互联网时代，小心成为“物质文盲”！耶鲁教授用一本颠覆艺术史的

互联网时代，小心成为“物质文盲”！耶鲁教授用一本颠覆艺术史的新作和你聊聊如何“识物”

发布于 2023-05-31 · 时长 1:13:41

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:05	Good day, everyone.	大家好,再见
0:06	And especially to our distinguished speakers, Professor Ned Cook from Yale University,	特别是我们尊敬的演讲者耶鲁大学的奈德·库克教授
0:13	as well as Professor Vimalin Rajivacharkul of the University of Delaware.	以及特拉华大学的维马林·拉吉瓦查库尔教授.
0:20	She also has a Chinese name Xu Guan'er.	她也有中文名徐关尔.
0:24	Welcome, everyone, to the Zoom webinar on Global Objects and the Need for Material Literacy,	欢迎各位收看《全球物体的放大器》和《素养的需要》
0:31	co-hosted by Princeton University Press, China Office, and the Yale Center Beijing.	由普林斯顿大学出版社,中国办事处,耶鲁中心北京联合主办.
0:38	I'm Carolee Rafferty, Executive Director of Yale Center Beijing and a Yale College alumna.	我是Carolee Rafferty,耶鲁北京中心执行董事和耶鲁大学的校友。
0:44	For those of you who may be new to Yale Center Beijing events, the center is Yale University's	对于你们中那些刚来耶鲁中心的人来说北京活动中心是耶鲁大学的
0:51	only university-wide center outside of the U.S.	只有美国以外的全大学中心
0:55	Throughout the year, we host events such as these, whether over Zoom or in person,	全年,我们主办诸如此类的活动, 无论是超度还是亲自,

展开字幕全文（993 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Good day, everyone.	大家好,再见
2	And especially to our distinguished speakers, Professor Ned Cook from Yale University,	特别是我们尊敬的演讲者耶鲁大学的奈德·库克教授
3	as well as Professor Vimalin Rajivacharkul of the University of Delaware.	以及特拉华大学的维马林·拉吉瓦查库尔教授.
4	She also has a Chinese name Xu Guan'er.	她也有中文名徐关尔.
5	Welcome, everyone, to the Zoom webinar on Global Objects and the Need for Material Literacy,	欢迎各位收看《全球物体的放大器》和《素养的需要》
6	co-hosted by Princeton University Press, China Office, and the Yale Center Beijing.	由普林斯顿大学出版社,中国办事处,耶鲁中心北京联合主办.
7	I'm Carolee Rafferty, Executive Director of Yale Center Beijing and a Yale College alumna.	我是Carolee Rafferty,耶鲁北京中心执行董事和耶鲁大学的校友。
8	For those of you who may be new to Yale Center Beijing events, the center is Yale University's	对于你们中那些刚来耶鲁中心的人来说北京活动中心是耶鲁大学的
9	only university-wide center outside of the U.S.	只有美国以外的全大学中心
10	Throughout the year, we host events such as these, whether over Zoom or in person,	全年,我们主办诸如此类的活动, 无论是超度还是亲自,
11	where we convene thought leaders from all sectors to discuss the most interesting, cutting edge,	我们召集各部门的思想领袖讨论最有趣的尖端
12	and critical topics facing humanity.	人类面临的重要议题。
13	Today, we're delighted to be able to invite Yale Professor Edward Cook to give a presentation	今天,我们很高兴能邀请耶鲁教授 Edward Cook做演讲
14	about his book, new book, Global Objects Toward a Connected Art History,	关于他的书,新书,"全球物体走向连接的艺术史,
15	which is published by the Princeton University Press.	由普林斯顿大学出版社出版。
16	We're also delighted to have Professor Vimalin Rajivacharkul from the University of Delaware	我们也很高兴有特拉华大学的维马林·拉吉瓦查库尔教授
17	to have a discussion with him on this topic.	与他讨论这个问题。
18	And we're so grateful to both of you for your time and preparation.	我们非常感激你们两位的时间和准备。
19	We're very glad to be collaborating with the Princeton University Press,	我们很高兴和普林斯顿大学出版社合作
20	China Office to co-host this important webinar for the Chinese audience.	中信办为中国观众共同主持这次重要的网吧.
21	The Princeton University Press is one of the world's leading academic publishers,	普林斯顿大学出版社是世界领先的学术出版社之一,
22	which brings scholarly ideas to the world by publishing peer-reviewed books that connect	通过出版同行评审的书籍,将学术思想带给世界
23	authors and readers across spheres of knowledge to advance and enrich the global conversation.	作者和读者跨越知识领域,推动和丰富全球对话。
24	And the Princeton University Press, China Office, with whom Yale Center Beijing has worked closely	和普林斯顿大学出版社,中国办事处,耶鲁中心北京公司密切合作
25	to prepare for this event, is committed to fostering cross-cultural exchanges and further	致力于促进跨文化交流和进一步开展文化交流,并致力于为这一活动做好准备。
26	advancing the international dialogues of scholars.	推动学者的国际对话。
27	So throughout the talk, we'll see Professor Cook's presentation.	因此在整个谈话中,我们会看到库克教授的介绍.
28	He'll have some slides.	他会有一些幻灯片。
29	And Professor Vimalin Rajivacharkul will also be kind of engaging in a discussion	维马林·拉吉瓦查库尔教授也将参与讨论
30	on this topic.	关于这一主题。
31	Now, let me introduce our two distinguished speakers.	现在,请允许我介绍我们两位尊敬的发言者。
32	Professor Ned Cook is a Yale College alumnus and the Charles F. Montgomery Professor of	奈德·库克教授是耶鲁大学的校友查尔斯·蒙哥马利教授
33	American Decorative Arts in the Department of History of Art at Yale University.	耶鲁大学艺术史系的美国装饰艺术.
34	His work focuses upon material culture and decorative arts with an emphasis on the	他的工作重点是物质文化和装饰艺术,重点是:
35	relationship between production and consumption.	生产与消费之间的关系。
36	At Yale, Professor Cook teaches lecture courses on American material culture,	在耶鲁大学,库克教授教授讲授关于美国物质文化的课程,
37	an introductory course on global decorative arts, and offers seminars on a variety of topics,	开设全球装饰艺术入门课程,并举办各种专题研讨会;
38	including craft and design in India and in Australia.	包括印度和澳大利亚的工艺和设计。
39	He has written extensively on modern craft as an author, a founding co-editor of the	他作为作家、创始人兼编辑,广泛撰写现代工艺著作。
40	Journal of Modern Craft, guest editor of a special issue of American art focusing on craft,	《现代工艺学报》,美国艺术专刊的特刊编辑
41	as well as his work as co-curator and publication author of multiple exhibitions,	以及他作为多个展览的协办者和出版者所做的工作,
42	including Inspired by China, Contemporary Furniture Makers Explore Chinese Traditions	包括受中国启发,当代家具制造商探索中国传统
43	at the Peabody Essex Museum in 2006.	2006年在皮博迪·埃塞克斯博物馆举行.
44	He's the author of several books on material culture and decorative arts,	他是几本关于物质文化和装饰艺术的著作的作者,
45	including the book of today's talk, Global Objects Toward a Connected Art History,	包括今天演讲的书《走向连结艺术史的全球目标》
46	published by the Princeton University Press.	普林斯顿大学出版社出版。
47	In this groundbreaking book, Professor Cook breaks down traditional hierarchies in the	在这部开创性的著作中,库克教授打破了传统的等级制度。
48	field of art history by bridging the divide between fine art, paintings, architecture,	通过弥合美术、绘画、建筑之间的鸿沟,
49	and sculpture, and material culture through an examination of these more functional objects	通过对这些功能性较强的物体的检查,
50	around the world.	环绕世界.
51	In doing so, he's charting exciting new directions in art history by presenting a more inclusive	他以此为艺术史绘制了令人振奋的新方向通过呈现一个更具包容性
52	and expansive perspective on made objects and their uses, meaning and cultural value	及其用途、意义和文化价值
53	through time.	穿越时间
54	Professor Cook's work in expanding the field of decorative arts has led to many awards,	库克教授在扩大装饰艺术领域的工作导致许多奖项,
55	including election as an honorary fellow of the American Craft Council and College Arts	包括当选美国工艺委员会和学院艺术荣誉研究员
56	Association Distinguished Teacher of Art History Award.	艺术史杰出教师协会奖.
57	We're very grateful for his generosity in making time for this talk for the Chinese	我们非常感谢他慷慨地为中国人安排了这次谈话
58	audience.	观众。
59	Vimalin Rujavacharkul教授在大学教授艺术和建筑史
60	of Delaware.	特拉华州
61	She also concurrently holds the 2021 to 2024 Visiting Professorship at the School of	她还同时担任2021年到2024年法国大学的客座教授职务。
62	Architecture at Tsinghua University and is a lifetime fellow of Clare Hall at Cambridge	清华大学建筑系,是剑桥市克莱尔堂的终身同学.
63	University.	大学.
64	She researches and publishes on architectural history and historiography, material culture,	她研究并出版关于建筑历史和历史学,材料文化,
65	and object studies, history of cartography, and history of global collecting.	和对象研究、制图史以及全球收集史。
66	她的著作中包括"建筑化亚洲"(Architecturalized Asia),它是经选择选择成为"建筑化亚洲"(Asian).
67	outstanding book in 2014, Liang Sicheng, and The Temple of Buddha's Light, which was	2014年的杰出著作,梁思诚,和佛光寺,当时是
68	included in the China Classic series by China's Ministry of Education, and Collecting	由中国教育部列入中国经典丛书,并收藏
69	China, the World, China, and a Short History of Collecting, which became the ground for	中国,世界,中国,以及一部短篇的收集史,成为了
70	the 2017 workshop that she co-directed at the Winter Thur Museum for the National Museum	她为国家博物馆在温特瑟博物馆共同执导的2017年研讨会
71	of Asian Arts Chinese Object Study.	亚洲艺术中国对象研究.
72	At Tsinghua University, she works with colleagues in the history of architecture with	在清华大学,她与建筑史上的同事合作
73	on preserving village and vernacular architecture in China.	保护中国乡村和方言建筑。
74	We're also very, very delighted to have her to be in conversation with Professor Ned Cook	很高兴她能和奈德·库克教授谈话
75	today.	今时.
76	Now, throughout this webinar, please feel free to type your questions in the Zoom chat	现在,在整个网络中,请随意在缩放聊天中输入您的问题
77	box.	页:1
78	And the first person to pose a question to our speakers, who's not a Yale Center Beijing	第一个向我们的演讲者提问的人他不是耶鲁中心北京
79	staff member and not a Princeton University Press staff member, will get a complimentary	工作人员,而不是普林斯顿大学出版社的工作人员,将获得一个辅助人员
80	copy of Professor Cook's new book, thanks to the Princeton University Press' generosity.	由于普林斯顿大学出版社的慷慨,库克教授的新书的复制本.
