CGTN采访耶鲁宗教与生态论坛联合主任Mary Evelyn
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:14 | On today's World Insight, an ecological civilization, what lessons can we draw from millennia of | 在今天的世界洞察力上,一个生态文明,我们可以从千年中吸取什么教训。 |
| 0:21 | history on stopping climate change? | 阻止气候变化的历史? |
| 0:24 | Two seasoned ecologists share their expertise on the delicate balance between humanity and | 两位经验丰富的生态学家分享了他们关于人类与人类之间微妙平衡的专门知识。 |
| 0:29 | nature and what it takes to reach carbon emission targets. | 以及实现碳排放目标所需的条件。 |
| 0:42 | Hello and welcome to World Insight. | 欢迎光临世界透视 |
| 0:44 | I'm Thien Huey. | 我是蒂恩・惠 |
| 0:44 | One of the biggest challenges we're facing today is climate change. | 我们今天面临的最大挑战之一是气候变化。 |
| 0:48 | But come to think about it, it's not just a scientific, economic and policy issue about | 但想一想 这不仅仅是一个科学、经济和政策问题 |
| 0:53 | carbon emissions, the green industry and etc. | 碳排放,绿色工业等. |
| 0:55 | But it poses an ultimate question. | 但它是一个最终的问题。 |
展开字幕全文（405 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | On today's World Insight, an ecological civilization, what lessons can we draw from millennia of | 在今天的世界洞察力上,一个生态文明,我们可以从千年中吸取什么教训。 |
| 2 | history on stopping climate change? | 阻止气候变化的历史? |
| 3 | Two seasoned ecologists share their expertise on the delicate balance between humanity and | 两位经验丰富的生态学家分享了他们关于人类与人类之间微妙平衡的专门知识。 |
| 4 | nature and what it takes to reach carbon emission targets. | 以及实现碳排放目标所需的条件。 |
| 5 | Hello and welcome to World Insight. | 欢迎光临世界透视 |
| 6 | I'm Thien Huey. | 我是蒂恩・惠 |
| 7 | One of the biggest challenges we're facing today is climate change. | 我们今天面临的最大挑战之一是气候变化。 |
| 8 | But come to think about it, it's not just a scientific, economic and policy issue about | 但想一想 这不仅仅是一个科学、经济和政策问题 |
| 9 | carbon emissions, the green industry and etc. | 碳排放,绿色工业等. |
| 10 | But it poses an ultimate question. | 但它是一个最终的问题。 |
| 11 | What is the relationship between humans and nature? | 人与自然的关系是什么? |
| 12 | There are already great answers rooted in history. | 历史中已经有伟大的答案。 |
| 13 | For example, one of the leading philosophers from ancient China, Laozi, said this about | 例如,中国古代主要哲学家之一的老子说 |
| 14 | humans and nature and how much we all need to learn from nature. | 人类和自然,以及我们都需要从自然中汲取多少教训。 |
| 15 | He said, all things flourish and each returns to its source. | 他说,万物兴旺而各归其源. |
| 16 | Or nature does not hurry, yet everything is achieved. | 或自然不急,然而一切成就. |
| 17 | So you see, when China faced with challenges like pollution, biodiversity loss and climate | 所以,当中国面临污染、生物多样性丧失和气候等挑战时 |
| 18 | change, it embraces the idea of ecological civilization, a unique angle to understand | 改变,它包含生态文明的理念, 一个独特的角度来理解 |
| 19 | the related issues and rally the whole country for the right actions. | 并动员全国人民采取正确行动。 |
| 20 | This approach is deeply appreciated by these two widely respected scholars who have been | 这两位受到广泛尊重的学者深为赞赏。 |
| 21 | studying ecology from cultural perspectives. | 从文化角度研究生态学. |
| 22 | Good to see both of you. | 很高兴见到你们两个 |
| 23 | Would you like to introduce yourself? | 你想自我介绍一下吗? |
| 24 | I'm Mary Evelyn Tucker. | 我是玛丽·伊芙琳·塔克 |
| 25 | I was born in New York. | 我出生在纽约 |
| 26 | I teach at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. | 我在康涅狄格州纽黑文的耶鲁大学任教. |
| 27 | And this is my husband for 45 years. | 这是我丈夫45年了 |
| 28 | John? | 约翰? |
| 29 | I'm John Grimm. | 我是约翰・格林 |
| 30 | I was born in North Dakota, which is in the steppes of North America, in the middle of | 我出生在北达科他州, 在北美的草原, 在中间 |
| 31 | North America. | 北美地区. |
| 32 | And it's a very windy place. | 而且这里风景不错 |
| 33 | And the wind blew me out to New York, where I met and fell in love with Mary Evelyn. | 风把我吹到了纽约,在那里我遇见并爱上了玛丽·伊芙琳. |
| 34 | Right. | 对 |
| 35 | You fell in love with one another, but also you fell in love with the approach of studying | 你爱上了对方,但也爱上了学习的方法 |
| 36 | our relationship with nature through philosophy. | 我们通过哲学与自然的关系。 |
| 37 | I come from a hunting family. | 我来自一个狩猎家庭。 |
| 38 | So early on, I had experiences of being with my family and carrying a gun. | 这么早,我曾经和家人在一起,带着枪。 |
| 39 | But I decided not to hunt anymore. | 但我决定不打猎了 |
| 40 | But I continued to walk. | 但我继续走路。 |
| 41 | And so the animals would be driven to the hunters. | 所以动物会被赶去猎人那里 |
