改革的形成：1970-92年的中国建筑与经济自由化

发布于 2022-01-14 · 时长 1:10:03

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:04	Hello, everybody.	哈罗,大家好。
0:05	I think we're going to get started here.	我想我们要在这里开始了
0:07	Thank you for taking the time to come.	谢谢你抽空过来
0:13	Before we get started I will ask that if people are willing to turn on their cameras that's always nice for us to be able to see who's here and I know that for at least for those of us not in China we've all been kind of stuck at home for a while so it's	在我们开始之前,我会问,如果人们愿意打开他们的摄像头这对我们看谁在这里总是很好我知道,至少对于我们中不在中国的人来说, 我们一直被困在家里一阵子,所以它总是好的
0:27	to see some people.	来看看一些人。
0:29	I know that in China people at least can have a little more freedom but so if everybody is willing and able to turn on the camera that's always great.	我知道在中国,人们至少可以有一点更多的自由,但是如果每个人都愿意并且能够打开总是很棒的摄像机的话.
0:39	My name is Devin Lau I'm the assistant director for Yale Center Beijing.	我叫刘德文我是耶鲁中心北京的助理主任
0:44	A little background about the center established in 2014 it feels only university wide center that features a lot of different departments and professors from throughout the university.	有关2014年成立的中心的一个小背景,感觉只有大学宽度中心具有来自整个大学的许多不同系和教授的特点.
0:58	And we'd like to highlight all that's going on not just at Yale, but around the world, and to bring together thought leaders from around the world to discuss the interesting research and pressing issues.	我们想强调一下不仅在耶鲁,而且在世界各地所发生的一切,并召集来自世界各地的思想领袖,共同讨论有趣的研究和紧迫问题。
1:08	And so we've collaborated with Yale University Press to highlight some of the newest books coming out of Yale's press, which this, I guess, is the official kickoff of that series.	因此,我们与耶鲁大学出版社合作, 重点介绍了耶鲁出版社出版的一些最新书籍。我想,这是该系列的正式启动。

展开字幕全文（431 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Hello, everybody.	哈罗,大家好。
2	I think we're going to get started here.	我想我们要在这里开始了
3	Thank you for taking the time to come.	谢谢你抽空过来
4	Before we get started I will ask that if people are willing to turn on their cameras that's always nice for us to be able to see who's here and I know that for at least for those of us not in China we've all been kind of stuck at home for a while so it's	在我们开始之前,我会问,如果人们愿意打开他们的摄像头这对我们看谁在这里总是很好我知道,至少对于我们中不在中国的人来说, 我们一直被困在家里一阵子,所以它总是好的
5	to see some people.	来看看一些人。
6	I know that in China people at least can have a little more freedom but so if everybody is willing and able to turn on the camera that's always great.	我知道在中国,人们至少可以有一点更多的自由,但是如果每个人都愿意并且能够打开总是很棒的摄像机的话.
7	My name is Devin Lau I'm the assistant director for Yale Center Beijing.	我叫刘德文我是耶鲁中心北京的助理主任
8	A little background about the center established in 2014 it feels only university wide center that features a lot of different departments and professors from throughout the university.	有关2014年成立的中心的一个小背景,感觉只有大学宽度中心具有来自整个大学的许多不同系和教授的特点.
9	And we'd like to highlight all that's going on not just at Yale, but around the world, and to bring together thought leaders from around the world to discuss the interesting research and pressing issues.	我们想强调一下不仅在耶鲁,而且在世界各地所发生的一切,并召集来自世界各地的思想领袖,共同讨论有趣的研究和紧迫问题。
10	And so we've collaborated with Yale University Press to highlight some of the newest books coming out of Yale's press, which this, I guess, is the official kickoff of that series.	因此,我们与耶鲁大学出版社合作, 重点介绍了耶鲁出版社出版的一些最新书籍。我想,这是该系列的正式启动。
11	And so you should look forward to many more talks highlighting some of the newest books coming out of the press, and it'll be an extension of their work as well as our host of many different talks that we've been hosting ever since the pandemic began onli	因此,你应该期待更多的会谈突出一些最新的书籍出自媒体, 这将是他们的作品的延伸以及我们的主持人许多不同的会谈我们一直主办自从这个流行病开始在线,
12	And I will also note that it is a little unfortunate that we're doing this talk online instead of in person because part of today's talk will feature a little bit about Jianguo Hotel which is actually directly across the street from the center and if we w	我还会指出,我们在网上而不是当面进行这次谈话是有点不幸的, 因为今天的部分谈话会略微提到江口酒店, 它实际上直接在街对面的中央, 如果我们现在在中央,
13	we would be on the 36th floor of the building looking down into the courtyard of the Jianguo Hotel so that would have been quite fun but for those of you that are in Beijing or the next time you're in Beijing please feel free to take a look outside when y	我们将会在36楼的楼下望向江口饭店的庭院里那样会很有趣的但是对于你们中在北京的人或者下次你们在北京的人来说请在你们可以时随意去外面看看也许我们可以记住我们今天听到的一些观点
14	We are very lucky to have a fascinating talk today on the making of reform architecture and economic liberalization in the People's Republic of China.	我们今天非常幸运地就中华人民共和国改革结构和经济自由化的形成问题进行了令人着迷的讨论。
15	We will first hear from Professor Kohl Raskim, who is, I'll give the introduction, the full introduction in a bit, and then we'll also hear from Yishun Liu of Tsinghua, and they will be able to interact a little bit and follow up within their own discussi	我们首先听取科赫尔·拉斯基姆教授的发言,他就是,我先介绍一下,一会儿做完整的介绍,然后我们再听取清华的刘义顺的话,他们就可以在他们自己讨论他们所讲的话时,进行一点互动,并进行后续,然后我们还有时间和观众们一起"QQA"来结束这个小时.
16	And so as we're in the middle of the discussion, please feel free to use the chat function on the bottom of your Zoom screen and to leave any questions or comments and I will do my best to get to as many of them as possible at the end of our time together	既然我们正处在讨论的中间, 请随意使用您的缩放屏幕底部的聊天功能, 并留下任何问题或评论, 我会尽力在时间结束时尽可能多地联系他们。
17	And then let me introduce our speaker and our respondent today.	然后让我介绍今天的发言者和答复者。
18	Kohl Raskim is Associate Professor of Architectural History at the University of Hong Kong.	高尔拉斯基姆是香港大学建筑史副教授.
19	He is a graduate of Connecticut College just up the street from Yale, as well as Harvard University.	他是康涅狄格学院的毕业生刚从耶鲁大学毕业,还有哈佛大学
20	His research explores architecture's role in mediating moments of transnational interaction and exchange between China and other parts of the world.	他的研究探索了建筑在调解中国与世界其他地区跨国交往和交流的时刻的作用.
21	His articles and essays have appeared in Architectural History as well as the Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians, among others, and he's also, his first book was on architecture and governance in Shanghai called Improvised City, and today	他的文章和散文都曾出现于"建筑史"以及"建筑史学会学报"等刊物中,他也是,他的第一本著作是关于上海的建筑与治理,名为"即兴都市",今天我们将讨论他的最新著作"设计改革","中华人民共和国的建筑".
22	After his talk,	他说话后
23	Professor Yixuan Liu will respond.	刘学良教授会回应的
24	He is Associate Professor in the School of Architecture at Tsinghua University.	现任清华大学建筑学院副教授.
25	He received his doctorate from UC Berkeley and returned to Tsinghua and has been there ever since.	他从UC伯克利获得博士学位,回到清华,此后一直在那里.
26	He specializes in the history of modern Chinese architecture and urbanism, and his research includes the 10 monumental projects in Beijing in 1959, which he will also discuss further today.	他专门研究中国现代建筑史和都市主义,他的研究包括1959年在北京的十大伟业项目,他今天也将进一步讨论.
27	So without further ado, I will turn things over to Professor Cole Roskam, and again, if people are willing and able to turn on your webcams, that's always great, and we'll take a group picture at the end as Chinese custom for group events.	因此,不做进一步的事,我就把事情交给科尔·罗斯卡姆教授,再说一遍,如果人们愿意并且能够打开你的网络摄像头,那总是很棒的,我们最后会把一个团体照片作为中国的习惯,用于团体活动.
28	All right, here we go.	好了,开始了。
29	Great.	不错
30	Thank you, Devin and Joyce and everyone else in the Yale Center Beijing.	谢谢,德文和乔伊丝还有耶鲁中心北京的其他人
31	I'm really excited and grateful for this opportunity to talk a bit about my work.	我非常兴奋和感激有这个机会来谈谈我的工作.
32	I should also acknowledge the Yale University Press, I want to thank them for all the hard work on the book.	我还要感谢耶鲁大学出版社,我要感谢他们为这本书所做的所有辛勤工作。
33	It was a fantastic experience.	这是一次奇妙的经历。
34	And I'm very grateful for them as well.	我也非常感激他们
35	And then I also want to acknowledge Yixuan Liu for his willingness to respond to my work.	之后我还要感谢刘义诚愿意回应我的工作.
36	Let me share my screen.	让我分享我的屏幕。
37	I've been asked to talk for about 15 minutes on a specific aspect of the book and it was suggested that I talk about that Jianguo Fan Dian, given its proximity to the Yale Center Beijing.	有人要求我讲15分钟左右的书的一个具体方面,有人建议我讲一下江古范甸,因为它靠近耶鲁中心北京.
38	And I will do that but before doing so I wanted just to say a few introductory words, a few general words about the book itself.	我将这样做,但在这样做之前,我只想说几句话,一些关于这本书本身的一般性的话。
39	In particular, it's, it's maybe unusual periodization, and also the central argument of the book which concerns the significance of architecture, as it relates to the opening and reform era.	特别是,这或许是不寻常的时期化,同时也是书中关注建筑意义的核心论点,因为它涉及到开放和改革时代.
40	I started research on this project in my, my last year of graduate school so over over 10 years ago.	我在研究生院的最后一年开始研究这个项目超过10年前
41	And questions that have pretty consistently been raised in relation to the project since I started it relate to the timeframe, and also to the subject matter.	而自从我开始这个项目以来, 一直不断提出的问题, 涉及的时间框架, 也涉及主题。
42	So I wanted to talk about them briefly.	所以我想简单谈谈他们。
43	The first, of course, this issue of the timeframe, and my intent to extend the history of reform back prior to the official advent of reform in 1978.	当然,这是第一个时限问题,我打算在1978年改革正式开始之前将改革的历史延续回来。
44	The book begins in 1970, just after the peak of the Cultural Revolution, it extends through the events of June 4 of 1989, and then concludes with Deng's efforts to restart economic reforms through the southern tour in 1992.	该书开始于1970年,恰好文化大革命高峰之后,一直延续到1989年6月4日的事件,最后邓努力通过1992年南方巡演重启经济改革.
