流动的界限：艺术教育与实践的合与分
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:04 | Today we are very happy to be able to collaborate with Spurs Gallery in Beijing, Sherry Lai and her team | 今天我们很高兴能与北京的Spurs美术馆、Sherry Lai和她的团队合作 |
| 0:14 | to develop this very interesting program that has to do with art, education, and practice. | 制定这个非常有趣的计划 与艺术、教育和实践有关 |
| 0:21 | This actually also goes well as a first time collaboration between Spurs Gallery and the Yale School of Art Masters of Fine Arts program in painting and printmaking. | 这实际上也是Spurs美术馆和耶鲁艺术大师学院美术硕士计划在绘画和印刷方面的第一次合作. |
| 0:34 | Am I, did I have it right? | 我说得对吗? |
| 0:36 | So I really do hope that this would be a long time collaboration and that we would be able to have at least programming like these every year in conversations such as these. | 因此,我确实希望这将会是一个很长一段时间的合作, 并且我们至少可以每年在这样的对话中进行这样的编程。 |
| 0:48 | So without further ado, I'm going to turn this over to Sherry Lai, partner at Spurs Gallery, to introduce some of our, to introduce all of our panelists. | 因此,不用再多说,我打算把这个交给Spurs画廊的合伙人Sherry Lai, 介绍我们的一些,介绍我们所有的讨论小组成员。 |
| 1:00 | I'll quickly name them for you. | 我很快会给你起名字的 |
| 1:03 | Hans, hold thought. | 汉斯,保持思考。 |
| 1:06 | Yeah, that's it. | 是的,就是这样。 |
| 1:10 | Tura Oliveira, who is a Yale School of Art graduate. | 图拉·奥利维拉(Tura Oliveira),是耶鲁艺术学院毕业生. |
展开字幕全文（428 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Today we are very happy to be able to collaborate with Spurs Gallery in Beijing, Sherry Lai and her team | 今天我们很高兴能与北京的Spurs美术馆、Sherry Lai和她的团队合作 |
| 2 | to develop this very interesting program that has to do with art, education, and practice. | 制定这个非常有趣的计划 与艺术、教育和实践有关 |
| 3 | This actually also goes well as a first time collaboration between Spurs Gallery and the Yale School of Art Masters of Fine Arts program in painting and printmaking. | 这实际上也是Spurs美术馆和耶鲁艺术大师学院美术硕士计划在绘画和印刷方面的第一次合作. |
| 4 | Am I, did I have it right? | 我说得对吗? |
| 5 | So I really do hope that this would be a long time collaboration and that we would be able to have at least programming like these every year in conversations such as these. | 因此,我确实希望这将会是一个很长一段时间的合作, 并且我们至少可以每年在这样的对话中进行这样的编程。 |
| 6 | So without further ado, I'm going to turn this over to Sherry Lai, partner at Spurs Gallery, to introduce some of our, to introduce all of our panelists. | 因此,不用再多说,我打算把这个交给Spurs画廊的合伙人Sherry Lai, 介绍我们的一些,介绍我们所有的讨论小组成员。 |
| 7 | I'll quickly name them for you. | 我很快会给你起名字的 |
| 8 | Hans, hold thought. | 汉斯,保持思考。 |
| 9 | Yeah, that's it. | 是的,就是这样。 |
| 10 | Tura Oliveira, who is a Yale School of Art graduate. | 图拉·奥利维拉(Tura Oliveira),是耶鲁艺术学院毕业生. |
| 11 | Li Wei Yi, Wei Yi Li, also a Yale School of Art graduate. | 李伟 Yi,魏 Yi,也是耶鲁艺术学院毕业生. |
| 12 | And Hattie Lapshu, all artists. | 还有哈蒂·拉普修 所有艺术家 |
| 13 | And let's give them a round of applause. | 让我们给他们掌声 |
| 14 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 15 | Thank you, Joel. | 谢谢你,乔尔。 |
| 16 | Thank you for the introduction. | 谢谢你的介绍。 |
| 17 | And hello, good afternoon, everyone. | 大家好,下午好,大家好 |
| 18 | 我叫Sherry Lai 我是Spurs画廊的合伙人 | |
| 19 | Thank you all for joining us here today. | 感谢大家参加今天的会议。 |
| 20 | We will have time for questions at the end of the panel and I will begin introducing our speakers today. | 在小组讨论结束时,我们将有时间提问,我今天将开始介绍我们的发言者。 |
| 21 | So our first speaker, Tura Oliveira, she was born in Fall River, USA. | 第一位演讲者图拉·奥利维拉出生于美国法尔河. |
| 22 | She received her BFA from the River Island School of Design in 2013 and an MFA from the Yale School of Art this year. | 她于2013年从河岛设计学院获得她的BFA,今年从耶鲁艺术学院获得一个MFA. |
| 23 | Tura is a multidisciplinary artist whose work spans textiles, sculpture, installation, and performance. | 图拉是一名多学科艺术家,他的作品涉及纺织、雕塑、安装和表演。 |
| 24 | She uses a dual language of craft and science fiction to center marginalized visual culture, including that of the queer communities and Latinist leftist political movements. | 她使用手艺和科幻的双重语言,以边缘化视觉文化为中心,包括同性恋社区和拉丁左翼政治运动. |
| 25 | And Tura has had solo exhibitions at the Gary Contemporary, La Mama Galleria, Brick, Wave Hill, these are all in New York, and the solo booth at the 2023 Material Art Fair in Mexico City. | 而图拉曾在加里当代,拉马玛·加勒里亚,布里克,波山等地举办过独奏展览,这些展览都在纽约,在墨西哥城的2023年材料艺术展上举办独奏展厅. |
| 26 | And our second speaker, a Yale woman named Wei Yi Li, she was born in Changsha, China in 1987. | 而我们的第二位演说家,一位名叫魏 Yi丽的耶鲁女子,1987年出生于中国长沙. |
| 27 | She received a BA from the College of Architecture and Urban Planning in Tongji University in 2009, an MFA from the Yale School of Art in 2012, and a PhD from the Royal College of Art in 2023. | 她2009年获通济大学建筑与城市规划学院学士学位,2012年获耶鲁艺术学院硕士学位,2023年获皇家艺术学院博士学位. |
| 28 | Much of her work has been influenced by her decade-long career as a designer and also an image maker. | 她的大部分作品都受到了她长达十年的设计师和形象制作师生涯的影响. |
| 29 | She has reflected on the question of how we, as creators, can continue to create in a world dominated by increasingly similar digital image tools and publications. | 她反思了我们作为创造者如何在日益相似的数字图像工具和出版物所支配的世界中继续创造的问题。 |
| 30 | Our third speaker and ultimate artist, Tantian, he received his BFA from the Kingston University in London and his MFA from Hunter College in 2019. | 我们的第三位演讲人和终极艺术家坦蒂安于2019年在伦敦金斯顿大学获得他的BFA,在亨特学院获得他的MFA. |
| 31 | He's now a teacher teaching the undergrads at the CAFA in Beijing, and through his works, Mr. Tan tries to show the viewers the positive things that they expect, those that they ignore and those they tend to overlook and avoid at all times. | 现在他还是北京CAFA的教师,通过他的作品,谭先生试图向观众展示他们期望的积极的东西,他们忽略的东西,以及他们总是忽略和回避的东西. |
| 32 | And our last speaker, Mr. Hans Werner Holtzwith, he's a book designer and editor based in Berlin. | 最后一位演讲人,汉斯·维尔纳·霍尔茨维兹先生,他是一位位于柏林的书设计师和编辑. |
| 33 | He, in 1993, became a freelance art director for publisher Scalo, and in 2000, he funded his own imprint, the Holtzwith publication, to work with contemporary artist books and exhibition catalogs for galleries. | 1993年,他成为出版商斯卡罗的自由艺术总监,2000年,他资助自己的印记"Holtzwith"出版,与当代艺术家书籍和展览目录合作,用于画廊. |
| 34 | The most recent imprints published, working with our gallery, are Lignu and Zimbaila. | 最近与我们的画廊合作出版的印记是Lignu和Zimbaila。 |
| 35 | I think those are circling around in the room. | 我想他们正在房间里盘旋 |
| 36 | And Mr. Holtzwith has also been editing oversized monographs and limit art editions for Tantian, collaborating with the most world-renowned artists, Jeff Koons and Hockney, to name a few. | Holtzwith先生也一直在编辑过量的专著,并限制谭蒂安的艺术版,与世界最知名的艺术家Jeff Koons和Hockney合作,举几个例子. |
| 37 | Tools, that's okay. | 工具,没关系。 |
