普林斯顿-耶鲁“相约周末”品读汇第五场：项飚×中外学者探讨A

普林斯顿-耶鲁“相约周末”品读汇第五场：项飚×中外学者探讨AI时代，人类的最后一份工作是什么？

发布于 2024-06-24 · 时长 1:35:35

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:03	So hi professor.	老师好
0:04	Good evening, everyone.	大家晚上好,我们走
0:06	Welcome to the event today.	欢迎来到今天的活动。
0:07	So I want to give a little bit self introduction	所以我想自我介绍一下
0:10	My name is Ling Shi Li.	我叫灵石李
0:12	I'm the managing director of the Princeton University Press China office	我是普林斯顿大学出版社中国办事处总经理
0:17	So thanks all the online and offline audience for joining our June Princeton Yale idea series	感谢所有在线和下线观众加入我们6月的普林斯顿耶鲁计划系列
0:24	This is a new initiative in this year	这是今年的新举措
0:27	Featuring world-leading scholars and their most recent publications aiming to foster scholarly exchange between China and the West	培养世界领先学者及其最新出版物,以促进中西学术交流
0:35	Most cutting-edge topics of global relevance.	具有全球相关性的最前沿议题。

展开字幕全文（995 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	So hi professor.	老师好
2	Good evening, everyone.	大家晚上好,我们走
3	Welcome to the event today.	欢迎来到今天的活动。
4	So I want to give a little bit self introduction	所以我想自我介绍一下
5	My name is Ling Shi Li.	我叫灵石李
6	I'm the managing director of the Princeton University Press China office	我是普林斯顿大学出版社中国办事处总经理
7	So thanks all the online and offline audience for joining our June Princeton Yale idea series	感谢所有在线和下线观众加入我们6月的普林斯顿耶鲁计划系列
8	This is a new initiative in this year	这是今年的新举措
9	Featuring world-leading scholars and their most recent publications aiming to foster scholarly exchange between China and the West	培养世界领先学者及其最新出版物,以促进中西学术交流
10	Most cutting-edge topics of global relevance.	具有全球相关性的最前沿议题。
11	So I just want to give a very brief introduction of the press in China	我只想简单介绍一下中国的媒体
12	Princeton University Press is the only and so far at the first and so far the only	普林斯顿大学新闻是唯一的并且到目前为止,在第一, 到目前为止,唯一的
13	American University Press opening an office in China	美国大学出版社在中国开设办事处
14	Dedicated to the two-way exchange	致力于双向交流
15	Publishing the very best scholars in China bringing their perspective to the attention of a global audience and	发表中国最优秀的学者提请全球观众注意他们的观点
16	Bringing the English language works into China and foster global learnings	把英语作品带入中国,培育全球学习.
17	So today we are very pleased to have three honorable guests to feature our recent book	所以今天我们很高兴有三位贵宾来介绍我们最近的书
18	The last human job to our readers in China	中国读者最后的人类工作
19	So the author will join us online and the moderator of today is professor Tian Gen	所以作者会加入我们的网络今天的主持人是田源教授
20	Who is associate professor in the Department of Sociology and Peking University?	社会学系和北京大学谁是副教授?.
21	He received his bachelor degree in Peking University and PhD in sociology	他在北京大学获得学士学位和社会学博士学位
22	From the University of Chicago with primary research interest in political sociology	芝加哥大学,主要研究政治社会学
23	Historical sociology and social theory so a little a little bit of the house through today is professor Tian	历史社会学和社会学理论所以今天这里有一点点是天教授
24	will briefly introduce the books and and and the and the two speakers and	将简要介绍这些书籍和两位发言者,
25	The speaker will speak for 40 minutes to offer the key insights of the book and professor Shambil	演讲者将发言40分钟,介绍书中的关键见解和沙姆比尔教授
26	We'll share his perspective for another 15 minutes.	我们再分享他15分钟的看法
27	Then there will be a discussion and a Q&A sessions and	然后将有一个讨论和QQA会议,
28	I want to give my ongoing	我想把我的持续
29	appreciation to	致谢
30	Yale Center Beijing and welcome Carol to introduce a little bit of the center and the history.	耶鲁北京中心欢迎卡罗尔介绍一点中心与历史.
31	Yep, Carol	是的,卡罗尔
32	Good evening to our audiences here and good morning to Allison and good afternoon to professor	晚上好观众们早上好艾莉森下午好教授
33	Young	年轻
34	Welcome to this Princeton University Press and Yale Center Beijing event	欢迎来到普林斯顿大学出版社和耶鲁中心北京活动
35	My name is Carol Rafferty.	我叫卡萝拉费蒂
36	I'm a Yale College graduate as well as the executive director for Yale Center, Beijing	我是耶鲁大学毕业生,也是耶鲁中心执行董事,北京
37	This year, we're celebrating our 10th anniversary in Beijing and	今年我们在北京庆祝十周年
38	I'm just so delighted that we've had this long-standing partnership with Princeton University Press	我很高兴我们和普林斯顿大学出版社有长期的伙伴关系
39	Where we feature	我们的特色
40	the best authors from around the world and scholars as well to be	来自世界各地最好的作者和学者
41	Discussing the most interesting and cutting-edge issues facing our world.	讨论我们世界面临的最有趣和最尖端的问题。
42	Many of you may already follow our	很多人可能已经跟着我们
43	WeChat accounts or Chinese social media accounts	WeChat 账户或中国社交媒体账户
44	Around every two to three days.	每两三天一次
45	We have an event like these featuring thought leaders from all sectors.	我们有一个这样的活动, 由来自所有部门的思想领袖组成。
46	So	这么说
47	Hopefully I'll get to see many of you and I also want to welcome	希望我能见到你们中的很多人我也欢迎你们
48	The scholars on today's panel or discussion today professor Allison Pugh	今天的小组讨论或讨论的学者们 Allison Pugh教授
49	From the University of Virginia.	弗吉尼亚大学的
50	I got I should have brought a copy with me	我得到了我应该带副本给我
51	I bought a copy of the book today at the event	我今天在活动中买了一本书
52	Which is at a discounted price and I hope many of you will as well	价格低廉,我希望你们中很多人也能
53	Also, welcome to professor shang bail from Oxford University and professor Tiangong from Peking University	另外,欢迎牛津大学的张保学教授和北京大学的季贡教授
54	I hope I'll be able to welcome many of you in person in the very new near future and without further ado	我希望我能亲自欢迎你们中的许多人不久的将来
55	Let's welcome professor Tiangong.	我们来欢迎蒂冈教授
56	Thank you very much	非常感谢
57	Good evening the audience and the Yale Center	晚上好,观众和耶鲁中心
58	Thank you so much the US Center in Beijing and Princeton University press for accommodating such an exciting event	感谢美国北京中心和普林斯顿大学的媒体接待了如此激动人心的活动
59	That brings us the very exciting book by professor Pugh	这给我们带来了非常令人兴奋的书 Pugh教授
60	So in the beginning, let me just introduce our author and the main discussant so that we can begin	因此,首先,让我介绍我们的作者和主要讨论者,以便我们能够开始
61	Hearing about	听取关于
62	Professor Pugh's introduction of his wonderful book	普格教授介绍他的精彩著作
63	Professor Pugh's book.	普格教授的书。
64	This is the fourth monograph.	这是第四本专著.
65	I think the first coming out from Princeton University press	我想普林斯顿大学的出版社第一次出现
66	the lost a human job	失去了一份人类工作
67	so in the first of three books professor Pugh	所以在三本书中的第一本里普格教授
68	I did a wonderful sociologist works on sociology of culture	我做了一个出色的社会学家研究文化的社会学
69	emotional labor and	情感劳动和
70	Also, he has a cute analysis of how carrying job can deliver humane	而且,他有一个可爱的分析如何承担工作可以交付人道
71	Values and and goals	价值和目标
72	so in this book, we will see a fascinating combination of of a long research tradition that emphasized the	因此,在这本书中,我们将看到一个迷人的组合一个长期的研究传统,强调
73	emotional understanding of interpersonal interaction and also a very internet innovative framework that	情感上对人际互动的理解,同时也是一个非常互联网创新的框架,
74	Put the ongoing AI mass movement into our most intimate social relationship	把正在进行的AI大众运动纳入我们最亲密的社会关系中.
75	I believe professor Pugh and had many	我相信Pugh教授有过很多
76	Wonderful findings and also his unique fieldwork experience to share with us	精彩的发现和他独特的实地工作经验与我们分享
77	now professor Pugh is a professor in University of Virginia and	普格教授是弗吉尼亚大学的教授
78	she's a	她是一个
79	the Vice President-Elect of the American Sociological Association	美国社会学协会副主席选举
80	Our main discussant for tonight	我们今晚的主要讨论者
81	Professor shang biao is also widely known to the Chinese audience also the international scholarly community for his	尚彪教授也为中国观众所熟知也为国际学术界所熟知
82	Innovative works on the sociological ethnographies	社会学民族学方面的创新著作
83	So professor shang published his first book it's called the community that crosses	所以尚教授发表了他的第一本书叫做交叉社区
84	boundaries based on his	边界
85	field work in Beijing in his BA and MA years and then he published	他的学士和硕士时代在北京的实地工作,后来他发表了
86	His award-winning book in also from Princeton University Press the global body shop	他也是普林斯顿大学的获奖书出版全球体店
87	for the last	最后一个
88	Few years as many of the audience may know that professor shang is very	很少的观众会知道尚教授非常
89	focusing on	重点
90	revealing the	揭示
91	emotional texture of	情感纹理
92	People's knowledge about their proximity of their parochial communities	人们知道自己离教区很近
93	Because he emphasized	因为他强调
94	How to get our human emotion back to the highly mobile	如何让我们的情感回到高度机动
95	How do you technologize the book life in current society?	如何在现今的社会中对书生进行技术研究?
96	So I believe professor shang is a perfect	所以,我认为教授翔是一个完美的
97	Discussing for professor Pugh's book because both had	讨论Pugh教授的书因为两人
98	Wonderful fieldwork and also have	出色的实地工作,还有
99	written out	写出来
100	Books about how we should know ourselves how in what circumstances we claim that we know each other	关于我们如何了解自己的书籍如何在什么情况下我们声称我们彼此了解
101	by a unique emotional	由独特的情感
102	standing so	站着
103	Let's welcome our our author and discuss and professor Pugh, please	让我们欢迎我们的作者讨论和教授Pugh,请
104	Okay, so thank you so much for this invitation.	好吧,所以非常感谢你的邀请。
105	I really appreciate it	我真的很感谢你
106	I'm particularly grateful to the Yale Center Beijing and also to my	我特别感谢耶鲁中心北京和我
107	Discussants and those who have been introducing me and buying the book today.	讨论者以及今天介绍我买书的人
108	That's so kind	这太客气了
109	I'm very appreciative	非常感谢
110	Let's see	让我看看
111	So I'm gonna jump right in and say that as we assess the risks of AI	所以我要跳进去说当我们评估AI的风险时
112	We are overlooking a crucial threat	我们忽略了一个关键的威胁
113	critics commonly highlight	批评者通常强调
114	three primary hazards that's	三个主要的危害是:
115	job disruption loss	工作中断损失
116	Bias and	偏见和
117	surveillance or privacy	监视或隐私
118	We hear that AI will cause many people to lose their jobs from dermatologists to truck drivers to marketers	我们听说AI会让很多人失去工作从皮肤科医生到卡车司机到市场营销员