81	I'd also like to encourage all of you to purchase a copy of Global Objects towards an	我还想鼓励你们所有人购买一份全球物体的复制品
82	interconnected art history, as the professors who joined these Yale Center Beijing lectures	作为参加耶鲁中心北京讲座的教授
83	do so out of their kindness and generosity to the Yale community.	这样做是出于他们对耶鲁社区的善意和慷慨。
84	And it is very important that we support their work and encourage them to continue	我们必须支持他们的工作并鼓励他们继续
85	engaging with the Yale community in China.	与中国的耶鲁社区合作。
86	So without further ado, let's welcome Professor Ned Cook.	所以不用多说了,欢迎奈德·库克教授
87	And Ned, please queue up your share your screen so we can get it going.	奈德,请排队分享你的屏幕这样我们就可以让它去。
88	Thank you.	谢谢
89	All right.	好吧,我们走。
90	Carol, is that on now?	卡罗尔,是现在吗?
91	Yes, it's on.	是的,开始了。
92	Well, thanks to Carol and Devin for organizing this, as well as for Vimalan willing to be a	感谢卡罗尔和德文组织这次活动还有维玛兰愿意成为
93	partner early in the morning here on the eastern seaboard of the US.	早上在东岸的美国
94	And it's a real delight to be able to speak to a broader international audience about this	能跟广大国际观众谈论这件事真是令人高兴
95	kind of project, because it really does get at the heart of the way we are connected as	某种项目,因为它确实得到的核心我们连接的方式
96	human beings.	人类
97	For many of us, the accepted notion of art is one that privileges a certain kind of	对我们许多人来说,公认的艺术概念是特权于某种
98	creative activity and creative product.	创造性活动和创造性产品。
99	We tend to think about monumental public architecture.	我们倾向于考虑具有重大意义的公共建筑。
100	We tend to think about framed paintings.	我们往往会考虑绘画
101	And what we do is we honor them in some respects because they have a certain fixity.	我们所做的就是在某些方面尊重他们, 因为他们有某种固定性。
102	They're fixed in place.	他们已经固定好了
103	They're usually stable.	它们通常稳定.
104	Yes, there's some variations in architecture.	是的,建筑上有些变化。
105	Paintings get reframed or might be cleaned.	涂料被重新刻画或可能被清洗.
106	But they oftentimes are very well documented.	但是,它们常常有很好的记录。
107	They've existed in some sort of a public dimension for quite some time.	它们在某种公共层面存在了相当长一段时间。
108	And I just want to use this portrait by Arthur Devis, painted of Mr. and Mrs. Hill, upper	我只想用Arthur Devis的肖像画上面是希尔夫妇的画
109	middle-class British couple, hanging in the Yale Center for British Art currently, but certainly	中产阶级英国夫妇, 挂在耶鲁大学英国艺术中心目前,但当然
110	earlier was in the Hills and their descendants' homes.	之前在山上和他们的后代家
111	And I think that it sort of represents so well the way in which we really focus in on what are	我觉得它代表了我们真正关注
112	known, quote, works of art.	已知,引文,艺术品。
113	That it is something that is an obvious medium that we're comfortable elevating to that status.	这是一种显而易见的媒介,我们自在地提升到这种地位。
114	It's oil painting on canvas.	画布上的油画
115	It indicates sort of a certain degree of self-fashioning by the couple who are really	这表明夫妇们在某种程度上的自我时尚
116	presenting themselves to people who came and visited the house, oftentimes an exclusive	向前来拜访房子的人展示自己经常是独家
117	audience.	观众。
118	But it's a way in which they are presenting themselves to that limited world.	但这是他们向有限世界展示自己的方式。
119	It's commemorative in that it really celebrates who they are for either their friends or	这是纪念因为它真的庆祝他们是谁他们的朋友或
120	subsequent generations.	之后几代人。
121	And there's a known artist.	还有一位知名艺术家.
122	The artist signs it.	艺人签名.
123	So all these things that sort of really start to create to the value of this kind of work of art	所以所有这些东西真正开始创造这种艺术作品的价值
124	over time.	随着时间的推移。
125	And yet in the background, sitting on top of a mahogany table, the couple are obscuring	而在背景中,坐在一个毛糯米的桌子上, 夫妇们在迷惑
126	mahogany chairs, there's a tea service.	毛腿椅,有茶服务。
127	And sort of thinking about a teapot as a minor kind of player pushed to the background.	某种程度上认为一个茶壶是一个小种类的玩家推向背景。
128	And using kind of the theatrical metaphor of someone like Irving Goffman in the presentation	并用戏剧的比喻某人像欧文・戈夫曼在演讲中
129	of Everyday Life, it's merely a prop that the real focus is on the actors, the couple,	在日常生活中,它只是一个道具真正的焦点是演员,夫妇,
130	and the stage set, which is the interior of their home.	和舞台,即他们家的内部。
131	Props exist really sort of only in a very supplementary way that are not really key	道具真的存在那种只有非常补充的方式而不是真正关键
132	players in the value of this particular object.	此特定对象值中的玩家。
133	They are merely affirming.	他们只是申明。
134	But what I'm intrigued with is flipping the script.	但我感兴趣的是翻转剧本
135	What happens if we make the painting, the one that we value now, in service of	如果我们把画做成我们现在珍视的一幅
136	larger object?	更大的物体吗?
137	All of a sudden making that teapot larger in scale to dominate this kind of value system.	突然使茶壶规模变大来支配这种价值体系
138	And to think about what about a skillfully made functional object?	想想一个巧妙的功能性物体怎么样?
139	And it's not quite as stable as the painting might be.	画可能不够稳定
140	Because objects tend to be messy.	因为物体往往很乱
141	They draw from ideas and materials from throughout the world.	它们来自世界各地的思想和材料。
142	They move.	他们移动。
143	They don't hang on the wall and stay there.	他们不挂在墙上并停留在那里。
144	They get used in different ways.	他们被不同的方式使用。
145	They might get repurposed.	他们可能会被重新使用。
146	Something like a teapot could be used as a padboat for somebody elderly or infirm	像茶壶一样的东西可以用来做老人或病人的垫船
147	who needs to have basically an adult Tommy tippy cup to be able to drink fluids from.	他们需要一个成人汤米尖杯才能喝液体。
148	It could get worn out.	可能会磨损的
149	It might actually become pieces, sherds, rather than actually a whole object.	它可能会变成碎片, 壳,而不是整个物体。
150	And it's not simply to think about this object as functional or aesthetic alone.	而将这个物体仅仅视为功能性或美学,并不是简单的考虑.
151	It's not even innocent.	这甚至不是无辜的。
152	It actually has a very complicated history of engagement, of entanglement with the world.	它实际上有着非常复杂的接触历史, 与世界的纠缠。
153	If we were to think of this teapot, it really represents the conflation of lots	如果我们想到这个茶壶, 它真的代表了众多的混杂
154	of different ideas, materials, and value systems.	不同的思想、材料和价值体系。
155	It's based on smaller Chinese stoneware vessels.	以较小的中国石器皿为主.
156	But it's elevated in typical fashion to a venti size.	但它以典型的方式提升到通风大小.
157	To think about a Starbucks metaphor here.	想想星巴克的隐喻
158	It's supersized kind of consumption of tea, which is also at this point in time	这是超大种类的茶, 也是在这个时候
159	in the 17th and 18th century, a Chinese product.	在17和18世纪,是中国的产品.
160	So you have a form that's based on China for a material that's Chinese in origin.	所以,你有一个基于中国的形式对于一个材料的中文起源。
161	But yet it's mixed with sugar, which is grown in the Caribbean with enslaved labor on plantations.	但是它却与糖混合,糖在加勒比地区种植,在种植园有奴役劳工.
162	So that the sugar gets mixed in with the tea itself and becomes a much more charged kind of object.	使糖与茶叶本身混合,成为更充电的物体。
163	Then there's the body that is the material itself.	然后是身体就是物质本身
164	Unlike using purplish stoneware in China or even porcelain later on, it's refined earthenware.	与中国使用纯净石器件甚至后来的瓷器不同,它是精制土器件.
165	It's something that Josiah Wedgwood in Staffordshire really developed of mixing	这是乔西亚韦奇伍德在斯塔福德郡真正发展出来的混合
166	lighter colored clays, making them much purer in some respects.	颜色较浅的粘土,在某些方面使其更加纯洁.
167	Then mixing in a white clay called kaolin, which actually was brought in from Cherokee	然后混合在白色粘土中叫做Kaolin 这其实是从切罗基带来的
168	country in North Carolina, where it was really called Unicar.	北卡罗来纳州, 在那里它被真正叫做Unicar。
169	Wedgwood has this exclusive contract to extract white clay from the Cherokee country to bring	Wedgwood有这个独家合同从切罗基国家提取白粘土
170	to England to mix in with his local earthenwares to create this refined earthenware that simulates	去英国和他本地的土器皿混合来制造这个精细的土器皿模拟
171	the look of porcelain.	瓷器的外观。
172	In that pursuit of whiteness, he's again sort of looking throughout the world	在追求白色时,他又在寻找全世界
173	to bring together materials.	将材料汇集在一起。
174	Then on top of that, you have the decoration of this, which is not hand painted,	最重要的是,你有装饰这个不是手画的,
175	but it's actually a printing technology.	但它实际上是一种印刷技术。
176	It's a transfer of print off of a copper plate that they could produce the same image	这是从铜板上打印出来的一种转录他们可以产生同样的图像
177	time and time over and over again on a series of teapots.	时间和时间反复在一系列茶壶上。
178	And in it, what they do is they really sort of become very prescriptive about	而在其中,他们所做的是他们真的有点变得非常规范
179	what's the proper use for an aspiring middle class to use this teapot to show you that	一个有抱负的中产阶级用这个茶壶来告诉你有什么用?
180	you should have a table.	你应该有一个桌子。
181	You should have the kinds of accoutrements.	汝等应具种种戒具.
182	You should have some sort of servant.	你应该有个仆人
183	And oftentimes you even see enslaved servants behind pouring, doing the actual physical	你经常看到被奴役的仆人倒在水里, 做真正的身体
184	labor while the couple in front are merely at leisure.	工作,而前面的夫妇只是休闲。
185	In some respects, this is a different kind of portrait, a portrait that	在某些方面,这是另一种肖像,一个肖像
186	moves through time and through space.	穿越时空
187	And so for me, it's really thinking about elevating an object like this to a more	因此,对我来说,它真的考虑将这样的物体提升到更多的
188	sustained kind of analysis, to really contextualize it and to unpack it in as	持续的分析, 真正地将它的背景化, 并把它包装成
189	many different ways as possible to give it that sense of impact that maybe something	许多不同的方法给予它影响感,也许东西
190	like the diva's portrait of the hills is more of a one trick pony in some respects.	喜欢女神的山丘画像更是一个诡计小马在某些方面。
191	And so that's why I ended up really working on this book, which is based on a course	这就是为什么我最终真的写这本书, 这是基于一个课程
192	I've been teaching for eight years now that is designed as an alternative to the	我已经教了八年了被设计成替代
193	usual kind of introduction to art history.	艺术史的介绍
194	And by looking at functional, aesthetically kind of charged objects of really trying	通过观察功能性,美学上那种电荷物体真正尝试
195	to make a human history of art as opposed to one that is distant or removed from a	创造人类艺术史,而不是远离或脱离
196	great number of people and thinking about the ways in which we really need to put	很多人,思考我们真正需要如何使
197	together the concept of realization that is making something and then also the kind	实现的概念正在创造一些东西然后是那种
198	of circulation, what happens when it moves from the shop out into the world.	流通,当它从商店移动到世界。
199	And that can be both movement as well as meaning.	这既可以是运动,也可以是意义。
200	And so the book is really set up to sort of move from the raw material throughout the	所以这本书真的被设定为从原材料中走出来
201	world into production, into movement, circulation, and then ultimately sort of the	进入生产、移动、流通, 并最终排序
202	afterlife as the object continues to move through time and space and perhaps get repurposed,	当物体在时间和空间中继续移动并且可能重新定位
203	perhaps get maintained, perhaps reworked in some respects.	也许得到维持,也许在某些方面重新工作。
204	And I thought I would just sort of walk you through the content of these three different	我想我会只是走你通过这三种不同的内容
205	kinds of sections.	几节
206	That one is to think about making and the importance of materials and understand the	一个是思考制作和材料的重要性,并理解
207	logic of materials and the logic of making.	材料逻辑与制作逻辑.