| 38 | That's okay, don't make too much noise. | 没关系,别吵了 |
| 39 | Alright, so I'm going to start with Tura. | 好吧,所以我要从图拉开始。 |
| 40 | I'm going to begin with you by asking you some questions. | 我首先要问你一些问题 |
| 41 | So Tura, can you tell us a little bit about your area of focus, what brought you to Yale? | 杜拉,你能告诉我们一下你的焦点吗? 什么让你来到耶鲁? |
| 42 | And, you know, because we all know the selectivity and the rigorous programming in Yale can be, you know, very tough. | 而且,你知道,因为我们都知道 耶鲁的选择性和严格的程序 可以是,你知道,非常艰难的。 |
| 43 | And we wanted to know, you know, how this exhibition came to place and, you know, a little insight from you representing the class here in Beijing. | 我们想知道,你知道,这个展览是如何展开的, 以及,你知道,一个你代表北京的班级的一点见解。 |
| 44 | Yeah, so I, as I've been sharing, thank you for the introduction. | 是啊,所以我,我一直在分享, 谢谢你的介绍。 |
| 45 | It was very thorough. | 非常彻底 |
| 46 | I went to the Radat School of Design and I graduated in 2013. | 曾就读于拉达特设计学院,2013年毕业. |
| 47 | And then I was in New York for a while, showing and making work. | 然后我在纽约呆了一段时间, 展示和工作。 |
| 48 | And then I kind of, I got to a point and was researching graduate schools and Yale was always the top of my list because, partially because of its relationship and like very long-standing relationship with the New York art scene, but also because of its h | 后来,我到了一个点,正在研究研究生,耶鲁总是我排在前列, 部分原因是因为它的关系 和纽约的艺术场景有着很长的关系, 但也因为它是一位纺织艺术家 和一位在美术和工艺之间工作的人。 |
| 49 | The history that the school has with like Joseph and Annie Albers was really important to me. | 学校的历史就像约瑟夫和安妮·阿尔伯斯 对我很重要 |
| 50 | And it's a pretty unique, it holds a pretty unique position, sort of like the history of the relationship between fine art and craft in terms of education in the United States. | 这是一个相当独特的,它具有相当独特的地位, 类似于美术和工艺在美国教育方面的关系的历史。 |
| 51 | Yale is where Joseph Albers went after, like I think. | 耶鲁是约瑟夫·阿尔伯斯所追求的地方,就像我想的那样. |
| 52 | And so how is it sort of like my path to Yale and then the path to doing the show was that, you know, Sharon reached out to our class and we, you know, Sharon started maybe like May of this year. | 所以,这怎么像我的路 耶鲁 然后做这个节目的路径 是,你知道,沙龙 伸出我们的课堂,我们,你知道,沙龙 开始也许像今年的5月。 |
| 53 | Or was it like right after sort of like restrictions were lifted in terms of like being able to visit, you know, being able to visit China. | 或者说它就像在像能够访问中国一样 被取消了限制之后 |
| 54 | And so we, you know, we began speaking with Sharon, we organized the show and it's, I don't know, it's really special to have like been working with all of my classmates for two years now at this point. | 所以,你知道,我们开始和Sharon谈话, 我们组织了这个节目, 我不知道,它真的很特别, 像一直和我所有同学一起工作了两年 现在这个时候。 |
| 55 | And in fact, about half of the class, like I applied to the school at the beginning of 2020 and about half of us actually deferred. | 事实上,大约一半的班级, 就像我在2020年初申请到学校, 大约一半的人实际上推迟了。 |
| 56 | And so some of these students, people I've known for three years now at this point. | 所以,有些学生,我认识三年了, 此时此刻。 |
| 57 | And so we all know each other's work really well and putting the show together. | 所以我们都非常了解对方的工作, 并且把节目集中起来。 |
| 58 | I don't know, it feels really special, especially that, you know, this work has traveled literally around the world to get here and then to have this kind of a conversation, a relationship with, you know, the contemporary art scene right now, | 我不知道,这感觉真的很特别, 特别是,你知道,这部作品 已经周游全球 来到这里,然后有这种对话, 关系,你知道, 当代的艺术场景, |
| 59 | in Beijing, specifically with, you know, us as artists who are very much emerging, like, you know, we just graduated from graduate school. | (笑声) 在北京,特别是,你知道,我们作为艺术家, 他们正在非常新兴, 比如,你知道,我们刚刚从研究生院毕业。 |
| 60 | Do you want to tell us a little bit about your practice? | 你想告诉我们一些你的做法吗? |
| 61 | Oh yeah, absolutely. | 当然 |
| 62 | Yeah, so I'm primarily a textile artist. | 是啊,所以我主要是一个纺织艺术家。 |
| 63 | I have to work with metals. | 我必须用金属工作。 |
| 64 | And my work, it deals a lot with, you know, science fiction, ideas of sort of like the most, what I would call like the monstrous feminine. | 我的工作,它涉及很多,你知道的,科幻小说, 想法的种类最像, 我会称之为可怕的女性。 |
| 65 | And working primarily with quilting as an art form, particularly as like not only a very like American folk art form, but also this art form that's extremely universal, that is like, I would say maybe, you know, the only sort of medium that's maybe more u | 主要是把被子当作一种艺术形式, 特别是像美国民间艺术形式, 还有这种极其普遍的艺术形式, 比如,我想说,也许,你知道, 唯一一种可能比被子更普遍的媒介是陶瓷。 |
| 66 | And so I, you know, use hand-dyed silk in many different forms to create sculptures and quilts and installations. | 所以我,你知道的,用许多不同形式的手工制成的丝绸 来创造雕塑和被子和装置。 |
| 67 | And also, you know, the area that I grew up in is sort of has a long history of textile production. | 而且,你知道,我成长的地区 有点有纺织生产的长期历史。 |
| 68 | And my father growing up was a steel worker. | 我父亲从小就是钢铁工人 |
| 69 | And so for me, having pieces that blend, you know, cast and hand-worked metal and then also, you know, silk and quilted silk has this sort of relationship both to gender and also to sort of my family history and the history of, you know, sort of like fact | 因此,对于我来说, 拥有混合的碎片,你知道, 铸造和手工加工的金属, 然后,你知道,丝绸和被子丝 有着这种关系 既与性别的关系, 也排序我的家庭历史, 以及,你知道, 那种像工厂和工厂工人的历史, |
| 70 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 71 | And I know it was a class. | 我知道那是个课 |
| 72 | I think I remember we discussed about the exhibition. | 我还记得我们讨论过展览的事 |
| 73 | You guys had a really fun, you know, naming the exhibition, you know, contest per se. | 你们玩得很开心,你知道, 命名展览,你知道,竞赛本身。 |
| 74 | You know, do you want to tell us a little bit about how that came about and, you know, who won and what happened? | 你知道,你想告诉我们一点点 如何发生,你知道,谁赢了,发生了什么事? |
| 75 | Yeah, I mean, we, we had, we had basically this thesis class that we would meet every other week. | 是啊,我的意思是,我们,我们有, 我们基本上有这个论文课 我们每隔一周会见面。 |
| 76 | And we had one thesis class with kind of like a knockdown drag out. | 我们有一个论文课, 有点像一个敲门拖出。 |
| 77 | Like, we are narrowing down, you know, our list of titles down to, I think, like five to present to you. | 像,我们正在缩小,你知道, 我们的标题列表 下到,我认为,像五个 向你介绍。 |
| 78 | And a breath on glass was, was Brian, Brian Olesanchos, who's one of my classmates and has this like beautiful self-portrait in the show. | 玻璃上的呼吸是布莱恩, 布莱恩·奥莱桑乔斯, 他是我的同学之一, 并且有这个像美丽的自画像 在节目。 |
| 79 | This was his title. | 这是他的头衔。 |
| 80 | And this was like, he held on to it first and like really, really, really made the case for this title. | 这就像,他坚持了它 首先,并且像真的,真的, 真正为这个标题做了说明。 |
| 81 | And then when we presented Sherry with, I think we narrowed it down to like a list of three to send to you. | 然后当我们把雪利交给你的时候, 我想我们把它缩小到 喜欢一个3个名单 发送给你。 |