119	We hear how AI turns	我们听到AI如何转身
120	historical correlations into predictions that	历史与预测的相关性
121	enforce inequality	执行不平等
122	So that in the United States	所以在美国
123	Sentencing algorithms predict more recidivism for black men than white ones	判决算法预测黑人的累犯比白人多
124	We hear that apps help authorities watch people	我们听说,应用帮助当局监视人们
125	Such as Amazon tracking which drivers look away from the road	比如亚马逊跟踪司机从路边望去
126	What we are not talking about however is just as vital	但是,我们没有谈论的是同样重要的
127	What happens to human relationship when one side is mechanized?	一方机械化后,人际关系会怎样?
128	The conventional story of AI's dangers is	关于AI危险的传统故事是:
129	Blinding us to its role in a cresting	蒙蔽了我们在星座中的角色
130	Depersonalization crisis if we are concerned about increasing loneliness and social fragmentation	如果我们担心孤独感和社会分化的加剧,就会发生人格解体危机
131	Then we should pay closer attention to the kind of human connections that we enable or impede and	然后,我们应当更加密切地注意我们促成或阻碍人类联系的种类。
132	Those connections are being transformed by an influx of technology.	技术的涌入正在改变这些联系。
133	I spent five years	我花了五年时间
134	observing	观察
135	And talking to more than a hundred people employed in human interpersonal work	和一百多人交谈受雇于人际工作
136	Which I came to call connective labor	我是来叫联系劳工的
137	I also talked to the engineers who are automating and the administrators who are overseeing this work	我还和那些正在自动化的工程师和那些监督这项工作的管理员谈过了
138	And I found that the injection of technology into relationships	我发现把技术注入关系
139	renders connective labor invisible makes workers have to prove that they are not robots and	让连锁劳工看不见工人必须证明他们不是机器人
140	encourages firms to overload workers	鼓励企业超载工人;
141	compressing their labor into ever smaller increments of time and space and	把他们的劳动压缩为时间和空间越来越大的增量,
142	Most important no matter how good the AI is there is no human relationship when one half of the encounter is a machine	最重要的是,无论人工智能有多好当一半的遭遇是机器时没有人际关系
143	What you're looking at actually are pictures of my work	你所看到的其实是我作品的照片
144	That was involved in the talking and observing of the practitioners who did this work my focus on this work is	这涉及到对从事这项工作的从业人员的谈话和观察。
145	My focus in this research is on work that requires relationship.	我的研究重点是需要关系的工作。
146	So that means therapists teachers	这就是说,治疗师老师
147	coaches	教练
148	sex workers even business managers and high-end sales staff	性工作者甚至企业经理和高端销售人员
149	Many depend on their ability to connect to others to make their contribution	许多人依靠他们与他人建立联系的能力来作出贡献。
150	clients healing	客户治愈
151	students learning	学生学习
152	employees motivated	雇员积极性
153	customers satisfied if we pay attention to what these different jobs require from their workers	顾客满意,如果我们关注这些不同的工作要求他们的工人
154	We see a lot of commonalities	我们有很多共同点
155	They all seem to require some form of empathic listening in which one cultivates a sense of or a vision of	他们似乎都要求某种形式的同情心倾听,在这种倾听中,人们培养一种感觉或一种视觉。
156	the other person and	对方和
157	Witnessing in which that vision is reflected back to the other	见证了这一愿景的反射
158	another crucial ingredient is the ability to	另一个关键要素是有能力
159	Regulate one's own emotions to get out of the way of hearing and understanding the other	控制自己的情绪远离听觉和理解对方
160	Most important this process is deeply	最重要的是这个过程
161	interactive	交互式
162	Not least because for it to land	至少因为要降落
163	Successfully the other must assent to some degree with the vision that is being reflected their way	对方必须在某种程度上同意反映其方式的愿景
164	I call this work connective labor	我把这工作叫做连锁劳动
165	To capture this mutual achievement and I define it as the forging of an emotional	为了抓住这个共同的成就我把它定义为塑造情感
166	understanding of another person to create valuable outcomes	理解他人创造宝贵结果
167	This work is essentially invisible	这部作品基本上是隐形的
168	It's only partially understood and not usually recognized	它只是部分理解通常不被承认
169	reimbursed or rewarded	偿还或奖励
170	Despite its ubiquity and importance.	虽其无所不见而有其重要性.
171	It has long been associated with femininity	长期与女性有关
172	presumed to be part of women's nature and	被认为是妇女性质的一部分,
173	More explicitly linked to jobs that women tend to hold like teaching or nursing	与妇女往往从事的教学或护理等工作有更明确的联系;
174	While ignored or downplayed when found in jobs where men predominate like management or the law	在管理或法律等男性占主导地位的岗位上被忽略或低估
175	And it has powerful impact	它有强大的影响
176	for example	举例来说,
177	Ben Juster who was a teacher I spoke to and also a private school administrator	Ben Juster,我和他讲过话,也是私立学校的管理员
178	Told me I think each kid needs to be seen like really seen	告诉我,我觉得每个孩子都需要被看成真的
179	I don't think a kid really gets it on a deep level	我觉得一个孩子根本得不到
180	I don't think they are really bitten by the information on or the content until they feel seen by the person they're learning from	我觉得他们不会被信息或内容咬伤直到他们觉得自己正在学习的人
181	Another person I spoke to Simon Jarrett was a primary care physician and he said if I ask the right questions	我和Simon Jarrett谈话的另一个人是初级保健医生他说如果我问对问题
182	I can ask about	我可以问
183	Anxiety stress and sometimes they break down in tears and I'm like, okay.	焦虑的压力,有时他们破碎在眼泪中,我像,好吧。
184	This is really what's going on	事情就是这样
185	other research documents these impacts that my	其他研究文件这些影响,我
186	Informants told me about all the time.	线人一直告诉我
187	So for example, dr.	比如说,Dr.
188	Patient relationships	患者关系
189	We know	我们知道
190	Are more effective than a daily aspirin to ward off heart attacks	比每天的阿司匹林更能防止心脏病发作
191	So Ben and Simon are two of millions whose work relies on relationship	所以,本和西蒙是两百万他们的工作依赖于关系
192	From teachers to therapists to managers to hairdressers	从教师到治疗师、管理人员到理发师
193	by some accounts the US is moving from a thinking economy to a	根据某些说法,美国正在从思维经济转向
194	Feeling economy as many deploy their emotional antenna	感觉经济,像许多部署他们的情感天线
195	To bear witness and reflect back what they understand so that clients patients and students feel seen	做个目击证人反省一下他们所理解的以便病人和学生看到
196	and for many	和许多人
197	Connective labor is profoundly meaningful	连通性劳动具有深远的意义
198	Pamela Moore was an African American teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area	Pamela Moore是旧金山湾区的非裔美国教师
199	And she told me how her own middle school teacher	她告诉我她自己的中学老师
200	Took the time to find out that her selective mutism	花时间才发现她有选择性的变异主义
201	She she didn't talk very much when she was in middle school was a response actually to her family moving	她中学时没怎么说话是她家搬家后的反应
202	Incessantly, she told me I thought I want to be that teacher for my kids in this city	她对我说我想做这个城市的孩子的老师
203	I want to be the teacher that I wanted and that I needed and that I finally got I	我想成为我想要的老师我需要的,我终于得到了我
204	have an entire chapter in this book for	本书中有一整章用于
205	Just parenthetically in which I document these sorts of	我只是用括号来记录这些类型的
206	Two-way effects in which people talk about how they generate	人们谈论如何产生双向效应
207	Motivation in the other but find purpose for themselves	动机在对方,但为自己找到目的
208	They find their work or they do their work to create dignity in the other, but they find their own humanity	他们找到自己的工作,或者为在他人中创造尊严而工作,但他们发现自己的人性
209	They do their work to help the other gain understanding and they end up finding understanding about themselves	他们的工作是为了帮助他人获得理解最后他们找到了对自己的理解
210	however	不过
211	This work is nonetheless threatened by automation and by AI	然而,这项工作受到自动化和大赦国际的威胁。
212	Even therapy one of the professions most dependent on emotional connection between people has seen inroads from automated bots	即使治疗也是最依赖人与人之间情感联系的职业之一已经从自动化的bot中看到进步
213	from the woe bot to	从悲伤的瓶子到
214	Marco as Michael Barbaro who is the	马可作为迈克尔·巴巴罗
215	New York Times journalist who hosts a daily podcast called the daily when he listens at one point he had	纽约时报记者,他每天主持播客节目, 他每天听他说话的时候,
216	an episode where he talked about chat GPT-3 and he asked it a question about like why am I so critical and when the	他问了个问题比如为什么我这么批评
217	Bot gave an answer he were he announced on air.	博特给出了一个答案他被宣布在直播。
218	Ooh, I'm feeling seen	哦,我感觉看到
219	really seen	痷
220	Another example someone I spoke to Tim Bickmore	又一个我跟提姆·比克莫说话的例子
221	Was a Northeastern researcher and he has developed an AI couples counselor and exercise coach and even a palliative care	他是一位东北研究者他培养了一位人工智能夫妇顾问和锻炼教练甚至缓和治疗
222	Consultant the picture you're seeing is something he created called a virtual nurse	指导你看到的照片他创造了一个虚拟护士
223	Which was an AI program to help low-income patients at Boston Medical Center	帮助波士顿医疗中心的低收入病人
224	With discharge procedures and he hoped that it would enable them to understand what are sometimes long and complicated instructions	关于遣散程序,他希望这将使他们能够了解什么有时是冗长和复杂的指示。
225	so the virtual nurse whom coders dubbed Louise or Elizabeth	所以,虚拟护士谁的编码被誉为路易丝或伊丽莎白
226	She's no more than an animated figure on the screen and there's a mechanized voice that asks the viewers if they are fans of the	她不过是一个动画人物在屏幕上有一个机械化的声音问观众他们是不是迷
227	baseball team the Red Sox	红袜队的棒球队
228	Before going over the after hospital care plan, so Bickmore reported that	所以比克莫尔报告说
229	74% of his low-income patients preferred a	74%的低收入病人喜欢
230	Discharge AI agent that he named Louise to a human nurse	释放他给Louise取名为人类护士的AI特工
231	Why?	为什么?
232	Because the program let them go slower than would a busy clinician	因为这个计划让他们比一个忙的临床医生慢
233	One of them told big one patient told Bickmore I	他们中的一个告诉大一个病人告诉比克莫尔我
234	Prefer Louise.	更喜欢露易丝
235	She's better than a doctor.	她比医生强
236	She explains more and doctors are always in a hurry	她解释得更多,医生总是赶时间
237	Providers spend an average of seven minutes with patients at discharge and studies have shown that low	提供商在出院时与病人平均用时7分钟,研究表明这种低水平。
238	Literacy patients need more like an hour	识字病人需要一个小时
239	So the appeal of this kind of judgment-free tech is strong	所以这种无判决技术的吸引力很强
240	Particularly for disadvantaged people	特别是弱势群体
241	But what I want us to ask is how did we get here?	但我想问的是我们是怎么来的?
242	There is something	有东西
243	deeply paradoxical about machines being able to handle the	对于机器能够处理
244	non-mechanistic time needs of	非机械化时间需求
245	The elderly or children or low limit literacy patients the unemployed	老年人或儿童或识字程度低的失业者
246	While humans are rushing about	人类匆匆忙忙
247	Bent to the master of the industrial clock	弯腰到工业钟的主人
248	How did we get to the point where computers are what have time for us?	我们如何到达计算机对我们来说是时间所在的地步?
249	while other human beings do not the answer lies in the degradation of	而其他人的答案不是在于
250	connective labor a	连锁劳工a
251	degradation that began	开始的退化
252	with perhaps good intentions about	也许有良好的意图
253	Improving performance and availability and that has nonetheless reached its nadir	改进绩效和可用性,然而,已经达到了
254	Through pervasive tracking efficiency campaigns and data analytics	通过普遍的跟踪效率运动和数据分析
255	for example	举例来说,
256	Erin Nash was a hospital chaplain whose job was to be with people in some of their worst moments praying	艾琳·纳什是一个医院牧师他的工作是和人们一起在他们最糟糕的时刻祈祷
257	Holding hands even singing with them and I shadowed her on her rounds	牵着手,甚至和他们一起唱歌我跟踪她绕圈
258	And I watched as she managed to create kind of brief peaceful moments with suffering patients and their families	我看着她和受苦的病人及其家人创造出短暂的平静时光
259	again and again	一次又一次
260	Making temporary sanctuary between the thin blue medical curtains	在薄薄的蓝色医疗窗帘之间做临时避难所
261	Despite the buzzing alarms and fluorescent lighting and constant stream of footsteps	尽管警铃响亮荧光照亮脚步不停
262	on the linoleum floors nearby	附近楼层
263	But in addition to consoling the bereaved and calming the anxious	除了安慰死者平息焦虑
264	I was surprised to learn that Erin also	我很惊讶地得知艾琳也
265	Had to fill out three separate charts for every person she visited	她每次访问都要填三个不同的图表
266	Including the standard electronic health record system that many	包括标准电子健康记录系统,许多
267	clinicians in the United States use	美国的临床医生
268	She even carried around a cheat sheet to help her remember the codes	她甚至带着一张骗局表帮她记起密码
269	She murmured under her breath asking for prayer as a resource family together as a resource while she's like hunting and pecking on the keyboard	她深呼吸时喃喃自语地要求祈祷作为资源家庭一起做资源而她就像在键盘上打猎和啄树