45	And in extending my study, I guess earlier perhaps than most existing and standard histories of opening and reform.	在扩展我的研究时,我想也许比大多数现有和标准的开放和改革历史要早。
46	What I really wanted to do is test out this hypothesis that the first diplomatic gestures commercial agreements and intra party debates that	我真正想做的是测试这个假设,即第一个外交姿态是商业协议和党内辩论,
47	that emerged in the immediate wake of the Cultural Revolution, eventually form the basis the ideological, the logistical the conceptual basis for reform, after 1978.	文化大革命刚刚开始,最终成为1978年后改革的思想基础、后勤基础。
48	This argument is not mine alone.	这一论点不只我一个人。
49	I have to acknowledge the work of figures like Song Kuo, Guangding Kuei, Charlie Xue, who I believe is an audience.	我必须承认宋国,广定国,薛查理等人物的作品,我相信他们是观众.
50	They've also begun to push the boundaries of reform as it relates to architecture.	他们也开始推动改革的界限,因为它与建筑有关.
51	But it's also heartening to see recent publications such as this just published catalog of the SIG collection and plus also identified by 1970 as this important turning point in relation to socialist Chinese cultural production.	但也令人振奋的是,最近出版的刊物,如刚刚出版的SIG文集目录,再加上1970年以前也确认为社会主义中国文化生产的重要转折点.
52	The other key question that often comes up or has come up in relationship to the project is architecture itself.	与项目经常出现或已经出现的另一个关键问题是建筑本身.
53	Late Mao and early reform era architecture is generally not been well documented or received within the realm of architectural historical scholarship.	毛泽东晚期和改革时代早期的建筑一般在建筑史奖学金范围内没有很好的记载或接受.
54	The era is often depicted as kind of a transitional, awkward, almost embarrassing moment characterized primarily by uncertainty and a certain misinterpretation of foreign architectural ideas as they were imported and then circulated throughout China.	这个时代经常被描绘成一种过渡,尴尬,几乎尴尬的时刻,其特征主要是不确定和对外国建筑思想的某种误解,这些思想是进口的,然后在中国各地流传.
55	But the key argument that I make in the book as it relates to architecture is for the era's importance, its significance as a very exciting, valid and important moment in China's recent architectural development.	但是,我在书中所提出的与建筑有关的关键论点,是对于时代的重要性,对于中国近代建筑发展来说是一个非常激动人心,有效和重要的时刻的意义.
56	It was consequential to the country's pivot toward capitalism insofar as buildings such as the East Edition to the Beijing Hotel, which I just showed in the previous slide.	它导致了国家向资本主义的转折,比如我刚刚在上一张幻灯片中展示的北京饭店的东版建筑。
57	As well as this interior dining room, but also projects like the United States Liaison Office.	以及这个内部餐厅, 但也进行像美国联络处之类的项目。
58	These were buildings that were essential in accommodating the arrival of foreign leaders and diplomats, business people and tourists and all of the new international contacts and capital that they brought with them into China, as well as the new technolog	这些建筑对于外国领导人和外交官、商人和游客的到来,以及他们带入中国的所有新的国际接触和资本,以及这种建筑所促成和需要的新技术至关重要。
59	Buildings are only one component of the project and the book as it relates both to pre 1978 and post 1978 development.	建筑物只是项目和书籍的一个部分,因为它既涉及1978年以前的发展,也涉及1978年后的发展。
60	Numerous circulations of people and ideas and practices were also very active	大量人员、思想和做法的传播也很活跃。
61	within China at this period of time, making it an incredibly lively and dynamic moment, not only in Chinese architectural	这段时期的中国国内,使它成为一个令人难以置信的充满活力和活力的时刻,不仅在中国建筑界
62	development and production, but also discourse, what people were talking about when they talked about architecture.	发展与生产,但也有讨论,人们在谈论建筑时谈论的是什么。
63	And that those kinds of conversations and engagements also contributed to the intensified reshaping of China's economy, its politics, cultural production and society at large.	这些对话与接触也促进了中国经济、政治、文化生产和整个社会的重新塑造。
64	Now, for all of the, the emphasis I've just placed on pre 1978 design, of course, these influences and all these ideas were even more visible and active when we talk about post 1978 work, particularly a number of early joint venture design and constructio	现在,对于所有,我刚刚强调1978年以前的设计, 当然,这些影响和所有这些想法,在我们谈论1978年后的工作时,甚至更加明显和活跃, 特别是一些早期的合资企业设计和建筑项目,例如Django酒店,我现在将集中关注。
65	Here in the Django and as I argue in my book, we find an architecture designed to accommodate the various spaces, behaviors and procedures of international finance and foreign tourism, while obscuring any ideological acquiescence that such accommodation m	正如我在书中所说的那样,我们找到了一个建筑,旨在适应国际金融和外国旅游业的各种空间、行为和程序,同时掩盖这种便利可能包含的任何意识形态默许。
66	There existed significant factionalism within the party at this time over the nature, the method, the speed of reform, though as a developmental model reform very much remain grounded in a singular architectural modernist vision that was	目前党内存在关于改革的性质,方法,速度的重大派别主义,虽然作为一个发展模式改革,在很大程度上仍然以单一的建筑现代主义观点为基础.
67	focused on improving people's lives as quickly as possible without delegitimizing the party or or endangering its grip on power.	注重尽快改善人民生活,不使党合法化或危及党对权力的控制。
68	And so realizing this objective and achieving this balance required what we can understand as a sort of politics of visibility, capable of communicating both progress, but also control.	因此,实现这个目标,实现这个平衡,需要我们能够理解的是一种能见度的政治,能够传达两个进展,但也能够控制。
69	And this was a task to which architecture, but specifically the hotel as a particular building type was uniquely equipped hotels required relatively little investment, they carry the potential for quick, quick rewards and high profits.	这是一项建筑任务, 但具体地说,作为特定建筑类型的酒店设备独特的酒店需要的投资相对较少, 它们具有快速,快速的回报和高利润的潜力。
70	They became valuable conduits for foreign currency exchange at a time when China's limited financial resources made transnational monetary exchange difficult.	在中国有限的金融资源使得跨国货币兑换变得困难的时候,它们成为了外汇兑换的宝贵渠道.
71	Hotels also offered a means by which the international service sector, which was becoming an increasingly important component of the world's economy at the time, could be studied and assessed within China itself, particularly as the party	旅馆还提供了一种手段,使当时日益成为世界经济重要组成部分的国际服务部门能够在中国内部,特别是作为政党,进行研究和评估。
72	contemplated a shift away from commodity driven state directed economics into something more more market and service based.	设想从商品驱动的国家转向更基于市场和服务的经济。
73	In this respect hotels presented the Chinese government with a micro economic model of the mechanisms and also the practices increasingly at work across global capitalism and consequently international hotel design and development was one of the first ind	在这方面,旅馆为中国政府提供了各种机制的微观经济模式,同时也是全球资本主义日益流行的做法,因此,国际旅馆设计和开发是最早的工业模式之一。
74	sectors to be opened to foreign direct investment.	将开放给外国直接投资的部门。
75	It was one that seemed to operate both within, but also beyond the confines of governmental control in a way, and it helped to visualize a kind of new rehabilitated regime that was still in many ways beholden to the	它似乎是在政府控制范围以内运作,但也在某种程度上超出了政府控制范围,它有助于想象出一种在很多方面仍然依赖政府的新恢复政权。
76	technological legacy of Mao and the Mao era.	毛泽东时代的技术遗产.
77	And so we can see that intent and that purpose, literally inscribed in the China Daily headline that I show here that this idea of the Django Hotel is an embodiment, a physical embodiment of the open door policy itself.	我们可以看到这个意图和目的, 字面上刻在《中国日报》的头条里, 我在这里表明, 这个关于Django酒店的想法是一个化身, 即对开门政策本身的有形体现。
78	The Django Hotel was one of three joint venture agreements finalized by the Chinese government after 1978, so it was a very important but also a speculative project.	强哥酒店是1978年后中国政府敲定的三项合资协议之一,因此是一个非常重要但也是投机性的项目.
79	It was the first joint venture hotel to be completed in Beijing in April 1982.	它是1982年4月在北京建成的第一家合资酒店.
80	And it was so new in fact that there was an absence of any kind of governing agency capable of assessing the project's potential.	并且这是如此新的事实,没有能够评估项目潜力的管理机构。
81	And so it necessitated the approval of all 12 vice premiers and vice chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People's	因此,必须批准全国人大常委会所有12名副会长和副会长。
82	Congress.	国会.
83	So it was very much a groundbreaking endeavor in all meanings of the word.	所以,这在很大程度上是一个突破性的努力在这个词的所有意义。
84	The Django was designed by the Chinese American architect Clement Chen Jr. who's featured here in a very provocative image in the lobby of the Django.	强哥号是由美国华裔建筑师小克莱门特·陈设计,他在这里以非常挑衅的形象出现在强哥号的大厅.
85	The logistical support of the Beijing branch of the International Travel Service in China was also essential.	国际旅行社北京分社在中国的后勤支助也至关重要。
86	The hotel also had the financial backing of the Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank, which had just begun to explore tourist related infrastructural projects in China at the time.	该酒店还得到了香港和上海银行的财政支持,后者刚刚开始探索当时中国与旅游相关的基础设施项目.
87	Chen was born in Shanghai before migrating to the United States after World War II, or after his family migrated to the United States after World War II.	陈在二战后移居美国之前出生于上海,或者在二战后他的家人移居美国之后.
88	He studied architecture and engineering at RPI in New York State before working as an architect in the	他在纽约州RPI学习建筑和工程,后来担任建筑师
89	including the Palo Alto Holiday Inn, which was finished in 1973 in Palo Alto, an image of which is shown here.	包括Palo Alto假日客栈,该客栈于1973年在Palo Alto完工,其图像在此展示.
