你对育儿“过度投资”了吗？北大×UCI教授对谈当代父母的爱、
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:02 | Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening | 早上好,下午好,晚上好,早上好,晚上好,早上好,晚上好 |
| 0:06 | to all our audiences in person and online. | 我们所有观众亲自和在线。 |
| 0:12 | We have a full house today here at Yale Center Beijing. | 我们今天在北京耶鲁中心有一栋房子 |
| 0:18 | I will just very quickly introduce myself | 我会很快自我介绍 |
| 0:21 | and welcome everybody and introduce a bit | 欢迎大家,介绍一下 |
| 0:25 | about our very distinguished guest speakers today. | 关于我们今天非常杰出的客座演讲者。 |
| 0:32 | My name is Carol Lee Rafferty. | 我叫卡罗尔·李·拉费蒂 |
| 0:36 | I am a Yale College alumna and also the executive director | 我是耶鲁大学的校友 也是执行董事 |
| 0:41 | for Yale Center Beijing, | 北京耶鲁中心 |
| 0:43 | which is Yale University's embassy in China, | 是耶鲁大学驻华大使馆 |
展开字幕全文（1539 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening | 早上好,下午好,晚上好,早上好,晚上好,早上好,晚上好 |
| 2 | to all our audiences in person and online. | 我们所有观众亲自和在线。 |
| 3 | We have a full house today here at Yale Center Beijing. | 我们今天在北京耶鲁中心有一栋房子 |
| 4 | I will just very quickly introduce myself | 我会很快自我介绍 |
| 5 | and welcome everybody and introduce a bit | 欢迎大家,介绍一下 |
| 6 | about our very distinguished guest speakers today. | 关于我们今天非常杰出的客座演讲者。 |
| 7 | My name is Carol Lee Rafferty. | 我叫卡罗尔·李·拉费蒂 |
| 8 | I am a Yale College alumna and also the executive director | 我是耶鲁大学的校友 也是执行董事 |
| 9 | for Yale Center Beijing, | 北京耶鲁中心 |
| 10 | which is Yale University's embassy in China, | 是耶鲁大学驻华大使馆 |
| 11 | an activity center that convenes thought leaders | 一个召集思想领袖的活动中心 |
| 12 | from all sectors for important and critical dialogues | 重要和关键的对话 |
| 13 | on all sorts of subjects, | 关于各种主题, |
| 14 | representing all 14 schools of Yale University. | 代表耶鲁大学所有14所学校。 |
| 15 | We were founded in 2014 and throughout the year, | 我们成立于2014年 全年 |
| 16 | we have activities such as these. | 我们有这样的活动。 |
| 17 | We have musical concerts. | 我们有音乐会 |
| 18 | We have panel discussions on a variety of topics | 我们讨论各种议题 |
| 19 | and we look forward to welcoming many of you | 我们期待着欢迎你们中的许多人 |
| 20 | back to our events. | 回到我们的事件。 |
| 21 | Today, we're delighted to be partnering | 今天,我们很高兴能合作 |
| 22 | with the Princeton University Press China Office | 普林斯顿大学出版社中国办事处 |
| 23 | on this book talk with Professor Nina Bendel. | 与尼娜·本德尔教授的谈话 |
| 24 | A heartfelt thanks to the Princeton University Press | 感谢普林斯顿大学出版社 |
| 25 | China Office and the Yale Center Beijing team | 中国办事处和耶鲁中心北京小组 |
| 26 | for making this happen. | 为了让这一切发生 |
| 27 | This has been a long time collaboration | 好久没合作了 |
| 28 | between the Princeton University Press and us | 普林斯顿大学出版社和我们之间 |
| 29 | to feature the latest cutting edge knowledge and ideas | 展示最新的前沿知识和想法 |
| 30 | and to be able to give audiences here an opportunity | 并能够给这里的观众一个机会 |
| 31 | to engage with authors and scholars | 与作者和学者接触 |
| 32 | from all over the world, literally. | 从世界各地,字面上。 |
| 33 | Today, our talk is about Professor Nina Bendel's | 今天我们讨论的是尼娜·本德尔教授 |
| 34 | wonderful book, Overinvested, The Emotional Economy | 很棒的书,过度投资,情感经济 |
| 35 | of Modern Parenting, which I understand | 据我了解,现代父母制 |
| 36 | to be a more than a decade long effort to decipher | 一个十几年的努力 破解 |
| 37 | if I could make it a little funnier, | 如果我能让它更有趣一点, |
| 38 | it's how money drives society | 这是钱如何驱动社会 |
| 39 | and drives how parenting happens in society. | 并推动父母在社会中的发生。 |
| 40 | While her book is mainly about what's happening in the US, | 虽然她的书主要讲述美国发生的事情, |
| 41 | I know that you will find a lot of things | 我知道你会找到很多东西 |
| 42 | that could be similar or different to the environment, | 环境可能相似或不同, |
| 43 | different from the environment here. | 和这里的环境不同 |
| 44 | So I really look forward to this conversation. | 所以我非常期待这次谈话。 |
| 45 | Nina Bendel教授是总理的教授 | |
| 46 | 大学Irvine社会学系 | |
| 47 | She's also a Faculty Fellow | 她也是系同学 |
| 48 | at the Center for Cultural Sociology at Yale University | 耶鲁大学文化社会学中心 |
| 49 | and she's the author of many books, including this one, | 她是很多书的作者 包括这本 |
| 50 | such as Money Talks, Explaining How Money Really Works | 例如钱谈话,解释钱是如何真正发挥作用的 |
| 51 | and From Communists to Foreign Capitalists, | 从共产党到外国资本家 |
| 52 | The Social Foundations, A Foreign Direct Investment | 社会基金会,外国直接投资 |
| 53 | in Post-Socialist Europe. | 在社会主义后欧洲。 |
| 54 | They were all published by the Princeton University Press | 都由普林斯顿大学出版社出版 |
| 55 | and Professor Bendel herself is a PhD graduate | 班德尔教授本人是博士生 |
| 56 | of Princeton University as well. | 普林斯顿大学也是 |
| 57 | So welcome. | 欢迎光临 |
| 58 | And I would also welcome Professor Li Ping Wang, | 我也欢迎李平王教授 |
| 59 | who is a professor at the Peking University | 他是北京大学的教授 |
| 60 | of a School of Education. | 教育学院。 |
| 61 | She studied and got her PhD at the University of Chicago | 她在芝加哥大学学习并获得博士学位 |
| 62 | and prior to that, she's been at PKU's Sociology Department | 在此之前,她一直在PKU的社会学系 |
| 63 | as an undergrad and a masters. | 做研究生和大师 |
| 64 | Her research covers educational and social theory, | 她的研究涵盖教育和社会理论, |
| 65 | ethnic studies, sociology of education, | 种族研究、教育的社会学、 |
| 66 | and modern and contemporary China. | 以及现代和当代的中国。 |
| 67 | She's the author of the English monograph, | 她是英国专著的作者, |
| 68 | The Imperial Creation of Ethnicity, Chinese Policies, | 帝国创造民族,中国政策, |
| 69 | and The Ethnic Turn in Inner Mongolian Politics, 1900 to 1930, | 1900年至1930年在内蒙古政治中的民族转折 |
| 70 | and the editor of the collected volume, | 和所收集的经文的编辑者, |
| 71 | The Chicago Tradition of Social Sciences, | 芝加哥社会科学传统, |
| 72 | published by the Peking University Press. | 北京大学出版社出版. |
| 73 | So today, the way we will proceed is Professor Nina Bendel | 因此,今天,我们将采取的方式是尼娜·本德尔教授 |
| 74 | will be giving a presentation of her book | 将介绍她的书 |
| 75 | for about 20, 30 minutes or so. | 大约20到30分钟左右 |
| 76 | Then Professor Wang and I and Professor Bendel | 然后是王教授和我 还有本德尔教授 |
| 77 | will all be engaging in a discussion | 所有人都会参与讨论 |
| 78 | about the topic of this book | 关于这本书的主题 |
| 79 | and sociology in general could be. | 以及一般的社会学。 |
| 80 | And then we'll open up to Q&A with the audiences here, | 然后我们跟这里的观众一起开放到A |
| 81 | at least in person. | 至少当面。 |
| 82 | And so welcome, let's give a round of applause | 欢迎,让我们鼓掌 |
| 83 | to our distinguished speakers and let's get going. | 敬我们尊敬的演讲者,我们走吧。 |
| 84 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 85 | Hello, everyone. | 大家好,你们好 |
| 86 | And thank you so much for this kind introduction, Carol. | 谢谢你的介绍 卡罗尔 |
| 87 | I am so very honored to be there with you, | 我很荣幸地和你在一起, |
| 88 | at least virtually. | 至少实际上。 |
| 89 | I had a great pleasure to visit Beijing in 2013, | 2013年,我有幸访问北京, |
| 90 | so quite some time ago. | 很久以前就已经这样了 |
| 91 | And I do look forward to another opportunity in person, | 我期待着另一个机会 亲自, |
| 92 | but today we'll do because I'm so excited | 但今天我们要做 因为我太兴奋了 |
| 93 | to share my book, my research with you, | 分享我的书,我的研究与你, |
| 94 | and to hear from Professor Wang, | 还有王教授 |
| 95 | her comments from her expertise, | 她从她的专业评论, |
| 96 | and also from audience members. | 也来自观众 |
| 97 | I understand that many, maybe parents, is that all right? | 我知道很多,也许父母, 是这样吗? |
| 98 | I don't see them, but if you could nod, | 我没看到,但如果你点头 |
| 99 | that will, I will take it as a yes. | 我会把它当作是的。 |
| 100 | And so I want to tell you that, | 所以我想告诉你, |
| 101 | in addition to writing this book, | 除了写这本书, |
| 102 | and I will share my slides right now | 我现在就分享我的幻灯片 |
| 103 | so it's not only me and my big head | 所以不只是我和我的大头 |
| 104 | that you see on the screen, but some visual material. | 你在屏幕上看到的, 但一些视觉材料。 |
| 105 | Could you let me know if everything is okay? | 如果一切都还好 你能告诉我吗? |
| 106 | Great, great. | 赞,赞. |
| 107 | So this book, Overinvested, | 所以这本书,过度投资, |
| 108 | The Emotional Economy of Parenting, is my baby. | 父母的情感经济,是我的宝贝。 |
| 109 | I have been working on it, | 我一直在努力着 |
| 110 | and I'm probably over-invested in it | 我可能投资过大 |
| 111 | because it's a culmination of research over nearly a decade. | 因为它是近十年来研究的顶峰 |
| 112 | And I thought that because I am not there with you in person, | 我想,因为我不在你身边, |
| 113 | I would share something quite personal, nevertheless, | 我会分享一些相当私人的东西, 尽管如此, |
| 114 | and I wanted to share this photo first of me and my son. | 我想先和我和我儿子分享这张照片 |
| 115 | So I have a son who, believe it or not, | 所以我有个儿子 信不信由你 |
| 116 | just this week started college. | 这个星期才开始上大学 |
| 117 | So it's very meaningful for me to be able to be here | 所以我在这里很有意义 |
| 118 | talking about the book and also in some way | 说到这本书 在某种程度上 |
| 119 | letting him in the world, | 让他进入这个世界, |
| 120 | just literally almost as we speak. | 就在我们说话的时候 |
| 121 | So I am a mom, I was doing a lot of soul searching | 所以,我是一个妈妈, 我做了很多的灵魂搜索 |
| 122 | as well as researching with this book. | 还有研究这本书 |
| 123 | And I think some of you, most of you perhaps are here | 我想你们中的一些人, 你们中的大多数人,也许在这里 |
| 124 | because we all love our children so very much. | 因为我们都非常爱我们的孩子 |
| 125 | And I, as a sociologist, have another confession to make | 作为一名社会学家,我还有另一件事要忏悔 |
| 126 | that I did not write a parenting advice book. | 我没有写育儿建议书 |
| 127 | So I want to set the expectations quite clearly | ┮и稱р辨睲贰 |
| 128 | that I'm not here to give loads of advice | 我不是来给你建议的 |
| 129 | that you can read in through gazillions of books | 你可以通过大量书籍阅读 |
| 130 | that are already published. | 已经公布。 |
| 131 | And these days, online and any time we pick up a phone, | 而现在,在线和任何时间 我们拿起电话, |
| 132 | this is intentionally small print | 这是故意的小指纹 |
| 133 | because I'm not here to tell you about all this advice. | 因为我不是来告诉你这些的 |
| 134 | In fact, I would like to invite you to step back | 事实上,我想请你退后 |
| 135 | and think how did we get here? | 想想我们怎么来的? |
| 136 | How did we get into this state | 我们怎么进入这个状态的? |
| 137 | where parenting feels so hard, | 父母的感情如此艰难 |
| 138 | so all consuming and so expensive? | 这么耗钱又这么贵? |
| 139 | It's costly, it's burdensome financially | 费钱,费钱 |
| 140 | and also emotionally. | 还有情感上的 |
| 141 | So I set out to write a book about social transformations, | 所以我开始写一本关于社会变革的书, |
| 142 | about social change that has redefined how we see children | 重新定义我们如何看待儿童的社会变革 |
| 143 | and what it means to raise them | 以及养育他们的意义 |
| 144 | and that it is a particular historical moment | 它是一个特殊的历史时刻 |
| 145 | in which we find ourselves when we are so exhausted. | 在那里,我们发现自己 当我们如此疲惫。 |
| 146 | And when I say we, I do acknowledge | 当我说我们的时候,我承认 |
| 147 | that I wrote a book based on research | 我写了一本基于研究的书 |
| 148 | with data from the United States. | 数据来自美国。 |
| 149 | And just as I was finishing the manuscript, | 就在我完成手稿的时候 |
| 150 | in 2024, the US Surgeon General, | 2024年,美国外科医生, |
| 151 | sort of the main official taking care of public health | 护理公共卫生的主要官员 |
| 152 | in the US, issued a statement that named parental burnout, | 在美国,发表了一个声明, 命名父母燃烧, |
| 153 | poor well-being of parents in the United States | 美国父母健康状况不佳 |
| 154 | as a public health crisis. | 作为公共卫生危机。 |
| 155 | So I thought that really what I was doing | 所以我想,真的 我在做什么 |
| 156 | was trying to understand how did we get ourselves | 试图理解我们是如何得到自己 |
| 157 | into that situation. | 进入这种局面。 |
| 158 | But as any story, my presentation today | 但作为任何故事,我今天的演讲 |
| 159 | will start with Once Upon a Time. | 将开始于一次时间。 |
| 160 | I will take you back a little bit in history | 我将带你回 历史上一点点 |
| 161 | to another very important book and research | 给另一个非常重要的书和研究 |
| 162 | that was meaningful to me when I was a graduate student | 我当研究生的时候,这对我很重要 |
| 163 | at Princeton University and later a professor | 普林斯顿大学,后来是教授 |
| 164 | researching these topics. | 研究这些课题。 |
| 165 | I was drawing heavily on a book published | 我大量借鉴了一本出版的书 |
| 166 | by a Princeton professor, Viviana Zelizer, | 普林斯顿大学教授薇薇安娜·泽利泽 |
| 167 | who was writing about the 1900s. | 他写的是1900年代。 |
| 168 | Her question was how has the social value | 她问社会价值如何 |
| 169 | of children changed across history? | 儿童在历史上变了? |
| 170 | And she titled the book, I think beautifully, | 她为这本书题名 我觉得很好 |
| 171 | Pricing the Priceless Child. | 定价无价的孩子。 |
| 172 | And I think we all would think about children | 我想我们都想着孩子 |
| 173 | as very precious and priceless today. | 因为今天非常珍贵和无价 |
| 174 | But Professor Zelizer reminded us that not too long ago, | 但是,泽利泽教授提醒我们,不久前, |
| 175 | maybe a little bit more than a century, | 也许一个多世纪了 |
| 176 | children were quite economically useful. | 儿童在经济上非常有用。 |
| 177 | They contributed to the welfare of the family. | 他们为家庭的福利做出了贡献。 |
| 178 | They might even work in factories, but certainly on farms, | 他们甚至可能在工厂工作, 但肯定在农场, |
| 179 | and certainly were doing lots of chores inside the home. | 在家里做很多杂务 |
| 180 | Then how did we get to this stage | 那么我们是如何进入这个阶段的 |
| 181 | where they were put on a pedestal to be cherished, | 在那座乐园里,他们被安放在一个供珍藏的台阶上, |
| 182 | to be loved, to be really, | 被爱,真的 |
| 183 | their most important feature was to be emotionally priceless. | 他们最重要的特征是情感上无价 |
| 184 | Now her book was in the 1900s, | 现在她的书是在1900年代, |
| 185 | so the transformation into the 20th century. | 因此,转变到20世纪。 |
| 186 | This is a long time ago now. | 这是很久以前的事了 |
| 187 | My question is, are our children still emotionally priceless | 我的问题是 我们的孩子在情感上还是无价之宝 |
| 188 | or has society changed so we need to identify | 或者社会发生了变化 所以我们需要确定 |
| 189 | perhaps a new social value of children? | 也许是儿童的新社会价值? |
| 190 | In the new millennium, what would that be? | 在新的千年里,这是什么? |
| 191 | Now, Professor Zelizer had some ideas. | 泽利泽教授有些想法 |
| 192 | Remember, she was writing in the 1980s. | 记住,她在1980年代写作。 |
| 193 | This was a time in the US when a lot of women | 那时在美国有很多女人 |
| 194 | were entering the workforce. | 进入了劳动力队伍。 |
| 195 | So she contemplated that perhaps we will return | 所以她想也许我们会回来 |
| 196 | to a useful child, as she called it. | 给一个有用的孩子,就像她所说的。 |
| 197 | Mostly she meant that children would contribute more | 她主要是指孩子会贡献更多 |
| 198 | in the home. | 在家中。 。 。 |
| 199 | They would be a household child | 她们会是一个家庭小孩 |
| 200 | with parents working in the home, needing help. | 父母在家中工作,需要帮助。 |
| 201 | Now, I wonder, what do you think has that happened? | 现在,我想知道,你认为发生了什么? |
| 202 | Has, have our children become so useful in the home? | 我们的孩子在家中有这么有用吗? |
| 203 | I'm thinking you are nodding the heads, | 我觉得你在点头 |
| 204 | not even in China these days. | 现在连中国都没有 |
| 205 | So that newly household child is not exactly | 所以,新家的孩子 并不完全 |
| 206 | the evolution of time. | 时间的演变。 |
| 207 | What is it then? | 那这是什么? |
| 208 | While our generation, I would say, | 在我们这一代,我会说, |
| 209 | reported doing childhood chores, | 报告做儿时杂务, |