270	Nobody was billed for Erin's work.	没人为艾琳的工作开过账单
271	So why was she charting in triplicate?	那她为什么用三重写图呢?
272	Connective labor like Erin's is	像艾琳这样的连结劳工
273	Increasingly being subjected to new systems that try to make it more efficient	日益受到试图提高其效率的新系统的制约
274	measurable and reproducible at best	可衡量和最多可复制
275	firms implement these systems assuming that such interventions will not get in the way of	公司实施这些系统,假定这些干预不会妨碍
276	workers and clients	工人和客户
277	Connecting at worst they ignore or dismiss those connections altogether	最糟糕的是连线他们完全忽略或排除了这些连线
278	Even these complex interpersonal jobs are facing efforts to gather information and assessment data and to introduce technology	即使这些复杂的人际工作也面临着收集信息和评估数据以及引进技术的努力。
279	Moneyball is the title of a best-selling book in the United States that chronicled how data analytics	钱球是美国最畅销书的标题记录了数据分析
280	transformed the national pastime of professional baseball and as I found	改变了全国的职业棒球消遣就像我发现的
281	Moneyball has come for connective labor	钱球是来做连接劳工的
282	Teachers have long complained about standardized testing and surveillance, but it is not just teachers anymore	老师早就抱怨标准化的测试和监督, 但它不再只是老师了
283	I listened to scores of workers in many fields talk about the spread of counting and scripting	我听了很多领域的工人谈论了计算和脚本的传播
284	Like Valerie Clausen a hairdresser in Virginia	就像瓦莱丽·克劳森在弗吉尼亚的美容师
285	She said they set a timer and they tell you okay	她说他们设了计时器告诉你没事
286	You can only talk for this long and if your service time is slowing down then stop the talking and get to doing what you	你只能说这么久如果你的服务时间减慢了那就别说话了做你该做的事
287	Need to do, you know	有必要做,你知道的
288	Sometimes you need to stop and make real-life contact with somebody	有时候你需要停下来和某人进行现实的接触
289	Not just through the mirror if you're into that deep of a conversation and they really don't want that to happen	不只是透过镜子,如果你进入一个深的谈话他们真的不希望发生
290	Everything put together is 22 minutes.	所有东西都是22分钟的
291	That's all you got.	这就是你所有的。
292	It doesn't matter what	这不重要
293	22 minutes	22分钟
294	We can certainly have sympathy for the goals underlying these changes	我们当然可以同情这些变化背后的目标
295	research finds that	研究发现:
296	Systems like checklists and manuals can confer greater legitimacy	诸如核对表和手册等制度可赋予更大的合法性
297	upon many kinds of service work and hedge our bets	在很多类型的服务工作上和我们的赌注
298	against incompetence and	反对无能和
299	Discrimination while also protecting workers from demanding or chaotic clients	歧视,同时保护工人免受要求或混乱的客户之害
300	standards often come with transparency and	标准往往具有透明度和
301	predictability and they allow for greater coordination and mobility and efficiency and in part	可预测性和可预测性可以加强协调、调动和效率,并在一定程度上
302	These changes aim for a society where getting a good teacher or doctor or hairdresser is less dependent on	这些变化旨在建立一个社会,在社会中,获得好教师、医生或理发师的依赖程度较低。
303	Being lucky or affluent yet research also shows that scripting of interactive service work	幸运或富裕但研究也表明,互动服务工作的脚本化
304	threatens creativity and autonomy	威胁创造性和自主性
305	transforms clients into standardized	将客户转变为标准化
306	Industrial objects and demoralizes workers alienating them from their own feeling	工业目标和士气低落的工人疏远他们自己的感觉
307	More than 50% of physicians say they are burnt out by data entry in a Gallup survey	超过50%的医生说,在盖洛普调查中,他们被数据输入烧毁
308	About half of teachers and nurses reported experiencing high levels of job-related stress	约一半的教师和护士报告说,与工作有关的压力很大
309	Changes in the way that we organize connective labor are extracting enormous costs	我们组织连锁劳工方式的变化正在产生巨大的成本
310	If there is a battle over the systematization of feeling work	如果在感觉工作系统化上发生战斗
311	We may have already conceded it when it comes to teachers and low-wage service workers like Valerie	我们可能已经承认了当涉及到教师和低工资的服务工人像瓦莱丽
312	But scripting and counting is invading other	但脚本和计数正在入侵其他
313	relational professional work even therapy perhaps the best the last readout of sentiment	关系性专业工作甚至治疗也许是最好的情绪的最后解读
314	Insurance companies decide what kind of therapy warrants reimbursement	保险公司决定何种治疗需要报销
315	They dictate the content focus of particular sessions and they limit the number of sessions for a given disorder	它们决定了特定会议的内容重点,并且限制特定混乱的会话次数
316	some counseling centers are	一些咨询中心
317	requiring therapists to	要求治疗师
318	administer surveys	管理调查
319	offering clients graphs of particular clinicians impact when Sarah Merced a	提供特定临床医生影响的客户图表
320	Therapist at a veterans hospital talked about the mandated research	退伍军人医院的治疗师谈到了授权的研究
321	Mandated treatment plans that were decreed from above.	授权的治疗计划,由上述法令颁布。
322	I was struck by her wistfulness	我被她的顽强打击
323	She said I guess my wish as a clinician would be to be able to use some actual clinical thinking	她说,我想我作为一个临床医生的愿望是能够使用一些实际的临床思维
324	She said I went to school for many years	她说我上学很多年了
325	So to kind of figure out what what best treatments work for most people and so it would be lovely	所以想一想什么是最好的治疗对大多数人来说,这将是可爱的。
326	To be able to choose when to use these tools and when not versus having the mandated	能够选择何时使用这些工具,何时不使用这些工具与是否授权
327	The industrial model has become so dominant even in these spaces where deep feeling has profound impact	即使在深层感觉有深远影响的空间,工业模式也变得如此占主导地位。
328	That it is something of a cultural juggernaut	说它是文化界的
329	Shaping how people think and talk about value in my research	塑造人们如何思考和谈论我研究中的价值
330	I watched as even connective labor practitioners found themselves trapped	我看着连连锁劳工都发现自己被困住了
331	Within its interpretive framework forced to articulate their contributions and their constraints	在其解释框架内,被迫阐明它们的贡献和制约因素
332	however reluctantly	不过很不情愿
333	With its alien grammar	用它的异形语法
334	This sort of influence was evident when I talked to Alan Krupner who was actually the supervisor of the chaplain	我和阿兰·克鲁普纳谈话时,这种影响是很明显的, 他实际上是牧师的主管
335	I talked about earlier Aaron Nash	我之前说过艾伦·纳什
336	The most important reason for all the charting that Aaron Nash did	亚伦·纳什所画图的最重要原因
337	He said was that someday the hospital was going to decide the future of the chaplain service and that data	他说总有一天医院会决定牧师服务的未来
338	Supporting what they did would help chaplains steer that future	支持他们所做的一切会帮助牧师们引导未来
339	He said I felt like chaplains needed to learn how to count something because we live in a world increasingly driven by evidence	他说,我觉得牧师们需要学习如何计算东西,因为我们生活在一个越来越受证据驱动的世界
340	The question is are we going to be the ones who say these things or is someone else going to tell us that we drive?	问题是我们是说这些话的还是别人会告诉我们我们开车?
341	The bus so you're going to do what we tell you to do	公交车让你照我们的话去做
342	The chaplains may someday be able to convince health care administrators that their work was important	牧师也许有一天能说服医疗管理人员他们的工作很重要
343	But to do that, he said we need to get over ourselves	但是为了做到这一点,他说我们需要克服自己
344	Alan's argument is one thing	艾伦的论点是一回事
345	It's a statement about the inevitability of quantitative data deciding the place of a spiritual team in the hospital	这是关于数量数据不可避免性的声明决定精神团队在医院的位置
346	It attests to medicine's institutional muscle as well as the intellectual hegemony of evidence based	它证明了医学的内在力量以及基于证据的知识霸权
347	Thinking in his world, but his language	在他的世界里思考,但他的语言
348	chaplains need to learn how to count something and	牧师们需要学习如何计算
349	We need to get over ourselves with its kind of casual mockery of chaplains as number-averse	我们需要克服那种对牧师的嘲弄作为数字反感
350	feelers is another evidence of a certain cultural supremacy of	感觉者是另一种证明某种文化上的至高无上
351	Standardization but standardization and the drive to increase productivity among these workers is worsening their performance	标准化但标准化和提高生产力的动力使工人的业绩恶化。
352	One doctor told me I don't invite people to open up because I don't have time and that is such a	有个医生告诉我我不请人开门因为我没有时间
353	Disservice to the patients.	对病人有害
354	My hand is on the doorknob.	我的手放在门把手上
355	I'm typing	我打字了,我打字了,我打字了
356	I'm like, let's get you the meds and get you out the door because I have a ton of other patients to see this morning	我很喜欢,让我们得到你的药并带你出门因为我有一吨其他病人看今天上午
357	You know everyone deserves as much time as they need and that's what would really help people is to have that time	你知道每个人都应该有他们需要的时间那就是真正能帮助人们的时间
358	But it's not profitable	却不赚钱
359	Technologists argue that social emotional AI	技术学家认为社会情感AI
360	addresses problems of human performance a human access and	解决人类业绩问题
361	Availability which is a bit like the old joke about the guests at a resort	这有点像度假村客人的老笑话
362	Complaining about the food being terrible and in such small portions	抱怨食物是可怕的和如此小的一部分
363	It is certainly true that human connective labor is fraught full of judgment and risk of	当然,人类的连结劳动充满了判断力和风险。
364	Disrecognition and that and I heard that from many people including for example	我从很多人那里听到的包括...
365	Pamela the teacher who repeatedly faced kind of	帕梅拉,那个老师一再面对一种
366	We might say it bad connective labor until she met the middle school teacher who finally listened to her	我们可能说这是不好的连接性劳动,直到她遇见了中学老师,他终于听了她的话
367	But the working conditions of connective labor	但联系劳工的工作条件
368	shape people's capacity to see the other	塑造人们与他人接触的能力
369	Veronica	维罗妮卡
370	Agostini is a person I spoke to who demonstrates for us some of the costs of	Agostini是我和他交谈过的人他为我们展示了一些代价
371	social emotional AI	社会情感AI
372	She was a young white woman in San Francisco and she was hired as an online coach	她是旧金山一个年轻的白人女子她被聘为在线教练
373	For a therapy app startup to help people connect with the app	帮助人们与应用程序连接
374	She may not have been doing therapy, but as Veronica described her work, it sounded more and more familiar	她可能没有做心理治疗, 但维罗妮卡描述她的工作,听起来越来越熟悉
375	She said basically what happened is you talk to people what you talk to someone one time and then you know if they were	她说发生的事基本上是你跟别人说话你和别人说话的时候你知道他们是不是
376	Interested and you did a good job on that first call you would talk to them every week for sometimes like 12 weeks	感兴趣,你做了一个好工作在第一个电话你每周会与他们交谈有时像12周
377	I talked to some people for like months	我跟一些人聊了几个月
378	Some aspects of the job made it clear that it was not therapy	工作的某些方面表明,这不是治疗
379	When clients mastered their problem often they would just drop the app	当客户端掌握了自己的问题时,他们就会放弃应用程序
380	Behavior more akin to closing a self-help book than it was to the sometimes lengthy	比起有时很长的关上自助书
381	experience of ceasing a therapy relationship	中止治疗关系的经验
382	Furthermore, Veronica said there were rules in place to keep the coaches from acting as mental health professionals	此外,维罗妮卡说,有规定不让教练担任精神卫生专业人员
383	So you were allowed to reflect what was in the program?	所以,你被允许反映节目的内容?
384	She told me but you could never give advice you obviously could never make a diagnosis	她告诉我,但你永远不能给出建议你显然永远不能做出诊断
385	And you couldn't you know tell them what to do or anything like that	你根本不知道要告诉他们怎么做或者什么
386	But the rules dividing their work from therapy seemed more for the coaches than for the clients	但把治疗区分开来的规则对教练来说比对客户来说要多
387	Some of whom were happy to think of the coaches as private counselors	有些人乐于把教练们当成私人顾问
388	She said you genuinely had an impact on people and you talked to them every day and you saw how things were for them	她说你真的对人有影响你每天都和他们交谈你看见他们的生活
389	I loved talking to all these people.	我喜欢跟这些人说话
390	She told me I loved feeling like I had an impact	她告诉我我喜欢感觉自己有影响
391	She also suffered from burnout it was so hard to set boundaries	她也受尽煎熬很难确定界限
392	She told me I would think about the clients after I went home and there was no training on how to deal with that	她告诉我回家后我会考虑客户也没有训练如何处理
393	yet	现在
394	Despite both the profound meaning of her work and the emotional wallop that it delivered to the coaches her own	尽管她的工作有深刻的意义以及她给导师们的情感
395	Language actually joins in minimizing her effort.	语言实际上与她的努力最小化。
396	I'm sorry minimizing her effect	对不起尽量减轻她的影响
397	She said I loved feeling like I had an impact	她说我喜欢感觉自己有影响
398	But she quickly followed that with even though it was really them that was doing, you know, they were doing all the work	但是她很快跟随她,尽管他们真的在做, 你知道,他们正在做所有的工作。
399	You know, I wasn't really doing something anything.	你知道,我真的没有做任何事情。
400	I was just cheering them on and helping them work through some hard things sometimes	我只是在给他们欢呼并帮助他们工作一些艰难的事情有时
401	thus the firm maintained that Veronica was not doing therapy and	因此,该公司坚持认为维罗妮卡没有进行治疗,
402	Benefited from that claim by not having to train hire or pay for skilled workers	由于不必培训雇用或支付技术工人的工资而从这一主张中受益
403	While extracting the value that their witnessing helped create	在挖掘他们见证所创造的价值的同时
404	the clients	客户
405	came and went as if they were not doing therapy treating Veronica as an as if she were an extension of the app and	来去去去仿佛他们没有做治疗对待维罗妮卡仿佛她是一个应用的延伸
406	Even Veronica asserted that she was not doing therapy	甚至维罗妮卡都说她没有做治疗
407	their collective insistence	他们的集体坚持
408	rendered invisible the work she actually did to witness the clients needs and struggles and the price she paid for it in	将她为见证客户的需求和挣扎所做的工作以及她为此付出的代价
409	emotional residue that their trauma left behind and	他们的创伤留下的情感残余
410	This invisibilization is something that AI does in other fields as well	这种隐形是大赦国际在其他领域也做的事情。
411	we know for example the armies of people who	譬如,我们知道人们的军队
412	identify	识别
413	You know data for machine learning, you know, this is a bagel and that is a dog	你知道机器学习的数据, 你知道,这是百吉饼,那是狗
414	That's something that other researchers have documented again and again	这是其他研究者一次又一次记录的
415	But here we see it's happening also in	但这里我们看到它也发生在
416	Connective labor	连通劳工
417	Veronica also faced a new existential task	维罗妮卡也面临着新的生存任务
418	Proving that she was a human being a lot of people were like, are you a robot?	证明她是人很多人都喜欢你是机器人吗?
419	She told me I asked her how she countered that impression	她告诉我,我问她如何反驳那个印象
420	I basically just tried to small talk with them ask another question	我基本上只是想和他们谈谈问另一个问题
421	Maybe share a little bit about myself as if it was appropriate	也许分享一下我自己就好象是合适的
422	Other people told me about this problem and they distinguished themselves	别人告诉我这个问题他们很杰出
423	From machines through their capacity to decode	从机器通过他们的解码能力
424	hidden parts of humans	人类隐藏的部分
425	So even if AI might elicit more secrets from people it would not be able to understand or manage	因此,即使AI可能会从人们那里得到更多的秘密,它也无法理解或管理.
426	The secrets it was told one therapist grace told me she says as an example	有人告诉我,一个治疗师的恩典告诉我,她说,作为一个例子
427	She told me about a client who lied frequently and she said and so, you know, we have a societal judgment around lying	她告诉我一个经常撒谎的客户她说,所以,你知道, 我们有一个社会判断关于说谎
428	But once I established well, this is a weird pattern that I don't usually see then I went into what's useful about it to this person	但一旦我建立好, 这是一种奇怪的模式, 我通常不会看到... ...然后我走进什么有用的...