| 42 | And everything that was killed or shot went to the table. | 而所有被杀死或被射杀的东西都放在桌子上. |
| 43 | So I learned very early what people in these kinds of hunting and gathering cultures know | 所以我很早就学会了 在这种狩猎和采集文化中 人们知道什么 |
| 44 | about livelihood and making a life and bringing it, sharing nourishment. | 关于生计,创造生活,带来生活,分享营养。 |
| 45 | And both of you have been traveled in China extensively. | 你们俩在中国旅行很广 |
| 46 | What are your takeaways from your traveling in your understanding of the relationship | 在你对关系的理解中 你的旅程有什么收获? |
| 47 | in philosophy and also with nature? | 哲学和自然? |
| 48 | Well, we spent many years doing that kind of travel to, like we've been to all the Buddhist | 嗯,我们花了很多年 做这种旅行, 像我们去过所有的佛教 |
| 49 | caves, Datong and Luoyang and Dazhu and all across the Silk Road early on, just to absorb | 洞穴,大东,洛阳,达须 早期跨越丝绸之路,只是吸收 |
| 50 | that sense of time and space. | 时间和空间感 |
| 51 | So observing and studying over many, many years has given us just a small glimpse into | 多年来的观察和研究 给了我们一点点的启示 |
| 52 | the sophisticated civilization. | 复杂的文明。 |
| 53 | But it's also given us the sense of a possibility that these traditions, Confucianism, Taoism, | 但是这也给了我们一种可能的感觉 这些传统,儒教,道教, |
| 54 | and Buddhism have something to offer not only to ecological civilization in China, but to | 佛教不仅可以给中国的生态文明带来好处,而且可以给 |
| 55 | the world. | 这个世界。 |
| 56 | Our students have understood that very well. | 我们的学生非常了解这一点。 |
| 57 | Years back when we first came to China, I was influenced by a writer, a nature writer. | 早在我们第一次来中国的时候,我受到作家,自然作家的影响. |
| 58 | She is called Annie Dillard. | 她叫安妮・狄拉德 |
| 59 | And she wrote a lovely book called Pilgrim of Dikers Creek. | 她写了一本可爱的书,名为"迪克斯溪的朝圣者". |
| 60 | She visited China and she made a comment which impressed me back then. | 她访华并发表评论, |
| 61 | She said as she moved through some of the areas of China, she felt like she could see | 她说,当她走进中国的一些地区, 她觉得她能看到 |
| 62 | the fingerprints of Chinese people on the soil. | 中国人身上的指纹 |
| 63 | And it struck me so much because I come from an agricultural background also. | 这让我很震惊 因为我也来自农业背景 |
| 64 | And here, again, being in a country with that sense of presence and soil and the good earth, | 在这里,再次, 在一个有这种存在感 土壤和好土的国家, |
| 65 | that whole idea, it resonates with me in terms of traveling through China. | 整个想法, 它与我共鸣 通过中国旅行。 |
| 66 | And it continues to shape my lens of how I see China. | 它继续塑造我对中国的看法。 |
| 67 | Thank you so much. | 非常感谢 |
| 68 | It美'. | |
| 69 | One could tell the excitement of this couple traveling and getting a whole lot more inspired | 这对情侣旅行的兴奋感 更让人兴奋 |
| 70 | on the ground with the personal experiences through their decades-long research about | 在他们长达几十年的关于 |
| 71 | philosophy, civilization, and nature. | 哲学、文明和自然 |
| 72 | And I had a great chat with Evelyn Tucker about it. | 我和伊芙琳·塔克聊了很多 |
| 73 | China has been, over the past four to five decades, developing very fast. | 过去四五十年,中国的发展非常迅速。 |
| 74 | Industrial revolution taking place just within a few decades. | 工业革命就在几十年之内发生. |
| 75 | And you see massive manufacturing. | 你看到大规模制造。 |
| 76 | You see people trying to get as much natural resources as possible in order to support | 人们试图获得尽可能多的自然资源来支撑 |
| 77 | their livelihood. | 他们的生计。 |
| 78 | But you also see rising interest in the traditional culture, including our relationship with nature. | 但你也看到了对传统文化的日益关注,包括我们与自然的关系. |
| 79 | So how do you see this combination of things? | 那么,你如何看待这些东西的组合? |
| 80 | And at the same time, of course, today's world is changing. | 同时,当然,当今世界正在发生变化。 |
| 81 | China is still trying to figure out its compass, shall I say GPS, in its relations with others | 在与他人的关系中,中国仍在试图找出它的指南针,我可以说是GPS |
| 82 | on the way of climate change and ecological civilization. | 气候变化和生态文明之路。 |
| 83 | Yes. | 对 |
| 84 | So I think what you're touching on is materialism in China, materialism in the West, the growth | 所以我觉得你所触及的是中国的唯物主义,西方的唯物主义,增长 |
| 85 | of money and goods and so on. | 钱和货物等等。 |
| 86 | And if that becomes the only goal of the human, it's a problem, because there is, as you've | 如果这成为人类的唯一目标,那就是一个问题,因为有,就像你一样 |
| 87 | just said, this growing interest in nature. | 刚刚说,这种对自然的兴趣越来越大。 |
| 88 | And that's true in the West and in China, because people know something is missing. | 西方和中国都是这样 因为人们知道有东西不见了 |