| 82 | And then, you know, there was this sort of like long period of time where Sherry, I believe you messaged me and you were like, there's one of these that really speaks to me. | 然后,你知道,有这种 像长时期的雪莉, 我相信你给我发了信息,你喜欢, 有一个这些真正对我说话。 |
| 83 | And then, of course, with like the time difference between the East Coast of the U.S. and Beijing, there was sort of like, I think you sent that message. | 当然,随着美国东海岸和北京之间的时间差, 也有点像, 我认为你发出了这个信息。 |
| 84 | And then we were like on the edge of our seat being like, which one really spoke to Sherry? | 然后我们像在我们座位的边缘 像,哪一个真的 与雪莉说话? |
| 85 | And then it was Brian was really excited. | 然后是布莱恩很兴奋 |
| 86 | I think it's a really, it's a really good title. | 我认为这是一个真正的, 这是一个非常好的标题。 |
| 87 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 88 | Wei, I was wondering since you graduated from Yale in 2012, a long time ago, and each of your educational background are very different. | 阿伟,我在想自从2012年你从耶鲁大学毕业以来, 很久以前,你们每个人的教育背景都非常不同。 |
| 89 | You know, can you please tell us a little bit about why you transferred from architecture per se to Yale to study graphic design? | 你知道,你能告诉我们一些你为什么从建筑本身转移到耶鲁学习图形设计吗? |
| 90 | And then also you went to UK to study for doctorate and RA. | 之后你又去英国攻读博士和RA. |
| 91 | How did you decide on becoming a professional artist throughout these educational choices? | 你是如何决定成为一名专业艺术家 在整个教育选择? |
| 92 | Well, to be honest, I don't think that shaped my direction in the education process. | 老实说,我不认为 这决定了我的教育方向。 |
| 93 | For example, like when I was at Tulsa University, the School of Architecture and Urban Planning, my path was communication. | 例如,我当时在图尔萨大学,建筑和城市规划学院, 我的道路就是沟通。 |
| 94 | So it's design. | 所以它是设计。 |
| 95 | And when I was at Yale, I was graphic designer. | 当我在耶鲁大学时,我是平面设计师。 |
| 96 | That was like for painting people, but not for other people. | 这就像画人, 但不是其他人。 |
| 97 | I was someone who made posters, those catalogs. | 我是制作海报的人 那些目录 |
| 98 | website with guys. | 网站与男生。 |
| 99 | And it's also about design. | 也涉及到设计. |
| 100 | So then I went to UK and I got my, doing my PhD here at College of Art and my major is innovation design engineering, which is also design. | 于是我去了英国,我得到了我的博士学位, 在艺术学院,我主修创新设计工程, 也是设计。 |
| 101 | So I think like, normally people will ask me another related question, like, why do you spend so much time on learning design? | 所以我想,通常人们会问我另一个相关的问题, 比如,你为什么花这么多时间在学习设计上? |
| 102 | Because it sounds like a very, very practical thing. | 因为这听起来很实际 |
| 103 | Like, this is like only very bad designer. | 这就像一个非常糟糕的设计师。 |
| 104 | Well, only learning design, instead of doing it. | 嗯,只有学习设计,而不是做它。 |
| 105 | But I think like, for me, the question is to very clear and simple, because design is about how people make things. | 但我认为,对我来说,问题在于非常清楚和简单, 因为设计就是人们如何创造事物。 |
| 106 | And if you do research into design, you're actually learning how people make things. | 如果你对设计进行研究, 你实际上正在学习人们是如何创造事物的。 |
| 107 | And you can get patents. | 你可以得到专利。 |
| 108 | When you learn from these patents, you can just understand who you are as human beings. | 当你从这些专利中学习时,你可以仅仅了解自己作为人类的身份. |
| 109 | So that's simple. | 很简单 |
| 110 | And so for the second question, why I choose to be an artist, professional artist? | 第二个问题,为什么我选择成为艺术家,专业艺术家? |
| 111 | I mean, throughout the process. | 我的意思是,整个过程。 |
| 112 | Okay, so for this question, I think I didn't choose to be a designer. | 好吧,所以对于这个问题, 我想我没有选择成为一个设计师。 |
| 113 | I think the starting point is like, when I was still a design student, I want to make those tiny little things such as my jewelry or tiny objects and then post them online. | 我想起点是, 当我还是个设计学生的时候, 我想做一些小东西,比如我的珠宝或小物品, 然后在网上张贴。 |
| 114 | And then some curators, gallerists will find me on my social networks site. | 然后一些馆长,艺人会在我的社交网络网站上找到我. |
| 115 | And they text message me say, Do you do you want to share a piece in a gallery space? | 他们发短信给我说 你想在画廊里分享一块吗? |
| 116 | So that's how this thing is beginning. | 事情就是这样开始的。 |
| 117 | So I was like, I do not decide to be I do not make the choice to be an artist. | 所以我想,我不做决定 做一个艺术家。 |
| 118 | I am the chosen one. | 我是被选中的 |
| 119 | That's a joke. | 开个玩笑 |
| 120 | Yep. | 对 |
| 121 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 122 | So, Tantia, I know that you took your first year undergrad in the UK. | Tantia 我知道你在英国读了第一年大学 |
| 123 | And when you returned to China, it was very unusual and unique that you went to work in a gallery to learn about the art industry in China, and then you went to the states to, to progress. | 回到中国后,你到一个画廊工作 了解中国的艺术产业, 然后去美国,进步,这是非常不寻常和独特的。 |
| 124 | And, I mean, both of your degrees are in fine arts. | 你们俩的学位都是美术 |
| 125 | But, you know, when did you decide the same question that goes the way he was, when did you decide on becoming a professional artist? | 但是,你知道,你什么时候决定了同样的问题 进入他的方式, 你什么时候决定成为一个专业的艺术家? |
| 126 | Because, you know, for a gallerist like me, it really intrigues one people, you know, the artists decide to work in a gallery. | 因为,你知道, 对于像我这样的画家来说, 它真的很有趣一个人, 你知道,艺术家们决定 在画廊工作。 |
| 127 | It's very threatening for him. | 这对他的威胁很大 |
| 128 | So yeah. | 对啊 |
| 129 | To be honest, I haven't decided to become a, because I think I'm a, I am a teacher right now. | 老实说,我还没有决定成为一个, 因为我觉得我是一个, 我现在是一个老师。 |
| 130 | And I am a teacher right now. | 我现在是老师 |
| 131 | And like being a teacher is actually my dream job. | 做老师是我的梦想 |
| 132 | And to me, being a good teacher is not only like, it's not about how you taught the student in the classroom. | 对我而言,做一个好老师 不仅仅是你是如何在课堂上教学生的。 |
| 133 | It's also about what you do, like as a sample to the student. | 也是关于你的工作,比如作为学生的样本. |
| 134 | So that's the reason why I want to have shows, why I want to be part of the art world. | 所以这就是为什么我想有表演,为什么我想成为艺术界的一部分。 |
| 135 | So just to show my student that I am not only good at criticizing the classroom. | 所以只是让我的学生知道我不仅擅长批评课堂。 |
| 136 | So do you want to tell us a little bit about, you know, what kind of courses that you're teaching at CAFA right now, you know, what your students are teaching, you know, what kind of disciplines, area of focus? | 所以,你想告诉我们一点,你知道, 你正在CAFA教什么课程, 你知道,你的学生教什么,你知道, 什么类型的学科, 重点领域? |
| 137 | So you've been in CAFA for quite some years. | 所以,你已经在CAFA很多年。 |
| 138 | Yeah, I'm teaching a lot of talks, but I mean, like, for example, yesterday, I take all my students to IKEA and to ask them to feel the IKEA vibe and to make them compare this kind of all the products around them and compare that to the gallery. | 是的,我教了很多演讲, 但我的意思是,比如,昨天, 我带我所有的学生去宜家, 让他们感受宜家的氛围, 让他们把周围的这类产品 和画廊进行比较。 |