| 210 | only 28% of our children in some surveys | 一些调查中只有28%的儿童 |
| 211 | were actually participating. | 实际参与。 |
| 212 | So that's a major transformation. | 所以这是一个重大转变。 |
| 213 | Now, Professor Zelizer also thought that children | 泽利泽教授也认为孩子 |
| 214 | would participate in some paid work perhaps, right? | 也许可以参加一些有报酬的工作,对吧? |
| 215 | They are creative and capable human beings after all, | 他们毕竟是有创造力和有能力的人, |
| 216 | not just somebody that needs to be taken care of. | 不只是需要照顾的人 |
| 217 | Perhaps they would, you know, sell lemonade, | 也许他们会卖柠檬水 |
| 218 | perhaps babysit. | 也许在照看。 |
| 219 | And it used to be that quite a share of children | 以前有相当一部分孩子 |
| 220 | in the 1980s would get paid for certain activities | 在1980年代,某些活动将获得报酬 |
| 221 | that they did in an average week. | 他们平均在一周内做了。 |
| 222 | Not anymore since the 2000, not even babysitting. | 自从2000年以后 连保姆都没有了 |
| 223 | So I share with you this cover of an article | 所以我跟你分享这篇文章的封面 |
| 224 | from the Atlantic magazine in the US, | 从大西洋杂志在美国, |
| 225 | very provocatively saying, | 非常挑衅地说, |
| 226 | don't tell America the babysitter's dead. | 别告诉美国保姆死了 |
| 227 | When a lot of people would, you know, babysit | 当很多人会,你知道,保姆 |
| 228 | and it was a rite of passage, | 这是经过的仪式, |
| 229 | she, journalist Faith Hill calls it now a bygone era. | 她,记者Faith Hill 称现在是一个过时的时代。 |
| 230 | What's the major reason? | 何为主因. |
| 231 | Well, you have guessed, children are going to school. | 你猜到了,孩子们要上学了 |
| 232 | Even over the summer, this is a graph of the transformation | 即使在夏天,这是 变化的图 |
| 233 | of US children going to school over the summer, | 美国儿童暑假上学, |
| 234 | teenagers from 10%, fourfold increase. | 青少年从10%增加到4倍 |
| 235 | And that was only 10 years ago. | 那是10年前的事了。 |
| 236 | Indeed, I think the pressure in society is foremost | 事实上,我觉得社会压力最大 |
| 237 | to build children's human capital | 建立儿童人力资本 |
| 238 | as a lot of scholars would say. | 许多学者会说 |
| 239 | So these abilities and skills and talents | 所以这些能力、技能和才能 |
| 240 | that we cultivate through schooling, through education, | 我们通过学校教育, 通过教育, |
| 241 | that might increase productivity of young people | 可能提高年轻人的生产力 |
| 242 | when they reach adulthood. | 当他们成年了。 |
| 243 | So the priceless child 2.0 | 所以无价的孩子2.0 |
| 244 | may be this human capital investment project. | 可能是这个人力资本投资项目。 |
| 245 | And that I would say is more the evolution | 我想说的是进化 |
| 246 | of how we have seen the social value of children transform. | 我们如何看待儿童社会价值的转变。 |
| 247 | And now I'm gonna tell you a little bit | 现在我要告诉你一点 |
| 248 | about why this has happened. | 关于为什么发生这种事。 |
| 249 | And I'm also going to talk about parents. | 亦当说父母. |
| 250 | Carol mentioned that I would be finishing my remarks | 卡罗尔说我要结束我的发言了 |
| 251 | around 20 and 30 minutes. | 大约20到30分钟 |
| 252 | I just wanna put out there that my team | 我只想把我的团队放出来 |
| 253 | who are wonderful from Princeton University | 普林斯顿大学的优秀学生 |
| 254 | Press Beijing's office suggested around 45 minutes. | 北京出版社办公室建议约45分钟. |
| 255 | I won't go that long, I hope, | 我希望我不会走那么久 |
| 256 | but just to make sure we're all on the same page. | 但只是为了确保我们都是同一个人 |
| 257 | These are long-term processes. | 这些是长期的进程。 |
| 258 | And even if I worked on this 10 years, | 即使我在这十年里工作过 |
| 259 | I still have fun talking about it. | 我还是有乐趣谈论它。 |
| 260 | So please, please indulge me. | 所以请放过我吧 |
| 261 | Now, parents today, as I mentioned, | 现在,父母今天, 正如我所提到的, |
| 262 | are really very, very stressed. | 非常,非常紧张。 |
| 263 | How does that have to do with this building | 这和这栋楼有什么关系? |
| 264 | of human capital, | 人力资本, |
| 265 | turning children into human investment projects? | 把儿童变成人类投资项目? |
| 266 | And have parents become pressured by social forces, | 如果父母受到社会力量的压力 |
| 267 | not just by their choice and by their love | 不只是他们的选择和他们的爱 |
| 268 | and by their money, pressured by social change | 在社会变革的压力下 |
| 269 | to become what we ended up calling over-invested | 成为我们所谓的过度投资 |
| 270 | as in some ways a provocative title to the book | 在某些方面是书的挑衅性标题 |
| 271 | and in no way a judgment call on any one individual parent | 决不会要求父母任何一方 |
| 272 | who feels so very strongly about what they do with children. | 他们非常强烈地感觉到自己对孩子做了什么。 |
| 273 | So I do want to make a pause here to say | 所以我想暂停一下说 |
| 274 | that when I say over-invested, | 当我说过度投资, |
| 275 | it is to try to understand how we in some ways | 试着理解我们在某些方面 |
| 276 | have these norms in society | 社会上有这些规范; |
| 277 | that shape our very intimate lives inside the home | 这决定了我们亲密的生活 在家里 |
| 278 | in what we do with children. | 我们如何对待孩子。 |
| 279 | And I researched this across the board. | 我全面研究了这个问题。 |
| 280 | I analyzed quantitative data. | 我分析了定量数据。 |
| 281 | I read more than a hundred books, | 我读了一百多本书 |
| 282 | not cover to cover, but main messages. | 不是遮盖,而是主信息。 |
| 283 | And there were even more that I couldn't even get to. | 还有我甚至无法做到的更多。 |
| 284 | And with my research team, | 和我的研究团队, |
| 285 | we conducted 120 parent interviews. | 我们进行了120次家长访谈。 |
| 286 | And it was very important for us | 这对我们很重要 |
| 287 | to not only speak to a certain segment of the population, | 不只对某一部分人说话, |
| 288 | mostly well-to-do parents | 父母多为好人 |
| 289 | that would be eager to talk about parenting, | 那会很渴望谈论养育子女, |
| 290 | but across the socioeconomic backgrounds, | 但从社会经济背景来看 |
| 291 | across racial backgrounds, across immigrant backgrounds, | 跨种族背景 跨移民背景 |
| 292 | political persuasions, affiliations, | 政治信仰、从属关系、 |
| 293 | really the broad diversity of the United States of America. | 真正的是美利坚合众国的广泛多样性。 |
| 294 | Three things in gist that parents told us. | 父母告诉我们的三件事 |
| 295 | They felt they need to invest money. | 他们觉得他们需要投资 |
| 296 | This is where Carol started | 这就是卡罗尔开始的地方 |
| 297 | because I'm an economic sociologist. | 因为我是一个经济社会学家。 |
| 298 | I really followed money to get me to this project. | 我真的跟踪钱 带我去这个项目。 |
| 299 | I'm not a family scholar, mind you, | 我不是一个家庭学者, 提醒你, |
| 300 | but money was so very prominent. | 但钱是如此突出。 |
| 301 | And when I say monies, I mean financial instruments, | 当我说钱,我的意思是金融工具, |
| 302 | not just savings, but various ways, | 不仅是储蓄,还有各种方式, |
| 303 | including loans that parents would take on. | 包括父母将接受的贷款。 |
| 304 | The second thing was equally important was emotions. | 第二件同样重要的是情感。 |
| 305 | Not just that we need to take care of children, | 不只是我们需要照顾孩子, |
| 306 | love children, which is in some ways quite basic, | 爱孩子, 在某些方面是相当基本的, |
| 307 | but how much we need to attend | 但我们需要参加多少 |
| 308 | to their emotional well-being | 他们的情感幸福 |
| 309 | and how much this emotional expression of parenthood | 以及这种对父母的情感表达 |
| 310 | becomes the center of our universe, | 成为宇宙的中心 |
| 311 | to invest our entire selves. | 投资我们整个自己。 |
| 312 | So it's not just about children, | 所以这不仅仅是关于孩子, |
| 313 | but it becomes a lot about parents. | 但它变成很多关于父母。 |
| 314 | To be a good parent is this moral value | 做一个好父母就是这个道德价值 |
| 315 | that we believe we need to put front and center in our lives. | 我们认为我们需要将我们的生活置于前列和中心。 |
| 316 | So this is a mom, for instance, that we talked to | 所以,这是一个妈妈, 例如,我们谈过 |
| 317 | who put it as follows. | 他们这样说: |
| 318 | When we asked her, what does it mean for you to be a parent, | 当我们问她 你做父母意味着什么 |
| 319 | she said, oh my goodness, | 她说,哦,我的上帝, |
| 320 | it means that there's a part of me, | 这意味着我的一部分, |
| 321 | and it sounds cliche probably. | 听起来很陈词滥调 |
| 322 | She was like, I know this is a way | 她说,我知道这是个办法 |
| 323 | that most people would think about it, | 大多数人会想到这一点, |
| 324 | and I just can't quite articulate. | 我只是说不清 |
| 325 | There's a part of me that is outside of me | 有一部分我 是在我之外 |
| 326 | that I think about constantly. | 我总是在想 |
| 327 | It's always in the back of my head, | 它总是在我的脑后, |
| 328 | I'm responsible for, and I love, as I said, | 我有责任,我爱,就像我说的, |
| 329 | in a way that I could never really articulate. | 以一种我永远无法表达的方式 |
| 330 | And I think that all-consuming nature of parenthood | 我觉得做父母是费尽心思的 |
| 331 | is something that we need to consider today. | 我们今天需要考虑的问题。 |
| 332 | So that when you may have heard | 所以当你听到 |
| 333 | this idea of intensive parenting | 这种密集的育儿理念 |
| 334 | that was embraced even in the media, | 即使媒体也接受 |
| 335 | especially in the US in the 2010s | 特别是在2010年代的美国 |
| 336 | based on some sociological research, | 根据一些社会学研究, |
| 337 | I believe the notion of invested because of money, | 我相信投资是因为钱 |
| 338 | because of emotions, because of the sense of self, | 因为情感,因为自我感, |
| 339 | is one that would define this new era. | 将决定这个新时代。 |
| 340 | And this is because overall in society, | 这是因为社会上, |
| 341 | we have seen two broad social cultural changes. | 我们目睹了两个广泛的社会文化变化。 |
| 342 | I will invite you to think about fashion, like clothes, | 我会邀请你考虑时尚 像衣服一样 |
| 343 | to use that as a metaphor, | 用这个作为比喻, |
| 344 | to think about how we have refashioned our society, | 想想我们如何改造我们的社会, |
| 345 | adopting both the economic style | 采用两种经济风格 |
| 346 | and the emotional style. | 和情感风格。 |
| 347 | And they go very well together, | 他们相处得很好 |
| 348 | their clothes match pretty well. | 他们的衣服很配 |
| 349 | What do I mean by each? | 每个都是什么意思? |
| 350 | By economic style, I mean that, | 经济风格,我的意思是, |
| 351 | even outside of corporations, outside of markets, | 甚至公司之外,市场之外, |
| 352 | in the home, we think about investments and returns, | 在家里,我们思考投资和回报, |
| 353 | we think about being productive and optimizing. | 我们考虑的是生产 和优化。 |
| 354 | And this economic reasoning is very prevalent. | 而这种经济推理非常盛行. |
| 355 | In addition to the fact that finance has just taken over, | 除了金融刚刚接管, |
| 356 | not only, again, in markets, but also in everyday life. | 不仅在市场上,而且在日常生活中 |
| 357 | And by emotional style, on the other hand, | 而通过情感风格, 另一方面, |
| 358 | I mean the rise of therapeutic, advice-seeking culture, | 我是指治疗、寻求建议文化的兴起 |
| 359 | self-growth, self-investment, and dominance of emotions | 自我成长、自我投资、情感主导 |
| 360 | as a way we orient our lives. | 以此引导我们的生活 |
| 361 | So that when I say, I feel this way, you're with me, | 所以当我说,我觉得这样, 你和我一起, |
| 362 | you want to hear a compelling story, | 你想听一个有说服力的故事, |
| 363 | not just a scholarly argument | 不只是学术论证 |
| 364 | through my analytical thinking. | 通过我的分析思考。 |
| 365 | And if I were there, you know, | 如果我在场,你知道, |
| 366 | I would want to make sure we're all entertained, | 我想确保我们都娱乐, |
| 367 | we're all having fun, | 我们都很开心 |
| 368 | even in a more scholarly presentation. | 甚至在更学术性的演讲中。 |
| 369 | So that's what I mean by how emotional style | 所以这就是我的意思 如何情感风格 |
| 370 | is something that we value these days. | 是我们这些天珍视的东西。 |
| 371 | And economic style goes very much back to how I started, | 经济风格可以追溯到我的开始 |
| 372 | human capital, right? | 人力资本,对不对? |
| 373 | 你可以看到,这是一个Google Ngram, | |
| 374 | how we've used the phrase, | 我们怎么用这个词, |
| 375 | we think it's something good. | 我们认为这是件好事 |
| 376 | We don't hesitate to refer to our children | 我们毫不犹豫地提到我们的孩子 |
| 377 | with this notion of human capital, | 有了这种人力资本的概念, |
| 378 | even though not too long ago, | 虽然不久前, |
| 379 | this was not how we would refer to human beings. | 这不是我们如何称呼人类。 |
| 380 | Was Gary Becker's research, and he is an economist, | 是加里·贝克的研究 他是经济学家 |
| 381 | Nobel-winning economist from the University of Chicago, | 诺贝尔奖获得者 芝加哥大学, |
| 382 | who started with this research, | 从这个研究开始 |
| 383 | wrote a book that came out in three different editions. | 写了本书,分三个不同的版本出版. |
| 384 | And, you know, in the end of the last one, | 而且,你知道, 在最后一个结尾, |
| 385 | he said that this human capital theory | 他说这个人力资本理论 |
| 386 | mushroomed throughout the world. | 全世界都有蘑菇 |
| 387 | So I'm very curious to what extent | 所以,我很好奇,在什么程度 |
| 388 | you also see it in China, | 在中国你也能看到 |
| 389 | and this phrase and how it's translated in Chinese | 这个短语和中文译法 |
| 390 | may be something that people use in everyday life, | 可能是人们在日常生活中使用的东西, |
| 391 | not only in scholarly discourse. | 不仅在学术讨论中。 |
| 392 | One way to see how emphasis on human capital | 如何强调人力资本的方法之一 |
| 393 | has prevailed in the US | 在美国盛行 |
| 394 | is to compare enrollment in school full-time. | 比较全日制学校的入学率。 |
| 395 | And not only school, but preschool, | 不仅在学校,还有学前班 |
| 396 | three to five-year-olds, less than 20% in 1970, | 3-5岁,1970年不到20%, |
| 397 | and more than close to two-thirds in 2008 | 2008年超过三分之二 |
| 398 | with the figures here. | 这里的数字。 |
| 399 | And one could say, you know what, children just need care. | 人们可以说,孩子需要照顾。 |
| 400 | They need to be put into preschool full-time | 他们需要进入学前班全时工作 |
| 401 | because mothers are not around. | 因为母亲不在身边 |
| 402 | That's not the case. | 则不然. |
| 403 | The full-time employment of mothers | 母亲的全职就业 |
| 404 | has stayed relatively constant over this period. | 在此期间保持相对稳定。 |
| 405 | So it really is an emphasis | 所以这真的是个重点 |
| 406 | of what's valuable to do with children. | 和孩子们有什么关系 |
| 407 | And expenses are devoted to that category too. | 开支也用于这一类。 |
| 408 | So this is childcare and education | 这就是儿童保育和教育 |
| 409 | that has risen eight-fold in a period | 在一段时间内增长了8倍 |
| 410 | between 1960 and 2015 in the US, | 1960年至2015年间,在美国, |
| 411 | and other expenses actually have declined. | 其他费用实际上减少了。 |
| 412 | So if there's a pie chart, you know, | 所以如果有一个馅饼图表,你知道, |
| 413 | with all the money parents devote in the US to children, | 和所有的钱 父母在美国用于儿童, |
| 414 | it is the share toward childcare and education | 这是在儿童保育和教育方面的份额 |
| 415 | that has grown the most. | 已经成长得最快了 |
| 416 | And just to be clear about how that matters for the home, | 说清楚这对家里来说很重要 |
| 417 | it's really this idea of human capital | 这真的是人力资本的想法 |
| 418 | that's connected to increasing economic growth, right? | 和经济增长有关,对吧? |
| 419 | So our sense is that we need to upskill individuals | 所以我们的感觉是 我们需要提高个人技能 |
| 420 | to contribute to economic growth. | * 促进经济增长。 |
| 421 | That's the theory. | 这就是理论。 |
| 422 | And parents should be part of this project. | 家长应该参与这个项目。 |
| 423 | In fact, parents' goal then would be | 事实上,父母的目标是 |
| 424 | to boost children's future productivity. | 提高儿童未来的生产力。 |
| 425 | They would human capitalize if you would like children. | 如果你想要孩子,他们就会被利用 |
| 426 | They must be thinking like economists, | 他们一定是像经济学家一样思考 |
| 427 | which is another book | 这是另一本书 |
| 428 | that Princeton University Press recently published, | 普林斯顿大学出版社最近发表的 |
| 429 | and not only in corporations again, | 不仅在公司, |
| 430 | but also inside the home. | 家里也一样 |
| 431 | And economists are now providing parenting advice. | 经济学家正在提供育儿建议。 |
| 432 | This is a Brown University economist, Emily Oster. | 这是布朗大学经济学家艾米莉·奥斯特. |
| 433 | I'm thinking some of her books | 我想她的一些书 |