90	And that's an important prototype or precedent for the Django Hotel itself.	这也是Django酒店本身的重要原型或先例.
91	Over the course of the 1970s and as China was beginning to open up, the Palo Alto Hotel became a very popular destination for mainland Chinese delegations to the Bay Area, in part because Chen's wife served Chinese food at the hotel.	1970年代期间,随着中国开始对外开放,帕洛阿尔托酒店成为中国大陆代表团前往湾区的非常受欢迎的目的地,部分原因是陈妻在酒店为中国菜服务.
92	And it became the physical and also the operational prototype for the Django Hotel.	它成为了Django酒店的实物和运营原型.
93	So it was a familiar space for officials but also Chinese academics who are circulating through the Greater Bay Area.	也是中国学者在大湾地区流通的熟悉空间。
94	What also makes the relationship between the Bay Area and the Django Hotel notable is the involvement of Youngho Chang, who's one of the pioneering private architectural practices in China.	也使得湾区与强哥酒店的关系引人瞩目的是永浩昌的参与,永浩昌是中国最早的私人建筑实践之一.
95	He worked with Clement Chen on the Django Hotel.	他与克莱门特·陈在强哥酒店合作.
96	It was one of his first jobs, in fact, and he, in an interview I had with him, he remembered producing the detailed drawings for the Django Hotel's window fixtures.	事实上,这是他最初的工作之一他在我和他的一次访谈中他记得为Django酒店的窗户固定装置制作了详细的图纸
97	The Django Hotel ultimately was concluded and completed as a 480 room facility, costing $22.6 million that again eventually opened in April 1982, along Beijing's Django Menwai Dajie.	詹戈酒店最终竣工并竣工,成为480个房间设施,耗资2 260万美元,最终于1982年4月在北京的詹戈门韦大吉一带再次开业.
98	And it was completed by the Beijing number one construction company in accordance with what was then standard PRC construction and material practices.	而由北京第一建筑公司按照当时的中华人民共和国标准建筑和材料惯例完成.
99	Programmatically the Beijing project hewed very closely to its Palo Alto precedent, which we can see in these comparative images here.	从方案上讲,北京项目非常贴近其Palo Alto的先例,我们从这些比较图像中可以看到这一点。
100	Both buildings featured a central lobby that contained all of the main dining and recreational options.	两座大楼都有一个中央大厅,内有所有主要的餐饮和娱乐选择。
101	And then on either side of the lobby was featured two carefully landscaped courtyards with pools, largely shielded from public view and that's not insignificant.	之后在大厅的两侧均呈现出两座精心布景的庭院,配有游泳池,基本挡住公众视野,这并非微不足道.
102	Two blocks of guest rooms lay to the hotel's north and east distinctively arranged in a series of kind of fragmented disaggregated massing series.	两条街的客房铺设在酒店的北面和东面,以一系列零散的分门别类的弥撒系列为显著排列.
103	At least one Chinese critique favorably compared the hotel's elasticity and its lively composition to interior courtyards seen in traditional Chinese vernacular architecture.	至少一位中国人将酒店的弹性及其活泼的构成与中国传统方言建筑所见的室内庭院相提并论。
104	So there was also almost immediately after the project was built, there was this effort to kind of legitimize the project discursively within a broader historical Chinese architectural framework.	因此,在工程建成后,也几乎立即出现了这样的努力,在更广泛的中国历史建筑框架内,这种努力使工程疯狂地合法化。
105	Interestingly the project also featured this roundabout driveway.	有趣的是,该项目也以这一环形车道为特色。
106	We can see that also in the Palo Alto Hotel.	我们在帕洛阿尔托酒店也能看到这一点。
107	That of course was for automobiles despite the relative absence of cars on Beijing streets at this period of time.	当然,这是为了汽车,尽管当时北京街上相对没有汽车.
108	Now, in moving from the exterior quickly into the interior we can see really a kind of incredibly dynamic distinctive environment at play.	现在,在从外表迅速进入内地时,我们可以看到一种非常活跃的独特环境。
109	The inclusion of an indoor swimming pool, color television, touchstone telephones in each rooms.	每间室内均包括室内游泳池,彩色电视,触摸石电话.
110	All of these technologies were incredibly rare items in China at the time, but they were seen as necessary to ensuring the building status as China's first quote unquote international class hotel.	所有这些技术都是当时中国极为罕见的物品,但被认为是确保建筑地位的必要,是中国最早引用的未引用的国际级酒店.
111	The hotel's main purpose of course was to support both international tourists and also business people who are keen to establish new commercial ventures in the PRC.	该旅馆的主要目的当然是支持国际游客以及热衷于在中华人民共和国建立新的商业企业的商人。
112	The hotel's first floor in fact would become popularly known as Wall Street for the number of international baking representatives and agencies that would set up shop there.	事实上,该旅馆的一楼将因许多国际烘焙代表和机构将在那里设立商店而被俗称为华尔街。
113	So office space was incredibly limited in China at the time and hotels began to serve as kind of de facto professional spaces where business ventures could be set up before transitioning into other forms of architecture.	因此,当时中国的办公空间极其有限,旅馆开始成为一种事实上的专业空间,在过渡到其他形式的建筑之前,可以在此开办企业。
114	Visibility really was a crucial component of the hotel's mission.	可见度确实是酒店任务的重要组成部分.
115	Reformers within the party were adamant that average Chinese citizens see the building.	党内改革人士坚决认为,一般中国公民都能看到大楼.
116	But that in fact they only see the building, and there were certain risks attached to access into the hotel.	但事实上他们只看到大楼,进入酒店也有一定的风险.
117	The prospects of China's rapid uncontrolled integration within the global economy and the kind of jarring destabilizing nature of these new buildings, these new hotels, all posed potential political and social challenges.	中国迅速无节制地融入全球经济的前景以及这些新建筑、这些新旅馆的不稳定性质都构成了潜在的政治和社会挑战。
118	And so access to the hotel was in fact prohibited to average Chinese residents, with the exception of trusted cadres, guest acquaintances and hotel staff, all of whom were trained by the Hong Kong based Peninsula Hotel Management Group.	并且因此实际上禁止普通华人居民进入酒店,除了受信任的干部,客家熟人和酒店工作人员外,他们都是由香港的半岛酒店管理集团培训的.
119	Average Beijing citizens could not enter the building.	北京市民一般不能进入大楼.
120	And in fact the building's recessed entrance was designed in a way to ensure that no passersby would actually gain entry.	而事实上,该建筑的停机坪入口的设计是为了确保任何路人都不会真正进入.
121	Even as its glass facade projected tantalizing views of comfort and convenience and luxury inside.	即使它的玻璃外观预示着舒适、方便和奢侈的感觉
122	I found among numerous other anecdotes and quotes tied back to the Zhenguo Hotel this fantastic description by Orville Schell, who was then writing for the New York Times, the New Yorker.	我在无数其他的传闻和引文中发现了奥维尔·舍尔(Orville Schell)的这一奇特的描述,他当时为纽约时报"纽约客报"撰稿.
123	And he in 1983 he described the hypnotic effect of this new building on gathered crowds.	他在1983年描述了这座新建筑对聚集人群的催眠作用.
124	He described it as creating quote a silent phalanx of common people staring transfixed to the plate glass windows at the activity inside the brightly lit hotel lobby.	他形容它创造了一个沉默的phalanx 普通人盯着板玻璃窗对准活动亮亮的酒店大厅。
125	So that gives a sense of kind of the, again the jarring destabilizing nature, the newness of this project and the spaces that it that composed it.	因此,这再次让人感受到了破坏稳定的性质, 这个项目的新之处, 以及它构成它的空间。
126	Financially of course the Django was an immediate success, it remained 95% occupied more than a year after its opening its its net profit reached 1.5 million US dollars in its first year.	当然,在财政上,Django立即取得了成功,在第一年净利润达到150万美元之后,95%仍然占据了一年多。
127	It annually doubled its profit each year between 1982 and 1986 amid a, you know, exponential growth in China's international tourism, where it was also incredibly consequential was in connection to discourse and to how people were discussing	1982年到1986年,中国国际旅游的成倍增长, 也令人难以置信的后果,
128	and debating architecture.	和辩论结构。
129	Chinese architectural critic Wang Mingxian later identified the Django as both the first glass wall building in China and described it as quote an enclave of the capitalist outside world that nevertheless quote provoked much excitement and debate among Ch	中国建筑学评论家王明贤后来将大干戈分别认定为中国第一座玻璃墙建筑,并将其描述为引证了资本主义外部世界的一块飞地,尽管如此,引证还是引起了中国建筑师们的很多兴奋和争论.
130	There was an officially sponsored symposium that was organized by the architectural journal, the Jinju Shui Bao in Beijing, just two months after the Django hotels completion.	建筑学期刊"京珠水宝"在北京举办正式赞助的座谈会,恰好在詹戈酒店完工两个月后.
131	And in that, at that symposium a number of Chinese architectural academics, designers, critics, weighed the merits of the Django hotel as it compared to other Chinese built projects such as the Huadu hotel image of which I've showed here.	在这次座谈会上,一些中国建筑学者,设计师,批评家们,比起我在这里展示的华都酒店形象等其他中国建筑项目,对强哥酒店的优点进行了权衡.
132	And it's an interesting conversation that was published in Jinju Shui Bao in which the participants each weighed the merits of both buildings with advantages and disadvantages identified in both in both projects, but importantly, such debate helped to est	在锦州水宝发表过一段有趣的谈话, 参与者们在谈话中,
133	a set of discursive parameters with which China's architectural community could begin to critically assess such work while also positioning their own work in connection to reform and into what was happening economically.	中国建筑界可以着手批判性地评估这类工作,同时将自己的工作与改革和正在发生的经济情况联系起来。
134	Projects like the Django hotel became a kind of template around which domestic architectural production could begin to learn from and absorb foreign architectural activity as it was being imported into China over this period of time.	Django酒店等项目成为一种样板,在这段时间内,国内建筑生产开始向外国建筑活动学习并吸收外国建筑活动。
135	There were of course a number of other hotel projects that were proposed designed and constructed in China at the time.	当然,当时中国还提出过其他一些旅馆项目设计和建造.