| 89 | And so there's a tremendous interest, not only in religion and philosophy and nature, | 不仅对宗教 哲学和自然感兴趣 |
| 90 | but in the creative arts and how they bring us into touch with something much deeper. | 但是在创作艺术中, 以及他们如何让我们接触 更深入的东西。 |
| 91 | Otherwise, we're going to have eco-anxiety, climate grief, and the sense of sadness of | 否则,我们将有 生态焦虑,气候悲伤, 和悲伤的感觉 |
| 92 | something that's being lost. | 失去的东西。 |
| 93 | So that's arising everywhere, I think, on our planet. | 我认为,这在地球上随处可见。 |
| 94 | Interestingly, at the same time, we see conversations and debates taking place in politics, in cop | 有趣的是,与此同时,我们看到在政治中,在警察中进行交谈和辩论 |
| 95 | meetings, and also in the discussions on media programs. | • 举行会议,并讨论媒体节目。 |
| 96 | But a lot of this has to do with power competition. | 但其中很多与权力竞争有关. |
| 97 | A lot of this has to do with the factor of fear. | 这很多都与恐惧因素有关. |
| 98 | For example, what if the world is 1.5 degrees or 2 degrees, and people are being informed | 比如说,如果世界是1.5度或2度, 并且人们被告知 |
| 99 | about the so-called consequences? | 关于所谓的后果? |
| 100 | It is a factor of fear that works. | 恐惧是可行的因素。 |
| 101 | So how do you see the factor of aesthetics and culture vis-à-vis the factor of fear | 所以,你如何看待美学和文化因素 相对于恐惧因素 |
| 102 | and power in understanding what do you consider as the most important thing? | 和权力来理解 什么是你认为最重要的事情? |
| 103 | We're motivated in certain ways by fear and worry and terror and the heat in Beijing, | 我们在某些方面受到恐惧 恐惧 恐惧 北京的热浪的刺激 |
| 104 | the heat in Delhi, the heat in the U.S. and so on. | 德里的热量,美国的热量等等。 |
| 105 | So fear is always there echoing. | 所以恐惧总是在呼应。 |
| 106 | But I think the other point is awe, wonder, beauty, complexity. | 但我认为另一点是敬畏、好奇、美丽、复杂。 |
| 107 | What is a flower? | 什么是花吗? |
| 108 | The gardens of China, the cultivation of flowers, the cultivation of tea ceremony and painting | 中国的花园,花卉的种植,茶祭和绘画的种植 |
| 109 | and all of this. | 这一切。 |
| 110 | This has been very ancient and still present. | 这已经很古老了,现在仍然存在。 |
| 111 | People love that which is beautiful, aesthetically, and it will draw us in again to awe and wonder | 人们喜欢美丽,美学, 它会再次吸引我们 敬畏和好奇 |
| 112 | and beauty, not just fear, because that's what will inspire us. | 和美丽,不只是恐惧, 因为这将是激励我们。 |
| 113 | So how is this what you are trying to work on, competing against or co-exist or sometimes | 那么,这是如何 你试图工作, 竞争或共存 或有时 |
| 114 | even complementary with what is going on these days if you read the news, power, fear, competition | 如果你读新闻、权力、恐惧、竞争, |
| 115 | and even rivalry? | 甚至是竞争? |
| 116 | I think in the midst of these very challenging times, I think this is the most challenging | 我认为在这充满挑战的时代里 我认为这是最具有挑战性的 |
| 117 | time in human history, truly. | 人类历史上的时代 |
| 118 | At least when we are alive. | 至少当我们活着的时候 |
| 119 | Yes, when we are alive. | 是的,当我们还活着。 |
| 120 | But especially because of climate change, biodiversity loss, pollution and this sense | 但特别是因为气候变化 生物多样性的丧失 污染和这种感觉 |
| 121 | of competition and wars and so on. | 竞争和战争等等。 |
| 122 | But even in dark, challenging times, I think the creativity of the human is pressed, pressed, | 但是,即使在黑暗,挑战的时代, 我认为人类的创造力是压抑,压抑, |
| 123 | pressed to new doors opening, new possibilities. | 打开新的门, 新的可能。 |
| 124 | One is this recovery of what is it that the trees and the forests, there's books now, | 一是恢复树木和森林 现在有书 |
| 125 | how forests think, the hidden life of trees. | 森林如何思考, 隐藏的树木生活。 |
| 126 | And the poetry of trees. | 及树之诗. |
| 127 | Exactly. | 没错 |
| 128 | We've had, I've done seminars online at Yale, 4,000 people sign up for this because they're | 我们在耶鲁大学办过研讨会 4000人报名参加,因为他们 |
| 129 | so hungry for it. | 这么渴望它。 |
| 130 | So and let me give a very specific example, sort of historically. | 所以,让我举一个非常具体的例子, 某种历史上的例子。 |
| 131 | If you take World War I, my grandfather, historian of Europe at Columbia, they created a whole | 如果你接受第一次世界大战 我祖父 哥伦比亚欧洲历史学家 他们创造了一个整体 |
| 132 | Western civilization class after World War I to say how can we be citizens. | 第一次世界大战结束后的西方文明阶级说,我们怎样才能成为公民. |
| 133 | After World War II, my teachers learned the languages of China and Japan when they came | 二战结束后,我的老师学了中国和日本的语言 |
| 134 | to the Pacific War and they created the best Asian studies programs ever. | 他们创造了有史以来最好的亚洲研究计划 |
| 135 | And out of Vietnam came a sense of world history. | 从越南传出世界历史 |