| 139 | Like, what's the difference between that? | 喜欢,有什么区别呢? |
| 140 | So that's actually my class, yesterday class. | 那其实是我的课 昨天的课 |
| 141 | I mean, like, but I think you, do you ask me about the work in the gallery experience? | 我的意思是,喜欢,但我认为你, 你问我 关于工作 在画廊的经验? |
| 142 | I think like that's like really helpful, because that's the experience that I used to work in the gallery helped me a lot to understand what a gallery wants from the artist and also as an artist, what would I do? | 我觉得这真的很有帮助, 因为我以前在画廊里工作的经验 帮助我了解画廊想要艺术家做什么, 作为艺术家,我该怎么办? |
| 143 | And how far I can push this line as you can represent a gallery. | 我还能用你代表画廊的方式 推动这条线有多远 |
| 144 | Great. | 不错 |
| 145 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 146 | Okay, Hans, can you tell us a little bit on your practice as a renowned art publisher? | 好吧,汉斯,你能告诉我们一点 你作为著名艺术出版社的练习吗? |
| 147 | And because you work with so many artists, you know, both in Germany and abroad, you know, recently in China a lot. | 因为你和很多艺术家一起工作, 在德国和国外, 最近在中国也有很多。 |
| 148 | You know, which of them do you find that has those interesting art educational backgrounds or even so, like, art educational background in general that shaped them to become a professional artist, you know, through your interactions with them? | 你知道,你发现其中哪一个 有这些有趣的艺术教育背景 或者甚至,比如, 艺术教育背景 在一般, |
| 149 | Sure. | 当然 |
| 150 | How to start? | 怎样开始? |
| 151 | Let's say just a little bit as a background. | 略说为背景. |
| 152 | I learned photography, and then I studied graphic design or studied photography, then graphic design, and I always was interested in the short story, because otherwise we are really, we are before the computer started to be novel. | 我学习了摄影,然后我学习了图形设计或摄影,然后是图形设计, 我总是对短篇故事感兴趣, 因为否则我们真的,我们是在电脑开始成为小说之前。 |
| 153 | So I really wanted always to do editorial. | 所以我一直想做社论 |
| 154 | So that has to do with photography, but also like in general, like how images goes together as a discussion about the workflow, what one image does to the other image, and that's what you're basically doing in the book. | 所以,这和摄影有关, 但也和一般的一样, 比如图像如何作为工作流程的讨论一起进行, 一个图像对另一个图像做什么, 这就是你基本上在书中做的事。 |
| 155 | But at the end, as a designer or like more like a typographer, I'm a translator of the material I'm given, but I'm not a translator in a just like one-to-one translation because I have to make an interpretation and nail it down so the audience is understa | 但最后,作为设计师或更像打字员,我还是我所给的材料的翻译者,但是我并不是像一对一一样翻译的翻译者,因为我必须做一个口译,并把它钉下来,这样观众就明白艺术家对世界的方法,他的对世界的描绘. |
| 156 | And over the year, in the beginning, I was mainly working with my peer group, like Christopher Bull, Albert Oehlen, Jeff Kuhn, so they're all my age, so you're knowing where we are, but in which generation we are talking about. | 这一年,在开始的时候,我主要与我的同伴团体合作, 比如克里斯托弗·布尔,阿尔伯特·奥埃伦,杰夫·库恩,所以他们都是我的年龄, 所以你知道我们在哪里,但是我们谈论的是哪个世代。 |
| 157 | It's really before the computer came up. | 在电脑出现之前 |
| 158 | And so, of course, this was very close, because when I was studying, studying was the idea of a free space, and compared to now, I was always saying to myself, before I'm 30, I'm not starting to work, I'm just doing things. | 所以,当然,这是非常接近的,因为当我学习的时候, 学习是自由空间的理念, 与现在相比,我总是对自己说, 在我30岁之前,我不是开始工作,我只是在做事情。 |
| 159 | And because I was working, I was working in the photo studio, I was working in the design studio, I became partner with 31 of the big design studios, but I'm really in this kind of very profound classic to corporate designers. | 因为我在工作,我在摄影室工作,我在设计室工作, 我成为了31个大设计室的合伙人, 但我真的在这种 公司设计师非常深刻的经典。 |
| 160 | So already before I did books, I had this kind of career as a corporate designer in a very typography-orientated way, but I was always looking, looking, looking. | 所以在我写书之前, 我有一个很注重印刷技术的公司设计师, 但我总是在寻找,寻找,寻找。 |
| 161 | And accident is a nice word, because you're always looking for the accident, so I had the luck in the 90s to meet Scarlo, Walter Keller, and we created a new photography book, and also kind of a new approach to work with photographers. | 意外是一个很好的词,因为你总是在寻找事故的发生, 所以我在90年代有幸见到了斯卡罗,沃尔特·凯勒, 我们创作了一本新的摄影书籍, 也是一种与摄影师合作的新方法。 |
| 162 | And in this case, I could work with all my heroes. | 这样的话 我可以和所有英雄一起工作 |
| 163 | I did Robert Frank, I did Larry Clark, I did Nan Golding, all those things when I was studying photography, oh wow, and that is in the same age as me, but it's a little bit like a similar thing. | 我做了罗伯特·弗兰克,我做了拉里·克拉克,我做了南戈丁, 当我学习摄影的时候, 哦哇,那和我年龄一样, 但有点像类似的东西。 |
| 164 | So it was a good starting point to go into their world, meet them, talk to them, and getting more and more into the photography history, but from my study I was in the photography history, I was totally in. | 因此,进入他们的世界,遇见他们,与他们交谈, 并越来越深入到摄影史上, 是一个很好的起点。 但从我的研究中,我完全融入了摄影史。 |
| 165 | Art history was parallel world, so this was like another discussion with reality. | 艺术史是平行的世界, 所以这就像另一个讨论 与现实。 |
| 166 | So like working with the photographers is always a question about reality, the mirroring the world, and how you put it in the book, which means if you have white space, then it's a poem, if you have like bleeding, then you are in the world. | 所以和摄影师们合作,总是一个关于现实,镜像世界的问题,以及你怎样把它放进书中,也就是说如果你有白色的空间,那它就是一首诗,如果你喜欢流血,那么你就在世界上了. |
| 167 | So and that's what you basically, the borders, you are dealing with the world. | 所以,这就是你基本上,边界, 你处理的世界。 |
| 168 | But at a certain point, it was too much reality discussion for myself. | 但是,在某一时刻,对于我自己来说,这是太多的现实讨论。 |
| 169 | I didn't want it always like, oh, this photo was taken in this moment, it was so important, it was the best world, it just couldn't stand it anymore. | 我不想它总是喜欢, 哦,这张照片是拍摄 在这个时刻, 它是如此重要, 这是最好的世界, 它只是无法忍受了。 |
| 170 | So I really like to be more in the world of creation, and that doesn't mean that photography is not creation, but it's another, photography means you are having a kind of a relationship with the world you are taking, while with art you are in another medi | 所以,我真的很喜欢在创造的世界里, 这并不意味着摄影不是创造, 但这是另一种,摄影意味着 你和你正在拍摄的世界有某种关系, 而与艺术 你正在另一个媒体世界, 否则摄影就不会是媒体摄影, 如果你没有这种联系的话。 |
| 171 | And from there, yeah, then it started with the first book with Christopher Bull, which was an exhibition catalog for the Museum of Modern Art, and I think 97, and from there it turned more and more into doing art books, that doesn't mean that photography | 从那里,是的,然后它开始与克里斯托弗·布尔的第一本书, 它是现代艺术博物馆的展览目录, 我想是97, 从那里,它越来越变成了艺术书籍, 这并不意味着摄影书籍不是艺术书籍。 |
| 172 | And so in the beginning, I started like saying studying was for us free space, it was the time of punk, it was the time of using all the materials, you don't have to be educated, it's like the dilettantes, you're just like doing something. | 所以在开始的时候,我开始说 学习是为我们自由的空间, 是朋克时代, 是使用所有材料的时候, 你不需要受过教育, 这就像 dilettantes, 你只是喜欢做一些事情。 |