| 434 | may be translated in Chinese as well. | 也可以用中文翻译。 |
| 435 | Let's say in the upper right corner, | 说在右上角 |
| 436 | you have this book called The Family Firm. | 你有一本叫"家庭公司"的书 |
| 437 | So in fact, envision that your home is like a little firm | 所以,事实上,想象 你的家就像一个小坚固 |
| 438 | with inputs and outputs, | 包括投入和产出, |
| 439 | and you have to optimize the choices | 你必须优化选择 |
| 440 | to optimize costs with projected benefits. | 以预期效益优化成本。 |
| 441 | So that sort of thinking of economics one-on-one | 所以那种对经济学的一对一思考 |
| 442 | is really being pushed out there | 真的是被推出来了 |
| 443 | for parents to take into their homes. | 让父母回家 |
| 444 | At the same time, however, | 但与此同时, |
| 445 | it's not just about costs and benefits. | 不仅仅是成本和利益 |
| 446 | It's that we are also focusing on thinking like therapists. | 这是因为我们也专注于像治疗师一样的思考. |
| 447 | Parents are having the emotional well-being | 父母的感情很安稳 |
| 448 | of their children first and foremost, | 他们的孩子, |
| 449 | and they seek expert advice, | 他们将寻求专家的忠告, |
| 450 | and they seek other advice to do the best by their children. | 他们寻求其他的忠告,以便他们的孩子做最好的。 |
| 451 | And this is not just in response to economic pressures, | 这不仅仅是针对经济压力, |
| 452 | mind you, especially in the U.S. | 特别是在美国 注意你 |
| 453 | We've seen this emphasis on therapeutic culture | 我们已经看到这种强调 治疗文化 |
| 454 | since the 1950s. | 从1950年代开始 |
| 455 | This is a schematic picture of Sigmund Freud, | 这是西格蒙德·弗洛伊德的图画 |
| 456 | who comes close to where I grew up in Austria. | 离我在奥地利长大的地方很近 |
| 457 | I grew up in Slovenia, | 我在斯洛文尼亚长大, |
| 458 | so when it was still a socialist Yugoslavia, | 所以当它仍然是社会主义的南斯拉夫时 |
| 459 | just as a side note to insert some more biography. | 就像一个旁注 插入一些更多的传记。 |
| 460 | And some of you may know about the Oprah Winfrey Show. | 你们中有些人可能知道奥普拉·温弗雷秀 |
| 461 | I think I looked up that it wasn't quite aired in China, | 我想我抬头看,它不是 相当在中国播出, |
| 462 | but the talk show phenomenon has become big. | 但脱口秀已经变得很大了 |
| 463 | And this is precisely what it is, right? | 这正是它是什么,对不对? |
| 464 | You feature inspirational stories, | 你的故事充满灵感 |
| 465 | the fascination with celebrities, | 对名人的兴趣, |
| 466 | interviews with self-help advisors. | 与自助顾问的访谈。 |
| 467 | This is probably very specific culturally, | 这也许是非常具体的文化, |
| 468 | but some of you who've spent time in the U.S. | 但你们有些人 在美国度过了一段时间。 |
| 469 | know about Dr. Phil, who in fact was a psychologist | 菲尔医生,他其实是个心理学家 |
| 470 | giving advice to everyday people on TV, | 向电视上的日常观众提供建议, |
| 471 | legitimizing that this is what we need to do, | 合法化,这是我们需要做的, |
| 472 | seek advice, get experts to weigh in on our lives, | 寻求建议,让专家 权衡我们的生活, |
| 473 | and we need to solve problems. | 我们需要解决问题。 |
| 474 | Sopranos or the mafia family may have been the translation | 女高音或黑手党家族可能是翻译 |
| 475 | for some who have also watched it in China. | 对于在中国也看过的人来说, |
| 476 | Now this is key because even the macho mafia man | 现在这是关键 因为即使是大男子主义黑手党 |
| 477 | is seeking therapeutic advice, right? | 是寻求治疗建议,对不对? |
| 478 | So therapeutic culture has been embraced broadly, | 因此,治疗文化被广泛接受, |
| 479 | and especially by parents. | 特别是父母 |
| 480 | So I showed you books, and many are really here | 所以我给你看了书,很多真的在这里 |
| 481 | on my shelves as well, that are being published. | 也在我的书架上 正在出版 |
| 482 | There's one that summarizes all this advice | 有个建议总结了一下 |
| 483 | 被记者Anne Hobart称为"升起美国" | |
| 484 | who looks at the century of advice that's being given. | 他们看的是一个世纪 给的建议。 |
| 485 | And one key figure in that advice is Dr. Spock, | 这个建议中的关键人物是斯波克博士 |
| 486 | Benjamin Spock, and I note that that book | 本杰明·斯波克 我注意到那本书 |
| 487 | on how to raise children that was published in 1946 | 1946年出版的《如何抚养儿童》 |
| 488 | for a long time was considered to be the Bible | 在很长一段时间里被认为是圣经 |
| 489 | of parenting advice. | 父母咨询。 |
| 490 | But that has changed with the proliferation | 但随着扩散,情况也发生了变化 |
| 491 | of therapeutic culture, and we see phenomenon | 治疗文化,我们看到现象 |
| 492 | like What to Expect When You're Expecting, | 像什么期待 当你期待, |
| 493 | which is a book that comes out in 1984, | 这是一本1984年出版的书, |
| 494 | and mind you, is not published by a doctor, | 并提醒你, 不是由医生公布, |
| 495 | or anyone with a PhD or MD. | 或有博士或医学博士的人。 |
| 496 | It's Heidi Murkov, who was pregnant, | 是海蒂・穆尔科夫怀孕了 |
| 497 | and after she delivered her baby, | 在她生了孩子之后, |
| 498 | she thought she did not know what to expect | 她觉得自己不知道该期待什么 |
| 499 | when she was expecting, so that she decided | 当她期待, 所以她决定 |
| 500 | to put together a book that became | 编成一本书 |
| 501 | a major multi-platform media complex, | 一个主要的多平台媒体综合体, |
| 502 | so now you can get it on your phones | 所以,现在你可以把它 在你的手机 |
| 503 | and various applications that are out there, | 和各种应用 在那里, |
| 504 | and many multiple What to Expect When You're Expecting | 和许多倍数的期待 当你期待 |
| 505 | that came out after that. | 之后就出来了 |
| 506 | But this was in the 1980s, shifted advice | 但这是在1980年代,转移了建议 |
| 507 | to be given very broadly, and some might know | 给予非常广泛的, 有些人可能知道 |
| 508 | of tiger parenting, especially for this audience, | 老虎为人父母,尤其是为观众 |
| 509 | I think that term will ring a bell, | 我想这词会想起来 |
| 510 | and we're going back to Yale. | 我们要回耶鲁 |
| 511 | At Yale Law, Professor Amy Chua, a law professor, | 在耶鲁法学院,Amy Chua教授, 一位法学教授, |
| 512 | wrote this book, but of course it's not a law treatise. | 写了这本书,但当然不是法律论文。 |
| 513 | It is a memoir of her parenting | 这是她父母的回忆录 |
| 514 | that really shook up American audiences in the 2010s | 这真的震撼 美国观众 在2010年代 |
| 515 | when it came out, two other books | 出来的时候,还有两本书 |
| 516 | that were very important during that era, | 在那个时代是非常重要的, |
| 517 | and I note they're all about people's personal experience | 我注意到他们都是关于个人经历的 |
| 518 | with some research, they're not expert sort of treatise, | 有了一些研究, 他们不是专家类论文, |
| 519 | and I think this is really important | 我觉得这很重要 |
| 520 | that now we're getting advice from many different sources | 我们从很多不同来源得到建议 |
| 521 | because of this therapeutic culture. | 因为这种治疗文化。 |
| 522 | So together, in a way, economic style and emotional style | 所以,在某种意义上, 经济风格和情感风格 |
| 523 | get married to give birth, pun intended, | 结婚生孩子,双关语 |
| 524 | to this investment child, and so when I look at money | 给这个投资的孩子, 所以当我看钱 |
| 525 | for this investment child, I see how, you know, | 对于这个投资孩子,我明白了如何,你知道, |
| 526 | we hear from parents we talk to, Monique had to take on | 我们从父母那里听到我们说话, 莫妮克不得不承担 |
| 527 | a second mortgage to be able to support her child | 能够抚养孩子的第二次抵押贷款; |
| 528 | to go to college of their choice. | 上他们选择的大学 |
| 529 | Then we heard from Henry, who was a well-to-do businessman, | 然后我们从亨利那里听说 他是一个好商人, |
| 530 | who knew how to set up a money market account | 谁知道如何建立一个货币市场账户 |
| 531 | for future assets that the child could have, | 对于儿童可能拥有的未来资产, |
| 532 | and on the other hand, again, we would hear from parents | 而另一方面,我们又会从父母那里听到 |
| 533 | who received the earned income tax credit, | 获得所得所得税抵免者, |
| 534 | which is for very disadvantaged families in the US | 给美国处境非常不利的家庭 |
| 535 | that would nevertheless use this money that was so scarce | 却会用到这么少的钱 |
| 536 | to buy a treat for the child, something special | 给孩子买礼物,特别的 |
| 537 | because they couldn't do that very often. | 因为他们不能经常这样做 |
| 538 | And so you can see through some of these examples | 这样你就可以从这些例子中看到 |
| 539 | how the way parents used money really was | 父母怎么用钱的 |
| 540 | an expression of love. | 爱的表达 |
| 541 | It was in no way that when money got involved, | 这绝不是当钱被卷入, |
| 542 | something bad would happen. | 会有坏事发生 |
| 543 | It was parents feeling this moral responsibility | 父母有这种道德责任 |
| 544 | to do whatever they could, including going | 尽他们所能,包括去 |
| 545 | to financial sacrifices to support their children. | 为了养活他们的孩子而做出金钱牺牲 |
| 546 | So I think that's important because all these resources | 所以我认为这很重要 因为所有这些资源 |
| 547 | mostly had to come from families themselves. | 大部分必须来自家庭本身。 |
| 548 | In the US, support for families is very scarce. | 在美国,对家庭的支持非常少。 |
| 549 | Some people might say that the policy | 有些人可能会说政策 |
| 550 | is really family hostile, not family friendly. | 是真正的家庭敌意 而不是家庭友好。 |
| 551 | There's no paid parental leave. | 没有带薪育儿假。 |
| 552 | There's little support to think about childcare, | 少有人支持照顾孩子 |
| 553 | let's say, as a public good. | 让我们说,作为一个公益物。 |
| 554 | And of course, colleges have become so, so expensive. | 当然,学院变得如此昂贵。 |
| 555 | All of that means that parenting has been involved | 所有这一切都意味着 养育子女 |
| 556 | with money and has significant consequences for society. | 和金钱,对社会有重大的后果。 |
| 557 | So I'm gonna end with sharing some of these financial | 所以我最后要分享一些财务 |
| 558 | and economic consequences with a little bit of emotions | 以及一些情绪带来的经济后果 |
| 559 | in there as well. | 里面还有 |
| 560 | This is a summary of the statement I made before | 这是我以前发言的摘要。 |
| 561 | about how really the expenses for families | 关于如何真正为家庭支出 |
| 562 | have transformed eight times more over this time period | 在此期间,变化了8倍 |
| 563 | between 1960 and 2015 for childcare and education, | 1960年至2015年,在儿童保育和教育方面; |
| 564 | mind you, not for other kinds of child expenses. | 别管其他的小孩费用 |
| 565 | This also means, going back to my point about college, | 这也意味着,回到我的观点 关于大学, |
| 566 | that financing college for children in the US | 资助美国儿童学院 |
| 567 | is not only putting debt burdens onto young people | 不仅给年轻人带来债务负担 |
| 568 | who take out loans. | 谁拿贷款。 |
| 569 | Some of you may have heard about the college debt crisis | 你们有些人可能听说过大学债务危机 |
| 570 | for young adults in America, but it is parents since 2010 | 美国年轻成年人,但自2010年起是父母 |
| 571 | that have more debt, have taken on bigger loan balances | 债务越多,贷款余额越大 |
| 572 | than their children. | 他们的孩子。 |
| 573 | And of course, I waited a long time | 当然,我等了很久 |
| 574 | to start talking about the education, shadow education, | 开始谈论教育 影子教育 |
| 575 | extracurricular activities, sort of this big complex | 课外活动,这种大的复合体 |
| 576 | of activities where so much is going on, | 如此频繁的活动, |
| 577 | including that it is expensive, | 包括它很昂贵, |
| 578 | including that in the US, parents have to take children | 包括在美国,父母要带孩子 |
| 579 | to these activities back and forth. | 在这些活动前后。 |
| 580 | They also end up spending more time, | 他们最终也会花更多的时间 |
| 581 | especially mothers are spending more time now | 特别是妈妈现在花更多的时间 |
| 582 | than they did when one would say may have had more time | 比他们说的要多一点时间 |
| 583 | at their disposal because most moms do work. | 因为大多数妈妈都工作 |
| 584 | And what they say is different | 而他们说的不一样 |
| 585 | from how they think they were raised. | 他们以为自己是被复活的。 |
| 586 | So some emotions coming in here | 所以,有些情绪来到这里 |
| 587 | is that it's not about values. | 和价值无关 |
| 588 | It's not even about religion or discipline | 这甚至不是关于宗教或纪律 |
| 589 | that's different in how they think they're parenting. | 他们认为自己是父母的方式不同 |
| 590 | Parents and surveys that are covering a broad spectrum | 涵盖广泛范围的家长和调查 |
| 591 | and random sample of US population | 美国人口随机抽样 |
| 592 | focus on having a loving relationship with their child. | 专注于与孩子的爱情关系。 |
| 593 | They think to them is much more a priority | 他们认为他们更优先 |
| 594 | than it was to their own parents. | 而不是他们自己的父母。 |
| 595 | At the same time, they are exhausted. | 同时,他们也筋疲力尽。 |
| 596 | While this is such an important part of their identity, | 虽然这是他们身份的重要组成部分 |
| 597 | nearly everyone says it's either extremely | 几乎每个人都说,要么是极端的 |
| 598 | or very important to them being a parent, | 或对他们作为父母非常重要, |
| 599 | those adults, of course, who have children, | 当然 那些有孩子的成年人 |
| 600 | nearly one and a half say that most days they're so tired, | 将近一个半说,大多数日子 他们是如此疲惫, |
| 601 | they can't function | 他们不能工作 |
| 602 | or that their stress is so completely overwhelming most days. | 或者说大部分时间他们的压力都很大 |
| 603 | And that is not how parenting is supposed to be. | 养育子女不应该这样 |
| 604 | Is it supposed to be this grueling labor | 应该是这个苦力 |
| 605 | that is so time consuming? | 这么费时间? |
| 606 | And let's say parents are willing to sacrifice, | 假设父母愿意牺牲 |
| 607 | but is it good for children? | 但是这对孩子有好处吗? |
| 608 | Is it good for society? | 对社会有好处吗? |
| 609 | What are the consequences? | 后果如何? |
| 610 | So I'd leave you with three questions | 所以我给你留了三个问题 |
| 611 | or three issues here that lead to three questions. | 或有三个问题 导致三个问题。 |
| 612 | Parents are burnt out, children are not all right, | 父母都烧焦了,孩子不好 |
| 613 | and societal divisions have amplified. | 社会分歧扩大。 |
| 614 | When some families have more money | 当一些家庭有更多的钱 |
| 615 | to invest into their children, | 投资于他们的子女, |
| 616 | and when so much of this investment | 当这么多的投资 |
| 617 | comes from families themselves, | 来自于家庭, |
| 618 | the difference between families is magnified. | 家庭之间的差别被放大。 |
| 619 | I'll show you just so you get some pictures | 我给你看,让你拍几张照片 |
| 620 | about how these differences have unfolded. | 关于这些差异是如何发生的。 |
| 621 | If you look at income brackets of families in the US | 如果你看看美国家庭的收入额 |
| 622 | by basically a third, except for the top 10%, | 除了前10%, |
| 623 | you see that when parents put aside financial assets, | 你看,当父母 搁置金融资产, |
| 624 | it's not very much for the great majority of parents. | 这对绝大多数父母来说不太重要 |
| 625 | But watch this, the curve is much more steeper | 但看这个,曲线更陡 |
| 626 | with many more resources | 拥有更多资源 |
| 627 | that the families in the top 10% can put aside. | 在前10%的家庭可以搁置一边。 |
| 628 | And this is almost like imagine, | 这几乎就像想象, |
| 629 | when the child graduates, giving them a check, | 当孩子毕业的时候,给他们一张支票, |
| 630 | send them off into the world, | 送他们去世界, |
| 631 | which is either some dollars and cents, | 要么是几块钱和几分钱, |
| 632 | 或于彼岸以一万 dollars. | |
| 633 | Parents are also pressured to save | 父母也受压力要救 |
| 634 | for the children's college. | 孩子们的大学。 |
| 635 | This is an actual advertisement for saving | 这是省钱的广告 |
| 636 | into the state-sponsored 529 accounts, | 进入国家赞助的529个账户, |
| 637 | which are college saving accounts. | 是大学储蓄账户。 |
| 638 | And you can see not only the image, | 你不仅能看到图像, |
| 639 | you have to start so very early, | 你得从很早开始 |
| 640 | just when the baby is so little and precious, | 当孩子这么小又珍贵的时候 |
| 641 | but also love has a number. | 爱也有数字 |
| 642 | It's 529, which is the savings account | 是529,这是储蓄账户 |
| 643 | you need to open to do well. | 你需要打开做得很好。 |
| 644 | I did not come up with this, | 我没有想到这一点, |
| 645 | but it is so beautifully capturing the messages | 但它是如此美丽 捕捉到的信息 |
| 646 | I'm trying to convey in the book. | 我试图在书中传达。 |
| 647 | And it's true that it is mostly though, | 的确,虽然大多数时候, |
| 648 | well, to do families who have these accounts, | 好吧,做家庭 谁有这些账户, |
| 649 | the savings accounts for college, | 大学的储蓄账户, |