| 136 | Americans don't understand the world and so world history emerged, very exciting. | 美国人不懂世界 所以世界历史出现了 非常令人兴奋 |
| 137 | And finally, even out of our present crises, there's a sense of called big history, which | 最后,即使在我们目前的危机中, 也有一种叫做大历史的感觉, |
| 138 | is the universe, earth and human. | 是宇宙,地球和人类 |
| 139 | So in a hundred years, out of these moments of destruction, we've also created new understandings. | 所以在一百年后,从这些毁灭的时刻中,我们也创造了新的理解. |
| 140 | What you have just described is more studies into religion slash philosophies. | 你刚才描述的是对宗教刀法哲学的更多研究. |
| 141 | So how is this interact with the studies of science about nature, ecology, climate and | 因此,这与自然、生态、气候和 |
| 142 | biodiversity? | 生物多样性? |
| 143 | This is another interesting relationship. | 这是另一个有趣的关系。 |
| 144 | It is and that's why we tried to put this together with religion and ecology, philosophy | 这就是为什么我们试图把 宗教和生态,哲学结合起来 |
| 145 | and ecology, two different disciplines. | 和生态学 两个不同的学科 |
| 146 | So overcoming the disciplines is one thing, but I also think this is why we made Journey | 所以,克服学科是一回事, 但我也认为这就是为什么我们做了旅行 |
| 147 | of the Universe, this film that's a science-based film. | 这是一部以科学为基础的电影 |
| 148 | It took us 10 years because we consulted with scientists. | 我们花了10年的时间,因为我们咨询了科学家。 |
| 149 | My co-author, Brian Swim, is a scientist. | 我的合著者布莱恩·斯沃是科学家. |
| 150 | And the sense that evolution is a dynamic unfolding process, that ecology within evolution | 进化是一个动态过程 进化中的生态 |
| 151 | is organic and holistic. | 具有有机性和整体性。 |
| 152 | So all of these sciences, we wanted to take into a much more integrative, integral ecology, | 所以所有这些科学, 我们想要进入一个 更加融为一体的生态, |
| 153 | is a term now being used, a much more integral sense, not just reductionist science over | 是一种更综合的感官 不仅仅是贬低主义科学 |
| 154 | there, objectivist knowledge, but something that relates to us, that we participate in | 目标主义知识,但与我们有关的东西, 我们参与 |
| 155 | the unfolding of evolution. | 进化的发展。 |
| 156 | And even as Dui Ming would say, we are co-creators with the universe and Earth. | 即便如杜伊明所说,我们是宇宙和地球的共同创造者。 |
| 157 | That's a new way of thinking. | 这是一种新的思维方式。 |
| 158 | And it's had a great appeal. | 而且它有一个伟大的吸引力。 |
| 159 | It's on public television, it's available streaming on Amazon. | 在公共电视上播放,在亚马逊有流媒体. |
| 160 | People want to feel science that's alive and relevant for them. | 人们想要感觉到科学是活的 和他们相关的。 |
| 161 | And it also creates a great sense of responsibility among human beings. | 它还在人类中产生了一种伟大的责任感。 |
| 162 | So we say, here's cosmology for ecology. | 所以我们说,这里的宇宙学是生态学。 |
| 163 | Here's the universe, the Earth, and all of its complexity, 4.6 billion years. | 这就是宇宙,地球, 及其所有的复杂性,46亿年。 |
| 164 | I mean, how can that not evoke awe and wonder and beauty? | 我的意思是,这怎么能不引起 敬畏和好奇和美丽? |
| 165 | How much do we really understand? | 我们到底了解多少? |
| 166 | How can we make sure it's a well-balanced that we take, not over-explained? | 我们怎样才能保证它是一个我们所接受的,而不是过份解释的平衡呢? |
| 167 | We're the first generation to have the sciences from astronomy and physics, to geology and | 我们是第一代拥有从天文学和物理学到地质学和 |
| 168 | biology, and cellular life. | 生物学和细胞生活 |
| 169 | So we're the first generation to have the sciences that could actually tell a universe | 因此,我们是第一代 拥有科学,可以告诉宇宙 |
| 170 | story. | 故事的情节。 |
| 171 | That's very exciting. | 真令人兴奋 |
| 172 | And so what we like to do is open up mystery, not answers, but things that continue to invite | 所以,我们喜欢做的是打开 神秘,不是答案,而是继续吸引的东西 |
| 173 | us to explore. | 让我们去探索 |
| 174 | I can give an example. | 我可以举个例子。 |
| 175 | The early universe had just the right temperature. | 早期的宇宙只有合适的温度。 |
| 176 | If it was too fast, it would collapse. | 如果它太快,它会崩溃。 |
| 177 | Too slow, it wouldn't emerge. | 太慢了,不会出现 |
| 178 | And in our film, we have an image of a balloon. | 在我们的电影里,我们有一个气球的画面。 |
| 179 | It's too large, too small. | 太阴之大,太阴之小. |
| 180 | As a metaphor. | 为喻. |
| 181 | So each thing in the film has a scientific idea, like expansion, a metaphor, like the | 所以片中的每一件事都有科学的想法 比如扩张 隐喻 |
| 182 | balloon, and then meaning. | 气球,然后意义。 |
| 183 | So we're not saying, we're not, what is this meaning? | 所以,我们不是说,我们不是, 这是什么意思? |
| 184 | We're just inviting people to think about it. | 我们只是邀请人们考虑一下 |
| 185 | And it can change. | 而能变化. |