136	I've privileged the Django for the reasons that I mentioned its proximity to the Yale Center Beijing, but also in part because it was so ideologically and also financially effective, particularly relative to other contemporary projects such as the fragran	我之所以向强哥致谢是因为我提到它离北京耶鲁中心很近部分原因是它思想上和经济上都很有效
137	Hills Hotel or the Great Wall Hotel.	希尔斯酒店或长城酒店.
138	These were projects that were built and were eventually considered successes.	这些项目已经建成,最终被视为成功。
139	But the, the logistics and the complexity of each projects were much more difficult than the Django hotel, which was a relatively simple straightforward project to implement the Django relatively simple design its modest budget and its rapid financial	但是,每个项目的后勤和复杂性都比Django旅馆困难得多,而Django旅馆是执行Django的比较简单的直截了当的项目,它设计得比较简单,预算有限,财政迅速。
140	success, all distinguished it from some of the other notable hotels that were realized at this period of time.	取得了成功,所有这些都与这段时期已经建成的其他一些著名酒店有所区别。
141	What also signifies I think the Django and the, and the hotel as a as an important building type to reform was also the extent to which these buildings operated as a kind of economic threshold, but also a political quarantine, a space with which	我认为强哥和酒店是改革的重要建筑类型也是这些建筑作为经济门槛运作的程度也是政治隔离的空间
142	modifications could be made visible and projected to the population without any visible signs of political duress.	可以使民众看到并预测这些改变,而没有任何明显的政治胁迫迹象。
143	And that made the typology incredibly and increasingly popular within Chinese architectural production and discourse over the course of the	这使得这个类型在中国建筑制作和演讲中令人难以置信越来越受欢迎
144	Now today the legacy of these buildings, I think is often overlooked, though as I argue in my book, such architecture divert deserves a reassessment and offers a valuable concretization of the, the precarity of social economic socio economic	今天,这些建筑的遗产,我想常常被忽视,不过,正如我在书中所说的那样,这些建筑的转移值得重新评估,并提供了宝贵的具体内容,说明社会经济的先入为主。
145	reform, which as we all know Deng Xiaoping famously analogized as crossing the river by groping for stones right more to show toll.	改革,我们都知道,邓小平把改革作为跨越河道的类似物,用挖石头来更能显示损失。
146	Reconceptualize in these terms I think the international.	重新构思这些词语我认为国际。
147	That was just my, my, my alarm clock to finish so I'll conclude here with a few, a few thoughts but I think we conceptualize the International Hotel helps to lay bare to reveal the unresolved paradoxes that were embedded within reform.	这只是我的,我的,我的闹钟完成,所以我在这里结束以一些,一些想法, 但我认为我们的概念国际酒店帮助裸露揭示未解决的矛盾嵌入改革。
148	And within the architectural and the economic transformations that were required architectures contributions to China's modernization but also to new conceptions of Chinese modernity.	在建筑和经济变革中,建筑对中国现代化的贡献,以及对中国现代化的新概念的贡献。
149	Still remain I think under under theorized and under problematized and and so I hope my book might initiate further conversation and reassessment of of that period and of that debate.	我仍然认为,在理论之下和问题之下,我希望我的书能够对那个时期和辩论展开进一步的对话和重新评估。
150	The typology of the hotel may no longer hold a privileged claim over over how China defines its relationship to the world.	酒店的类型可能不再对中国如何界定其与世界的关系持有特权主张.
151	But I think that it was an essential instrument for international exchange as well as for commodity flow and became an important	但我认为,它是国际交流和商品流通的基本工具,并成为重要的工具。
152	and consequential spatial model for how China's leaders would begin to attempt to orchestrate.	以及中国领导人如何开始协调的空间模型。
153	Substant of substantial economic turbulence without seeding political control.	严重的经济动荡,没有政治控制。
154	So ultimately the architectural history of the opening in the reform era, as I, as I chronicle in my book and as we can continue to talk about.	最终是改革时代的开幕建筑史, 就像我,我书中记载的,以及我们可以继续谈论的。
155	I think ultimately reveals architecture to be a technology, and also a form of cultural production that was essential, both to defining and demarcating processes of economic and political change, even if architecture ultimately did not restrict the	我认为最终揭示建筑是一种技术,也是一种文化生产形式,对于界定和标定经济和政治变革进程至关重要,即使建筑最终不会限制经济、社会和政治变革。
156	imbalances and the impulses that that accompany those processes.	不平衡和伴随这些进程的冲动。
157	So with that I'll end and I appreciate your, your attention and your interest in the project and I look forward to hearing from, from issue.	因此,我最后会感谢你们,你们对这个项目的关注和兴趣,我期待着从这个问题上听到。
158	So,	这么说
159	So okay, thanks.	好吧,谢谢。
160	Thanks for, for including me in this, in this event.	谢谢你把我包括在这件事情中
161	Cole and I, we met many years ago.	科尔和我很多年前见过
162	That was in an exhibition, curated by Cole, that was, that was in the seven, eight, nine art zoom.	那是一个展览,由Cole主持, 也就是,在7,8,9艺术放大。
163	And that exhibition was about hotel, the research that Cole did at that time, of course he make updates to his research and make it a chapter in his new book.	那场展览是关于酒店的, 科尔当时所做的研究, 当然,他更新了他的研究, 并使之成为他的新书的一章。
164	But I'm surprised you did not talk much about the structure and other contents for your book and this book is a provides a very, provides a fuller picture of the Chinese architectural industry.	但我很惊讶你没有谈太多你书的结构和其他内容这本书是一个非常,更完整地描述中国建筑工业的提供.
165	Since 1970 to 1990 1992, which covers, not just design, but also education, technology, architectural technology, and many other things in this book so this very good.	从1970年到1990年,它不仅包括设计,而且还包括教育,技术,建筑技术,以及这本书中的许多其他东西,所以这个很好.
166	As he, as Cole calls this book, a documentation, it's very good documentation, and which of course a good contribution of English book for readers to know things, what happened in the 1970s, since 1970s onwards.	由于他,如科尔所称的这本书,是一种文献,它是一个非常好的文献,当然是英文书对读者了解事物的一个很好的贡献,1970年代发生的事情,从1970年代开始.
167	So, Cole and I, I think we followed with each other in the past few years of our research to have a better understanding of our, of, of the chain modern Chinese architecture and urbanism.	因此,科尔和我,我认为我们在过去几年的研究工作中, 互相跟踪, 来更好地了解我们,对链式中国现代建筑和都市主义的认识。
168	And this book, I found something interesting in this book.	这本书,我在这本书里发现了一些有趣的东西。
169	So I will say something about this book, because Cole did not expand on his book.	所以我要谈谈这本书,因为科尔没有扩展他的书。
170	So I'll tell you the structure of the book and things that interesting to me.	因此,我告诉你这本书的结构以及我感兴趣的事情。
171	And later that we can, we can engage others in discussion about what, what the research was the future trend of doing research on history of modern Chinese architecture and urbanism.	之后,我们可以让其他人参与讨论什么,什么研究是研究中国现代建筑和都市主义历史的未来趋势。
172	So this book, to Cole, like many other west based or Hong Kong based scholars.	因此,这本书,对科尔来说,就像许多其他以西或香港为基地的学者一样.
173	He consulted sources of many, many forms, architectural journal, and some other formal publications in the mainland.	他咨询了许多形式,建筑期刊的来源,以及大陆的一些其他正式出版物.
174	Of course, one of the major sources that Cole and others consult, consult.	当然,科尔等人咨询的主要资料来源之一,咨询.
175	But there are also other sources that scholars in the mainland normally do not pay much attention to, or because of language barriers and other restrictions, we do not find them easily.	但也有其它来源,大陆的学者通常不怎么注意,或者由于语言障碍和其他限制,我们不易发现.
176	So Cole mentioned about the pictures at the exhibitions in other foreign countries, like the Palm Beedle Center, he provides some good pictures about how the foreigners imagine, not imagine, how foreigners depicted the Chinese everyday life, or the Chines	于是科尔提到其他外国的展览的照片,如棕榈比德尔中心,他提供了一些关于外国人如何想象,而不是想象,外国人如何描绘中国的日常生活,或者中国的城市,城市景观的好图片.
177	So there are things, there are materials that	所以有东西,有材料
178	that we should pay attention to.	我们应该注意。
179	And there, the chapter, I think, for today's lecture, Cole just focuses on, they focused on the hotel as a building type.	在那,我想,关于今天的演讲, 科尔只是专注于, 他们把酒店作为建筑类型。
180	And of course, hotel, the chapter, I also noticed that the hotel chapter is the longest chapter in this book.	当然,酒店,章节,我也注意到酒店章节是这本书中最长的一章.
181	And, and we should, we should, we should note that, to use Cole's word, the hotel construction is the way used to define the relation of the PRC to the outside world.	而且,我们应该,我们应该,我们应该注意到,用科尔的话来说,旅馆建筑是用来定义中华人民共和国与外界关系的方法.
182	So that was Cole's words on the hotel building in the late 1970s to the early, early and mid 1980s.	这就是科尔在1970年代后期到1980年代早期,早期和中期在酒店大楼上说的话.
183	My own research on the hotel as a building type focuses on a couple of years before that, and that was the Peace Hotel and other hotels designed and constructed in the early 1950s.	我本人对酒店作为建筑类型的研究,集中在之前的几年,这就是1950年代初设计和建造的和平酒店和其他酒店.
184	So that was also a very crucial moment for the regime, for the state building, the socialist state building under under Maoism.	所以对于毛主义统治下的政权,国家大厦,社会主义国家大厦来说,这也是一个非常关键的时刻.
185	And as you know, in the reform areas, it kind of, it's kind of like another, under another political regime.	如你所知,在改革领域, 它有点像另一个, 在另一个政权之下。
186	So the state need to redefine its relation to the outside world and equipments, hotels, and the modern facilities and equipments in the hotels and the guests supposed to stay in the hotel, they're an emblem for the state policies and diplomatic attitude t	因此,国家需要重新定义它与外界以及设备,酒店的关系,以及酒店中的现代设施和设备以及本应留在酒店的客人,它们是国家政策和对外外交态度的标志.
187	So this is interesting.	所以这很有趣。
188	So we, with the parallels we made here are interesting, inspiring, and this is what I say we followed with each other's work to have a better understanding of the Chinese architectural history, modern Chinese architectural history and, and urbanism.	因此,与我们在这里所做的平行,是有趣,鼓舞人心的,这就是我所说的我们彼此的工作,以便更好地了解中国建筑史,中国现代建筑史和都市主义.