| 650 | much less those who are below the 90th percentile in income. | 更不要说收入低于90%的人了 |
| 651 | And you may wonder, | 你可能会怀疑, |
| 652 | because everyone's engaged | 因为每个人都订婚了 |
| 653 | in this intensive financial parenting, what do they do? | 在这种密集的金融育儿, 他们做什么? |
| 654 | Those who don't have disposable resources | 那些没有一次性资源的人 |
| 655 | in the savings education accounts or financial assets, | 在储蓄教育账户或金融资产中, |
| 656 | they take on debt. | 他们承担债务。 |
| 657 | So these red lines are debt burdens | 所以这些红线是债务负担 |
| 658 | that a lot of families accept for the well-to-do | 许多家庭都愿意做善事 |
| 659 | have these days for children. | 这些日子是给孩子的 |
| 660 | So it takes debt to raise children these days. | 所以这些天抚养孩子需要债务。 |
| 661 | And we should wonder, should it be that way? | 我们应该怀疑,是不是那样? |
| 662 | As a very kind of cherry on top at the end, | 作为一个非常 樱桃在顶端, |
| 663 | and I hope the discussion also leads us this way, | 我希望讨论也引领我们这样, |
| 664 | I want to tell you that it was one | 我想告诉你,这是一个 |
| 665 | of the most surprising findings to me | 最令人惊讶的发现 |
| 666 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}好家庭没这么早开销 | |
| 667 | in children's lives, but have increased spending mostly | 在儿童生活中,但主要增加了支出 |
| 668 | when these children are 15 to 17. | 当这些儿童15到17岁时 |
| 669 | So you can think what that is. | 所以,你可以思考这是什么。 |
| 670 | It's mostly getting them ready for college. | 主要是让他们准备上大学 |
| 671 | And this is sort of the greatest expenditure category | 这是最大的支出类别 |
| 672 | for well-to-do families. | 对于做得很好的家庭。 |
| 673 | It's obviously not childcare, | 这显然不是育儿, |
| 674 | even though the U.S. Department of Agriculture | 尽管美国农业部 |
| 675 | that collects these data calls it education and childcare, | 收集这些数据的人称之为教育和儿童保育; |
| 676 | but 15 to 17-year-olds are mostly going to be using prep, | 但15至17岁的人 大多会使用预科, |
| 677 | SAT、ACT、大学顾问、 | |
| 678 | all these things that are part | 这些东西都是一部分 |
| 679 | of the big business of parenting. | 照顾孩子的大事 |
| 680 | Just this week, the New York Magazine published an article | 就在这周,《纽约杂志》发表了一篇文章 |
| 681 | where they called it the pay-to-play childhood | 在那里,他们称它为 报酬与游戏的童年 |
| 682 | because so much money goes into youth sports. | 因为很多钱都用于青年运动。 |
| 683 | This is hockey, but it could be soccer. | 这是曲棍球,但它可能是足球。 |
| 684 | And in my book, as a side note, | 在我的书里 作为副笔记 |
| 685 | I keep continuing to think about these things. | 我继续思考这些事情。 |
| 686 | The youth sports industry I noted in 2019 | 我在2019年注意到的青年体育产业 |
| 687 | was a $20 billion industry in the U.S. | 曾经是美国200亿美元的产业. |
| 688 | Just last year, I looked it up, it is twice as much. | 就在去年,我查过了,是两倍 |
| 689 | It's $40 billion already. | 四百亿已. |
| 690 | So, you know, it's like magnitudes of scales | 所以,你知道,这就像 尺度 |
| 691 | even while I'm releasing this book into the world. | 即使我把这本书放进世界 |
| 692 | So for sociologists in the room who may have heard | 所以,对于在房间里的社会学家 谁可能听说过 |
| 693 | and read in their introduction to sociology class, | 在社会学课的介绍中读到 |
| 694 | this very classic book that investigated | 这本经典书 调查 |
| 695 | how the class of parents, socioeconomic background | 父母阶层、社会经济背景如何 |
| 696 | is consequential for reproducing inequality in generations. | 造成代代相传的不平等。 |
| 697 | It's well-to-do families who can teach children | 是能教孩子的好家庭 |
| 698 | how to behave in institutions | 如何在机构中行为 |
| 699 | and pass on what we call cultural capital. | 并传递我们所说的文化资本。 |
| 700 | Now, I only mention this because I think and worry | 现在,我提到这个只是因为我觉得和担心 |
| 701 | that today we are no longer just reproducing inequality, | 今天我们不再只是 复制不平等, |
| 702 | but that parenting through all these mechanisms | 但通过所有这些机制养育子女 |
| 703 | I've described is a mechanism of growing disparity. | 我所描述的是一种日益悬殊的机制. |
| 704 | And this is not good for society. | 这对社会不利 |
| 705 | And we've seen in the U.S. | 我们在美国见过 |
| 706 | that such tremendous inequality | 如此巨大的不平等 |
| 707 | has had negative consequences. | 造成了不良后果。 |
| 708 | One reader of my book, even before it was published, | 我书的一个读者,甚至在出版之前, |
| 709 | and I don't know who this person was, | 我不知道这个人是谁, |
| 710 | but they had sociological imagination, | 但他们有社会想象力, |
| 711 | concluding that to them it seems that parenting | 认为他们看来是父母 |
| 712 | is a toxic instrument | 是一种有毒的仪器 |
| 713 | of the 21st century socioeconomic control. | 21世纪社会经济控制。 |
| 714 | So I would leave you with three questions. | 所以我要给你三个问题 |
| 715 | What do we really owe our children? | 我们到底欠孩子什么? |
| 716 | What do parents deserve? | 父母应得甚么. |
| 717 | And why should we need to care about the common good? | 我们为什么要关心共同利益? |
| 718 | With a little humor, but quite bittersweet, | 有点幽默,但很苦涩, |
| 719 | are children a stock of private parental investment | 子女是父母私人投资的存量; |
| 720 | to be managed? | 要管理吗? |
| 721 | Should we reimagine how we think of children | 我们是否应该重新想象一下 我们如何看待孩子 |
| 722 | and what it means to raise them? | 养育他们意味着什么? |
| 723 | Another reader of the book thought, | 书的另一个读者认为, |
| 724 | at least for the United States, | 至少对于美国来说, |
| 725 | this was an urgent task, | 这是一项紧迫的任务, |
| 726 | an urgent reckoning for American parents. | 对美国父母的紧急清算 |
| 727 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}我很好奇 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}我还想知道 | |
| 728 | how do families in China feel about this? | 中国家庭对此感觉如何?. |
| 729 | So thank you so very much for now. | 所以现在非常感谢你 |
| 730 | There's so much more in the book. | 书有余. |
| 731 | And if you're curious, | 如果你好奇的话 |
| 732 | my wonderful colleagues | 我亲爱的同事 |
| 733 | at Princeton University Press Beijing office | 普林斯顿大学出版社北京办事处 |
| 734 | have asked me to share with you this information, | 已经让我告诉你这个信息, |
| 735 | while I thank you so much for your attention | 感谢大家的注意 |
| 736 | and look forward to Professor Wounds and Carols | 并期待着伤者与卡罗尔斯教授 |
| 737 | and everyone else's comments | 其他人的评论 |
| 738 | this morning, evening, my time. | 今天早上,晚上,我的时间。 |
| 739 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 740 | Professor Bendell, thank you so very much | 本德教授,非常感谢你 |
| 741 | for this important and fascinating presentation. | 为了这次重要而迷人的演讲 |
| 742 | It was actually my mistake | 其实是我搞错了 |
| 743 | that I said it could be 20 to 30. | 我说可能是20到30岁 |
| 744 | There were lots of numbers swimming around. | 有很多数字到处游荡。 |
| 745 | So it was actually my memory issue. | 所以其实是我的记忆问题。 |
| 746 | But I do want to point to the audiences, | 但我确实想指出观众, |
| 747 | as well as the online audience | 以及在线受众 |
| 748 | that this book is actually available for purchase | 这本书实际上可供购买 |
| 749 | in English for now in China | 目前在中国使用英语 |
| 750 | through the PUP University Press. | 通过PUP大学出版社. |
| 751 | So at present we have books here at the venue | 所以现在这里有书 |
| 752 | and it's also available online through various platforms | 也可以通过各种平台在线获取 |
| 753 | including Jingdong. | 包括静东. |
| 754 | So I want to start out this discussion with a joke | 所以我想开个玩笑开始讨论 |
| 755 | because as I was preparing to moderate for this talk, | 因为当我准备 温和的这次谈话, |
| 756 | 我其实在看YouTube播客 | |
| 757 | of one of yours as you were discussing this book. | 在你们讨论这本书的时候 |
| 758 | And I didn't know that my eight year old | 我不知道我八岁时 |
| 759 | was also listening while doing other things. | 还一边听一边做别的事 |
| 760 | And he popped up and said to me, | 他突然起来对我说 |
| 761 | but mom, I am priceless. | 但妈妈,我是无价之宝 |
| 762 | Yes. | 对 |
| 763 | So I just thought this is such an important topic | 所以我觉得这个话题很重要 |
| 764 | for society. | 为了社会 |
| 765 | And I'm just so grateful to have you | 我很感谢你的到来 |
| 766 | and Professor Wang here for the discussion. | 和王教授在这里讨论。 |
| 767 | So first off, I would actually like to ask both of you | 首先,我想问你们俩 |
| 768 | to actually more Professor Wang first | 到实际上更多的教授 王先 |
| 769 | to comment on what you just heard | 来评论你刚才听到的 |
| 770 | and kind of what were the let's say key one or two points | 和那种是什么 让我们说关键 一两点 |
| 771 | that really struck you | 这真的打击了你 |
| 772 | and also comment on how those points may reflect | 并评论这些要点如何反映 |
| 773 | and may have resonance in Chinese society. | 并可能在中国社会中产生反响. |
| 774 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 775 | Sure. | 当然 |
| 776 | Thank you, Carol. | 谢谢你,卡罗尔。 |
| 777 | Thank you, Professor Bandel. | 谢谢你,班德尔教授 |
| 778 | It's really thought provoking talk. | 这真是令人发指的话题 |
| 779 | And also the book is really, really very inspiring. | 这本书也非常非常鼓舞人心。 |
| 780 | While I was reading the book, | 我读这本书的时候 |
| 781 | the book actually was a kind of surprise to me | 那本书其实让我很惊讶 |
| 782 | because as you suggested at the very beginning, | 因为正如你一开始建议的那样 |
| 783 | the book is not for parents who are seeking advice, right? | 这本书不是给那些寻求建议的父母的 对吧? |
| 784 | But I think that title, | 但我认为这个标题, |
| 785 | because the title is called emotional economy of parenting. | 因为这个标题被称为"父母养育的情感经济". |
| 786 | And I think most of the audience coming here today, | 我认为大多数观众今天会来这里 |
| 787 | they definitely, they carry the hope | 他们肯定带着希望 |
| 788 | that they are seeking some advice from someone | 他们向别人寻求建议, |
| 789 | who can really tell them what to do. | 谁能真正告诉他们该怎么做。 |
| 790 | So that's also some of my initial kind of response. | 这也是我最初的反应 |
| 791 | And my second saying that really surprised me that, | 我的第二句话让我很惊讶, |
| 792 | okay, I think this is a moral emotional economy. | 好吧,我认为这是一个道德情感经济。 |
| 793 | So is this another book that actually is telling us | 这本书真的告诉我们 |
| 794 | or sharing all of our parenting anxiety? | 还是分享我们所有父母的焦虑? |
| 795 | So that's my second guess. | 所以这是我的第二个猜测。 |
| 796 | But then while I finished the book, I realized it's not. | 但是当我完成这本书的时候,我意识到它不是。 |
| 797 | And it's really a great book because as you say, | 这本书真的很棒 因为如你所说 |
| 798 | you are an economic sociologist. | 你是一个经济社会学家。 |
| 799 | And I really appreciate this, well, | 我真的很感激这个,嗯, |
| 800 | very analytical part of the book | 书中非常分析的部分 |
| 801 | that actually teaser gives clarifies that, | 这其实是取笑者 澄清, |
| 802 | well, most of our parents sitting here or online | 我们大多数父母坐在这里或者在线上 |
| 803 | who are worrying about their anxiety, | 他们为自己的忧愁而忧愁, |
| 804 | there is like very deep underlining | 这就像非常深刻的强调 |
| 805 | social mechanisms for that. | 社会机制。 |
| 806 | And I think that's the thing that really strikes me, | 我认为这是真正让我印象深刻的东西, |
| 807 | but I really like that point. | 但我真的很喜欢这一点。 |
| 808 | And also when you talk about, | 当你谈论, |
| 809 | we mentioned Vivian Salazar's very classical book, | 我们提到薇薇安·萨拉扎的经典著作 |
| 810 | Pricing the Priceless. | 定价无价。 |
| 811 | And I think that your whole book just reveals to us | 我觉得你的整本书都告诉我们了 |
| 812 | what is pricing, how this pricing actually works. | 定价是什么, 这个定价是如何实际运作的。 |
| 813 | And I think that part is very, very fascinating | 我觉得那部分非常非常迷人 |
| 814 | because you just analyze for us how this financing process | 因为你只是为我们分析 这个融资过程 |
| 815 | or this financing project is working out. | 或这个融资项目正在运行中。 |
| 816 | And I think that part is very American, | 我觉得那部分非常美国化 |
| 817 | but some of it also echoes | 但其中一部分也回响 |
| 818 | to our current situation in China. | 我们中国的现状。 |
| 819 | For example, you talk about all those, | 比如说,你谈论所有这些, |
| 820 | well, raising your child just like you're making | 抚育你的孩子就像你做的一样 |
| 821 | all those investment plans. | 所有这些投资计划。 |
| 822 | So we should be careful about time, | 所以我们要小心时间 |
| 823 | for example, time management. | 例如,时间管理。 |
| 824 | And I think every many Chinese parents sitting here, | 我想每个中国父母都坐在这里 |
| 825 | they definitely, when they are raising up their kids, | 当他们抚养孩子的时候, |
| 826 | they're teaching their kids to manage time, | 他们教孩子管理时间 |
| 827 | like manage time, how to use your time efficiently. | 像管理时间,如何有效利用你的时间。 |
| 828 | So I think all these key words here, | 所以,我认为所有这些关键词在这里, |
| 829 | like managing your time, being efficient, being effective, | 像管理你的时间, 效率,效力, |
| 830 | and lots of these, which we originally just thought | 和很多这些, 我们最初认为 |
| 831 | they only belong to companies or entrepreneurs or business, | 他们只属于公司或企业家或企业, |
| 832 | they are just our everyday language in family. | 他们只是我们家的日常语言。 |
| 833 | And I think that's true everywhere, | 我认为,这是真实的任何地方, |
| 834 | including the United States and also China. | 包括美国和中国。 |
| 835 | But I think the mechanisms are somehow quite different. | 但我认为机制有些不同。 |
| 836 | And because you talk about financing, | 因为你在谈论融资 |
| 837 | financing means you invest in future. | 融资意味着你对未来的投资。 |
| 838 | And financing also means you have lots of, as you say, | 融资也意味着你有很多,如你所说, |
| 839 | because in the US context, | 因为在美国, |
| 840 | well, the general kind of mainstream kind of ideology | 一种主流意识形态 |
| 841 | or this norm is that parenting or raising a child | 或者这个规范是: 养育或抚养子女 |
| 842 | is just a family's business. | 只是一个家庭的生意。 |
| 843 | So it's about the family's responsibility. | 所以这是关于家庭的责任。 |
| 844 | But I think this part perhaps in China is quite different | 但我认为这个部分在中国可能很不一样 |
| 845 | because here, I don't know whether that adds the pressure | 因为在这里 我不知道这是否增加了压力 |
| 846 | or actually relieves the pressure, | 或实际上减轻压力, |
| 847 | but here, I think everyone is concerned | 但在这里,我想每个人都关心 |
| 848 | about kids' education, including families, | 关于儿童教育,包括家庭教育, |
| 849 | including schools, including the government. | 包括学校,包括政府。 |
| 850 | So it's not just the family's responsibility alone. | 所以不只是家庭的责任 |
| 851 | So I think this general social structure is quite different. | 所以我认为这个一般的社会结构是相当不同的. |
| 852 | And that's also something I really actually want | 这也是我真正想要的 |
| 853 | to ask you about because you mentioned your background. | 问你 因为你提到你的背景。 |
| 854 | You talk about some of your background. | 你谈论了一些你的背景。 |
| 855 | You came from former Yugoslavia. | 你来自前南斯拉夫 |
| 856 | And also in your book, you actually, you talk about, | 在你的书里,你实际上,你谈论, |
| 857 | by the end, you talk about, | 最终,你谈论, |
| 858 | is there a kind of a more communal approach to parenting | 是否有一种更共同的方式来养育子女 |
| 859 | or raising up kids? | 还是抚养孩子? |
| 860 | And that's something I think we could discuss. | 我想我们可以讨论一下 |
| 861 | What do you exactly mean by communal approach? | 公社办法到底是什么意思? |
| 862 | What are these kinds of coordination or cooperation, | 什么样的协调或合作, |
| 863 | collaboration, who are the collaborators | 合作,谁是合作者 |
| 864 | and how they actually work together? | 以及他们如何真正合作? |
| 865 | So that's another thing that really, | 所以这是另一回事,真的, |
| 866 | I really like about your book. | 我真的很喜欢你的书 |
| 867 | And the third, I think it's also related | 第三,我想这也有关系 |
| 868 | to the idea of financing is that because financing is, | 融资的想法是,因为融资是, |
| 869 | it's like just like financing. | 就像融资一样 |
| 870 | You invest in future, which you are still not knowing about. | 你投资未来,你还不知道 |