208	And I thought two good examples of this might be the raffia cushion cover on the left and	我想两个很好的例子可能是左边的拉菲亚衬垫盖
209	then this textile fragment from Gujarat from the 15th century.	然后是15世纪古吉拉特岛的纺织碎片
210	The raffia cover is, you know, the raffia palm in Western Africa was used as a	西非的拉菲亚棕榈被当做
211	source of thread of splitting up the frond, twisting it together, keeping it moist during	绳子的源头将叶子分开扭在一起保持湿润
212	this, and then weaving it on a tension loom.	这个,然后把它编织在紧张状态上
213	But weaving with such incredible kind of technical expertise, you could also make it plush.	但编织这种令人难以置信的技术专长, 你也可以把它加起来。
214	That is, you could have some of the wefts be supplementary and cut them so you have a	也就是说,你可以有一些编织是补充并剪掉,所以你有
215	pile to these sorts of fabrics.	堆到这些布料上
216	You could create different kinds of weave patterns to create diamonds, shapes that you	你可以创造不同种类的编织图案来创造钻石,形状你
217	see in the example on the left.	参见左边的例子。
218	Highly sophisticated work in which these cloths were oftentimes used and exchanged among the	这些布料经常被人们使用和交换的非常复杂的工作。
219	different kingdoms in West Africa as sort of tribute cloth, status cloth.	西非不同的王国作为一种贡品布,地位布。
220	This was a way of affirming connections with one another.	这是确认彼此关系的一种方式。
221	So there was a real value of these and oftentimes as woven as cloaks.	因此,这些和经常编织成斗篷的作品具有真正的价值。
222	When the Portuguese started to come down the African coast trading in the 16th century,	当16世纪葡萄牙人开始在非洲海岸贸易时
223	they looked at this cloth and their reference point was thinking about cut velvet being	他们看着这布他们的参考点是想切丝绒是
224	produced in Europe at this point.	此时在欧洲生产。
225	They saw this as incredibly sophisticated and the local African kings also saw the	当地非洲国王们也看到
226	ways the Portuguese looked at this.	葡萄牙人看这个时的样子
227	The Portuguese described it as fine as the best linen coming from the low countries.	葡萄牙人形容它是来自低地国家的最好的亚麻布.
228	The African kings started to give these cloths as a form of diplomatic gifts, thinking that	非洲国王们开始将这些布作为外交礼物赠送,认为
229	would create them as equals to the Portuguese explorers, merchants and missionaries.	他们和葡萄牙的探险家、商人和传教士一样
230	Many of these objects were then taken back and you see examples in which the Congo are	许多这些物体后来被收回,你可以看到刚果的例子。
231	trying to use this as a way of building up alliances with European powers, even to the	试图以此为手段与欧洲列强建立联盟,甚至与欧洲的欧洲列强建立联盟。
232	But how quickly they start to become disengaged from a sense of localness.	但是,他们是如何迅速脱离一种地方感。
233	This is a piece that is really extraordinary because it's a European form, a pillow cover,	这是一个非常特别的作品,因为它是一个欧洲形式, 一个枕头封面,
234	that has been stitched, seamed on the inside, that they've basically stitched this inside out,	被缝合缝合到里面他们基本上把这个缝在里面
235	put it back together, back right side out to create this cushion cover,	把它组装起来, 右后方出来来创造这个垫盖,
236	something that was very not made in the Congo, but it quickly lost its African heritage	刚果的产物非常不成熟,
237	when it was inventoried in the Swedish royal collection.	当它被清点在瑞典皇家收藏。
238	There was a lot of exchange among different royal courts in 1670.	1670年各王室法院之间进行了大量的交流.
239	It was described as being Portuguese, which suggests its route from Africa to Portugal.	它被描述为葡萄牙人,这表明它从非洲到葡萄牙的路线.
240	Then in the 18th century, it was thought to be from Southeast Asia.	后于18世纪被认为来自东南亚.
241	To me, it's fascinating how no one thought it could possibly be from the Congo,	对我来说,令人着迷的是,没有人认为这可能是来自刚果,
242	that it was of such fine quality.	质量这么好
243	The Gujarat cloth is also a really interesting case study in that it was made for	古吉拉特布也是一个非常有趣的案例研究,因为它是为了
244	the Egyptian market.	埃及市场。
245	You can see in the lower right corner that pseudo Islamic script	在右下角可以看到伪伊斯兰文字
246	that shows an awareness, and the Gujaratis, who have, because of the climate, have wonderful	古吉拉特人,由于气候的原因, 拥有美妙的
247	cotton, but they also have a plant, a che root, that is really ideal for	棉花,但他们也有植物,切根, 这是真正理想的
248	reds, really colourfast reds.	红色的红色的
249	In their dye stuffs, they have ideal water for setting	在他们的染料中,他们有理想的水设置
250	these kinds of dyes, the indigo for the blue.	这些染料蓝色的印地安人
251	And we tend to think about Egyptian cotton today, but actually in the 15th century,	我们今天往往想埃及的棉花但实际上在15世纪
252	Egypt was still very much of a linen culture, which dates back into ancient Egypt.	埃及仍然非常具有亚麻文化,这种文化可以追溯到古埃及.
253	Their cotton industry is actually much more recent.	他们的棉花工业实际上更近一些。
254	And Gujarat was engaged in a lot of Indian trade across the Indian Ocean to the Arab	古吉拉特参与了许多印度贸易跨越印度洋到阿拉伯
255	Peninsula and to East Africa, and was producing cloth for that export market as early as the 10th	半岛和东非早在10号就为那个出口市场生产布料
256	century.	一个世纪
257	Again, making good use of their supply of materials, cotton, their dye stuffs, like indigo	再说一次,好好利用他们的物资棉花染料,像Indigo
258	or che root, also known as matter, and also the technology that they had for knowing how	或切根,又称物质, 和他们掌握的技术如何
259	to do block printing, cutting wooden blocks and being able to register this sort of decoration	进行块印刷,切割木块,并能够注册这种装饰
260	on large swaths of cloth.	在大片的布上,
261	A second example in which we sort of talk about the ways in which	第二个例子,我们谈论了如何
262	local materials and conventions might have different impact on similar kinds of forms	地方材料和公约可能对类似形式产生不同的影响。
263	would be these two cabinets.	这将是这两个内阁。
264	On the left, one from the Netherlands, again, these are from the same	在左边,一个来自荷兰, 再一次,这些来自相同的
265	period in which the overall effect of this, what is called oyster veneering, that is taking the	其总体影响,即所谓的牡蛎捕食作用,即
266	olive wood and cutting cross sections of it.	橄榄木和切断它的交叉部分。
267	So you have a whole series of circles that are all	所以你有一系列的圆圈
268	veneered over the surface.	阴气过于表面.
269	And it really sort of emphasizes this idea of a very thin veneer surface,	它真的有点强调这个想法一个非常薄的表面,
270	that it's surface decoration.	这是表面装饰。
271	And in many ways you could say it embodies that Dutch aesthetic of	在许多方面,你可以说它体现了荷兰的美学
272	outing, which wants order depth, which is really conveyed within these cross sections of legible	输出,它需要命令的深度, 真正传递在这些可辨认的交叉部分
273	spatial relations, luscious color harmony.	空间关系,优雅的色彩和谐.
274	If you think about a lot of Dutch still life paintings	如果你想到很多荷兰的活画
275	at this time period, this is it replicated in another natural material.	在这个时候,这是在另一种自然材料中复制的。
276	And it's a cabinet	是个柜子
277	that you would open up the doors and you'd have drawers behind in which you could put your	你会打开门,你会有抽屉后面你可以把你的
278	collectible items.	可收藏物品。
279	In Pulakat in the Kormemba coast in East India, what you've got is the same	在东印度的科门巴海岸的普拉卡特, 你得到的是一样的
280	form of a doored cabinet with drawers behind it, a drawer underneath that's set up on legs with that	门面的柜子后面有抽屉下面有抽屉放在腿上
281	same sort of barbell stretcher connecting the legs that you see in the Dutch example.	在荷兰的例子中, 连接腿部的同样的巴铃担架。
282	But in this case,	但在这种情况下,
283	it's totally different kind of material approach.	这是完全不同的物质方法。
284	They are using ebony, a wood that comes from	他们用的是Ebony,一种来自
285	that lower, from Tamil Nadu, the lower Kormemba coast in Sri Lanka.	从泰米尔纳德邦到斯里兰卡的科曼巴海岸
286	The wood is carved.	木为雕刻.
287	Almost every part of the surface is carved.	几乎地表的每一部分都是雕刻的.
288	It has this kind of sheen to it.	它有这种花纹。
289	Ebony是绝妙的
290	wood, tight-grained, very dense and heavy that takes this kind of vegetal kind of motif,	木头,紧紧的,非常密集和沉重, 需要这种植物种类的摩托,
291	which actually is very similar to the jolly screens in mosques throughout different parts	和清真寺的欢乐屏幕非常相似
292	of the Mughal Empire.	在莫卧儿帝国。
293	And here, what you might say is rather than expressing this idea of howding,	在这里,你可能会说, 而不是表达这种想法的嚎叫,
294	they're taking a Dutch form.	他们正采取荷兰的形式。
295	And Pulakat is a Dutch factory, that is a Dutch trading post	Pulakat是荷兰的工厂,是荷兰的贸易站
296	on the Kormemba coast.	在科门巴海岸
297	But they are having the local makers work with their own traditions	但是,他们让本地的制造者用他们自己的传统工作
298	to embody these Sanskrit notions of boga, which is this idea of a really rich, sensuous	来体现这些梵语的博加概念, 这就是一个真正丰富,感性的想法
299	kind of handling of materials, which is that densely carved ebony.	一种材料的处理, 即密集雕刻的骨骼。
300	And then also marga,	还有玛嘉
301	an intent to blend different regional aesthetics.	打算融合不同的区域美学。
302	In this case, blending the Dutch with the local	在这种情况下,荷兰人和当地人混杂在一起
303	kind of perspective.	那种视角。
304	So I just use those two pairings to sort of show the richness,	所以我就用这两个配对来显示丰富的,
305	if you pay attention to materials and processes of seeing these kinds of equivalences or	如果你注意看到这些等同物的材料和过程,或者
306	ways in which people can respond at the same time using local traditions and local materials.	利用当地传统和地方材料同时作出反应的方式。
307	Many times people are looking at these objects and trying to sort of freeze them in place.	很多时候人们在看着这些物体并试图将其固定下来。
308	If	若为
309	you go to museums, it seems like oftentimes if you put a piece of decorative art on view,	你去博物馆,它似乎经常,如果你把一块装饰艺术在视图,
310	you oftentimes have something literally trying to recreate what it looked like as it left the shop,	你经常有东西字面上试图重现它的样子,当它离开商店,
311	just as it was born in essence.	就像它从本质上诞生一样
312	But yet objects moved.	但物体移动了
313	And this becomes a really important part	这成为很重要的一部分
314	of the story of why they are hard to track in some respects, how you can sort of find them	故事,为什么他们难以追踪一些方面, 你如何可以找到他们
315	stable at certain moments in time.	稳定在一定的时间点。
316	And I think that the whole story of blue and white	我认为整个故事的蓝白
317	ceramic is one of these fascinating stories.	陶瓷是其中之一迷人的故事。
318	And many times people think about its relationship	人们常常会考虑它的关系
319	to Chinese porcelain.	至中华瓷.