| 173 | And it was more like, there are the punks, they are also coming from the university, but it was more about the behavior to the material, to the uneducational point, and also you want to cut off the narration from the history, you had the painters coming u | 更像是,有朋克,他们也从大学来, 但更多的是行为到材料,到不教育的地步, 还有你想从历史中切断叙述, 你让画家们上来,再把他画出来。 |
| 174 | And so when I'm looking, this peer group, Jeff Kuhn studied, but Christopher Bull never really studied, but also he's related to a kind of studying, then he was assistant to an artist, so they all have a kind of connection, but what's all the thing is, th | 所以当我看的时候,这个同龄人组,杰夫·库恩(Jeff Kuhn)学习过,但克里斯托弗·布尔(Christopher Bull)从来没有真正学习过, 但也与某种学习有关, 然后他是一个艺术家的助手, 所以他们都有某种联系, 但最重要的是,他们想早点学习。 |
| 175 | And I think that the best story we described it is a little bit like I heard about the Rolling Stones, they just, they didn't know in the beginning to play, but they heard like south of records, and they just tried to find the sound. | 我认为我们描述的最好的故事 有点像我听到的滚石乐队, 他们只是,他们不知道在开始演奏, 但他们听到的像唱片的南部, 他们只是试图找到声音。 |
| 176 | And that's what I learned with whatever, Christopher Bull, Alvar, they're just working, and then there was a moment when they said, okay, that's my body of work. | 我学到了什么,克里斯托弗·布尔,阿尔瓦, 他们只是工作, 然后有一刻,他们说,好吧,这是我的工作体。 |
| 177 | It's totally different like when I'm looking at the older artists like David Hockney or Baselitz, because they have a totally different educational history, and these are artists, they are like, David Hockney is for me the most kind of amazing person, bec | 这完全不同,就像我看着 大卫·霍克尼或巴塞利茨等年长的艺术家, 因为他们的教育历史完全不同, 他们都是艺术家, 他们喜欢,大卫·霍克尼 对我来说是最了不起的人, 因为从早期, 即使有12,13, 他一直在画画。 |
| 178 | It's always, get it better, look harder, look closer, yeah, do it, and then the teacher said, no, it's not good, do it again, just do it, and then like these stories, and when you look at his history, like early, the early drawings are amazing. | 总是这样,变好,变硬,看得更近,是的,做起来,然后老师说,不好,再做一次,再做一次,然后喜欢这些故事,当你看他的历史,像早期一样,早期的绘画是惊人的. |
| 179 | And like the best story he was saying, oh, from the school we had to go out in today's life and take, draw a picture with three people. | 就像他所说的最好的故事, 哦,从学校里我们不得不在今天的生活中出去, 和三个人一起画一幅画。 |
| 180 | Oh, I went to the laundry, and I painted five. | 哦,我去洗衣房, 我画了五个。 |
| 181 | So that means they want it, yeah, and it's similar to Baselitz, but they're both went through classical kind of art education, but definitely at a different time. | 所以,这意味着他们想要它,是的,它与巴塞利茨相似, 但他们都经过了古典式的艺术教育, 但肯定在不同的时间。 |
| 182 | I'm just a generation later, and for us, studying was a free space to create, to find something, to make experiments. | 我只是一代人后, 对我们来说, 学习是一个自由的空间 创造,寻找, 制造实验。 |
| 183 | When I think briefly in teaching, but in design, and I was surprised how less experimental things happening, because we were in the school, but it was more outside the school. | 当我在教学上作简短的思考,但在设计上,我感到惊讶的是,实验性的事情发生得少了,因为我们在学校,但在学校之外的情况更多。 |
| 184 | It was like meeting artists, going to exhibitions, but it was a different time. | 这就像会见艺术家, 去展览, 但这是一个不同的时间。 |
| 185 | There was, when we got a book from Abrams about one artist, it was one book about this artist. | 当我们从Abrams那里得到一本关于一位艺术家的书时, 这是一本关于这位艺术家的书。 |
| 186 | Now we have 10 books about this artist, yeah. | 现在我们有10本关于这个艺术家的书,是的。 |
| 187 | So, but from the experience, they all wanted it deeply to do it, and they're always looking for and finding their voice. | 因此,但是从经验来看,他们都希望它深深地完成,他们总是在寻找和寻找自己的声音. |
| 188 | So that's maybe how it gets the kind of big bow back to the question. | 所以也许这就是它是如何 得到那种大弓回问题。 |
| 189 | I think what you wanted to comment on. | 我想你想谈什么 |
| 190 | No, no. | 没有,没有。 |
| 191 | Because you also did a lot of graphic design, designing, so when Monsi was mentioning about the practice and making the copy. | 因为你也做了很多的图形设计,设计,所以当蒙西提到实践和制作复制品时. |
| 192 | Actually, I'm thinking about, I think there is a natural link between photographer and graphic designer. | 实际上,我在想,我认为摄影师和图形设计师之间有自然的联系。 |
| 193 | Because sometimes I feel as a designer, I have this experience if I make a book for a painter or make a book for a photographer. | 因为有时我觉得自己是个设计师, 如果我为画家做一本书, 或者为摄影师做一本书, 我有这种经历。 |
| 194 | Photographer is always the one who is really demanding, can I use the word? | 摄影师总是那个要求很高的人 我能用这个词吗? |
| 195 | You just want someone to, I don't know, a practitioner who can put the thing at a place you want. | 你只是希望有人,我不知道, 一个实践者,谁可以把 东西在一个你想要的地方。 |
| 196 | Sometimes, and sometimes I always think, it's really lots of my photographer friends who finally become a graphic designer. | 有时候,有时我总觉得, 真的是很多我的摄影师朋友 终于成了一个图形设计师。 |
| 197 | Because it seems like, I don't know, you can tell me it's true. | 因为它似乎,我不知道, 你可以告诉我这是真的。 |
| 198 | I always think photographer have this urge of having a photo book. | 我总觉得摄影师有这种冲动 拥有一本照片书。 |
| 199 | But I don't think painters have this urge. | 但我不认为画家有这种冲动。 |
| 200 | I don't know, every photographer has beautiful catalogs or photo books. | 我不知道,每个摄影师都有美丽的目录或图片书. |
| 201 | I don't know. | 师曰. |
| 202 | Yeah, I think so. | 是的,我想是这样。 |
| 203 | It has a lot to do that photographer's practice or what they are looking for is often much more told in an editorial or in a story. | 摄影师的练习或者他们要找的东西 经常在社论或者故事中被讲得更多。 |
| 204 | So the books often translates the works better. | 因此,这些书籍往往能更好地翻译作品. |
| 205 | Because what the book is doing, first of all you get this narration, you get a kind of, turning the page makes one to the other, it's different to the wall. | 因为这本书所做的,首先你得到这个描述,你得到一种,翻页使一个到另一个,这与墙壁不同. |
| 206 | Because the wall, you are the one who is walking. | 因为墙壁,你才是走路的人。 |
| 207 | And it makes a totally other different interaction. | 它使完全不同的相互作用。 |
| 208 | Because you have no cut in between. | 因为你之间没有间断 |
| 209 | But it's you, how are you approaching the work or what's happening in the book. | 但是,是你,你是如何接近工作 或发生什么在书中。 |
| 210 | And the thing is, I grew up with all about the context discussion. | 问题是,我从小讨论背景 |
| 211 | I think the 80s was all about context, like phrasing and picture, what does an underlying or a caption means to the picture. | 我认为80年代是所有的背景, 像是措辞和图片, 是什么基础或标题意味着图片。 |
| 212 | But how does the caption translate the picture to something. | 但标题如何将图片翻译为某种东西. |
| 213 | And it's also what's happening in the book. | 亦是经中所现. |
| 214 | So with the selection in the book, you can make a statement. | 故用书中之选,可作陈述. |
