is. | 没错 |
| 30 | But I mean, I guess you could say Keir Starmer. | 但是我想你可以说是凯尔·斯塔默 |
| 31 | You couldn't get much more liberal | 你再自由不过了 |
| 32 | than Keir Starmer in the view of many in the White House. | 比Keir Starmer在白宫许多人眼中看到的还要多 |
| 33 | I mean, he was formerly a human | 他以前是人类 |
| 34 | rights lawyer. | 权利律师。 |
| 35 | I mean, that's pretty liberal, Valerie, pretty liberal. | 我的意思是,这是相当自由,瓦莱丽,相当自由。 |
| 36 | So, you know, it'll | 所以,你知道,它会 |
| 37 | be an odd combination. | 是一个奇怪的组合。 |
| 38 | I think people thought that Keir Starmer and Donald Trump would be | 我想人们会认为凯尔·斯塔默和唐纳德·特朗普 |
| 39 | an odd combination. | 一个奇怪的组合。 |
| 40 | People thought that Theresa May and Donald Trump would be an odd combination. | 人们以为特蕾莎·梅和唐纳德·特朗普会是一个奇怪的组合. |
| 41 | That really was. | 痷 |
| 42 | That did look very, very strange. | 这看起来非常非常奇怪。 |
| 43 | But, you know, Britain's interests | 但是,你知道,英国的利益 |
| 44 | are what will be uppermost in Andy Burnham's mind. | 才是安迪·伯纳姆心中最重要的 |
| 45 | And, you know, it'll be the same for | 而且,你知道,这将是相同的 |
| 46 | him as it was for Keir Starmer and Rishi Sunak that, you know, Britain must have a close | 他就像基尔·斯塔默和瑞希·苏纳克一样 英国一定很接近 |
| 47 | relationship with the United States. | 与美国的关系。 |
| 48 | It is the UK's most important trade partner, most | 它是英国最重要的贸易伙伴, |
| 49 | important security partner. | 重要的安全合作伙伴。 |
| 50 | I mean, will there be a few sparks? | 我的意思是,会有一些火花? |
| 51 | Will, you know, | 威尔,你知道, |
| 52 | may Andy Burnham speak in a way that perhaps Keir Starmer hasn't? | 也许安迪・伯纳姆说话的方式 也许基尔・斯塔默没有? |
| 53 | He's been very restrained | 他一直很受约束 |
| 54 | when talking about Donald Trump. | 在谈论唐纳德·特朗普时. |
| 55 | Who knows? | 谁知道呢? |
| 56 | But I don't think the fundamentals are going | 但我不认为 基本是去 |
| 57 | to change very much. | 要改变很多。 |
| 58 | And what about the relationship with the EU? | 那和欧盟的关系呢? |
| 59 | They're concerned, | 他们很担心 |
| 60 | aren't they, about Britain fulfilling its promises about increasing defence spending? | 英国是否履行了增加国防开支的承诺? |
| 61 | Yes, they are concerned, not just the EU, but Britain's NATO partners, including, of course, | 是的,他们关心的不仅仅是欧盟,还有英国的北约伙伴,当然包括, |
| 62 | the United States. | 美国。 |
| 63 | And I think it's worth pointing out, by the way, Valerie, that plenty of people | 顺便说一句 瓦莱丽 我觉得值得指出 很多人 |
| 64 | in Britain's defence establishment, whether that's in the armed forces or in defence manufacturing, | 在英国的国防机构, 无论是在军队或国防制造业, |
| 65 | are also wired as to exactly how Britain is going to keep these promises to increase very | 英国将如何履行这些承诺 大力提高 |
| 66 | significantly defence spending in the decade ahead. | 未来十年国防开支显著增加。 |
| 67 | And so far, Andy Burnham has endorsed | 目前为止,安迪·伯纳姆已经同意 |
| 68 | that idea of increased defence spending. | 增加国防开支的想法。 |
| 69 | But exactly as with the Keir Starmer government, | 但和基尔·斯塔默政府一样 |
| 70 | exactly how Britain is going to get there in the next 10 years, whether it will raise extra taxes, | 确切的说,英国将如何到达 在未来十年, 它是否将提高额外税收, |
| 71 | whether it will cut other bits of public spending, a lot of those difficult decisions | 这些困难的决定 |
| 72 | still lie ahead. | 临玡 |
| 73 | And what about Andy Burnham's attitude to Britain's relationship with the EU | Andy Burnham对英国与欧盟关系的态度如何? |
| 74 | itself? | 自己吗? |
| 75 | Well, again, I hate to be the continuity bore, Valerie, but like Keir Starmer, he was very | 好吧,再次,我讨厌的 连续性无聊,瓦莱丽, 但像基尔斯塔默,他非常 |
| 76 | much Remainer. | 留下很多东西 |
| 77 | He campaigned for Remain in 2016. | 他在2016年竞选留守. |
| 78 | Very much like Sir Keir Starmer, he's on the record | 和基尔·斯塔默爵士一样 他有记录 |