320	That's always been the blue and white story.	这一直是蓝白故事
321	But yet blue and white actually	但其实蓝白
322	has a complicated story right from the beginning in the 9th century, where you've got the different	从9世纪开始就有了一个复杂的故事, 你得到了不同的
323	kinds of opposite technology in ceramics that is covering an orangey kind of earthenware with a	陶瓷中的相反技术覆盖一种橙色的土器皿
324	white tin oxide and then using cobalt, which was found in greater Iran at this time, to paint	白锡氧化物,然后用此时在大伊朗发现的钴来涂料
325	blue decoration on that white tin glazed oxide.	蓝色装饰的白色锡玻璃氧化物。
326	And how trade of the aromatics of incense,	香气的买卖,
327	myrrh, et cetera, from the Arab Peninsula to China in the 9th century and then bringing ceramics back	在9世纪从阿拉伯半岛到中国然后把陶瓷带回来
328	had introduced white stoneware to the Arab Peninsula.	在阿拉伯半岛引入了白色石器
329	And then that blue and white technique	然后蓝白技术
330	that emerges in places like Basra then starts to impact what's going on in Chinese stoneware	在巴士拉等地出现然后开始影响中国的石器
331	in the north of China, such as you see on the right, where most of the time stoneware in China	在中国北部,例如右边, 中国大部分的石器
332	had really been white, celadon, did not have cobalt blue.	原本是白色的, celadon, 没有钴蓝色。
333	And cobalt becomes another one of these	钴又成为其中之一
334	export items.	出口项目。
335	And in fact, in Qingdechen, they oftentimes referred to the blue paint as Muslim	事实上,在清代,他们经常把蓝漆称为穆斯林
336	blue because it came from Iran early on until they started developing some of their own blues.	蓝色是因为它早年从伊朗传来,直到他们开始开发一些自己的蓝调.
337	This really sets up this, you know, in greater Iran, they moved from even tin	在大伊朗,他们从锡中搬走了
338	glazed earthenware to using fritware, which is sort of ground quartz and white clay	光滑的土器械用来使用火化器械这是一种地面石英和白色粘土
339	and glass frit to create this even more brilliant white body.	和玻璃颤抖创造这个更辉煌的白色身体。
340	And one has to think about fritware	也得考虑一下面包
341	coming from greater Iran and porcelain coming from Qingdechen initially as the two centers	来自大伊朗的瓷器和青德琴的瓷器最初是两个中心
342	of blue and white porcelains in the 13th century.	13世纪的青白瓷
343	And the fact that they are both	他们俩都是
344	really strong traditions, it's not like one preceded the other, but they almost sort of	真正的强传统, 不像一个前, 但几乎是那种
345	grew out simultaneously out of some of the same impulses that had been going on for several	由一些同样的冲动同时发展出来一直持续到几个
346	hundred years.	百年..
347	And you can see even in some of this early work being produced in Qingdechen,	即使在清代的早期作品中
348	that they were very much aware of the Islamic market of having this pseudo script as a decorative	他们非常清楚伊斯兰市场拥有这个假字作为装饰
349	device.	设备。
350	And in fact, you can see this back and forth, as it were, the movement of ideas	事实上,你可以看到思想的传承
351	through objects.	穿过物体。
352	The bunch of grapes pattern gets produced in both porcelain as well as in fritware	葡萄图案既用瓷器也用佛瑞特器皿制作
353	and all the great collections either in the imperial collections in China or	和所有伟大的收藏无论是在中国的帝国收藏或
354	in the Ardabil Shrine in Isfahan or in Topkapi Palace in Istanbul.	在伊斯法罕的阿尔达比勒圣殿或伊斯坦布尔的托普卡皮宫。
355	It's always a mix of both	总是兼而有之
356	fritware and Chinese porcelain.	花纹和中国瓷器
357	They were considered equivalent at this moment in time.	在这个时候,它们被认为是相等的。
358	And how that idea of blue and white being sort of the top of the ceramic pyramid at this point	蓝色和白色是陶瓷金字塔顶部的这个想法
359	influences a number of other people to continue to produce knockoffs, as it were.	影响着其他一些人继续产生连锁反应
360	So the Portuguese	所以说葡萄牙人
361	sort of working in that Mediterranean tradition from the early Arab world starts to work with	在早期阿拉伯世界的地中海传统中,
362	tin-glazed earthenware and producing plates and dishes that really mimic the export ware that was	生产盘子和盘子真正模仿出口器皿
363	how the Dutch also got in on this of producing tin-glazed earthenware sort of at a different	荷兰人是如何参与生产锡-玻璃土器械的?
364	price point than the imported kind of Qingdechen pottery.	价格点比进口的清代陶器种类.
365	But it's not simply trickled down from	但它并不只是从
366	sort of a China to the European producers.	一种中国对欧洲生产商。
367	There's oftentimes a back and forth.	时常有前后.
368	And	还有
369	this series I think really shows the ways in which this is captivating different producers'	这一系列,我认为真正显示的方式这是吸引不同的制作人。
370	imagination.	想象力。
371	On the left you have a plate in the so-called willow pattern which was transfer	在左边,你有一个盘子在所谓的柳图案,这是转移
372	decorated.	装饰.
373	That again is copper plate engraving.	这又是铜板雕刻
374	You ink it up, you put tissue on it, then you	你把它涂上,你涂上组织,然后你
375	take that tissue and apply it to the plate.	把纸巾放到盘子上
376	So every part of that image, both the scene and the	画面的每一个部分无论是现场还是现场
377	border, is done through print technology and you can produce sets of these plates.	边框,通过打印技术完成你可以生产这些盘子的套件。
378	So it's using	所以这是用
379	British kind of technology on the British refined earthenware body.	英国的精制土器体技术
380	And then in the middle what you	然后在中间的你
381	see is the way that the potteries in Qingdechen respond to that willow pattern but using porcelain	清代的陶器是用青柳图案来反应的
382	and they're hand painting all this.	他们用手画这一切。
383	So this is not transfer decorated.	故此不为转移装饰.
384	There are going to be	会有的
385	slight variations in all of them.	它们都略有变化。
386	But it's a Chinese response to a British idea that's based	但这是中国对英国思想的回应
387	on an imagined China.	在一个想象中的中国。
388	And then you get to the plate on the right which is from Qingdechen.	然后,你得到的盘子在右边是清德琴。
389	And what you see here is it's hand painted underglaze in blue but it's painted to simulate	你在这里看到的是手被涂成蓝色的底镜但被涂成模拟
390	the look of a transfer decorated object in and of its own.	外观显示一个在内部和自身装饰的转让对象。
391	It's not a typical kind of intertwined	这不是典型的交织
392	fluid pattern that you would find in terms of a hand painted Chinese kind of	流体图案,用手画的中国画
393	inspiration motif but actually it's this isolated printed looking kind of object	灵感是主动的,但其实是这个孤立的印刷物
394	but it's done in a hand painted tradition.	但这是用手画的传统
395	So to me this gets this really complicated thing.	对我来说这很复杂
396	Is	已经
397	this Chinese?	这个中国人?
398	Is this British?	这是英国人吗?
399	Is it Anglo-Chinese?	是英裔华人吗?
400	It's everything.	谓一切法.
401	And it really is the circulation	这真的是流通
402	of these objects and the awareness of markets as staffers competing with Qingdechen for	以及市场作为工作人员与清德钦竞争
403	different parts of the ceramic market.	陶瓷市场的不同部分。
404	Lacquer presents this other example of the movement of	Lacquer 呈现了另一个运动的例子:
405	ideas and technologies.	想法和技术。
406	The great galleon trade coming from Manila to the west coast of the	从马尼拉到西海岸的大加仑贸易
407	Americas, to Al Capulco, amongst those cargoes being collected in Manila from throughout East	美洲到卡普尔科,在马尼拉从整个东部收集的货物中
408	Asia was Japanese lacquer work, Chinese silks, and many of these objects were coffers, screens,	亚洲是日本的彩绘作品,中国的丝绸, 并且很多这些物品是国库,银幕,
409	etc., the lacquered objects.	等,被粉饰的物体。
410	This is an example that was made for a European market, particularly	这是一个欧洲市场的例子,特别是:
411	a Portuguese market initially but then shipped across the Pacific that's very dense in terms	最初是葡萄牙的市场,但后来又在太平洋各地发货,其密度非常高
412	of its use of gold and silver powders as well as very thin pieces of mother of pearl,	以金银粉和珍珠的薄壳盟誓,
413	a kind of lacquer tradition called macier that was shipped.	一种叫macier的彩绘传统被运走
414	It had a layover, if you will,	如果你愿意的话,它有停留
415	for a hundred years or so in Central America, South America, at which point it gets some of	在中美洲,南美,一百年左右的时间里,它得到了一些
416	silver kind of mounts, the corner pieces, the hasp for the lock, those get added in silver.	银色的山,角片, 散列为锁, 这些被加入银。
417	Originally in Japan, they would oftentimes be made out of copper, so they've been upgraded	最初在日本,它们常常用铜制成,所以已经升级
418	with the use of American silver coming either from Mexico or from Potosi in Bolivia and then	使用美国白银要么来自墨西哥要么来自玻利维亚的波托西
419	eventually work their way across the Atlantic and oftentimes are found in churches back in northern	最终穿越大西洋经常在北部的教堂里出现
420	Spain where a lot of the Spanish colonial officials came from, so that this is an object	许多西班牙殖民官员来自西班牙所以这是个目标
421	that sort of speaks to lacquer being brought across the Pacific, incorporated within the	那种言语是把彩绘带过太平洋并融入其中
422	Central and South American New Spain world, and then ultimately back to Spain.	中南美新西班牙世界,然后最终回到西班牙.
423	But at the same time,	但与此同时,
424	there's a local tradition in South America that is using another kind of material	南美洲有种地方传统使用另一种材料
425	that the Indigenous people refer to as Mopa Mopa, which was a small little bud right at the base of	土著人民称为Mopa Mopa, 是一个小小萌芽就在基部
426	a leaf of a certain tree in the upper Amazon, sort of on the east side of the Andes, in which	亚马逊河上游某棵树的叶子大约位于安第斯山脉东侧
427	this was chewed, it's masticated, and then stretched into something that is like Saran wrap	这被嚼了,它被塑胶, 然后伸到像撒兰包装的东西
428	and was typically used by the Indigenous people to cover gourds, natural sorts of vessels.	通常被土著人民用来覆盖瓜子和自然种类的船只。
429	You could add colors from different natural ingredients while you're chewing and create all	你可以从不同的天然成分中添加颜色当你咀嚼和创造所有
430	sorts of different colors, which then could be assembled like a jigsaw puzzle to create a	不同的颜色,然后可以组装成拼图来创建
431	pictorial kind of composition, and then sort of you could pen in certain things, or maybe to think	画像的成分, 然后排序你可以笔在某些事情, 或者也许思考
432	of it as a form of marquetry and that technique used for wood, but in this case done with a very	一种木制工艺但在这种情况下
433	thin sheathing, but it does the same thing that lacquer does, it provides a protoplastic kind of	薄薄的薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄薄
434	sealant to the base structure.	密封于基结构.