| 186 | It can make us more open. | 它能让我们更加开放。 |
| 187 | There is an enormous, huge bank of knowledge, philosophy, intellect already existing in | 知识、哲学和智慧 已经存在于 |
| 188 | our culture. | 我们的文化。 |
| 189 | The pure energy to understand what is already existing, it's already mind-boggling for | 纯粹的能量来理解 已经存在的东西, 它已经心智杂乱 |
| 190 | any individual, not to mention that there might be new ways of discovering how can we | 更别说有新的方法 来发现我们如何能够 |
| 191 | understand what we are and how our relationship with nature in a different way. | 了解我们是什么 了解我们与自然的关系 |
| 192 | So there's always a struggling of energy. | 所以总有精力的挣扎. |
| 193 | What is the best approach? | 什么是最佳办法? |
| 194 | If we find a path, and our curiosity leads us, and it keeps growing. | 如果我们找到一条路, 我们的好奇心引导着我们, 它不断增长。 |
| 195 | In my sense, that there were limits to Western religions. | 在我看来,西方宗教是有限度的。 |
| 196 | It was insufficient. | 这是不够的。 |
| 197 | What is God? | 什么是上帝吗? |
| 198 | It's much, much bigger than anything we could ever name. | 这比任何我们能命名的都大得多 |
| 199 | And that's what I found in Asia. | 这就是我在亚洲发现的。 |
| 200 | Something much bigger. | 更大的东西。 |
| 201 | The Tao, for example, we don't have a name or a word. | 陶人,例如,我们没有名字或词. |
| 202 | That's how the Tao Te Ching begins. | 陶德清就是这样开始的 |
| 203 | So it was this dissatisfaction with what was insufficient and trying to find something | 所以,这是不满意的 不足,并试图找到的东西 |
| 204 | greater. | 更强。 |
| 205 | And each of these traditions, I love Buddhism, I love the meditation, I love Taoism, but | 每一个传统,我爱佛教,我爱冥想,我爱道教,但 |
| 206 | I found Confucianism very compelling because it has a philosophy of education and cultivation | 我发现儒学很有说服力 因为它有教育和栽培的哲学 |
| 207 | and even politics. | 甚至是政治 |
| 208 | The whole concentric, I was like, this is very rich, very full. | 整个同心同德,我一直想, 这是非常丰富的,非常丰满。 |
| 209 | It's still not understood in the West. | 西方仍不识. |
| 210 | Buddhism and Taoism are maybe understood a little bit better. | 佛教和道教也许被理解得更好一点. |
| 211 | But it's taking that deep curiosity and going, going, going, trying to learn. | 但是,它需要 深刻的好奇心 和去,去,去,尝试学习。 |
| 212 | Even now, we're in China, we're trying to understand ecological civilization. | 即使现在,我们在中国,我们正在努力理解生态文明. |
| 213 | It's huge. | 这是巨大的。 |
| 214 | It's much bigger than we could ever pronounce. | 这比我们发音要大得多 |
| 215 | That's why the humility, the sense of learning, of listening to people, and trying to make | 这就是为什么谦卑, 学习感, 听人, 并试图制造 |
| 216 | a contribution to a great civilization. | 对伟大的文明的贡献。 |
| 217 | I think China is the most important country in the world, frankly, for the future of the | 我认为中国是世界上最重要的国家 坦率地说,对于未来 |
| 218 | planet. | 行星 地球 行星 |
| 219 | So if we can help midwife something further that will also have implications for the West, | 因此,如果我们能帮助助产士 进一步的东西 将对西方产生影响, |
| 220 | what a joy, what an honor, what a privilege to be. | 多么快乐,多么荣幸,多么荣幸。 |
| 221 | There are realities, it seems, that countries, economies, and common folks you meet on the | 有一些现实,似乎, 国家,经济, 和普通人, |
| 222 | street will need to deal with. | 街道需要处理。 |
| 223 | They might not necessarily be able to read poetry every day. | 他们可能不一定能够每天阅读诗歌. |
| 224 | But there are issues like geopolitics, there are issues like trade conflicts, and there | 但也有地缘政治等问题 也有贸易冲突的问题 |
| 225 | are also issues like the changes going on in the world, such as so-called the North, | 还有诸如世界正在发生的变化之类的问题,例如所谓的北方, |
| 226 | so-called the South, vis-a-vis so-called East, and so-called West. | 所谓南方,相对东方,又所谓西方. |
| 227 | So how do you see when you are doing research all these explosions of discussions taking | 所以,当你在研究这些讨论的爆炸时,你会看到什么? |
| 228 | place are having an influence on your thinking? | 这地方影响你的思想? |
| 229 | And also the other way around, how can they sharpen your mind to understand better about | 反之,他们怎么能让你的头脑更加清醒 |
| 230 | what you exactly are looking for? | 你们到底在找什么? |
| 231 | I try and follow the news, the headlines, and so on. | 我尽量跟随新闻,头条等. |
| 232 | But I also frankly try and block out that which is devastating, war, suffering, children | 但我也坦率地试图阻止 毁灭性的,战争,痛苦,儿童 |
| 233 | dying, things like that. | 临终,类似的事情。 |
| 234 | I have to protect myself in a certain way. | 我必须用某种方式保护自己 |
| 235 | And at the same time I have to be very conscious of these incredible political, geopolitical, | 同时,我必须非常清楚 这些不可思议的政治,地缘政治, |