189	But there are some things, some other things I want to also put, put here.	但是,有些东西,有些其他的东西,我也想放在这里。
190	Oh, I think change is the, the key word, of course, new book.	哦,我认为改变是关键词, 当然,新书。
191	He, he find the change of why the design concept the design philosophy change to the modernist styles and modernist matters and technologies applied and used in the 1970s onwards are quite dramatically different from the previous era.	他,他发现设计哲学为何改变设计概念,改用现代主义风格和在1970年代以后应用和使用的现代主义问题和技术,与前一个时代大不相同.
192	But also, I want to notice that the continuity and the technological accumulation can also be the source for this change.	但是,我还想指出,连续性和技术积累也可以是这一变化的来源。
193	That's not just the result of the diplomatic and political change outside, but also be as a result of the, the past technological	这不仅仅是外在的外交和政治变革的结果也是过去科技的结果
194	accumulation for cold talk about the concrete, the technology architectural technology of concrete panels and hollowed Greeks, and they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're had been experimentations on this things in the early, since early 1950	积累用于冷谈混凝土,混凝土板的技术建筑技术以及空心的希腊人,他们,他们,他们,他们,他们,他们,他们,他们,他们,从1950年代早期开始,就一直在这些东西上进行实验.
195	There are factories in Beijing, mute, doing the prefabricated things that that's the lessons, the Chinese experts.	北京也有工厂,哑巴,做那些就是教训的预制物,中国专家.
196	Even officials, they were sent to the Eastern bloc countries.	即使是官员,他们也被送到了东方集团国家.
197	So they learned about what the Dresden, Germany would what people did there, and they brought this experience back to China and that's like early 1950s.	因此,他们了解到德累斯顿人,德国人会在那里做什么, 他们把这种经验带回中国,就像1950年代初。
198	And I also mentioned to you, Professor Shahang, he was doing, he's doing a research on the shell, the brick shell.	我也提到你,沙汉教授他正在做,他正在做一个研究外壳,砖壳。
199	So you know we will also use concrete shell but he's doing research on brick shell.	所以你知道我们也会使用混凝土壳但他正在研究砖壳
200	This is like a substitute technologies, and that was very popular in	这就像一个替代技术, 并且非常流行在
201	China, in the Great Bay Area in the 1960s, 1970s at this moment.	中国,1960年代,1970年代此时的大湾区.
202	So there are other things that we can brought to the scene to, to write into your research.	因此,还有其它的东西我们可以带到现场, 写在你的研究。
203	And I also like to, because you did not mention about the real westing is one of the, one of the most interesting points interesting stories in in your, your book about the zombie and the tons on.	我也喜欢,因为你没有提到真正的西行就是你的书里最有趣的故事之一, 是关于僵尸和吨位的。
204	What is that Tazara, Tazara, Tazara, Tanzania, Tanzania, Zambia, railway station, the railway and the railway stations with the aid from the PRC.	塔扎拉、塔扎拉、塔扎拉、坦桑尼亚、坦桑尼亚、赞比亚、火车站、铁路和火车站,
205	There's a technological transfer from China in the 1950s that accumulated, starting from 1950s, and then it was brought to other countries, so that's to Africa.	20世纪50年代中国的技术转让积累起来,从50年代开始,后来被带往其他国家,也就是非洲.
206	So we can see the double covered, covered shell, the concrete double covered shell in the Beijing station	我们可以看到北京站的双层覆盖物双层覆盖物
207	And this was, and this technology became mature and mature in the 1960s and then was brought outside, not just in Chinese cities but to African cities.	这个技术在20世纪60年代变得成熟和成熟然后被带到外面去, 不仅在中国城市,而且在非洲城市。
208	So there is a longer, there's a longer thread to understand the, the topic.	所以还有更长的线程来理解这个话题。
209	And what I also want to say, so this also reminds us that people in the mainland, people in mainland China, that we should pay more attention to people outside China that for people doing the Chinese, China related research outside China.	我也想说,所以这也提醒我们,大陆的人,中国大陆的人,我们应该更多地注意中国以外的人,对于做中国人,中国与中国以外的人有关的研究.
210	And for coal, for scholars like coal, so I suggest you guys pay more attention to what the recent progresses for the mainland Chinese scholars, what they did in, in, in China.	对于煤炭,对于像煤炭这样的学者,我建议你们更多地注意中国大陆学者最近的进展, 他们在中国,中国的作为。
211	Okay, so that Professor Shahen, that's one of the example that I want to remind.	好吧,沙亨教授,这是我想提醒的一个例子。
212	So, so basically this is very interesting book, as I said, that's a good contribution to the literature, the existing literature to better understand, to ramify our understandings of Chinese cities and Chinese modern and contemporary architecture since 19	因此,基本上,这本书非常有趣,正如我所说的,这是对文学,现有文献的有益贡献,以更好地理解,粉碎我们对中国城市和中国现代建筑自1970年代以来的理解.
213	I'm not real, I'm not a really an expert of architectural history of that period, that's more concerns, that concerns more about geographical research and contemporary stuff, I'm more, I'm a, I'm a more traditional historian so I focus on the pre 1970 his	我不是真的,我不是一个真正的建筑史专家, 这更值得关注, 更关心地理研究和当代的东西, 我是一个,我是一个更传统的历史学家, 所以我专注于1970年以前的历史。
214	But I saw the professor should fully and other, other colleagues in the audience so maybe we can engage them in a discussion as well.	但我认为教授应该充分和观众中的其他同事这样我们也许也可以让他们参与讨论
215	So let's let's my comment.	因此,让我们来谈谈我的评论。
216	Thank you.	谢谢
217	So, cool.	所以,酷毙了。
218	I mean you can go ahead and kick off with any additional comments that you have with what you should brought up and then if people have comments or questions please feel free to start either leaving them in the chat box, or even raise your hand on the as	我的意思是,你可以开始任何附加评论,你有你应该提出, 然后如果人们有评论或问题请随意开始要么把它们留在聊天框中, 或甚至举起你的手作为放大功能之一
219	is raising your hand and I'll be happy to unmute people so that you can jump into the conversation.	举起手来我很乐意去抚摸别人这样你就可以跳进对话了
220	Yeah, because, well may add that because there's a there's a chapter on the Shenzhen and the Great Bay Area in coast new book.	是的,因为,因为有一章关于深圳和大湾区在海岸新书。
221	So, cold would you please expand a little bit more on that so we can maybe we can invite Professor Charlie share for for comments	所以,寒冷,请您再进一步扩展一下,这样我们也许可以邀请查理教授分享一些评论
222	and, and have some interesting.	和,并有一些有趣的。
223	What what he had to say.	他该说什么?
224	Yeah, thank thanks you sure for your comments I appreciate them and I particularly that your point about the fact that although we don't work necessarily on the same time periods we're both studying how change and moments of transition materialize	非常感谢你的评论我很感激你的意见特别是你的观点虽然我们不一定在同一时间段工作
225	into architecture, and the extent to which architecture is actually contributing and participating within those moments of change, I think there's a tendency to look at architectural history and understand architectural history and connection to themes li	以及建筑在这些变化的瞬间实际贡献和参与的程度我认为有一种趋势是审视建筑史了解建筑史以及与连续性等主题的联系
226	constancy right, you use the word tradition.	对,你用传统这个词
227	But a closer look at these buildings and the activities taken in them, the processes that they, they may have catalyzed all speaks to kind of a very different narrative that relates to experimentation uncertainty.	但是,仔细看看这些建筑和它们中的活动, 它们可能催化的过程, 可以说是一个非常不同的叙述, 涉及到实验的不确定性。
228	Change to quote you quoting me so I think it's great to hear you kind of tie those threads and extend them back even earlier to the immediate post 49 period.	换句话说,你引用我的话, 所以我觉得很高兴听到你把线条绑起来, 并且更早地将线条延伸至49后期。
229	What I was trying to do in the book, and in all of its, all of its nine chapters is as you, as you also point out to look at a different way that architecture was was participating in reform.	我在书中试图做的, 以及全部的, 它的九章都是像你一样的, 正如你还指出的,看看建筑正在参与改革的另一种方式。
230	So, the hotels, constitute one chapter in that history but there were fascinating exciting changes taking place in connection to how architects were working within China.	旅馆是历史上的一章但中国建筑师的工作方式发生了令人兴奋的变化
231	The, the role of the, the hollow brick and wall technology as you as you pointed out the kind of reintroduction of that technology.	正如你指出的空心砖和墙壁技术的作用那种技术的重新引入
232	After the Cultural Revolution, and it's, it's gradual deployment over the course of the early to mid 1970s.	文化大革命后,是,在1970年代初至中期逐步部署.
233	Of course the diplomacy of architecture as it relates not just to what was being imported into China but what China was exporting.	当然,建筑外交不仅涉及进口到中国的东西,而且涉及中国出口的东西。
234	And the fact that it was very, very much a kind of circulatory system, not, not a unidirectional system but definitely	而事实上,它是一个非常,非常一种循环系统,不是,不是一个单向系统,但肯定
235	something that was bi directional and very fluid at the same time.	东西是双方向和非常流畅同时。
236	There's another chapter in the book that that looks specifically at, at discourse that the writing about architecture the terminology the vocabulary, the various isms modernism postmodernism and how these ideas were were transforming architectural	书中还有一章专门论述有关建筑学的论述词汇的术语各种异质的现代主义后现代主义以及这些思想是如何改变建筑的
237	media in China.	中国媒体.