435	And these artisans who worked with Mopa Mopa were then	那些和莫帕合作的工匠当时
436	encouraged by the Spanish officials to start applying them to Spanish forms, whether they be	受到西班牙官员的鼓励,他们开始将其应用于西班牙表格,无论这些表格是
437	caskets or writing cabinets, and you see here sort of a way in which, and when some people would say	棺材或书写柜子,你在这里看到一种方式,当一些人会说
438	oh this is pseudo lacquer work, you know they're imitating the kind of work that you see on the	哦,这是假漆的作品, 你知道他们正在模仿你看到的作品
439	left, but actually it's a very different tradition.	左,但实际上这是一个非常不同的传统。
440	It is coming from the Indigenous know-how	这是来自土著的诀窍
441	who are then applying it for an expanded market for the Spanish officials, and the Spanish even	然后申请扩大西班牙官员的市场甚至是西班牙官员
442	start to refer to it as something else from their own point of reference.	开始从他们自己的角度把它称为别的东西.
443	They call it barniz de	他们称之为谷仓
444	pasto, barniz being Spanish for varnish, pasto being the capital of that part of the viceroyalty	面条,谷仓是西班牙语的清漆, 面条是那部分总督府的首府
445	Peru.	秘鲁。
446	Basically, as I said, in Colombia now, in the upper Amazon on the east slope of the Andes.	基本上,正如我所说,现在哥伦比亚, 在安第斯山脉东坡的亚马逊上游。
447	So this needs to be seen on its own again as sort of a parallel world in the same way that we might	因此,这需要再次被单独地视为一种平行的世界与我们可能一样
448	think of brickware and blue and white porcelain.	想想砖瓦和青白瓷
449	These are coexisting, and they started airing	这些是共存的,它们开始播放
450	but they're not, one's not derivative of the other.	但他们不是,一个不是另一个的衍生物。
451	One is not influenced per se by the other.	一种不受另一种影响。
452	You might even sort of thinking about ways in which objects and ideas come together in the	你甚至可以考虑一下物体和想法如何在
453	work of William Kick, who's a Dutch ornamental painter of the early 17th century, who sees	William Kick的作品,他是17世纪早期的荷兰装饰画家,他看到了
454	lacquer work coming from Japan that is this sort of deep black with gold powders.	彩绘作品来自日本, 是这种深黑色的金粉。
455	He starts to imitate sort of the crockware of those plates that are being exported,	他开始模仿那些被出口的板块的硬盘
456	but he translates it into a form of lacquers that you see on the left, or even starts to incorporate	但是他把它译为一种你左边看到的彩绘, 甚至开始融入
457	some of the actual porcelain as the inset pieces of a set of plates that he's produced,	一些实际的瓷器作为他制作的一组板块的内嵌件,
458	all of which are sort of evoking crock porcelain both in terms of the motifs around the border,	在边界周围的地盘上, 都出现了瓷器
459	using actual crock porcelain in the interior medallion, but using European materials of	使用内部装饰中的实际青瓷,但使用欧洲材料:
460	varnish of gold leaf polychrome glazes to produce this kind of hybrid type of object.	粉刷金叶多色玻璃,以产生这种混合型物体.
461	Then we might think about ways in which an object could actually stimulate different kinds of	然后,我们可能会思考如何使物体真正刺激不同的类型
462	responses and not from Europe down to the far reaches of the empire, but sometimes it works	而不是从欧洲到帝国的远处但有时还是有效的
463	in a variety of different ways.	以各种不同的方式。
464	Here's an example on the left of a silk ground textile that has silk	左边有个有丝绸的纺织厂的例子
465	embroidery done in China in the 17th century that we know were sent as export items.	17世纪在中国完成的刺绣,已知是作为出口物品送来的.
466	There's a temple in Kyoto has one of these.	京都有一座寺庙有此经之一.
467	There are several other examples that	还有其他几个例子:
468	sort of are dispersed and not used only in China, but what was really significant about them is they	一种是分散的,不仅在中国使用, 真正有意义的是它们
469	had a peony in the middle flanked by phoenixes with these rectangular borders with mythical	中侧有一匹小马被凤凰围住长方形的边界和神话
470	creatures all around the side, but again it's embroidery silk on silk.	周围的生物,但又是丝绸上的绣线丝.
471	But then what emerges in	但后来的出现
472	the viceroyalty of Peru is something that's got the same conventions of a peony in the middle,	秘魯的總管權權是一樣的中間有一只小马的傳統,
473	phoenixes on either side, mythical animals both Chinese in origin as well as	凤凰在两边,神话中的动物无论是起源于中国还是起源于中国
474	other local animals, alpacas, but this is not embroidered.	其他的当地动物,美洲狮, 但这不是刺绣。
475	This is woven.	这是编织的。
476	This is tapestry	这是挂毯
477	woven with camelid wool that is from the llamas, with cotton from the Peruvian coast,	由山羊毛和秘鲁海岸的棉花组成
478	and it's dyed red with cochineal, which is that insect that is affixed to cacti in Central and	它的染色是红色的科奇纳就是那个在中央和中央
479	South America.	南美洲.
480	So this is something that's motif-wise and compositionally it's very much	所以,这是一些动机和组成它非常
481	drawn from the Chinese example, but it's done all with local techniques and local materials.	从中国的例子中抽取,但都是用当地技术和当地材料完成的.
482	Late 17th century, it's only in the 18th century that Portugal starts to copy some of the same	17世纪后期,葡萄牙直到18世纪才开始抄袭部分同文.
483	thing in terms of again using embroidery, using silk thread embroidery, but it's on a linen ground,	重新使用刺绣使用丝线刺绣但在亚麻地上
484	which is again sort of a common form of a ground for textiles, but again you start to see the same	这也是纺织业的一种常见形式但还是开始看到
485	sort of images.	某种图像。
486	So it almost reverses the usual kind of from the center out to the periphery,	所以它几乎颠倒了通常那种从中央到外围,
487	and again sort of relocates us in our geographies.	并再次将我们重新定位在我们的地理上。
488	Finally, thinking about meaning,	最后,想想意义,
489	sort of things are circulating, ideas are getting transmitted, materials are moving around,	一些东西在流传思想在传播材料在移动
490	ideas are being translated into local materials.	想法正在被翻译成当地材料。
491	We might think about a couple different ways that	我们可能会考虑几种不同的方式
492	meaning is accrued over time.	意义是逐渐累积的。
493	So one might be the idea of gift.	所以也许有种天赋
494	A gift could be something as	礼物可以像
495	simple and as sort of personal as a tobacco box, such as you see here on the left.	简单和像烟草盒一样的个性就像你左边看到的
496	Done	写好了
497	with brass.	与青铜。
498	It's a gift from one person to another.	一人赠之.
499	It's so well appreciated.	非常感谢
500	The engraving	雕刻
501	has worn because this has been handled and touched so many times because it's handheld.	因为它是手持的所以它被处理和触摸过很多次
502	This is something that's a small snuff box, and sometimes this is the equivalent of a calling card	这是一种小的口袋, 有时这相当于一个呼叫卡
503	in the early modern period that someone like Elihu Yale actually had 300 snuff boxes when he died.	在早期的现代时期,像伊利胡·耶鲁这样的人实际上有300个闷闷不乐的盒子,在他死的时候.
504	Obviously, it's not like he's going to have a snuff box in every room of his house or	显然他家的每个房间都不会装一个闷闷不乐的盒子
505	all over.	到处都是
506	He's giving them away as tokens of memory, of remember my friendship.	他把它们当作纪念物用来纪念我的友谊
507	So I think it's really important to think about that idea of the personal gift that you have here,	所以我认为考虑一下你在这里的个人天赋是非常重要的
508	but you also can have another kind of gift that's built off of plunder,	但你也可以有另一种以掠夺为生的天赋
509	which is what you've got on the right side, which is the original tent owned by Tipu Sultan,	这是你右侧的原始帐篷由提普苏丹拥有
510	the person who the British really thought he was the last person to defeat the British army	英国人认为他是最后打败英国军队的人
511	after the American Revolution.	美国革命后
512	But the British so hated Tipu Sultan.	但英国人如此讨厌提普苏丹
513	In fact,	事实上,
514	were worried that he was going to have an alliance with the French to drive the	担心他会和法国人结盟
515	East India Company out of India at the end of the 18th century that they went all out to defeat	东印度公司在18世纪末从印度出来他们都出去打败了
516	and killed Tipu Sultan down in Mysore.	在密索尔杀了提普苏丹
517	His palace was ransacked by East India Company soldiers,	他的宫殿被东印度公司的士兵洗劫一空
518	and so it was seized as plunder by Richard Wellesley, who presented it to Edward Clive,	于是被理查德·韦尔斯利作为掠夺品没收, 他把它交给爱德华·克莱夫,
519	the governor of Madras at that point, and a member of the East India Company of sort of	他当时是马德拉斯的州长也是东印度公司的成员
520	tribute and now hangs in Palace Castle in Wales as sort of part of the Clive Memorial	现在在威尔士的宫殿城堡里作为克莱夫纪念馆的一部分
521	for their destiny.	他们的命运。
522	We might think about meaning of appearance of thinking about ways of art and	我们也许能考虑一下艺术方式的外观
523	science being combined together.	科学是结合在一起的。
524	A chest on the left from Boston with this burl veneer that is	波士顿左侧的一个胸口上面有这个毛毯,就是
525	the diseased part of the tree that has this interlocking grain that creates this really	这棵树的病态部分有这种相互交错的谷物产生这种真正的
526	vibrant kind of surface.	充满活力的表面
527	This is not a time at which veneer is used because there's a shortage	现在不是因为缺钱而使用阴间
528	of wood.	木头
529	There's so much wood in New England at this point that it's important to understand	此时新英格兰有这么多木头需要了解
530	what's the value of veneer.	阴阳的值多少.
531	And if you look at the ways in which the veneer is laid over those	如果你看看阴道的铺设方式这些
532	fronts, and then there's a little thinner line around each of them outlining the burl	前面,然后周围有条比较细的线每一个都勾勒出布球
533	done in just sort of a plain herringbone walnut.	做在一个普通的草莓骨核桃。
534	Well, one only has to look at the work of Robert	只要看看罗伯特的作品
535	Hooke, who wrote a book about sort of the idea of the microscope in the 1660s and 1670s,	胡克在1660年代和1670年代写了一本关于显微镜想法的书,
536	to realize that there's this great interest in the microscopic world at this point.	以意识到现在对微观世界的极大兴趣
537	He does	没错
538	cross-sections of palms, palm trees, and various other things to sort of look at the world of	棕榈树,棕榈树, 和各种其他东西的交叉部分来观察世界
539	vessels for trees and things like that.	树和类似的东西的容器。
540	So burl, if you think about this, this is like an illustration	所以,如果你想这个,这就像一个插图
541	from Robert Hooke that you've got this close-up microscopic detail of wood that's framed not by	从罗伯特钩子,你得到了这个特写细微细节的木头不是由
542	a black line at the engraving in Hooke's book, but in this case by the herringbone veneer.	在胡克的书中刻着一条黑线, 但在这种情况下,由草本植物。
543	To think of this as microfilia, writ three-dimensionally as opposed to being	把这当成是微小的, 以三维的字写着而不是作为
544	in a book, or to think about Sheffield plate of silver plating that we oftentimes tend to think	在一本书中,或者想谢菲尔德的盘子镀银,我们经常认为
545	about silver plating on a base metal as being cheap, tawdry.	说在底金属上镀银很便宜
546	But again, in the late 18th,	但是在18岁晚期
547	early 19th century, this was considered the ultimate in the convergence of art and science.	19世纪初,这被认为是艺术与科学交汇的终极.