| 871 | And I think for many Chinese parents, | 我想对于很多中国父母来说 |
| 872 | they are investing in future they feel unknown about. | 他们正在对未来进行投资,他们感到不知所措。 |
| 873 | But at the same time, | 但与此同时, |
| 874 | I think Chinese parents more like economical. | 我觉得中国父母比较经济 |
| 875 | So I think in some sense, like being economical | 所以我觉得从某种意义上来说 就像经济人 |
| 876 | and being like just being financial, it's different. | 和就像只是 金融,这是不同的。 |
| 877 | So that's why I also explained | 所以我也解释了 |
| 878 | like many of the Chinese families, | 像很多中国家庭一样 |
| 879 | they rely very much on family savings. | 他们非常依赖家庭储蓄。 |
| 880 | They won't borrow too much to support, | 他们不会借太多钱支持 |
| 881 | to afford their kids education. | 支付孩子的教育费用。 |
| 882 | They probably will be supported by their families | 他们可能会得到家人的支持 |
| 883 | or by their grandpa families. | 或者他们外公的家人 |
| 884 | So several generations money was invested in kids education, | 所以几代人的钱都投给了孩子们的教育 |
| 885 | but they won't borrow, they won't be so deeply | 但他们不会借钱的,不会这么深 |
| 886 | like in debts for their kids education. | 就像欠他们孩子的学费一样 |
| 887 | So I think that's something very different. | 所以,我认为这是非常不同的。 |
| 888 | They are being more economical. | 它们更加经济。 |
| 889 | They are being more practical in some sense. | 从某种意义上讲,它们更加切合实际。 |
| 890 | And that's something I also would like | 我也希望这样 |
| 891 | to hear your comments. | 听到你的评论。 |
| 892 | Is there a kind of difference being like being financial | 是否有什么区别,就像做金融 |
| 893 | and being economical? | 经济吗? |
| 894 | And I think that's another thing I'm thinking about. | 我想这也是我在想的另一件事。 |
| 895 | And also when you talk about, yeah, | 而且当你谈论,是的, |
| 896 | another point I really like about this book | 我更喜欢这本书 |
| 897 | is that you propose all these ideas | 是你提出这些想法 |
| 898 | about human capital theory. | 关于人力资本理论。 |
| 899 | And you're asking while you are talking | 你却一边说话一边问 |
| 900 | whether like human capital theory is very popular | 人力资本理论是否很流行 |
| 901 | or prevalent in China. | 在中国流行。 |
| 902 | And I came from UChicago, | 我来自芝加哥 |
| 903 | and I think from reading your book, | 我想从读你的书, |
| 904 | this is the first time I really realized, okay, | 这是我第一次真正意识到,好吧, |
| 905 | so UChicago School of Economics, which is so famous, | 因此,芝加哥经济学院 如此著名, |
| 906 | actually plays such an important role | 实际发挥如此重要的作用 |
| 907 | in like configuring American families' investment | 就像美国家庭投资的配置 |
| 908 | in kids education. | 在孩子的教育。 |
| 909 | So that part, I really like it. | 所以这个部分,我真的很喜欢。 |
| 910 | And also all these familiar names like Gary Becker | 还有加里·贝克尔这些熟悉的名字 |
| 911 | and also James Coleman, because I read that works | 还有詹姆斯·科尔曼 因为我读了那部作品 |
| 912 | when I was a graduate student, | 当我是研究生时, |
| 913 | but I never thought that it was so related | 但我从没想过它是如此相关 |
| 914 | to American policies, so shaping American policies. | 影响美国政策 |
| 915 | And well, if we try to translate it into China's, | 如果我们想把它翻译成中国的 |
| 916 | Chinese context, I think probably like, | 中国背景,我认为可能像, |
| 917 | well, for many of our, | 对很多人来说, |
| 918 | because I'm now working in the school of education, | 因为我现在在教育学院工作 |
| 919 | and I think for many of the educational theories | 我觉得许多教育理论 |
| 920 | and also educational research, | 以及教育研究, |
| 921 | especially in the field of say, | 特别是在说, |
| 922 | economical education or educational economics. | 经济教育或教育经济学。 |
| 923 | So many of such subfields research still quite much, | 许多这样的子领域研究仍然相当多, |
| 924 | like they are very much pinned down by human capital theory. | 就像他们被人力资本理论所束缚 |
| 925 | And so they quite believe in this investment | 所以他们相信投资 |
| 926 | in human talents and the skills will improve | 人类才能和技能的提高 |
| 927 | while their future career opportunities | 未来职业机会 |
| 928 | and therefore increase the social welfare. | 从而增加社会福利。 |
| 929 | I think this kind of idea is still in our textbook. | 我认为这种想法还在我们的教科书中. |
| 930 | And, but to what extent actually is not just its impact, | 而且,但实际上的程度 不仅仅是它的影响, |
| 931 | it's not just confined in classroom, | 不仅仅是在课堂上, |
| 932 | just in students seminars, | 在学生研讨会上 |
| 933 | but instead is a kind of a whole societal recognition. | 但却是一种整个社会的认可。 |
| 934 | I'm not quite sure. | 我不太确定,我还不知道 |
| 935 | I think that part probably is more fragmented. | 我认为这个部分可能比较零散。 |
| 936 | It's not like a whole colossal kind of piece of, | 这不像是一大块 |
| 937 | well, everyone recognized they should like, | 好了,每个人都承认 他们应该, |
| 938 | they believe in human capital. | 他们相信人力资本。 |
| 939 | And also when you, I think in your writing, | 而且当你,我在你的写作中认为, |
| 940 | you mentioned like the human capital, | 你提到像人力资本, |
| 941 | when Gary Baker proposed the human capital theory, | 当加里・贝克提出 人力资本理论, |
| 942 | he also point out there is not just this kind of | 他还指出,不仅有这种 |
| 943 | monetary reward, but also psychic, | 金钱奖励,还有灵媒 |
| 944 | in your word, like psychic reward. | 用你的话来说,就像灵媒奖励。 |
| 945 | And I think that part is, well, | 我认为这个部分是,嗯, |
| 946 | many of us when we read Gary Baker's work, | 我们很多人读Gary Baker的作品时 |
| 947 | we have, we neglected that part. | 我们忽略了那部分 |
| 948 | We didn't hear about that. | 我们没听说 |
| 949 | Well, it's investment in human capital | 是投资人力资本 |
| 950 | actually makes you feel not just that you are successful, | 让你不觉得自己成功 |
| 951 | but actually you are emotionally rewarding. | 但实际上,你在情感上是有回报的。 |
| 952 | There is psychic reward. | 有灵媒的奖励。 |
| 953 | I really like this part, | 我真的很喜欢这个部分, |
| 954 | and especially because it connects to your second diagnosis, | 特别是因为这与你的第二次诊断有关 |
| 955 | like, well, this is the whole, it's about education. | 就像,嗯,这是整个, 这是关于教育。 |
| 956 | It's about emotion. | 这是关于情感。 |
| 957 | It's about a whole therapeutic culture. | 这是关于整个治疗文化。 |
| 958 | It really touches people's psychology, | 它真的触动了人们的心理 |
| 959 | that deep mind, instead of just well-being calculating. | 深思熟虑, 而不是简单的福利计算。 |
| 960 | And I think that part is very, very convincing. | 我认为这个部分非常非常令人信服。 |
| 961 | And as for to what extent Chinese parents actually, | 至于中国父母到底在多大程度上 |
| 962 | when they are working or investing in their kids' education, | 当他们工作或投资 他们的孩子的教育, |
| 963 | how much they are thinking about, well, real rewards, | 他们在想什么,嗯,真正的回报, |
| 964 | like their kids get a real good job, | 像他们的孩子得到 一个真正的好工作, |
| 965 | and versus how much they feel like emotionally rewarding. | 和他们觉得什么是 情感奖励。 |
| 966 | I think this is a question. | 我认为这是一个问题。 |
| 967 | I don't have a give answer, | 我没有答案 |
| 968 | but my sense is that many of the Chinese parents, | 但我觉得很多中国父母 |
| 969 | they are more practical in the sense that they, | 从他们, |
| 970 | they are worrying about their kids, | 他们担心自己的孩子, |
| 971 | whether they go to the best schools, | 不管他们去最好的学校, |
| 972 | they get the best jobs, they get a very happy family life, | 他们得到最好的工作, 他们得到一个非常幸福的家庭生活, |
| 973 | but the whether, well, they will eventually put down | 但他们是否最终会放下 |
| 974 | like every, well, their whole investment in kids | 像每一次,嗯,他们的全部投资 在孩子 |
| 975 | into a kind of feel emotionally rewarding. | 进入一种情感的回报。 |
| 976 | I think that this probably quite depends | 我觉得这也许要看 |
| 977 | in like among urban, middle-class, educated, | 像城市、中产阶级、受过教育的人一样, |
| 978 | and people probably more feel such idea very acceptable. | 人们也许更觉得这种想法是可以接受的。 |
| 979 | But I think this investment is not just restricted | 但我觉得这投资不只是有限的 |
| 980 | to assign kind of like an urban middle-class, | 像城市中产阶级一样 |
| 981 | but instead it's a whole societal phenomena. | 而是一个社会现象 |
| 982 | So that's also another point. | 所以这也是另一个问题。 |
| 983 | I think your book is really very, very good at revealing, | 我认为你的书 真的很,非常擅长揭示, |
| 984 | because you show that there is a kind of deviation | 因为你证明有某种偏差 |
| 985 | from Le Roux's book, where Le Roux configured | 从勒鲁的书, 勒鲁的配置 |
| 986 | this kind of division between middle-class | 中产阶级之间的这种分裂 |
| 987 | versus poor families. | 与贫家相对. |
| 988 | And well, these two people belonging to strata, | 那么,这两个属于阶层的人, |
| 989 | they actually, their ways of raising up their kids | 实际上,他们养孩子的方式 |
| 990 | are very different. | 不一样 |
| 991 | She called one is kind of more concerted | 她打给一个比较协调 |
| 992 | and like everyone just is more intensive. | 并且像每个人只是更紧张。 |
| 993 | The other one is that because you have to work, | 另一个是因为你必须工作 |
| 994 | so you leave your kids alone, | 所以你离开你的孩子, |
| 995 | you couldn't invest that much. | 你不能投资那么多。 |
| 996 | But your book shows the current situation | 但是,你的书显示了目前的情况 |
| 997 | is probably different from then. | 可能跟那时不一样 |
| 998 | Now, well, investment in kids' education | 现在,对孩子们的教育进行投资 |
| 999 | is across all classes. | 遍及所有阶层 |
| 1000 | So that's also true in China, right? | 在中国也是这样,对吧? |
| 1001 | So it's not just the way in Beijing or Shanghai | 所以这不仅仅是北京和上海的路 |
| 1002 | or any other big cities, you see parents invest a lot. | 或其他大城市,你可以看到父母投资很多。 |
| 1003 | But if you go to county schools | 但如果你去县立学校 |
| 1004 | and you go to more remote areas, | 你将到更偏远的地方去, |
| 1005 | and you will find even in villages, | 你将发现,即使在农村, |
| 1006 | well, that's generally people invest a lot. | 嗯,这一般是人们投资很多。 |
| 1007 | But well, whether or not they feel kind of, | 但不管他们是否觉得 |
| 1008 | they seek emotional reward, | 他们追求情感上的回报, |
| 1009 | I'm not sure quite this is a kind of prevalent in China. | 我不确定这在中国很流行 |
| 1010 | And so that also goes to a kind of like final question. | 这也是最后一个问题。 |
| 1011 | One of probably my question is that, | 我的问题之一可能是 |
| 1012 | while I'm reading the book, | 我读这本书的时候 |
| 1013 | especially all these interview materials, | 特别是所有这些访谈材料, |
| 1014 | I think they're very rich, very, very in life wall. | 我认为他们非常富有,非常,非常在生命墙上。 |
| 1015 | People just can't help like wondering | 人们总是想着 |
| 1016 | whether when these parents say, | 如果这些父母说, |
| 1017 | I don't want anything else, | 我不想要别的 |
| 1018 | I just want my kids to grow up very healthy, happy, | 我只是希望我的孩子 成长得非常健康,快乐, |
| 1019 | and being alone with them, | 与他们同在的, |
| 1020 | and being devoted to them, | 并且忠于他们, |
| 1021 | itself just is very satisfactory. | 它本身就非常令人满意。 |
| 1022 | And I'm just wondering whether this is, | 我只是想知道这是否是, |
| 1023 | to what extent this is a kind of like | 何等程度是这种 |
| 1024 | parents self consolation, | 父母自慰, |
| 1025 | because they are too exhausted. | 因为他们太累了。 |
| 1026 | So they, okay, this is really rewarding emotionally. | 所以他们,好吧,这真的很有感情价值。 |
| 1027 | Yeah, so that's my question | 是啊,这就是我的问题 |
| 1028 | while reading all this very interesting. | 读这些非常有趣 |
| 1029 | I can't be grateful enough | 我感激不尽 |
| 1030 | for this conversation to be happening | 为了这段对话的发生 |
| 1031 | because I feel that we're not even, | 因为我觉得我们扯平了 |
| 1032 | we're not just talking about over invested, | 我们不只是在谈论投资过度, |
| 1033 | but bringing in all the scholarly work from Chicago, | 但把芝加哥的所有学术作品都带进来 |
| 1034 | from elsewhere that have been formed, | 从已形成的其他地方, |
| 1035 | this very important work. | 这个非常重要的工作。 |
| 1036 | So I wanna ask Professor Bendell to respond to | 所以我想请本德尔教授回答 |
| 1037 | all the important points | 所有要点 |
| 1038 | {\fn华文楷体\fs20\bord1\shad1\1cHE0E0E0\2cH000000}王教授所說的如此美麗 | |
| 1039 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1040 | First of all, I am just so honored. | 首先 我很荣幸 |
| 1041 | It is the greatest gift to have something you've devoted, | 这是最大的礼物 有你已经奉献的东西, |
| 1042 | such a big part of one's life as writing this book | 写这本书是人生的一大部分 |
| 1043 | was to be thought about so carefully, | 考虑得这么仔细 |
| 1044 | and to raise even more questions | 并提出更多的问题 |
| 1045 | that I did not anticipate, | 我没想到 |
| 1046 | especially as we try to compare these contexts | 特别是当我们试图 比较这些背景 |
| 1047 | that are quite different than the countries, | 与这些国家大不相同, |
| 1048 | one would say are quite different. | 有人会说,这是相当不同的。 |
| 1049 | So when you mentioned some of the commonalities, | 当你提到一些共同点时 |
| 1050 | I was very intrigued and would all want to know much more | 我非常感兴趣,而且大家都想知道更多 |
| 1051 | about all these wonderful points and comments that you made. | 关于你所说的这些精彩的观点和评论。 |
| 1052 | So I think I'm going to say a few things | 所以我想说几句话 |
| 1053 | along the lines of some of the comments | 按照一些评论的思路 |
| 1054 | will not by any means be able to address everything, | 绝对不能解决一切问题, |
| 1055 | but also, in a way, to bring the audience in | 也在某种程度上,让观众进来 |
| 1056 | when you started with this idea that people come, | 当你开始这个想法 人们来, |
| 1057 | that often people go to the帶道決定會, | 人们经常去... |
| 1058 | not just because they want to hear about big ideas and scholarships, | 不只是因为他们想听大思想和奖学金 |
| 1059 | especially on this topic of parenting, | 特别是这个为人父母的话题, |
| 1060 | we can't help but want some advice, right? | 我们不能不想要一些建议,对不对? |
| 1061 | Want to get a takeaway. | 想要一个外卖。 |
| 1062 | And I would like to ask you back | 我想问你回来 |
| 1063 | about what general welfare of parents is in China. | 关于中国父母的一般福利。 |
| 1064 | You know, US Surgeon General says it's a parental burnout crisis. | 你知道,美国外科医生说 这是一个父母的崩溃危机。 |
| 1065 | I showed some figures where every second parent, | 我展示了一些数字,每个第二父母, |
| 1066 | like half of the parents, are so exhausted. | 像一半的父母, 如此疲惫。 |
| 1067 | And it's really, it's really very hard to be a parent today. | 今天做父母真的很难 |
| 1068 | And mind you, generations have been raising children, | 提醒你,几代人一直在抚养孩子, |
| 1069 | well, for generations, for centuries. | 几代人 几个世纪以来 |
| 1070 | And I just don't have that sense as to how, you know, | 我只是没有那种感觉 如何,你知道, |
| 1071 | taxing and exhausting this may be in your country. | 税和耗尽 这可能是在贵国。 |
| 1072 | And at the same time, my question would be about the welfare of children. | 同时,我的问题是关于儿童的福利。 |
| 1073 | So I don't talk about it a lot, | 所以我不常谈论它, |
| 1074 | and I didn't really cover it in the presentation. | 我并没有在演讲中说清楚 |
| 1075 | But one big question is, to what extent does all this effort | 但一个大问题是,所有这些努力在何种程度上 |
| 1076 | really shape children's futures, right? | 真正塑造儿童的未来,对不对? |
| 1077 | I mean, we take it for granted that all we do is consequential. | 我的意思是,我们认为这是理所当然的, 我们所做的只是后果。 |
| 1078 | But there's research today that says that outside of, you know, | 但今天有研究说,除了,你知道, |
| 1079 | sort of the socioeconomic background of families | 家庭的社会经济背景 |
| 1080 | and the resources that families have, | 以及家庭拥有的资源, |
| 1081 | any one additional decision and, you know, | 任何额外的决定,你知道, |
| 1082 | overburdening ourselves with is this right or should I do more? | 自己负担过重是正确还是我应该做更多? |
| 1083 | What do I need to be better at? | 我还需要什么更好? |
| 1084 | It's not impacting how children turn out in the end. | 这不会影响孩子最终的结局. |
| 1085 | So this effort, right, one can ask how consequential it is | 所以,这个努力,是的,人们可以 问它是怎样的结果 |
| 1086 | and could it sometimes even be counterproductive? | 有时甚至会适得其反吗? |