429	And the answer was that lying was the way her client made sure	答案是说谎是她的客户确保
430	Quote he has his own mind.	引证他自心.
431	She said he merges with everyone and so when he lies	她说他和每个人合并所以当他撒谎时
432	It's when he's feeling like there's no him	当他觉得没有他的时候
433	Grace said and then she paused see a computer do that	格蕾丝说,然后她暂停看着电脑这样做
434	She positioned herself against a computer by demonstrating her empathic insight	她通过展示她的情感洞察力将自己定位在电脑上
435	Into this mysterious and shame-ridden pattern and a third way that I found that people apparently	进入这种神秘和羞耻的图案还有第三种方式我发现人们显然
436	Demonstrated their humanness was through human error and this was particularly evident for connective labor	证明他们的人性是人为的错误这一点对于连结劳工来说尤为明显
437	practitioners working in	从业人员
438	You know highly systematized environments where mistakes were like flickers of authenticity	你知道高度系统化的环境错误就像真实性的闪烁
439	VA	瓦纳
440	veteran hospital	退伍军人医院
441	Therapists gave many examples of how mistakes they had made actually led to more progress and rapport	治疗师们举了许多例子,说明他们所犯的错误实际上如何导致更多的进步和关系。
442	With their clients when they rectified them	当他们的客户纠正他们
443	Mistakes seemed to convey to clients or students that they were getting a second look that they were worth seeing correctly and that what?	错误似乎传达给客户或学生, 他们得到的第二眼, 他们值得正确看到,什么?
444	Was doing the seeing was a human being and not a robot in essence these people's connective labor	看见的人不是机器人这些人的连结劳动
445	Normally the quintessential human activity was not enough to convey their humanness	通常,典型的人类活动不足以传达其人性
446	Which Veronica had to verify for a clientele accustomed to machines	维罗妮卡必须核实一个习惯机器的客户
447	finally	终于
448	Veronica found may have found the work humbling and moving and powerful, but she left after four years because the firm	维罗妮卡发现的作品可能摇晃,动人,强大, 但她四年后离开因为律所
449	ignoring the emotional content of the coaching job	忽略辅导工作的情感内容
450	Increased the client roster to untenable levels.	将客户名册增加到无法维持的水平。
451	She said toward the end	她说最后
452	They were trying to model everything using algorithms and models and it's just like you can't account for the actual emotion of the bird	他们试图用算法和模型模拟一切就像你无法解释鸟类的情感
453	emotional burden of the job in those moments	在那些时刻,工作的情感负担
454	Already convinced the coaches were nothing but handmaidens to the app the firm piled on new clients	已经说服教练们除了女仆之外什么都不是了公司堆在新客户身上的应用软件
455	heedlessly	轻率地
456	Veronica shows us one version of AI in this terrain in which humans work behind the scenes	维罗妮卡向我们展示了人类在幕后工作的地形下的AI版本.
457	To create the promise of a mechanized connective labor without human judgment	创造没有人类判断的机械化连接劳工的希望
458	But there is another version that is out there in which AI and humans don't overlap or hide behind each other so much	但还有另一个版本在那里,AI和人类没有重叠或隐藏背后这么多
459	but they're put to different uses and some technologists argue that feeling and thinking are	但他们有不同的用途一些技术专家认为感觉和思考是
460	Distinct and separable and if computers are for thinking humans are for feeling if robots take on medical	如果电脑是用来思考人类是用来感受的如果机器人接受医疗
461	Diagnostics, for example physicians could become more about being present with the patient one administrator told me	诊断,比如说,医生可能更喜欢和病人在一起一个管理员告诉我
462	Medical practitioners talk about wanting to help people rather than being robots	医生说想帮助人而不是做机器人
463	She said concentrating on the emotional tie with the patient the interpersonal stuff that no machine will do	她说,专注于与病人的情感联系人际关系的东西,没有机器会做
464	She said could be their chance	她说可能是他们的机会
465	This argument epitomizes how AI is most often sold as a way of freeing up	这个论点概括了AI最常被卖出去的方式
466	humans for more for more meaningful work	人类为了更有意义的工作
467	The the consulting firm McKinsey for example has argued that it is far more likely that AI will change jobs rather than eradicate them	例如,McKinsey咨询公司认为,AI更可能改变工作,而不是消除工作。
468	As well as create new ones that we cannot predict and the firm noted that AI might free up	除了创造出我们无法预测的新事物之外,律师事务所还指出,大赦国际可能释放
469	For tasks that they called core to the human experience like creativity or sensing emotions	他们称之为人类经验的核心任务比如创造力或感知情感
470	I visited an experimental school in the San Francisco Bay area which sought to put this into practice	我参观了旧金山湾区的一所实验学校, 试图把它付诸实施
471	With kids using computer programs for customized lessons in reading and math and more and the adults there for the relationship	孩子们用电脑程序来定制的阅读和数学课程和更多的和那里的成年人的关系
472	Students had spreadsheets that organized their day which was broken up into independent study or goal time and	学生们有电子表格组织他们的一天, 被拆分为独立学习或目标时间
473	Chunks devoted to different specialized apps like quill for grammar or tinker a coding program	专用于不同专业的应用,如语法的毛笔或编织器的编码程序
474	And they also pursued what they called passion projects of their own design	他们也追求自己设计的激情计划
475	The kids may have spent the morning learning from apps, but they were not entirely on their own	孩子们可能早上从应用中学习,但他们并不完全靠自己
476	Advisors sat in a central area with their computers open and met with the kids one-on-one	顾问们坐在中央电脑打开和孩子们一对一见面
477	Once a week for 45 minutes keeping track of their progress	每周一次,45分钟,跟踪他们的进展
478	They were in charge of the relationship	他们负责关系
479	Although those sessions sometimes looked like a lot of data crunching with advisor and student hunched over	虽然这些课有时看起来像很多数据与顾问和学生直觉过来。
480	Computers keeping track of their progress in a session typical of the one I observed ones	电脑在一次我所观察的会议中跟踪他们的进展
481	As I observed an advisor Vivian typed into her computer as Jackson a very quiet Chinese-American boy of about	当我看到一个顾问薇薇安打入她的电脑时杰克逊是一个非常安静的美国华裔男孩
482	13 sat next to her looking at his and in their meeting they spent a lot of time talking about	13个坐在她旁边看着他,在他们的会面中他们花了很多时间谈论
483	Deliverables which is kind of business school speak for a measurable outcome	商业学校一类的可交付成果能说明可衡量的结果
484	But in this way, but in this case a way to signify and record Jackson's progress	但这样,但在这种情况下, 一种表示和记录杰克逊进步的方式
485	So for example Vivian says you did six hours of ixl time	比如薇薇安说你做了六小时的时间
486	Let's put that in there	把那个放进去
487	Is there a deliverable for language and Jackson says just go to class reading comprehension and write essays write essays	杰克逊说去上课读懂写散文
488	Vivian says how many Jackson says three Vivian three essays.	薇薇安说有多少杰克逊说三篇薇薇安三篇散文.
489	That's a deliverable.	这是可交付品。
490	Did you put in your labster score?	你把实验室的分数放进去了吗?
491	What was that in animal genetics?	这在动物遗传学上是什么?
492	I got a 79	我有一个79
493	Let's stick that in at the same time these sessions could involve long periods of seeing and being seen	让我们坚持,在同一时间这些会议可能涉及长时间的看到和被看到
494	So one day for example	比如说有一天
495	I watched as an eight-year-old Asian American girl named Kim	我看着一个八岁的美国女孩叫金
496	Met with her advisor Shelley a white woman and they gazed together at a computer screen that displayed an excel sheet	遇见她的顾问雪莱一个白人女人, 他们凝视在一起在电脑屏幕上显示一个优秀的表
497	Summarizing Kim's latest goals and accomplishments and with the girl sitting next to her Shelley asked so in programming	总结金的最新目标和成就还有坐在她旁边的女生在编程时问过
498	What do you want to do this term?	你想做什么这个学期?
499	Honestly, I'm not sure Kim replied.	老实说,我不确定金会回答
500	She thoughtfully played with this long black ponytail	她深思熟虑地玩弄这长长的黑马尾巴
501	Well, is there anything you're interested in Shelley asked you could combine it with your passion project	你对雪莱有什么兴趣吗? 你可以把它和你的激情计划结合起来
502	What's your passion project and Kim mentioned the business?	你的激情项目是什么金提到生意?
503	She was starting we were in Silicon Valley after all and how it was based on an invention that she called a genius idea and	她开始我们在硅谷毕竟,它是如何基于一个发明, 她称一个天才的想法,
504	Shelley listened patiently murmuring little sounds of a scent and encouragement	雪莱耐心地听了小声的气味和鼓励
505	There was all the time in the world for them to figure out a customized plan for programming	全世界都有时间让他们想出一个定制的编程计划
506	The teachers at this school cheered their new freedom to concentrate on offering one-on-one help to those who needed it	这所学校的老师欢呼着他们的新自由集中精力为需要的人提供一对一的帮助
507	But while it seems clear that automation will generate jobs and industries that we cannot foresee	但显然自动化将创造我们无法预见的就业机会和产业
508	Just like McKinsey and others are telling us the AI will free us up language	就像麦肯锡等人告诉我们人工智能会释放我们的语言
509	Seems strikingly optimistic to me it is possible	在我看来很乐观,这是可能的
510	with that with the cost savings of automating work employers could keep the same number of employees and	通过实现工作自动化而节省的费用,雇主可以保留同样数量的雇员,
511	Instead imbue human jobs with newly meaningful tasks	反而将人类工作纳入新有意义的工作
512	But against a long history of cutting people wherever possible to save labor costs	但与长久以来为了节省劳动成本尽可能削减人口的做法相反
513	This thinking seems quite naive	这个想法看起来很天真
514	in a prime example of this in Oakland an hour away from the experimental school	在奥克兰的实验学校一个小时的路程里
515	low-income students of color were being taught math by videos and	低收入的有色人种学生通过视频和
516	In 2023 as we can see here a Mississippi school district reported that students were learning geometry	2023年,这里可以看到密西西比州的一个校区报道说,学生们正在学习几何学
517	Spanish and high school science via a software program with a human teacher in the next town	西班牙语和高中科学,通过软件程序,在下一个城镇与一位人类教师
518	Whom students could try to consult if they got stuck the devaluation of care underlies its automation	学生们如果被卡住,可以尝试咨询护理的贬值是其自动化的基础
519	Technologists take aim at these jobs because they don't respect the interpersonal work that they rely upon	技术专家以这些工作为目标,因为他们不尊重他们所依赖的人际工作。
520	they view the workers as replaceable or their clients as undeserving and	他们认为工人是可以替代的,或者他们的客户是没有资格的;
521	They consider and or they consider their replacement by technology a more politically	他们认为或认为用技术取代技术更具有政治性
522	palatable solution	简单易懂的解决办法
523	Than improving them through staffing ratios or pay the freeing up	而不是通过人员配置比率来改善这些比率或支付解职费
524	argument	参数
525	actually underscores a	实际强调a
526	long-standing bifurcation for almost two centuries the split between feeling and	近两个世纪以来感情和感情的分化
527	rationality	理性
528	connectedness and autonomy	联系和自主
529	Nature and technology has anchored gendered	自然和技术将性别平等作为基础
530	identities and inequalities with feminist scholars all the way back to Simone de Beauvoir	女权主义学者的身份和不平等一直追溯到Simone de Beauvoir
531	rejecting the inevitability of that forging and	拒绝这种伪造的必然性,
532	highlighting the social relations that create it, but now	突出创造它的社会关系,但现在
533	Technologists themselves are trying to shift that split onto the human connection itself	技术学家自己也在试图把分裂到人类的连接上
534	Excuse me onto the human condition itself	打扰一下人类状况本身
535	And this is actually where my hope lies if there is any in this story because if feeling is for humans	这其实是我的希望所在如果这个故事有任何, 因为如果感觉是人类
536	Then perhaps we can start to value it more	那也许我们可以开始重视它
537	This was brought home to me a few years ago when I met a radiologist at a social gathering	几年前我遇到一个放射科医生在一个社交聚会上
538	for someone who follows debates about artificial intelligence	对于关注人工智能辩论的人
539	Artificial intelligence it felt a little bit like meeting a polar bear floating on an ice flow	人工智能感觉有点像遇到一只浮在冰流上的北极熊
540	Radiology is one of those professions that	放射学是那些职业之一
541	Futurists and pundits say is likely to shed a lot of jobs because AI has already done	未来主义者和知识分子说很可能会因为AI已经做了很多工作
542	demonstrated impressive pattern recognition in reading x-rays for anomalies and	在读取X射线异常时显示令人印象深刻的模式识别
543	The doctor told me he was working at the national level to try to change the way radiologists do their work	医生告诉我,他正在国家一级工作试图改变放射科医生的工作方式
544	So that they would no longer simply discuss x-ray results with fellow physicians	这样他们就不会跟医生们讨论X光结果了
545	The only way out of the path of the oncoming AI train	离开即将到来的AI列车的唯一出路
546	He said was to make radiology more patient facing to bring to bring radiologists into the examination room with the patient	他说要把放射科的病人带到检查室去
547	Radiologists need to become what he called Sherpas for the images.	放射学家需要成为他所称的夏尔帕斯的图像.
548	They read	他们读了
549	helping interpret and explain results to patients directly	帮助直接向患者解释和解释结果
550	Otherwise, the radiologist told me the field is in real danger	否则,放射科医生告诉我田地很危险
551	We're trying not to be the low-hanging fruit who talks to patients directly	我们不想成为那些直接和病人交谈的低调果实
552	primary care physicians	初级保健医生
553	yet radiologists earn salaries almost twice and sometimes three times as much as	但放射科医生的工资几乎是
554	primary care physicians on average as	平均初级保健医生
555	I talked with the radiologist	我跟放射科医生谈过了
556	It was suddenly clear to me that primary care might soon enjoy some real bargaining power over these	突然间我明白初级护理可能很快拥有一些真正的讨价还价能力
557	subspecialties and	分专业和
558	No less important the radiologist's comments indicate that AI and automation have the potential to destabilize	同样重要的是,放射学家的评论表明,AI和自动化有可能破坏稳定。
559	Long-standing gendered bifurcation of feelings and technology	感情与技术的长期两性化
560	solidarity and rationality if	团结和理性,如果
561	Machines are that which are charged with the rational the data-driven the technical	机器是用来合理数据驱动的技术
562	What's left for humans is the emotional the connected the interpersonal all that used to be identified as feminine before?	人类剩下的是情感人际间的联系所有以前被确认为女性的?