| 215 | And often it's different if you're doing portraits. | 而经常在做肖像画时会有所不同. |
| 216 | But a lot of, they are doing, I don't like when you say like Boys Mikhailov doing social reportaging on Ukraine. | 但是,很多,他们正在做, 我不喜欢当你说 像男孩米哈伊洛夫 做社会报道乌克兰。 |
| 217 | Of course, it's always this attempt to the reality, the moment. | 当然,这总是 这种尝试到现实,那一刻。 |
| 218 | But at the end, the artist like Boys Mikhailov takes it in his reality. | 但最后,像Boys Mikhailov这样的艺术家在现实中取而代之. |
| 219 | And by cutting and cropping, he also using artistic history like iconographic religious thing to make them much more than just the reality. | 通过剪裁和裁剪,他还利用艺术历史,如偶像宗教事物,让这些艺术史远不止于现实. |
| 220 | When he's using the poor people and they are becoming like new standing and becoming a kind of dignity. | 当他利用穷人 他们变得像新的地位 并成为一种尊严。 |
| 221 | So there's another interaction which in the single image wouldn't tell by its own. | 因此,还有一个相互作用,在单一的图像中,它不会用自己的图像来显示。 |
| 222 | So that's why a photo book makes photography so interesting. | 所以摄影本才让摄影这么有趣 |
| 223 | And the classical photo books are artworks. | 古典摄影图书是艺术品。 |
| 224 | So they are artworks by its own. | 因此,它们是自己的艺术品。 |
| 225 | Because like Dr. Frank, the Americans, it's always told in the American. | 因为和弗兰克博士,美国人一样 美国人总是这么说的 |
| 226 | And it's told in this way that the original one shows the photographs very small, like poetic things. | 人们以这种方式告诉大家,原始照片显示的照片非常小,就像诗歌般. |
| 227 | So it's a little like a poetic book about America. | 所以它有点像一本关于美国的诗篇. |
| 228 | And you just go through. | 你只是通过。 |
| 229 | And the first edition of this book was even with a drawing on the outside. | 而这本书的第一版甚至还带有外表的图画. |
| 230 | There was not, I did once a new cover with a flag. | 没有,我曾经用旗帜做过新的封面。 |
| 231 | But in the beginning, it was just a really little, small, poetic book about America. | 但一开始,这只是一本关于美国的 极小的诗篇。 |
| 232 | And it was this kind of poetic approach of Robert Frank to the world, which he later did with a lot of collages, handwritings and things. | 这是罗伯特·弗兰克对世界的这种诗意主义方法,他后来用许多拼写,笔迹和东西做了这个方法. |
| 233 | And so that's why I'm saying Tulsa. | 所以我才说图尔萨 |
| 234 | Tulsa is just like Larry Clark. | 图尔萨就像拉里·克拉克一样. |
| 235 | It's like tough to the life. | 犹如苦乐众生. |
| 236 | Sexual independence for Nangoldi. | 南戈尔迪性独立. |
| 237 | It's only this moment of New York. | 只是纽约的这一刻 |
| 238 | Sorry, it's now a lot of name dropping again. | 抱歉,现在又名声大跌了 |
| 239 | But this is why I think photography is always, a book is a good place for photography because it becomes the work by its own. | 但这就是为什么我认为摄影总是,一本书是摄影的好地方,因为它成为自己的作品。 |
| 240 | I would step because I feel that people have this history of how you say a family album or any kind of album, when you travel or something, it's always something. | 我会步步而去,因为我觉得 人们有这个历史 你如何说家庭专辑 或任何类型的专辑, 当你旅行什么的, 它总是的东西。 |
| 241 | It's by itself. | 由是而来. |
| 242 | And when you do this, you're actually not only documenting, you're just trying to analyze it, you organize it. | 当你这样做的时候,你不仅在记录, 你只是想分析,组织它。 |
| 243 | And finally, it becomes something. | 最后,它变成了某种东西。 |
| 244 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 245 | Thank you for sharing this. | 谢谢你分享这个 |
| 246 | And I want to just loop back, you know, our education to tour up that, you know, because I know of all the three artists here, you know, just graduating. | 我想回过头来,你知道, 我们的教育 巡演,你知道, 因为我知道所有三个艺术家在这里, 你知道,刚毕业。 |
| 247 | And I also wanted to ask about, you know, your plans after graduation. | 我还想问你,你毕业后的计划 |
| 248 | You know, some of the plans, because I know, for instance, you know, time gets teaching, ways to prepare for artists, you know, what are some of the plans for class? | 你知道,一些计划,因为我知道, 例如,你知道,时间得到教学, 如何准备艺术家, 你知道,什么是一些计划 上课? |
| 249 | Do people go to residencies or go to teaching or, you know? | 人们是去住家还是去教书? |
| 250 | Yeah, I think maybe I'll cover like what sort of problem with people and people, you know, students who are in the show ask for a sort of way of doing. | 是啊,我想我也许会 掩盖什么问题 与人和人, 你知道,学生 谁在节目 要求一种做的方式。 |
| 251 | A lot of people just like stay in New Haven for the first year. | 很多人都喜欢在纽黑文度过第一年 |
| 252 | Several students are teaching at the University of Hartford or other, you know, smaller colleges and universities in Connecticut, you know, sort of commuting from New Haven. | 有几个学生在哈特福德大学 或其他,你知道的, 在康涅狄格州较小的学院和大学, 你知道,从纽黑文通勤。 |
| 253 | I try to think most people are staying in sort of like New York, New Haven-ish area and teaching, working, showing work. | 我试着想,大多数人都住在 像纽约,纽黑文地区 和教学,工作,展示工作。 |
| 254 | I'm trying to think. | 我试图思考。 |
| 255 | Nobody. | 没人 |
| 256 | I think most people are sort of staying in the like general sort of Tri-State area. | 我认为大多数人都住在一般的三州区 |
| 257 | I am doing kind of a weird thing, which is that so I've moved back to New York, which is where I was before school. | 我做了一件奇怪的事, 所以我搬回了纽约, 那是我上学前的地方。 |
| 258 | And I have a whole projects going on there in terms of showing work. | 我有一个完整的项目在那里 展示工作。 |
| 259 | I'm working on a public art commission with the New York Public Schools, which is really exciting. | 我和纽约公立学校的艺术委员会合作 非常令人兴奋 |
| 260 | First of all, it's going to open in 2026. | 首先,2026年开通. |
| 261 | It's a very long. | 这是一个非常长。 |
| 262 | It's a really long process, which is fine with me. | 这是一个很长的过程, 这对我很好。 |
| 263 | But also, I've just kind of before leaving to come here, I've like packed up my life in a big way. | 临Τи瞒秨硂玡 碞稱риネ packed眔 |
| 264 | I'm going to be going to a residency in Rome for a year, which is something I've never done before. | 我要去罗马住一年 这是我从未做过的事 |
| 265 | I'm really excited. | 我真的很兴奋。 |
| 266 | And I'm going to be showing work while I'm there. | 我会在那里展示工作。 |
| 267 | And yeah, just going to be studying Rome and showing work and having my studio there. | 是啊,只是要去学习罗马 展示工作,并在那里有我的工作室。 |
| 268 | And yeah, I just finished up a partnership with the London Museum in New York in June. | 是的,我刚刚完成了一个伙伴关系 与伦敦博物馆 在纽约的6月。 |
| 269 | And then, yeah, but for the most part, students are showing work in California. | 之后,是的,但大多数学生都在加州工作。 |
| 270 | There are two students who we're going to be showing. | 有两位学生,我们要展示。 |
| 271 | We're going to be showing work together in Taiwan. | 我们要一起在台湾展示工作 |
| 272 | And yeah, I think people are really like the... | 是的,我觉得人们真的像... |
| 273 | All over the place. | 遍满一切处. |
| 274 | Yeah, absolutely all over the place. | 对 到处都是 |
| 275 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 276 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 277 | And then just going back to Tatian, because Tura was sharing on how a lot of their classmates are going abroad, | 然后回到塔蒂安 因为图拉分享了他们很多同学出国的情况 |