| 1087 | So I'm coming back to this question of welfare of children | 所以,我回到这个 关于儿童福利的问题 |
| 1088 | that in the U.S. especially is very much front and center. | 特别是在美国 是非常前沿和中心。 |
| 1089 | Mind you, as an economic sociologist, | 提醒你,作为一个经济社会学家, |
| 1090 | I never thought I would get to emotions as much. | 我从来没想过我会 得到的情感这么多。 |
| 1091 | I never thought I would get to emotional well-being, | 我从来没有想过我会得到 情感幸福, |
| 1092 | including mental health issues that a lot of discussion | 包括许多讨论的精神健康问题 |
| 1093 | for our young people in the U.S. is currently about. | 对我们的年轻人来说,美国正在发展。 |
| 1094 | And a lot of it is related to people's use of phones | 很多人都喜欢用电话 |
| 1095 | and creating an anxious generation, | 并创造一世代, |
| 1096 | as my colleague Jonathan Haidt, psychologist from NYU, has proposed. | 正如我的同事Jonathan Haidt, 来自纽约大学的心理学家, 提议。 |
| 1097 | But it's also, some scholars say, because of this over-invested, | 但也有学者说 因为投资过多 |
| 1098 | over-managing approach to parenting. | 过度管理育儿方式。 |
| 1099 | And I'm talking about the U.S. context especially these days. | 我说的是美国的背景 特别是现在 |
| 1100 | If you think about it, when so much money gets involved, | 如果你考虑一下,当这么多钱涉及, |
| 1101 | then of course one feels the stakes are really high. | 当然,我们觉得 风险是很高的。 |
| 1102 | And that involvement continues to be very intense | 而这种参与仍然非常激烈 |
| 1103 | simply because it feels like so much is at stake. | 仅仅是因为觉得这事关重大 |
| 1104 | Honestly, a lot of money is at stake, right? | 老实说,很多钱是危险的,对不对? |
| 1105 | So all of these things are related and it's really hard to say | 所以所有这些事情都是相关的 很难说 |
| 1106 | you should back off, you should do less, | 你应该退后,你应该少做, |
| 1107 | you should step off this over-managing train. | 你应该离开这班管理过度的列车 |
| 1108 | Although some psychologists, | 虽然有些心理学家, |
| 1109 | including a colleague from Boston University, Peter Gray, | 包括波士顿大学的一位同事彼得·格雷 |
| 1110 | who has a new book that I'm anticipating coming out in a few weeks, | 他有本新书 我预计几周后会出版 |
| 1111 | talks about how, in fact, we need to go back to give more independence, | 谈论如何,事实上,我们需要回去 给予更多的独立, |
| 1112 | more play rather than schooling that's up-skilling to children, | 更多的游戏 而不是学校教育 提高儿童的技能, |
| 1113 | more opportunities to young people to make mistakes | 使年轻人有更多机会犯错; |
| 1114 | and to learn from those mistakes. | 从这些错误中吸取教训。 |
| 1115 | I mentioned, you know, I dropped off my kid to college. | 我提到,你知道, 我送我的孩子上大学。 |
| 1116 | I'm thinking, of course I shed some tears, | 我当然在想,我流了些泪 |
| 1117 | but not intentionally by working on this book | 但是不是故意的 写这本书 |
| 1118 | and thinking about what may be in the best interest of my child | 想想对我的孩子有利的事 |
| 1119 | is to be ready at that point when I, you know, said goodbye, | 当我说再见的时候 |
| 1120 | {\fn黑体\fs20\shad2\2aH82\3aH20\4aH33\fscx95\3cH592001\be1}他可以自己来 | |
| 1121 | and that I'm not going to be so devastated to, you know, be depressed | 我也不会因为沮丧而伤心 |
| 1122 | or be considering moving close to the child | 或考虑接近儿童 |
| 1123 | or calling constantly or tracking them on their phones. | 或不断打电话 或跟踪他们的电话。 |
| 1124 | I mean, there are some real things happening | 我的意思是,有一些真实的事情发生 |
| 1125 | in parenting of college-aged children these days | 这些天在为大学生做父母方面 |
| 1126 | that are very different from how generations were raised previously. | 这和以前世代的成长大不相同 |
| 1127 | And I think that links to what we were doing as parents when they were little. | 我认为这与我们作为父母在小时候所做的有关。 |
| 1128 | And so when I think about, you know, in China | 所以当我想到,你知道,在中国 |
| 1129 | how perhaps it's not as emotionally intensive, | 如何也许它没有 情感密集, |
| 1130 | my question is, does that then show? | 我的问题是,那会显示吗? |
| 1131 | Is it easier to let young people establish independence | 是否更容易让年轻人建立独立 |
| 1132 | because parental own self is not at stake as much? | 因为父母的自我没有那么重要? |
| 1133 | So my response to comments is more to raise questions | 所以,我对评论的答复 更多的提出问题 |
| 1134 | than it is to give any definite answers | 而不是以任何明确的答复, |
| 1135 | except for the fact perhaps that when you say | 但也许你说过 |
| 1136 | what is an alternative vision and I will end with that | 什么是另类的愿景,我以这个结束 |
| 1137 | and I go very much to this idea that | 我非常喜欢这个想法 |
| 1138 | it's not only parents who are responsible for their children | 不仅是父母对孩子负责 |
| 1139 | that it is good for broader society to think about how we invest in children | 思考一下我们如何投资给儿童 |
| 1140 | not just individually as parents but in raising a new generation. | 不仅是作为父母个人,而且是抚养新一代。 |
| 1141 | So I am heartened and inspired by your remarks, Professor Wang, | 所以王教授,我对你的话感到振奋和鼓舞 |
| 1142 | that in China it is more of a social responsibility. | 在中国,这更是一种社会责任。 |
| 1143 | And I think to think, for instance, these days | 我想,比如说,这些天 |
| 1144 | there's new movements in the US to support childcare, | 美国有新的运动 支持儿童保育, |
| 1145 | to provide universal childcare. | 普及儿童保育。 |
| 1146 | In the city of New York, for instance, | 例如在纽约市, |
| 1147 | the mayor has instituted a universal childcare program | 市长制定了普及儿童保育方案; |
| 1148 | which I think is not only financially lowering, | 我认为这不仅仅是财政下降, |
| 1149 | you know, it's not lowering only the financial burden | 你知道,这不只是减轻 经济负担 |
| 1150 | but also emotional burden of what it means to try to secure the care | 同时也是试图获得照顾的情感负担 |
| 1151 | and if it's not available and how will we manage | 如果找不到,我们怎么办? |
| 1152 | if we have more than one child, etc. | 如果我们有一个以上的孩子,等等。 |
| 1153 | And so this is what I mean by, you know, | 所以这就是我的意思,你知道, |
| 1154 | investment that is defined by society in the future generation | 社会在后代中界定的投资 |
| 1155 | as opposed to parental investment project | 相对于父母投资项目 |
| 1156 | that is so circumscribed within an individual home. | 在一个家庭内被如此限制。 |
| 1157 | And so I really want to know more about how things are going on in China | 所以我非常想知道更多关于中国的情况 |
| 1158 | and what we can learn in the US from Chinese context | 以及我们在美国从中国学到的东西 |
| 1159 | but also what dangers there might still lurk | 但也有可能潜伏着什么危险 |
| 1160 | if we have this global media world of parenting advice | 如果我们有全球媒体的 育儿建议 |
| 1161 | 和TikTok和Instagram 所有的东西 流传如此广泛 | |
| 1162 | and perhaps some of that emotional therapeutic culture | 也许有些情感治疗文化 |
| 1163 | might be even seeping more into the Chinese context | 可能更深入中国的范畴 |
| 1164 | than we are thinking about it now. | 比我们现在想的还要多 |
| 1165 | So just some of my thoughts right now, | 所以,只是我的一些想法 现在, |
| 1166 | maybe eager to hear a couple of responses | 也许渴望听到一些回应 |
| 1167 | but then opening it up also to the audience. | 但随后也向观众开放. |
| 1168 | Absolutely. | 当然 |
| 1169 | And as we open this up to audience questioning, | 当我们向观众提问时 |
| 1170 | the first person to get picked to ask a question will get a free book. | 第一个被选中来问问题的人会得到一本免费的书。 |
| 1171 | So I want, not yet, and I'll ask Princeton University's press | 所以我想,还没有, 我会问普林斯顿大学的媒体 |
| 1172 | to pick the question because I don't want to offend anyone. | 因为我不想冒犯任何人 |
| 1173 | We're very communal here. | 这儿很合群 |
| 1174 | And I want to just put in a few anecdotal commentary contacts | 我想把一些 故事评论联系 |
| 1175 | and throw in more questions for both of you. | 向你们俩提出更多的问题 |
| 1176 | And I think we'll then open up to audience questions as well. | 我想我们也会向观众提问。 |
| 1177 | I was really fascinated by how the share of income | 我真的对收入份额很着迷 |
| 1178 | in a family spent on childhood education | 用于儿童教育的家庭 |
| 1179 | have literally bloomed eightfold from 2% to 16% | 实际开花8倍 从2%到16% |
| 1180 | around in a couple decades. | 大约几十年后 |
| 1181 | And I'm actually very curious if there is kind of a similar figure | 我其实很想知道 如果有一个类似的数字 |
| 1182 | or trend going on numerically in local society as well | 或地方社会在数量上的趋势 |
| 1183 | and the share of income. | 和收入份额。 |
| 1184 | What I would point out as nuances of this society | 我要指出的是 这个社会的细微差别 |
| 1185 | is that it's not just pure money spent on, for example, | 比如说,它不仅仅是花在 纯粹的钱上, |
| 1186 | extra tuition or extracurricular activities. | 额外学费或课外活动。 |
| 1187 | But just like in the U.S., I believe parents and even grandparents | 但就像美国一样 我相信父母甚至祖父母 |
| 1188 | reorient our orbit of activity and real estate investing | 调整我们的活动轨道和房地产投资 |
| 1189 | to good school districts, to be able to get the children | 到好学区, 能够带孩子 |
| 1190 | into the best schools, even careers, to orient ourselves, | 进入最好的学校, 甚至职业, 引导自己, |
| 1191 | to help our kids get into the very best schools | 帮助我们的孩子进入最好的学校 |
| 1192 | and to live near the school and all of that. | 并住在学校附近 和这一切。 |
| 1193 | So I would actually observe that it's not just a share of income | 所以我会注意到,这不仅仅是收入的一部分 |
| 1194 | and wealth spent on childcare and education, | 以及用于儿童保育和教育的财富, |
| 1195 | but even some of the housing and everything actually | 但即使是一些住房和所有东西 |
| 1196 | are investments into the next generation. | 是对下一代的投资。 |
| 1197 | That's one observation and commentary. | 这是一条评论和评论。 |
| 1198 | The second actually as a nonprofessional sociological answer | 第二个其实是非专业社会学的答案 |
| 1199 | to what I think could be a proxy to the well-being of parents | 成为父母幸福的代名词 |
| 1200 | in this society that observe here is declining birth rate | 在这个社会里,这里看到的是出生率下降 |
| 1201 | because younger people are not electing to start families | 因为年轻人没有选择开始家庭 |
| 1202 | or have children, and families are having much fewer children | 或有子女, 家庭的孩子少得多 |
| 1203 | even though now the one child policy is gone. | 即使现在唯一的儿童政策已经不复存在。 |
| 1204 | The policy is actively encouraging people to have three children | 该政策积极鼓励人们生育三个子女。 |
| 1205 | or even more if possible. | 可能的话甚至更多 |
| 1206 | But nobody's doing that or very few people are. | 但没有人这样做,或者很少有人这样做。 |
| 1207 | I'm one of the exceptions, for example. | 比如说,我是个例外 |
| 1208 | And so I think that's a proxy to the actual welfare of parents and adults. | 所以,我认为这是父母和成年人实际福利的代名词。 |
| 1209 | And also what was really striking about one of the numbers | 还有一个真正令人惊讶的数字 |
| 1210 | you mentioned in your presentation is that while the percentage | 您在演示文稿中提及的百分比是: |
| 1211 | of mothers in employment have stayed relatively similar | 就业母亲的情况相对相似。 |
| 1212 | through the years, the time spent by mothers, | 这些年,母亲所花的时间, |
| 1213 | I'm curious about fathers and why that was not mentioned, | 我对父亲很好奇,为什么没提这个 |
| 1214 | doubled, right? | 加倍,对不对? |
| 1215 | So I'm just curious, while not a focus of this book | 所以我好奇的是,虽然这不是这本书的重点 |
| 1216 | or perhaps today's discussion could be food for thought, | 或者也许今天的讨论是 值得思考的, |
| 1217 | but how gender plays into this conversation. | 但性别如何在这场对话中发挥作用。 |
| 1218 | And kind of a last commentary on this with what you mentioned | 和你提到的最后一篇评论 |
| 1219 | about Dr. Spock, Emily Oster, and various parenting advice, | 关于斯波克医生 艾米莉·奥斯特 还有各种育儿建议 |
| 1220 | there's a trending discussion in today's age with social media | 今天这个时代 社会媒体正在讨论 |
| 1221 | which is that parents are raising their children with red note. | 就是父母用红色纸条抚养孩子 |
| 1222 | Advice from red notes. | 红色纸条的建议 |
| 1223 | So with that, I would like to open up the floor to questions | 因此,我想请大家发言。 |
| 1224 | and I will ask our Princeton University Press colleagues | 我会问普林斯顿大学出版社的同事 |
| 1225 | to pick the first person who will get a free copy of this book. | 选第一个免费本书的人 |
| 1226 | So raise your hands for your questions and please, | 请举起手来回答你的问题 |
| 1227 | I would like to ask that you press continuously on the button. | 请按下按钮 |
| 1228 | You actually don't need to lean over. | 你其实不需要靠过来。 |
| 1229 | The microphone will catch your question and sound. | 麦克风会听到你的问题和声音 |
| 1230 | You or someone else just needs to press on the button continuously | 你或其他人只需要不断按下按钮 |
| 1231 | so that Nina and the audiences can hear your question clearly. | 让尼娜和观众能清晰地听到你的问题 |
| 1232 | And I would like to ask you just, you know, | 我想问你,你知道, |
| 1233 | just tell a little bit about yourself. | 说说你自己吧 |
| 1234 | Let's say whether I'm a student, I'm a parent, | 假设我是学生,我是父母 |
| 1235 | I'm a professional interested in this, I'm studying sociology. | 我对这个很感兴趣 我在学习社会学 |
| 1236 | Just a bit of context about yourself and post your question | 说说你自己的背景 贴出你的问题 |
| 1237 | and let's say just one question for each person | 我们只问一个人一个问题 |
| 1238 | because we now have limited time | 因为我们现在时间有限 |
| 1239 | and would really love to involve as many of you as possible. | 并且非常愿意让尽可能多的人参与其中。 |
| 1240 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1241 | Thank you for selecting me. | 谢谢你选我 |
| 1242 | Hello, Professor. | 你好,教授,你好吗? |
| 1243 | My name is Xiying. | 我的名字是西英。 。 。 |
| 1244 | I'm also a professor on sociology of education. | 也是教育社会学教授. |
| 1245 | I'm also a mother and I also have a son | 我也是母亲,我也有儿子 |
| 1246 | who I just sent him to college two weeks ago. | 我两周前刚送他上大学 |
| 1247 | So I share so many similarities with you. | 所以我跟你有很多相似之处 |
| 1248 | I'm very impressed by your talk and learn a lot, | 我对你的谈话印象深刻 学到了很多东西 |
| 1249 | but the chairperson only allow me to ask one question. | 但主席只允许我问一个问题。 |
| 1250 | I have so many things to say, but I try to limit myself. | 我有很多话要说 但我试着限制自己 |
| 1251 | First, I'm super impressed by the concept of parental burnout. | 首先,我对父母疲惫的概念印象深刻。 |
| 1252 | In the past, the burnout, the concept is usually applied | 过去, 燃烧, 这个概念通常被应用 |
| 1253 | in occupational assignment or something like that. | 在职业任务或类似的事情。 |
| 1254 | So I feel you attach burnout with parent. | 所以我觉得你跟父母在一起 |
| 1255 | It seems like you regard parent as a job. | 看来你把父母视为工作 |
| 1256 | So can you further clarify the concept? | 你能进一步澄清这个概念吗? |
| 1257 | From your talk, I also find there is a very important theory in this field. | 从你的演讲中,我也发现这个领域有一个非常重要的理论. |
| 1258 | It's intensive parenting. | 这是紧张的育儿。 |
| 1259 | And it seems that you develop your theory from intensive parenting | 似乎你从紧张的育儿发展你的理论 |
| 1260 | into overinvested parenting. | 过度投资的家长。 |
| 1261 | Can you compare the two concepts and try to explain how your concepts | 你能比较一下这两个概念 试着解释一下你的概念 |
| 1262 | push forward the theory? | 推进理论? |
| 1263 | Thank you so much. | 非常感谢 |
| 1264 | Shall I just go ahead and try to answer these very wonderful, | 要我继续回答这些非常美妙的问题吗? |
| 1265 | incisive questions that I can in no way do justice in a minute. | 尖锐的问题 我无法在一分钟内伸张正义 |
| 1266 | But since I would like to hear more about others, I will be brief. | 但是,由于我想听到更多关于其他人的情况,我将简短发言。 |
| 1267 | Before anything, please contact me. | 之前请联系我 |
| 1268 | I am so happy to exchange, and my email is available. | 我很高兴能和你交换 我的电子邮件可以使用 |
| 1269 | And if you say you were, any one of you in the audience | 如果你说你是, 任何人在观众 |
| 1270 | or any of the listeners elsewhere, I would be more than happy to engage | 或任何听者 在别处, 我会更乐于参与 |
| 1271 | with you in addition to the time we have here. | 与你,除了我们的时间在这里。 |