| 79 | of saying that he thinks Brexit was a big mistake for Britain economically and diplomatically. | 他说他认为布莱克西特在经济和外交上 对英国来说是个大错误 |
| 80 | But he has also said recently that while it has done damage to the British economy, he doesn't | 但是他最近也说过,虽然这给英国经济造成了损害,但他并没有 |
| 81 | think that it's helpful to reopen that whole sort of debate about the referendum and whether | 认为重开关于全民公决的争论 以及是否 |
| 82 | Britain should rejoin. | 英国应该重新加入。 |
| 83 | I mean, one should point out that about a year ago he did say that he hoped | 我的意思是,人们应该指出,大约一年前,他确实说过,他希望 |
| 84 | that in his lifetime Britain would rejoin the European Union. | 在他一生中,英国会重新加入欧洲联盟。 |
| 85 | But since then, as politicians | 但从那时起,作为政治家 |
| 86 | often do, Valerie, he's somewhat changed his tune because he's rather worried about upsetting | 经常是这样,瓦莱丽,他有些改变他的调子 因为他相当担心 惹恼 |
| 87 | leave voters who used to vote Labour. | 离开曾经投票的选民。 |
| 88 | But I mean, in broader terms, to get to the sort of nub of | 但是,从广义上来说,我是说, 去到那种微弱的 |
| 89 | question briefly, I think he will continue the work of Keir Starmer, and that is to get Britain | 简而言之,我想他将继续 Keir Starmer 的工作, 那就是让英国 |
| 90 | close to the European Union in terms of trade and security, but in a limited way. | 在贸易和安全方面与欧洲联盟关系密切,但程度有限。 |
| 91 | And that limit | 还有这个限度 |
| 92 | of those red lines that Britain has of not joining the two, rejoining the two main institutions, | 英国没有加入这两个国家的红线 重新加入两个主要机构 |
| 93 | what really makes the EU what it is, namely that the single market, hugely important, | 是什么真正使欧盟是什么, 即单一市场,非常重要, |
| 94 | or its customs union. | 或海关联盟。 |
| 95 | I don't think the Ukrainians need to be too worried about that because | 我觉得乌克兰人不必太担心 因为... |
| 96 | when it comes to foreign policy challenges, it is just about the Ukraine, the only thing that | 当涉及外交政策挑战时,它只是关于乌克兰,是唯一的东西 |
| 97 | cross party support in the UK and certainly carries support with British voters. | 英国的跨党派支持, |
| 98 | So I think | 所以我觉得 |
| 99 | of all the areas of foreign policy, that's probably the one where you would see absolutely | 在外交政策的所有领域, 这可能是一个你会看到绝对 |
| 100 | the least change because Andy Burnham has pledged his support for Ukraine, for its continued, | 因为安迪·伯纳姆承诺支持乌克兰 支持乌克兰的继续 |
| 101 | as they would see it, resistance to the Russian invasion. | 正如他们所看到的 抵抗俄国入侵 |
| 102 | And that is shared pretty much entirely | 这几乎是完全分享的 |
| 103 | across the political spectrum. | 包括政治层面。 |
| 104 | Now, the more complicated issue is how will he manage President | 现在,更复杂的问题是 他如何管理总统 |
| 105 | Trump and trying to keep President Trump and the United States administration engaged with helping | 特朗普试图让特朗普总统和美国政府参与帮助 |
| 106 | with Ukraine's defence, and of course, how will Britain continue to fund supplying military aid | 当然,英国如何继续资助提供军事援助? |
| 107 | and other material support for Ukraine. | 以及对乌克兰的其他物质支持。 |
| 108 | But actually, the broad thrust, is Andy Burnham as keen | 但实际上, 广泛的推力, 是安迪·伯纳姆的敏锐 |
| 109 | Kirstama was that Ukraine should survive. | Kirstama认为乌克兰应该生存下去。 |
| 110 | And is that support pretty rock solid behind him | 是他身后的坚固的支撑 |
| 111 | across the country? | 横跨全国? |
| 112 | Absolutely, it is. | 当然了 |
| 113 | So Kirstama, he's on a diplomatic blitz, isn't he in Paris at | 因此,基斯塔玛,他在外交闪电, 是不是他在巴黎在 |
| 114 | the moment? | 什么时候? |
| 115 | How do you think he's fared as an international statesman? | 你觉得他当国际政治家怎么样? |
| 116 | Do you think he's done | 你觉得他完了吗? |
| 117 | that better than the way he's regarded at home? | 这比他在家里看到的好? |
| 118 | Well, I mean, that's certainly what his supporters | 嗯,我的意思是,这当然是他的支持者 |