| 278 | or is going to do residencies, or also some of them are, I know, are going back to, like, for instance, | 或将要做居住, 或还有一些,我知道, 正在返回,例如, |
| 279 | you know, kind of really aids you, you know, nowadays that you are a teacher, | 你知道,那种真的帮助你, 你知道,现在你是一个老师, |
| 280 | since you're saying teaching has always been, you know, your first priority. | 既然你说教书一直是你的首要任务 |
| 281 | My answer is no. | 我的回答是没有。 |
| 282 | Sadly. | 很遗憾 |
| 283 | I guess you were expecting us to say yes, but no. | 我猜你是在等我们答应 但是不行 |
| 284 | I mean, learning art in the U.S. and teaching art under the system is just two different things. | 我的意思是,在美国学习艺术和在制度下教授艺术只是两个不同的东西. |
| 285 | And I mean, like, when I was studying in the U.S., I like to talk with my friends. | 我的意思是,比如,当我在美国学习的时候, 我喜欢和我的朋友谈话。 |
| 286 | And we talk about identity, we talk about gender, we talk about politics, we talk about philosophy. | 我们谈论身份,谈论性别,谈论政治,谈论哲学。 |
| 287 | And then, like, we talk about all those things, how that relates to my work. | 然后,像,我们谈论所有这些事情, 如何与我的工作有关。 |
| 288 | And then I do the work. | 然后我做这个工作。 |
| 289 | And then we talk. | 然后我们谈谈。 |
| 290 | Then I do the work. | 那我来做 |
| 291 | Like, I like this kind of, I really enjoy this kind of experience. | 我喜欢这种体验 |
| 292 | But when I come back and start teaching, all I do is I was trying my best to redesign a class | 但是当我回来开始教书时 我所做的就是尽力重新设计一个班级 |
| 293 | to keep my students still interested in contemporary art. | 保持我的学生对当代艺术的兴趣。 |
| 294 | You know, like, I have a class, like, I was going and asking the first question is, | 你知道,喜欢,我有课, 像,我要去问的第一个问题是, |
| 295 | like, how many of you guys want to be artists in the future? | 你们有多少人想成为未来的艺术家? |
| 296 | And I guess, like, there are 20 of them. | 我想,大概有20个 |
| 297 | And there's only one student said she might want me. | 只有一个学生说她可能想要我 |
| 298 | And it's like, it's art school, right? | 这就像,这是艺术学校,对不对? |
| 299 | And the rest of the students are really just really happy that they finally get rid of the high school | 剩下的学生真的很高兴 他们终于摆脱了高中 |
| 300 | and move on to their next stage, a kind of, like, really popular school. | 然后进入他们的下一阶段, 一种,像,真的受欢迎的学校。 |
| 301 | And so I guess, no, I mean, like, teaching and learning are, like, it's different. | 所以我猜,不,我的意思是, 像,教学和学习一样, 这是不同的。 |
| 302 | And China and U.S. are different. | 而中国和美国则不同. |
| 303 | And the world of art is different in these two places. | 而艺术世界在这两个地方是不同的. |
| 304 | Great. | 不错 |
| 305 | I mean, the difference does definitely exist. | 我的意思是,区别确实存在。 |
| 306 | I'm going to go back to Hans now. | 我现在要回汉斯了 |
| 307 | Oh, that's not the most difficult question. | 哦,这不是最困难的问题。 |
| 308 | Well, I guess what I wanted to ask is that also, you know, out of personal curiosity too, | 我想问的是 也是出于个人好奇 |
| 309 | because you work with a lot of artists, you know, in art gallery as well, and in China. | 因为你和很多艺术家一起工作, 你知道,在艺术画廊, 在中国。 |
| 310 | And you, you know, the Chinese industry, artists very well, I would say. | 而你,你知道,中国的工业, 艺术家非常好,我会说。 |
| 311 | You know, and what are your perceptions on, you know, just kind of, like, also looking back to kind of, | 你知道,什么是你的感知, 你知道,只是那种,喜欢, 也回顾那种, |
| 312 | like, Chang Tian's answer to education and how he's teaching and, I mean, | 像,长天的回答 教育,他是如何教,我的意思是, |
| 313 | your perception on the emerging artists, the art scene in China nowadays. | 你对新兴艺术家的看法, 中国当代的艺术场景。 |
| 314 | I said it's a very difficult question. | 我说这是一个非常困难的问题。 |
| 315 | Because I just feel be more like a volunteer when I'm doing things. | 因为我在做事时觉得自己更像个志愿者 |
| 316 | So it's, and of course I'm here since years and I'm coming two times a year. | 所以,当然,我在这里从几年, 我每年来两次。 |
| 317 | But I wouldn't, as I said, I would call me I'm a bookmaker. | 但我不会,就像我说的, 我会叫我是一个书商。 |
| 318 | So I'm not a researcher as a curator or, like, trying to collect or, like, | 所以,我不是研究者 作为管理者 或者,像,试图收集 或者,喜欢, |
| 319 | I want to have the new blue chip and buy it and then can sell it. | 我想买新的蓝芯片 然后可以卖掉 |
| 320 | So it's a totally different story. | 所以,这是一个完全不同的故事。 |
| 321 | So for me, it's always like, oh, how I react, what I have to learn, do I understand it? | 因此,对我来说,它总是 像,哦,我的反应,我必须学习什么, 我理解它吗? |
| 322 | And so in the first time when I came to China to understand this kind of non-European understanding of high art was a big step. | 所以当我第一次来到中国 来理解这种非欧洲人 对高艺术的理解 是一个很大的步骤。 |
| 323 | So that, in a way, art and craft is the same thing than art. | 因此,在某种程度上,艺术和工艺与艺术是相同的。 |
| 324 | And coming back with this overloaded European history, which is a religious history, | 回到了这个超载的欧洲历史, 这是一个宗教历史, |
| 325 | it comes from Greek history, going back now to democracy. | 它来自希腊历史, 现在回到民主。 |
| 326 | So it's really going from kind of rural things to today's society, but it's so linked. | 所以,它真的从一种乡村事物走向今天的社会,但它是如此的紧密相连. |
| 327 | So the historical development is a social development at the same time. | 因此历史发展是同时期的社会发展. |
| 328 | The imagery has a clearly relationship. | 图像有明显的关系。 |
| 329 | And to see the first time or to understand and learn the first time that here the mountains are large and the human being is small, | 第一次或第一次了解 第一次知道这里的山很大 人很小 |
| 330 | it's a huge step. | 这是一个巨大的步骤。 |
| 331 | It's a totally different perception of the world than we had. | 和我们的世界完全不同 |
| 332 | In the beginning it was that Maria was big and there was no nature. | 一开始是玛利亚很大,没有大自然 |
| 333 | Until we discovered the nature, it was in the 15th, 16th century after. | 直到我们发现大自然,它是在15,16世纪之后. |
| 334 | So we have a totally different... | 所以我们有一个完全不同的... |
| 335 | So from this point of view, I'm still like, oh, I have to understand. | 因此,从这个角度看,我还是一样, 哦,我必须理解。 |
| 336 | Oh, OK, this is a different culture. | 哦,好吧,这是一个不同的文化。 |
| 337 | That's why I like to come to China. | 所以我才喜欢来中国 |
| 338 | It's a little bit like why I really like to go to the U.S. so often. | 这有点像为什么我真的喜欢去 美国这么多。 |
| 339 | Because even from Europe, we seem to be close, but we are not close. | 因为即使从欧洲来说,我们似乎很接近,但我们并不接近。 |
| 340 | The rituals in the U.S. are totally different. | 美国的仪式完全不同. |
| 341 | We talk differently. | 我们说话不同 |
| 342 | Germany is rude in some kinds of ways. | 德国在某些方面粗鲁. |
| 343 | America is always, oh, thanks a lot. | 美国总是,哦,非常感谢。 |
| 344 | It's so nice. | 妙绝. |
| 345 | Oh, wow. | 哦,哇呜。 |
| 346 | Or like in L.A. | 或如洛杉矶. |
| 347 | And then it's even, it's marvelous. | 然后是平衡的,这是惊人的。 |
| 348 | It's wonderful. | 这是美妙的。 |
| 349 | Even getting lunch takes you 15 minutes because you have to talk. | 连吃午饭都得15分钟 因为你得谈谈 |