| 1272 | But parental burnout, I love that you picked up on this. | 但父母的疯狂, 我喜欢你捡到这个。 |
| 1273 | So remember how I said that this logic of economic reasoning | 所以,记住我怎么说,这个逻辑 经济推理 |
| 1274 | has infiltrated into the home? | 潜入家里了吗? |
| 1275 | That's precisely an indicator of it. | 这恰恰是一个指标。 |
| 1276 | The fact that even a concept that was developed for work, | 甚至一个为工作而形成的概念 |
| 1277 | for workplace experience, is being adopted. | 关于工作场所经验,目前正在采用。 |
| 1278 | Economization of parenting is shown through that example. | 父母经济化就是这个例子。 |
| 1279 | That parents would call, when we interviewed them, | 父母会打电话, 当我们采访他们时, |
| 1280 | what they did the hardest but most important job. | 他们做了最艰难但最重要的工作 |
| 1281 | So this is a very central argument actually that I make, | 所以,这是一个非常中心的论点 实际上,我提出, |
| 1282 | that we have become so comfortable with calling parenting a job. | 我们开始很自在地把养育子女称为工作。 |
| 1283 | But should we, right? | 但是我们应该,对不对? |
| 1284 | Shouldn't there be a difference in what we do at the workplace | 我们工作单位应该有区别吧 |
| 1285 | and how we treat home? | 我们如何对待家? |
| 1286 | These days, it's become quite intersecting. | 这些天,它变得相当交叉。 |
| 1287 | We started the conversation by saying how we think we need to optimize, | 我们开始谈话时 说我们需要如何优化 |
| 1288 | we need to be productive even inside the home. | 即使在家庭内部也要有所作为 |
| 1289 | And the consequence is parental burnout, just like in the workplace. | 后果是父母发烧,就像在工作场所一样。 |
| 1290 | So if you read in the book, I have a chapter called | 所以如果你在书里读到,我有一章叫 |
| 1291 | Labor of Love with Intention because it's labor. | 爱的劳动与意图,因为它是劳动。 |
| 1292 | Parents do think about it as labor. | 父母确实把它看作是劳动。 |
| 1293 | And in the last chapter, I questioned that, right? | 在最后一章,我质疑,对不对? |
| 1294 | What else is that? | 还有什么? |
| 1295 | Parenting. | 养育. |
| 1296 | Should it be labor and a job? | 应该是劳动和工作吗? |
| 1297 | And it relates to intensive parenting briefly. | 它与紧张的养育关系短暂。 |
| 1298 | Where intensive parenting, mind you, this was in the 1990s. | 在紧张的养育, 请注意,这是在1990年代。 |
| 1299 | It was about the increasing energy and also increasing money and emotions. | 它涉及到能量的增加, 以及金钱和情绪的增加。 |
| 1300 | But the way the new one, the quality of this experience is different today | 但是,新的方式, 这种经历的质量是不同的今天 |
| 1301 | is that there's simply more money instruments. | 只不过还有更多的货币工具 |
| 1302 | And Professor Wang mentioned financing, right? | 王教授提到融资,对吧? |
| 1303 | So the whole idea of financing and parenting, not just savings for kids. | 所以整个的融资和养育的想法, 不只是给孩子的储蓄。 |
| 1304 | The emotions are not just because parenting is, as sociologists would say, | 情绪不只是因为父母,社会学家会说, |
| 1305 | emotional labor, but it has to be oriented toward emotions. | 情感劳动,但它必须面向情绪。 |
| 1306 | And it has to be emotionally fulfilling because it's become a center of our lives. | 它必须是情感上的满足,因为它已经成为我们生活的中心。 |
| 1307 | So this dimension of emotion is not so much present in intensive parenting. | 因此,情感的这个层面在密集的育儿中并不那么存在. |
| 1308 | That's why invested into being a parent felt like a right expression to not only | 这就是为什么投资成为父母 感觉像一个正确的表达 |
| 1309 | invest money, but invest my emotion, invest my entire self into this. | 投资钱,但投入我的情绪, 投入我的全部自己在这个。 |
| 1310 | So this would be a brief explanation of how I'm extending the theory further. | 因此,这将成为我如何进一步扩展理论的简单解释。 |
| 1311 | OK, yeah. | 好吧,没错。 |
| 1312 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 1313 | So hi, Professor. | 你好,教授,你好吗? |
| 1314 | So it's about some additional thing. | 所以这是关于一些额外的事情。 |
| 1315 | But so first let me introduce myself. | 但首先让我自我介绍一下 |
| 1316 | I just graduated from Boston University, and I think you should be familiar with | 我刚刚从波士顿大学毕业 我想你应该熟悉 |
| 1317 | because you just mentioned some guy there, right? | 因为你刚刚提到 一个人在那里,对不对? |
| 1318 | And during that study, I also took part in some local education activities. | 在那次研究中,我也参加了一些当地教育活动。 |
| 1319 | So I teach some American kids, Chinese there. | 所以我教了一些美国孩子,中国人在那里。 |
| 1320 | And I got to say, they're really hard to manage. | 我得说,他们真的很难管理。 |
| 1321 | They're really, really naughty. | 他们真的,真的很调皮。 |
| 1322 | They're not like kids in China where the teachers say, OK, you sit down there. | 他们不像中国的孩子们 老师说,好吧,你坐下来 |
| 1323 | And if I don't ask you to talk, you remain silent. | 如果我不要求你说话 你就保持沉默 |
| 1324 | No, no. | 没有,没有。 |
| 1325 | They just walk on stage and draw things randomly and talk things right. | 他们只是走在舞台上 随机地画东西 和说话正确。 |
| 1326 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 1327 | So I like to share about something in China or especially in Beijing, | 所以我喜欢分享一些东西 在中国,特别是在北京, |
| 1328 | something around me that is quite different from America. | 我身边的东西 与美国有很大不同。 |
| 1329 | So about 15 years ago, like when I was in primary school, | 大约15年前 就像我上小学时 |
| 1330 | we also have a lot of extracurricular classes. | 我们还有很多课外课 |
| 1331 | And here we are mostly about learning and study, not like in America where all these sports happen. | 在这里,我们主要是关于学习和学习, 而不是像在美国,所有这些运动都发生在那里。 |
| 1332 | And so, yes, like students and kids at that time are really stressful. | 所以,是的,就像学生和孩子们在那个时候 压力很大。 |
| 1333 | But I think my mom is someone that that really makes a difference. | 但我认为我妈妈是个真正有区别的人 |
| 1334 | And she yeah, she's really says have a good model because unlike the other parents | 她真的说有个好模特儿 因为不像其他父母 |
| 1335 | who overload their children with a bunch of classes, like seven extra classes a week, | 他们让孩子超负荷上课 每周多上七个课 |
| 1336 | she just, you know, gets me involved in one or two classes like the Olympic Maths. | 她只是,你知道, 让我参与一两个课程 像奥林匹克数学。 |
| 1337 | I think I think I should know that Olympic Maths is something we had in the past. | 我想我应该知道 奥运会数学是我们过去有过的 |
| 1338 | Maybe after the country was reduced. | 也许是在国家缩小之后 |
| 1339 | Maths Olympiad. | 数学奥林匹克. |
| 1340 | Yeah, yeah. | 对 对 |
| 1341 | And that's directly related to how you enter the junior high school, | 这直接关系到你如何进入初中 |
| 1342 | from primary school to junior high school. | 从小学到初中. |
| 1343 | So it's very competitive. | 故极有竞. |
| 1344 | And I got to say, most of the students don't enjoy it. | 我得说 大部分学生都不喜欢这样 |
| 1345 | So what my mom did is she really gets into the class and sit down in the back row, acting like a kid student. | 我妈妈做的是 她真正进入课堂 坐在后排 表现得像个小学生 |
| 1346 | So whenever the teacher raises some hard questions, she would just raise her hand up high and say, teacher, I know, I know. | 所以每当老师提出一些棘手的问题, 她就会高举双手说,老师,我知道,我知道。 |
| 1347 | And then she would raise her hand and she would actively answer the questions in the class. | 然后她举起手来 积极回答课堂上的问题 |
| 1348 | And yeah, so at first I was thinking, oh, OK, come on, you don't care about your adult. | 是啊,所以一开始我在想, 哦,好吧,来吧,你不在乎你的成年人。 |
| 1349 | I kind of say no, but she just doesn't care about it. | 我有点拒绝, 但她只是不在乎它。 |
| 1350 | And gradually, I am inspired by her. | 渐渐地,我受到她的启发 |
| 1351 | So I feel more brave and I've got more courage to raise up my hand to work on hard questions. | 所以我觉得更勇敢,更有勇气举起手来努力解决棘手的问题. |
| 1352 | So I think, you know, sometimes less is more. | 所以我想,你知道, 有时少是多。 |
| 1353 | But it's not really about how you spend time, your effort. | 但这不是真的关于 你如何花时间,你的努力。 |
| 1354 | But really think about how your effort really takes place and makes a difference in this process. | 但真正考虑一下你的努力是如何真正发生的, 并在这个过程中有所作为。 |
| 1355 | So yeah, as you mentioned, it's not only about money. | 所以,就像你提到的, 这不仅仅是钱。 |
| 1356 | It's about time. | 即是时已. |
| 1357 | It's about emotion. | 这是关于情感。 |
| 1358 | Yeah, so that's something we should think about. | 是啊,所以这是我们应该思考的东西。 |
| 1359 | And gradually, I feel I'm more brave and I'm more willing to overcome difficulties. | 渐渐地,我觉得我更勇敢,更愿意克服困难. |
| 1360 | And I think that's what education really is. | 我想这就是真正的教育。 |
| 1361 | It's not about I do all the things. | 这不关我的事 |
| 1362 | It's about inspiring you to do things like that. | 是为了激励你做这种事 |
| 1363 | Yeah, that's something I want to share. | 是啊,这是我想分享的东西。 |
| 1364 | Thank you so much. | 非常感谢 |
| 1365 | I really appreciate your sharing and big gratitude to your mother for showing with example. | 我非常感激你和你妈妈的分享 感谢你们以身作则 |
| 1366 | I love how you said less is more. | 我喜欢你说少一点就多一点 |
| 1367 | I do sometimes consider that a good motto, even though it is counterintuitive. | 有时候我确实认为这是一个很好的座右铭,尽管它是反直觉的。 |
| 1368 | But it's precisely right to think what is going to be really truly in the best interest of the child, | 但完全正确的想法是,什么才是真正符合孩子最大利益的, |
| 1369 | not because I feel I have to do things because everyone else is doing it. | 不是因为我觉得我必须做一些事情 因为其他人都在做 |
| 1370 | There's social pressure or because some expert is telling me to do or to be honest, because I'm really doing it for myself, | 有社会压力 或因为有专家告诉我 做或诚实, 因为我真的这样做 为自己, |
| 1371 | you know, enrolling in seven activities because I feel like this would make me a good parent, | 你知道,报名参加七项活动 因为我觉得这样会让我成为一个好父母, |
| 1372 | not necessarily because it's good for the child. | 不一定因为对孩子有好处 |
| 1373 | And so in the end, the idea is that children do grow to be independent and they engineer their own happiness, | 因此,最终,这个想法是, 孩子们确实成长到独立, 他们创造自己的幸福, |
| 1374 | something we cannot as parents necessarily ensure as much as we try. | 作为父母,我们无法保证 和我们尝试的一样多。 |
| 1375 | So thank you for sharing this example. | 所以,谢谢你分享这个例子。 |
| 1376 | And look at you, right? | 看看你,对不对? |
| 1377 | Coming here, graduating from Boston University, all the best wishes in the future. | 来到这里,从波士顿大学毕业, 所有美好的祝愿在未来。 |
| 1378 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 1379 | Yeah, well, I'm listening to this story. | 是啊,我听这个故事。 |
| 1380 | It just pops up in my mind where some anecdote I got over last night when I was having dinner with some some people. | 我昨晚和一些人共进晚餐时 听到一些传闻 |
| 1381 | And but it's not a very like unlike this case, this is a super happy case. | 但和这个案子不同 这案子非常幸福 |
| 1382 | But I would I would share quite a sad story. | 但我想分享一个相当悲伤的故事。 |
| 1383 | The sad story is from some student in top universities in China. | 可悲的故事来自中国顶尖大学的一些学生. |
| 1384 | And the student, well, you know, every every month, he's his parents would like just deposit the money in his account. | 而学生,你知道,每个月, 他的父母只是希望 把钱存入他的账户。 |
| 1385 | So he opened his WeChat on that day. | 在那日,他打开他的《怀特》, |
| 1386 | And once he received the money, he just delete his parents. | 一旦他收到钱,他就删除他的父母。 |
| 1387 | And then next month came back again for money. | 然后下个月又回来拿钱 |
| 1388 | And after that, delete his delete his parents accounts. | 之后删除其父母的账号. |
| 1389 | So that's a that's a sad story. | 所以,这是一个可悲的故事。 |
| 1390 | But that shows like, well, investment, like too much investment on one hand. | 但是,这表现了投资, 就像投资过多。 |
| 1391 | That's also some questioning I would like to ask everyone is over investment just to drive the kids actually more economically, very dependent on their on their parents. | 这也是一些疑问,我想问大家 投资已经结束 只是驱使孩子们 实际上更经济, 非常依赖他们的父母。 |
| 1392 | And the problem is that this over dependence on their parents, well, well, whether or not will give them some kind of unhappiness that they are they are very dissatisfied with themselves. | 问题是,这超越了对父母的依赖, 那么,好吧,不管是否会给他们带来某种不幸福 他们对自己很不满。 |
| 1393 | So that's my understanding that is satisfied with themselves unhappy by themselves. | 这就是我对自己不满意的理解。 |
| 1394 | That's why they will just shift this anger toward the parents and believe that parent because they they didn't they don't like this state of being dependent always economically or everything on their parents. | 这就是为什么他们会把这种愤怒转移到父母身上 并且相信父母是因为他们不喜欢 这种在经济上或一切上都依赖于父母的状态 |
| 1395 | So that's something that's a sad story. | 因此,这是一个令人伤心的故事。 |
| 1396 | But that's also true. | 但这也是事实。 |
| 1397 | That's that's also happening. | 这也是事实。 |
| 1398 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 1399 | Any questions from another side. | 任何来自另一边的问题 |
| 1400 | The other side of the room in terms of what's been discussed. | 彼方以所议论. |
| 1401 | The questions being asked, please. | 问的问题,请。 |
| 1402 | Hi. | 顿 |
| 1403 | Hello, this is Michelle. | 你好,这是米歇尔。 |
| 1404 | So thank you very much for the presentations. | 所以,非常感谢你们的发言。 |
| 1405 | Thank you for the professors being here, both from American context and China context. | 感谢各位教授的到来 无论是美国还是中国 |
| 1406 | So I'm a mother. | 所以我是一个母亲。 |
| 1407 | I have been working. | 我一直都在工作 工作着呢 |
| 1408 | I graduated from also from Chicago a lot of years ago. | 我几年前也从芝加哥毕业 |
| 1409 | So now I'm a mom of seven year old daughter. | 现在我是七岁女儿的妈妈了 |
| 1410 | So actually today I want to come here with my anxiety and also for solutions, because we have this topic of over invested in children and parenting. | 因此,实际上,今天我想带着我的焦虑和寻求解决办法来到这里,因为我们的话题是,在子女和养育子女方面投入过多。 |
| 1411 | So in China, particularly in Chinese context, when you have a child enter into primary school, you're facing all the problems here. | 所以在中国,特别是在中国,当你有一个孩子进入小学的时候,你正面临着这里的所有问题. |
| 1412 | You have peer pressure, not only on the child, but also on the parents. | 你有同伴的压力,不仅对孩子,而且对父母。 |
| 1413 | You have to face here in Beijing. | 你要面对北京 |
| 1414 | These big cities with Peking University, Tsinghua University. | 这些大城市有北京大学,清华大学. |
| 1415 | We have famous like hiding district right here. | 我们这里有名的藏区 |
| 1416 | Everyone's putting so much effort to child children's education that they put children into the after school classes. | 每个人都为孩子的教育付出了很大努力,把孩子送进课后班. |
| 1417 | They want the children to learn faster. | 他们希望孩子们学得更快 |
| 1418 | Like in America, you have to prep classes for preparing for undergraduates. | 在美国,你必须准备本科生的班级。 |
| 1419 | But here you started ever from primary school. | 但你从小学就从这里开始 |
| 1420 | You want your kids in grade one, grade two to study grade third, grade four, grade five classes in advance. | 你要你的孩子在一年级,二年级 学习三年级,四年级,五年级 提前。 |
| 1421 | So if everyone's doing so, how could you come out of that anxiety? | 所以,如果每个人都这样做, 你怎么能走出这种焦虑? |
| 1422 | I mean, theoretically, when we are doing our papers, we can say, wow, this might be we'll have best impact to the society after over investing psychologically, blah, blah, blah. | 我的意思是,理论上,当我们做我们的论文, 我们可以说,哇, 这也许是,我们最好的影响 社会后,过度投资 心理,等等,等等。 |
| 1423 | But if you're in the real life, when you're parenting your own children, you're seeing your children's how they're doing their homework in the classroom. | 但是,如果你在现实生活中,当你为自己的孩子做父母的时候,你会看到孩子们在课堂上如何做作业. |
| 1424 | What would you tell yourself to reduce that anxiety? | 你会如何告诉自己 减少焦虑? |
| 1425 | How to how would you tell the society to not to over investing into the children, particularly during this? | 如何告诉社会不要过度投资于儿童, 特别是在这期间? |
| 1426 | I mean, the background, the classes really matters, right? | 我的意思是,背景, 上课真的很重要,对不对? |