548	The ability to roll with heavy rollers, to roll sheet silver over a body and to then put it into	能够用重的滚筒滚动将银板滚过一具尸体然后放进去
549	a neoclassical form, which isn't really have relief carving or anything like that.	新古典主义的形式, 它没有真正的解脱雕刻或类似的东西。
550	It's really	这是真的
551	sort of the tautness of the façade really lent itself.	外表的细腻真的很适合自己
552	So you've got this way in which	所以你有这样的方式
553	the science of rolling a silver plate and the aesthetics of neoclassicism come together to make	新古典主义的美学
554	this a desirable object, even amongst those who could afford solid silver at the same time.	即使是那些能同时买得起坚固的银子的人也希望如此
555	And then final thing about meaning is touch.	最后一点就是触摸
556	To me, it really is the language of material	对我来说,这真的是物质的语言
557	literacy.	识字。
558	You can see it within the connoisseurs of Chinese literature, that all these points of	在中国文学界的学者中,你可以看到这些观点
559	connoisseurship and collecting in the literati is about touch of feel of bronzes and various	博物学和收集在Litrati 的触觉铜和各种感觉
560	other objects.	其他物体。
561	That it's not simply an ocular centric kind of exercise, but it's full embodied	这不仅仅是一种以视觉为中心的运动,而是完全体现
562	engagement.	订婚。
563	And it can be both the scholar that you have on the left, but it could also be the	也可以是左边的学者
564	language of the marketplace when people don't speak the same language with kind of cultural	市场的语言,当人们不说相同的语言与某种文化
565	referrism of the 19th century, in which you've got these proper European ladies in the copper	在19世纪的教程中, 青铜器里有这些欧洲女人
566	souk in Egypt who are looking at these kinds of copper alloy vessels.	埃及的苏克人正在寻找这些铜合金船
567	Language, it's not,	语言,它不是,
568	it's bits and pieces, but it's primarily through touch that people are understanding	这是零碎的, 但主要是通过触摸人们理解
569	something about the workmanship.	有关工作技巧的东西。
570	And I just want to leave you with a sense of why a connected art	我只想给你一个感知为什么一个连接的艺术
571	history focused on functional objects is important.	注重功能对象的历史很重要。
572	For one, it provides an alternative to this idea	首先,它提供了一个替代这个想法的方法
573	of chronological progressive stories that automatically assume a rise, a golden age,	时间顺序进步的故事自动假设一个上升, 一个黄金时代,
574	and a decline.	和下降。
575	It gets away from this idea of kind of a national narrative that everybody's	它远离了这种想法一种民族的叙述每个人都
576	by country of origin, and you don't see the connections between, say,	而你们却看不到彼此之间的联系比如说
577	greater Iran and China in terms of ceramics.	在陶瓷方面,大伊朗和中国。
578	To think about the world's been much more connected	想想这个世界的联系要大得多
579	than we think over time.	比我们想的时间。
580	I think that the principles of sustained rigorous visual analysis,	我认为持续严格的视觉分析的原则
581	which is the basis of any history of art class, but what happens when you get embodied analysis	这是任何艺术课历史的基础但当你得到体现的分析时会发生什么
582	in there as well?	里面还有吗?
583	And this is where touch comes in.	这就是触摸的地方
584	This is where can you understand how these	这是哪里你能理解这些
585	objects, how we as human beings interact with these objects?	我们人类如何与这些物体互动?
586	How do we wrap ourselves in these	我们如何在这些
587	textiles or put our faces on the textiles?	还是把我们的脸放在纺织品上?
588	How do we pick up a copper alloy vessel?	如何取铜合金船.
589	Is it cold?	冷吗?
590	Is	已经
591	it warm?	暖和吗?
592	How does it feel?	感觉怎么样?
593	And so to me, it's really about material literacy rather than this	对我来说,这是真正的物质知识而不是这个
594	idea of taxonomical appreciation, to be able to put something into a stylistic little pigeonhole.	能够把东西放进结构化的小鸽子洞里
595	Oftentimes people are very, what I call, object-centered in which they have a series	经常有人非常,我所说的, 以物体为中心他们有一个系列
596	of diagnostic features that leads to attribution, that freezes an object in time.	诊断特征导致归属及时冻结物体
597	But I'm interested	但我有兴趣
598	in this kind of what I call object-driven inquiry, that the object is merely a beginning point	在这种我称之为对象驱动的询问中,对象仅仅是一个起点
599	rather than an end point.	而不是终点。
600	That you can look at these features, but it can lead to an understanding	你可以看这些特征, 但它可以导致理解
601	of choice from many possibilities, acceptance of change over time, the attention to the social life	从许多可能性中作出选择、接受随时间而变化、关注社会生活
602	of an object, how it gets repurposed, where it maintained.	对象,它如何被重新使用,它在哪里维持。
603	And this really allows us to think	这真的让我们思考
604	about objects as evidence, as historical evidence that helps offset the bias of written imperial	关于物体作为证据,作为有助于抵消书面帝国主义偏见的历史证据
605	records, that gives voice to anonymous makers, anonymous owners, anonymous circulators.	给匿名的制作者、匿名的拥有者、匿名的循环器
606	And I	还有我
607	think ultimately the big takeaway when I'm teaching this course, or with the hope of this book, is that	想想当我教这门课时或带着这本书的希望
608	really stimulates both curiosity and tolerance about the material world around us, which	真正激发我们周围物质世界的好奇心和容忍度
609	ultimately leads to curiosity, tolerance, and engagement on a human person-to-person level.	最终导致好奇心、宽容和人与人之间的接触。
610	So that's, I've gone on longer than I thought, but I hope that sort of gives you an overview	也就是说,我比我想的要长, 但我希望这能给你一个概览
611	of the book and its value.	及其价值。
612	Thank you.	谢谢
613	What a fascinating presentation with the juxtaposition	多么迷人的演示与并排
614	of the objects.	对象。
615	I want to invite Marlon.	我想邀请马龙。
616	Yes, please.	是的,谢谢。
617	Thank you so much, Ned.	谢谢你,奈德
618	It's so interesting,	这太有趣了,
619	and you know, I've got a chance to see many, many beautiful objects for this early morning	你知道,我有一个机会看到很多,许多美丽的物品为这个早晨
620	after the power outage out last night.	昨晚断电后
621	This is a real treat.	这真是大餐
622	But those of you who are in other	但你们中那些在别处的人
623	parts of the world, you know, we had power outage on the Eastern Seaboard last night, which is	我们昨晚在东海板上停电了
624	quite interesting that we actually were able to pull together this event, you know, smoothly.	非常有意思的是,我们实际上能够把这个活动,你知道,顺利。
625	So I want to tell everyone that Professor Cook and I had a very lively phone conversation earlier	所以我想告诉大家库克教授和我之前的电话交谈很活跃
626	two days ago, you know, to discuss how we can pursue this.	两天前,我们讨论如何继续
627	And now that I actually have been,	现在,我其实已经,
628	you know, going through all the questions that everyone put in, I think the first set of questions	你知道,通过所有的问题每个人都提出, 我认为第一组问题
629	that we thought, Ned, it actually might fit very well.	我们认为,内德, 它实际上可能非常适合。
630	And we're going to begin with the things on	我们从头开始
631	the cover of the book itself, you know, and that talks about a connected art history.	书的封面,你知道的, 并谈论一个连接的艺术历史。
632	Most of you	你们大多数
633	might have known already, but let's do some recap to know why this word is quite unique for art	可能已经知道,但让我们回顾一下为什么这个词对艺术来说是独一无二的
634	historians, as well as cultural historians, the word connected history, connected art history.	历史学家,以及文化史学家,连通历史的词,连通艺术史.
635	It has a long historiography dating back to the very ginormous debate between Godfrey Semper	它有很长的编年史可以追溯到戈弗雷·森普尔之间的激烈争论
636	and Alorigo in the 19th century.	和19世纪的阿洛里戈
637	And to sum the two thick books written in German into three	把用德语写的两本厚厚的书合并成三本
638	sentences, that would be Semper argued that there could be analogous origins of objects,	Semper认为可能存在类似的物体起源,
639	because the players know that the materials were created.	因为玩家知道材料是创造出来的.
640	Rigo, on the other hand, said, well,	而里戈则说
641	you know, you by saying that you actually discounted what we call the wills of the artists	你知道,你说你实际上低估了我们所谓的艺术家的遗嘱
642	and the many, many, many, many translation of Kunstwahl, and you can look it up, you know,	和许多,许多,许多,许多翻译昆斯瓦赫,你可以查一下,你知道,
643	on that end.	在那个方面。
644	So then it leads us here, you know, and there were a number of art historians who	因此,它引导我们在这里,你知道, 有一些艺术历史学家谁
645	tried to reinterpret a connected art history, you know, we named many of them in our phone	试图重新解释一个相联的艺术史, 你知道,我们命名了很多在我们的电话中
646	conversation, you know, and many of you might have known already, but in particular, David Summers,	谈话,你知道, 和你们许多人可能已经知道, 但特别,大卫·萨默斯,
647	who also what they had described earlier, you know, in a sense, in terms of trying to connect	以及他们之前所描述的, 从某种意义上说,在试图连接
648	between art, architecture, space and time.	在艺术、建筑、空间和时间之间
649	So now we move forward to 2023.	因此,我们现在向前迈进到2023年。
650	So how would you like	那你想怎么样?
651	to explain, you know, and redefine these connected art history that you have seen in the book?	来解释,你知道, 并重新定义这些相关的艺术历史你见过的书?
652	And thank you, by the way, for the bullet points that you actually put in as the last slide.	顺便说一下,谢谢你将子弹点数作为最后一张幻灯片。
653	Yeah, I mean, it's, to me, it's, it's fascinating, because you can think about	是的,我的意思是,它,对我来说,它是, 它的迷人,因为你可以考虑
654	Rigo with this whole idea of Kunstwahlen, and sort of the will of the artist.	和艺术家的意志
655	And what that really	那到底是什么东西?
656	does is it really puts the primary power in the intellect of the artists, that, you know, they're	真正赋予艺术家智慧的力量
657	going to overcome materials, it's the individual genius, it's the, it's an update to Vasari, in	要克服材料, 它是个人的天才, 它是,这是一个更新瓦萨里,在
658	some respects, that we need to really think about this as a real endeavor of personal creativity,	有些方面,我们需要真正地考虑这一点作为个人创造力的真正努力,
659	in some respects, as if it's sort of this genius idea that comes out of nowhere,	在某些方面,仿佛是这种天才的想法突然冒出来,
660	and sort of like overcoming materials, even, right, you know, you impose your will power,	而且有点像克服物质, 即使,对,你知道, 你强制你的意志力,
661	which is such a modern concept that, you know, we can, we can overcome any kind of thing that	这是一个现代的概念,你知道, 我们可以,我们可以克服任何种类的东西,
662	through persistence and determination, and, in this case, creative genius.	通过坚持不懈的决心, 以及,在这种情况下,创造天才。
663	What that does is it discounts, it puts everything within the kind of creative side of a brain,	它的用处是折扣, 它把所有的东西都放在大脑的创造性方面,
664	as opposed to thinking about creativity comes in a variety of different ways.	而不是思考创造力以不同的方式出现。
665	I oftentimes	我经常这样
666	think about the economics of this kind of process, that a really skilled artisan	想想这种过程的经济学一个真正熟练的工匠
667	can see something, can pick up ideas, and then be creative in terms of transforming it to their	能够看到一些东西, 能够收集一些想法, 然后创造性地把它转化为他们
668	own kinds of systems or their own market.	拥有各种系统或自己的市场。
669	I once talked to a contemporary furniture maker	我曾经跟当代家具制造商谈过
670	who summarized his whole approach to making a living through making things.	他总结了整个方法通过制造东西谋生。
671	He says,	他说,
672	I do what people want my way.	我做人们想要我的方式。
673	And it's, you know, there's a very simple kind of message there is	有个很简单的信息
674	that with my skills, I can do a lot of different things.	用我的能力,我可以做很多不同的事情。
675	And if someone comes to me and says,	如果有人来找我说
676	can you do this?	你能做到这一点吗?