238	There is a chapter on, as you say Shenzhen in the special economic zones.	正如你说的,经济特区的深圳有一章。
239	And in that chapter I tried to look specifically at architecture within the special economic zone, rather than to kind of rely only on that macroscopic view of the, of the zone itself I	在该章中,我试图具体地审视经济特区内的建筑,而不是仅仅依赖该特区本身的宏观观点。
240	really, I really tried to zoom into something at the scale of a building.	真的,我真的试图放大某样东西在建筑的规模。
241	And the other chapters all the final chapter in the book looks more particularly at Africa, and China's exportation in Africa so yeah each each chapter offers a different slice of, of, of architectures legacy as it as it relates to reform.	而其他章节书中所有的最后一章都更关注非洲, 中国在非洲的出口, 所以每个章节都有不同的部分, 建筑遗产,因为它涉及到改革。
242	And Charlie of course is someone else who's looked at a number of those slices and sections through his own research.	查理当然是另一个通过自己的研究来观察这些片段的人。
243	So I don't Charlie you must have questions and comments.	所以我不是查理你必须有问题和评论。
244	It's nice to see you.	欢喜踊跃.
245	Thanks for being here.	谢谢你能来
246	Thank you so much, Chair, and thank you so much, Professor Roscombe and Professor Liu.	非常感谢你,主席,非常感谢你,罗斯康贝教授和刘教授。
247	And I first I would like to congratulate Cole and first for your new book.	我首先要祝贺柯尔首先要祝贺你的新书
248	I remember this is your GRF project and after so many years accumulation and finally you have a book published by Yale University Press.	我记得这是你的GRF项目经过这么多年的积累你终于有一本由耶鲁大学出版社出版的书
249	So I would like to congratulate and first, I already asked our library to order your place and your new book, and I hope to read it soon.	因此,我要祝贺大家,首先,我已经要求我们的图书馆订下你们的位置和新书,我希望很快读出来。
250	And I think you put that you position yourself in the hotel, especially in Django Hotel, I think that's a, that is a very clever point, and you please emphasize on Django Hotel, and it's American type hotel, or although I'm paid design frequent	我认为你将自己安置在酒店里, 特别是在Django酒店, 我认为这是一个, 这是一个非常聪明的点, 请强调Django酒店, 这是美国型的酒店,
251	But that is a very location, very topography oriented design and piece design, but Django Hotel is American form, American commercial form, imported to China, imported China, we remember that in the 1950s,	但那是非常位置,非常面向地形的设计和片面设计, 但Django酒店是美国形式, 美国商业形式, 进口到中国, 进口中国, 我们记得在1950年代,
252	Hilton Hotel, Hilton Hotel and imported to the Middle East, and that together with the American exportation of exportation of American architecture and bring the westernization and modernization to the Middle East.	希尔顿酒店(Hilton Hotel),希尔顿酒店(Hilton Hotel)并进口到中东,再加上美国出口美国建筑,将西方化和现代化带入中东.
253	So I think Django Hotel has symbolic meaning for the Chinese modernization in the 1980s.	所以我认为强哥酒店对1980年代的中国现代化具有象征意义.
254	So you grasp on that so I think that is a very clever point.	所以,你明白这一点所以我认为这是一个非常聪明的点。
255	And also for Clemence himself, he designed Holiday Inn in California, and also then came to Beijing.	也为克莱门斯本人设计了加州假日客栈,后来也来到北京.
256	I have not read your book and in the, when I write my book, I write a Chinese book in 2006, I also write, I also write Django Hotel, but I could not find many materials, Clemence Chen.	我还没读过你的书,在写我的书的时候,我于2006年写了一本中国书,我还写了一本Django旅馆,但是我找不到很多材料,Clemence Chen。
257	I know he is based in California and also Hong Kong, perhaps, and today I'm from your lecture, I know he's from Shanghai first.	我知道他总部在加利福尼亚,还有香港,也许,今天我来自你的讲座,我知道他先来自上海.
258	Okay, so that is the material of the architect, he is a developer, and he also, I know he also owns part of the Django Hotel, right, but he passed away very early, very early.	好吧,这是建筑师的材料, 他是一个开发商, 而且,我知道他也拥有Django酒店的一部分,没错, 但他很早就去世了。
259	That's right.	没错
260	Yes, so that is about the hotel.	是的,所以这是关于酒店。
261	I also see your, I also see the cover image is the Shanghai Center designed by John Portman.	我也看到你,我还看到封面图像是约翰·波特曼设计的上海中心.
262	Yeah, and that, yes, John Portman, that is, I think I am from Shanghai and that is a very impressive work in the 1980s, in the 1980s, and when those hotels, Django Hotel, as you said, Chinese people were not allowed to enter these hotels, we feel very sca	是的,是的,约翰・波特曼, 也就是说,我认为我来自上海, 这是一部非常令人印象深刻的作品在1980年代, 在1980年代, 当那些酒店, 强哥酒店,正如你所说, 中国人不被允许进入这些酒店时, 我们感到非常害怕在1980年代进入这些大楼。
263	So you started Django Hotel and also Shanghai Center, one in Beijing, one in Shanghai, I think they are, they all, Portman is a commercial architect, Portman may not collect any AIA gold medal or any other academic award, but he is so influential in the A	于是你创办了强哥酒店,还有上海中心,一个在北京,一个在上海,我想他们,他们都是,波特曼是一个商业建筑师,波特曼可能不会收集任何AIA金牌或任何其他学术奖项,但他在美国的商业设计上很有影响力,
264	and his works imported to China, to Shanghai, I think, I think his success, his success is immense, and the influence is immense for the Chinese architectural design and building practice development.	以及他的作品进口到中国,到上海, 我认为,他的成功, 他的成功是巨大的, 对中国建筑设计和建筑实践发展的影响是巨大的。
265	Those practices are so huge, so huge, so I think you can grasp these points and these cases, those are very good points for your book, for your book, and so I first talked these two points, I stop here, later I can come back to the discussion.	这些做法如此之大,如此之大,所以我认为你能够理解这些要点,这些案例,对于你的书,你的书来说都是非常好的要点,所以我首先谈了这两个要点,我到此为止,然后我可以回到讨论中来。
266	Okay, thank you very much.	好吧,非常感谢。
267	Thank you, Charlie for your comments and yeah, just to add on to what you said and also what you sure mentioned in relationship to research materials, and what scholars are increasingly looking at in relationship to architectural history.	谢谢你,查理,你的评论和是的, 只是为了补充你说的话, 以及你肯定在研究材料的关系中提到的内容, 以及学者们在研究建筑史时越来越关注的内容。
268	I conducted a number of interviews over 20, 25, 30 interviews with figures who worked in the Portman offices, as well as with Clement Chen's son, so as you pointed out, Chen himself passed away years ago, but his son was wonderful, amazing interviewee.	我对在波特曼办事处工作的人物,以及克莱门特·陈的儿子进行了20,25,30多次采访,所以如你所指出,陈本人多年前就去世了,但他的儿子是出色,惊人的采访对象.
269	I actually spoke with him two separate occasions and learned a lot about the history of the hotel, the history of his father, his early professional career.	实际上,我和他进行了两次不同的交谈,并了解了很多旅馆的历史,他父亲的历史,他早期的职业生涯.
270	I also spoke with, with young Ho Chang, Zhang Yonghe, who was incredibly helpful in connecting some dots for me about how Chen and his, his work related to what was happening within China at the time and some of some of those, those connections that were	我也和年轻的何昌,张永河谈过了,他们给我提供了非常大帮助,把陈和他的工作与当时中国国内发生的事情联系起来,还有一部分,这些联系是编造的。
271	So interviewing was an essential part of the research for me to learn more about what was happening in the design process.	因此,面试是研究的一个重要部分, 以便我更多地了解设计过程中发生的事情。
272	So that gives you a very solid foundation for writing.	因此,这给你写作的坚实基础。
273	We should learn from that.	我们应该从中吸取教训。
274	Okay.	摆
275	Well, well oral history is now becomes more and more popular in mainland China in recent years.	口述历史近年来在中国大陆日益流行.
276	And I also consider interviews and oral history interviews, interviewing with people who participated in that event in the, in the construction design process.	我也考虑采访和口头历史访谈, 采访那些在建筑设计过程中参与这一活动的人。
277	So which means they're now in their 80s or 90s years, so this, this very old people, but they can recollect very clearly what happened at the time.	这意味着他们现在已经80或90岁了, 所以这个,这个非常老的人,但他们可以非常清楚地回忆当时发生的事情。
278	Of course, it's one form of core materials as I call them one form of core materials but the credential of this of oral history is comparatively	当然,它是核心材料的一种形式,因为我称之为核心材料的一种形式,但这种口述历史的证明是相对的.
279	lower than other forms of materials like official archives and, and other, other sorts of forms.	低于官方档案等其他形式材料。
280	So, for my research, for my, this is my, it's very personal to my for my research, I consider the blueprints.	所以,对于我的研究,对于我来说,这是我的, 对于我的研究来说,这是非常私人的,我考虑的是蓝图。
281	That's the one of the most important thing so without blueprints.	这是最重要的事情之一所以没有蓝图。
282	This something we can sort of, you know, convincing power to to to to convey to the to the readers.	这个东西我们可以,你知道, 说服力来传达给读者。
283	And I also consider the research on process.	我也考虑对过程的研究。
284	So, there, there is a long process to design to first initiate design a building until it was finally built up.	因此,在那里,有一个很长的设计过程,首先开始设计一座建筑,直到最终建成.
285	So there is many change alternations and the different parties that their own concerns and the profits and interest to be brought in.	因此,有许多变化的交替和不同的当事人,他们自己的关切以及带来的利润和利益.
286	So this process the research on the process or process processes.	所以这个过程是研究过程或过程的过程.
287	That was one of to me that's one of the most intriguing point of my own research projects.	对我来说,那是我自己研究项目中最有趣的一点之一。
288	So, so that's for me so but we mostly concerns about materials from archives different archives.	所以,这对我来说是如此, 但我们主要关心从不同的档案档案的材料。
289	Okay, there's departmental archives or municipal archives that are even construction archives, which is not oftentimes open to the public.	好吧,有一些部门档案或市档案甚至建筑档案, 这不经常向公众开放。
290	But as I said, as I mentioned just now for Western West Bay scholars, they had the broader vision of different sorts of different sorts of evidences and the materials that we can consult, including other materials and evidences in other languages.	但是,正如我所说的,正如我刚才提到的西湾学者,他们对于不同种类的证据和我们可以参考的材料,包括其他语言的其他材料和证据,有更广泛的视野.
291	So this is something that we, I think, people in the mainland in China inside China should should learn from our, our colleagues, such as such a school.	因此,我认为,中国大陆的中国人应该从我们,我们的同事那里学到一些东西,比如这样的学校.