563	It remains to be seen whether the new value put on interpersonal	是否赋予人际关系的新价值仍有待观察。
564	Connectedness can upend the gender cues and job cues that have benefited radiologists before	连接可以提升性别提示和工作提示,使放射学家受益
565	AI could	大赦国际可以
566	destabilize a central pillar in gender identity and inequalities	破坏性别认同和不平等的核心支柱的稳定
567	through a feminization of the human we are in the middle of a	通过女性化的人类我们处于一个中间
568	Depersonalization crisis and in the middle of this crisis being seen is already in too short supply	人格解体危机和这一危机的中期已经太少
569	the sense of being invisible is	隐形的感觉是
570	Widespread animating working-class rage in the United States and abroad and rife	在美国、国外和各地广泛出现的工人阶级愤怒
571	Within the social crises of what has been called deaths of despair	在所谓的绝望死亡的社会危机中
572	Suicide and overdose deaths that have lowered life expectancy here while many of us	自杀和过量死亡降低了这里的预期寿命而我们很多人
573	During kovat in particular remain close to family and friends	特别是在科瓦特期间,仍然与家人和朋友关系密切
574	There is one kind of relationship that has changed the weak ties of	有一种关系改变了弱的关系
575	Civic life and commerce yet research shows that these ties	公民生活和商业的研究表明,这些联系
576	help to knit together our communities and contribute to our health and well-being a	帮助把我们的社区联系起来,为我们的健康和福祉作出贡献。
577	UK study found that people who talked to their baristas in Starbucks	英国的研究发现和星巴克的男律师交谈的人
578	derived well-being benefits more than those who breezed right by them and the authors titled their study is	比那些轻而易举地从他们那里得到的福利更有利,而作者们称之为:
579	efficiency overrated	高估效率
580	Human connections matter even when they are not our closest bonds	人际联系即使不是我们最亲近的纽带
581	The solution that big tech offers to our depersonalization crisis is what they call	解决我们人格解体危机的解决方案是他们所说的
582	personalization as in	个性化
583	personalized education or personalized health and these advances seek to counter the	个性化教育或个性化健康,这些进步旨在打击
584	alienating invisibility of standardization of being part of an	疏远标准化的隐形性作为
585	Indifferentiated mass in these efforts you are seen by machines	在这些努力中无差别的质量,你看到的是机器
586	But what if it is important for us and for our social fabric not just to be seen	但是,如果这对我们和我们的社会结构很重要不只是让人看到
587	But to be seen by other people in that case	但被别人看到
588	The working conditions of jobs like those of Simon Jenna Veronica and others.	像西蒙·珍娜·维罗妮卡等人的工作工作条件。
589	I've spoken about today are	我今天说的就是
590	consequential	结果
591	Connective labor is increasingly being subjected to new systems that try to make it more predictable measurable	连通性劳动力越来越多地受到新系统的制约,这些系统试图使其更可预测地可以衡量
592	efficient and reproducible	高效率和可复制
593	the degradation of these jobs their reduction from a kind of artisanal emotional	这些工作从一种个体情感上减少
594	craftwork to a set of easily reproducible steps	制作一套易于复制的步骤
595	actually acts as a slippery slope to their automation through AI and apps like woebot a	通过人工智能和类似Wabbot a的应用软件
596	Therapy app or tradeify the personality test that McDonald's uses in hiring	治疗应用或交易麦当劳在雇佣时使用的人格测试
597	But there is another path in my book	但我书里还有一条路
598	I outline what I call a social architecture and I document what organizations have in common that are doing it, right?	我概述了我所谓的社会结构,我记录了各组织在这样做时有哪些共同点,对吗?
599	That support connective labor rather than relying on individual heroes to do it anyway despite unsustainable working conditions	尽管工作条件不可持续,但这种支持是连锁劳动,而不是依靠个人英雄来做。
600	Social architecture includes material resources like time and space	社会结构包括时间和空间等物质资源
601	But also what I call a riddle a relational design	但也叫谜语关系设计
602	such as the leaders and mentors and peer groups and also a connective culture a	诸如领导人、导师和同伴团体,以及连通文化等等
603	Shared set of beliefs and practices that affect how people are able to connect excuse me to conduct	一套共同的信仰和做法影响人们如何连接原谅我的行为
604	Relationship and these factors combine to shape what it feels like to do connective labor	关系和这些因素结合塑造了做连锁劳动的感觉
605	Whether it is sustainable or a form of servitude	无论是可持续还是奴役形式
606	new policies to address client rosters and overload would also help as	处理客户名册和超载的新政策也会有所帮助,因为
607	Would careful attention to data entry requirements and the imposition of new technology new technologies that mediate	将认真注意数据输入要求和采用新的技术来调解
608	Relationships at work.	工作上的关系
609	I am NOT advocating eliminating all systems or standards which some of my interviewees found useful	我并不主张取消所有被采访者认为有用的系统或标准。
610	But we should pay close attention to the impact systems have on connective labor the engine	但是,我们应该密切关注影响系统对连接的劳动力,引擎
611	Powering the outcomes we value like learning and healing	推动我们珍视的成果,如学习和治愈
612	One solution might be to protect	一个解决办法可能是保护
613	Feeling jobs from the data collection that threatens to overwhelm them such as that plaguing primary care physicians or teachers	从数据收集中感受到工作可能压倒他们,如困扰初级保健医生或教师的工作
614	one medical assistant I spoke to acted as a scribe and	我找了一位医生助理做书记
615	She treasured having more responsibility	她珍爱更多责任
616	But the real advantage was in the relationships she witnessed she said	但真正的优势是她亲眼目睹的感情
617	So that's one benefit because the provider this is her talking because the providers not looking into the computer and scrambling through different tabs	所以,这是一个好处,因为提供商这是她的谈话因为提供商不查看计算机和通过不同的标签
618	The provider takes all their time looking at the patient, you know, I'm here.	供养者花时间看病人,你知道,我在这里。
619	I'm talking to you	我在跟你说话呢
620	I'm listening to what you're saying	我听你说的话
621	So not all	所以还不是全部
622	Technology not all systems are bad	技术不是所有系统都不好
623	However, I want us to be careful here	不过,我想我们在这里小心点
624	We also need to regulate the AI industry so that innovators weigh their impact on human connections	我们还需要管理人工智能行业,以便创新者权衡其对人际联系的影响。
625	At the very least social emotional AI should be labeled as such	至少社会情感AI应该被贴上这样的标签
626	So we know when we are talking to a robot and can recognize and choose human-to-human connection	所以我们知道当我们跟机器人交谈时可以识别和选择人与人之间的联系
627	Ultimately, however	不过最终
628	We all need to be more aware of the unique value of human connection for our social health and	我们都需要更清楚地认识到人类联系对我们的社会健康和
629	the peril it faces	它面临的危险
630	AI is often sold as a way of freeing up humans for other often more meaningful work	AI经常被卖掉,作为解放人类从事其他往往更有意义的工作的一种方式.
631	yet connective labor is among the most profoundly meaningful work that humans do and	但连结劳动是人类最有意义的工作之一
632	Technologists are nonetheless gunning for it if we continue to prioritize	然而,如果我们继续优先考虑,技术专家正在为此而战。
633	Efficiency over relationship we degrade jobs that have the potential to forge	在关系上的效率,我们贬低那些有潜力的工作
634	Profound meaning between people and along the way make them more susceptible to automation and AI	人与人之间以及沿途的深刻意义使他们更容易被自动化和AI所感染.
635	Creating a new kind of haves and have nots those divided by access to other people's attention	创造出一种新的财富而不是那些被别人的注意力所分裂的财富
636	while humans are imperfect and	人类是完美的
637	Judgmental to be sure we also know that human attention and care are a source of purpose and	判断性地确保我们也知道,人类的关心和照顾是目的和目的的来源。
638	Dignity the seeds of belongingness and bedrock of our communities	尊重我们社区的归属和基石的种子
639	Yet we tuck that knowledge away in service to an industry that contributes to our growing	然而,我们把知识塞进服务给一个有助于我们成长的产业
640	depersonalization	人格解体
641	What is at risk is more than an individual or his or her job?	除了个人或工作之外,还有什么危险?
642	But our social cohesion the connections that are a mutual achievement between and among	但我们的社会凝聚力是相互之间和相互之间相互实现的联系。
643	humans	人类
644	Thank you.	谢谢
645	Thank you so much professor pure for the wonderful presentation and also the	感谢您如此纯洁的教授精彩的演讲,还有
646	very insightful sharing of your	非常有见地分享你的
647	not only the findings, but your	不仅是发现,还有你的
648	Your experience and as a as a human being during your field work	在你的实地工作里你的经验和作为一个人类
649	That itself.	这本身。
650	It's a it's a vivid case of how connective works	这是一个生动的例子如何连接工作
651	Value why connective works valuable for not only	为何连线性作品不仅价值高
652	researcher	研究员
653	Academy, but also for	学院,但也为
654	for ordinary human being	为普通人
655	Thank you so much for sharing that then for next to 15 to 20 minutes.	非常感谢你分享了接下来的15到20分钟。
656	We will have	我们会有
657	discussion from Professor Sean Bell	肖恩·贝尔教授的讨论
658	Professor is the director of a social	教授是社长
659	anthropology of	人类学
660	economic department if I'm correct	经济部,如果我是对的
661	Hi, Professor Sean, can you hear us?	嗨,肖恩教授,你能听到我们说话吗?
662	Yes, I can you well, okay, so	是的,我可以让你好,好吧,所以
663	You have 15 to 20 minutes.	你有15到20分钟
664	Does that sound good?	听起来好吗?
665	Yeah, thank you very much.	是的,非常感谢。
666	Thanks.	谢谢
667	I'm sorry.	对不起
668	I didn't show my video because I saw everyone else	我没有展示我的视频因为我看到了其他人
669	It was not the show you so I thought the perfect new room of this room and I assume there's audience	这不是你的节目所以我想完美的新房间这个房间我想有观众
670	in person in the	个人在
671	In the hall so probably I should not assume my face which you couldn't be distracting	在大厅里,也许我不应该假设我的脸你不可能分散注意力
672	and	和
673	The book really helped me a lot thinking some questions that I have been concerned with	这本书真的帮助了我很多想了一些我一直关心的问题
674	Uh, okay.	嗯,还好。
675	Good.	不错
676	Now.	现在
677	I see many people there	我看见很多人在那里
678	So I I'm not fully qualified to provide any	所以我没有资格提供
679	Comments because I'm the anthropologist in this not so theologist or economist	因为我是人类学家而不是神学家或经济学家
680	Uh, but I will probably just raise a couple questions	嗯,但我可能只是提出几个问题
681	Almost as a lay reader then to hear more from you Alice number one is that I'm very touched	几乎作为一个专业的读者然后从你那里听到更多的爱丽丝第一是,我很感动
682	uh by the message	根据消息
683	In your book that you you said	在你写的书里
684	Connective labor is something very important but invisible and by giving a name	连通性劳动很重要,但不可见通过给出名字
685	To it is already	对它已经
686	It's a significant step	这是重要的一步
687	So, uh, I wonder	所以,呃,我觉得
688	Now it seems that you you name, uh, is that a kind of human effort attention	现在看来,你所说的,呃, 一种人类的努力关注
689	Connective labor	连通劳工
690	So I wonder	所以我觉得
691	How did you I mean is this a way of naming it?	你是什么意思这是命名的方法吗?
692	uh	瓳
693	What is the effect?	有什么影响?
694	You're the person whom you talked to I mean you you mentioned in in I think in your preface or the introduction	你是你说话的人我的意思是你提到在你的序言或导言
695	the people came to you after your lecture to say that's exactly we do there is a	你讲课后人们来找你说我们确实有
696	recognition, uh	承认,呃
697	People gain the recognition that the people desire but it was not available to them now	人们得到人们渴望的承认,但现在他们得不到
698	They see the name in that way, but I don't know whether you can elaborate a little more	他们这样看待这个名字,但我不知道你能不能再细说一下
699	uh on this point	嗯,在这一点上
700	the thinking that actual research is probably sometimes	认为实际研究可能有时
701	Not only about	不仅关于
702	Documenting or revealing but sometimes just giving a name to things that the people know really	记录或透露,但有时只是给人们真正知道的东西起个名字