| 236 | economic clashes and problems. | 经济冲突和问题。 |
| 237 | But let me give an example. | 但让我举一个例子。 |
| 238 | The COP15 in Paris was led by Cristiana Figueres from Costa Rica. | 在巴黎举行的缔约方会议第十五届会议由哥斯达黎加的克里斯蒂安娜·菲格雷斯领导。 |
| 239 | She has Catholic background. | 她有天主教背景. |
| 240 | She was the first to make sure the religions were part of that conference. | 她是第一个确保宗教是会议的一部分的人。 |
| 241 | And she was listening to what the spiritual leaders were saying. | 她在听精神领袖们说的话 |
| 242 | That changed things considerably. | 这改变了很多事情。 |
| 243 | Now in the last conference in Dubai, there was a faith pavilion for religions. | 现在,在迪拜举行的上次会议上,有一个宗教展厅。 |
| 244 | So you see that movement has been very important. | 所以,你看这个运动是非常重要的。 |
| 245 | At the same time the COP conference, Pope Francis wrote an encyclical letter called | 同时,COP大会上,教宗方济各写了一封通函,称 |
| 246 | Laudato Si. | 劳达托西. |
| 247 | He brought his speech also to the UN. | 他还把演讲带到联合国。 |
| 248 | The SDGs were announced that same year after his speech. | SDG在同年他发表演说后宣布. |
| 249 | But Laudato Si says, there's cry of the earth, cry of the poor. | 然劳达托思说,有天下之哭,贫人之哭. |
| 250 | And he's holding these up together. | 他把这些东西放在一起 |
| 251 | Those who are suffering, both the earth and the poor, is powerful. | 受苦者,天下贫贱皆有威力. |
| 252 | It's eco-justice. | 这是生态正义。 |
| 253 | And it has had an enormous effect. | 它产生了巨大的影响。 |
| 254 | He launched that in March, December was the conference. | 他在3月,12月发起这次会议。 |
| 255 | Many people feel that's why we got an agreement. | 很多人觉得这就是我们达成协议的原因 |
| 256 | When the world is facing different kinds of challenges, including geopolitics, | 当世界面临不同种类的挑战时,包括地缘政治, |
| 257 | wars, conflicts, trade, and the picture of power begin to shift, | 战争,冲突,贸易, 和权力的画面开始转变, |
| 258 | one could argue more to the developing countries. | 人们可以对发展中国家提出更多的意见。 |
| 259 | They're becoming ever more powerful and capable. | 他们越来越强大和有能力。 |
| 260 | The developed economy begin to talk about the so-called climate justice. | 发达经济开始谈论所谓的气候正义. |
| 261 | And sometimes what it meant is, sorry, I cannot deliver what I promised. | 有时它的意思是,对不起, 我不能兑现我的承诺。 |
| 262 | Because circumstances arise now that I didn't know then. | 因为当时我还不知道情况 |
| 263 | For example, people might lose job from the fossil fuel industries. | 例如,人们可能因为化石燃料工业而失业。 |
| 264 | I cannot afford that. | 我负担不起 |
| 265 | For example, there's a war in my neighborhood. | 譬如我邻里有战. |
| 266 | And therefore, I have to use fossil fuels more. | 因此,我必须更多地使用化石燃料。 |
| 267 | Or I cannot commit to the earlier promises I made about providing funding | 或者我无法兑现我之前承诺的提供资金 |
| 268 | to developing countries, which is fruitful for the latter | 给发展中国家带来成果 |
| 269 | to incorporate new technologies in order to deal with climate change. | 纳入新技术,以便应对气候变化。 |
| 270 | And the list goes on. | 名单还继续 |
| 271 | So there is a very much skepticism, one could say, these days. | 可以说,这些天,人们非常怀疑。 |
| 272 | And the electronic vehicle discussion is only adding oil to the fire. | 而电子车辆的讨论只是给火上浇油. |
| 273 | When you have China, rising economy, having more manufacturing power, | 当你拥有中国,经济不断上升, 拥有更多的制造力量, |
| 274 | and becoming the birthplace of many electronic vehicles, | 成为许多电子车辆的诞生地, |
| 275 | now there is trade protectionism, having 100% tariffs | 现在有贸易保护主义,关税100% |
| 276 | against the Chinese EV exports, despite WTO rules. | 不顾世贸组织的规则,反对中国的EV出口。 |
| 277 | So this makes a lot of people think whether these are just fake concepts | 这使得很多人认为这些是否只是假概念 |
| 278 | that the quote unquote West want to sell to the rest of the world, | 引文未引用的West想卖给世界其他地方, |
| 279 | or actually would really mean what we have been discussing. | 或实际上意味着什么 我们一直在讨论。 |
| 280 | Frankly, we know that the US has been talked down at COP. | 坦率地说,我们知道,美国已经在缔约方会议上被说服了。 |
| 281 | In Bali, the representative from the US was told to sit down. | 在巴厘,美国的代表被告知坐下。 |
| 282 | So we have not been faithful partners. | 所以我们不是忠实的伙伴。 |
| 283 | We have not been cooperative in many of these dialogues. | 我们在许多对话中没有给予合作。 |
| 284 | I think that's number one. | 我想这是第一。 |
| 285 | Secondly, the tariffs on EVs or solar is crazy. | 其次,对EV或太阳能的关税是疯狂的. |
| 286 | You know, it's not fair. | 你知道,这不公平。 |
| 287 | It's not right. | 这不对 |