677	I'm going to adapt what they want, doing it my own way.	我要适应他们的愿望,用我自己的方式
678	It's not as if they're	又不是他们
679	going to do exactly what that person thought.	照那个人的想法去做
680	You know, it might look very similar, but actually	你知道,它可能看起来非常相似,但实际上
681	structurally, it's going to be different, or it might be a variation thereof.	结构上,它将会是不同的, 也可能是其中的一种变化。
682	And I think that	我觉得
683	that sort of gets at this notion about the will of the artist and talking about the skill of the	那种得到这个概念关于艺术家的意志和谈论技巧
684	artist, in some respects, to be able to adapt to different markets, possibilities, opportunities,	在某些方面,艺术家能够适应不同的市场、可能性和机会,
685	because ultimately, they have to make a living, they have to survive, and the way that one can	因为归根结底, 他们必须谋生, 他们必须生存,
686	survive.	幸存下来
687	And this is where that idea of semper was very much interested in materials and thinking	这正是那个铸币局的想法对材料和思考非常感兴趣的地方
688	about simultaneous kind of action.	关于同时行动
689	And I don't, you know, sometimes things bubble up simultaneously,	我不,你知道, 有时事情同时浮出水面,
690	yes, but oftentimes there's a dialogue, there's a connection that breeds that kind of almost	是的,但经常有对话, 有一种联系产生这种几乎
691	simultaneous kind of quality.	一样的质量。
692	And to me, it is trying to understand this idea of connectedness	对我来说,它正在试图理解这种连接的想法
693	that really allows you to put the agency back into a variety of artisans and artists,	这真的让你把代理回到各种工匠和艺术家,
694	rather than thinking only a certain type qualify for that.	而不是认为只有某种类型才有资格做到这一点。
695	And to think about strategies,	想想战略
696	in some respects, the agency of the maker, rather than the agency of some sort of abstract idea.	在某些方面,制造者的代理,而不是某种抽象思想的代理.
697	I think the phrase of the agency of the makers really sums up, you know, pretty much the book	我想制造商的词句真正概括了,你知道,几乎是这本书
698	itself, because certainly you put the voice back into the maker's mouth, you know, because	因为你把声音放回制造者的嘴里因为
699	otherwise, we tend not to think about it as much as we do, you know, especially in	否则,我们往往不会像我们那样去思考, 你知道,特别是...
700	the so-called traditional art history.	所谓的传统艺术史。
701	With that, you know, I would like to, I noticed a	有了这个,你知道,我想,我注意到
702	number of questions, you know, ongoing, you know, on the side that they asked some specific details,	问题的数量,你知道, 持续,你知道, 在一边他们问了一些具体的细节,
703	which I think I'm going to let them do that on their own, but all the questions that somehow,	我想我会让他们自己做但所有的问题不知何故
704	I'm sorry, main post out there, underlying one particular notion about what exactly is the most	对不起,主帖子在那里, 基于一个特定的概念关于什么才是最
705	typical beginning of us when we look at the object.	典型的开始,当我们看着物体。
706	So all the questions is about clothes,	所以所有的问题都是关于衣服的
707	you know, paper, ceramics, you know, when you have an object, where you begin?	你知道,纸,陶瓷, 你知道,当你有一个物体, 你在哪里开始?
708	你既不是Semperian,你也不是Regalian。
709	So where do we begin?	我们从哪里开始?
710	I actually talk about, I begin on the inside.	我从内心开始说起
711	What I'm, you know, many times,	我是什么,你知道, 很多次,
712	I think we're trained, a lot of art historians are trained, you know, as museum goers in some	我认为我们受过训练很多艺术史学家都受过训练你知道,作为博物馆的走者
713	respects, that you start from the outside and work in.	尊重,你从外面开始工作
714	You start, you know, you do your visual take	你开始,你知道, 你做你的视觉拍摄
715	of something, and then sort of work through a systematic way of looking.	然后通过系统的观察来工作
716	I actually oftentimes	我经常这样
717	find myself with my head on the inside, thinking what's behind the facade, and then working my way	发现自己与我的头在内,思考是什么背后的外表,然后工作我的方式
718	to the outside, and oftentimes sort of then going back in, and so it's often described sort of	外表,而且常常是那种然后返回, 所以它经常被描述那种
719	an in and out process.	进退两难
720	And even as I'm on the inside, I'm thinking, what are some of the questions	我内心深处都在想问题是什么
721	that I want to begin with about this time period, this place, etc.	我想从这个时间段开始这个地方等等
722	So, so	原来如此
723	I look at objects inside out, I guess,	我看着里面的东西,我想,
724	almost like that Congo cushion cover.	就像那个刚果的衬垫盖
725	I'm sewn on with the reverse	我缝在反面
726	and then I'm put back together again.	然后,我又重归于好。
727	So then that moves us from the cover	这样我们就能摆脱封面
728	and now we are making progress.	现在我们正在取得进展。
729	We've going to table contents.	我们准备讨论内容了
730	For the table contents, we noticed that	关于表格内容,我们注意到:
731	Professor Cook has the M themes.	库克教授有M主题.
732	I'm not sure why the M letter is so fascinating here,	我不知道为什么M字母在这里如此迷人,
733	but the M themes here.	但这里的M主题。
734	So basically-	所以基本上...
735	It's a good alliteration.	善能调伏.
736	What can I say?	我能说什么?
737	Like it could be the A theme, you know?	就像它可能是A的主题,你知道吗?
738	So making movement and meaning.	因此,使运动和意义。
739	And in our conversation, you know,	在我们的谈话中,你知道,
740	on the phone conversation we had,	在我们的电话交谈中,
741	we had a very lively understanding	我们有一个非常活泼的理解
742	that that's actually the hidden fourth M theme.	这其实是隐藏的第四个M主题。
743	That M is actually money, monetary, you know, or economics.	M其实是金钱,金钱,你知道的,或者经济学。
744	So because of these are all functional objects, you know,	因为这些都是功能性物体,你知道,
745	somehow it requires demand and supply	不知何故它需要供求
746	in order to make it happen.	以成其义.
747	But that, you know, that you actually led me	但是,你知道, 你实际上领导了我
748	to the hidden fifth M theme that actually I missed	到隐藏的第五M主题,其实我错过了
749	at the beginning when we spoke on the phone	一开始我们打电话的时候
750	and that is Marxism.	这就是马克思主义。
751	So could you elaborate on this?	你能解释一下吗?
752	So the rest of us can actually, you know,	这样我们其他人就可以,你知道,
753	come to that agreement too.	也来达成协议
754	Yeah, I mean, money is sort of there a little bit	是啊,我的意思是, 钱是有点
755	说到其他的M's as it was,
756	in terms of access to materials,	在获取材料方面,
757	certainly in terms of circulation, you know,	当然,在流通方面,你知道,
758	and even the objects themselves are a form of money	即使是物品本身也是金钱的一种形式
759	that the Gujarati textiles or Coromandel Coast textiles,	古吉拉特邦的纺织品或科罗曼德尔海岸的纺织品,
760	the painted cottons from the Coromandel Coast	科罗曼德尔海岸的棉布
761	serve as currency for the spice trade in Indonesia	作为印度尼西亚香料贸易的货币
762	that oftentimes people coming from Europe stop by,	经常有人从欧洲来,
763	Gujarat or Madras pick up cloth	古吉拉特语或马德拉斯语
764	and then take cloth to get nutmeg and ginger	然后拿布拿肉豆蔻和姜
765	and things like that, and then bring that back to Europe.	和类似的事情, 然后带回欧洲。
766	So there are ways in which some of these objects	所以,有些东西有方法
767	facilitate that kind of exchange medium.	方便这种交换媒介。
768	And so thinking about money exchange,	所以想着换钱
769	I think money is such an interesting, you know,	我觉得钱很有趣,你知道的
770	it's a more modern concept because I think that,	这是一个更现代的概念因为我认为,
771	you know, here we are with Vimo	我们跟维莫在一起
772	and various other kinds of ways	以及各种其他方式
773	of electronic transfer of money.	电子转账。
774	You know, there wasn't even a standard currency	你知道,甚至没有标准货币
775	for much of the period we're engaged with.	大部分时间我们接触。
776	But I was interested in sort of when you raised	但我对你长大后感兴趣
777	the question about what's the fourth M in this	关于这里面的第四个M是什么的问题
778	that I was thinking about Marxism just because	我在想马克思主义只是因为
779	in my attempt to try to think about the ways	我试图思考的方式
780	in which production and consumption	生产和消费
781	aren't viewed separately,	没有分开看
782	how do you start to understand	你怎么开始明白
783	the kind of synergetic relationship between production?	生产之间的协同关系?
784	You know, it's chicken and egg,	你知道,这是鸡和鸡蛋,
785	which comes first, supply, demand.	首先是供应和需求
786	And, you know, how to think about both of them together.	而且,你知道,如何思考他们两个在一起。
787	And thinking of Marx, you know,	想想马克思,你知道,
788	who has both an interest in labor	他们都对劳动感兴趣
789	as well as an interest in consumption.	还有对消费的兴趣。
790	You know, he's interested in the alienation of labor,	他对劳动力的疏远很感兴趣
791	under industrial capitalism.	在工业资本主义之下。
792	He's worried about the fetishization of the commodity.	他担心商品的迷恋.
793	But in some respects, what he's dealing with	但在某些方面,他面对的是什么
794	is a kind of early quantified economic history.	是一种早期量化的经济历史。
795	You know, he's trying to generalize.	你知道,他试图概括。
796	And when he talks about commodity culture,	当他谈论商品文化时
797	and this is the way a lot of people from Apodura	阿波都拉的很多人都是这样
798	and others really talk about it,	其他人真的谈论它,
799	it's almost like he's dealing in widgets,	他好像在做部件
800	to use a classic economics term,	使用经典经济学术语,
801	that these are commodities that are sort of abstracted	这些商品有点抽象
802	in some respects, or they'll just say something like	在某些方面,否则他们会说一些
803	cotton or iron, or, you know, sort of this bigger category.	棉花或铁,或者,你知道, 某种更大的类别。
804	And I think what I'm interested in	我觉得我感兴趣的是
805	is trying to drill down a little bit	正在试图钻进一点点
806	and trying to get away from these aggregate kinds	并试图摆脱这些集合种类
807	of elements and trying to think about,	和试图思考,
808	well, there's a whole range of cottons	有一大堆棉条
809	that could be available.	这可以提供。
810	Let's think about what kind of commodities	想想哪一种商品
811	are we talking about, or on the part of labor,	我们谈论的, 或者在劳动方面,
812	thinking about what does alienation mean?	想着异化意味着什么?
813	Is it only your relationship	只是你的关系
814	to the means of production, to tools?	生产工具,工具?
815	What happens when you start thinking about	当你开始思考时会发生什么
816	other forms of engagement with labor	其他形式的劳动
817	as opposed to alienation?	而不是异化?
818	What happens if you start thinking about	如果你开始思考会怎样
819	making as problem solving?	作为解决问题的方法?
820	Not to romanticize in a Mauritian like William Morris,	而不是像威廉·莫里斯那样在毛里求斯浪漫
821	but is there a way in which people	但人有一条路,
822	like the ways of problem solving, making objects,	就像解决问题、制造物品的方法
823	that it's better than sitting at your desk	总比坐在你桌上好
824	on a Zoom screen day after day after day after day?	日复一日地在缩放屏幕上?