703	So can you summarize a little more about this effect?	你能多总结一下这个效果吗?
704	and the number two question is	第二个问题是
705	The way you name it is by call	你这样称呼它的方式
706	by calling it a connective labor	称它为联系劳工
707	and	和
708	I have been thinking about that because um	我一直在想这个因为...
709	Is it a different story that we can tell?	我们能说出另一个故事吗?
710	about the phenomenon that you describe is to	关于你描述的现象
711	Almost take an opposite direction	几乎相反的方向
712	to say what the people are doing that is not	说人民在做什么不是
713	If you say it and as I mean then the problem is	如果你说,我的意思是,那么问题在于
714	we	我们
715	You know, we're naming it labor and then we	你知道,我们正在命名它的劳动然后我们
716	channel this type of humanity into a particular tongue	将这种人性传入特定的舌头
717	And it becomes a subject of monitoring regulation and evaluation and then to be	它成为监测监管和评估的对象,然后成为
718	Susceptible to be replaced by ai and etc	疑似由ai等替换
719	But would it be possible we start with?	但我们能从头开始吗?
720	The notion that actually it is not a labor and it should not should not be reduced into labor	认为它实际上不是劳动力,不应该被降低为劳动力
721	And there's a very fact that the type of humanity is being reduced to labor itself is a very caring part of	一个非常现实的事实是人类被贬低为劳动本身是一个非常有爱心的部分
722	the logical capitalism	逻辑资本主义
723	And then you know, we have a Hannah Arendt this	然后你知道,我们有一个汉娜阿伦特这个
724	If we use her framework and labor work and action, I would say this is action	如果我们用她的框架和劳动和行动,我会说这是行动
725	Is because it is an intersubjective action	因为它是主观行为
726	um, it should have	嗯,它应该有
727	Been	曾经
728	Stay it should have stayed outside of domain	呆着别动,应该不在域外
729	But even if we adopt the the marxian	就算我们收养了马赛人
730	uh tradition	传统
731	Then I still see some problem in in in the theoretical framework how we can	那么,我仍然看到一些问题在理论框架如何我们能够
732	Conceptualize it as a labor analytically, but I do recognize now that in the market	把它作为劳动力分析的概念, 但我现在承认在市场上
733	It is treated as if it is a labor so you can say it's a fictitious commodity or fictitious labor	它被当做是劳动所以可以说是虚构的商品或虚构的劳动
734	um, then why it's not a	那为什么它不是
735	The reason you know when you see it's a labor then it's kind of carried out by an individual	当你看到是劳动力时,你知道的原因是由个人做的
736	Uh with extra effort	呃,还有更多的努力
737	In a way that can be as you don't document it be quantified and can be evaluated and	可以用不记录的方式加以量化,并进行评估和
738	rewarding	奖励
739	But seeing other people feeling	但看到别人的感觉
740	empathy	同情心
741	Is actually is a kind of things that we just do	其实我们只是做一些事情
742	uh, we often do it unconsciously	我们经常无意识地做
743	and we're doing to not as a	而我们所做的不是作为一个
744	You know individual with a clear boundary, but we do in a very interactive and intersubjective matter	你知道个人有明确的界限, 但我们在一个非常互动和主题之间的事情
745	uh, and then we simply carry that into	嗯,然后我们只是携带到
746	uh work	额,工作
747	uh, but whether or not we now can we know to expand the the concept of labor to capture that is that	但是现在我们是否知道要扩大劳动的概念来捕捉
748	Good strategy or actually we should move the opposite direction to say	不错的策略,或者说,其实我们应该走相反的方向
749	Actually, this is something else and they should not be colonized by the logic of it	其实,这是别的东西, 他们不应该被它的逻辑殖民
750	Actually this is something else and they should not be colonized by the logic of labor don't think about it. Actually, this is something else	实际上,这是另外一回事,他们不应该被劳工的逻辑所殖民,不要去想它。其实,这是别的东西
751	And I think you also mentioned in your book one telling is not in your own observation, but I think is a sighting from literature is the service workers, especially relatively low paying workers often take a pride of their so called emotional labor.	我想你在书中也提到过, 讲的不是你自己的观察, 但我认为,从文学上看到的是服务工人, 特别是相对低薪的工人常常为他们所谓的情感劳动感到骄傲。
752	And that somehow makes me think we do have the impression that the well paid, the high end emotional labor, like in the consultants or in the service industry, often are more sensitive towards the potential alienation and this kind of faking aspect of emo	这让我觉得我们确实有这样的印象: 高薪的高端情感劳动, 就像顾问或服务行业的劳动, 往往对潜在的疏远和这种情感劳动的假面更为敏感。
753	But actually in the service industry, if you go to the street and you see the peddlers and people running small restaurants and et cetera, they also smile at you.	但实际上在服务业里,如果你去街上看到小贩和人们经营小餐馆,等等, 他们也会对你微笑。
754	You can see the smile.	你可以看到微笑。
755	Is that authentic or not authentic?	是真的还是假的?
756	It's very hard to tell.	佛告阿难.
757	But often the smile and the greetings are certainly spontaneous and it can be very tiring.	但笑容和问候往往是自发的,可能很累。
758	But I also personally observe at the end of the day, this, you know, Papa Mama shop owners are quite proud that they are capable of performing this emotional labor as a part of the business.	但我最后也亲眼看到, 这个,你知道,爸爸妈妈店主相当自豪,他们有能力做这种情感劳动作为企业的一部分。
759	Assuming they are self-employed or they are employed as a part of their work and the business, even though it's not completely authentic or not, but they are proud.	假设他们自谋职业,或受雇于他们的工作和企业,尽管它不是完全真实的,也不是完全真实的,但他们很骄傲.
760	And then why do I mention here?	那我为什么在这里提?
761	So I'm thinking of it.	故发心.
762	Where does this sense of dignity, where does this sense of pride come from?	这种尊严感从何而来,这种自豪感从何而来?
763	It is come from recognition that during the day I was doing my work.	这是从承认,在白天我做我的工作。
764	I was a laborer.	我是一个劳工。
765	But there is something staying outside of labor that I'm in control.	但有些事我控制不了工作之外的事情
766	That is what you call the connected capacity, because I smile to my customers.	这就是你所谓的连接能力, 因为我笑我的客户。
767	I service them and that is my job.	我为他们服务,这是我的工作。
768	But I create a connection.	但我创造了一个连接。
769	I have the capacity to perform a smile and make them feel good.	我有能力微笑让他们感觉好点
770	And they did go away having a nice meal and very happily left.	他们确实走了吃顿好饭,非常快乐地离开了。
771	So I am doing my job.	所以我在尽我的职责
772	I'm proud of the capacity.	我以能力为荣
773	But also, I'm very happy that as a result of my work, I did create some genuine nice sense of happiness and connectivity among my customers.	但我也很高兴,由于我的工作,我确实在顾客中创造了一些真正的美好快乐感和连通感.
774	And if the person is completely regarding him or herself as a laborer, if the person is thinking, OK, what I do is a laborer, then the question is that, OK, how can I make sure I'm not exploited?	如果这个人完全把自己当成一个劳工, 如果这个人在想,好吧,我所做的是一个劳工, 那么问题是,好吧,我怎么能确保自己不被剥削呢?
775	How I can make sure all my effort will be recognized and rewarded?	我如何确保我的所有努力都得到表彰和奖励?
776	That will be one line of thinking.	这将是一种想法。
777	If the person is kind of thinking, OK, part of me is doing my labor, but I have another one.	如果这个人在想,好吧,我的一部分正在做我的劳动, 但我有另一个。
778	You know, have a consciousness over the labor consciousness and recognize there is something of my capacity which is staying outside of labor.	你知道,有一个意识对于劳动意识, 并承认有我能力的东西,
779	But nevertheless, I deploy it.	但是,尽管如此,我部署它。
780	And then that gives them another sense of dignity and respect.	然后,这给他们另一种尊严和尊重感。
781	So one strategy is to enlarge that space.	因此,一个策略就是扩大这个空间。
782	I don't know.	师曰.
783	I mean, this is my, you know, your stimulated me is thinking of that way.	我的意思是,这是我,你知道, 你刺激我是想这样。
784	So the final point is about the machine to the rational thing, human to feeling is that they kind of do it together.	最后一点是机器对理性事物的影响, 人类的感觉是它们是一起做的。
785	More than what you mentioned, whether how what what what I as an apology to think of that.	比你说的还要多无论我怎么道歉
786	Number one, probably there is a history to that trend.	第一,这一趋势可能有历史。
787	And does that history actually probably can say from 20 early 20th century that is apparently because in the in the modern society,	20世纪初的历史是否可以说因为现代社会
788	especially in city, urban societies, apparently is no longer directly tied to livelihood activities.	特别是在城市和城市社会,显然不再直接与生计活动挂钩。
789	So parenting is more and more become kind of a feeling job.	所以,养育子女越来越成为一种感觉工作。
790	And then the actual education.	然后实际教育.
791	I mean, how children, you know, of course, now there's no such thing as a child labor in advanced countries and how the child running around doing housework.	我的意思是,孩子们,你知道,当然, 现在没有像童工这样的东西在发达国家, 和孩子如何跑来跑去做家务。
792	How do they do study and how they look after themselves that is all becoming a separate.	他们是如何学习的,如何照顾自己, 这一切正在变得独立。
793	Sorry.	对不起
794	Yeah, it's that kind of activity.	是啊,这是那种活动。
795	It become a separate domain and as a parent, they just look after emotion and become a feeling.	它成为一个单独的域,作为一个家长,他们只是照顾情感,成为一种感觉.
796	So in a way that is such a I thought it's been interesting.	所以,从某种意义上说,我觉得这很有趣。
797	Some clue could be gained from there.	可以从那里获得一些线索。
798	But then I'm also thinking of there is a partly informed by this history.	但后来我还想到,有一部分人从这个历史中得知.
799	I am also worried about the trend in human society that is that there is a feeling itself become almost autonomous and independent domain removed from material activities and the material in rational thinking.	我还担心的是,人类社会的趋势是,有一种感觉本身几乎是自主和独立的领域,从物质活动和理性思考的材料中消失。
800	Because there's no such a thing.	因甚么处来.
801	We know the feeling if the feeling is not attached to very concrete material activities, the feeling itself will become very problematic.	我们知道,如果这种感觉不附着于非常具体的物质活动,这种感觉本身就会变得非常麻烦。
802	And I don't have evidence, but based on my observation among the Chinese young people, very often the psychological well-being is damaged.	而且我没有证据,但根据我对中国年轻人的观察,往往使心理安康受损.
803	Once you if you live in a condition that you receive lots of attention, actually, you know, you're you're cared about our parents because it almost spoiled.	一旦你生活在一个条件你得到很多关注, 实际上,你知道,你关心我们的父母,因为它几乎被宠坏。
804	But then that kind of feeling, because it detached from the material basis itself will create a situation that you will be over sensitive, becoming paramount.	但是这种感觉,因为它脱离了物质基础本身,将造成一种你过于敏感,变得至高无上的局面.
805	So that is another weather.	这是另一种天气。
806	So, yeah, so I have some worry about the situation that there's some people do full time appeal of feeling and is that already I think the problem of the 21st century is the divorce of the feeling of the human nature away from very concrete material pract	所以,是的,所以我有些担心某些人有全时的感受, 并且我认为21世纪的问题已经是人性的感觉脱离了非常具体的物质实践。
807	Thank you.	谢谢
808	Well, thank you so much for these really interesting, provocative, thoughtful comments.	嗯,非常感谢你这些真正有趣,挑衅性,深思熟虑的评论。
809	I have so much to say I feel like this conversation could go on for a very long time.	我有很多话要说我觉得这次谈话可以持续很长一段时间
810	And I think I'll just take them in order, if you don't mind.	如果你不介意的话,我还是按顺序处理吧
811	The first question or the first point was kind of the importance of naming something.	第一个问题或第一个要点是命名某物的重要性。
812	What, why do we name something?	什么,我们为什么命名什么?
813	What's the point of that really?	这到底有什么意义?
814	And you kind of distinguish between research that might try to analyze why something is going on versus or, you know, kind of the enterprise of naming.	你将研究区分开来, 研究可能试图分析为什么有些事情正在发生, 或者,你知道,某种命名的企业。
815	I feel like naming is vital, as perhaps you can tell.	我觉得点名很重要,也许你看得出来
816	And as I did mention in the in the book, when I give talks on this, people come up to me afterward and say, you know, I am a nurse and thank you for writing this.	正如我在书中所提到的, 当我谈论这个问题时, 人们会来找我,然后说,你知道, 我是个护士,谢谢你写这个。
817	Thank you for giving a name to this.	谢谢你给这个名字
818	I'm now have now I have I'm equipped with something that I can go back and explain to my brother, my husband, my administrator, what what I'm trying to do or what gives value to my work or what, you know, being able to name something makes something visib	现在我有我的东西,我可以回去向我的兄弟,我的丈夫,我的管理者解释, 我到底想做什么, 或什么赋予我的工作价值,或什么,你知道, 能够命名的东西使一些东西可以明显, 然后人们可以用于他们的目的。
819	And I often tell my grad students, you know, kind of to be careful what you name, you know, have have what you name be kind of, you know, be aware of the repercussions of naming something and that when we name something we kind of arm ourselves with the p	我经常告诉我的研究生,你知道, 要小心你所命名的事物, 你知道,有你所命名的事物, 你知道,要意识到命名某样东西的后果, 当我们命名某样东西时, 我们有一种武装自己的能力驱动行动。
820	So, I will add parenthetically that you mentioned the comment, the term emotional labor, and that's another thing that's been given a name by early hook shield in 1977 was her first time.	所以,我用括号补充一下,你提到了评论, 情绪劳动一词, 这是另一个在1977年被早期钩盾命名的东西,是她的第一次。
821	And people often conflate emotional labor and what I'm trying to do, which is connective labor.	人们常常把情感劳动和我想做的事混为一谈, 也就是连接性劳动。
822	And I'm actually I'm fine with the notion that connective labor is a variant of emotional labor.	其实我对连结性劳动是情感劳动的一种变体这个概念也很好.