| 288 | So our foreign policy has a problem in terms of cooperation for genuine change. | 因此,我国外交政策在合作实现真正变革方面有问题。 |
| 289 | Our economic policy is only for self-interest and so on. | 我们的经济政策只为自身利益等. |
| 290 | These are real problems, which is why the US has lost a lot of respect | 这些都是真正的问题, 这就是为什么美国失去了很多的尊重 |
| 291 | in the world, honestly, because what you're saying, I think, is very true. | 老实说,在世界上, 因为你所说的,我认为是非常真实的。 |
| 292 | What are the promises? | 承诺是什么? |
| 293 | What are the possibilities? | 有什么可能吗? |
| 294 | What's the reality? | 现实是什么? |
| 295 | Now, the only thing I would say maybe we can further dialogue on | 现在,我唯一想说的是 也许我们可以进一步的对话 关于 |
| 296 | is climate justice, because there might be some misunderstanding | 是气候正义, 因为可能有一些误解 |
| 297 | that I'm hearing in what you said. | 我听到你说的话 |
| 298 | But for people who are sincere about these issues, | 但对于对这些问题有诚意的人来说, |
| 299 | climate justice is essential. | 气候正义至关重要。 |
| 300 | We have over 90 million refugees, many, many more coming into Europe, | 我们有超过9000万的难民, 许多人,更多的人来到欧洲, |
| 301 | coming into the US, climate refugees. | 进入美国,气候难民。 |
| 302 | That's an issue of justice. | 这是正义的问题。 |
| 303 | And we can say even in our own country, those who have been most ill affected | 我们甚至可以说,在我们自己的国家, 那些受感染最严重的人 |
| 304 | by climate are black people and Native Americans and so on and so forth. | 在气候下,是黑人和美洲原住民等等。 |
| 305 | And the pollution issues. | 和污染问题。 |
| 306 | So I think when we use this in a sincere way, | 所以,我想,当我们以真诚的方式使用这个, |
| 307 | that's what the pope is trying to do, too, to say the poor are suffering. | 教皇也想这么做 说穷人在受苦 |
| 308 | Then we can begin to re-establish alliances with North-South alliances. | 然后,我们可以开始与南北联盟重新建立联盟。 |
| 309 | For example, Latin America, many indigenous people | 例如,拉丁美洲,许多土著人民 |
| 310 | are suffering for trying to protect the Amazon, and people are being killed. | 因为试图保护亚马逊而受苦受难 人们正在被杀害 |
| 311 | And liberation theology is trying to uphold justice. | 而解放神学正试图维护正义. |
| 312 | And that has been very important in North America, too, liberation theology. | 这在北美也是非常重要的,解放神学。 |
| 313 | So we have to find the angles for alliances beyond the rhetoric | 所以,我们必须找到 同盟的角度 超越夸夸其谈 |
| 314 | and beyond the very inadequate foreign policy. | 并且超越了非常不充分的外交政策。 |
| 315 | How to make sure people are not wrongfully exploiting | 如何确保人们不被不正当的剥削 |
| 316 | some of the most important concepts, such as climate justice. | 一些最重要的概念,例如气候正义. |
| 317 | Let me throw in an example. | 让我举个例子。 |
| 318 | I had a conversation recently with a Chinese environmentalist | 我最近和一位中国环保人士谈过 |
| 319 | talking about this issue. | 谈论这个问题。 |
| 320 | She was referring to what people in Shanxi province experience. | 她指的是山西省人们的经历. |
| 321 | As you may know, Shanxi is a province well known for its fossil fuel reserve. | 如你所知,山西省是一个以化石燃料储量闻名的省份. |
| 322 | Many of China's coal coming from there. | 许多中国的煤炭是从那里运来的. |
| 323 | But more than a decade ago, as a result of a global discussion | 但十多年前 经过全球讨论 |
| 324 | and also future plan of China's economy, | 以及中国未来的经济计划, |
| 325 | many people lost their job in the fossil fuel industry. | 许多人失去了在矿物燃料工业的工作。 |
| 326 | And they bite the bitter, as the Chinese say. | 就像中国人说的 他们咬了苦头 |
| 327 | They eat the bitter. | 他们吃苦。 |
| 328 | And they changed their job. | 他们换了工作 |
| 329 | Some of them did not have a job immediately. | 其中一些人没有立即找到工作。 |
| 330 | So they actually went through a very difficult period of time, | 所以他们实际上经历了一个非常困难的时期, |
| 331 | that province as a whole, not to mention the common folks, | 整个省, 更不用提普通人, |
| 332 | in order to get by. | 以获得. |
| 333 | And now they have found a new direction, tourism, | 现在他们找到了一个新的方向,旅游, |
| 334 | because that's also a place rich in culture for different dynasties. | 因为这也是一个文化丰富的地方 对于不同的王朝。 |
| 335 | So they have changed their way of style, of economy, | 所以他们改变了他们的风格, 经济, |
| 336 | and also of making a living. | 还有谋生 |
| 337 | But at the time, when they were making the change, | 但当时,当他们正在改变, |
| 338 | it was extremely difficult. | 这是极其困难的。 |
| 339 | So here is the thing. | 事情是这样的 |
| 340 | When climate justice was actually the issue, | 当气候正义实际上是一个问题, |
| 341 | the global South might not have the linguistic power to embrace it | 全球南方可能没有语言能力来拥抱它 |