292	So, great.	所以,伟大的。
293	Oh, please have another question here from somebody in the audience.	哦,请在这里有另一个问题从观众。
294	Perfect.	不错
295	Hi, cool.	嗨,凉爽。
296	Congratulations for publishing your new book, I don't know if you still remember me we met in Sydney in a conference before, and I've been reading a lot of your works, and I wonder if you, if your book here covered any new practices or practice forms.	恭喜你出版新书,我不知道你是否还记得我在悉尼开会时见过我, 我读了很多你的作品, 我想知道你,你的书是否包括任何新的实践或练习形式。
297	During this period because my research is focused is on the architectural practice.	在此期间,因为我的研究重点是建筑实践.
298	And I'm also curious about how you hold on, like, participated in this general hotel project, what's his position and if he is	我也好奇你是如何坚持的比如,参与这个普通酒店项目他的位置是什么如果他是
299	helping Chen as his assistant with with American firm, or he is just from Chinese government, send him as some kind of assistant position, because in Franklin, Franklin's Hill Hotel.	帮助陈作为他的助手与美国公司, 或者他只是来自中国政府,
300	There is also Chinese architects wanting see who is also, he's doing a kind of learning apprenticeship in aiming pace office.	还有中国建筑师想知道他是谁, 他正在做一种学习学徒瞄准速度办公室。
301	At that time he participates in the hotel project.	当时他参与了酒店项目.
302	So, I wonder if you're watching has a similar relationship here.	所以,我想知道你是否在看有类似的关系在这里。
303	And also, I have another question is about.	还有,我还有一个问题
304	I read before one in one of your journal paper.	我在你日记的一篇论文前读过
305	You mentioned several different practices, private firms, they appeared in 1980s and have you get into deeper or further writing about them in this book.	你提到过一些不同的做法,私人公司, 它们在1980年代出现, 让你在这本书中更深入或进一步地写作。
306	Yeah, thank you.	谢谢
307	Great.	不错
308	Yes, thanks I do.	是的,谢谢。
309	I do remember you and I appreciate the question.	我还记得你,我很感激这个问题。
310	Thanks for tuning in.	谢谢你的调音
311	Yes, I do have a chapter that's focused on on architectural practice and the changes that were taking place within the framework of the state run design institutes.	是的,我有一个章节, 专注于建筑实践和正在国家运行设计机构框架内进行的变革。
312	And the establishment of these experimental offices for design by figures like one TNC actually that that research was initially published as, as a, as an article that it sounds like you found, which is great.	这些实验办公室的建立由一个像跨国公司这样的人物设计事实上,这个研究最初被发表作为,作为一个,它听起来像你找到的文章, 这是伟大的。
313	And I revised, I've revised that article and added some additional information and expanded some of the, some of the case studies and included it in the book.	我修改了,我修改了这篇文章, 并增加了一些补充信息, 并扩展了一些,一些案例研究, 并将其列入书中。
314	So there is a chapter that is looking at how different ways of working different organizational structures in relationship to the architectural practice we're beginning to be introduced in part through joint ventures like the jungle hotel or the or fragra	所以有一章是研究不同的组织结构如何与建筑实践相适应通过丛林酒店或香山等合资企业引入不同的组织结构
315	People like, like young ho or want to and she were really essential conduits and kind of moderating mediating agents in this process they they were young ambitious and well connected young designers who became important.	比如,像年轻人或她想, 在这个过程中,他们是真正的重要管道和调解代理他们年轻有野心,而且关系密切的年轻设计师他们变得重要。
316	representatives in these in these collaborations, and they the information and the knowledge that they cleaned through people like Clement Chen and I am pay.	这些合作中的代表, 以及他们通过Clement Chen和我这样的人来清除的信息和知识。
317	With was then kind of in instrumentalized and applied to their own, you know experimental architectural practices.	与后来的某种工具化并应用到自己的, 你知道实验性的建筑实践。
318	So, yes, all of that, all of that was happening at the time.	所以,是的,所有这一切, 所有这一切发生在当时。
319	When I talked to young ho, he was a bit vague about how he had come to work for Clement Chen.	我和小浩说话时,他对于他是如何来为克莱门陈工作的有些模糊.
320	It may have been under some kind of official pretense given that his father was of course, you know, incredibly prominent architect within the within the Beijing Institute of architectural design.	他父亲当然是北京建筑设计学院内非常杰出的建筑师他的建筑设计师
321	But he was at Berkeley, he was at Berkeley at the time he was also he was practicing he was he was training and studying as a young architectural student at the time and so he wanted to learn from Clement Chen and as he told it, he was a, you know, an app	但他在伯克利,他当时也在伯克利,他也在练习他当时作为年轻建筑师的训练与学习,所以他想向克莱门特·陈学习,正如他所说,他是一个,你知道的,是当时他做过相当平庸的设计工作的学徒.
322	As I mentioned in my talk he, he remembered very fondly doing some of the detailed drawings the detail work for some of the windows of the of the Jinguo Hotel.	正如我在演讲中所提到的,他记得,他非常亲切地为静国酒店的一些窗户做了一些详细的画作。
323	So, but he remembered the relationship and the project very fondly and spoke, you know, very kind of nostalgically about it as being a really important project for his, for his development as an architect.	所以,但他记得这个关系和项目非常感人,你知道的,非常怀旧地说, 对于他来说是一个非常重要的项目, 对于他作为一个建筑师的发展来说。
324	Thank you very much.	谢谢
325	All right.	好吧,我们走。
326	Does anybody else have any questions I know we also have some quite a few practitioners in the audience as well so that might be another interesting angle if anybody wants to ask me more questions.	还有其他人有任何问题吗? 我知道,我们也有一些练习者在观众中,如果有人想问我更多的问题,那可能是另一个有趣的角度。
327	Yes, there we go.	是的,我们走了。
328	Okay, as Kate.	好吧,作为凯特。
329	Hi.	顿
330	I'm case on.	我办到了
331	Yeah, I really admire.	是啊,我真的很钦佩。
332	Yeah.	对
333	Yeah, I think it's a very great event and I say, Professor Kurt Rostkeman, Professor, Professor, and all the all of you are very important scholars in this part of the architecture history is in this area.	是的,我认为这是一个非常伟大的事件, 我说,库尔特·罗斯克曼教授, 教授,教授,你们都是建筑史这个部分非常重要的学者。
334	Yes, and I also did some research on the architecture history of this, of this period, and my PhD research is focused on the Chinese architectural history in the 1970s.	是的,我也做了一些关于这个时期的建筑史的研究, 我的博士研究集中在1970年代的中国建筑史上。
335	And now, I applied for the NSFC research grant.	现在,我申请了NSFC研究补助金。
336	And the new topic is about the architecture history from 1970s to 1980s.	而新的话题则是1970年代至1980年代的建筑史.
337	So I began to consider this, there's a two period that is divided by the year 1978.	于是我开始考虑这个问题,有一个两个时期是1978年除以的.
338	The two separated the period as the as one.	两人将这一时期分离为一体.
339	Yeah, because I think, because if you only consider from the political aspect is separated, but if we look at the architecture itself, especially if we focus on the knowledge of architecture, we can see the continuity.	是的,因为我认为,如果你只考虑政治方面是分开的, 但是如果我们看建筑本身, 特别是如果我们专注于建筑的知识, 我们可以看到连续性。
340	And so I focused on the actually the modernism, because I think the modernism in this is this two decades from 1970s to 1980s is actually a high tide of the in the Chinese architectural history.	所以我把注意力集中在了实际的现代主义上, 因为我认为现代主义是20世纪70年代到80年代的, 实际上是中国建筑史上的高潮。
341	Yeah, so that is my observation and I'm not sure.	是的,所以这是我的观察,我不确定。
342	And actually I would like to hear your ideas.	实际上我想听听你的想法
343	And another, another consideration is about 1980s, because I read I read a book written by Ezra Vogel.	另一个考虑是1980年代, 因为我读了一本由Ezra Vogel写的书。
344	And he, yeah, he studied the Chinese, Chinese political reform.	而他,是的,他研究了中国,中国的政治改革.
345	And I think that's very inspiring, because he thinks the 1980s is not just a very simple, straightforward process of reform, but he revealed a lot of ups and downs and a lot of hesitation.	我认为这非常鼓舞人心,因为他认为20世纪80年代不仅仅是一个非常简单,直截了当的改革过程,而是他揭示了许多起伏和许多犹豫.
346	And like, yeah, so it's a very complicated process.	所以这是一个非常复杂的过程。
347	So I think so I think you have very interesting idea to, to study the relation between architecture and political reform.	所以我想,我认为你有一个非常有趣的想法, 研究建筑和政治改革之间的关系。
348	And so I'm wondering how architecture history can reveal the complexity of political history.	所以我想知道建筑史如何揭示政治历史的复杂性.
349	So that's, yeah, so that's my questions.	所以,是的,所以这是我的问题。
350	Yeah, thank you.	谢谢
351	Great question.	问得好
352	And so you're included in that list of prominent scholars who are looking at this moment, you need to include yourself.	因此,你被列入了眼下的著名学者名单, 你需要包括你自己。
353	Charlie and myself.	查理和我个人。
354	Your work is fantastic and I cited your dissertation in my own book.	你的作品很棒我在自己的书里引用了你的论文
355	So I very much look forward to seeing how your, how your own research progresses and develops.	所以,我非常期待看到你,你自己的研究是如何进展和发展的。
356	But this, this question you raise I think is essential this idea of what architecture can contribute to our knowledge of, of political change.	但是,你提出的这个问题我认为,对于什么架构可以帮助我们了解政治变革,这个想法是至关重要的。
357	And that, that was very much at the core of what I what I was trying to study.	而那正是我所研究的东西的核心。
358	And I found that architecture aligns and and can be harnessed to a certain extent in relationship to a political campaign or to an ideological shift that there are certain ways that architecture can symbolize a broader political message.	我发现,建筑与政治运动或意识形态的转变相关联,并在一定程度上可以加以利用,这种转变有某些方式可以象征更广泛的政治信息。
359	But architecture can also architecture is at the end of the day an object, right and it can be disobedient in its objectness.	但是,建筑也可以建筑在一天的结尾是一个对象,正确的,并且可以在它的客体上不服从.