| 350 | In Berlin, it's, oh, I just want to have this roll. | 在柏林,我只是想有这卷。 |
| 351 | No, really? | 是吗? |
| 352 | Get it. | 来 |
| 353 | And so that's what I like. | 这就是我喜欢的。 |
| 354 | It's these kind of daily things in relation to understand. | 这是这种日常的事情 联系理解。 |
| 355 | The other thing, to the emerging young scene, for me, often, you know, | 另一件事,到新兴的年轻场景, 对我来说,经常,你知道, |
| 356 | I think art relates a lot to your age, to your understanding, how you grow. | 我认为艺术与你的年龄,你的理解,你如何成长有关 |
| 357 | You can look at it professionally, like when you're working, or you can live with it. | 你可以从专业角度来看待它,比如在工作的时候,或者可以忍受它. |
| 358 | Living is really an age thing. | 生活的确是一个年龄问题。 |
| 359 | Of course, I can also have some paintings. | 当然,我也可以有一些画。 |
| 360 | But I have to get up in the morning and look at the piece, | 但我得早上起来看片子 |
| 361 | and it has to tell me everything, something new. | 它必须告诉我一切, 新的东西。 |
| 362 | And if I'm looking now at the younger artists, it's a different discussion. | 如果我现在看年轻艺术家, 讨论会不同。 |
| 363 | And I think they are done also for their peers, | 我认为他们也是为了同龄人 |
| 364 | because that's why they're attractive. | 因为这就是为什么它们有吸引力。 |
| 365 | Because if you're 30, you have different problems than me. | 因为如果你是30, 你有不同的问题 比我。 |
| 366 | Well, like, no problem, but other questions. | 嗯,喜欢,没有问题,但其他的问题。 |
| 367 | And so when I'm walking around, there are outstanding figures, | 所以当我走来走去, 有一些杰出的数字, |
| 368 | like everywhere in the world, because they have already the language. | 像世界上所有的地方, 因为他们已经有了语言。 |
| 369 | They are having their program. | 他们有他们的节目。 |
| 370 | You see with font work, sometimes with font work, you don't know where it's going. | 与字体工作相见,有时与字体工作相见,不知去向. |
| 371 | Often when I'm going to the studio, I sometimes have the feeling, | 经常当我去工作室的时候 我有时有种感觉 |
| 372 | oh, they're doing so different things. | 哦,他们在做这样不同的事情。 |
| 373 | Why they are doing so different things? | 他们为什么做这样不同的事情? |
| 374 | What's really the case? | 这到底是怎么回事? |
| 375 | They are interesting, because from my knowledge and also from my thing, | 他们很有趣,因为据我所知,还有我的事 |
| 376 | I'm doing now books for 30, 40 years, and I'm still super interested to do this. | 我现在要写三四十年的书了, 我仍然对这样做感兴趣。 |
| 377 | And it's a long journey to do this. | 且道此经远行. |
| 378 | And it's like David Hockney is now 86, 87, and he's getting up every morning, | 就像大卫・霍克尼现在是86,87岁 他每天早上起床, |
| 379 | and you sit beside him, and if he's drawing a kind of a green, | 你坐在他旁边 如果他画的是绿色的 |
| 380 | he sits there for two hours and he's fascinated. | 他坐在那里两个小时 他迷上。 |
| 381 | And then I see a blue background, and it's just a thing. | 然后我看到一个蓝色的背景, 它只是一件事。 |
| 382 | And that's the question, what do you ask this painting? | 这就是问题所在,你问这幅画是什么? |
| 383 | And that's my fascination. | 这就是我的爱好。 |
| 384 | And the other is the industry part. | 另一个是工业 |
| 385 | The industry part is maybe more radical in China, | 这个行业在中国可能比较激进 |
| 386 | because you feel much more of a financial pressure or whatever. | 因为你更觉得 财政压力什么的。 |
| 387 | Financially, it's also not easy to make your living in New York, | 从经济上来说,在纽约谋生也不容易 |
| 388 | but it's like shareholding. | 但它就像股权。 |
| 389 | You have the art market, you have the art. | 你有艺术市场,你有艺术。 |
| 390 | This I cannot really judge here. | 我无法真正判断 |
| 391 | I feel definitely there is another financial pressure, | 我觉得肯定还有另一个财政压力, |
| 392 | another idea of economy, which I might also have to do, | 另一个经济的想法,我可能也必须这样做, |
| 393 | but I might, with the different understanding of art, | 但我可能,以不同的艺术理解, |
| 394 | not all this cultural background, because we are overloaded with our history, I think. | 并不是所有的文化背景, 因为我们 已经超载 我们的历史,我认为。 |
| 395 | And without our history, a lot of things you cannot understand. | 没有我们的历史, 很多你无法理解的事情。 |
| 396 | You see the silkscreen painting in Andy Ball, you see the next step from there, | 看到安迪·鲍尔的丝幕画 看到下一步 |
| 397 | you see in the little things, the little mirror plates of Jeff Koons, | 你可以看到小东西, Jeff Koons的小镜子板, |
| 398 | you see the plates of Karl Andre, you see in the baskets, | 你看到卡尔·安德尔的车牌, 你看见篮子里, |
| 399 | you see Kiki Smith's father, this big metal sculpture. | 你看见琪琪·史密斯的父亲了 这个巨大的金属雕塑 |
| 400 | So there's always a kind of a questioning. | 故总有问者. |
| 401 | You see Dali in the way of Albert is working, | 你看到达利在阿尔伯特的工作方式, |
| 402 | or in Dali you see how he was working relating to reality with the atomic bomb, | 在达利,你可以看到他是如何工作 与现实与原子弹, |
| 403 | this question about the bombing and the kind of atomic idea, | 关于爆炸和原子思想的问题, |
| 404 | so we've got this explosion painting, it's about looking. | 所以我们有这幅爆炸画, 是关于寻找。 |
| 405 | But the thing is always, that's what interests me, | 但事情总是, 这就是我感兴趣的, |
| 406 | and that's also I learned again from David Hockney, | 我也从大卫·霍克尼那里学到了 |
| 407 | look closer and you understand something. | 仔细看,你明白什么。 |
| 408 | And it's really like seeing the different greens of the spring, | 它真的像 看到不同的绿色的春天, |
| 409 | it's interesting, it's really good. | 这很有趣,真的很棒 |
| 410 | And you learn from Van Gogh how a sunset should be, | 你从梵高那里学到了日落的滋味 |
| 411 | and it was the sunset of 1930 or 1920, | 那是1930年或1920年的日落 |
| 412 | and now you look at the sunset of David Hockney and it's the sunset from today. | 现在你看着大卫·霍克尼的日落 从今天开始,这是日落 |
| 413 | And I think that's what art can give us, to see, to look, | 我想这就是艺术可以给我们,看,看, |
| 414 | and get ways of making our own interpretation of things, | 并找到方法,让我们自己 解释事物, |
| 415 | or the new attempt to see. | 或者新的尝试。 |
| 416 | You don't have to suddenly see the green arts. | 不用忽然见绿术. |
| 417 | Oh wow, Sophie. | 苏菲 |
| 418 | No, I think you're exactly right, | 不,我认为你是对的, |
| 419 | because I think obviously in China art has been around for dynasties, dynasties, | 因为我认为中国的艺术很显然 在王朝,王朝, |
| 420 | but Chinese contemporary art has only existed for not that many decades ago, | 但中国当代艺术 仅仅存在了几十年 |
| 421 | and that's what I think drives our industry, | 我想这就是我们行业的动力 |
| 422 | that's what drives us to wake up in the morning and kind of see that, | 这就是我们早上醒来的原因 并看到, |
| 423 | the artists that we work with, | 我们合作的艺术家们, |
| 424 | and the art publishers that we work with, | 和我们合作的艺术出版社, |
| 425 | that drives, motivates us to do what we are doing in the industry now. | 驱动力 激励我们做我们现在在工业中做的事 |
| 426 | And I think if you guys have anything to comment, | 我想如果你们有什么意见 |
| 427 | I think we're going to wrap up for the discussion from our panelists, | 我想我们要结束我们的小组成员的讨论 |
| 428 | and we're going to open the floor up to questions. | 然后我们开始讨论问题 |
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