| 342 | and make it an issue. | 并把它作为一个问题。 |
| 343 | And yet now, when they already, quote unquote, | 然而现在,当他们已经, 引用未引用, |
| 344 | ate the bitter and make the change, | 吃苦,做改变, |
| 345 | they noticed that the other side were trying | 他们注意到对方正在尝试 |
| 346 | to take advantage of that rhetoric | 利用这些言论 |
| 347 | to their advantage of not making any move for responsibilities. | 有利于他们不采取任何责任行动。 |
| 348 | So that is the thing that we are talking about here. | 这就是我们在这里谈论的问题。 |
| 349 | Environmental justice. | 环境正义. |
| 350 | We have a center at our school for this. | 我们学校有一个中心 |
| 351 | And my whole background is social justice and so on. | 我的整个背景是社会正义等等。 |
| 352 | So I hear it from that ear that it's much more sincere. | 所以我从耳朵里听到,它更真诚。 |
| 353 | But I also hear the distortions that you are speaking of. | 但我也听到你所说的扭曲。 |
| 354 | And is it Datong that you're speaking of, too? | 你也在说大通吗? |
| 355 | For example, it's one of those cities. | 例如,它是那些城市之一。 |
| 356 | And there's a huge exhibit in New York right now | 现在在纽约有个大展览 |
| 357 | at the Asia Society called Coal and Oil. | 在亚洲社会被称为煤和石油。 |
| 358 | It is fantastic because it shows pictures of the miners | 这太棒了,因为它显示矿工的照片 |
| 359 | from China and so on. | 从中国等. |
| 360 | Or Wilchel did this exhibit. | 或者威尔切尔做了这个展览。 |
| 361 | It's very gripping. | 它很紧凑。 |
| 362 | And so I hope with exhibits like that, | 所以我希望有这样的展品, |
| 363 | people in the West will have more empathy | 西方的人会有更多的同情 |
| 364 | with what that transition involves. | 与这种转变有关。 |
| 365 | How would you be able to make sure people can still think | 你怎能确保人们仍然认为 |
| 366 | with aesthetics, with philosophy, with justice? | 审美,哲学,正义? |
| 367 | Some of these words are already becoming too precious | 其中一些话已经变得太珍贵了 |
| 368 | these days in daily conversations. | 这几天的日常谈话 |
| 369 | If we are giving over only to competition, | 如果我们只给竞争, |
| 370 | only to elbowing everyone out, | 只为了把大家挤出来 |
| 371 | if compassion disappears, | 如果同情心消失, |
| 372 | if empathy and sympathy are just marginalized, | 如果同情和同情只是被边缘化, |
| 373 | we become animals. | 我们变成动物。 |
| 374 | We are human animals, but we lose our humaneness. | 我们是人类动物,但我们失去了人道。 |
| 375 | And this is not something we can sustain. | 这并不是我们所能维持的。 |
| 376 | If we look at history, look at the Confucians struggling | 如果我们看历史,看儒家在挣扎 |
| 377 | with emperors who were authoritarian | 和独裁的皇帝们 |
| 378 | and having to retreat so they wouldn't be killed. | 并不得不撤退 这样他们就不会被杀。 |
| 379 | This history in the West too, of kings and authority | 西方的国王和权威的历史 |
| 380 | and so on, has been very ancient. | 诸如此类, 已经非常古老。 |
| 381 | And even the idea of democracy is very new, | 甚至民主思想也非常新颖 |
| 382 | very imperfect, especially in our country. | 非常不完美,特别是在我国。 |
| 383 | So this competitive spirit, perhaps we can say | 所以这种竞争精神,也许我们可以说 |
| 384 | there's a yin yang and things are mingling | 阴阳交错 |
| 385 | so that this problematique is also offering promise | 这样,这个问题也带来了承诺 |
| 386 | and possibility. | 还有可能性 |
| 387 | It's not either or, it's a yin yang together, I think. | 要么不是,要么是阴阳在一起,我想。 |
| 388 | A wonderful discussion. | 精彩的讨论 |
| 389 | Thank you so much for your intellect | 非常感谢你的智慧 |
| 390 | and also for your input. | 还有你的意见 |
| 391 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 392 | And that's all the time we have for today. | 我们今天只有这么多时间了 |
| 393 | As you can see, I'm standing right here | 如你所见,我站在这里 |
| 394 | in the middle of the venue of the annual meetings | 年度会议地点中间 |
| 395 | of the new champions to be held in Dalian. | 即将在大连举行的新冠军赛 |
| 396 | For the next three days, participants from all | 今后三天,来自各方的与会者 |
| 397 | of the world are to focus on updates | 世界将专注于更新 |
| 398 | of the latest global changes and try to build | 并努力构建 |
| 399 | stronger partnerships despite challenges. | 尽管存在挑战,但加强了伙伴关系。 |
| 400 | Climate, nature, ecology are among the topics | 气候、自然、生态等议题 |
| 401 | to be discussed. | 将讨论。 |
| 402 | We are going to bring you update on our daily interviews | 我们会给你介绍我们每日采访的最新情况 |
| 403 | and roundup of the forum. | 并围观论坛。 |
| 404 | I'm Tian Wei on behalf of my teams in Dalian and Beijing. | 我是天伟 我代表我的球队 在大连和北京。 |
| 405 | Thanks for being with us and I'll see you tomorrow. | 谢谢你和我们在一起 明天见 |
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