360	And sometimes buildings can project and convey meanings that weren't necessarily intended	有时建筑可以投射和表达不一定是有意的
361	by the political forces behind it and by the political forces behind it and by the political forces behind it and by the political forces behind it and by the political forces behind it and by the political forces behind it and by the political forces beh	由背后各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治力量,各政治团体,各政治团体,各政治团体,各政治团体,各政治团体,各政治团体,各政治团体,各政治团体,各政治团体,各机关,各政治团体,各政治团体,各政治团体,各政
362	So that, that tension is of great interest to me, the extent to which architecture monumentalizes certain political ideas but also the way that architecture at times can subvert those same political ideas, often, often based, you know on on relatively fic	因此,这种紧张关系对我非常感兴趣, 建筑在多大程度上将某些政治思想发扬光大, 以及建筑有时会颠覆这些同样的政治思想的方式, 通常,你知道,基于相对脆弱的意识形态
363	shifts that might be taking place.	可能正在发生的转变。
364	And this, this was very much something that I, I tried to engage with in the introduction of my book and then in the, in the really all of its nine chapters was looking at different, different friction points and different coincidences between what was ha	这个,我,我尝试了介绍我的书,然后,在九章里, 我们看到了不同的,不同的摩擦点, 以及不同的巧合, 在中国政治中发生的事情, 然后是建筑等效物,反之亦然。
365	So, everything from materials to scale to site to the the designers behind the projects, all of those elements I think can be spun and framed as having political significance.	因此,从材料到规模到现场到设计者所有这一切,我认为都可以被推敲出来并被描绘成具有政治意义。
366	But by the same token, they can also be used to challenge in some ways and to contradict the particular political messaging of a moment.	但同样,它们也可以用来以某种方式挑战,与某一时刻的特定政治信息相矛盾。
367	Yes.	对
368	Yeah, but as to the 1980s.	是的,但关于1980年代。
369	So, most specifically, how, how to interpret the architectural history of 1980s to to represent the complexity of the political history.	所以,最具体地说,如何,如何诠释1980年代的建筑史来代表政治史的复杂性.
370	Yeah.	对
371	So, for example, how to subdivide the, the course of the, yes, this kind of political reform.	因此,比如说,如何细分这种政治改革的路线,是的,
372	Yeah, my, as a scholar I guess I'm less interested in that kind of strict rigid periodization that I think often emerges in in some Chinese architectural scholarship, where there's this, there's this desire to kind of to break time up into these specific	是啊,作为学者,我想我对那种严格僵化的拓扑不太感兴趣, 我认为这种拓扑往往出现在一些中国建筑学的奖学金中, 在那里,有一种愿望就是把时间分解到这些特定的时期。
373	I was, I was interested in kind of as you as you yourself pointed out, looking for the kind of continuities that might transcend or spill over from one period into another such as 1978.	我对你们自己指出的一样感兴趣, 寻找一种可能跨越或者从一个时期蔓延到另一个时期,如1978年的连续性。
374	And what's interesting for me about architecture is that our architecture takes a long time to build architecture is also lasts for a long time.	关于建筑,我感兴趣的是, 我们的建筑需要很长的时间来建造建筑, 也是长久的。
375	Right.	对
376	So this element of time and duration is that that is at the core of, of, of architecture's political significance.	因此,时间和时间的这一要素是,这是建筑政治意义的核心。
377	And the extent to which it may project a certain message or the extent to which it subverts a certain message so in the book I looked at a project like the fragrant Hills Hotel, which, when it was initially proposed by pay and was discussed among party le	以及它可能传达某种信息的程度或它颠覆某种信息的程度在书中我看着一个像香山酒店的项目, 当它最初通过工资提出,并在党领袖之间讨论
378	and also academics at Chihuahua University, there was a lot of excitement about the project, but also some anxiety about, for example, its site right why pay didn't want to build within Beijing why he wanted to build outside the city, why he didn't want t	以及奇瓦瓦大学的学者们对这个计划非常兴奋但同时也有些焦虑比如说,它的校址正确
379	high rise, why he wanted to build something that was more sensitive and attuned to China's architectural traditions.	高升,他为什么想要建造一些更敏感,更符合中国建筑传统的东西.
380	And so over time a project that would seem to kind of embody the promise and the excitement of reform came to reveal some of the contradictions and	随着时间的推移,一个似乎体现了改革的希望和刺激的项目揭示了一些矛盾和矛盾
381	the challenges of reform pay insisted on a certain kind of material quality to the to the project that often didn't align with the, you know, the economic conditions outside Beijing and the, and the labor that was used to build a hotel, so that that	改革工资的挑战坚持某种物质质量对于项目, 往往不符合,你知道, 北京以外的经济条件和劳动力建造酒店,
382	and all of these kind of snowballed and manifested into the, in the, in the building itself, which was opened in 1983 and then quickly fell into some decline and became in quite immediate need of repair, in part because the party was neglecting it.	和所有这些类型的雪球并表现在, 在,在,在建筑本身, 1983年开业, 然后迅速跌到一些下降并变得相当迫切需要修理, 部分原因是因为党忽视它。
383	And it did not necessarily	也不一定是这样
384	did not necessarily	并不一定
385	deliver all of the promises that the party had party leaders had hoped it might.	实现党内领导人希望它能够实现的所有承诺。
386	So that that's one example of a building that I did I discuss in the book but there are others that either align with the with with political messaging at a certain point and then	所以这是我在书中讨论过的那栋建筑的一个例子但也有一些其他建筑在某个时候符合政治信息
387	diverge from that from that political messaging, one to two to three years later, in part because reform was such a was such a challenging and divisive process.	在一至二至三年之后,与这种政治信息不同,部分原因是改革如此具有挑战性和分裂性。
388	Yeah, thank you.	谢谢
389	I'm really looking forward to the book.	我真的很期待这本书。
390	I have ordered one.	我订了一个
391	Okay.	摆
392	Thank you.	谢谢
393	All right.	好吧,我们走。
394	Do we call do you have time for one more question.	我们打电话给你有没有时间再问一个问题?
395	Sure, of course.	当然可以
396	Yeah.	对
397	Yeah, so we'll make this the last question and then we can wrap up.	是啊,所以我们会做最后一个问题然后我们可以结束。
398	Thank you very much for our lecture, and you have mentioned the hotel has changed the financial of Shanghai.	非常感谢我们的演讲,你提到了酒店改变了上海的财政.
399	And if we want to know about it but know about it, which I expect we can talk	如果我们想知道但知道它, 我想我们可以谈谈
400	And how we know the financial architecture of Shanghai to know about the hotel's influences.	如何了解上海的金融结构了解酒店的影响
401	The, just to make sure I understand the question you're asking about the Portman, the Shanghai Center and it's it's effects on financialization in Shanghai.	为了了解你对波特曼公司上海中心的问题以及它对上海金融化的影响
402	Yeah, that that project is is, I think, particularly significant not just for Shanghai but for China and Charlie has written about the project as well but in the book I talk about its scale, and as being incredibly significant and the expense of the proje	是的,我认为,这个项目不仅对上海,而且对中国和查理来说都特别重要, 但我在书中谈到它的规模, 并说它非常重要, 以及它的费用
403	is being significant because there was no other project that it costs that much in Shanghai at the time, but one quick one quick example of how how the hotel, or how that's how that complex	因为当时上海没有其它项目花费那么多钱但有一个简单的例子说明酒店是如何发展起来的
404	impacted or shaped financialization in Shanghai was that over the course of negotiations between Shanghai party leaders and and the Portman office, the, there was a question about the nature of the joint venture and what what elements of the hotel and the	影响上海金融化或形成金融化上海党政领导与波特曼办事处在谈判过程中
405	would benefit the party and what what what component of the Shanghai Center would benefit Portman.	上海中心什么组成部分能给波特曼带来好处
406	And there are one of the notable features of that of that of that hotel is that there are a series of short term rental condominiums that were designed in the in the Shanghai Center specifically for business people who would be based in Shanghai for relat	而该酒店的显著特征之一是,在上海中心有一系列短期租借公寓,专门为将设在上海的商人设计,租期较短.
407	like eight months to a year to maybe two years would be based there by their by their companies.	比如8个月至1年,也许2年由他们的公司在那里办公。
408	The party didn't understand or members of the party didn't necessarily appreciate the how lucrative short term rental business rental was.	该党不理解,或者党员未必明白短期租借企业租金多有利可图.
409	And so the idea that these condominiums could be rented out at a premium for very short intense periods of time like six months	因此,这个想法是,这些公寓可以以高价租出去在非常短的紧张时期像六个月
410	or a year or two years was not not something that the that again the party appreciated and so Portman eagerly maintained management control over those condominiums and benefited quite quickly economically and incredibly lucratively at the at the party's e	或一年或两年不是什么党再次欣赏, 因此波特曼热心保持管理控制这些公寓并且很快经济和令人难以置信的利润
411	simply simply because it was an economic model and a spatial model that didn't exist in China at the time.	仅仅是因为它是当时中国不存在的经济模型和空间模型.
412	And so once it was realized and once the economic you know benefits of a of a model like that were apparent	因此,一旦它实现, 一旦经济,你知道一个模型的好处这样的明显
413	officials quickly adjusted and revised their their their models but that that that was one example that I uncovered in my research.	官员们迅速调整和修改了他们的模式,但这是我在研究中发现的一个实例。
414	Thank you so much.	非常感谢
415	Thank you, Cole and new issue for joining us.	谢谢你,科尔和新一期的加入
416	And also for all the unofficial participants who contributed wonderfully to the discussion.	也对所有为讨论作出出色贡献的非官方与会者。
417	Fascinating discussion and a lot more we can discuss, which is why it's a great opportunity to say the last word which is, please go out and get Cole's book from Yale University Press.	令人着迷的讨论和我们可以讨论的更多, 这就是为什么这是一个很好的机会说最后一个词,就是,请出去从耶鲁大学出版社得到科尔的书。
418	It really is a fascinating and quite thorough documentation of many of the wonderful things that he's been studying so thank you all for joining us as per tradition at Yale Center Beijing zoom events we asked that people will turn on their cameras so that	这确实是一个令人着迷和非常透彻的文献记录他一直在研究许多美妙的东西所以感谢大家按照传统加入我们在耶鲁中心北京放大活动
419	which is a very common Chinese activity that we do.	这是一种非常常见的中国活动,我们这样做。
420	So, if you're willing to and you're able to please turn on your cameras.	所以,如果你愿意你可以打开你的摄像机。
421	Look at that camera, and my team will be taking photos for us.	看看那台摄像机我的团队会给我们拍照
422	All right.	好吧,我们走。
423	And as we're doing that I will unmute everybody, and you can all feel free to thank our discussions, yourselves.	而当我们这样做的时候,我会解除每个人的责备, 你们可以自由地感谢我们的讨论,你们自己。
424	Thank you call and thank you.	谢谢你打电话给我,谢谢
425	Thank you for your time, really wonderful talk.	谢谢你抽空来说得真好
426	Congratulations.	祝贺你
427	Thank you.	谢谢
428	Thanks.	谢谢
429	Thanks everybody.	谢谢大家。
430	Congratulations.	祝贺你
431	Thank you.	谢谢

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