| 119 | would say that if you were to sort of tot up the score on Kirstama, they would probably concede | 他们会说,如果你排序 将基尔斯塔马的分数, 他们可能会承认 |
| 120 | that as a domestic politician, he has squandered the gigantic majority that he won in July 2024. | 作为一名国内政治家 他浪费了2024年7月赢得的多数 |
| 121 | But he'd been a domestic failure, deeply unpopular, but they had had foreign policy successes in terms | 但是他是一个国内失败者,非常不受欢迎,但他们在外交政策上取得了成功 |
| 122 | of managing the UK's relationship with the United States and with Donald Trump when it comes to | 管理英国与美国的关系 和唐纳德·特朗普的关系 |
| 123 | issues like tariffs. | 关税等问题。 |
| 124 | Kirstama himself often praises himself for having kept Britain out of the war | 基尔斯塔玛本人也经常称赞自己让英国不卷入战争. |
| 125 | between the United States, Iran and Israel. | 美国、伊朗和以色列之间。 |
| 126 | And he would say he'd been quietly working to restore | 他会说他一直在悄悄地努力恢复 |
| 127 | British relations with the European Union and to sort of restore, as he would see at Britain's | 英国与欧洲联盟的关系,以及恢复,正如他在英国的 |
| 128 | standing on the international stage as a supporter of international norms and institutions like the UN. | 成为国际舞台上联合国等国际规范和机构的支持者。 |
| 129 | So I guess not entirely unusually in recent British history, Valerie, he has become more | 瓦莱丽,我猜在英国的近代史上 他已经变得更多了 |
| 130 | popular with fellow heads of government and heads of state than he has been with his own voters. | 受到政府首脑和国家元首的欢迎, 而不是他曾经与自己的选民。 |
| 131 | But, you know, that's hardly unusual in British politics or indeed the politics of other democracies. | 但是,你知道,这在英国政治或实际上在其他民主国家的政治中并不罕见. |
| 132 | And talking about the world stage, how important is a change of British Prime Minister? | 并且谈论世界舞台,更换英国首相有多重要? |
| 133 | It is a very good question. | 这是一个非常好的问题。 |
| 134 | And, you know, I was talking not that long ago with an incredibly | 而且,你知道,我不是说 不久前与一个令人难以置信的 |
| 135 | sort of senior figure formally from British diplomacy, someone who'd had a key role in | 英国外交界的高级人物 曾经在 |
| 136 | many of Britain's big foreign policy challenges. | 英国的许多外交政策挑战。 |
| 137 | And this person said to me, I wonder how much it | 这个人对我说,我不知道它有多少 |
| 138 | actually matters when we have a change in Prime Minister given that Britain is no longer a member | 事实上,当首相换届时 英国不再是成员了 |
| 139 | of the European Union. | 临时代办 |
| 140 | In other words, this ex-diplomat was making the case that Britain had | 换句话说,这位前外交官正证明英国 |
| 141 | been weakened on the world stage, that it had somehow removed one of its key tools from its | 在世界舞台上被削弱,不知何故,它从它的主要工具之一中移除了。 |
| 142 | foreign policy basket. | 外交政策篮子。 |
| 143 | And I mean, I don't think anyone would deny that the outside world has been | 我的意思是,我不认为任何人会否认 外界已经 |
| 144 | looking in on Britain's sort of domestic political tribulations these last 10 years or so. | 调查英国过去10年的 国内政治困境 |
| 145 | And I think it's just a sort of a statement of fact, isn't it, that countries which don't look | 我认为这只是一种事实陈述,不是吗, 那些不看 |
| 146 | massively united and prosperous at home clearly carry less clout on the international stage. | 在国内大规模团结和繁荣显然在国际舞台上影响力较小。 |
| 147 | I mean, I think you have to be careful about overstating that. | 我的意思是,我觉得你必须小心 夸大这一点。 |
| 148 | Britain still has, you know, | 英国仍然,你知道, |
| 149 | a very large economy, one of the top 10 in the world. | 一个非常大的经济, 世界前十名之一。 |
| 150 | It still has some pretty efficient | 它还是很有效率的 |
| 151 | forces. | 部队。 |
| 152 | It has very impressive intelligence agencies. | 它有非常令人印象深刻的情报机构。 |
| 153 | And of course, it has a seat at the | 当然,它有一个座位在 |
| 154 | top table in many organisations, particularly one thinks of its seat on the UN Security Council. | 特别是考虑到它在联合国安全理事会的席位。 |