| 1427 | So if you put into the context of China, Beijing or among our like graduates from the US, for example, when you're educating your own children, you want your children to go into the top universities in the future as well. | 所以,如果你把中国,北京 或像我们一样的美国毕业生, 比如说,当你在教育自己的孩子的时候, 你希望你的孩子们将来也能进入顶尖的大学。 |
| 1428 | And how do you stop? | 你怎么停下来? |
| 1429 | I mean, investing that much to education is a matter of how you allocate your money, whether to your children's classes or to your own or to other sports. | 我的意思是,投资这么多 教育是一个问题 你如何分配你的钱, 无论是你的孩子的课, 或你自己的运动或其他运动。 |
| 1430 | So that's really a lot of thoughts in my mind, but I just have the question mark, particularly hearing two voices. | 所以,我心里有很多想法, 但我只是有一个问题标记, 特别是听到两个声音。 |
| 1431 | One is telling you not to over invest to be more ideologically think about, I mean, inner peace. | 一个是告诉你不要过度投资 更在意识形态上思考内在和平 |
| 1432 | But in the reality, the voice here is real. | 但现实中,这里的声音是真实的. |
| 1433 | You have to compete. | 汝须争竞. |
| 1434 | You have a lot of peer pressures. | 你压力很大 |
| 1435 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1436 | I want to say that I hear you and I feel you. | 我想说,我听到你,我感觉到你。 |
| 1437 | This is really very hard. | 这真的很难。 |
| 1438 | What was comforting for me in many ways was to find research that actually shows what the consequences of some of these decisions are. | 我从很多方面感到欣慰的是 找到能真正说明这些决定的后果的研究。 |
| 1439 | And I don't know the context in China as well, but I'm hoping some researchers are trying to measure what that stress in fact produces. | 我也不太了解中国的背景, 但我希望一些研究者正在试图 测量这种压力的实际作用。 |
| 1440 | Is there a calculus that works out or perhaps people see that the consequences are not the as we would imagine? | 是否有一个微积分能奏效呢 或者也许人们会看到后果不是我们想象的? |
| 1441 | That is, I keep saying to myself, any one decision, if it's at all mostly because I feel the feel peer pressure or because it's because of me, how I will feel. | 也就是说,我一直对自己说, 任何决定,如果它是什么, 主要是因为我感觉同伴的压力, 或者是因为我,我会怎么想。 |
| 1442 | Maybe I should do less of it. | 也许我应该少做一点 |
| 1443 | So my child is not an investment project. | 因此,我的孩子不是一个投资项目。 |
| 1444 | What is in the best interest of raising them to be an independent adult? | 培养他们成为独立的成年人最符合什么利益? |
| 1445 | And it's true. | 亦复如是. |
| 1446 | There's a difference. | 有分别. |
| 1447 | You know, if you want them to be in a particular university, maybe there's just no other way in the US. | 你知道,如果你想让他们进入特定的大学, 也许在美国没有别的办法。 |
| 1448 | However, it's a lot of hype around elite schools and there are a lot of great schools and there's a lot of opportunity, except we think in our head that we need to play this game. | 然而,在精英学校周围有很多杂音,而且有很多优秀的学校,也有很多机会,只是我们头脑中认为我们需要玩这个游戏. |
| 1449 | And I know it's really very hard, but perhaps Professor Wong knows of certain studies that help alleviate this anxiety by concretely showing that it's not necessary for the outcomes for the children in the end. | 我知道这确实非常困难,但也许黄教授知道某些研究有助于缓解这种焦虑,具体地表明,最终对于孩子们来说,结果没有必要. |
| 1450 | I don't know. | 师曰. |
| 1451 | I'm hoping there are studies in the US, but I don't know about China. | 我希望在美国有研究,但我不知道中国. |
| 1452 | And when it feels that it's a hundred percent high stakes, I would take a deep breath and say, OK, maybe it's not as consequential. | 当它觉得这是百分之百的赌注时, 我会深呼吸,然后说,好吧,也许它没有结果。 |
| 1453 | Any one more activity that the child enrolls in, any one more hour of homework, anyone more, you know, screaming at them because they're not doing the thing that I think they should. | 儿童参加的任何活动, 任何一小时的功课, 任何人,你知道的, 尖叫他们,因为他们没有做 我认为他们应该做的事。 |
| 1454 | It's hard. | 难曰. |
| 1455 | I know it's hard, but we talk about this precisely because I think we try to alleviate some of this anxiety by making it more explicit and finding other parents who think the same that this anxiety should not be overwhelming our lives and should not be de | 我知道这很困难,但是我们谈论这个问题,正是因为我认为我们试图减轻一些这种焦虑,使这种焦虑更加明确,并找到其他父母,他们同样认为这种焦虑不应该压倒我们的生活,不应该尽可能地决定我们的福祉. |
| 1456 | Again, I am a mom. | 再说一次,我是一个妈妈。 |
| 1457 | I know exactly. | и笵 |
| 1458 | And my child says, read your own book, mom, back off. | 我的孩子说,读你自己的书,妈妈,退后。 |
| 1459 | Now that he's in college, I can say, oh, it all works out. | 现在他上了大学了,我可以说,哦,一切都成功了。 |
| 1460 | But I know it's really hard. | 但我知道这真的很难。 |
| 1461 | I do. | 当然 |
| 1462 | I'm just hoping there's more research even to show how we can alleviate that anxiety. | 我只是希望有更多的研究 来展示我们如何缓解这种焦虑 |
| 1463 | We're running up against time and we're running out. | 我们正赶着时间跑 却快没钱了 |
| 1464 | So I'll have I'll say a last comment and also post a final question to each of Professor Bendell and Professor Wang to end this. | 因此,我最后要发表一点评论,还要向本德尔教授和王教授每人发出一个最后的问题,以结束这一切. |
| 1465 | But as Professor Bendell so generously offered, please feel free to engage with her. | 但本德教授如此慷慨地提出 请随意和她接触 |
| 1466 | And, you know, you know, this conversation is ongoing and just so important. | 而且,你知道,你知道, 这段对话是持续的, 只是如此重要。 |
| 1467 | What really struck me was the investment and the crescendo going to the 15 and 17 year old pre-college years in preparation for university because of the anticipation of a so-called good life in the future for the next generation. | 真正让我印象深刻的是 投资 和重葬 去到15和17岁 大学预科 准备大学, 因为预期未来 所谓的美好生活 在下一代。 |
| 1468 | That investment. | 那个投资。 |
| 1469 | But I also want to note an interesting difference, perhaps in the spectrum of a capitalist society and a socialist society and harking back to over the weekend, I just saw some college classmates for a reunion. | 但我也想指出一个有趣的区别,也许在一个资本主义社会和社会主义社会的方方面面,在周末时,我刚刚看到一些大学同学为了重聚. |
| 1470 | And back in the 90s, when we were going to university in the US, our all in costs, even if we didn't have scholarship, would be around twenty to thirty thousand US dollars in contrast to almost a six figure hundred thousand US dollars these days per year. | 早在90年代,当我们在美国上大学时, 我们的全部费用,即使我们没有奖学金, 也会是两万到三万美元, 与现在每年的近六十万美元相比。 |
| 1471 | And this is in contrast to in today's China for, let's say, one of the top universities, Peking University or Tsinghua University, the annual tuition is just about a couple thousand US dollars, two thousand US dollars. | 而这与今天的中国形成对比,比如说,是顶尖的大学之一,北京大学或清华大学,每年的学费只有几千美元左右,两千美元左右. |
| 1472 | So I just want to give this context more food for thought. | 所以我只想给这个背景更多的思考。 |
| 1473 | I know you all will be in discussion very soon over email across the Pacific, and I'm just so happy that this discussion is the beginning of many more. | 我知道你们很快会通过电子邮件在全太平洋展开讨论, 我只是很高兴这次讨论是更多讨论的开始。 |
| 1474 | And the last question I want to leave with each of you is, you know, and harkening back to the last question posed by a very knowledgeable mother and professional. | 最后我要向你们每个人提出一个问题, 你知道,然后回到一个非常有知识的母亲和专业人士提出的最后一个问题。 |
| 1475 | What are what, if any, would you suggest for society and policymakers and people, individuals like you and me to kind of help improve and kind of tackle the tragedy of the parenting comments? | 你建议社会、决策者、人民、你我这样的个人 如何帮助改善和解决父母的悲剧呢? |
| 1476 | As you mentioned in the book, what can each of us do? | 正如你在书中所提到的,我们每个人都能做什么? |
| 1477 | What can society do? | 社会能做什么? |
| 1478 | Society do? | 社会? |
| 1479 | Or what might policymakers do to alleviate the situation? | 或者决策者可以做些什么来缓解这种情况? |
| 1480 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1481 | Maybe we'll have Professor Wang first. | 也许我们先找王教授 |
| 1482 | Yeah, well, I'm I was reading Professor Bendel's book. | 我在读本德尔教授的书 |
| 1483 | I noticed that she talked about to what extent, like, well, education should be brought back to be a kind of social thing. | 我注意到,她谈到 教育应该恢复到什么程度, 比如说, 教育应该成为一种社会的东西。 |
| 1484 | Like instead of it's just individual families investment or individual family family firm. | 与其说是家庭投资 不如说是家庭企业投资 |
| 1485 | But instead, I like the idea of generation, because when each family make the decision about your kids, it's like your individual choice. | 但是,我更喜欢代代相传的想法, 因为当每个家庭决定你的孩子, 这就像你个人的选择。 |
| 1486 | But as a whole, like human being, we live in the generation. | 但整体上,和人类一样,我们生活在一代人中. |
| 1487 | So the effect of any kind of educational individual educational choices come together. | 因此,任何种类的教育个人教育选择的效果都聚集在一起. |
| 1488 | What's the effect on a whole generation? | 对一代人有什么影响? |
| 1489 | I think that's something should be brought into our education. | 我认为这应该带进我们的教育中。 |
| 1490 | So when we educate our kids and also especially when we like like parents, when we talk about education, we need this kind of education about you are part of the generation. | 所以当我们教育我们的孩子, 特别是当我们喜欢父母的时候, 当我们谈论教育的时候, 我们需要这种关于你的教育 成为一代的一部分。 |
| 1491 | And your individual choice on your kids education is not just individual because all these individuals, they come together, they make up the whole generation. | 你个人对孩子的教育的选择不仅仅是个人的, 因为所有这些个人, 他们聚集在一起,他们组成了整个一代。 |
| 1492 | And so that's something I think we should be like as educator, we should constantly keep in mind is that what will our kids turn out to be? | 因此,我认为我们应该像教育家一样, 我们应该时刻牢记, 我们的孩子会变成什么样子? |
| 1493 | Like in next 20 years or 30 years when they are no longer kids, but they are the pillars of the society, what they can do, what they can contribute and what kind of society actually they can make. | 在未来20年或30年, 当他们不再是孩子时, 但他们是社会的支柱, 他们能做什么, 他们能做什么, 他们能做什么, |
| 1494 | And I think that kind of vision or that kind of thinking should be brought into our education. | 我认为应该把这种想法或这种想法引入我们的教育之中。 |
| 1495 | When we educate our kids, it's not just about learning skills, learning abilities, make them successful, being competent, being very brilliant. | 当我们教育我们的孩子时, 不仅仅是学习技能,学习能力, 让他们成功,有能力,非常聪明。 |
| 1496 | But also, what are you going to contribute as a member of the whole generation in 20 years? | 20年后你作为整个一代的一员 会做出什么贡献? |
| 1497 | Because in 20 years, the burden of the whole burden of the society will be on your shoulder. | 因为20年后,全社会负担的担子,将放在你的肩上. |
| 1498 | And so that's something I think we really should keep in mind in our future. | 因此,我认为我们应该 记住我们的未来。 |
| 1499 | And also for individual like for as individual parents, I sometimes also think, well, it's a kind of self reflection. | 对于个人来说,就像作为个人父母一样, 有时候我也会认为, 这是一种自我反思。 |
| 1500 | So all these kind of enrichment, what we call like this extra, it's not just extra curriculum, but it's enrichment to make you kind of even more versatile enrichment, all these programs. | 所以所有这些浓缩,我们称之为额外浓缩, 不仅仅是额外的课程, 而是浓缩,使你更具有多功能浓缩, 所有这些方案。 |
| 1501 | And how much is that is about like play and or free play. | 游戏和自由游戏是多少? |
| 1502 | And I think as parents, we probably all encountered this moment like when your kids are just doing aimless, like kind of wandering, playing. | 我想,作为父母,我们可能都遇到这个时刻 就像你的孩子正在做无目的, 像那种游荡,玩耍。 |
| 1503 | You are worrying about them just wasting time. | 你担心他们只是浪费时间 |
| 1504 | And so I think this kind of mindset should also be kind of changed because otherwise all this enrichment is just a calculated learning, right? | 所以我认为这种思维方式也应该有所改变, 因为否则所有这一切的丰富 仅仅是一种精心设计的学习,对吧? |
| 1505 | It's not about enrichment. | 这不是浓缩。 |
| 1506 | So we don't allow our kids to have entertainment. | 所以我们不让我们的孩子有娱乐。 |
| 1507 | And but I think entertainment and play just aimlessly is part of their life. | 但我认为娱乐和玩耍 是他们生活的一部分。 |
| 1508 | It's important. | 这很重要 |
| 1509 | And as adults, we know we all want some leisure time, not doing nothing. | 作为成年人,我们都知道我们想要一些闲暇时间,而不是什么都不做。 |
| 1510 | And so that part, I think we that's also I would suggest all parents just leave some space for real enrichment, kind of real play instead of just another label like just for doing work. | 因此,我想我们也建议所有的父母 留下一些空间, 真正丰富, 一种真正的游戏, 而不是像工作一样的标签。 |
| 1511 | That's also a lesson I learned from my son. | 这也是我从我儿子身上学到的教训. |
| 1512 | OK, one more thumbs up or two more to these wonderful ideas. | 好吧,再用一根拇指 或两个以上 这些美妙的想法。 |
| 1513 | I so agree. | 我同意这一点。 |
| 1514 | And they come from an educational researcher and expert, Professor Wong. | 他们来自一位教育研究员和专家,黄教授. |
| 1515 | So going back to the question of what could parents do, if this comes as expert advice, I think it's worthwhile to listen to it. | 所以回到父母能做什么的问题, 如果这是专家的建议, 我认为值得倾听。 |
| 1516 | It will be good for parents and it will be good for children. | 这对父母和孩子都有好处。 |
| 1517 | I love the idea of generations. | 我喜欢世代的想法。 |
| 1518 | And I think in the US, especially we have privatized parenting. | 我想在美国,特别是我们已经把养育子女私有化了。 |
| 1519 | Child rearing is so much just about the individual's parents responsibility that to think about raising the next generation as a society is really important. | 抚养孩子是个人的父母的责任, 考虑把下一代作为一个社会来抚养, 是非常重要的。 |
| 1520 | And one last thing, if anything, I've learned is that what we do is not set in stone. | 最后一件事,如果有的话,我了解到,我们所做的不是一成不变的。 |
| 1521 | It's not necessarily the way it should be, which means we can think about and maybe dream about a better future. | 这不一定是应该的, 这意味着我们可以思考,也许梦想一个更美好的未来。 |
| 1522 | We would like to have if anxiety, parental anxiety is so stressful. | 如果焦虑,父母的焦虑如此紧张,我们想有。 |
| 1523 | Can we find other parents who think that we should do something about it collectively to join together to try to change social norms? | 我们能找到其他父母吗? 他们认为我们应该共同行动起来,共同改变社会规范。 |
| 1524 | I know it sounds easier than than it is to do, but people do change how societies and how futures happen. | 我知道这听起来比它容易做, 但人们确实改变了社会 和如何发生未来。 |
| 1525 | And I think we need to be very active in thinking about how as parents going back to a wonderful comment, less is more. | 我认为我们需要非常积极地思考 当父母回到一个美妙的评论时, 少一点就多一点。 |
| 1526 | This may be a guiding model. | 这可能是一种指导模式。 |
| 1527 | Let's mobilize into trying to make welfare of children and welfare of parents better for the future. | 让我们动员起来,努力使儿童福利和父母福利更好地造福未来. |
| 1528 | And with that, I'd really like to thank Professor Bendell for staying up late in the evening. | 因此,我非常想感谢本戴尔教授在深夜熬夜。 |
| 1529 | Professor Wang and everyone in the audience for spending a Saturday afternoon and Friday evening with us, which hopefully is a beginning to more beautiful, nuanced, scholarly, future ready discussions that we will have. | 王教授和观众们一起度过了星期六下午和星期五晚上,这有望成为我们将要进行的更美丽,细微,学术性,未来准备好的讨论的开始. |
| 1530 | Thank you so very much and good evening and good day to everyone. | 非常感谢大家,晚上好,今天愉快 |
| 1531 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1532 | Thank you again. | 再次感谢你 |
| 1533 | Thank you to everyone for coming. | 谢谢你的光临 |
| 1534 | My greetings from California to Beijing and hopefully meet you in person one day. | 我从加利福尼亚州到北京的问候 希望有一天能亲自见到你 |
| 1535 | Please do. | 请吧 |
| 1536 | Signing off. | 签了 |
| 1537 | We'll be in touch. | 我们再联系 |
| 1538 | Thank you so much to everyone. | 非常感谢大家。 |
| 1539 | Bye bye. | 再见 |
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