825	So that's, I mean, to me, that's trying to say	所以,我的意思是,对我来说, 这是试图说,
826	you have to be careful and evaluative	你一定要小心,评价
827	with specificity without being romantic, I guess.	我猜是没有浪漫的特质
828	You know, that's something that I just realized right now	我刚刚才意识到
829	that I didn't realize when we spoke on Sunday	我们星期天谈话的时候,我不知道
830	that you are actually undermining all those big names.	你正在破坏这些大名
831	I mean, you know, including Simba and Rico,	我的意思是,你知道,包括辛巴和里科,
832	because when we think of what Rico and Simba tried to do,	因为我们想到Rico和Simba想做的事时
833	they were trying to create a macro history,	他们试图创造一个宏观的历史,
834	mapping everything from the upper and create a pattern.	从上方绘制出所有图案,并创建图案.
835	But you propose instead that, no, let's look at each object	但你建议,不,让我们看看每个物体
836	and tell the story from each of them	并说出他们各自的故事,
837	and to see how actually each one would connect.	并且看看每个东西会怎样连接。
838	So this is like, you know,	所以这就像,你知道,
839	almost like you put dots all together	就像你把点都放在一起
840	and create a really global history	创造真正的全球历史
841	from those particular reasons,	从这些特殊原因,
842	which I think is thought to be so very fascinating.	我认为这很吸引人
843	And same thing, you know,	同样的事情,你知道,
844	that the way that you talk about marks,	你们谈论标记的方式,
845	it's not that you rejected marks entirely,	不是说你完全拒绝了标记
846	but you said instead of looking at marks, you know,	但你说,而不是看标记,你知道,
847	as you have a theoretical of governance,	你有一个治理理论,
848	let's not do that and see if this actually	不要这样,看看这是否真的
849	could be applied, you know, to this small functions,	可以用这个小功能
850	this group of people, this particular objects,	这群人,这个特定的物体,
851	and see if that can happen.	看看这能否发生
852	And when we do that,	当我们这样做,
853	what would be the story that we could tell?	我们能讲的故事是什么?
854	With that, however, you know,	不过,你知道,
855	I have one more question on this set of group of questions	我对这组问题还有一个问题
856	before we're gonna move on,	在我们继续前
857	that there are objects and there are stories	有东西和故事
858	that you actually must have had to exclude	其实你必须排除
859	due to, you know, the length of the book	因为,你知道,书的长度
860	or how the story would work together.	或者说故事会怎样合作
861	If you can, what might you would like to bring them in,	如果你可以,你有什么可能想带他们进来,
862	say, you know, Princeton University President	普林斯顿大学校长
863	published a second version.	出版了第二个版本。
864	I hope that they hear this.	我希望他们听到这个。
865	Yeah, I mean, it's, one is always faced with choices.	是啊,我的意思是,这是一个总是面对选择。
866	And, you know, in terms of pulling this together,	并且,你知道, 在调和这一点,
867	I tried as much as possible to use objects that I've seen	我尽量用我见过的东西
868	that I've actually were handled as much as possible.	我被处理得越多越好
869	Cause I think that that's, there's so much about scale	因为我认为那是, 有很多关于规模
870	and the way we interact with these things	以及我们与这些事物互动的方式
871	that is crucial.	这一点至关重要。
872	And then I had to think about things that have photographs,	然后,我不得不思考的东西有照片,
873	you know, inevitably one has to sort of go through	难免要经历一次
874	museum collections because of photography,	博物馆的收藏因为摄影,
875	decent photography, cause you want clear imagery.	正当的摄影,因为你想要清晰的图像。
876	You can't just do sort of a quick shot	你不能只是做那种快速拍摄
877	from my phone in the field all the time,	从我的手机在野外所有的时间,
878	although I've had to resort to that.	虽然我不得不利用这一点。
879	The, so there's, there's selectivity,	因此,有,有选择性,
880	there's surviving for one, and then there's selectivity.	一个是活下来的然后是选择性的
881	But I tried to compensate a little bit for that	但我想补偿一下
882	by drawing from as many different kinds of,	通过从许多不同的种类,
883	you'll notice it, it's, I'm trying to be fair	你会注意到的,这是, 我试图公平
884	to all four media of, that I've decided to focus on	我决定集中关注
885	and they're more universal media.	媒体更普遍
886	And I've tried to cover many different continents	我试图覆盖许多不同的大陆
887	or regions as a way of being suggestive.	或区域作为暗示的方式。
888	And, you know, it really is borne out	而且,你知道,这是真的证明
889	by the number of complimentary copies I had to give out	根据我不得不赠送的补充拷贝的数量
890	because of photo permissions.	因为照片授权。
891	I think it was something like 54,	应该是54号吧
892	which again speaks to the fact that	这再次说明
893	I'm not going to one source only.	我不会只去一个来源。
894	If I had to do it over again,	如果我必须再做一遍,
895	I would really try to work harder	我真的会努力工作
896	in areas like Western Asia, Central Asia, in Africa.	分布于西亚,中亚,非洲等地区.
897	And that's the kind of work that's just,	这就是那种工作只是,
898	or even like the Sindh area of the Hindus Valley	甚至像印度河谷的信德地区
899	in India, Pakistan.	印度、巴基斯坦。
900	These are areas that are still very much	这些领域仍然很多
901	tied to sort of local knowledge	与当地知识挂钩
902	and things are just being worked on now.	事情正在发展之中
903	And so much of what I'm doing	我所做的这么多
904	is really trying to synthesize what has gone on	正在真正尝试合成已经发生的事情
905	in the way of many, a lot of current work.	在很多, 很多当前的工作。
906	This is where the kind of graduates	毕业生就在这里
907	and even undergraduates I've been so fortunate to teach with	即使是本科生我也很幸运能和他们一起教书
908	that it's been, they really sort of keep me honest	他们让我很诚实
909	in terms of trying to stay up to date	试图与时俱进
910	and trying to incorporate some of these others.	并试图将其中一些纳入其中。
911	So that's probably where I would continue	所以,这可能是我可能继续的地方
912	to try to keep that breadth,	试图保持这个宽度,
913	but try to really get even more varied representation,	但尝试真正得到更多样化的代表,
914	particularly think about textiles in Western Asia	特别是西亚的纺织业
915	and metalwork.	还有金属制品
916	Well, I look forward to the second edition of the book.	我期待着这本书的第二版。
917	I saw that the press is here, so take note of that.	我看到媒体来了,所以要注意这一点。
918	Now we've been to the cover, the table of contents,	现在我们看了封面和目录
919	and all the details and examples.	以及所有的细节和例子。
920	Let's go to the back cover.	让我们去后面的封面。
921	I saw that you've got a lot of people endorses,	我看到你有很多人赞成
922	pretty much in a cover almost	几乎在封面上
923	in every subfields of art history.	在艺术史的每一个小领域。
924	Can I ask you that since the book has been published,	我可以问你,既然这本书已经出版,
925	what might have been some of the most fascinating	也许是最迷人的
926	or most appreciated comments that you received	或最受欢迎的评论
927	from your readers?	从你的读者?
928	I'm still wondering whether I'm the tree in the forest	我还在想我是不是森林里的树
929	that fell and no one heard it.	却没人听到
930	You know, it's pretty early on.	你知道,这还很早。
931	So also I've got a sort of anecdotal kind of response.	我也有类似传闻的反应。
932	And I guess one of them, I mean,	我猜其中一个,我的意思是,
933	the people who I went to CAA,	我去过CAA的人
934	College Art Association in New York,	纽约学院艺术协会,
935	and caught up with a bunch of friends,	和一群朋友,
936	but it was curious how it was primarily younger scholars	但很好奇的是以年轻学者为主
937	who were really responding positively,	他们真的反应积极,
938	who came up and said how excited they were	谁上来说他们有多兴奋
939	and how they envisioned teaching with it,	他们曾用它去教人,
940	how it was so clear and so inspiring.	如此清晰和鼓舞人心
941	And to me that's important.	这对我很重要
942	And one person whose work I really admire,	一个我非常欣赏的人
943	who's mid-career just saying,	谁是中职业生涯只是说,
944	I could see using this for a number of different courses,	我可以看到这个用在一些不同的课程,
945	which was exactly my intent was to think of this,	这正是我想想到的
946	not really as a textbook as saying,	并不是说,
947	oh, this is the way you have to teach,	哦,这是你必须教的方法,
948	but actually saying this could be used in a methods course,	但实际上说这可以用在一种方法上,
949	it could be used in a different kind of introductory course,	可以在不同的入门课程中使用,
950	or you could just do something on material culture.	或者你可以对物质文化做点什么
951	I mean, it could be used in a variety	我的意思是,它可以用来各种各样的
952	and deployed in a variety of different ways.	以不同的方式部署
953	And so I've got an inkling of that,	所以我得到了一个墨水,
954	but I won't know until,	但我不会知道,直到,
955	and then I've had some students who read it	然后,我有一些学生谁读它
956	for Orals in the fall,	秋天的口语
957	they seem to get something out of it.	他们似乎得到了一些东西出来。
958	But I don't know whether it's just,	但我不知道这是否只是,
959	what I'm always interested in is people,	我一直对人感兴趣
960	those who necessarily have not taught for me	那些不为我教书的人
961	or done Orals with me within the Yale bubble,	或者在耶鲁泡泡里跟我做口述
962	but actually people from totally outside.	其实是外面的人
963	And that's just starting to happen now.	这才刚刚开始
964	Thank you very much.	谢谢
965	And I think this is a good start for the open Q&A, Carol.	我觉得这是开业的好开始卡罗尔
966	There is quite a list of questions	有很多问题
967	and some of them we already addressed in this conversation.	我们在这次谈话中已经谈到其中的一些问题。
968	So I'll let you pick which one	所以我让你选哪一个
969	that you would like to zoom in.	你将想放大。
970	But thank you very much.	但是非常感谢
971	And this is very enjoyable.	这是非常愉快的。
972	Thank you.	谢谢
973	Thanks, Vimalan.	谢谢,维玛兰
974	Thank you so much, Vimalan and Ned	非常感谢,维玛兰和奈德
975	for adding such richness to the topic	增加专题的丰富性
976	and the discourse in art history.	和艺术史上的论述。
977	Before I go into Q&A,	在我进入QQA之前
978	I want to very quickly also thank	我想很快的感谢大家
979	my very important colleague, Devin Lau,	我的重要同事刘德文
980	for inviting both Ned and Vimalan.	为了邀请奈德和维玛兰
981	I know probably Lingxi Li	我可能认识李玲茜
982	from the Princeton University Press Office is here.	普林斯顿大学新闻办公室的记者来了
983	He's very instrumental in organizing this	他对组织这个很有帮助
984	and also the teams of Yale Center of Beijing and PUP.	以及北京耶鲁中心和PUP的团队.
985	就像Vimalan暗示的那样
986	about the possible second edition,	关于可能的第二版,
987	or, you know, and, you know, Ned talked about, you know,	或者,你知道,和,你知道, 内德谈到,你知道,
988	wondering what the response would be	不知道会有什么反应
989	for people outside of the Yale bubble to read this.	让耶鲁泡泡以外的人读这个
990	I know the Princeton University Press staff	我认识普林斯顿大学出版社的工作人员
991	had put in some links for discounted purchase	已经设置了一些链接用于折扣购买
992	within China for this book.	为这本书在中国国内
993	So I'd be really curious about the responses.	所以我会非常好奇这些反应。

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