| 155 | But I mean, you know, does Andy Burnham inherit, you know, the leadership of a country absolutely | 但我是说,你知道,安迪・伯纳姆 继承,你知道,一个国家的领导绝对 |
| 156 | kind of widely regarded around the world and perhaps the same way it was 10, 15 years ago? | 和10,15年前一样? |
| 157 | Possibly not. | 也许不会 |
| 158 | And do you think actually he will be very much preoccupied with domestic | 你觉得他真的会 忙于家务 |
| 159 | matters, particularly the economy, than striding across the world stage as an international | 特别是经济问题,而不是在世界舞台上作为国际舞台 |
| 160 | statesman? | 政治家? |
| 161 | I guess the answer to that, Valerie, is if he has any say in it, he will. | 我想答案是,瓦莱丽, 如果他有任何发言权,他会的。 |
| 162 | But I mean, | 但我想说, |
| 163 | I guess, as Keir Starmer pointed out and previous prime ministers, you don't really get a choice. | 我想,正如基尔·斯塔默(Keir Starmer)和前几任首相所指出的,你没有真正的选择. |
| 164 | I mean, if you're a country with a high profile like the UK, and if you're very much exposed | 我的意思是,如果你是一个国家 高知名度像英国, 如果你非常暴露 |
| 165 | to the world in terms of trade and security, if stuff happens, you just have to deal with that | 在贸易和安全方面,如果事情发生,你只需要处理 |
| 166 | because that does affect the living conditions of your voters and your citizens. | 因为这确实影响到选民和公民的生活条件。 |
| 167 | But absolutely, | 但绝对 |
| 168 | and no doubt that Andy Burnham will try to prioritise turning around, I guess what you | Andy Burnham无疑会把转身放在优先位置 我猜你是... |
| 169 | would call this rather gloomy mood which has descended on Britain these last 10 years. | 英国过去10年来 一直沉闷的情绪 |
| 170 | So you | 这么说你 |
| 171 | have one of those interesting lines in one of Andy Burnham's speeches recently where he talks about, | 在安迪·伯纳姆最近的讲话中 有一句有趣的台词 |
| 172 | you know, restoring hope in every hard heart and growth in every postcode, this sort of idea that | 你知道,恢复每颗硬心的希望 和每个邮编中的成长, 这种想法, |
| 173 | we all need to cheer up and we need to have growth everywhere. | 我们都需要振作起来,我们需要到处增长。 |
| 174 | So there's no doubt that'll be his | 所以这无疑是他的 |
| 175 | absolute priority, whether he's allowed to do that. | 绝对优先,是否允许他这样做。 |
| 176 | I mean, who knows? | 谁知道呢? |
| 177 | And just sort of one | 也只是有点 |
| 178 | final thought on that, because we've been talking a lot about foreign policy, you know, in the end, | 最后的思考,因为我们一直在谈论 外交政策,你知道,最后, |
| 179 | all politics is local in the sense that what really drives British prime ministers, and I'm | 所有政治都是地方性的 真正驱使英国首相的 |
| 180 | sure Andy Burnham will be no different, is number one, how on earth do you keep your own MPs and | Andy Burnham肯定不会有什么不同,是头号的, 你怎么保留自己的议员和 |
| 181 | activists happy from one Saturday to the next? | 活动人士从一个星期六到下一个星期六都快乐吗? |
| 182 | And the other thing that prime ministers always | 还有一件事,总理总是 |
| 183 | have an eye on is the next election and winning it. | 注意下次选举 赢得选举 |
| 184 | So yes, the world won't go away, but do | 所以,是的,世界不会消失,但做 |
| 185 | politicians tend to focus on, you know, who casts votes for them and who supports them in Parliament? | 政治人物倾向于关注,你知道,谁为他们投票,谁在议会中支持他们? |
| 186 | You betcha. | 当然 |
| 187 | Thanks, Rob. | 谢谢 罗布 |
| 188 | That was Rob Watson, our political correspondent. | 那是罗布·沃森 我们的政治记者 |
| 189 | If you'd like to find out | 如果你想知道的话 |
| 190 | more about this story, listen to the Global News podcast. | 更多关于这个故事, 听全球新闻播客。 |
| 191 | Just click on the link below. | 点击下面的链接 |
| 192 | But that's | 不过 |
| 193 | from this edition of the Global News podcast here on YouTube. | 从这版全球新闻播客 这里的YouTube。 |
| 194 | Thanks for listening. | 谢谢你的倾听。 |
| 195 | Thanks | 谢谢 |
| 196 | for watching. | 为了观看。 |
| 197 | Bye for now. | 再见 |
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