823	Emotional labor was actually originally coined to mean emotion management, or that kind of ginning up of potentially false feeling for a wage.	情感劳动其实是被发明的, 意指情感管理, 或那种虚构的对工资的潜在错误感觉。
824	And so that raises the questions of authenticity that you brought up in your third question, which I will get to in a minute.	因此,这引起了你提出的第三个问题的真实性问题,我将在一分钟内回答这个问题。
825	But in any case, connective labor is actually something very specific.	但无论如何,连结性劳动力实际上是非常具体的。
826	It's this witnessing and reflecting work that's received by the other.	正是这种见证和反映的作品被对方所接受.
827	And I don't mind if we think of it as a variant of emotional labor, if we define emotional labor as kind of anything involving emotions between people for a wage.	我不介意我们把它看作是情感劳动的变体, 如果我们把情感劳动定义为任何涉及人与人之间情绪的报酬。
828	But they are different in terms of the emotion management is a very specific thing and not the same thing as this witnessing work that I'm talking about.	但它们在情感管理上是不同的, 是一个非常具体的事情, 而不是我所说的见证工作。
829	And I thought it was worth naming so that I could give power to the people who do it, and to be able to, you know, kind of make arguments with those principally with their insurers and their program administrators, and also for our kind of general society	我认为这值得命名,这样我就可以赋予做这件事的人权力, 并且能够,你知道, 那种辩论与那些主要与他们的保险公司和他们的程序管理者,
830	AI and apps are aiming at.	AI和应用程序的目标是。
831	So I really had my intention was twofold.	所以我有双重目的
832	I thought your second question was very powerful.	我以为你的第二个问题很强
833	Why is this labor?	为什么是这种劳动?
834	What do we lose by calling it labor?	我们管它叫劳动有什么损失?
835	Is there something else?	还有别的吗?
836	You know, is this not labor?	你知道,这不是劳动吗?
837	By calling it labor, are we already kind of giving some allegiance to kind of a capitalist view and making it more	把它叫做劳动,我们是不是已经有点效忠于一种资本主义的观点,并让它更加
838	susceptible to the very kind of trends that I am worried about its systematization and its automation?	我担心它的系统化和自动化,
839	And I find that very provocative and, you know, kind of I'm quite sympathetic to the position that from which that question arises.	我发现这个非常挑衅性, 并且,你知道,那种我相当同情由此而来的问题。
840	I would answer in, I think, a pragmatic sense, which is the word, the words connective labor do something that is, I think, useful in the conversation, because it highlights both the connection, highlights the interactivity, and also highlights the workin	我想,我要用一种务实的观念来回答, 也就是这个词, 连结劳动这个词在对话中做了一些有用的事, 因为它突出了两者的联系, 突出了互动, 也突出了这个劳动的工作条件。
841	So it does both of those things.	因此,它做这两种事情。
842	For example, other words that are out there that are kind of related are therapists will call this the therapeutic alliance.	例如,外面有某种关联的字眼治疗师会称之为治疗联盟。
843	Doctors will call this the doctor patient relationship.	医生会把这称为医生的病人关系。
844	Business writers will call this emotional intelligence or your emotional, they'll say your EQ, you know, in reference to IQ, obviously.	商业作家会称这种情感智能或你的情感, 他们会说你的EQ, 你知道,关于智商,很明显。
845	Each of those have has problems.	每个都有问题。
846	I'll just take the business writers, for example, by calling this emotional intelligence, what you're not doing, you're locating it entirely within the individual, and you're erasing the deeply collaborative nature of this work, the connection that makes	我只要把商业作家们, 比如说,把这种情感的智慧, 你没有做的事情, 你把它完全定位在个人身上, 你正在抹去这个作品的深度协作性, 使这个作品发挥作用的联系。
847	So I have a whole chapter on how this work is uniquely human.	因此,我有一个完整的章节讲述这工作是如何独特的人类。
848	And some of those characteristics that I highlight are its collaborative nature.	我强调的一些特征是它的协同性质。
849	That is, it is people coming together to do this together.	也就是说,是人们聚集在一起共同完成这项工作。
850	It is not located inside the individual.	它不在个人内部。
851	So this emotional intelligence is not actually useful.	所以这种情感智能实际上并不有用.
852	So hence the word connection.	因此,词连接。
853	Your focus was on labor.	你专注于劳动。
854	And I agree to some degree that, you know, we could call it, you know, what did you say, intersubjective action or connective action, perhaps connective practice, something like that.	我在某种程度上同意,你知道, 我们可以称之为, 你知道,你说什么, 主观之间的行动或连结性的行动, 也许是连结性的做法,类似的东西。
855	But I wanted to draw people's attention.	但我想引起人们的注意。
856	Again, it's like, what does naming do?	再说一遍,就像,命名有什么用?
857	And I wanted to draw people's attention to its working conditions.	我想让人们注意它的工作条件。
858	So, and I fear that while, yes, it happens in for a wage and not for a wage, it is what parents do with children.	所以,我担心,虽然,是的, 它发生在工资而不是工资, 这是父母如何对待孩子。
859	It is what friends do with friends, you know, or whatever.	这就是朋友对朋友做的事
860	I wanted to draw attention to how we are treating it in the workplace.	我想提请大家注意我们在工作场所是如何对待它的。
861	Hence the point about making it labor, connective labor.	因此,重要的是使它成为劳动, 连接的劳动。
862	Perhaps we could subsume connective labor under a larger idea of connective practice.	也许我们可以把连通性劳动纳入一个更广义的连通性实践
863	I'd be totally open to that.	我将完全开放。
864	Maybe that'll be book five.	也许是第五册
865	Relatedly, in the kind of same point, you kind of talked about how this is something we just do, was the word you use.	与此相关的是, 在同一点上, 你谈论了如何这是我们刚刚做的, 是这个词。
866	It's like, we do, and I think you were kind of saying, we do this all over, not just in work.	这就像,我们做到了, 我想你是在说, 我们做这一切, 不只是在工作中。
867	And I want to say that that kind of gets at a central tension that animated this work from the beginning.	我想说的是,这种情绪在中央的紧张状态下, 从一开始就动画了这部作品。
868	And that is, how do we scale this up?	也就是说,我们如何扩大规模?
869	Now, that question, that very question is a question that comes from like Silicon Valley.	现在,那个问题,正是一个像硅谷一样的问题。
870	This is how they talk.	他们就是这样说话的
871	How do we scale up good teaching?	我们如何扩大好的教学?
872	How do we scale up?	我们如何扩大规模?
873	But on some level, I share that question.	但在某种程度上,我同意这个问题。
874	I share the worries about access and availability.	我同样担心能否进入。
875	And I think a central tension here is how do we both kind of support and enable this, what I favor, this kind of artisanal, emotional craftwork.	我认为这里的一个中心紧张是,我们如何支持和促成这种,我喜欢的, 这种手工的,情感的手工艺。
876	And at the same time, make it available for as many as possible and make that availability not dependent on whether, as I said, you are lucky or affluent.	同时,尽可能多地提供这种机会,使这种机会不取决于,正如我所说,你是幸运的还是富裕的。
877	And that tension between the desire for the work to be powerful, meaningful, and kind of full, and at the same time be available on a broad scale, that tension kind of animated the whole book, me trying to figure out how do we systematize connective pract	工作要强大,有意义, 并且充满活力, 同时又可以广泛使用, 紧张的情绪使整本书动画化, 我试图找出我们如何系统化连接实践, 我们可以说。
878	So calling it connective labor was one way to kind of point out that this is a skill, even though it is also interactive, it can be trained.	因此,称它为连接性劳动, 是一种指出这种技能的方法, 尽管它也是互动的,但它可以被训练。
879	And that actually was much of my observation.	这其实是我的观察。
880	I actually on purpose chose to observe people being trained in this work because I was particularly interested in how we, when we train someone in something, we kind of abstract out the common principles and we point, you know, like this is what I'm doing	实际上,我故意选择观察人们在这项工作中接受培训, 因为我特别感兴趣的是, 当我们在某方面训练某人时, 我们抽出一些共同的原则, 并且,你知道,像这样,我正在做的事情。
881	And we take it away from its very particularistic, emotional context in between two idiosyncratic people with baggage, you know, we kind of say, well, generally I do, and I was just very interested in that tension between this artisanal work and its syste	我们把它从两个有行李的特异性人物之间的非常特殊,情感背景中去掉, 你知道,我们可以说, 一般来说,我是这样的, 我只是对这个手工工作及其系统化之间的矛盾非常感兴趣。
882	So, yeah, the word connective labor was very much on purpose.	所以,是的, 连接性劳动这个词是非常故意的。
883	Your last, your third question was about kind of authenticity and the kind of, or maybe this was part of point number two, but it was kind of, you were pointing to how low income people or laborers actually derive pleasure from when they are providing emo	你的最后一个问题,你的第三个问题是那种真实性和类型, 或也许这是第二点的一部分, 但是,这是种,你指着低收入的人或工人如何从他们提供情感劳动中获得乐趣。
884	They derive pleasure and some of that pleasure might be in the connections that they are making and that those connections are part of their core humanity.	他们获得快乐,其中的一些快乐可能存在于他们正在建立的联系之中,而这些联系是他们核心人性的一部分。
885	I'm very interested in this idea.	我对这个想法很感兴趣
886	I agree that that's a common, that is a robust research finding that service workers find pleasure in emotion work, emotional labor, and that's kind of counter to many kind of initial theoretical hypotheses.	我同意,这是一个共同的, 即一个有力的研究发现, 服务工作者在情感工作,情感劳动中找到乐趣, 这与许多类型的初步理论假设是背道而驰的。
887	That was kind of a surprise finding like, huh, we thought that this would lead to their greater alienation and as it turns out, they derive pleasure from it.	这是一种令人惊讶的发现像,嗯,我们以为这会导致他们更大的疏远和结果, 他们从它得到的乐趣。
888	And I think the idea that the pleasure they're deriving is from the connections that they're making is a really interesting and provocative further hypothesis that I, you know, would love to investigate further.	我认为他们从关系中得到的乐趣是一个非常有趣和挑衅性的假设, 我,你知道,想进一步调查。
889	I did find that people get a lot of meaning and profound, you know, kind of impact on their own experience, on their own selves from doing this work.	我确实发现,人们得到了很多意义和深刻的,你知道的, 一种影响他们自己的经历, 对自己做这项工作。
890	And maybe that is what makes service work okay with some forms of emotional labor.	也许这就是使服务工作与某些形式的情感劳动是好的。
891	So I just thought that was a really interesting point that I want to kind of put a pin on for future reference.	所以我觉得这是一个非常有趣的问题, 我想给将来参考。
892	Your last point about like, don't get too happy about the separation between feeling and thinking, completely agree.	你最后的一点,喜欢, 不要太高兴关于分感觉和思考,完全同意。
893	I actually teach a class, a very large lecture class called the sociology of family, and that's a central finding or a central theme is that families used to be bound by material concerns and was not actually an emotional center.	我实际上教了一个班,一个叫做家庭社会学的非常大的讲课, 这是一个中心发现或中心主题是,家庭过去受到物质问题的约束,实际上不是一个情感中心。
894	It was not defined by emotion.	它不是由情感定义的。
895	It was, it included borders and apprentices and, you know, all kinds of different people in the same unit.	包括边境和学徒, 以及,你知道,所有不同的人在同一单位。
896	And it was an economic unit and it was about shared economic fates and people shared jobs and shared material conditions.	它是一个经济单位它涉及共同的经济命运人们分享工作和物质条件
897	And it was about the emotions were not the center.	情绪不是中心
898	And over the last, say, 200, 300 years, as we move away from a kind of agricultural society, you actually see these different functions of a family kind of slough off.	过去,比如说,200,300年, 当我们远离一种农业社会的时候, 你实际上看到了这些不同的功能, 一个家庭一种疏远。
899	And what is remaining is this emotional intensity and that has led to families being more emotionally satisfying for some marriages can last 65, 70 years.	剩下的是这种情绪的强度导致家庭对一些婚姻的情感更满意可能持续65,70年。
900	And at the same time, also much more unstable.	同时,也更加不稳定。
901	So, because emotions, you know, can be fleeting.	所以,因为情绪,你知道, 可以是短暂的。
902	So that very instability is what you highlight in what could happen to the self.	所以,这种不稳定性就是你们在自我可能发生的事情中强调的。
903	If we rely entirely on kind of emotions for our well being.	如果我们完全依赖某种情绪来维持我们的生活
904	I'm not entirely sure I see that because the material conditions that are grounded, you know, that that ground a self aren't necessarily captured by kind of technology and the thinking that happens over in kind of the, the kind of autonomous,	我并不完全肯定我所看到的, 因为物质条件基础,你知道, 那个地面一种自我并不一定被那种技术和发生的想法那种自主,
905	rational, say, medical diagnostics or whatever, like there's a way to be a thinking self that is not automated.	理性的,比如说,医学诊断或者什么的, 就像有办法成为一个思维的自我,而不是自动化的。
906	But I hear what you're saying.	但我听到你在说什么。
907	And the linkages between emotions and feeling and instability are corroborated across many dimensions and domains of human life.	情感与感觉和不稳定之间的联系在人类生活的许多方面和领域得到了证实。
908	And I think that's a really smart observation.	我认为这是一个非常聪明的观察。
909	Thank you for these comments.	谢谢你的这些评论。
910	I really appreciate them.	我真的很感激他们。
911	Thank you very much for both your wonderful comments and dialogues.	非常感谢各位的精彩评论和对话。
912	Use a little privilege as a moderator.	用一点特权做主持人.
913	I also have two brief questions.	我也有两个简短的问题。
914	If that is okay.	如果可以的话。
915	The first question, I totally agree with you that emotion not only is useful to our valued goals, but also define human beings.	第一个问题是,我完全同意你的看法,即情感不仅对我们的宝贵目标有用,而且对人类的定义也有用。
916	But part of the definition is that we're allowed to be not emotionally ready to the person we are interacting with.	但定义的一部分是,我们被允许无法在情感上准备好与我们互动的人。
917	I used to say that it's part of the natural phenomenon, but in your book, I thought we should better call it that's more humane.	我曾经说过,这是自然现象的一部分,但是在你的书中,我认为我们最好称之为更人道的现象.
918	So think about a case that the doctor said, I'm a hurry to the patient, perhaps, perhaps a machine or AI never say, never says I'm hurry or I can't give you responses because it seems to be less and less likely to get no response for the powerful algorith	所以想一想医生说的一个病例,我对病人很着急,也许,一台机器或AI从来没有说过,从来没有说我很着急,或者我不能给你答复,因为似乎越来越不可能对强大的算法没有反应.
919	When we are more subjected to subject to stronger, powerful analysis of our emotional changes.	当我们更受我们情感变化的更有力、更强大的分析所左右时
920	But think about the real cases of interaction.	但想一想互动的真正案例.
921	So how can we allow people to be non responsive?	那么,我们如何允许人们不作出反应?
922	How can we allow people not ready to give emotional responses to us?	我们如何能够允许那些不准备对我们作出情绪反应的人?
923	That's part of the emotional interactions.	这是情感互动的一部分。
924	So the patients may have the natural inclination to understand if we see an understanding is natural that to understand that caregiver is not ready to give cure in a particular moment.	因此,病人也许有自然的倾向来理解如果我们看到一个理解是自然的, 来理解护理者还没有准备好在特定时刻提供治疗。
925	So not to be emotional ready is part of the emotional interaction that define what you say personal personalization.	所以不要情绪化准备是决定你所说的个性化的情感互动的一部分.
926	Exactly like.	完全一样。
927	So if we use the connected labor, so how can we accommodate the moment that we see this connection instead of a deeper connection between us that for me is remarkable boundaries between truly human interaction and interactions underpinned by AI intelligen	所以,如果我们使用相连的劳动力, 那么我们如何适应我们看到这种关联的时刻, 而不是我们之间更深的关联, 对我来说,是真正的人类互动和由人工智能支撑的互动之间的显著界限。
928	Yep.	对
929	So what does knowledge, emotional responses mean in the cognitive labor or in in the emotion interactions?	那么知识,情感反应在认知劳动或情感互动中意味着什么?
930	And the second question, it's actually for both of you.	第二个问题其实是你们俩的
931	I hope to could get you into another round of conversation.	我希望能让你再谈一次
932	So does connective labor have a spatial preference?	那么,连接劳工有空间偏好吗?
933	Does does connective labor has a geographic orbit?	连接劳工有地理轨道吗?
934	And how can we know which part of that your geographic orbit is preferred within the emotional interaction?	我们怎样才能知道在情感互动中你选择的地理轨道的哪一部分?
935	For example, I believe that's Professor Schell's concern for the past three years, our way connecting to other people and the cost of the proximity and the cost of people and concrete material basis surround us.	例如,我认为这就是舍尔教授过去三年来所关心的问题, 我们与其他人的联系方式, 以及接近的代价, 人的代价和具体的物质基础。
936	For example, I have disputes and disagreements from my roommates.	比如,我和室友有争执和分歧
937	I could have broads and quarrels and very violent encounter with them during the night and then we'll go get a get a drink and get drunk and come back and sleep.	我晚上可以跟女人吵架和她们发生非常激烈的遭遇然后我们去喝一杯然后喝醉再回来睡觉
938	That settles it.	就这么定了
939	But now I should say no encounter, no conflict at all.	但我现在应该说,没有遭遇,没有冲突。
940	I will instead I will go post a moment on the social media says I really had a bad day because of some really bad responses from somebody who just sleep under my bed.	我会在社交媒体上发表一段话,
941	So that is the case that I believe is commonly happening for college students today.	所以,我认为今天大学生经常出现这种情况。
942	They are trying to connecting people but not peripherally connecting to the most surrounding proximate or intimate environment.	他们试图把人连接起来,而不是在边缘连接到最近或最亲密的环境。
943	So that's my question.	这就是我的问题。
944	Does does connecting labor have a special preference?	连接劳工有特别的偏好吗?
945	If so, how can we predict that?	如果是这样,我们如何预测?
946	Thank you very much.	谢谢
947	Well, thank you so much for both of those questions.	非常感谢你问了这两个问题
948	Really interesting.	真的很有趣,你觉得呢?
949	The first about like kind of when people are not ready to connect and kind of the way I would approach that or answer that is that.	第一种是当人们还没有准备好联系的时候, 那种我的方法, 或答案就是那样。
950	The kind of imperfection of human connection is part of what feels very human.	人类联系的不完善是人类感觉的一部分。
951	So actually the as I mentioned, I think I mentioned about people making mistakes and I kept hearing again and again from therapists who have this articulated.	所以,事实上,正如我所提到的, 我想我提到了人们犯错, 我不停地听到从治疗师那里听到的, 这些治疗师已经讲清楚了。
952	They call it a therapeutic rupture and there's actually research that shows that when there's a rupture and then there's a repair, the kind of stops and starts of connection actually feel more human than a perfectly seamless seeing by the other.	他们称之为治疗性破裂, 实际上有研究表明, 当有破裂,然后有修复, 那种停止和开始的连接真正感觉更多的是人而不是完全无缝地看到对方。
953	Now I would say engineers are starting to notice this and there is actually AI work that I have seen in which they purposely code mistakes into the AI agent that then has been shown through research to make humans feel more kind of	现在我想说工程师们开始注意到这一点了事实上,我见过一些AI的作品他们故意把错误编码到AI的代理中然后通过研究显示
954	That would be a distinction that we can rely on forever.	这将是一个我们可以永远依赖的区别。
955	But the point you were making on about like what happens when the other is not really ready and the kind of fits and starts of connection right now are part of what makes something feel more human.	但是当另一个人还没有准备好的时候,你所说的重点和现在的连接方式一样,是让人感觉更人性化的一部分。
956	It actually is a more important part of human connective labor I would say than the idea of a perfect encounter.	这其实是人类连结劳动中一个更重要的部分, 我想说它比一个完美的相遇的想法更重要。
957	That second one before I turn it over to Mr. Zhang, Professor Zhang, I would say yes, there is definitely a spatial component to this.	在我把它交给张先生,张教授之前,我要说,是的,这肯定有一个空间部分。
958	I have a whole chapter on how people do this work and the first point that I make because it was what they told me was how they use their bodies and I had a wide range of practitioners.	我有一整章关于人们如何做这项工作, 以及我所说的第一点, 因为他们告诉我的是他们如何使用他们的身体, 我有很多的从业者。
959	Some people were very much like this is a science, not an art.	有些人非常喜欢这种科学,而不是艺术。
960	This is a science, you know, and other people were like, you know, more open to different kinds of inputs.	这是一个科学,你知道, 其他人喜欢,你知道, 更开放不同的投入。
961	But all across that spectrum, they would be like, there's a vibe or it's a spidey sense or, you know, they would use, they had language for the fact that they are using their emotional antenna in a way that relies on nonverbal signals that require bodily	但是在那些光谱上,他们会像, 有一种感觉,或者是一种spidey的感觉, 或者,你知道,他们会使用,他们有语言, 因为他们使用他们的情绪天线的方式, 依赖于非语言信号, 需要身体上的共同存在。
962	Now, there are some people who do this over Zoom, especially during COVID and more increasingly in the last five years, and it's possible.	现在,有些人通过Zoom做这件事, 特别是在COVID期间, 并且在过去5年里越来越多, 这是可能的。
963	So you miss some of those nonverbal signals, but most of them talked about how vital bodily co-presence was for doing this really well.	所以,你错过了一些非语言信号, 但他们大多谈到身体上的共同存在对于做得很好。
964	And so you need to be nearby.	所以,你需要在附近。
965	I'll use that to defer to you, sir.	我会用它来屈从你,先生。
966	Yeah, thanks.	是的,谢谢。
967	Two quick responses.	两个快速响应。
968	Number one is that the perfection, this is now objectively, it is a trend that people expect immediate response and if the other party is always ready, and we know that is a main source of tremendous pressure created for lots of service workers.	第一,完美,这是客观的, 这是一个人们期望立即作出反应的趋势, 如果另一方总是准备好, 我们知道这是给许多服务工人带来巨大压力的主要来源。
969	And then what Alice mentioned, that's very interesting, you know, the AI deliberate effect in human-like mistakes.	然后爱丽丝提到, 这是非常有趣的,你知道,AI 故意的效果在类似人类的错误。
970	I mean, this reminds me, of course, we know in ancient time, which is the most widespread in the Middle East, when you're weaving a puppet in Iran, Iraq, and always you will deliberately make a mistake in a piece of fabric.	我的意思是,这提醒了我,当然,我们知道,在古代, 这是中东最普遍的, 当你在伊朗,伊拉克编织一个傀儡, 你总是会故意在一块布料上犯错误。
971	And then the belief behind that, if the piece of carpet is too perfect, you will attract the envy of the gong, and also you will attract the envy of your neighbors.	然后相信,如果地毯太完美了, 你会吸引到那个家伙的羡慕, 你也会吸引到邻居的羡慕。
972	And then the cultural mechanism behind that is very complex, you would say, and this kind of a sense of envy actually is a way to keep society more egalitarian.	然后,它背后的文化机制非常复杂, 你会说, 这种嫉妒感实际上是一种使社会更加平等的方法。
973	It's allowed, as the moderator asked us, it's allowed for imperfection, allow certain space for people to be unready, and then they say, okay, if you're too perfect, the envy is destructive.	它被允许,正如主持人要求的那样, 它被允许不完美, 允许某些空间让人们没有准备好, 然后他们说,好吧,如果你太完美, 嫉妒是破坏性的。
974	So that is a very wise way of organizing society, should not be always maximum efficiency, etc.	所以,这是一个非常明智的组织社会的方法,不应该总是达到最高的效率,等等.
975	But now we have the AI and all the machines, and nobody is worried about envy.	但现在我们有了人工智能和所有的机器没有人担心嫉妒
976	In social media, everyone wants other people to envy them.	在社交媒体中,每个人都希望其他人羡慕他们.
977	So Trump would be just, everyone is worried that people are not envying him enough.	所以特朗普会只是,大家都担心人们没有足够羡慕他.
978	So society has changed, and what does it mean?	所以社会已经改变了,这是什么意思?
979	And then you probably go back to Marx's analysis of capitalism.	然后你可能回到马克思对资本主义的分析.
980	If you don't have the kind of small breakdown, if the whole system becomes so rationalized, then every day becomes very smooth, convenient, everything is ready.	如果你没有那种小的崩溃, 如果整个系统变得如此合理化, 那么每天都变得非常平滑,方便, 一切都准备好了。
981	But then we are rushing into a probably dead end, and we are rushing into a kind of, we lost the direction, it may be have a sudden, total crisis of collapse.	但是,我们急于进入一个可能死胡同, 我们急于进入一种,我们失去了方向, 它可能突然,完全崩溃的危机。
982	That is quite likely, quite likely, because there's a self-deportation mechanism has been lost, like there's a little mistake in the capital, that kind of thing.	这很有可能,因为有一个自我驱逐机制已经丢失了,就像在首都有一点错误,那种事情.
983	And then about the speciality of connection, I mean, it's important for all reasons.	然后关于连接的特殊性,我的意思是,出于各种原因,这很重要.
984	And I think Alice in the Book very powerfully demonstrated that, you know, from this chaplain's, how to touch your hand and the hugs.	我认为《圣经》中的爱丽丝非常有力地证明了从这位牧师那里如何触摸你的手和拥抱
985	And also a woman, I can't remember her name, she was talking about energy, the air, you feel tickling in the body, and you know, it goes away, you'll be able to read the air.	还有一个女人,我不记得她的名字了, 她讲的是能量,空气,你在身体里感到痒,你知道,它消失了,你会读到空气。
986	So it is not only about physical speciality per se, but it's really about body, about the way a human, how we sense our own existence and the surrounding.	因此,它不仅涉及到身体的特异性本身, 而且还涉及到身体,人类的方式,我们如何感知我们自己的存在和周围。
987	And I don't know, I don't know what people have done in a Zoom meeting between dogs.	我不知道,我不知道人们做了什么在缩小会议狗。
988	And it's been interesting to know whether or not dogs bark at each other over Zoom.	了解狗是否互相吠过Zoom 很有趣
989	Because as an organism, as an evolution, you know, after a million years in nature, and you do rely on your immediate surrounding in order to establish a sense of self and get all this capacity flourishing.	因为作为一个生物体,作为一个进化体,你知道, 在自然界的一百万年后, 你确实依靠你身边的周围, 来建立自我意识, 让所有这些能力蓬勃发展。
990	You need that material.	你需要那个材料。
991	So that's it, of course, important, but I think the speciality was attention also because this is a weapon, or at least a battlefield that ordinary people can use.	当然,这就是它的重要性, 但我认为这个特殊性是注意的, 也因为这是一个武器, 或者至少是普通人可以使用的战场。
992	It is a kind of effective weapon of the weak, of the people fighting against these large forces, such as AI and state power.	它是弱者的一种有效武器,是对抗这些大势力的人民,如AI和国家权力.
993	Because AI and this capitalism in general, state power, they have a special power of eradicating the nearby, because they can create a huge system, which can govern millions and millions of people by using a single standard, regardless of where you are, e	由于AI和这种资本主义一般,国家权力,他们拥有消灭附近地区的特殊力量,因为他们可以建立一个庞大的系统,这个系统可以通过使用单一的标准来治理数百万人,无论你在哪里等等.
994	But if we make ourselves very sticky, and make us stubborn, and at least distance from this very smooth, single, abstract system, that would be a basis of resistance as well as resilience.	但如果我们让自己变得非常粘稠,让我们变得固执,至少与这个非常光滑,单一,抽象的系统保持距离,这将是抵抗和韧性的基础.
995	Thank you, thank you, thank you.	谢谢,谢谢,谢谢

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